From rlharris at oplink.net  Mon Aug  4 01:07:50 2008
From: rlharris at oplink.net (Russell L. Harris)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 03:07:50 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] newbie confusion: executing a perl script
Message-ID: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf>

At the URL:

    http://69.51.152.43/morse/#GUS-3

I discovered the nifty "KY8D Morse Code Perl Script", which has the
capability of converting any text -- even an entire book -- into Morse
code in a .WAV file, for subsequent conversion into mp3 or ogg vorbis
for use with a personal mp3 player.

(This is one way to circumvent the problem of a book for which the
only available audio edition has been read by someone with a voice you
find intolerable.  If you can find a machine-readable copy of the
book, you can create your own Morse edition.)

The first line of the script is:

    #!/usr/pkg/bin/perl

I am running Debian on an i386, so I used chmod to make the script
executable and I changed the first line of the script to read:

    #!/usr/bin/perl

which works for all the Perl scripts I have been using over the past
year.  But when I attempted to execute the script bash returned an
error message:

    $ ./gus_morse.pl --path ~/scratch/message.txt

    bash: ./gus_morse.pl: /usr/bin/perl^M: bad interpreter: No such
    file or directory

I then consulted the README file supplied by the author of the script,
and saw there the example invocation:

    $ perl gus_morse.pl --path message.txt

which worked.

Would someone kindly explain to me why the "perl ..." invocation
worked, whereas the "./..." invocation did not?

RLH

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Aug  4 05:16:49 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 07:16:49 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] newbie confusion: executing a perl script
In-Reply-To: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf>
References: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf>
Message-ID: <20080804071649.061d261f@sovvan>

Hello,

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 03:07:50 -0500
"Russell L. Harris" <rlharris at oplink.net> wrote:

> At the URL:
> 
>     http://69.51.152.43/morse/#GUS-3
> 
> I discovered the nifty "KY8D Morse Code Perl Script", which has the
> capability of converting any text -- even an entire book -- into Morse
> code in a .WAV file, for subsequent conversion into mp3 or ogg vorbis
> for use with a personal mp3 player.
> 
> (This is one way to circumvent the problem of a book for which the
> only available audio edition has been read by someone with a voice you
> find intolerable.  If you can find a machine-readable copy of the
> book, you can create your own Morse edition.)
> 
> The first line of the script is:
> 
>     #!/usr/pkg/bin/perl
> 
> I am running Debian on an i386, so I used chmod to make the script
> executable and I changed the first line of the script to read:
> 
>     #!/usr/bin/perl
> 
> which works for all the Perl scripts I have been using over the past
> year.  But when I attempted to execute the script bash returned an
> error message:
> 
>     $ ./gus_morse.pl --path ~/scratch/message.txt
> 
>     bash: ./gus_morse.pl: /usr/bin/perl^M: bad interpreter: No such
>     file or directory

The error message actually tells you exactly what you need to know. The
perl program it is trying to run is wrong, because it has a carriage
return in the name.

This is usually caused by trying to run a DOS/Windows formatted file on
some UNIX flavor.

Run dos2unix on the script. This will remove the unwanted characters.
If you don't have dos2unix (unlikely, but possible), you can use the
following perl one-liner:

  perl -i.bak -pe'tr/\r//d' script.pl

where 'script.pl' is the script you want to fix.

> I then consulted the README file supplied by the author of the script,
> and saw there the example invocation:
> 
>     $ perl gus_morse.pl --path message.txt
> 
> which worked.
> 
> Would someone kindly explain to me why the "perl ..." invocation
> worked, whereas the "./..." invocation did not?

Hope that helps,
G. Wade
-- 
If it doesn't have to be right, I can make it arbitrarily fast.
                                                    -- Rick Hoselton

From todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com  Mon Aug  4 08:28:44 2008
From: todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com (todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:28:44 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] August meeting topics
Message-ID: <OF213768B5.71D52B74-ON0525749B.0054F984@jpmchase.com>

Wade, 

I'm for continuing our Perl6 Testing contributions.

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org
[mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of
G. Wade Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:42 PM
To: houston at pm.org
Subject: [pm-h] August meeting topics


The date for the August meeting is approaching and we need to settle on
a topic. Some ideas that we could explore

1. Discuss progress on the rakudo/Perl 6 testing project that we
started last meeting.

2. Introduction to Parsing.

3. New modules or projects people are working on.

Anyone have opinions, suggestions, requests?

Do we want to consider a social meeting? We haven't had one of those in
a while.

G. Wade
-- 
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg.      -- Bjarne Stroustrup
_______________________________________________
Houston mailing list
Houston at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
Website: http://houston.pm.org/
Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
and it is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation
of any transaction. In the event you are receiving the offering
materials attached below related to your interest in hedge funds or
private equity, this communication may be intended as an offer or
solicitation for the purchase or sale of such fund(s).  All market
prices, data and other information are not warranted as to
completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect
those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates.

This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance
thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and
destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard
copy format. Thank you.
Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
disclosures relating to UK legal entities.

From rlharris at oplink.net  Mon Aug  4 08:43:51 2008
From: rlharris at oplink.net (Russell L. Harris)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:43:51 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] newbie confusion: executing a perl script
In-Reply-To: <20080804071649.061d261f@sovvan>
References: <20080804080750.GA3578@tmiaf> <20080804071649.061d261f@sovvan>
Message-ID: <20080804154351.GC3578@tmiaf>

* G. Wade Johnson <gwadej at anomaly.org> [080804 07:21]:
>> year.  But when I attempted to execute the script bash returned an
>> error message:
>> 
>>     $ ./gus_morse.pl --path ~/scratch/message.txt
>> 
>>     bash: ./gus_morse.pl: /usr/bin/perl^M: bad interpreter: No such
>>     file or directory
 
> The error message actually tells you exactly what you need to know. The
> perl program it is trying to run is wrong, because it has a carriage
> return in the name.
> 
> This is usually caused by trying to run a DOS/Windows formatted file on
> some UNIX flavor.
> 
> Run dos2unix on the script.

Thanks, Wade.  You solved the problem.

Upon encountering the error, the first thing I did was to search for
control-M using Emacs, and nothing was found; obviously I need to read
over the section of the Emacs manual which covers searching for
control characters.

I had good reason to believe that the author of the script was running
Linux, but I suppose that running dos2unix is a worthwhile precaution
for any script which is downloaded from the web.

A while back, a Perl script which I wrote appeared to be behaving
pathologically, until I discovered that the text files which I was
attempting to process (and, indeed, was processing with a great
measure of success) had been generated on a DO$/Window$ system.

Regards,

RLH


From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Aug  5 20:28:19 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 22:28:19 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
Message-ID: <20080805222819.0c4cedf9@sovvan>

If you haven't checked out the module Test::Group, it's definitely
worth a look. The feature I found most interesting was described in the
section of the docs labelled Reflexivity.

This allows you to easily build new test predicates that internally can
use all of the normal Test::More predicates, but only count as a single
test.

Pretty nice for testing complex objects.

G. Wade
-- 
The computer should be doing the hard work. That's what it's paid to do,
after all.                                             -- Larry Wall

From todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com  Wed Aug  6 09:24:17 2008
From: todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com (todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:24:17 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
Message-ID: <OF4B7E325C.36BB397A-ON0525749D.0058CBA4@jpmchase.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org 
> [mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org] 
> On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:28 PM
> To: houston at pm.org
> Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
> 
> 
> If you haven't checked out the module Test::Group, it's definitely
> worth a look. The feature I found most interesting was 
> described in the
> section of the docs labelled Reflexivity.
> 
> This allows you to easily build new test predicates that 
> internally can
> use all of the normal Test::More predicates, but only count 
> as a single
> test.
> 
> Pretty nice for testing complex objects.
> 
> G. Wade


I like it but it doesn't solve my largest problem, which is testing
failures on an object. I keep finding myself doing the following ALOT

1. Manufacture datastructure I expect to fail
2. call sub (sometimes with an eval around it)
3. Test ref type for return (possibly multiple if it's an array)
4. test result value(s)
5. test $@ for expected result
6. Clear $@

Makes a single test ugly, but I'm not sure if Test::group solves this
problem. Does anyone know of any modules that would fix this problem?
Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
and it is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation
of any transaction. In the event you are receiving the offering
materials attached below related to your interest in hedge funds or
private equity, this communication may be intended as an offer or
solicitation for the purchase or sale of such fund(s).  All market
prices, data and other information are not warranted as to
completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect
those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates.

This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance
thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and
destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard
copy format. Thank you.
Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
disclosures relating to UK legal entities.

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Aug  6 16:22:45 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:22:45 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
In-Reply-To: <OF4B7E325C.36BB397A-ON0525749D.0058CBA4@jpmchase.com>
References: <OF4B7E325C.36BB397A-ON0525749D.0058CBA4@jpmchase.com>
Message-ID: <20080806182245.4b700e6a@sovvan>

Test::Group might be able to help with some of this.

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:24:17 -0500
todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com wrote:

> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org 
> > [mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org] 
> > On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:28 PM
> > To: houston at pm.org
> > Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group
> > 
> > 
> > If you haven't checked out the module Test::Group, it's definitely
> > worth a look. The feature I found most interesting was 
> > described in the
> > section of the docs labelled Reflexivity.
> > 
> > This allows you to easily build new test predicates that 
> > internally can
> > use all of the normal Test::More predicates, but only count 
> > as a single
> > test.
> > 
> > Pretty nice for testing complex objects.
> > 
> > G. Wade
> 
> 
> I like it but it doesn't solve my largest problem, which is testing
> failures on an object. I keep finding myself doing the following ALOT
> 
> 1. Manufacture datastructure I expect to fail
> 2. call sub (sometimes with an eval around it)
> 3. Test ref type for return (possibly multiple if it's an array)
> 4. test result value(s)
> 5. test $@ for expected result
> 6. Clear $@

sub call_fails
{
   my $code = shift;
   my $return_type = shift;
   my $exception = shift;

   test 'call_fails' => sub {
	local $@;
	eval {
            my $ret = $code->();
	    isa_ok( $ret, $return_type );
        };
	is( $@, $exception ) if $@;
   };
}

call_fails( \&failing_sub, 'BadResult', 'The method failed' );

This counts as one test and does one of two tests.

G. Wade

> 
> Makes a single test ugly, but I'm not sure if Test::group solves this
> problem. Does anyone know of any modules that would fix this problem?
> Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
> and it is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
> or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation
> of any transaction. In the event you are receiving the offering
> materials attached below related to your interest in hedge funds or
> private equity, this communication may be intended as an offer or
> solicitation for the purchase or sale of such fund(s).  All market
> prices, data and other information are not warranted as to
> completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
> Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect
> those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates.
> 
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure
> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
> use of the information contained herein (including any reliance
> thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any
> attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
> that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
> opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
> is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
> Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
> or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
> transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and
> destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard
> copy format. Thank you.
> Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
> disclosures relating to UK legal entities.
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/


-- 
Make no decision out of fear.                      -- Bruce Sterling

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Aug  6 18:19:15 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 20:19:15 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Test::Group example
Message-ID: <20080806201915.02aa55e6@sovvan>

To give an idea of one way to use Test::Group, here's an example from a
module I just "finished". It would be used like this

quantity_ok( $q, 'a quantity',
      { value => 3.14, units => 'lb', str => '3.14 lb' }
);

Despite the fact that it does 5 sub-tests, it would still count as one
test.

See the code below:
-------------------------------------------
#
# Special test method that allows for specialized testing of Quantity
# objects. The arguments to this function are
#
# $q - Quantity object to test
# $name - name of the test
# $desc - description of the tests to run as a hashref
#
# The $desc hashref contains tells which individual subtests to run on
# the object. The defined subtests are:
#
# null - if set to the true value test is_null() returns true, defaults
#        to testing if it is false.
# value - the result of the value() method must match the value of this
#         parameter
# units - the result of the units() method must match the value of this
#	  parameter
# str - the results of stringify() direct interpolation of the object
#       must match the value of this parameter.
#
# In addition, the object is always tested if it is a Quantity
#
sub quantity_ok
{
    my $q = shift;
    my $name = shift;
    my $desc = shift;

    test $name => sub {
        isa_ok( $q, 'Weather::Bug::Quantity' );
        if( $desc->{null} )
        {
            ok( $q->is_null(), "is null Quantity" );
        }
        else
        {
            ok( !$q->is_null(), "is not null Quantity" );
        }
        if( exists $desc->{value} )
        {
            is( $q->value(), $desc->{value}, "value matches" );
        }
        if( exists $desc->{units} )
        {
            is( $q->units(), $desc->{units}, "units match" );
        }
        if( exists $desc->{str} )
        {
            is( $q->stringify(), $desc->{str}, "string form correct" );
            is( "$q", $desc->{str}, "string form correct, overload" );
        }
    };
}
---------------------------------------------

This is not a solution to all problems, but it does help clean up a
class of them I've been annoyed by.

G. Wade
-- 
As a software development model, Anarchy does not scale well.
                                                       -- Dave Welch

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Mon Aug 11 17:19:10 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:19:10 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] August Meeting
Message-ID: <20080811191910.33a541df@sovvan>

The August meeting is upon us.

We'll meet at 1111 Fannin as usual at 6pm. See the meeting page at
http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html for a map and directions.

As usual, we'll be in the lobby until around 6:20 and then go up to the
meeting room. Parking on the street is free after 6pm.

This month we will be continuing the work/discussion on the Perl 6 test
suite.

Hope to see you there.
G. Wade
-- 
There are trivial truths and there are great Truths. The opposite of a
trival truth is obviously false. The opposite of a great Truth is also
true.                                                  -- Neils Bohr

From todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com  Mon Aug 11 17:36:40 2008
From: todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com (todd.e.rinaldo at jpmorgan.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:36:40 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] August Meeting
Message-ID: <OF364059B5.74D50202-ON052574A3.00033450@jpmchase.com>

All if you plan to attend, please email the list, even if it's at the last
minute. Otherwise we will head upstairs early once we have a quarum.

Thanks,
Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org 
> [mailto:houston-bounces+todd.e.rinaldo=jpmorgan.com at pm.org] 
> On Behalf Of G. Wade Johnson
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:19 PM
> To: houston at pm.org
> Subject: [pm-h] August Meeting
> 
> 
> The August meeting is upon us.
> 
> We'll meet at 1111 Fannin as usual at 6pm. See the meeting page at
> http://houston.pm.org/meetings.html for a map and directions.
> 
> As usual, we'll be in the lobby until around 6:20 and then go 
> up to the
> meeting room. Parking on the street is free after 6pm.
> 
> This month we will be continuing the work/discussion on the 
> Perl 6 test
> suite.
> 
> Hope to see you there.
> G. Wade
> -- 
> There are trivial truths and there are great Truths. The opposite of a
> trival truth is obviously false. The opposite of a great Truth is also
> true.                                                  -- Neils Bohr
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
> 
Generally, this communication is for informational purposes only
and it is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation
of any transaction. In the event you are receiving the offering
materials attached below related to your interest in hedge funds or
private equity, this communication may be intended as an offer or
solicitation for the purchase or sale of such fund(s).  All market
prices, data and other information are not warranted as to
completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect
those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates.

This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance
thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that might affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase &
Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss
or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this
transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and
destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard
copy format. Thank you.
Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for
disclosures relating to UK legal entities.

From jvogt at houston.oilfield.slb.com  Tue Aug 12 12:47:45 2008
From: jvogt at houston.oilfield.slb.com (Jay Vogt)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:47:45 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Perl XML RPC server recommendation
Message-ID: <48A1E8E1.5060009@houston.oilfield.slb.com>

All,

Does anyone have experience with XML RPC who
can recommend which of the various offerings on
CPAN to go with? There is an XML-RPC and one
from Frontier.

Regards,

Jay Vogt

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Aug 26 05:27:06 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:27:06 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
Message-ID: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>

Important message on PerlBuzz about a bug on RedHat that causes massive
slowdown's in Perl.

http://perlbuzz.com/2008/08/red-hats-patch-slows-down-overloading-in-perl.html

G. Wade
-- 
It's easier to port a shell than a shell script.       -- Larry Wall

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Tue Aug 26 20:15:27 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:15:27 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, August 26
Message-ID: <20080826221527.2b6fdc77@sovvan>

New information from our friend Marsee at O'Reilly.

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:59:32 -0700
From: "Marsee Henon" <marsee at oreilly.com>

Hi there,

Speakers, UG leaders, or anyone else interested in improving your
presentations, let me send you our new book "slide:ology." 
Garr Reynolds (Presentation Zen) just wrote on his blog
<http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2008/08/slideology-my-favorite-presentation-book-of-all-time.html> 
"Nancy Duarte, the Principle of Duarte Design (the firm behind the
creation of Al Gore's Oscar-winning presentations), has published a
presentation book for the rest of us. It's called 'slide:ology: The Art
and Science of Creating Great Presentations.' 'slide:ology' is
practical, it's highly visual, and it's beautiful. I love this book."
Watch the book trailer here.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UI439bKA1Q>

Gabrielle Roth and Selena Deckelmann presented "Running a Successful
User Group" at OSCON 2008 in Portland this year. Here's their slide
show: <http://www.baconandtech.com/?p=16> They also put together a flyer
with suggestions on every aspect of running a user group. 
<http://www.baconandtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/ug-printed-material-v2.pdf>

Need a pass for Photoshop World in Las Vegas on Friday, September 5th
and Saturday, September 6th? I've got one I can send you.

We've got some great books coming out and we're looking for Amazon,
Slashdot, and oreilly.com reviews. If you're interested, new titles
include "Head First Ajax," "Head First Statistics," "Intellectual
Property and Open Source," "The Productive Programmer," "Website
Optimization," and "Programming .NET 3.5."

If you haven't had a chance to check them out, Deke McClelland's dekePod
videos are worth a watch or two. We've got plenty on the way so think 
about subscribing in iTunes by searching for dekePod or bookmarking our
dekePod page at: <http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/dekepod/>.

101 Photoshop Tips in Five Minutes
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/06/24/dekepod-101-photoshop-tips.html>

Metadata Forensics, What a Crock
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/07/09/dekepod-metadata-forensics.html>

Stealth 'Shop, The Virgin Histogram
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/07/23/dekepod-virgin-histogram.html>

Don't Fear the Lab Mode
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/08/06/dekepod-lab-mode.html>

Stretching a Photo in Illustrator
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/08/20/dekepod-stretching-photos-in-illustrator.html>

And thanks to everyone who stopped by the O'Reilly booth at OSCON. We
had a great time. Here are our photos from our T-shirt contest and the
conference.
<http://flickr.com/photos/oreillyugprogram/sets/72157606322136449/>

--Marsee
================================================================
O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
August 26, 2008
================================================================
***Put Up a Banner, Get a Free Book
We're looking for user groups to display our discount banners on their
web sites. If you send me your group's site with one or more banners,
I'll send you the O'Reilly book(s) of your choice. Choose from
the following list:

Customizable O'Reilly Book Widgets
<http://ug.oreilly.com/promote/bookwidgets.csp>

InsideRIA Banners
<http://ug.oreilly.com/promote/ria/>

35% off User Group Discount Banners
<http://ug.oreilly.com/promote/discount/>

35% off Digital Media User Group Banners
<http://ug.oreilly.com/promote/>

================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
August 26, 2008
================================================================
---------------------------------------------------------------
New Releases--Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts
----------------------------------------------------------------
Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books you
purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online
or by phone 800-998-9938.
<http://www.oreilly.com/store/>

Free ground shipping on orders of $29.95 or more.
For more details, go to:
<http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html>

Did you know you can request a free book or PDF to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
<http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>

Automotive SPICE in Practice (Rocky Nook)
ISBN 13: 9781933952291
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952291>

Building Embedded Linux Systems, Second Edition
ISBN 13: 9780596529680
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596529680/>

Canon EOS 40D (Rocky Nook)
ISBN 13: 9781933952338
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952338/>

Computer Orchestration Tips and Tricks (PC Publishing)
ISBN 13: 9781906005054
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781906005054/>

Digital Infrared Photography (Hard Cover) (Rocky Nook)
ISBN 13: 9781933952352
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952352/>

FBML Essentials
ISBN 13: 9780596519186
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596519186/>

FIRST LEGO League (No Starch)
ISBN 13: 9781593271855
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271855/>

Head First Ajax
ISBN 13: 9780596515782
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515782/>

Head First Statistics
ISBN 13: 9780596527587
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527587/>

Intellectual Property and Open Source
ISBN 13: 9780596517960
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596517960/>

iPhone Forensics: Rough Cuts Version
ISBN 13: 9780596153892
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596153892/>

iPhone: The Missing Manual, Second Edition
ISBN 13: 9780596521677
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521677/>

JavaScript: The Missing Manual
ISBN 13: 9780596515898
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515898/>

Learning ASP.NET 3.5, Second Edition
ISBN 13: 9780596518455
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518455/>

Learning the vi and Vim Editors, Seventh Edition
ISBN 13: 9780596529833
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596529833/>

Programming .NET 3.5
ISBN 13: 9780596527563
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527563/>

Propellerhead Reason 4 Tips and Tricks, Fourth Edition (PC Publishing)
ISBN 13: 9781906005078
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781906005078/>

Python for Unix and Linux System Administration
ISBN 13: 9780596515829
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515829/>

Refactoring SQL Applications
ISBN 13: 9780596514976
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514976/>

Scripted GUI Testing with Ruby (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
ISBN 13: 9781934356180
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356180/>

slide:ology
ISBN 13: 9780596522346
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/>

Statistics in a Nutshell
ISBN 13: 9780596510497
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596510497/>

Take Your Best Shot
ISBN 13: 9780596518257
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518257/>

The Canon EOS Digital Rebel XSi/450D Companion
ISBN 13: 9780596520861
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520861/>

The IDA Pro Book (No Starch)
ISBN 13: 9781593271787
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271787/>

The Productive Programmer
ISBN 13: 9780596519780
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596519780/>

Website Optimization
ISBN 13: 9780596515089
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515089/>


MAKE Magazine Subscriptions
The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you
subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--one plus four
more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this
great offer for UG Members: five volumes for the cost of four.
Subscribe at:
<http://www.makezine.com/go/ugsub>

Craft Magazine Subscriptions
The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you
subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--one plus
four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this
great offer for UG Members: five volumes for the cost of four.
Subscribe at:
<http://www.craftzine.com/go/craftug>

================================================
Upcoming Author Events
================================================
For more events, please see:
<http://events.oreilly.com/>


Jesse Liberty Presents a Webcast: Creating Skinnable Custom Controls in
Silverlight
Aug 27, 2008
In this live presentation Silverlight Geek Jesse Liberty (Programming
Silverlight--to be released in November 2008) will demonstrate various
aspects of Silverlight 2. Keep an eye on the website for more details in
the future.
<http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/WebCastEventDetails.aspx?EventID=1032382799&EventCategory=4&culture=en-US&CountryCode=US>

FlexCamp London 2008
Aug?28-28, 2008
Conway Hall - 25 Red Lion Square, London WC1R 4RL
London, UK
Flex Camp London 08 is a free, community-run event for everyone
interested in Adobe Flex. Author Marco Casario (AIR Cookbooks) will
present "SQLite in AIR with Flex."
<http://www.flexcamp.co.uk/>

Rick Sammon Presents at Photoshop World 2008
Sep 3-6, 2008
Las Vegas, NV
Join Rick Sammon (Face to Face) at Photoshop World 2008 as he gives
various presentations on digital photography.
<http://www.photoshopworld.com/schedule.html>

Lesa Snider King at Photoshop World
Sep 4-6, 2008
Las Vegas, NV
Lesa Snider King teaches two classes: "Express Photo Effects" (free on
the expo show floor) and "Graphic Secrets for Creative Pros: Photoshop
CS3 and beyond!" (in the paid productivity track). 
<http://www.photoshopworld.com/>

O'Reilly at PhotoShop World Las Vegas 2008
Sep 4-6, 2008
Mandalay Bay Convention Center
Las Vegas, NV
Come join the revolution with a FREE Expo Pass! Stop by the O'Reilly
booth (# 442) to meet our editors and authors, and to check out our
newest titles!
<http://www.photoshopworld.com/>

John Papa at VSLive! New York
Sep 7-10, 2008
NY Marriott at the Brooklyn Bridge
New York City, New York
John Papa (Data Services with Silverlight) is speaking at VSLive! New
York on the following topics: Building Effective Data Bound Applications
with WPF and Silverlight and ASP.NET Data Binding.
<http://vslive.com/2008/newyork/default.aspx>

Brian Peek at VSLive! New York
Sep 7-10, 2008
NY Marriott at the Brooklyn Bridge
New York City, New York
Brian Peek (Coding4Fun: 10 .NET Programming Projects for Wiimote,
YouTube, World of Warcraft, and More) will be speaking at VSLive! New
York on the following topics: Creating a Simple 2D Game Using XNA Game
Studio to Run on a PC, Xbox 360 or Microsoft Zune and Interfacing
External Hardware Using Managed Code.
<http://vslive.com/2008/newyork/default.aspx>

Harold Davis Hosts a Weekend Workshop on Night Photography
Sep 12-14, 2008
Point Reyes, CA
Author Harold Davis (Practical Artistry: Light & Exposure for Digital
Photographers) will be hosting a weekend workshop on night photography
in Point Reyes, CA. Keep checking the Point Reyes Field Seminars website
for registration information.
<http://www.digitalfieldguide.com/workshops.php>

John Smart at the Java Emerging Technologies Conference 2008
Sep 17, 2008
AUT Conference Centre
Auckland, New Zealand
John Smart (Java Power Tools) will be talking about easyb at the Java
Emerging Technologies Conference 2008 discussing the basic principles of
Behavior Driven Development, and look at how it builds on and differs
from "traditional" Test-Driven Development. It then moves on to look at
easyb, a very cool DSL-based behavior driven development framework for
Java that uses Groovy to let you pretty much write tests that document
themselves.
<http://jet.javacom.co.nz/index.php/Main_Page>

Lesa Snider King at MinistryCOM
Sep 19-20, 2008
Oklahoma City, OK
Lesa Snider King talks about "Graphic Secrets for Creative Pros" at the
National Church Communications Conference. In this Photoshop power hour,
you'll glean time saving tips for creating super tough selections. Learn
fast and non-destructive ways to create today's most popular photo
effects, including silhouettes, partial color, duotones, gorgeous
grayscales, creative vector photo frames, filtered edges, selective blur
effects, vignettes and more. You'll also discover how to retouch people
like a pro!
<http://ministrycom.org/mc08-graphic-secrets-for-creative-pros/>

Sean Duggan Presents a Weekend Seminar: "Creative Camera Raw Workflow"
Sep 20-21, 2008
Berkeley, CA
Sean Duggan's (The Creative Digital Darkroom) weekend seminar will be a
combination of exploring a clear workflow for digital asset management
(DAM) and an in-depth exploration of Adobe Camera Raw 4.2 in Photoshop
CS3. Adobe Bridge CS3, Photoshop Lightroom and iView Media Pro will also
be discussed in these explorations.
http://digitalstop.com/workshops/#36>

Lesa Snider King at the PowerPoint Live User Conference
Sep 21, 2008
San Diego, CA
Lesa Snider King teaches "Graphic Secrets for Presenters"--learn how to
turn the images you have into the imagery you need. 
<http://www.betterppt.com/powerpoint_live/schedule.htm

Nitesh Dhanjani at Florida Government Technology Conference
Sep 24-24, 2008
Leon County Civic Center
Tallahassee, FL
Author Nitesh Dhanjani ("Network Security Tools") presents "Security
Implications of Emerging Technologies: Social Networking,
Virtualization, and Cloud Computing"
<http://www.floridagtc.com/conferenceProgram08.cfm>

Robert Stackowiak Leads Session at Oracle OpenWorld
Sep 25, 2008
Marriott Salon 09
San Francisco, CA
Robert Stackowiak (Oracle Essentials and Oracle Application Server 10g
Essentials) will be leading a session entitled "Session Title: Oracle
Business Intelligence Strategy for the Data Warehouse-Enabled
Enterprise" at Oracle OpenWorld. This session is for the Enterprise
Performance Management/Business Intelligence Track.
<http://www.oracle.com/openworld/2008/index.html>

John Smart at the Victorian Java User Group
Sep 25, 2008
Sun, McKillop/Dunlop Room, Level 7, 476 St. Kilda Road
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Fresh from the Java Emerging Technologies Conference 2008 (JET 2008),
John Smart (Java Power Tools) will be giving a talk on Behavior Driven
Development (BDD) in Java with easyb, a new and very hip behavior driven
development framework for Java. This talk will go through the basic
principles of Behavior Driven Development, and look at how it builds on
and differs from "traditional" Test-Driven Development. It then moves on
to look at easyb, a very cool DSL-based behavior driven development
framework for Java that uses Groovy to let you pretty much write tests
that document themselves.
<https://victorianjug.dev.java.net/2008/September/September.html>

Lesa Snider King and Derrick Story at the Macintosh Computer Expo
Sep 27, 2008
Santa Rosa, CA
Join Lesa Snider King and Derrick Story for the return of MCE, NCMUG's
annual fundraising event. Lesa covers "How to Shoot Like a Pro" and "The
Skinny on Photoshop Elements 6" and Derrick will be teaching "Ten Things
You Need to Know About iPhoto" and "Aperture or Lightroom...Which One Is
Best for Me?" Stop by the O'Reilly booth to meet the authors and
purchase our latest Mac and digital media titles.
<http://www.ncmug.org/mce.html>


================================================
Conferences and Special Events
================================================
Learn How to Obtain iPhone Forensic Data--September 16-17, 2008
Happening in Burlington, MA, this valuable workshop led by Jonathan
Zdziarski, the original iPhone hacker, will guide you through a highly
specialized forensic examination of the iPhone, iPhone 3G, and iPod
Touch. Register now to learn how to recover, process and remove
sensitive data stored on these devices.
<http://devworkshops.oreilly.com/iphoneforensics/learn-how-to-obtain-iphone-for.html>


Registration for RailsConf Europe 2008, Berlin, Germany--
September 2-4  2008
The European developer community showed itself to be deeply interested
in Rails at RailsConf Europe 2007, and the co-presenters of that event,
Ruby Central and O'Reilly Media, are coming back to do it again.
RailsConf Europe 2008, happening September 2-4 2008 in Berlin, will
feature presentations, keynotes, and tutorials by experts from the full
spectrum of Rails techniques and practices. Seasoned Rails practitioners
and newcomers alike will find a program honed to their particular
interests and needs.

Use code "re08usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off
the registration price.

To register for the conference, go to:
<https://en.oreilly.com/railseurope2008/public/register>


The Call for Proposal phase is open for ETech 2009
The theme for ETech 2009 is Living, Reinvented: The Tech of Abundance
and Constraints. We want to hear from inventors, entrepreneurs,
visionaries, sustainability designers, technologists, municipal rock
stars, resource strategists, coders and hackers who are reinventing how
we can live more sustainably every day. Proposals are being accepted
through September 17.
<http://en.oreilly.com/et2009/public/cfp/37>


Register for the Web 2.0 Expo New York, New York, NY--
September 16-19, 2008
From start-ups to enterprises, Web 2.0 Expo New York is the event for
the designers, developers, entrepreneurs, VCs, marketing professionals,
product managers and business strategists building businesses on the
web. Seven conference tracks, a vibrant expo hall and plenty of
networking events cover business strategy, web design, user experience,
SEM, tagging, developer hacks, community building, AJAX, Ruby, web
operations, user-generated content, and more. Use discount code 
webny08mc29 to get $100 off or a free expo pass.

To register for the conference, go to:
<http://web2expo.com/ny>


Tickets on Sale for Maker Faire Austin--October 18th and 19th, 2008
Travis County Event Center and Fairground
Maker Faire is a two-day, family-friendly event that celebrates the
Do-It-Yourself (DIY) mindset. It's for creative, resourceful people of
all ages and backgrounds who like to tinker and love to make things.

Maker Faire Austin Tickets for sale now at
<http://www.makerfairetickets.com/>

================================================
O'Reilly School of Technology
================================================
New Java Programming Course
We want you to be the first to know about the latest course release from
the O'Reilly School of Technology: Java Programming 1: Introduction to
Java and the Eclipse Development Environment! We are especially excited
about this course, because it is the first course to utilize Ellipse,
our brand-new Learning Sandbox built on the Eclipse open-source IDE.

This is the first course in our upcoming Java Programming Certificate
Series. ?The Java Programming 2 and 3 courses will be released very 
soon?as they are?in their final editing phases.
<http://www.oreillyschool.com/courses/java1/?CMP=BAC-ostug>


O'Reilly School of Technology Courses: UG Members Receive
a 30% Discount
O'Reilly School of Technology has opened its virtual doors with
educational offerings and certifications for IT students looking to
further their careers or to launch one. As an O'Reilly User Group
member, you save on all the courses in the following University of
Illinois Certificate Series:

-PHP/SQL Programming
-Linux/Unix System Administration
-Web Programming
-Open Source Programming
-.NET Programming
-Client-Side Web Programming featuring AJAX

To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" good for a 30% discount,
in Step #2 of the enrollment process. Each course comes with a free
O'Reilly book and a 7-day money-back guarantee.

Register online:
<http://www.oreillyschool.com/?CMP=BAC-ostug>

(This discount is not combinable with other offers.)

================================================
News From O'Reilly & Beyond
================================================
---------------------
News
---------------------
Expert Help ? A Video Training Guide on Java Featured on Safari
Learn from the leading training experts with Safari's extensive
collection of over 170 full video tutorials, on topics such as Java,
PHP, Ruby on Rails, Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, Flash, and more. Hit the
ground running with this powerful Java SE 6 Instructional Video Course.
To view snippets of video available on Safari, sign up for a free 10-day
trial.
<http://safari.oreilly.com?cid=200808-oreillyportal-usergroupnewsletter-JavaVideo>


Tim O'Reilly featured on Sky Radio coming to an Airlines near you
Tim discusses how Safari Books Online is helping thousands of
technologists every day. The interview will run for the month of
September.
<http://safaribooksonline.com/media/audio/OREILLY-TIM.wma>


O'Reilly is hosting another fun, free Ignite Boston event
The fourth Ignite Boston will be on Thursday, September 11, from 6 to
10pm at the Hooley House, one block from Faneuil Hall in Boston, MA.
<http://ignite.oreilly.com/2008/08/the-fourth-ignite-boston-will.html>

Other Ignite events coming up include Ignite Denver on September 10 and
Igite NYC on September 15. For more information, complete schedule,  or
to start your own community run Ignite, go to:
<http://ignite.oreilly.com/>


David Pogue's Hot iPhone Tips
David Pogue returns with a thoroughly updated edition of "iPhone: The
Missing Manual." And here David reveals his best, up-to-the-nanosecond
iPhone tricks. "The beauty of the new iPhone 3G is that you don't need
one," explains David. "Almost all of the juicy stuff actually comes with
the iPhone 2.0 software and the online App Store, both of which run
perfectly well on the old iPhone as well."
<http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/08/david-pogues-iphone-3g-tips.html>


Vincent Versace on Photography and Creativity
Vincent Versace, noted photographer, author, and photography instructor,
sits down with Derrick Story to discuss the some of the larger
philosophical questions that inform the photographic creative process
during this video interview from Photoshop World Orlando.
<http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/08/13/vincent-versace-psw.html>


Forbes Puts the Spotlight on Dale Dougherty and Tim O'Reilly
"If the do-it-yourself trend is a revolution, then Dale Dougherty and
Tim O'Reilly are its Tom Paines," writes reporter Elizabeth Corcoran in
a recent Forbes.com story, Making Future Headlines. 
<http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/08/forbes-puts-the-spotlight-on-d.html>


Announcing the Adobe AIR Cookbook Cook-off (US Only)
Think you can solve common Adobe AIR related coding problems? Then you
qualify for the Adobe AIR Cookbook Cook-off contest sponsored by
O'Reilly Media to celebrate the upcoming publication of the Adobe AIR
Cookbook <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522506/>. During this
contest, we invite you to submit your best solutions to common AIR
coding challenges for a chance to win some great prizes.

For details on how to enter the contest, go to:
<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/logged_in/mkoch_aircookoff.html>


What developers should know about IP
Author Van Lindberg is both software engineer and practicing attorney.
His new book, "Intellectual Property and Open Source" tackles the
slippery subject of intellectual property. In this interview, Van
explains why intellectual property law is so important to developers?any
developers?and shares his most important tips for developers starting
out in the world of open source.
<http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/08/what-developers-need-to-know-a-1.html>

How to Write Your Own Facebook Applications
Mary Rotman recently had a chance to ask Jesse Stay, author of "FBML
Essentials" a few questions about his book and just why it's so
important right now.
<http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/08/how-to-write-your-own-facebook.html>


DIY O'Reilly Gear
Create Your Own Calendar, Shirt, Notebook, Poster...In just three easy
steps you can create one of a kind calendars, greeting cards, keychains,
luggage tags, magnets, mousepads, mugs, notebooks, postcards, posters,
shirts, hoodies, and stickers adorned with your favorite O'Reilly
animals.
<http://www.qoop.com/photobooks/photofront/pub_store.php?pub_name=oreilly>

For more news, go to:
<http://news.oreilly.com/>

---------------------
Blogs
-------------------
Interview with David Heinemeier Hansson: Rails Culture, Scaling
Basecamp, and Building Successful Companies
<http://news.oreilly.com/2008/08/interview-with-david-heinemeie.html>

Derrick Story in Beijing for the Olympics
<http://blogs.oreilly.com/digitalmedia/2008/08/a-week-of-images-from-beijing.html>

Head First Ajax Sample chapter: Manipulating the DOM
<http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfajax/hfaj_ch7_sample.pdf>

Head First Statistics Sample Chapter: Calculating Probabilities
<http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfstats/>

The Road to Programming is Sometimes Paved with Web Pages
<http://www.oreillynet.com/headfirst/blog/2008/07/the_road_to_programming_is_som.html#more>

Why We're Failing in Math and Science
<http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/08/why-were-failing-in-math-and-science.html>

Why Corporates Hate Perl
<http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html>

The Mind of Damian Conway: Science, Computer Science, the Future of
Perl 6, and Advice for Today's Aspiring Programmers
<http://fyi.oreilly.com/2008/08/the-mind-of-damian-conway-scie.html>

Audio: Lawrence Lessig on Congressional Reform and Internet
for Everyone
<http://news.oreilly.com/2008/08/lessig-changecongressorg-and-i.html>

Doug Marschke Talks about his new book titled "JUNOS Enterprise
Routing: A Practical Guide to JUNOS Software and Enterprise
Certification." <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihKWw7q4VlU>

Mac vs PC: Does it matter anymore?
<http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/08/mac-vs-pc-does-it-matter-anymo.html>

For more blogs, go to:
<http://news.oreilly.com/>

Until next time--

Marsee Henon


================================================================
O'Reilly
1005 Gravenstein Highway North
Sebastopol, CA ? 95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/
Follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/OReillyMedia

You are receiving this email because you are a User Group?
contact with O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop?
receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly,?
send an email to marsee at oreilly.com
================================================================


-- 
Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.pm.org/mailman/private/houston/attachments/20080826/d5643cdf/attachment-0001.html>

From cblanc at dionysius.com  Wed Aug 27 10:46:49 2008
From: cblanc at dionysius.com (Chris Blanc)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:46:49 -0700
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
Message-ID: <20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>

Hi,

I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy statement 
of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam a little:

http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html

I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in 
progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a trend 
to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making machines 
do what you want them to do.

I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it 
has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a 
fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same 
"typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert can 
make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their inexpertise (or, 
God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they blame the tool.

</rant>

Chris

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 07:27:06AM -0500, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
> Important message on PerlBuzz about a bug on RedHat that causes massive
> slowdown's in Perl.
> 
> http://perlbuzz.com/2008/08/red-hats-patch-slows-down-overloading-in-perl.html
> 
> G. Wade
> -- 
> It's easier to port a shell than a shell script.       -- Larry Wall
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/

-- 

http://www.dionysius.com/
Internet intoxication.

http://www.chrisblanc.org/blog/
You know: stuff; insightful +2

From toddr at null.net  Wed Aug 27 14:52:13 2008
From: toddr at null.net (Todd Rinaldo)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:52:13 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
	<20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
Message-ID: <748c25c20808271452x3e2fff47x47772083cc732936@mail.gmail.com>

Good/bad code can be written in any language. Personally I'm waiting
on the day when Java hits crappy code critical mass and they start to
consider it "legacy". Seems like all the outsourcing should have
achieved this goal by now. What I wonder is what the lag is for
managers to figure this out.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Chris Blanc <cblanc at dionysius.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy statement
> of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam a little:
>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html
>
> I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in
> progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a trend
> to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making machines
> do what you want them to do.
>
> I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it
> has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a
> fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same
> "typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert can
> make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their inexpertise (or,
> God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they blame the tool.
>
> </rant>
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 07:27:06AM -0500, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
>> Important message on PerlBuzz about a bug on RedHat that causes massive
>> slowdown's in Perl.
>>
>> http://perlbuzz.com/2008/08/red-hats-patch-slows-down-overloading-in-perl.html
>>
>> G. Wade
>> --
>> It's easier to port a shell than a shell script.       -- Larry Wall
>> _______________________________________________
>> Houston mailing list
>> Houston at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
>> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>
> --
>
> http://www.dionysius.com/
> Internet intoxication.
>
> http://www.chrisblanc.org/blog/
> You know: stuff; insightful +2
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/
>



-- 
Todd Rinaldo
toddr at null.net

From gwadej at anomaly.org  Wed Aug 27 16:46:44 2008
From: gwadej at anomaly.org (G. Wade Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:46:44 -0500
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
	<20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
Message-ID: <20080827184644.2f164d79@sovvan>

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:46:49 -0700
Chris Blanc <cblanc at dionysius.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy
> statement of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam
> a little:
> 
> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html

I saw this same thing in another company with a different language. In
our case, the company went through a take over and the new management
was convinced that all of the problems were due to the language in
which we did the development.

That had nothing to do with the problems, of course. But no one would
listen.

> I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in 
> progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a
> trend to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making
> machines do what you want them to do.

At one place that I worked, I was called upon to troubleshoot and fix a
"piece of crap Perl server" that had suddenly broken. When I tried to
find out any information about the person who wrote it or any possible
documentation, I was told that no one had touched it in about 6-7 years.

I pointed out that a server that ran every day for 6-7 years without
any maintenance could not reasonably be called a "piece of crap". That
caused a few raised eyebrows and thoughtful looks.

While I will admit that this program was certainly not a thing of
beauty, it turned out the problem was easy to fix. They had moved it to
a much faster machine that ended up violating some assumptions made in
the code. A couple days of work and it was running again without
problems.

I wonder how long that little piece of Perl will run without further
maintenance in a shop that was at least somewhat Perl-hostile.

> I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it 
> has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a 
> fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same 
> "typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert
> can make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their
> inexpertise (or, God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they
> blame the tool.

G. Wade
-- 
They made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor.
                            -- G'Kar - "A Late Delivery from Avalon"

From cblanc at dionysius.com  Thu Aug 28 07:39:13 2008
From: cblanc at dionysius.com (Chris Blanc)
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:39:13 -0700
Subject: [pm-h] RedHat patch causes slodowns on Perl
In-Reply-To: <20080827184644.2f164d79@sovvan>
References: <20080826072706.0fdc8d1b@sovvan>
	<20080827174649.GC6819@dionysius.com>
	<20080827184644.2f164d79@sovvan>
Message-ID: <20080828143913.GB15028@dionysius.com>

Wade,

I think that's part of the problem: much of the web runs on Perl code, 
but it works, so it rarely makes headlines.

Echoing other comments here, I think it's more important to have a 
general purpose language be widely known by people informed enough to 
write specialized code, that to drown in specialized languages that at 
the end of the day are more often "trend" than "innovation."

Chris

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:44PM -0500, G. Wade Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:46:49 -0700
> Chris Blanc <cblanc at dionysius.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I don't know if I've posted to this list before (insert pithy
> > statement of personal disorganization) but this article made me steam
> > a little:
> > 
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/08/why_corporates_hate_perl.html
> 
> I saw this same thing in another company with a different language. In
> our case, the company went through a take over and the new management
> was convinced that all of the problems were due to the language in
> which we did the development.
> 
> That had nothing to do with the problems, of course. But no one would
> listen.
> 
> > I think everything in it is true, and I've seen this situation in 
> > progress at past jobs. People like to blame the tool, and find a
> > trend to purchase instead, than get down to the hard work of making
> > machines do what you want them to do.
> 
> At one place that I worked, I was called upon to troubleshoot and fix a
> "piece of crap Perl server" that had suddenly broken. When I tried to
> find out any information about the person who wrote it or any possible
> documentation, I was told that no one had touched it in about 6-7 years.
> 
> I pointed out that a server that ran every day for 6-7 years without
> any maintenance could not reasonably be called a "piece of crap". That
> caused a few raised eyebrows and thoughtful looks.
> 
> While I will admit that this program was certainly not a thing of
> beauty, it turned out the problem was easy to fix. They had moved it to
> a much faster machine that ended up violating some assumptions made in
> the code. A couple days of work and it was running again without
> problems.
> 
> I wonder how long that little piece of Perl will run without further
> maintenance in a shop that was at least somewhat Perl-hostile.
> 
> > I'm no Perl expert, but I've applied it in enough situations where it 
> > has done wonders to question the wisdom of anyone who says it's not a 
> > fit solution. I do think it's a victim of its own success; the same 
> > "typing error" style that makes it sometimes efficient for an expert
> > can make it anathema to others, and rather than admit their
> > inexpertise (or, God forbid, crack a book and figure it out) they
> > blame the tool.
> 
> G. Wade
> -- 
> They made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor.
>                             -- G'Kar - "A Late Delivery from Avalon"
> _______________________________________________
> Houston mailing list
> Houston at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/houston
> Website: http://houston.pm.org/

-- 

http://www.dionysius.com/
Internet intoxication.

http://www.chrisblanc.org/blog/
You know: stuff; insightful +2