From a_lamothe at operamail.com Sat Feb 1 01:55:12 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fear of Forking? Message-ID: <20030201075512.18185.qmail@operamail.com> George, I think his essay is basically right on the mark. There may still be problems in store for open-source, check out this interesting discussion thread: http://zgp.org/linux-elitists/001501c2bbf4$e8218380$aaf4a8c0@IBMA30p.html - Adrien ----- Original Message ----- From: George Woolley Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:20:38 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: [oak perl] Fear of Forking? > Anyone read Rick Moen's "Fear of Forking" essay? > I like the other title too: "Why Linux Won't Fork". > > I gather the essay has been recently updated, > but I'd somehow missed the earlier version(s). > Before I dove into it, I actually wondered what his point was > about forking in Linux. > But it's a pun and a (gag) fun one too. > > Anyway I'd be interested in comments on his essay. > Personally I found it very engaging. > > Oh, yeah, it's at: > http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/essays/forking.html > Any comments on Rick Moen's essay? > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From george at metaart.org Sat Feb 1 02:29:49 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fear of Forking? In-Reply-To: <20030201075512.18185.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20030201075512.18185.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <200302010029.49573.george@metaart.org> Adrien, Thanks for the feedback and the link. Hm. SCO. -- George Anyone else read the essay? On Friday 31 January 2003 11:55 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > George, > > I think his essay is basically right on the mark. > There may still be problems in store for open-source, > check out this interesting discussion thread: > http://zgp.org/linux-elitists/001501c2bbf4$e8218380$aaf4a8c0@IBMA30p.html > > - Adrien > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Woolley > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:20:38 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: [oak perl] Fear of Forking? > > > Anyone read Rick Moen's "Fear of Forking" essay? > > I like the other title too: "Why Linux Won't Fork". > > > > I gather the essay has been recently updated, > > but I'd somehow missed the earlier version(s). > > Before I dove into it, I actually wondered what his point was > > about forking in Linux. > > But it's a pun and a (gag) fun one too. > > > > Anyway I'd be interested in comments on his essay. > > Personally I found it very engaging. > > > > Oh, yeah, it's at: > > http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/essays/forking.html > > Any comments on Rick Moen's essay? > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Sat Feb 1 18:51:29 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? In-Reply-To: <20030201035439.15105.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20030201035439.15105.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <200302011651.29685.george@metaart.org> Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, the lines are kind of narrow. I've widened them a tad based on your feedback. I wasn't sure how much to widen them, and so I did some research on the web. I followed what I found there. It does seem better. So anyone do any blogging? On Friday 31 January 2003 7:54 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > The review is nicely written. The one thing I didn't care > for is how the text is contained within a rather narrow > column on the right side of the web page, but I was still > able to read it easily. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Woolley > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:48:34 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? > > ... > > I did a review of "Essential Blogging". See: > > http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/blogging.html > > ... From george at metaart.org Sat Feb 1 19:16:06 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] State of the pm: February 1, 2003 Message-ID: <200302011716.06919.george@metaart.org> State of the pm ============ Affiliations ---------------- O'Reilly User Group Program got 6 books/products: as gift, to 6 different people books reviewed: 2 banner opportunities taken: 2 Perl Mongers Listings --------- Website References: Ecovillage (on calendar) Google Directory Monterey.pm (link to our related groups list) Perl Mongers North American List San Francisco.pm (on related groups list) Earlier we requested listings with: Berkeley.pm Linux Mafia SiliconValley.pm The following don't have listings for related groups: Sonoma.pm Search Engine Listings: Try +Oakland +"Perl Mongers". I tried (2003-02-01) on the 6 top search engines per my most recent evaluation (i.e. on Google, AOL Search, Excite, Teoma and Yahoo, Alta Vista): All 6 had either our site or the PM link to it in one of the first 2 positions. Mailing Lists -------------- Oakland.pm mailing list subscribers: 17 (as of 2003-01-30) Oakland.pm messages: November 106 December 99 January 54 PBML mailing list subscribers: 9 (as of 2003-01-30) PBML messages: (all messages lost, I believe) December 39 (many messages lost, I believe) January 15 Meetings ----------- monthly meeting attendees: November 3 December 9 January 8 regular meeting time: 2nd Tuesday at 7:30pm regular meeting place: not yet determined. places we've tried: #1 Coffee Mill (not open) #2 George Woolley's (too small) #3 Village Restaurant (workable)** #4 Arden Schaeffer's (not yet tried)** places considered and rejected: 5 (that I know of) under consideration: see ** status: still looking February Meeting Plans: talk by: Dan Meriwether invitations out for speakers: 2 Website ---------- reorganized a fair amount recently. The Home Page includes sections on: what the Club is at all the next meeting * acknowledgements * contact info There are separate pages on: * related groups * members (went from 2 to 8 profiles since last meeting) There are separate directories for: * directions * mailinglists * meetings * reviews (now have 2 book reviews, had 0 before) and also for our O'Reilly User Group affiliation (including newsletters) Finally ------- Comments? Corrections? -- George From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 2 00:47:20 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? Message-ID: <200302012247.20648.george@metaart.org> Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, I have only a simple modem connection. Woe is me. :( But I have the possibility of a contract working from home (doing Perl --yes!), for which contract I will need a high speed connection for downloads. :) Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. So I seek council from those wiser than I. Is it better to go cable or DSL? Who do I get whichever from? What else should I be concerned about? I know not what information is helpful in giving me council. But perhaps the following is relevant: * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) * I have two PCs on which I run Linux plus an ancient MAC Performa. The one who may contract me says he will supply me with a PC which will run some version of that other OS. Thanks for any suggestions. -- George From cajun at cajuninc.com Sun Feb 2 01:30:54 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? In-Reply-To: <200302012247.20648.george@metaart.org> References: <200302012247.20648.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200302012330.54362.cajun@cajuninc.com> I believe the answer is DSL. With DSL, you have the POSSIBILITY of getting a static IP. With cable, you do not. I would think where you live, you could get either, but I could easily be wrong. I've had SBC (now SBC/Yahoo) for about 2 years now. I have 5 static IPs. I've had ZERO trouble and only once has it been down. That was this past week when they were working on something on the pole outside. With cable, you're sharing the connection with your neighbors. So the speed you get today will almost certainly be reduced in the future. I have a friend on cable. I would estimate his speed is maybe 1/3 of what it was when he had it installed maybe 5 years ago. M On Saturday 01 February 2003 22:47, George Woolley wrote: > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > I have only a simple modem connection. > Woe is me. :( > > But I have the possibility of a contract > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > for which contract I will need > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > Who do I get whichever from? > What else should I be concerned about? > > I know not what information is helpful > in giving me council. > But perhaps the following is relevant: > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > The one who may contract me > says he will supply me with a PC > which will run some version of that other OS. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > -- George > > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- Computer programmers do it byte by byte. 23:25:01 up 15 days, 6:23, 5 users, load average: 0.76, 1.20, 1.26 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 2 09:29:50 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:27 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? In-Reply-To: <200302012330.54362.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <200302012247.20648.george@metaart.org> <200302012330.54362.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200302020729.50378.george@metaart.org> Thank you. Thank you. Sounds good. I guess I'll have 4 (maybe 5) machines that I'd like to connect to it. Is that easily dealt with? Roughly how much does it cost? G On Saturday 01 February 2003 11:30 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > I believe the answer is DSL. With DSL, you have the POSSIBILITY of getting > a static IP. With cable, you do not. > > I would think where you live, you could get either, but I could easily be > wrong. > > I've had SBC (now SBC/Yahoo) for about 2 years now. I have 5 static IPs. > I've had ZERO trouble and only once has it been down. That was this past > week when they were working on something on the pole outside. > > With cable, you're sharing the connection with your neighbors. So the speed > you get today will almost certainly be reduced in the future. I have a > friend on cable. I would estimate his speed is maybe 1/3 of what it was > when he had it installed maybe 5 years ago. > > M > > On Saturday 01 February 2003 22:47, George Woolley wrote: > > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > > I have only a simple modem connection. > > Woe is me. :( > > > > But I have the possibility of a contract > > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > > for which contract I will need > > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > > Who do I get whichever from? > > What else should I be concerned about? > > > > I know not what information is helpful > > in giving me council. > > But perhaps the following is relevant: > > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > > The one who may contract me > > says he will supply me with a PC > > which will run some version of that other OS. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > -- George > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From cajun at cajuninc.com Sun Feb 2 14:37:12 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? In-Reply-To: <200302020729.50378.george@metaart.org> References: <200302012247.20648.george@metaart.org> <200302012330.54362.cajun@cajuninc.com> <200302020729.50378.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200302021237.12073.cajun@cajuninc.com> Some of the elusive Jennifer's questions apply here: http://rattler.cajuninc.com/pipermail/pbml/2003-January/000048.html Mine costs about $170/mo, but I have a fairly high speed connection compared to the 'norm'. I'd tell you the speed, but I don't recall exactly. I believe the 'basic' starts out at around $60, but don't quote me on that. You can prolly find out lots more information here: http://sbc.yahoo.com/ M On Sunday 02 February 2003 07:29, George Woolley wrote: > Thank you. Thank you. > Sounds good. > > I guess I'll have 4 (maybe 5) machines that I'd like to connect to it. > Is that easily dealt with? > > Roughly how much does it cost? > G > > On Saturday 01 February 2003 11:30 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > > I believe the answer is DSL. With DSL, you have the POSSIBILITY of > > getting a static IP. With cable, you do not. > > > > I would think where you live, you could get either, but I could easily be > > wrong. > > > > I've had SBC (now SBC/Yahoo) for about 2 years now. I have 5 static IPs. > > I've had ZERO trouble and only once has it been down. That was this past > > week when they were working on something on the pole outside. > > > > With cable, you're sharing the connection with your neighbors. So the > > speed you get today will almost certainly be reduced in the future. I > > have a friend on cable. I would estimate his speed is maybe 1/3 of what > > it was when he had it installed maybe 5 years ago. > > > > M > > > > On Saturday 01 February 2003 22:47, George Woolley wrote: > > > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > > > I have only a simple modem connection. > > > Woe is me. :( > > > > > > But I have the possibility of a contract > > > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > > > for which contract I will need > > > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > > > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > > > > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > > > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > > > Who do I get whichever from? > > > What else should I be concerned about? > > > > > > I know not what information is helpful > > > in giving me council. > > > But perhaps the following is relevant: > > > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > > > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > > > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > > > The one who may contract me > > > says he will supply me with a PC > > > which will run some version of that other OS. > > > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > -- George > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oakland mailing list > > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- E=Mc^5...nahhh...E=Mc^4...nahh...E=Mc^3...ah, the hell with it. 12:30:01 up 15 days, 19:28, 5 users, load average: 1.58, 1.43, 1.33 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 2 17:41:22 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List Message-ID: <200302021541.22928.george@metaart.org> I'm thinking it would be kool (perhaps even useful) to have a FAQ for PBML. The following is a draft for such a FAQ. Once I get some feedback and incorporate it, I could webify the results and put the FAQ on our site. Mike, please make comments and corrections. Everyone, what do you think? PBML FAQ ========= 1) What's PBML stand for? 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? 3) Who is PBML for? 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? 5) What are Perl basics? 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? 8) When did PBML get started? 9) Who hosts PBML? 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? ------------------------- 1) What's PBML stand for? Perl Basics Mailing List 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? PBML is a place for asking and answering questions about Perl basics with the intent of mastering them, so that we may write more efficient, more understandable and more reliable Perl programs. It's intended to be a comfortable place for beginners to ask their Perl questions. 3) Who is PBML for? PBML is for beginners, especially. PBML is also for anyone who wants to more deeply understand basics. One of the best ways to deepen one's understanding of basics is to see the problems others have and help them get beyond those problems. No matter how advanced you are, there is always more to grasp concerning Perl basics. 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? It's especially for Oakland.pm members. However, some subscribers to PBML are not Oakland.pm subscribers. And that's OK. So far we just haven't told other groups about PBML. 5) What are Perl basics? We don't have a concensus on this. But it certainly includes the basics of hashes and regular expressions which confuse a lot of people. Whatever you think Perl basics are, keep in mind that the list is especially for beginners and that there are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? No! No! No Perl questions are too easy for PBML. There are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. There are no bad Perl questions on PBML. 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? Asking is always fine. But you may not get an answer. You may instead be directed to somewhere where the responder thinks you'll get a better answer. E.g. to Perl Monks . 8) When did PBML get started? On November 23, Mike Lewis proposed such a list. On November 25, George Woolley described PBML to the group. On November 26, Mike Lewis set up PBML, and Mike, Belden Lyman & George began experimenting with it and testing it. On December 2, David Alban did the first post to the list that was not by Mike, Belden or George. 9) Who hosts PBML? Mike Lewis set it up on his equipment. And he hosts it. 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? Subscribe on the PBML Info List page. It should be easy to do. 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? See the PBML Archive. Last Updated: 2003-02-02 From cajun at cajuninc.com Sun Feb 2 17:51:33 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List In-Reply-To: <200302021541.22928.george@metaart.org> References: <200302021541.22928.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200302021551.33706.cajun@cajuninc.com> The only thing I see you left out was the subject of 'off topic' questions such as Jennifers. As far as I'm concerned, while PBML is setup for the discussion of Perl, it isn't limited to that topic. All of us have questions about different things from time to time. What better place to ask than a group of people you are familiar with. Of course there are some subjects that could possibly arise that I reserve the right to ask the poster to post the question elsewhere as it could possibly intefere with the peace and harmony of the list. On Sunday 02 February 2003 15:41, George Woolley wrote: > I'm thinking it would be kool (perhaps even useful) > to have a FAQ for PBML. > The following is a draft for such a FAQ. > Once I get some feedback and incorporate it, > I could webify the results and put the FAQ on our site. > > Mike, please make comments and corrections. > Everyone, what do you think? > > PBML FAQ > ========= > 1) What's PBML stand for? > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > 3) Who is PBML for? > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > 5) What are Perl basics? > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > 8) When did PBML get started? > 9) Who hosts PBML? > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > ------------------------- > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > Perl Basics Mailing List > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > PBML is a place for asking and answering questions > about Perl basics with the intent of mastering them, > so that we may write > more efficient, more understandable and more reliable Perl programs. > > It's intended to be a comfortable place for beginners > to ask their Perl questions. > > 3) Who is PBML for? > PBML is for beginners, especially. > PBML is also for anyone who wants to more deeply understand basics. > One of the best ways to deepen one's understanding of basics is > to see the problems others have and help them get beyond > those problems. > No matter how advanced you are, there is always more to grasp > concerning Perl basics. > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > It's especially for Oakland.pm members. > > However, some subscribers to PBML > are not Oakland.pm subscribers. > And that's OK. > So far we just haven't told other groups > about PBML. > > 5) What are Perl basics? > We don't have a concensus on this. > But it certainly includes > the basics of hashes and regular expressions > which confuse a lot of people. > > Whatever you think Perl basics are, > keep in mind that the list is especially for beginners > and that there are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > No! No! > No Perl questions are too easy for PBML. > There are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > There are no bad Perl questions on PBML. > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > Asking is always fine. > But you may not get an answer. > You may instead be directed to somewhere where the responder > thinks you'll get a better answer. > E.g. to Perl Monks . > > 8) When did PBML get started? > On November 23, Mike Lewis proposed such a list. > On November 25, George Woolley described PBML to the group. > On November 26, Mike Lewis set up PBML, > and Mike, Belden Lyman & George began experimenting with it > and testing it. > On December 2, David Alban did the first post to the list > that was not by Mike, Belden or George. > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > Mike Lewis set it up on his equipment. > And he hosts it. > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > Subscribe on the PBML Info List page. > > It should be easy to do. > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > See the PBML Archive. > > > Last Updated: 2003-02-02 > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- To iterate is human; to recurse, divine. - Robert Heller 15:45:01 up 15 days, 22:44, 5 users, load average: 1.49, 1.41, 1.40 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 2 18:58:52 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List In-Reply-To: <200302021551.33706.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <200302021541.22928.george@metaart.org> <200302021551.33706.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200302021658.52532.george@metaart.org> Mike, Thanks for the feedback. Suppose I add: /==================================\ 12) Are non-Perl questions OK on PBML? Yes. Even though PBML is primarily intended for discussion of Perl, it's not limited to that. It could be (and has been) a very good place for topics other than Perl. It's possible that the host may ask someone to take a non-Perl discussion elsewhere someday, if it is conflicting with the intent of PBML. So far, this has not happened. \=================================/ Actually, I might insert this after 7) and renumber. Let me know if you have comments or corrections concerning this. G. Anyone else have any thought on this? -- G. On Sunday 02 February 2003 3:51 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > The only thing I see you left out was the subject of 'off topic' questions > such as Jennifers. As far as I'm concerned, while PBML is setup for the > discussion of Perl, it isn't limited to that topic. All of us have > questions about different things from time to time. What better place to > ask than a group of people you are familiar with. Of course there are some > subjects that could possibly arise that I reserve the right to ask the > poster to post the question elsewhere as it could possibly intefere with > the peace and harmony of the list. > > On Sunday 02 February 2003 15:41, George Woolley wrote: > > I'm thinking it would be kool (perhaps even useful) > > to have a FAQ for PBML. > > The following is a draft for such a FAQ. > > Once I get some feedback and incorporate it, > > I could webify the results and put the FAQ on our site. > > > > Mike, please make comments and corrections. > > Everyone, what do you think? > > > > PBML FAQ > > ========= > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > > > ------------------------- > > > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > Perl Basics Mailing List > > > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > PBML is a place for asking and answering questions > > about Perl basics with the intent of mastering them, > > so that we may write > > more efficient, more understandable and more reliable Perl programs. > > > > It's intended to be a comfortable place for beginners > > to ask their Perl questions. > > > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > PBML is for beginners, especially. > > PBML is also for anyone who wants to more deeply understand basics. > > One of the best ways to deepen one's understanding of basics is > > to see the problems others have and help them get beyond > > those problems. > > No matter how advanced you are, there is always more to grasp > > concerning Perl basics. > > > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > It's especially for Oakland.pm members. > > > > However, some subscribers to PBML > > are not Oakland.pm subscribers. > > And that's OK. > > So far we just haven't told other groups > > about PBML. > > > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > We don't have a concensus on this. > > But it certainly includes > > the basics of hashes and regular expressions > > which confuse a lot of people. > > > > Whatever you think Perl basics are, > > keep in mind that the list is especially for beginners > > and that there are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > No! No! > > No Perl questions are too easy for PBML. > > There are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > There are no bad Perl questions on PBML. > > > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > Asking is always fine. > > But you may not get an answer. > > You may instead be directed to somewhere where the responder > > thinks you'll get a better answer. > > E.g. to Perl Monks . > > > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > On November 23, Mike Lewis proposed such a list. > > On November 25, George Woolley described PBML to the group. > > On November 26, Mike Lewis set up PBML, > > and Mike, Belden Lyman & George began experimenting with it > > and testing it. > > On December 2, David Alban did the first post to the list > > that was not by Mike, Belden or George. > > > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > Mike Lewis set it up on his equipment. > > And he hosts it. > > > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > Subscribe on the PBML Info List page. > > > > It should be easy to do. > > > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > See the PBML Archive. > > > > > > Last Updated: 2003-02-02 > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 2 19:43:17 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302021743.17782.george@metaart.org> What's up with the East Bay Beer Sig? From cajun at cajuninc.com Sun Feb 2 20:04:31 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List In-Reply-To: <200302021658.52532.george@metaart.org> References: <200302021541.22928.george@metaart.org> <200302021551.33706.cajun@cajuninc.com> <200302021658.52532.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200302021804.31389.cajun@cajuninc.com> Sounds fine. On Sunday 02 February 2003 16:58, George Woolley wrote: > Mike, Thanks for the feedback. > > Suppose I add: > > /==================================\ > 12) Are non-Perl questions OK on PBML? > Yes. > Even though PBML is primarily intended for discussion of Perl, > it's not limited to that. > > It could be (and has been) a very good place for topics other than Perl. > > It's possible that the host may ask someone to take > a non-Perl discussion elsewhere someday, > if it is conflicting with the intent of PBML. > So far, this has not happened. > \=================================/ > > Actually, I might insert this after 7) and renumber. > > Let me know if you have comments or corrections concerning this. > G. > > Anyone else have any thought on this? -- G. > > On Sunday 02 February 2003 3:51 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > > The only thing I see you left out was the subject of 'off topic' > > questions such as Jennifers. As far as I'm concerned, while PBML is setup > > for the discussion of Perl, it isn't limited to that topic. All of us > > have questions about different things from time to time. What better > > place to ask than a group of people you are familiar with. Of course > > there are some subjects that could possibly arise that I reserve the > > right to ask the poster to post the question elsewhere as it could > > possibly intefere with the peace and harmony of the list. > > > > On Sunday 02 February 2003 15:41, George Woolley wrote: > > > I'm thinking it would be kool (perhaps even useful) > > > to have a FAQ for PBML. > > > The following is a draft for such a FAQ. > > > Once I get some feedback and incorporate it, > > > I could webify the results and put the FAQ on our site. > > > > > > Mike, please make comments and corrections. > > > Everyone, what do you think? > > > > > > PBML FAQ > > > ========= > > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > > Perl Basics Mailing List > > > > > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > > PBML is a place for asking and answering questions > > > about Perl basics with the intent of mastering them, > > > so that we may write > > > more efficient, more understandable and more reliable Perl programs. > > > > > > It's intended to be a comfortable place for beginners > > > to ask their Perl questions. > > > > > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > > PBML is for beginners, especially. > > > PBML is also for anyone who wants to more deeply understand basics. > > > One of the best ways to deepen one's understanding of basics is > > > to see the problems others have and help them get beyond > > > those problems. > > > No matter how advanced you are, there is always more to grasp > > > concerning Perl basics. > > > > > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > > It's especially for Oakland.pm members. > > > > > > However, some subscribers to PBML > > > are not Oakland.pm subscribers. > > > And that's OK. > > > So far we just haven't told other groups > > > about PBML. > > > > > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > > We don't have a concensus on this. > > > But it certainly includes > > > the basics of hashes and regular expressions > > > which confuse a lot of people. > > > > > > Whatever you think Perl basics are, > > > keep in mind that the list is especially for beginners > > > and that there are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > > > > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > > No! No! > > > No Perl questions are too easy for PBML. > > > There are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > > There are no bad Perl questions on PBML. > > > > > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > > Asking is always fine. > > > But you may not get an answer. > > > You may instead be directed to somewhere where the responder > > > thinks you'll get a better answer. > > > E.g. to Perl Monks . > > > > > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > > On November 23, Mike Lewis proposed such a list. > > > On November 25, George Woolley described PBML to the group. > > > On November 26, Mike Lewis set up PBML, > > > and Mike, Belden Lyman & George began experimenting with it > > > and testing it. > > > On December 2, David Alban did the first post to the list > > > that was not by Mike, Belden or George. > > > > > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > > Mike Lewis set it up on his equipment. > > > And he hosts it. > > > > > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > > Subscribe on the PBML Info List page. > > > > > > It should be easy to do. > > > > > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > > See the PBML Archive. > > > > > > > > > Last Updated: 2003-02-02 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oakland mailing list > > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- Stock item: We shipped it once before, and we can do it again, probably. 18:00:00 up 16 days, 59 min, 5 users, load average: 1.97, 1.55, 1.43 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From cajun at cajuninc.com Sun Feb 2 20:05:17 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <200302021743.17782.george@metaart.org> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302021743.17782.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200302021805.17764.cajun@cajuninc.com> We patiently await directions from our leader ! On Sunday 02 February 2003 17:43, George Woolley wrote: > What's up with the East Bay Beer Sig? > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- Stock item: We shipped it once before, and we can do it again, probably. 18:00:00 up 16 days, 59 min, 5 users, load average: 1.97, 1.55, 1.43 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From blyman at iii.com Sun Feb 2 20:56:10 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? Message-ID: <200302030256.SAA31307@molly.iii.com> Heck, I'd be interested. Perhaps we should post book reviews directly to the list, in addition to putting them on the website? (London.pm do this - it seems like a good way of saying thanks to the publisher for a free book.) $0.02 Belden ************************** Original Message ************************* From: George Woolley Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:48:34 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? Reply-To: oakland@mail.pm.org Anyone interested in blogging? Jennifer, if my memory serves me well. Anyone else? I did a review of "Essential Blogging". See: http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/blogging.html I got Blosxom running. It's powered by a single short Perl program. Boy was that easy. I dig minimalism. Any thoughts on Blosxom? Any thoughts on the review? _______________________________________________ Oakland mailing list Oakland@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 2 22:40:24 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List In-Reply-To: <200302021804.31389.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <200302021541.22928.george@metaart.org> <200302021658.52532.george@metaart.org> <200302021804.31389.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200302022040.24082.george@metaart.org> Great! The PBML FAQ is on our site at: http://oakland.pm.org/mailinglists/pbml_faq.html If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. On Sunday 02 February 2003 6:04 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > Sounds fine. > > On Sunday 02 February 2003 16:58, George Woolley wrote: > > Mike, Thanks for the feedback. > > > > Suppose I add: > > > > /==================================\ > > 12) Are non-Perl questions OK on PBML? > > Yes. > > Even though PBML is primarily intended for discussion of Perl, > > it's not limited to that. > > > > It could be (and has been) a very good place for topics other than Perl. > > > > It's possible that the host may ask someone to take > > a non-Perl discussion elsewhere someday, > > if it is conflicting with the intent of PBML. > > So far, this has not happened. > > \=================================/ > > > > Actually, I might insert this after 7) and renumber. > > > > Let me know if you have comments or corrections concerning this. > > G. > > > > Anyone else have any thought on this? -- G. > > > > On Sunday 02 February 2003 3:51 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > > > The only thing I see you left out was the subject of 'off topic' > > > questions such as Jennifers. As far as I'm concerned, while PBML is > > > setup for the discussion of Perl, it isn't limited to that topic. All > > > of us have questions about different things from time to time. What > > > better place to ask than a group of people you are familiar with. Of > > > course there are some subjects that could possibly arise that I reserve > > > the right to ask the poster to post the question elsewhere as it could > > > possibly intefere with the peace and harmony of the list. > > > > > > On Sunday 02 February 2003 15:41, George Woolley wrote: > > > > I'm thinking it would be kool (perhaps even useful) > > > > to have a FAQ for PBML. > > > > The following is a draft for such a FAQ. > > > > Once I get some feedback and incorporate it, > > > > I could webify the results and put the FAQ on our site. > > > > > > > > Mike, please make comments and corrections. > > > > Everyone, what do you think? > > > > > > > > PBML FAQ > > > > ========= > > > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > > > Perl Basics Mailing List > > > > > > > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > > > PBML is a place for asking and answering questions > > > > about Perl basics with the intent of mastering them, > > > > so that we may write > > > > more efficient, more understandable and more reliable Perl programs. > > > > > > > > It's intended to be a comfortable place for beginners > > > > to ask their Perl questions. > > > > > > > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > > > PBML is for beginners, especially. > > > > PBML is also for anyone who wants to more deeply understand basics. > > > > One of the best ways to deepen one's understanding of basics is > > > > to see the problems others have and help them get beyond > > > > those problems. > > > > No matter how advanced you are, there is always more to grasp > > > > concerning Perl basics. > > > > > > > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > > > It's especially for Oakland.pm members. > > > > > > > > However, some subscribers to PBML > > > > are not Oakland.pm subscribers. > > > > And that's OK. > > > > So far we just haven't told other groups > > > > about PBML. > > > > > > > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > > > We don't have a concensus on this. > > > > But it certainly includes > > > > the basics of hashes and regular expressions > > > > which confuse a lot of people. > > > > > > > > Whatever you think Perl basics are, > > > > keep in mind that the list is especially for beginners > > > > and that there are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > > > > > > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > > > No! No! > > > > No Perl questions are too easy for PBML. > > > > There are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > > > There are no bad Perl questions on PBML. > > > > > > > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > > > Asking is always fine. > > > > But you may not get an answer. > > > > You may instead be directed to somewhere where the responder > > > > thinks you'll get a better answer. > > > > E.g. to Perl Monks . > > > > > > > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > > > On November 23, Mike Lewis proposed such a list. > > > > On November 25, George Woolley described PBML to the group. > > > > On November 26, Mike Lewis set up PBML, > > > > and Mike, Belden Lyman & George began experimenting with it > > > > and testing it. > > > > On December 2, David Alban did the first post to the list > > > > that was not by Mike, Belden or George. > > > > > > > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > > > Mike Lewis set it up on his equipment. > > > > And he hosts it. > > > > > > > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > > > Subscribe on the PBML Info List page. > > > > > > > > It should be easy to do. > > > > > > > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > > > See the PBML Archive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last Updated: 2003-02-02 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Oakland mailing list > > > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 2 22:42:57 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <200302021805.17764.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302021743.17782.george@metaart.org> <200302021805.17764.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> David A., what are your directions? On Sunday 02 February 2003 6:05 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > We patiently await directions from our leader ! > > On Sunday 02 February 2003 17:43, George Woolley wrote: > > What's up with the East Bay Beer Sig? From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 3 01:59:32 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? In-Reply-To: <200302030256.SAA31307@molly.iii.com> References: <200302030256.SAA31307@molly.iii.com> Message-ID: <200302022359.32933.george@metaart.org> Re Blogging: I'm not clear what you're saying. You'd be interested in blogging if what? Re Posting Reviews: Hm, posting book reviews to the mailing list -- I'll ponder that. My initial thinking is: let the author of the review do whatever he or she wants. As a subscriber what I'd generally prefer is a link to the review. But if the author of the review feels strongly that the review should be posted to the list, that's kool too. There are many ways to say thank you for a free book. For example, I got the Blogging book for putting a banner on my personal site. I then, (a) wrote a review of it which I put on our site, (b) announced that I had done so on the mailing list, including a link to the review and (c) wrote a very very short review of the book that I posted on the O'Reilly site which review linked back to the longer review on our site (oh, it was the first review for the book on the O'Reilly site). If you are a subscriber to this list (which likely you are), I'd be very interested in your thoughts on this as a subscriber. Though keep in mind, you are not the only ones to consider in this matter. As far as inputs from authors of reviews are concerned, this discussion will become more interesting when our group has multiple authors of reviews. Well, that's my $0.02 or wooden nickle or whatever. -- George On Sunday 02 February 2003 6:56 pm, Belden Lyman wrote: > Heck, I'd be interested. Perhaps we should post book reviews > directly to the list, in addition to putting them on the website? > (London.pm do this - it seems like a good way of saying thanks to > the publisher for a free book.) > > $0.02 > > Belden > > ************************** Original Message ************************* > > From: George Woolley > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:48:34 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? > Reply-To: oakland@mail.pm.org > > Anyone interested in blogging? > Jennifer, if my memory serves me well. > Anyone else? > > I did a review of "Essential Blogging". See: > http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/blogging.html > I got Blosxom running. > It's powered by a single short Perl program. > Boy was that easy. > I dig minimalism. > > Any thoughts on Blosxom? > Any thoughts on the review? > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From dave at toppledwagon.com Sun Feb 2 20:29:11 2003 From: dave at toppledwagon.com (David B. Peterson) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? Message-ID: DSL from here: (NAYYY) VERY techie friendly. Will give you a static IP address, specifically ALLOWS servers and sharing. -Dave From cajun at cajuninc.com Mon Feb 3 02:29:11 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200302030029.11586.cajun@cajuninc.com> I could easily be wrong about this, but isn't speakeasy a known SPAM domain ? Perhaps I'm thinking of a similar domain ? M On Sunday 02 February 2003 18:29, David B. Peterson wrote: > DSL from here: (NAYYY) > > VERY techie friendly. Will give you a static IP address, > specifically ALLOWS servers and sharing. > > -Dave > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- IBM: Insensitivity Begets Mediocrity 00:25:00 up 16 days, 7:24, 5 users, load average: 1.62, 1.47, 1.26 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From blyman at iii.com Mon Feb 3 11:42:48 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? References: <200302030256.SAA31307@molly.iii.com> <200302022359.32933.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E3EAA18.50209@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > Re Blogging: > I'm not clear what you're saying. > You'd be interested in blogging if what? If I knew more about it :) > > Re Posting Reviews: > Hm, posting book reviews to the mailing list -- > I'll ponder that. > My initial thinking is: let the author of the review > do whatever he or she wants. > That's fair. Belden From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 3 12:47:40 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? In-Reply-To: <3E3EAA18.50209@iii.com> References: <200302030256.SAA31307@molly.iii.com> <200302022359.32933.george@metaart.org> <3E3EAA18.50209@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302031047.40407.george@metaart.org> Well, I'm not sure how much you know. If you have only a faint idea about what blogging is (my state before I read the book) the following may be relevant: * reading the section of my review entitled "What's a Blog, anyway" (i.e. the first section in the right column) * following the links under the heading "a few links to blogs i like" (which heading is in the right column of my review) Oh yeah, the review is at http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/blogging.html Or you can get to it by clicking on Reviews on our home page, etc. -- George On Monday 03 February 2003 9:42 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > George Woolley wrote: > > Re Blogging: > > I'm not clear what you're saying. > > You'd be interested in blogging if what? > > If I knew more about it :) > ...... From extasia at extasia.org Mon Feb 3 13:15:53 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org>; from george@metaart.org on Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 08:42:57PM -0800 References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302021743.17782.george@metaart.org> <200302021805.17764.cajun@cajuninc.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> Greetings! At 2003/02/02/20:42 -0800 George Woolley wrote: > David A., what are your directions? Doesn't look good for this week (two dress rehearsals and two concerts--including one at Grace Cathedral--see if interested). Will be out of town most of next week. Then, Saturday Feb 15 is sig-beer-west . So, my directions, nay, my commandments, nay, my ultimatums, are: :-) 1. Come to sig-beer-west at 18:00 on Saturday, Feb 15, at the Toronado Pub in the Haight in San Francisco. 2. Let me know if there's any interest in a sig-beer-east-bay sometime between 2/17 and 2/22. David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030203/4f90a210/attachment.bin From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 3 15:19:17 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> Message-ID: <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> ah, sig-beer-east-bay between 2/17 and 2/22. Can anyone suggest a specific time and place? On Monday 03 February 2003 11:15 am, David Alban wrote: > Greetings! > > At 2003/02/02/20:42 -0800 George Woolley wrote: > > David A., what are your directions? > > Doesn't look good for this week (two dress rehearsals and two > concerts--including one at Grace Cathedral--see > if interested). > Will be out of town most of next week. Then, Saturday Feb 15 is > sig-beer-west . > > So, my directions, nay, my commandments, nay, my ultimatums, are: :-) > > 1. Come to sig-beer-west at 18:00 on Saturday, Feb 15, at the > Toronado Pub in the Haight in San Francisco. > > 2. Let me know if there's any interest in a sig-beer-east-bay > sometime between 2/17 and 2/22. > > David From a_lamothe at operamail.com Mon Feb 3 19:23:56 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? Message-ID: <20030204012356.18574.qmail@operamail.com> Hi George, You mentioned that the person may need more than one developer. If he does, I currently have a comfortable place to work with my own static IP address on a T-1 connection. Also, my computer is dual-boot Windows 98 (I can install Windows 2000 Professional if needed,) and SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional. See you later, I enjoyed the late dinner last night, the place we went has a nice cheery atmosphere. Adrien ----- Original Message ----- From: George Woolley Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:47:20 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > I have only a simple modem connection. > Woe is me. :( > > But I have the possibility of a contract > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > for which contract I will need > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > Who do I get whichever from? > What else should I be concerned about? > > I know not what information is helpful > in giving me council. > But perhaps the following is relevant: > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > The one who may contract me > says he will supply me with a PC > which will run some version of that other OS. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > -- George > > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From a_lamothe at operamail.com Mon Feb 3 19:27:10 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? Message-ID: <20030204012710.21138.qmail@operamail.com> George, I'm not sure exactly what you change, but both reviews look better to me than they did the other day. - Adrien ----- Original Message ----- From: George Woolley Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:51:29 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: Re: [oak perl] Blogging? > Thanks for the feedback. > Yeah, the lines are kind of narrow. > I've widened them a tad based on your feedback. > I wasn't sure how much to widen them, > and so I did some research on the web. > I followed what I found there. > It does seem better. > > So anyone do any blogging? > > On Friday 31 January 2003 7:54 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > > The review is nicely written. The one thing I didn't care > > for is how the text is contained within a rather narrow > > column on the right side of the web page, but I was still > > able to read it easily. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: George Woolley > > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:48:34 -0800 > > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > > Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? > > > ... > > > I did a review of "Essential Blogging". See: > > > http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/blogging.html > > > ... > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From lcurrie at CalAcademy.Org Mon Feb 3 20:04:32 2003 From: lcurrie at CalAcademy.Org (Larry Currie) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? It's in my neighborhood. Larry Currie George Woolley wrote: > ah, sig-beer-east-bay between 2/17 and 2/22. > Can anyone suggest a specific time and place? > > On Monday 03 February 2003 11:15 am, David Alban wrote: > > Greetings! > > > > At 2003/02/02/20:42 -0800 George Woolley wrote: > > > David A., what are your directions? > > > > Doesn't look good for this week (two dress rehearsals and two > > concerts--including one at Grace Cathedral--see > > if interested). > > Will be out of town most of next week. Then, Saturday Feb 15 is > > sig-beer-west . > > > > So, my directions, nay, my commandments, nay, my ultimatums, are: :-) > > > > 1. Come to sig-beer-west at 18:00 on Saturday, Feb 15, at the > > Toronado Pub in the Haight in San Francisco. > > > > 2. Let me know if there's any interest in a sig-beer-east-bay > > sometime between 2/17 and 2/22. > > > > David > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 3 20:41:24 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? In-Reply-To: <20030204012710.21138.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20030204012710.21138.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <200302031841.24916.george@metaart.org> Adrien, I widened the right column on both reviews. I think the change is an improvement too. The amount I widened the right columns was not a lot, so I'm not surprised you're not exactly sure what I changed. Thanks for the suggestion. I think it makes the reviews easier to deal with. And I learned something I can apply elsewhere as well. -- George On Monday 03 February 2003 5:27 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > George, > > I'm not sure exactly what you change, but both reviews > look better to me than they did the other day. > > - Adrien > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Woolley > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:51:29 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [oak perl] Blogging? > > > Thanks for the feedback. > > Yeah, the lines are kind of narrow. > > I've widened them a tad based on your feedback. > > I wasn't sure how much to widen them, > > and so I did some research on the web. > > I followed what I found there. > > It does seem better. > > > > So anyone do any blogging? > > > > On Friday 31 January 2003 7:54 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > > > The review is nicely written. The one thing I didn't care > > > for is how the text is contained within a rather narrow > > > column on the right side of the web page, but I was still > > > able to read it easily. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: George Woolley > > > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:48:34 -0800 > > > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > > > Subject: [oak perl] Blogging? > > > > > > > ... > > > > I did a review of "Essential Blogging". See: > > > > http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/blogging.html > > > > ... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 3 20:53:48 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> Message-ID: <200302031853.48467.george@metaart.org> David, Mike, Belden, and other beer drinkers, and anyone else interested, What do you think? Hm, and what's a specific time (or range of times) that works?? On Monday 03 February 2003 6:04 pm, Larry Currie wrote: > Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? > It's in my neighborhood. > > Larry Currie > > George Woolley wrote: > > ah, sig-beer-east-bay between 2/17 and 2/22. > > Can anyone suggest a specific time and place? > > > > On Monday 03 February 2003 11:15 am, David Alban wrote: > > > Greetings! > > > > > > At 2003/02/02/20:42 -0800 George Woolley wrote: > > > > David A., what are your directions? > > > > > > Doesn't look good for this week (two dress rehearsals and two > > > concerts--including one at Grace Cathedral--see > > > if interested). > > > Will be out of town most of next week. Then, Saturday Feb 15 is > > > sig-beer-west . > > > > > > So, my directions, nay, my commandments, nay, my ultimatums, are: :-) > > > > > > 1. Come to sig-beer-west at 18:00 on Saturday, Feb 15, at the > > > Toronado Pub in the Haight in San Francisco. > > > > > > 2. Let me know if there's any interest in a sig-beer-east-bay > > > sometime between 2/17 and 2/22. > > > > > > David > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From a_lamothe at operamail.com Mon Feb 3 20:53:39 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? Message-ID: <20030204025339.22464.qmail@operamail.com> Hi Larry, That sounds like a good location. Is it hard to find parking there? ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Currie Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:04:32 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: Re: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? > Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? It's > in my neighborhood. > > Larry Currie > > George Woolley wrote: > > > ah, sig-beer-east-bay between 2/17 and 2/22. > > Can anyone suggest a specific time and place? > > > > On Monday 03 February 2003 11:15 am, David Alban wrote: > > > Greetings! > > > > > > At 2003/02/02/20:42 -0800 George Woolley wrote: > > > > David A., what are your directions? > > > > > > Doesn't look good for this week (two dress rehearsals and two > > > concerts--including one at Grace Cathedral--see > > > if interested). > > > Will be out of town most of next week. Then, Saturday Feb 15 is > > > sig-beer-west . > > > > > > So, my directions, nay, my commandments, nay, my ultimatums, are: :-) > > > > > > 1. Come to sig-beer-west at 18:00 on Saturday, Feb 15, at the > > > Toronado Pub in the Haight in San Francisco. > > > > > > 2. Let me know if there's any interest in a sig-beer-east-bay > > > sometime between 2/17 and 2/22. > > > > > > David > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From a_lamothe at operamail.com Mon Feb 3 22:46:17 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] (no subject) Message-ID: <20030204044617.13678.qmail@operamail.com> Hello All, I came across a web page at San Francisco Perl Mongers that contains a decent amount ofjob listings. Most of the jobs are for Perl programming, but other types of Perl work is listed. Although most of the jobs are not in the Bay area, many of them allow telecommuting; you click on a "Telecommute" link in the jobs page that will display the telecommuting positons. The URL is: http://jobs.perl.org/ Happy job hunting, Adrien -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From a_lamothe at operamail.com Mon Feb 3 22:52:24 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl Job Listings at SanFrancisco.pm Message-ID: <20030204045224.18276.qmail@operamail.com> Hello All, I came across a web page at San Francisco Perl Mongers that contains a decent amount ofjob listings. Most of the jobs are for Perl programming, but other types of Perl work is listed. Although most of the jobs are not in the Bay area, many of them allow telecommuting; you click on a "Telecommute" link in the jobs page that will display the telecommuting positons. The URL is: http://jobs.perl.org/ Happy job hunting, Adrien -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From a_lamothe at operamail.com Tue Feb 4 01:27:05 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? Message-ID: <20030204072705.7370.qmail@operamail.com> Hi George, SuSE Linux has a very easy-to-use graphical DSL configuration utility. You can get to it by first running Yast Control Center, then selecting "Network/Basic". In "Network/Basic," there is a "DSL configuration" icon/ option (an icon if you are using Yast2, a menu option if using text-based Yast.) When you run "DSL configuration," a one-page form will present itself; the configuration options are fairly simple. You will use the configuration options supplied by the DSL provider. I would suggest choosing the "Activate firewall" option (even though the provider should have a firewall and other types of security.) One important detail: If the DSL provider is providing the DSL modem (usually the case,) then make sure that the model they give you will work with SuSE/Linux. You can do this by going to SuSE's home page (www.suse.com) and clicking through the "Hardware Database" link (located on the left menu.) A "Simple Search" or "ID Search" (as opposed to "Extended Search") will suffice to check compatibility of the device in question. I like to perform a simple search using the manufacturer name and device type (in this case, "modem,") because such a search will produce a list of any devices that SuSE has information about. Note that absence from the list doesn't mean the device won't work (many devices enjoy linux kernel module support,) but in this case you use the device at your own risk. Best Wishes, Adrien ----- Original Message ----- From: George Woolley Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:47:20 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > I have only a simple modem connection. > Woe is me. :( > > But I have the possibility of a contract > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > for which contract I will need > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > Who do I get whichever from? > What else should I be concerned about? > > I know not what information is helpful > in giving me council. > But perhaps the following is relevant: > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > The one who may contract me > says he will supply me with a PC > which will run some version of that other OS. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > -- George > > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From cajun at cajuninc.com Tue Feb 4 01:48:02 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? In-Reply-To: <20030204072705.7370.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20030204072705.7370.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <200302032348.02675.cajun@cajuninc.com> Or, you could just use a terminal window..... :-) On Monday 03 February 2003 23:27, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Hi George, > > SuSE Linux has a very easy-to-use graphical > DSL configuration utility. You can get to it by first > running Yast Control Center, then selecting "Network/Basic". > In "Network/Basic," there is a "DSL configuration" icon/ > option (an icon if you are using Yast2, a menu option if > using text-based Yast.) > When you run "DSL configuration," a one-page form will > present itself; the configuration options are fairly > simple. You will use the configuration options supplied > by the DSL provider. I would suggest choosing the > "Activate firewall" option (even though the provider > should have a firewall and other types of security.) > > One important detail: If the DSL provider is providing > the DSL modem (usually the case,) then make sure that the > model they give you will work with SuSE/Linux. You can do > this by going to SuSE's home page (www.suse.com) and > clicking through the "Hardware Database" link (located on > the left menu.) A "Simple Search" or "ID Search" (as > opposed to "Extended Search") will suffice to check compatibility of the > device in question. I like to perform a simple search using the > manufacturer name and device type > (in this case, "modem,") because such a search will produce > a list of any devices that SuSE has information about. Note > that absence from the list doesn't mean the device won't > work (many devices enjoy linux kernel module support,) but > in this case you use the device at your own risk. > > Best Wishes, > > Adrien > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Woolley > > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:47:20 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > > Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? > > > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > > I have only a simple modem connection. > > Woe is me. :( > > > > But I have the possibility of a contract > > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > > for which contract I will need > > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > > Who do I get whichever from? > > What else should I be concerned about? > > > > I know not what information is helpful > > in giving me council. > > But perhaps the following is relevant: > > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > > The one who may contract me > > says he will supply me with a PC > > which will run some version of that other OS. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > -- George > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- Every bug you find is the last one. 23:45:01 up 17 days, 6:44, 5 users, load average: 1.16, 1.07, 0.93 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From a_lamothe at operamail.com Tue Feb 4 02:34:25 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? Message-ID: <20030204083426.13262.qmail@operamail.com> Use a terminal window to do what? To configure the DSL modem? What program or script would you run from the terminal window to configure the modem? Yast1 (invoked as "yast,") is a curses-based program that runs within a terminal/shell window or session, so it meets that criterion. Yast2 is the graphical version that requires an active window manager. Both versions have the same menu structure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "M.Lewis" Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:48:02 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: Re: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? > Or, you could just use a terminal window..... :-) > > On Monday 03 February 2003 23:27, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > > Hi George, > > > > SuSE Linux has a very easy-to-use graphical > > DSL configuration utility. You can get to it by first > > running Yast Control Center, then selecting "Network/Basic". > > In "Network/Basic," there is a "DSL configuration" icon/ > > option (an icon if you are using Yast2, a menu option if > > using text-based Yast.) > > When you run "DSL configuration," a one-page form will > > present itself; the configuration options are fairly > > simple. You will use the configuration options supplied > > by the DSL provider. I would suggest choosing the > > "Activate firewall" option (even though the provider > > should have a firewall and other types of security.) > > > > One important detail: If the DSL provider is providing > > the DSL modem (usually the case,) then make sure that the > > model they give you will work with SuSE/Linux. You can do > > this by going to SuSE's home page (www.suse.com) and > > clicking through the "Hardware Database" link (located on > > the left menu.) A "Simple Search" or "ID Search" (as > > opposed to "Extended Search") will suffice to check compatibility of the > > device in question. I like to perform a simple search using the > > manufacturer name and device type > > (in this case, "modem,") because such a search will produce > > a list of any devices that SuSE has information about. Note > > that absence from the list doesn't mean the device won't > > work (many devices enjoy linux kernel module support,) but > > in this case you use the device at your own risk. > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > Adrien > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: George Woolley > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:47:20 -0800 > > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > > > > Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? > > > > > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > > > I have only a simple modem connection. > > > Woe is me. :( > > > > > > But I have the possibility of a contract > > > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > > > for which contract I will need > > > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > > > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > > > > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > > > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > > > Who do I get whichever from? > > > What else should I be concerned about? > > > > > > I know not what information is helpful > > > in giving me council. > > > But perhaps the following is relevant: > > > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > > > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > > > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > > > The one who may contract me > > > says he will supply me with a PC > > > which will run some version of that other OS. > > > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > -- George > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oakland mailing list > > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > -- > > Every bug you find is the last one. > 23:45:01 up 17 days, 6:44, 5 users, load average: 1.16, 1.07, 0.93 > > Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From cajun at cajuninc.com Tue Feb 4 02:40:10 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? In-Reply-To: <20030204083426.13262.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20030204083426.13262.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <200302040040.10167.cajun@cajuninc.com> Yes, to configure the network adapter to talk to the modem. No script. Just edit the files. The last time I saw SUSE, it didn't have such an animal that I know of. But that's been 3 or maybe 4 years ago now. On Tuesday 04 February 2003 00:34, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Use a terminal window to do what? To configure the > DSL modem? What program or script would you run from > the terminal window to configure the modem? > Yast1 (invoked as "yast,") is a curses-based program > that runs within a terminal/shell window or session, > so it meets that criterion. Yast2 is the graphical > version that requires an active window manager. > Both versions have the same menu structure. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "M.Lewis" > Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:48:02 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? > > > Or, you could just use a terminal window..... :-) > > > > On Monday 03 February 2003 23:27, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > > > Hi George, > > > > > > SuSE Linux has a very easy-to-use graphical > > > DSL configuration utility. You can get to it by first > > > running Yast Control Center, then selecting "Network/Basic". > > > In "Network/Basic," there is a "DSL configuration" icon/ > > > option (an icon if you are using Yast2, a menu option if > > > using text-based Yast.) > > > When you run "DSL configuration," a one-page form will > > > present itself; the configuration options are fairly > > > simple. You will use the configuration options supplied > > > by the DSL provider. I would suggest choosing the > > > "Activate firewall" option (even though the provider > > > should have a firewall and other types of security.) > > > > > > One important detail: If the DSL provider is providing > > > the DSL modem (usually the case,) then make sure that the > > > model they give you will work with SuSE/Linux. You can do > > > this by going to SuSE's home page (www.suse.com) and > > > clicking through the "Hardware Database" link (located on > > > the left menu.) A "Simple Search" or "ID Search" (as > > > opposed to "Extended Search") will suffice to check compatibility of > > > the device in question. I like to perform a simple search using the > > > manufacturer name and device type > > > (in this case, "modem,") because such a search will produce > > > a list of any devices that SuSE has information about. Note > > > that absence from the list doesn't mean the device won't > > > work (many devices enjoy linux kernel module support,) but > > > in this case you use the device at your own risk. > > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > > > Adrien > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: George Woolley > > > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:47:20 -0800 > > > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > > > > > > Subject: [oak perl] DSL or Cable, etc.? > > > > > > > Oh learned sysadmin gurus and other wise ones, > > > > I have only a simple modem connection. > > > > Woe is me. :( > > > > > > > > But I have the possibility of a contract > > > > working from home (doing Perl --yes!), > > > > for which contract I will need > > > > a high speed connection for downloads. :) > > > > Perhaps I should get such a connection anyway. > > > > > > > > So I seek council from those wiser than I. > > > > Is it better to go cable or DSL? > > > > Who do I get whichever from? > > > > What else should I be concerned about? > > > > > > > > I know not what information is helpful > > > > in giving me council. > > > > But perhaps the following is relevant: > > > > * I live in Oakland (near the Grand Lake Theater) > > > > * I have two PCs on which I run Linux > > > > plus an ancient MAC Performa. > > > > The one who may contract me > > > > says he will supply me with a PC > > > > which will run some version of that other OS. > > > > > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > -- George > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Oakland mailing list > > > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > > > -- > > > > Every bug you find is the last one. > > 23:45:01 up 17 days, 6:44, 5 users, load average: 1.16, 1.07, 0.93 > > > > Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- This login session: $13.76, but for you: $11.88. 00:35:00 up 17 days, 7:34, 5 users, load average: 0.01, 0.34, 0.68 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From blyman at iii.com Tue Feb 4 10:47:25 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> <200302031853.48467.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E3FEE9D.50601@iii.com> I like Cato's - good atmosphere, great fries, nice location. We'd need to arrange a carpool for David, since the nearest BARTS are all about 20 blocks away. But we've got enough cellphones and cars in the group to coordinate a run. Belden George Woolley wrote: > David, Mike, Belden, and other beer drinkers, and anyone else interested, > What do you think? > Hm, and what's a specific time (or range of times) that works?? > > On Monday 03 February 2003 6:04 pm, Larry Currie wrote: > >>Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? >>It's in my neighborhood. >> >>Larry Currie From blyman at iii.com Tue Feb 4 11:02:59 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web Message-ID: <3E3FF243.6090707@iii.com> Adrien's recent e-mail about finding http://jobs.perl.org made me think that it would be a good idea to collect websites related to perl. Here's a few I know about: http://www.perl.com - the Perl homepage, hosted by O'Reilley. They've got summaries of the Perl6 development; book reviews (O'Reilley and other publishers); How-To type articles; a small collection of useful Perl scripts. You can download the source for Perl 5.8 from here, and visit CPAN. The thing that kept attracting me back to it when I first found it was the random Recipe of the day - each day, a new excerpt from the Perl Cookbook. http://use.perl.org - Perl advocacy homepage. There's lots of folks that have journals up here - some of them look like journals, others have a technical bent to them. http://kobesearch.cpan.org - Randy Kobes' CPAN search engine. This thing rocks; you can even configure your *nix desktop to do a quick install of modules that look interesting to you. http://www.perldoc.com - Just what it sounds like: perldocs, and lots of 'em. The default docs are 5.8, but they've got docs going back to 5.0 or thereabouts. http://apprentice.perl.org - I found out about this one just yesterday, reading an article at perl.com. This looks a bit like a Perl-only Sourceforge site; the homepage describes its mission, go check it out. Belden From extasia at extasia.org Tue Feb 4 11:49:39 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org>; from lcurrie@calacademy.org on Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 06:04:32PM -0800 References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> Message-ID: <20030204094939.B20183@new.gerasimov.net> Greetings! At 2003/02/03/18:04 -0800 Larry Currie wrote: > Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? It's > in my neighborhood. How is the beer selection at Cato's? David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030204/b695ae0a/attachment.bin From blyman at iii.com Tue Feb 4 12:17:15 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> <20030204094939.B20183@new.gerasimov.net> Message-ID: <3E4003AB.70207@iii.com> David Alban wrote: > Greetings! > > At 2003/02/03/18:04 -0800 Larry Currie wrote: > >>Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? It's >>in my neighborhood. > > > How is the beer selection at Cato's? > > David Check out the beer selection: http://www.mrcato.com/CBar.htm From the page (caps theirs, not mine): WARNING: YOU WILL NOT FIND BUD, MILLER, COORS OR ANY BEERS LIKE THESE AT CATOS. WE ONLY CARRY TOP QUALITY MICROS, CRAFT BREWS, SPECIALTY, AND IMPORTED ALES AND LAGERS. HERE IS A LIST OF WHAT WE CARRY ON A "PERMANENT" BASIS: Belden From extasia at extasia.org Tue Feb 4 13:09:04 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org>; from lcurrie@calacademy.org on Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 06:04:32PM -0800 References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> Message-ID: <20030204110904.D20994@new.gerasimov.net> Greetings! At 2003/02/03/18:04 -0800 Larry Currie wrote: > Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? It's > in my neighborhood. Either Thursday (2/20) or Saturday (2/22) is good for me. Anyone have a preference? Cato's sounds awesome. If Thursday, I would suggest 7:30pm as a start time. If Saturday, I would suggest 6:00pm. David P.S. BART carpooling would be appreciated. Thanks, Belden! -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030204/e5c63a6a/attachment.bin From cajun at cajuninc.com Tue Feb 4 14:15:03 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (cajun@cajuninc.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? In-Reply-To: <20030204110904.D20994@new.gerasimov.net> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> <20030204110904.D20994@new.gerasimov.net> Message-ID: <38530.206.180.228.114.1044389703.squirrel@rattler.cajuninc.com> Cast my vote for Thurs (2/20). David, I can pick you up at BART if you like. M > Greetings! > > At 2003/02/03/18:04 -0800 Larry Currie wrote: >> Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? >> It's in my neighborhood. > > Either Thursday (2/20) or Saturday (2/22) is good for me. Anyone have a > preference? > > Cato's sounds awesome. > > If Thursday, I would suggest 7:30pm as a start time. If Saturday, I > would suggest 6:00pm. > > David > > P.S. BART carpooling would be appreciated. Thanks, Belden! > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > *** > Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ > Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ From blyman at iii.com Tue Feb 4 14:22:54 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302022042.57788.george@metaart.org> <20030203111553.A9429@new.gerasimov.net> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> <20030204110904.D20994@new.gerasimov.net> <38530.206.180.228.114.1044389703.squirrel@rattler.cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <3E40211E.4060301@iii.com> Thursday at 7:30 sounds great. I'll probably be able to talk Venece into coming; I've got her sold on the upcoming sig-beer-west if you can believe that. This means that the testosterone level will be a bit lower, in case any, ahem, other people would like to show up but have been, ahem, reluctant to do so until now. Ahem. BART-ers can contact Mike or me for transport. Belden cajun@cajuninc.com wrote: > Cast my vote for Thurs (2/20). > David, I can pick you up at BART if you like. > > M > >>Greetings! >> >>At 2003/02/03/18:04 -0800 Larry Currie wrote: >> >>>Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? >>> It's in my neighborhood. >> >>Either Thursday (2/20) or Saturday (2/22) is good for me. Anyone have a >>preference? >> >>Cato's sounds awesome. >> >>If Thursday, I would suggest 7:30pm as a start time. If Saturday, I >>would suggest 6:00pm. >> >>David >> >>P.S. BART carpooling would be appreciated. Thanks, Belden! >>-- >>Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. >> *** >>Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ >>Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ > > > > From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 4 15:48:46 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web In-Reply-To: <3E3FF243.6090707@iii.com> References: <3E3FF243.6090707@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302041348.46119.george@metaart.org> Yes, good idea. Anyone have something else they'd like to add? On Tuesday 04 February 2003 9:02 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > Adrien's recent e-mail about finding http://jobs.perl.org > made me think that it would be a good idea to collect websites > related to perl. Here's a few I know about: > > http://www.perl.com - the Perl homepage, hosted by O'Reilley. > They've got summaries of the Perl6 development; book reviews > (O'Reilley and other publishers); How-To type articles; a > small collection of useful Perl scripts. You can download the > source for Perl 5.8 from here, and visit CPAN. The thing that > kept attracting me back to it when I first found it was the > random Recipe of the day - each day, a new excerpt from the > Perl Cookbook. > > http://use.perl.org - Perl advocacy homepage. There's lots of > folks that have journals up here - some of them look like > journals, others have a technical bent to them. > > http://kobesearch.cpan.org - Randy Kobes' CPAN search engine. > This thing rocks; you can even configure your *nix desktop to > do a quick install of modules that look interesting to you. > > http://www.perldoc.com - Just what it sounds like: perldocs, > and lots of 'em. The default docs are 5.8, but they've got > docs going back to 5.0 or thereabouts. > > http://apprentice.perl.org - I found out about this one just > yesterday, reading an article at perl.com. This looks a bit > like a Perl-only Sourceforge site; the homepage describes its > mission, go check it out. > > Belden From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 4 17:00:52 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Meeting: Tuesday, February 11 Message-ID: <200302041500.52238.george@metaart.org> reference: http://oakland.pm.org Our next meeting is in one week. I hope you can come. From lcurrie at CalAcademy.Org Tue Feb 4 17:44:53 2003 From: lcurrie at CalAcademy.Org (Larry Currie) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? References: <20030204025339.22464.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <3E405074.DEF667C3@calacademy.org> Hi Adrien, Probably the best possibility for parking in the area is the City of Oakland lot between 40th and 41st St. and Piedmont Ave. and Howe St. Parking should be free there after about 5 pm. Larry Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Hi Larry, > > That sounds like a good location. Is it hard to find > parking there? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Currie > Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:04:32 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? > > > Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? It's > > in my neighborhood. > > > > Larry Currie > > > > George Woolley wrote: > > > > > ah, sig-beer-east-bay between 2/17 and 2/22. > > > Can anyone suggest a specific time and place? > > > > > > On Monday 03 February 2003 11:15 am, David Alban wrote: > > > > Greetings! > > > > > > > > At 2003/02/02/20:42 -0800 George Woolley wrote: > > > > > David A., what are your directions? > > > > > > > > Doesn't look good for this week (two dress rehearsals and two > > > > concerts--including one at Grace Cathedral--see > > > > if interested). > > > > Will be out of town most of next week. Then, Saturday Feb 15 is > > > > sig-beer-west . > > > > > > > > So, my directions, nay, my commandments, nay, my ultimatums, are: :-) > > > > > > > > 1. Come to sig-beer-west at 18:00 on Saturday, Feb 15, at the > > > > Toronado Pub in the Haight in San Francisco. > > > > > > > > 2. Let me know if there's any interest in a sig-beer-east-bay > > > > sometime between 2/17 and 2/22. > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oakland mailing list > > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.operamail.com > Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr > > Powered by Outblaze > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- Lawrence W. Currie User Services Librarian California Academy of Sciences Golden Gate Park San Francisco, CA 94118 lcurrie@calacademy.org (415) 750-7108 (415) 750-7106 fax http://www.calacademy.org/research/library/ From lcurrie at CalAcademy.Org Tue Feb 4 18:00:43 2003 From: lcurrie at CalAcademy.Org (Larry Currie) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302031319.17441.george@metaart.org> <3E3F1FB0.1D5B54E2@calacademy.org> <200302031853.48467.george@metaart.org> <3E3FEE9D.50601@iii.com> Message-ID: <3E40542B.B916A222@calacademy.org> And on weekdays Kaiser Permanente Oakland provides a free shuttle to the MacArthur BART station until 9 pm. Larry Currie Belden Lyman wrote: > I like Cato's - good atmosphere, great fries, nice location. > > We'd need to arrange a carpool for David, since the nearest BARTS > are all about 20 blocks away. But we've got enough cellphones and > cars in the group to coordinate a run. > > Belden > > George Woolley wrote: > > David, Mike, Belden, and other beer drinkers, and anyone else interested, > > What do you think? > > Hm, and what's a specific time (or range of times) that works?? > > > > On Monday 03 February 2003 6:04 pm, Larry Currie wrote: > > > >>Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? > >>It's in my neighborhood. > >> > >>Larry Currie > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- Lawrence W. Currie User Services Librarian California Academy of Sciences Golden Gate Park San Francisco, CA 94118 lcurrie@calacademy.org (415) 750-7108 (415) 750-7106 fax http://www.calacademy.org/research/library/ From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 4 19:57:12 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:28 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Come to Meeting? Message-ID: <200302041757.12112.george@metaart.org> David Alban will be away for our Tuesday, February 11 Meeting. So, lazy (big Perl virtue) George asks: David, will you be able to come to the meeting? reference: http://oakland.pm.org From a_lamothe at operamail.com Tue Feb 4 20:14:08 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web Message-ID: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> Maybe there should be a section on the Oakland.pm website that has a list of links to these sites. The link to this list can be placed in the same list as "Related Groups." ----- Original Message ----- From: George Woolley Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:48:46 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: Re: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web > Yes, good idea. > Anyone have something else they'd like to add? > > On Tuesday 04 February 2003 9:02 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > > Adrien's recent e-mail about finding http://jobs.perl.org > > made me think that it would be a good idea to collect websites > > related to perl. Here's a few I know about: > > > > http://www.perl.com - the Perl homepage, hosted by O'Reilley. > > They've got summaries of the Perl6 development; book reviews > > (O'Reilley and other publishers); How-To type articles; a > > small collection of useful Perl scripts. You can download the > > source for Perl 5.8 from here, and visit CPAN. The thing that > > kept attracting me back to it when I first found it was the > > random Recipe of the day - each day, a new excerpt from the > > Perl Cookbook. > > > > http://use.perl.org - Perl advocacy homepage. There's lots of > > folks that have journals up here - some of them look like > > journals, others have a technical bent to them. > > > > http://kobesearch.cpan.org - Randy Kobes' CPAN search engine. > > This thing rocks; you can even configure your *nix desktop to > > do a quick install of modules that look interesting to you. > > > > http://www.perldoc.com - Just what it sounds like: perldocs, > > and lots of 'em. The default docs are 5.8, but they've got > > docs going back to 5.0 or thereabouts. > > > > http://apprentice.perl.org - I found out about this one just > > yesterday, reading an article at perl.com. This looks a bit > > like a Perl-only Sourceforge site; the homepage describes its > > mission, go check it out. > > > > Belden > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From a_lamothe at operamail.com Tue Feb 4 20:23:58 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List Message-ID: <20030205022358.32291.qmail@operamail.com> Looks like a good idea. I like the list of questions. ----- Original Message ----- From: George Woolley Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:41:22 -0800 To: oakland@mail.pm.org Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List > I'm thinking it would be kool (perhaps even useful) > to have a FAQ for PBML. > The following is a draft for such a FAQ. > Once I get some feedback and incorporate it, > I could webify the results and put the FAQ on our site. > > Mike, please make comments and corrections. > Everyone, what do you think? > > PBML FAQ > ========= > 1) What's PBML stand for? > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > 3) Who is PBML for? > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > 5) What are Perl basics? > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > 8) When did PBML get started? > 9) Who hosts PBML? > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > ------------------------- > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > Perl Basics Mailing List > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > PBML is a place for asking and answering questions > about Perl basics with the intent of mastering them, > so that we may write > more efficient, more understandable and more reliable Perl programs. > > It's intended to be a comfortable place for beginners > to ask their Perl questions. > > 3) Who is PBML for? > PBML is for beginners, especially. > PBML is also for anyone who wants to more deeply understand basics. > One of the best ways to deepen one's understanding of basics is > to see the problems others have and help them get beyond > those problems. > No matter how advanced you are, there is always more to grasp > concerning Perl basics. > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > It's especially for Oakland.pm members. > > However, some subscribers to PBML > are not Oakland.pm subscribers. > And that's OK. > So far we just haven't told other groups > about PBML. > > 5) What are Perl basics? > We don't have a concensus on this. > But it certainly includes > the basics of hashes and regular expressions > which confuse a lot of people. > > Whatever you think Perl basics are, > keep in mind that the list is especially for beginners > and that there are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > No! No! > No Perl questions are too easy for PBML. > There are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > There are no bad Perl questions on PBML. > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > Asking is always fine. > But you may not get an answer. > You may instead be directed to somewhere where the responder > thinks you'll get a better answer. > E.g. to Perl Monks . > > 8) When did PBML get started? > On November 23, Mike Lewis proposed such a list. > On November 25, George Woolley described PBML to the group. > On November 26, Mike Lewis set up PBML, > and Mike, Belden Lyman & George began experimenting with it > and testing it. > On December 2, David Alban did the first post to the list > that was not by Mike, Belden or George. > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > Mike Lewis set it up on his equipment. > And he hosts it. > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > Subscribe on the PBML Info List page. > > It should be easy to do. > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > See the PBML Archive. > > > Last Updated: 2003-02-02 > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From a_lamothe at operamail.com Tue Feb 4 20:25:40 2003 From: a_lamothe at operamail.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? Message-ID: <20030205022540.1213.qmail@operamail.com> I don't have a preference for either day. ----- Original Message ----- From: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:15:03 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay? > > Cast my vote for Thurs (2/20). > David, I can pick you up at BART if you like. > > M > > Greetings! > > > > At 2003/02/03/18:04 -0800 Larry Currie wrote: > >> Would the 20th or the 22nd at Cato's on Piedmont Ave. work for anyone? > >> It's in my neighborhood. > > > > Either Thursday (2/20) or Saturday (2/22) is good for me. Anyone have a > > preference? > > > > Cato's sounds awesome. > > > > If Thursday, I would suggest 7:30pm as a start time. If Saturday, I > > would suggest 6:00pm. > > > > David > > > > P.S. BART carpooling would be appreciated. Thanks, Belden! > > -- > > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > > *** > > Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ > > Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- _______________________________________________ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze From blyman at iii.com Tue Feb 4 20:29:53 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web References: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <3E407721.9000001@iii.com> That could be useful. Additions to the list, below Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Maybe there should be a section on the Oakland.pm website > that has a list of links to these sites. The link to this > list can be placed in the same list as "Related Groups." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Woolley > Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:48:46 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web > > >>Yes, good idea. >>Anyone have something else they'd like to add? >> >>On Tuesday 04 February 2003 9:02 am, Belden Lyman wrote: >> >>>Adrien's recent e-mail about finding http://jobs.perl.org >>>made me think that it would be a good idea to collect websites >>>related to perl. Here's a few I know about: >>> >>>http://www.perl.com - the Perl homepage, hosted by O'Reilley. >>>They've got summaries of the Perl6 development; book reviews >>>(O'Reilley and other publishers); How-To type articles; a >>>small collection of useful Perl scripts. You can download the >>>source for Perl 5.8 from here, and visit CPAN. The thing that >>>kept attracting me back to it when I first found it was the >>>random Recipe of the day - each day, a new excerpt from the >>>Perl Cookbook. >>> >>>http://use.perl.org - Perl advocacy homepage. There's lots of >>>folks that have journals up here - some of them look like >>>journals, others have a technical bent to them. >>> >>>http://kobesearch.cpan.org - Randy Kobes' CPAN search engine. >>>This thing rocks; you can even configure your *nix desktop to >>>do a quick install of modules that look interesting to you. >>> >>>http://www.perldoc.com - Just what it sounds like: perldocs, >>>and lots of 'em. The default docs are 5.8, but they've got >>>docs going back to 5.0 or thereabouts. >>> >>>http://apprentice.perl.org - I found out about this one just >>>yesterday, reading an article at perl.com. This looks a bit >>>like a Perl-only Sourceforge site; the homepage describes its >>>mission, go check it out. >>> http://perl.plover.org - MJD's Perl Lover website. If you don't know who MJD is, then pop on over to the site: it's about time you learned. The ``Programming Red Flags'' series, ``Suffering from Buffering'' article, and ``Coping with Scoping'' are all excellent things to read. http://www.perlmonks.org - I'm suprised I forgot this before. Ask questions, get answers; troll the archives; learn from the masters. Categorized Q&A is a fun place to fish around for things which you've wondered but haven't asked. http://www.yetanother.org/damian/ - the Conway Channel. Find out what Damian has been up to, and where he's going next. This guy is *intensely* respected in the Perl community; to find out how much so, read http://www.yetanother.org/damian/about.html From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 4 21:10:34 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web In-Reply-To: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <200302041910.34979.george@metaart.org> Yeah, I think such a section would be good too. That's why I asked if anyone had any websites they wanted to add. Interesting idea to put the links on the related groups page. Thanks. On Tuesday 04 February 2003 6:14 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Maybe there should be a section on the Oakland.pm website > that has a list of links to these sites. The link to this > list can be placed in the same list as "Related Groups." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Woolley > Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:48:46 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web > > > Yes, good idea. > > Anyone have something else they'd like to add? > > > > On Tuesday 04 February 2003 9:02 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > > > Adrien's recent e-mail about finding http://jobs.perl.org > > > made me think that it would be a good idea to collect websites > > > related to perl. Here's a few I know about: > > > > > > http://www.perl.com - the Perl homepage, hosted by O'Reilley. > > > They've got summaries of the Perl6 development; book reviews > > > (O'Reilley and other publishers); How-To type articles; a > > > small collection of useful Perl scripts. You can download the > > > source for Perl 5.8 from here, and visit CPAN. The thing that > > > kept attracting me back to it when I first found it was the > > > random Recipe of the day - each day, a new excerpt from the > > > Perl Cookbook. > > > > > > http://use.perl.org - Perl advocacy homepage. There's lots of > > > folks that have journals up here - some of them look like > > > journals, others have a technical bent to them. > > > > > > http://kobesearch.cpan.org - Randy Kobes' CPAN search engine. > > > This thing rocks; you can even configure your *nix desktop to > > > do a quick install of modules that look interesting to you. > > > > > > http://www.perldoc.com - Just what it sounds like: perldocs, > > > and lots of 'em. The default docs are 5.8, but they've got > > > docs going back to 5.0 or thereabouts. > > > > > > http://apprentice.perl.org - I found out about this one just > > > yesterday, reading an article at perl.com. This looks a bit > > > like a Perl-only Sourceforge site; the homepage describes its > > > mission, go check it out. > > > > > > Belden > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 4 21:23:22 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List In-Reply-To: <20030205022358.32291.qmail@operamail.com> References: <20030205022358.32291.qmail@operamail.com> Message-ID: <200302041923.22013.george@metaart.org> Glad you like it. The FAQ (with one new item) is now on our website at: http://oakland.pm.org/mailinglists/pbml_faq.html On Tuesday 04 February 2003 6:23 pm, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Looks like a good idea. I like the list of questions. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Woolley > Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:41:22 -0800 > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Perl Basics Mailing List > > > I'm thinking it would be kool (perhaps even useful) > > to have a FAQ for PBML. > > The following is a draft for such a FAQ. > > Once I get some feedback and incorporate it, > > I could webify the results and put the FAQ on our site. > > > > Mike, please make comments and corrections. > > Everyone, what do you think? > > > > PBML FAQ > > ========= > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > > > ------------------------- > > > > 1) What's PBML stand for? > > Perl Basics Mailing List > > > > 2) What's the basic idea of PBML? > > PBML is a place for asking and answering questions > > about Perl basics with the intent of mastering them, > > so that we may write > > more efficient, more understandable and more reliable Perl programs. > > > > It's intended to be a comfortable place for beginners > > to ask their Perl questions. > > > > 3) Who is PBML for? > > PBML is for beginners, especially. > > PBML is also for anyone who wants to more deeply understand basics. > > One of the best ways to deepen one's understanding of basics is > > to see the problems others have and help them get beyond > > those problems. > > No matter how advanced you are, there is always more to grasp > > concerning Perl basics. > > > > 4) Is PBML only for Oakland.pm members? > > It's especially for Oakland.pm members. > > > > However, some subscribers to PBML > > are not Oakland.pm subscribers. > > And that's OK. > > So far we just haven't told other groups > > about PBML. > > > > 5) What are Perl basics? > > We don't have a concensus on this. > > But it certainly includes > > the basics of hashes and regular expressions > > which confuse a lot of people. > > > > Whatever you think Perl basics are, > > keep in mind that the list is especially for beginners > > and that there are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > > > 6) Are some questions too easy or dumb for PBML? > > No! No! > > No Perl questions are too easy for PBML. > > There are no dumb Perl questions on PBML. > > There are no bad Perl questions on PBML. > > > > 7) Are some questions too advanced for PBML? > > Asking is always fine. > > But you may not get an answer. > > You may instead be directed to somewhere where the responder > > thinks you'll get a better answer. > > E.g. to Perl Monks . > > > > 8) When did PBML get started? > > On November 23, Mike Lewis proposed such a list. > > On November 25, George Woolley described PBML to the group. > > On November 26, Mike Lewis set up PBML, > > and Mike, Belden Lyman & George began experimenting with it > > and testing it. > > On December 2, David Alban did the first post to the list > > that was not by Mike, Belden or George. > > > > 9) Who hosts PBML? > > Mike Lewis set it up on his equipment. > > And he hosts it. > > > > 10) How can I subscribe to PBML? > > Subscribe on the PBML Info List page. > > > > It should be easy to do. > > > > 11) How can I see what kind of posts have shown up on PBML? > > See the PBML Archive. > > > > > > Last Updated: 2003-02-02 > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 4 21:25:42 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web In-Reply-To: <3E407721.9000001@iii.com> References: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> <3E407721.9000001@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302041925.42173.george@metaart.org> 3 more. Thanks. On Tuesday 04 February 2003 6:29 pm, Belden Lyman wrote: > That could be useful. > > Additions to the list, below > > Adrien Lamothe wrote: > > Maybe there should be a section on the Oakland.pm website > > that has a list of links to these sites. The link to this > > list can be placed in the same list as "Related Groups." > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: George Woolley > > Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:48:46 -0800 > > To: oakland@mail.pm.org > > Subject: Re: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web > > > >>Yes, good idea. > >>Anyone have something else they'd like to add? > >> > >>On Tuesday 04 February 2003 9:02 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > >>>Adrien's recent e-mail about finding http://jobs.perl.org > >>>made me think that it would be a good idea to collect websites > >>>related to perl. Here's a few I know about: > >>> > >>>http://www.perl.com - the Perl homepage, hosted by O'Reilley. > >>>They've got summaries of the Perl6 development; book reviews > >>>(O'Reilley and other publishers); How-To type articles; a > >>>small collection of useful Perl scripts. You can download the > >>>source for Perl 5.8 from here, and visit CPAN. The thing that > >>>kept attracting me back to it when I first found it was the > >>>random Recipe of the day - each day, a new excerpt from the > >>>Perl Cookbook. > >>> > >>>http://use.perl.org - Perl advocacy homepage. There's lots of > >>>folks that have journals up here - some of them look like > >>>journals, others have a technical bent to them. > >>> > >>>http://kobesearch.cpan.org - Randy Kobes' CPAN search engine. > >>>This thing rocks; you can even configure your *nix desktop to > >>>do a quick install of modules that look interesting to you. > >>> > >>>http://www.perldoc.com - Just what it sounds like: perldocs, > >>>and lots of 'em. The default docs are 5.8, but they've got > >>>docs going back to 5.0 or thereabouts. > >>> > >>>http://apprentice.perl.org - I found out about this one just > >>>yesterday, reading an article at perl.com. This looks a bit > >>>like a Perl-only Sourceforge site; the homepage describes its > >>>mission, go check it out. > > http://perl.plover.org - MJD's Perl Lover website. If you don't > know who MJD is, then pop on over to the site: it's about time > you learned. The ``Programming Red Flags'' series, ``Suffering > from Buffering'' article, and ``Coping with Scoping'' are all > excellent things to read. > > http://www.perlmonks.org - I'm suprised I forgot this before. > Ask questions, get answers; troll the archives; learn from the > masters. Categorized Q&A is a fun place to fish around for things > which you've wondered but haven't asked. > > http://www.yetanother.org/damian/ - the Conway Channel. Find out > what Damian has been up to, and where he's going next. This guy > is *intensely* respected in the Perl community; to find out how > much so, read http://www.yetanother.org/damian/about.html > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Wed Feb 5 11:33:16 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web In-Reply-To: <3E407721.9000001@iii.com> References: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> <3E407721.9000001@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302050933.16584.george@metaart.org> A possible addition from Ken Chow: http://www.theperlreview.com/ On Tuesday 04 February 2003 6:29 pm, Belden Lyman wrote: > ... > Additions to the list, below > ... > >> > >>On Tuesday 04 February 2003 9:02 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > >>>Adrien's recent e-mail about finding http://jobs.perl.org > >>>made me think that it would be a good idea to collect websites > >>>related to perl. Here's a few I know about: > >>> > >>>http://www.perl.com - the Perl homepage, hosted by O'Reilley. > >>>They've got summaries of the Perl6 development; book reviews > >>>(O'Reilley and other publishers); How-To type articles; a > >>>small collection of useful Perl scripts. You can download the > >>>source for Perl 5.8 from here, and visit CPAN. The thing that > >>>kept attracting me back to it when I first found it was the > >>>random Recipe of the day - each day, a new excerpt from the > >>>Perl Cookbook. > >>> > >>>http://use.perl.org - Perl advocacy homepage. There's lots of > >>>folks that have journals up here - some of them look like > >>>journals, others have a technical bent to them. > >>> > >>>http://kobesearch.cpan.org - Randy Kobes' CPAN search engine. > >>>This thing rocks; you can even configure your *nix desktop to > >>>do a quick install of modules that look interesting to you. > >>> > >>>http://www.perldoc.com - Just what it sounds like: perldocs, > >>>and lots of 'em. The default docs are 5.8, but they've got > >>>docs going back to 5.0 or thereabouts. > >>> > >>>http://apprentice.perl.org - I found out about this one just > >>>yesterday, reading an article at perl.com. This looks a bit > >>>like a Perl-only Sourceforge site; the homepage describes its > >>>mission, go check it out. > > http://perl.plover.org - MJD's Perl Lover website. If you don't > know who MJD is, then pop on over to the site: it's about time > you learned. The ``Programming Red Flags'' series, ``Suffering > from Buffering'' article, and ``Coping with Scoping'' are all > excellent things to read. > > http://www.perlmonks.org - I'm suprised I forgot this before. > Ask questions, get answers; troll the archives; learn from the > masters. Categorized Q&A is a fun place to fish around for things > which you've wondered but haven't asked. > > http://www.yetanother.org/damian/ - the Conway Channel. Find out > what Damian has been up to, and where he's going next. This guy > is *intensely* respected in the Perl community; to find out how > much so, read http://www.yetanother.org/damian/about.html From blyman at iii.com Wed Feb 5 11:52:16 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web References: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> <3E407721.9000001@iii.com> <200302050933.16584.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E414F50.8020000@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > A possible addition from Ken Chow: > http://www.theperlreview.com/ George, Nothing possible about it, this is a definite must-have! :) Actually, this reminds me of another Perl magazine: http://www.tpj.com This is also availble in e-zine format, but you may need to subscribe in order to get the full issue. Also, I think there's a guy by the handle redsquirrel on Perlmonks that has some online Perl thing, but I'll leave checking and writing back to the list as an excercise for someone else. As an incentive, if someone checks on this, I'll buy 'em a pint at the upcoming mini-sig-beer-east-bay on the 20th. Oh, you'll also have to create a Perlmonks user (if you don't have one already) and use the chat nodelet to /msg blyman hello. Belden From george at metaart.org Wed Feb 5 12:17:32 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Perl resources on the web In-Reply-To: <3E414F50.8020000@iii.com> References: <20030205021408.24396.qmail@operamail.com> <200302050933.16584.george@metaart.org> <3E414F50.8020000@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302051017.32205.george@metaart.org> Well, the Perl Resources list is growing. This is good. Anyone want to be the keeper of the list? Belden, if you wish to, that would be kool. You could just post the whole list to the mailing list periodically or when there were significant changes. Or maybe someone who has web space would take it on. Anyone want to do that (if Belden doesn't wish to be the keeper)? Another possibility is to point to an existing list that's similar. Anyone have a link to such a list that they recommend? My thought is to decentralize things a bit, so the work involved is spread out. However, I suggest you not volunteer unless you think that will be fun (or whatever you prefer). -- George On Wednesday 05 February 2003 9:52 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > George Woolley wrote: > > A possible addition from Ken Chow: > > http://www.theperlreview.com/ > > George, > > Nothing possible about it, this is a definite must-have! :) > > Actually, this reminds me of another Perl magazine: > http://www.tpj.com This is also availble in e-zine format, > but you may need to subscribe in order to get the full > issue. > > Also, I think there's a guy by the handle redsquirrel on > Perlmonks that has some online Perl thing, but I'll leave > checking and writing back to the list as an excercise for > someone else. > > As an incentive, if someone checks on this, I'll buy 'em a > pint at the upcoming mini-sig-beer-east-bay on the 20th. > Oh, you'll also have to create a Perlmonks user (if you don't > have one already) and use the chat nodelet to /msg blyman hello. > > Belden > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Fri Feb 7 21:18:55 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Review of "Free as in Freedom" Message-ID: <200302071918.55305.george@metaart.org> There's review of "Free as in Freedom" at: http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/free.html Any comments? -- George From arden at lmi.net Sun Feb 9 13:41:30 2003 From: arden at lmi.net (Arden Schaeffer) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Review of "Free as in Freedom" In-Reply-To: <200302071918.55305.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <7C8D7984-3C66-11D7-866D-0003934696D8@lmi.net> George: "captavated" should be "captivated"; and you did not say specifically, but merely implied, that the book was published by O'Reilly. It would be good to say so specifically. Otherwise, i liked what i saw. I think that it would be good to keep this review on your Web-site for a long time. Arden On Friday, Feb 7, 2003, at 19:18 US/Pacific, George Woolley wrote: > http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/free.html From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 9 16:48:05 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Review of "Free as in Freedom" In-Reply-To: <7C8D7984-3C66-11D7-866D-0003934696D8@lmi.net> References: <7C8D7984-3C66-11D7-866D-0003934696D8@lmi.net> Message-ID: <200302091448.05610.george@metaart.org> Arden, Thanks for your feedback on the review. Thanks for catching the misspelling. I have now corrected it. By pointing the misspelling out, you also brought attention to the fact I had not spell checked the review. I have now done that and have corrected another misspelling. Thanks for alerting me to the fact that it is not explicit anywhere on the page that O'Reilly is the publisher of the book being reviewed. I have added a note that makes that explicit. Thanks for the suggestion that the review be kept on our website for a long time. Right now we have only three book reviews on the site. It seems to me likely this review will be up for a long time. -- George On Sunday 09 February 2003 11:41 am, Arden Schaeffer wrote: > George: > "captavated" should be "captivated"; > and you did not say specifically, but merely implied, that the book was > published by O'Reilly. It would be good to say so specifically. > Otherwise, i liked what i saw. > I think that it would be good to keep this review on your Web-site for > a long time. > Arden > > On Friday, Feb 7, 2003, at 19:18 US/Pacific, George Woolley wrote: > > http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/free.html From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 9 18:34:36 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Meeting on Tuesday [reminder] Message-ID: <200302091634.36050.george@metaart.org> Hope to see many of you there. Note that the meeting is at a different location. But there's a link to directions. From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 9 21:19:57 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer Message-ID: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> I really like the concept of Free Software. The reality is even better. I understand that the free in Free Software is referring to Free as in Freedom as contrasted with Free as in Beer (when taken as referring to price). But I wonder ... There is another sense of Free as in Beer that I think is relevant to the Beer Sig. The other sense is freeing of inhibitions, etc. This sense is not unrelated to the saying "in vino veritas". Similarly, one might say "in beer freedom". /===============================\ Arden, can you translate that into Latin and French for us? Belden, can you translate that into Chinese and Spanish? Mike, would Tia be willing to translate that into Russian? What other languages do people know? German? Who will do Pig Latin? Anyone know any other languages? How about "Free as in Beer"? \===============================/ Comments? Translations? Perl Programs? Could we add either of the following to the Beer Sig Page: "free as in beer" "in beer freedom" or translation(s) thereof /===============================\ Anyone know the first reference to the phrase "free as in beer" in connection with software you can get without paying $? Anyone have a reference to a place where Richard Stallman uses this exact phrase? \===============================/ From arden at lmi.net Sun Feb 9 21:47:54 2003 From: arden at lmi.net (Arden Schaeffer) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <6FDF86D2-3CAA-11D7-9963-0003934696D8@lmi.net> Arden replies: Auf deutsch: Im Bier Freiheit. In interlingua: In cervesa le libertate. In Lingua latina: In cervesa libertas. En espa?ol (html: español): En cerveza la libertad. En fran?ais : En cervoise (ou en bi?re) la libert?. --but folks using non-Macintosh computers may be unable to read this, so it's better said in html: En français : En cervoise (ou en bière) la liberté. On Sunday, Feb 9, 2003, at 19:19 US/Pacific, George Woolley wrote: > I really like the concept of Free Software. > The reality is even better. > I understand that the free in Free Software is > referring to Free as in Freedom > as contrasted with Free as in Beer > (when taken as referring to price). > But I wonder ... > > There is another sense of Free as in Beer > that I think is relevant to the Beer Sig. > The other sense is freeing of inhibitions, etc. > This sense is not unrelated to the saying > "in vino veritas". > Similarly, one might say "in beer freedom". > > /===============================\ > Arden, can you translate that > into Latin and French for us? > Belden, can you translate that into > Chinese and Spanish? > Mike, would Tia be willing to translate that > into Russian? > What other languages do people know? > German? > Who will do Pig Latin? > Anyone know any other languages? > How about "Free as in Beer"? > \===============================/ > > Comments? > Translations? > Perl Programs? > > Could we add either of the following > to the Beer Sig Page: > > "free as in beer" > "in beer freedom" or translation(s) thereof > > /===============================\ > Anyone know the first reference > to the phrase "free as in beer" > in connection with software > you can get without paying $? > Anyone have a reference to a place > where Richard Stallman uses this exact phrase? > \===============================/ > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > From arden at lmi.net Sun Feb 9 21:55:27 2003 From: arden at lmi.net (Arden Schaeffer) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: Addendum to Re: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <7DD29190-3CAB-11D7-8D5B-0003934696D8@lmi.net> Arden adds an addendum: Typo: Spanish libertad should be liberdad. Em português : Em cervesa a liberdade On Sunday, Feb 9, 2003, at 19:19 US/Pacific, George Woolley wrote: > I really like the concept of Free Software. > The reality is even better. > I understand that the free in Free Software is > referring to Free as in Freedom > as contrasted with Free as in Beer > (when taken as referring to price). > But I wonder ... > > There is another sense of Free as in Beer > that I think is relevant to the Beer Sig. > The other sense is freeing of inhibitions, etc. > This sense is not unrelated to the saying > "in vino veritas". > Similarly, one might say "in beer freedom". > > /===============================\ > Arden, can you translate that > into Latin and French for us? > Belden, can you translate that into > Chinese and Spanish? > Mike, would Tia be willing to translate that > into Russian? > What other languages do people know? > German? > Who will do Pig Latin? > Anyone know any other languages? > How about "Free as in Beer"? > \===============================/ > > Comments? > Translations? > Perl Programs? > > Could we add either of the following > to the Beer Sig Page: > > "free as in beer" > "in beer freedom" or translation(s) thereof > > /===============================\ > Anyone know the first reference > to the phrase "free as in beer" > in connection with software > you can get without paying $? > Anyone have a reference to a place > where Richard Stallman uses this exact phrase? > \===============================/ > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 9 22:21:15 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <6FDF86D2-3CAA-11D7-9963-0003934696D8@lmi.net> References: <6FDF86D2-3CAA-11D7-9963-0003934696D8@lmi.net> Message-ID: <200302092021.15358.george@metaart.org> Arden: Wow! Thank you for this & the addendum! -- George All, Any other comments, translations or Perl programs? -- George On Sunday 09 February 2003 7:47 pm, Arden Schaeffer wrote: > Arden replies: > Auf deutsch: Im Bier Freiheit. > In interlingua: In cervesa le libertate. > In Lingua latina: In cervesa libertas. > En espa?ol (html: español): En cerveza la libertad. > En fran?ais : En cervoise (ou en bi?re) la libert?. --but folks using > non-Macintosh computers may be unable to read this, so it's better said > in html: En français : En cervoise (ou en bière) la > liberté. > > On Sunday, Feb 9, 2003, at 19:19 US/Pacific, George Woolley wrote: > > I really like the concept of Free Software. > > The reality is even better. > > I understand that the free in Free Software is > > referring to Free as in Freedom > > as contrasted with Free as in Beer > > (when taken as referring to price). > > But I wonder ... > > > > There is another sense of Free as in Beer > > that I think is relevant to the Beer Sig. > > The other sense is freeing of inhibitions, etc. > > This sense is not unrelated to the saying > > "in vino veritas". > > Similarly, one might say "in beer freedom". > > > > /===============================\ > > Arden, can you translate that > > into Latin and French for us? > > Belden, can you translate that into > > Chinese and Spanish? > > Mike, would Tia be willing to translate that > > into Russian? > > What other languages do people know? > > German? > > Who will do Pig Latin? > > Anyone know any other languages? > > How about "Free as in Beer"? > > \===============================/ > > > > Comments? > > Translations? > > Perl Programs? > > > > Could we add either of the following > > to the Beer Sig Page: > > > > "free as in beer" > > "in beer freedom" or translation(s) thereof > > > > /===============================\ > > Anyone know the first reference > > to the phrase "free as in beer" > > in connection with software > > you can get without paying $? > > Anyone have a reference to a place > > where Richard Stallman uses this exact phrase? > > \===============================/ From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 9 22:37:19 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Beverages at Tuesday Meeting Message-ID: <200302092037.19896.george@metaart.org> Arden asked me to post the following: ------------------- George: Please post the following on the perl-group mailing list: For Tuesday evening, i have: apple juice, coffee, decaf, Clausthaler near-beer, Sierra Nevada pale ale, and the following beers: Budweiser, Coor , Henry Weinhardt, Michelob, Miller. if this choice fails to delight you, then you'll have to bring your own bottle. ~Arden --------------- Note: For direction,etc for the meeting see: http://oakland.pm.org From cajun at cajuninc.com Sun Feb 9 23:46:45 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> References: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200302092146.45796.cajun@cajuninc.com> "Free as in beer" Bezplotno kak piva - Russian (free as beer) Upasoa rogorts ludy - Georgian "In beer freedom" Svaboda v piva - Russian Ludys tavesuplaba - Georgian Tia will be attending the meeting on Tuesday (I think). M On Sunday 09 February 2003 19:19, George Woolley wrote: > I really like the concept of Free Software. > The reality is even better. > I understand that the free in Free Software is > referring to Free as in Freedom > as contrasted with Free as in Beer > (when taken as referring to price). > But I wonder ... > > There is another sense of Free as in Beer > that I think is relevant to the Beer Sig. > The other sense is freeing of inhibitions, etc. > This sense is not unrelated to the saying > "in vino veritas". > Similarly, one might say "in beer freedom". > > /===============================\ > Arden, can you translate that > into Latin and French for us? > Belden, can you translate that into > Chinese and Spanish? > Mike, would Tia be willing to translate that > into Russian? > What other languages do people know? > German? > Who will do Pig Latin? > Anyone know any other languages? > How about "Free as in Beer"? > \===============================/ > > Comments? > Translations? > Perl Programs? > > Could we add either of the following > to the Beer Sig Page: > > "free as in beer" > "in beer freedom" or translation(s) thereof > > /===============================\ > Anyone know the first reference > to the phrase "free as in beer" > in connection with software > you can get without paying $? > Anyone have a reference to a place > where Richard Stallman uses this exact phrase? > \===============================/ > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- IBM: Ifs Buts Maybys 21:15:01 up 23 days, 4:14, 5 users, load average: 0.02, 0.21, 0.72 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From cajun at cajuninc.com Mon Feb 10 00:18:47 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] New mailing list Message-ID: <200302092218.47266.cajun@cajuninc.com> Sig-beer-east-bay now has a mailing list. I have already subscribed the three 'founding members". If you're interested, you can sign up at: http://rattler.cajuninc.com/mailman/listinfo/sbeb -- Congratulations! You are the one-millionth user to log into our system. 22:10:01 up 23 days, 5:09, 6 users, load average: 0.02, 0.15, 0.23 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 10 00:32:53 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <200302092146.45796.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> <200302092146.45796.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200302092232.53147.george@metaart.org> Mike, Great! Please thank Tia for the translations. Well, that will be kool if Tia comes. -- George On Sunday 09 February 2003 9:46 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > "Free as in beer" > > Bezplotno kak piva - Russian (free as beer) > Upasoa rogorts ludy - Georgian > > "In beer freedom" > > Svaboda v piva - Russian > Ludys tavesuplaba - Georgian > > > Tia will be attending the meeting on Tuesday (I think). > > M > > On Sunday 09 February 2003 19:19, George Woolley wrote: > > I really like the concept of Free Software. > > The reality is even better. > > I understand that the free in Free Software is > > referring to Free as in Freedom > > as contrasted with Free as in Beer > > (when taken as referring to price). > > But I wonder ... > > > > There is another sense of Free as in Beer > > that I think is relevant to the Beer Sig. > > The other sense is freeing of inhibitions, etc. > > This sense is not unrelated to the saying > > "in vino veritas". > > Similarly, one might say "in beer freedom". > > > > /===============================\ > > Arden, can you translate that > > into Latin and French for us? > > Belden, can you translate that into > > Chinese and Spanish? > > Mike, would Tia be willing to translate that > > into Russian? > > What other languages do people know? > > German? > > Who will do Pig Latin? > > Anyone know any other languages? > > How about "Free as in Beer"? > > \===============================/ > > > > Comments? > > Translations? > > Perl Programs? > > > > Could we add either of the following > > to the Beer Sig Page: > > > > "free as in beer" > > "in beer freedom" or translation(s) thereof > > > > /===============================\ > > Anyone know the first reference > > to the phrase "free as in beer" > > in connection with software > > you can get without paying $? > > Anyone have a reference to a place > > where Richard Stallman uses this exact phrase? > > \===============================/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Oakland mailing list > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From cajun at cajuninc.com Mon Feb 10 00:37:01 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <200302092232.53147.george@metaart.org> References: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> <200302092146.45796.cajun@cajuninc.com> <200302092232.53147.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <200302092237.01541.cajun@cajuninc.com> Done. Message forwarded to Tia. M On Sunday 09 February 2003 22:32, George Woolley wrote: > Mike, > Great! > Please thank Tia for the translations. > > Well, that will be kool if Tia comes. > -- George > > On Sunday 09 February 2003 9:46 pm, M.Lewis wrote: > > "Free as in beer" > > > > Bezplotno kak piva - Russian (free as beer) > > Upasoa rogorts ludy - Georgian > > > > "In beer freedom" > > > > Svaboda v piva - Russian > > Ludys tavesuplaba - Georgian > > > > > > Tia will be attending the meeting on Tuesday (I think). > > > > M > > > > On Sunday 09 February 2003 19:19, George Woolley wrote: > > > I really like the concept of Free Software. > > > The reality is even better. > > > I understand that the free in Free Software is > > > referring to Free as in Freedom > > > as contrasted with Free as in Beer > > > (when taken as referring to price). > > > But I wonder ... > > > > > > There is another sense of Free as in Beer > > > that I think is relevant to the Beer Sig. > > > The other sense is freeing of inhibitions, etc. > > > This sense is not unrelated to the saying > > > "in vino veritas". > > > Similarly, one might say "in beer freedom". > > > > > > /===============================\ > > > Arden, can you translate that > > > into Latin and French for us? > > > Belden, can you translate that into > > > Chinese and Spanish? > > > Mike, would Tia be willing to translate that > > > into Russian? > > > What other languages do people know? > > > German? > > > Who will do Pig Latin? > > > Anyone know any other languages? > > > How about "Free as in Beer"? > > > \===============================/ > > > > > > Comments? > > > Translations? > > > Perl Programs? > > > > > > Could we add either of the following > > > to the Beer Sig Page: > > > > > > "free as in beer" > > > "in beer freedom" or translation(s) thereof > > > > > > /===============================\ > > > Anyone know the first reference > > > to the phrase "free as in beer" > > > in connection with software > > > you can get without paying $? > > > Anyone have a reference to a place > > > where Richard Stallman uses this exact phrase? > > > \===============================/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Oakland mailing list > > > Oakland@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland -- Your e-mail has been returned due to insufficient voltage. 22:35:01 up 23 days, 5:34, 6 users, load average: 0.21, 0.42, 0.32 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From cajun at cajuninc.com Mon Feb 10 00:51:43 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <200302092146.45796.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> <200302092146.45796.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200302092251.43516.cajun@cajuninc.com> Additions: "In beer freedom" Svaboda v piva - OR - Pivnaia svoboda (Russian) Ludys tavesupleba - OR - Ludshia tavisupleba (Georgian) -- Futuristic: It will only run on a next generation supercomputer. 22:45:00 up 23 days, 5:44, 6 users, load average: 0.40, 0.16, 0.19 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From cajun at cajuninc.com Mon Feb 10 01:05:03 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Translations ? Message-ID: <200302092305.03463.cajun@cajuninc.com> Some enterprising individual MIGHT write a perl script using LWP to get these translations from places like : http://world.altavista.com/ A good example for our Tuesday meeting ? M -- IBM: Indigestion Bothers Me 23:00:00 up 23 days, 5:59, 6 users, load average: 1.15, 0.34, 0.18 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From cajun at cajuninc.com Mon Feb 10 01:18:56 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Translations ? In-Reply-To: <200302092305.03463.cajun@cajuninc.com> References: <200302092305.03463.cajun@cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <200302092318.56059.cajun@cajuninc.com> Another possiblity would be: http://www.google.com/language_tools?q=babel&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8 M On Sunday 09 February 2003 23:05, M.Lewis wrote: > Some enterprising individual MIGHT write a perl script using LWP to get > these translations from places like : http://world.altavista.com/ > > A good example for our Tuesday meeting ? > > M -- System going down at 5 pm to install scheduler bug. 23:15:01 up 23 days, 6:14, 6 users, load average: 0.15, 0.14, 0.16 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 11 09:20:12 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Meeting Tonight! Message-ID: <200302110720.12244.george@metaart.org> I'm looking forward to seeing many of you at Arden's tonight. It looks to be an interesting meeting. From extasia at extasia.org Tue Feb 11 16:41:42 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Free as In Beer In-Reply-To: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org>; from george@metaart.org on Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 07:19:57PM -0800 References: <200302091919.57701.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <20030211144142.A16776@gerasimov.net> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030211/34e10e37/attachment.bin From extasia at extasia.org Tue Feb 11 18:58:24 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] SIG-BEER-WEST this Saturday, 2/15 in San Francisco Message-ID: <20030211165824.B19859@gerasimov.net> Sure would love to see some opug faces there... :-) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 SIG-beer-west Saturday, February 15, 2002 at 6:00pm San Francisco, CA Beer. Mental stimulation. *** This month: sig-beer-west's first birthday! *** This event: * Saturday, 02/15/2003, 6:00pm, at the Toronado, San Francisco Coming events (third Saturdays): * Saturday, 03/15/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 04/19/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 05/17/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 06/21/2003, 6:00pm San Francisco's next social event for computer sysadmins and their friends, sig-beer-west, will take place on Saturday, February 15, 2002 at the [1]Toronado in San Francisco, CA. The Toronado has an impressive selection of [2]draught and [3]bottled beer. Festivities will start at 6:00pm and continue until we've all left. The Toronado has an excellent selection of beer, but no food. It is perfectly okay to score food from neighboring establishments and bring it back to the Toronado to eat. Also, after we are all full with beer we may roam off to a nearby restaurant. [1] http://www.toronado.com/ [2] http://www.toronado.com/draft.htm [3] http://www.toronado.com/bottles.htm Everyone is welcome at this event. We mean it! Please feel free to forward this information and to invite friends, co-workers, and others who might enjoy lifting a glass with interesting folks from all over the place. (O.K., you do have to be of legal drinking age to attend.) For directions to the Toronado, please use the [4]excellent directions at their website. When you show up at the Toronado, you should look for some kind of botched sig-beer-west sign. We will try to make it obvious who we are. :-) [4] http://www.toronado.com/map.htm Note: Check the tables in the back room for us if you don't see us at the tables by the bar. The back room is back and to the left. Any Comments, Questions, or Suggestions of Things to Do Later on That Evening ... email [5]Fiid or [6]David. [5] mailto:fiid@fiid.net [6] mailto:extasia@mindspring.com sig-beer-west FAQ 1. Q: Your announcement says "computer sysadmins and their friends". How do I know if I'm a friend of a computer sysadmin? I don't even know what one is. A: You're a friend of a computer sysadmin if you can find the sig-beer-west sign at this month's sig-beer-west event. 2. Q: I'm not really a beer person. In fact I'm interested in hanging out, but not in drinking. Would I be welcome? A: Absolutely! The point is to enjoy each others' company. Please do join us. 3. Q: Is parking difficult around the Toronado, like maybe I should factor this into my travel time? A: Yes. ______________________________________________________________________ sig-beer-west was started in February 2001 when a couple Washington, D.C. based systems administrators who moved to the San Francisco Bay area wanted to continue a [7]dc-sage tradition, sig-beer, which is described in dc-sage web space as: SIG-beer, as in "Special Interest Group - Beer" ala ACM, or as in "send the BEER signal to that process". The original SIG-beer gathering takes place in Washington DC, usually on the first Saturday night of the month. [7] http://www.dc-sage.org/ ______________________________________________________________________ Last modified: $Date: 2003-02-01 00:33:11-08 $ - -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+SZkyPh0M9c/OpdARApRrAJ9ZZn6c19lje8QwrUg5YpC0KjRlrQCgmSLD uALJV6kGUkErdL4+1/S3CJc= =3Isg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george at metaart.org Wed Feb 12 14:12:15 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay In-Reply-To: <3E40542B.B916A222@calacademy.org> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <3E3FEE9D.50601@iii.com> <3E40542B.B916A222@calacademy.org> Message-ID: <200302121212.15248.george@metaart.org> My understanding is that there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm Is this correct? If not, what is correct? From blyman at iii.com Wed Feb 12 15:00:55 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <3E3FEE9D.50601@iii.com> <3E40542B.B916A222@calacademy.org> <200302121212.15248.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E4AB607.1000802@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > My understanding is > that there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: > > at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland > on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm > > Is this correct? > If not, what is correct? Never fear, George, just ask Perl! ==== #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; use Test::More tests => 1; # T::M is standard w/5.8.0 my $understanding=<<'POSIT'; there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm POSIT if ( ! ok($understanding, $understanding) ) { What->is_correct('?'); } { package What; sub is_correct { print "Who knows" . pop() . "\n" } } __END__ output: 1..1 ok 1 - # there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: # # at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland # on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm # ==== :) See you all on Thursday 20 Feb, 7:30 @ Cato's on Piedmont. Cato's is a short walk from the Citibank and C of O public parking. E-mail me off-list if you need a ride to/from BART. Belden From george at metaart.org Wed Feb 12 15:18:57 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay In-Reply-To: <3E4AB607.1000802@iii.com> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <200302121212.15248.george@metaart.org> <3E4AB607.1000802@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302121318.57839.george@metaart.org> Belden, I shall heed your wise counsel. I have learned to listen when Perl monks and their programs speak. -- George On Wednesday 12 February 2003 1:00 pm, Belden Lyman wrote: > George Woolley wrote: > > My understanding is > > that there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: > > > > at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland > > on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm > > > > Is this correct? > > If not, what is correct? > > Never fear, George, just ask Perl! > > ==== > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > use warnings; > use Test::More tests => 1; # T::M is standard w/5.8.0 > > my $understanding=<<'POSIT'; > > there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: > > at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland > on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm > > POSIT > > if ( ! ok($understanding, $understanding) ) { > What->is_correct('?'); > } > > { > package What; > sub is_correct { print "Who knows" . pop() . "\n" } > } > > __END__ > output: > 1..1 > ok 1 - > # there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: > # > # at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland > # on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm > # > > ==== > > :) See you all on Thursday 20 Feb, 7:30 @ Cato's on Piedmont. > > Cato's is a short walk from the Citibank and C of O public > parking. E-mail me off-list if you need a ride to/from BART. > > Belden > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Wed Feb 12 23:22:23 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] February Meeting: after Message-ID: <200302122122.23413.george@metaart.org> Thanks to Dan Meriwether for giving the talk and answering questions. Thanks to Michael McMillan (LMI.net) for supporting Dan and making everything work. Thanks to Arden for hosting the meeting. Thanks to all 12 people who were present at the meeting. From george at metaart.org Thu Feb 13 14:15:31 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Regular Meetings Message-ID: <200302131215.31302.george@metaart.org> Regular Meetings ---------------------- We have a regular meeting time, that is, 2nd Tuesdays from 7:30pm to 9:30pm. But we haven't yet settled on a regular meeting place. As far as I can see we have three obvious options for a regular meeting place: * Village Restaurant where we had our third meeting. (my impression is that we would be able to meet there regularly.) * Arden's home where we had our fourth meeting. (Arden has been explicit that we can meet there regularly if that's what the group wishes.) * David Fetter's place where we have not met as yet. (I think, but am not certain, that we could meet there regularly.) From david at fetter.org Thu Feb 13 14:17:49 2003 From: david at fetter.org (David Fetter) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Regular Meetings In-Reply-To: <200302131215.31302.george@metaart.org> References: <200302131215.31302.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <20030213201748.GF30934@fetter.org> On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 12:15:31PM -0800, George Woolley wrote: > Regular Meetings > ---------------------- > We have a regular meeting time, that is, > 2nd Tuesdays from 7:30pm to 9:30pm. > But we haven't yet settled on > a regular meeting place. > > As far as I can see we have three obvious options > for a regular meeting place: > > * Village Restaurant where we had our third meeting. > (my impression is that we would be able to meet > there regularly.) We could, but their meeting space ain't great, and the food is a long way from spectacular. If my vote counts, we don't return there. > * Arden's home where we had our fourth meeting. > (Arden has been explicit that we can meet there regularly > if that's what the group wishes.) > * David Fetter's place where we have not met as yet. > (I think, but am not certain, > that we could meet there regularly.) Everybody's welcome here--that's part of the reason I got this space in the 1st place. :) Cheers, D -- David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 510 893 6100 cell: +1 415 235 3778 From extasia at extasia.org Thu Feb 13 14:26:13 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Regular Meetings In-Reply-To: <20030213201748.GF30934@fetter.org>; from david@fetter.org on Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 12:17:49PM -0800 References: <200302131215.31302.george@metaart.org> <20030213201748.GF30934@fetter.org> Message-ID: <20030213122613.D19248@gerasimov.net> Greetings! At 2003/02/13/12:17 -0800 David Fetter wrote: > > * David Fetter's place where we have not met as yet. > > (I think, but am not certain, > > that we could meet there regularly.) > > Everybody's welcome here--that's part of the reason I got this space > in the 1st place. :) I can't comment on Arden's, 'cause I've never been there, but there is a *lot* of space at David Fetter's. David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030213/0dced424/attachment.bin From george at metaart.org Thu Feb 13 14:34:35 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Regular Meetings In-Reply-To: <20030213201748.GF30934@fetter.org> References: <200302131215.31302.george@metaart.org> <20030213201748.GF30934@fetter.org> Message-ID: <200302131234.35239.george@metaart.org> Thanks for the incredibly quick reply. Your view certainly counts. On Thursday 13 February 2003 12:17 pm, David Fetter wrote: > On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 12:15:31PM -0800, George Woolley wrote: > > Regular Meetings > > ---------------------- > > We have a regular meeting time, that is, > > 2nd Tuesdays from 7:30pm to 9:30pm. > > But we haven't yet settled on > > a regular meeting place. > > > > As far as I can see we have three obvious options > > for a regular meeting place: > > > > * Village Restaurant where we had our third meeting. > > (my impression is that we would be able to meet > > there regularly.) > > We could, but their meeting space ain't great, and the food is a long > way from spectacular. If my vote counts, we don't return there. > > > * Arden's home where we had our fourth meeting. > > (Arden has been explicit that we can meet there regularly > > if that's what the group wishes.) > > * David Fetter's place where we have not met as yet. > > (I think, but am not certain, > > that we could meet there regularly.) > > Everybody's welcome here--that's part of the reason I got this space > in the 1st place. :) > > Cheers, > D From george at metaart.org Sun Feb 16 10:50:35 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Fwd: Newsfactor: Perl 6 articles Message-ID: <200302160850.35967.george@metaart.org> The following message is forwarded from Wellington.pm. To me the two part article referenced here is somewhat interesting, and I found myself going back to: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/ What are your preferred sources for info on Perl 6? Other thoughts? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Newsfactor: Perl 6 articles Date: 16 Feb 2003 22:13:12 +1300 From: Dave Moskovitz To: wellington-pm-list@pm.org Aardvark recently linked to these articles in Newsfactor, which describe some of the stuff coming up in Perl 6. http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/20736.html and http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/20748.html Note that Damian Conway and NZ's own Nat Torkington are quoted in the article. Enjoy Dave -- Dave Moskovitz Director, Thinktank Consulting Ltd. dave@thinktank.co.nz * www.thinktank.co.nz Tel: +64 27 220 2202 * AIM: nznudnik ------------------------------------------------------- From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 17 02:07:50 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Puzzle Message-ID: <200302170007.50969.george@metaart.org> Here's a puzzle of sorts. A Perl program was shattered and all the letters ended up on the floor except the first line which was unharmed. Somehow in the confusion, all the space characters were destroyed. Noone knows how many there were originally. (And noone cares.) Some anal-obsessive nerd (me) has organized the letters as follows with the hope that someone will reconstruct the program. !"",;\bdeeehilllnnnoprt Your mission, should you accept it, is to reconstruct the program for the anal obsessive nerd. Hint: It is known that the original program was simple enough that everyone in the Perl group would be capable of reading or even writing it. Trust me on this. Request: Please send your solution(s) to george@metaart.org, thus giving someone else a chance to solve it. From blyman at iii.com Mon Feb 17 11:15:57 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Puzzle References: <200302170007.50969.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E5118CD.8070803@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > Here's a puzzle of sorts. > heh, that's quite cute. From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 17 13:19:01 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Puzzle [solved] Message-ID: <200302171119.01314.george@metaart.org> Thanks to those who responded. The shattered program has been reconstructed. The scattered letters have been returned to their rightful places. The mission is complete. And all is right with the world. -- George From blyman at iii.com Mon Feb 17 18:19:08 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Puzzle [solved] References: <200302171119.01314.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E517BFC.7010004@iii.com> % perl $_ = '!"",;\bdeeehilllnnnoprt'; $k = 'sfvlwtmphnqgcijodrukabe'; $re= ('(.)') x split //; /$re/; %dc=map{$_,${++$i} }split//,$k; $st.=$dc{$_} for sort keys %dc; print'ans: ',$st,"\n"; eval$st; __END__ ;) Belden George Woolley wrote: > Thanks to those who responded. > The shattered program has been reconstructed. > The scattered letters have been > returned to their rightful places. > The mission is complete. > And all is right with the world. > > -- George > > > From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 17 19:30:50 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Puzzle [solved] In-Reply-To: <3E517BFC.7010004@iii.com> References: <200302171119.01314.george@metaart.org> <3E517BFC.7010004@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302171730.50910.george@metaart.org> Belden, Hm, that's an interesting way to approach the puzzle! Well, I did figure it was a tad easy for you. :) -- George On Monday 17 February 2003 4:19 pm, Belden Lyman wrote: > % perl > > $_ = '!"",;\bdeeehilllnnnoprt'; > $k = 'sfvlwtmphnqgcijodrukabe'; > $re= ('(.)') x split //; /$re/; > %dc=map{$_,${++$i} }split//,$k; > $st.=$dc{$_} for sort keys %dc; > print'ans: ',$st,"\n"; eval$st; > __END__ > > ;) Belden > > George Woolley wrote: > > Thanks to those who responded. > > The shattered program has been reconstructed. > > The scattered letters have been > > returned to their rightful places. > > The mission is complete. > > And all is right with the world. > > > > -- George From george at metaart.org Mon Feb 17 20:41:16 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] GNU and recursion Message-ID: <200302171841.16408.george@metaart.org> My understanding from the GNU project site is that: GNU is a recursive acronym for "GNU's Not Unix'" So I'm thinking: GNU(0) equals GNU GNU(1) equals GNU's Not Unix My first question: what do GNU(2), GNU(3), etc. equal? And my second question: what would the Perl function look like for generating the values of GNU(0), GNU(1), GNU(2), etc.? From blyman at iii.com Tue Feb 18 10:51:48 2003 From: blyman at iii.com (Belden Lyman) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] GNU and recursion References: <200302171841.16408.george@metaart.org> Message-ID: <3E5264A4.1040907@iii.com> George Woolley wrote: > My understanding from the GNU project site is that: > GNU is a recursive acronym for "GNU's Not Unix'" > > So I'm thinking: > GNU(0) equals GNU > GNU(1) equals GNU's Not Unix > > My first question: what do > GNU(2), GNU(3), etc. equal? > > And my second question: > what would the Perl function look like > for generating the values of GNU(0), GNU(1), GNU(2), etc.? > > An iterative solution: #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; print gnu_i('GNU',2),"\n"; sub gnu_i { my ($str, $itr) = @_; for ( 0..$itr ) { $str =~ s/GNU/(GNU's Not Unix)/; } $str; } __END__ A recursive solution: #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use warnings; print gnu_r('GNU',2), "\n"; sub gnu_r { my ( $str, $itr ) = @_; if ( $itr < 0 ) { return $str; } $str =~ s/GNU/(GNU's Not Unix)/; return gnu_r( $str, --$itr ); } __END__ Belden From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 18 14:13:33 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] GNU and recursion In-Reply-To: <3E5264A4.1040907@iii.com> References: <200302171841.16408.george@metaart.org> <3E5264A4.1040907@iii.com> Message-ID: <200302181213.33055.george@metaart.org> Belden, An iterative solution and a recursive solution. kool! And the parentheses in the output are instructive. nice! If I understand your solution, I gather your answer to question one is: GNU(0) equals GNU GNU(1) equals GNU's Not Unix's Not Unix GNU(2) equals GNU's Not Unix's Not Unix's Not Unix GNU(3) equals GNU's Not Unix's Not Unix's Not Unix's Not Unix ... Do you or anyone else have alternative suggestions for answers to question one? -- George On Tuesday 18 February 2003 8:51 am, Belden Lyman wrote: > George Woolley wrote: > > My understanding from the GNU project site is that: > > GNU is a recursive acronym for "GNU's Not Unix'" > > > > So I'm thinking: > > GNU(0) equals GNU > > GNU(1) equals GNU's Not Unix > > > > My first question: what do > > GNU(2), GNU(3), etc. equal? > > > > And my second question: > > what would the Perl function look like > > for generating the values of GNU(0), GNU(1), GNU(2), etc.? > > An iterative solution: > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > use warnings; > > print gnu_i('GNU',2),"\n"; > > sub gnu_i { > my ($str, $itr) = @_; > for ( 0..$itr ) { > $str =~ s/GNU/(GNU's Not Unix)/; > } > $str; > } > __END__ > > > > A recursive solution: > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > use warnings; > > print gnu_r('GNU',2), "\n"; > > sub gnu_r { > my ( $str, $itr ) = @_; > if ( $itr < 0 ) { > return $str; > } > $str =~ s/GNU/(GNU's Not Unix)/; > return gnu_r( $str, --$itr ); > } > __END__ > > > Belden > > _______________________________________________ > Oakland mailing list > Oakland@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/oakland From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 18 21:00:42 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Camelot.pm: new, non-geographical Message-ID: <200302181900.42475.george@metaart.org> name: Camelot.pm status: new, just barely exists. does have a FAQ that provides some info about it. URL: http://camelot.pm.org/ From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 18 21:07:58 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Many Posts! Message-ID: <200302181907.58801.george@metaart.org> There have been more posts on Oakland.pm this month than in all of any previous month. The previous high was in November. From extasia at extasia.org Thu Feb 20 13:10:58 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:29 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay In-Reply-To: <3E4AB607.1000802@iii.com>; from blyman@iii.com on Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 01:00:55PM -0800 References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <3E3FEE9D.50601@iii.com> <3E40542B.B916A222@calacademy.org> <200302121212.15248.george@metaart.org> <3E4AB607.1000802@iii.com> Message-ID: <20030220111058.A13805@gerasimov.net> Greetings! At 2003/02/12/13:00 -0800 Belden Lyman wrote: > # there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: > # > # at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland > # on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm So at which bart station do I have to be at what time to get a ride to sig-beer-east-bay tonight? Thanks! David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030220/6ad24b4e/attachment.bin From cajun at cajuninc.com Thu Feb 20 14:47:33 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (cajun@cajuninc.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay In-Reply-To: <20030220111058.A13805@gerasimov.net> References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <3E3FEE9D.50601@iii.com> <3E40542B.B916A222@calacademy.org> <200302121212.15248.george@metaart.org> <3E4AB607.1000802@iii.com> <20030220111058.A13805@gerasimov.net> Message-ID: <33513.206.180.228.114.1045774053.squirrel@rattler.cajuninc.com> David, I can likely pick you up. I can't be certain until around 5pm or so though. Tia will not be at sig-beer this time. She has company from NY. At any rate, let's talk around 430 or so. Orinda BART station would be the most convenient for me. Mike > Greetings! > > At 2003/02/12/13:00 -0800 Belden Lyman wrote: >> # there is a sig-beer-east-bay get together: >> # >> # at: Cato's Ale House, 3891 Piedmont Ave, Oakland >> # on: Thursday the 20th at 7:30pm > > So at which bart station do I have to be at what time to get a ride to > sig-beer-east-bay tonight? > > Thanks! > David > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > *** > Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ > Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ From extasia at extasia.org Thu Feb 20 14:59:36 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] sig-beer-east-bay In-Reply-To: <33513.206.180.228.114.1045774053.squirrel@rattler.cajuninc.com>; from cajun@cajuninc.com on Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:47:33PM -0800 References: <3E231E1A.8080003@iii.com> <3E3FEE9D.50601@iii.com> <3E40542B.B916A222@calacademy.org> <200302121212.15248.george@metaart.org> <3E4AB607.1000802@iii.com> <20030220111058.A13805@gerasimov.net> <33513.206.180.228.114.1045774053.squirrel@rattler.cajuninc.com> Message-ID: <20030220125936.C15762@gerasimov.net> Mike, At 2003/02/20/12:47 -0800 cajun@cajuninc.com wrote: > David, I can likely pick you up. I can't be certain until around 5pm or so Thanks for the offer Mike! I was able to get a ride. David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030220/9f1f05be/attachment.bin From extasia at extasia.org Fri Feb 21 05:51:28 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Log::Monkey Message-ID: <20030221035128.A26581@gerasimov.net> Greetings! The second public release of Log::Monkey is available. DESCRIPTION Log::Monkey provides routines to log information to an open file handle. There is a set of logging routines that do the actual logging, a set of state routines which modify various state values used by the package, and a set of utility routines which provide functionality to perform various tasks which prepare for logging and/or create logging meta-information. Please see: http://www.extasia.org/code/Log::Monkey.html Feedback is welcome (encouraged, in fact). David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030221/8790d76c/attachment.bin From george at metaart.org Fri Feb 21 22:55:17 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] O'Reilly User Group Newsletter: February 21, 2003 Message-ID: <200302212055.17866.george@metaart.org> We have received a newsletter from the O'Reilly UG Program. You may want to take a look at it at: http://oakland.pm.org/oreilly/2003/newsletter_20030221.txt Let me know if you want to review a particular O'Reilly book, especially if you see it in the newsletter. I may be able to get you a review copy. From cajun at cajuninc.com Tue Feb 25 04:34:54 2003 From: cajun at cajuninc.com (M.Lewis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Todays UserFriendly image! Message-ID: <200302250234.54704.cajun@cajuninc.com> -- Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. - Kulawiec 02:30:01 up 38 days, 9:30, 5 users, load average: 1.60, 1.41, 1.37 Linux Registered User #241685 http://counter.li.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: userfriendly.gif Type: image/gif Size: 26690 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/oakland/attachments/20030225/0dd6a337/userfriendly.gif From george at metaart.org Tue Feb 25 16:29:26 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Review of "Open Sources" Message-ID: <200302251429.26643.george@metaart.org> There's a review of "Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution" at: http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/open.html Any comments? ..................................................................... Anyone want to read "Free as in Freedom" when Arden finishes? From george at metaart.org Thu Feb 27 16:55:30 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] Review of Safari Bookshelf Message-ID: <200302271455.31023.george@metaart.org> There's a review of the O'Reilly Network Safari Bookshelf at: http://oakland.pm.org/reviews/safari.html Safari gives you access on-line to over 1000 computer related books. For example, I used it recently to select a book to read and review. I read the book using Safari, and then, while writing the review, I did a lot of searches on Safari to find passages on particular subjects, etc. Any comments? From george at metaart.org Fri Feb 28 21:30:44 2003 From: george at metaart.org (George Woolley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:33:30 2004 Subject: [oak perl] New Newsletter: 2003-02-28 Message-ID: <200302281930.44122.george@metaart.org> at http://oakland.pm.org/oreilly/2003/newsletter_20030228.txt