From goonmail at netspace.net.au Wed Oct 1 19:59:35 2003 From: goonmail at netspace.net.au (peter renshaw) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: tied - hash question at perlmonks.org Message-ID: <3F7B7877.1010903@netspace.net.au> found a small discussion on tied hashs on perlmonks.org - http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=295518 regs PR From scottp at dd.com.au Wed Oct 1 20:27:48 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: tied - hash question at perlmonks.org In-Reply-To: <3F7B7877.1010903@netspace.net.au> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 10:59 Australia/Melbourne, peter renshaw wrote: > found a small discussion on tied hashs on perlmonks.org - > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=295518 > > regs PR Interesting discussion. I agree with the argument that you should be using OO. But... as I discussed a few weeks ago, there are some times reasons to use a tied HASH * 3rd party code demands it (no access to make changes) * Existing code demands it (too damn hard to make changes) * Aesthetics demands it The last is interesting, but if you want to provide a bit of data to a user in say Template Toolkit, where they can do... my data for key fred = [% data.fred %] now setting it to george. [% data.fred = 'george' %] now my data for fred = [% data.fred %] Then for simplicity to the user (whom is generally not a hard core perl programmer) is a little easier then... my data for key fred = [% data.fred %] now setting it to george. [% data.fred.set('george') %] There are even other alternatives - but for the purpose of handing on code to web developers I like the hash idea. I have also often used a hash of subs in template toolkit, so that users can have a hash that looks a little like this in perl... my %data = ( 'fred' => sub { $this->_callback_fred(@_); }, 'george' => sub { $this->_callback_george(@_); }, ); Each callback returns either an array or a hash, and then in TT land users can simply do things like this... [% FOREACH row = data.fred %] ID [% row.id %] = [% row.name %] [% END %] or even.... George First Name is [% data.george.first_name %] The fact that data is a hash of subs that return a hash or array ref, vs a predefined data structure is then completely hidden from the template developer. The reason I did this was to do it as a callback instead, so that I only had to generate the data (big database calls) if this particular template from this particular developer required it in this circumstance :-) Scott - -- Scott Penrose VP in charge of Pancakes http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: If you receive this email in error - please eat it immediately to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/e38XDCFCcmAm26YRAjGIAJ0SP3NS/zRs7LH6PqzZvOtjpGlY2wCfdGoX o4un8K3AiK5O4IMP9/sSH80= =ujOe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mjs at beebo.org Wed Oct 1 21:52:00 2003 From: mjs at beebo.org (Michael Stillwell) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: tied - hash question at perlmonks.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7B92D0.70506@beebo.org> Scott Penrose wrote: > * Aesthetics demands it I reckon this in itself is a pretty good reason for tied hashes. If whatever object you're manipulating behaves pretty much like a hash, why not make it look like one too? A row from a database works pretty well as a tied hash that updates the database when its "STORE" method is hit, for example. I don't see that there are any OO implications if only hash-like things are tied. Even then it's pretty easy to get the underlying object back: my $obj = tied (%$hash)->{HASH}; --M. -- http://beebo.org From gavin1868 at mail.hongkong.com Thu Oct 2 01:04:54 2003 From: gavin1868 at mail.hongkong.com (=?Big5?B?ucWlWw==?=) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: =?Big5?B?qfqk0aq6pua1e35+p0Gl/b1UqXc=?= Message-ID: <200310020519.h925J5l10423@mail.pm.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031002/ee3717b7/attachment.htm From scottp at myinternet.com.au Thu Oct 2 02:07:31 2003 From: scottp at myinternet.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Time Delta Message-ID: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am trying to do the age old problem... * Here is DateTime 1 * Here is DateTime 2 * Here is the working week (Mon-Fri, 9-5) (or whatever we define) * Tell me the working hours between DateTime 1 and DateTime 2 eg: DateTime 1 DateTime 2 Difference 19/8/2003 16:35 20/8/2003 11:15 2:40 or - 2 hours, 40 minutes What is the simplest, shortest way. Scooter - -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/e862DCFCcmAm26YRAlaOAKCGGnEqG7H+QOGhd180m9h2tlA0ygCdGokU VARVdYHr36kB7QnldMJ+Nvw= =6itw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From simon at unisolve.com.au Thu Oct 2 02:51:36 2003 From: simon at unisolve.com.au (Simon Taylor) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Time Delta In-Reply-To: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> References: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> Message-ID: <200310021751.36752.simon@unisolve.com.au> Hello Scott, > * Here is DateTime 1 > * Here is DateTime 2 > * Here is the working week (Mon-Fri, 9-5) (or whatever we define) > * Tell me the working hours between DateTime 1 and DateTime 2 > > eg: > DateTime 1 DateTime 2 Difference > > 19/8/2003 16:35 20/8/2003 11:15 2:40 > > or - 2 hours, 40 minutes > > What is the simplest, shortest way. I'd use Date::Manip as follows: #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; use Date::Manip; my $err; my $date; $date = DateCalc("August 19,2003 16:35", "August 20, 2003 11:15", \$err, 3); print "delta: $date\n"; Which gives the output: delta: +0:0:0:0:3:40:0 ie: 3 hrs and 40 minutes. You'll have to tell date::Manip what constitutes business hours in the region you're working in, and also what the default date format is so that it will understand DD/MM/YYYY date formats. Regards, Simon Taylor -- Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia +61 3 9568 2005 From joshua at roughtrade.net Thu Oct 2 03:03:23 2003 From: joshua at roughtrade.net (Joshua Goodall) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Time Delta In-Reply-To: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> References: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> Message-ID: <20031002080323.GM617@roughtrade.net> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 05:07:31PM +1000, Scott Penrose wrote: > I am trying to do the age old problem... > > * Here is DateTime 1 > * Here is DateTime 2 > * Here is the working week (Mon-Fri, 9-5) (or whatever we define) > * Tell me the working hours between DateTime 1 and DateTime 2 Business::Hours? J From Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu Thu Oct 2 02:33:17 2003 From: Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu (Nathan Bailey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Time Delta In-Reply-To: "02 Oct 2003 17:07:31 +1000." <"16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8"@myinternet.com.au> Message-ID: <200310020733.h927XICv191672@goaway.its.monash.edu.au> use Date::Manip? It understands workdays (with holidays in a special file), date calculations, hour calculations, etc. Big (i.e. not light), but powerful. N From rickm at printaform.com.au Thu Oct 2 03:08:55 2003 From: rickm at printaform.com.au (Rick Measham) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Time Delta In-Reply-To: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> References: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> Message-ID: At 5:07 PM +1000 2/10/03, Scott Penrose wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >I am trying to do the age old problem... > >* Here is DateTime 1 >* Here is DateTime 2 >* Here is the working week (Mon-Fri, 9-5) (or whatever we define) >* Tell me the working hours between DateTime 1 and DateTime 2 > >eg: > > DateTime 1 DateTime 2 Difference > > 19/8/2003 16:35 20/8/2003 11:15 2:40 > >or - 2 hours, 40 minutes > >What is the simplest, shortest way. G'day Scott, I promised a few months back to talk about DateTime sometime soon. Tell me when and I'll be there. The following *should* solve your problem, but doesn't. I get a strange error at the end when creating the intersection. To solve this (and maybe to get a better answer) I've CC'd this to the DateTime mailing list. G'day DateTimers, Any clues on why the intersections don't create properly? use DateTime; use DateTime::Span; use DateTime::Set; use DateTime::SpanSet; use Data::Dumper; # For displaying results $datetime1 = DateTime->new( year => 2003, month => 8, day => 19, hour => 16, minute => 35 ); $datetime2 = DateTime->new( year => 2003, month => 8, day => 20, hour => 11, minute => 15 ); $span = DateTime::Span->from_datetimes( start => $datetime1, end => $datetime2 ); $wd_start = DateTime::Set->from_recurrence( recurrence => sub { # Tomorrow at 9 am $_[0]->truncate( to => 'day' )->add( days => 1, hours => 9 ); # Add two days if it's Saturday $_[0]->add( days => 2) if $_[0]->day == 6; }, ); $wd_end = DateTime::Set->from_recurrence( recurrence => sub { # Tomorrow at 5pm $_[0]->truncate( to => 'day' )->add( days => 1, hours => 17 ); # Add two days if it's Saturday $_[0]->add( days => 2) if $_[0]->day == 6; }, ); $working_hours = DateTime::SpanSet->from_sets( start_set => $wd_start, end_set => $wd_end, ); $relevent_work_hours = $working_hours->intersection( $span ); print Dumper($relevent_work_hours->duration->deltas); From fglock at pucrs.br Thu Oct 2 07:35:35 2003 From: fglock at pucrs.br (Flavio S. Glock) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Time Delta References: <16E12175-F4A7-11D7-A866-003065B58CF8@myinternet.com.au> Message-ID: <3F7C1B97.26A5@pucrs.br> Rick Measham wrote: > > At 5:07 PM +1000 2/10/03, Scott Penrose wrote: > > >I am trying to do the age old problem... > > > >* Here is DateTime 1 > >* Here is DateTime 2 > >* Here is the working week (Mon-Fri, 9-5) (or whatever we define) > >* Tell me the working hours between DateTime 1 and DateTime 2 > > > >eg: > > > > DateTime 1 DateTime 2 Difference > > > > 19/8/2003 16:35 20/8/2003 11:15 2:40 > > > >or - 2 hours, 40 minutes > > > >What is the simplest, shortest way. > [...] > G'day DateTimers, > Any clues on why the intersections don't create properly? Rick: Creating a complex recurrence function is hard. It is much easier to use DT::Event::Recurrence: use DateTime; use DateTime::Span; use DateTime::Set; use DateTime::SpanSet; use DateTime::Event::Recurrence; use Data::Dumper; # For displaying results $datetime1 = DateTime->new( year => 2003, month => 8, day => 19, hour => 16, minute => 35 ); $datetime2 = DateTime->new( year => 2003, month => 8, day => 20, hour => 11, minute => 15 ); $span = DateTime::Span->from_datetimes( start => $datetime1, end => $datetime2 ); $wd_start = DateTime::Event::Recurrence->weekly( days => [ 1,2,3,4,5 ], hours => [ 9 ], ); $wd_end = DateTime::Event::Recurrence->weekly( days => [ 1,2,3,4,5 ], hours => [ 17 ], ); $working_hours = DateTime::SpanSet->from_sets( start_set => $wd_start, end_set => $wd_end, ); $relevent_work_hours = $working_hours->intersection( $span ); print Dumper($relevent_work_hours->duration->deltas); ---- $VAR1 = 'months'; $VAR2 = 0; $VAR3 = 'days'; $VAR4 = 0; $VAR5 = 'minutes'; $VAR6 = 160; $VAR7 = 'seconds'; $VAR8 = 0; $VAR9 = 'nanoseconds'; $VAR10 = 0; - Flavio S. Glock From bd2003colombia at netscape.net Thu Oct 2 10:48:21 2003 From: bd2003colombia at netscape.net (Este Sabado) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Donde Jugar la Suerte Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031002/69a09cd4/attachment.htm From wayland at smartchat.net.au Fri Oct 3 10:39:59 2003 From: wayland at smartchat.net.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: spams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Scott Penrose wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > We have not had a chance to implement / review it yet - and I would be > VERY glad for anyone to take this on - but we were planning to > implement Spam Assassin and start logging archives of the list to our > site. > > This should not be hard. We have SSH access to the server and the > maintainer of the server is very cool about adding code etc. > But I am uncertain to the actual way we must get this done, I don't > even know how it can be hooked in (maybe it is just a We run spamassassin at work. I see they use Postfix -- we use courier-mta. What mailing list software do they use. Basically, at work, we pass all e-mails through SpamAssassin. Each person's .spamassassin file lets them control at what level the spam is filtered (or would if we gave them access to the mail server :o) ). Then if they want their spam filtered, we use a simple script which basically says if(X-Spam-Status = /Yes/) { Filter to "Maildir/.Spam" } Or something like that. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland@smartchat.net.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+ s:- a- C++>++++$ U++ P++ L++ E- W+++ N+ w>--- V- Y+>++ PGP->++ R !tv b++ DI++++ D+ G e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From wayland at smartchat.net.au Fri Oct 3 10:43:48 2003 From: wayland at smartchat.net.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Time Delta In-Reply-To: <3F7C1B97.26A5@pucrs.br> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Flavio S. Glock wrote: > Rick Measham wrote: > > > > At 5:07 PM +1000 2/10/03, Scott Penrose wrote: > > > > >I am trying to do the age old problem... > > > > > >* Here is DateTime 1 > > >* Here is DateTime 2 > > >* Here is the working week (Mon-Fri, 9-5) (or whatever we define) > > >* Tell me the working hours between DateTime 1 and DateTime 2 I've been working on an extension to Time::Piece which I call Time::Period. Then you can subtract one Time::Period from another, and it gives a Time::Seconds which is the length of the first time period minus the length of the *overlapping* second time period. It'd be nice if we had an easy way to shoot this problem in the head :). > > > > > >eg: > > > > > > DateTime 1 DateTime 2 Difference > > > > > > 19/8/2003 16:35 20/8/2003 11:15 2:40 > > > > > >or - 2 hours, 40 minutes > > > > > >What is the simplest, shortest way. > > > [...] > > G'day DateTimers, > > Any clues on why the intersections don't create properly? > > Rick: > > Creating a complex recurrence function is hard. > It is much easier to use DT::Event::Recurrence: > > use DateTime; > use DateTime::Span; > use DateTime::Set; > use DateTime::SpanSet; > use DateTime::Event::Recurrence; > > use Data::Dumper; # For displaying results > > $datetime1 = DateTime->new( > year => 2003, > month => 8, > day => 19, > hour => 16, > minute => 35 > ); > $datetime2 = DateTime->new( > year => 2003, > month => 8, > day => 20, > hour => 11, > minute => 15 > ); > > $span = DateTime::Span->from_datetimes( > start => $datetime1, > end => $datetime2 > ); > > > $wd_start = DateTime::Event::Recurrence->weekly( > days => [ 1,2,3,4,5 ], > hours => [ 9 ], > ); > > $wd_end = DateTime::Event::Recurrence->weekly( > days => [ 1,2,3,4,5 ], > hours => [ 17 ], > ); > > $working_hours = DateTime::SpanSet->from_sets( > start_set => $wd_start, > end_set => $wd_end, > ); > > $relevent_work_hours = $working_hours->intersection( $span ); > > print Dumper($relevent_work_hours->duration->deltas); > > ---- > $VAR1 = 'months'; > $VAR2 = 0; > $VAR3 = 'days'; > $VAR4 = 0; > $VAR5 = 'minutes'; > $VAR6 = 160; > $VAR7 = 'seconds'; > $VAR8 = 0; > $VAR9 = 'nanoseconds'; > $VAR10 = 0; > > > - Flavio S. Glock > --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland@smartchat.net.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+ s:- a- C++>++++$ U++ P++ L++ E- W+++ N+ w>--- V- Y+>++ PGP->++ R !tv b++ DI++++ D+ G e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From mpm at bachelorguy.com Sun Oct 5 00:38:03 2003 From: mpm at bachelorguy.com (ADFH) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? Message-ID: <20031005153803.50c36d7e.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Basically I'm writing a generic "insert/update" function into my program that goes and checks the table it's inserting data into for prompts as to what kind of sanity checking it should do on the data, whether what it thinks is the primary key is indeed the primary key, whether it should insert or update etc. etc. etc. To do this, I'm getting MySQL to give me output of SHOW COLUMNS on the specific table, then wanting to store this in a hash. I then plan to parse the data received from the end user's browser, to see if it's the correct type, within range etc. etc. then quote/escape it appropriately. The function is being used for several tables with varying numbers of columns and data types. I don't forsee the script being placed under a lot of load and at this point I don't want to duplicate similar code with only slight alterations to check each table. Is there something I should use that already does this? Is my thinking flawed? Am I reinventing the wheel in regards to some DBI/DBD function I haven't found? Anyway, a bit of the code I'm working on gives me an error I've not seen before. In this particular script I'm writing, I've been getting a little more adventurous with references and functions etc. etc. and am a bit out of my depth I think (I did some netizen courses years ago, and have been using their doco, the camel book, cpan and the perl man pages since). What am I doing wrong here? I'm thinking I've just borked up some bracket types somewhere. my $statement= "SHOW COLUMNS FROM ${table_names{$table}}"; my $sth=$dbh->prepare($statement); $sth->execute(); my (%dbct, $dbr_ref); while ($dbr_ref=$sth->fetchrow_hashref("NAME_lc")) { $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=( type => $dbr_ref->{'type'}, key => $dbr_ref->{'key'}, blank => $dbr_ref->{'null'} ); # Line 152 } $sth->finish(); Gives warnings: [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void context at index.cgi line 152. Using: MySQL 4.0.14 Perl v5.8.1 built for i386-linux-thread-multi From egmboe at yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 5 01:07:25 2003 From: egmboe at yahoogroups.com (Charmaine Garland) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Order from home, 100% confidential msja Message-ID: <00-9l$n6-nvy4$5a0@ndnqdd> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031005/481921a2/attachment.htm From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Oct 5 18:49:15 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: spams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87348C19-F78E-11D7-8B11-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, Oct 4, 2003, at 01:39 Australia/Melbourne, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Scott Penrose wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> We have not had a chance to implement / review it yet - and I would be >> VERY glad for anyone to take this on - but we were planning to >> implement Spam Assassin and start logging archives of the list to our >> site. >> >> This should not be hard. We have SSH access to the server and the >> maintainer of the server is very cool about adding code etc. >> But I am uncertain to the actual way we must get this done, I don't >> even know how it can be hooked in (maybe it is just a > > We run spamassassin at work. I see they use Postfix -- we use > courier-mta. What mailing list software do they use. > > Basically, at work, we pass all e-mails through SpamAssassin. Each > person's .spamassassin file lets them control at what level the spam is > filtered (or would if we gave them access to the mail server :o) ). > Then if > they want their spam filtered, we use a simple script which basically > says > > if(X-Spam-Status = /Yes/) { > Filter to "Maildir/.Spam" > } > > Or something like that. > > :) Unfortunately that is not the problem. I personally already run SpamAssassin and know how to do it. The problem is that we do not run the pm.org server. That is run by a guy in the US. So what I am looking at - is how do we run SpamAssassin through the US server ? We need internal knowledge of pm.org setup, which at this stage I can't get. Scott - -- Scott Penrose VP in charge of Pancakes http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: If you receive this email in error - please eat it immediately to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/gK3+DCFCcmAm26YRAqL4AJ4lMbj9gcmCR37FOLeTQGMCyqeAegCfe7SU DnoEnWYaQP17xA0stA47l3M= =bNd6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Michael.Fox at auspost.com.au Sun Oct 5 18:46:17 2003 From: Michael.Fox at auspost.com.au (Fox, Michael) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? Message-ID: 1) You seem to have () instead of {} in your anonymous hash constructor 2) Have you tried the primary key method as in @key_column_names = $dbh->primary_key( $catalog, $schema, $table ); It works for me for Oracle, don't know about MySQL Michael Fox -----Original Message----- From: ADFH [mailto:mpm@bachelorguy.com] Sent: Sunday, 5 October 2003 3:38 PM To: melbourne-pm@pm.org Cc: mpm@bachelorguy.com Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? Basically I'm writing a generic "insert/update" function into my program that goes and checks the table it's inserting data into for prompts as to what kind of sanity checking it should do on the data, whether what it thinks is the primary key is indeed the primary key, whether it should insert or update etc. etc. etc. To do this, I'm getting MySQL to give me output of SHOW COLUMNS on the specific table, then wanting to store this in a hash. I then plan to parse the data received from the end user's browser, to see if it's the correct type, within range etc. etc. then quote/escape it appropriately. The function is being used for several tables with varying numbers of columns and data types. I don't forsee the script being placed under a lot of load and at this point I don't want to duplicate similar code with only slight alterations to check each table. Is there something I should use that already does this? Is my thinking flawed? Am I reinventing the wheel in regards to some DBI/DBD function I haven't found? Anyway, a bit of the code I'm working on gives me an error I've not seen before. In this particular script I'm writing, I've been getting a little more adventurous with references and functions etc. etc. and am a bit out of my depth I think (I did some netizen courses years ago, and have been using their doco, the camel book, cpan and the perl man pages since). What am I doing wrong here? I'm thinking I've just borked up some bracket types somewhere. my $statement= "SHOW COLUMNS FROM ${table_names{$table}}"; my $sth=$dbh->prepare($statement); $sth->execute(); my (%dbct, $dbr_ref); while ($dbr_ref=$sth->fetchrow_hashref("NAME_lc")) { $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=( type => $dbr_ref->{'type'}, key => $dbr_ref->{'key'}, blank => $dbr_ref->{'null'} ); # Line 152 } $sth->finish(); Gives warnings: [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void context at index.cgi line 152. [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void context at index.cgi line 152. Using: MySQL 4.0.14 Perl v5.8.1 built for i386-linux-thread-multi Australia Post is committed to providing our customers with excellent service. If we can assist you in any way please either telephone 13 13 18 or visit our website www.auspost.com.au. CAUTION This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you have received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify Australia Post immediately by return e-mail to the sender; and (c) please delete the original e-mail. From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Oct 5 18:52:33 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: <20031005153803.50c36d7e.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > my $statement= "SHOW COLUMNS FROM ${table_names{$table}}"; > my $sth=$dbh->prepare($statement); > $sth->execute(); > my (%dbct, $dbr_ref); > while ($dbr_ref=$sth->fetchrow_hashref("NAME_lc")) { > $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=( > type => $dbr_ref->{'type'}, > key => $dbr_ref->{'key'}, > blank => $dbr_ref->{'null'} > ); # Line 152 > } > $sth->finish(); Found your problem... > $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}={ > type => $dbr_ref->{'type'}, > key => $dbr_ref->{'key'}, > blank => $dbr_ref->{'null'} > }; # Line 152 You are assigning an array or list to a scalar - which does not work. Instead, you need here to assign a hashref, which is the only way to assign a hash to a scalar. Scott - -- Scott Penrose VP in charge of Pancakes http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: If you receive this email in error - please eat it immediately to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/gK7EDCFCcmAm26YRAuufAJ4reTkY5n/At4wmKaa0RiZwBKYmwgCeJdNS eNkuO7bJlSZDgfOwGRh4Z3Q= =YLHL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ac at mail.market-research.com Sun Oct 5 19:04:44 2003 From: ac at mail.market-research.com (Andrew Creer) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031006000444.GB30857@market-research.com> On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 09:46:17AM +1000, Fox, Michael wrote: > > 1) You seem to have () instead of {} in your anonymous hash constructor > > 2) Have you tried the primary key method as in > @key_column_names = $dbh->primary_key( $catalog, $schema, $table ); > It works for me for Oracle, don't know about MySQL For MySQL the DBI methods $sth->{NAME} $sth->{TYPE} $sth->{PRECISION} $sth->{SCALE} $sth->{NULLABLE} all return arrays of relavent data after you have done a $sth->execute() Using these will make your code more portable. > > Michael Fox > > -----Original Message----- > From: ADFH [mailto:mpm@bachelorguy.com] > Sent: Sunday, 5 October 2003 3:38 PM > To: melbourne-pm@pm.org > Cc: mpm@bachelorguy.com > Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? > > > Basically I'm writing a generic "insert/update" function into my program > that goes and checks the table it's inserting data into for prompts as > to what kind of sanity checking it should do on the data, whether what > it thinks is the primary key is indeed the primary key, whether it > should insert or update etc. etc. etc. > > To do this, I'm getting MySQL to give me output of SHOW COLUMNS on the > specific table, then wanting to store this in a hash. I then plan to > parse the data received from the end user's browser, to see if it's the > correct type, within range etc. etc. then quote/escape it appropriately. > > The function is being used for several tables with varying numbers of > columns and data types. I don't forsee the script being placed under a > lot of load and at this point I don't want to duplicate similar code > with only slight alterations to check each table. > > Is there something I should use that already does this? Is my thinking > flawed? Am I reinventing the wheel in regards to some DBI/DBD function I > haven't found? > > Anyway, a bit of the code I'm working on gives me an error I've not seen > before. In this particular script I'm writing, I've been getting a > little more adventurous with references and functions etc. etc. and am a > bit out of my depth I think (I did some netizen courses years ago, and > have been using their doco, the camel book, cpan and the perl man pages > since). > > What am I doing wrong here? I'm thinking I've just borked up some > bracket types somewhere. > > my $statement= "SHOW COLUMNS FROM ${table_names{$table}}"; > my $sth=$dbh->prepare($statement); > $sth->execute(); > my (%dbct, $dbr_ref); > while ($dbr_ref=$sth->fetchrow_hashref("NAME_lc")) { > $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=( > type => $dbr_ref->{'type'}, > key => $dbr_ref->{'key'}, > blank => $dbr_ref->{'null'} > ); # Line 152 > } > $sth->finish(); > > Gives warnings: > > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > > Using: > > MySQL 4.0.14 > Perl v5.8.1 built for i386-linux-thread-multi > > > > Australia Post is committed to providing our customers with excellent service. If we can assist you in any way please either telephone 13 13 18 or visit our website www.auspost.com.au. > > CAUTION > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you have received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify Australia Post immediately by return e-mail to the sender; and (c) please delete the original e-mail. -- Andrew Creer Phone + 61 3 9689 5299 Systems Developer Fax + 61 3 9689 5399 Horizon Research Corporation US Toll Free 1877 342 0928 From Michael.Fox at auspost.com.au Sun Oct 5 19:15:18 2003 From: Michael.Fox at auspost.com.au (Fox, Michael) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? Message-ID: Yep, this is the portable way to get metadata for the data to be returned by the statement handle, but if you want to get primary key info for a table in a portable way then use the primary_key_info and primary_key methods -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Creer [mailto:ac@mail.market-research.com] Sent: Monday, 6 October 2003 10:05 AM To: Fox, Michael Cc: 'ADFH'; melbourne-pm@pm.org Subject: Re: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 09:46:17AM +1000, Fox, Michael wrote: > > 1) You seem to have () instead of {} in your anonymous hash constructor > > 2) Have you tried the primary key method as in > @key_column_names = $dbh->primary_key( $catalog, $schema, $table ); > It works for me for Oracle, don't know about MySQL For MySQL the DBI methods $sth->{NAME} $sth->{TYPE} $sth->{PRECISION} $sth->{SCALE} $sth->{NULLABLE} all return arrays of relavent data after you have done a $sth->execute() Using these will make your code more portable. > > Michael Fox > > -----Original Message----- > From: ADFH [mailto:mpm@bachelorguy.com] > Sent: Sunday, 5 October 2003 3:38 PM > To: melbourne-pm@pm.org > Cc: mpm@bachelorguy.com > Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? > > > Basically I'm writing a generic "insert/update" function into my program > that goes and checks the table it's inserting data into for prompts as > to what kind of sanity checking it should do on the data, whether what > it thinks is the primary key is indeed the primary key, whether it > should insert or update etc. etc. etc. > > To do this, I'm getting MySQL to give me output of SHOW COLUMNS on the > specific table, then wanting to store this in a hash. I then plan to > parse the data received from the end user's browser, to see if it's the > correct type, within range etc. etc. then quote/escape it appropriately. > > The function is being used for several tables with varying numbers of > columns and data types. I don't forsee the script being placed under a > lot of load and at this point I don't want to duplicate similar code > with only slight alterations to check each table. > > Is there something I should use that already does this? Is my thinking > flawed? Am I reinventing the wheel in regards to some DBI/DBD function I > haven't found? > > Anyway, a bit of the code I'm working on gives me an error I've not seen > before. In this particular script I'm writing, I've been getting a > little more adventurous with references and functions etc. etc. and am a > bit out of my depth I think (I did some netizen courses years ago, and > have been using their doco, the camel book, cpan and the perl man pages > since). > > What am I doing wrong here? I'm thinking I've just borked up some > bracket types somewhere. > > my $statement= "SHOW COLUMNS FROM ${table_names{$table}}"; > my $sth=$dbh->prepare($statement); > $sth->execute(); > my (%dbct, $dbr_ref); > while ($dbr_ref=$sth->fetchrow_hashref("NAME_lc")) { > $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=( > type => $dbr_ref->{'type'}, > key => $dbr_ref->{'key'}, > blank => $dbr_ref->{'null'} > ); # Line 152 > } > $sth->finish(); > > Gives warnings: > > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of hash element in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > [Sun Oct 5 15:22:29 2003] index.cgi: Useless use of a constant in void > context at index.cgi line 152. > > Using: > > MySQL 4.0.14 > Perl v5.8.1 built for i386-linux-thread-multi > > > > Australia Post is committed to providing our customers with excellent service. If we can assist you in any way please either telephone 13 13 18 or visit our website www.auspost.com.au. > > CAUTION > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you have received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify Australia Post immediately by return e-mail to the sender; and (c) please delete the original e-mail. -- Andrew Creer Phone + 61 3 9689 5299 Systems Developer Fax + 61 3 9689 5399 Horizon Research Corporation US Toll Free 1877 342 0928 Australia Post is committed to providing our customers with excellent service. If we can assist you in any way please either telephone 13 13 18 or visit our website www.auspost.com.au. CAUTION This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you have received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify Australia Post immediately by return e-mail to the sender; and (c) please delete the original e-mail. From pjf at perltraining.com.au Sun Oct 5 19:31:09 2003 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Perl Mongers Meeting, THIS WEDNESDAY Message-ID: <20031006003109.GB940@mukc.org.au> G'day Everyone, I'm very pleased to announce that a special Social Perl Mongers is happening THIS WEDNESDAY. There'll be an open mike for people wishing to talk to the group, there'll be opportunities for you to meet and network with other mongers, and you'll be able to discuss what Melb.PM should be doing in the future. Feel free to bring your spouses, cow-orkers, employers, and anyone else who may be interested in Perl or the people who use it. What: Melb.PM Social Meeting When: 6:30pm, This Wednesday 8th October Where: Level 8 MyInternet House Blackwood St North Melbourne Bring: Interesting things for show-and-tell. ;) I look forward to seeing you all there, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From mpm at bachelorguy.com Sun Oct 5 20:09:18 2003 From: mpm at bachelorguy.com (ADFH) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031006110918.610dea6e.mpm@bachelorguy.com> "Fox, Michael" wrote: > Yep, this is the portable way to get metadata for the data to be > returned by the statement handle, but if you want to get primary key > info for a table in a portable way then use the primary_key_info and > primary_key methods From: Andrew Creer > For MySQL the DBI methods > $sth->{NAME} > $sth->{TYPE} > $sth->{PRECISION} > $sth->{SCALE} > $sth->{NULLABLE} > all return arrays of relavent data after you have done a > $sth->execute() So instead of using "SHOW COLUMNS FROM table" I should be doing a limited "SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 1" and then reading the data shown above (as it's not always for data that exists in database).. The problem I have with this is, what does one do when there is no data in the table... as I'm dealing with data which may potentially be the first INSERT in the table. Perhaps being able to fetch the metadata alone for a given table should become a standardised function available in DBI? From: Scott Penrose > Instead, you need here to assign a hashref, which is the only way to > assign a hash to a scalar. So how does one get a reference out of a hash constructor - case of two line process? Ie. my %temphash=( .... => .... , .... ); $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=\%temphash; I guess I've always been curious - what's the difference between prefixing something with an ampersand or a backslash? I'm thinking ampersand dereferences and backslash generates reference. Is an area I never quite got (once I figure out this stuff, I think I'll revisit scoping in Perl then OO then making modules - experience is beginning to tell me, that just like learning vi :) , things tend to just "click" after awhile).. Anthony From jarich at perltraining.com.au Sun Oct 5 20:31:53 2003 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: <20031006110918.610dea6e.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, ADFH wrote: > > Instead, you need here to assign a hashref, which is the only way to > > assign a hash to a scalar. > > So how does one get a reference out of a hash constructor - case of two > line process? > > Ie. > my %temphash=( .... => .... , .... ); > $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=\%temphash; This can be replaced with: $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}= { ... => ..., ... => .... }; Note the curlies. An even length list in curly braces denotes a (annonymous) hash reference. A list in square brackets [] denotes an (annonymous) array reference. You mentioned that you attended a Netizen course in the past. You may be interested in knowing that Paul and I have been further developing those notes and you can see our coverage of references and the like in our Intermediate course notes at: http://www.perltraining.com.au Annonymous references are called such because they have no name, whereas in your example above your hash does have a name. > I guess I've always been curious - what's the difference between > prefixing something with an ampersand or a backslash? I'm thinking > ampersand dereferences and backslash generates reference. If you prefix something with an ampersand you're saying that it's a subroutine: &some_sub(); that you wish to call. If you wish to take a subroutine reference you can do it as follows: my $sub_ref = \&some_sub; or my $sub_ref = sub { ..... }; (annonymous subroutine). > Is an area I never quite got (once I figure out this stuff, I think I'll > revisit scoping in Perl then OO then making modules - experience is > beginning to tell me, that just like learning vi :) , things tend to > just "click" after awhile).. All the best at that. I hope our notes may be of use to you. Jacinta -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +613 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact@perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From mpm at bachelorguy.com Sun Oct 5 20:56:29 2003 From: mpm at bachelorguy.com (ADFH) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: References: <20031006110918.610dea6e.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: <20031006115629.3b037fcd.mpm@bachelorguy.com> > course in the past. You may be interested in knowing that Paul and I have > been further developing those notes and you can see our coverage of > references and the like in our Intermediate course notes at: > > http://www.perltraining.com.au Cool - shall have to take a peek. > If you prefix something with an ampersand you're saying that it's a > subroutine: > &some_sub(); Ok, so when I call a function foo like: print foo; I'm implying: print &foo(); ... assuming there are no variables called foo in the current context/scope? From jarich at perltraining.com.au Sun Oct 5 21:13:12 2003 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: <20031006115629.3b037fcd.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, ADFH wrote: > > If you prefix something with an ampersand you're saying that it's a > > subroutine: > > &some_sub(); > > Ok, so when I call a function foo like: > print foo; > I'm implying: > print &foo(); > ... assuming there are no variables called foo in the current > context/scope? Well... there are some (arcane, archaic and only-good-for-obfu) differences between calling subroutines with the ampersand and not, but leaving those aside... When you call a function foo like: print foo; you run the risk of confusing Perl with regards to what it should expect foo to be. If your subroutine definition of foo is below your call, and you're using strict (because of course you are) then your code probably won't compile. When you call a function foo like: print foo(); # this is the preferred way then this is equivalent to calling it as: print &foo(); and is also equivalent (mostly, ignoring the magic stuff) to: print &foo; You will need to preceed your subroutine calls with ampersands if you've named one of your subroutines the same name as a built in Perl function. But don't do that: print "foo"; # Uses built in Perl function print &print("foo"); # Uses my subroutine print &print "foo"; # Uses my subroutine print The need for using ampersands in many cases went out with Perl 4. Which is good. There are a few cases where they remain important (such as taking references to subroutines) but typically good Perl code (according to my opinions) doesn't tend to use them. I prefer: print foo(); over any of the alternatives. All the best, Jacinta -- ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ | Jacinta Richardson | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) | Perl Training Australia | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' | +613 9354 6001 | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' | contact@perltraining.com.au | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' | www.perltraining.com.au | From melbourne.pm at bowman.bs Sun Oct 5 21:19:39 2003 From: melbourne.pm at bowman.bs (Brad Bowman) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:04 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: <20031006115629.3b037fcd.mpm@bachelorguy.com> References: <20031006110918.610dea6e.mpm@bachelorguy.com> <20031006115629.3b037fcd.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: <1065406779.591.9.camel@oxum> > > If you prefix something with an ampersand you're saying that it's a > > subroutine: > > &some_sub(); > > Ok, so when I call a function foo like: > print foo; > I'm implying: > print &foo(); > ... assuming there are no variables called foo in the current > context/scope? The & call prefix may do other stuff too. It's ol' skool so dodges prototypes and if used like &blah with no parens it gets the parents @_. Rarely what you want, so careful with &. (The \&sub for a reference to a named sub is ok though) > I guess I've always been curious - what's the difference between > prefixing something with an ampersand or a backslash? Are you a C programmer by chance? -- ... There is dignity in paucity of words. ... -- Hagakure From pjf at perltraining.com.au Sun Oct 5 21:24:37 2003 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: References: <20031006115629.3b037fcd.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: <20031006022437.GC940@mukc.org.au> G'day Everyone, On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 12:13:12PM +1000, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > When you call a function foo like: > print foo(); # this is the preferred way > then this is equivalent to calling it as: > print &foo(); > and is also equivalent (mostly, ignoring the magic stuff) to: > print &foo; Actually, it's worth mentioning what the magic stuff is here, since it can be a great big gotcha that you may not expect. Calling &foo without parentheses or arguments passes in the current value of @_ (the caller's argument list) to the subroutine. This is not something that every Perl programmer is aware, and certainly not something which is obvious from looking at the code. Most people assume that &foo calls the subroutine with no arguments. For this reason, I can highly recommend avoiding the use of & except when absolutely needed (such as when taking a subroutine ref). If you need to make something a subroutine call when it would otherwise be interpreted as a bareword: $hash{foo}; # Foo is considered a (bareword) string. then parentehses are highly preferred: $hash{foo()}; # Use the result of foo(). VS $hash{&foo}; # Unexpectedly use the result of foo(@_). Cheers, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From melbourne.pm at bowman.bs Sun Oct 5 21:25:24 2003 From: melbourne.pm at bowman.bs (Brad Bowman) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1065407124.569.16.camel@oxum> > Well... there are some (arcane, archaic and only-good-for-obfu) > differences between calling subroutines with the ampersand and > not, but leaving those aside... Arcane, but they can trip you up if you don't know. > When you call a function foo like: > print foo(); # this is the preferred way > then this is equivalent to calling it as: > print &foo(); But prototype is skipped. > and is also equivalent (mostly, ignoring the magic stuff) to: > print &foo; [12:21 s3]$ perl -wle 'sub fn ($) { print $_[0] }; &fn()' Use of uninitialized value in print at -e line 1. [12:22 s3]$ perl -wle 'sub fn ($) { print $_[0] }; fn()' Not enough arguments for main::fn at -e line 1, at end of line Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. -- After reading books and the like it is best to burn them or throw them away. -- Hagakure http://bowman.bs/hagakure/ From mpm at bachelorguy.com Sun Oct 5 22:00:24 2003 From: mpm at bachelorguy.com (ADFH) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? In-Reply-To: <1065406779.591.9.camel@oxum> References: <20031006110918.610dea6e.mpm@bachelorguy.com> <20031006115629.3b037fcd.mpm@bachelorguy.com> <1065406779.591.9.camel@oxum> Message-ID: <20031006130024.636da709.mpm@bachelorguy.com> > Are you a C programmer by chance? Sort of :) .. not that good though... Started with BASIC in 1983 (Dad bought a TRaSh-80 and made the mistake of leaving the manual out).. Some ASM in 1988 or so (only way to make sound on an Apple IIe - peeking and poking special memory address at frequency required - VERY clunky.. Oh yeah, and poke 1011,60 made Ctrl+Break reset the machine I think - that or it changed text mode colours on CoCo 3 :) ) DOS/4DOS batch files in 1994.. (200+ line autoexec with program menu system, logins, permissions etc. etc. :) .. the first time I installed Windows, I removed it soon after and went back to WordStar, QuattroPro and DisplayWrite [Mrmm... EBCDIC]) C++ in 1996.. MC68HC11/i808x ASM in 1996.. Java in 1998.. C in 1999-2000.. Perl some time between 1998 and now.. (Can you spot the engineering and comp. sci course? :)) By no means prolific in C/C++ - I HATE malloc/dealloc stuff, null terminating strings and having to calculate the length of stuff and remembering to do explicit garbage collection etc. :) Even worse at ASM :) (can't even remember it) Basically a lot of the stuff I end up doing these days is in Perl, bash or Java. Somewhere between developer and sysadmin one job - ISP helpdesk on another :) .. Had no real "goto free" programming teaching until university in '96. My preferred platform these days is Debian GNU/Linux (especially after Win2K file encryption when awry on me, and of all the files it decided to lose, it lost its decryption keys ;-) ) From Michael.Fox at auspost.com.au Mon Oct 6 02:02:27 2003 From: Michael.Fox at auspost.com.au (Fox, Michael) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? Message-ID: No - the method is on a database handle, not a statement handle; there is no need to prepare a select -----Original Message----- From: ADFH [mailto:mpm@bachelorguy.com] Sent: Monday, 6 October 2003 11:09 AM To: melbourne-pm@pm.org Subject: Re: Useless use of a (constant|hash element) in void context? "Fox, Michael" wrote: > Yep, this is the portable way to get metadata for the data to be > returned by the statement handle, but if you want to get primary key > info for a table in a portable way then use the primary_key_info and > primary_key methods From: Andrew Creer > For MySQL the DBI methods > $sth->{NAME} > $sth->{TYPE} > $sth->{PRECISION} > $sth->{SCALE} > $sth->{NULLABLE} > all return arrays of relavent data after you have done a > $sth->execute() So instead of using "SHOW COLUMNS FROM table" I should be doing a limited "SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 1" and then reading the data shown above (as it's not always for data that exists in database).. The problem I have with this is, what does one do when there is no data in the table... as I'm dealing with data which may potentially be the first INSERT in the table. Perhaps being able to fetch the metadata alone for a given table should become a standardised function available in DBI? From: Scott Penrose > Instead, you need here to assign a hashref, which is the only way to > assign a hash to a scalar. So how does one get a reference out of a hash constructor - case of two line process? Ie. my %temphash=( .... => .... , .... ); $dbct{$dbr_ref->{'field'}}=\%temphash; I guess I've always been curious - what's the difference between prefixing something with an ampersand or a backslash? I'm thinking ampersand dereferences and backslash generates reference. Is an area I never quite got (once I figure out this stuff, I think I'll revisit scoping in Perl then OO then making modules - experience is beginning to tell me, that just like learning vi :) , things tend to just "click" after awhile).. Anthony Australia Post is committed to providing our customers with excellent service. If we can assist you in any way please either telephone 13 13 18 or visit our website www.auspost.com.au. CAUTION This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you have received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify Australia Post immediately by return e-mail to the sender; and (c) please delete the original e-mail. From fdf258 at yahoo.com.br Mon Oct 6 11:36:17 2003 From: fdf258 at yahoo.com.br (fdf258) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: A Solução Natural para o Aumento de Tamanho e Potência do Pênis Message-ID: <20031006144700.B8D6398987@mail3.panix.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031006/0386d567/attachment.htm From paul.bongiorno at hp.com Tue Oct 7 01:39:59 2003 From: paul.bongiorno at hp.com (BONGIORNO,PAUL (HP-Australia,ex2)) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Signature Message-ID: I came across a funny signature block today perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);' From mpm at bachelorguy.com Tue Oct 7 02:43:35 2003 From: mpm at bachelorguy.com (ADFH) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Signature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031007174335.7480b0a2.mpm@bachelorguy.com> > perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);' *chuckle* From mjs at beebo.org Tue Oct 7 09:28:07 2003 From: mjs at beebo.org (Michael Stillwell) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: things that look different Message-ID: <782B8232-F8D2-11D7-B5B4-0003930BCEFA@beebo.org> On the topic of things that look different but do (almost?) the same thing, is there ever any reason to prefer one of these over the other: my $v1 = do { 1; }; my $v2 = sub { 1; }->(); ? (The sub approach lets you do an actual return, which does suit the construction, but the "}->();" bit sure is ugly...) --M. -- http://beebo.org -- http://beebo.org From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Oct 7 18:58:32 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: things that look different In-Reply-To: <782B8232-F8D2-11D7-B5B4-0003930BCEFA@beebo.org> Message-ID: <27A802DF-F922-11D7-B237-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, Oct 8, 2003, at 00:28 Australia/Melbourne, Michael Stillwell wrote: > On the topic of things that look different but do (almost?) the same > thing, is there ever any reason to prefer one of these over the other: > > my $v1 = do { > 1; > }; > > my $v2 = sub { > 1; > }->(); > > ? I guess it is just execution time. I would prefer the first... It is clearer to the next programmer if they see... do = Execute now sub = Keep for later Of course you can do the sub { ... }->() but that is just ugly (as you said) and adds some confusion. On the other hand it is always good to know how something works. You can see now how a do {} can be created from a sub {} :-) Scott > (The sub approach lets you do an actual return, which does suit the > construction, but the "}->();" bit sure is ugly...) > > > > > --M. > > -- > http://beebo.org > > > > > > > -- > http://beebo.org > > > > - -- Scott Penrose Welcome to the Digital Dimension http://www.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about butterflies either. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/g1MrDCFCcmAm26YRAjgvAKCBetXUKKTJo+EPlXm8vD4DELEKzwCgnx8i RgD3j2IMmjQLRi1P7vUyhLg= =ZmI7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottp at dd.com.au Thu Oct 9 01:23:19 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: YaCMaS accounts Message-ID: <130BCE0D-FA21-11D7-B237-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey Ho I have enabled YaCMaS accounts for all those who added them yesterday. If there are any missing, please email me directly and I will add you in. Please enjoy and start hacking up the site. Scooter - -- Scott Penrose Welcome to the Digital Dimension http://www.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about butterflies either. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/hP7YDCFCcmAm26YRAie2AJ9o/iWVTrbst/YoIHpO6Q41R4k0DQCgsz+d G4la5cJWsszdoBCQVvO5ysA= =Om94 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From h273ptgosz at attbi.com Thu Oct 9 13:45:53 2003 From: h273ptgosz at attbi.com (Harvey Quick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: New investment opportunity fbbowaek Message-ID: <10-m6habg2r9r3x$e55-57j-m72$7$o@yvv.k.i.y58> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031009/655a1f3a/attachment.htm From scottp at myinternet.com.au Thu Oct 9 16:08:02 2003 From: scottp at myinternet.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey Dudes, Does anyone here have any experience with JINI. For those who don't, JINI is a network protocol that is designed, like a java bean to be automatically discoverable, including capabilities etc. The protocol and classes are used in things like a networked PIR (Passive Infrared detector, or motion detector). The idea is that you plug it into the network, it is automatically discoverable, you setup an alarm program which can go off when triggered by an event (or loss of signal). You may have a number of alarm devices around a network and a number of PIRs and maybe 1 or more controlling points. The PIR can trigger an event to each of the alarms and controlling program. Pulling down one keeps it active etc. Anyway, the principle really is: * Automatic discovery over TCP/IP * Methods and Events discoverable * Small and fairly simple (both in implementation and protocol) Unfortunately JINI is highly Java only. It actually sends byte code to and from devices by treating it as a J2EE distributed system. For my own use, I have a simple protocol which does a UDP broadcast to discover other devices. Devices return a type and capabilities, but only specifically for my application (eg: I am a light; I have been on for 37 minutes; you can send me off, on, swap, timed). The problem is that I want and need to write this code in Perl and JINI won't allow that (wrappers are ok, but you have a lot of baggage and it is hard to get good cooperation). So my question is: Is there any open, non platform specific, non language specific, protocols out in the real world which attempt to solve some or all of this problem. If so then I would prefer to write my perl modules around that infrastructure than invent my own crappy protocol. So... anyone here of anything like that ? Scott - -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/hc8TDCFCcmAm26YRArfIAJ9vyTVUqiefxHvidDyaA5wwA6W4GQCeIcpb NXQI4Ncbp/3s8sd8rxFQ0j4= =x7Sb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david_dick at iprimus.com.au Thu Oct 9 17:02:12 2003 From: david_dick at iprimus.com.au (David Dick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F85DAE4.4050902@iprimus.com.au> zeroconf might help some of the way, but i don't know how you would advertise methods. I think it's really only suitable for service name and type. http://www.swampwolf.com/products/ has a cross platform version of zeroconf. uru -Dave Scott Penrose wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hey Dudes, > > Does anyone here have any experience with JINI. > > For those who don't, JINI is a network protocol that is designed, like > a java bean to be automatically discoverable, including capabilities > etc. The protocol and classes are used in things like a networked PIR > (Passive Infrared detector, or motion detector). The idea is that you > plug it into the network, it is automatically discoverable, you setup > an alarm program which can go off when triggered by an event (or loss > of signal). You may have a number of alarm devices around a network > and a number of PIRs and maybe 1 or more controlling points. The PIR > can trigger an event to each of the alarms and controlling program. > Pulling down one keeps it active etc. > > Anyway, the principle really is: > > * Automatic discovery over TCP/IP > * Methods and Events discoverable > * Small and fairly simple (both in implementation and protocol) > > Unfortunately JINI is highly Java only. It actually sends byte code to > and from devices by treating it as a J2EE distributed system. > > For my own use, I have a simple protocol which does a UDP broadcast to > discover other devices. Devices return a type and capabilities, but > only specifically for my application (eg: I am a light; I have been on > for 37 minutes; you can send me off, on, swap, timed). > > The problem is that I want and need to write this code in Perl and > JINI won't allow that (wrappers are ok, but you have a lot of baggage > and it is hard to get good cooperation). > > So my question is: Is there any open, non platform specific, non > language specific, protocols out in the real world which attempt to > solve some or all of this problem. If so then I would prefer to write > my perl modules around that infrastructure than invent my own crappy > protocol. > > So... anyone here of anything like that ? > > Scott > - -- Scott Penrose > Open source developer > http://linux.dd.com.au/ > scottp@dd.com.au > > Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). > > Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. > See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN > PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE/hc8TDCFCcmAm26YRArfIAJ9vyTVUqiefxHvidDyaA5wwA6W4GQCeIcpb > NXQI4Ncbp/3s8sd8rxFQ0j4= > =x7Sb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > From gustaf at cmetech.com.au Thu Oct 9 18:50:08 2003 From: gustaf at cmetech.com.au (gU5t4F) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031009235007.GA28167@cmetech.com.au> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 07:08:02AM +1000, Scott Penrose wrote: > > Anyway, the principle really is: > > * Automatic discovery over TCP/IP > * Methods and Events discoverable > * Small and fairly simple (both in implementation and protocol) Hmm... i would have suggested a CORBA implementation except for your last requirement there :\ There are open source CORBA implementations (none written in perl to my knowledge, but some perl inteface modules exist) L8rz -- Net Cens0rship = Book Burning in the Digital Age http://www.efa.org.au/ From scottp at myinternet.com.au Thu Oct 9 19:28:21 2003 From: scottp at myinternet.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI In-Reply-To: <20031009235007.GA28167@cmetech.com.au> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, Oct 10, 2003, at 09:50 Australia/Melbourne, gU5t4F wrote: > On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 07:08:02AM +1000, Scott Penrose wrote: > >> >> Anyway, the principle really is: >> >> * Automatic discovery over TCP/IP >> * Methods and Events discoverable >> * Small and fairly simple (both in implementation and protocol) > > Hmm... i would have suggested a CORBA implementation except for > your last requirement there :\ > > There are open source CORBA implementations (none written in perl > to my knowledge, but some perl inteface modules exist) CORBA is so big that even Java doesn't use it :-) and they invented their own. But also CORBA is almost exactly what I don't want to do. JINI does the distributed executing thing, and I want to dumb that down to be more standard. There are always two ways to mainly go with the development of a large scale distributed network of systems (or in my case a small scale distributed set of embedded devices). * Generic distribution (CORBA, other lighter weight versions) * Non code based. When distributing data via DNS people don't distribute code. I am sort of in the same boat. You know there are standards like 'Mass Storage Device' for USB and PCMCIA devices these days - they don't require code or even remote execution, it is just a standard for accessing that data. I am looking for a similar concept. JINI also has the advantage of being really small for embedded devices. I have been reading up on the zeroconf stuff (http://www.zeroconf.org/) and it looks pretty good. The IP side of things is then nicely handled, moving of networked devices etc. Plus there is already open source daemons existing for linux :-) But I am not yet sure of its 'weight' :-) There is no perl code for it but the nice thing about the implementation is you just talk to the local daemon to handle your settings etc. Of course this answer is like 'XML' solves everything. Now that I have adhoc network and detection of services, what is my service ? Is there registration for that service ? Is it just unix port numbers - which isn't that bad but... Scott - -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/hf0oDCFCcmAm26YRAi0lAJ9hDOAs9yjRRsNNMZWWQRhn6lnJLACfWG1N nX3I4CAut+mF0DSVCRekfqI= =Xc9Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jiri at baum.com.au Thu Oct 9 19:47:19 2003 From: jiri at baum.com.au (Jiri Baum) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI In-Reply-To: <20031009235007.GA28167@cmetech.com.au> References: <20031009235007.GA28167@cmetech.com.au> Message-ID: <20031010004719.GB8578@baum.com.au> Scott Penrose: > > Anyway, the principle really is: > > * Automatic discovery over TCP/IP > > * Methods and Events discoverable > > * Small and fairly simple (both in implementation and protocol) gU5t4F: > Hmm... i would have suggested a CORBA implementation except for your > last requirement there :\ And the first one - or did CORBA get a discovery mechanism since I last looked? Last I heard, CORBA needed some external (non-CORBA, non-standard) bootstrap for its discovery, which was highly implementation dependent and therefore not interoperable. Most textbook examples seemed to skip over the problem by asking the user to copy a 2-3 line base-64(?) stream to the other program, taking care to avoid line-break problems, at which point it's not surprising that most people would throw the book across the room and use something else (ie whatever mechanism they would've had to use to do the bootstrap). Jiri -- Jiri Baum http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jirib MAT LinuxPLC project --- http://mat.sf.net --- Machine Automation Tools From joshua at roughtrade.net Thu Oct 9 19:52:25 2003 From: joshua at roughtrade.net (Joshua Goodall) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI In-Reply-To: References: <20031009235007.GA28167@cmetech.com.au> Message-ID: <20031010005225.GJ1085@roughtrade.net> Three alternatives spring to mind i) Spread (http://www.spread.org/) (for which I have FreeBSD and Debian packages: http://www.roughtrade.net/spread/) ii) Tib/Rendezvous ($$$ !) (http://www.tibco.com/solutions/products/active_enterprise/rv/default.jsp) iii) PerlDSM (distributed shared memory), if you can find it. or I'm sure it would be possible to run up a JINI/JavaSpaces adapter with a customer protocol for other languages. Personally I'd use spread since it's built on an academic foundation but has a production-grade implementation, and provides some great ordering and reliability guarantees for distributed protocols. There's also an OO perl binding ;) also as a sidenote: Java J2EE does specify CORBA IIOP and RMI/IDL support. Too many sites demanded it to be left out. http://java.sun.com/j2ee/corba/ J -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031010/0e997a71/attachment.bin From scottp at myinternet.com.au Thu Oct 9 20:18:46 2003 From: scottp at myinternet.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI In-Reply-To: <20031010005225.GJ1085@roughtrade.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, Oct 10, 2003, at 10:52 Australia/Melbourne, Joshua Goodall wrote: > Three alternatives spring to mind > > i) Spread (http://www.spread.org/) > (for which I have FreeBSD and Debian packages: > http://www.roughtrade.net/spread/) I had forgotten spread - thanks. This is particular good for high speed and very remote apps. Unfortunately it is not really good on the automatic discovery. Like many other alternatives (even Jabber) - it is only the transport layer and has not defined the way of detecting features. One of the key features of JINI is the detection of a devices purpose, features, methods and events. > ii) Tib/Rendezvous ($$$ !) > > (http://www.tibco.com/solutions/products/active_enterprise/rv/ > default.jsp Rendezvous is zeroconfig (or an implementation of it). Howl is one of the open source alternatives to Rendezvous - 100% compatible. So good news for me who doesn't want to spend $$$ ! :-) > iii) PerlDSM (distributed shared memory), if you can find it. Again, interesting but not solving any of the actual requirements, which I probably have not made very clear. Remote procedure calls or sharing memory is not really a viable way of adding an adhoc network of devices together. Unfortunately the main reason to rule out spread and PerlDSM is performance and functionality. They are too large and power / processor / memory hungry for small embedded devices. I don't want anything more complicated than an HTTP 1.0 protocol. There are literally 100s of applications and protocols in the space of communicating across a network. None of them unfortunately actually solve any of the problems that JINI is solving. The standard advertising and interaction of services in an adhoc network without single points of dependence or failure (some of the failure parts have to be handled by other things, such as networking gear etc). Like HTML where you can invent a new tag - JINI allows you to invent a new device and stick it into the mix. Like SNMP which provides a standard set of functions you don't need to define (hello are you there, who are you) - JINI has standard ways of knowing the type of device and its methods / capabilities. So what I am not trying to solve: * Remote procedure calls * Caching * Shared memory * Inter Process Communications What I am trying to solve: * Automatic detection of devices - seems zeroconf is the go here - This is only the network layer though, no application - Effectively you now have an IP number and named devices from which to communicate. - zeroconf then tends to use standard ports (80 for web) to find the device services, - eg: Print Daemon, Chat client, Web server * Automatic detection of capabilities or services - This is hard to define. In JINI it is simply a Class and Methods - The class of type X is a Light and you just use the on method - This is sort of like solving the RPC Portmap problem - The only real solution is to start up an open registry of device names and types. - Automatic registration (like CORBA) of Class and Methods is cool, but your application still has to support it. * Very small - I want to be able to write (like you can with HTTP), 50 lines of code and get a basic working version. - This means you can write a tiny tiny device on a PIC that will still work. - The nice bit of using zeroconf here might be that the zeroconf part is actually optional. eg: a little PIC could have a hard coded address * Totally platform and product independent. * Implementation independent. (eg: not depending on perl, or spread, or howl etc) Scott - -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/hgj5DCFCcmAm26YRApevAJ97ihJgAPRXZ3budmF1JxAwgsgBuACdH+AU hsaNNET47oDzCsE5ITYDpfY= =6x/r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottp at dd.com.au Thu Oct 9 20:35:39 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI => JXTA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0DA6EFD6-FAC2-11D7-8588-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 JXTA - www.jxta.org - is shaping up to be a good candidate. Scott -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/hgzuDCFCcmAm26YRAmpQAJ43JfG4H09nXq/Z4VnaD3YvCIKY8ACfU6eb VvsaT0AdOsOGPsNYnXsnEaM= =fXFV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From 239828 at excite.com Fri Oct 10 10:13:34 2003 From: 239828 at excite.com (239828@excite.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Sick of deleting spam email !? Spam Remedy kills all spam automatically! 239828 Message-ID: <200310100159.h9A1x7m18925@mail.pm.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031010/37dbbd0e/attachment.htm From wayland at smartchat.net.au Fri Oct 10 05:31:16 2003 From: wayland at smartchat.net.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: spams In-Reply-To: <87348C19-F78E-11D7-8B11-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Scott Penrose wrote: > Unfortunately that is not the problem. I personally already run > SpamAssassin and know how to do it. > > The problem is that we do not run the pm.org server. That is run by a > guy in the US. > > So what I am looking at - is how do we run SpamAssassin through the US > server ? > > We need internal knowledge of pm.org setup, which at this stage I can't > get. Sendmail 8.11.6, which doesn't narrow it down a lot, unfortunately. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland@smartchat.net.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.12 GCS d+ s:- a- C++>++++$ U++ P++ L++ E- W+++ N+ w>--- V- Y+>++ PGP->++ R !tv b++ DI++++ D+ G e++>++++ h! y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From 239826 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 10 07:49:00 2003 From: 239826 at hotmail.com (239826@hotmail.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Free weight loss drug prescriptions online 239826 Message-ID: <200310101145.h9ABjhi25509@mail.pm.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031010/7736f9af/attachment.htm From david_dick at iprimus.com.au Fri Oct 10 17:13:21 2003 From: david_dick at iprimus.com.au (David Dick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Perl JINI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F872F01.7090106@iprimus.com.au> ok, i've had a lot of fun thinking about this one. :) Conclusions: Advertising methods for machine -> machine communication is imho hard enuff that it defeats the goal of small and easy. Advertising methods for machine -> human is much easier and probably what you have in mind? My part of the elephant involves a gui that presents a list of method/parameter values as a human readable description. eg: Main Light [ On | Off ] -> http://home/lights.cgi?Light=Main&Value=x Maximum Apache Processes [ 50 | 20 | 10 | Off ] -> https://dsfddfs Current CD to Play [ xxxx | yyyy | zzzz ] -> jabber://sdssfsdf Therefore, to my way of thinking, the protocol would be hopefully text based :), would need methods to come as a pair (the command string and the human readable form) could have a separate protocol for calling methods. may need auth, caching as add ons.. So. 1) Gui fires up. Listens for broadcasts from servers (probable zeroconf would be fine here) 2) Gets a response that indicates a server knows how to advertise methods. 3) Requests and receives a list of (command/parameters, description) (that may come with a cache time before you need to request again) 4) Presents that list to a user. 5) When the user selects a method/parameter command, the gui issues the related command to the service. Uru -Dave > > What I am trying to solve: > > * Automatic detection of devices > - seems zeroconf is the go here > - This is only the network layer though, no application > - Effectively you now have an IP number and named > devices from which to communicate. > - zeroconf then tends to use standard ports (80 for web) to > find the device services, - eg: Print Daemon, Chat client, > Web server > > * Automatic detection of capabilities or services > - This is hard to define. In JINI it is simply a Class and > Methods > - The class of type X is a Light and you just use the on method > - This is sort of like solving the RPC Portmap problem > - The only real solution is to start up an open registry > of device names and types. > - Automatic registration (like CORBA) of Class and Methods is > cool, but your application still has to support it. > > * Very small > - I want to be able to write (like you can with HTTP), 50 lines > of code and get a basic working version. > - This means you can write a tiny tiny device on a PIC that > will still work. > - The nice bit of using zeroconf here might be that the > zeroconf part is actually optional. > eg: a little PIC could have a hard coded address > > * Totally platform and product independent. > > * Implementation independent. (eg: not depending > on perl, or spread, or howl etc) > From rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au Fri Oct 10 18:55:56 2003 From: rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au (rickmeasham@optusnet.com.au) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: spams Message-ID: <200310102355.h9ANtwO21691@mail021.syd.optusnet.com.au> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Scott Penrose wrote: > So what I am looking at - is how do we run SpamAssassin through the > US server ? Other lists I'm on require moderation on posts not submitted by list members. That basically stops spams getting through to anyone but ... you! From rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au Sat Oct 11 05:51:31 2003 From: rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au (rickmeasham@optusnet.com.au) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: [YaCMaS] Bug Report Message-ID: <200310111051.h9BApVn22575@mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au> As I don't have an address for YaCMaS bug reporting, I'll report here. The first two iissues concern the titles for articles: 1. Titles containing underscores are not allowed. Can't call a page "mod_perl". There should be no reason for this unless the underscore is some sort of field delimiter somewhere. 2. Titles containing double quotes get cut off at the first double quote. This is because entities are not encoded when editing. Thus a title q|This is a "quoted" title| gets sent to the text input with quotes rather than "e;s. Which means it looks like: . You can see the problem. Thirdly, the 404 redirection is not working on the melbourne.pm site. If I put 'library' as the shortcut for the library I get the old library. If I put 'newlibrary' I get a 404 error. I figure this is an .htaccess option that isn't set by the installer. And, a feature request: Can we possibly change the code so that every page is returned in the content editing, but use javascript to hide the hidden rows? This would mean we don't have to reload every time a section is cascased. I'd also like to be able to control-click or shift-click on a particular toggle and have it recursively expand or deflate the section. I'd love to provide patches but I still can't download YaCMaS from the server ... Cheers! Rick Measham From rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au Sat Oct 11 06:18:09 2003 From: rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au (rickmeasham@optusnet.com.au) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: [YaCMaS] Bug Report 2 Message-ID: <200310111118.h9BBIAn26918@mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au> Found another curly. When I log out, my URL is http://melbourne.pm.org/admin/index.cgi?action=logout If I then attempt to login, I automatically log out! Seems that if I request page X, I get asked to log in. Once I log in, I get redirected to page X. Now when I log out, I'm actually requesting http://melbourne.pm.org/admin/index.cgi?action=logout. So as soon as I log in I get redirected there! I couldn't log back in until I got rid of the whole logout thing in the url. From rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au Sat Oct 11 07:19:26 2003 From: rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au (rickmeasham@optusnet.com.au) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: [YaCMaS] Bug Report 3 Message-ID: <200310111219.h9BCJRn05405@mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au> Last one for the night, promise! Sort order is currently ASCII rather than dictionary. Can we get a schwartzian transform in there to sort pages in dictionary order? Too many fields are unnecesarily fussy about their content. Can we either: let most through, or set a content filter on text fields to stop illegal characters being typed. (I have the script for this .. just ask) Worst so far is setting a contact person. I can't set "Mr. John Smith" because periods aren't allowed. From rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au Sat Oct 11 07:26:19 2003 From: rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au (rickmeasham@optusnet.com.au) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Website Updated Message-ID: <200310111226.h9BCQJn06499@mail020.syd.optusnet.com.au> As you can probably guess I've been busy updating the website today. I've moved a pile of content from the old site to the new one and added new content such as the full library. Take a look at the Melbourne Perl Shops directory: is your company there? Are the details correct? What happened at the meetings? Anyone want to write up some missing meetings? I have July from the old site, then I have September and October, but no August. Other site developers: I've created a node at http://melbourne.pm.org/admin/content.cgi?action=edit&contentID=44 that is not for publishing. It's basically a wiki for developers. Any non-developers who want to read it can go to http://melbourne.pm.org/index.cgi?tid=44 to read up on the goings on of your local web developers. Cheers! Rick Measham From 239856 at earthlink.net Sat Oct 11 20:58:31 2003 From: 239856 at earthlink.net (239856@earthlink.net) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Experience Rock Hard Erections 239856 Message-ID: <200310111243.h9BChfw06775@mail.pm.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031011/cfd458ba/attachment.htm From rick at isite.net.au Sat Oct 11 08:49:47 2003 From: rick at isite.net.au (Rick Measham) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: [YAPC::AU] Some links Message-ID: <1065880179.15372.948.camel@redhat.isite.net.au> Here's a list of venue requirements for YAPC: http://www.yapc.org/venue-reqs.txt Any of the Universities would do .. especially those north of the city such as LaTrobe or RMIT Bundoora which are nearer the airport. And there's some good descriptions of the kind of talks on this page: http://www.yapc.org/America/cfp.shtml The YAPC::America::North homepage gives a good description of what YAPC actually is: http://www.yapc.org/America/ From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Oct 12 17:43:16 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: RICK ROCKS ! Message-ID: <77FBBB45-FD05-11D7-A264-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey Rick and Melbourne PM. I just want to say a huge big thank you to Rick who has done a huge job on updating our web site. WOOOOW WOOOW WOOOW. Thanks mate. Scott - -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/idkHDCFCcmAm26YRAqfMAJ9a8RvqlqWQFwz3wPfPUjdmHQE8NQCbB3ke 06KZpxyNDBaStavp+xJBIvE= =mdpn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Oct 12 17:52:58 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: [melbourne.pm.org update] tid 3 - Copyright Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Updated formatting and removed "what is it" which is in misc articles. Scott - -- Scott Penrose VP in charge of Pancakes http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: If you receive this email in error - please eat it immediately to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/idtNDCFCcmAm26YRAm5KAJ4zogiI8lgfe7q6XsXc8yp7LUkYNgCeJrcU y806w6mbn5O8sVX45TfXVHM= =RqWB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From 239884 at delphi.com Mon Oct 13 07:12:46 2003 From: 239884 at delphi.com (239884@delphi.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject:  No Prior Prescription Required - Lowest Prices Possible 239884 Message-ID: <200310122257.h9CMvYI26284@mail.pm.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031013/799622cc/attachment.htm From scottp at dd.com.au Sun Oct 12 18:22:56 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: [melbourne.pm.org update] moved all old content to /archive Message-ID: <02B052BE-FD0B-11D7-A264-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As above Scott - -- Scott Penrose Anthropomorphic Personification Expert http://search.cpan.org/search?author=SCOTT scott@cpan.org Dismaimer: While every attempt has been made to make sure that this email only contains zeros and ones, there has been no effort made to guarantee the quantity or the order. Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Darwin) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/ieJTDCFCcmAm26YRAsiuAJ0WQexYN61tPCEgifcXlcBffsJ6zACdEzQf TLqcljfebRehdDnHi3wI7uA= =obIh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tonirojas at juramentum.credithope.com Mon Oct 13 05:36:58 2003 From: tonirojas at juramentum.credithope.com (Josef Huggins) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Credit card charges Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20031013/e1cd420a/attachment.htm From bjdean at unimelb.edu.au Mon Oct 13 04:35:07 2003 From: bjdean at unimelb.edu.au (Bradley Dean) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:03:05 2004 Subject: Books list on the site... Message-ID: <20031013193507.X26073@unimelb.edu.au> Greetings folks, noticed the books list is up on the site in the development area as an 'ascii table'. Due to the way the editing text-area works, and the way the page is then displayed I'd be inclinded to change this either to an actual table or possibly a 
'd hash which could be more usable in text form...

Anyone mind if I make the change?

Cheerio,

 Brad

-- 
Melbourne University ITSAD SDI - Campus Wide Info Systems Group (CWIS)
Email: bjdean@unimelb.edu.au Phone: +61-3-83443997 Mobile: +61-413014395

Australian Intervarsity Choral Societies Association - Secretary
Email: secretary@aicsa.org.au   Web: http://www.aicsa.org.au

From rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au  Mon Oct 13 06:58:04 2003
From: rickmeasham at optusnet.com.au (rickmeasham@optusnet.com.au)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Books list on the site...
Message-ID: <200310131158.h9DBw5j07967@mail005.syd.optusnet.com.au>





> Bradley Dean  wrote:
> 
> Greetings folks,
> 
> noticed the books list is up on the site in
the development area as
> an
> 'ascii table'.

G'day Brad,
The books have already been formatted along
with cover shots and descriptions. They're in
the 'Library' section. The problem is that I
can't work out any way to delete a page from
the system!

Cheers!
Rick

From scottp at dd.com.au  Tue Oct 14 20:19:16 2003
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Rendezvous / OpenJMS
In-Reply-To: <20031014225539.GY30281@mojain.com>
Message-ID: <981835EA-FEAD-11D7-A264-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> You guys are confused... Tibco Rendezvous (as referenced in the above
> URL) is nothing to do with Apple's Rendezvous. Tibco Rendezvous is a
> messaging platform (sort of like JMS).

Woops, thats my fault. I saw the word and made an ass out of me an 
umtion.

Thanks for pointing that out, otherwise I would have ruled it out :-)

> It is probably way off the original point, but there *are* Free
> alternatives to Tibco Rendezvous, viz a viz open source
> implementations of JMS, e.g. OpenJMS[1]. Even Tibco seem to be moving
> away from their (proprietary) Rendezvous transport to a more open JMS
> transport.
>
> We now return you to your regular programming... ;-)
>
> 1. http://openjms.sf.net/

Thanks

For those others that have been in the loop - I am still investigating 
the many wonderful suggestions I have had. So far I have not really 
found anything that offers the light weight equivalent of JINI or I 
have found things that may be one day ready for such. Some stuff out 
there looks absolutely perfect, until you realise they are using a HUGE 
XML Schema, and I don't want to write an XML Parser on a PIC :-)

Scott
- -- 
Scott Penrose
Open source developer
http://linux.dd.com.au/
scottp@dd.com.au

Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle).

Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
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From scottp at dd.com.au  Wed Oct 15 20:45:42 2003
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Template::Plugin::PerlTidy and POD
Message-ID: <73986D06-FF7A-11D7-A264-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey Dudes,

I discovered today that there is a PerlTidy module for Template 
Toolkit, which allows you to just paste in Perl Code between a filter, 
and it will output the HTML formatted with colour syntax highlighting 
etc.

POD does something similar.

If we can put in that the Text option of YaCMaS goes through Template 
Toolkit (obviously optional as it provides lots more power than plain 
text) we will have solved our Perl and POD upload problems.

Cool hey.

Scooter
- -- 
Scott Penrose
Welcome to the Digital Dimension
http://www.dd.com.au/
scottp@dd.com.au

Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change 
randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said 
randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of 
eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about 
butterflies either.

Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html 
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=SHmM
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From rickm at printaform.com.au  Wed Oct 15 21:02:31 2003
From: rickm at printaform.com.au (Rick Measham)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Template::Plugin::PerlTidy and POD
In-Reply-To: <73986D06-FF7A-11D7-A264-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au>
References: <73986D06-FF7A-11D7-A264-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au>
Message-ID: 

At 11:45 +1000 2003-10-16, Scott Penrose wrote:
>Cool hey.

Very cool .. can we get a copy of YaCMaS from anywhere?

Cheers!
Rick


From scottp at dd.com.au  Wed Oct 15 22:04:30 2003
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Template::Plugin::PerlTidy and POD
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <75F7F2A3-FF85-11D7-A264-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Rodd ? Can we ?

If not, I can give you SSH access to the melbourne perl mongers server, 
but it is the live copy, so not so good for hacking.

One of my things on my list to do is setup a CVS repository on the Perl 
Mongers server so that we can check in Rodd's copy as a Vender branch, 
to allow us to easily do diffs for patches etc to return to Rodd.

Scooter

On Thursday, Oct 16, 2003, at 12:02 Australia/Melbourne, Rick Measham 
wrote:

> At 11:45 +1000 2003-10-16, Scott Penrose wrote:
>> Cool hey.
>
> Very cool .. can we get a copy of YaCMaS from anywhere?
>
> Cheers!
> Rick
>
>
>
>
- -- 
Scott Penrose
Open source developer
http://linux.dd.com.au/
scottp@dd.com.au

Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle).

Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
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From Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu  Thu Oct 16 03:08:27 2003
From: Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu (Nathan Bailey)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Bugzilla usage in Melbourne?
Message-ID: <200310160808.h9G88SCv262712@goaway.its.monash.edu.au>

[ Given the large crosspost, please reply to me directly and I can provide a
  summary if people are interested :-) ]

Is there anyone in Melbourne who is making significant usage of bugzilla
for their internal bug tracking?

Alternatively, anyone heavily involved in a bugzilla-based project?

I'm looking for someone to talk us through the highs and lows of Bugzilla
as a bug management system (I will pay for your time).

thanks!
Nathan
-- 
Nathan Bailey                        * Email: Nathan.Bailey@its.monash.edu
Manager, Flexible Learning and Teaching Program, Application Services,
Information Technology Services      * Phone: +61 3 990 54741
Monash University 3800     Australia * Fax: +61 3 990 53024

From mathew at optusnet.com.au  Thu Oct 16 17:40:29 2003
From: mathew at optusnet.com.au (Mathew Robertson)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Bugzilla usage in Melbourne?
In-Reply-To: <200310160808.h9G88SCv262712@goaway.its.monash.edu.au>
References: <200310160808.h9G88SCv262712@goaway.its.monash.edu.au>
Message-ID: <200310171007.h9HA7B822072@mail015.syd.optusnet.com.au>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:08, Nathan Bailey wrote:
> [ Given the large crosspost, please reply to me directly and I can provide
> a summary if people are interested :-) ]
>
> Is there anyone in Melbourne who is making significant usage of bugzilla
> for their internal bug tracking?
>
> Alternatively, anyone heavily involved in a bugzilla-based project?
>
> I'm looking for someone to talk us through the highs and lows of Bugzilla
> as a bug management system (I will pay for your time).

Bugzilla is quite powerful and highly customisable.  The only problem is that 
the screens available as part of the default install, can be confusing.

Most projects which use bugzilla, re-write the GUI to be more suited for 
their project/company.

Mathew


From iriofb at netscape.net  Sat Oct 18 07:04:36 2003
From: iriofb at netscape.net (Nell Bingham)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: How The Government Can Guarantee Your Investment  gasv  
Message-ID: <60$6w-da1m$g--6v3$-tnbz58@w0hep>

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sat Oct 18 12:32:18 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Laudda)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: melbourne-pm,
Message-ID: <200310181733.h9IH3HDG006952@mx.gdgov.com>

Dear Sir,
 
My names is Didi NKUMA the elder son of Mr.MICHAEL NKUMA of zimbabwe. 
It might be a surprise to you where I got your contact address,i got it 
from the net. During the current crises against the farmers of Zimbabwe 
by the supporters of our President Robert Mugabe to claim all the white 
owned farms in our country, he ordered all the white farmers to surrender 
their farms to his party members and their followers.

My father was one of the best farmers in the country and knowing that 
he did not support the president’s political ideology, the president’s 
supporters invaded my father’s farm burnt down everything, shot him and 
as a result of the wounds sustined, he became sick and died after two 
days.And after his death, My mother and I with two of my younger sisters decided to 
move out of Zimbabwe for the safety of our lives to South-Africa.

Before he died, he wrote his "WILL", which reads "(MY BELOVEED SON ,I 
WISH TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SUM OF $12.7 MILLION U.S DOLLARS 
WHICH I DEPOSITED IN A BOX WITH A SECURITY COMPANY IN JOHANNESBURG 
(SOUTH-AFRICA). IN CASE OF MY ABSENCE ON EARTH CAUSED BY DEATH ONLY".
you should solicit for reliable foreign partner to asist you to transfer this money out of SOUTH-AFRICA 
for investment purpose. I deposited the money in your name and it can be claimed by you 
alone with the deposit code. your mother has all the documents.Take good care of your mother and two sisters."

>From the above, you will understand that the lives and future of my 
family depends on this money as much, I will be very grateful if you 
can assits us.We are now living in South-Africa as POLITICAL ASYLUM SEEKERS 
and the financial law of  SOUTH-AFRICA does not allow ASYLUM SEEKERS 
certain financial rights to such huge amount of money .In view of this, I 
cannot invest this money in South-Africa, hence I am asking you to 
assist me transfer this money out of South-Africa for investment pusposes. For 
your efforts, I am prepared to offer you 25% of the total fund, while 
5% will be set aside for local and international expenses and 60% will be 
kept for my family and I.(ME). To fufil my father's will, we donate 10%  to charity.

Finally modalities on how the transfer will be done will be conveyed to 
you once we establish trust and confidence between ourselves. Looking 
forward to your urgent reply from you

NOTE:  Please reply to my confidential e-mail address only: didi_nkuma@email.com 


Regards
Didi NKUMA.




From auujv at ms2.hinet.net  Mon Oct 20 05:01:21 2003
From: auujv at ms2.hinet.net (auujv@ms2.hinet.net)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: mknmwjfhvd  ½Ö»¡±a¤p«Ä´N¨S¾÷·|ÁÈ¿ú  rdgoyfviec
Message-ID: <200310201001.SAA06927@msr64.hinet.net>

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From tubo22tubo at yahoo.com.br  Mon Oct 20 09:36:58 2003
From: tubo22tubo at yahoo.com.br (tubo22tubo)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: A Solução Natural para o Aumento de Tamanho e Potência do Pênis
Message-ID: <20031020183544.76E7D48740@mail1.panix.com>

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From j534cyy at yahoogroups.com  Thu Oct 23 08:21:16 2003
From: j534cyy at yahoogroups.com (Ryan Mccullough)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Get Away From The Market Fluctuations tvxvdeabtu  l
Message-ID: <3j$g-7cs7r0y@mcpzn8r>

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From ccedeno at speedsurf.pacific.net.ph  Thu Oct 23 15:29:46 2003
From: ccedeno at speedsurf.pacific.net.ph (Charles)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Genuine Profitable Opportunity!
Message-ID: <200310232028.h9NKS5Y13858@mail.pm.org>

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charlesjlc@indiatimes.com

From djewio at msff.net  Thu Oct 23 12:58:12 2003
From: djewio at msff.net (=?Big5?B?qvyl+g==?=)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: =?Big5?B?r3WquqvcsWo=?=
Message-ID: <200310232212.h9NMCjY15584@mail.pm.org>

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From dewi at ms33.net  Fri Oct 24 01:21:45 2003
From: dewi at ms33.net (=?Big5?B?vuWnsA==?=)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: =?Big5?B?pkG9VLt7pECmuA==?=
Message-ID: <20031024142334.16FF5488AB@mail1.panix.com>

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From LstingSites at 2911.net  Sat Oct 25 13:09:34 2003
From: LstingSites at 2911.net (Director)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Marketing Details
Message-ID: <200310251822.h9PIMdG32732@mail.pm.org>


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From pfsxmb3et at concentric.net  Tue Oct 28 13:49:49 2003
From: pfsxmb3et at concentric.net (Riley Bishop)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: U.S. Government provides risk free investments... c
Message-ID: <9b5o6ze01-i-32@2jcbljd.6n.ff>

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From scottp at dd.com.au  Tue Oct 28 16:18:48 2003
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Advantech Machines
Message-ID: 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Those of you at the meeting last night would have seen the little  
machines that I have picked up.
I am planning on picking up a few more and wondered if anyone is  
interested in some. That way I can save on postage etc.

OK Some details

	http://www.e3.com.au/ 
modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=307

233 MHz Cyrix, 32MB SO DIMM, 5GB Laptop IDE disk drive, 2 serial,  
parallel, 2 USB (1.1), PS/2, VGA, Audio (internal), IRDA (need cable  
etc), case, power supply, about 5 watts power, and all in the size of  
about a CD Rom Drive.

	$150

The bad news is that they can be expensive to deliver. I am planning to  
get the delivered via post (slower) but still with insurance etc. So I  
think I will ask for $170 from people, but will return cash if it ends  
up costing less.

I have a fully running Linux Debian Testing on my set working perfectly  
with all the available hardware (actually I have not tested the IRDA).  
I have Perl 5.8 with all the modules, apache server and more all that I  
could need and I am not even using 500 MB yet of a 5GB driver - very  
good as a remote logging machine considering both the size of the  
drive, and the fact that it has USB for retrieving information etc, and  
the low power consumption.

Internally they also have LCD controllers and a PC 104 connector. There  
is also a programmable rom (including a downloadable network boot rom  
from Advantec) and what I think is floppy on chip slot. Theoretically  
the web site also mentions Compact Flash but there must be a few  
revisions as I can't find that on the bottom or even a solder point for  
them.

If you are interested contact me directly (not the lists).

Ta

Scott
- -- 
Scott Penrose
Open source developer
http://linux.dd.com.au/
scottp@dd.com.au

Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle).

Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html 
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From scottp at dd.com.au  Tue Oct 28 17:37:49 2003
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:05 2004
Subject: Advantech specs
Message-ID: 

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http://www.advantech.com/products/Model_Detail.asp?model_id=1-D6LZC&bu=

Scott
- -- 
Scott Penrose
VP in charge of Pancakes
http://linux.dd.com.au/
scottp@dd.com.au

Dismaimer: If you receive this email in error - please eat it 
immediately to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands.

Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html 
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From 240214 at msn.com  Thu Oct 30 05:21:34 2003
From: 240214 at msn.com (240214@msn.com)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:06 2004
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <200310300322.h9U3MIR09826@mail.pm.org>

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From scottp at dd.com.au  Fri Oct 31 18:32:26 2003
From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose)
Date: Wed Aug  4 00:03:06 2004
Subject: Advantech order list
Message-ID: 

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Hey Dudes,

I have now emailed to everyone whom has asked the list of orders I will 
be making for the Advantech machines.
If any of you have NOT been emailed yet then I must have missed your 
mail to me please contact me ASAP.

Scott
- -- 
Scott Penrose
Welcome to the Digital Dimension
http://www.dd.com.au/
scottp@dd.com.au

Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change 
randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said 
randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of 
eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about 
butterflies either.

Please do not send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html 
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