From rprice at freeshell.org Tue Jun 1 23:44:34 2004 From: rprice at freeshell.org (rprice@freeshell.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Scanning Linux logfiles for dropouts In-Reply-To: <200405291923.00490.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> References: <200405291923.00490.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: Hi, I just finished a perl program which will detect the dropout of a pattern in a syslog type file. Basically you specify the logfile, program, repeat period and pattern, and if the pattern fails to show up on time, it syslogs the failure. I use logcheck on Debian, so I wouldn't want it to email me the info, but if someone wanted to add that feature, it would hardly be difficult. I just finished it tonight, so I should let it run for good couple of days to make sure it's working before I inflict it on anyone else, but I'd be happy to share it with anyone who wanted it. My usage is to ensure that various BoxBackup clients that backup to my machine, in fact do so within a reasonable time period. But it would be useful to check on any periodic thing that you would like to watch. For instance, did my backup actually run each night?, if it failed, you'd know about it, but what if it failed to run at all, you wouldn't get a syslog entry for that... Have Fun Rick On Sat, 29 May 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > > What I want is to be able to detect that one of the clients has not called > > in during some relevant time period. > > > Any ideas? > > grep out the entries you want and use the date modules to calculate deltas > between entries... sound an alarm if the delta is greater than some preset... > > -A. > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From da at coder.com Thu Jun 3 00:04:17 2004 From: da at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Scanning Linux logfiles for dropouts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes please... I'm curious. Sounds like 'heartbeat' for logfiles... On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 rprice@freeshell.org wrote: > Hi, > > I just finished a perl program which will detect the dropout of a pattern > in a syslog type file. > > > Basically you specify the logfile, program, repeat period and pattern, and > if the pattern fails to show up on time, it syslogs the failure. > > I use logcheck on Debian, so I wouldn't want it to email me the info, but > if someone wanted to add that feature, it would hardly be difficult. > > > I just finished it tonight, so I should let it run for good couple of days > to make sure it's working before I inflict it on anyone else, but I'd be > happy to share it with anyone who wanted it. > > > My usage is to ensure that various BoxBackup clients that backup to my > machine, in fact do so within a reasonable time period. > > But it would be useful to check on any periodic thing that you would like > to watch. For instance, did my backup actually run each night?, if it > failed, you'd know about it, but what if it failed to run at all, you > wouldn't get a syslog entry for that... > > Have Fun > Rick > > > On Sat, 29 May 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > > > > What I want is to be able to detect that one of the clients has not called > > > in during some relevant time period. > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > grep out the entries you want and use the date modules to calculate deltas > > between entries... sound an alarm if the delta is greater than some preset... > > > > -A. > > _______________________________________________ > > kw-pm mailing list > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From da at coder.com Thu Jun 3 00:06:54 2004 From: da at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] YAPC / June- meet? Message-ID: YAPC (Yet Another Perl Conference) is approaching fast- less than two weeks (Wed. June 16-Fri. June 18) in Buffalo. I've been asked by the Perl Cabal to send out one last reminder. Registration is still $85 US for the three-day conference, which is an educational bargain even if you can only make one or two days of it. Get more info at http://yapc.org/ So far as I know, Shuchit and I will be representing K/W- if anybody is on the fence about going, let me know and I can try to tip you one way or the other. :-) Or see: http://www.yapc.org/America/program.shtml#fence As I mentioned before, our regular June meeting falls during YAPC. As I recall, Arguile was possibly heading up hosting us at Theatre and Company. I'll probably be all perl'd out the week after YAPC, so I suspect it's better if somebody else helps plan if we want to meet in June. -- http://coder.com/ - Prescient Code Solutions - (519) 575-3733 da@coder.com From rprice at freeshell.org Thu Jun 3 21:20:46 2004 From: rprice at freeshell.org (rprice@freeshell.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Scanning Linux logfiles for dropouts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here goes :). This is not overly tested, or tested in different environments, but it does seem to work fine on Debian. If someone makes improvements patches, I wouldn't mind getting them back. Perhaps if it proves popular, I will put it on sourceforge... Rick On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > Yes please... I'm curious. Sounds like 'heartbeat' for logfiles... > > On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 rprice@freeshell.org wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I just finished a perl program which will detect the dropout of a pattern > > in a syslog type file. > > > > > > Basically you specify the logfile, program, repeat period and pattern, and > > if the pattern fails to show up on time, it syslogs the failure. > > > > I use logcheck on Debian, so I wouldn't want it to email me the info, but > > if someone wanted to add that feature, it would hardly be difficult. > > > > > > I just finished it tonight, so I should let it run for good couple of days > > to make sure it's working before I inflict it on anyone else, but I'd be > > happy to share it with anyone who wanted it. > > > > > > My usage is to ensure that various BoxBackup clients that backup to my > > machine, in fact do so within a reasonable time period. > > > > But it would be useful to check on any periodic thing that you would like > > to watch. For instance, did my backup actually run each night?, if it > > failed, you'd know about it, but what if it failed to run at all, you > > wouldn't get a syslog entry for that... > > > > Have Fun > > Rick > > > > > > On Sat, 29 May 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > > > > > > What I want is to be able to detect that one of the clients has not called > > > > in during some relevant time period. > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > grep out the entries you want and use the date modules to calculate deltas > > > between entries... sound an alarm if the delta is greater than some preset... > > > > > > -A. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kw-pm mailing list > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dropout_tracker.tgz Type: application/x-gtar Size: 3106 bytes Desc: Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040603/b5b1cf37/dropout_tracker.gtar From rprice at freeshell.org Mon Jun 7 17:59:27 2004 From: rprice at freeshell.org (rprice@freeshell.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Scanning Linux logfiles for dropouts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Daniel, Did you ever get a chance to look at the program? Rick On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > Yes please... I'm curious. Sounds like 'heartbeat' for logfiles... > > On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 rprice@freeshell.org wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I just finished a perl program which will detect the dropout of a pattern > > in a syslog type file. > > > > > > Basically you specify the logfile, program, repeat period and pattern, and > > if the pattern fails to show up on time, it syslogs the failure. > > > > I use logcheck on Debian, so I wouldn't want it to email me the info, but > > if someone wanted to add that feature, it would hardly be difficult. > > > > > > I just finished it tonight, so I should let it run for good couple of days > > to make sure it's working before I inflict it on anyone else, but I'd be > > happy to share it with anyone who wanted it. > > > > > > My usage is to ensure that various BoxBackup clients that backup to my > > machine, in fact do so within a reasonable time period. > > > > But it would be useful to check on any periodic thing that you would like > > to watch. For instance, did my backup actually run each night?, if it > > failed, you'd know about it, but what if it failed to run at all, you > > wouldn't get a syslog entry for that... > > > > Have Fun > > Rick > > > > > > On Sat, 29 May 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > > > > > > What I want is to be able to detect that one of the clients has not called > > > > in during some relevant time period. > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > grep out the entries you want and use the date modules to calculate deltas > > > between entries... sound an alarm if the delta is greater than some preset... > > > > > > -A. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kw-pm mailing list > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From da at coder.com Mon Jun 7 18:28:09 2004 From: da at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Scanning Linux logfiles for dropouts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Heh. Free time, what's that? Sorry, haven't gotten to it yet. Did anybody else on the list take a look? (speaking personally, it's often like pulling teeth to get a code review- even if you ask for one- I believe there's a perl code review mailing list- if nobody knows it off-hand, I'll look it up...) -Daniel On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 rprice@freeshell.org wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > Did you ever get a chance to look at the program? > > Rick > > On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > > > Yes please... I'm curious. Sounds like 'heartbeat' for logfiles... > > > > On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 rprice@freeshell.org wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I just finished a perl program which will detect the dropout of a pattern > > > in a syslog type file. > > > > > > > > > Basically you specify the logfile, program, repeat period and pattern, and > > > if the pattern fails to show up on time, it syslogs the failure. > > > > > > I use logcheck on Debian, so I wouldn't want it to email me the info, but > > > if someone wanted to add that feature, it would hardly be difficult. > > > > > > > > > I just finished it tonight, so I should let it run for good couple of days > > > to make sure it's working before I inflict it on anyone else, but I'd be > > > happy to share it with anyone who wanted it. > > > > > > > > > My usage is to ensure that various BoxBackup clients that backup to my > > > machine, in fact do so within a reasonable time period. > > > > > > But it would be useful to check on any periodic thing that you would like > > > to watch. For instance, did my backup actually run each night?, if it > > > failed, you'd know about it, but what if it failed to run at all, you > > > wouldn't get a syslog entry for that... > > > > > > Have Fun > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 29 May 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > > > > > > > > What I want is to be able to detect that one of the clients has not called > > > > > in during some relevant time period. > > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > grep out the entries you want and use the date modules to calculate deltas > > > > between entries... sound an alarm if the delta is greater than some preset... > > > > > > > > -A. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > kw-pm mailing list > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Mon Jun 7 20:04:44 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Perl job available Message-ID: Hello, I know of someone who is looking to hire a mod_perl programmer. I was offered the job but turned it down because I am already happily employed with a ft job and a couple contracts. If anyone is interested, I can pass along the contact information. Regards, Rebecca From Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com Thu Jun 10 15:07:58 2004 From: Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com (Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Offering ride to YAPC::NA::2004 Message-ID: I'm heading down to YAPC in Buffalo via a rental and am happy to bring along others. I plan on hitting the road at 9pm on Tuesday evening heading straight to UBuff. I'm returning to Waterloo on Friday right after the conference closes, though we might stop for food to avoid traffic at the border. I have room for 3 going down (4 if you wanna become real-close friends with two others), and 2 coming back (3 with the same caveat). Please feel free to email me directly if you are interested, greg.fenton ---- Greg Fenton Consultant, Solution Services iAnywhere Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040610/fc26e541/attachment.htm From da at coder.com Tue Jun 15 22:29:23 2004 From: da at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] YAPC webcast Message-ID: Hello from Buffalo... this was posted on use.perl today: +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | YAPC::NA Webcast | | posted by KM on Tuesday June 15, @18:48 (yapc) | | http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/15/2228222 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ [0]cbrandtbuffalo writes "We're going to try to do a webcast of some YAPC sessions, so if you couldn't make it, check this out: [1]YAPC webcast. We're going to try to do a keynote, so check tomorrow morning (Wednesday) at 9PM EST. We'll post any other planned webcasts on the [2]conference kwiki." Discuss this story at: http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=04/06/15/2228222 Links: 0. http://yapc.org/America 1. http://raptor.pub.buffalo.edu/yapc/yapc-webcast.html 2. http://yapc.kwiki.org/ From dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org Mon Jun 21 09:37:06 2004 From: dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org (lloyd carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] How was YAPC? Message-ID: Well Daniel, how did it go? dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From eric at uc.org Mon Jun 21 16:35:52 2004 From: eric at uc.org (Eric - fishbot) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Introduction Message-ID: My name is Eric Maki, and I just recently moved back to the Waterloo area. I went to UW for my BMath Co-op, but the last few years have seen me in London, Hamilton and St. Catharines. I've attended a few to.pm meetings, and attended YAPC::CA last year. I was at YAPC::NA in Buffalo this year, and met a few of you there. I am eager to attend kw.pm meetings. I am also planning to attend Damian Conway's July 17th Perl 6 talk in Toronto. (http://to.pm.org/damian/) If anyone else is keen to attend, but wants or needs a ride, please let me know. Eric From daniel at coder.com Mon Jun 21 19:37:50 2004 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] How was YAPC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very briefly- it was a lot of fun. Shuchit and Greg- what do you say- how was YAPC? I hope to write up some of my notes by the end of the week, but for a teaser: Damian Conway's talk described a few neat CPAN modules in passing. These all look quite useful: IO::All IO::Prompt Perl6::Slurp Object::Dumper and, for the really weird: Lingua::EN::Autoinflect (which isn't on CPAN yet, but it will automatically overload all constants and re-define strings to convert nouns from singular to plural and make "a" and "an" agree automatically). ...Oh, and Nat Torkington liked my talk: http://use.perl.org/~gnat/journal/19351 :-) -Daniel -- http://coder.com/ - Prescient Code Solutions - (519) 575-3733 da@coder.com On Mon, 21 Jun 2004, lloyd carr wrote: > Well Daniel, how did it go? > > dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com Tue Jun 22 10:06:46 2004 From: Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com (Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] How was YAPC? Message-ID: This was my first YAPC. I found the experience most definitely worthwhile, and certainly will be attending future YAPC events. I think that anyone who works with Perl in their jobs would benefit by attending YAPC (and PM) events. ... And the price was extremely reasonable!! The folks at UBuffalo ran a great gig. Well organized, well equiped, good venue, proper amount of coffee... greg.fenton ---- Greg Fenton Consultant, Solution Services iAnywhere Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040622/7915a71a/attachment.htm From simon-kwpm at uc.org Tue Jun 22 12:21:12 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got all excited about them in #yapc last week. I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm rather terse, so it might be a short talk. re, Simon From dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org Tue Jun 22 17:24:08 2004 From: dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org (lloyd carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Welcome Simon. You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend our meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to our meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > re, > Simon > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From simon-kwpm at uc.org Tue Jun 22 17:48:13 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Considering that the time it takes me to go from my apartment in north york to union station by subway is 60 minutes, k/w is just around the corner! But it's more a social reason; interaction with some people who are hopefully doing something that I find interesting, because intellectually, I'm bored stiff here. re, S. On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, lloyd carr wrote: > Welcome Simon. > You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend our > meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to our > meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > re, > > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > > kw-pm mailing list > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Tue Jun 22 17:51:28 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come *here*. I live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I suppose it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p ~Rebecca >From: lloyd carr >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > >Welcome Simon. >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend our >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to our >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > re, > > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > > kw-pm mailing list > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org >_______________________________________________ >kw-pm mailing list >kw-pm@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm From simon-kwpm at uc.org Tue Jun 22 18:19:01 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What was working at Environment Canada like? One of my dream jobs would be working on weather forecasting using distributed computing. re, Simon On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come *here*. I > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I suppose > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > ~Rebecca > > > >From: lloyd carr > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > >Welcome Simon. > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend our > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to our > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > re, > > > Simon > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > >_______________________________________________ > >kw-pm mailing list > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > From arguile at lucentstudios.com Tue Jun 22 22:38:29 2004 From: arguile at lucentstudios.com (Arguile) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1087961909.492.121.camel@broadswd.local> On Tue, 2004-06-22 at 19:19, simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > What was working at Environment Canada like? > > One of my dream jobs would be working on weather forecasting using > distributed computing. Forecasting would be my dream job too, you get to be wrong 99% of the time and still get paid. ;) -- Arguile From dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org Wed Jun 23 04:24:06 2004 From: dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org (lloyd carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I don't think you'll be disappointed :-) -Lloyd On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:48:13 -0400 (EDT) > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > Considering that the time it takes me to go from my apartment in north > york to union station by subway is 60 minutes, k/w is just around the > corner! > > But it's more a social reason; interaction with some people who are > hopefully doing something that I find interesting, because > intellectually, I'm bored stiff here. > > re, > S. > > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, lloyd carr wrote: > > > Welcome Simon. > > You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend our > > meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to our > > meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > re, > > > Simon > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org Wed Jun 23 04:30:21 2004 From: dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org (lloyd carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh come on Rebecca, we all want to meet you. We can even overlook that php train thing ;-) -Lloyd On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:51:28 +0000 > From: Rebecca Anstett > To: dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org, simon-kwpm@uc.org > Cc: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come *here*. I > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I suppose > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > ~Rebecca > > > >From: lloyd carr > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > >Welcome Simon. > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend our > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to our > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > re, > > > Simon > > > _______________________________________________ > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > >_______________________________________________ > >kw-pm mailing list > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 07:41:49 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: We-lllll now that I don't have Wed eve classes, it's a distinct possibility ;) >Oh come on Rebecca, we all want to meet you. We can even overlook that php >train thing ;-) > >-Lloyd > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:51:28 +0000 > > From: Rebecca Anstett > > To: dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org, simon-kwpm@uc.org > > Cc: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come >*here*. I > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I >suppose > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > > > ~Rebecca > > > > > > >From: lloyd carr > > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > > > >Welcome Simon. > > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend >our > > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to >our > > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more >lucrative > > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested >in, > > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found >myself > > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining >unix > > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to >do. > > > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great >strides > > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat >got > > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, >I'm > > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > > > re, > > > > Simon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > >_______________________________________________ > > >kw-pm mailing list > > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 08:46:22 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406230946.22444.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Tuesday 22 June 2004 18:51, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come *here*. I > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I suppose > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p Very true. You and PHP deserve each other. Good riddance. :-) I'm from Listowel and have *presented*, so there! -A. From da at coder.com Wed Jun 23 08:47:43 2004 From: da at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Simon- did you get a chance to meet the guys from The Weather Channel? I sat next to them at the banquet dinner. I don't know if it's common knowledge, but they confirmed for me that yes, the satellite weather maps they show every 10-15 minutes come with data for Canada, and the very last step when the Weather Channel is producing the visuals (for the US market) they airbrush the Canada content out. But their website info is much more complete. When I'm in the States I hate having to extrapolate the weather here from Detroit and Buffalo. :-( -Daniel On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > What was working at Environment Canada like? > > One of my dream jobs would be working on weather forecasting using > distributed computing. > > re, > Simon > > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come *here*. I > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I suppose > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > > > ~Rebecca > > > > > > >From: lloyd carr > > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > > > >Welcome Simon. > > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend our > > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to our > > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more lucrative > > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested in, > > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found myself > > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining unix > > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to do. > > > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great strides > > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat got > > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, I'm > > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > > > re, > > > > Simon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > >_______________________________________________ > > >kw-pm mailing list > > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From daniel at coder.com Wed Jun 23 08:57:21 2004 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: <200406230946.22444.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: Er. If we exclude everybody who works with PHP, I'm afraid I'm out, too. :-> The funny thing is, there are a good number of well-written PHP apps for the web, which don't have free and open-source equivalents in perl. If anybody has a good "survey generation and administration tool" in perl, I'm all ears! -Daniel On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > On Tuesday 22 June 2004 18:51, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come *here*. I > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I suppose > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > Very true. You and PHP deserve each other. Good riddance. :-) > > I'm from Listowel and have *presented*, so there! > > -A. > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 09:00:28 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:35 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: Working at EC was amazing. I loved it, despite the fact that I wasn't so keen on the technology. The first time I worked there was in 1999 and I was working on the weather site (http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/) - lots of perl. The second time was Sept-Feb of this year, and it was completely a ColdFusion gig (ugh). Lots of ColdFusion. (I was managing the migration of their Intranet) Following this, I took a *real gem* - migrating a buttload of ASP to ColdFusion. This is something that just should not have happened! I think the main reason I've enjoyed my employment stints with EC so much is that I have a perhapsobscene fascination with weather! ~Rebecca >What was working at Environment Canada like? > >One of my dream jobs would be working on weather forecasting using >distributed computing. > >re, >Simon > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come >*here*. I > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I >suppose > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > > > ~Rebecca > > > > > > >From: lloyd carr > > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > > > >Welcome Simon. > > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend >our > > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to >our > > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more >lucrative > > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested >in, > > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found >myself > > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining >unix > > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to >do. > > > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great >strides > > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat >got > > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, >I'm > > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > > > re, > > > > Simon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > >_______________________________________________ > > >kw-pm mailing list > > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 09:01:49 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: :( I guess I also deserve ColdFusion then, and that's not a pleasant thought. >Very true. You and PHP deserve each other. Good riddance. :-) > >I'm from Listowel and have *presented*, so there! > >-A. >_______________________________________________ >kw-pm mailing list >kw-pm@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 09:12:33 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406231012.33724.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 09:57, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > Er. If we exclude everybody who works with PHP, I'm afraid I'm out, too. http://www.mixdown.ca/kb/ -- back in my PHP days... Long since forgotten (thankfully) -- It *is* a nice language, but man I find it *worse* than Perl for code entropy. > The funny thing is, there are a good number of well-written PHP apps for > the web, which don't have free and open-source equivalents in perl. Yes, but IMO they *all* suffer from the same basic problem: VERY messy. SquirrelMail. PHPbb. PHPGroupware. Flyspray. I can hack the code but lord does it seem to get messy in a hurry. PHP can separate content from presentation but it seems to encourage mixing it... Much like the tobacco companies "encourage" you to stop smoking with the digusting pictures and warnings but they're still selling it... -A. From Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com Wed Jun 23 09:19:54 2004 From: Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com (Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: Daniel, Not that I'm trying to promote PHP on the PM list...but which survey s/w are you using? As for PHP vs. Perl...when it comes to building hosted sites, most ISPs have no problem supporting mod_php but they freak at the idea of mod_perl or of constantly upgrading CPAN modules. So many folks turn to PHP to avoid writing complex CGIs. greg.fenton ---- Greg Fenton Consultant, Solution Services iAnywhere Solutions "Daniel R. Allen" Sent by: kw-pm-bounces@mail.pm.org 06/23/2004 09:57 AM To: Andrew Kohlsmith cc: kw-pm@mail.pm.org Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. Er. If we exclude everybody who works with PHP, I'm afraid I'm out, too. :-> The funny thing is, there are a good number of well-written PHP apps for the web, which don't have free and open-source equivalents in perl. If anybody has a good "survey generation and administration tool" in perl, I'm all ears! -Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040623/f611f978/attachment.htm From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 09:19:24 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406231019.24399.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> > :( I guess I also deserve ColdFusion then, and that's not a pleasant > thought. I don't know... It would take a LOT of misdeeds to deserve ColdFusion... Perhaps you're not telling us everything, hmm? :-) -A. From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 09:23:28 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: It's also many misdeeds that have brung me to the point that I have to work with this: http://ndbe.sourceforge.net/ *sigh* I'm going to hurt someone today. ~Rebecca From simon-kwpm at uc.org Wed Jun 23 09:34:40 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] weather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I fall in that weather boat too, ever since I had this cool idea... At some point as a child, my father suggested that a better way to forecast the weather would be to use small cell-based measurements -- each cell could communicate with it's neighbour cells, and make it's predictions. As time passed, the cells could use history, rather than fancy mathematical models to predict the weather. When he'd asked someone in the business about his idea, they'd said that yes, it was a very good idea -- but that they'd already invested millions in weather satellites and couldn't switch now. I wonder what the case is these days... While I was living in waterloo, way back in the year 2000, I wrote an extension to UCD SNMP (now net-snmp) for World Without Wire to allow it to get the signal/noise ratios from wireless cards. Well, these devices were being put on towers all over southern ontario, and had heaps of extra computing power. I was like "OMG, this is the PERFECT platform for environment conditions monitoring!!!" You would be able to poll the towers for their current weather conditions and their forecasts -- temperature, humidity, light levels, wind speed and direction, maybe even UV, greenhouse gasses. It would be fantastic. Alas, they didn't see a market for the data... But it would be a dream come true to implement this. Does anyone else think this would be a fantastic idea? Would Environment Canada, or any other organizations be interested in buying the data? Anyone written a business plan before? I know people that would fund a good plan... re, Simon On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > Working at EC was amazing. I loved it, despite the fact that I wasn't so > keen on the technology. The first time I worked there was in 1999 and I was > working on the weather site (http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/) - lots of perl. > The second time was Sept-Feb of this year, and it was completely a > ColdFusion gig (ugh). Lots of ColdFusion. (I was managing the migration of > their Intranet) Following this, I took a *real gem* - migrating a buttload > of ASP to ColdFusion. This is something that just should not have happened! > I think the main reason I've enjoyed my employment stints with EC so much is > that I have a perhapsobscene fascination with weather! > > ~Rebecca > > > >What was working at Environment Canada like? > > > >One of my dream jobs would be working on weather forecasting using > >distributed computing. > > > >re, > >Simon > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > > > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come > >*here*. I > > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I > >suppose > > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > > > > > ~Rebecca > > > > > > > > > >From: lloyd carr > > > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > > > > > >Welcome Simon. > > > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend > >our > > > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to > >our > > > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > > > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more > >lucrative > > > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested > >in, > > > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found > >myself > > > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining > >unix > > > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to > >do. > > > > > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great > >strides > > > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat > >got > > > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, > >I'm > > > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > > > > > re, > > > > > Simon > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >kw-pm mailing list > > > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > > > > From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 09:51:50 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406231051.50265.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 10:23, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > It's also many misdeeds that have brung me to the point that I have to work > with this: http://ndbe.sourceforge.net/ "The acronym NDBE stands for Neomueller DataBase Editor, or NDBE DataBase Editor if you think an open source project just has to have a bacronym for a name." bacronym? dict:bacronym doesn't find it and I can't seem to fit a 'b' word that makes sense. I always figured they were called recursive acronyms. -A. From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 09:58:33 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: >"The acronym NDBE stands for Neomueller DataBase Editor, or NDBE DataBase >Editor if you think an open source project just has to have a bacronym for >a >name." I've given it my own name: Not Dumb But Evil :) From Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com Wed Jun 23 10:05:46 2004 From: Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com (Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: Does this have something to do with the current slashdot poll? greg.fenton ---- Greg Fenton Consultant, Solution Services iAnywhere Solutions "Rebecca Anstett" Sent by: kw-pm-bounces@mail.pm.org 06/23/2004 10:58 AM To: akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com, kw-pm@mail.pm.org cc: Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. I've given it my own name: Not Dumb But Evil :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040623/38599dc4/attachment.htm From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 10:08:24 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: Nope, believe it or not. Hadn't even looked at the poll. I tend to come up with names for everything I have to work with that occasionally p1sses me off. Hence my nickname for php -> Poorly Hung Perl :) >From: Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com >To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. >Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:05:46 -0400 > >Does this have something to do with the current slashdot poll? > > >greg.fenton >---- >Greg Fenton >Consultant, Solution Services >iAnywhere Solutions > > > > >"Rebecca Anstett" >Sent by: kw-pm-bounces@mail.pm.org >06/23/2004 10:58 AM > > > To: akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com, kw-pm@mail.pm.org > cc: > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > >I've given it my own name: > >Not Dumb But Evil > >:) >_______________________________________________ >kw-pm mailing list >kw-pm@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 10:16:28 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406231116.28756.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 11:08, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > Hence my nickname for php -> Poorly Hung Perl Thank you. It's been some time since I spat my drink at a screen. This poor laptop's been getting abused. It's already a replacement; my ex-gf spilled a vodka cooler on it and despite my superb abilities to play dumb, IBM refused to repair it under warranty. "There seems to have been some kind of liquid spilled on it," they claimed. I dunno, it just stopped working one day. ;-) Oh -- http://www.mixdown.ca/~andrew/photos/t30/ -- the new range is far too warm to dry out keyboards, even on the coolest setting. -A. From Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com Wed Jun 23 10:26:19 2004 From: Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com (Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: Hey Andrew, You looking for a position in an IT department? (Does this ring of BOFH??) greg.fenton ---- Greg Fenton Consultant, Solution Services iAnywhere Solutions Andrew Kohlsmith Sent by: kw-pm-bounces@mail.pm.org 06/23/2004 11:16 AM To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org, "Rebecca Anstett" cc: Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. Oh -- http://www.mixdown.ca/~andrew/photos/t30/ -- the new range is far too warm to dry out keyboards, even on the coolest setting. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040623/e85dba37/attachment.htm From simon-kwpm at uc.org Wed Jun 23 10:31:22 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: <200406231116.28756.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> References: <200406231116.28756.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: Maybe you should have been patient, and let them air dry? For cuircuit boards, the best thing is a dishwasher with no soap, and the heat-dry cycle turned off. I used to run boards through the dishwasher to take off solder flux, worked great. re, Simon On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > On Wednesday 23 June 2004 11:08, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > Hence my nickname for php -> Poorly Hung Perl > > Thank you. It's been some time since I spat my drink at a screen. > > This poor laptop's been getting abused. It's already a replacement; my ex-gf > spilled a vodka cooler on it and despite my superb abilities to play dumb, > IBM refused to repair it under warranty. > > "There seems to have been some kind of liquid spilled on it," they claimed. I > dunno, it just stopped working one day. ;-) > > Oh -- http://www.mixdown.ca/~andrew/photos/t30/ -- the new range is far too > warm to dry out keyboards, even on the coolest setting. > > -A. > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 10:32:21 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: <200406231116.28756.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: <200406231132.21634.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 11:31, simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > Maybe you should have been patient, and let them air dry? Yeah I should have -- I'd never had problems with the old oven; the "warm" setting was perfect for driving out moisture. > For cuircuit boards, the best thing is a dishwasher with no soap, and the > heat-dry cycle turned off. I used to run boards through the dishwasher to > take off solder flux, worked great. Yup that's what we do here at Benshaw for our small stuff. It's been a while since I did embedded hardware design, I kind of miss it actually, but I like this field applications engineering stuff way better. :-) Regards, Andrew From marko at isfoundhere.com Wed Jun 23 12:40:40 2004 From: marko at isfoundhere.com (Marko Vidberg) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? Message-ID: <29249.65.48.128.134.1088012440.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> I coded in Perl for a number of years at my work for all our web projects, then we switched everything to PHP and I like it much better. I will still use Perl for my quick and dirty command line scripting but for web development how can you beat PHP? From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 12:45:51 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? Message-ID: I don't hate php. Actually, I quite like it for web work. The only thing that *slightly* annoys me about it is $variable that could be a scalar, array or hash instead of $scalar, @array, %hash. :) From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 12:58:51 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? In-Reply-To: <29249.65.48.128.134.1088012440.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> References: <29249.65.48.128.134.1088012440.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> Message-ID: <200406231358.51825.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 13:40, Marko Vidberg wrote: > I coded in Perl for a number of years at my work for all our web projects, > then we switched everything to PHP and I like it much better. I will > still use Perl for my quick and dirty command line scripting but for web > development how can you beat PHP? Web development? As in web pages? Dreamweaver or Quanta (latter I use for editing) -- Use decent comments to allow programmatic splitting of the elements you need. After that I try to split up the HTML elements into blocks I can store somewhere as "raw" as possible, and then write functions to utilize them (filling tables, etc.) -- I use the comments so I can programattically split the elements up so that (for example) I can rebuild the original HTML page, edit it, and split it up again to make changes as necessary. Yes you can do the same with PHP but then comes my second gripe: PHP and Perl are very similar in function. Why learn and try to master two very similar languages? I chose Perl since it was much more widespread and (to me) far more powerful, both in OO and in text parsing, which is what I end up using scripting for most times. First comes the grep/cut/sed and if it gets unwieldy I break out the depeleted uranium Perlbar. :-) My hatred for PHP comes from my experiences with it. As I said in an earlier post, it definitely can separate content from presentation but everything about PHP seems geared to encouraging mixing the two. And when you do that, you get Pain. With APIs such as PEAR and ADODB the database abstraction is better but it still is kind of sucky compared to DBI. Perl seems to be able to nestle up to the hardware (fast I/O) better than PHP as well, but most importantly, Perl's CPAN and modular architecture are MILES ahead of PHP. Nay, light-years ahead. There is no substitute for me. However, with this Exchange4Linux thing taking off here I am learning Python... it seems to be a dominatrixed version of Perl... -A. From Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com Wed Jun 23 13:08:09 2004 From: Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com (Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? Message-ID: PHP is "hated" because it is improperly used. It is improperly used because it is easy to get started with ... and quickly becomes difficult to reorganize. One should not put large amounts of code into web pages. This leads to copy-n-paste coding, which is the exact opposite of Code Reuse. Take a look at most PHP open source projects and you'll see that they are struggling to *remove* PHP from their pages. If PHP in pages is such a good idea...why does Smarty exist?? A templating system for a template language??? I'm not saying that there isn't good PHP...but just like Visual Basic, it is easy to get started, but often improperly used. Basically, it comes down to people starting on a project before they've figured out what they are trying to do. By the time they get an idea, they already have dozens (hundreds?) of pages which HTML and PHP intertwined and they aren't willing (unable?) to rework the code to clean it up....this leads to non-internationalized, non-browser-agnostic, invent-the-wheel-each-time websites. Not to say that Perl (or any other language) can't be similarily abused...but PHP has way too many examples of how *not* to write PHP that its hard to get newbies to learn the right way to write PHP...thus PHP is "hated". Don't get me wrong, I use PHP in a number of scenarios...but always have to cringe when it comes to string manipulation ;-) greg.fenton ---- Greg Fenton Consultant, Solution Services iAnywhere Solutions "Marko Vidberg" Sent by: kw-pm-bounces@mail.pm.org 06/23/2004 01:40 PM Please respond to marko To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org cc: Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? I coded in Perl for a number of years at my work for all our web projects, then we switched everything to PHP and I like it much better. I will still use Perl for my quick and dirty command line scripting but for web development how can you beat PHP? _______________________________________________ kw-pm mailing list kw-pm@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040623/55497400/attachment.htm From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 13:10:05 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? In-Reply-To: <200406231358.51825.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> References: <29249.65.48.128.134.1088012440.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> <200406231358.51825.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: <200406231410.05313.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 13:58, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > On Wednesday 23 June 2004 13:40, Marko Vidberg wrote: > > I coded in Perl for a number of years at my work for all our web > > projects, then we switched everything to PHP and I like it much better. > > I will still use Perl for my quick and dirty command line scripting but > > for web development how can you beat PHP? Sorry I missed the "quick and dirty" part -- for Q&D I still use Perl with the print ... < Greetings everyone, Just signed up to the mailing list yesterday and thought I'd say hello. Looking forward to attending some future meetings. Getting deeper into Perl of late while rebuilding www.linux.ca using Mason and t7e. Cheers Bill From marko at isfoundhere.com Wed Jun 23 13:42:13 2004 From: marko at isfoundhere.com (Marko Vidberg) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? In-Reply-To: <200406231358.51825.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> References: <29249.65.48.128.134.1088012440.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> <200406231358.51825.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: <29550.65.48.128.134.1088016133.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> Ok, I get all the griping (validly so) about messy code being too easy with PHP, having tried to hack stuff into squirrelmail and oscommerce with limited success. I do have to agree that a lot of the bigger OSS PHP projects are a mess. Regardless, I still find working with PHP (with properly separated logic and presentation sections) to be much quicker than with Perl when it comes to web work... but then again I never was the greatest Perl guru. From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 13:46:39 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? In-Reply-To: <29550.65.48.128.134.1088016133.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> References: <29249.65.48.128.134.1088012440.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> <200406231358.51825.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> <29550.65.48.128.134.1088016133.squirrel@www.vidberg.com> Message-ID: <200406231446.39328.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 14:42, Marko Vidberg wrote: > Ok, I get all the griping (validly so) about messy code being too easy > with PHP, having tried to hack stuff into squirrelmail and oscommerce with > limited success. I do have to agree that a lot of the bigger OSS PHP > projects are a mess. Regardless, I still find working with PHP (with > properly separated logic and presentation sections) to be much quicker > than with Perl when it comes to web work... but then again I never was the > greatest Perl guru. Actually I find that the easiest-to-read programs are written by mediocre-to-good skill level programmers. The newbies make a mess of everything because they don't know what they're doing (and usually don't care) and the stellar programmers oftentimes don't comment very well because they're so used to what they're doing that it is obvious to them (through no fault of their own). The mediocre programmer is more careful and explicit in his or her documentation. The algorithms and techniques used will not be top-notch but the code usually does work and is easy to understand. There's a great quote I am reminded of: An architect's first work is apt to be spare and clean. He knows he doesn't know what he's doing, so he does it carefully and with great restraint. As he designs the first work, frill after frill and embellishment after embellishment occur to him. These get stored away to be used "next time". Sooner or later the first system is finished, and the architect, with firm confidence and a demonstrated mastery of that class of systems, is ready to build a second system. This second is the most dangerous system a man ever designs. When he does his third and later ones, his prior experiences will confirm each other as to the general characteristics of such systems, and their differences will identify those parts of his experience that are particular and not generalizable. The general tendency is to over-design the second system, using all the ideas and frills that were cautiously sidetracked on the first one. The result, as Ovid says, is a "big pile". -- Frederick Brooks, "The Mythical Man Month" -A. From Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com Wed Jun 23 13:56:03 2004 From: Greg.Fenton at ianywhere.com (Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] why the hatred for PHP? Message-ID: PHP (as well as most RAD languages) gives quick gratification (i.e. results). This is a strength, but I would argue that it is an even greater weakness. As I mentioned, too often are people eager to get "results" without properly planning. As the system grows, it becomes harder and harder to add functionality (osCommerce is a *fantastic* example of this). It *tends* to be that the PHP advocates pump the "instant results" where as the detractors push the lack of design in most PHP solutions. Where you stand typically depends on whether you are in the project for the "long haul" or not. With the right forethought and coding practices, heck even Visual Basic can be a worthy tool. But as in all things, it is a "right tool for the job" situation... If people think of Perl as "a dirty scripting language", they'll never fully appreciate its incredible strength and flexibility (just take a look at any of the stuff Damian showed off last week at YAPC...absolutely mind blowing...sufficiently close to Magic!) If people think of PHP as a "poor Perl", then they likely aren't looking at "just get a website up" type projects. (However, to those people's defense, they may understand the principle that every line of code written must be supported for 50+ years...which it must). greg.fenton ---- Greg Fenton Consultant, Solution Services iAnywhere Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/kw-pm/attachments/20040623/2c87e6fd/attachment.htm From btraynor at linux.ca Wed Jun 23 14:19:49 2004 From: btraynor at linux.ca (Bill Traynor) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Damian Conway talk and YAPC::NA 2005 Message-ID: <32955.207.245.14.100.1088018389.squirrel@207.245.14.100> I'm sure everyone on this list is already aware of the upcoming free talks to be given by Damian Conway in July in Toronto. For details see http://to.pm.org/damian/#freetalks What you may not be aware of is that if the UofT venue is sufficiently packed (ie. standing room only) there is a considerably good possibility that YAPC:NA 2005 will be held in Toronto. So if you were trying to decide which talk to attend, please try to make the Saturday talk at UofT: Saturday 17 July 2004, 4pm - 7pm Room BA 1160 Bahen Centre for Information Technology 40 St. George Street University of Toronto (downtown St. George campus) Toronto, Ontario Here's a summary of the talk topic: Perl 6 Language Update: The State of The Language, and Object-Oriented Programming in Perl 6 The Perl 6 design process is about keeping what works in Perl 5, fixing what doesn't, and adding what's missing. That means there will be a few fundamental changes to the language, a larger number of extensions to existing functionality, and a handful of completely new features. In this talk Damian will showcase some of the ways in which these modifications, enhancements, and innovations -- and in particular, the new OO mechanisms in Perl 6 -- will work together to make the next major version of Perl even more insanely great. This talk will be best appreciated by people who have a decent level of Perl 5 knowledge, especially if they have been following along with the Perl 6 development process. However, anyone who comes will gain a much better appreciation of the Perl 6 language, including a good idea of what it will look like in its final form. This talk could run long. Cheers Bill From simon-kwpm at uc.org Wed Jun 23 14:45:21 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] twiki speed issues. Message-ID: I have a vanilla twiki running on a Sun Enterprise 3000 w/4 250mhz cpu's, and 1.5gb of ram, and files are stored on a netapp connected via fibrechannel... so in *theory*, it's a fast machine... but twiki runs slow as a dog! I've enabled mod_perl, and that sped it up by about 10 times, but it's still a real drag. Anyone have any optimization tips? re, Simon From lloydcarr at rogers.com Wed Jun 23 15:00:04 2004 From: lloydcarr at rogers.com (Lloyd Carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: <000201c4595c$bfca8380$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> So Arguile, when can we all get together on "your" patio? Oh and I still want to see your embedded perl gum-stlck. -Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: "Arguile" Sent: 22/06/04 23:41:24 To: "kw-pm@mail.pm.org" Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. On Tue, 2004-06-22 at 19:19, simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > What was working at Environment Canada like? > > One of my dream jobs would be working on weather forecasting using > distributed computing. Forecasting would be my dream job too, you get to be wrong 99% of the time and still get paid. ;) -- Arguile _______________________________________________ kw-pm mailing list kw-pm@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 15:07:20 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: <000201c4595c$bfca8380$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> References: <000201c4595c$bfca8380$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> Message-ID: <200406231607.20870.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 16:00, Lloyd Carr wrote: > So Arguile, when can we all get together on "your" patio? Oh and I still > want to see your embedded perl gum-stlck. If y'all are willing to come up to Listowel (well just this [waterloo] side of it) I have a half acre we can hang out on. Hopefully I'll have fibre between the barn and house soon, too. :-) -A. From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 15:20:26 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] twiki speed issues. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406231620.26245.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 15:45, simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > I have a vanilla twiki running on a Sun Enterprise 3000 w/4 250mhz cpu's, > and 1.5gb of ram, and files are stored on a netapp connected via > fibrechannel... so in *theory*, it's a fast machine... Wowza. > but twiki runs slow as a dog! I've enabled mod_perl, and that sped it up > by about 10 times, but it's still a real drag. Anyone have any > optimization tips? Identify your bottlenecks... running "vmstat 1 > vmstat.out" while everything is going on can help, use nc to see how much you can realistically push through your network cable... see where the bottleneck is. It's impossible to try and fix otherwise, especially with a system that is spec'd like what you have. Regards, Andrew From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 15:21:31 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406231621.31520.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 10:19, Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com wrote: > As for PHP vs. Perl...when it comes to building hosted sites, most ISPs > have no problem supporting mod_php but they freak at the idea of mod_perl > or of constantly upgrading CPAN modules. So many folks turn to PHP to > avoid writing complex CGIs. Which is interesting, because to build or upgrade PHP you're looking at a major undertaking compared to keeping a handful of CPAN modules up to date (and really, once they're there what needs to be updated?) -A. From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 15:29:38 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406231629.38048.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 11:26, Greg.Fenton@ianywhere.com wrote: > You looking for a position in an IT department? (Does this ring of > BOFH??) hahaha - I can melt keyboards with the best of 'em. The early BOFH rocked... the later ones were too cliche for me, although I suppose there are only so many ways to LART someone and maintiain plausible deniability. :-) -A. From lloydcarr at rogers.com Wed Jun 23 15:35:08 2004 From: lloydcarr at rogers.com (Lloyd Carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: <000001c45961$9585f320$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> What next, you'll want to invite the Python people in for tea ;-) -Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: "Daniel R. Allen" Sent: 23/06/04 09:59:44 To: "Andrew Kohlsmith" Cc: "kw-pm@mail.pm.org" Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. Er. If we exclude everybody who works with PHP, I'm afraid I'm out, too. :-> The funny thing is, there are a good number of well-written PHP apps for the web, which don't have free and open-source equivalents in perl. If anybody has a good "survey generation and administration tool" in perl, I'm all ears! -Daniel On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > On Tuesday 22 June 2004 18:51, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come *here*. I > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I suppose > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > Very true. You and PHP deserve each other. Good riddance. :-) > > I'm from Listowel and have *presented*, so there! > > -A. > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > _______________________________________________ kw-pm mailing list kw-pm@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pmfr From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Wed Jun 23 15:41:15 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: <000001c45961$9585f320$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> References: <000001c45961$9585f320$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> Message-ID: <200406231641.15271.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 16:35, Lloyd Carr wrote: > What next, you'll want to invite the Python people in for tea ;-) No, they'd make us place our chairs exactly two feet apart, enforce that all conversations started with "As I see it," and get really angry if we drank our tea without our pinkies extended. They're too starched-shirted for my liking. :-) -A. From lloydcarr at rogers.com Wed Jun 23 16:13:04 2004 From: lloydcarr at rogers.com (Lloyd Carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Greetings Message-ID: <000001c45966$e406be80$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> Welcome Bill. You picked a good time to sign in! Traffic has been up as of late :-) -Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Traynor" Sent: 23/06/04 14:20:08 To: "kw-pm@mail.pm.org" Subject: [kw-pm] Greetings Greetings everyone, Just signed up to the mailing list yesterday and thought I'd say hello. Looking forward to attending some future meetings. Getting deeper into Perl of late while rebuilding www.linux.ca using Mason and t7e. Cheers Bill _______________________________________________ kw-pm mailing list kw-pm@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm? From lloydcarr at rogers.com Wed Jun 23 16:13:08 2004 From: lloydcarr at rogers.com (Lloyd Carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: <000101c45966$e82e4820$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> Ooooo...what about a Saturday picnic? -----Original Message----- From: "Andrew Kohlsmith" Sent: 23/06/04 16:09:01 To: "kw-pm@mail.pm.org" Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. On Wednesday 23 June 2004 16:00, Lloyd Carr wrote: > So Arguile, when can we all get together on "your" patio? Oh and I still > want to see your embedded perl gum-stlck. If y'all are willing to come up to Listowel (well just this [waterloo] side of it) I have a half acre we can hang out on. Hopefully I'll have fibre between the barn and house soon, too. :-) -A. _______________________________________________ kw-pm mailing list kw-pm@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm? From daniel at coder.com Wed Jun 23 18:40:42 2004 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Greetings, python, php In-Reply-To: <000001c45966$e406be80$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> Message-ID: Holy cow, has it ever picked up. I'm tempted to reply to about ten of these messages, but I'm afraid of causing a positive feedback loop. :-) Welcome Bill, welcome Simon, pull up a chair... Hopefully, we'll have a good turnout at our next meeting now! -- To combine a few messages into one, Andrew: regarding python style, you have the option of using python syntax in perl, if you find you like being disciplined: http://search.cpan.org/~fxn/Acme-Pythonic-0.32/lib/Acme/Pythonic.pm use Acme::Pythonic; # this semicolon yet needed sub delete_edges: my $G = shift while my ($u, $v) = splice(@_, 0, 2): if defined $v: $G->delete_edge($u, $v) else: my @e = $G->edges($u) while ($u, $v) = splice(@e, 0, 2): $G->delete_edge($u, $v) Yet Another module pointed out in Damian's talk... -- And finally, regarding "hatred" of php, all of the complaints of PHP (about dangers of rapid prototyping) can be levelled against perl as well. And I've heard them, from java/C++/scheme programmers. Since we agree they aren't true for perl (just because perl CAN be write-once, read-never, doesn't mean it has to be...) I'd like to hold out hope for PHP. I believe there have to be really good examples of elegant PHP coding, even though I haven't really seen it. googling for "elegant php" shows some promising pages, and if I get the time I'll read these: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/03/06/03/193223.shtml http://www.phppatterns.com/index.php/article/articleview/85/1/9/ But I'll conclude (since this is a perl list, after all) that it seems pretty clear that php isn't as mature a language as perl. I won't even get into python though. :-) -Daniel On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Lloyd Carr wrote: > Welcome Bill. > > You picked a good time to sign in! > Traffic has been up as of late :-) > > -Lloyd > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Bill Traynor" > Sent: 23/06/04 14:20:08 > To: "kw-pm@mail.pm.org" > Subject: [kw-pm] Greetings > Greetings everyone, > > Just signed up to the mailing list yesterday and thought I'd say hello. > Looking forward to attending some future meetings. Getting deeper into > Perl of late while rebuilding www.linux.ca using Mason and t7e. > > Cheers > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm? > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org Wed Jun 23 19:16:01 2004 From: dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org (lloyd carr) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We-lllll after seeing your website who would not be ... intrigued ;-) On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:41:49 +0000 > From: Rebecca Anstett > To: dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > Cc: simon-kwpm@uc.org, kw-pm@mail.pm.org > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > We-lllll now that I don't have Wed eve classes, it's a distinct possibility > ;) > > >Oh come on Rebecca, we all want to meet you. We can even overlook that php > >train thing ;-) > > > >-Lloyd > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:51:28 +0000 > > > From: Rebecca Anstett > > > To: dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org, simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > Cc: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come > >*here*. I > > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I > >suppose > > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl ;p > > > > > > ~Rebecca > > > > > > > > > >From: lloyd carr > > > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > > > > > >Welcome Simon. > > > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to attend > >our > > > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come to > >our > > > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > > > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more > >lucrative > > > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I keep > > > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not interested > >in, > > > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web tools in > > > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found > >myself > > > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple (maintaining > >unix > > > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have nothing to > >do. > > > > > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great > >strides > > > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after Nat > >got > > > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. Though, > >I'm > > > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > > > > > re, > > > > > Simon > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >kw-pm mailing list > > > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com Wed Jun 23 19:38:24 2004 From: rebecca_anstett at hotmail.com (Rebecca Anstett) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. Message-ID: 'Intrigued' is a word with many connotations ;) >We-lllll after seeing your website who would not be ... intrigued ;-) > >On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:41:49 +0000 > > From: Rebecca Anstett > > To: dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > Cc: simon-kwpm@uc.org, kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > We-lllll now that I don't have Wed eve classes, it's a distinct >possibility > > ;) > > > > >Oh come on Rebecca, we all want to meet you. We can even overlook that >php > > >train thing ;-) > > > > > >-Lloyd > > > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Rebecca Anstett wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:51:28 +0000 > > > > From: Rebecca Anstett > > > > To: dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org, simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > Cc: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > > > Now I feel completely horrid. He lives in TO and is going to come > > >*here*. I > > > > live here and, well, I've never been to a meeting.. *hangs head* I > > >suppose > > > > it's fitting that I'm on the php train now... I don't deserve perl >;p > > > > > > > > ~Rebecca > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: lloyd carr > > > > >To: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > >CC: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > >Subject: Re: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > > > > > > > > >Welcome Simon. > > > > >You live in Toronto, but you are going to drive to Waterloo to >attend > > >our > > > > >meetings, because ... Don't get me wrong your most welcome to come >to > > >our > > > > >meetings, but I seem to be missing something ;-) > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:21:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > > From: simon-kwpm@uc.org > > > > > > To: kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > > > Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, my name is Simon Ditner, I'm new here as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to live in Waterloo, but moved to Toronto for a more > > >lucrative > > > > > > job; I suspect that I was -the- cheapest programmer in K/W. I >keep > > > > > > missing to.pm due to schedule conflicts / topics I'm not >interested > > >in, > > > > > > so I'm hoping to make it out to k/w for your talks. > > > > > > > > > > > > I currently build network management tools, and various web >tools in > > > > > > Sprint Canada's IP network group to entertain myself. I've found > > >myself > > > > > > in a strange position here. My core work is so simple >(maintaining > > >unix > > > > > > services that don't really crash) that I essentially have >nothing to > > >do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Outside of work, I'm developing a module for rendering Treemaps > > > > > > (http://orange.uc.org/read/Treemaps). Eric Maki and I made great > > >strides > > > > > > last year, and I finally released it into CPAN at YAPC::NA after >Nat > > >got > > > > > > all excited about them in #yapc last week. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd be happy to do a talk on them, and their applications. >Though, > > >I'm > > > > > > rather terse, so it might be a short talk. > > > > > > > > > > > > re, > > > > > > Simon > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > kw-pm mailing list > > > > > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >kw-pm mailing list > > > > >kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > > > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > > > > > >dcarr@sdf.lonestar.org >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Thu Jun 24 08:26:30 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Greetings, python, php In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406240926.30475.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Wednesday 23 June 2004 19:40, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > To combine a few messages into one, Andrew: regarding python style, you > have the option of using python syntax in perl, if you find you like being > disciplined: You know, it only feels kinky the first time. -A. From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Thu Jun 24 09:50:28 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Saturday Perlnic Message-ID: <200406241050.28212.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> If ya'll are interested then sure I can host it up in my neck of the woods; If anyone planning to attend can let me know in this thread it'll help a lot Date: Saturday June 26 Time: ?? (I'm easy) Location: Casa Del Kohlsmith What to bring: up to whoever's all coming, I'm easy (crappy) driving directions: http://tinyurl.com/3e6vy detail map of my place: http://tinyurl.com/24629 Datapoints: - From the "Listowel 11km" sign I'm almost exactly 7km - From the "Teviotdale ->" sign I'm almost exactly 4km (I think) - Red brick house, 911 #5466 on your right - If you pass Carson's auctions (big operation) on your left, turn around, I'm less than 500m from there -A. From btraynor at linux.ca Thu Jun 24 10:08:28 2004 From: btraynor at linux.ca (Bill Traynor) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Saturday Perlnic In-Reply-To: <200406241050.28212.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> References: <200406241050.28212.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: <3867.207.245.14.100.1088089708.squirrel@207.245.14.100> > If ya'll are interested then sure I can host it up in my neck of the > woods; If > anyone planning to attend can let me know in this thread it'll help a lot > I'm interested, however I'm heading to the Zoo with the family on Saturday. I'll do my best to make the next meeting though. When is the next meeting, btw? > Date: Saturday June 26 > Time: ?? (I'm easy) > Location: Casa Del Kohlsmith > What to bring: up to whoever's all coming, I'm easy > > (crappy) driving directions: http://tinyurl.com/3e6vy > detail map of my place: http://tinyurl.com/24629 > > Datapoints: > - From the "Listowel 11km" sign I'm almost exactly 7km > - From the "Teviotdale ->" sign I'm almost exactly 4km (I think) > - Red brick house, 911 #5466 on your right > - If you pass Carson's auctions (big operation) on your left, turn around, > I'm > less than 500m from there > > -A. > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From simon-kwpm at uc.org Thu Jun 24 14:01:39 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Saturday Perlnic In-Reply-To: <200406241050.28212.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> References: <200406241050.28212.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: I'd love to come, but I'm down in Welland for the weekend :-/ On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > If ya'll are interested then sure I can host it up in my neck of the woods; If > anyone planning to attend can let me know in this thread it'll help a lot > > Date: Saturday June 26 > Time: ?? (I'm easy) > Location: Casa Del Kohlsmith > What to bring: up to whoever's all coming, I'm easy > > (crappy) driving directions: http://tinyurl.com/3e6vy > detail map of my place: http://tinyurl.com/24629 > > Datapoints: > - From the "Listowel 11km" sign I'm almost exactly 7km > - From the "Teviotdale ->" sign I'm almost exactly 4km (I think) > - Red brick house, 911 #5466 on your right > - If you pass Carson's auctions (big operation) on your left, turn around, I'm > less than 500m from there > > -A. > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From simon-kwpm at uc.org Thu Jun 24 14:11:50 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] twiki speed issues. In-Reply-To: <200406231620.26245.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> References: <200406231620.26245.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: The bottleneck turned out to be the code itself. After going through the functions that DProf highlighted as teh big loosers, I found (among other things) that each page view was running bewteen 3,000, and 5,000 regexes against the page to replace %macors% and such, rather than using something like token parsing -- or better yet, a nice mature module like HTML::Template, which is already highly optimized for these sorts of operations. Maybe Kwiki will perform better. re, Simon On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > On Wednesday 23 June 2004 15:45, simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > I have a vanilla twiki running on a Sun Enterprise 3000 w/4 250mhz cpu's, > > and 1.5gb of ram, and files are stored on a netapp connected via > > fibrechannel... so in *theory*, it's a fast machine... > > Wowza. > > > but twiki runs slow as a dog! I've enabled mod_perl, and that sped it up > > by about 10 times, but it's still a real drag. Anyone have any > > optimization tips? > > Identify your bottlenecks... running "vmstat 1 > vmstat.out" while everything > is going on can help, use nc to see how much you can realistically push > through your network cable... see where the bottleneck is. It's impossible > to try and fix otherwise, especially with a system that is spec'd like what > you have. > > Regards, > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From simon-kwpm at uc.org Thu Jun 24 14:29:21 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] phpwiki + perl + GraphViz = crazy diagrams! Message-ID: I was creating network maps with Perl and GraphViz, and I though it'd be cool to run it against orange.uc.org, and here's what came out: http://uc.org/~simon/wiki.html Code: http://uc.org/~simon/WikiViz.perl.txt re, Simon From akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com Thu Jun 24 14:37:00 2004 From: akohlsmith-pm at benshaw.com (Andrew Kohlsmith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] twiki speed issues. In-Reply-To: References: <200406231620.26245.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: <200406241537.00382.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> On Thursday 24 June 2004 15:11, simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > The bottleneck turned out to be the code itself. After going through the > functions that DProf highlighted as teh big loosers, I found (among other > things) that each page view was running bewteen 3,000, and 5,000 regexes > against the page to replace %macors% and such, rather than using > something like token parsing -- or better yet, a nice mature module like > HTML::Template, which is already highly optimized for these sorts of > operations. > Maybe Kwiki will perform better. This being kw-pm and all, I highly recommend podwiki. wiki.benshaw.com runs it, as does www.vexi.org. -A. From arguile at lucentstudios.com Thu Jun 24 21:51:53 2004 From: arguile at lucentstudios.com (Arguile) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] another intro. In-Reply-To: <000201c4595c$bfca8380$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> References: <000201c4595c$bfca8380$a603a8c0@int.carr.inet> Message-ID: <1088131912.492.1904.camel@broadswd.local> On Wed, 2004-06-23 at 16:00, Lloyd Carr wrote: > So Arguile, when can we all get together on "your" patio? Oh and I still > want to see your embedded perl gum-stlck. Yes, sorry for not getting back to people on that. There have been some... atmosphere changes... at work recently, I don't think asking any favours is advisable at this time. :( As for the gum-stick, that wasn't my department. I was doing the mini-itx stuff which I hope to make a talk out of when I get some time. I'll see if I can swing bringing a gum-stick for show and tell though. ;) From simon-kwpm at uc.org Tue Jun 29 06:37:07 2004 From: simon-kwpm at uc.org (simon-kwpm@uc.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] next meeting? Message-ID: So what's the topic for the next meeting? From daniel at coder.com Wed Jun 30 20:22:13 2004 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] meeting topics? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fine question. We don't currently have a topic for the upcoming meeting. Which, since our patio has fallen through, seems to be at the U of W in three weeks, on the 21st. I'd like to hear from some 'o the list newcomers- what topics would you like to see? The last time we asked at a meeting, I believe we came up with the following topics people had interest in: - some beginner topics like using modules in general - useful modules from CPAN (? this might have been from a prior meeting) - a little interest in perl 6 - and there was much interest in Arguile's embedded linux box with perl on the back end. I would be happy to spend ~10 minutes on hash slices, which we were going to talk about at the last meeting but ran out of time for. I would also be happy to prepare something about useful modules, on any range (beginner, intermediate, advanced), if people said so soon. Another suggestion for a basic topic would be an intro to OO perl... Other thoughts? Hm, maybe what we need is a wiki, rather than cluttering the list with this topic that will never end. -Daniel On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > So what's the topic for the next meeting? > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From daniel at coder.com Wed Jun 30 20:23:11 2004 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Saturday Perlnic In-Reply-To: <200406241050.28212.akohlsmith-pm@benshaw.com> Message-ID: So- Andrew- did you get a good turnout? Did you get *any* turnout? :-) -Daniel On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > If ya'll are interested then sure I can host it up in my neck of the woods; If > anyone planning to attend can let me know in this thread it'll help a lot > > Date: Saturday June 26 > Time: ?? (I'm easy) > Location: Casa Del Kohlsmith > What to bring: up to whoever's all coming, I'm easy > > (crappy) driving directions: http://tinyurl.com/3e6vy > detail map of my place: http://tinyurl.com/24629 > > Datapoints: > - From the "Listowel 11km" sign I'm almost exactly 7km > - From the "Teviotdale ->" sign I'm almost exactly 4km (I think) > - Red brick house, 911 #5466 on your right > - If you pass Carson's auctions (big operation) on your left, turn around, I'm > less than 500m from there > > -A. > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From daniel at coder.com Wed Jun 30 20:28:42 2004 From: daniel at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Damian Conway talk and YAPC::NA 2005 In-Reply-To: <32955.207.245.14.100.1088018389.squirrel@207.245.14.100> Message-ID: ...It also occurs to me that Damian Conway is speaking twice in Toronto, five days and two days before our next scheduled meeting. The Monday night talk (which he gave at YAPC 2003) sounds quite good- as well as the perl 6 talk Bill mentioned below. Is anybody interested in either or both of these, and would be interested in a carpool? Depending on interest, we might discuss moving the regular meeting. But only if I'm not the only person who is going to one or both of these. :-) -Daniel On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Bill Traynor wrote: > I'm sure everyone on this list is already aware of the upcoming free talks > to be given by Damian Conway in July in Toronto. > > For details see http://to.pm.org/damian/#freetalks > > What you may not be aware of is that if the UofT venue is sufficiently > packed (ie. standing room only) there is a considerably good possibility > that YAPC:NA 2005 will be held in Toronto. > > So if you were trying to decide which talk to attend, please try to make > the Saturday talk at UofT: > > Saturday 17 July 2004, 4pm - 7pm > > Room BA 1160 > Bahen Centre for Information Technology > 40 St. George Street > University of Toronto (downtown St. George campus) > Toronto, Ontario > > Here's a summary of the talk topic: Perl 6 Language Update: The State of > The Language, and Object-Oriented Programming in Perl 6 > > The Perl 6 design process is about keeping what works in Perl 5, fixing > what doesn't, and adding what's missing. That means there will be a few > fundamental changes to the language, a larger number of extensions to > existing functionality, and a handful of completely new features. In this > talk Damian will showcase some of the ways in which these modifications, > enhancements, and innovations -- and in particular, the new OO mechanisms > in Perl 6 -- will work together to make the next major version of Perl > even more insanely great. > > This talk will be best appreciated by people who have a decent level of > Perl 5 knowledge, especially if they have been following along with the > Perl 6 development process. However, anyone who comes will gain a much > better appreciation of the Perl 6 language, including a good idea of what > it will look like in its final form. This talk could run long. > > Cheers > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > From da at coder.com Wed Jun 30 21:09:46 2004 From: da at coder.com (Daniel R. Allen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] meeting topics? wiki? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > Hm, maybe what we need is a wiki, rather than cluttering the list with > this topic that will never end. As much as I *hate* following up my own posts, I thought that was a good idea so I put one up. http://kw.pm.org/wiki/index.cgi will get you to our brand spankin' new Kwiki wiki, just waiting for your edits. No, I don't know whether kwiki is faster or better than twiki or podwiki. It's definitely easy; setting this up took approx. 2 minutes (plus page-editing time). Anyway, gotta go... -D From arguile at lucentstudios.com Wed Jun 30 21:39:59 2004 From: arguile at lucentstudios.com (Arguile) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] Damian Conway talk and YAPC::NA 2005 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088649598.499.10717.camel@broadswd.local> On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 21:28, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > ...It also occurs to me that Damian Conway is speaking twice in Toronto, > five days and two days before our next scheduled meeting. The Monday > night talk (which he gave at YAPC 2003) sounds quite good- as well as the > perl 6 talk Bill mentioned below. > > Is anybody interested in either or both of these, and would be interested > in a carpool? Depending on interest, we might discuss moving the regular > meeting. But only if I'm not the only person who is going to one or both > of these. :-) I'd love to go, I can pitch in some gas money but I don't have a vehicle. Well... unless someone wants to spend ~5 1/2 hours riding on my handlebars ;). From rprice at freeshell.org Wed Jun 30 22:22:16 2004 From: rprice at freeshell.org (rprice@freeshell.org) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:31:36 2004 Subject: [kw-pm] meeting topics? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For the record, I can probably ask if we can have meetings at the Albert street location of Open Text. We have a nice patio, barbeque, electronic projectors, all outside the development area, so it might be easier to get permission. Oh yea, and lots of free parking... Rick On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Daniel R. Allen wrote: > Fine question. We don't currently have a topic for the upcoming meeting. > Which, since our patio has fallen through, seems to be at the U of W in > three weeks, on the 21st. > > I'd like to hear from some 'o the list newcomers- what topics would you > like to see? > > The last time we asked at a meeting, I believe we came up with the > following topics people had interest in: > > - some beginner topics like using modules in general > - useful modules from CPAN (? this might have been from a prior meeting) > - a little interest in perl 6 > > - and there was much interest in Arguile's embedded linux box with perl > on the back end. > > I would be happy to spend ~10 minutes on hash slices, which we were going > to talk about at the last meeting but ran out of time for. > > I would also be happy to prepare something about useful modules, on any > range (beginner, intermediate, advanced), if people said so soon. > > Another suggestion for a basic topic would be an intro to OO perl... > > Other thoughts? > > Hm, maybe what we need is a wiki, rather than cluttering the list with > this topic that will never end. > > -Daniel > > > > On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 simon-kwpm@uc.org wrote: > > > So what's the topic for the next meeting? > > _______________________________________________ > > kw-pm mailing list > > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kw-pm mailing list > kw-pm@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/kw-pm >