From rower at movieeditor.com Wed Feb 1 17:08:10 2006 From: rower at movieeditor.com (Robin Rowe) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 17:08:10 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org Message-ID: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> Just FYI, in case there are rumors going around about hollywood.pm.org. I applied to pm.org to get hollywood.pm.org recently. That was initially granted but quickly rescinded after Robert Spier's objection. According to pm.org manager Dave Cross, having more than one Perl group in any metropolitan area is against their policy. In rejecting my request for hollywood.pm.org, Dave said that over a hundred Perl groups listed have gone away due to lack of interest. He plainly doubted another group here could be supported. When I pointed out that Los Angeles is a 465 square mile area, Dave said that London is 600 square miles and served very well by just one Perl group. Before anyone here offers any suggestions, I'm not seeking advice how to run my life. Dave Cross suggested I air any complaints I might have about how la.pm.org is run, that is, become a critic. Many from support at pm.org wrote me to suggest I should volunteer my time to work for Robert, apparently in a belief that putting incompatible personalities on the same team could result in harmony. Nobody has time for critics and I certainly don't have time to be one. I believe it's important to have like-minded people running a volunteer organization. I'm not upset and have no reason to care what pm.org decided. Cheers, Robin From duong.v at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 17:40:17 2006 From: duong.v at gmail.com (Duong Vu) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 17:40:17 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <50b93bb00602011739q2e184d9l6eef4e84d02ef6c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> <50b93bb00602011739q2e184d9l6eef4e84d02ef6c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50b93bb00602011740x13f31cd2j9d1471af407ded02@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Duong Vu Date: Feb 1, 2006 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org To: Robin Rowe I personally think LA is too big to be served by one PM. I would like to go to a LA PM meeting some times but I often find it too out of the way. Living in San Fernando Valley, I was very happy to see that a valley PM is coming soon ... until I soon realise coming soon means never. At least I've been waiting for what seems like forever. Hollywood can be consider part of the valley. In which case, if no one is doing anything with http://valleyperl.pm.org/, maybe you should request to take that over. If you do, I'll do what I can to help out. I tried to find some contact info of people behind valleyperl but didn't find anything other then a link to Valkaryn Internet Group. If anyone knows anything about this group and what progress they are making in getting it up and running, please let me know. Sincerely, Duong Vu On 2/1/06, Robin Rowe wrote: > Just FYI, in case there are rumors going around about hollywood.pm.org. > > I applied to pm.org to get hollywood.pm.org recently. That was initially > granted but quickly rescinded after Robert Spier's objection. According > to pm.org manager Dave Cross, having more than one Perl group in any > metropolitan area is against their policy. In rejecting my request for > hollywood.pm.org, Dave said that over a hundred Perl groups listed have > gone away due to lack of interest. He plainly doubted another group here > could be supported. When I pointed out that Los Angeles is a 465 square > mile area, Dave said that London is 600 square miles and served very > well by just one Perl group. > > Before anyone here offers any suggestions, I'm not seeking advice how to > run my life. Dave Cross suggested I air any complaints I might have > about how la.pm.org is run, that is, become a critic. Many from > support at pm.org wrote me to suggest I should volunteer my time to work > for Robert, apparently in a belief that putting incompatible > personalities on the same team could result in harmony. > > Nobody has time for critics and I certainly don't have time to be one. I > believe it's important to have like-minded people running a volunteer > organization. I'm not upset and have no reason to care what pm.org decided. > > Cheers, > > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com Wed Feb 1 18:08:47 2006 From: kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com (Kevin Scaldeferri) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 18:08:47 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <50b93bb00602011740x13f31cd2j9d1471af407ded02@mail.gmail.com> References: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> <50b93bb00602011739q2e184d9l6eef4e84d02ef6c0@mail.gmail.com> <50b93bb00602011740x13f31cd2j9d1471af407ded02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:40 PM, Duong Vu wrote: > > I personally think LA is too big to be served by one PM. I would like > to go > to a LA PM meeting some times but I often find it too out of the way. So, organize a meeting in your neck of the woods. One PM doesn't have to mean one meeting in one place all the time. Given that the number of people motivated to regularly plan meetings seems to be close to 0, I can't really see how splitting the group would help. -kevin From Todd.Cranston-Cuebas at Ticketmaster.com Wed Feb 1 20:56:21 2006 From: Todd.Cranston-Cuebas at Ticketmaster.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:56:21 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org Message-ID: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> I find this whole debate to be interesting. As many of you already know, Ticketmaster is based out of West Hollywood. One issue that has repeatedly come up when discussing using our location as a venue for events is that we're not easily accessible. Granted the commuting in-and-out on surface streets can be an issue, but I think there is a bigger problem. It is simply true that LA is big enough that it poses significant obstacles to people consistently attending certain events when you have to cross the entire length of a city of this size. For instance, I find any event in Santa Monica to be totally inaccessible! I think this talk has some validity so I'm interested in hearing what people have to say. I know that there are a few groups that I used to attend on a regular basis for which I have become more sporatic because the traffic has made it more difficult to work the group meeting into my schedule. Todd > -----Original Message----- > From: losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org > [mailto:losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org] On > Behalf Of Kevin Scaldeferri > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:09 PM > To: Duong Vu > Cc: Losangeles-pm at pm.org > Subject: Re: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org > > > On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:40 PM, Duong Vu wrote: > > > > > I personally think LA is too big to be served by one PM. I > would like > > to go to a LA PM meeting some times but I often find it too out of > > the way. > > > So, organize a meeting in your neck of the woods. > > One PM doesn't have to mean one meeting in one place all the time. > > Given that the number of people motivated to regularly plan > meetings seems to be close to 0, I can't really see how > splitting the group would help. > > > -kevin > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From christopher.nielsen at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 22:10:40 2006 From: christopher.nielsen at gmail.com (Christopher Nielsen) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:10:40 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> Message-ID: More meetings seems good. I'd probably go if there were one in Hollywood. We don't seem to stand on ceremony, anyway really. I think a few meetings so far have been unofficial this year. If people want to do impromptu food, drink, and Perl in Hollywood/SF Valley, we could start throwing out names of places, figure it out, and whoever shows up, has the most fun :) Chris -- christopher.nielsen at gmail.com "Ooh!, Whas' at?!" From smawhoo at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 22:18:38 2006 From: smawhoo at yahoo.com (Jeff) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:18:38 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> Message-ID: <870396B0-97B3-490E-922F-5DD2FECCB781@yahoo.com> My understanding most meeting took place in Hollywood and west LA area already, no? I suggest we have a location in the east side, pasadena would be ideal. On Feb 1, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > More meetings seems good. I'd probably go if there were one in > Hollywood. > > We don't seem to stand on ceremony, anyway really. I think a few > meetings so far have been unofficial this year. > > If people want to do impromptu food, drink, and Perl in Hollywood/SF > Valley, we could start throwing out names of places, figure it out, > and whoever shows up, has the most fun :) > > Chris > > -- > christopher.nielsen at gmail.com > "Ooh!, Whas' at?!" > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm From Todd.Cranston-Cuebas at Ticketmaster.com Wed Feb 1 23:09:32 2006 From: Todd.Cranston-Cuebas at Ticketmaster.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 23:09:32 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org Message-ID: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA719@pasmail3.office.tmcs> The only issue is that if we try to start having guest speakers, etc. it's really hard to just have people "show up." I'll need some guestimate of the number of people coming to figure out the space. Also, if I try and get a speaker, they typically want to know about how many people they'll be talking to. I guess it's a matter of whether things stay highly informal, or if the tech talks are more orchestrated. Orchestration requires some stability in attendance, etc. I'm not sure that I have the perfect answer to the location issue. Todd > -----Original Message----- > From: losangeles-pm-bounces at pm.org > [mailto:losangeles-pm-bounces at pm.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Nielsen > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 10:11 PM > To: Los Angeles Perl Mongers > Subject: Re: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org > > More meetings seems good. I'd probably go if there were one > in Hollywood. > > We don't seem to stand on ceremony, anyway really. I think a > few meetings so far have been unofficial this year. > > If people want to do impromptu food, drink, and Perl in > Hollywood/SF Valley, we could start throwing out names of > places, figure it out, and whoever shows up, has the most fun :) > > Chris > > -- > christopher.nielsen at gmail.com > "Ooh!, Whas' at?!" > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From pete at peterbenjamin.com Wed Feb 1 22:47:24 2006 From: pete at peterbenjamin.com (Peter Benjamin) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:47:24 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> References: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060201224204.049c4cd0@peterbenjamin.com> At 05:08 PM 2/1/2006, Robin Rowe wrote: >gone away due to lack of interest. He plainly doubted another group here >could be supported. When I pointed out that Los Angeles is a 465 square >mile area, Dave said that London is 600 square miles and served very >well by just one Perl group. The difference of housing density between London and LA. LA is wall to wall houses. London is mostly grass from what I saw on the train leaving the "city" of London. But the LA PM meeting centroid is Hollywood to date. There have been Santa Monica meetings (I missed that one due to conflict), SFV meetings, and meetings near downtown. >support at pm.org wrote me to suggest I should volunteer my time to work >for Robert, apparently in a belief that putting incompatible >personalities on the same team could result in harmony. I vote for you posting when and where and who on what is speaking, and I believe they will come. BTW, Robin runs the Linux Movies Group. For how many years now? 5? 6? So, Robin does know how to get speakers, venues, and post about meetings. He's got the track record. I've been to a half dozen meetings of his to date. I believe he would have monthly meetings for year after year. What I did not know was Robin was a monger. Welcome to the group. From pete at peterbenjamin.com Thu Feb 2 00:10:25 2006 From: pete at peterbenjamin.com (Peter Benjamin) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:10:25 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA719@pasmail3.office.t mcs> References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA719@pasmail3.office.tmcs> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202000155.04a57eb8@peterbenjamin.com> At 11:09 PM 2/1/2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: >The only issue is that if we try to start having guest speakers, etc. it's >really hard to just have people "show up." I'll need some guestimate of the >number of people coming to figure out the space. Also, if I try and get a >speaker, they typically want to know about how many people they'll be >talking to. I guess it's a matter of whether things stay highly informal, or >if the tech talks are more orchestrated. Orchestration requires some >stability in attendance, etc. > >I'm not sure that I have the perfect answer to the location issue. Todd you understand the situation pretty well. I've been running user groups and the like for over 10 years now, and the venue is the largest issue, with enough seating, parking, directions, lobby access, locked doors, and a ton of issues. Point I wish to make is to at least have one meeting at a location before trying to make any decisions about future meetings in the same location. This applies to any location. Once everyone has seen the location, then the postings tend to be solution oriented, instead of pointing out potential problems of an unseen place. So, I would vote for Todd understanding we would only have "one" meeting at his graciously offered venue. Then we can talk about future meetings, regular meetings, scheduling speakers. And if Todd can continue offering the same venue for meetings or not, is something Todd can speak on at that time. It would be cool if the time was right for monthly LA meetings, at first one venue seating 20, then due to stand up room only, we changed venues to something that held 60, then a few months later to another venue holding 100... On the hand, this group's tradition for meetings... And I see that is where Robin might be of great insight. He has seen a lot of venues. He has contacts. More than anyone else I know in LA. I do not know everyone in LA, so this is not too unusual. From rower at movieeditor.com Thu Feb 2 00:51:04 2006 From: rower at movieeditor.com (Robin Rowe) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:51:04 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Usage of => Message-ID: <43E1C7F8.2060202@movieeditor.com> Is there a good doc somewhere on the usage of => for named parameters in subroutines? Thank you, Robin From don at donarmstrong.com Thu Feb 2 00:57:29 2006 From: don at donarmstrong.com (Don Armstrong) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 00:57:29 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Usage of => In-Reply-To: <43E1C7F8.2060202@movieeditor.com> References: <43E1C7F8.2060202@movieeditor.com> Message-ID: <20060202085729.GK17042@rzlab.ucr.edu> On Thu, 02 Feb 2006, Robin Rowe wrote: > Is there a good doc somewhere on the usage of => for named parameters in > subroutines? => is just a "magic" quoting comma. If you want to use named parameters in subroutines, I strongly suggest using Params::Validate. Don Armstrong -- Dropping non-free would set us back at least, what, 300 packages? It'd take MONTHS to make up the difference, and meanwhile Debian users will be fleeing to SLACKWARE. And what about SHAREHOLDER VALUE? -- Matt Zimmerman in http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu From john.beppu at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 01:00:27 2006 From: john.beppu at gmail.com (John Beppu) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:00:27 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Usage of => In-Reply-To: <43E1C7F8.2060202@movieeditor.com> References: <43E1C7F8.2060202@movieeditor.com> Message-ID: <21a10fe00602020100x1868a049qf5e1f7070e908276@mail.gmail.com> Hey Robin, => is a glorified comma that quotes the bareword that precedes it. Therefore ('key', 'value') is equivalent to (key => 'value'). If you want to write a sub that can accept named parameters, you'd usually do something like this: sub foo { my %param = @_ print "x is $param{x}; y is $param{y}\n"; } foo(x => 8, y => 16); On 2/2/06, Robin Rowe wrote: > Is there a good doc somewhere on the usage of => for named parameters in > subroutines? > From allenday at ucla.edu Thu Feb 2 02:52:49 2006 From: allenday at ucla.edu (Allen Day) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 02:52:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Feb 2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > I find this whole debate to be interesting. As many of you already know, > Ticketmaster is based out of West Hollywood. One issue that has repeatedly > come up when discussing using our location as a venue for events is that > we're not easily accessible. Granted the commuting in-and-out on surface > streets can be an issue, but I think there is a bigger problem. It is simply > true that LA is big enough that it poses significant obstacles to people > consistently attending certain events when you have to cross the entire > length of a city of this size. For instance, I find any event in Santa > Monica to be totally inaccessible! I agree with this. I commute between Culver City and Westwood, and sadly find the Hollywood meetings impossible to attend. I have yet to attend a Linux Movies meeting after > 4 years of receiving announcements for them. -Allen > > I think this talk has some validity so I'm interested in hearing what people > have to say. I know that there are a few groups that I used to attend on a > regular basis for which I have become more sporatic because the traffic has > made it more difficult to work the group meeting into my schedule. > > Todd > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org > > [mailto:losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org] On > > Behalf Of Kevin Scaldeferri > > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:09 PM > > To: Duong Vu > > Cc: Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > Subject: Re: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:40 PM, Duong Vu wrote: > > > > > > > > I personally think LA is too big to be served by one PM. I > > would like > > > to go to a LA PM meeting some times but I often find it too out of > > > the way. > > > > > > So, organize a meeting in your neck of the woods. > > > > One PM doesn't have to mean one meeting in one place all the time. > > > > Given that the number of people motivated to regularly plan > > meetings seems to be close to 0, I can't really see how > > splitting the group would help. > > > > > > -kevin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From metaperl at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 04:43:03 2006 From: metaperl at gmail.com (Terrence Brannon) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 04:43:03 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] I will not give a March technical talk Message-ID: I am happy and eager to give the February talk, but I don't think it is "@TheRightThing" for me to talk in March as well... @TheRightThing = qw(fair community-minded distributed humble interesting etc) ; I know that two readers of this list use Catalyst on a daily basis at work and there are probably more. The monthly technical talk has to be a community thing. There are probably 1000 Perlers within commuting distance of Ticketmaster. There is no reason why someone else can't find the time to share something useful and stimulating. If you can't talk for an hour, then 5-30 minutes is fine and we find someone/something else for the other 5-30 minutes. I think I have given adequate advance notice for Todd to continue his recruitment efforts for March. From arkadiy at arkadiy.com Thu Feb 2 08:38:29 2006 From: arkadiy at arkadiy.com (Arkadiy) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:38:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] I will not give a March technical talk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060202163829.59110.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hm! --- Terrence Brannon wrote: > I am happy and eager to give the February talk, but > I don't think it > is "@TheRightThing" for me to talk in March as > well... > > @TheRightThing = qw(fair community-minded > distributed humble > interesting etc) ; > > I know that two readers of this list use Catalyst on > a daily basis at > work and there are probably more. > > The monthly technical talk has to be a community > thing. There are > probably 1000 Perlers within commuting distance of > Ticketmaster. There > is no reason why someone else can't find the time to > share something > useful and stimulating. If you can't talk for an > hour, then 5-30 > minutes is fine and we find someone/something else > for the other 5-30 > minutes. > > I think I have given adequate advance notice for > Todd to continue his > recruitment efforts for March. > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com Thu Feb 2 08:36:01 2006 From: kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com (Kevin Scaldeferri) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:36:01 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> Message-ID: <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> On Feb 2, 2006, at 2:52 AM, Allen Day wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Feb 2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > >> I find this whole debate to be interesting. As many of you already >> know, >> Ticketmaster is based out of West Hollywood. One issue that has >> repeatedly >> come up when discussing using our location as a venue for events is >> that >> we're not easily accessible. Granted the commuting in-and-out on >> surface >> streets can be an issue, but I think there is a bigger problem. It is >> simply >> true that LA is big enough that it poses significant obstacles to >> people >> consistently attending certain events when you have to cross the >> entire >> length of a city of this size. For instance, I find any event in Santa >> Monica to be totally inaccessible! > > I agree with this. I commute between Culver City and Westwood, and > sadly > find the Hollywood meetings impossible to attend. I have yet to > attend a > Linux Movies meeting after > 4 years of receiving announcements for > them. > Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see one person who works in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another basically vice-versa. I mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? Hardly "the entire length of the city". Do folks realize that people used to come from *Irvine* to attend LAJUG meetings in Pasadena? It starts to sound like the problem is really that people aren't all that interested in having a group (or that their interest isn't being engaged), rather than that there is a problem with location. I'm sorry to pick on people, and I hope you don't take it personally, but I really think that the root problem isn't where the meetings are or aren't located. -kevin From metaperl at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 08:58:41 2006 From: metaperl at gmail.com (Terrence Brannon) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:58:41 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: On 2/2/06, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see one person who works > in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another basically vice-versa. I > mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? it's 11 miles: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=West+Hollywood,+CA&daddr=Santa+Monica,+CA&ll=34.05262,-118.42596&spn=0.189444,0.192261 > Hardly "the entire length of the > city". > yeah, but in LA during the week, that is unpredictably grueling. Unlike Chicago and NYC where you can get anywhere in predictable times because of the extensive and punctual train system, in LA, you have to climb into a car and pray. > Do folks realize that people used to come from *Irvine* to attend LAJUG > meetings in Pasadena? Doug Wilson came from Laguna Beach to Burbank for the bdfoy meeting! > > It starts to sound like the problem is really that people aren't all > that interested in having a group (or that their interest isn't being > engaged), yes, when Tim Bunce came to Thousand Oaks Perl Mongers, people were coming out of the woodworks. And one guy did in fact come from Santa Monica for the meeting. who wants to put time and effort and gas and risk of accident into hearing Terrence Brannon huff-and-puff about HTML::Seamstress versus the same risks to hear Andy Wardley talk about Template Toolkit? >rather than that there is a problem with location. Location is a factor. If you can just work a little later and saunter over to the conference room for a talk versus battling traffic (which might mean going in the opposite direction from home), it does factor in. > > I'm sorry to pick on people, and I hope you don't take it personally, > but I really think that the root problem isn't where the meetings are > or aren't located. go_home_and_watch_the_lakers() # instead of going to LA.pm if ($location + $quality_of_speaker + $quality_of_topic + $wife_not_bitching + $kids_doing_fine_on_homework + $no_overtime_needed_at_work) < $threshold; it's a multi-variable equation and each of us has our own weights to add to each of the factors. > > > -kevin > -- Play me in correspondence chess: http://slowchess.com/profile.php?username=tbrannon From smawhoo at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 09:07:23 2006 From: smawhoo at yahoo.com (Jeff) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:07:23 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: <6C7A201B-3469-4B6D-BA6C-D394B51AB358@yahoo.com> While we are discussing this, why don't we first find out each group member's location? Me -- Arcadia On Feb 2, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 2:52 AM, Allen Day wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 1 Feb 2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: >> >>> I find this whole debate to be interesting. As many of you already >>> know, >>> Ticketmaster is based out of West Hollywood. One issue that has >>> repeatedly >>> come up when discussing using our location as a venue for events is >>> that >>> we're not easily accessible. Granted the commuting in-and-out on >>> surface >>> streets can be an issue, but I think there is a bigger problem. >>> It is >>> simply >>> true that LA is big enough that it poses significant obstacles to >>> people >>> consistently attending certain events when you have to cross the >>> entire >>> length of a city of this size. For instance, I find any event in >>> Santa >>> Monica to be totally inaccessible! >> >> I agree with this. I commute between Culver City and Westwood, and >> sadly >> find the Hollywood meetings impossible to attend. I have yet to >> attend a >> Linux Movies meeting after > 4 years of receiving announcements for >> them. >> > > Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see one person who > works > in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another basically vice-versa. I > mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? Hardly "the entire length of the > city". > > Do folks realize that people used to come from *Irvine* to attend > LAJUG > meetings in Pasadena? > > It starts to sound like the problem is really that people aren't all > that interested in having a group (or that their interest isn't being > engaged), rather than that there is a problem with location. > > I'm sorry to pick on people, and I hope you don't take it personally, > but I really think that the root problem isn't where the meetings are > or aren't located. > > > -kevin > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm From Peter at PSDT.com Thu Feb 2 09:07:12 2006 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 09:07:12 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060201224204.049c4cd0@peterbenjamin.com> References: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060201224204.049c4cd0@peterbenjamin.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> At 10:47 PM 2/1/2006, Peter Benjamin wrote: >At 05:08 PM 2/1/2006, Robin Rowe wrote: > >gone away due to lack of interest. He plainly doubted another group here > >could be supported. When I pointed out that Los Angeles is a 465 square > >mile area, Dave said that London is 600 square miles and served very > >well by just one Perl group. > >The difference of housing density between London and LA. >LA is wall to wall houses. London is mostly grass from >what I saw on the train leaving the "city" of London. Your impression is erroneous. Firstly, that which goes by the term "City of London" is actually a tiny area in the heart of London encompassing the financial district. "Greater London" refers to that city plus numerous surrounding boroughs. But from outside Greater London, people will invariably refer to Greater London as just "London". Much like Los Angeles, only the ratio of surroundings to core is more pronounced. In order to see "mostly grass" you would have been leaving Greater London. Anywhere near the City, London is packed densely with far more residential high-rise housing than Los Angeles. Its population eclipses that of Los Angeles (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_London). British people live in much smaller average footprints than Americans. Also, Greater London has public transportation that works extremely well. My wife, a native Angeleno, could not comprehend its efficiency when I described it until we went there. Transit times can be shorter than they would be if you used a car and the streets were clear, which they are not. That last factor argues in favor of breaking out Hollywood simply because of the sheer difficulty of travelling in and out of the area. Although I can't help wondering whether it would be followed by a West Hollywood schism. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com Thu Feb 2 09:42:12 2006 From: kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com (Kevin Scaldeferri) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:42:12 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2006, at 8:58 AM, Terrence Brannon wrote: > On 2/2/06, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > >> Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see one person who >> works >> in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another basically vice-versa. I >> mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? > > it's 11 miles: > http://maps.google.com/maps? > f=d&hl=en&saddr=West+Hollywood,+CA&daddr=Santa+Monica,+CA&ll=34.05262,- > 118.42596&spn=0.189444,0.192261 > > Okay, at least for some locations in the two cities, and taking the longer-distance freeway route. On surface streets, that span is 8 miles, and you're a mile or two into SM at that point. Westwood (home for one of the individuals) is barely over 4 miles. Niggling aside, I think we actually agreed that under the right conditions, people would make that drive. -k From terrymcintyre at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 10:01:47 2006 From: terrymcintyre at yahoo.com (terry mcintyre) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> Message-ID: <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Peter Scott wrote: > Anywhere near the City, London is packed > densely with far more residential high-rise > housing than Los Angeles. Its population > eclipses that of Los Angeles (see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_London). > British people live in much smaller average > footprints than Americans. One wonders if this is true vis a vis Angelenos - I am from Pittsburgh, and I can tell you that living quarters here are quite cramped, due to the cost of land, compared to what one enjoys in the Midwest. > Also, Greater London has public transportation > that works extremely well. There is probably a correlation between high density and the effectiveness of mass transit. Imagine the web of tunnels and trains which would be required to carry people to and fro the myriad locations in the Greater Los Angeles area. Imagine the risks of a major earthquake. I can, by the way, well imagine a place where traffic is worse than in Los Angeles. Try Pittsburgh during a snow storm -- it can take hours to travel 8 miles. Even an ordinary rush hour can cause an 8 mile commute to take over an hour. Terry McIntyre UNIX for hire software development / systems administration / security 213-291-5169 or 2132915169 at tmomail.com ( text ) terrymcintyre at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From duong.v at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 10:07:00 2006 From: duong.v at gmail.com (Duong Vu) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:07:00 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: <50b93bb00602021007p6c1366ffmebe775c362102815@mail.gmail.com> That one guy from Santa Monica is me. The very same guy who said he would like to go to more LA PM meetings if only if it's not out of the way. I find it easier to attend TO's PM meetings because it's easier to get to even though it's further away. It's not about distance. It's about if I can get there on time without leaving work too early and if I can get home at a reasonable time so I can have some family time. I would also argue that if there are more PM groups, move people will go to meetings for the very same reason and this can work because we have a lot perl developers in Los Angeles relative to other cities. And more of us being active in the local Perl community can only benefit us all. Duong On 2/2/06, Terrence Brannon wrote: > On 2/2/06, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > > > Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see one person who works > > in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another basically vice-versa. I > > mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? > > it's 11 miles: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=West+Hollywood,+CA&daddr=Santa+Monica,+CA&ll=34.05262,-118.42596&spn=0.189444,0.192261 > > > Hardly "the entire length of the > > city". > > > > yeah, but in LA during the week, that is unpredictably grueling. > Unlike Chicago and NYC where you can get anywhere in predictable times > because of the extensive and punctual train system, in LA, you have to > climb into a car and pray. > > > > Do folks realize that people used to come from *Irvine* to attend LAJUG > > meetings in Pasadena? > > Doug Wilson came from Laguna Beach to Burbank for the bdfoy meeting! > > > > > It starts to sound like the problem is really that people aren't all > > that interested in having a group (or that their interest isn't being > > engaged), > > yes, when Tim Bunce came to Thousand Oaks Perl Mongers, people were > coming out of the woodworks. And one guy did in fact come from Santa > Monica for the meeting. From Peter at PSDT.com Thu Feb 2 10:40:42 2006 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 10:40:42 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202104002.03442958@mail.webquarry.com> At 10:01 AM 2/2/2006, terry mcintyre wrote: > > British people live in much smaller average > > footprints than Americans. > >One wonders if this is true vis a vis Angelenos - >I am from Pittsburgh, and I can tell you that >living quarters here are quite cramped, due to >the cost of land, compared to what one enjoys in >the Midwest. Um, granted. I've seen what people put up with in NYC :-) But the statement is true on average. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ http://www.perlmedic.com/ From pete at peterbenjamin.com Thu Feb 2 10:48:31 2006 From: pete at peterbenjamin.com (Peter Benjamin) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 10:48:31 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202102240.04a9a158@peterbenjamin.com> IMO, the LA PM mailing list should be the forum to make the decision of how many PMs should be in LA. Towards that end I supply information for that argument. And to state I sure would like monthly meetings. And I would drive to Ticketmaster from Santa Monica for at least the first 3-6 meetings there. Why so few? Read about the commute below. At 10:01 AM 2/2/2006, terry mcintyre wrote: >I can, by the way, well imagine a place where traffic >is worse than in Los Angeles. Try Pittsburgh during a >snow storm -- it can take hours to travel 8 miles. >Even >an ordinary rush hour can cause an 8 mile commute to >take over an hour. Well, LA has Pittsburgh beat then. The 10 Freeway is still the busiest freeway in the world. It's rush hour is from 2:30 to 7:30. I know. For the LAMPsig.org meetings I travel from Santa Monica to Hoover. On a normal "early" day it takes 20 minutes. This same 11 miles has taken me 1 hour, 1.5 hours and 2 hours. It is terrible. And I bring the video projector to the meeting, and must arrive 15 minutes before to have time to set it up. The average time to go the 1 mile from my home office to the 10 freeway is 20 minutes along Lincoln. The average time to travel from downtown Santa Monica to the 405, a 5 mile stretch is 30 minutes or more. Never less. So, the posters who make 'light' of that short commute, should not. To get past the 405, on either the freeway or streets is another 10 minutes, to go just 1 mile. Sometimes 20 minutes on the street. Any accident or CHP parked on the freeway causes the freeway to be 20 minutes. Any accident on the 405 north or south causes this 1 mile to get past the 405 to be 30 minutes. At that point on the freeway it speeds up, and getting to an exit before Harbor Freeway is not much of a problem. Erh, well, Hoover just before the interchange can take 20 minutes to get off the freeway. So one gets off at Vermont and goes north several miles before cutting over to Hoover. Now getting off at Fairfax to go north... no brainer... never do it. It necks down to one lane, and to get to Ticketmaster on Fairfax means adding 2 hours. Yes, 2 hours to go 3 miles. (I made that mistake only once.) So, La Brea or La Cienega are the only alternatives. 20 minutes minimum to go north to Melrose. I have a client on Melrose, so I know. That is, if you take the parking lane at speed. Otherwise, about 35 minutes. So, minimum time from Santa Monica to Ticketmaster is 70 minutes. Of stop and go. Average would be about 90 minutes. Sometimes it would be 2 hours. After that, one is in no mood to sit some more, and no mood to "network" with fellow mongers. A cool down of 20 minutes is needed. So leaving work at least 90 minutes early is needed. And eating dinner needs to be added. To be consistently there on time, and in a good mood means leaving work 3 hours before the meeting or before 4:00. And half the time that will mean getting there 30-45 minutes early with nothing to do but wait. It is a problem. -- One solution is to have a pre dinner event there for those with the long commute, where it is known we must wind down, relax, eat a slow meal, and just exchange knowing looks that no one is a talking mood. Is there a restaurant in the area where parking is free enough to not have to move it to go to Ticketmaster? -- It is wrong to not have LA metro have two or more Monger groups. We have almost a dozen LUGs. www.LALUGS.org I've written this long post just to make that point. Comparing LA to London, that has been done on this list as well now. I think it can be agreed there is no comparing the two cities as being "commute similar." The entire thread, when done, can be mailed to the PM master for review. From kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com Thu Feb 2 11:07:34 2006 From: kevin+lapm at scaldeferri.com (Kevin Scaldeferri) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:07:34 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202102240.04a9a158@peterbenjamin.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060202102240.04a9a158@peterbenjamin.com> Message-ID: <0e7192ff3020b6522c02614d58536e95@scaldeferri.com> Only half joking... This pretty much makes it sound like the situation for those on Westside is utterly hopeless unless the meeting is essentially at their work (which clearly can't work for everyone). So, probably we should just give up on that crowd entirely and make the meetings somewhere that people can come from a 10-15 mile radius to get to. Like Pasadena ;-) -kevin On Feb 2, 2006, at 10:48 AM, Peter Benjamin wrote: > IMO, the LA PM mailing list should be the forum to make > the decision of how many PMs should be in LA. > > Towards that end I supply information for that argument. > > And to state I sure would like monthly meetings. > And I would drive to Ticketmaster from Santa Monica > for at least the first 3-6 meetings there. Why so > few? Read about the commute below. > > At 10:01 AM 2/2/2006, terry mcintyre wrote: >> I can, by the way, well imagine a place where traffic >> is worse than in Los Angeles. Try Pittsburgh during a >> snow storm -- it can take hours to travel 8 miles. >> Even >> an ordinary rush hour can cause an 8 mile commute to >> take over an hour. > > Well, LA has Pittsburgh beat then. The 10 Freeway > is still the busiest freeway in the world. It's > rush hour is from 2:30 to 7:30. I know. For the > LAMPsig.org meetings I travel from Santa Monica > to Hoover. On a normal "early" day it takes 20 minutes. > > This same 11 miles has taken me 1 hour, 1.5 hours > and 2 hours. It is terrible. And I bring the > video projector to the meeting, and must arrive > 15 minutes before to have time to set it up. > > The average time to go the 1 mile from my home office > to the 10 freeway is 20 minutes along Lincoln. > > The average time to travel from downtown Santa Monica > to the 405, a 5 mile stretch is 30 minutes or more. > Never less. So, the posters who make 'light' of that > short commute, should not. > > To get past the 405, on either the freeway or streets > is another 10 minutes, to go just 1 mile. Sometimes > 20 minutes on the street. Any accident or CHP parked > on the freeway causes the freeway to be 20 minutes. > Any accident on the 405 north or south causes this > 1 mile to get past the 405 to be 30 minutes. > > At that point on the freeway it speeds up, and getting > to an exit before Harbor Freeway is not much of a problem. > Erh, well, Hoover just before the interchange can take > 20 minutes to get off the freeway. So one gets off > at Vermont and goes north several miles before cutting > over to Hoover. > > Now getting off at Fairfax to go north... no brainer... > never do it. It necks down to one lane, and to get > to Ticketmaster on Fairfax means adding 2 hours. > Yes, 2 hours to go 3 miles. (I made that mistake > only once.) > > So, La Brea or La Cienega are the only alternatives. > 20 minutes minimum to go north to Melrose. I have > a client on Melrose, so I know. That is, if you > take the parking lane at speed. Otherwise, about 35 > minutes. > > So, minimum time from Santa Monica to Ticketmaster > is 70 minutes. Of stop and go. Average would be > about 90 minutes. Sometimes it would be 2 hours. > > After that, one is in no mood to sit some more, and > no mood to "network" with fellow mongers. A cool > down of 20 minutes is needed. So leaving work > at least 90 minutes early is needed. And eating > dinner needs to be added. > > To be consistently there on time, and in a good > mood means leaving work 3 hours before the meeting > or before 4:00. And half the time that will mean > getting there 30-45 minutes early with nothing to > do but wait. > > It is a problem. > > -- > > One solution is to have a pre dinner event there > for those with the long commute, where it is known > we must wind down, relax, eat a slow meal, and just > exchange knowing looks that no one is a talking mood. > > Is there a restaurant in the area where parking is > free enough to not have to move it to go to Ticketmaster? > > -- > > It is wrong to not have LA metro have two or more Monger > groups. We have almost a dozen LUGs. www.LALUGS.org > > I've written this long post just to make that point. > > Comparing LA to London, that has been done on this list > as well now. I think it can be agreed there is no > comparing the two cities as being "commute similar." > > The entire thread, when done, can be mailed to the PM master > for review. > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm From naterajj at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 11:26:54 2006 From: naterajj at gmail.com (Juan Jose Natera) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:26:54 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <0e7192ff3020b6522c02614d58536e95@scaldeferri.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060202102240.04a9a158@peterbenjamin.com> <0e7192ff3020b6522c02614d58536e95@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: <349627440602021126j212a14b9qbefa72abe169647f@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I believe it's easier for most to commit a weekday evening to attend to a PM meeting, however, I suggest doing the meetings on the weekends, traffic is much lighter and it would help those of us with a longer commutes to attend. Best regards, JJ From allenday at ucla.edu Thu Feb 2 11:31:44 2006 From: allenday at ucla.edu (Allen Day) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:31:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <0e7192ff3020b6522c02614d58536e95@scaldeferri.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060202102240.04a9a158@peterbenjamin.com> <0e7192ff3020b6522c02614d58536e95@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: In my experience, Pasadena is more accessible from the West side than Hollywood. IIRC, at the time of day the meetings are scheduled (~8pm), the freeways are much less congested than the surface, even on weekdays. The main problem with Hollywood is that there is no easy freeway access. It may be closer to West LA measured in distance, but measured in driving time it is further away than, say, Alhambra. -Allen On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > Only half joking... > > This pretty much makes it sound like the situation for those on > Westside is utterly hopeless unless the meeting is essentially at their > work (which clearly can't work for everyone). So, probably we should > just give up on that crowd entirely and make the meetings somewhere > that people can come from a 10-15 mile radius to get to. > > > Like Pasadena ;-) > > > -kevin > > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 10:48 AM, Peter Benjamin wrote: > > > IMO, the LA PM mailing list should be the forum to make > > the decision of how many PMs should be in LA. > > > > Towards that end I supply information for that argument. > > > > And to state I sure would like monthly meetings. > > And I would drive to Ticketmaster from Santa Monica > > for at least the first 3-6 meetings there. Why so > > few? Read about the commute below. > > > > At 10:01 AM 2/2/2006, terry mcintyre wrote: > >> I can, by the way, well imagine a place where traffic > >> is worse than in Los Angeles. Try Pittsburgh during a > >> snow storm -- it can take hours to travel 8 miles. > >> Even > >> an ordinary rush hour can cause an 8 mile commute to > >> take over an hour. > > > > Well, LA has Pittsburgh beat then. The 10 Freeway > > is still the busiest freeway in the world. It's > > rush hour is from 2:30 to 7:30. I know. For the > > LAMPsig.org meetings I travel from Santa Monica > > to Hoover. On a normal "early" day it takes 20 minutes. > > > > This same 11 miles has taken me 1 hour, 1.5 hours > > and 2 hours. It is terrible. And I bring the > > video projector to the meeting, and must arrive > > 15 minutes before to have time to set it up. > > > > The average time to go the 1 mile from my home office > > to the 10 freeway is 20 minutes along Lincoln. > > > > The average time to travel from downtown Santa Monica > > to the 405, a 5 mile stretch is 30 minutes or more. > > Never less. So, the posters who make 'light' of that > > short commute, should not. > > > > To get past the 405, on either the freeway or streets > > is another 10 minutes, to go just 1 mile. Sometimes > > 20 minutes on the street. Any accident or CHP parked > > on the freeway causes the freeway to be 20 minutes. > > Any accident on the 405 north or south causes this > > 1 mile to get past the 405 to be 30 minutes. > > > > At that point on the freeway it speeds up, and getting > > to an exit before Harbor Freeway is not much of a problem. > > Erh, well, Hoover just before the interchange can take > > 20 minutes to get off the freeway. So one gets off > > at Vermont and goes north several miles before cutting > > over to Hoover. > > > > Now getting off at Fairfax to go north... no brainer... > > never do it. It necks down to one lane, and to get > > to Ticketmaster on Fairfax means adding 2 hours. > > Yes, 2 hours to go 3 miles. (I made that mistake > > only once.) > > > > So, La Brea or La Cienega are the only alternatives. > > 20 minutes minimum to go north to Melrose. I have > > a client on Melrose, so I know. That is, if you > > take the parking lane at speed. Otherwise, about 35 > > minutes. > > > > So, minimum time from Santa Monica to Ticketmaster > > is 70 minutes. Of stop and go. Average would be > > about 90 minutes. Sometimes it would be 2 hours. > > > > After that, one is in no mood to sit some more, and > > no mood to "network" with fellow mongers. A cool > > down of 20 minutes is needed. So leaving work > > at least 90 minutes early is needed. And eating > > dinner needs to be added. > > > > To be consistently there on time, and in a good > > mood means leaving work 3 hours before the meeting > > or before 4:00. And half the time that will mean > > getting there 30-45 minutes early with nothing to > > do but wait. > > > > It is a problem. > > > > -- > > > > One solution is to have a pre dinner event there > > for those with the long commute, where it is known > > we must wind down, relax, eat a slow meal, and just > > exchange knowing looks that no one is a talking mood. > > > > Is there a restaurant in the area where parking is > > free enough to not have to move it to go to Ticketmaster? > > > > -- > > > > It is wrong to not have LA metro have two or more Monger > > groups. We have almost a dozen LUGs. www.LALUGS.org > > > > I've written this long post just to make that point. > > > > Comparing LA to London, that has been done on this list > > as well now. I think it can be agreed there is no > > comparing the two cities as being "commute similar." > > > > The entire thread, when done, can be mailed to the PM master > > for review. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From pete at peterbenjamin.com Thu Feb 2 11:57:02 2006 From: pete at peterbenjamin.com (Peter Benjamin) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:57:02 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.2.20060202085624.034569b8@mail.webquarry.com> <20060202180147.61592.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060202102240.04a9a158@peterbenjamin.com> <0e7192ff3020b6522c02614d58536e95@scaldeferri.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202114620.04aa5f18@peterbenjamin.com> At 11:31 AM 2/2/2006, Allen Day wrote: >IIRC, at the time of day the meetings are scheduled (~8pm), >the freeways are much less congested than the surface, even on weekdays. A meeting start time of 8 pm is much better for me. Leaving Santa Monica at 7:15 near the end of rush hour means I could get to Ticketmaster in 40 minutes, cutting in half the commute time, no stress of stop and go, just normal freeway, and semi normal street traffic (near Ticketmaster). >In my experience, Pasadena is more accessible from the West side than >Hollywood. It can be. The drive past downtown LA can be done in under 20 minutes, looping either to the north or south, and sometimes cutting through the middle if there are accidents. At least the fumes are much less and scenery is more colorful. I would go to Pasadena for an 8 PM meeting, but not a 7 pm meeting. I'm coming from Santa Monica. 7 pm means leaving at 5 pm and starting dinner at 3:30 to 4. An 8 pm meeting means a normal work day for me with dinner prep starting at 5:30, and leaving at 7:15. I would still catch the 10/405 interchange traffic, but not much in the downtown interchanges, due to the delay at the 405. >The main problem with Hollywood is that there is no easy freeway access. >It may be closer to West LA measured in distance, but measured in driving >time it is further away than, say, Alhambra. nodding agreement. From arkadiy at arkadiy.com Thu Feb 2 12:47:33 2006 From: arkadiy at arkadiy.com (Arkadiy) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:47:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6C7A201B-3469-4B6D-BA6C-D394B51AB358@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060202204733.15971.qmail@web315.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> KTown. I work in Westlake Village. So, uh... I can attend thousand-oaks.pm and as far as LA.pm is concerned... I don't care where it is, as long as I know about it in advance. I'd even suggest merging thousand-oaks.pm into LA.pm --- Jeff wrote: > While we are discussing this, why don't we first > find out each group > member's location? > > Me -- Arcadia > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > > > > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 2:52 AM, Allen Day wrote: > > > >> > >> On Wed, 1 Feb 2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > >> > >>> I find this whole debate to be interesting. As > many of you already > >>> know, > >>> Ticketmaster is based out of West Hollywood. One > issue that has > >>> repeatedly > >>> come up when discussing using our location as a > venue for events is > >>> that > >>> we're not easily accessible. Granted the > commuting in-and-out on > >>> surface > >>> streets can be an issue, but I think there is a > bigger problem. > >>> It is > >>> simply > >>> true that LA is big enough that it poses > significant obstacles to > >>> people > >>> consistently attending certain events when you > have to cross the > >>> entire > >>> length of a city of this size. For instance, I > find any event in > >>> Santa > >>> Monica to be totally inaccessible! > >> > >> I agree with this. I commute between Culver City > and Westwood, and > >> sadly > >> find the Hollywood meetings impossible to attend. > I have yet to > >> attend a > >> Linux Movies meeting after > 4 years of receiving > announcements for > >> them. > >> > > > > Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see > one person who > > works > > in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another > basically vice-versa. I > > mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? Hardly "the > entire length of the > > city". > > > > Do folks realize that people used to come from > *Irvine* to attend > > LAJUG > > meetings in Pasadena? > > > > It starts to sound like the problem is really that > people aren't all > > that interested in having a group (or that their > interest isn't being > > engaged), rather than that there is a problem with > location. > > > > I'm sorry to pick on people, and I hope you don't > take it personally, > > but I really think that the root problem isn't > where the meetings are > > or aren't located. > > > > > > -kevin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From allenday at ucla.edu Thu Feb 2 14:18:32 2006 From: allenday at ucla.edu (Allen Day) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:18:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6C7A201B-3469-4B6D-BA6C-D394B51AB358@yahoo.com> References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> <6C7A201B-3469-4B6D-BA6C-D394B51AB358@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Or plot yourself here: http://www.wooly.org/geodas/LA.pm.cgi -Allen On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Jeff wrote: > While we are discussing this, why don't we first find out each group > member's location? > > Me -- Arcadia > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > > > > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 2:52 AM, Allen Day wrote: > > > >> > >> On Wed, 1 Feb 2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > >> > >>> I find this whole debate to be interesting. As many of you already > >>> know, > >>> Ticketmaster is based out of West Hollywood. One issue that has > >>> repeatedly > >>> come up when discussing using our location as a venue for events is > >>> that > >>> we're not easily accessible. Granted the commuting in-and-out on > >>> surface > >>> streets can be an issue, but I think there is a bigger problem. > >>> It is > >>> simply > >>> true that LA is big enough that it poses significant obstacles to > >>> people > >>> consistently attending certain events when you have to cross the > >>> entire > >>> length of a city of this size. For instance, I find any event in > >>> Santa > >>> Monica to be totally inaccessible! > >> > >> I agree with this. I commute between Culver City and Westwood, and > >> sadly > >> find the Hollywood meetings impossible to attend. I have yet to > >> attend a > >> Linux Movies meeting after > 4 years of receiving announcements for > >> them. > >> > > > > Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see one person who > > works > > in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another basically vice-versa. I > > mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? Hardly "the entire length of the > > city". > > > > Do folks realize that people used to come from *Irvine* to attend > > LAJUG > > meetings in Pasadena? > > > > It starts to sound like the problem is really that people aren't all > > that interested in having a group (or that their interest isn't being > > engaged), rather than that there is a problem with location. > > > > I'm sorry to pick on people, and I hope you don't take it personally, > > but I really think that the root problem isn't where the meetings are > > or aren't located. > > > > > > -kevin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From rower at movieeditor.com Thu Feb 2 13:35:50 2006 From: rower at movieeditor.com (Robin Rowe) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:35:50 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060201224204.049c4cd0@peterbenjamin.com> References: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060201224204.049c4cd0@peterbenjamin.com> Message-ID: <43E27B36.3000903@movieeditor.com> Peter, > What I did not know was Robin was a monger. > Welcome to the group. Thanks for your kind words about me and LinuxMovies.org! Perl is widespread in the film industry. Studio production pipelines for animation and visual effects are based on Perl or Python. Robin From pete at peterbenjamin.com Thu Feb 2 15:31:37 2006 From: pete at peterbenjamin.com (Peter Benjamin) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:31:37 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <43E27B36.3000903@movieeditor.com> References: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060201224204.049c4cd0@peterbenjamin.com> <43E27B36.3000903@movieeditor.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202152906.040ec5e8@peterbenjamin.com> At 01:35 PM 2/2/2006, Robin Rowe wrote: >Thanks for your kind words about me and LinuxMovies.org! Perl is >widespread in the film industry. Studio production pipelines for >animation and visual effects are based on Perl or Python. Perl is also used for genetic DNA comparison and for astronomy electronic imagining comparison for detecting movement in the sky between two pictures taken at different times. Our planet is at risk for asteroid collision. UUASC had a great presentation on how Perl is used to track and find new asteroids. From allenday at ucla.edu Thu Feb 2 16:23:37 2006 From: allenday at ucla.edu (Allen Day) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:23:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202152906.040ec5e8@peterbenjamin.com> References: <43E15B7A.8000206@movieeditor.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060201224204.049c4cd0@peterbenjamin.com> <43E27B36.3000903@movieeditor.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060202152906.040ec5e8@peterbenjamin.com> Message-ID: Yep, I am using it for Human genomic analysis, along the lines of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligonucleotide_microarray -Allen On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Peter Benjamin wrote: > At 01:35 PM 2/2/2006, Robin Rowe wrote: > >Thanks for your kind words about me and LinuxMovies.org! Perl is > >widespread in the film industry. Studio production pipelines for > >animation and visual effects are based on Perl or Python. > > Perl is also used for genetic DNA comparison > and for astronomy electronic imagining comparison > for detecting movement in the sky between two > pictures taken at different times. > > Our planet is at risk for asteroid collision. > UUASC had a great presentation on how Perl > is used to track and find new asteroids. > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From allenday at ucla.edu Thu Feb 2 16:27:10 2006 From: allenday at ucla.edu (Allen Day) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:27:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> <6C7A201B-3469-4B6D-BA6C-D394B51AB358@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've taken the liberty to plot (in white) several of the shops in the area I see mentioned on this list. I just did a WHOIS on the domains. - Rent.com - Shopzilla.com - Citysearch.com - Ticketmaster.com - Google.com Santa Monica Let me know if you'd like a to add a white pushpin -- maybe we can use this to select meeting locations in the future. -Allen On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Allen Day wrote: > Or plot yourself here: > > http://www.wooly.org/geodas/LA.pm.cgi > > -Allen > > > On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Jeff wrote: > > > While we are discussing this, why don't we first find out each group > > member's location? > > > > Me -- Arcadia > > > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Kevin Scaldeferri wrote: > > > > > > > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 2:52 AM, Allen Day wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> On Wed, 1 Feb 2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > > >> > > >>> I find this whole debate to be interesting. As many of you already > > >>> know, > > >>> Ticketmaster is based out of West Hollywood. One issue that has > > >>> repeatedly > > >>> come up when discussing using our location as a venue for events is > > >>> that > > >>> we're not easily accessible. Granted the commuting in-and-out on > > >>> surface > > >>> streets can be an issue, but I think there is a bigger problem. > > >>> It is > > >>> simply > > >>> true that LA is big enough that it poses significant obstacles to > > >>> people > > >>> consistently attending certain events when you have to cross the > > >>> entire > > >>> length of a city of this size. For instance, I find any event in > > >>> Santa > > >>> Monica to be totally inaccessible! > > >> > > >> I agree with this. I commute between Culver City and Westwood, and > > >> sadly > > >> find the Hollywood meetings impossible to attend. I have yet to > > >> attend a > > >> Linux Movies meeting after > 4 years of receiving announcements for > > >> them. > > >> > > > > > > Personally, I find it a little mindboggling to see one person who > > > works > > > in WeHo and can't make it to SM, and another basically vice-versa. I > > > mean, that's what, 5 or 6 miles? Hardly "the entire length of the > > > city". > > > > > > Do folks realize that people used to come from *Irvine* to attend > > > LAJUG > > > meetings in Pasadena? > > > > > > It starts to sound like the problem is really that people aren't all > > > that interested in having a group (or that their interest isn't being > > > engaged), rather than that there is a problem with location. > > > > > > I'm sorry to pick on people, and I hope you don't take it personally, > > > but I really think that the root problem isn't where the meetings are > > > or aren't located. > > > > > > > > > -kevin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Losangeles-pm mailing list > > > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From pete at peterbenjamin.com Thu Feb 2 15:44:42 2006 From: pete at peterbenjamin.com (Peter Benjamin) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:44:42 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> <6C7A201B-3469-4B6D-BA6C-D394B51AB358@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202154222.04bd4298@peterbenjamin.com> At 02:18 PM 2/2/2006, Allen Day wrote: >Or plot yourself here: > >http://www.wooly.org/geodas/LA.pm.cgi Great. Now I do not have to summarize everyone's location posts. However, it did not take my submission, even after I zoomed. And no one else is present? What's up? When it works, could someone add Ticketmaster's location? And even where our past meetings have been? Do you have code to share? From Todd.Cranston-Cuebas at Ticketmaster.com Thu Feb 2 16:28:14 2006 From: Todd.Cranston-Cuebas at Ticketmaster.com (Todd Cranston-Cuebas) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:28:14 -0800 Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org Message-ID: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA722@pasmail3.office.tmcs> All, Let's plan then that the next meeting will be held here at Ticketmaster. We can all duke it out that night ;) I'm still talking with people about the actual technical presentation but promise to have something fully nailed out by end of next week for a meeting at the end of the month. Todd > -----Original Message----- > From: losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org > [mailto:losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Benjamin > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:10 AM > To: Los Angeles Perl Mongers > Subject: Re: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org > > At 11:09 PM 2/1/2006, Todd Cranston-Cuebas wrote: > >The only issue is that if we try to start having guest > speakers, etc. > >it's really hard to just have people "show up." I'll need some > >guestimate of the number of people coming to figure out the space. > >Also, if I try and get a speaker, they typically want to > know about how > >many people they'll be talking to. I guess it's a matter of whether > >things stay highly informal, or if the tech talks are more > >orchestrated. Orchestration requires some stability in > attendance, etc. > > > >I'm not sure that I have the perfect answer to the location issue. > > Todd you understand the situation pretty well. > I've been running user groups and the like for over 10 years > now, and the venue is the largest issue, with enough seating, > parking, directions, lobby access, locked doors, and a ton of issues. > > Point I wish to make is to at least have one meeting at a > location before trying to make any decisions about future > meetings in the same location. This applies to any location. > > Once everyone has seen the location, then the postings tend > to be solution oriented, instead of pointing out potential > problems of an unseen place. > > So, I would vote for Todd understanding we would only have > "one" meeting at his graciously offered venue. > > Then we can talk about future meetings, regular meetings, > scheduling speakers. And if Todd can continue offering the > same venue for meetings or not, is something Todd can speak > on at that time. > > It would be cool if the time was right for monthly LA > meetings, at first one venue seating 20, then due to stand up > room only, we changed venues to something that held 60, then > a few months later to another venue holding 100... > > On the hand, this group's tradition for meetings... > > And I see that is where Robin might be of great insight. > He has seen a lot of venues. He has contacts. More than > anyone else I know in LA. I do not know everyone in LA, so > this is not too unusual. > > _______________________________________________ > Losangeles-pm mailing list > Losangeles-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm > From allenday at ucla.edu Thu Feb 2 16:48:00 2006 From: allenday at ucla.edu (Allen Day) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:48:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LA.pm] Fwd: hollywood.pm.org In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060202154222.04bd4298@peterbenjamin.com> References: <71D28C8451BFD5119B2B00508BE26E640BDBA718@pasmail3.office.tmcs> <96447a94501cb2a5eed5cd3c6fb1716c@scaldeferri.com> <6C7A201B-3469-4B6D-BA6C-D394B51AB358@yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20060202154222.04bd4298@peterbenjamin.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Peter Benjamin wrote: > At 02:18 PM 2/2/2006, Allen Day wrote: > >Or plot yourself here: > > > >http://www.wooly.org/geodas/LA.pm.cgi > > > Great. Now I do not have to summarize everyone's location posts. Yeah, that was the point :-) > > However, it did not take my submission, even after I zoomed. > And no one else is present? > > What's up? Some weird thing with the GMaps API. Sometimes the