From alfiej at opera.com Sun Mar 4 12:21:33 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 07:21:33 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] REMINDER: Meeting is this Wednesday, the 7th of March 2012 Message-ID: <1330892493.29711.140661044707929.538583C0@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Perl Mongers, Just a friendly reminder that Melbourne Perl Mongers is this Wednesday (a week earlier than usual) and will start around 6:30pm: Opera Software Level 1, 91-97 William Street Melbourne CBD Jacinta will be giving a talk titled "Don't hate Unicode". This talk will cover the essentials of Unicode and how it affects things like regular expressions. If anyone else would like to present, feel free to email the list. Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Sun Mar 4 16:40:11 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:40:11 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] REMINDER: Meeting is this Wednesday, the 7th of March 2012 In-Reply-To: <1330892493.29711.140661044707929.538583C0@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1330892493.29711.140661044707929.538583C0@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4F540B6B.1030908@strategicdata.com.au> On 05/03/12 07:21, Alfie John wrote: > Hello Perl Mongers, > > Just a friendly reminder that Melbourne Perl Mongers is this Wednesday (a week earlier than usual) and will start around 6:30pm: > > Opera Software > Level 1, 91-97 William Street > Melbourne CBD > > Jacinta will be giving a talk titled "Don't hate Unicode". This talk will cover the essentials of Unicode and how it affects things like regular expressions. > > If anyone else would like to present, feel free to email the list. I'm really struggling with time to write a full-blown presentation (too many projects on the go) but I'd like to give a short talk on STOMP and RabbitMQ.. Basically an overview of what it does, and a few tips and tricks I've discovered along the way. From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Mon Mar 5 15:21:50 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 10:21:50 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Modern Perl 2011-2012 PDFs available for free Message-ID: <4F554A8E.2030101@strategicdata.com.au> Chromatic has put up the latest revised edition of Modern Perl (the book) online. http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2012/02/modern-perl-2011-2012-pdfs-available.html Cheers, Toby From alfiej at opera.com Tue Mar 6 12:59:37 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:59:37 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] REMINDER: Meeting tonight - Wednesday the 7th March 2012 Message-ID: <1331067577.20496.140661045714490.002E7A42@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Perl Mongers, Just a friendly reminder that Melbourne Perl Mongers is tonight (Wednesday the 7th March 2012) and will start around 6:30pm: Opera Software Level 1, 91-97 William Street Melbourne CBD Jacinta will be giving a talk titled "Don't hate Unicode" - Covering the essentials of Unicode and how it affects things like regular expressions. Toby will be giving a talk on STOMP and RabbitMQ - An overview of what it does, and a few tips and tricks I've discovered along the way. Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From greg.george at orica.com Wed Mar 7 18:38:50 2012 From: greg.george at orica.com (greg.george at orica.com) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 13:38:50 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] In answer to what version of unicode with what version of perl Message-ID: Here is the answer to Toby's "which version" question last night (from Unicode::Normalize) perl's version implemented Unicode version 5.6.1 3.0.1 5.7.2 3.1.0 5.7.3 3.1.1 (normalization is same as 3.1.0) 5.8.0 3.2.0 5.8.1-5.8.3 4.0.0 5.8.4-5.8.6 4.0.1 (normalization is same as 4.0.0) 5.8.7-5.8.8 4.1.0 5.10.0 5.0.0 5.8.9, 5.10.1 5.1.0 5.12.0-5.12.3 5.2.0 5.14.0 6.0.0 Regards, IT Shared Services Orica Australia Pty Ltd p. +613 9091 2492 | f. +613 9091 2444 | e. greg.george at orica.com a. 3/100 Victoria Prd, Melbourne, Vic, Australia 3001 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. This message is intended solely for the individual(s) and entity(s) addressed. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information. The use, copying or distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee, is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify postmaster at orica.com. The mailbox address from which this message has been sent is for business mail only. Mail sent to it may be subject to security scanning and delivery on non-business messages sent to this address may not occur. Thank you. *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Wed Mar 7 19:40:05 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:40:05 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting dates Message-ID: <4F582A15.70305@strategicdata.com.au> I note that the March meeting would be default fall on the day after the Easter holidays. I wondered if this will mean a bunch of people are likely to be on holiday still? From alfiej at opera.com Thu Mar 8 12:41:40 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 07:41:40 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting dates + talks In-Reply-To: <4F582A15.70305@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F582A15.70305@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <1331239300.11987.140661046690481.6D3AEF8E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hey, On Thu, Mar 8, 2012, at 02:40 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > I note that the March meeting would be default fall on the day after the > Easter holidays. I wondered if this will mean a bunch of people are > likely to be on holiday still? (I think you meant April) I've had a look at the calendar and it looks like I won't be able to make April (and will also be missing May). We don't have any talks yet, and nobody raised their hands during the meeting to present. Maybe wait for more responses to your email to decide if April is still on. So on that note, does anyone have any talks they would like to give for the next meeting? Or does anyone have any subjects they would like to hear more about? If you've wanted to learn about something in Perl, speak now... you never know if there is an expert willing to give a talk but just doesn't know if there's any interest in the subject! Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From greg.george at orica.com Thu Mar 8 13:24:40 2012 From: greg.george at orica.com (greg.george at orica.com) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 08:24:40 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting dates + talks In-Reply-To: <1331239300.11987.140661046690481.6D3AEF8E@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <4F582A15.70305@strategicdata.com.au> <1331239300.11987.140661046690481.6D3AEF8E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: I should be able to make April and hopefully will be able to add some more to the Unicode discussion. I also intend to have another spreadsheet related module available which I am more than happy to talk about - although it will not take long. Regards, IT Shared Services Orica Australia Pty Ltd p. +613 9091 2492 | f. +613 9091 2444 | e. greg.george at orica.com a. 3/100 Victoria Prd, Melbourne, Vic, Australia 3001 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: Alfie John To: Toby Corkindale , "melbourne-pm" Date: 09/03/2012 07:41 AM Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting dates + talks Sent by: melbourne-pm-bounces+greg.george=orica.com at pm.org Hey, On Thu, Mar 8, 2012, at 02:40 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > I note that the March meeting would be default fall on the day after the > Easter holidays. I wondered if this will mean a bunch of people are > likely to be on holiday still? (I think you meant April) I've had a look at the calendar and it looks like I won't be able to make April (and will also be missing May). We don't have any talks yet, and nobody raised their hands during the meeting to present. Maybe wait for more responses to your email to decide if April is still on. So on that note, does anyone have any talks they would like to give for the next meeting? Or does anyone have any subjects they would like to hear more about? If you've wanted to learn about something in Perl, speak now... you never know if there is an expert willing to give a talk but just doesn't know if there's any interest in the subject! Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com _______________________________________________ Melbourne-pm mailing list Melbourne-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. This message is intended solely for the individual(s) and entity(s) addressed. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information. The use, copying or distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee, is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify postmaster at orica.com. The mailbox address from which this message has been sent is for business mail only. Mail sent to it may be subject to security scanning and delivery on non-business messages sent to this address may not occur. Thank you. *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alfiej at opera.com Tue Mar 13 13:47:21 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:47:21 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 Message-ID: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Perl Mongers, At the previous meeting there was talk on upcoming presentations. Does anyone want to put up their hand? The next Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday, 11th of April 2012 and will start around 6:30pm: Strategic Data Level 2 51-55 Johnston street Fitzroy Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Tue Mar 13 23:59:20 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:59:20 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps Message-ID: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> Hi, Starman, a Plack webserver, is configured to have a certain number of worker children, which it forks. You may be familiar with the concept from using Apache and configuring it to have a min/max of workers? Well, on Starman it's fixed. (Which is probably better, as you're not going to get into situations where the number of workers spirals out of control due to lengthening request durations due to larger numbers of workers.) Anyway.. I want to have some way to measure how many processes are active at once, so I can tell when we're getting close to saturating the current number of workers. I could hack up a script that runs regularly, and counts the number of established connections to port 8080 or whatever, but.. surely this kind of thing has already been done? Any words of wisdom from the crowd? Cheers, Toby From ddick at iinet.net.au Wed Mar 14 00:51:56 2012 From: ddick at iinet.net.au (David Dick) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 18:51:56 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4F604E1C.2000302@iinet.net.au> On 03/14/2012 05:59 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > I could hack up a script that runs regularly, and counts the number of > established connections to port 8080 or whatever, but.. surely this kind > of thing has already been done? > > Any words of wisdom from the crowd? would building on a base such as http://search.cpan.org/~tonvoon/Nagios-Plugin-0.36/lib/Nagios/Plugin.pm and hooking it into the rest of your monitoring infrastructure make sense? From alfiej at opera.com Wed Mar 14 01:22:03 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:22:03 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: <4F604E1C.2000302@iinet.net.au> References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> <4F604E1C.2000302@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1331713323.15986.140661048971385.4FB217E5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hey, On Wed, Mar 14, 2012, at 06:51 PM, David Dick wrote: > On 03/14/2012 05:59 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > > I could hack up a script that runs regularly, and counts the number of > > established connections to port 8080 or whatever, but.. surely this kind > > of thing has already been done? > > > > Any words of wisdom from the crowd? > > would building on a base such as > http://search.cpan.org/~tonvoon/Nagios-Plugin-0.36/lib/Nagios/Plugin.pm > and hooking it into the rest of your monitoring infrastructure make > sense? I think what Toby wanted was to not reinvent the wheel. I think Parse::Netstat is what you might be after. Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From sam at nipl.net Wed Mar 14 05:33:02 2012 From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 23:33:02 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <20120314123302.GS10479@opal.nipl.net> Toby Corkindale wrote: > I could hack up a script that runs regularly, and counts the number > of established connections to port 8080 or whatever, but.. surely > this kind of thing has already been done? > > Any words of wisdom from the crowd? I can offer words of dubious sanity and unknown utility... Well, you could do it by touching and removing files (easy), sending messages to a central tracker on a pipe, poking and peeking a shared memory segment... A shell hack would be easiest, and I guess it's good enough: while true; do echo -n `date +%Y-%m-%d\ %H:%M:%S`" " netstat -n | sed 's/ */\t/' | awk '$5 == "127.0.0.1:8080" { print }' | wc -l sleep 30 done You could do similar in perl, perhaps a bit longer. I'm comfortable hacking things up in the shell. Sometimes translate them to perl or C. I found out today that perl in Linux can close 65536 unused file descriptors in under 0.1 seconds, that's quite good really. Forking and managing long-running processes from a web server turned out to be a bit tricky! Sam From sam at nipl.net Wed Mar 14 05:41:39 2012 From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 23:41:39 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: <1331713323.15986.140661048971385.4FB217E5@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> <4F604E1C.2000302@iinet.net.au> <1331713323.15986.140661048971385.4FB217E5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20120314124139.GT10479@opal.nipl.net> > I think what Toby wanted was to not reinvent the wheel. I think > Parse::Netstat is what you might be after. Good point, I'm a chronic wheel re-inventer... and most of mine turn out a bit square - hexagonal at best! Sam From damian at conway.org Wed Mar 14 13:22:36 2012 From: damian at conway.org (Damian Conway) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 07:22:36 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl-related talk at YOW! Nights next week Message-ID: Dear fellow Mongers, Just a heads up that I will be giving my infamous "Fun With Dead Languages" talk in Melbourne, Sydney, and Brisbane next week. Even though the blurb specifically says I won't be talking about Perl, I think we all know that's merely a "pedagogical facilitation" (i.e. a lie), mainly designed to lull unsuspecting Java and C# programmers. The details are: Date: Monday 19 March Venue: Jasper Hotel, 489 Elizabeth Street, Melbourne Time: 5.30-7.30pm Link: https://ynmelmarchconway-eorg.eventbrite.com/ Date: Tuesday 20 March Venue: Shelbourne Hotel, 200 Sussex Street, Sydney Time: 5.30-7.30pm Link: https://ynsydmarchconway-eorg.eventbrite.com/ Date: Wednesday 21 March Venue: Chifley at Lennons Hotel, 66 Queen Street Mall, Brisbane Time: 5.30-7.30pm Link: https://ynbrismarchconway-eorg.eventbrite.com/ If you'd like to come along, there's a $10 registration fee, which covers some high quality food and drink beforehand. You can register via the above links. The actual talking starts at 6pm each night. Hope to see some of you there, Damian From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Wed Mar 14 16:33:34 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 10:33:34 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4F612ACE.3070006@strategicdata.com.au> On 14/03/12 18:14, Andrew McN wrote: > Measure the number of open sockets perhaps? Some limitation die to > keep-Alive sockets. > > Sockets are probably better than looking at process states, but that's > also possible. I considered this, but there are many states sockets can be in, and not all of them indicate that a process is held open for them. (ie. There are pending open and pending close states which are handled in the kernel) I have also considered using an IPC semaphore flag, which you can atomically increment or decrement from any process, so you could put increments and decrements in appropriate parts of your code.. but I was really hoping that someone else had already created all of this! Surely monitoring the number of active Starman processes is an important metric for anyone using it in production? -Toby > On Mar 14, 2012 5:59 PM, "Toby Corkindale" > > wrote: > > Hi, > Starman, a Plack webserver, is configured to have a certain number > of worker children, which it forks. You may be familiar with the > concept from using Apache and configuring it to have a min/max of > workers? Well, on Starman it's fixed. (Which is probably better, as > you're not going to get into situations where the number of workers > spirals out of control due to lengthening request durations due to > larger numbers of workers.) > > Anyway.. I want to have some way to measure how many processes are > active at once, so I can tell when we're getting close to saturating > the current number of workers. > > I could hack up a script that runs regularly, and counts the number > of established connections to port 8080 or whatever, but.. surely > this kind of thing has already been done? > > Any words of wisdom from the crowd? > > > Cheers, > Toby > _________________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/__listinfo/melbourne-pm > > -- .signature From m.sharpe at developersatlarge.com Wed Mar 14 19:00:17 2012 From: m.sharpe at developersatlarge.com (Matt Sharpe) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 10:00:17 +0800 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: <4F612ACE.3070006@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> <4F612ACE.3070006@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: I was talking to Miyagawa about this and he mentioned Plack::Middleware::ServerStatus(::Lite); it does essentially what Apache's mod_status does and returns info on workers and active requests. Maybe something to look at? The Lite edition should do what you want if I understood your initial post correctly? Matt On 15 March 2012 07:33, Toby Corkindale < toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au> wrote: > On 14/03/12 18:14, Andrew McN wrote: > >> Measure the number of open sockets perhaps? Some limitation die to >> keep-Alive sockets. >> >> Sockets are probably better than looking at process states, but that's >> also possible. >> > > I considered this, but there are many states sockets can be in, and not > all of them indicate that a process is held open for them. > (ie. There are pending open and pending close states which are handled in > the kernel) > > I have also considered using an IPC semaphore flag, which you can > atomically increment or decrement from any process, so you could put > increments and decrements in appropriate parts of your code.. > > but I was really hoping that someone else had already created all of this! > Surely monitoring the number of active Starman processes is an important > metric for anyone using it in production? > > -Toby > > ______________________________**_________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/melbourne-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Wed Mar 14 19:26:01 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:26:01 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> <4F612ACE.3070006@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4F615339.2030907@strategicdata.com.au> On 15/03/12 13:00, Matt Sharpe wrote: > I was talking to Miyagawa about this and he mentioned > Plack::Middleware::ServerStatus(::Lite); it does essentially what > Apache's mod_status does and returns info on workers and active > requests. Maybe something to look at? The Lite edition should do what > you want if I understood your initial post correctly? That looks like what I'm after! It doesn't take into account io wait and keepalive sessions, unfortunately, but as long as there's a reverse proxy in front, those shouldn't be occurring, I think. Cheers! Toby > On 15 March 2012 07:33, Toby Corkindale > > wrote: > > On 14/03/12 18:14, Andrew McN wrote: > > Measure the number of open sockets perhaps? Some limitation die to > keep-Alive sockets. > > Sockets are probably better than looking at process states, but > that's > also possible. > > > I considered this, but there are many states sockets can be in, and > not all of them indicate that a process is held open for them. > (ie. There are pending open and pending close states which are > handled in the kernel) > > I have also considered using an IPC semaphore flag, which you can > atomically increment or decrement from any process, so you could put > increments and decrements in appropriate parts of your code.. > > but I was really hoping that someone else had already created all of > this! Surely monitoring the number of active Starman processes is an > important metric for anyone using it in production? > > -Toby > > _________________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/__listinfo/melbourne-pm > > > -- .signature From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Wed Mar 14 22:23:37 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:23:37 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Monitoring Starman apps In-Reply-To: <4F615339.2030907@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F6041C8.8090503@strategicdata.com.au> <4F612ACE.3070006@strategicdata.com.au> <4F615339.2030907@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4F617CD9.8050406@strategicdata.com.au> On 15/03/12 13:26, Toby Corkindale wrote: > On 15/03/12 13:00, Matt Sharpe wrote: >> I was talking to Miyagawa about this and he mentioned >> Plack::Middleware::ServerStatus(::Lite); it does essentially what >> Apache's mod_status does and returns info on workers and active >> requests. Maybe something to look at? The Lite edition should do what >> you want if I understood your initial post correctly? > > That looks like what I'm after! > > It doesn't take into account io wait and keepalive sessions, > unfortunately, but as long as there's a reverse proxy in front, those > shouldn't be occurring, I think. Just an update.. I've had a look at Plack::Middleware::ServerStatus::Lite and one of its dependencies, Parallel::Scoreboard. I'm not very confident in them after looking at the source. The scoreboard module looks like it could suffer from race conditions. (And some of the code to try and avoid update collisions looks.. interesting. Not in a good way.) The serverstatus module shells out to capture output from 'ps' via a regex and then compares it to the scoreboard, rather than being able to rely on it, which seems odd to me.. why isn't its own info reliable? I suspect the scoreboard never gets cleaned up when workers die :/ Still, it's a start. Toby From melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx Thu Mar 15 03:26:02 2012 From: melbourne-pm at popcorn.cx (Stephen Edmonds) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:26:02 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: I can reprise my talk from a few years ago about character encoding. It builds on what Jacinta was talking about with unicode, by covering how to read and write different character sets in HTML, email, etc. Stephen On 14 March 2012 07:47, Alfie John wrote: > Hello Perl Mongers, > > At the previous meeting there was talk on upcoming presentations. Does > anyone want to put up their hand? > > The next Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday, 11th of > April 2012 and will start around 6:30pm: > > ?Strategic Data > ?Level 2 > ?51-55 Johnston street > ?Fitzroy > > Alfie > > -- > ?Alfie John > ?alfiej at opera.com > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From alfiej at opera.com Thu Mar 15 17:39:43 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:39:43 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1331858383.14016.140661049829381.219B7BB5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hey Stephen, On Thu, Mar 15, 2012, at 09:26 PM, Stephen Edmonds wrote: > I can reprise my talk from a few years ago about character encoding. > It builds on what Jacinta was talking about with unicode, by covering > how to read and write different character sets in HTML, email, etc. Sounds good. Thanks for putting up your hand :) Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From rcrspindler at gmail.com Thu Mar 15 22:25:04 2012 From: rcrspindler at gmail.com (Richard Spindler) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:25:04 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: <1331858383.14016.140661049829381.219B7BB5@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1331858383.14016.140661049829381.219B7BB5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Hi, Somewhere down the track (i.e. not next catchup :)), if people are interested I can do a talk on systems automation in perl. It'll be low level, ie serial over IPMI and other stuff. You can all have a good laugh at how a Engineer with a C and PLC background approaches programming in Perl. Regards Richard On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Alfie John wrote: > Hey Stephen, > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012, at 09:26 PM, Stephen Edmonds wrote: >> I can reprise my talk from a few years ago about character encoding. >> It builds on what Jacinta was talking about with unicode, by covering >> how to read and write different character sets in HTML, email, etc. > > Sounds good. Thanks for putting up your hand :) > > Alfie > > -- > ?Alfie John > ?alfiej at opera.com > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm -- Mr. Richard Spindler rcrspindler at gmail.com From alfiej at opera.com Fri Mar 16 02:59:45 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:59:45 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1331858383.14016.140661049829381.219B7BB5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1331891985.31281.140661049966029.4C62C6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hey Richard, On Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 04:25 PM, Richard Spindler wrote: > Somewhere down the track (i.e. not next catchup :)), if people are > interested I can do a talk on systems automation in perl. Excellent, that would be great. > It'll be low level, ie serial over IPMI and other stuff. You can all > have a good laugh at how a Engineer with a C and PLC background > approaches programming in Perl. We'll try to keep the heckling down to a minimum ;) Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From jarich at perltraining.com.au Sat Mar 17 02:53:13 2012 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 20:53:13 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4F645F09.2040003@perltraining.com.au> On 14/03/12 07:47, Alfie John wrote: > At the previous meeting there was talk on upcoming presentations. Does > anyone want to put up their hand? I will have given a talk on modern Perl stuff by the end of March. It'll be interesting, but not educational. I can give it if you're interested. J From alfiej at opera.com Sun Mar 18 17:29:09 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:29:09 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: <4F645F09.2040003@perltraining.com.au> References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4F645F09.2040003@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <1332116949.4288.140661050901369.0EFB51A5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hey Jacinta, On Sat, Mar 17, 2012, at 08:53 PM, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > I will have given a talk on modern Perl stuff by the end of March. It'll > be interesting, but not educational. I can give it if you're interested. I doubt that it will not be education... I'm still skeptical on the new ways of doing things (I'm looking at you Moose) but I guess some day I'll have to bite the bullet (unfortunately I won't be able to make April's meeting). The more talks the better. That would be appreciated if you can :) Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From brong at fastmail.fm Sun Mar 18 17:56:34 2012 From: brong at fastmail.fm (Bron Gondwana) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:56:34 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: <1332116949.4288.140661050901369.0EFB51A5@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4F645F09.2040003@perltraining.com.au> <1332116949.4288.140661050901369.0EFB51A5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20120319005634.GA2766@launde.brong.net> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 11:29:09AM +1100, Alfie John wrote: > Hey Jacinta, > > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012, at 08:53 PM, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > > I will have given a talk on modern Perl stuff by the end of March. It'll > > be interesting, but not educational. I can give it if you're interested. > > I doubt that it will not be education... I'm still skeptical on the new > ways of doing things (I'm looking at you Moose) but I guess some day > I'll have to bite the bullet (unfortunately I won't be able to make > April's meeting). My main problem with all the new ways of doing things are: a) there are too bloody many of them b) they seem to have a half life of a couple of years, and then be replaced by the new hotness. If I wanted to spend my life chasing the latest silver bullet, I'd be programming in Ruby already with the rest of the rockstars. Dealing with DJabberd and the way 'use fields' was such a huge pile of suck going to 5.10, I'm over that shit already. Bron. From shlomif at shlomifish.org Sat Mar 24 11:02:49 2012 From: shlomif at shlomifish.org (Shlomi Fish) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:02:49 +0200 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Fw: Two Documents Restored from perl.net.au Message-ID: <20120324200249.1c0880c2@lap.shlomifish.org> Begin forwarded message: Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:00:32 +0200 From: Shlomi Fish To: Perl in Israel Subject: Two Documents Restored from perl.net.au Hi all. http://perl.net.au/ was a somewhat popular wiki for all things Perl. Then it was heavily spammed, and afterwards went completely offline for many months, and the admins have become busy. Luckily, in the past days I was able to restore some of the contents from the Wayback Machine, and place them here and here: * http://perl-begin.org/FAQs/freenode-perl/ - the Freenode #perl?s FAQ. * http://perl-begin.org/humour/ - a page collecting Perl Humour. I plan to restore more stuff. For how I restored it: I tried several scripts (and a CPAN module) I found online (which were hard to come by, and I was disappointed that apparently the Wayback Machine does not provide a Web API), and eventually used this script written in Python: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/286224-pulling-stuff-out-of-the-internet-archive-wayback-/ I had to modify it to not be recursive. Anyway, enjoy! Regards, Shlomi Fish -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What Makes Software Apps High Quality - http://shlom.in/sw-quality Every successful open source project will eventually spawn a sub?project. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ UNIX Fortune Cookies - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/ Become an awesome Perl ninja rockstar vampire zombie pirate. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . From pjf at perltraining.com.au Sun Mar 25 20:15:45 2012 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:15:45 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa Message-ID: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> G'day Everyone, I'm not affiliated with this, but if you're looking for a Perl job with a six figure salary, these are currently on seek: http://www.seek.com.au/Job/lead-senior-perl-developer-120k/in/melbourne-eastern-suburbs/21886052 Cheerio, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Sun Mar 25 20:24:57 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:24:57 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> On 26/03/12 14:15, Paul Fenwick wrote: > G'day Everyone, > > I'm not affiliated with this, but if you're looking for a Perl job with a > six figure salary, these are currently on seek: > > http://www.seek.com.au/Job/lead-senior-perl-developer-120k/in/melbourne-eastern-suburbs/21886052 > > Cheerio, > > Paul I'd noticed those pop up last week, and have been curious to know if the company involved has any members here on Perlmongers? Toby From alfiej at opera.com Tue Mar 27 13:52:49 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:52:49 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April, 2012 Message-ID: <1332881569.21118.140661054888569.09A0281F@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Perl Mongers, The next Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the 11th of April, 2012 and will start around 6:30pm: Strategic Data Level 2 51-55 Johnston street Fitzroy We have the following presentations: - Stephen will be covering how to read and write different character sets - Jacinta will be talking about Modern Perl - Greg may have a lightning talk about spreadsheet modules If anyone else would like to present, feel free to email the list. As for future meetings, does anyone have any topics they would like to see presented? Some topics that I think would be awesome to see include: - GUI development - System automation (Richard has raised his hand for this one) - Network programming - Security related stuff - Controlling hardware Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From tconnors+pmmelb at astro.swin.edu.au Wed Mar 28 23:57:03 2012 From: tconnors+pmmelb at astro.swin.edu.au (Tim Connors) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:57:03 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1331858383.14016.140661049829381.219B7BB5@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Mar 2012, Richard Spindler wrote: > Somewhere down the track (i.e. not next catchup :)), if people are > interested I can do a talk on systems automation in perl. > > It'll be low level, ie serial over IPMI and other stuff. You can all > have a good laugh at how a Engineer with a C and PLC background > approaches programming in Perl. Oooh yes please. I've done HPC data manipulation and systems work in perl (recycled most of the neurons though, so no point in me also talking about such topics), so I know where you're coming from in using Perl in entirely inappropriate settings. -- Tim Connors From tconnors+pmmelb at astro.swin.edu.au Wed Mar 28 23:58:20 2012 From: tconnors+pmmelb at astro.swin.edu.au (Tim Connors) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:58:20 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: <20120319005634.GA2766@launde.brong.net> References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4F645F09.2040003@perltraining.com.au> <1332116949.4288.140661050901369.0EFB51A5@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20120319005634.GA2766@launde.brong.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Mar 2012, Bron Gondwana wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 11:29:09AM +1100, Alfie John wrote: > > I doubt that it will not be education... I'm still skeptical on the new > > ways of doing things (I'm looking at you Moose) but I guess some day > > I'll have to bite the bullet (unfortunately I won't be able to make > > April's meeting). > > My main problem with all the new ways of doing things are: > > a) there are too bloody many of them > > b) they seem to have a half life of a couple of years, and then > be replaced by the new hotness. > > If I wanted to spend my life chasing the latest silver bullet, I'd > be programming in Ruby already with the rest of the rockstars. *like* > Dealing with DJabberd and the way 'use fields' was such a huge pile > of suck going to 5.10, I'm over that shit already. I think we're getting too old :( -- Tim Connors From tconnors+pmmelb at astro.swin.edu.au Thu Mar 29 00:22:22 2012 From: tconnors+pmmelb at astro.swin.edu.au (Tim Connors) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:22:22 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Mar 2012, Toby Corkindale wrote: > On 26/03/12 14:15, Paul Fenwick wrote: > > G'day Everyone, > > > > I'm not affiliated with this, but if you're looking for a Perl job with a > > six figure salary, these are currently on seek: > > > > http://www.seek.com.au/Job/lead-senior-perl-developer-120k/in/melbourne-eastern-suburbs/21886052 > > I'd noticed those pop up last week, and have been curious to know if the > company involved has any members here on Perlmongers? I do wish that recruitment firms were required to disclose *who* and *what*. I understand why they never would, but bah. -- Tim Connors From andrew at sericyb.com.au Thu Mar 29 00:26:05 2012 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:26:05 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> On 29/03/12 18:22, Tim Connors wrote: >>> http://www.seek.com.au/Job/lead-senior-perl-developer-120k/in/melbourne-eastern-suburbs/21886052 >> >> I'd noticed those pop up last week, and have been curious to know if the >> company involved has any members here on Perlmongers? > > I do wish that recruitment firms were required to disclose *who* and > *what*. I understand why they never would, but bah. They called me about these positions, and told me who and what. But they've decided to currently only fill one position, and it's now been filled already. Andrew From brong at fastmail.fm Thu Mar 29 01:09:41 2012 From: brong at fastmail.fm (Bron Gondwana) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:09:41 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4F645F09.2040003@perltraining.com.au> <1332116949.4288.140661050901369.0EFB51A5@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20120319005634.GA2766@launde.brong.net> Message-ID: <20120329080941.GA2470@launde.brong.net> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 05:58:20PM +1100, Tim Connors wrote: > I think we're getting too old :( Unfortunately, yes. The difficult part is attracting young people to Perl. I don't have any answers to that - the young people I get exposed to (interns and the like) think it's a boring language. Bron. From ickphum at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 02:03:38 2012 From: ickphum at gmail.com (Ian Macdonald) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:03:38 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: Just out of interest, are they anything to do with houses? On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Andrew Pam wrote: > On 29/03/12 18:22, Tim Connors wrote: > >>> > http://www.seek.com.au/Job/lead-senior-perl-developer-120k/in/melbourne-eastern-suburbs/21886052 > >> > >> I'd noticed those pop up last week, and have been curious to know if the > >> company involved has any members here on Perlmongers? > > > > I do wish that recruitment firms were required to disclose *who* and > > *what*. I understand why they never would, but bah. > > They called me about these positions, and told me who and what. But > they've decided to currently only fill one position, and it's now been > filled already. > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > -- Ian Macdonald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wigs at stirfried.org Thu Mar 29 03:03:42 2012 From: wigs at stirfried.org (wigs at stirfried.org) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:03:42 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: <20120329100342.GA21519@stirfried.org> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 08:03:38PM +1100, Ian Macdonald wrote: > Just out of interest, are they anything to do with houses? Very unlikely. -- Aaron Wigley From andrew at sericyb.com.au Thu Mar 29 04:57:53 2012 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:57:53 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Meeting - Wednesday the 11th of April 2012 In-Reply-To: <20120329080941.GA2470@launde.brong.net> References: <1331671641.31253.140661048767769.15128054@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4F645F09.2040003@perltraining.com.au> <1332116949.4288.140661050901369.0EFB51A5@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20120319005634.GA2766@launde.brong.net> <20120329080941.GA2470@launde.brong.net> Message-ID: <4F744E41.5020304@sericyb.com.au> On 29/03/12 19:09, Bron Gondwana wrote: > Unfortunately, yes. The difficult part is attracting young people to > Perl. I don't have any answers to that - the young people I get exposed > to (interns and the like) think it's a boring language. Teach them Perl 6 and/or Parrot. :) Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Pam Serious Cybernetics From andrew at sericyb.com.au Thu Mar 29 05:04:48 2012 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:04:48 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: <4F744FE0.6060308@sericyb.com.au> On 29/03/12 20:03, Ian Macdonald wrote: > Just out of interest, are they anything to do with houses? Got it in one. :) Andrew -- Andrew Pam Serious Cybernetics From andrew at sericyb.com.au Thu Mar 29 05:11:34 2012 From: andrew at sericyb.com.au (Andrew Pam) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:11:34 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: <20120329100342.GA21519@stirfried.org> References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> <20120329100342.GA21519@stirfried.org> Message-ID: <4F745176.4080000@sericyb.com.au> On 29/03/12 21:03, wigs at stirfried.org wrote: > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 08:03:38PM +1100, Ian Macdonald wrote: >> Just out of interest, are they anything to do with houses? > Very unlikely. Why do you say that? Andrew -- Andrew Pam Serious Cybernetics From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Thu Mar 29 17:55:26 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:55:26 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Two Perl jobs, 120+k and 100+k pa In-Reply-To: <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> References: <4F6FDF61.4090303@perltraining.com.au> <4F6FE189.7090402@strategicdata.com.au> <4F740E8D.7030806@sericyb.com.au> Message-ID: <4F75047E.70402@strategicdata.com.au> On 29/03/12 18:26, Andrew Pam wrote: > On 29/03/12 18:22, Tim Connors wrote: >>>> http://www.seek.com.au/Job/lead-senior-perl-developer-120k/in/melbourne-eastern-suburbs/21886052 >>> >>> I'd noticed those pop up last week, and have been curious to know if the >>> company involved has any members here on Perlmongers? >> >> I do wish that recruitment firms were required to disclose *who* and >> *what*. I understand why they never would, but bah. > > They called me about these positions, and told me who and what. But > they've decided to currently only fill one position, and it's now been > filled already. I hope the new Perl team there ends up on Melbourne.pm. Always good to expand the community. Cheers, Toby