From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Thu Oct 3 20:58:49 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: multiple modules, one distribution. Message-ID: Sorry, I had a brainfart. What's the method of using h2xs to create a directory structure for multiple modules (like Foo::Bar, Foo::Car, and Foo::Tar) in one directory structure with only one Makefile.PL? Thanks in advance. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Josephes | http://www.visi.com/~cpj1 cpj1@visi.com | -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Thu Oct 3 21:19:07 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: multiple modules, one distribution. In-Reply-To: ; from cpj1@isis.visi.com on Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 08:58:49PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20021004041906.A2518@io.stderr.net> On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 08:58:49PM -0500, Chris Josephes wrote: > Sorry, I had a brainfart. > > What's the method of using h2xs to create a directory structure for > multiple modules (like Foo::Bar, Foo::Car, and Foo::Tar) in one directory > structure with only one Makefile.PL? If what you really want is to distribute Foo::Bar, Foo::Car, and Foo::Tar in the same "archive" you can create a subdirectory called 'lib'. Everything under the lib directory gets installed when you run make install. (at least if they're .pm's) -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From ken at mathforum.org Thu Oct 3 22:35:54 2002 From: ken at mathforum.org (Ken Williams) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: multiple modules, one distribution. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <632A8DE0-D74A-11D6-86AD-0003939C4354@mathforum.org> On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 11:58 AM, Chris Josephes wrote: > Sorry, I had a brainfart. > > What's the method of using h2xs to create a directory structure for > multiple modules (like Foo::Bar, Foo::Car, and Foo::Tar) in one > directory > structure with only one Makefile.PL? If there's nothing fancy that needs to be done (i.e., no XS) then you just put them in a lib/ directory as lib/Foo/Bar.pm and so on. MakeMaker will find them and test/install them. With Module::Build, the lib/ directory is currently the *only* supported place to put module files. -Ken -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Sun Oct 6 18:52:26 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Module validity? Message-ID: Just a question of opinion, for those that have uploaded modules to CPAN. How much public discussion do you normally engage in regarding a pending module upload? CPAN recommends discussion just to make sure nobody else is trying to accomplish the same task, or that there is no dupicity in CPAN modules. I have a project I'm working on. I plan on using the code myself for sure, but the principle of the code is relatively common on CPAN. It's a template parser, and there are already a few of those uploaded. I'd like to upload the code to CPAN to see if there is interest, and to maybe encourage outside development and involvement. Can anyone relate any experience they've had in discussing their code in perl forums? Has anyone ever been given the recommendation that they shouldn't upload their code?? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Josephes | http://www.visi.com/~cpj1 cpj1@visi.com | -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Sun Oct 6 19:13:34 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Module validity? In-Reply-To: ; from cpj1@isis.visi.com on Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 06:52:26PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20021007021334.A8983@io.stderr.net> On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 06:52:26PM -0500, Chris Josephes wrote: > Just a question of opinion, for those that have uploaded modules to CPAN. > > How much public discussion do you normally engage in regarding a pending > module upload? CPAN recommends discussion just to make sure nobody else > is trying to accomplish the same task, or that there is no dupicity in > CPAN modules. I've discussed with people on mailinglists and IRC before starting a new module before. > I have a project I'm working on. I plan on using the code myself for > sure, but the principle of the code is relatively common on CPAN. It's a > template parser, and there are already a few of those uploaded. I'd like > to upload the code to CPAN to see if there is interest, and to maybe > encourage outside development and involvement. You could bring it up on perlmonks.org or a similar discussion fora, like NEWS:comp.lang.perl.modules (is that right?). I'm afraid though, that you are not going to get much possitive additude if you're making yet another templating module without really bringing something brilliantly new to the module (not my own attitude, but mostly the attitude of people on different mailinglists I've encountered). > Can anyone relate any experience they've had in discussing their code in > perl forums? Has anyone ever been given the recommendation that they > shouldn't upload their code?? There have been a lot of people that have been told to find different namespaces at least. I don't think many authors have been directly forbidden to upload their modules (if any) Good luck though :) -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Sun Oct 6 21:24:12 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Module validity? In-Reply-To: <20021007021334.A8983@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Thomas Eibner wrote: > > I have a project I'm working on. I plan on using the code myself for > > sure, but the principle of the code is relatively common on CPAN. It's a > > template parser, and there are already a few of those uploaded. I'd like > > to upload the code to CPAN to see if there is interest, and to maybe > > encourage outside development and involvement. > > You could bring it up on perlmonks.org or a similar discussion fora, like > NEWS:comp.lang.perl.modules (is that right?). I'm afraid though, that you > are not going to get much possitive additude if you're making yet another > templating module without really bringing something brilliantly new to > the module (not my own attitude, but mostly the attitude of people on > different mailinglists I've encountered). Good point. I'm hoping that I can at least make one or two convincing arguments. The goal of the project was to create an extendable templating system that didn't look like perl, and could possibly be ported to other languages like Python or Java. Also, it was to have a simple, but flexible syntax that can accomodate most needs. > There have been a lot of people that have been told to find different > namespaces at least. I don't think many authors have been directly > forbidden to upload their modules (if any) Yeah, I've had namespace recommendations as well, which for the most part have been reasonable, and made sense in the long run. Most of the modules I've published have covered things that nobody has tried before, or things that were of little consequence to really matter in the long run. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Josephes | http://www.visi.com/~cpj1 cpj1@visi.com | -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Sun Oct 6 22:52:04 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Module validity? In-Reply-To: <20021007021334.A8983@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Thomas Eibner wrote: > You could bring it up on perlmonks.org or a similar discussion fora, like > NEWS:comp.lang.perl.modules (is that right?). I'm afraid though, that you > are not going to get much possitive additude if you're making yet another > templating module without really bringing something brilliantly new to > the module (not my own attitude, but mostly the attitude of people on > different mailinglists I've encountered). That's cause there's too damn many templating modules _already_. And that's _my_ attitude. CPAN is filled with them. > > Can anyone relate any experience they've had in discussing their code in > > perl forums? Has anyone ever been given the recommendation that they > > shouldn't upload their code?? > > There have been a lot of people that have been told to find different > namespaces at least. I don't think many authors have been directly > forbidden to upload their modules (if any) Nobody ever gets forbidden, and nobody has to change their namespace. But if you want to get your module listed in the official module list on CPAN, it has to be "approved" by the modules@perl.org list. That has nothing to do with being able to upload it. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Sun Oct 6 23:32:42 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:41 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Module validity? In-Reply-To: ; from autarch@urth.org on Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 10:52:04PM -0500 References: <20021007021334.A8983@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: <20021007063242.A11018@io.stderr.net> On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 10:52:04PM -0500, Dave Rolsky wrote: > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Thomas Eibner wrote: > > > You could bring it up on perlmonks.org or a similar discussion fora, like > > NEWS:comp.lang.perl.modules (is that right?). I'm afraid though, that you > > are not going to get much possitive additude if you're making yet another > > templating module without really bringing something brilliantly new to > > the module (not my own attitude, but mostly the attitude of people on > > different mailinglists I've encountered). > > That's cause there's too damn many templating modules _already_. And > that's _my_ attitude. CPAN is filled with them. That still doesn't mean that there's no room for innovative code. > > > Can anyone relate any experience they've had in discussing their code in > > > perl forums? Has anyone ever been given the recommendation that they > > > shouldn't upload their code?? > > > > There have been a lot of people that have been told to find different > > namespaces at least. I don't think many authors have been directly > > forbidden to upload their modules (if any) > > Nobody ever gets forbidden, and nobody has to change their namespace. But > if you want to get your module listed in the official module list on CPAN, > it has to be "approved" by the modules@perl.org list. I'm almost certain that there has been cases of someone just uploading a module and interfeering with another modules namespace that HAD to change their namespace (can't remember when I read in the modules@perl.org archive). But of course noone can forbid you to call your module something outside of CPAN, but it was kinda implied that he wanted to upload to CPAN where he correctly need to have approval for the namespace. > That has nothing to do with being able to upload it. Of course not. -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Mon Oct 7 06:51:49 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Module validity? In-Reply-To: <20021007063242.A11018@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Thomas Eibner wrote: > I'm almost certain that there has been cases of someone just uploading > a module and interfeering with another modules namespace that HAD to > change their namespace (can't remember when I read in the modules@perl.org > archive). But of course noone can forbid you to call your module something > outside of CPAN, but it was kinda implied that he wanted to upload to > CPAN where he correctly need to have approval for the namespace. A long time ago, probably before Solaris 8 came out, Sun Micorsystems wanted control of the "Solaris::" namespace, but there were already modules in it. There was a concern about the existing modules, and the fact that Solaris was a company trademark. In the end, Sun changed their minds and decided to claim "Sun::Solaris::". So far, there's only 3 modules in that namespace, but they aren't documented. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Josephes | http://www.visi.com/~cpj1 cpj1@visi.com | -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Thu Oct 10 15:48:36 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Followup: module validity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I posted a message on comp.lang.perl.modules the other day (MSG ID 5OLo9.629$YJ1.1334545@ruti.visi.com),including a brief RFC, plus the POD that comes with the main module of the software. There were no replies, but since it's a voluntary community I wasn't expecting too much feedback. I think I'm going to try a couple of other forums for the heck of it, and I'll probably post the code to CPAN this weekend. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Josephes | http://www.visi.com/~cpj1 cpj1@visi.com | -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From ken at mathforum.org Thu Oct 10 16:40:36 2002 From: ken at mathforum.org (Ken Williams) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Followup: module validity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 06:48 AM, Chris Josephes wrote: > I posted a message on comp.lang.perl.modules the other day (MSG ID > 5OLo9.629$YJ1.1334545@ruti.visi.com),including a brief RFC, plus the POD > that comes with the main module of the software. > > There were no replies, but since it's a voluntary community I wasn't > expecting too much feedback. > > I think I'm going to try a couple of other forums for the heck of it, > and > I'll probably post the code to CPAN this weekend. Please consider: 1) modules@perl.org - the official place you're supposed to discuss new CPAN namespaces 2) module-authors@perl.org - a good place to discuss the relationships between your modules and existing CPAN ones. I do cringe at the idea of yet another templating module, and I suspect you'll get various suggestions on either of those lists recommending that you try to extend an existing module if none does what you need at the moment. -Ken -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From bparker at pobox.com Thu Oct 10 17:58:12 2002 From: bparker at pobox.com (Brian Parker) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Followup: module validity References: Message-ID: <3DA60604.30A4C8B6@pobox.com> Hi, I'm a first time poster. Looking forward to enjoying community with you folks, Perl style. I humbly ask: why is yet another templating module necessary? I admit that I have not looked at the features deeply, and neither will anyone else. I think that you should specify exactly what is different about your module, if you want people to use it. regards, Brian > > I do cringe at the idea of yet another templating module, and I suspect > you'll get various suggestions on either of those lists recommending > that you try to extend an existing module if none does what you need at > the moment. > > -Ken > > -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Fri Oct 11 08:31:16 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Followup: module validity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Ken Williams wrote: > > On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 06:48 AM, Chris Josephes wrote: > > I posted a message on comp.lang.perl.modules the other day (MSG ID > > 5OLo9.629$YJ1.1334545@ruti.visi.com),including a brief RFC, plus the POD > > that comes with the main module of the software. > > > > There were no replies, but since it's a voluntary community I wasn't > > expecting too much feedback. > > > > I think I'm going to try a couple of other forums for the heck of it, > > and > > I'll probably post the code to CPAN this weekend. > > Please consider: > > 1) modules@perl.org - the official place you're supposed to discuss new > CPAN namespaces > > 2) module-authors@perl.org - a good place to discuss the relationships > between your modules and existing CPAN ones. Will do. > > I do cringe at the idea of yet another templating module, and I suspect > you'll get various suggestions on either of those lists recommending > that you try to extend an existing module if none does what you need at > the moment. > Noted. I'll address this issue in the RFC, including comparisons to existing modules. If you want, I'll send a draft to mpls@pm.org for commentary, suggestions. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Josephes | http://www.visi.com/~cpj1 cpj1@visi.com | -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From bparker at pobox.com Mon Oct 14 13:51:52 2002 From: bparker at pobox.com (Brian Parker) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Params::Validate question Message-ID: <3DAB1248.B0442A37@pobox.com> Hi, I would like to subclass Params::Validate so that the default option for the 'on_fail' "Global" option is something like this: 'on_fail' => sub { require IllegalArgumentException; IllegalArgumentException->throw(message=>$_[0]); } ... where 'IllegalArgumentException' is a subclass of 'Class::Exception'. I can see from the docs that the recommended way to do this is to call 'Params::Validate::validation_options' from each module that 'uses' Params::Validate, but I rather make the change in one place (we have over 100 .pm files). I suppose I could hack Params::Validate to change the default, but I don't like doing that either. Can anybody recommend a better way? regards, Brian -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Mon Oct 14 14:14:43 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Params::Validate question In-Reply-To: <3DAB1248.B0442A37@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Brian Parker wrote: > I would like to subclass Params::Validate so that the default option for > the 'on_fail' "Global" option is something like this: > > 'on_fail' => sub { require IllegalArgumentException; > IllegalArgumentException->throw(message=>$_[0]); } > > ... where 'IllegalArgumentException' is a subclass of > 'Class::Exception'. I can see from the docs that the recommended way to > do this is to call 'Params::Validate::validation_options' from each > module that 'uses' Params::Validate, but I rather make the change in one > place (we have over 100 .pm files). I suppose I could hack > Params::Validate to change the default, but I don't like doing that > either. Can anybody recommend a better way? Since Params::Validate isn't OO (and be glad, cause you want this particular module to be fast), you can't subclass it. You could, however, create your own little wrapper, something like this: package My::Params::Validate; require Params::Validate; sub import { my $class = shift; my $caller = caller; { eval "package $caller;"; Params::Validate::validation_options( ... ); } unshift @_, $caller; goto &Params::Validate::import; } I think that'd work (I just wrote it in this email). That's some serious Perl voodoo, but I think it should do the trick ;) If it works (or you get it to work with tweaks), let me know, because it might be worth documenting as the "official" way to customize P::V's behavior. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From bparker at pobox.com Mon Oct 14 15:03:07 2002 From: bparker at pobox.com (Brian Parker) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Params::Validate question References: Message-ID: <3DAB22FB.5B7D6B40@pobox.com> Hey Dave, Here is my first shot: $ perl -w test.pl Goto undefined subroutine &Params::Validate::import at z:/wcBuildTools/BusDataAc cess/src/lib/WC/ParamsValidate.pm line 19. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at test.pl line 3. I think this is because 'import' exists in the 'Exporter' package. I'll take a closer look at this later. I can see the "jist" of the strategy you propose. I'll let you know when I get something to work. regards, Brian Here is my test module: use strict; package WC::ParamsValidate; require Params::Validate; sub import { my $class = shift; my $caller = caller; { eval "package $caller;"; Params::Validate::validation_options( on_fail => sub { require WC::Exception; WC::Exception->throw(message=>$_[0]); } ); } unshift @_, $caller; goto &Params::Validate::import; } 1; Dave Rolsky wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Brian Parker wrote: > > > I would like to subclass Params::Validate so that the default option for > > the 'on_fail' "Global" option is something like this: > > > > 'on_fail' => sub { require IllegalArgumentException; > > IllegalArgumentException->throw(message=>$_[0]); } > > > > ... where 'IllegalArgumentException' is a subclass of > > 'Class::Exception'. I can see from the docs that the recommended way to > > do this is to call 'Params::Validate::validation_options' from each > > module that 'uses' Params::Validate, but I rather make the change in one > > place (we have over 100 .pm files). I suppose I could hack > > Params::Validate to change the default, but I don't like doing that > > either. Can anybody recommend a better way? > > Since Params::Validate isn't OO (and be glad, cause you want this > particular module to be fast), you can't subclass it. > > You could, however, create your own little wrapper, something like this: > > package My::Params::Validate; > > require Params::Validate; > > sub import > { > my $class = shift; > my $caller = caller; > > { > eval "package $caller;"; > Params::Validate::validation_options( ... ); > } > > unshift @_, $caller; > goto &Params::Validate::import; > } > > I think that'd work (I just wrote it in this email). That's some serious > Perl voodoo, but I think it should do the trick ;) > > If it works (or you get it to work with tweaks), let me know, because it > might be worth documenting as the "official" way to customize P::V's > behavior. > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From michael.smit at reuters.com Thu Oct 17 16:04:34 2002 From: michael.smit at reuters.com (Michael Smit) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Job Opportunities Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017154920.025fcf98@167.76.155.14> Greetings! It's been a long time since I've been able to make it to a meeting, but some people probably still remember me a little. However, I have Perl news that is somewhat topical... Our office is hiring, and we love Perl. Things have changed a lot since we last looked for people for our downtown St. Paul development office. For one, we're Reuters now. Yes, the media and financial news conglomerate. So we've gone from Bridge with 1600 employees to Reuters with over 15000. (see www.reuters.com for more). What hasn't changed is that we're still a small (30 people) development office working on backend financial data processes. We use Perl heavily throughout our data collection, parsing, and distribution processes. We run Sybase for our database and most servers are Sun Solaris boxes. It's only through Perl that we can get our work done. And we have 3 or 4 full-time positions open (not consulting at this time unfortunately... we want you body and soul). Experience is important, but we will hire junior people too if you're a good match for us. Perl and SQL are important skills, with mod_perl/Mason, C, and bond knowledge extremely helpful. As a BigCo, Reuters has a decent benefits package and salaries should be competitive with the market. I know recently I saw several messages on the list about the tight job market for Perl programmers, and it's about time that we got to hire some help for our increasingly important role within Reuters. If you're interested, please feel free to email me with questions or resumes. Michael Smit Manager, Fixed Income Database Development, Reuters America ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From gypsy at FreeQ.com Thu Oct 17 21:48:53 2002 From: gypsy at FreeQ.com (Gypsy Rogers) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Job Opportunities In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017154920.025fcf98@167.76.155.14> Message-ID: For the record, I worked with Michael and his team for about a year and it's a wonderful work enviroment, any programmer should count himself lucky to work there. Anyone hesitating this on this one should give it a second look. :) just my two cents On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Michael Smit wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:04:34 -0500 > From: Michael Smit > Reply-To: mpls@pm.org > To: mpls@pm.org > Subject: [mplspm]: Job Opportunities > > Greetings! > > It's been a long time since I've been able to make it to a meeting, but > some people probably still remember me a little. However, I have Perl news > that is somewhat topical... Our office is hiring, and we love Perl. > > Things have changed a lot since we last looked for people for our downtown > St. Paul development office. For one, we're Reuters now. Yes, the media > and financial news conglomerate. So we've gone from Bridge with 1600 > employees to Reuters with over 15000. (see www.reuters.com for more). > > What hasn't changed is that we're still a small (30 people) development > office working on backend financial data processes. We use Perl heavily > throughout our data collection, parsing, and distribution processes. We > run Sybase for our database and most servers are Sun Solaris boxes. It's > only through Perl that we can get our work done. > > And we have 3 or 4 full-time positions open (not consulting at this time > unfortunately... we want you body and soul). Experience is important, but > we will hire junior people too if you're a good match for us. Perl and SQL > are important skills, with mod_perl/Mason, C, and bond knowledge extremely > helpful. As a BigCo, Reuters has a decent benefits package and salaries > should be competitive with the market. > > I know recently I saw several messages on the list about the tight job > market for Perl programmers, and it's about time that we got to hire some > help for our increasingly important role within Reuters. If you're > interested, please feel free to email me with questions or resumes. > > Michael Smit > Manager, Fixed Income Database Development, Reuters America > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be > the views of Reuters Ltd. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > ========================================================================= = http://www.GypsyRogers.com - Bringing Your Internet Business Into Focus = http://www.Gypsy2012.com - Hack the Vote 2012 ========================================================================= -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Sun Oct 20 16:38:52 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? Message-ID: So we should meet this week, right? Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on Hennepin)? -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Sun Oct 20 16:39:44 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Donor management software? Message-ID: At the last meeting someone mentioned some sort of donor tracking/management software released by a guy who did stuff with the green party. Or it was released by the green party or something like that. Anyway, can someone point me towards this software? I'd really like to find out more about it. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From matt at omega.org Sun Oct 20 19:44:21 2002 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? References: Message-ID: <006001c2789a$fec8e2b0$3201a8c0@rip> Yes. Sure. That would be fun. -Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Rolsky" To: Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 4:38 PM Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? > So we should meet this week, right? > > Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > Hennepin)? > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From craig at wavefront.net Mon Oct 21 07:59:28 2002 From: craig at wavefront.net (Craig S. Wilson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? In-Reply-To: <006001c2789a$fec8e2b0$3201a8c0@rip> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021075526.02d7fba0@127.0.0.1> At 07:44 PM 10/20/2002 -0500, Matthew Johnson wrote: >Yes. Sure. That would be fun. -Matt > > > So we should meet this week, right? > > > > Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > > Hennepin)? So, will people be bringing PERL Tricks and Treats to share? ------------------------------------------------------------- Craig S. Wilson craig@wavefront.com 651-638-9594 612-865-8794 (cell) -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Mon Oct 21 09:19:14 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021075526.02d7fba0@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021075526.02d7fba0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20021021141914.GA24458@pasiphae.stderr.net> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 07:59:28AM -0500, Craig S. Wilson wrote: > At 07:44 PM 10/20/2002 -0500, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >Yes. Sure. That would be fun. -Matt > > > >> So we should meet this week, right? > >> > >> Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > >> Hennepin)? > > So, will people be bringing PERL Tricks and Treats to share? Not the next meeting, but next after that I might be bringing back some Copenhagen Perl Mongers shirts we can raffle away. This means that I wont be able to make it to Novembers meeting. -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From zaj at cypress.com Mon Oct 21 09:46:16 2002 From: zaj at cypress.com (Andrew Jonsson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Job Opportunities References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017154920.025fcf98@167.76.155.14> Message-ID: <3DB41338.B8A99ACD@cypress.com> Do you have an address I could use to directly send an email to you? Thanks Andrew Jonsson Software Engineer Cypress Semiconductor Michael Smit wrote: > > Greetings! > > It's been a long time since I've been able to make it to a meeting, but > some people probably still remember me a little. However, I have Perl news > that is somewhat topical... Our office is hiring, and we love Perl. > > Things have changed a lot since we last looked for people for our downtown > St. Paul development office. For one, we're Reuters now. Yes, the media > and financial news conglomerate. So we've gone from Bridge with 1600 > employees to Reuters with over 15000. (see www.reuters.com for more). > > What hasn't changed is that we're still a small (30 people) development > office working on backend financial data processes. We use Perl heavily > throughout our data collection, parsing, and distribution processes. We > run Sybase for our database and most servers are Sun Solaris boxes. It's > only through Perl that we can get our work done. > > And we have 3 or 4 full-time positions open (not consulting at this time > unfortunately... we want you body and soul). Experience is important, but > we will hire junior people too if you're a good match for us. Perl and SQL > are important skills, with mod_perl/Mason, C, and bond knowledge extremely > helpful. As a BigCo, Reuters has a decent benefits package and salaries > should be competitive with the market. > > I know recently I saw several messages on the list about the tight job > market for Perl programmers, and it's about time that we got to hire some > help for our increasingly important role within Reuters. If you're > interested, please feel free to email me with questions or resumes. > > Michael Smit > Manager, Fixed Income Database Development, Reuters America > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be > the views of Reuters Ltd. > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. -- Andrew Jonsson Cypress Semiconductor, MN Inc. Phone: (952) 876-8427 email: zaj@cypress.com Pager: (612) 650-5581 email paging: zaj.page%cmi@cypress.com -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From zaj at cypress.com Mon Oct 21 09:50:05 2002 From: zaj at cypress.com (Andrew Jonsson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? References: Message-ID: <3DB4141D.591F3A2A@cypress.com> Can anyone tell me where there is decent parking around there? I tried find parking around the Royal the last meeting and gave up after 20 minutes. Dave Rolsky wrote: > > So we should meet this week, right? > > Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > Hennepin)? > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. -- Andrew Jonsson Cypress Semiconductor, MN Inc. Phone: (952) 876-8427 email: zaj@cypress.com Pager: (612) 650-5581 email paging: zaj.page%cmi@cypress.com -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From zaj at cypress.com Mon Oct 21 10:15:46 2002 From: zaj at cypress.com (Andrew Jonsson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Job Opportunities References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021017154920.025fcf98@167.76.155.14> <3DB41338.B8A99ACD@cypress.com> Message-ID: <3DB41A22.D6415AAC@cypress.com> Never Mind, I found it in the header. Monday Morning Brain Death. A.J. Andrew Jonsson wrote: > > Do you have an address I could use to directly send an email to you? > > Thanks > > Andrew Jonsson > Software Engineer > Cypress Semiconductor > > Michael Smit wrote: > > > > Greetings! > > > > It's been a long time since I've been able to make it to a meeting, but > > some people probably still remember me a little. However, I have Perl news > > that is somewhat topical... Our office is hiring, and we love Perl. > > > > Things have changed a lot since we last looked for people for our downtown > > St. Paul development office. For one, we're Reuters now. Yes, the media > > and financial news conglomerate. So we've gone from Bridge with 1600 > > employees to Reuters with over 15000. (see www.reuters.com for more). > > > > What hasn't changed is that we're still a small (30 people) development > > office working on backend financial data processes. We use Perl heavily > > throughout our data collection, parsing, and distribution processes. We > > run Sybase for our database and most servers are Sun Solaris boxes. It's > > only through Perl that we can get our work done. > > > > And we have 3 or 4 full-time positions open (not consulting at this time > > unfortunately... we want you body and soul). Experience is important, but > > we will hire junior people too if you're a good match for us. Perl and SQL > > are important skills, with mod_perl/Mason, C, and bond knowledge extremely > > helpful. As a BigCo, Reuters has a decent benefits package and salaries > > should be competitive with the market. > > > > I know recently I saw several messages on the list about the tight job > > market for Perl programmers, and it's about time that we got to hire some > > help for our increasingly important role within Reuters. If you're > > interested, please feel free to email me with questions or resumes. > > > > Michael Smit > > Manager, Fixed Income Database Development, Reuters America > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com > > > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > > sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be > > the views of Reuters Ltd. > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > > -- > Andrew Jonsson Cypress Semiconductor, MN Inc. > Phone: (952) 876-8427 email: zaj@cypress.com > Pager: (612) 650-5581 email paging: zaj.page%cmi@cypress.com > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. -- Andrew Jonsson Cypress Semiconductor, MN Inc. Phone: (952) 876-8427 email: zaj@cypress.com Pager: (612) 650-5581 email paging: zaj.page%cmi@cypress.com -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Mon Oct 21 10:22:29 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? In-Reply-To: <3DB4141D.591F3A2A@cypress.com> References: <3DB4141D.591F3A2A@cypress.com> Message-ID: <20021021152229.GB24458@pasiphae.stderr.net> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 09:50:05AM -0500, Andrew Jonsson wrote: > Can anyone tell me where there is decent parking around there? I tried > find parking around the Royal the last meeting and gave up after 20 > minutes. Last time I parked on a sidestreet 3 blocks away (out hennepin) 'cause my regular spot on a street close to was blocked by the police. If you are willing to drive around a little it is possible to find a spot. Maybe it's time for some car-pooling? -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From James.FitzGibbon at target.com Mon Oct 21 10:25:23 2002 From: James.FitzGibbon at target.com (James.FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? Message-ID: There are a few options: - there are two lots at 10th and Hennepin that are $2 or $3 after 5pm. - there is usually some parking on Harmon place between 13th and Spruce (one block south of Hennepin) - if you go one block past 13th on Hennpin to Laurel, then turn right there is a long stretch where you are likely to find parking. The track runs along Laurel to 15th, up 15th to some street that starts with an "H" (does it matter?), along that street to 13th and then down. -- j. James FitzGibbon Consultant, Ajilon Services, TTS-3D@TPN4H james.fitzgibbon@target.com voice/fax 612-761-6121/4277 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Jonsson [mailto:zaj@cypress.com] > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:50 AM > To: mpls@pm.org > Subject: Re: [mplspm]: Meeting? > > > Can anyone tell me where there is decent parking around > there? I tried > find parking around the Royal the last meeting and gave up after 20 > minutes. > > > > Dave Rolsky wrote: > > > > So we should meet this week, right? > > > > Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > > Hennepin)? > > > > -dave > > > > /*================== > > www.urth.org > > we await the New Sun > > ==================*/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > > -- > Andrew Jonsson Cypress Semiconductor, MN Inc. > Phone: (952) 876-8427 email: zaj@cypress.com > Pager: (612) 650-5581 email paging: zaj.page%cmi@cypress.com > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From troy.johnson at myrealbox.com Mon Oct 21 10:40:14 2002 From: troy.johnson at myrealbox.com (Troy Johnson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? References: <3DB4141D.591F3A2A@cypress.com> <20021021152229.GB24458@pasiphae.stderr.net> Message-ID: <3DB41FDE.1060305@myrealbox.com> Thomas Eibner wrote: > On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 09:50:05AM -0500, Andrew Jonsson wrote: >>Can anyone tell me where there is decent parking around there? I tried >>find parking around the Royal the last meeting and gave up after 20 >>minutes. > Last time I parked on a sidestreet 3 blocks away (out hennepin) 'cause > my regular spot on a street close to was blocked by the police. If you > are willing to drive around a little it is possible to find a spot. > Maybe it's time for some car-pooling? or a spot with better parking arrangements ;-) -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Mon Oct 21 11:08:30 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? In-Reply-To: <3DB41FDE.1060305@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Troy Johnson wrote: > > or a spot with better parking arrangements Considering that I don't have a car on Wednesday evenings any more, I would prefer that any new location we choose be either bus-accessible (without 27 transfers, thank you!) or that someone volunteer to chauffeur me around ;) Espresso Royale does have parking, though, as was pointed out in a previous email. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From ken at mathforum.org Mon Oct 21 14:52:43 2002 From: ken at mathforum.org (Ken Williams) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 04:38 PM, Dave Rolsky wrote: > So we should meet this week, right? > > Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > Hennepin)? I think I'll be able to come to this meeting, actually. I'm in town for a couple of weeks (leaving on the 27th). I should make it to ER by about 7:30. -Ken -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Mon Oct 21 15:13:06 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Ken Williams wrote: > I think I'll be able to come to this meeting, actually. I'm in town for > a couple of weeks (leaving on the 27th). I should make it to ER by > about 7:30. You can only come if you're prepared to entertain us with stories of escaping wild crocodiles while in the bush. And you better talk with a funny accent while doing it! -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From James.FitzGibbon at target.com Mon Oct 21 16:50:58 2002 From: James.FitzGibbon at target.com (James.FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? Message-ID: And not the funny accent you had before you left... -- j. James FitzGibbon Consultant, Ajilon Services, TTS-3D@TPN4H james.fitzgibbon@target.com voice/fax 612-761-6121/4277 > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Rolsky [mailto:autarch@urth.org] > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:13 PM > To: mpls@pm.org > Subject: Re: [mplspm]: Meeting? > > > On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Ken Williams wrote: > > > I think I'll be able to come to this meeting, actually. > I'm in town for > > a couple of weeks (leaving on the 27th). I should make it to ER by > > about 7:30. > > You can only come if you're prepared to entertain us with stories of > escaping wild crocodiles while in the bush. And you better > talk with a > funny accent while doing it! > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From james at ehlo.com Tue Oct 22 21:00:02 2002 From: james at ehlo.com (James FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: 10/23 ?? 10/30 ?? Message-ID: <20021023020002.GC5181@ehlo.com> My mind is failing me, and I've deleted the recent messages regarding this month's meeting. Is it tomorrow, or on the 30th? I would have guessed tomorrow with all the recent chatter, but since that isn't the last wednesday I want to be certain before inviting others not subscribed to this list. Thanks. -- j. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From troy.johnson at myrealbox.com Tue Oct 22 21:13:13 2002 From: troy.johnson at myrealbox.com (Troy Johnson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: 10/23 ?? 10/30 ?? References: <20021023020002.GC5181@ehlo.com> Message-ID: <3DB605B9.1040503@myrealbox.com> Dave R. wrote: So we should meet this week, right? Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on Hennepin)? So yeah, I think it is tomorrow (10/23). I am planning on being there (croc 'rasling stories are something I just can't resist). James FitzGibbon wrote: > My mind is failing me, and I've deleted the recent messages regarding this > month's meeting. Is it tomorrow, or on the 30th? I would have guessed > tomorrow with all the recent chatter, but since that isn't the last > wednesday I want to be certain before inviting others not subscribed to this > list. > > Thanks. > -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Tue Oct 22 21:22:32 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: 10/23 ?? 10/30 ?? In-Reply-To: <3DB605B9.1040503@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Troy Johnson wrote: > Dave R. wrote: > So we should meet this week, right? > Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > Hennepin)? Yep, tomorrow. I think it's supposed to be the second to last Wednesday of the month, but I could be wrong. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Tue Oct 22 22:09:23 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: 10/23 ?? 10/30 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought it was just the "4th Wednesday" of the month. On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Dave Rolsky wrote: > On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Troy Johnson wrote: > > > Dave R. wrote: > > So we should meet this week, right? > > Same time, same place (i.e. 7 PM Wednesday at Espresso Royale on > > Hennepin)? > > Yep, tomorrow. > > I think it's supposed to be the second to last Wednesday of the month, but > I could be wrong. > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > -------------------- Christopher Josephes cpj1@visi.com -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Tue Oct 22 23:33:10 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: 10/23 ?? 10/30 ?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021023043310.GG27287@pasiphae.stderr.net> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 10:09:23PM -0500, Chris Josephes wrote: > I thought it was just the "4th Wednesday" of the month. And I thought it was the last wednesday of the month, which is marked in my calendar :-) -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From matt at omega.org Wed Oct 23 00:08:46 2002 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: Meeting? References: Message-ID: <00f901c27a52$4419be80$3201a8c0@rip> Dave, Where do you live? (email me if it is a secret) I've found street parking on a street first perpendicular and then turning somewhat parallel to Hennepin. sorry, don't know the name. Hey, it's what is great about a city -- no parking. Just imagine you are in a Seinfeld episode and George will be screwing up a woody aleen movie by bungling the parking. Obviously with my TV habits I have no relevent perl topics to discuss. However I am willing to take some money from that guy that loves perl people. matt. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Rolsky" To: Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [mplspm]: Meeting? > On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Troy Johnson wrote: > > > > > or a spot with better parking arrangements > > Considering that I don't have a car on Wednesday evenings any more, I > would prefer that any new location we choose be either bus-accessible > (without 27 transfers, thank you!) or that someone volunteer to chauffeur > me around ;) > > Espresso Royale does have parking, though, as was pointed out in a > previous email. > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From james at ehlo.com Wed Oct 23 05:44:16 2002 From: james at ehlo.com (James FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: 10/23 ?? 10/30 ?? In-Reply-To: <20021023043310.GG27287@pasiphae.stderr.net> References: <20021023043310.GG27287@pasiphae.stderr.net> Message-ID: <20021023104416.GB12691@ehlo.com> * Thomas Eibner (thomas@stderr.net) [021022 23:53]: > > I thought it was just the "4th Wednesday" of the month. > > And I thought it was the last wednesday of the month, which is marked > in my calendar :-) This is what we get for leaving the web page reading "meetings have been sporadic lately..." See everyone tonight then. -- j. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From craig at wavefront.net Sat Oct 26 10:12:14 2002 From: craig at wavefront.net (Craig S. Wilson) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: 10/23 ?? 10/30 ?? In-Reply-To: <20021023104416.GB12691@ehlo.com> References: <20021023043310.GG27287@pasiphae.stderr.net> <20021023043310.GG27287@pasiphae.stderr.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026100557.02de8fe0@127.0.0.1> Congratulations to the lucky recipients of the "Angry Monkey" books provided by Dave Rolsky. I had to leave early so I didn't get to see what the actual determining event was. Was it really a cage match? FYI: I stopped at Barnes & Nobles in Roseville yesterday and after I didn't see the Mason book on the shelf, I inquired after it. Their records show four on order. ------------------------------------------------------------- Craig S. Wilson craig@wavefront.com 651-638-9594 612-865-8794 (cell) -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Tue Oct 29 22:51:41 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM Message-ID: So we've talked a bit about this in the past, and at the last meeting we briefly mentioned the idea of taking on dates & times as our PM project. I think this'd be a really cool thing to do, and there is a desperate need for somebodies in the Perl community to really try to improve the situation in regards to date/time modules. Here's some thing that I think we could work on, in order of increasing difficulty. 1. A document comparing all the major date & time modules for Perl. Things to look at could include: -- module scope (how much stuff it does) -- epoch only or not? -- does date math? -- OO or functions? -- special features? -- license -- strengths/weakness (somewhat subjective but that's ok) 2. Take the above and turn it into datetime.perl.org. This could be a website we collectively maintained that hosted the above document and perhaps other resources (I'm not sure exactly what though). 3. Fill in the gaps. For example, AFAIK there is no module for Perl that handles time zones completely and correctly. In fact, the only module I know of for Perl that handles time zones at all is Time::Zone, which AFAIC is close to useless. All it does is parse Unix-style TZ env variables and return offsets. That's not very helpful because it uses the older style 3/4 letter zones like 'cst', which just doesn't cut it these days. 4. Try to come up with _the_ one way to do it ;) I say this sort of tongue in cheek, but only sort of. Perl has a lot of different date/time modules, each of which individually have very interesting and useful features, but none of which by itself does everything. Since they all have radically different interfaces, working with more than 1 module at a time is a big pain in the ass. Initially, we might just try to design a single interface that hides the details of the different modules, and presents a single unified way of doing all the useful things one could do (parsing, date math, output in different formats, etc.). Later, we might start actually ripping code out of different modules and putting together our own suite of modules that represents the best of Perl's date/time code. If there's any takers for #1, here's a reasonably complete list of "interesting" Perl date/time modules along with my comments about them: - Time::Piece (and Time::Seconds) - nice interface, nice simply date math, but only handles epoch times, which is a drag. See also my Time::Piece::MySQL module, which adds some mysql-specific bits. Similar modules for other DBs/external resources can be added just as easily. - Class::Date & Date::Handler - kind of like Time::Piece on steroids, but I don't see why they can't all be integrated. - Date::Manip - ridiculously large amount of code. crapulous interface. freaking brilliant parsing code that handles things like "2nd day after next Tuesday" or "the first day of the last week of the next month". Also has some internationalization bits for parsing, which is doubly slick. If this thing could return a Time::Piece object (and T::P handled times outside of the epoch), I'd be in heaven. - Date::Calc - lots of nice date math functions. Stupid interface (Function_Names_Like_This). Written in C so presumably its fast. -- Date::Calc::Object - OO interface over Date::Calc. Interesting. Also has Date delta objects. Cool! Works with Date::Calc functions, which have stupid names, but making a wrapper for that wouldn't be too hard. -- Date::Calendar - seems quite useful - Date::Parse - lightweight so it's a good choice if you know that you'll never exceed its limitations. But those limitations are pretty big cause it doesn't do much. - Date::Format - basically strftime in Perl. Time::Piece provides the same thing. - Time::Zone - see above - Time::Human - could be useful for some apps - Time::TAI64 - currently says not to use it, but it could provide something useful is author releases, stable, documented version. Relies on libtai by Dan J Bernstein, known psycho. - Date::ICal - nice interface, would mesh well with Time::Piece. ICal is important for calendaring apps. Date::ICal is part of the reefknot project, which aimed at implementing all of iCal in Perl, but seems to be more or less defunct. - Date::Interval - could be interesting but seems to have a weird API. And quite a few more. Also check out the now defunct reefknot project at www.reefknot.org, which has more resources on dates & times. So if people are interested perhaps they could pick a few modules to do writeups on. I think something like this would be good: scope: small, medium, big (how many different things it tries to accomplish) interface: OO / functions / both? focus (or focii): parsing, output formatting, date math, business dates, calendars, date intervals, etc. license - important if we ever want to try to combine them And then maybe 2-4 paragraphs talking about special features, strengths and weaknesses, relationships to other modules. Any takers? -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From siegler at visi.com Wed Oct 30 03:27:56 2002 From: siegler at visi.com (siegler@visi.com) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1035970076.3dbfa61cbabfd@my.visi.com> Quoting Dave Rolsky : > If there's any takers for #1, here's a reasonably complete list of > "interesting" Perl date/time modules along with my comments about them: > > > - Time::Piece (and Time::Seconds) - nice interface, nice simply date math, > but only handles epoch times, which is a drag. See also my > Time::Piece::MySQL module, which adds some mysql-specific bits. Similar > modules for other DBs/external resources can be added just as easily. > > - Class::Date & Date::Handler - kind of like Time::Piece on steroids, but > I don't see why they can't all be integrated. > > - Date::Manip - ridiculously large amount of code. crapulous interface. > freaking brilliant parsing code that handles things like "2nd day after > next Tuesday" or "the first day of the last week of the next month". Also > has some internationalization bits for parsing, which is doubly slick. If > this thing could return a Time::Piece object (and T::P handled times > outside of the epoch), I'd be in heaven. > > - Date::Calc - lots of nice date math functions. Stupid interface > (Function_Names_Like_This). Written in C so presumably its fast. > > -- Date::Calc::Object - OO interface over Date::Calc. Interesting. Also > has Date delta objects. Cool! Works with Date::Calc functions, which > have stupid names, but making a wrapper for that wouldn't be too hard. > > -- Date::Calendar - seems quite useful > > - Date::Parse - lightweight so it's a good choice if you know that you'll > never exceed its limitations. But those limitations are pretty big cause > it doesn't do much. > > - Date::Format - basically strftime in Perl. Time::Piece provides the > same thing. > > - Time::Zone - see above > > - Time::Human - could be useful for some apps > > - Time::TAI64 - currently says not to use it, but it could provide > something useful is author releases, stable, documented version. Relies > on libtai by Dan J Bernstein, known psycho. > > - Date::ICal - nice interface, would mesh well with Time::Piece. ICal is > important for calendaring apps. Date::ICal is part of the reefknot > project, which aimed at implementing all of iCal in Perl, but seems to be > more or less defunct. > > - Date::Interval - could be interesting but seems to have a weird API. > > > And quite a few more. Also check out the now defunct reefknot project at > www.reefknot.org, which has more resources on dates & times. I've used Time::ParseDate quite a few times. Has an adept parser that handles complex stuff and understands time zones. Returns date as seconds since epoch. Handy for ebay scripts. This is a good idea! whenever I want to do something date related, I always seem to find a few modules that almost but not quite do what I want, each with its own api. Chris -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Wed Oct 30 06:03:33 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Dave Rolsky wrote: [ proposal snipped ] > Any takers? It sounds pretty interesting. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can make it to the meeting today. If there is more local interest, I'll sign up. -------------------- Christopher Josephes cpj1@visi.com -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From thomas at stderr.net Wed Oct 30 06:46:17 2002 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021030124617.GB20418@pasiphae.stderr.net> On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 06:03:33AM -0600, Chris Josephes wrote: > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Dave Rolsky wrote: > > [ proposal snipped ] > > > Any takers? > > It sounds pretty interesting. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can make > it to the meeting today. ^^^^^ Uh oh, we had a meeting last week :-) -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer !(C) Putting the HEST in .COM -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From james at ehlo.com Wed Oct 30 07:14:41 2002 From: james at ehlo.com (James FitzGibbon) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021030131441.GA9402@ehlo.com> * Chris Josephes (cpj1@isis.visi.com) [021030 06:11]: > It sounds pretty interesting. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can make > it to the meeting today. I'm quite sure you can't - it was last week. (Gasp - we might actually have a meaningful conversation on this list between meetings.) -- j. -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From cpj1 at isis.visi.com Wed Oct 30 08:50:41 2002 From: cpj1 at isis.visi.com (Chris Josephes) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM In-Reply-To: <20021030124617.GB20418@pasiphae.stderr.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Thomas Eibner wrote: > On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 06:03:33AM -0600, Chris Josephes wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Dave Rolsky wrote: > > > > [ proposal snipped ] > > > > > Any takers? > > > > It sounds pretty interesting. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can make > > it to the meeting today. > ^^^^^ > Uh oh, we had a meeting last week :-) D'oh!!! Well, there's always next month. -------------------- Christopher Josephes cpj1@visi.com -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From bparker at pobox.com Wed Oct 30 09:49:29 2002 From: bparker at pobox.com (Brian Parker) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM References: Message-ID: <002b01c2802b$efc920c0$0200000a@ptc.com> I think this is a great idea. Having just spent quite a bit of time try to find the "best" date/time module, I know their is definitely a need to be met. (We ended up using both Class::Date and Date::Calc.) I definitely will volunteer some amount of time. I have to weigh my time commitments before I ask for a large chunk of the work. (We just had a baby girl.) Would we use pod for this? Would the format be similar to the poop doc: http://poop.sourceforge.net/ regards, Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Rolsky" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 10:51 PM Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM > So we've talked a bit about this in the past, and at the last meeting we > briefly mentioned the idea of taking on dates & times as our PM project. > > I think this'd be a really cool thing to do, and there is a desperate need > for somebodies in the Perl community to really try to improve the > situation in regards to date/time modules. > > Here's some thing that I think we could work on, in order of increasing > difficulty. > > 1. A document comparing all the major date & time modules for Perl. > > Things to look at could include: > > -- module scope (how much stuff it does) > -- epoch only or not? > -- does date math? > -- OO or functions? > -- special features? > -- license > -- strengths/weakness (somewhat subjective but that's ok) > > > 2. Take the above and turn it into datetime.perl.org. This could be a > website we collectively maintained that hosted the above document and > perhaps other resources (I'm not sure exactly what though). > > > 3. Fill in the gaps. For example, AFAIK there is no module for Perl that > handles time zones completely and correctly. In fact, the only module I > know of for Perl that handles time zones at all is Time::Zone, which AFAIC > is close to useless. All it does is parse Unix-style TZ env variables and > return offsets. That's not very helpful because it uses the older style > 3/4 letter zones like 'cst', which just doesn't cut it these days. > > > 4. Try to come up with _the_ one way to do it ;) I say this sort of > tongue in cheek, but only sort of. Perl has a lot of different date/time > modules, each of which individually have very interesting and useful > features, but none of which by itself does everything. Since they all > have radically different interfaces, working with more than 1 module at a > time is a big pain in the ass. > > Initially, we might just try to design a single interface that hides the > details of the different modules, and presents a single unified way of > doing all the useful things one could do (parsing, date math, output in > different formats, etc.). Later, we might start actually ripping code out > of different modules and putting together our own suite of modules that > represents the best of Perl's date/time code. > > > If there's any takers for #1, here's a reasonably complete list of > "interesting" Perl date/time modules along with my comments about them: > > > - Time::Piece (and Time::Seconds) - nice interface, nice simply date math, > but only handles epoch times, which is a drag. See also my > Time::Piece::MySQL module, which adds some mysql-specific bits. Similar > modules for other DBs/external resources can be added just as easily. > > - Class::Date & Date::Handler - kind of like Time::Piece on steroids, but > I don't see why they can't all be integrated. > > - Date::Manip - ridiculously large amount of code. crapulous interface. > freaking brilliant parsing code that handles things like "2nd day after > next Tuesday" or "the first day of the last week of the next month". Also > has some internationalization bits for parsing, which is doubly slick. If > this thing could return a Time::Piece object (and T::P handled times > outside of the epoch), I'd be in heaven. > > - Date::Calc - lots of nice date math functions. Stupid interface > (Function_Names_Like_This). Written in C so presumably its fast. > > -- Date::Calc::Object - OO interface over Date::Calc. Interesting. Also > has Date delta objects. Cool! Works with Date::Calc functions, which > have stupid names, but making a wrapper for that wouldn't be too hard. > > -- Date::Calendar - seems quite useful > > - Date::Parse - lightweight so it's a good choice if you know that you'll > never exceed its limitations. But those limitations are pretty big cause > it doesn't do much. > > - Date::Format - basically strftime in Perl. Time::Piece provides the > same thing. > > - Time::Zone - see above > > - Time::Human - could be useful for some apps > > - Time::TAI64 - currently says not to use it, but it could provide > something useful is author releases, stable, documented version. Relies > on libtai by Dan J Bernstein, known psycho. > > - Date::ICal - nice interface, would mesh well with Time::Piece. ICal is > important for calendaring apps. Date::ICal is part of the reefknot > project, which aimed at implementing all of iCal in Perl, but seems to be > more or less defunct. > > - Date::Interval - could be interesting but seems to have a weird API. > > > And quite a few more. Also check out the now defunct reefknot project at > www.reefknot.org, which has more resources on dates & times. > > So if people are interested perhaps they could pick a few modules to do > writeups on. I think something like this would be good: > > scope: small, medium, big (how many different things it tries to accomplish) > interface: OO / functions / both? > focus (or focii): parsing, output formatting, date math, business dates, calendars, date intervals, etc. > license - important if we ever want to try to combine them > > And then maybe 2-4 paragraphs talking about special features, strengths > and weaknesses, relationships to other modules. > > > Any takers? > > > -dave > > /*================== > www.urth.org > we await the New Sun > ==================*/ > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list > > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org > with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. > -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Wed Oct 30 11:15:23 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chris Josephes wrote: > On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Dave Rolsky wrote: > > [ proposal snipped ] > > > Any takers? > > It sounds pretty interesting. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can make > it to the meeting today. There is no meeting today. It was last week. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message. From autarch at urth.org Wed Oct 30 11:57:19 2002 From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky) Date: Thu Aug 5 00:29:42 2004 Subject: [mplspm]: A project for MPM In-Reply-To: <002b01c2802b$efc920c0$0200000a@ptc.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Brian Parker wrote: > I think this is a great idea. Having just spent quite a bit of time try to > find the "best" date/time module, I know their is definitely a need to be > met. (We ended up using both Class::Date and Date::Calc.) > > I definitely will volunteer some amount of time. I have to weigh my time > commitments before I ask for a large chunk of the work. (We just had a baby > girl.) If we can get a bunch of people to each do 1-3 modules, we're all set. > Would we use pod for this? Would the format be similar to the poop doc: > http://poop.sourceforge.net/ That seems like a good idea. If people just send plain text email messages to the list I can put it all together into a POD document and get some sort of pod -> html conversion going. -dave /*================== www.urth.org we await the New Sun ==================*/ -------------------------------------------------- Minneapolis Perl Mongers mailing list To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@pm.org with "unsubscribe mpls" in the body of the message.