From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Sun Nov  4 16:48:40 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:48:40 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Talks for next week?
Message-ID: <472E6868.4010009@perltraining.com.au>

I'm willing to give my talk on "Not common enough optimisations".  Anyone else
want to add their OSDC talk?

	J

-- 
   ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._          |  Jacinta Richardson         |
    `6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)  |  Perl Training Australia    |
    (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'   |      +61 3 9354 6001        |
  _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'           | contact at perltraining.com.au |
 (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'             |   www.perltraining.com.au   |

From alecclews at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 17:04:59 2007
From: alecclews at gmail.com (Alec Clews)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:04:59 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Speaker Request -- Nov Meeting
Message-ID: <C354B76B.5D5C%alecclews@gmail.com>

G'Day Mongers,

The next Perl meeting is 14/Nov.

Do we have any volunteers to present material. Remember this is an excellent
opportunity to rehearse your OSDC presentations.

Many thanks

Alec Clews <alecclews at gmail.com>





From crashkat at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 18:18:03 2007
From: crashkat at gmail.com (Kat Grant)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 13:18:03 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Speaker Request -- Nov Meeting
In-Reply-To: <C354B76B.5D5C%alecclews@gmail.com>
References: <C354B76B.5D5C%alecclews@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <460BC838-D87E-4991-8464-0C023151AB38@gmail.com>

Hi all
Are we still meeting in blackwood st next week? There were rumblings  
of a location change..

Cheers
K

On 05/11/2007, at 12:04 PM, Alec Clews wrote:

> G'Day Mongers,
>
> The next Perl meeting is 14/Nov.
>
> Do we have any volunteers to present material. Remember this is an  
> excellent
> opportunity to rehearse your OSDC presentations.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Alec Clews <alecclews at gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm


From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Thu Nov  8 14:33:17 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:33:17 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE!  Meeting next week 14th November
Message-ID: <47338EAD.2080706@perltraining.com.au>

G'day everyone,

Next week's meeting will be at a new venue!  Thanks go to Editure for hosting 
our meetings for so many years, without their assistance we would not have been 
successful as we are!  And thanks too to REA for hosting this coming meeting. 
Our meeting will be at:

	6:30pm, Wednesday 14th November 2007

	Realestate.com.au
	678 Victoria Street
	Richmond

You can find a map here:  http://preview.tinyurl.com/355zl5  You can catch an 
Epping or Hurstbridge train (non-express) to North Richmond and walk about 600m, 
or catch a 109 Mont Albert tram along Victoria Street.

Meeting talks:

Not common enough optimisations - Jacinta Richardson
----------------------------------------------------

We're all warned against premature code optimisation, and that's fair. 
Optimising too early can make the code more complex and hard to maintain without 
any evidence as to whether it actually makes it faster. A lot of the time it 
really is better just to write the code and worry about optimisation when/if 
speed becomes an issue.

On the other hand all programmers ought to understand the concepts behind Big-O 
notation and algorithmic complexity. Applying these concepts to your code can 
actually help make it both more simple and faster at the same time. It may mean 
not going with the first solution you think of, but once you've got the concepts 
worked out, making these simple changes to your coding style will allow you to 
reap huge benefits.


If you'd like to give a talk too, please speak up!  Bring along anyone who you 
think would enjoy the meeting.

All the best,

	Jacinta

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Sun Nov 11 16:56:50 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:56:50 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Paul's "Effective Procrastination with HiveMinder"
	talk.
Message-ID: <4737A4D2.20304@perltraining.com.au>

If you missed Paul's talk last week and would like to see it.  He'll be giving
it at the SAGE-AU Victorian Chapter meeting tomorrow night, and you're very
welcome to come and see.

DATE: Tuesday 13th November 2007

TIME: 7:00 PM

VENUE: Ground Floor Tutorial Room, Baillieu
Library The University of Melbourne - Parkville

AGENDA: Effective Procrastination with HiveMinder - Paul Fenwick

If you're like most people, you've got dozens of things that need doing.

Work, shopping, chores, programming, hobbies, tax, holidays, bills, and so on.
You may have tried to keep a to-do list, but found it rapidly grew to the point
of being unmanageable.

Paul Fenwick will demonstrate the use of the free HiveMinder.com to-do service
to both manage tasks and to procrastinate effectively, allowing you to focus
only on the tasks that really need to be done.  We'll see how to manage tasks
via the web, via-email, and how to be really efficient via instant messenger.

To conclude, we'll see how it's possible to add new features to HiveMinder and
some tricks and tips for doing so.


If you're a System Administrator and you're not yet a member of SAGE-AU then
you're especially welcome!

All the best,

	Jacinta

-- 
   ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._          |  Jacinta Richardson         |
    `6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)  |  Perl Training Australia    |
    (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'   |      +61 3 9354 6001        |
  _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'           | contact at perltraining.com.au |
 (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'             |   www.perltraining.com.au   |

From Stephen.Edmonds at its.monash.edu.au  Tue Nov 13 14:45:14 2007
From: Stephen.Edmonds at its.monash.edu.au (Stephen Edmonds)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:45:14 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE!  Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <47338EAD.2080706@perltraining.com.au>
References: <47338EAD.2080706@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <473A28FA.5060601@its.monash.edu.au>

I'm confused about where the new venue is.

The Google link Jacinta provided indicates that it is halfway between 
North Richmond station and the Yarra.  But the Melways says that 678 is 
at the Yarra, next to Victoria Gardens (the Ikea).

This could be surprising for anyone who chose to walk from the station 
as it would be 2km instead of 600m.

Thanks,

Stephen

Jacinta Richardson wrote:
> G'day everyone,
> 
> Next week's meeting will be at a new venue!  Thanks go to Editure for hosting 
> our meetings for so many years, without their assistance we would not have been 
> successful as we are!  And thanks too to REA for hosting this coming meeting. 
> Our meeting will be at:
> 
> 	6:30pm, Wednesday 14th November 2007
> 
> 	Realestate.com.au
> 	678 Victoria Street
> 	Richmond
> 
> You can find a map here:  http://preview.tinyurl.com/355zl5  You can catch an 
> Epping or Hurstbridge train (non-express) to North Richmond and walk about 600m, 
> or catch a 109 Mont Albert tram along Victoria Street.
> 
> Meeting talks:
> 
> Not common enough optimisations - Jacinta Richardson
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> We're all warned against premature code optimisation, and that's fair. 
> Optimising too early can make the code more complex and hard to maintain without 
> any evidence as to whether it actually makes it faster. A lot of the time it 
> really is better just to write the code and worry about optimisation when/if 
> speed becomes an issue.
> 
> On the other hand all programmers ought to understand the concepts behind Big-O 
> notation and algorithmic complexity. Applying these concepts to your code can 
> actually help make it both more simple and faster at the same time. It may mean 
> not going with the first solution you think of, but once you've got the concepts 
> worked out, making these simple changes to your coding style will allow you to 
> reap huge benefits.
> 
> 
> If you'd like to give a talk too, please speak up!  Bring along anyone who you 
> think would enjoy the meeting.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> 	Jacinta
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm

-- 
Stephen Edmonds
Senior Portal Developer / Integrator
Flexible Learning and Teaching Program
Information Technology Services, Monash University

From crshort at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 14:56:13 2007
From: crshort at gmail.com (Christopher Short)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:56:13 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <473A28FA.5060601@its.monash.edu.au>
References: <47338EAD.2080706@perltraining.com.au>
	<473A28FA.5060601@its.monash.edu.au>
Message-ID: <cd136f1e0711131456y442e15f0x6f60db239dd7eb9c@mail.gmail.com>

Oh lucky you checked! I assumed it had moved? I can't recall a pub
across the road from Ikea though, and the Terminus Hotel is closer to
the Google Map location.
Mysteries abound! :-)
Christopher

On 14/11/2007, Stephen Edmonds <Stephen.Edmonds at its.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> I'm confused about where the new venue is.
>
> The Google link Jacinta provided indicates that it is halfway between
> North Richmond station and the Yarra.  But the Melways says that 678 is
> at the Yarra, next to Victoria Gardens (the Ikea).
>
> This could be surprising for anyone who chose to walk from the station
> as it would be 2km instead of 600m.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stephen
>
> Jacinta Richardson wrote:
> > G'day everyone,
> >
> > Next week's meeting will be at a new venue!  Thanks go to Editure for hosting
> > our meetings for so many years, without their assistance we would not have been
> > successful as we are!  And thanks too to REA for hosting this coming meeting.
> > Our meeting will be at:
> >
> >       6:30pm, Wednesday 14th November 2007
> >
> >       Realestate.com.au
> >       678 Victoria Street
> >       Richmond
> >
> > You can find a map here:  http://preview.tinyurl.com/355zl5  You can catch an
> > Epping or Hurstbridge train (non-express) to North Richmond and walk about 600m,
> > or catch a 109 Mont Albert tram along Victoria Street.
> >
> > Meeting talks:
> >
> > Not common enough optimisations - Jacinta Richardson
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > We're all warned against premature code optimisation, and that's fair.
> > Optimising too early can make the code more complex and hard to maintain without
> > any evidence as to whether it actually makes it faster. A lot of the time it
> > really is better just to write the code and worry about optimisation when/if
> > speed becomes an issue.
> >
> > On the other hand all programmers ought to understand the concepts behind Big-O
> > notation and algorithmic complexity. Applying these concepts to your code can
> > actually help make it both more simple and faster at the same time. It may mean
> > not going with the first solution you think of, but once you've got the concepts
> > worked out, making these simple changes to your coding style will allow you to
> > reap huge benefits.
> >
> >
> > If you'd like to give a talk too, please speak up!  Bring along anyone who you
> > think would enjoy the meeting.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >       Jacinta
> > _______________________________________________
> > Melbourne-pm mailing list
> > Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>
> --
> Stephen Edmonds
> Senior Portal Developer / Integrator
> Flexible Learning and Teaching Program
> Information Technology Services, Monash University
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>

From melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com  Tue Nov 13 14:56:29 2007
From: melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:56:29 -0800
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE!  Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <473A28FA.5060601@its.monash.edu.au>
References: <47338EAD.2080706@perltraining.com.au>
	<473A28FA.5060601@its.monash.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20071113225629.GB17720@joshheumann.com>

<quote who='Stephen Edmonds' when='Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 09:45:14AM +1100'>
> I'm confused about where the new venue is.
> 
> The Google link Jacinta provided indicates that it is halfway between 
> North Richmond station and the Yarra.  But the Melways says that 678 is 
> at the Yarra, next to Victoria Gardens (the Ikea).

The answer is B).  Right next to the Yarra, it's... well, here's a map:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=102829043147995208029.00043ed73f515a85113f4&ll=-37.811437,145.010948&spn=0.006662,0.010042&t=h&z=17&om=1

J

From crshort at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 14:59:18 2007
From: crshort at gmail.com (Christopher Short)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:59:18 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <20071113225629.GB17720@joshheumann.com>
References: <47338EAD.2080706@perltraining.com.au>
	<473A28FA.5060601@its.monash.edu.au>
	<20071113225629.GB17720@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <cd136f1e0711131459r154a2985j162d3041995f85e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Josh, conveniently placed on a tram line too! Neat.

On 14/11/2007, Josh Heumann <melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com> wrote:
> <quote who='Stephen Edmonds' when='Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 09:45:14AM +1100'>
> > I'm confused about where the new venue is.
> >
> > The Google link Jacinta provided indicates that it is halfway between
> > North Richmond station and the Yarra.  But the Melways says that 678 is
> > at the Yarra, next to Victoria Gardens (the Ikea).
>
> The answer is B).  Right next to the Yarra, it's... well, here's a map:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=102829043147995208029.00043ed73f515a85113f4&ll=-37.811437,145.010948&spn=0.006662,0.010042&t=h&z=17&om=1
>
> J
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>

From melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com  Tue Nov 13 15:12:49 2007
From: melbourne.pm at joshheumann.com (Josh Heumann)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:12:49 -0800
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <cd136f1e0711131459r154a2985j162d3041995f85e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47338EAD.2080706@perltraining.com.au>
	<473A28FA.5060601@its.monash.edu.au>
	<20071113225629.GB17720@joshheumann.com>
	<cd136f1e0711131459r154a2985j162d3041995f85e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071113231249.GC17720@joshheumann.com>

<quote who='Christopher Short' when='Wed, Nov 14, 2007 at 09:59:18AM +1100'>
> Thanks Josh, conveniently placed on a tram line too! Neat.

No problem.  One of my coworkers pointed out that the address is wrong
on melbourne.pm.org.  Who has access to change that?

J

From scottp at linux.dd.com.au  Tue Nov 13 17:48:26 2007
From: scottp at linux.dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:48:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <20071113231249.GC17720@joshheumann.com>
Message-ID: <15947566.26231195004906727.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>

Hey Guys

Sorry I am going to miss the meeting again today. Amanda works on Wednesday and I look after Teha, unfortunately even if I left as soon as she gets home I would not be in the city until 8pm.

Anyway I hope the new venue is great and the talks are exciting :-)

Some news:

* OSDC 2007 has been organised very well and will be on at the end of the month (anyone going up?)
* OSDC 2008 venue is being requested now, hope to have an answer there soon (we have at least 2 interested parties).
* OSDC Inc has agreed in principle about being the association for Melbourne PM - keep and distribute money etc, just working out the details :-)

Have a great night guys, and hopefully in the future I will be able to get in on Wednesday evenings.

We have some ideas on December get together - including the PHP guys - any ideas, send them to the list (my preference is a beach somewhere, or at least a park).

Scooter

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Tue Nov 13 19:29:41 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:29:41 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <15947566.26231195004906727.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>
References: <15947566.26231195004906727.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>
Message-ID: <473A6BA5.9060403@perltraining.com.au>

Scott Penrose wrote:
> Hey Guys
> 
> Sorry I am going to miss the meeting again today. Amanda works on Wednesday
> and I look after Teha, unfortunately even if I left as soon as she gets home
> I would not be in the city until 8pm.

MPM was originally planned on Wednesday nights due to your and Paul's original 
schedule (somewhat related to channel 7's then scheduling of Buffy).  If all 
Wednesdays into the foreseeable future are going to be bad for you, we could 
change our meeting night....  we just need to check our other constraints. 
MelbPHP is on the first Thursday of the month, and SAGE-AU Vic is on the second 
Tuesday.  What else do people go to?

Perhaps the first or third Tuesday, or second or third Thursday would be good 
options?

All the best,

	J

From ben at benbalbo.com  Tue Nov 13 19:33:49 2007
From: ben at benbalbo.com (Ben Balbo)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:33:49 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <473A6BA5.9060403@perltraining.com.au>
References: <15947566.26231195004906727.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>
	<473A6BA5.9060403@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <473A6C9D.40809@benbalbo.com>

> MelbPHP is on the first Thursday of the month

Second Thursday ;-)

> Perhaps the first or third Tuesday, or second or third Thursday would be good 
> options?

Therefore first or third Thursday. Although the Web Standards Group meet
on the first Thursday if I'm not mistaken.

Cheers
BB

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 252 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/melbourne-pm/attachments/20071114/6bbac046/attachment.bin 

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Tue Nov 13 19:56:29 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:56:29 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
In-Reply-To: <473A6C9D.40809@benbalbo.com>
References: <15947566.26231195004906727.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>
	<473A6BA5.9060403@perltraining.com.au>
	<473A6C9D.40809@benbalbo.com>
Message-ID: <473A71ED.3030803@perltraining.com.au>

Ben Balbo wrote:
>> MelbPHP is on the first Thursday of the month
> 
> Second Thursday ;-)

Thanks for the correction.  I wrote second first, and then I thought you'd 
changed in the other direction.  Next time I'll just check.  ;)

>> Perhaps the first or third Tuesday, or second or third Thursday would be good 
>> options?
> 
> Therefore first or third Thursday. Although the Web Standards Group meet
> on the first Thursday if I'm not mistaken.

Cool, so first or third Tuesday or third Thursday.  :)

	J

From lsharpe at pacificwireless.com.au  Tue Nov 13 20:04:33 2007
From: lsharpe at pacificwireless.com.au (Leigh Sharpe)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:04:33 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November
Message-ID: <96CF49BD8B56384395D698BA99007FA32D51@exchange.pacwire.local>

 
Wouldn't want to clash with LUV, would we? They're the first Tuesday of
each month.

-----Original Message-----
From: melbourne-pm-bounces+lsharpe=pacificwireless.com.au at pm.org
[mailto:melbourne-pm-bounces+lsharpe=pacificwireless.com.au at pm.org] On
Behalf Of Jacinta Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2007 2:56 PM
To: Ben Balbo
Cc: Melbourne Perlmongers
Subject: Re: [Melbourne-pm] NEW VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November

Ben Balbo wrote:
>> MelbPHP is on the first Thursday of the month
> 
> Second Thursday ;-)

Thanks for the correction.  I wrote second first, and then I thought
you'd 
changed in the other direction.  Next time I'll just check.  ;)

>> Perhaps the first or third Tuesday, or second or third Thursday would
be good 
>> options?
> 
> Therefore first or third Thursday. Although the Web Standards Group
meet
> on the first Thursday if I'm not mistaken.

Cool, so first or third Tuesday or third Thursday.  :)

	J
_______________________________________________
Melbourne-pm mailing list
Melbourne-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm

From ts at meme.com.au  Tue Nov 13 20:57:40 2007
From: ts at meme.com.au (Tony Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:57:40 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Don't get off a winning horse [was: Re: NEW VENUE!
	Meeting next week 14th November]
In-Reply-To: <473A6BA5.9060403@perltraining.com.au>
References: <15947566.26231195004906727.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>
	<473A6BA5.9060403@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <68982615-CE0E-4FA1-9284-80B95BAA9E66@meme.com.au>

I'm the last one to try to understate the roles of Scott, Jacinta and  
Paul in reviving and sustaining Melbourne PM. The record (non Damian)  
numbers on recent second Wednesdays underline the success of those  
efforts.

So we are now in a position strong enough to (I hope and expect)  
survive a change of venue. But that only underlines that this is not  
the right time to even contemplate a change of date from that on  
which increasing numbers have shown themselves willing to join us.

There was once a fledgling MySQL Meetup that clashed on second  
Wednesdays. I got to their April(?) 2006 meeting because we time  
shifted Melbourne PM for that month only and may have encouraged them  
to try a change to third Wednesday which effectively killed the group  
for more than a year until Tristan quite recently took it on himself  
to revive it, so far successfully.

There will always be clashes no matter which date we chose. I have a  
long standing second Tuesday commitment which prevents me going to  
something else, but that's just how it is. A date change might be  
worth a thought for a struggling group, but definitely not for a  
thriving one in the middle of a venue change.

On 14/11/2007, at 2:29 PM, Jacinta Richardson wrote:

> Scott Penrose wrote:
>> Hey Guys
>>
>> Sorry I am going to miss the meeting again today. Amanda works on  
>> Wednesday
>> and I look after Teha, unfortunately even if I left as soon as she  
>> gets home
>> I would not be in the city until 8pm.
>
> MPM was originally planned on Wednesday nights due to your and  
> Paul's original
> schedule (somewhat related to channel 7's then scheduling of  
> Buffy).  If all
> Wednesdays into the foreseeable future are going to be bad for you,  
> we could
> change our meeting night....  we just need to check our other  
> constraints.
> MelbPHP is on the first Thursday of the month, and SAGE-AU Vic is  
> on the second
> Tuesday.  What else do people go to?
>
> Perhaps the first or third Tuesday, or second or third Thursday  
> would be good
> options?
>
> All the best,
>
> 	J


From scottp at linux.dd.com.au  Wed Nov 14 14:26:20 2007
From: scottp at linux.dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:26:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Don't get off a winning horse [was: Re: NEW
 VENUE! Meeting next week 14th November]
In-Reply-To: <68982615-CE0E-4FA1-9284-80B95BAA9E66@meme.com.au>
Message-ID: <7355475.30961195079180842.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>

It scares me too. I don't know the answer.

Tricky thing - balancing the people who organise, the people who attend, the location/venue - all against the day. No one of those is more important than the others - they are all important. Sometimes you are forced, e.g. a venue may only be available on certain dates.

Scott

----- Tony Smith <ts at meme.com.au> wrote:
> I'm the last one to try to understate the roles of Scott, Jacinta and 
> 
> Paul in reviving and sustaining Melbourne PM. The record (non Damian) 
> 
> numbers on recent second Wednesdays underline the success of those  
> efforts.
> 
> So we are now in a position strong enough to (I hope and expect)  
> survive a change of venue. But that only underlines that this is not 
> 
> the right time to even contemplate a change of date from that on  
> which increasing numbers have shown themselves willing to join us.
> 
> There was once a fledgling MySQL Meetup that clashed on second  
> Wednesdays. I got to their April(?) 2006 meeting because we time  
> shifted Melbourne PM for that month only and may have encouraged them 
> 
> to try a change to third Wednesday which effectively killed the group 
> 
> for more than a year until Tristan quite recently took it on himself 
> 
> to revive it, so far successfully.
> 
> There will always be clashes no matter which date we chose. I have a 
> 
> long standing second Tuesday commitment which prevents me going to  
> something else, but that's just how it is. A date change might be  
> worth a thought for a struggling group, but definitely not for a  
> thriving one in the middle of a venue change.
> 
> On 14/11/2007, at 2:29 PM, Jacinta Richardson wrote:
> 
> > Scott Penrose wrote:
> >> Hey Guys
> >>
> >> Sorry I am going to miss the meeting again today. Amanda works on 
> 
> >> Wednesday
> >> and I look after Teha, unfortunately even if I left as soon as she 
> 
> >> gets home
> >> I would not be in the city until 8pm.
> >
> > MPM was originally planned on Wednesday nights due to your and  
> > Paul's original
> > schedule (somewhat related to channel 7's then scheduling of  
> > Buffy).  If all
> > Wednesdays into the foreseeable future are going to be bad for you, 
> 
> > we could
> > change our meeting night....  we just need to check our other  
> > constraints.
> > MelbPHP is on the first Thursday of the month, and SAGE-AU Vic is  
> > on the second
> > Tuesday.  What else do people go to?
> >
> > Perhaps the first or third Tuesday, or second or third Thursday  
> > would be good
> > options?
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > 	J
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm


From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Wed Nov 14 15:40:40 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:40:40 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Last night's meeting wrap-up and further discussion
	points.
Message-ID: <473B8778.8050902@perltraining.com.au>

Last night's meeting went very well with 15-20 attendees; 5 or so from REA.  The
new venue looks pretty good; tables, comfy chairs, good data projector and noone
complained about their journey there.  REA kept back staff members to make
entrance easy with people opening doors, swipe-carding lifts and providing
directions.

My talk (20 minutes long to fit into a 30 minute OSDC slot) felt much shorter so
we also introduced ourselves and talked briefly about what to do next meetings.
 Games were mentioned, as well as Paul volunteering to give a talk on Net::Pcap
(for disassembling TCP/IP packet streams).  I encourage people to continue that
discussion here.

A couple of people mentioned that they're prefer a little more time to get to
the venue and suggested starting the meetings at 7.  Doing so might lose us our
REA members though who'll be staying back from work to attend.  This should be
discussed further as well.  We could potentially split the difference and
(depending on speakers) run some lightning talks from 6:40 through to 7 with our
main talk starting after that.  Keeping the meeting on the second Wednesday did
seem to have the general consensus, but I didn't talk to all attendees about that.

All the best,

	J

-- 
   ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._          |  Jacinta Richardson         |
    `6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)  |  Perl Training Australia    |
    (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'   |      +61 3 9354 6001        |
  _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'           | contact at perltraining.com.au |
 (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'             |   www.perltraining.com.au   |

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Wed Nov 14 15:52:05 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:52:05 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Perl Survey results released
Message-ID: <473B8A25.2020603@perltraining.com.au>

Shamelessly borrowed from Sydney PM:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Sydney-pm] Perl Survey results released
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:17:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Savige <ajsavige at yahoo.com.au>
To: sydney-pm at pm.org

The results of the Perl Survey are out:

 http://perlbuzz.com/2007/11/perl-survey-results-released.html

Note to Dr Straight: Notice the web site in the url! I was shocked to learn on
Tuesday that Stuey had never heard of the perlbuzz web site, given that it's
edited by a close friend/workmate/soulmate of his. ;-)

An analysis of Perl Monger involvement by Jason Porritt caught my eye:

 http://www.jasonporritt.com/perl-survey-results-us-perl-mongers/

Cheers,
/-\


      Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
http://au.yahoo.com/worldsbestmail/viagra/index.html


_______________________________________________
Sydney-pm mailing list
Sydney-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sydney-pm


-- 
   ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._          |  Jacinta Richardson         |
    `6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)  |  Perl Training Australia    |
    (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'   |      +61 3 9354 6001        |
  _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'           | contact at perltraining.com.au |
 (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'             |   www.perltraining.com.au   |

From leif.eriksen at hpa.com.au  Wed Nov 14 16:23:09 2007
From: leif.eriksen at hpa.com.au (leif.eriksen at hpa.com.au)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:23:09 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Last night's meeting wrap-up and further
	discussionpoints.
Message-ID: <6462CBB658614845A7702E379880769802E1A64E@exhnat2.nsw.hpa>

> We could potentially split the 
> difference and (depending on speakers) run some lightning 
> talks from 6:40 through to 7 with our main talk starting 
> after that.  Keeping the meeting on the second Wednesday did 
> seem to have the general consensus, but I didn't talk to all 
> attendees about that.
> 

I went to the Melbourne Ruby group meeting a few weeks ago and thats
exactly what they did - two small talks then a break for pizza (supplied
by the venue no less!!! - no comfy chairs unfortunately ) then regroup
for more talks. 

L
**********************************************************************
IMPORTANT
The contents of this e-mail and its attachments are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If
you received this e-mail in error, please notify the HPA Postmaster, postmaster at hpa.com.au,
then delete  the e-mail.
This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept for the
presence of computer viruses by Ironport. Before opening or using any
attachments, check them for viruses and defects.
Our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments.
HPA collects personal information to provide and market our services. For more
information about use, disclosure and access see our Privacy Policy at
www.hpa.com.au
**********************************************************************

From crashkat at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 16:59:36 2007
From: crashkat at gmail.com (Kat Grant)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:59:36 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
Message-ID: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>

Hi All

We have a web front ended application, and (not unusually) some jobs  
that run server side in the background.
My problem is that the same bit of code called from within the web  
server handles utf8 characters in just fine, but when called from a  
standalone script, turns them into rubbish.

The code is literally identical, and it's doing my head in.

I've tried running with all the various possible values of -C but  
nothing has helped.

The code is pulling some UTF-8 data from a mysql database,  
constructing a MIME::Lite message and sending it. The messages come  
through fine when sent from within the webserver, but the characters  
are trashed when sent from a stand alone script.

We use perl 5.8.8, MySQL 5, Apache 1.3, mod_perl on debian.

Can anyone suggest anything?

Cheers
K


From simon at unisolve.com.au  Wed Nov 14 17:08:04 2007
From: simon at unisolve.com.au (Simon Taylor)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:08:04 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
In-Reply-To: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
References: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711151208.04588.simon@unisolve.com.au>

Hi Kat,

> The code is pulling some UTF-8 data from a mysql database,
> constructing a MIME::Lite message and sending it. The messages come
> through fine when sent from within the webserver, but the characters
> are trashed when sent from a stand alone script.
>
> We use perl 5.8.8, MySQL 5, Apache 1.3, mod_perl on debian.
>
> Can anyone suggest anything?

Environment variables?

Have you had the chance to compare the output of 'env' on the command line 
with the %ENV values that your apache process is using?

- Simon




From toby.corkindale at rea-group.com  Wed Nov 14 17:06:45 2007
From: toby.corkindale at rea-group.com (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:06:45 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
In-Reply-To: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
References: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <473B9BA5.5040801@rea-group.com>

Kat Grant wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> We have a web front ended application, and (not unusually) some jobs  
> that run server side in the background.
> My problem is that the same bit of code called from within the web  
> server handles utf8 characters in just fine, but when called from a  
> standalone script, turns them into rubbish.
> 
> The code is literally identical, and it's doing my head in.
> 
> I've tried running with all the various possible values of -C but  
> nothing has helped.
> 
> The code is pulling some UTF-8 data from a mysql database,  
> constructing a MIME::Lite message and sending it. The messages come  
> through fine when sent from within the webserver, but the characters  
> are trashed when sent from a stand alone script.
> 
> We use perl 5.8.8, MySQL 5, Apache 1.3, mod_perl on debian.
> 
> Can anyone suggest anything?

Check $ENV{LOCALE} and related environment flags under web server's env
and your shell env?

Also - assert that the strings /are/ utf8 encoded, just in case they're
not and it just happens that the webserver is managing to
detect-and-correct the bytestreams somehow?

Toby

> 
> Cheers
> K
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm


-- 
Toby Corkindale
Software developer

From crashkat at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 17:16:17 2007
From: crashkat at gmail.com (Kat Grant)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:16:17 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
In-Reply-To: <473B9BA5.5040801@rea-group.com>
References: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
	<473B9BA5.5040801@rea-group.com>
Message-ID: <B7456C75-C3FB-467D-A5C2-6DB7C6D42D70@gmail.com>

Thanks Simon, Toby

I read that calling with -C was equivalent to setting $ENV 
{PERL_UNICODE}, and this didn't help.
Haven't looked at LOCALE.

I'll mess with this and dump out the environment hashes from both and  
see how we go.

Lunch first tho :)

Cheers
K


On 15/11/2007, at 12:06 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote:

> Kat Grant wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> We have a web front ended application, and (not unusually) some jobs
>> that run server side in the background.
>> My problem is that the same bit of code called from within the web
>> server handles utf8 characters in just fine, but when called from a
>> standalone script, turns them into rubbish.
>>
>> The code is literally identical, and it's doing my head in.
>>
>> I've tried running with all the various possible values of -C but
>> nothing has helped.
>>
>> The code is pulling some UTF-8 data from a mysql database,
>> constructing a MIME::Lite message and sending it. The messages come
>> through fine when sent from within the webserver, but the characters
>> are trashed when sent from a stand alone script.
>>
>> We use perl 5.8.8, MySQL 5, Apache 1.3, mod_perl on debian.
>>
>> Can anyone suggest anything?
>
> Check $ENV{LOCALE} and related environment flags under web server's  
> env
> and your shell env?
>
> Also - assert that the strings /are/ utf8 encoded, just in case  
> they're
> not and it just happens that the webserver is managing to
> detect-and-correct the bytestreams somehow?
>
> Toby
>
>>
>> Cheers
>> K
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Melbourne-pm mailing list
>> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm
>
>
> -- 
> Toby Corkindale
> Software developer
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm


From scottp at linux.dd.com.au  Wed Nov 14 18:09:23 2007
From: scottp at linux.dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 02:09:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Last night's meeting wrap-up and further
 discussionpoints.
In-Reply-To: <6462CBB658614845A7702E379880769802E1A64E@exhnat2.nsw.hpa>
Message-ID: <32285207.33521195092563519.JavaMail.root@zimbra.dd.com.au>

I think providing food at meetings is fantastic - it keeps everyone together, in all the meetings I have been to, like Ruby below and PHP - it has been a more positive experience.

The trick of course, is getting the sponsorship for the food.

Scott

----- leif eriksen <leif.eriksen at hpa.com.au> wrote:
> > We could potentially split the 
> > difference and (depending on speakers) run some lightning 
> > talks from 6:40 through to 7 with our main talk starting 
> > after that.  Keeping the meeting on the second Wednesday did 
> > seem to have the general consensus, but I didn't talk to all 
> > attendees about that.
> > 
> 
> I went to the Melbourne Ruby group meeting a few weeks ago and thats
> exactly what they did - two small talks then a break for pizza
> (supplied
> by the venue no less!!! - no comfy chairs unfortunately ) then
> regroup
> for more talks. 
> 
> L
> **********************************************************************
> IMPORTANT
> The contents of this e-mail and its attachments are confidential and
> intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.  If
> you received this e-mail in error, please notify the HPA Postmaster,
> postmaster at hpa.com.au,
> then delete  the e-mail.
> This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept
> for the
> presence of computer viruses by Ironport. Before opening or using any
> attachments, check them for viruses and defects.
> Our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments.
> HPA collects personal information to provide and market our services.
> For more
> information about use, disclosure and access see our Privacy Policy
> at
> www.hpa.com.au
> **********************************************************************
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm


From toby.corkindale at rea-group.com  Wed Nov 14 23:08:45 2007
From: toby.corkindale at rea-group.com (Toby Corkindale)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:08:45 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
In-Reply-To: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
References: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <473BF07D.7000803@rea-group.com>

Kat Grant wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> We have a web front ended application, and (not unusually) some jobs  
> that run server side in the background.
> My problem is that the same bit of code called from within the web  
> server handles utf8 characters in just fine, but when called from a  
> standalone script, turns them into rubbish.

> 
> The code is literally identical, and it's doing my head in.
> 
> I've tried running with all the various possible values of -C but  
> nothing has helped.
> 
> The code is pulling some UTF-8 data from a mysql database,  
> constructing a MIME::Lite message and sending it. The messages come  
> through fine when sent from within the webserver, but the characters  
> are trashed when sent from a stand alone script.
> 
> We use perl 5.8.8, MySQL 5, Apache 1.3, mod_perl on debian.

I remember a Perl talk a couple of years ago or so about using Unicode
and Perl and databases, and the conclusion could roughly be summed up
as: DBD::Pg (PostgreSQL) Just Works(tm) and MySQL required a bunch of
hoops to be jumped through.

I notice from Google that:
http://www.simplicidade.org/notes/archives/2005/12/utf8_and_dbdmys.html

So I wonder if that's what you're seeing.. You're getting raw characters
that add up to Unicode, but are not /marked/ as Unicode internally.
When printed via the web, your browser might be smart enough to pick up
that it's unicode and display it as such.. but on a terminal, the Perl
i/o layer or the terminal may be (mistakenly) escaping the bytes, or
trying to display them as iso-8859 instead, hence the garbage.

ie. the webserver may be the one at fault here, and your terminal is
correctly displaying garbage.

Can you try this out?

use utf8;
print (or log) "Data " . (utf8::is_utf8($string) ? 'is' : 'is not')
    . " valid UTF8.\n";


If it comes back as NOT being utf8, try this:

use Encode qw/decode/;
my $upgraded = decode("utf8", $string);
print $upgraded;


-toby

From crashkat at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 03:52:44 2007
From: crashkat at gmail.com (Kat Grant)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:52:44 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
In-Reply-To: <473BF07D.7000803@rea-group.com>
References: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
	<473BF07D.7000803@rea-group.com>
Message-ID: <3FA1F41C-07E5-4523-A3A6-CDF832F69ACC@gmail.com>

Hey Toby
I'll give it a shot in the morning.
Tnx :)

K

On 15/11/2007, at 6:08 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote:

> Kat Grant wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> We have a web front ended application, and (not unusually) some jobs
>> that run server side in the background.
>> My problem is that the same bit of code called from within the web
>> server handles utf8 characters in just fine, but when called from a
>> standalone script, turns them into rubbish.
>
>>
>> The code is literally identical, and it's doing my head in.
>>
>> I've tried running with all the various possible values of -C but
>> nothing has helped.
>>
>> The code is pulling some UTF-8 data from a mysql database,
>> constructing a MIME::Lite message and sending it. The messages come
>> through fine when sent from within the webserver, but the characters
>> are trashed when sent from a stand alone script.
>>
>> We use perl 5.8.8, MySQL 5, Apache 1.3, mod_perl on debian.
>
> I remember a Perl talk a couple of years ago or so about using Unicode
> and Perl and databases, and the conclusion could roughly be summed up
> as: DBD::Pg (PostgreSQL) Just Works(tm) and MySQL required a bunch of
> hoops to be jumped through.
>
> I notice from Google that:
> http://www.simplicidade.org/notes/archives/2005/12/ 
> utf8_and_dbdmys.html
>
> So I wonder if that's what you're seeing.. You're getting raw  
> characters
> that add up to Unicode, but are not /marked/ as Unicode internally.
> When printed via the web, your browser might be smart enough to  
> pick up
> that it's unicode and display it as such.. but on a terminal, the Perl
> i/o layer or the terminal may be (mistakenly) escaping the bytes, or
> trying to display them as iso-8859 instead, hence the garbage.
>
> ie. the webserver may be the one at fault here, and your terminal is
> correctly displaying garbage.
>
> Can you try this out?
>
> use utf8;
> print (or log) "Data " . (utf8::is_utf8($string) ? 'is' : 'is not')
>     . " valid UTF8.\n";
>
>
> If it comes back as NOT being utf8, try this:
>
> use Encode qw/decode/;
> my $upgraded = decode("utf8", $string);
> print $upgraded;
>
>
> -toby


From guy at alchemy.com.au  Thu Nov 15 13:49:25 2007
From: guy at alchemy.com.au (Guy Morton)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:49:25 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
In-Reply-To: <473BF07D.7000803@rea-group.com>
References: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
	<473BF07D.7000803@rea-group.com>
Message-ID: <12ACA141-69FE-4F6A-85EA-E477E22462D3@alchemy.com.au>

I'm having a very similar (I suspect) problem at the moment.

I have a document that I can display correctly in a web browser, but  
when I process exactly the same document through a shell script (to  
convert it to PDF) the characters come out wrong. I suspect the web  
browser is able to switch encodings mid stream and thus displays the  
document correctly, whereas the shell script assumes it is all one  
encoding and thus it comes out wrong.

I'm combining unicode fragments from mysql 5 but am performing some  
substitutions on some of the fragments - I suspect this is part of  
the problem. i have the added problem that some of those fragments  
were probably initially entered using a different encoding scheme, so  
there may be some stuff written using big5 that again the browser  
might be quietly handling.

I could be wrong about all of the above, but that's what it looks like.

I think is_utf8() might be a good diagnostic tool for this - eg i  
might just test every fragment before I allow it into the final  
output and if it fails leave it out.

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear your experiences, Kat.

Guy


On 15/11/2007, at 6:08 PM, Toby Corkindale wrote:

> Kat Grant wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> We have a web front ended application, and (not unusually) some jobs
>> that run server side in the background.
>> My problem is that the same bit of code called from within the web
>> server handles utf8 characters in just fine, but when called from a
>> standalone script, turns them into rubbish.
>
>>
>> The code is literally identical, and it's doing my head in.
>>
>> I've tried running with all the various possible values of -C but
>> nothing has helped.
>>
>> The code is pulling some UTF-8 data from a mysql database,
>> constructing a MIME::Lite message and sending it. The messages come
>> through fine when sent from within the webserver, but the characters
>> are trashed when sent from a stand alone script.
>>
>> We use perl 5.8.8, MySQL 5, Apache 1.3, mod_perl on debian.
>
> I remember a Perl talk a couple of years ago or so about using Unicode
> and Perl and databases, and the conclusion could roughly be summed up
> as: DBD::Pg (PostgreSQL) Just Works(tm) and MySQL required a bunch of
> hoops to be jumped through.
>
> I notice from Google that:
> http://www.simplicidade.org/notes/archives/2005/12/ 
> utf8_and_dbdmys.html
>
> So I wonder if that's what you're seeing.. You're getting raw  
> characters
> that add up to Unicode, but are not /marked/ as Unicode internally.
> When printed via the web, your browser might be smart enough to  
> pick up
> that it's unicode and display it as such.. but on a terminal, the Perl
> i/o layer or the terminal may be (mistakenly) escaping the bytes, or
> trying to display them as iso-8859 instead, hence the garbage.
>
> ie. the webserver may be the one at fault here, and your terminal is
> correctly displaying garbage.
>
> Can you try this out?
>
> use utf8;
> print (or log) "Data " . (utf8::is_utf8($string) ? 'is' : 'is not')
>     . " valid UTF8.\n";
>
>
> If it comes back as NOT being utf8, try this:
>
> use Encode qw/decode/;
> my $upgraded = decode("utf8", $string);
> print $upgraded;
>
>
> -toby
> _______________________________________________
> Melbourne-pm mailing list
> Melbourne-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Fri Nov 16 01:03:16 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (jarich at perltraining.com.au)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:03:16 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] OSDC 2007's Fabulous Keynotes!
Message-ID: <20071116090316.53C9EA8D17@teddybear.perltraining.com.au>

Dear Melbourne PM members,

Final reminder!  Register now for the Open Source Developers' Conference 2007:
http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html   

Key information:

        26th November           - Tutorials
        27th - 29th November    - Technical programme
        28th November           - Google Conference Dinner

        Royal on the Park Hotel
        Cnr Alice & Albert Streets
        Brisbane CBD
        Queensland

Each full registration ($325) includes one dinner ticket (until sold out).
Single day tickets are also available for $150.  Check out our tutorial program
at http://www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/web/program-detail.html

Keynote talks this year include:

Rusty Russell:	    "C: A Humbling Language"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Some languages have beautiful constructs and elegant power. Others
have novelty and fresh ideas. Surely C is a sometimes-necessary evil,
and been around so long that there's nothing new to discover about it?
So what kind of retarded masochist would select C as their language of
choice? And why?


Rasmus Lerdorf:     "Exploring the Broken Web"
------------------------------------------------------------------
XSS and XSRF has been a thorn in the side of the web for years now.
Rasmus will show some very common mistakes people make and tie it to
the real world by showing a vulnerability in actual sites.


Paul Fenwick:       "An Illustrated History of Failure"
------------------------------------------------------------------
The average individual is given little scope for failure, at least not
the type that really matters. The opportunity for catastrophic
failure, that influences nations or continents, has been traditionally
reserved for royalty, parliament, and others in a position of great
leadership.

However in recent times we have developed a profession who have the
opportunity to fail like never before. A profession that can make
mistakes that are so monumental, so wide-reaching, and so costly they
can shake civilisation to its very core. This elite group, rarely seen
by every day society, are the foundation upon which modern society
depends. The few, the proud, the Software Developer.

Join us for a voyage of discovery, as we travel back through history
to some of the most monumental failures the world has ever seen.


Jonathan Oxer:	    "Software Freedom: Pragmatic Idealism?"
------------------------------------------------------------------
The Free / Open Source Software (FOSS) community is incredibly diverse with a
corresponding variety of reasons for participation. At one end of the scale is
dreamy idealism, which aims to free all information for the good of mankind. At
the other end is economic pragmatism, which sees Open Source as a powerful
business opportunity and software development model.

Is there common middle ground where both ends of the spectrum can meet? Can Free
Software really can be Pragmatic Idealism? And what are we doing as a country in
terms of building a sustainable local ICT industry?


Be a part of this fantastic conference and help it be the best developers'
conference this year!  If your business would like to benefit from exposure
to many of Australia's best open source developers then perhaps you should
consider sponsorship.  We have a wide range of sponsorship options, to find
out more information please visit:
http://www.osdc.com.au/sponsors/index.html

	Jacinta Richardson 
	OSDC Publicity Officer

From gaurav.chandoke at mentaura.com.au  Sun Nov 18 14:05:37 2007
From: gaurav.chandoke at mentaura.com.au (Gaurav Chandoke)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:05:37 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Joining the Email List
Message-ID: <4C6B9F265085F647A5214A9586C9ED4FB237E0@rsa.Mentaura.local>

 

 

Gaurav Chandoke| IT Recruitment Consultant

Mentaura Recruitment Australia

Level 2, 1 Queens Road 

Melbourne Victoria 3004 Australia

t: + 61 3 9863 9600

m: 0424 504 053

i: www.mentaura.com.au <http://www.mentaura.com.au/>  

 

  <http://www.mentaura.com.au/> 

The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be protected by
legal professional privilege. The contents (including attachments) may
also be subject to Copyright. It is intended solely for the addressee
and access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not
the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any
action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and
may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from
your computer.

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/melbourne-pm/attachments/20071119/4bce0281/attachment-0001.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 19556 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/melbourne-pm/attachments/20071119/4bce0281/attachment-0001.jpe 

From wigs at stirfried.org  Sun Nov 18 14:29:04 2007
From: wigs at stirfried.org (wigs at stirfried.org)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:29:04 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] UTF-8 headaches
In-Reply-To: <12ACA141-69FE-4F6A-85EA-E477E22462D3@alchemy.com.au>
References: <4C8FCD0E-E290-4357-9325-4390C179E41F@gmail.com>
	<473BF07D.7000803@rea-group.com>
	<12ACA141-69FE-4F6A-85EA-E477E22462D3@alchemy.com.au>
Message-ID: <20071118222904.GA12566@stirfried.org>

On Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 08:49:25AM +1100, Guy Morton wrote:
> I think is_utf8() might be a good diagnostic tool for this - eg i  
> might just test every fragment before I allow it into the final  
> output and if it fails leave it out.

And, if your environment is perl 5.6 (and thus is_utf8() is unavailable)
then you can use DBI::data_string_desc() for your debugging to determine
if a given perl string is considered to be UTF8 by the perl runtime.

-- 
Wigs

From jarich at perltraining.com.au  Tue Nov 20 20:09:59 2007
From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:09:59 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] [Fwd: [Osia-discuss] Open Source Industry and
 Community Census - closes next week!]
Message-ID: <4743AF97.4070309@perltraining.com.au>

More surveying!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Osia-discuss] Open Source Industry and Community Census - closes next 
week!
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:05:33 +1100
From: Pia Waugh <pia at waughpartners.com.au>
To: OSIA List <osia-discuss at lists.osia.net.au>

Hi all,

If you haven't already filled in the Open Source Census for your company (or
yourself) then please note you only have till next Friday to get in and
finish it. It only take about 10 - 15 minutes (depending on how detailed you
are) and will really help raise the profile of our industry and community.

We have a PR company working with us on the launch, which will be in
February, and we plan to have this reported in the general business and
Government media, not just the tech media, so we all will benefit from
participation :)

Thank you to those who have already completed their surveys! We are well on
the way to reaching our target numbers, but we need more.

All details are here:

   http://census.waughpartners.com.au/

Please click on the "industry" button for companies and "community" for
individuals, and please encourage your technical and community people to
also fill in the community census as individuals.

Thanks all! The report will be freely available in February for everyone.

Cheers,
Pia

-- 
Waugh Partners

   m. +61 400 966 453
   p. +61 2 9318 0284
   f. +61 2 9318 2884
   w. http://waughpartners.com.au/

Open Source: Strategic Consulting, Industry Development, Research & Analysis
_______________________________________________
Osia-discuss mailing list
Osia-discuss at lists.osia.net.au
http://lists.osia.net.au/mailman/listinfo/osia-discuss
wiki http://wiki.osia.net.au/


From pjf at perltraining.com.au  Mon Nov 26 20:13:26 2007
From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:13:26 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] Talk commitments
Message-ID: <474B9966.4010904@perltraining.com.au>

Hi Everyone!  At OSDC, so apologies for the very short e-mail.

Just a quick note to say that Skud has publicly volunteered her excellent
talk on packaging perl applications for the December Melb.pm meeting.  ;)

Cheerio,

	Paul

-- 
Paul Fenwick <pjf at perltraining.com.au> | http://perltraining.com.au/
Director of Training                   | Ph:  +61 3 9354 6001
Perl Training Australia                | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681

From alecclews at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 21:15:03 2007
From: alecclews at gmail.com (Alec Clews)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:15:03 +1100
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] The future of Perl programming
Message-ID: <C371F307.760A%alecclews@gmail.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc

I'm looking forward to doing this. Makes Vista look like an attractive
upgrade....


-- 
 
Alec Clews