From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Mon Feb 6 15:53:27 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:53:27 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Reminder: Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting tomorrow! In-Reply-To: <1327438450.27566.140661027540045@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1327438450.27566.140661027540045@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4F3067F7.8090009@strategicdata.com.au> Perl mongers! Just a reminder that our monthly meeting will be tomorrow, on Wednesday the 8th of February. Strategic Data will provide some pizza and refreshments to attendees. Further details are below.. -Toby -------- Original Message -------- From: Alfie John Hello Perl Mongers, This month the Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the 8th of February. So far we have the following talks: - Sub::Sampling and Sub::Space by Brad Bowman - Don't hate Unicode by Jacinta Richardson If you would also like give a talk, let us know. Also, if anybody is wanting to hear a talk about some cool new module or how to do certain things in Perl, speak up because somebody else might be wanting to give a talk on the subject but didn't think there was any interest. The meeting will start around 6:30pm at: Strategic Data Level 2 51-55 Johnston Street Fitzroy VIC Alfie From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Tue Feb 7 21:23:33 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:23:33 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] TONIGHT - Melbourne Perl Mongers In-Reply-To: <4F320517.6050801@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F320517.6050801@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4F3206D5.9080907@strategicdata.com.au> Hi every, The Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be held this evening, at 6:30pm. It looks like Jacinta is going to have to pull out due to illness, but we still have Brad Bowman giving his talk, which he describes as: Sub::Sampling Sub::Space Sub::* is an interesting namespace. 153 Registered in CPAN, many more unregistered. This talk is a tour of some of the curious bits. I?ll quickly cover some broad themes and then look at some of the more interesting ones in greater detail. We will then have some time for lightning talks, and then a quick discussion about who will be taking responsibility for organising the monthly meetings in the future. The meeting will be hosted at: Strategic Data Level 2 51-55 Johnston Street Fitzroy VIC See you all later, Toby From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Wed Feb 8 21:23:51 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:23:51 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Notes from last night's meeting Message-ID: <4F335867.5090003@strategicdata.com.au> Hi all, We had a lively discussion of unicode at last night's meeting, followed by some discussion about how we could promote the group. It was suggested that we create LinkedIn and MeetUp groups for the Melbourne Perl Mongers. I've created a LinkedIn group, here: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Melbourne-Perl-Mongers-4295146? I believe a couple of people said they'd be able to create the MeetUp groups - I'm not that familiar with it, so if you're volunteering to do it, please go ahead :) The existing Facebook group is at: http://www.facebook.com/groups/146370755427693/ Cheers, Toby From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Wed Feb 8 23:19:58 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:19:58 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website Message-ID: <4F33739E.2090309@strategicdata.com.au> Hi, The current Melbourne.pm website is a bit outdated, see: http://melbourne.pm.org/ I've hacked one up with updated information, and a slightly more modern style, see: http://dryft.net/melbourne.pm/ However I can't do good HTML design to save my life, so I thought I'd put it out there for discussion.. Thoughts? -Toby From list at bereft.net Thu Feb 9 14:20:51 2012 From: list at bereft.net (Brad Bowman) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:20:51 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Sub::* talk slides Message-ID: <4F3446C3.70908@bereft.net> Hello, The slides for the Sub::Sampling Sub::Space talk: HTML/JS: http://bowman.github.com/subspace-talk/#(1) PDF: http://bowman.github.com/subspace-talk/slides.pdf Source slides.txt in asciidoc: https://github.com/bowman/subspace-talk Brad From adam.clarke at strategicdata.com.au Thu Feb 9 16:48:18 2012 From: adam.clarke at strategicdata.com.au (Adam Clarke) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:48:18 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website In-Reply-To: <4F33739E.2090309@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F33739E.2090309@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <0B51D518-F47B-45B5-B74E-F55C59724C5C@strategicdata.com.au> Hi MPM, Has anyone started the MeetUp bit yet? If not, I am happy to do that. Cheers On 09/02/2012, at 6:19 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > Hi, > The current Melbourne.pm website is a bit outdated, see: > http://melbourne.pm.org/ > > I've hacked one up with updated information, and a slightly more modern style, see: > http://dryft.net/melbourne.pm/ > > However I can't do good HTML design to save my life, so I thought I'd put it out there for discussion.. > > Thoughts? > > -Toby > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From alfiej at opera.com Thu Feb 9 17:56:51 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:56:51 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website Message-ID: <1328839011.6389.140661034595185@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi Adam, On Fri, Feb 10, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Adam Clarke wrote: > Has anyone started the MeetUp bit yet? If not, I am happy to do that. It hasn't be setup yet, so feel free :) Thanks. Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From alfiej at opera.com Thu Feb 9 18:11:40 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:11:40 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Notes from last night's meeting Message-ID: <1328839900.7751.140661034599861@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012, at 04:23 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > I've created a LinkedIn group, here: > http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Melbourne-Perl-Mongers-4295146? > > The existing Facebook group is at: > http://www.facebook.com/groups/146370755427693/ Cool. When I send out the monthly meetings, I'll also post to the Linkedin and Facebook groups. Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From ts at meme.com.au Thu Feb 9 19:15:09 2012 From: ts at meme.com.au (Tony Smith) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:15:09 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website In-Reply-To: <0B51D518-F47B-45B5-B74E-F55C59724C5C@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F33739E.2090309@strategicdata.com.au> <0B51D518-F47B-45B5-B74E-F55C59724C5C@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <0DE2B6E2-0D91-4C16-B837-19332A67B856@meme.com.au> Adam, I was the other possible, but much better somebody young than somebody old. Now I just need to decide which of several other projects to bust my third MeetUp on. On 10/02/2012, at 11:48 AM, Adam Clarke wrote: > Hi MPM, > > Has anyone started the MeetUp bit yet? If not, I am happy to do that. > > Cheers > On 09/02/2012, at 6:19 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > >> Hi, >> The current Melbourne.pm website is a bit outdated, see: >> http://melbourne.pm.org/ >> >> I've hacked one up with updated information, and a slightly more >> modern style, see: >> http://dryft.net/melbourne.pm/ >> >> However I can't do good HTML design to save my life, so I thought >> I'd put it out there for discussion.. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> -Toby >> _______________________________________________ >> Melbourne-pm mailing list >> Melbourne-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm Tony Smith http://www.ynotds.com/ Complex Systems Analyst Melbourne, Australia From adam.clarke at strategicdata.com.au Thu Feb 9 19:15:38 2012 From: adam.clarke at strategicdata.com.au (Adam Clarke) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:15:38 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website In-Reply-To: <1328839011.6389.140661034595185@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1328839011.6389.140661034595185@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <83D7BC9E-BF3D-4940-9CF9-7C57E0F1E449@strategicdata.com.au> On 10/02/2012, at 12:56 PM, Alfie John wrote: > On Fri, Feb 10, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Adam Clarke wrote: >> Has anyone started the MeetUp bit yet? If not, I am happy to do that. > > It hasn't be setup yet, so feel free :) http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Perl-Mongers/ Let me know if anybody has any suggestions for changes. Cheers -- Adam From rjenkins at rjj.id.au Wed Feb 15 19:34:58 2012 From: rjenkins at rjj.id.au (Russell Jenkins) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:34:58 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website In-Reply-To: <4F33739E.2090309@strategicdata.com.au> References: <4F33739E.2090309@strategicdata.com.au> Message-ID: <4F3C7962.6020205@rjj.id.au> On 9/02/12 6:19 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > Hi, > The current Melbourne.pm website is a bit outdated, see: > http://melbourne.pm.org/ Strategic Data offered some time from their designer to spruce up Toby's revamp of the melbourne.pm.org website. The redesign (sans apple touch icons) has just hit the server. Enjoy! Please send any suggestions / additions / errors to the list. Cheers, Russell. From alfiej at opera.com Wed Feb 15 19:56:22 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:56:22 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website In-Reply-To: <4F3C7962.6020205@rjj.id.au> Message-ID: <1329364582.29035.140661037190201@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012, at 02:34 PM, Russell Jenkins wrote: > On 9/02/12 6:19 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: > > Hi, > > The current Melbourne.pm website is a bit outdated, see: > > http://melbourne.pm.org/ > Strategic Data offered some time from their designer to spruce up Toby's > revamp of the melbourne.pm.org website. > > The redesign (sans apple touch icons) has just hit the server. Enjoy! > Please send any suggestions / additions / errors to the list. Wow nice! I contacted the admins of http://pm.org to find out the credentials of http://melbourne.pm.org. Looks like it's already taken care of. Thanks guys :) Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From adrian at ash-blue.org Wed Feb 15 20:08:37 2012 From: adrian at ash-blue.org (Adrian Masters) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 15:08:37 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] New/Updated website In-Reply-To: <1329364582.29035.140661037190201@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1329364582.29035.140661037190201@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Looks good - information packed but clear & concise, with a clean layout. Thanks to all involved for your effort. Ad. On 16/02/2012, at 2:56 PM, Alfie John wrote: > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012, at 02:34 PM, Russell Jenkins wrote: >> On 9/02/12 6:19 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote: >>> Hi, >>> The current Melbourne.pm website is a bit outdated, see: >>> http://melbourne.pm.org/ >> Strategic Data offered some time from their designer to spruce up Toby's >> revamp of the melbourne.pm.org website. >> >> The redesign (sans apple touch icons) has just hit the server. Enjoy! >> Please send any suggestions / additions / errors to the list. > > Wow nice! > > I contacted the admins of http://pm.org to find out the credentials of http://melbourne.pm.org. Looks like it's already taken care of. > > Thanks guys :) > > Alfie > > -- > Alfie John > alfiej at opera.com > _______________________________________________ > Melbourne-pm mailing list > Melbourne-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm From tconnors at rather.puzzling.org Sun Feb 19 23:24:45 2012 From: tconnors at rather.puzzling.org (Tim Connors) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:24:45 +1100 (EST) Subject: [Melbourne-pm] When is an lvalue an lvalue? Message-ID: Got a strange one: substr EXPR,OFFSET,LENGTH If OFFSET and LENGTH specify a substring that is partly outside the string, only the part within the string is returned. If the substring is beyond either end of the string, substr() returns the undefined value and produces a warning. When used as an lvalue, specifying a substring that is entirely outside the string raises an exception. Here's an example showing the behavior for boundary cases: And yet the following exits: $md5->add(substr($$dataRef, $seekPosn, 131072)); (part of lib/BackupPC/Lib.pm in backuppc, triggered by BackupPC_tarPCCopy - I'm pretty sure it's raising an excepting, but the path is tortuous, not least because I wasn't quite sure why the exit code was 0, but then I just realised I was then piping the output to tar on another machine. duh) My workaround stops the premature bailing out: my $tmp_str = substr($$dataRef, $seekPosn, 131072); #print STDERR "gothere3\n"; $md5->add($tmp_str); Not really an lvalue, is it? I can sort of see why it does that - it doesn't know that the value is being passed to a function that isn't then going to modify its arguments, but ... counterintuitive. I wonder if there's another way substr could have handled the returning of null data that pleases legacy programs that don't follow perl best practices. If only perl were lisp, then it would know its value wasn't going to be modified :) -- Tim Connors From jarich at perltraining.com.au Mon Feb 20 18:17:23 2012 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:17:23 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] When is an lvalue an lvalue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F42FEB3.2000608@perltraining.com.au> On 20/02/12 18:24, Tim Connors wrote: > And yet the following exits: > > $md5->add(substr($$dataRef, $seekPosn, 131072)); > > (part of lib/BackupPC/Lib.pm in backuppc, triggered by BackupPC_tarPCCopy > - I'm pretty sure it's raising an exception, but the path is tortuous, > not least because I wasn't quite sure why the exit code was 0, but then I > just realised I was then piping the output to tar on another machine. > duh) > > My workaround stops the premature bailing out: > my $tmp_str = substr($$dataRef, $seekPosn, 131072); > #print STDERR "gothere3\n"; > $md5->add($tmp_str); Ooo, that's really interesting. I originally thought the issue was that you were passing in a literal (the return value of substr) and then attempting to change it, despite your conviction that it isn't being changed. But it looks likes the return value of substr *isn't* a literal, it's a magical anchor (which makes sense given the lvalue stuff). This means it's not a copy of your data, it *is* your data. That's fascinating. And awesome. I've always thought you had to do the lvalue stuff like this: substr($string, $offset, $length) = $replacement; But instead, if it's an anchor, then it means you can do this: use v5.10.0; my $string = "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"; my $offset = 16; my $length = 3; my $replacement = "kitten"; say $string; naughty( substr($string, $offset, $length) ); say $string; sub naughty { $_[0] = $replacement; } __END__ The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog The quick brown kitten jumps over the lazy dog But of course if you instead call: naughty( substr($string, 100, 1) ); then you get: substr outside of string at substr.pl line ... But if you can capture those anchors... that's awesome. So then you can do stuff like this: naughty2( $string, substr($string, 16, 3), substr($string, 40, 3)); say $string; sub naughty2 { # mess with $string if you want... substr($_[0], 3, 16, "elephant"); # mess with the anchors $_[1] = "eel"; $_[2] = "running horse"; } __END__ # and then wonder what comes out The quick brown eelphant jumps over the running horsey dog > Not really an lvalue, is it? I can sort of see why it does that - it > doesn't know that the value is being passed to a function that isn't then > going to modify its arguments, but ... counterintuitive. I wonder if > there's another way substr could have handled the returning of null data > that pleases legacy programs that don't follow perl best practices. So, while I can't actually answer your question, I can agree entirely that you're dealing with lvalue magic. :) This is indeed an issue only with 3 argument substr. Although, interestingly, it seems that the 4 argument substr still returns an anchor into the string, just not a magical string changing one. Otherwise: naughty2( $string, substr($string, 16, 3, "hippopotamus"), substr($string, 40, 3)); would throw an error (about modifying a literal), and it doesn't. J From jarich at perltraining.com.au Mon Feb 20 18:23:38 2012 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:23:38 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] When is an lvalue an lvalue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F43002A.2070701@perltraining.com.au> On 20/02/12 18:24, Tim Connors wrote: > $md5->add(substr($$dataRef, $seekPosn, 131072)); [...] > Not really an lvalue, is it? I can sort of see why it does that - it > doesn't know that the value is being passed to a function that isn't then > going to modify its arguments, but ... counterintuitive. I wonder if > there's another way substr could have handled the returning of null data > that pleases legacy programs that don't follow perl best practices. I don't know about substr, but another way you could fix your code is to handle the "is my seek position out of bounds" yourself: $md5->add( length($$dataRef) < $seekPosn ? undef : substr($$dataRef, $seekPosn, 131072) ); but your solution is easier to read (assuming you're suppressing those errors somewhere). J From alfiej at opera.com Tue Feb 21 14:03:54 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 09:03:54 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for March 2012 Message-ID: <1329861834.18217.140661039554629@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi guys, The March Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be held at Opera Software. Has anyone got any talk they would like to give? Jacinta has offered her "Don't hate Unicode" talk but unfortunately she will not be in Melbourne during the usual time and has asked if we could host it a week earlier (this would make it two weeks from today on the 7th of March). Unless we can muster talks for the usual date and have Jacinta present another month, does anyone have any objections for Melbourne Perl Mongers to by held on the first Wednesday in March? Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com From toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au Tue Feb 21 16:00:01 2012 From: toby.corkindale at strategicdata.com.au (Toby Corkindale) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:00:01 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting for March 2012 In-Reply-To: <1329861834.18217.140661039554629@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1329861834.18217.140661039554629@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4F443001.2020904@strategicdata.com.au> I will try and write the talk on STOMP, RabbitMQ and Perl for this upcoming meeting. I don't have any objections to either date. On 22/02/12 09:03, Alfie John wrote: > Hi guys, > > The March Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be held at Opera Software. > > Has anyone got any talk they would like to give? Jacinta has offered her "Don't hate Unicode" talk but unfortunately she will not be in Melbourne during the usual time and has asked if we could host it a week earlier (this would make it two weeks from today on the 7th of March). > > Unless we can muster talks for the usual date and have Jacinta present another month, does anyone have any objections for Melbourne Perl Mongers to by held on the first Wednesday in March? > > Alfie > -- .signature From guy at alchemy.com.au Tue Feb 28 11:54:34 2012 From: guy at alchemy.com.au (Guy Morton) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:54:34 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Desperately Seeking SAML Message-ID: <08FFCED2-EF98-436F-B647-3E8ED1D2CF29@alchemy.com.au> Anyone on the list have experience in setting up a SAML 2.0 server and integrating it with Apache/mod_perl? We're looking for someone who can help us set a new SAML based auth system. 2-3 week contract. Feel free to forward on to anyone you know who could help. Thanks Guy From alfiej at opera.com Tue Feb 28 13:11:07 2012 From: alfiej at opera.com (Alfie John) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 08:11:07 +1100 Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting - Wednesday the 7th March 2012 (1 week early) Message-ID: <1330463467.11570.140661042586053.017BCB1D@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello Perl Mongers, Since nobody objected to having it a week early... The next Melbourne Perl Mongers meeting will be on Wednesday the 7th of March, 2012 and will start around 6:30pm: Opera Software Level 1, 91-97 William Street Melbourne CBD Jacinta will be giving a talk titled "Don't hate Unicode". This talk will cover the essentials of Unicode and how it affects things like regular expressions. If anyone else would like to present, feel free to email the list. Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej at opera.com