From matt at omega.org Thu Nov 2 22:03:56 2006 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 00:03:56 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] FYI: Chicago Perl Hackathon 1 week away Message-ID: <6DC47BC1-23C5-4108-83C4-06BC8A8C45E8@omega.org> My faithful Google Calendar just reminded me the Chicago Perl Hackathon is 1 week away, starting next Friday, so I thought I would remind you too. -Matt Johnson ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Chicago Perl Mongers and The Perl Foundation are proud to announce the Fall 2006 Chicago Hackathon, the weekend of November 10-12, 2006 in suburban Crystal Lake, IL. It will be a round-the- clock weekend of programming on Perl-related projects with your colleagues in the open source community. Dozens of programmers from the open source community in the midwest, as well as others from around the US, will be getting together to share ideas, work on code, and move their Perl-related projects forward. From andy at petdance.com Thu Nov 2 22:53:08 2006 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 00:53:08 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] FYI: Chicago Perl Hackathon 1 week away In-Reply-To: <6DC47BC1-23C5-4108-83C4-06BC8A8C45E8@omega.org> References: <6DC47BC1-23C5-4108-83C4-06BC8A8C45E8@omega.org> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2006, at 12:03 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > My faithful Google Calendar just reminded me the Chicago Perl > Hackathon is 1 week away, starting next Friday, so I thought I would > remind you too. -Matt Johnson Yeah, if you're gonna come, please tell us NOW. Sign up on the wiki page. These last-minute sign-ups are makin' me crazy! :-) -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From matt at omega.org Thu Nov 2 23:21:33 2006 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 01:21:33 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] FYI: Chicago Perl Hackathon 1 week away In-Reply-To: References: <6DC47BC1-23C5-4108-83C4-06BC8A8C45E8@omega.org> Message-ID: <8616EB1C-C8EE-44D2-8FC1-E94D91E3F054@omega.org> Sign up page... http://rakudo.org/hackathon-chicago/index.cgi?Attendees Start page... http://hackathon.info/ On Nov 3, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Andy Lester wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2006, at 12:03 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >> My faithful Google Calendar just reminded me the Chicago Perl >> Hackathon is 1 week away, starting next Friday, so I thought I would >> remind you too. -Matt Johnson > > Yeah, if you're gonna come, please tell us NOW. Sign up on the > wiki page. These last-minute sign-ups are makin' me crazy! :-) > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > From gary.vollink at gmail.com Fri Nov 3 10:48:51 2006 From: gary.vollink at gmail.com (Gary Vollink) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:48:51 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Meeting - Nov 8? Message-ID: Are we going to meet on Nov 8? From peter at peknet.com Fri Nov 3 11:46:45 2006 From: peter at peknet.com (Peter Karman) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:46:45 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Meeting - Nov 8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <454B9CA5.6090307@peknet.com> Gary Vollink scribbled on 11/3/06 12:48 PM: > Are we going to meet on Nov 8? If we do, I can do 15 minutes on Catalyst. -- Peter Karman . http://peknet.com/ . peter at peknet.com From ian at indecorous.com Tue Nov 7 12:35:49 2006 From: ian at indecorous.com (Ian Malpass) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:35:49 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Meeting - Nov 8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4550EE25.9050204@indecorous.com> Gary Vollink wrote: > Are we going to meet on Nov 8? Er. I did promise a technical meeting didn't I? Sorry, I'm being a bit useless about this tech meeting organising mularky. I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle, etc. Realistically, I'm not going to have a talk ready for tomorrow night, and I haven't coerced enough other people to pad the bill either. Oh, and I haven't booked the venue. I was going to suggest next Wednesday, but past attempts to schedule things at the last minute have been abysmal failures. So Espresso Royale tomorrow night for all those interested, and absolutely positively definitely no really a technical meet in December. Hopefully Peter will be able to do his 15 minutes on Catalyst. I'll waffle about OO Perl. Dave mentioned talking about Haskell. Other's will volunteer, I'm sure. Apologies once more :( Ian From peter at peknet.com Wed Nov 8 06:43:36 2006 From: peter at peknet.com (Peter Karman) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:43:36 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Meeting - Nov 8? In-Reply-To: <4550EE25.9050204@indecorous.com> References: <4550EE25.9050204@indecorous.com> Message-ID: <4551ED18.2000703@peknet.com> Ian Malpass scribbled on 11/7/06 2:35 PM: > > So Espresso Royale tomorrow night for all those interested, and > absolutely positively definitely no really a technical meet in December. > Hopefully Peter will be able to do his 15 minutes on Catalyst. I'll > waffle about OO Perl. Dave mentioned talking about Haskell. Other's will > volunteer, I'm sure. > I'll try and make it out tonight regardless. I won't be able to come in Dec 'cause we're having another kid between now and then. -- Peter Karman . http://peknet.com/ . peter at peknet.com From eeklund at umn.edu Wed Nov 8 07:02:25 2006 From: eeklund at umn.edu (Eric Eklund) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:02:25 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? Message-ID: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different frameworks will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone have working experience with either of these frameworks and session management? If so, would you be willing to share an example. I have searched the Web for tutorials that contain the features I am looking for and have come up fairly empty handed. At this point, I am siding toward CGI::App due to the perceived learning curve of Catalyst. Eric Eklund Adaptive Technology Associate Computer Accommodations Program University of Minnesota McNamara Alumni Center 200 Oak St. SE Suite 180 Minneapolis MN 55455-2002 P: (612) 624-3303 F: (612) 626-9654 http://cap.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/mpls-pm/attachments/20061108/a0e9cf5a/attachment.html From peter at peknet.com Wed Nov 8 07:34:04 2006 From: peter at peknet.com (Peter Karman) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 09:34:04 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> Message-ID: <4551F8EC.6070109@peknet.com> Eric Eklund scribbled on 11/8/06 9:02 AM: > I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either > CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different frameworks > will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone have working > experience with either of these frameworks and session management? If > so, would you be willing to share an example. I have searched the Web > for tutorials that contain the features I am looking for and have come > up fairly empty handed. At this point, I am siding toward CGI::App due > to the perceived learning curve of Catalyst. > well since I can't do my Cat talk tonight, I'll take a stab at this. My 2c on whether to use CGI::App or Catalyst is that it depends on how you intend to deploy your application. If it's going to be in a shared or non-mod_perl environment, then go with CGI::App. If you can run under mod_perl, then Cat is a good choice. CGI::App will also run under mod_perl, but Cat does not play well as a cgi. I prefer Cat mostly because of aesthetics. I'm not religious about it; I just like the way it makes my apps fit together. As far as learning curve goes, I think it depends on your previous experience (as most things do). I've been working with Cat for about 10 mos and I feel comfortable with it now, but the first couple months were tricky. For me though it was as much learning best practices and Template Toolkit (to which I was also new) as it was nuts and bolts of MVC and the Catalyst Way of Doing Things. Start here: http://cgiapp.erlbaum.net/cgi-bin/cgi-app/index.cgi?CatalystCompared though it's a bit out of date, it's pretty fair. I find the Cat session handling to be easy and (actually) fun. There are a variety of plugins for the session storage backend; I use the DBI version. My MyApp.pm file looks like: use Catalyst ( '-Debug', 'Browser', 'Static::Simple', 'Session', 'Session::Store::DBI', 'Session::State::Cookie' ); and then my config looks like: session => { cookie_name => 'myapp_session', cookie_expires => 0, # this is the default (ends with browser close) expires => 8 * 3600, # session ends 8 hours after last access dbi_dsn => 'DBI:mysql:mydbname', dbi_user => 'myuser', dbi_pass => 'mypass', dbi_table => 'sessions', verify_address => 0, # # do not verify addresses, # since SSL will record different IP for # some proxy users } and then in my Controller code, I can just do: my $session = $c->session; # $s is a hashref of session data ... # do some stuff, then save something into the session $session->{foo} = 'bar'; and it Just Works. -- Peter Karman . http://peknet.com/ . peter at peknet.com From jcoyne at umn.edu Wed Nov 8 07:56:58 2006 From: jcoyne at umn.edu (Justin Coyne) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:56:58 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> Message-ID: <733F105E-A2F9-4C47-81C6-8FFAD075EC3B@umn.edu> Eric, I'm also at the U of M over in ADCS (Java & Web Services). I've been using CGI::Application for quite some time now. If you want, I can send you a CGI::Application with the UMN single sign on stuff already implemented. -Justin On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:02 AM, Eric Eklund wrote: > I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either > CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different > frameworks will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone > have working experience with either of these frameworks and session > management? If so, would you be willing to share an example. I > have searched the Web for tutorials that contain the features I am > looking for and have come up fairly empty handed. At this point, I > am siding toward CGI::App due to the perceived learning curve of > Catalyst. > > > > Eric Eklund > > Adaptive Technology Associate > > Computer Accommodations Program > > University of Minnesota > > McNamara Alumni Center > > 200 Oak St. SE Suite 180 > > Minneapolis MN 55455-2002 > > P: (612) 624-3303 > > F: (612) 626-9654 > > http://cap.umn.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mpls-pm mailing list > Mpls-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/mpls-pm/attachments/20061108/559b3052/attachment.html From ian at indecorous.com Wed Nov 8 09:11:51 2006 From: ian at indecorous.com (Ian Malpass) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:11:51 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Meeting - Nov 8? In-Reply-To: <4550EE25.9050204@indecorous.com> References: <4550EE25.9050204@indecorous.com> Message-ID: <45520FD7.1040604@indecorous.com> Ian Malpass wrote: > So Espresso Royale tomorrow night for all those interested, and > absolutely positively definitely no really a technical meet in December. Er, when I said "absolutely positively definitely no really a technical meet in December" what I meant to say was "absolutely positively definitely no really a technical meet in /January/", since - all being well - I'll either not be in the country or just-returned and jetlagged on the second Wednesday of December. Plus that'll give me a bit more time to corral some speakers.... Ian From ringert at consumption.net Wed Nov 8 14:40:23 2006 From: ringert at consumption.net (Torleiv Ringer) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:40:23 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> Message-ID: <45525CD7.2000800@consumption.net> Eric Eklund wrote: > > I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either > CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different frameworks > will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone have working > experience with either of these frameworks and session management? If > so, would you be willing to share an example. I have searched the Web > for tutorials that contain the features I am looking for and have come > up fairly empty handed. At this point, I am siding toward CGI::App > due to the perceived learning curve of Catalyst. > CGI::App is really quite easy to use. The main thing is to design your objects first. I have some old code that I will try to find and see if I can encapsulate it enough to post. -- I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later. - Mitch Hedberg From ian at indecorous.com Wed Nov 8 14:55:09 2006 From: ian at indecorous.com (Ian Malpass) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:55:09 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> Message-ID: <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> Eric Eklund wrote: > I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either > CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different frameworks > will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone have working > experience with either of these frameworks and session management? If > so, would you be willing to share an example. I have searched the Web > for tutorials that contain the features I am looking for and have come > up fairly empty handed. At this point, I am siding toward CGI::App due > to the perceived learning curve of Catalyst. I started building an application with Catalyst, and I got into a horrible mess when the "helper" scripts produced a mass of code I couldn't understand while I was trying to make use of the session management plugins. Well, actually, most of the problem was down in amongst the many and varied CPAN modules it worked with. Anyway, I tried CGI::Application, and it Just Worked (TM). Much of the problem doubtless stemmed from me diving right in and trying to run before I could walk (whilst, er, diving). But still, Catalyst gives me the impression that I'll end up with a great pile of code I don't fully understand, and I've shied away from it as a result. When mentioning all of the above on london.pm[0], Aaron Trevena mentioned Maypole, which is the project that Catalyst forked from, and which has since continued along its merry way. I have not yet investigated Maypole, but it might be worth looking at. Ian [0] In the thread at , which is part of a much larger and more sprawling debate featuring, as I recall, the standard london.pm bitching and willy-waving. From naughton at umn.edu Thu Nov 9 07:14:56 2006 From: naughton at umn.edu (David Naughton) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:14:56 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> Message-ID: <20061109151456.GA28268@umn.edu> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 09:02:25AM -0600, Eric Eklund wrote: > I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either > CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different frameworks > will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone have working > experience with either of these frameworks and session management? If > so, would you be willing to share an example. I have searched the Web > for tutorials that contain the features I am looking for and have come > up fairly empty handed. Have you seen this, Eric? CGI::Application::Plugin::Session Example That's a page from the CGI::App wiki, which I hope I've mentioned in our previous conversations about these frameworks. Sorry if I haven't mentioned this great resource until now. > At this point, I am siding toward CGI::App due > to the perceived learning curve of Catalyst. I have mentioned this to Eric before, but in case others haven't seen it, there's an excellent and fairly new article about CGI::App on perl.com: Rapid Website Development with CGI::Application The article mentions a lot of impressive new features and plugins, many of which were clearly motivated by competition with Catalyst. The new stuff fixes a lot of the clunkiness that caused me to switch to Catalyst. Looks like a very good option for those who may not want all the features of Catalyst, but do want easier installation and a shallower learning curve. David Naughton Web Development Manager Networking & Telecommunications Services University of Minnesota naughton at umn.edu > Eric Eklund > Adaptive Technology Associate > Computer Accommodations Program > University of Minnesota > McNamara Alumni Center > 200 Oak St. SE Suite 180 > Minneapolis MN 55455-2002 > P: (612) 624-3303 > F: (612) 626-9654 > http://cap.umn.edu From peter at peknet.com Thu Nov 9 07:41:34 2006 From: peter at peknet.com (Peter Karman) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:41:34 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061109153543.GC28268@umn.edu> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4551F8EC.6070109@peknet.com> <20061109153543.GC28268@umn.edu> Message-ID: <45534C2E.9040603@peknet.com> David Naughton scribbled on 11/9/06 9:35 AM: > > Not sure exactly what you meant, Peter, but here's a clarification. > While it's true that a non-persistent, e.g. plain old CGI, environment > is not ideal for Cat, mod_perl is not the only persistent environment. > Cat does just fine with persistent CGI environments like FastCGI and > PersistentPerl. In fact, many Cat developers prefer those over mod_perl. > What's more, the Cat engine automatically detects its environment, > allowing you to switch, for example, between mod_perl and FastCGI > without changing any code. > yes, very true. I think I was trying to distinguish between plain old CGI and persistent environments. Thanks, David. -- Peter Karman . http://peknet.com/ . peter at peknet.com From naughton at umn.edu Thu Nov 9 08:06:07 2006 From: naughton at umn.edu (David Naughton) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:06:07 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> Message-ID: <20061109160607.GD28268@umn.edu> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 04:55:09PM -0600, Ian Malpass wrote: > Eric Eklund wrote: > > I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either > > CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different frameworks > > will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone have working > > experience with either of these frameworks and session management? If > > so, would you be willing to share an example. I have searched the Web > > for tutorials that contain the features I am looking for and have come > > up fairly empty handed. At this point, I am siding toward CGI::App due > > to the perceived learning curve of Catalyst. > > I started building an application with Catalyst, and I got into a > horrible mess when the "helper" scripts produced a mass of code I > couldn't understand while I was trying to make use of the session > management plugins. Well, actually, most of the problem was down in > amongst the many and varied CPAN modules it worked with. Anyway, I tried > CGI::Application, and it Just Worked (TM). > > Much of the problem doubtless stemmed from me diving right in and trying > to run before I could walk (whilst, er, diving). But still, Catalyst > gives me the impression that I'll end up with a great pile of code I > don't fully understand, and I've shied away from it as a result. > > When mentioning all of the above on london.pm[0], Aaron Trevena > mentioned Maypole, which is the project that Catalyst forked from, and > which has since continued along its merry way. I have not yet > investigated Maypole, but it might be worth looking at. One thing that didn't come up in that thread is that Catalyst inherited its dependence on half of CPAN from Maypole. Most likely, one reason that CGI::Application "Just Worked (TM)" for you is that it has far fewer dependencies and attempts to do much less out of the box than either Catalyst or Maypole. Another framework mentioned on that thread that is worth checking it is Jifty , which is _very_ similar to Maypole, except that it also supports continuations and comes with "a pony" (their words, not mine ;^). > Ian > > [0] In the thread at > , > which is part of a much larger and more sprawling debate featuring, as I > recall, the standard london.pm bitching and willy-waving. You recall correctly, and much of it comes in the form of Monty Python references which are even more out of control than usual for Perl programmers. Still worth checking out, though. David Naughton Web Development Manager Networking & Telecommunications Services University of Minnesota From autarch at urth.org Thu Nov 9 08:11:29 2006 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:11:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Ian Malpass wrote: > I started building an application with Catalyst, and I got into a > horrible mess when the "helper" scripts produced a mass of code I > couldn't understand while I was trying to make use of the session > management plugins. Well, actually, most of the problem was down in > amongst the many and varied CPAN modules it worked with. Anyway, I tried > CGI::Application, and it Just Worked (TM). I recently(-ish) built a small app using Catalyst. I _didn't_ use the helper scripts to generate code, IIRC, as I'm not a big fan of code generation. Doing everything "by hand" worked pretty well, and the session plugins more or less worked, though I think there were some bugs back then that are now fixed. I used DBIx::Class for the model as an experiment. I wasn't too thrilled with it, but if you're already using Class::DBI it should feel pretty natural. I used Mason for templating, but in more of a pipelined manner, where the Catalyst controller set up variables for the templates to use. I liked the controller bits quite a bit. Overall, I'd probably use Catalyst again, though I might try to figure out how to get it and Alzabo to play nice with each other, rather than using DBIx::Class again. -dave /*=================================================== VegGuide.Org www.BookIRead.com Your guide to all that's veg. My book blog ===================================================*/ From naughton at umn.edu Thu Nov 9 07:35:43 2006 From: naughton at umn.edu (David Naughton) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:35:43 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <4551F8EC.6070109@peknet.com> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4551F8EC.6070109@peknet.com> Message-ID: <20061109153543.GC28268@umn.edu> On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 09:34:04AM -0600, Peter Karman wrote: > > > Eric Eklund scribbled on 11/8/06 9:02 AM: > > I am looking to rewrite some old legacy code utilizing either > > CGI::Application or Catalyst. Looking at the two different frameworks > > will quickly give a Perl novice a headache. Does anyone have working > > experience with either of these frameworks and session management? If > > so, would you be willing to share an example. I have searched the Web > > for tutorials that contain the features I am looking for and have come > > up fairly empty handed. At this point, I am siding toward CGI::App due > > to the perceived learning curve of Catalyst. > > > > well since I can't do my Cat talk tonight, I'll take a stab at this. > > My 2c on whether to use CGI::App or Catalyst is that it depends on how you > intend to deploy your application. If it's going to be in a shared or > non-mod_perl environment, then go with CGI::App. If you can run under mod_perl, > then Cat is a good choice. CGI::App will also run under mod_perl, but Cat does > not play well as a cgi. Not sure exactly what you meant, Peter, but here's a clarification. While it's true that a non-persistent, e.g. plain old CGI, environment is not ideal for Cat, mod_perl is not the only persistent environment. Cat does just fine with persistent CGI environments like FastCGI and PersistentPerl. In fact, many Cat developers prefer those over mod_perl. What's more, the Cat engine automatically detects its environment, allowing you to switch, for example, between mod_perl and FastCGI without changing any code. [..] David Naughton Web Development Manager Networking & Telecommunications Services University of Minnesota naughton at umn.edu From patm at visi.com Thu Nov 9 08:28:53 2006 From: patm at visi.com (Patrick McNamee) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:28:53 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061109160607.GD28268@umn.edu> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> <20061109160607.GD28268@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20061109162853.GA29313@isis.visi.com> On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:06:07AM -0600, David Naughton wrote: > On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 04:55:09PM -0600, Ian Malpass wrote: > > > > [0] In the thread at > > , > > which is part of a much larger and more sprawling debate featuring, as I > > recall, the standard london.pm bitching and willy-waving. > > You recall correctly, and much of it comes in the form of Monty Python > references which are even more out of control than usual for Perl > programmers... Perhaps there are some pythonistas lurking on london.pm. From naughton at umn.edu Thu Nov 9 08:59:20 2006 From: naughton at umn.edu (David Naughton) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:59:20 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> Message-ID: <20061109165920.GA10568@umn.edu> On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:11:29AM -0600, Dave Rolsky wrote: > On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Ian Malpass wrote: > > > I started building an application with Catalyst, and I got into a > > horrible mess when the "helper" scripts produced a mass of code I > > couldn't understand while I was trying to make use of the session > > management plugins. Well, actually, most of the problem was down in > > amongst the many and varied CPAN modules it worked with. Anyway, I tried > > CGI::Application, and it Just Worked (TM). > > I recently(-ish) built a small app using Catalyst. I _didn't_ use the > helper scripts to generate code, IIRC, as I'm not a big fan of code > generation. Doing everything "by hand" worked pretty well, and the session > plugins more or less worked, though I think there were some bugs back then > that are now fixed. > > I used DBIx::Class for the model as an experiment. I wasn't too thrilled > with it, but if you're already using Class::DBI it should feel pretty > natural. I used Mason for templating, but in more of a pipelined manner, > where the Catalyst controller set up variables for the templates to use. I > liked the controller bits quite a bit. > > Overall, I'd probably use Catalyst again, though I might try to figure out > how to get it and Alzabo to play nice with each other, rather than using > DBIx::Class again. I'd love to hear more regarding Alzabo vs. DBIx::Class. Can you be more specific, maybe even point to an already-existing comparison? Thanks! David Naughton Web Development Manager Networking & Telecommunications Services University of Minnesota > -dave > > /*=================================================== > VegGuide.Org www.BookIRead.com > Your guide to all that's veg. My book blog > ===================================================*/ > _______________________________________________ > Mpls-pm mailing list > Mpls-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-pm From autarch at urth.org Fri Nov 10 17:07:20 2006 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:07:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061109165920.GA10568@umn.edu> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> <20061109165920.GA10568@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, David Naughton wrote: > I'd love to hear more regarding Alzabo vs. DBIx::Class. Can you be more > specific, maybe even point to an already-existing comparison? Well, I think it all starts from a basic philsophical difference. IMO, when you design an app which needs a dbms (and I think many, many apps do need one) you should start with the design of your database, and then write code. In other words, data has primacy over code. OO is a terrible way of managing data, and anything that makes you use OO mechanisms for data management seems wrong, as does starting with a class design. I think Alzabo supports the "database-first" design method, whereas DBIx::Class (and Class::DBI even moreso) support an OO-first design. That doesn't mean you couldn't use them differently, but I think they're oriented towards people who don't want to know as much about the DBMS, and would prefer to just think of objects. -dave /*=================================================== VegGuide.Org www.BookIRead.com Your guide to all that's veg. My book blog ===================================================*/ From gary.vollink at gmail.com Sat Nov 11 07:55:34 2006 From: gary.vollink at gmail.com (Gary Vollink) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:55:34 -0600 Subject: [Mpls-pm] Frameworks and session management? In-Reply-To: <20061109165920.GA10568@umn.edu> References: <20061108090225592.00000000676@CAP2> <4552604D.1080701@indecorous.com> <20061109165920.GA10568@umn.edu> Message-ID: On 11/9/06, David Naughton wrote: > On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:11:29AM -0600, Dave Rolsky wrote: > > Overall, I'd probably use Catalyst again, though I might try to figure out > > how to get it and Alzabo to play nice with each other, rather than using > > DBIx::Class again. > > I'd love to hear more regarding Alzabo vs. DBIx::Class. Can you be more > specific, maybe even point to an already-existing comparison? > It would be really cool if someone could do a lightning talk on Alzabo vs. DBIx::Class!