Scott Penrose scottp at
Wed Nov 12 21:24:16 CST 2003

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On Wednesday, Nov 12, 2003, at 22:06 Australia/Melbourne, Paul Fenwick 

> G'day everyone,
> 	Just wanted to dump a few YAPC thoughts to the list,
> especially regarding Scotty's question of PTA being 'the company'
> for YAPC[1].
> 	I wouldn't want PTA to 'run' YAPC, because I believe it
> would be too messy.  It makes it harder to separate the accounting for

Neither would I - that was not my question :-)

> PTA and YAPC.  It brings up a number of problems with community
> versus commercial interests.  There's also a big fat question of
> liability.  In short, as a director, I'm personally liable if
> things go bad.  That makes me feel uneasy, even with public
> liability insurance.

It is a shame you either didn't hang round or wait on this one - the 
idea was only for bank accounts, which doesn't make you liable etc, but 
the whole idea was dismissed immediately after it was suggested.

> 		I would propose that YAPC would be better served by starting
> and Incorporated, not-for-profit or similar entity, and that be the
> vehicle to actually run the conference.  This is more legwork, but
> it's *much* cleaner in the long run.

Actually we already have a better idea that is in train.

> 	Having said all that, I'm very happy for PTA to help out
> (in principle) with a number of things.  I am happy for PTA to
> assist and/or handle bookings and collection of money.  I'm happy

Which was all I was asking about :-)

> for PTA to run tutorials as part of the conference to help fund
> proceedings.  I'm sure there are other things I'm happy with
> that I haven't thought of yet.
> 	One thing to remember is that PTA is a commercial entity,
> so there will be an expectation for 'return on investment', or
> at least to break even on real and opportunity costs.  That

Hmm... This is probably then of no interest to a YAPC event.

YAPC is not for profit so what it will be looking for is sponsorship 
and free talks.

Tutorials may be paid for but no where near the money you normally 
would look for. The only conference where you would would expect to 
actually get reasonable pay would be the O'Reilly Perl Conference - and 
even then it is really only covering costs of the conference, 
accommodations and flights.

Once we are settled with numbers and money I will come back to you for 
ideas for talks and sponsorship.

One thing to note - My expectation for PTA involvement would be one of 
either/both free or actually giving some money to YAPC event, but 
remember that the return on investment will be the fact that you get 
lots of free advertising and be well known with the people that come to 
the event.

> return on investment may not be monetary -- being known and admired
> by thousands of Perl programmers and computer professionals definitely
> has value.  PTA staff members may also choose to also volunteer their
> own personal time to help YAPC.
> 	Having said all that, I'm likely to be very quiet for about
> a month due to an incredibly busy end-of-year timetable.

No problem. It will probably take us that long to organise location and 
date - once those two items are done we will be in full swing to 
organise all the funding, sponsorship etc and most importantly - 


> 	All the very best,
> 		Paul
> [1] Currently PTA is not technically a company, but that should
>     change soon.
> -- 
> Paul Fenwick <pjf at> |
> Director of Training                   | Ph:  +61 3 9354 6001
> Perl Training Australia                | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681
- -- 
Scott Penrose
Anthropomorphic Personification Expert
scott at

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