From Joe.M at yahoo.pl Mon Mar 3 15:41:47 2003 From: Joe.M at yahoo.pl (US Telecenter) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Crystal Clear Conference Calling 22611 Message-ID: <00004ae650b3$000011cb$00002e66@nomail.yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20030303/d08452ae/attachment.htm From stas at stason.org Mon Mar 3 18:09:03 2003 From: stas at stason.org (Stas Bekman) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: modperl 2.0 tutorial handouts References: <3E39CB48.1070108@stason.org> Message-ID: <3E63EE9F.3060905@stason.org> Hi, If you are planning to attend my mod_perl 2.0 tutorial next week, you may want to read the handouts beforehand. You can download them from: http://stason.org/talks/apachecon2002/tutorial/mod_perl-2.0-tutorial-handouts.pdf.gz If you haven't messed with mod_perl before, you may want to read mod_perl 1.0 papers as well: http://stason.org/talks/perlcon2001/starting-handouts.pdf.gz http://stason.org/talks/apachecon2001/performance/apachecon2001-2-handouts.pdf.gz Scott, chances are that my notebook will be still in limbo by the next week. So can you please download the slides and check whether they load on the box in the presentation room: http://stason.org/talks/apachecon2002/tutorial/mod_perl-2.0-tutorial-slides.pdf.gz It'd be the best to have acroread installed if possible. Thank you. __________________________________________________________________ Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com From david_dick at iprimus.com.au Tue Mar 4 00:47:16 2003 From: david_dick at iprimus.com.au (David Dick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Eagle Books on sale at Collins Technical Bookstore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E644BF4.1010201@iprimus.com.au> G'day all, Two copies of the Eagle Book are reserved for the Melbourne Perl Mongers at Collins Technical Bookshop for ~$29. Uru -Dave From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Mar 4 03:21:44 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: 3rd Australian IT User Groups Open Day Message-ID: > VTR Consulting would like to invite you to the 3rd Australian IT User > Groups > Open Day. The idea behind the organisation of the Open Day, a > non-commercial > event, is for VTR to facilitate a meeting between IT professionals and > the > numerous User Groups that represent a wide range of specialist IT > skills. > > Saturday, the 29th of March 2003, between 10 am - 4 pm, at VTR's > premises, > at Roseneath Place, South Melbourne, you will have the opportunity to > meet > 20 IT User Groups under one roof! > > The User Groups Day, an IT community event, represents an excellent > opportunity to talk to members about their group's activities and the > numerous benefits associated with membership in an IT user group. > > Find out how non-profit IT User Groups can help you develop your > existing > career or simply put you together with others that share your > interests and > knowledge. > > Groups that will be represented on the day include: > > Australian Computer Society > Australian Delphi Users Group > Australian Developers.NETwork > Australian Java Users Group > Australian Oracle Users Group > Australian Software Metrics Association > Australian Unix Users Group > Australian Zope Users Group > Cold Fusion Users Group > Computer Management Group > Data Management Association > Internet Macintosh Users Group > Linux Users of Victoria > Macromedia Users Victoria > Melbourne Extreme Programming Enthusiasts Group > Melbourne Perl Mongers > Melbourne Sybase Users Group > Project Management Institute > SAP Australian User Group > System Administrators Guild of Australia > > If you would like to attend this FREE event, simply email us at: > openday@vtr.com.au > > For further details on the IT User Groups Day, please visit: > http://www.vtr.com.au/openday.html > > Remember membership guarantees you access to the latest developments > in the > world of IT and will help you keep your skills up-to-date. > > The event is proudly sponsored by: > > Sun Microsystems (Corporate Sponsor) - www.sun.com.au > > ZDNet Australia (Media Sponsor) - www.zdnet.com.au > > JOBNET (Online Sponsor) - www.jobnet.com.au > > > > Regards, > > > Phillip Mikolajewski > Marketing Manager > VTR Consulting P/L > 3rd Australian IT User Groups Open Day - 29 March 2003 > 20 IT User Groups under one roof! > http://www.vtr.com.au/openday.html > Phone: (03) 9690 5010 > phillipm@vtr.com.au > -- Scott Penrose Welcome to the Digital Dimension http://www.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about butterflies either. From wayland at smartchat.net.au Tue Mar 4 16:58:12 2003 From: wayland at smartchat.net.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Looking for a module... In-Reply-To: <00f501c2dc7e$b8be8980$9b03c282@jaqueline> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, David Thomas wrote: > > What do you mean "in different ways". Do you want to end up with RanDoMlY > > capiTalIzED text or Title-cased text or something in between. If you can > > give me an example of what you want to get to, I'm sure I can help you > > find a module that does it, or something similar. > > We are trying to get 'intelligent' title case primarily, enforced at a code > level. > > eg. > the title => The Title > ask for help => Ask for Help > > Thanks for the help :) I don't know of any relevant modules, but I don't see this as a regex thing. Basically, you want to follow the following rules: 1. Capitalise the first letter 2. Capitalise nouns, verbs, etc Unless you intend to do semantic analysis of the text (or find something which does), your best bet is probably to make a list of words not to capitalise (such as "the", "of", "for"...), in %lower, and then, with the title in $_ go: ----------- foreach(split) { push @words, (defined($lower{$_})) ? $_ : ucfirst($_); } $words[0] = ucfirst($words[0]); $_ = join " ", @words; ----------- Unless you can find a useful semantic parsing module, that's probably your best bet. With no regicies. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland@smartchat.net.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.1 GCS d? s: a-- C++>++++$ US+ P++ L++ E- W+++ N+ w+> M-- V- Y+>++ PGP->++ R(+) !tv B++ DI++++ D+ G e>++ h!/* y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From mpm at bachelorguy.com Tue Mar 4 18:09:34 2003 From: mpm at bachelorguy.com (ADFH) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Training courses Message-ID: <20030305110934.6a8e72c5.mpm@bachelorguy.com> What organisations still do Perl training courses in the Melbourne area? My area at work's been asked by our manager to come up with all the training options we'd ever like to do (reasonable + pie in sky) and wants us to come up with ballpark figures. Any ideas? Anthony From tim.hunt at its.monash.edu.au Tue Mar 4 18:33:26 2003 From: tim.hunt at its.monash.edu.au (Tim Hunt) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: httpd conf for multiple vhosts using mod_perl Message-ID: <3E6545D6.6010602@its.monash.edu.au> Morning all; Monash Portal is establishing a sandbox environment for its developers, and wants to run multiple virtual hosts from the same IP address. We hoped this would be trivial (as it is for static sites) but.... We use mod_perl and HTML::Mason for the site. So, the first question is, can we have independent environments for each vhost? (separate doc root, different config files, ...) If the answer is yes, I'll share our httpd.conf and the Mason handler.pl for further discussion. Cheers, Tim Hunt, Portal Developer, Monash University From tim.hunt at its.monash.edu.au Tue Mar 4 18:35:38 2003 From: tim.hunt at its.monash.edu.au (Tim Hunt) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: CVS gurus ? Message-ID: <3E65465A.8090506@its.monash.edu.au> Hi again. I'm looking for a CVS guru to spend an hour or two with a bunch of basic users to explain branching / merging / bext practice. Money might be involved subject to management authorisation :) Cheers, Tim Hunt, Portal Developer, Monash University. From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Mar 4 18:48:53 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Training courses In-Reply-To: <20030305110934.6a8e72c5.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: <3D0CFC3E-4EA4-11D7-94FA-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> On Wednesday, Mar 5, 2003, at 11:09 Australia/Melbourne, ADFH wrote: > What organisations still do Perl training courses in the Melbourne > area? > > My area at work's been asked by our manager to come up with all the > training options we'd ever like to do (reasonable + pie in sky) and > wants us to come up with ballpark figures. > > Any ideas? > > Anthon Paul Fenwick at http://www.perltraining.com.au/ is one of the organisers of Melbourne.pm and runs training courses. Scott > -- Scott Penrose Welcome to the Digital Dimension http://www.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about butterflies either. From crashkat at cmetech.com.au Tue Mar 4 18:48:46 2003 From: crashkat at cmetech.com.au (crashkat) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Training courses In-Reply-To: <20030305110934.6a8e72c5.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: I'm sure Paul would be happy to help you :) perltraining.com.au On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, ADFH wrote: > What organisations still do Perl training courses in the Melbourne area? > > My area at work's been asked by our manager to come up with all the > training options we'd ever like to do (reasonable + pie in sky) and > wants us to come up with ballpark figures. > > Any ideas? > > Anthony > From damian at conway.org Tue Mar 4 18:51:06 2003 From: damian at conway.org (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Training courses In-Reply-To: <20030305110934.6a8e72c5.mpm@bachelorguy.com> References: <20030305110934.6a8e72c5.mpm@bachelorguy.com> Message-ID: <3E6549FA.5090903@conway.org> ADFH wrote: > What organisations still do Perl training courses in the Melbourne area? My company Thoughtstream offers a range of corporate Perl training courses, all taught by me. See: http://damian.conway.org/Courses for our range of courses. As for costs: I'm certainly not cheap (but I'm worth it! ;-) On-site corporate classes in the Melbourne area cost: 1 day: $5,000 + GST 2 days: $9,000 + GST 3 days: $12,000 + GST 4 days: $15,000 + GST 5 days: $18,000 + GST That's for a class of up to 15 attendees (with additional attendees pro rata). Multiple days don't have to be the same course, or even taught consecutively, merely booked and deposit-paid at the same time. If anyone would like more information, you're most welcome to email me. Damian From jh_lists at fastmail.fm Tue Mar 4 18:54:59 2003 From: jh_lists at fastmail.fm (JP Howard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: CVS gurus ? In-Reply-To: <3E65465A.8090506@its.monash.edu.au> References: <3E65465A.8090506@its.monash.edu.au> Message-ID: <20030305005459.C74F34EEF7@server2.fastmail.fm> On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 11:35:38 +1100, "Tim Hunt" said: > Hi again. > > I'm looking for a CVS guru to spend an hour or two with a bunch of basic > users to explain branching / merging / bext practice. Money might be > involved subject to management authorisation :) > I'd suggest getting them to read this chapter: http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/cvsbook.html#An_Overview_of_CVS If they already know the absolute basics, then just the 'Branching' section of that chapter might be enough. The whole chapter takes ~3 hours to get through. You could set up a sample CVS sandbox for people to play with while try the commands for themselves. From mjs at beebo.org Tue Mar 4 21:26:57 2003 From: mjs at beebo.org (Michael Stillwell) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: DTD to module/data structure? Message-ID: <51DF7C94-4EBA-11D7-ADB1-0003930BCEFA@beebo.org> "Relaxer [http://www.relaxer.org/] creates a set of Java classes that form an object hierarchy that is logically equivalent to a DOM tree, but is easier to use programmatically." Is there any equivalent for Perl? Something that can go from, say, ]> to something like my $p = Person->new("record.xml"); $p->first_name("Bob"); $p->last_name("Funk"); $p->profession_push("123"); $p->profession_push("456"); --M. * * * http://beebo.org * * * http://beebo.org From wigs at stirfried.org Tue Mar 4 22:01:17 2003 From: wigs at stirfried.org (Aaron Wigley) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: DTD to module/data structure? In-Reply-To: <51DF7C94-4EBA-11D7-ADB1-0003930BCEFA@beebo.org>; from mjs@beebo.org on Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 02:26:57PM +1100 References: <51DF7C94-4EBA-11D7-ADB1-0003930BCEFA@beebo.org> Message-ID: <20030305150117.A13222@feathers.stirfried.org> On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 02:26:57PM +1100, Michael Stillwell wrote: > Is there any equivalent for Perl? Something that can go from, say, XML::AutoWriter perhaps? http://search.cpan.org/author/RBS/XML-AutoWriter-0.37/lib/XML/AutoWriter.pm It's an attempt at making a version of XML::Writer that is aware of the requirements in the DTD. I haven't used it yet myself, but have been considering it. Aaron From wayland at smartchat.net.au Wed Mar 5 16:48:54 2003 From: wayland at smartchat.net.au (Timothy S. Nelson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Training courses In-Reply-To: <3E6549FA.5090903@conway.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Damian Conway wrote: > ADFH wrote: > > > What organisations still do Perl training courses in the Melbourne area? > > My company Thoughtstream offers a range of corporate Perl training courses, > all taught by me. See: > > http://damian.conway.org/Courses > > for our range of courses. > > As for costs: I'm certainly not cheap (but I'm worth it! ;-) Well, for $700/person, I could hire a fat man to run around the stage shouting "Perl, Perl, Perl". Oh no, wait, Microsoft already has something like that... :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, | | E-mail: wayland@smartchat.net.au | I am | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- Version 3.1 GCS d? s: a-- C++>++++$ US+ P++ L++ E- W+++ N+ w+> M-- V- Y+>++ PGP->++ R(+) !tv B++ DI++++ D+ G e>++ h!/* y- -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- From jobst at barrett.com.au Wed Mar 5 16:40:32 2003 From: jobst at barrett.com.au (Jobst Schmalenbach) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Training courses In-Reply-To: ; from wayland@smartchat.net.au on Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 09:48:54AM +1100 References: <3E6549FA.5090903@conway.org> Message-ID: <20030306094032.A19081@ronnie.barrett.com.au> On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 09:48:54AM +1100, Timothy S. Nelson (wayland@smartchat.net.au) wrote: > On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Damian Conway wrote: > > > ADFH wrote: > > > > > What organisations still do Perl training courses in the Melbourne area? > > > > My company Thoughtstream offers a range of corporate Perl training courses, > > all taught by me. See: > > > > http://damian.conway.org/Courses > > > > for our range of courses. > > > > As for costs: I'm certainly not cheap (but I'm worth it! ;-) > > Well, for $700/person, I could hire a fat man to run around the stage > shouting "Perl, Perl, Perl". Oh no, wait, Microsoft already has something > like that... Wouldnt that be: "VBS, VBS, VBS" and we would reply: "No such file or directory, do you want us to fake it?" j. -- COFFEE.COM not found - Reboot user (Y/N) ? __, Jobst Schmalenbach, jobst@barrett.com.au, Technical Director _ _.--'-n_/ Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L -(_)------(_)= +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia From rendler at iinet.com Mon Mar 10 03:47:43 2003 From: rendler at iinet.com (Robert Rendler) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: httpd conf for multiple vhosts using mod_perl In-Reply-To: <3E6545D6.6010602@its.monash.edu.au> References: <3E6545D6.6010602@its.monash.edu.au> Message-ID: <20030310204743.293d75d4.rendler@iinet.com> On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 11:33:26 +1100 Tim Hunt wrote: > We use mod_perl and HTML::Mason for the site. > > So, the first question is, can we have independent environments for each > vhost? (separate doc root, different config files, ...) Sure, that's pretty easy to do. One way is: NameVirtualHost * DocumentRoot /var/www/site1 ServerName site1.domain.com PerlRequire /var/www/site1/handler.pl DefaultType text/html SetHandler perl-script PerlHandler HTML::Mason::Site1 DocumentRoot /var/www/site2 ServerName site2.domain.com PerlRequire /var/www/site2/handler.pl DefaultType text/html SetHandler perl-script PerlHandler HTML::Mason::Site1 And so on. Basic looking handler.pl: #!/usr/bin/perl package HTML::Mason::Site1; # Bring in main Mason package. use HTML::Mason; use HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler; use strict; my $ah = HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler->new( comp_root => '/var/www/site1', data_dir => '/home/user/site1/mason', ); chown (Apache->server->uid, Apache->server->gid, $ah->interp->files_written); sub handler { my ($r) = @_; return -1 if $r->content_type && $r->content_type !~ m|^text/|io; my $status = $ah->handle_request($r); return $status; } 1; You may want to look at this also for more information about setting such a thing up http://www.masonbook.com/book/chapter-7.mhtml#TOC-ANCHOR-1 From scottp at dd.com.au Mon Mar 10 22:27:49 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Reminder: Monthly meeting tomorrow - Wednesday 7pm Message-ID: This is a quick reminder that the monthly perl mongers meeting is on tomorrow at 7pm with the main topic being Mod Perl. More details to come. Scott -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Mar 11 00:13:59 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Reminder: Monthly meeting tomorrow - Wednesday 7pm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am on drugs, sorry - 6:30 as per normal. Scott On Tuesday, Mar 11, 2003, at 15:27 Australia/Melbourne, Scott Penrose wrote: > This is a quick reminder that the monthly perl mongers meeting is on > tomorrow at 7pm with the main topic being Mod Perl. > > More details to come. > > Scott > -- > Scott Penrose > Open source developer > http://linux.dd.com.au/ > scottp@dd.com.au > > Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). > > > > -- Scott Penrose Welcome to the Digital Dimension http://www.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Contents of this mail and signature are bound to change randomly. Whilst every attempt has been made to control said randomness, the author wishes to remain blameless for the number of eggs that damn chicken laid. Oh and I don't want to hear about butterflies either. From scottp at dd.com.au Tue Mar 11 01:08:31 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: Melbourne.pm Meeting - Wednesday 12th of March 2003 (6:30pm) - mod_perl Message-ID: <43FAE2BF-5390-11D7-8216-003065B58CF8@dd.com.au> Welcome to Melbourne.pm Agenda: * Welcome to Melbourne.pm * What's new in Perl 5 & 6 * 5 minute talk on new modules . Config::General * Next hacking session - Thursday 20th of March 2003 * mod_perl 2 Main Talk: mod_perl 2.0 Stas Bekman is here in Melbourne - an expert and primary developer for Apaches Mod Perl - which is now used by millions of web servers around the world. Stas will be talking for 1.5 - 2 hours on the all important version 2.0 release. Things have changed in version 2 all for the better, here is your chance to hear about those changes straight from the horse's mouth. Mod Perl (http://perl.apache.org/) is the obvious and most sensible choice for developing web based applications in perl. When: 6:30 pm, Wednesday 12th of March 2003 Doors are open from 6:00pm until 6:45pm Where: myinternet Level 8, 14 Blackwood Street North Melbourne Next Meeting: Wednesday March 9th Scott -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). From simon at unisolve.com.au Wed Mar 19 17:50:08 2003 From: simon at unisolve.com.au (Simon Taylor) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help Message-ID: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> Hello fellow perl mongers, Our company has had a very interesting challenge given to us today. We have been involved in tendering for a project to rewrite a large US ERP application (currently written in FORTRAN and using c-isam data files). We lost the tender in January to a company that has since recommended java (or c#) as the language of choice, and has also recommended rewriting the application from scratch. Our competing tender was based naturally, on perl, and on rewriting the application incrementally. The winning tenderer's solution has now been dismissed as too expensive and we are being asked to show why our solution should now be chosen. There are no others tenderers involved. (If we win the project, we would do only a portion of the coding ourselves, other firms would be involved, and would be using perl because our design mandates it). All the application-specific arguments aside, it is coming down to: * Why on earth are you recommending perl? * Nobody knows perl, * Everybody develops large scale apps in java, etc, etc. * perl's too slow isn't it? and incredibly, * who supports perl What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions of larger applications developed in perl. I have good examples in Fastmail.fm and Radiator, but I'm also keen to be able to table other applications, the larger the better. We know that lots of organisations around the world "use perl" in powerful ways, but the same sites "use electricity" as well, and just as with electricity, their uses of perl are transparent to the outside world, and hard to identify. This is an 800,000 line application used by Fortune 500 companies in the US, it would be quite a win for the perl development community. Regards, Simon Taylor -- Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia +61 3 9568 2005 From damian at conway.org Wed Mar 19 18:24:34 2003 From: damian at conway.org (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> References: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> Message-ID: <3E790A42.1020106@conway.org> Simon Taylor wrote: > What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions of larger > applications developed in perl. http://perl.oreilly.com/lpt/a/2112 Damian From Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu Wed Mar 19 18:30:06 2003 From: Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu (Nathan Bailey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: simon's message of Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:50:08 +1100. <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> Message-ID: <200303200030.h2K0U7DA254516@goaway.cc.monash.edu.au> Simon, The my.monash portal is written in perl. Counting lines of code in HTML::Mason is an interesting activity (half HTML, half perl), but let's say we've got 50,000 lines of code, without counting the incredible power of CPAN that we leverage considerably. Universitys are traditionally more open to open source, but we're still a somewhat conservative organisation. Monash is Australia's largest University (since you're dealing with a US company), with some 50,000 students spread across Australia, South-East Asia, South Africa and Europe (that's campuses, there's also OCL/Distance Ed). The portal has been a significant endeavour over a number of years (i.e. it wasn't a backroom project). I'd be happy to provide a reference of an "enterprise level application" written in perl that scales very well in terms of performance, and for which we have been able to find both outside support and significant training expertise for. my.Internet provide a similar portal in perl (Hi Scott :-). A recent presentation to a conference indicated that much of Yahoo is in perl (and a range of other languages) and is moving to PHP. Google makes heavy use of perl. In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any large scale public portal that doesn't use perl (or python or PHP) at some level. J2EE is great, and we're certainly keeping an eye on it, but perl is by no means dead. Having said that, I wouldn't necessarily be writing an ERP in perl though -- that _is_ where J2EE does work pretty well. But if you're talking about _web-enabling_ an ERP -- perl may do wonders for you. HTH, N (a company with an ERP in Fortran is giving _you_ language grief? :P) From bjdean at unimelb.edu.au Wed Mar 19 18:30:24 2003 From: bjdean at unimelb.edu.au (Bradley Dean) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au>; from simon@unisolve.com.au on Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:08AM +1100 References: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> Message-ID: <20030320113024.Y19609@unimelb.edu.au> On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:08AM +1100, Simon Taylor wrote: > What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions of larger > applications developed in perl. mod_perl applications could come under this banner, there's a list of references at perl.apache.org: http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/index.html which might be helpful. Brad -- Melbourne University ITSAD SDI - Campus Wide Info Systems Group (CWIS) Email: bjdean@unimelb.edu.au Phone: +61-3-83443997 Mobile: +61-413014395 Australian Intervarsity Choral Societies Association - Secretary Email: secretary@aicsa.org.au Web: http://www.aicsa.org.au From pjf at perltraining.com.au Wed Mar 19 18:34:02 2003 From: pjf at perltraining.com.au (Paul Fenwick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> References: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> Message-ID: <20030320003402.GA5322@mukc.org.au> G'day Simon, On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:08AM +1100, Simon Taylor wrote: > What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions > of larger applications developed in perl. Ones I can immediately think of. MyInternet - Big portal, lots of cool stuff, all in Perl. Talk to Scott. MyMonash - Big portal, lots of cool stuff, all in Perl. Talk to Nathan. NASA - Uses Perl for satellite control, using "PDL" (Perl Data Lang) Human Genome Project - See http://bioperl.org/GetStarted/tpj_ls_bio.html RT - Ticketing system, very very good, all Perl. MelbUni - Traffic account system, all written in Perl. - Student Information System (SIS), all in Perl (chat to Jacinta) - DNS and IP allocation system, all in Perl (chat to Jacinta) Many many many at http://perl.oreilly.com/news/success_stories.html . This is probably a good place to point your potential clients, as it exists primarily to showcase Perl and what it can do. Good luck with the tender, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From jh_lists at fastmail.fm Wed Mar 19 18:54:14 2003 From: jh_lists at fastmail.fm (JP Howard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: <20030320003402.GA5322@mukc.org.au> References: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> <20030320003402.GA5322@mukc.org.au> Message-ID: <20030320005414.C27C74D7F9@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> I would suggest also posting this request to wider Perl newsgroups (eg http://nntp.x.perl.org/group/perl.advocacy). ----- Original message ----- From: "Paul Fenwick" To: "Simon Taylor" Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:34:02 +1100 Subject: Re: perl used in large developments - I need help G'day Simon, On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:08AM +1100, Simon Taylor wrote: > What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions > of larger applications developed in perl. Ones I can immediately think of. MyInternet - Big portal, lots of cool stuff, all in Perl. Talk to Scott. MyMonash - Big portal, lots of cool stuff, all in Perl. Talk to Nathan. NASA - Uses Perl for satellite control, using "PDL" (Perl Data Lang) Human Genome Project - See http://bioperl.org/GetStarted/tpj_ls_bio.html RT - Ticketing system, very very good, all Perl. MelbUni - Traffic account system, all written in Perl. - Student Information System (SIS), all in Perl (chat to Jacinta) - DNS and IP allocation system, all in Perl (chat to Jacinta) Many many many at http://perl.oreilly.com/news/success_stories.html . This is probably a good place to point your potential clients, as it exists primarily to showcase Perl and what it can do. Good luck with the tender, Paul -- Paul Fenwick | http://perltraining.com.au/ Director of Training | Ph: +61 3 9354 6001 Perl Training Australia | Fax: +61 3 9354 2681 From bjdean at unimelb.edu.au Wed Mar 19 18:54:42 2003 From: bjdean at unimelb.edu.au (Bradley Dean) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: <20030320003402.GA5322@mukc.org.au>; from pjf@perltraining.com.au on Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 11:34:02AM +1100 References: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> <20030320003402.GA5322@mukc.org.au> Message-ID: <20030320115442.Z19609@unimelb.edu.au> On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 11:34:02AM +1100, Fenwick, Paul wrote: > MelbUni - Traffic account system, all written in Perl. > - Student Information System (SIS), all in Perl (chat to Jacinta) > - DNS and IP allocation system, all in Perl (chat to Jacinta) Ah yes good point (should really have looked at the stuff my group was doing really... :) On top of unimelb SIS and IP allocation system, could add: - WebRaft (Online teaching and learning system, all in house modules written in perl with a few third party application extensions) WebRaft currently supports soemthing in the order of 1900+ active subjects, 32,000+ students and 1800+ staff on a single installation (a figure we've not seen generally matched by commerical teaching and learning systems anywhere unless hundreds of thousands of dollars of underlying hardware are involved. (So it's a high-reliability, perl development with the additional bonus of being low cost as well. :) We have a stat's page here: http://webraft.its.unimelb.edu.au/counters.html Cheerio, Brad -- Melbourne University ITSAD SDI - Campus Wide Info Systems Group (CWIS) Email: bjdean@unimelb.edu.au Phone: +61-3-83443997 Mobile: +61-413014395 Australian Intervarsity Choral Societies Association - Secretary Email: secretary@aicsa.org.au Web: http://www.aicsa.org.au From scottp at dd.com.au Wed Mar 19 20:22:14 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: <20030320003402.GA5322@mukc.org.au> Message-ID: On Thursday, Mar 20, 2003, at 11:34 Australia/Melbourne, Paul Fenwick wrote: > G'day Simon, > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:08AM +1100, Simon Taylor wrote: >> What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions >> of larger applications developed in perl. > > Ones I can immediately think of. > > MyInternet - Big portal, lots of cool stuff, all in Perl. Talk to > Scott. MI portal is written using * Languages: Perl and XSLT * Data Files: HTML, JavaScript (yes data as it is just sent to the browser) * Template Files: Template Toolkit Current stats show me. Perl Modules (just files .pm) = 533 Lines of code in Perl Modules = 110,493 Of standard data files (XML and Template Toolkits including MetaData) Total number = 670 Lines in these files = 21,430 XSLT there is This is hard to count, lots of building of data based on inheritance but... About 2671 lines per style and per output type (eg: for style DEFAULT output type HTML there is 2671) At our peak we had 10,000 schools (domain / web severs) and over 1 million users using this code (not sure of the current figures, higher, lower, not sure?). Scott -- Scott Penrose Anthropomorphic Personification Expert http://search.cpan.org/search?author=SCOTT scott@cpan.org Dismaimer: While every attempt has been made to make sure that this email only contains zeros and ones, there has been no effort made to guarantee the quantity or the order. From stas at stason.org Wed Mar 19 21:53:42 2003 From: stas at stason.org (Stas Bekman) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help References: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> <20030320113024.Y19609@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <3E793B46.10403@stason.org> Bradley Dean wrote: > On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:08AM +1100, Simon Taylor wrote: > >>What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions of larger >>applications developed in perl. > > > mod_perl applications could come under this banner, there's a list of > references at perl.apache.org: > > http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/index.html > > which might be helpful. Also you can mention TicketMaster.com, who last year has sold 55% of all tickets online, using mod_perl. And US folks seems to know TicketMaster very well, so it would be a good example. If you need more details, let me know. CitySearch.com is a sister company which also runs mod_perl (with brunches all around the world). __________________________________________________________________ Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com From david_dick at iprimus.com.au Thu Mar 20 14:39:37 2003 From: david_dick at iprimus.com.au (David Dick) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:51 2004 Subject: perl used in large developments - I need help In-Reply-To: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> References: <200303201050.08093.simon@unisolve.com.au> Message-ID: <3E7A2709.4000206@iprimus.com.au> I realise that this is OT slightly, but (depending on the client) you could come at from the other pov that says "you're entering into a legally binding contract with us for us to provide you with service x. This implies we are the experts at providing service x. why are you trying to dictate the environment we work in?" It can be a worthwhile question to ask. Justifying the decision can sometimes seem like you aren't sure what you're doing. just my two cents. :) good luck with it!!! Simon Taylor wrote: >Hello fellow perl mongers, > >Our company has had a very interesting challenge given to us today. > >We have been involved in tendering for a project to rewrite a large US ERP >application (currently written in FORTRAN and using c-isam data files). > >We lost the tender in January to a company that has since recommended java (or >c#) as the language of choice, and has also recommended rewriting the >application from scratch. > >Our competing tender was based naturally, on perl, and on rewriting the >application incrementally. > >The winning tenderer's solution has now been dismissed as too expensive and we >are being asked to show why our solution should now be chosen. There are no >others tenderers involved. (If we win the project, we would do only a portion >of the coding ourselves, other firms would be involved, and would be using >perl because our design mandates it). > >All the application-specific arguments aside, it is coming down to: > > * Why on earth are you recommending perl? > * Nobody knows perl, > * Everybody develops large scale apps in java, etc, etc. > * perl's too slow isn't it? > >and incredibly, > > * who supports perl > >What I desperately need now is pointers to good quality descriptions of larger >applications developed in perl. > >I have good examples in Fastmail.fm and Radiator, but I'm also keen to be able >to table other applications, the larger the better. We know that lots of >organisations around the world "use perl" in powerful ways, but the same sites >"use electricity" as well, and just as with electricity, their uses of perl >are transparent to the outside world, and hard to identify. > >This is an 800,000 line application used by Fortune 500 companies in the US, >it would be quite a win for the perl development community. > >Regards, > >Simon Taylor > > From news at pandasoftware.com Fri Mar 21 13:49:24 2003 From: news at pandasoftware.com (Panda Software News) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: GRATIS, la Guía "Cómo conseguir una empresa 100% Virus Free" Message-ID: <20030321194924.24A74986E2@mail3.panix.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20030321/fc094ce6/attachment.htm From Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu Wed Mar 26 05:08:48 2003 From: Nathan.Bailey at its.monash.edu (Nathan Bailey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: Problems installing Scalar::Util Message-ID: <200303261108.h2QB8nDA309091@goaway.cc.monash.edu.au> Scalar::Util is a dependancy for something else I'm trying to install, but it barfs. A typescript session of installation is available at: http://polynate.net/scalar__util.txt I've got no idea what the failure on dualval means -- any ideas? (i.e. I can see what's failing but I'm not sure what to do about it :-) ta, N From rob at cowsnet.com.au Wed Mar 26 06:23:59 2003 From: rob at cowsnet.com.au (Rob Casey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: Problems installing Scalar::Util In-Reply-To: <200303261108.h2QB8nDA309091@goaway.cc.monash.edu.au> Message-ID: <002101c2f392$953553b0$fa0010ac@hewison.com.au> >From a preliminary look at the module and tests, I think you will find that this is the result of differences in integer representation between compilers. The tests in question that are failing are comparing the result of 1<<31 as returned by Perl and that returned by the dualvar function from the Scalar::Util package. My guess as to the most likely cause of this is a difference in the compiler used to build your Perl binary and that used to build the Scalar::Util package. Cheers, Rob Rob Casey Business Manager, Senior IT Consultant Cowsnet Internet and Professional Services http://www.cowsnet.com.au -----Original Message----- From: owner-melbourne-pm@pm.org [mailto:owner-melbourne-pm@pm.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Bailey Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2003 10:09 PM To: Melbourne Perl Mongers Subject: Problems installing Scalar::Util Scalar::Util is a dependancy for something else I'm trying to install, but it barfs. A typescript session of installation is available at: http://polynate.net/scalar__util.txt I've got no idea what the failure on dualval means -- any ideas? (i.e. I can see what's failing but I'm not sure what to do about it :-) ta, N -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3222 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20030326/12a1f7d9/smime.bin From jh_lists at fastmail.fm Wed Mar 26 17:04:01 2003 From: jh_lists at fastmail.fm (JP Howard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: Problems installing Scalar::Util In-Reply-To: <200303261108.h2QB8nDA309091@goaway.cc.monash.edu.au> References: <200303261108.h2QB8nDA309091@goaway.cc.monash.edu.au> Message-ID: <20030326230401.31BC351FC5@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:08:48 +1100, "Nathan Bailey" said: > Scalar::Util is a dependancy for something else I'm trying to install, > but > it barfs. A typescript session of installation is available at: > http://polynate.net/scalar__util.txt > > I've got no idea what the failure on dualval means -- any ideas? > (i.e. I can see what's failing but I'm not sure what to do about it :-) > I'd suggest running that test manually, first under -w, then in the debugger if you still can't see the problem. From simon at unisolve.com.au Wed Mar 26 17:40:39 2003 From: simon at unisolve.com.au (Simon Taylor) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: J2EE and perl Message-ID: <200303271040.39350.simon@unisolve.com.au> Perl mongers, Last week I asked melbourne.pm for examples of large perl applications. I received a tremendous response, and many great examples, which I have been able to put to good use as we get closer to receiving a decision on the ERP application rewrite contract that we are hoping to win. With one further meeting to go before a final decision on our "all perl" approach is made, I am increasingly being faced with the challenge of justifying perl versus J2EE. This is an ERP application, which provides job cost control, US payroll and general ledger accounting for the construction and general contracting industries. I've worked with the bloody thing for years, and as far as I am concerned perl is replete with riches that I can use to rewrite it. Does anyone care to an opinion as to whether The J2EE approach truly offers something concrete that perl does not? Here's a distillation of some J2EE sites I've visited: J2EE is a set of standards that, when used together, provide an excellent web application development and deployment platform. J2EE includes standards for middleware (EJB and JMS), database connectivity (JDBC), transactions (JTA/JTS), presentation (servlets and Java Server Pages) and directory services (JNDI). Enterprise developers can draw on J2EE to speed up their application development. Instead of hand writing database code or pool management, they can leverage Enterprise Java Beans (EJBs) to automatically store data. Instead of manually dealing with transactions, system developers can use J2EE's built-in capabilities to run transactions in an automated fashion. Instead of creating all business code from scratch, consultants can assemble components to build their application in a "Lego" fashion. Regards, Simon Taylor -- Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia +61 3 9568 2005 From stas at stason.org Wed Mar 26 18:21:17 2003 From: stas at stason.org (Stas Bekman) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: J2EE and perl References: <200303271040.39350.simon@unisolve.com.au> Message-ID: <3E8243FD.5050106@stason.org> Simon Taylor wrote: [...] > Does anyone care to an opinion as to whether The J2EE approach truly offers > something concrete that perl does not? Hi Simon, You probably want to spend some time at this site: http://p5ee.perl.org/ In particular reading the list archives, were all these questions were discussed to death: http://archive.develooper.com/p5ee%40perl.org/ Though I suggest to read the archive from the very beginning and not the recent posts, since it's at the beginning when the interesting (and the relevant to your question) things were discussed. So you should probably start at the bottom of this page: http://archive.develooper.com/p5ee%40perl.org/thrd2.html __________________________________________________________________ Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com From scottp at dd.com.au Thu Mar 27 14:44:18 2003 From: scottp at dd.com.au (Scott Penrose) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: VTR Open Day - Tomorrow 10AM - Roseneath Place, South Melbourne Message-ID: Hey Dudes, Just a reminder that the VTR Open Day is open tomorrow from 10AM till 4PM. We have a stand and demonstration running all day (2 computers connected to hardware and demonstrating web applications), books, posters and more. Please come along and give your support or just come and see what other user groups are around. It is a fun day, with lots of things to pick up, people to talk to, demonstrations to see and more. Details: > VTR Consulting would like to invite you to the 3rd Australian IT User > Groups > Open Day. The idea behind the organisation of the Open Day, a > non-commercial > event, is for VTR to facilitate a meeting between IT professionals and > the > numerous User Groups that represent a wide range of specialist IT > skills. > > Saturday, the 29th of March 2003, between 10 am - 4 pm, at VTR's > premises, > at Roseneath Place, South Melbourne, you will have the opportunity to > meet > 20 IT User Groups under one roof! > > The User Groups Day, an IT community event, represents an excellent > opportunity to talk to members about their group's activities and the > numerous benefits associated with membership in an IT user group. > > Find out how non-profit IT User Groups can help you develop your > existing > career or simply put you together with others that share your > interests and > knowledge. > > Groups that will be represented on the day include: > > Australian Computer Society > Australian Delphi Users Group > Australian Developers.NETwork > Australian Java Users Group > Australian Oracle Users Group > Australian Software Metrics Association > Australian Unix Users Group > Australian Zope Users Group > Cold Fusion Users Group > Computer Management Group > Data Management Association > Internet Macintosh Users Group > Linux Users of Victoria > Macromedia Users Victoria > Melbourne Extreme Programming Enthusiasts Group > Melbourne Perl Mongers > Melbourne Sybase Users Group > Project Management Institute > SAP Australian User Group > System Administrators Guild of Australia > > If you would like to attend this FREE event, simply email us at: > openday@vtr.com.au > > For further details on the IT User Groups Day, please visit: > http://www.vtr.com.au/openday.html > > The event is proudly sponsored by: > Sun Microsystems (Corporate Sponsor) - www.sun.com.au > ZDNet Australia (Media Sponsor) - www.zdnet.com.au > JOBNET (Online Sponsor) - www.jobnet.com.au -- Scott Penrose Open source developer http://linux.dd.com.au/ scottp@dd.com.au Dismaimer: Open sauce usually ends up never coming out (of the bottle). From T.Collins at paracelsus.newcastle.edu.au Mon Mar 31 16:05:27 2003 From: T.Collins at paracelsus.newcastle.edu.au (Term Life Ins.) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: You can't predict the future, but you can always prepare for it. 2589 Message-ID: <00000553720e$00005fbd$000071fc@mailbackup.kennisnet.nl> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/melbourne-pm/attachments/20030331/298f7b7d/attachment.htm From jens at cyber.com.au Mon Mar 31 22:52:52 2003 From: jens at cyber.com.au (Jens Porup) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:02:52 2004 Subject: Check out CPAN today Message-ID: <20030401045252.GN6830@vanilla.office.cyber.com.au> If you haven't seen cpan.org today, do so now... or should I say Matt's Script Archive? Jens