From gwadej at anomaly.org Fri Feb 1 05:20:14 2013 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 07:20:14 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Fw: MongoDB Austin 2013 Message-ID: <20130201072014.089d4a5c@cygnus> I got this through Meetup and thought some people might be interested. Begin forwarded message: "Hi all - I thought that some of you would be interested in attending MongoDB Austin (http://www.10gen.com/events/mongodb-austin-2013), the annual conference dedicated to the open source, NoSQL database MongoDB. This year?s event will be held on February 15 and will include a wide variety of sessions to meet the needs of developers and administrators at all levels of expertise. Highlighted talks include: Lessons Learned from Building a Multi-Tenant Saas Content Management System on MongoDB, Jonathan Roeder, Volusion Optimizing Slow Queries with Indexes and Creativity, Chris Winslett MongoHQ High Performance, Scaleable, MongoDB in a Bare Metal Cloud, Softlayer Playing in Tune: How We Refactored Cube to Terabyte Scale, Philip Kromer, Infochimps Hope to see you there! Cheers" thanks again! -francesca" -- Francesca Krihely -- There will always be things we wish to say in our programs that in all known languages can only be said poorly. -- Alan Perlis From todd at rinaldo.us Fri Feb 1 09:51:23 2013 From: todd at rinaldo.us (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:51:23 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Fw: MongoDB Austin 2013 In-Reply-To: <20130201072014.089d4a5c@cygnus> References: <20130201072014.089d4a5c@cygnus> Message-ID: Man! Is Austin the place to have conferences this year or what? On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 7:20 AM, G. Wade Johnson wrote: > I got this through Meetup and thought some people might be interested. > > Begin forwarded message: > > "Hi all - > > I thought that some of you would be interested in attending MongoDB > Austin (http://www.10gen.com/events/mongodb-austin-2013), the annual > conference dedicated to the open source, NoSQL database MongoDB. This > year?s event will be held on February 15 and will include a wide > variety of sessions to meet the needs of developers and administrators > at all levels of expertise. > > Highlighted talks include: > > Lessons Learned from Building a Multi-Tenant Saas Content Management > System on MongoDB, Jonathan Roeder, Volusion Optimizing Slow Queries > with Indexes and Creativity, Chris Winslett MongoHQ High Performance, > Scaleable, MongoDB in a Bare Metal Cloud, Softlayer Playing in Tune: > How We Refactored Cube to Terabyte Scale, Philip Kromer, Infochimps > > > Hope to see you there! > > Cheers" > > > thanks again! > > -francesca" > > -- Francesca Krihely > -- > There will always be things we wish to say in our programs that in all > known languages can only be said poorly. -- Alan Perlis > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ -- Todd Rinaldo todd at rinaldo.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rurban at x-ray.at Fri Feb 1 10:10:28 2013 From: rurban at x-ray.at (Reini Urban) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:10:28 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Fw: MongoDB Austin 2013 In-Reply-To: References: <20130201072014.089d4a5c@cygnus> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Todd Rinaldo wrote: > Man! Is Austin the place to have conferences this year or what? Not only this year: * SXSW * Austin Film Festival And some 24 more: http://www.realtyaustin.com/blog/upcoming-austin-festivals-20122013.html -- Reini Urban http://cpanel.net/ http://www.perl-compiler.org/ From estrabd at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 07:52:41 2013 From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:52:41 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? Message-ID: It's a bike shed (symbolic and shrewd as it may be), but I like the idea...and not just because I've mentioned this myself to anyone who'd listen. :) http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/02/perl-7.html Brett From mrallen1 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 6 08:39:29 2013 From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 08:39:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This conversational topic comes up from time to time and it really is a bikeshed. It's going to take more than a new version number to get (most) people (re-)interested in Perl in a major way. That's my NSHO. Mark ________________________________ From: B. Estrade To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:52 AM Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? It's a bike shed (symbolic and shrewd as it may be), but I like the idea...and not just because I've mentioned this myself to anyone who'd listen. :) ? ? http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/02/perl-7.html Brett _______________________________________________ Houston mailing list Houston at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston Website: http://houston.pm.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From estrabd at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 09:05:56 2013 From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 11:05:56 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mark Allen wrote: > This conversational topic comes up from time to time and it really is a > bikeshed. > > It's going to take more than a new version number to get (most) people > (re-)interested in Perl in a major way. > > That's my NSHO. This is a good recent interview with Damian Conway. http://www.infoq.com/interviews/conway-perl He compares Perl to the air we breath, you don't notice it much because it's all around you. I tend to agree. Regarding the lack of interest in Perl, I've come to the conclusion that if you come from a traditional *nix POV, Perl is inevitable in your progression from writing shell scripts. Some move on, but I gather many do not - and why would you? My point is that it might have more to do with a decline (or lack of noise from) true *nixphiles. You might jump to Ruby due to Puppet if you're managing largish infrastructure; I am not sure how one would fall into Python from this path, but I am sure there are ways. People who poo-poo Perl 5 typically are typically paradigm (OOP/functional/DSL) zealots and language snobs. I think it gets lost on them the originating purpose and goals of Perl. In the video Conway makes another good point that nearly all languages do most things well or good enough. This is an indication that programming languages and environments are pretty close to being a "finished" technology (sort of like cars, radios, tvs, refrigerators, etc). The point of me bringing this up is to say that I think at this point in the game, people are making language decisions on the same kinds of reasons that they choose to drive one car over the other. Brett > > Mark > > ________________________________ > From: B. Estrade > To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." > Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:52 AM > Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? > > It's a bike shed (symbolic and shrewd as it may be), but I like the > idea...and not just because I've mentioned this myself to anyone who'd > listen. :) > > http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/02/perl-7.html > > Brett > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ From rurban at x-ray.at Wed Feb 6 09:09:11 2013 From: rurban at x-ray.at (Reini Urban) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 11:09:11 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mark Allen wrote: > This conversational topic comes up from time to time and it really is a > bikeshed. > > It's going to take more than a new version number to get (most) people > (re-)interested in Perl in a major way. We discussed how to name the new perl forks, and thought that a combination of perl5 and perl6 would make most sense. perl5 compatible syntax with added but not contradicting perl6 features. A common runtime, with exchangable parts. Hence the name perl11, my project is called p2. 5+6=11 p2: 2nd perl http://perl11.org/ http://perl11.org/p2/ > That's my NSHO. > > Mark > > ________________________________ > From: B. Estrade > To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." > Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:52 AM > Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? > > It's a bike shed (symbolic and shrewd as it may be), but I like the > idea...and not just because I've mentioned this myself to anyone who'd > listen. :) > > http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/02/perl-7.html > > Brett > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ -- Reini Urban http://cpanel.net/ http://www.perl-compiler.org/ From mrallen1 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 6 10:17:05 2013 From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 10:17:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1360174625.16094.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> That looks pretty cool Reini. I'd never seen that before. How come you never talk about that stuff at PM meetings? :) ________________________________ From: Reini Urban To: Mark Allen ; "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [pm-h] Perl 7? On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mark Allen wrote: > This conversational topic comes up from time to time and it really is a > bikeshed. > > It's going to take more than a new version number to get (most) people > (re-)interested in Perl in a major way. We discussed how to name the new perl forks, and thought that a combination of perl5 and perl6 would make most sense. perl5 compatible syntax with added but not contradicting perl6 features. A common runtime, with exchangable parts. Hence the name perl11, my project is called p2. 5+6=11 p2: 2nd perl http://perl11.org/ http://perl11.org/p2/ > That's my NSHO. > > Mark > > ________________________________ > From: B. Estrade > To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." > Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:52 AM > Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? > > It's a bike shed (symbolic and shrewd as it may be), but I like the > idea...and not just because I've mentioned this myself to anyone who'd > listen. :) > >? ? http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/02/perl-7.html > > Brett > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ -- Reini Urban http://cpanel.net/? http://www.perl-compiler.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrallen1 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 6 10:35:55 2013 From: mrallen1 at yahoo.com (Mark Allen) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 10:35:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1360175755.59780.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The routes one comes to a programming language are definitely varied in nature and scope. And most of the people I work with don't argue that Perl isn't capable, its just that in so many different ways, there's a strong bias toward something else. Speaking about my own $DAYJOB now, we use quite a bit of Perl internally, the most interesting application being a security-analysis DSL that processes hundreds of thousands of security events an hour. But we have long past reached the point where Perl (yes, we are using *shudder* threaded Perl) can handle this load at scale and we are replacing the whole lot of it with Erlang (Real Soon Now). On my own team which writes common enterprise web services, our bias is toward Erlang and then Python as a fallback. ?On the common UI front our bias is toward Javascript and PHP (although we are currently in a Thunderdome style death match between PHP and Python - two languages enter, one language leaves...) ?The bias towards a back end processing language here is not actually a "vanity" preference, although those biases seep into the choice among suitable languages for the job (for example, there's no technical reason why we should necessarily pick Erlang over Go or Clojure, we just happen to have a number of talented Erlang programmers here already so why move away from it when it's totally adequate? (P.S. Don't get me wrong, Erlang has a syntax only its mother could love, and it drives me crazy sometimes, but people say that about Perl too :))) If your primarily object with a given programming language "A" is to serve requests for content over HTTP, then yes, there are about 11ty billion (give or take 3) that will meet your needs. Heck you could probably write a whole Mojo style HTTP service stack in Brainfuck (not that you should! mind you), so on that point I agree that a lot of language preference tends to be some kind of vanity choice (like, I am really smug, so I need to write Ruby, or I am really anal about whitespace, so I need to write in Python, or I prefer to write what looks like line noise so I pick Perl...) So anyway, alas, my interaction with Perl in a day-to-day way is mostly in my side projects or in my role as a maintainer of perldoc or Net::Amazon::EC2 and I don't expect that will be changing soon even if I were to take a new $DAYJOB somewhere. (P.P.S. Note to any recruiters: not currently looking, but thanks for asking.) Mark ________________________________ From: B. Estrade To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [pm-h] Perl 7? On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mark Allen wrote: > This conversational topic comes up from time to time and it really is a > bikeshed. > > It's going to take more than a new version number to get (most) people > (re-)interested in Perl in a major way. > > That's my NSHO. This is a good recent interview with Damian Conway. http://www.infoq.com/interviews/conway-perl He compares Perl to the air we breath, you don't notice it much because it's all around you. I tend to agree. Regarding the lack of interest in Perl, I've come to the conclusion that if you come from a traditional *nix POV, Perl is inevitable in your progression from writing shell scripts.? Some move on, but I gather many do not - and why would you?? My point is that it might have more to do with a decline (or lack of noise from) true *nixphiles.? You might jump to Ruby due to Puppet if you're managing largish infrastructure; I am not sure how one would fall into Python from this path, but I am sure there are ways. People who poo-poo Perl 5 typically are typically paradigm (OOP/functional/DSL) zealots and language snobs. I think it gets lost on them the originating purpose and goals of Perl. In the video Conway makes another good point that nearly all languages do most things well or good enough. This is an indication that programming languages and environments are pretty close to being a "finished" technology (sort of like cars, radios, tvs, refrigerators, etc).? The point of me bringing this up is to say that I think at this point in the game, people are making language decisions on the same kinds of reasons that they choose to drive one car over the other. Brett > > Mark > > ________________________________ > From: B. Estrade > To: "Houston.pm located in Houston, TX." > Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:52 AM > Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? > > It's a bike shed (symbolic and shrewd as it may be), but I like the > idea...and not just because I've mentioned this myself to anyone who'd > listen. :) > >? ? http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2013/02/perl-7.html > > Brett > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ _______________________________________________ Houston mailing list Houston at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston Website: http://houston.pm.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rurban at x-ray.at Wed Feb 6 11:08:31 2013 From: rurban at x-ray.at (Reini Urban) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 13:08:31 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: <1360174625.16094.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1360174625.16094.YahooMailNeo@web164003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Mark Allen wrote: > That looks pretty cool Reini. I'd never seen that before. How come you never > talk about that stuff at PM meetings? :) VM design is way over all heads, I guess. And since p5p reacts pretty hysterical lately on critic, I better keep quiet and work on it alone, until it works reasonably well. I'm happy that all the attention is on Moe, which is just a little pugs-like experiment. p2 is the more realistic attempt to get p5 improved and get p6 done, since parrot failed and the jvm is unrealistic. perl11 is just a small group. We hang out on irc://irc.perl.org/#perl11 -- Reini Urban http://cpanel.net/ http://www.perl-compiler.org/ From gwadej at anomaly.org Wed Feb 6 18:39:49 2013 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:39:49 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130206203949.0f49df17@cygnus> On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 11:05:56 -0600 "B. Estrade" wrote: > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mark Allen > wrote: > > This conversational topic comes up from time to time and it really > > is a bikeshed. > > > > It's going to take more than a new version number to get (most) > > people (re-)interested in Perl in a major way. > > > > That's my NSHO. > > This is a good recent interview with Damian Conway. > > http://www.infoq.com/interviews/conway-perl > > He compares Perl to the air we breath, you don't notice it much > because it's all around you. I tend to agree. I like that. > Regarding the lack of interest in Perl, I've come to the conclusion > that if you come from a traditional *nix POV, Perl is inevitable in > your progression from writing shell scripts. Some move on, but I > gather many do not - and why would you? My point is that it might > have more to do with a decline (or lack of noise from) true > *nixphiles. You might jump to Ruby due to Puppet if you're managing > largish infrastructure; I am not sure how one would fall into Python > from this path, but I am sure there are ways. > > People who poo-poo Perl 5 typically are typically paradigm > (OOP/functional/DSL) zealots and language snobs. I think it gets lost > on them the originating purpose and goals of Perl. Despite the somewhat inflammatory terminology, I partly agree with you. I know 15 years ago, it seemed that every book I saw on Java had an obligatory "bash other languages, but especially Perl" chapter. In a way, it was inevitable. Back then, Perl was the language to beat in the non-compiled space. Almost everyone felt the need to show why they were better than the established language. > In the video Conway makes another good point that nearly all languages > do most things well or good enough. This is an indication that Since all general purpose languages are Turing-Complete, there is nothing that one can do that cannot be done in all. The differences are more in syntax, culture, and what the language makes easy. > programming languages and environments are pretty close to being a > "finished" technology (sort of like cars, radios, tvs, refrigerators, > etc). The point of me bringing this up is to say that I think at this > point in the game, people are making language decisions on the same > kinds of reasons that they choose to drive one car over the other. I think you are right. In a lot of ways, you could argue that programmers pick a language because of the way it looks and who are the people using it. Unfortunately, programmers seem to try to convince themselves that they are making these kinds of decisions (programming language, editor, brace style) for logical, rational reasons. I wrote about this almost two years ago (http://anomaly.org/wade/blog/2011/03/programmer_beliefs.html). Shrug, G. Wade -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Windows lie. From estrabd at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 12:31:04 2013 From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 14:31:04 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: <20130206203949.0f49df17@cygnus> References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20130206203949.0f49df17@cygnus> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:39 PM, G. Wade Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 11:05:56 -0600 > "B. Estrade" wrote: > >> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mark Allen >> wrote: >> > This conversational topic comes up from time to time and it really >> > is a bikeshed. >> > >> > It's going to take more than a new version number to get (most) >> > people (re-)interested in Perl in a major way. >> > >> > That's my NSHO. >> >> This is a good recent interview with Damian Conway. >> >> http://www.infoq.com/interviews/conway-perl >> >> He compares Perl to the air we breath, you don't notice it much >> because it's all around you. I tend to agree. > > I like that. > >> Regarding the lack of interest in Perl, I've come to the conclusion >> that if you come from a traditional *nix POV, Perl is inevitable in >> your progression from writing shell scripts. Some move on, but I >> gather many do not - and why would you? My point is that it might >> have more to do with a decline (or lack of noise from) true >> *nixphiles. You might jump to Ruby due to Puppet if you're managing >> largish infrastructure; I am not sure how one would fall into Python >> from this path, but I am sure there are ways. >> >> People who poo-poo Perl 5 typically are typically paradigm >> (OOP/functional/DSL) zealots and language snobs. I think it gets lost >> on them the originating purpose and goals of Perl. > > Despite the somewhat inflammatory terminology, I partly agree with you. > I know 15 years ago, it seemed that every book I saw on Java had an > obligatory "bash other languages, but especially Perl" chapter. In a > way, it was inevitable. Back then, Perl was the language to beat in the > non-compiled space. Almost everyone felt the need to show why they were > better than the established language. I meant no offense. Perl was more or less a toehold for me during a part of my life spent lost in the blue sky of academia. Without it, I might have lost my marbles big time. The video of the roundtable at HOPL III with Larry Wall as a panelist is pretty interesting. He's surrounded by some pretty heavy hitting academics who have a dog in the paradigm space. It's behind a paywall, but if you have ACM access, it is really worth a watch (really just to see how awkward it is as points). http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1238844 > >> In the video Conway makes another good point that nearly all languages >> do most things well or good enough. This is an indication that > > Since all general purpose languages are Turing-Complete, there is > nothing that one can do that cannot be done in all. The differences are > more in syntax, culture, and what the language makes easy. > >> programming languages and environments are pretty close to being a >> "finished" technology (sort of like cars, radios, tvs, refrigerators, >> etc). The point of me bringing this up is to say that I think at this >> point in the game, people are making language decisions on the same >> kinds of reasons that they choose to drive one car over the other. > > I think you are right. In a lot of ways, you could argue that > programmers pick a language because of the way it looks and who are the > people using it. > > Unfortunately, programmers seem to try to convince themselves that they > are making these kinds of decisions (programming language, editor, > brace style) for logical, rational reasons. Yeah, and they get into arguments and angry over it. Clearly an indication that something irrational is happening. > > I wrote about this almost two years ago > (http://anomaly.org/wade/blog/2011/03/programmer_beliefs.html). Nice article. Thank you, Brett > > Shrug, > G. Wade > -- > One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, > One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them, > In the land of Redmond, where the Windows lie. > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ From cblanc at dionysius.com Thu Feb 7 13:29:48 2013 From: cblanc at dionysius.com (chris blanc) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 15:29:48 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl 7? In-Reply-To: References: <1360168769.91010.YahooMailNeo@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20130206203949.0f49df17@cygnus> Message-ID: >>> Regarding the lack of interest in Perl, I've come to the conclusion >>> that if you come from a traditional *nix POV, Perl is inevitable in >>> your progression from writing shell scripts. Interesting. I view it as a way to civilize Windows, in addition to many other uses. It seems to me that Perl's decline came about when people started using web frameworks based in other languages. Web frameworks separate a programmer from the gnarly low-level aspects of web programming and make it easy set up a web application. To rectify that, it's worth spending some time promoting this guy: http://www.catalystframework.org/ From will.willis at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 18:25:47 2013 From: will.willis at gmail.com (Will Willis) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 20:25:47 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] aggregated perldelta Message-ID: When "big" features are announced with a release, undoubtedly someone in the community will post slides or a write up on the new release, why you should start using it in production tomorrow, yadda, yadda... given/when, defined-or, and named captures are a few that come to mind, I think that was back in 5.10, and there was certainly a lot to write around that time. I wasn't able to find any write ups online for the latest release, either there were no newsworthy new features, or my google-foo is weak. I know about perlXdelta.pod, that shows the delta between the last release of perl, but is there a way to programmatically get a synopsis of new features (and/or fixes) in perl-Y since perl-X? Specifically, I'm curious what great new features I should be using that were introduced after 5.10 (not that I'm even using all of those yet), but would like to learn how to fish for these answers myself (if possible) rather than posting to a list :) Thanks. Will -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rurban at x-ray.at Thu Feb 7 18:40:58 2013 From: rurban at x-ray.at (Reini Urban) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 20:40:58 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] aggregated perldelta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Will Willis wrote: > When "big" features are announced with a release, undoubtedly someone in the > community will post slides or a write up on the new release, why you should > start using it in production tomorrow, yadda, yadda... given/when, > defined-or, and named captures are a few that come to mind, I think that was > back in 5.10, and there was certainly a lot to write around that time. > > I wasn't able to find any write ups online for the latest release, either > there were no newsworthy new features, or my google-foo is weak. I know > about perlXdelta.pod, that shows the delta between the last release of perl, > but is there a way to programmatically get a synopsis of new features > (and/or fixes) in perl-Y since perl-X? Specifically, I'm curious what great > new features I should be using that were introduced after 5.10 (not that I'm > even using all of those yet), but would like to learn how to fish for these > answers myself (if possible) rather than posting to a list :) 5.18: lexical subs 5.16: unicode symbols __SUB__ 5.14: package block { } \N{CHARNAME} /(?^i:)/ regex stringification /d, /l, /u or /a regex modifiers s///r now functional safe /(?{...})/ code blocks 5.12: package name version ... yada yada use 5.12.0 is now strict (via features) @INC reorganization, perl behind site and vendor -- Reini Urban http://cpanel.net/ http://www.perl-compiler.org/ From will.willis at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 18:57:44 2013 From: will.willis at gmail.com (Will Willis) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 20:57:44 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] aggregated perldelta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Reini! On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Reini Urban wrote: > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Will Willis wrote: > > When "big" features are announced with a release, undoubtedly someone in > the > > community will post slides or a write up on the new release, why you > should > > start using it in production tomorrow, yadda, yadda... given/when, > > defined-or, and named captures are a few that come to mind, I think that > was > > back in 5.10, and there was certainly a lot to write around that time. > > > > I wasn't able to find any write ups online for the latest release, either > > there were no newsworthy new features, or my google-foo is weak. I know > > about perlXdelta.pod, that shows the delta between the last release of > perl, > > but is there a way to programmatically get a synopsis of new features > > (and/or fixes) in perl-Y since perl-X? Specifically, I'm curious what > great > > new features I should be using that were introduced after 5.10 (not that > I'm > > even using all of those yet), but would like to learn how to fish for > these > > answers myself (if possible) rather than posting to a list :) > > 5.18: > lexical subs > > 5.16: > unicode symbols > __SUB__ > > 5.14: > package block { } > \N{CHARNAME} > /(?^i:)/ regex stringification > /d, /l, /u or /a regex modifiers > s///r now functional > safe /(?{...})/ code blocks > > 5.12: > package name version > ... yada yada > use 5.12.0 is now strict (via features) > @INC reorganization, perl behind site and vendor > > -- > Reini Urban > http://cpanel.net/ http://www.perl-compiler.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Houston mailing list > Houston at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston > Website: http://houston.pm.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toddr at cpanel.net Sat Feb 9 11:19:19 2013 From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 13:19:19 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Are you coming to YAPC? Message-ID: Austin Perl Mongers, Not to start a rivalry or anything, but Houston's beating you Austin-ites out by a long shot for planned attendance to YAPC so far. If you plan to go to YAPC, I encourage you to go to http://yapcna.org , Create an account and/or login, and register for YAPC. No payment is required to register. It's just a way of indicating you plan to come. You should also join the yapc at pm.org mailing list. In addition to finding out about what's happening at YAPC, it's a great way to communicate with fellow attendees before and during the conference. http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/yapc Cheers, Todd Rinaldo P.S. The database used for last year is not the same as this year, so if you've only been to YAPC 2012, you'll need to create a new account. From gwadej at anomaly.org Tue Feb 12 05:16:54 2013 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 07:16:54 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] February Meeting Message-ID: <20130212071654.168a5c7f@cygnus> This is just a quick reminder that the meeting this month is next Thursday (the 21st), not this Thursday (Valentine's Day). G. Wade -- If there's no solution, there's no problem. -- Rick Hoselton From rlharris at oplink.net Thu Feb 14 17:31:13 2013 From: rlharris at oplink.net (Russell L. Harris) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 01:31:13 +0000 Subject: [pm-h] speculation Message-ID: <20130215013113.GA6176@gospelbroadcasting.org> http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/does-your-copy-of-office-2013-die-with-your-computer-20130208-2e3a1.html %%% Many people long have suspected that the astronomical wealth of Bill Gate$ is the result of a contract in which Gate$, following the example of the legendary Doctor Faustus, sold his soul to the Devil. But increasingly there is speculation that perhaps the legal team of Gate$ managed surreptitiously to insert into the contract so-called "boiler-plate" by which the Devil himself was defrauded, receiving not absolute _title_ to the soul of Gate$, but, rather, merely a non-transferable _license_, the validity of which spans only the lifetime of the physical body of Gate$. However, such a speculation carries with it a seemingly-insurmountable difficulty, namely, the question of what is to be the eternal abode of Gate$, if not Hell? Certainly, there is no possibility that Gate$ shall enter into Heaven. And in view of the immeasurable havoc and perplexing evil wreaked upon Society by the Establishment-enforced monopolies of Micro$oft and Window$, not a few have suspected that Gate$ himself is nothing other than a physical incarnation of the Devil. %%% From estrabd at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 06:40:36 2013 From: estrabd at gmail.com (B. Estrade) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:40:36 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Perl "Many Core Engine" Message-ID: The author of this thing recently engaged the "Quantified Onion" mailing list*, and the results are pretty interesting. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/the-quantified-onion/2cSWXogt5Xs (thread-jacked, see starting in Feb). Here's the GC page, http://code.google.com/p/many-core-engine-perl/ and the CPAN page, https://metacpan.org/module/MARIOROY/MCE-1.403/lib/MCE.pod I have not fully digested all that it does, but it seems like a really nice option saturating the available cores on a machine without f**k'ing. Brett Related: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/the-quantified-onion http://blogs.perl.org/users/david_mertens/2012/07/the-quantified-onion-is-not-just-another-echo-chamber.html http://perl4science.github.com/ From toddr at cpanel.net Mon Feb 18 08:40:35 2013 From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:40:35 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Dr. Dobbs Perl Message-ID: <9FF40A48-174C-4445-9DDE-1273DCA5828B@cpanel.net> Stolen from the Toronto Perl Monger's Mailing list: This week's sermon is: http://www.drdobbs.com/open-source/why-i-use-perland-will-continue-to-do-so/240148364 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gwadej at anomaly.org Mon Feb 25 20:20:40 2013 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:20:40 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Ideas for March Meeting? Message-ID: <20130225222040.038d8254@cygnus> Our next meeting is on March 14 (about 2.5 weeks). Any suggestions or volunteers to present for that meeting? G. Wade -- Perl's payment curve coincides with its learning curve. -- GrandFather From csboyd07 at gmail.com Mon Feb 25 22:25:46 2013 From: csboyd07 at gmail.com (Charles Boyd) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:25:46 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Ideas for March Meeting? In-Reply-To: <20130225222040.038d8254@cygnus> References: <20130225222040.038d8254@cygnus> Message-ID: I could give a talk about the Perl interface to Pari/GP I've been working on, if anybody is interested. The code lives here: https://github.com/FreeMonad/GPP The main goals of this library are: (1) To make it easy to write a shell for the GP interpreter in perl [ link: https://github.com/FreeMonad/GPP/blob/master/bin/gpp.pl ] (2) To provide a way for Perl scripts to call native libpari functions, similar to the Math::Pari module but without handling tricky conversions between Perl and Pari/GP data structures or overloading Perl operators. [ link: https://github.com/FreeMonad/GPP/blob/master/examples/ellinit.pl ] These have already been implemented (for details, see the links), but I think there is a lot of room for improvement - so feedback and suggestions would be useful. One of the specific technical challenges is to solve the problem of having a reasonable build environment for a Perl module that derives functionality from a native C library which is simply a wrapper around a large and complex external library - which may or may not already be installed on the system (and also may or may not be handled by the operating system's package management system). My current solution is to simply assume the user has already compiled Pari/GP (>= 2.6.0) from source and that libpari and its header files were installed to the default locations on the file system. This works, but it is not a safe assumption. I gave a talk on this last month for Pari/GP developers at Institut de Math?matiques de Bordeaux: http://pari.math.u-bordeaux.fr/Events/PARI2013/ The previous talk was focused on how to use this Perl interface to do number theory. This time, I would be more interested to discuss the design and implementation details of how to glue a Perl module to a huge library like Pari/GP. - Charles On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:20 PM, G. Wade Johnson wrote: > Our next meeting is on March 14 (about 2.5 weeks). > > Any suggestions or volunteers to present for that meeting? > > G. Wade -- 2048D/E67424BF (GnuPG) From gwadej at anomaly.org Wed Feb 27 18:00:01 2013 From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:00:01 -0600 Subject: [pm-h] Ideas for March Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <20130225222040.038d8254@cygnus> Message-ID: <20130227200001.36ba8cb5@cygnus> Hi Charles, On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:25:46 -0600 Charles Boyd wrote: > I could give a talk about the Perl interface to Pari/GP I've been > working on, if anybody is interested. Sorry. I got distracted. If no one has a major complaint, I think that would be a great topic. Send me a title for the talk and I'll get it announced everywhere. G. Wade > The code lives here: https://github.com/FreeMonad/GPP > > The main goals of this library are: > > (1) To make it easy to write a shell for the GP interpreter in perl > > [ link: https://github.com/FreeMonad/GPP/blob/master/bin/gpp.pl ] > > (2) To provide a way for Perl scripts to call native libpari > functions, similar to the Math::Pari module but without handling > tricky conversions between Perl and Pari/GP data structures or > overloading Perl operators. > > [ link: > https://github.com/FreeMonad/GPP/blob/master/examples/ellinit.pl ] > > These have already been implemented (for details, see the links), but > I think there is a lot of room for improvement - so feedback and > suggestions would be useful. > > One of the specific technical challenges is to solve the problem of > having a reasonable build environment for a Perl module that derives > functionality from a native C library which is simply a wrapper around > a large and complex external library - which may or may not already be > installed on the system (and also may or may not be handled by the > operating system's package management system). > > My current solution is to simply assume the user has already compiled > Pari/GP (>= 2.6.0) from source and that libpari and its header files > were installed to the default locations on the file system. This > works, but it is not a safe assumption. > > I gave a talk on this last month for Pari/GP developers at Institut de > Math?matiques de Bordeaux: > http://pari.math.u-bordeaux.fr/Events/PARI2013/ > > The previous talk was focused on how to use this Perl interface to do > number theory. > > This time, I would be more interested to discuss the design and > implementation details of how to glue a Perl module to a huge library > like Pari/GP. > > - Charles > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:20 PM, G. Wade Johnson > wrote: > > Our next meeting is on March 14 (about 2.5 weeks). > > > > Any suggestions or volunteers to present for that meeting? > > > > G. Wade > -- There will always be things we wish to say in our programs that in all known languages can only be said poorly. -- Alan Perlis