From gwadej at anomaly.org  Thu Jan  2 06:13:02 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:13:02 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Making your modules into CPANable distributions
Message-ID: <20140102081302.4fa2dc00@cygnus>

Gabor gives a useful description of the minimum needed for a CPAN-ready
distribution.

http://perlmaven.com/minimal-requirement-to-build-a-sane-cpan-package

If you've never built a module distribution for CPAN or even for your
local work, this is a really minimal way to get started.

G. Wade
-- 
"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote."                              -- Ambassador Kosh, "Believers"

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Jan  7 20:07:25 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:07:25 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] January Houston.pm meeting this Thursday
Message-ID: <20140107220725.78c8f814@cygnus>

Just a quick reminder about Ruth's talk this Thursday.

G. Wade
-- 
Understanding is a three-edged sword.      -- Kosh in "Deathwalker"

From wiersema_t at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  9 16:44:17 2014
From: wiersema_t at yahoo.com (Todd Wiersema)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 16:44:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Attend Online
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1389211203.13613.houston@pm.org>
Message-ID: <1389314657.59173.YahooMailBasic@web120605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Running too late to make the meeting.  Is there a way to attend online? Or is the recording for archive purposes.

Thanks,

Todd
---------------------------------------------
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:07:25 -0600
 From: "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org>
 To: Houston Perl Mongers <houston at pm.org>
 Subject: [pm-h] January Houston.pm meeting this Thursday
 Message-ID: <20140107220725.78c8f814 at cygnus>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
 
 Just a quick reminder about Ruth's talk this Thursday.
 
 G. Wade


From todd at rinaldo.us  Thu Jan  9 17:05:33 2014
From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 19:05:33 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Attend Online
In-Reply-To: <1389314657.59173.YahooMailBasic@web120605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.9.1389211203.13613.houston@pm.org>
	<1389314657.59173.YahooMailBasic@web120605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAG8vyGEvFqqGYyoz+e3cD1=JJnsexVXXtK=Xow7wFzWmnkVftQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think this  link will work for you.

https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcZo7cvieFELbMcw1BuSgjaJxuEyOCISOGg6_DoKGDQLLEvnQ?authuser=0&hl=en

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Todd Wiersema <wiersema_t at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Running too late to make the meeting.  Is there a way to attend online? Or is the recording for archive purposes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>  Message: 1
>  Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:07:25 -0600
>  From: "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org>
>  To: Houston Perl Mongers <houston at pm.org>
>  Subject: [pm-h] January Houston.pm meeting this Thursday
>  Message-ID: <20140107220725.78c8f814 at cygnus>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>  Just a quick reminder about Ruth's talk this Thursday.
>
>  G. Wade
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/



-- 
Todd Rinaldo
todd at rinaldo.us

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sun Jan 12 16:15:04 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:15:04 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Fw: UG News: Get Your Free Books + More from O'Reilly
Message-ID: <20140112181504.7f1c3451@cygnus>



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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 16:00:45 -0800
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To: gwadej at anomaly.org
Subject: UG News: Get Your Free Books + More from O'Reilly 


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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan 13 05:03:33 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 07:03:33 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Ruth's Houston.pm talk referenced on Perl Weekly mailing
	list.
Message-ID: <20140113070333.595ceecc@cygnus>

Thanks to Todd Rinaldo for sending the link to Gabor Szabo.

The video for our most recent technical meeting was announced on the
Perl Weekly (perlweekly.com) mailing list.

G. Wade
-- 
I never let schooling get in the way of my education. -- Mark Twain

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Jan 15 21:17:22 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:17:22 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Call for Presentations for February
Message-ID: <20140115231722.35ba6f3c@cygnus>

It's that time again. Who's up for presenting in February?

As usual, any topic that would be interesting to Perl programmers is
fair game.

G. Wade
-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it.                                            -- Donald Knuth

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Jan 15 21:28:32 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:28:32 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] New Venue for February meeting
Message-ID: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>

HostGator has offered to sponsor the Houston.pm meetings. They are not
replacing cPanel as our sponsor. Instead, they would like to share the
sponsorship.

As a first move, HostGator has offered to host the February meeting at
their offices
(https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+TX&hl=en&ll=29.770636,-95.46381&spn=0.127251,0.184021&sll=29.826944,-95.464325&sspn=0.254358,0.368042&t=h&hnear=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+Texas+77092&z=13).

Obviously, any change in location is going to be easier for some and
more difficult for others. I would appreciate any input about this
change.

If all goes well, we will probably alternate between the two locations
(cPanel and HostGator).

G. Wade
-- 
Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add but when
there is nothing more to take out.       -- Antoine de Saint Exupery

From druthb at gmail.com  Wed Jan 15 21:31:22 2014
From: druthb at gmail.com (D Ruth Bavousett)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 23:31:22 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] New Venue for February meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
References: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
Message-ID: <CAENjnDwTV=Yph3xgo5zQLw0bKYTwrLXhtqzv94E8aZx0bCizSw@mail.gmail.com>

It's a *little* farther from home for me, but not too much; I'm fine with
it!

re: your earlier message about a presenter--not it!  :)

--D Ruth B


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:28 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org>wrote:

> HostGator has offered to sponsor the Houston.pm meetings. They are not
> replacing cPanel as our sponsor. Instead, they would like to share the
> sponsorship.
>
> As a first move, HostGator has offered to host the February meeting at
> their offices
> (
> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+TX&hl=en&ll=29.770636,-95.46381&spn=0.127251,0.184021&sll=29.826944,-95.464325&sspn=0.254358,0.368042&t=h&hnear=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+Texas+77092&z=13
> ).
>
> Obviously, any change in location is going to be easier for some and
> more difficult for others. I would appreciate any input about this
> change.
>
> If all goes well, we will probably alternate between the two locations
> (cPanel and HostGator).
>
> G. Wade
> --
> Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add but when
> there is nothing more to take out.       -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From toddr at cpanel.net  Thu Jan 16 07:55:21 2014
From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 09:55:21 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] New Venue for February meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAENjnDwTV=Yph3xgo5zQLw0bKYTwrLXhtqzv94E8aZx0bCizSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
	<CAENjnDwTV=Yph3xgo5zQLw0bKYTwrLXhtqzv94E8aZx0bCizSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8065B633-D319-450C-A75A-9D0311CA5CBF@cpanel.net>


On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:31 PM, D Ruth Bavousett <druthb at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's a *little* farther from home for me, but not too much; I'm fine with it!
> 
> re: your earlier message about a presenter--not it!  :)
> 
> --D Ruth B
> 

A Change of scenery is always good. I?m cool with it.


From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 16 08:25:50 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 08:25:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] New Venue for February meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
References: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
Message-ID: <1389889550.55993.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I know I haven't been in a while, but it looks like that location is a bit closer to my office than 3333 W Alabama. ?So that's nice.

Mark



On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:28 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
 
HostGator has offered to sponsor the Houston.pm meetings. They are not
replacing cPanel as our sponsor. Instead, they would like to share the
sponsorship.

As a first move, HostGator has offered to host the February meeting at
their offices
(https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+TX&hl=en&ll=29.770636,-95.46381&spn=0.127251,0.184021&sll=29.826944,-95.464325&sspn=0.254358,0.368042&t=h&hnear=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+Texas+77092&z=13).

Obviously, any change in location is going to be easier for some and
more difficult for others. I would appreciate any input about this
change.

If all goes well, we will probably alternate between the two locations
(cPanel and HostGator).

G. Wade
-- 
Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add but when
there is nothing more to take out.? ? ?  -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From estrabd at gmail.com  Thu Jan 16 08:40:08 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 10:40:08 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] New Venue for February meeting
In-Reply-To: <1389889550.55993.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
	<1389889550.55993.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALSf6fQ0wg08xM0B_aJUb4Pq2vqfbNaiCtcwqK0jwTW_k49Ltg@mail.gmail.com>

s/3333/3131/

Brett


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I know I haven't been in a while, but it looks like that location is a bit
> closer to my office than 3333 W Alabama.  So that's nice.
>
> Mark
>
>
>   On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:28 PM, G. Wade Johnson <
> gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
>  HostGator has offered to sponsor the Houston.pm meetings. They are not
> replacing cPanel as our sponsor. Instead, they would like to share the
> sponsorship.
>
> As a first move, HostGator has offered to host the February meeting at
> their offices
> (
> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+TX&hl=en&ll=29.770636,-95.46381&spn=0.127251,0.184021&sll=29.826944,-95.464325&sspn=0.254358,0.368042&t=h&hnear=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+Texas+77092&z=13
> ).
>
> Obviously, any change in location is going to be easier for some and
> more difficult for others. I would appreciate any input about this
> change.
>
> If all goes well, we will probably alternate between the two locations
> (cPanel and HostGator).
>
> G. Wade
> --
> Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add but when
> there is nothing more to take out.      -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 16 10:27:48 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 12:27:48 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] New Venue for February meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
References: <20140115232832.06e7dee6@cygnus>
Message-ID: <5E58ABDFD68C4D16BA0368C7B75224E6@CHEETAH>

Turns out that HostGator is just down the street from me ... so I like that.

Fraser

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org>
To: "Houston Perl Mongers" <houston at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:28 PM
Subject: [pm-h] New Venue for February meeting


> HostGator has offered to sponsor the Houston.pm meetings. They are not
> replacing cPanel as our sponsor. Instead, they would like to share the
> sponsorship.
>
> As a first move, HostGator has offered to host the February meeting at
> their offices
> (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+TX&hl=en&ll=29.770636,-95.46381&spn=0.127251,0.184021&sll=29.826944,-95.464325&sspn=0.254358,0.368042&t=h&hnear=5005+Mitchelldale+St+%23100,+Houston,+Texas+77092&z=13).
>
> Obviously, any change in location is going to be easier for some and
> more difficult for others. I would appreciate any input about this
> change.
>
> If all goes well, we will probably alternate between the two locations
> (cPanel and HostGator).
>
> G. Wade
> -- 
> Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add but when
> there is nothing more to take out.       -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 


From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sun Jan 19 08:03:33 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:03:33 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] February Meeting Topic?
Message-ID: <20140119100333.4d06f0c5@cygnus>

I know it's still a few weeks away, but we still need a topic for the
February meeting.

Anyone interested in presenting on a topic should either email the list
or contact me directly.

Remember that the topic only has to be something of interest to Perl
programmers. Although that includes Perl topics, it isn't only Perl.

If you are not willing to make a presentation, but have a topic you
would like to hear about, email the list. Maybe someone will take up
the challenge.

I look forward to seeing what you have in mind.
G. Wade
-- 
There will always be things we wish to say in our programs that in all
known languages can only be said poorly.             -- Alan Perlis

From todd at rinaldo.us  Sun Jan 19 08:14:58 2014
From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:14:58 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] February Meeting Topic?
In-Reply-To: <20140119100333.4d06f0c5@cygnus>
References: <20140119100333.4d06f0c5@cygnus>
Message-ID: <CAG8vyGE6Yqj_G3oP-zAi=BhWCPa6BWsC+O_Thn6YJae-sSXS6w@mail.gmail.com>

I suggest short talks. on numerous subjects.

I've gotten into SPAM handling for domains. I could probably present
5-15 minutes on what I've learned about Mail::SpamAssassin. I'd be
interested to hear what others know about it too.

Maybe a Lightning meeting?

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:03 AM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
> I know it's still a few weeks away, but we still need a topic for the
> February meeting.
>
> Anyone interested in presenting on a topic should either email the list
> or contact me directly.
>
> Remember that the topic only has to be something of interest to Perl
> programmers. Although that includes Perl topics, it isn't only Perl.
>
> If you are not willing to make a presentation, but have a topic you
> would like to hear about, email the list. Maybe someone will take up
> the challenge.
>
> I look forward to seeing what you have in mind.
> G. Wade
> --
> There will always be things we wish to say in our programs that in all
> known languages can only be said poorly.             -- Alan Perlis
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/



-- 
Todd Rinaldo
todd at rinaldo.us

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sun Jan 19 09:11:51 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:11:51 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] February Meeting Topic?
In-Reply-To: <CAG8vyGE6Yqj_G3oP-zAi=BhWCPa6BWsC+O_Thn6YJae-sSXS6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140119100333.4d06f0c5@cygnus>
	<CAG8vyGE6Yqj_G3oP-zAi=BhWCPa6BWsC+O_Thn6YJae-sSXS6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140119111151.2722e2cf@cygnus>

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:14:58 -0600
Todd Rinaldo <todd at rinaldo.us> wrote:

> I suggest short talks. on numerous subjects.
> 
> I've gotten into SPAM handling for domains. I could probably present
> 5-15 minutes on what I've learned about Mail::SpamAssassin. I'd be
> interested to hear what others know about it too.
> 
> Maybe a Lightning meeting?

That's a good idea, Todd. We haven't had anything like that in a while.

If we can gather together a few short presentations, we could use those
if no one has a big topic to present.

G. Wade


> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:03 AM, G. Wade Johnson
> <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
> > I know it's still a few weeks away, but we still need a topic for
> > the February meeting.
> >
> > Anyone interested in presenting on a topic should either email the
> > list or contact me directly.
> >
> > Remember that the topic only has to be something of interest to Perl
> > programmers. Although that includes Perl topics, it isn't only Perl.
> >
> > If you are not willing to make a presentation, but have a topic you
> > would like to hear about, email the list. Maybe someone will take up
> > the challenge.
> >
> > I look forward to seeing what you have in mind.
> > G. Wade
> > --
> > There will always be things we wish to say in our programs that in
> > all known languages can only be said poorly.             -- Alan
> > Perlis _______________________________________________
> > Houston mailing list
> > Houston at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> > Website: http://houston.pm.org/
> 
> 
> 


-- 
In any sufficiently large group of people, most are idiots.
                                                        -- Kaa's Law

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Jan 20 17:04:55 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:04:55 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Fw: UG News: Get Your Free Books + More from O'Reilly
Message-ID: <20140120190455.07a13d8f@cygnus>



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Necessary"
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Jan 21 20:57:38 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:57:38 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] February Meeting at HostGator: Pseudo-Random Number
 Generation - How it Works, What the CIA Knows,
 and What Options Exist in Perl?
Message-ID: <20140121225738.156ac37d@cygnus>

Robert Stone will discuss pseudo-random number generation and Perl
modules generating pseudo-random numbers. Given recent news about three
letter agencies and random numbers, this should be a fascinating
talk.

HostGator will sponsor the meeting this month, so we will be meeting
at their offices at 5005 Mitchelldale St #100, Houston, TX 77092,
(https://maps.google.com/maps?q=HostGator,+Houston&fb=1&gl=us&hq=HostGator,&hnear=0x8640b8b4488d8501:0xca0d02def365053b,Houston,+TX&cid=2141572779937723859&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A)
on Thursday, February 13 at 7pm.

I look forward to seeing everyone there.
G. Wade
-- 
"any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from a Perl
script."                               -- Programming Perl, 2nd ed.

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Jan 21 20:59:52 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:59:52 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] March Meeting at cPanel: Indexing Stuff & Things with Sphinx
 and Perl
Message-ID: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>

Brett Estrade has volunteered to present about Sphinx indexing system.

The other interesting aspect he will address which ties it all together
is that a Sphinx configuration file can be an executable that emits the
config syntax to STDOUT (e.g., a Perl script).

Brett says that his talk may not take the whole hour, so I'm thinking
that we could add Todd's short talk about SPAM handling with
Mail::SpamAssassin.

Since that's still a month away, we can refine this a bit before then.

G. Wade
-- 
To vacillate or not to vacillate, that is the question ... or is it?

From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 23 14:07:23 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>
Message-ID: <1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Perl Folks,
I've never really used Perl for processes that run for a very long time.? But, I'm moving around and processing data on the scale of millions and millions.? 
?
My issue is that I have a memory leak somewhere.
?
I think it's in a statement like this.
?
my $profile=XXX::Profiles::Profile->new(name=>$name, parent=>$self);

where it is?important for the child object to know who's it's parent is.? But, I guess the?garbage collector is not cleaning this up when both the parent and child go out of scope.
?
I don't think this is a "circular" reference (I called it a tree; like family tree) but it's all I've got as to an inkling of an idea of where my memory leak might be.
?
Is this the use case for weaken?? If so, where would you put the weaken statement, in the parent or the child.
?
for example in parent 
?
weaken $profile->{"parent"}; #but now the parent has to know about the internals of the child
?
in the child
?
sub new {
...
?weaken $self->{"parent"} if (exists($self->{"parent"}) and?ref($self->{"parent"})); #don't want to auto vivify.
}
?
Am I correct in thinking this is a use case of weaken at all?
?
It also bothers me that Fedora appears to not get all of the memory back after the Perl process terminates.? Is that common?
?
Thanks,
Mike
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From mikeflan at att.net  Thu Jan 23 17:37:18 2014
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 19:37:18 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Activestate Perl 5.16
Message-ID: <52E1C3CE.8020402@att.net>


Not that anybody cares, but I recently upgraded from
Activestate Perl 5.8 to Activestate Perl 5.16 (64 bit)
on my Win7 machine.  The PPM version 4 is nice and
Perl runs noticeably faster.

I hope somebody answers that weaken question.  That
is way over my head.


Mike


From gwadej at anomaly.org  Thu Jan 23 17:30:47 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 19:30:47 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>
	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>

On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:07:23 -0800 (PST)
"Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Perl Folks,
> I've never really used Perl for processes that run for a very long
> time.? But, I'm moving around and processing data on the scale of
> millions and millions. My issue is that I have a memory leak
> somewhere. 
> I think it's in a statement like this.
> ?
> my $profile=XXX::Profiles::Profile->new(name=>$name, parent=>$self);
> 
> where it is?important for the child object to know who's it's parent
> is.? But, I guess the?garbage collector is not cleaning this up when
> both the parent and child go out of scope. I don't think this is a
> "circular" reference (I called it a tree; like family tree) but it's

If I'm understanding you, that's the definition of a circular reference.

     parent -> child -> parent

In this case, the parent owns the child and the child owns the parent.
You should weaken the child's reference to the parent (because the
child doesn't own the parent.)

> all I've got as to an inkling of an idea of where my memory leak
> might be. Is this the use case for weaken?? If so, where would you
> put the weaken statement, in the parent or the child. for example in
> parent 
> weaken $profile->{"parent"}; #but now the parent has to know about
> the internals of the child 
> in the child

I would do the weaken in the the child. You are passing the parent
reference to the child. The child knows that it doesn't need to own the
parent reference, so the child should weaken the reference.

> sub new {
> ...
> ?weaken $self->{"parent"} if (exists($self->{"parent"})
> and?ref($self->{"parent"})); #don't want to auto vivify. }
> ?
> Am I correct in thinking this is a use case of weaken at all?
> ?
> It also bothers me that Fedora appears to not get all of the memory
> back after the Perl process terminates.? Is that common? 

How are you determining whether Fedora "gets all of the memory back"?

G. Wade
-- 
When they first built the University of California at Irvine they just
put the buildings in. They did not put any sidewalks, they just planted
grass. The next year, they came back and put the sidewalks where the
trails were in the grass. Perl is just that kind of language. It is not
designed from first principles. Perl is those sidewalks in the grass.
                                                       -- Larry Wall

From todd at rinaldo.us  Thu Jan 23 20:23:29 2014
From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 22:23:29 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Activestate Perl 5.16
In-Reply-To: <52E1C3CE.8020402@att.net>
References: <52E1C3CE.8020402@att.net>
Message-ID: <CAG8vyGGwf6XTktA=0=-4bkRaTLsHKFHsA6fwFxFCeL=icUs-Ww@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting... Both OSX and Red Hat 7 are also perl 5.16.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Mike Flannigan <mikeflan at att.net> wrote:
>
> Not that anybody cares, but I recently upgraded from
> Activestate Perl 5.8 to Activestate Perl 5.16 (64 bit)
> on my Win7 machine.  The PPM version 4 is nice and
> Perl runs noticeably faster.
>
> I hope somebody answers that weaken question.  That
> is way over my head.
>
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/



-- 
Todd Rinaldo
todd at rinaldo.us

From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 23 20:30:16 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:30:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>
Message-ID: <1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

G. Wade,
?
>> My issue is that I have a memory leak
>> I think it's in a statement like this.
>> ?
>> my $profile=XXX::Profiles::Profile->new(name=>$name, parent=>$self);
>> 
>> where it is?important for the child object to know who's it's parent
>> is.? But, I guess the?garbage collector is not cleaning this up when
>> both the parent and child go out of scope. I don't think this is a
>> "circular" reference (I called it a tree; like family tree) but it's
>
> If I'm understanding you, that's the definition of a circular reference.
>
>? ???parent -> child -> parent

Yep, that's exactly what I have.? I guess this?Engineer needs to study up on 
that computer science lingo.
?
>
> In this case, the parent owns the child and the child owns the parent.
>You should weaken the child's reference to the parent (because the
> child doesn't own the parent.)
> 
> I would do the weaken in the the child. You are passing the parent
> reference to the child. The child knows that it doesn't need to own the
> parent reference, so the child should weaken the reference.
?
I will try weakening in the children.? 
?
>> It also bothers me that Fedora appears to not get all of the memory
>> back after the Perl process terminates.? Is that common? 

> How are you determining whether Fedora "gets all of the memory back"?

`top -c` then "<" to sort by memory.
?
This appears to be this bug.? So, unrelated but hurts just the same.
?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=473547
Bug 473547 - console-kit-daemon huge memory allocation 
?
Thanks,
Mike
?
mrdvt92

From todd at rinaldo.us  Thu Jan 23 20:44:29 2014
From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 22:44:29 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>
	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>
	<1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAG8vyGF=vmBzy=RAg+75bpD2Q+aX2N9CGf-qS+VrbzzLLsnaZA@mail.gmail.com>

Wade's advice is good so I don't have much to add to the fix.

My 2 cents is that in past when I've had to use weaken, it usually
points to a design issue or a paradigm I've not gotten with my code.
If possible, you might ask if you could change your class layout to
avoid this problem. YMMV.

It also sounds like an interesting problem. Would you be interested in
talking about it at the meeting next month?

On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:30 PM, Michael R. Davis <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> G. Wade,
>
>>> My issue is that I have a memory leak
>>> I think it's in a statement like this.
>>>
>>> my $profile=XXX::Profiles::Profile->new(name=>$name, parent=>$self);
>>>
>>> where it is important for the child object to know who's it's parent
>>> is.  But, I guess the garbage collector is not cleaning this up when
>>> both the parent and child go out of scope. I don't think this is a
>>> "circular" reference (I called it a tree; like family tree) but it's
>>
>> If I'm understanding you, that's the definition of a circular reference.
>>
>>     parent -> child -> parent
>
> Yep, that's exactly what I have.  I guess this Engineer needs to study up on
> that computer science lingo.
>
>>
>> In this case, the parent owns the child and the child owns the parent.
>>You should weaken the child's reference to the parent (because the
>> child doesn't own the parent.)
>>
>> I would do the weaken in the the child. You are passing the parent
>> reference to the child. The child knows that it doesn't need to own the
>> parent reference, so the child should weaken the reference.
>
> I will try weakening in the children.
>
>>> It also bothers me that Fedora appears to not get all of the memory
>>> back after the Perl process terminates.  Is that common?
>
>> How are you determining whether Fedora "gets all of the memory back"?
>
> `top -c` then "<" to sort by memory.
>
> This appears to be this bug.  So, unrelated but hurts just the same.
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=473547
> Bug 473547 - console-kit-daemon huge memory allocation
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> mrdvt92
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/



-- 
Todd Rinaldo
todd at rinaldo.us

From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 23 20:51:49 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>
	<1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1390539109.5590.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

>> I would do the weaken in the the child. You are passing the parent
>> reference to the child. The child knows that it doesn't need to own the
>> parent reference, so the child should weaken the reference.
>
> I will try weakening in the children.??

It's nice that all my children inherit from one Base object.

I think this is all I need to do.

$ svn diff
Index: lib/XXX/Base.pm
===================================================================
--- lib/XXX/Base.pm??? (revision 3433)
+++ lib/XXX/Base.pm??? (working copy)
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
?package XXX::Base;
+use Scalar::Util qw{weaken};
?use base qw{Package::New};
?use strict;
?use warnings;
@@ -23,6 +24,25 @@
?=head1 USAGE
+
+=head2 initialize
+
+Provides automatic weakening of the parent property.
+
+=cut
+
+sub initialize {
+? my $self=shift;
+? %$self=@_;
+? weaken($self->{"parent"})
+??? if (exists($self->{"parent"}) and ref($self->{"parent"}));
+? return;
+}
+
+
?=head1 METHODS
?=head2 parent
@@ -31,7 +51,10 @@
?sub parent {
?? my $self=shift;
-? $self->{"parent"}=shift if @_;
+? if (@_) {
+??? $self->{"parent"}=shift;
+??? weaken($self->{"parent"});
+? }
?? return defined($self->{"parent"}) ? $self->{"parent"} : $self;
?}

From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 23 20:51:49 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>
	<1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1390539109.5590.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

>> I would do the weaken in the the child. You are passing the parent
>> reference to the child. The child knows that it doesn't need to own the
>> parent reference, so the child should weaken the reference.
>
> I will try weakening in the children.??

It's nice that all my children inherit from one Base object.

I think this is all I need to do.

$ svn diff
Index: lib/XXX/Base.pm
===================================================================
--- lib/XXX/Base.pm??? (revision 3433)
+++ lib/XXX/Base.pm??? (working copy)
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
?package XXX::Base;
+use Scalar::Util qw{weaken};
?use base qw{Package::New};
?use strict;
?use warnings;
@@ -23,6 +24,25 @@
?=head1 USAGE
+
+=head2 initialize
+
+Provides automatic weakening of the parent property.
+
+=cut
+
+sub initialize {
+? my $self=shift;
+? %$self=@_;
+? weaken($self->{"parent"})
+??? if (exists($self->{"parent"}) and ref($self->{"parent"}));
+? return;
+}
+
+
?=head1 METHODS
?=head2 parent
@@ -31,7 +51,10 @@
?sub parent {
?? my $self=shift;
-? $self->{"parent"}=shift if @_;
+? if (@_) {
+??? $self->{"parent"}=shift;
+??? weaken($self->{"parent"});
+? }
?? return defined($self->{"parent"}) ? $self->{"parent"} : $self;
?}

From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 24 06:44:41 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:44:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <CAG8vyGF=vmBzy=RAg+75bpD2Q+aX2N9CGf-qS+VrbzzLLsnaZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>	<1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAG8vyGF=vmBzy=RAg+75bpD2Q+aX2N9CGf-qS+VrbzzLLsnaZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1390574681.54245.YahooMailNeo@web121001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

>>
>> If I'm understanding you, that's the definition of a circular reference.
>>
>>? ?  parent -> child -> parent
>

Can't locate object method "cfg" via package "XXX::Profiles::Profile" at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.10.0/XXX/Profiles/Profile.pm line 112.
?
So, weaken must not work like I think.? The child has lost the link to the parent.? I guess the child to parent link is more important than the parent to child relationship.? Maybe I need to weaken the parent ref.? Maybe as Todd suggested I need to re-think the architecture.
?
For now I'm going to exit after a few loops and restart on cron with Sys::RunAlone or something like that.
?
Maybe I need to use a DESTROY block and undef($self->{"parent"}) in it.? Anyone know the gotchas on DESTROY?
?
Thanks,
Mike

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Fri Jan 24 07:09:36 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 09:09:36 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>
	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>
	<1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140124090936.284cfd72@cygnus>

On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:30:16 -0800 (PST)
"Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> G. Wade,
> ?
> >> My issue is that I have a memory leak
> >> I think it's in a statement like this.
> >> ?
> >> my $profile=XXX::Profiles::Profile->new(name=>$name,
> >> parent=>$self);
> >> 
> >> where it is?important for the child object to know who's it's
> >> parent is.? But, I guess the?garbage collector is not cleaning
> >> this up when both the parent and child go out of scope. I don't
> >> think this is a "circular" reference (I called it a tree; like
> >> family tree) but it's
> >
> > If I'm understanding you, that's the definition of a circular
> > reference.
> >
> >? ???parent -> child -> parent
> 
> Yep, that's exactly what I have.? I guess this?Engineer needs to
> study up on that computer science lingo.

<grin/>If this engineer could do it, you know it's possible.


> > In this case, the parent owns the child and the child owns the
> > parent.
> >You should weaken the child's reference to the parent (because the
> > child doesn't own the parent.)
> > 
> > I would do the weaken in the the child. You are passing the parent
> > reference to the child. The child knows that it doesn't need to own
> > the parent reference, so the child should weaken the reference.
> ?
> I will try weakening in the children.? 
> ?
> >> It also bothers me that Fedora appears to not get all of the memory
> >> back after the Perl process terminates.? Is that common? 
> 
> > How are you determining whether Fedora "gets all of the memory
> > back"?
> 
> `top -c` then "<" to sort by memory.
> ?
> This appears to be this bug.? So, unrelated but hurts just the same.
> ?
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=473547
> Bug 473547 - console-kit-daemon huge memory allocation 

G. Wade
-- 
Be a good ancestor.                                   -- Jonas Salk

From toddr at cpanel.net  Fri Jan 24 07:12:08 2014
From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 09:12:08 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <1390574681.54245.YahooMailNeo@web121001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>	<1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAG8vyGF=vmBzy=RAg+75bpD2Q+aX2N9CGf-qS+VrbzzLLsnaZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1390574681.54245.YahooMailNeo@web121001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D59471BB-6385-431B-9CBF-330E273AF314@cpanel.net>


On Jan 24, 2014, at 8:44 AM, Michael R. Davis <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> 
>>> If I'm understanding you, that's the definition of a circular reference.
>>> 
>>>      parent -> child -> parent
>> 
> 
> Can't locate object method "cfg" via package "XXX::Profiles::Profile" at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.10.0/XXX/Profiles/Profile.pm line 112.
>  
> So, weaken must not work like I think.  The child has lost the link to the parent.  I guess the child to parent link is more important than the parent to child relationship.  Maybe I need to weaken the parent ref.  Maybe as Todd suggested I need to re-think the architecture.
>  
> For now I'm going to exit after a few loops and restart on cron with Sys::RunAlone or something like that.
>  
> Maybe I need to use a DESTROY block and undef($self->{"parent"}) in it.  Anyone know the gotchas on DESTROY?
>  

weaken =~ ?lower the reference count by one"

At a glance from the code I saw, you were weakening too much. The way that works is Perl keeps a count of all the things that point to a piece of information. When it drops to zero, the variable is destroyed. The code I saw had 2 occurrences of weaken. It?s likely you?ll need to carefully craft it so only one side weakens.


From gwadej at anomaly.org  Fri Jan 24 07:20:50 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 09:20:50 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] When to use "weaken"?
In-Reply-To: <1390574681.54245.YahooMailNeo@web121001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140121225952.04c8c3af@cygnus>
	<1390514843.53823.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140123193047.796abf93@cygnus>
	<1390537816.13323.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAG8vyGF=vmBzy=RAg+75bpD2Q+aX2N9CGf-qS+VrbzzLLsnaZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1390574681.54245.YahooMailNeo@web121001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140124092050.437cb5dd@cygnus>

On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:44:41 -0800 (PST)
"Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> >>
> >> If I'm understanding you, that's the definition of a circular
> >> reference.
> >>
> >>? ?  parent -> child -> parent
> >
> 
> Can't locate object method "cfg" via package "XXX::Profiles::Profile"
> at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.10.0/XXX/Profiles/Profile.pm line
> 112. So, weaken must not work like I think.? The child has lost the
> link to the parent.? I guess the child to parent link is more
> important than the parent to child relationship.? Maybe I need to
> weaken the parent ref.? Maybe as Todd suggested I need to re-think
> the architecture. For now I'm going to exit after a few loops and
> restart on cron with Sys::RunAlone or something like that. Maybe I
> need to use a DESTROY block and undef($self->{"parent"}) in it.
> Anyone know the gotchas on DESTROY? Thanks, Mike

I'm not sure, but your initialize function raises a few red flags for
me. It would depend on how you use it, but it appears to replace
everything in the $self hash. Are you sure that's what you want? What
does your new method look like?

From what I could see, you have a parent setter method as well as
initialize. This is probably a bad idea. I prefer to keep as much of my
internal data initialize-only or only handled by object methods. Adding
setter-type methods seems to spread responsibility around and increase
the possibility of stomping on class-invariants.

I've used the DESTROY/undef approach before without problems. I know a
few people have reported difficulties with DESTROY blocks, but I've
never seen them myself.

Getting back to Todd's advice, why do you need the parent link in the
child?

I'm not saying that it is wrong (I've written quite a bit of code that
does things like this.), but it is a potential source of memory issues.
So, it seems reasonable to make certain that it is needed.

Sorry for the blast of questions. This seems like an interesting
problem and I'd like to help you get it fixed.

G. Wade
-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in
practice, there is.                   -- Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Jan 28 07:21:17 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:21:17 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Parking at HostGator for the February meeting
Message-ID: <20140128092117.4e0071dc@cygnus>

The parking for the February meeting is behind the building. It's shown
as a red box in the image on our website: http://houston.pm.org/

Looking forward to seeing you there.
G. Wade
-- 
"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote."                              -- Ambassador Kosh, "Believers"

From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 28 17:39:06 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 19:39:06 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
Message-ID: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>

Hi:

I asked the group a while back about how to change the shebang to the linux version on a Windows box running Apache. There seemed to be consensus that it could be done, but I can't figure it out. Someone said something about doing it thru Apache?

I am moving over towards installing my application of a linux box, but for some reason want to keep developing on a Windows box ... OK so I am a little schitzo.

Any comments?

Fraser
-------------- next part --------------
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From todd at rinaldo.us  Tue Jan 28 19:01:30 2014
From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 21:01:30 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I asked the group a while back about how to change the shebang to the linux
> version on a Windows box running Apache.
Can you re-state this? There is no linux version on a windows box. I'm
guessing you mean the perl version? do you have multiple perl
versions? If so what do you have?


>There seemed to be consensus that
> it could be done, but I can't figure it out. Someone said something about
> doing it thru Apache?
It depends on how you're running your scripts? I think you're using
cgi perl and I think the perl to use is specified by file extension on
windows if I remember correctly. But I'm hearing you say you've moved
your server over to Linux so your question is no clear.

> I am moving over towards installing my application of a linux box, but for
> some reason want to keep developing on a Windows box ... OK so I am a little
> schitzo.
Nothing wrong with this. But you need to be much more verbose and
start at the beginning. I'm sure we can help if you give us all the
details.

From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 29 03:34:40 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 05:34:40 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>
	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH>

This is the "windows" version of the shebang.  This line is necessary for 
the script to run even in window.
#!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe

What I want to do is to replace this line with the linux version or path to 
perl yet it still run on the windows machine.

Fraser


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Rinaldo" <todd at rinaldo.us>
To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang


> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> 
> wrote:
>>
>> I asked the group a while back about how to change the shebang to the 
>> linux
>> version on a Windows box running Apache.
> Can you re-state this? There is no linux version on a windows box. I'm
> guessing you mean the perl version? do you have multiple perl
> versions? If so what do you have?
>
>
>>There seemed to be consensus that
>> it could be done, but I can't figure it out. Someone said something about
>> doing it thru Apache?
> It depends on how you're running your scripts? I think you're using
> cgi perl and I think the perl to use is specified by file extension on
> windows if I remember correctly. But I'm hearing you say you've moved
> your server over to Linux so your question is no clear.
>
>> I am moving over towards installing my application of a linux box, but 
>> for
>> some reason want to keep developing on a Windows box ... OK so I am a 
>> little
>> schitzo.
> Nothing wrong with this. But you need to be much more verbose and
> start at the beginning. I'm sure we can help if you give us all the
> details.
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 


From mikeflan at att.net  Wed Jan 29 04:27:24 2014
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 06:27:24 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>


Let me point out something that I suspect you all already
know.  I run Perl on my personal Win7 machine and I don't
need a shebang at all - at least not in the Perl script.
When I upload a Perl script to my HostGator site, which
is a Linux based server I need the following shebang at
the top:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w

Now I'll sit quietly and probably learn a thing or two from
what others post about this subject.


Mike



On 1/29/2014 5:34 AM, Fraser Baker wrote:
> This is the "windows" version of the shebang.  This line is necessary 
> for the script to run even in window.
> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>
> What I want to do is to replace this line with the linux version or 
> path to perl yet it still run on the windows machine.
>
> Fraser
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Rinaldo" <todd at rinaldo.us>
> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 9:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>
>
>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I asked the group a while back about how to change the shebang to 
>>> the linux
>>> version on a Windows box running Apache.
>> Can you re-state this? There is no linux version on a windows box. I'm
>> guessing you mean the perl version? do you have multiple perl
>> versions? If so what do you have?
>>
>>
>>> There seemed to be consensus that
>>> it could be done, but I can't figure it out. Someone said something 
>>> about
>>> doing it thru Apache?
>> It depends on how you're running your scripts? I think you're using
>> cgi perl and I think the perl to use is specified by file extension on
>> windows if I remember correctly. But I'm hearing you say you've moved
>> your server over to Linux so your question is no clear.
>>
>>> I am moving over towards installing my application of a linux box, 
>>> but for
>>> some reason want to keep developing on a Windows box ... OK so I am 
>>> a little
>>> schitzo.
>> Nothing wrong with this. But you need to be much more verbose and
>> start at the beginning. I'm sure we can help if you give us all the
>> details.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Houston mailing list
>> Houston at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>


From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 29 04:59:52 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 06:59:52 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com><7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH>
	<52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>
Message-ID: <D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH>

Thanks.

That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the "Windows" 
shebang from the first line, which is

#!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe

the script fails.

The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What else do 
I need to do or not do?

Fraser

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
To: <houston at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang


>
> Let me point out something that I suspect you all already
> know.  I run Perl on my personal Win7 machine and I don't
> need a shebang at all - at least not in the Perl script.
> When I upload a Perl script to my HostGator site, which
> is a Linux based server I need the following shebang at
> the top:
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>
> Now I'll sit quietly and probably learn a thing or two from
> what others post about this subject.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On 1/29/2014 5:34 AM, Fraser Baker wrote:
>> This is the "windows" version of the shebang.  This line is necessary for 
>> the script to run even in window.
>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>>
>> What I want to do is to replace this line with the linux version or path 
>> to perl yet it still run on the windows machine.
>>
>> Fraser
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Rinaldo" <todd at rinaldo.us>
>> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 9:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I asked the group a while back about how to change the shebang to the 
>>>> linux
>>>> version on a Windows box running Apache.
>>> Can you re-state this? There is no linux version on a windows box. I'm
>>> guessing you mean the perl version? do you have multiple perl
>>> versions? If so what do you have?
>>>
>>>
>>>> There seemed to be consensus that
>>>> it could be done, but I can't figure it out. Someone said something 
>>>> about
>>>> doing it thru Apache?
>>> It depends on how you're running your scripts? I think you're using
>>> cgi perl and I think the perl to use is specified by file extension on
>>> windows if I remember correctly. But I'm hearing you say you've moved
>>> your server over to Linux so your question is no clear.
>>>
>>>> I am moving over towards installing my application of a linux box, but 
>>>> for
>>>> some reason want to keep developing on a Windows box ... OK so I am a 
>>>> little
>>>> schitzo.
>>> Nothing wrong with this. But you need to be much more verbose and
>>> start at the beginning. I'm sure we can help if you give us all the
>>> details.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Houston mailing list
>>> Houston at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Houston mailing list
>> Houston at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 


From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 29 14:13:20 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 16:13:20 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com><7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH><52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>
	<D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH>

I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl does not 
appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot be found?? Any 
comments?

Fraser

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang


> Thanks.
>
> That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the "Windows" 
> shebang from the first line, which is
>
> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>
> the script fails.
>
> The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What else 
> do I need to do or not do?
>
> Fraser
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
> To: <houston at pm.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>
>
>>
>> Let me point out something that I suspect you all already
>> know.  I run Perl on my personal Win7 machine and I don't
>> need a shebang at all - at least not in the Perl script.
>> When I upload a Perl script to my HostGator site, which
>> is a Linux based server I need the following shebang at
>> the top:
>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>>
>> Now I'll sit quietly and probably learn a thing or two from
>> what others post about this subject.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/29/2014 5:34 AM, Fraser Baker wrote:
>>> This is the "windows" version of the shebang.  This line is necessary 
>>> for the script to run even in window.
>>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>>>
>>> What I want to do is to replace this line with the linux version or path 
>>> to perl yet it still run on the windows machine.
>>>
>>> Fraser
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Rinaldo" <todd at rinaldo.us>
>>> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 9:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked the group a while back about how to change the shebang to the 
>>>>> linux
>>>>> version on a Windows box running Apache.
>>>> Can you re-state this? There is no linux version on a windows box. I'm
>>>> guessing you mean the perl version? do you have multiple perl
>>>> versions? If so what do you have?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There seemed to be consensus that
>>>>> it could be done, but I can't figure it out. Someone said something 
>>>>> about
>>>>> doing it thru Apache?
>>>> It depends on how you're running your scripts? I think you're using
>>>> cgi perl and I think the perl to use is specified by file extension on
>>>> windows if I remember correctly. But I'm hearing you say you've moved
>>>> your server over to Linux so your question is no clear.
>>>>
>>>>> I am moving over towards installing my application of a linux box, but 
>>>>> for
>>>>> some reason want to keep developing on a Windows box ... OK so I am a 
>>>>> little
>>>>> schitzo.
>>>> Nothing wrong with this. But you need to be much more verbose and
>>>> start at the beginning. I'm sure we can help if you give us all the
>>>> details.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Houston mailing list
>>>> Houston at pm.org
>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>>>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Houston mailing list
>>> Houston at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Houston mailing list
>> Houston at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 


From mikeflan at att.net  Wed Jan 29 16:01:18 2014
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:01:18 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com><7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH><52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>	<D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH>
	<999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <52E9964E.7070002@att.net>


I'm afraid I know next to nothing about mod_perl.

I checked and my scripts run with or without that
shebang you supply or any other shebang.  My build
is from ActiveState.


Mike


On 1/29/2014 4:13 PM, Fraser Baker wrote:
> I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl 
> does not appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot 
> be found?? Any comments?
>
> Fraser
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>
>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the 
>> "Windows" shebang from the first line, which is
>>
>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>>
>> the script fails.
>>
>> The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What 
>> else do I need to do or not do?
>>
>> Fraser
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
>> To: <houston at pm.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>


From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 31 10:44:31 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 12:44:31 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <52E9964E.7070002@att.net>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com><7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH><52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>	<D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH><999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH>
	<52E9964E.7070002@att.net>
Message-ID: <87E6662C3710405AA8A736F018C9A57E@CHEETAH>

As always, it is a learning experience that shows how little I really know 
about Perl, but I am surprised that no one piped up saying that to achieve 
my goal, I needed to be running mod_perl.

Anyway mod_perl is now running and I am up against another issue. I have 
really tried hard to resolve it but I am stumped. The Apache error is

[Fri Jan 31 12:35:39 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine 
&ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_2ecgi::GetCookies 
called at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments.cgi line 17.\n


It looks to me that the mod_perl path to GetCookies is incomplete. OK, what 
do I need to do to complete it? GetCookies is in one of my own libraries. I 
have several of my own libraries, so resolving this should lead to a 
resolution to my other "Undefined subroutine" issues.

Fraser

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
To: <houston at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang


>
> I'm afraid I know next to nothing about mod_perl.
>
> I checked and my scripts run with or without that
> shebang you supply or any other shebang.  My build
> is from ActiveState.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> On 1/29/2014 4:13 PM, Fraser Baker wrote:
>> I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl does 
>> not appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot be 
>> found?? Any comments?
>>
>> Fraser
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>
>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the "Windows" 
>>> shebang from the first line, which is
>>>
>>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>>>
>>> the script fails.
>>>
>>> The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What else 
>>> do I need to do or not do?
>>>
>>> Fraser
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
>>> To: <houston at pm.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 


From toddr at cpanel.net  Fri Jan 31 21:14:38 2014
From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:14:38 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <87E6662C3710405AA8A736F018C9A57E@CHEETAH>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com><7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH><52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>	<D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH><999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH>
	<52E9964E.7070002@att.net>
	<87E6662C3710405AA8A736F018C9A57E@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <30E95C71-2DB3-4194-B9D0-39ED3CBCE3B9@cpanel.net>

I?ll be honest. I?d not wish mod perl on you. I suspect an alternate and more easily solution is to find a way to get .cgi files to be set to always run a binary. At least way back when that was an option in apache config files. If we can prod Mr. Lightsey hard enough, he can probably answer that question. 

Todd

On Jan 31, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> As always, it is a learning experience that shows how little I really know about Perl, but I am surprised that no one piped up saying that to achieve my goal, I needed to be running mod_perl.
> 
> Anyway mod_perl is now running and I am up against another issue. I have really tried hard to resolve it but I am stumped. The Apache error is
> 
> [Fri Jan 31 12:35:39 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine &ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_2ecgi::GetCookies called at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments.cgi line 17.\n
> 
> 
> It looks to me that the mod_perl path to GetCookies is incomplete. OK, what do I need to do to complete it? GetCookies is in one of my own libraries. I have several of my own libraries, so resolving this should lead to a resolution to my other "Undefined subroutine" issues.
> 
> Fraser
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
> To: <houston at pm.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
> 
> 
>> 
>> I'm afraid I know next to nothing about mod_perl.
>> 
>> I checked and my scripts run with or without that
>> shebang you supply or any other shebang.  My build
>> is from ActiveState.
>> 
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/29/2014 4:13 PM, Fraser Baker wrote:
>>> I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl does not appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot be found?? Any comments?
>>> 
>>> Fraser
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the "Windows" shebang from the first line, which is
>>>> 
>>>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>>>> 
>>>> the script fails.
>>>> 
>>>> The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What else do I need to do or not do?
>>>> 
>>>> Fraser
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
>>>> To: <houston at pm.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>>>