[LA.pm] contrasting London and LA

Tue Aug 15 10:29:14 PDT 2006

As a _user_ more than a programmer, I have to say that
over the last 15 years I've seen many usage arguments
for various languages.  I consider myself a Perl
monger as a user and integrator, certainly not a
programmer, and I'm personally excited to see Perl 6
(which, by the way, I believe is a mostly transparent
change when it comes to language features) start
reaching the production environment in major
companies.  

I've worked with Java this last year on a level I'd
never had before in an online banking environment. 
All our Configuration Management tasks are automated
and controlled by Perl.  All our applications are
J2EE.  I see that as perfect symbiosis.  Nobody ever
suggested we use Java for the CM tasks - well, I
explored the notion then discounted it due to detailed
requirements analysis.

What I would say in response to this anecdote is, if
detailed requirements were written and it was
determined that in fact Java was the most useful
language for their task, then great!  I don't believe
the availability of coders in a language has any part
in such a decision, though.  Never discount a language
as useful, either.  As a systems integrator, I see the
value of multiple languages at work every day.

- CB

--- Eric Gradman <ehgrad at yahoo-inc.com> wrote:

> When I was a Perl Monger at Oversee.net, I conducted
> a sobering  
> interview.  We had a candidate come in the door with
> a strong command  
> of Perl (a rare event to be sure).  During the
> interview it came out  
> that he was learning Java.  I asked him why, and he
> explained that  
> former colleagues at Idealab had complained that due
> to the extreme  
> difficulty of finding competent Perl programmers,
> they were  
> increasingly starting new development projects in
> Java.  My jaw  
> dropped, and I spent the rest of the interview in
> shock.
> 
> Personally, I'm avoiding learning anything at all
> about Perl 6... I  
> worry that if I fall in love with new language
> features that I can't  
> use in a production environment for a decade, I'll
> have switch to a  
> different language that scratches that itch.  And
> despite their  
> faults, Python and Ruby have a lot of compelling
> features.
> 
> On Aug 14, 2006, at 12:59 PM, Todd Cranston-Cuebas
> wrote:
> 
> > While perl is very popular in LA, we should note
> that I'm hearing  
> > that perl
> > is being supplanted in a number of industries by
> languages like  
> > Python. For
> > example, python used more and more for movie
> industry "pipelining"
> > applications where images are pipelined through
> image processors  
> > until they
> > are then consolidated again for the final
> production. I've heard  
> > that this
> > industry was mostly perl and now may be as much
> 50/50 perl/python.  
> > The perl
> > foundation has to take this type of a shift
> seriously. I think each  
> > engineer
> > thinks in terms of their own, individual needs
> (which is  
> > understandable),
> > but the perl foundation needs to see perl in the
> context of a changing
> > industry. I know that they are and do take these
> points seriously. I
> > recently met with two perl foundation members to
> discuss this very  
> > point.
> >
> > I only mentioned ruby on rails in an earlier post
> since many people  
> > "stick"
> > with the language that scratched their earliest
> itches. This was  
> > clearly the
> > case for many PHP people. If perl is the language
> of choice only  
> > for ad-hoc
> > automation scripts or large-scale, complex
> solutions on the other  
> > extreme,
> > then you run the risk of having your potential
> "new blood" siphoned  
> > off by
> > other technologies that allow for the building of
> modest, but complete
> > solutions with lower learning curves. All
> groups/organizations/ 
> > entities need
> > to think in terms of the overall "health" of the
> community (e.g.,
> > maintaining a flow of new members, satisfying the
> needs of existing  
> > members,
> > etc.).
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org
> >>
>
[mailto:losangeles-pm-bounces+tcc=ticketmaster.com at pm.org]
> On
> >> Behalf Of Eric Hammond
> >> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 12:26 PM
> >> To: James Pitts
> >> Cc: losangeles-pm at pm.org
> >> Subject: Re: [LA.pm] contrasting London and LA
> >>
> >> James Pitts wrote:
> >>> Perl seems to be a strong thread throughout the
> Idealabs companies.
> >>> For those of you who worked at Shopzilla, eToys,
> and Citysearch, do
> >>> you know any of the history about how Bill
> Gross' companies became
> >>> perl shops? Was there a perl advocate from
> Caltech or JPL on the
> >>> Idealabs staff?
> >>
> >> I am pretty sure I can take credit for being the
> first Perl
> >> advocate at the first Idealab company.  I was one
> of the
> >> first technology folks hired at Citysearch and
> was writing
> >> and pushing Perl there in July 1996.
> >> I was previously coding Perl (and C, C++, etc) in
> Cincinnati
> >> before Caskey (18 at the time) asked me to move
> to LA for Citysearch.
> >>
> >> Though the Citysearch development team was not
> able to switch
> >> the front end to Perl until after I left, we did
> code large
> >> chunks of the back end in Perl and ended up with
> quite a few
> >> Perl lovers who spread out to other companies in
> the area.
> >> In particular two groups of developers left
> Citysearch and
> >> went to eToys (an Idealab company) and Rent.com
> (not an
> >> Idealab company).
> >>
> >> I don't know how Perl became popular at other
> Idealab
> >> companies and the rest of LA.  I'm sure it wasn't
> any one
> >> person's influence unless you count Larry.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Eric Hammond
> >> ehammond at thinksome.com
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Losangeles-pm at pm.org
> >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/losangeles-pm
> >>
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> >
> >
> 
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> 

Regards,

Christian Bryant
A Los Angeles Perl Monger
http://la.pm.org/
Phone:  818-519-1880
E-mail:  perl.monger at yahoo.com

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