From thomas at stderr.net Mon Sep 23 20:37:25 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting Message-ID: <20020924033725.C2750@io.stderr.net> Espresso Royale Cafe - 1229 Hennepin Ave @ 7:00 pm wednesday 25th. Anyone have any topics they would like to see discussed? (So anyone that cares can prepare themselves a little) -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From james at ehlo.com Mon Sep 23 22:37:21 2002 From: james at ehlo.com (James FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: <20020924033725.C2750@io.stderr.net> References: <20020924033725.C2750@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: <20020924033721.GA52636@ehlo.com> * Thomas Eibner (thomas@stderr.net) [020923 21:33]: > Anyone have any topics they would like to see discussed? (So anyone > that cares can prepare themselves a little) IIRC, Dave R. was going to present something at one of the more formal meetings some months ago about large-scale programming projects in Perl (presumably experiences from Mason/Alzabo). Now that I've had to try to apply some of the topics that were to be discussed (specifically testing and exceptions), I'd like to hear other's thoughts on best common practices. Dave, you still out there? I saw a new Alzabo release on the CPAN mailing list this morning and some ramblings in the ChangeLog about a vacation... -- j. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Mon Sep 23 23:33:51 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: <20020924033721.GA52636@ehlo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, James FitzGibbon wrote: > IIRC, Dave R. was going to present something at one of the more formal > meetings some months ago about large-scale programming projects in Perl > (presumably experiences from Mason/Alzabo). > > Now that I've had to try to apply some of the topics that were to be > discussed (specifically testing and exceptions), I'd like to hear other's > thoughts on best common practices. > > Dave, you still out there? I saw a new Alzabo release on the CPAN mailing > list this morning and some ramblings in the ChangeLog about a vacation... Yeah, but I'm definitely not ready to do such a presentation. FWIW, I was planning on covering some of the following areas: - parameter validation for subroutines/methods - exception handling - logging - perhaps on-the-fly code generation (something I do a heck of a lot of) - ??? - I'll take requests. If there's something people want to hear about, I can take a crack at it. The first 3 items are there because I wrote modules for them, Params::Validate, Exception::Class, and Log::Dispatch respectively. The latter two modules are seeing pretty wide adoption, especially Log::Dispatch, which has pretty much become the "standard" logging solution for Perl, especially now that people have built some log4j type solutions on top of it. I do use the word "standard" in quotes intentionally. This is Perl, after all ;) Given my current workload, I don't know if I could do this for October. November would probably work. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From josha at mac.com Tue Sep 24 00:00:39 2002 From: josha at mac.com (Josh Aas) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <922B70CC-CF7A-11D6-8347-000393923EDA@mac.com> Anyone want to give a Macalester College student a ride? You guessed it - I can meet you near Macalester College. ;-) -Josh P.S. Is Ken back yet? Is he ever coming back? On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 11:33 PM, Dave Rolsky wrote: > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, James FitzGibbon wrote: > >> IIRC, Dave R. was going to present something at one of the more formal >> meetings some months ago about large-scale programming projects in >> Perl >> (presumably experiences from Mason/Alzabo). >> >> Now that I've had to try to apply some of the topics that were to be >> discussed (specifically testing and exceptions), I'd like to hear >> other's >> thoughts on best common practices. >> >> Dave, you still out there? I saw a new Alzabo release on the CPAN >> mailing >> list this morning and some ramblings in the ChangeLog about a >> vacation... > > Yeah, but I'm definitely not ready to do such a presentation. FWIW, I > was > planning on covering some of the following areas: > > - parameter validation for subroutines/methods > > - exception handling > > - logging > > - perhaps on-the-fly code generation (something I do a heck of a lot > of) > > - ??? - I'll take requests. If there's something people want to hear > about, I can take a crack at it. > > > The first 3 items are there because I wrote modules for them, > Params::Validate, Exception::Class, and Log::Dispatch respectively. > The > latter two modules are seeing pretty wide adoption, especially > Log::Dispatch, which has pretty much become the "standard" logging > solution for Perl, especially now that people have built some log4j > type > solutions on top of it. I do use the word "standard" in quotes > intentionally. This is Perl, after all ;) > > Given my current workload, I don't know if I could do this for October. > November would probably work. > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From ken at mathforum.org Tue Sep 24 01:53:02 2002 From: ken at mathforum.org (Ken Williams) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: <922B70CC-CF7A-11D6-8347-000393923EDA@mac.com> Message-ID: <451E6283-CF8A-11D6-86AB-0003939C4354@mathforum.org> On Tuesday, September 24, 2002, at 03:00 PM, Josh Aas wrote: > Anyone want to give a Macalester College student a ride? You > guessed it - I can meet you near Macalester College. ;-) > -Josh > > P.S. Is Ken back yet? Is he ever coming back? I've shuffled onto the electronic coil. I'm now everywhere. Actually, I'll be back next month for a 2.5 week visit, then back "permanently" sometime in December. -Ken -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Tue Sep 24 06:34:21 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: <451E6283-CF8A-11D6-86AB-0003939C4354@mathforum.org>; from ken@mathforum.org on Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 04:53:02PM +1000 References: <922B70CC-CF7A-11D6-8347-000393923EDA@mac.com> <451E6283-CF8A-11D6-86AB-0003939C4354@mathforum.org> Message-ID: <20020924133420.A7037@io.stderr.net> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 04:53:02PM +1000, Ken Williams wrote: > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2002, at 03:00 PM, Josh Aas wrote: > > Anyone want to give a Macalester College student a ride? You > > guessed it - I can meet you near Macalester College. ;-) > > -Josh > > > > P.S. Is Ken back yet? Is he ever coming back? > > I've shuffled onto the electronic coil. I'm now everywhere. > > Actually, I'll be back next month for a 2.5 week visit, then > back "permanently" sometime in December. So should we try to have next months meeting in the timeframe when you are here? That is if you have time to show up :-) -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From james at ehlo.com Tue Sep 24 06:52:41 2002 From: james at ehlo.com (James FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: References: <20020924033721.GA52636@ehlo.com> Message-ID: <20020924115241.GA66051@ehlo.com> * Dave Rolsky (autarch@urth.org) [020924 00:23]: > Yeah, but I'm definitely not ready to do such a presentation. FWIW, I was > planning on covering some of the following areas: I'm not talking about a full-blown thing. Just a "pick Dave's brain over coffee" session. Exceptions are the big thing for me right now, since I'm in the midst of building an exception hierarchy and are running into some questions that are more philisophical than technical in nature. I recently read through Matt Sargant's (sp?) presentation from OSCON on Exceptions, and though he lists Exception::Class as a best practice, he doesn't give much in the way of large-scale examples of it's usage. I suppose reading the Alzabo (and Mason?) code would be a good place for me to start, right? > - perhaps on-the-fly code generation (something I do a heck of a lot of) Yeah, running programs using your modules through B::Deparse is fun in a sick kind of way. Especially with -p turned on. 8-) Since you do a lot of generator code, have you had a chance to benchmark its performance? Or does increased usability win over that need? Thanks. -- j. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From matt at omega.org Tue Sep 24 07:23:59 2002 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: <20020924033725.C2750@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020924072333.0206cde0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> I plan on being there. -Matt At 03:37 AM 9/24/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Espresso Royale Cafe - 1229 Hennepin Ave @ 7:00 pm wednesday 25th. > >Anyone have any topics they would like to see discussed? (So anyone >that cares can prepare themselves a little) > >-- > Thomas Eibner DnsZone > mod_pointer > !(C) > Putting the HEST in .COM > > >-------------------------------------------------- >Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > >To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org >with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > > >WARNING: The remainder of this message has not been transferred. >The estimated size of this message is 2181 bytes. >Click on the Retrieve From Server icon above and check mail again to get >the whole thing. (If you're reading this in the preview pane, you'll need >to open the message to see the icon.) If the Retrieve From Server icon is >not showing, then this message is no longer on the server. Matthew Johnson Software Consultant Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA phone: 612-281-3058 email: matt@omega.org -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From James.FitzGibbon at target.com Tue Sep 24 12:03:30 2002 From: James.FitzGibbon at target.com (James.FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Helpful info on Safe module Message-ID: I ran across this today. Unrelated to anything we've been talking about for tomorrow, but still something that a few people would find helpful I'm sure. http://raleigh.pm.org/talks/safe/safe1.html -- j. James FitzGibbon Consultant, Ajilon Services, TTS-3D@TPN4H james.fitzgibbon@target.com voice/fax 612-761-6121/4277 -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Tue Sep 24 12:25:00 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: <922B70CC-CF7A-11D6-8347-000393923EDA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Josh Aas wrote: > Anyone want to give a Macalester College student a ride? You guessed it > - I can meet you near Macalester College. ;-) > -Josh > > P.S. Is Ken back yet? Is he ever coming back? I don't think he's back yet. I assume he's coming back eventually because he has family and a girlfriend here. He might even be back over winter because that's when school lets out. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Tue Sep 24 13:02:35 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Helpful info on Safe module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, James.FitzGibbon wrote: > I ran across this today. Unrelated to anything we've been talking about > for tomorrow, but still something that a few people would find helpful > I'm sure. > > http://raleigh.pm.org/talks/safe/safe1.html Hmm, Ken and a lot of other people who've looked closely at Safe.pm seem to think it's not all that useful. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From tim.burlowski at veritas.com Tue Sep 24 13:14:58 2002 From: tim.burlowski at veritas.com (Tim Burlowski) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: ; from autarch@urth.org on Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 12:25:00PM -0500 References: <922B70CC-CF7A-11D6-8347-000393923EDA@mac.com> Message-ID: <20020924131458.A11702@maple.min.veritas.com> Where is this meeting being held? tim burlowski Previously Dave Rolsky(autarch@urth.org) wrote: > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Josh Aas wrote: > > > Anyone want to give a Macalester College student a ride? You guessed it > > - I can meet you near Macalester College. ;-) > > -Josh > > > > P.S. Is Ken back yet? Is he ever coming back? > > I don't think he's back yet. I assume he's coming back eventually because > he has family and a girlfriend here. He might even be back over winter > because that's when school lets out. > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. -- tim burlowski ======================================== Weather conditions for Roseville, MN. Condition are Partly Cloudy , temperature is 58 degrees with winds From the South Southwest at 10. Visibility is Unlimited miles. Dewpoint 36, barometer reads 30.26 inches and falling Humidity at 44%. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From James.FitzGibbon at target.com Tue Sep 24 14:55:30 2002 From: James.FitzGibbon at target.com (James.FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Helpful info on Safe module Message-ID: Well, it's safer than a blind eval, should you ever be in the unfortunate position of having to that. I did think that the Penguin module was a good use of Safe, though it never seemed to go anywhere. Penguin allowed you to bundle up a block of code, PGP sign it, and send it to a remote server. The remote server verified your signature, then constructed a Safe compartment and ran your code. There haven't been updates to the module in some time though, so the choice of a flightless bird as a moniker was perhaps more apt than the author intended. Still, the idea of Safe was good - I think one big problem was that you needed to really grok perlguts and Opcode in order to do much useful with it. Anyone have any experience with SafeTcl who could compare and contrast? -- j. James FitzGibbon Consultant, Ajilon Services, TTS-3D@TPN4H james.fitzgibbon@target.com voice/fax 612-761-6121/4277 > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Rolsky [mailto:autarch@urth.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 1:03 PM > To: Minneapolis Perl Mongers (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [mplspm]: Helpful info on Safe module > > > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, James.FitzGibbon wrote: > > > I ran across this today. Unrelated to anything we've been > talking about > > for tomorrow, but still something that a few people would > find helpful > > I'm sure. > > > > http://raleigh.pm.org/talks/safe/safe1.html > > Hmm, Ken and a lot of other people who've looked closely at > Safe.pm seem > to think it's not all that useful. > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Tue Sep 24 15:08:55 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: reminder: wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: <20020924115241.GA66051@ehlo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, James FitzGibbon wrote: > I'm not talking about a full-blown thing. Just a "pick Dave's brain over > coffee" session. Exceptions are the big thing for me right now, since I'm > in the midst of building an exception hierarchy and are running into some > questions that are more philisophical than technical in nature. That's fine. I'll be there on Wednesday and if people ask questions I'll answer them. > I recently read through Matt Sargant's (sp?) presentation from OSCON on > Exceptions, and though he lists Exception::Class as a best practice, he > doesn't give much in the way of large-scale examples of it's usage. I > suppose reading the Alzabo (and Mason?) code would be a good place for me to > start, right? Alzabo uses exceptions more than Mason, or at least it defines more exception classes. Both use them in various ways to both report errors and communicate out-of-band results. > Yeah, running programs using your modules through B::Deparse is fun in a > sick kind of way. Especially with -p turned on. 8-) I can only imagine. > Since you do a lot of generator code, have you had a chance to benchmark its > performance? Or does increased usability win over that need? Well, the only performance impact will be when it is generated. I generally arrange to have the code generated when the module is loaded, which usually coincides with process startup. It definitely can slow down starting a process (if you use Alzabo::MethoMaker on a big schema, it can take quite a while to finish, for example) but once the code's generated it's no different than non-generated code in terms of performance. And code generation can actually be used to _increase_ performance, since sometimes there are things you only know during code generation that can be used to implement optimizations. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message.