[Jax.PM] ~9M lines of data
Nate Campi
nate at campin.net
Mon Oct 14 12:28:43 CDT 2002
On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 12:25:03PM -0400, iudicium ferat wrote:
> [a jax.PM member posting]
> I am somewhat beating my head against a brick wall here - so I think "Hey!
> This sounds like a Fun With Perl project :)"
>
> Here is the challenge -
>
> You are presented with a MySQL Schema dump that is less than 9 million rows;
> you should read the data row by row, finding each CREATE TABLE statement,
> and displaying the next ~50 lines INCLUDING this line - do this recursively
> until end of file is reached.
I hate to say this, but the sysadmin in me hates reinventing the wheel.
If we're going to use brainpower, use it to cure cancer or fight SPAM -
something that makes life better for all ;)
GNU grep to the rescue:
$ grep -A5 Tanenbaum linux_is_obsolete.txt
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: LINUX is obsolete
Date: 29 Jan 92 12:12:50 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
P.S. Just as a random aside, Amoeba has a UNIX emulator (running in user
space), but it is far from complete. If there are any people who would
like to work on that, please let me know. To run Amoeba you need a few 386s,
--
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: LINUX is obsolete
Date: 29 Jan 92 18:03:01 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: gt0178a at prism.gatech.EDU (Jim Burns)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
in article <12605 at star.cs.vu.nl>, ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) says:
> The drivers have to read and write the device registers in I/O space, and
> this cannot be done in user mode on the 286 and 386. If it were possible
> to do I/O in a protected way in user space, all the I/O tasks could have
> been user programs, like FS and MM.
--
In article <12605 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>In article <1992Jan29.141212.29636 at epas.toronto.edu> meggin at epas.utoronto.ca (David Megginson) writes:
>>
>>Why does the
>>Intel architecture _not_ allow drivers to be independent programs?
>
--
>Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
joe.
--
joe at jshark.rn.com
uunet!nstar!jshark!joe
--
In article <12605 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>In article <1992Jan29.141212.29636 at epas.toronto.edu> meggin at epas.utoronto.ca (David Megginson) writes:
>>
>>Why does the
>>Intel architecture _not_ allow drivers to be independent programs?
>
--
>Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
Every 386 TSS has an iopermission bitmap. If the CPL is of a lower priveledge
level than IOPL, the io permissions bitmap is consulted, allowing protection
on a port by port basis.
--
In article <12605 at star.cs.vu.nl>, ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) wrote:
> In article <1992Jan29.141212.29636 at epas.toronto.edu> meggin at epas.utoronto.ca (David Megginson) writes:
>>
>>Why does the
>>Intel architecture _not_ allow drivers to be independent programs?
>
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl) writes:
> The drivers have to read and write the device registers in I/O space, and
> this cannot be done in user mode on the 286 and 386. If it were possible
> to do I/O in a protected way in user space, all the I/O tasks could have
> been user programs, like FS and MM.
--
In article <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
>I was in the U.S. for a couple of weeks, so I haven't commented much on
>LINUX (not that I would have said much had I been around), but for what
>it is worth, I have a couple of comments now.
>
--
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: LINUX is obsolete
Date: 30 Jan 92 13:44:34 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Prof. Andrew S. Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: feustel at netcom.COM (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is
>a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not
>get a high grade for such a design :-)
--
>ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
>
>>I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is
>>a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not
>>get a high grade for such a design :-)
--
>>ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>>
>>
>>>I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is
>>>a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not
>>>get a high grade for such a design :-)
--
In article <12615 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>In article <1992Jan29.231426.20469 at klaava.Helsinki.FI> torvalds at klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds) writes:
>Of course 5 years from now that will be different, but 5 years from now
>everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5.
Well, I for one would _love_ to see this happen.
--
In article <12615 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>The limitations of MINIX relate at least partly to my being a professor:
>An explicit design goal was to make it run on cheap hardware so students
>could afford it.
All right: a real technical point, and one that made some of my comments
--
In article <12615 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>In article <1992Jan29.231426.20469 at klaava.Helsinki.FI> torvalds at klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds) writes:
>>You use this [being a professor] as an excuse for the limitations of minix?
>The limitations of MINIX relate at least partly to my being a professor:
>An explicit design goal was to make it run on cheap hardware so students
>could afford it. In particular, for years it ran on a regular 4.77 MHZ PC
--
>Prof. Andrew S. Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
Kevin Brown
--
Dr. Tanenbaum claims that the microkernel architecture is the way to go.
He has a great deal more experience with operating systems than I have.
It's an understatement that it's likely that there's some substance to
his statement. :-)
Many of the things I said in my previous posting were more a result of my
--
STFS). Now, Dr. Tanenbaum may feel that a multi-threaded file system
(hereafter, MTFS) is merely a performance hack. Perhaps he's right.
Perhaps the architecture of a MTFS is sufficiently similar to that of a
STFS that his assessment is correct. My vision of a MTFS may differ
significantly from his, and this would explain why he and I seem to have
a difference of opinion on this matter. Regardless of whether or not a
--
is why Dr. Tanenbaum's statements about Linux touched a raw nerve with me:
Linux comes with source *and* it's free. And it's available right now.
Someone, either here on this newsgroup or over on alt.os.linux, made a
very valid observation: the cost of a 16 MHz 386SX system is about $140
more than a comparably equipped (in terms of RAM size, display technology,
--
Dr. Tanenbaum didn't make Minix free. His goals were different. Minix
is a teaching aid above all else (unless Dr. Tanenbaum has changed his
views about Minix :-). That means that he must be concerned with the
most efficient way to get Minix to the student population. At the time
Minix was released, Prentice-Hall was a good solution, and has been for
some time. However, I must wonder whether or not this is still the case.
Dr. Tanenbaum: do you still feel that free distribution of Minix via the
net is not the best way to distribute Minix?
Which wins? Minix or Linux? Depends on how you measure them...
--
Andy Tanenbaum writes an interesting article (also interesting was finding out
that he actually reads this group) but I think he is missing an important
point.
He Wrote:
>As most of you know, for me MINIX is a hobby, ...
--
In article <12615 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>My point is that writing a new operating system that is closely tied to any
>particular piece of hardware, especially a weird one like the Intel line,
>is basically wrong. An OS itself should be easily portable to new hardware
>platforms.
--
>Dr. Tanenbaum claims that the microkernel architecture is the way to go.
>He has a great deal more experience with operating systems than I have.
>It's an understatement that it's likely that there's some substance to
>his statement. :-)
I tend to prefer seeing for myself rather than accepting "expert" opinion.
--
>STFS). Now, Dr. Tanenbaum may feel that a multi-threaded file system
>(hereafter, MTFS) is merely a performance hack.
I think this is a very valid problem. There are two ways a single threaded FS
could work and both have substantial problems. If the FS blocks while waiting
for I/O it would be completely unusable for "real" work. Imagine several users
--
>Dr. Tanenbaum didn't make Minix free. His goals were different. Minix
>is a teaching aid above all else (unless Dr. Tanenbaum has changed his
>views about Minix :-). That means that he must be concerned with the
>most efficient way to get Minix to the student population. At the time
>Minix was released, Prentice-Hall was a good solution, and has been for
>some time. However, I must wonder whether or not this is still the case.
>Dr. Tanenbaum: do you still feel that free distribution of Minix via the
>net is not the best way to distribute Minix?
I would guess that Prentice-Hall would have some objections :)
--
Disclaimer: Opinions are based on logic rather than biblical "fact". ------
--
>>Dr. Tanenbaum claims that the microkernel architecture is the way to go.
>>He has a great deal more experience with operating systems than I have.
>>It's an understatement that it's likely that there's some substance to
>>his statement. :-)
>
>I tend to prefer seeing for myself rather than accepting "expert" opinion.
--
>>STFS). Now, Dr. Tanenbaum may feel that a multi-threaded file system
>>(hereafter, MTFS) is merely a performance hack.
>
>I think this is a very valid problem. There are two ways a single threaded FS
>could work and both have substantial problems. If the FS blocks while waiting
>for I/O it would be completely unusable for "real" work. Imagine several users
--
>>Dr. Tanenbaum didn't make Minix free. His goals were different. Minix
>>is a teaching aid above all else (unless Dr. Tanenbaum has changed his
>>views about Minix :-). That means that he must be concerned with the
>>most efficient way to get Minix to the student population. At the time
>>Minix was released, Prentice-Hall was a good solution, and has been for
>>some time. However, I must wonder whether or not this is still the case.
>>Dr. Tanenbaum: do you still feel that free distribution of Minix via the
>>net is not the best way to distribute Minix?
>
>I would guess that Prentice-Hall would have some objections :)
No doubt. :-(
--
In article <12615 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>A multithreaded file system is only a performance hack. When there is only
>one job active, the normal case on a small PC, it buys you nothing
I find the single-threaded file system a serious pain when using
Minix. I often want to do something else while reading files from the
--
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: LINUX is obsolete
Date: 5 Feb 92 14:48:48 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vul.nl)
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: linville at garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
In article <12696 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>In article <6121 at skye.ed.ac.uk> richard at aiai.UUCP (Richard Tobin) writes:
>>If you wanted a full-featured Unix with paging, job-control, a window
>>system and so on, would it be quicker to start from basic Minix and
>>add the features, or to start from Linux and fix the 386-specific
>>bits?
--
>Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vul.nl)
Coherent is limited by a compiler that only supports the small memory model,
making it just as difficult (perhaps more in some instances) to port 'standard'
Unix programs to Coherent as it can be under Minix. Also, Coherent is not
portable (or at least, to the best of my knowledge, has not been ported), so
--
In article <12696 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>Another option that seems to be totally forgotten here is buy UNIX or a
>clone. If you just want to USE the system, instead of hacking on its
>internals, you don't need source code. Coherent is only $99, and there
>are various true UNIX systems with more features for more money. For the
--
ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
> Another option that seems to be totally forgotten here is buy UNIX or a
> clone. If you just want to USE the system, instead of hacking on its
> internals, you don't need source code. Coherent is only $99, and there
> are various true UNIX systems with more features for more money. For the
> true hacker, not having source code is fatal, but for people who just
--
In article <12696 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>If you just want to USE the system, instead of hacking on its
>internals, you don't need source code.
Unfortunately hacking on the internals is just what many of us want
the system for... You'll be rid of most of us when BSD-detox or GNU
--
In <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>But in all honesty, I would
>suggest that people who want a **MODERN** "free" OS look around for a
>microkernel-based, portable OS, like maybe GNU or something like that.
--
In article <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
>I was in the U.S. for a couple of weeks, so I haven't commented much on
>LINUX (not that I would have said much had I been around), but for what
>it is worth, I have a couple of comments now.
>
--
>Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
Minix is an excellent piece of work. A good starting point for anyone who
wants to learn about operating systems. But it needs rewriting to make it
truly elegant and functional. As it is, there are too many kludges and
hacks (e.g., the message passing).
--
In article <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
> While I could go into a long story here about the relative merits of the
> two designs, suffice it to say that among the people who actually design
> operating systems, the debate is essentially over. Microkernels have won.
--
>From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
>ftp.cs.vu.nl = 192.31.231.42 in dir minix/simulator.) I think it is a
>gross error to design an OS for any specific architecture, since that is
>not going to be around all that long.
--
In article <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
> MINIX was designed to be reasonably portable, and has been ported from the
> Intel line to the 680x0 (Atari, Amiga, Macintosh), SPARC, and NS32016.
> LINUX is tied fairly closely to the 80x86. Not the way to go.
--
>Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
joe.
--
joe at jshark.rn.com
--
In article <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
>I was in the U.S. for a couple of weeks, so I haven't commented much on
>LINUX (not that I would have said much had I been around), but for what
>it is worth, I have a couple of comments now.
--
"As a user, I'll take speed over features anyday" - A Tanenbaum
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: entropy at wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
In article <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>Don`t get me wrong, I am not unhappy with LINUX. It will get all the people
>who want to turn MINIX in BSD UNIX off my back. But in all honesty, I would
>suggest that people who want a **MODERN** "free" OS look around for a
>microkernel-based, portable OS, like maybe GNU or something like that.
--
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: LINUX is obsolete
Date: 5 Feb 92 23:33:23 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: wolff at neuron.et.tudelft.nl (Rogier Wolff)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>In article <1992Feb5.145630.759 at wpi.WPI.EDU> entropy at wintermute.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>Actually my main problem with OS theorists is that they have never tested
>>there ideas!
>I'm mortally insulted. I AM NOT A THEORIST. Ask anybody who was at our
--
In article <12747 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
> QNX is a microkernel
> based system, and someone just told me the installed base is 200,000 systems.
Oh yes, while I'm on the subject... there are over 3 million Amigas out there,
which means that there are more of them than any UNIX vendor has shipped, and
--
In-Reply-To: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sauna.cs.hut.fi
Reply-To: jkp at cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1992 12:07:46 GMT
In article <12595 at star.cs.vu.nl>, ast at cs (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>who want to turn MINIX in BSD UNIX off my back. But in all honesty, I would
>suggest that people who want a **MODERN** "free" OS look around for a
>microkernel-based, portable OS, like maybe GNU or something like that.
I hear bsd 4.4 might also become free and appear in the near future
--
Andy Tanenbaum:
>MINIX was designed before POSIX, and is now being (slowly) POSIXized as
>everyone who follows this newsgroup knows.
May I recommend the use of the verb "posixiate" (by analogy with
asphyxiate) instead of "posixize"? Similarly, I prefer "ansitise"
--
providing, as Andy Tanenbaum REALLY has, a public service. Even
if he doesn't cater to you.
There, I've had my day. Let's call an end to this
controversy, shall we? If you prefer Linux, go hang out with the
Linux crowd over on (I think) alt.linux. Rag on Minix all you
can stand there. Hanging around in comp.os.minix reeks of low
--
}providing, as Andy Tanenbaum REALLY has, a public service. Even
}if he doesn't cater to you.
Mr. Tanenbaum, though undoubtedly a gifted professor, and undoubtedly
a gifted programmer, is not providing a "PUBLIC SERVICE". MINIX was
written for his students, and AST had the fortune that MINIX caught
on, and has now sold many copies. AST makes money off the deal I am
sure - and if he does not, then I cannot understand why he does not
free the code of copyright, so it can be distributed.
--
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Unhappy campers
Date: 3 Feb 92 22:46:40 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: meulenbr at ce.philips.nl (Frans Meulenbroeks)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>Suppose Fred van Kempen returns from the dead and wants to take over, creating
Just a remark for the readers. As far as I know Fred is not physically dead.
If english is not your native language (just like mine) you might
--
> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
>>Suppose Fred van Kempen returns from the dead and wants to take over, creating
>
> Just a remark for the readers. As far as I know Fred is not physically dead.
> If english is not your native language (just like mine) you might
--
In article <12667 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>As an aside, for those folks who don't read news headers, Linus is in Finland
>and I am in The Netherlands. Are we reaching a situation where another
>critical industry, free software, that had been totally dominated by the U.S.
>is being taken over by the foreign competition? Will we soon see
--
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: Unhappy campers
Date: 6 Feb 92 11:03:51 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: james at fiskville.mc.utexas.edu (James Hammett)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
In article <12667 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>While most people can talk rationally about kernel design and portability,
>the issue of free-ness is 100% emotional. You wouldn't believe how much
>[expletive deleted] I have gotten lately about MINIX not being free. MINIX
>costs $169, but the license allows making two backup copies, so the effective
>price can be under $60. Furthermore, professors may make UNLIMITED copies
--
From: ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: Unhappy campers
Date: 5 Feb 92 23:23:26 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
--
Andy Tanenbaum (ast at cs.vu.nl)
0, unseen,,
*** EOOH ***
From: torvalds at klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
--
In article <12746 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
>If Linus wants to keep control of the official version, and a group of eager
>beavers want to go off in a different direction, the same problem arises.
This is the second time I've seen this "accusation" from ast, who feels
--
Andy Tanenbaum writes:
> >Where is the sizeable group of people that want to evolve gcc in a way that
> >rms/FSF does not approve of?
> A compiler is not something people have much emotional attachment to. If
> the language to be compiled is a given (e.g., an ANSI standard), there isn't
> much room for people to invent new features. An operating system has unlimited
--
>>>>> On 3 Feb 92 22:46:40 GMT, ast at cs.vu.nl (Andrew "Dice" Tanenbaum) said:
Andy> As an aside, for those folks who don't read news headers, Linus is
Andy> in Finland and I am in The Netherlands. Are we reaching a
Andy> situation where another critical industry, free software, that had
Andy> been totally dominated by the U.S. is being taken over by the
--
In article <12667 at star.cs.vu.nl> ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
(most stuffs omitted)
> If you don't have that journal, you can FTP the paper from
> ftp.cs.vu.nl (192.31.231.42) in directory amoeba/papers as comp_sys.tex.Z
> (compressed TeX source) or comp_sys.ps.Z (compressed PostScript).
--
>ast at cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
>
>>Suppose Fred van Kempen returns from the dead and wants to take over, creating
>
>Just a remark for the readers. As far as I know Fred is not physically dead.
>If english is not your native language (just like mine) you might
--
"It is better to deserve honours and not have them than to have them and
not deserve them." - Samuel Clemens
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