From ts at meme.com.au Mon Jun 11 19:38:16 2012 From: ts at meme.com.au (Tony Smith) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:38:16 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] This weeks meeting date confusion In-Reply-To: <4FB1F3C1.7090706@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4FB1F3C1.7090706@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <0C49C41E-5188-4F34-BC0D-99B6F1C48889@meme.com.au> Wednesday is the 13th. LinkedIn says Wednesday 13th, Meetup says Thursday 14th. On 15/05/2012, at 4:12 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > Hi all, > our next meeting is scheduled to be Wednesday 14th of June, 2012. > > Potential talks I have so far are: > * What's new in Perl 5.16 > * Scott may be ready for a talk on Perl on BeagleBone by then (and if not, I might do a ten minute overview of what the BB is, at least) > > Does anyone else have a presentation they'd like to present at the next meeting? > > Regarding Perl 5.16: > The 2nd release candidate came out today, and if no showstopper bugs are found, 5.16.0 should be out in a week from now. > > > Cheers, > Toby On 05/06/2012, at 10:45 PM, Melbourne Perl Mongers Group Members wrote: > > > > Melbourne Perl Mongers > > > > > > > > June 5, 2012 > > Latest: Discussions (1) > > > New Discussions (1) > > June Meeting - 13th June 2012 > > Started by Toby Corkindale, Holistic software solution architect > > Like ? Flag > > > > > Don't want to receive email notifications? Adjust your message settings. > Stop inappropriate content the moment it is posted. Send me an email for each new discussion ? > Do you know anybody that might like this group? Invite others to join ? > LinkedIn values your privacy. At no time has LinkedIn made your email address available to any other LinkedIn user without your permission. ? 2011, LinkedIn Corporation. > > > > > On 23/05/2012, at 12:45 PM, Melbourne Perl Mongers wrote: > > > > NEW MEETUP > June 2012 MPM - BeagleBone Edition > Melbourne Perl Mongers > Added by Adam Clarke > Thursday, June 14, 2012 > 6:30 PM > Strategic Data Pty Ltd > Level 2 / 51-55 Johnston Street, Fitzroy > Melbourne > Will you attend? > Yes > No > > Sponsored by Safari Books Online and Strategic Data Pty Ltd Tony Smith Complex Systems Analyst Melbourne, Australia http://www.ynotds.com/ Giving thanks to the space, time, energy, matter and other lives that have allowed me to tell my lies on this old and damp ball of rock. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: logo_emails_trans_98x24.png Type: image/png Size: 1013 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 333d584.png Type: image/jpeg Size: 1515 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: logo_52x35.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2867 bytes Desc: not available URL: From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Mon Jun 11 19:39:59 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:39:59 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] This weeks meeting date confusion In-Reply-To: <0C49C41E-5188-4F34-BC0D-99B6F1C48889@meme.com.au> References: <4FB1F3C1.7090706@strategicdata.com.au> <0C49C41E-5188-4F34-BC0D-99B6F1C48889@meme.com.au> Message-ID: <4FD6ABFF.3090009@strategicdata.com.au> On 12/06/12 12:38, Tony Smith wrote: > Wednesday is the 13th. LinkedIn says Wednesday 13th, Meetup says > Thursday 14th. I will have a chat with the fellow who manages the Meetup group.. The meeting is planned for a regular Wednesday evening. Thanks for pointing this out, Toby > On 15/05/2012, at 4:12 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > >> Hi all, >> our next meeting is scheduled to be Wednesday 14th of June, 2012. >> >> Potential talks I have so far are: >> * What's new in Perl 5.16 >> * Scott may be ready for a talk on Perl on BeagleBone by then (and if >> not, I might do a ten minute overview of what the BB is, at least) >> >> Does anyone else have a presentation they'd like to present at the >> next meeting? >> >> Regarding Perl 5.16: >> The 2nd release candidate came out today, and if no showstopper bugs >> are found, 5.16.0 should be out in a week from now. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Toby > > > On 05/06/2012, at 10:45 PM, Melbourne Perl Mongers Group Members wrote: > >> >> Melbourne Perl Mongers >> >> LinkedIn >> >> >> >> >> >> June 5, 2012 >> >> *Latest:* Discussions (1) >> >> >> >> New Discussions (1) >> >> *June Meeting - 13th June 2012* >> >> >> Started by Toby Corkindale, Holistic software solution architect >> >> >> Like >> >> ? Flag >> >> >> >> >> Don't want to receive email notifications? Adjust your message >> settings. >> >> Stop inappropriate content the moment it is posted. Send me an email >> for each new discussion ? >> >> Do you know anybody that might like this group? Invite others to join >> ? >> >> >> LinkedIn values your privacy. At no time has LinkedIn made your email >> address available to any other LinkedIn user without your permission. >> ? 2011, LinkedIn Corporation. >> >> >> > > > On 23/05/2012, at 12:45 PM, Melbourne Perl Mongers wrote: > >> Meetup >> >> NEW MEETUP >> June 2012 MPM - BeagleBone Edition >> >> Melbourne Perl Mongers >> Added by Adam Clarke >> Thursday, June 14, 2012 >> 6:30 PM >> Strategic Data Pty Ltd >> Level 2 / 51-55 Johnston Street, Fitzroy >> Melbourne >> Will you attend? >> Yes >> >> >> No >> >> >> >> Sponsored by Safari Books Online >> and Strategic >> Data Pty Ltd > > > > > Tony Smith > Complex Systems Analyst > Melbourne, Australia > http://www.ynotds.com/ > Giving thanks to the space, time, energy, matter and other lives that > have allowed me to tell my lies on this old and damp ball of rock. > -- .signature From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Jun 12 17:34:32 2012 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:34:32 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] This weeks meeting date confusion In-Reply-To: <4FD6ABFF.3090009@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4FB1F3C1.7090706@strategicdata.com.au> <0C49C41E-5188-4F34-BC0D-99B6F1C48889@meme.com.au> <4FD6ABFF.3090009@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <709FB3BA-6439-433C-8E7B-22BDC3712840@dd.com.au> Hey Melbourne PM I am coming tonight. Please forgive my unpreparedness - I was hoping to do a really good demo, but no time (kids, server crashes, work, you know it)... But I have in my bag: * Self contained logging power metre I built from an Arduino that can measure 1/2 mA to 1.5A onto an SD Card * Raspberry Pi - which I have not tried Perl on but we could :-) * Beagle Bone including daughter board - where I do regularly run Perl and C including Serial ports and some demo code in PerlBone I have written - we can definitely play with that :-) Scott From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Tue Jun 12 21:25:13 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:25:13 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl-mongers TONIGHT Message-ID: <4FD81629.1080901@strategicdata.com.au> Hello Perlmongers, The June 2012 meeting of the Melbourne Perlmongers will be tonight, Wednesday the 13th of June. We will have Scott Penrose demonstrating Perl running on some embedded ARM chipsets, and I will through in a little demo along the same lines as well. We'll also have a look at Perl 5.16's new features. There will be time for lightning talks, if anyone else has something to present? Strategic Data will be hosting the meeting tonight, at: Level 2, 51-55 Johnston street, Fitzroy, 3065 We will start at 18:30, and some food and drink will be provided. See you tonight, Toby From rob at eatenbyagrue.org Tue Jun 12 22:50:19 2012 From: rob at eatenbyagrue.org (Robert Norris) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:19 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl-mongers TONIGHT In-Reply-To: <4FD81629.1080901@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4FD81629.1080901@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: > We'll also have a look at Perl 5.16's new features. > > There will be time for lightning talks, if anyone else has something to > present? I can do a short talk on recursive functions and the new __SUB__ token in 5.16 if you like. Cheers, Rob. From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Tue Jun 12 22:53:10 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:53:10 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl-mongers TONIGHT In-Reply-To: References: <4FD81629.1080901@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4FD82AC6.4060506@strategicdata.com.au> On 13/06/12 15:50, Robert Norris wrote: >> We'll also have a look at Perl 5.16's new features. >> >> There will be time for lightning talks, if anyone else has something to >> present? > > I can do a short talk on recursive functions and the new __SUB__ token > in 5.16 if you like. Sure, that'd be great :) From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Wed Jun 13 00:37:06 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:37:06 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl-mongers TONIGHT In-Reply-To: <4FD81629.1080901@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4FD81629.1080901@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4FD84322.9080603@strategicdata.com.au> On 13/06/12 14:25, Toby Corkindale wrote: > Hello Perlmongers, > The June 2012 meeting of the Melbourne Perlmongers will be tonight, > Wednesday the 13th of June. > > We will have Scott Penrose demonstrating Perl running on some embedded > ARM chipsets, and I will through in a little demo along the same lines > as well. > > We'll also have a look at Perl 5.16's new features. > > There will be time for lightning talks, if anyone else has something to > present? I've been a bit ill lately and don't feel like I've prepared well for the Perl 5.16 talk; if it's not going to disappoint people much, I think I'll pass on it tonight. We'll still have * The two BeagleBone, Arduino and Raspberry Pi Perl demos from Scott & I * Robert's talk on recursive functions and the new __SUB__ token in 5.16 See you tonight, Toby From Martin.G.Ryan at team.telstra.com Wed Jun 13 00:40:38 2012 From: Martin.G.Ryan at team.telstra.com (Ryan, Martin G) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:40:38 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl-mongers TONIGHT In-Reply-To: <4FD84322.9080603@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4FD81629.1080901@strategicdata.com.au> <4FD84322.9080603@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <589EE331794E0B4DA62A9ADE89BCB4057FCAB5582E@WSMSG3103V.srv.dir.telstra.com> > ... if it's not going to disappoint people much, I think I'll pass on it tonight. > We'll still have * The two BeagleBone, Arduino and Raspberry Pi Perl demos from Scott & I * Robert's talk on recursive functions and the new __SUB__ token in 5.16 Might be a good idea to save it for when we're scratching for content anyway... From rob at eatenbyagrue.org Wed Jun 13 04:03:28 2012 From: rob at eatenbyagrue.org (Robert Norris) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:03:28 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Recursion Message-ID: Hi all, Here's some further reading from tonight's talk about recursion: My examples: http://eatenbyagrue.org/f/recursion.tar.gz chromatic's short intro to __SUB__: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2012/05/the-current-sub-in-perl-516.html Mike Vanier's detailed derivation of the Y-combinator: http://mvanier.livejournal.com/2897.html Aristotle's shorter Perlish version of same: http://web.archive.org/web/20110716162255/http://use.perl.org/~Aristotle/journal/30896 Cheers, Rob. From scottp at dd.com.au Wed Jun 13 04:16:18 2012 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:16:18 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Beagle Bone Speed, PDL. Message-ID: <0FDE41F0-0FA1-42AD-ADF0-06D7BEF0DE6B@dd.com.au> Tonight I said that programming via userland SPI was slower. Toby rightly pointed out that it is faster on a beagle bone because the cpu is so fast. Just to clarify, I meant compared to bare metal, I think I said compared to Arduino :-) Sorry Toby. We have talked about combining our modules. Most of the code that I have is already covered in Toby's code. And we did a quick chat before we left, and worked out we can wrap the Arduino Compatible interface around Toby code, and therefore still provide both. My main motivation is to try and promote perl in ARM embedded systems. No need to compete with Python and NodeJS but it would be good to be at least visible. In scientific circles people mostly use MatLab, but most of the younger programmers also use Python, specifically PyPy and Nympy - and have never heard of PDL. I know that some of it is because it is always more fun to program something new, bugs to fix, you can actually contribute, instead of using standard. But I think part of it is lack of exposure. How to fix, no idea :-) Many questions tonight were about where to start as a beginner. My questions would mainly be dependent on project. Beagle Bone is harder to connect electrically (lower tolerances, like 3.3 on Digital IO and 1.8 on Analogue IO). Hardware libraries to connect to just about anything are abundant in Arduino, but can sometimes be harder to write if you are writing a new one. If you want to do something simple, you can write a few lines of code on the Arduino, it will run forever, and hardly use any power. To get started with a Raspbery PI even creating the SD card can take longer. But then you have to maintain it. It is still a linux system with a disk. You can still get corruption etc. My house used to run on a linux box, but now runs off one Arduino. Number of lines, reliability of code and hardware is awesome. Now contrast that with some more complicated projects. Lets say you needed a Web interface, wanted to get sound input from a microphone, did some high end maths (FFT), connected to a laser and an LCD. That is possible on the bare metal AVR, but it will be harder to get right, especially the web server. If you wanted to build a web server though that did something simple, like just returned the power output from a device, or the state of some pins - then the code would probably be comparable but the AVR will never need to be rebooted and will still be working when it is turned on in 10 years time. Now imagine building a Wireless access point with an AVR. Yuck. You can then cope with occasional restarts (rare yes, but does happen). Now build something production, like a smart metre, would you use linux now - maybe? Probably not, bare metal ARM or AVR or similar would be better. So you see, it all depends what you are building, rather than beginner level. Beagle Bone, for beginner also requires linux knowledge. Either way, you only need a USB cable and your laptop running linux, windows or mac os x - they are all just as easy as each other. BTW. You can work bare metal on the BeagleBone too - and you can start with a large set of libraries that already have been written for all the peripherals attached released by TI - now that is hard to use, and I will probably not even use it for my project I talked about. Options options... Another Arduino benefit is price. You can buy a unit for as little as $16. That argument goes away when you add more peripherals, e.g. add Ethernet and multiple pins, and you now are in the Arduino Mega space, which is about the same price as a Beagle Bone. And in comes Raspberry Pi at $25 or $35 with ethernet. Game changer. Probably, especially for anything with a screen. I would not recommend to anyone starting with a Beagle Bone. Buy yourself a cheap Arduino and start with that. When you project needs more, or you have more time, then move to the Beagle Bone. The exception to this is if you need mostly a computer, and only a little bit hardware (project like Toby which is mostly Maths, USB Microphones, SSH etc). BTW. I completely forgot to bring another project - my kids keyboard. This is a USB keyboard connected to our media centre. It uses a arcade style old joystick and big arcade buttons. The buttons are programmed to be things like Media Volume, as well as hot keys to run things like Boxee/XBMC/Plex. They run on a little board called a Teensy 2.0. These are $12 or $16 (can't remember) online and ar Arduino compatible board , tiny, but in code emulate a USB Mass storage, Keyboard, Serial port, Joystick and MIDI. You can build your own Joystick with it using just some form of variable resistors. I also built a MIDI drum machine, using Piezo speakers as the inputs. And to program it, USB cable :-) Scooter From tconnors at rather.puzzling.org Wed Jun 13 22:35:11 2012 From: tconnors at rather.puzzling.org (Tim Connors) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:35:11 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Beagle Bone Speed, PDL. In-Reply-To: <0FDE41F0-0FA1-42AD-ADF0-06D7BEF0DE6B@dd.com.au> References: <0FDE41F0-0FA1-42AD-ADF0-06D7BEF0DE6B@dd.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2012, Scott Penrose wrote: > In scientific circles people mostly use MatLab, but most of the younger > programmers also use Python, specifically PyPy and Nympy - and have > never heard of PDL. I know that some of it is because it is always more > fun to program something new, bugs to fix, you can actually contribute, > instead of using standard. But I think part of it is lack of exposure. > How to fix, no idea :-) I wish I was still in science :( I only discovered PDL when a visiting astronomer asked me as sysadmin to install it on the visiting astronomers' computer. Would have been useful in my thesis given that it was a mixture of fortran and perl and opengl. In debian, it's trivial to install. apt-get install perldl. In redhat, not so. Half of the installation bugs in the bugtracker are mine, and in the end I just ended up not installing it since the visiting astronomer in question was KGB, and he started bringing his own laptop because of us tardy sysadmins. I can't install or promote it at my current job at the Bureau, because we have an IDL guy and $expensiveFOO licences. And we have numpy and scipy already packaged in EPEL for the young hip guys. And I was the main guy behind the new policy of not installing custom software without it being properly packaged first. Most scientific institutions unfortunately use RHEL or SuSE. Get it packaged for them, and then they (usually shortstaffed) can install it. q : do { So, is it packaged in fedora ? try to get it pushed to RHEL : get someone to package it for fedora ; goto q ; } > Another Arduino benefit is price. You can buy a unit for as little as > $16. That argument goes away when you add more peripherals, e.g. add > Ethernet and multiple pins, and you now are in the Arduino Mega space, > which is about the same price as a Beagle Bone. > > And in comes Raspberry Pi at $25 or $35 with ethernet. Game changer. > Probably, especially for anything with a screen. Precisely. My last look at Arduinos was beyond my pricerange for the simple cheap projects I would love to do in my copious free time. What's the cheapest arduino with ethernet and at least 1 IO pin (don't need any capes or shields - as long as I can wirewrap a single pin to some vero board)? Got any local suppliers? I know about RS for the rasperry pi, and have signed up for future notifications. If I can suspend the rasperry pi with just a single ethernet and IO pin, then I can afford to wake it up for 5 seconds every minute and I don't care about the 3W it uses when on for those 5 seconds. I'm a linux guy, being linux is a feature, not a bug :) -- Tim Connors From kahlil.hodgson at dealmax.com.au Thu Jun 14 05:21:14 2012 From: kahlil.hodgson at dealmax.com.au (Kahlil Hodgson) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:21:14 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Beagle Bone Speed, PDL. In-Reply-To: References: <0FDE41F0-0FA1-42AD-ADF0-06D7BEF0DE6B@dd.com.au> Message-ID: <4FD9D73A.8080104@dealmax.com.au> Hey Scooter, Thanks for your talk on on Wednesday. Much fun. Had a quick look at PDL on the tram this morning and it looks pretty cool. I'm quite keen to try this out for graphing financial data. On 14/06/12 15:35, Tim Connors wrote: > In debian, it's trivial to install. apt-get install perldl. In redhat, > not so. Half of the installation bugs in the bugtracker are mine, and in > the end I just ended up not installing it since the visiting astronomer in > question was KGB, and he started bringing his own laptop because of us > tardy sysadmins. Installs perfectly on Fedora 17 yum install perl-PDL Bang! Get the full kit, so its probably possible on RHEL. Did a quick try on CentOS 6. Yup, fine. Did a quick try on CentOS 5 and got various dependency errors. Looks like there are only 3 packages with genuine issues: libXft-2.1.10-1.1.x86_64 from base libXrender-0.9.1-3.1.x86_64 from base perl-Tk-804.029-1.el5.rf.x86_64 from rpmforge The perl-PDL package seems to be coming from RPMForge so a gather its a partial back port. I'd be talking to those guys to get it fixed, though it may not be technically feasible: libXft and libXrender are probably required by a lot of other packages and upgrading them to the required versions may break too many other parts of the system. May be _easier_ to move to RHEL6 than to try to solve a very complicated dependency problem at that the RHEL5 level. By the way, as I learned recently from a conversation with a MPM member and subsequence investigations, the redhat bug tracker is not really being tracked by redhat any more. If you want redhat response you have to use the official support channel. If you are using CentOS, just email the CentOS list: there are people there with full RHEL subscriptions that are more than willing to raise the issue on your behalf. Happy Hacking! Kal -- Kahlil (Kal) Hodgson GPG: C9A02289 Head of Technology (m) +61 (0) 4 2573 0382 DealMax Pty Ltd (w) +61 (0) 3 9008 5281 Suite 1415 401 Docklands Drive Docklands VIC 3008 Australia "All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer." -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 From alfiej at opera.com Sun Jun 17 14:34:03 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:34:03 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] July's meeting? Message-ID: <1339968843.28481.140661090437517.6F581443@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Perl Mongers, Thanks to Toby and Strategic Data for organising the previous meetings while I was on leave. Opera Software are able to host the next meeting on the 11th of July. Is anyone available to give a talk for July? Or is there any subject that people want to listen to, in the hope that somebody else might give a talk on? Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From alfiej at opera.com Tue Jun 26 14:31:37 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:31:37 +1000 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] July's meeting? In-Reply-To: <1339968843.28481.140661090437517.6F581443@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1339968843.28481.140661090437517.6F581443@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1340746297.9864.140661094411937.632AAC83@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Perl Mongers, I still haven't heard from anyone about giving a talk for July. Did anyone want to put up their hand? Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com On Mon, Jun 18, 2012, at 07:34 AM, Alfie John wrote: > Hello Perl Mongers, > > Thanks to Toby and Strategic Data for organising the previous meetings > while I was on leave. > > Opera Software are able to host the next meeting on the 11th of July. > > Is anyone available to give a talk for July? Or is there any subject > that people want to listen to, in the hope that somebody else might give > a talk on? > > Alfie > > -- > Alfie John > alfiej at opera.com > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm