From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb  1 09:51:05 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:51:05 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <30E95C71-2DB3-4194-B9D0-39ED3CBCE3B9@cpanel.net>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com><7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH><52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>	<D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH><999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH><52E9964E.7070002@att.net><87E6662C3710405AA8A736F018C9A57E@CHEETAH>
	<30E95C71-2DB3-4194-B9D0-39ED3CBCE3B9@cpanel.net>
Message-ID: <495CFA0AFCA744F1B1E2405F863FFA17@CHEETAH>

Thanks Todd, but I am now knee deep in this conversion. Problems remain and 
looking at this error message

[Sat Feb 01 11:40:22 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine 
&ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_cam_2ecgi::GetCookies 
called at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments_cam.cgi line 
12.\n

I am thinking that there is an issue with the encoding. I would have thought 
that _3a should have been written as %3a and that the lone underscores 
should be written as a slash. Anyone concur? I have added <meta 
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=UTF-8">
to the head of the document. No change.

Should this be managed in Apache? If so, how?

Fraser

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at cpanel.net>
To: "Houston. pm located in Houston TX." <houston at pm.org>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang


I?ll be honest. I?d not wish mod perl on you. I suspect an alternate and 
more easily solution is to find a way to get .cgi files to be set to always 
run a binary. At least way back when that was an option in apache config 
files. If we can prod Mr. Lightsey hard enough, he can probably answer that 
question.

Todd

On Jan 31, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> As always, it is a learning experience that shows how little I really know 
> about Perl, but I am surprised that no one piped up saying that to achieve 
> my goal, I needed to be running mod_perl.
>
> Anyway mod_perl is now running and I am up against another issue. I have 
> really tried hard to resolve it but I am stumped. The Apache error is
>
> [Fri Jan 31 12:35:39 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine 
> &ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_2ecgi::GetCookies 
> called at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments.cgi line 
> 17.\n
>
>
> It looks to me that the mod_perl path to GetCookies is incomplete. OK, 
> what do I need to do to complete it? GetCookies is in one of my own 
> libraries. I have several of my own libraries, so resolving this should 
> lead to a resolution to my other "Undefined subroutine" issues.
>
> Fraser
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
> To: <houston at pm.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>
>
>>
>> I'm afraid I know next to nothing about mod_perl.
>>
>> I checked and my scripts run with or without that
>> shebang you supply or any other shebang.  My build
>> is from ActiveState.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On 1/29/2014 4:13 PM, Fraser Baker wrote:
>>> I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl does 
>>> not appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot be 
>>> found?? Any comments?
>>>
>>> Fraser
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Baker" 
>>> <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the 
>>>> "Windows" shebang from the first line, which is
>>>>
>>>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>>>>
>>>> the script fails.
>>>>
>>>> The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What 
>>>> else do I need to do or not do?
>>>>
>>>> Fraser
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
>>>> To: <houston at pm.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>>>

_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 


From todd at rinaldo.us  Sat Feb  1 09:53:38 2014
From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:53:38 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <495CFA0AFCA744F1B1E2405F863FFA17@CHEETAH>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>
	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH>
	<52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>
	<D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH>
	<999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH>
	<52E9964E.7070002@att.net>
	<87E6662C3710405AA8A736F018C9A57E@CHEETAH>
	<30E95C71-2DB3-4194-B9D0-39ED3CBCE3B9@cpanel.net>
	<495CFA0AFCA744F1B1E2405F863FFA17@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <CAG8vyGHKaa8P-2TTfN8wb4eayt6hFHRw9dN7GpxUDim2by2+qg@mail.gmail.com>

Bottom line if you're planning on using your production on Linux without
modperl, it is dangerous for you to do modperl during development. You're
effectively developing oranges and using them as apples in production. Do
you plan to convert your production to modperl?

On Saturday, February 1, 2014, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Thanks Todd, but I am now knee deep in this conversion. Problems remain
> and looking at this error message
>
> [Sat Feb 01 11:40:22 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine
> &ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_
> 2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_cam_2ecgi::GetCookies called at
> D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments_cam.cgi line 12.\n
>
> I am thinking that there is an issue with the encoding. I would have
> thought that _3a should have been written as %3a and that the lone
> underscores should be written as a slash. Anyone concur? I have added <meta
> http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=UTF-8">
> to the head of the document. No change.
>
> Should this be managed in Apache? If so, how?
>
> Fraser
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at cpanel.net>
> To: "Houston. pm located in Houston TX." <houston at pm.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>
>
> I?ll be honest. I?d not wish mod perl on you. I suspect an alternate and
> more easily solution is to find a way to get .cgi files to be set to always
> run a binary. At least way back when that was an option in apache config
> files. If we can prod Mr. Lightsey hard enough, he can probably answer that
> question.
>
> Todd
>
> On Jan 31, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>  As always, it is a learning experience that shows how little I really
>> know about Perl, but I am surprised that no one piped up saying that to
>> achieve my goal, I needed to be running mod_perl.
>>
>> Anyway mod_perl is now running and I am up against another issue. I have
>> really tried hard to resolve it but I am stumped. The Apache error is
>>
>> [Fri Jan 31 12:35:39 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine
>> &ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_
>> 2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_2ecgi::GetCookies called at
>> D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments.cgi line 17.\n
>>
>>
>> It looks to me that the mod_perl path to GetCookies is incomplete. OK,
>> what do I need to do to complete it? GetCookies is in one of my own
>> libraries. I have several of my own libraries, so resolving this should
>> lead to a resolution to my other "Undefined subroutine" issues.
>>
>> Fraser
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
>> To: <houston at pm.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm afraid I know next to nothing about mod_perl.
>>>
>>> I checked and my scripts run with or without that
>>> shebang you supply or any other shebang.  My build
>>> is from ActiveState.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/29/2014 4:13 PM, Fraser Baker wrote:
>>>
>>>> I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl
>>>> does not appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot be
>>>> found?? Any comments?
>>>>
>>>> Fraser
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Baker" <
>>>> flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the
>>>>> "Windows" shebang from the first line, which is
>>>>>
>>>>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
>>>>>
>>>>> the script fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What
>>>>> else do I need to do or not do?
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraser
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
>>>>> To: <houston at pm.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
>>>>>
>>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>


-- 
Todd Rinaldo
todd at rinaldo.us
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From john at nixnuts.net  Sat Feb  1 10:17:32 2014
From: john at nixnuts.net (John Lightsey)
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:17:32 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <30E95C71-2DB3-4194-B9D0-39ED3CBCE3B9@cpanel.net>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH>
	<CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH><52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net>
	<D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH>
	<999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH> <52E9964E.7070002@att.net>
	<87E6662C3710405AA8A736F018C9A57E@CHEETAH>
	<30E95C71-2DB3-4194-B9D0-39ED3CBCE3B9@cpanel.net>
Message-ID: <1391278652.12491.11.camel@goat.lightspeed>

http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=167481

I'd definitely agree that mod_perl is not something you want to get
bogged down with if performance isn't a major concern.

On Fri, 2014-01-31 at 23:14 -0600, Todd Rinaldo wrote: 
> I?ll be honest. I?d not wish mod perl on you. I suspect an alternate and more easily solution is to find a way to get .cgi files to be set to always run a binary. At least way back when that was an option in apache config files. If we can prod Mr. Lightsey hard enough, he can probably answer that question. 
> 
> Todd
> 
> On Jan 31, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> > As always, it is a learning experience that shows how little I really know about Perl, but I am surprised that no one piped up saying that to achieve my goal, I needed to be running mod_perl.
> > 
> > Anyway mod_perl is now running and I am up against another issue. I have really tried hard to resolve it but I am stumped. The Apache error is
> > 
> > [Fri Jan 31 12:35:39 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine &ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_2ecgi::GetCookies called at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments.cgi line 17.\n
> > 
> > 
> > It looks to me that the mod_perl path to GetCookies is incomplete. OK, what do I need to do to complete it? GetCookies is in one of my own libraries. I have several of my own libraries, so resolving this should lead to a resolution to my other "Undefined subroutine" issues.
> > 
> > Fraser
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
> > To: <houston at pm.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> I'm afraid I know next to nothing about mod_perl.
> >> 
> >> I checked and my scripts run with or without that
> >> shebang you supply or any other shebang.  My build
> >> is from ActiveState.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Mike
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 1/29/2014 4:13 PM, Fraser Baker wrote:
> >>> I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl does not appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot be found?? Any comments?
> >>> 
> >>> Fraser
> >>> 
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
> >>> To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>> 
> >>>> That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the "Windows" shebang from the first line, which is
> >>>> 
> >>>> #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe
> >>>> 
> >>>> the script fails.
> >>>> 
> >>>> The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What else do I need to do or not do?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Fraser
> >>>> 
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
> >>>> To: <houston at pm.org>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
> >>>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/

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From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb  1 10:21:30 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 12:21:30 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Windows Shebang
In-Reply-To: <CAG8vyGHKaa8P-2TTfN8wb4eayt6hFHRw9dN7GpxUDim2by2+qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <807C825E21DE4A8FBAD8AFAD3E878C00@CHEETAH><CAG8vyGGCWjn=1XHtQGXNEqA18OvXiib-gAwzOqYg1jXy9bjMqg@mail.gmail.com><7514E120E8B34A5F98CC1F04512030B9@CHEETAH><52E8F3AC.7070404@att.net><D7AEA549DFD34EE688B487520AC31EF3@CHEETAH><999405D3329E4F79B066849EA835D83F@CHEETAH><52E9964E.7070002@att.net><87E6662C3710405AA8A736F018C9A57E@CHEETAH><30E95C71-2DB3-4194-B9D0-39ED3CBCE3B9@cpanel.net><495CFA0AFCA744F1B1E2405F863FFA17@CHEETAH>
	<CAG8vyGHKaa8P-2TTfN8wb4eayt6hFHRw9dN7GpxUDim2by2+qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B64441AD5EF4EF9ADBEE942F2474989@CHEETAH>

Well, on what little I have running, mod_perl serves up the pages much faster. So I like that and the answer is I don't know.

Right now, I feel the issue is with encoding. I have applied an Apache directive to use UTF-8 but that made no difference.

Fraser
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Todd Rinaldo 
  To: Houston.pm located in Houston, TX. 
  Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 11:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang


  Bottom line if you're planning on using your production on Linux without modperl, it is dangerous for you to do modperl during development. You're effectively developing oranges and using them as apples in production. Do you plan to convert your production to modperl?

  On Saturday, February 1, 2014, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    Thanks Todd, but I am now knee deep in this conversion. Problems remain and looking at this error message

    [Sat Feb 01 11:40:22 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine &ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_cam_2ecgi::GetCookies called at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments_cam.cgi line 12.\n

    I am thinking that there is an issue with the encoding. I would have thought that _3a should have been written as %3a and that the lone underscores should be written as a slash. Anyone concur? I have added <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=UTF-8">
    to the head of the document. No change.

    Should this be managed in Apache? If so, how?

    Fraser

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Rinaldo" <toddr at cpanel.net>
    To: "Houston. pm located in Houston TX." <houston at pm.org>
    Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:14 PM
    Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang


    I?ll be honest. I?d not wish mod perl on you. I suspect an alternate and more easily solution is to find a way to get .cgi files to be set to always run a binary. At least way back when that was an option in apache config files. If we can prod Mr. Lightsey hard enough, he can probably answer that question.

    Todd

    On Jan 31, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:


      As always, it is a learning experience that shows how little I really know about Perl, but I am surprised that no one piped up saying that to achieve my goal, I needed to be running mod_perl.

      Anyway mod_perl is now running and I am up against another issue. I have really tried hard to resolve it but I am stumped. The Apache error is

      [Fri Jan 31 12:35:39 2014] [error] Undefined subroutine &ModPerl::ROOT::ModPerl::Registry::D_3a_www_wc_2dadmin_2ecom_cgi_2dbin_minda_admin_departments_2ecgi::GetCookies called at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/minda/admin_departments.cgi line 17.\n


      It looks to me that the mod_perl path to GetCookies is incomplete. OK, what do I need to do to complete it? GetCookies is in one of my own libraries. I have several of my own libraries, so resolving this should lead to a resolution to my other "Undefined subroutine" issues.

      Fraser

      ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
      To: <houston at pm.org>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang




        I'm afraid I know next to nothing about mod_perl.

        I checked and my scripts run with or without that
        shebang you supply or any other shebang.  My build
        is from ActiveState.


        Mike


        On 1/29/2014 4:13 PM, Fraser Baker wrote:

          I now understand that I need to install mod_perl. However, mod_perl does not appear to be available as the downloads I have visited cannot be found?? Any comments?

          Fraser

          ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>
          To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." <houston at pm.org>
          Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:59 AM
          Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang



            Thanks.

            That is what I have been led to believe, but when I remove the "Windows" shebang from the first line, which is

            #!c:/perl/bin/perl.exe

            the script fails.

            The path to Perl is OK. I linked *.cgi file types to Perl.exe. What else do I need to do or not do?

            Fraser

            ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan at att.net>
            To: <houston at pm.org>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:27 AM
            Subject: Re: [pm-h] Windows Shebang



    _______________________________________________
    Houston mailing list
    Houston at pm.org
    http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
    Website: http://houston.pm.org/ 
    _______________________________________________
    Houston mailing list
    Houston at pm.org
    http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
    Website: http://houston.pm.org/



  -- 
  Todd Rinaldo
  todd at rinaldo.us



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Houston mailing list
  Houston at pm.org
  http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
  Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sun Feb  2 19:45:05 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 21:45:05 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Fw: UG News: Get Your Free Books + More from O'Reilly
Message-ID: <20140202214505.7c2a1c2a@cygnus>



Begin forwarded message:

Date: Sun,  2 Feb 2014 16:01:29 -0800
From: Marsee Henon and Jon Johns <usergroups at post.oreilly.com>
To: gwadej at anomaly.org
Subject: UG News: Get Your Free Books + More from O'Reilly


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-- 
Either a language matches the way you think or it doesn't.
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Feb  5 05:18:15 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 07:18:15 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Meeting at HostGator next week
Message-ID: <20140205071815.1f6cebdb@cygnus>

Don't forget.

Our next technical meeting will be at HostGator, a week from tomorrow.
See you there.

G. Wade
-- 
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance we can
solve them.                                           -- Isaac Asimov

From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb  8 08:58:28 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:58:28 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] My mod_perl experience
Message-ID: <889F39AC768144C883AC2A81417B60E5@CHEETAH>

Well, I got mod_perl installed, and after resolving quite a few issues, I am pleased that I survived. The increase in speed is very noticeable, particularly on those screens that load several pages at once.

A question? Is the PHP interpreter in memory like Perl in mod_perl?

Fraser
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  8 09:02:06 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 11:02:06 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] My mod_perl experience
In-Reply-To: <889F39AC768144C883AC2A81417B60E5@CHEETAH>
References: <889F39AC768144C883AC2A81417B60E5@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <2A805191-3C80-47E2-B9D2-62F61E641708@yahoo.com>

Yes; it's loaded when Apache starts.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:58 AM, "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Well, I got mod_perl installed, and after resolving quite a few issues, I am pleased that I survived. The increase in speed is very noticeable, particularly on those screens that load several pages at once.
>  
> A question? Is the PHP interpreter in memory like Perl in mod_perl?
>  
> Fraser
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Feb 11 18:46:34 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:46:34 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Thursday's Houston.pm Technical meeting
Message-ID: <20140211204634.51f28ed0@cygnus>

Hey everyone,

I thought I'd send out a little reminder that our next technical
meeting is this Thursday.

Don't forget that we are meeting at HostGator, not cPanel for this
month. If you need directions, check out the map link on our website
at http://houston.pm.org/. The picture showing where to park is also
there if you haven't been to HostGator before.

I'm looking forward to seeing everyone there.
G. Wade
-- 
It's easier to port a shell than a shell script.      -- Larry Wall

From estrabd at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 06:47:10 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:47:10 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Qore 0.8.8 now in FreeBSD Ports
Message-ID: <CALSf6fQdtfzrW6c66V_b3Kp=fjwboHqjcjjbAJhg7a-CQ913_w@mail.gmail.com>

It took me a while, but I got it in there.

http://www.freshports.org/lang/qore/

Release notes - http://qore.org/manual/current/lang/html/release_notes.html

I have it on good authority that 0.8.9 will be out "soon".

For relevance to the PM group, please see this talk in the archives.

http://houston.pm.org/talks/2011talks/1109Talk/index.html#quore

Thank you,
Brett
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From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb 13 08:35:45 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:35:45 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve
Message-ID: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>

Hi:

My call to calendar.cgi works without mod_perl, but fails when mod_perl is running.

Apache error message
Can't locate object method "initialize" via package "HTML::Template" at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line 133.\n 

calendar.cgi lines
use HTML::template;
Line 133 is: my $tmpl = HTML::Template->initialize( $directives->{'template'} || 'template.html' );

I can't figure this out. Anyone have any ideas?

Fraser
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Thu Feb 13 09:33:47 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 11:33:47 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve
In-Reply-To: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:35:45 -0600
"Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Hi:
> 
> My call to calendar.cgi works without mod_perl, but fails when
> mod_perl is running.
> 
> Apache error message
> Can't locate object method "initialize" via package "HTML::Template"
> at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line
> 133.\n 
> 
> calendar.cgi lines
> use HTML::template;
> Line 133 is: my $tmpl =
> HTML::Template->initialize( $directives->{'template'} ||
> 'template.html' );
> 
> I can't figure this out. Anyone have any ideas?

"HTML::template" should be "HTML::Template"

The case matters. I vaguely remember having problems long ago with
Windows case-folding for file lookup, and leaving the package namespace
wrong.

G. Wade
-- 
90% of coding is debugging. The other 10% is writing bugs.
                                                       -- Bram Cohen

From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb 13 10:30:40 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:30:40 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve
In-Reply-To: <20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
Message-ID: <EA3AC68B20B44021AD2BD1BE67A2DB48@CHEETAH>

Hi Wade:

I tried that revision, but it made no difference.

Fraser

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org>
To: <houston at pm.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve


> On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:35:45 -0600
> "Fraser Baker" <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hi:
>> 
>> My call to calendar.cgi works without mod_perl, but fails when
>> mod_perl is running.
>> 
>> Apache error message
>> Can't locate object method "initialize" via package "HTML::Template"
>> at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line
>> 133.\n 
>> 
>> calendar.cgi lines
>> use HTML::template;
>> Line 133 is: my $tmpl =
>> HTML::Template->initialize( $directives->{'template'} ||
>> 'template.html' );
>> 
>> I can't figure this out. Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> "HTML::template" should be "HTML::Template"
> 
> The case matters. I vaguely remember having problems long ago with
> Windows case-folding for file lookup, and leaving the package namespace
> wrong.
> 
> G. Wade
> -- 
> 90% of coding is debugging. The other 10% is writing bugs.
>                                                       -- Bram Cohen
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/

From jellyson at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 10:42:35 2014
From: jellyson at gmail.com (John Ellyson)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:42:35 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve
In-Reply-To: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <CAHe5CJtfNwOp_tJwnwvcyZMJBz7CKX5tAkYYzDy6weMLiS8W5Q@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't used HTML::Template before, but I was just checking the docs for
it on CPAN.  (
http://search.cpan.org/~wonko/HTML-Template-2.95/lib/HTML/Template.pm)

Just like the error message states, I too can't find an "initialize" method
in the docs for that module.  There is a "new" method, which creates a new
HTML::Template object.  Perhaps that's what you need to use instead of
"initialize"?

Also, Wade has a good point about the capitalization in the module name.
 For a lot of things in Windows, the OS is case-insensitive.  However, the
Perl interpreter is not case-insensitive.  That's something that has bitten
me on numerous occasions.

John Ellyson


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

>  Hi:
>
> My call to calendar.cgi works without mod_perl, but fails when mod_perl
> is running.
>
> Apache error message
> Can't locate object method "initialize" via package "HTML::Template" at
> D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line 133.\n
>
> calendar.cgi lines
> use HTML::template;
> Line 133 is: my $tmpl = HTML::Template->initialize(
> $directives->{'template'} || 'template.html' );
> I can't figure this out. Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Fraser
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From flbaker at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb 13 11:14:48 2014
From: flbaker at sbcglobal.net (Fraser Baker)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 13:14:48 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve
In-Reply-To: <CAHe5CJtfNwOp_tJwnwvcyZMJBz7CKX5tAkYYzDy6weMLiS8W5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
	<CAHe5CJtfNwOp_tJwnwvcyZMJBz7CKX5tAkYYzDy6weMLiS8W5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E27D48DD5DB14CB096FD34905B396B6F@CHEETAH>

OK:

I changed line 133 to be 
my $tmpl = HTML::Template->new( $directives->{'template'} || 'template.html' );


and got the Apache error
 [error] HTML::Template-]new() called with odd number of option parameters - should be of the form option =] value at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line 133.\n 

Fraser
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Ellyson 
  To: Houston.pm located in Houston, TX. 
  Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve


  I haven't used HTML::Template before, but I was just checking the docs for it on CPAN.  (http://search.cpan.org/~wonko/HTML-Template-2.95/lib/HTML/Template.pm)


  Just like the error message states, I too can't find an "initialize" method in the docs for that module.  There is a "new" method, which creates a new HTML::Template object.  Perhaps that's what you need to use instead of "initialize"?


  Also, Wade has a good point about the capitalization in the module name.  For a lot of things in Windows, the OS is case-insensitive.  However, the Perl interpreter is not case-insensitive.  That's something that has bitten me on numerous occasions.


  John Ellyson



  On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    Hi:

    My call to calendar.cgi works without mod_perl, but fails when mod_perl is running.

    Apache error message
    Can't locate object method "initialize" via package "HTML::Template" at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line 133.\n 

    calendar.cgi lines
    use HTML::template;
    Line 133 is: my $tmpl = HTML::Template->initialize( $directives->{'template'} || 'template.html' );

    I can't figure this out. Anyone have any ideas?

    Fraser

    _______________________________________________
    Houston mailing list
    Houston at pm.org
    http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
    Website: http://houston.pm.org/





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Houston mailing list
  Houston at pm.org
  http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
  Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 13 11:40:24 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 11:40:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Another mod_perl issue I can't resolve
In-Reply-To: <E27D48DD5DB14CB096FD34905B396B6F@CHEETAH>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>	<CAHe5CJtfNwOp_tJwnwvcyZMJBz7CKX5tAkYYzDy6weMLiS8W5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<E27D48DD5DB14CB096FD34905B396B6F@CHEETAH>
Message-ID: <1392320424.83080.YahooMailNeo@web164004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

https://metacpan.org/pod/HTML::Template#new


There are a *ton* of options new() takes so it's impossible to say what the right thing to use would be in your particular deployment. ?

But at a minimum, you must supply something like:

HTML::Template->new( filename => $directives->{'template'} || 'template.html')?

Although if you're using Perl 5.14 or later, you may want to consider using the "defined-or" operator which is usually safer in this scenario.

http://perldoc.perl.org/perlop.html#Logical-Defined-Or


Mark



On Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:29 PM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 
OK:
?
I changed line 133 to be 
my$tmpl= HTML::Template->new( $directives->{'template'} || 'template.html');

and got the Apache error
?[error] 
HTML::Template-]new() called with odd number of option parameters - should be of 
the form option =] value at 
D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line 133.\n?

Fraser
----- Original Message ----- 
>From: John Ellyson 
>To: Houston.pm located in Houston, TX. 
>Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:42  PM
>Subject: Re: [pm-h] Another mod_perl  issue I can't resolve
>
>
>I haven't used HTML::Template before, but I was just checking the  docs for it on CPAN. ?(http://search.cpan.org/~wonko/HTML-Template-2.95/lib/HTML/Template.pm) 
>
>
>Just like the error message states, I too can't find an "initialize"  method in the docs for that module. ?There is a "new" method, which  creates a new HTML::Template object. ?Perhaps that's what you need to use  instead of "initialize"?
>
>
>Also, Wade has a good point about the capitalization in the module name.  ?For a lot of things in Windows, the OS is case-insensitive.  ?However, the Perl interpreter is not case-insensitive. ?That's  something that has bitten me on numerous occasions.
>
>
>John Ellyson
>
>
>
>On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Fraser Baker <flbaker at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> 
>>Hi:
>>?
>>My call to calendar.cgi works  without mod_perl, but fails when mod_perl is running.
>>?
>>Apache error message
>>Can't locate object method "initialize" via package  "HTML::Template" at D:/www/wc-admin.com/cgi-bin/event_calendar/calendar.cgi line  133.\n 
>>?
>>calendar.cgi lines
>>use HTML::template;
>>Line 133 is: my $tmpl = HTML::Template->initialize(  $directives->{'template'} || 'template.html' );
>>
>>I can't figure this out. Anyone have any  ideas?
>>?
>>Fraser
>>_______________________________________________
>>Houston 
    mailing list
>>Houston at pm.org
>>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>>Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>>
>
>________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>Houston mailing 
  list
>Houston at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>Website: 
  http://houston.pm.org/

_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 13 12:15:22 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:15:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
Message-ID: <1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Perl Folks,
I need to call a JSON web service with dates.? The web service uses this format which I hear is a fairly well used JSON date format.? (Note: ISO 8601 is now the preferred format).

?'/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'

What I want to do is to pass DateTime objects to and from the Perl API and have it seamlessly translate to and from this milliseconds from epoch format.

Issues: 
? - I don't see a DateTime formatter that supports this format.? Maybe, I just don't know the name of the format.? But, I was expecting to find DateTime::Format::JSON::Epoch or something similar.
? - I did not see an easy way to use JSON::PP mapping to map objects to strings and back.
I'd hate to have to go through every value searching for strings that matched /Date()/ and convert them to DateTime format.? It's would be easy on the send side as I already have hooks in my code.
Has anyone does this kind of thing before?? I've searched but found nothing on the 'Net related to Perl.

Thanks,
Mike

From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 13 13:40:45 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 13:40:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
	<1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

As far as I am aware, JSON supports auto-serialization of a blessed object only if allow_blessed => 1 and convert_blessed => 1.

See?https://metacpan.org/pod/JSON::PP#allow_blessed

Then in your class you need a method called TO_JSON which JSON will (attempt to) call when it encounters it during serialization. ?There's a semi-lame example here:

https://github.com/makamaka/JSON-PP/blob/master/lib/JSON/PP.pm#L2176-L2187


I have an example here, which might be more illustrative:

https://github.com/mrallen1/WebService-Geocodio/blob/master/lib/WebService/Geocodio/Location.pm#L88-L111


For deserialization you may use filter_json_object
?? ? =>?https://metacpan.org/pod/JSON::PP#filter_json_object

but that may not be performant enough for your needs.




On Thursday, February 13, 2014 2:57 PM, Michael R. Davis <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Perl Folks,
I need to call a JSON web service with dates.? The web service uses this format which I hear is a fairly well used JSON date format.? (Note: ISO 8601 is now the preferred format).

?'/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'

What I want to do is to pass DateTime objects to and from the Perl API and have it seamlessly translate to and from this milliseconds from epoch format.

Issues: 
? - I don't see a DateTime formatter that supports this format.? Maybe, I just don't know the name of the format.? But, I was expecting to find DateTime::Format::JSON::Epoch or something similar.
? - I did not see an easy way to use JSON::PP mapping to map objects to strings and back.
I'd hate to have to go through every value searching for strings that matched /Date()/ and convert them to DateTime format.? It's would be easy on the send side as I already have hooks in my code.
Has anyone does this kind of thing before?? I've searched but found nothing on the 'Net related to Perl.

Thanks,
Mike

_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 13 13:40:45 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 13:40:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
	<1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

As far as I am aware, JSON supports auto-serialization of a blessed object only if allow_blessed => 1 and convert_blessed => 1.

See?https://metacpan.org/pod/JSON::PP#allow_blessed

Then in your class you need a method called TO_JSON which JSON will (attempt to) call when it encounters it during serialization. ?There's a semi-lame example here:

https://github.com/makamaka/JSON-PP/blob/master/lib/JSON/PP.pm#L2176-L2187


I have an example here, which might be more illustrative:

https://github.com/mrallen1/WebService-Geocodio/blob/master/lib/WebService/Geocodio/Location.pm#L88-L111


For deserialization you may use filter_json_object
?? ? =>?https://metacpan.org/pod/JSON::PP#filter_json_object

but that may not be performant enough for your needs.




On Thursday, February 13, 2014 2:57 PM, Michael R. Davis <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Perl Folks,
I need to call a JSON web service with dates.? The web service uses this format which I hear is a fairly well used JSON date format.? (Note: ISO 8601 is now the preferred format).

?'/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'

What I want to do is to pass DateTime objects to and from the Perl API and have it seamlessly translate to and from this milliseconds from epoch format.

Issues: 
? - I don't see a DateTime formatter that supports this format.? Maybe, I just don't know the name of the format.? But, I was expecting to find DateTime::Format::JSON::Epoch or something similar.
? - I did not see an easy way to use JSON::PP mapping to map objects to strings and back.
I'd hate to have to go through every value searching for strings that matched /Date()/ and convert them to DateTime format.? It's would be easy on the send side as I already have hooks in my code.
Has anyone does this kind of thing before?? I've searched but found nothing on the 'Net related to Perl.

Thanks,
Mike

_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 13 14:58:33 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 14:58:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
	<1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1392332313.25715.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Mark et al,
?
>> I need to call a JSON web service with dates.??...??'/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'
> As far as I am aware, JSON supports auto-serialization of a blessed object only if allow_blessed => 1 and convert_blessed => 1.
?
I'll look into that... It looks like I'll need to add a TO_JSON method to the DateTime object (which I'm not exactly sure how to do...)
?
Just to make things harder.? Since?the remote service requires sort_by and performance of JSON::PP is so SLOW.? I'm using JSON::PP?to encode and JSON::XS to decode.? It's crazy the things we have to do to get around?implementations?in the first place.
Thanks,
Mike??? 
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 13 15:55:38 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:55:38 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <1392332313.25715.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
	<1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1392332313.25715.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <441A8491-0DC0-4154-944C-CDD918FC17B0@yahoo.com>

You should subclass DateTime into your own package

package My::DateTime;
use base ('DateTime');

sub TO_JSON { ...; }

Then bless your objects into My::DateTime

Probably errors since I'm typing on my phone but you get the gist.

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2014, at 4:58 PM, "Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark et al,
>  
> >> I need to call a JSON web service with dates.  ...  '/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'
> > As far as I am aware, JSON supports auto-serialization of a blessed object only if allow_blessed => 1 and convert_blessed => 1.
>  
> I'll look into that... It looks like I'll need to add a TO_JSON method to the DateTime object (which I'm not exactly sure how to do...)
>  
> Just to make things harder.  Since the remote service requires sort_by and performance of JSON::PP is so SLOW.  I'm using JSON::PP to encode and JSON::XS to decode.  It's crazy the things we have to do to get around implementations in the first place.
> Thanks,
> Mike
>    
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 13 15:57:31 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:57:31 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <441A8491-0DC0-4154-944C-CDD918FC17B0@yahoo.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
	<1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1392332313.25715.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<441A8491-0DC0-4154-944C-CDD918FC17B0@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0DCE5281-4847-4C37-A028-CC336F368FD0@yahoo.com>

I guess all the cool kids are using 'parent' to subclass now. Mea culpa.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> You should subclass DateTime into your own package
> 
> package My::DateTime;
> use base ('DateTime');
> 
> sub TO_JSON { ...; }
> 
> Then bless your objects into My::DateTime
> 
> Probably errors since I'm typing on my phone but you get the gist.
> 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2014, at 4:58 PM, "Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mark et al,
>>  
>> >> I need to call a JSON web service with dates.  ...  '/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'
>> > As far as I am aware, JSON supports auto-serialization of a blessed object only if allow_blessed => 1 and convert_blessed => 1.
>>  
>> I'll look into that... It looks like I'll need to add a TO_JSON method to the DateTime object (which I'm not exactly sure how to do...)
>>  
>> Just to make things harder.  Since the remote service requires sort_by and performance of JSON::PP is so SLOW.  I'm using JSON::PP to encode and JSON::XS to decode.  It's crazy the things we have to do to get around implementations in the first place.
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Fri Feb 14 05:38:27 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 07:38:27 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Announcement of MongoDB World
Message-ID: <20140214073827.11813546@cygnus>

Laura Czajkowski announced on the Houston Perl Meetup forum about the
MongoDB World 2014 event. Here's the announcement.

Hello!

You?re invited to attend MongoDB World, our first global flagship
event, taking place in New York in June.

Attend the first event of its kind, with thousands of developers, ops
professionals, and executives sharing their insights on working with
MongoDB. Choose from over 80 presentations from keynote speakers on
topics including:

- Schema Design Tips & Tricks
- Performance Tuning
- Security in MongoDB
- Advanced Aggregation
- New Features in the 2.6 release.

Don?t miss out. Register now for MongoDBWorld 2014, and enter in the
code mug15 to receive 15% off your purchase of your ticket.

[Register Now]
(http://www.mongodb.com/world/index.html?utm_source=meetup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MongoDB+World+Meetup&utm_content=1&utm_term=)

Laura 

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Fri Feb 14 15:55:16 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 17:55:16 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
Message-ID: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>

Near the end of the meeting last night, there was a minor discussion at
the whiteboard about which characters Perl allows as delimiters on the
match operator.

According to PerlDoc:

 If "/" is the delimiter then the initial "m" is optional.  With the
 "m" you can use any pair of non- whitespace (ASCII) characters as
 delimiters.  This is particularly useful for matching path names that
 contain "/", to avoid LTS (leaning toothpick syndrome).  If "?" is the
 delimiter, then a match-only- once rule applies, described in
 "m?PATTERN?" below.  If "'" is the delimiter, no interpolation is
 performed on the PATTERN.  When using a character valid in an
 identifier, whitespace is required after the "m".

So, that means that 

   $str =~ m mabc+m;

is valid Perl and it matches "abc+".

Weird. I can't think of a real use for it and using it in production
code is likely to get you beaten by whoever maintains your code.

G. Wade
-- 
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it!) but 'That's funny ...'
                                                     -- Isaac Asimov

From reini.urban at gmail.com  Fri Feb 14 22:00:03 2014
From: reini.urban at gmail.com (Reini Urban)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 00:00:03 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
Message-ID: <CAHiT=DGypEDK43WGkHiAH1Mj2GyNMYNGjywwGXRG1xajRqi58Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 14, 2014, at 5:55 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:

Near the end of the meeting last night, there was a minor discussion at
the whiteboard about which characters Perl allows as delimiters on the
match operator.

According to PerlDoc:

If "/" is the delimiter then the initial "m" is optional.  With the
"m" you can use any pair of non- whitespace (ASCII) characters as
delimiters.  This is particularly useful for matching path names that
contain "/", to avoid LTS (leaning toothpick syndrome).  If "?" is the
delimiter, then a match-only- once rule applies, described in
"m?PATTERN?" below.  If "'" is the delimiter, no interpolation is
performed on the PATTERN.  When using a character valid in an
identifier, whitespace is required after the "m".

So, that means that

  $str =~ m mabc+m;

is valid Perl and it matches "abc+".

Weird. I can't think of a real use for it and using it in production
code is likely to get you beaten by whoever maintains your code.

 Me neither.

This is how to test it, with a debugging perl

$ perl -Dr -e'print "abc" =~ m mabc+m;'

Compiling REx "abc+"

rarest char c at 0

rarest char b at 1

Final program:

   1: EXACT <ab> (3)

   3: PLUS (6)

   4:   EXACT <c> (0)

   6: END (0)

anchored "abc" at 0 floating "c" at 2..2147483647 (checking anchored)
minlen 3

Omitting $` $& $' support.

EXECUTING...

Guessing start of match in sv for REx "abc+" against "abc"

Found anchored substr "abc" at offset 0...

Found floating substr "c" at offset 2...

Guessed: match at offset 0

Matching REx "abc+" against "abc"

   0 <> <abc>                |  1:EXACT <ab>(3)

   2 <ab> <c>                |  3:PLUS(6)

                                  EXACT <c> can match 1 times out of
2147483647...

   3 <abc> <>                |  6:  END(0)

Match successful!

1Freeing REx: "abc+"

B::Concise shows you the match operator b

$ perl -MO=Concise -e'print "abc" =~ m mabc+m;'

7  <@> leave[1 ref] vKP/REFC ->(end)

1     <0> enter ->2

2     <;> nextstate(main 1 -e:1) v:{ ->3

6     <@> print vK ->7

3        <0> pushmark s ->4

5        </> match(/"abc+"/) lKS/RTIME ->6

4           <$> const(PV "abc") s ->5

-e syntax OK
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From todd at rinaldo.us  Sat Feb 15 12:17:30 2014
From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 14:17:30 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
Message-ID: <CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Friday, February 14, 2014, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:

> Weird. I can't think of a real use for it and using it in production
> code is likely to get you beaten by whoever maintains your code.
>
> G.
>

I think Wade offered to beat anyone personally if they don't have a second
maintainer handy.




-- 
Todd Rinaldo
todd at rinaldo.us
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sat Feb 15 14:10:14 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 16:10:14 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
	<CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140215161014.78a0bd60@cygnus>

On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 14:17:30 -0600
Todd Rinaldo <todd at rinaldo.us> wrote:

> On Friday, February 14, 2014, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > Weird. I can't think of a real use for it and using it in production
> > code is likely to get you beaten by whoever maintains your code.
> >
> > G.
> >
> 
> I think Wade offered to beat anyone personally if they don't have a
> second maintainer handy.

<grin/>
I have a favorite quote that I've used with a large number of
developers I have trained:

"You write code as if the person who will maintain your code is a
violent psychopath who knows where you live." -- John F. Woods

Thinking about the person who will maintain your code is always a good
thing. (I know Wade-past wasn't very good about that, and I would love
to have a chat with him about it.)

G. Wade
-- 
There's no sense being exact about something if you don't even know what
you're talking about.                           -- John von Neumann

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sat Feb 15 19:13:20 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 21:13:20 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] February presentation writeup is on-line
Message-ID: <20140215211320.14c69571@cygnus>

I've posted the write-up and slides for Thursday's meeting.
http://houston.pm.org/talks/2014talks/1402Talk/index.html

Thanks to Brett Estrade and Todd Rinaldo, we have a a presentation
already for next month at cPanel.

How about April? Any ideas for that meeting? (We should be back at
Hostgator.)

G. Wade
-- 
It is wise to remember that you are one of those who can be fooled some
of the time.                                      -- Laurence J. Peter

From estrabd at gmail.com  Sat Feb 15 20:35:11 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 22:35:11 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] February presentation writeup is on-line
In-Reply-To: <20140215211320.14c69571@cygnus>
References: <20140215211320.14c69571@cygnus>
Message-ID: <B8C0CEA5-EFE6-4214-8192-6141FB3E2B5E@gmail.com>



> On Feb 15, 2014, at 9:13 PM, "G. Wade Johnson" <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
> 
> I've posted the write-up and slides for Thursday's meeting.
> http://houston.pm.org/talks/2014talks/1402Talk/index.html
> 
> Thanks to Brett Estrade and Todd Rinaldo, we have a a presentation
> already for next month at cPanel.
> 
> How about April? Any ideas for that meeting? (We should be back at
> Hostgator.)
> 
> G. Wade
> -- 
> It is wise to remember that you are one of those who can be fooled some
> of the time.                                      -- Laurence J. Peter
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/

From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 15 20:55:49 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:55:49 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <20140215161014.78a0bd60@cygnus>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
	<CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140215161014.78a0bd60@cygnus>
Message-ID: <D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>


> "You write code as if the person who will maintain your code is a
> violent psychopath who knows where you live." -- John F. Woods
> 
> Thinking about the person who will maintain your code is always a good
> thing.  

Now that I been using Perl for almost 20 years.  I tend to be nice to myself and go back and update the variable names and I always use the m in a match and only ever use m// or m{}.

And, I am the crazy guy who maintains the code I once wrote and I know where I live.

The funny thing about Perl is that the code you write seems to stick around a lot longer than you would have imagined.
Mike

mrdvt92

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sat Feb 15 21:17:58 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:17:58 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
	<CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140215161014.78a0bd60@cygnus>
	<D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140215231758.78a1e4a0@cygnus>

On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:55:49 -0500
"Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> > "You write code as if the person who will maintain your code is a
> > violent psychopath who knows where you live." -- John F. Woods
> > 
> > Thinking about the person who will maintain your code is always a
> > good thing.  
> 
> Now that I been using Perl for almost 20 years.  I tend to be nice to
> myself and go back and update the variable names and I always use the
> m in a match and only ever use m// or m{}.
> 
> And, I am the crazy guy who maintains the code I once wrote and I
> know where I live.
> 
> The funny thing about Perl is that the code you write seems to stick
> around a lot longer than you would have imagined. Mike

A guy my wife used to know was fond of saying:

  "There's nothing more permanent than temporary code."

In addition to the temporary scripts, I agree. A lot of the Perl code
I've worked on over the years just continues running. Sometimes it
needs to be extended, and sometimes the environment changes, but
otherwise it keeps on getting stuff done.

G. Wade
-- 
Systems develop goals of their own the instant they come into being.
                                                        -- John Gall

From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 15 22:49:38 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 22:49:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>	<CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>	<20140215161014.78a0bd60@cygnus>
	<D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1392533378.77855.YahooMailNeo@web164002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

> The funny thing about Perl is that the code you write seems to stick around a lot longer than you > would have imagined.


It's not just Perl. ?Pretty much any code I've written for $JOB that does something useful tends to take on a life of its own.

I think it is both insane and wonderful that Perl allows one to match a regex using a literal 'm' as delimiter. ?I tend to use m|| myself but I know m{} is also in vogue.

Mark
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From rasto at cm4msaa7.com  Sat Feb 15 23:44:55 2014
From: rasto at cm4msaa7.com (lee latham)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 01:44:55 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <1392533378.77855.YahooMailNeo@web164002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
	<CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140215161014.78a0bd60@cygnus>
	<D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>
	<1392533378.77855.YahooMailNeo@web164002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJLYU56pTmuGXujCfoYnZ8f1m7U8TMfZarNfaxmBot-9x7HuUw@mail.gmail.com>

I just learned that fairly recently.  I want Mark to know I would have
written it differently if I'd thought anybody would actually still be using
it today.

I really can't believe it.  But now I know.

lee


On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > The funny thing about Perl is that the code you write seems to stick
> around a lot longer than you > would have imagined.
>
> It's not just Perl.  Pretty much any code I've written for $JOB that does
> something useful tends to take on a life of its own.
>
> I think it is both insane and wonderful that Perl allows one to match a
> regex using a literal 'm' as delimiter.  I tend to use m|| myself but I
> know m{} is also in vogue.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Sun Feb 16 16:59:09 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 18:59:09 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Fw: UG News: Get Your Free Books + More from O'Reilly
Message-ID: <20140216185909.1b17b593@cygnus>



Begin forwarded message:

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To: gwadej at anomaly.org
Subject: UG News: Get Your Free Books + More from O'Reilly


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create it.                                              -- Dr. Pamela
Zave
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From toddr at cpanel.net  Sun Feb 16 20:28:24 2014
From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:28:24 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Discussion about delimiters for m//
In-Reply-To: <D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>
References: <20140214175516.69aac650@cygnus>
	<CAG8vyGEGrUJFx4hPyey=0CspdeD5T8ZSaJx=-5YELYTCB_bW+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140215161014.78a0bd60@cygnus>
	<D6695105-7D42-429B-AC14-BF37D0E12A45@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0B5B959B-AB86-459F-B699-C5CDB3C871F9@cpanel.net>


On Feb 15, 2014, at 10:55 PM, Michael R. Davis <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
>> "You write code as if the person who will maintain your code is a
>> violent psychopath who knows where you live." -- John F. Woods
>> 
>> Thinking about the person who will maintain your code is always a good
>> thing.  
> 
> Now that I been using Perl for almost 20 years.  I tend to be nice to myself and go back and update the variable names and I always use the m in a match and only ever use m// or m{}.

I think the trickster in me must be coming out in my old age. Cause I?ve been trying to figure out how I could sneak something like this into code just to see if I could give someone the willies. Maybe I could call it a test of our code review procedures.

perl -E 'my $c = "sadistopia"; print "OK\n" if($c =~ m msadism)'

Todd


From uri at stemsystems.com  Sun Feb 16 23:18:11 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 02:18:11 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
Message-ID: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com>

hi all,

i just joined this list and i want to learn what rules you have for job 
postings? i am on many different pm lists and they all have different 
rules. i am sure many of you know me and know i wouldn't spam the list 
or post gibberish.

thanx,

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From mikeflan at att.net  Mon Feb 17 04:14:05 2014
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 06:14:05 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com>
Message-ID: <5301FD0D.8020007@att.net>


On 2/17/2014 1:18 AM, Uri Guttman wrote:
> hi all,
>
> i just joined this list and i want to learn what rules you have for 
> job postings? i am on many different pm lists and they all have 
> different rules. i am sure many of you know me and know i wouldn't 
> spam the list or post gibberish.
>
> thanx,
>
> uri
>


Hi Uri,

Our rules are very informal.  If it's Perl related
we want to hear about it.  If it's going to be more
than 2 posts per week on jobs outside the Houston
area you might want to have some consistency in
the subject line so people can easily filter them
out if they want to.


Mike Flannigan


From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Feb 17 05:31:23 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 07:31:23 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com>
Message-ID: <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 02:18:11 -0500
Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:

> hi all,
> 
> i just joined this list and i want to learn what rules you have for
> job postings? i am on many different pm lists and they all have
> different rules. i am sure many of you know me and know i wouldn't
> spam the list or post gibberish.

Hi Uri,

If you have any questions about whether the post is on-topic, feel free
to send it to me first.

In general, if the position is something that would interest Perl
programmers, it's fair game.

G. Wade
-- 
If you torture data long enough, it will confess to anything.
                                             -- unknown econometrian

From uri at stemsystems.com  Mon Feb 17 08:21:40 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:21:40 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com> <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
Message-ID: <53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>

On 02/17/2014 08:31 AM, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 02:18:11 -0500
> Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
>
>> hi all,
>>
>> i just joined this list and i want to learn what rules you have for
>> job postings? i am on many different pm lists and they all have
>> different rules. i am sure many of you know me and know i wouldn't
>> spam the list or post gibberish.
>
> Hi Uri,
>
> If you have any questions about whether the post is on-topic, feel free
> to send it to me first.
>
> In general, if the position is something that would interest Perl
> programmers, it's fair game.

hi,

sounds like i will not have a problem. i will only post local or 
telecommute jobs, i won't post more than needed or repeatedly.

thanx,

uri


-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From estrabd at gmail.com  Mon Feb 17 09:31:05 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:31:05 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com> <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
	<53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>
Message-ID: <CALSf6fTvknoeUG1iWnmWN95C+q=EiGm-dohL_-w7TvHWsyBjjQ@mail.gmail.com>

jobs.perl.org is also a good outlet.

Brett


On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:

> On 02/17/2014 08:31 AM, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 02:18:11 -0500
>> Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
>>
>>  hi all,
>>>
>>> i just joined this list and i want to learn what rules you have for
>>> job postings? i am on many different pm lists and they all have
>>> different rules. i am sure many of you know me and know i wouldn't
>>> spam the list or post gibberish.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Uri,
>>
>> If you have any questions about whether the post is on-topic, feel free
>> to send it to me first.
>>
>> In general, if the position is something that would interest Perl
>> programmers, it's fair game.
>>
>
> hi,
>
> sounds like i will not have a problem. i will only post local or
> telecommute jobs, i won't post more than needed or repeatedly.
>
>
> thanx,
>
> uri
>
>
> --
> Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
> The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
> http://PerlHunter.com
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From uri at stemsystems.com  Mon Feb 17 09:40:13 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:40:13 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <CALSf6fTvknoeUG1iWnmWN95C+q=EiGm-dohL_-w7TvHWsyBjjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com> <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
	<53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fTvknoeUG1iWnmWN95C+q=EiGm-dohL_-w7TvHWsyBjjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5302497D.5010005@stemsystems.com>

On 02/17/2014 12:31 PM, B. Estrade wrote:
> jobs.perl.org is also a good outlet.
>

sorry for the sarcasm but, Duh!! i created the original perl jobs list 
that eventually morphed into the current list and site. and i was a 
moderator of the list in the earlier days. so i do know about it. yet, i 
still like to post jobs to local pm lists as then i will reach most perl 
developers in an area. some may not be actively looking for a job and 
won't read jobs.perl.org but they will learn about my leads in their 
area. also i will post to a local pm before i post to the jobs list as 
it can be more effective.

i am about to land a new client with jobs in the houston area so will be 
posting about that later this week.

thanx,

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 17 11:52:42 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:52:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <441A8491-0DC0-4154-944C-CDD918FC17B0@yahoo.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
	<1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1392332313.25715.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<441A8491-0DC0-4154-944C-CDD918FC17B0@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1392666762.21561.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Perl Folks,

>> I need to call a JSON web service with dates.??...??'/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'

> As far as I am aware, JSON supports auto-serialization of a blessed object only if allow_blessed => 1 and convert_blessed => 1.
?
Just to follow up on JSON Dates.? So, after much research I've found out that this JSON date format is called the MicrosoftDateFormat.? It was only used in JSON.NET framework 4.5 and is now a defunct standard in favor of ISO standard for dates.
?
So, I went ahead and bit the bullet and wrote a DateTime formatter.? I've called it DateTime::Format::JSON::MicrosoftDateFormat.
?
But, the API is just like any other date time formatter object except that it optionally loads the DateTime::TO_JSON subroutine in the import section of the package.
?
??? *DateTime::TO_JSON=sub {shift->_stringify};

So, JSON serialization of DateTime objects will be automatic.? De-serialization is still?manual at this time as there appears to be no way to identify the date data without scanning all values.? I'll most likely implement some kind of object key de-serialization mechanism.
Thanks,
Mike
?
Example Script
?
perl -e '
use strict;
use warnings;
use JSON;
use DateTime;
use DateTime::Format::JSON::MicrosoftDateFormat (to_json=>1);
?
my $formatter=DateTime::Format::JSON::MicrosoftDateFormat->new;
?
print $formatter->parse_datetime("/Date(1392606509000)/"),????? "\n";
print $formatter->parse_datetime("/Date(1392089278000-0600)/"), "\n";
print $formatter->parse_datetime("/Date(1392067678000)/"),????? "\n";
?
my $dt=DateTime->now;
$dt->set_formatter($formatter); #we still need to set the formatter
print "$dt\n";????????????????? #"" overloaded
print JSON->new->convert_blessed->encode($dt), "\n"; #JSON calls DateTime->TO_JSON
'
2014-02-17T03:08:29
2014-02-10T21:27:58
2014-02-10T21:27:58
/Date(1392666175000)/
"/Date(1392666175000)/"
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 17 12:34:07 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:34:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] JSON Dates and DateTime
In-Reply-To: <1392666762.21561.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <AA64742F48024BE59523E65153311D6D@CHEETAH>
	<20140213113347.0527531b@cygnus>
	<1392322522.48367.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1392327645.500.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1392332313.25715.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<441A8491-0DC0-4154-944C-CDD918FC17B0@yahoo.com>
	<1392666762.21561.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1392669247.59751.YahooMailNeo@web164001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Looks good; just saw it pop up on @cpan_new - thanks for releasing it to CPAN for anyone else who needs to solve this problem.

Mark



On Monday, February 17, 2014 1:52 PM, Michael R. Davis <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Perl Folks,
?
>> I need to call a JSON web service with dates.??...??'/Date(1392233750000-0600)/'

> As far as I am aware, JSON supports auto-serialization of a blessed object only if allow_blessed => 1 and convert_blessed => 1.
?
Just to follow up on JSON Dates.? So, after much research I've found out that this JSON date format is called the MicrosoftDateFormat.? It was only used in JSON.NET framework 4.5 and is now a defunct standard in favor of ISO standard for dates.
?
So, I went ahead and bit the bullet and wrote a DateTime formatter.? I've called it DateTime::Format::JSON::MicrosoftDateFormat.
?
But, the API is just like any other date time formatter object except that it optionally loads the DateTime::TO_JSON subroutine in the import section of the package.
?
??? *DateTime::TO_JSON=sub {shift->_stringify};

So, JSON serialization of DateTime objects will be automatic.? De-serialization is still?manual at this time as there appears to be no way to identify the date data without scanning all values.? I'll most likely implement some kind of object key de-serialization mechanism.
Thanks,
Mike
?
Example Script
?
perl -e '
use strict;
use warnings;
use JSON;
use DateTime;
use
 DateTime::Format::JSON::MicrosoftDateFormat (to_json=>1);
?
my $formatter=DateTime::Format::JSON::MicrosoftDateFormat->new;
?
print $formatter->parse_datetime("/Date(1392606509000)/"),????? "\n";
print $formatter->parse_datetime("/Date(1392089278000-0600)/"), "\n";
print $formatter->parse_datetime("/Date(1392067678000)/"),????? "\n";
?
my $dt=DateTime->now;
$dt->set_formatter($formatter); #we still need to set the formatter
print
 "$dt\n";????????????????? #"" overloaded
print JSON->new->convert_blessed->encode($dt), "\n"; #JSON calls DateTime->TO_JSON
'
2014-02-17T03:08:29
2014-02-10T21:27:58
2014-02-10T21:27:58
/Date(1392666175000)/
"/Date(1392666175000)/"
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From estrabd at gmail.com  Mon Feb 17 13:29:31 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 15:29:31 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <5302497D.5010005@stemsystems.com>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com> <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
	<53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fTvknoeUG1iWnmWN95C+q=EiGm-dohL_-w7TvHWsyBjjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5302497D.5010005@stemsystems.com>
Message-ID: <CALSf6fR0d+6SVN++eJDfpvBpv66mv0L=neHazLUDxSRq6soHPg@mail.gmail.com>

I can assume nothing about individuals asking questions beyond the
information they provide.

Brett


On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:

> On 02/17/2014 12:31 PM, B. Estrade wrote:
>
>> jobs.perl.org is also a good outlet.
>>
>>
> sorry for the sarcasm but, Duh!! i created the original perl jobs list
> that eventually morphed into the current list and site. and i was a
> moderator of the list in the earlier days. so i do know about it. yet, i
> still like to post jobs to local pm lists as then i will reach most perl
> developers in an area. some may not be actively looking for a job and won't
> read jobs.perl.org but they will learn about my leads in their area. also
> i will post to a local pm before i post to the jobs list as it can be more
> effective.
>
> i am about to land a new client with jobs in the houston area so will be
> posting about that later this week.
>
>
> thanx,
>
> uri
>
> --
> Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
> The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
> http://PerlHunter.com
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From uri at stemsystems.com  Mon Feb 17 18:57:53 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:57:53 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <CALSf6fR0d+6SVN++eJDfpvBpv66mv0L=neHazLUDxSRq6soHPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com> <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
	<53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fTvknoeUG1iWnmWN95C+q=EiGm-dohL_-w7TvHWsyBjjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5302497D.5010005@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fR0d+6SVN++eJDfpvBpv66mv0L=neHazLUDxSRq6soHPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5302CC31.9010707@stemsystems.com>

On 02/17/2014 04:29 PM, B. Estrade wrote:
> I can assume nothing about individuals asking questions beyond the
> information they provide.
>

i agree but given my signature, and the fact that i know enough to join 
a local pm list to post for jobs, it may be easy to figure out i know 
something about the perl job community. it was just amusing to see a 
recommendation to use something i created.

thanx,

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Feb 17 21:23:24 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:23:24 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <5302CC31.9010707@stemsystems.com>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com> <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
	<53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fTvknoeUG1iWnmWN95C+q=EiGm-dohL_-w7TvHWsyBjjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5302497D.5010005@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fR0d+6SVN++eJDfpvBpv66mv0L=neHazLUDxSRq6soHPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5302CC31.9010707@stemsystems.com>
Message-ID: <20140217232324.333bce49@cygnus>

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:57:53 -0500
Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:

> On 02/17/2014 04:29 PM, B. Estrade wrote:
> > I can assume nothing about individuals asking questions beyond the
> > information they provide.
> >
> 
> i agree but given my signature, and the fact that i know enough to
> join a local pm list to post for jobs, it may be easy to figure out i
> know something about the perl job community. it was just amusing to
> see a recommendation to use something i created.

Okay, Uri.

Let's try not to bait the natives too much, eh. Not everyone is
familiar with your sense of humor.<grin/>

Will this client be willing to let their name out, or will they remain
anonymous? I've had contact with a few companies in town that seem
reluctant to admit they use Perl.

G. Wade
-- 
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it!) but 'That's funny ...'
                                                     -- Isaac Asimov

From uri at stemsystems.com  Mon Feb 17 21:39:34 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 00:39:34 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] job posting rules?
In-Reply-To: <20140217232324.333bce49@cygnus>
References: <5301B7B3.1070709@stemsystems.com> <20140217073123.38e8d06b@cygnus>
	<53023714.8010508@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fTvknoeUG1iWnmWN95C+q=EiGm-dohL_-w7TvHWsyBjjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5302497D.5010005@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fR0d+6SVN++eJDfpvBpv66mv0L=neHazLUDxSRq6soHPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5302CC31.9010707@stemsystems.com> <20140217232324.333bce49@cygnus>
Message-ID: <5302F216.8010907@stemsystems.com>

On 02/18/2014 12:23 AM, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:57:53 -0500
>
> Okay, Uri.
>
> Let's try not to bait the natives too much, eh. Not everyone is
> familiar with your sense of humor.<grin/>

:)

>
> Will this client be willing to let their name out, or will they remain
> anonymous? I've had contact with a few companies in town that seem
> reluctant to admit they use Perl.

i will let out the name privately if you contact me off list and are 
interested. i can't let it out yet. just a few details. all perl shop 
which needs to grow the team by 3 members. one needs to be an onsite 
hands on manager to handle all issues (features, bugs, etc. reported 
from the internal user base) and lead the team. others can be possibly 
remote but solid coders. pay is very good.

thanx,

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From damon at booktrolls.com  Mon Feb 17 22:18:26 2014
From: damon at booktrolls.com (Damon Hastings)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Coders wanted for pure-Perl company, Houston, $100K/yr
Message-ID: <1392704306.32350.YahooMailNeo@web181301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Well, I guess it's time to throw my own hat into the ring.? ;-)

As some of you already know, I'm with BookTrolls, one of the largest booksellers selling through Amazon and eBay.? I am currently looking to hire Perl programmers for back-end coding under Linux, at roughly $100,000/yr.? This is no glue-scripting position; we use Perl at a deeper level than almost any other company.? Our entire software infrastructure is pure Perl, ranging from simple CGI scripts to enterprise-class custom servers built from the ground up (where ground == CPAN).? We are quickly building our software team as our business expands rapidly, and you'd be getting in on the ground floor.? Both our culture and development model are pretty informal.? Flexible hours.? We're not a software company, but our Perl code runs every aspect of the business.

I have the full job description on our website: http://booktrolls.com/dev.html
Or on jobs.perl.org: http://jobs.perl.org/job/18382 (and Dice, Monster, etc)

If this sounds like a position you might be interested in, just drop me a line.

Thanks!

Damon Hastings
CTO, BookTrolls, LLC
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/damon-hastings/5/630/309
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From drzigman at drzigman.com  Wed Feb 19 08:04:59 2014
From: drzigman at drzigman.com (Robert Stone)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:04:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
Message-ID: <1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>

Greetings, 

I came across this posting that goes into a lot of detail regarding context: 
http://perlhacks.com/2013/12/misunderstanding-context/ 

Linked in that article is also another interesting posting on the differences between Arrays and Lists. 
http://friedo.com/blog/2013/07/arrays-vs-lists-in-perl 

Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of Perl (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit I've been guilty of referring to things as being in "Array Context". Does anyone disagree with these postings or have any additional knowledge to share? 

Happy Reading! 

Best Regards, 
Robert Stone 
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From matt at lessthan3.net  Wed Feb 19 08:06:35 2014
From: matt at lessthan3.net (Matthew Dees)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:06:35 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
Message-ID: <CA+o04J4Qi+6u5F5xEDijVpAeaTdvx0sCdyJoeN-6H8vpEsAh_A@mail.gmail.com>

Good stuff, thanks robert!


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Robert Stone <drzigman at drzigman.com>wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I came across this posting that goes into a lot of detail regarding
> context:
> http://perlhacks.com/2013/12/misunderstanding-context/
>
> Linked in that article is also another interesting posting on the
> differences between Arrays and Lists.
> http://friedo.com/blog/2013/07/arrays-vs-lists-in-perl
>
> Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of Perl
> (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit I've been guilty
> of referring to things as being in "Array Context".  Does anyone disagree
> with these postings or have any additional knowledge to share?
>
> Happy Reading!
>
> Best Regards,
> Robert Stone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 19 11:33:10 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:33:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
Message-ID: <1392838390.27914.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I pitched a book called Perl for Python Programmers[0] and it included an entire chapter about how important context is when understanding Perl.

So there's the *number* contexts: void, scalar, list
And there's the *type* contexts: number, string, references

Perl does its best to "Do What You Mean" but sometimes it gets confused and usually contexts don't matter... except when they do.

Would people really like a presentation about contexts in Perl?

[0] - The target audience was programmers who mostly worked in Python but had infrastructure components written in Perl they wanted to understand (and replace.) The company passed on publishing the book.



On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:00 AM, Robert Stone <drzigman at drzigman.com> wrote:
 
Greetings,

I came across this posting that goes into a lot of detail regarding context:
http://perlhacks.com/2013/12/misunderstanding-context/

Linked in that article is also another interesting posting on the differences between Arrays and Lists.
http://friedo.com/blog/2013/07/arrays-vs-lists-in-perl

Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of Perl (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit I've been guilty of referring to things as being in "Array Context". ?Does anyone disagree with these postings or have any additional knowledge to share?

Happy Reading!

Best Regards,
Robert Stone
_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 19 12:02:25 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:02:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
Message-ID: <1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

> Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of Perl 
> (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit I've been 
> guilty of referring to things as being in "Array Context". ?Does anyone 
> disagree with these postings or have any additional knowledge to share?

The only case that should not be used is caught by use warnings.? Maybe I just think in "Perl context" nowadays...

perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a =????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar assignment of list? => 7 #never use this "feature"...
perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)=????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of list? => 5
perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a = @a = (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar assignment of array => 3
perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)= @a = (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of array => 5
perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a =??? @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"' #scalar assignment of defref anon array => 3
perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)=??? @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of defref anon array => 5

I actually don't like the current popular practice of doing

my ($self, $a, $b, $c)=@_;

I much prefer 

my $self = shift;
my $a????= shift;
my $b??? = shift;

as I can

my $self = shift;
my $a??? = shift || "default";
my $b??? = shift // 0;

and actually understand what I did months later.

Mike

mrdvt92 
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Feb 19 12:22:38 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:22:38 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:02:25 -0800 (PST)
"Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of
> > Perl (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit
> > I've been guilty of referring to things as being in "Array
> > Context". ?Does anyone disagree with these postings or have any
> > additional knowledge to share?
> 
> The only case that should not be used is caught by use warnings.
> Maybe I just think in "Perl context" nowadays...
> 
> perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a =????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar
> assignment of list? => 7 #never use this "feature"... perl -Mwarnings
> -e '($a)=????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of list? =>
> 5 perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a = @a = (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar
> assignment of array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)= @a = (5,6,7);
> print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of array => 5 perl -Mwarnings -e '
> $a =??? @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"' #scalar assignment of defref anon
> array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)=??? @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"'
> #array? assignment of defref anon array => 5

Great example.

To be a bit pedantic, the first is not a "scalar assignment of a list"
it is "comma operator in scalar context". Putting parens around
something only makes it a "list" on the left side of an assignment.
And, that is an odd special case.

For those who can't imagine why you would do such a thing, it often
happens when a sub returns a "list" (which it is in list context) and
the calling code assigns it to a scalar. This completely changes how
the return is interpreted.

> I actually don't like the current popular practice of doing
> 
> my ($self, $a, $b, $c)=@_;
> 
> I much prefer 
> 
> my $self = shift;
> my $a????= shift;
> my $b??? = shift;
> 
> as I can
> 
> my $self = shift;
> my $a??? = shift || "default";
> my $b??? = shift // 0;
> 
> and actually understand what I did months later.

Although it only matters in a few circumstances, a single 'my'
statement is marginally faster than multiples. I used to do the
separate statement thing, but now I tend to:

my ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) = @_;
$foo ||= "default";
$baz //= 0;

I vaguely remember something about a cost for the shift, but that may
have been fixed.

The context concept is definitely critical to getting the most out of
Perl.

G. Wade
-- 
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of
knowledge.                                       -- Stephen Hawking

From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 19 12:35:53 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:35:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>
Message-ID: <1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do

sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
? ?$foo ||= 'default';
? ?$baz //= 0;

? ?...;
}

Yay!



On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:22 PM, G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
 
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:02:25 -0800 (PST)
"Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of
> > Perl (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit
> > I've been guilty of referring to things as being in "Array
> > Context". ?Does anyone disagree with these postings or have any
> > additional knowledge to share?
> 
> The only case that should not be used is caught by use warnings.
> Maybe I just think in "Perl context" nowadays...
> 
> perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a =????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar
> assignment of list? => 7 #never use this "feature"... perl -Mwarnings
> -e '($a)=????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of list? =>
> 5 perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a = @a = (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar
> assignment of array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)= @a = (5,6,7);
> print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of array => 5 perl -Mwarnings -e '
> $a =??? @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"' #scalar assignment of defref anon
> array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)=??? @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"'
> #array? assignment of defref anon array => 5

Great example.

To be a bit pedantic, the first is not a "scalar assignment of a list"
it is "comma operator in scalar context". Putting parens around
something only makes it a "list" on the left side of an assignment.
And, that is an odd special case.

For those who can't imagine why you would do such a thing, it often
happens when a sub returns a "list" (which it is in list context) and
the calling code assigns it to a scalar. This completely changes how
the return is interpreted.

> I actually don't like the current popular practice of doing
> 
> my ($self, $a, $b, $c)=@_;
> 
> I much prefer 
> 
> my $self = shift;
> my $a????= shift;
> my $b??? = shift;
> 
> as I can
> 
> my $self = shift;
> my $a??? = shift || "default";
> my $b??? = shift // 0;
> 
> and actually understand what I did months later.

Although it only matters in a few circumstances, a single 'my'
statement is marginally faster than multiples. I used to do the
separate statement thing, but now I tend to:

my ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) = @_;
$foo ||= "default";
$baz //= 0;

I vaguely remember something about a cost for the shift, but that may
have been fixed.

The context concept is definitely critical to getting the most out of
Perl.

G. Wade
-- 
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of
knowledge.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  -- Stephen Hawking

_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From rurban at x-ray.at  Wed Feb 19 13:10:19 2014
From: rurban at x-ray.at (Reini Urban)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:10:19 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
Message-ID: <CAHiT=DHJC+YC+xO3dGcMhiycwBP3xJbZAUSR8ZbtDQrhN15FPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Robert Stone <drzigman at drzigman.com> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I came across this posting that goes into a lot of detail regarding context:
> http://perlhacks.com/2013/12/misunderstanding-context/

But beware if you talk about "context" to a core developer he might
misunderstand you.
In core there's a special context datastructure, the cx, storing scope
information.
http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/RURBAN/illguts-0.47/index.html#context

This article is talking about "gimme", if scalar, list or void (return) context.

> Linked in that article is also another interesting posting on the
> differences between Arrays and Lists.
> http://friedo.com/blog/2013/07/arrays-vs-lists-in-perl

This is a very good one.
Note that p5p just discussed the addition of a count method for arrays
and lists,
to get rid of the misleading name scalar @array,
and to do the right thing for count(@a, @b);

> Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of Perl (Maybe
> someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit I've been guilty of
> referring to things as being in "Array Context".  Does anyone disagree with
> these postings or have any additional knowledge to share?

-- 
Reini Urban
http://cpanel.net/   http://www.perl-compiler.org/

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Feb 19 14:18:43 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:18:43 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>
	<1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20140219161843.6d2a78a2@cygnus>

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:35:53 -0800 (PST)
Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
> 
> sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
> ? ?$foo ||= 'default';
> ? ?$baz //= 0;
> 
> ? ?...;
> }

And, surely, someone will have a Perl script that will convert the old
form into the new one.<grin/>


> Yay!
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:22 PM, G. Wade Johnson
> <gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote: 
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:02:25 -0800 (PST)
> "Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of
> > > Perl (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit
> > > I've been guilty of referring to things as being in "Array
> > > Context". ?Does anyone disagree with these postings or have any
> > > additional knowledge to share?
> > 
> > The only case that should not be used is caught by use warnings.
> > Maybe I just think in "Perl context" nowadays...
> > 
> > perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a =????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar
> > assignment of list? => 7 #never use this "feature"... perl
> > -Mwarnings -e '($a)=????? (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #array? assignment
> > of list? => 5 perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a = @a = (5,6,7); print "$a\n"'
> > #scalar assignment of array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)= @a =
> > (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of array => 5 perl
> > -Mwarnings -e ' $a =??? @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"' #scalar assignment
> > of defref anon array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)=
> > @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"' #array? assignment of defref anon array =>
> > 5
> 
> Great example.
> 
> To be a bit pedantic, the first is not a "scalar assignment of a list"
> it is "comma operator in scalar context". Putting parens around
> something only makes it a "list" on the left side of an assignment.
> And, that is an odd special case.
> 
> For those who can't imagine why you would do such a thing, it often
> happens when a sub returns a "list" (which it is in list context) and
> the calling code assigns it to a scalar. This completely changes how
> the return is interpreted.
> 
> > I actually don't like the current popular practice of doing
> > 
> > my ($self, $a, $b, $c)=@_;
> > 
> > I much prefer 
> > 
> > my $self = shift;
> > my $a????= shift;
> > my $b??? = shift;
> > 
> > as I can
> > 
> > my $self = shift;
> > my $a??? = shift || "default";
> > my $b??? = shift // 0;
> > 
> > and actually understand what I did months later.
> 
> Although it only matters in a few circumstances, a single 'my'
> statement is marginally faster than multiples. I used to do the
> separate statement thing, but now I tend to:
> 
> my ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) = @_;
> $foo ||= "default";
> $baz //= 0;
> 
> I vaguely remember something about a cost for the shift, but that may
> have been fixed.
> 
> The context concept is definitely critical to getting the most out of
> Perl.
> 
> G. Wade


-- 
It is wise to remember that you are one of those who can be fooled some
of the time.                                      -- Laurence J. Peter

From uri at stemsystems.com  Wed Feb 19 21:11:03 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 00:11:03 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1392838390.27914.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392838390.27914.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53058E67.6050708@stemsystems.com>

On 02/19/2014 02:33 PM, Mark Allen wrote:
> I pitched a book called Perl for Python Programmers[0] and it included an entire chapter about how important context is when understanding Perl.
>
> So there's the *number* contexts: void, scalar, list
> And there's the *type* contexts: number, string, references

there is also integer context provided by indexing and various builtins 
that have index or length args (substr, splice, etc). this is why you 
can do the great pick a random element from an array like this:

	my $rand_val = $array[rand @array] ;

no need for an int() there as indexing is an integer context.

there is also boolean context.

the Want.pm module has access to even more contexts like ASSIGN and 
howmany().

thanx,

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From uri at stemsystems.com  Wed Feb 19 21:13:54 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 00:13:54 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53058F12.50401@stemsystems.com>

On 02/19/2014 03:02 PM, Michael R. Davis wrote:

> I actually don't like the current popular practice of doing
>
> my ($self, $a, $b, $c)=@_;
>

i teach that as it is slightly faster (no shifting of @_) and you can 
see all the args in one place. sometimes i have seen bad code with some 
shifts deep in the sub and those are hard to follow.

> I much prefer
>
> my $self = shift;
> my $a    = shift;
> my $b    = shift;
>
> as I can
>
> my $self = shift;
> my $a    = shift || "default";
> my $b    = shift // 0;
>
> and actually understand what I did months later.
>

so just do them later as regular statements without the my. that way you 
get the args in one step, you do defaulting in another.

uri


-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From uri at stemsystems.com  Wed Feb 19 21:25:22 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 00:25:22 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
References: <1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
Message-ID: <530591C2.5020304@stemsystems.com>

On 02/19/2014 11:04 AM, Robert Stone wrote:

>
> Linked in that article is also another interesting posting on the differences between Arrays and Lists.
> http://friedo.com/blog/2013/07/arrays-vs-lists-in-perl
>

in reading that list of differences, i see some issues. arrays aren't 
variables but containers. anon arrays aren't variables either. arrays 
can be referred to by a variable.

and variable (really container) isn't the opposite of ephemeral.

in perl arrays are always one dimensional. that comment is somewhat off.

the point about lists distributing references is true but extremely 
obscure. i can't recall having ever seen code that does \($x, $y, $z) 
and want \$x, \$y, \$z. just a bizarre little corner case that no one 
should need or want to use.

the part about passing arrays to subs is somewhat wrong. what about a 
prototype that takes an array? true, perl passes its reference to the 
sub in @_ but the calling call shows an array being passed in.

what i tell perl students is that:

arrays are allocated from the heap. lists live in the stack.
arrays can live between statements. lists only live in an expression

that is usually enough to clarify the differences. it is all about where 
the data is stored and how long can it live.

thanx,

uri


-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From reini.urban at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 21:31:05 2014
From: reini.urban at gmail.com (Reini Urban)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 23:31:05 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] sigs
Message-ID: <CAHiT=DHHdYhkAJO4Tbx1vPyVrgvkqGyya4wpHn4hbmVWNMhsYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>
> sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>    $foo ||= 'default';
>    $baz //= 0;
>
>    ...;
> }
>
> Yay!


On Feb 19, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>
>sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>   $foo ||= 'default';
>   $baz //= 0;
>   ...;
>}

That can actually be written as:

$ perl5.19.9 -Mexperimental=signatures -E'
sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar="default", $baz=0) {print $foo, $bar} foo(0,1);
'

=> 1default

defaults in the sig declaration

> For those who can't imagine why you would do such a thing, it often
> happens when a sub returns a "list" (which it is in list context) and
> the calling code assigns it to a scalar. This completely changes how
> the return is interpreted.
>
>> I actually don't like the current popular practice of doing
>>
>> my ($self, $a, $b, $c)=@_;
>>
>> I much prefer
>>
>> my $self = shift;
>> my $a    = shift;
>> my $b    = shift;
>>
>> as I can
>>
>> my $self = shift;
>> my $a    = shift || "default";
>> my $b    = shift // 0;
>>
>> and actually understand what I did months later.
>
> Although it only matters in a few circumstances, a single 'my'
> statement is marginally faster than multiples. I used to do the
> separate statement thing, but now I tend to:
>
> my ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) = @_;
> $foo ||= "default";
> $baz //= 0;
>
> I vaguely remember something about a cost for the shift, but that may
> have been fixed.

As said, defaults are now possible within the sig.
The remaining problem is the cost to fill @_ at all, as with such sigs
@_ is only needed for optional &rest args. in perl6-speek: slurpy

But p5p decided to keep @_ around, which is performance hit and a
backwards compat problem for 5.22.

-- 
Reini Urban
http://phpwiki.org/           http://murbreak.at/

From estrabd at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 05:13:40 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:13:40 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>
	<1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALSf6fT7unJGQwL4zcr7GJFmug3osLWw2Z-8JhCFOQ0zzYmL8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>
> sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>    $foo ||= 'default';
>    $baz //= 0;
>
>    ...;
> }
>
> Yay!
>


How will this behave if you call the method with foo(@a, at b, at c, at d) versus
foo(\@a,\@b,\@c,\@d) ?  Does list flattening still occur in this case
necessitating the use array references if you want to pass one array per
parameter?

Brett


>
>
>   On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:22 PM, G. Wade Johnson <
> gwadej at anomaly.org> wrote:
>  On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:02:25 -0800 (PST)
> "Michael R. Davis" <mrdvt92 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Personally I find context one of the most fascinating aspects of
> > > Perl (Maybe someone should do a presentation!) and I must admit
> > > I've been guilty of referring to things as being in "Array
> > > Context".  Does anyone disagree with these postings or have any
> > > additional knowledge to share?
> >
> > The only case that should not be used is caught by use warnings.
> > Maybe I just think in "Perl context" nowadays...
> >
> > perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a =      (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar
> > assignment of list  => 7 #never use this "feature"... perl -Mwarnings
> > -e '($a)=      (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #array  assignment of list  =>
> > 5 perl -Mwarnings -e ' $a = @a = (5,6,7); print "$a\n"' #scalar
> > assignment of array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)= @a = (5,6,7);
> > print "$a\n"' #array  assignment of array => 5 perl -Mwarnings -e '
> > $a =    @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"' #scalar assignment of defref anon
> > array => 3 perl -Mwarnings -e '($a)=    @{[5,6,7]};print "$a\n"'
> > #array  assignment of defref anon array => 5
>
> Great example.
>
> To be a bit pedantic, the first is not a "scalar assignment of a list"
> it is "comma operator in scalar context". Putting parens around
> something only makes it a "list" on the left side of an assignment.
> And, that is an odd special case.
>
> For those who can't imagine why you would do such a thing, it often
> happens when a sub returns a "list" (which it is in list context) and
> the calling code assigns it to a scalar. This completely changes how
> the return is interpreted.
>
> > I actually don't like the current popular practice of doing
> >
> > my ($self, $a, $b, $c)=@_;
> >
> > I much prefer
> >
> > my $self = shift;
> > my $a    = shift;
> > my $b    = shift;
> >
> > as I can
> >
> > my $self = shift;
> > my $a    = shift || "default";
> > my $b    = shift // 0;
> >
> > and actually understand what I did months later.
>
> Although it only matters in a few circumstances, a single 'my'
> statement is marginally faster than multiples. I used to do the
> separate statement thing, but now I tend to:
>
> my ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) = @_;
> $foo ||= "default";
> $baz //= 0;
>
> I vaguely remember something about a cost for the shift, but that may
> have been fixed.
>
> The context concept is definitely critical to getting the most out of
> Perl.
>
> G. Wade
> --
> The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of
> knowledge.                                      -- Stephen Hawking
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From uri at stemsystems.com  Fri Feb 21 06:03:28 2014
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:03:28 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <CALSf6fT7unJGQwL4zcr7GJFmug3osLWw2Z-8JhCFOQ0zzYmL8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>
	<1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CALSf6fT7unJGQwL4zcr7GJFmug3osLWw2Z-8JhCFOQ0zzYmL8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53075CB0.2030609@stemsystems.com>

On 02/21/2014 08:13 AM, B. Estrade wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>>
>> sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>>     $foo ||= 'default';
>>     $baz //= 0;
>>
>>     ...;
>> }
>>
>> Yay!
>>
>
>
> How will this behave if you call the method with foo(@a, at b, at c, at d) versus
> foo(\@a,\@b,\@c,\@d) ?  Does list flattening still occur in this case
> necessitating the use array references if you want to pass one array per
> parameter?
>

sub calls always flatten into @_. the only way to pass individual arrays 
is by reference. prototypes (not recommended in most cases) do allow 
arrays to be parsed as single args but they are actually passed as 
references.

uri


-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com

From estrabd at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 07:05:03 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:05:03 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <53075CB0.2030609@stemsystems.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>
	<1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CALSf6fT7unJGQwL4zcr7GJFmug3osLWw2Z-8JhCFOQ0zzYmL8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<53075CB0.2030609@stemsystems.com>
Message-ID: <CALSf6fQ5gCtogUb+C_f_Mwp732gx4sVRp9O-dFCn2ZmyKhYFTg@mail.gmail.com>

So I guess with the signatures, the answer is "it depends" since it'll work
with signatures as one might expect (i.e., the flattened array would have
to have each element correspond to a sig parameter) or the sig parameter
may very well be data type passed by reference.

I read up on the signature thing, and I doubt I'll find it useful for
anything. It's also experimental, so requires an explicit feature 'use' and
can be taken out at any time.

http://search.cpan.org/~tonyc/perl-5.19.9/pod/perlsub.pod#Signatures

It seems a squishy and a little general, maybe it'd be better if one could
specific the Perl data type (scalar, hashref, arrayref, etc) via the
signature definition.

Brett


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:

> On 02/21/2014 08:13 AM, B. Estrade wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>  When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>>>
>>> sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>>>     $foo ||= 'default';
>>>     $baz //= 0;
>>>
>>>     ...;
>>> }
>>>
>>> Yay!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> How will this behave if you call the method with foo(@a, at b, at c, at d) versus
>> foo(\@a,\@b,\@c,\@d) ?  Does list flattening still occur in this case
>> necessitating the use array references if you want to pass one array per
>> parameter?
>>
>>
> sub calls always flatten into @_. the only way to pass individual arrays
> is by reference. prototypes (not recommended in most cases) do allow arrays
> to be parsed as single args but they are actually passed as references.
>
>
> uri
>
>
> --
> Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
> The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
> http://PerlHunter.com
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 21 08:13:02 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:13:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <CALSf6fQ5gCtogUb+C_f_Mwp732gx4sVRp9O-dFCn2ZmyKhYFTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>	<1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<CALSf6fT7unJGQwL4zcr7GJFmug3osLWw2Z-8JhCFOQ0zzYmL8Q@mail.gmail.com>	<53075CB0.2030609@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fQ5gCtogUb+C_f_Mwp732gx4sVRp9O-dFCn2ZmyKhYFTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1392999182.28658.YahooMailNeo@web164004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I think it's a pretty great 1st start. ?And you *can* have a slurpy arg in the final position. Plus everything's still in @_ if you want to be traditional or modify stuff using topic variables.



On Friday, February 21, 2014 9:05 AM, B. Estrade <estrabd at gmail.com> wrote:
 
So I guess with the signatures, the answer is "it depends" since it'll work with signatures as one might expect (i.e., the flattened array would have to have each element correspond to a sig parameter) or the sig parameter may very well be data type passed by reference.

I read up on the signature thing, and I doubt I'll find it useful for anything. It's also experimental, so requires an explicit feature 'use' and can be taken out at any time.

http://search.cpan.org/~tonyc/perl-5.19.9/pod/perlsub.pod#Signatures


It seems a squishy and a little general, maybe it'd be better if one could specific the Perl data type (scalar, hashref, arrayref, etc) via the signature definition.

Brett



On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:

On 02/21/2014 08:13 AM, B. Estrade wrote:
>
>On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>>>
>>>sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>>>? ? $foo ||= 'default';
>>>? ? $baz //= 0;
>>>
>>>? ? ...;
>>>}
>>>
>>>Yay!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>How will this behave if you call the method with foo(@a, at b, at c, at d) versus
>>foo(\@a,\@b,\@c,\@d) ? ?Does list flattening still occur in this case
>>necessitating the use array references if you want to pass one array per
>>parameter?
>>
>>
>
sub calls always flatten into @_. the only way to pass individual arrays is by reference. prototypes (not recommended in most cases) do allow arrays to be parsed as single args but they are actually passed as references.
>
>
>uri
>
>
>-- 
>Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
>The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
>http://PerlHunter.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>Houston mailing list
>Houston at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>


_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From estrabd at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 08:44:45 2014
From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:44:45 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <1392999182.28658.YahooMailNeo@web164004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>
	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>
	<1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CALSf6fT7unJGQwL4zcr7GJFmug3osLWw2Z-8JhCFOQ0zzYmL8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<53075CB0.2030609@stemsystems.com>
	<CALSf6fQ5gCtogUb+C_f_Mwp732gx4sVRp9O-dFCn2ZmyKhYFTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1392999182.28658.YahooMailNeo@web164004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALSf6fS_7s=pozTvkuqVbrFVM9f-pqyCwSaeYgPTdmwZcZon4w@mail.gmail.com>

I am just wondering, what's it a start for? I don't get all upset about
language features because this is all optional anyway, but I am curious
about what groundwork this is laying.

Brett


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think it's a pretty great 1st start.  And you *can* have a slurpy arg in
> the final position. Plus everything's still in @_ if you want to be
> traditional or modify stuff using topic variables.
>
>
>   On Friday, February 21, 2014 9:05 AM, B. Estrade <estrabd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>   So I guess with the signatures, the answer is "it depends" since it'll
> work with signatures as one might expect (i.e., the flattened array would
> have to have each element correspond to a sig parameter) or the sig
> parameter may very well be data type passed by reference.
>
> I read up on the signature thing, and I doubt I'll find it useful for
> anything. It's also experimental, so requires an explicit feature 'use' and
> can be taken out at any time.
>
> http://search.cpan.org/~tonyc/perl-5.19.9/pod/perlsub.pod#Signatures
>
> It seems a squishy and a little general, maybe it'd be better if one could
> specific the Perl data type (scalar, hashref, arrayref, etc) via the
> signature definition.
>
> Brett
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
>
> On 02/21/2014 08:13 AM, B. Estrade wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>
> sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>     $foo ||= 'default';
>     $baz //= 0;
>
>     ...;
> }
>
> Yay!
>
>
>
> How will this behave if you call the method with foo(@a, at b, at c, at d) versus
> foo(\@a,\@b,\@c,\@d) ?  Does list flattening still occur in this case
> necessitating the use array references if you want to pass one array per
> parameter?
>
>
> sub calls always flatten into @_. the only way to pass individual arrays
> is by reference. prototypes (not recommended in most cases) do allow arrays
> to be parsed as single args but they are actually passed as references.
>
>
> uri
>
>
> --
> Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
> The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
> http://PerlHunter.com <http://perlhunter.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
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From x at hostgator.com  Fri Feb 21 12:07:41 2014
From: x at hostgator.com (Xaviar)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:07:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [pm-h] YAPC + Houston & Austin PM + HostGator
Message-ID: <768674056.6146392.1393013261076.JavaMail.root@hostgator.com>

Hey Perl Mongers!

We really appreciate everyone's attendance at HostGator for the recent Perl Monger's event. As I mentioned during the event, HostGator is proud to be sponsoring both the local Perl Mongers group and to be a YAPC sponsor again this year. We're still finalizing that sponsorship, but one of the things we'd like to do is create a custom t-shirt that we'll be handing out at YAPC that showcases our love for the local Perl communities and YAPC with a little bit of a Snappy flare.

I'd love to get some ideas from everyone in both the Houston and Austin Perl Monger groups if there is anyone creative out there. (Creative developers, that's a thing right? ;)

When we finalize the shirts, we'll also be bringing some to one of the meetings before YAPC to hand some out as well. That way any of you going to YAPC this year can showcase your local Perl support as well! (Or just get a cool free t-shirt eh?)

I'd love to hear some ideas if anyone has them. Feel free to toss them around the group, or to email them to me directly.

Cheers,
Xaviar Steavenson
Director of Software Development
HostGator.com


From mrallen1 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 21 12:08:04 2014
From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:08:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Interesting Blog Posts on Context & Array vs List
In-Reply-To: <CALSf6fS_7s=pozTvkuqVbrFVM9f-pqyCwSaeYgPTdmwZcZon4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <442072741.85110.1392825414309.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>	<1822044120.85172.1392825899008.JavaMail.zimbra@drzigman.com>	<1392840145.1036.YahooMailNeo@web121005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>	<20140219142238.46a87078@cygnus>	<1392842153.51824.YahooMailNeo@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<CALSf6fT7unJGQwL4zcr7GJFmug3osLWw2Z-8JhCFOQ0zzYmL8Q@mail.gmail.com>	<53075CB0.2030609@stemsystems.com>	<CALSf6fQ5gCtogUb+C_f_Mwp732gx4sVRp9O-dFCn2ZmyKhYFTg@mail.gmail.com>	<1392999182.28658.YahooMailNeo@web164004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CALSf6fS_7s=pozTvkuqVbrFVM9f-pqyCwSaeYgPTdmwZcZon4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1393013284.822.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I don't know much programming you do in other languages, but honestly, it's a little bit uh, disappointing that Perl 5 can't unpack @_ into variables automatically after 25 years.?

What is it laying the groundwork for? ?Having a first class mop/object system is the most immediately obvious extension. ?Whether you think mop/method signatures are Good Things or not I couldn't say, but I think it's long overdue for both.

So I say, more like this please.

Mark



On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:44 AM, B. Estrade <estrabd at gmail.com> wrote:
 
I am just wondering, what's it a start for? I don't get all upset about language features because this is all optional anyway, but I am curious about what groundwork this is laying.

Brett



On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

I think it's a pretty great 1st start. ?And you *can* have a slurpy arg in the final position. Plus everything's still in @_ if you want to be traditional or modify stuff using topic variables.
>
>
>
>On Friday, February 21, 2014 9:05 AM, B. Estrade <estrabd at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>So I guess with the signatures, the answer is "it depends" since it'll work with signatures as one might expect (i.e., the flattened array would have to have each element correspond to a sig parameter) or the sig parameter may very well be data type passed by reference.
>
>
>I read up on the signature thing, and I doubt I'll find it useful for anything. It's also experimental, so requires an explicit feature 'use' and can be taken out at any time.
>
>
>http://search.cpan.org/~tonyc/perl-5.19.9/pod/perlsub.pod#Signatures
>
>
>
>It seems a squishy and a little general, maybe it'd be better if one could specific the Perl data type (scalar, hashref, arrayref, etc) via the signature definition.
>
>
>Brett
>
>
>
>On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
>
>On 02/21/2014 08:13 AM, B. Estrade wrote:
>>
>>On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Mark Allen <mrallen1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>When subroutine signatures are released in 5.20, you'll be able to do
>>>>
>>>>sub foo ($self, $foo, $bar, $baz) {
>>>>? ? $foo ||= 'default';
>>>>? ? $baz //= 0;
>>>>
>>>>? ? ...;
>>>>}
>>>>
>>>>Yay!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>How will this behave if you call the method with foo(@a, at b, at c, at d) versus
>>>foo(\@a,\@b,\@c,\@d) ? ?Does list flattening still occur in this case
>>>necessitating the use array references if you want to pass one array per
>>>parameter?
>>>
>>>
>>
sub calls always flatten into @_. the only way to pass individual arrays is by reference. prototypes (not recommended in most cases) do allow arrays to be parsed as single args but they are actually passed as references.
>>
>>
>>uri
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
>>The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
>>http://PerlHunter.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Houston mailing list
>>Houston at pm.org
>>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>>Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Houston mailing list
>Houston at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Houston mailing list
>Houston at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>


_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
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From mrdvt92 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 24 14:56:30 2014
From: mrdvt92 at yahoo.com (Michael R. Davis)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:56:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pm-h] Houston Perl Job - Perl/SQL Application Support Analyst
Message-ID: <1393282590.79822.YahooMailNeo@web121003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Perl Folks,
We have a Houston position open for an?enthusiastic Perl person to come join our team.? Please have interested candidates, who may?not be strong in Perl, but very strong in SQL to send me their resumes.? I'll mentor anyone, who really wants to?learn?Perl on Linux.
Thanks,
Mike
?
Cross Posting...
?
http://jobs.perl.org/job/18416
?
?
Perl/SQL Application Support Analyst
Posted: ?February 24, 2014 
Company name: ?Satellite Tracking of People LLC. 
Internal ID: ?Tier3-2014-02 
Location: ?Houston, TX 
Country: ?United States 
Poster represents: ?an employer 
Terms of employment: ?Salaried employee 
Hours: ?Full time 
Onsite: ?yes 

Description: ?The Satellite Tracking of People LLC has an outstanding opportunity for a full-time Perl/SQL Application Support Analyst, who will be responsible for internal and external client application support, data management, and process automation, with a specialization in large relational SQL databases in an enterprise environment. 
Authorization to work in the United States is required. Salary is commensurate with experience and qualifications in the Houston market. Direct hire position is in Houston, TX. 90-day on-site contract to hire is available for qualified candidate referrals. 

Required skills: ?
? Bachelors of Science (e.g. Statistics, Mathematics, etc.) 
? 5+ years hands-on experience with in SQL (Oracle experience preferred) 
? 3+ years professional programming experience with Perl 5; Experience with Perl Best Practices; POD (perlpod and pod2html); Experience or familiarity with CPAN modules including: DBI/DBD, JSON, and Test::More. Experience with creating Perl modules (e.g. modulemaker) with complete unit tests and RPM spec file integration. (e.g. cpanspec and rpmbuild) 
? 3+ years hands-on experience with visual database access tools (Toad for Oracle preferred) 
? 2+ years hands-on experience with Linux command line (Fedora/CentOS preferred) 
? 1+ years hands-on experience with version control systems (Subversion preferred) 
? 1+ years experience in the client service and support industry (Sales, Tier 1/2/3) 

Desired skills: ?
? Exceptional communication and presentation skills. 
? Exceptional organizational skills. 
? Ability to multi-task in a fast-paced environment. 
? Experience with data management on a large Oracle instance. 
? Advanced knowledge of Oracle and writing SQL queries to perform on large data sets. 
? Superior analytical and problem resolution with custom web applications and services. 
? Experience in testing, quality and change management methodologies. 
? Experience in supporting custom web applications 
? Experience with a Customer Resource Management (CRM) ticket management system. 

Website for more information: ?http://www.stopllc.com/ 
?
Contact information: ?Michael R. Davis 
mdavis at stopllc.com 
Send resume and links to any open source software to which you have contributed and/or links to CPAN packages that you maintain. 
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From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Feb 25 11:04:03 2014
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:04:03 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] March Technical Meeting: Indexing Stuff & Things with Sphinx
 and Perl/SPAM Handling with Mail::SpamAssassin
Message-ID: <20140225130403.3ad3a193@cygnus>

We have two shorter talks for March (Thursday, March 13).

In the first, Brett Estrade discusses what he has learned using the
Sphinx indexing system. In the second talk, Todd Rinaldo will talk
about SPAM handling with Mail::SpamAssassin.

We will meet back at cPanel (3131 W. Alabama). As usual, we will meet
in the lobby between 6:30 and 7pm. We'll go up to the meeting room by
7pm (or when a big enough group gathers).

G. Wade Johnson
-- 
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
                                                -- Laurence J. Peter

From toddr at cpanel.net  Fri Feb 28 07:18:39 2014
From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:18:39 -0600
Subject: [pm-h] Toronto.pm talks from last might.
References: <860C3CD7-3B27-4CA4-B4C7-09035EEEDD92@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C78EE6DA-1F2C-4859-AC7E-624AC491C342@cpanel.net>

In case anyone wants to watch. Looks like some good talks!

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com>
> Subject: [tpm] last night's talks
> Date: February 28, 2014 at 8:45:04 AM CST
> To: toronto-pm at pm.org
> 
> Are now archived in our Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkEbKzmmdTg  I watched from home and the audio + video was great.  At least it was, after the 15:00 mark, when the talks actually got started.
> 
> I think we need to document our process somewhere -- maybe the github wiki, so that we can streamline how the hangout system works.  On the whole, though, it was great to be able to follow along at home and Matt and Chris both did excellent jobs.  It was nice to see them so well prepared.  We had a fair number (maybe 11?) of others tune in to watch the hangout remotely, with one watcher as far away as Israel.  So, we're expanding our reach. :)
> 
> Olaf
> --
> Olaf Alders
> olaf.alders at gmail.com
> 
> http://www.wundercounter.com
> http://twitter.com/wundercounter
> 
> 866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
> 416 944 8306 (direct)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm