From matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com Wed Aug 1 08:25:00 2001 From: matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com (matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I take it all back ... Message-ID: <200108011326.f71DQLr09552@gocho.pm.org> Hey guys, remember the brilliant white-paper I wrote on dotNet, the one where I did a great deal of research to try to figure out exactly what dotNet "really" is? I think I was wrong. It might be more acurate to call dotNet an evolutionary change in Visual Studio that allows M$ to shift it's revenue model toward subscriptions. (I do still think it's going to involve XML/RPC, SOAP, and allow distributed component development/deployment, which was the focus of my article; but ...) I think this article puts a lot more weight behind one of my "CON"s: 'Microsoft's Marketing Spin is out of control. It took a lot of research to boil down exactly what dotNet is. In fact, the author of this article has over a dozen pages of text that use phrases like "enabling next-generation, cross-platform compatible distributed web services across the enterprise." Microsoft has a history of promising to "radically change the way you do business" and delivering J++.' Check out Joel Spolsky's take on things ... http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$133 Matt H. From joelmeulenberg at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 00:11:37 2001 From: joelmeulenberg at yahoo.com (Joel Meulenberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I take it all back ... In-Reply-To: <200108011326.f71DQLr09552@gocho.pm.org> Message-ID: <20010802051137.90012.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com> > Check out Joel Spolsky's take on things ... > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$133 You were right Matt - Microsoft's marketing machine is out of control on .NET. And I really like Joel Spolsky's ideas/rants (and not just cuz of the shared moniker thing). Thanks for the pointer. I especially enjoyed the response that Spolsky got from a Microsoft insider working on Passport. (Read it here: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$137 ) Lately, I've really been appreciating the articles and exchanges at www.dbdebunk.com ("Where database matters are set straight."). Chris Date, one of the main contributors at www.dbdebunk.com, has been demonstrating for years how vendors keep screwing up the relational model of data. There's fundamental and important stuff that vendors and everyone could/should be working on and thinking about, but vendors/etc. keep rushing headlong into adding new features that they think will generate revenue. Evidently, "adherence to fundamentals" or "based on a solid, coherent model" isn't something they feel they can sell. When I think about all the vacuous articles/information I get from most of the trade media, I'm struck by the feeling that people like Joel Spolsky and Chris Date are like muffled voices in a cacophony of media/vendor trumpets. Thanks for taking the time to amplify some of the good stuff. +Joel ===== Perl mongers do it more than one way. (TMTOWTDI) http://grand-rapids.pm.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From steve at bbdltd.com Mon Aug 6 16:17:40 2001 From: steve at bbdltd.com (Steve Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I should have mentioned Perl... In-Reply-To: <20010802051137.90012.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm now semi-famous! I'm part of a COMDEX promo (see the link for "web professional") called "Faces of COMDEX". You had to fill out a form ("my turn ons are long walks, gigabit ethernet, and fiber to the home..."), submit some photos, get weeded out through a couple of selection levels, sign a model release form, and have a puurrdy face (apparently the loosened up on that rule). http://www.key3media.com/comdex/fall2001/attendee/faces/index.html I'll sign autographs at the next(!) perl mongers meeting ;-) sj From joelmeulenberg at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 17:58:22 2001 From: joelmeulenberg at yahoo.com (Joel Meulenberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I should have mentioned Perl... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010806225822.79247.qmail@web13003.mail.yahoo.com> > sign a model release form, and have a puurrdy face (apparently the > loosened up on that rule). Well, your mug shot was certainly more genuine than that Rico Suave guy on the "Small Business" link. : ) > I'll sign autographs at the next(!) perl mongers meeting ;-) OK, will you be signing them "Zeke Ansers"? Make mine "To '42'". +Joel ===== Perl mongers do it more than one way. (TMTOWTDI) http://grand-rapids.pm.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From steve at bbdltd.com Mon Aug 6 19:33:31 2001 From: steve at bbdltd.com (Steve Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I should have mentioned Perl... Message-ID: <20010807003331424.AAA459@buffalo3.bkwestmich.com@bkwestmich.com> Actually, I guess I did mention perl. If you look really close, in the background of my picture you can see a Perl "How To" book on the shelf behind me :-) sj ============================================================ From: Joel Meulenberg Date: 2001/08/06 Mon PM 06:58:22 EDT To: Steve Johnson , grand-rapids-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Subject: Re: I should have mentioned Perl... > sign a model release form, and have a puurrdy face (apparently the > loosened up on that rule). Well, your mug shot was certainly more genuine than that Rico Suave guy on the "Small Business" link. : ) > I'll sign autographs at the next(!) perl mongers meeting ;-) OK, will you be signing them "Zeke Ansers"? Make mine "To '42'". +Joel ===== Perl mongers do it more than one way. (TMTOWTDI) http://grand-rapids.pm.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ============================================================ From matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com Tue Aug 7 07:30:33 2001 From: matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com (matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out Message-ID: <200108071232.f77CW2C29894@gocho.pm.org> In his COMDEX interview, Steve Johnson was asked: >What business/technology issues keep you up at night? And he Answered: >What is the "next big thing", like the Internet was, that will change >the way my clients work and play? Wireless? A killer app? >A network appliance? This reminds me: I think I finally have it figured out. For years, I've been working on being 'buzzword compliant.' I've worked on projects in DHTML before DHTML was cool; XML before XML was cool; took a risk on a dotCom (oops), studied Rapid Application Development, n-tier applications (and componentized development) - earned a graduate certificate in distributing computing before Peer-To-Peer was cool. I finally decided to draw the line at wireless. WAP and WML are _annoying_ technologies that won't work. The Verzion Wireless Web is ALL hype and no substance. Show me someone that actually claims Verizon Wireless is bottom-line useful, and I'll show you a liar. After a While, I began to realize that this stuff ain't rocket science. It's actually pretty easy. Anyone with reasonable experience in C++ can learn Java, and vice versa.(*) Anyone who knows Perl can figure out Visual Basic. Anyone who knows english can figure out HTML, and anyone who knows HTML can figure out XML. Yet recruiters, universities, and employers all seem to harp about this employment 'crisis.' They want employees who will 'hit the ground running', yet they aren't willing to pay for it. I'm talking about the companies that insist on 3-5 years of SQL Server 7.0 Experience; ("Oh, you used SQL server 6.5? No good enough!") the ones who insist on 5-7 years of alphabet soup, yet aren't willing to pay a premium. Who has 5+ years of C++, Java, EJB, JCL, VAX/VMS, VB, C, AND COBOL in a Health-Care Environment? I'm beginning to believe that by creating an artificial employment shortage, colleges get more $, recruiters can charge higher fees, and employers can lobby government for more H-1B visas. Plus, of course, trade magazines sell more copies. (What do you want to read about at Barnes & Nobles: Dr. Dobbs telling you how to do your job better, or VBPJ telling you about the latest buzzword that'll help you get your next job? ...) Mentoring and Training employees for a career of service is out. Getting the exact right skillset for the current project is in. I'm no genius, but I think i've begun to figure out the game. Anyone else have an idea on how to stop the buzzword merry-go-round? (That should be the title for this collumn "Stop the career buzzword merry-go-round, I just want to do my job and do it well ...") regards, Matt H. (*) - Assuming s/he understands pointer mathmatics. To: grand-rapids-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org cc: (bcc: Matthew Heusser/C-I-G) Subject: I should have mentioned Perl... I'm now semi-famous! I'm part of a COMDEX promo (see the link for "web professional") called "Faces of COMDEX". You had to fill out a form ("my turn ons are long walks, gigabit ethernet, and fiber to the home..."), submit some photos, get weeded out through a couple of selection levels, sign a model release form, and have a puurrdy face (apparently the loosened up on that rule). http://www.key3media.com/comdex/fall2001/attendee/faces/index.html I'll sign autographs at the next(!) perl mongers meeting ;-) sj From sml at zfx.com Tue Aug 7 07:58:18 2001 From: sml at zfx.com (Steve Lane) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out References: <200108071232.f77CW2C29894@gocho.pm.org> Message-ID: <3B6FE5EA.EE2790B5@zfx.com> matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com wrote: > For years, I've been working on being 'buzzword compliant.' > > I've worked on projects in DHTML before DHTML was cool; > XML before XML was cool; took a risk on a dotCom (oops), > studied Rapid Application Development, n-tier applications > (and componentized development) - earned a graduate > certificate in distributing computing before Peer-To-Peer > was cool. [...] > I'm no genius, but I think i've begun to figure out the game. Anyone else > have an idea on how to stop the buzzword merry-go-round? (That should > be the title for this collumn "Stop the career buzzword merry-go-round, I > just want to do my job and do it well ...") it looks like a self-imposed obsession to me. just stop all this effort on "working on being 'buzzword compliant'", and you'll stop your "merry-go-round". it's really that simple. > I finally decided to draw the line at wireless. WAP and WML are > _annoying_ technologies that won't work. The Verzion Wireless > Web is ALL hype and no substance. Show me someone that > actually claims Verizon Wireless is bottom-line useful, and I'll > show you a liar. ok. Verizon Wireless is bottom-line useful. i've gotten paid a reasonable amount of money for developing a few small apps for Verizons over the last few months. the clients love the apps, and this is translating into more work. how exactly does this make me a liar? -- Steve Lane From matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com Tue Aug 7 08:07:29 2001 From: matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com (matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out Message-ID: <200108071308.f77D8wC30149@gocho.pm.org> >it looks like a self-imposed obsession to me. >just stop all this effort on "working on being >'buzzword compliant'", and you'll stop your >"merry-go-round". it's really that simple. My friend, when my dotCom failed and I walked into the recruiters office, you should have seen the look on her face when she saw my resume. Being BuzzWord Compliant certainly has it's advantages. >ok. Verizon Wireless is bottom-line useful. i've gotten >paid a reasonable amount of money for developing a few >small apps for Verizons over the last few months. I was speaking about end users (Verizon Wireless for Residential - Try to write email or buy a book on one of those phones. Good luck.) Still, for business, I'll bite - how do your apps effect the bottom line of that company? Perhaps I owe you an apology. You're not supposed to take my rants seriously .. geez. I guess I forgot a smiley face or something ... :-) regards, Matt H. From matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com Tue Aug 7 08:34:37 2001 From: matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com (matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: Or I'll put it another way ... Message-ID: <200108071335.f77DZoC30461@gocho.pm.org> If a small business has 10 employees that use the wireless web for collaboration/data storage ... Let's say they are a pest inspection company. They do an inspection report on a PDA (that's separate from the phone, but we'll assume), obtain a digital signature, and upload the results to the a server via the verizon phone. They can also get emails about changes in route/appointments via email, and not interrupt customers during a visit. For 10 employees to reasonably use verizon wireless, that's a tab of about $2,600/month, plus they'd have to pay for application development to make that work. Even with economy of scale, where it's a chain & the corporate HQ pays for the app dev cost, the monthly fees are still prohibitive. (My figures came from Joel S. at http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$148) Comments? Matt H. From sml at zfx.com Tue Aug 7 08:37:51 2001 From: sml at zfx.com (Steve Lane) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out References: <200108071308.JAA07976@ns.zfx.com> Message-ID: <3B6FEF2F.A7B1A340@zfx.com> matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com wrote: > >it looks like a self-imposed obsession to me. > >just stop all this effort on "working on being > >'buzzword compliant'", and you'll stop your > >"merry-go-round". it's really that simple. > > My friend, when my dotCom failed and I walked into > the recruiters office, you should have seen the look on > her face when she saw my resume. Being BuzzWord > Compliant certainly has it's advantages. agreed; it's easier to get a quick job if you have many buzzwords on your resume. but your question was "Anyone else have an idea on how to stop the buzzword merry-go-round?", and i gave you a way to do that, at least for yourself. speculating: it sounds like you want the benefits of buzzwords without the drawbacks. correct? > >ok. Verizon Wireless is bottom-line useful. i've gotten > >paid a reasonable amount of money for developing a few > >small apps for Verizons over the last few months. > > I was speaking about end users (Verizon Wireless for > Residential - Try to write email or buy a book on one > of those phones. Good luck.) yes, these tasks are difficult if not nonsensical on a Verizon. but there are many much less complicated tasks that can be done easily for and with a Verizon, and in my admittedly brief experience designing for one, it seems that making apps for such tasks is much easier and cheaper than any alternative might be. i don't think of Verizons as less-powerful or more-awkward laptops. i think of them as more-powerful celphones, or more-powerful walkie-talkies. > Still, for business, I'll bite - > how do your apps effect the bottom line of that company? i don't know exactly; it's none of my business. i only know that the clients are very happy, and that the applications' success is leading to more work. > Perhaps I owe you an apology. You're not supposed > to take my rants seriously .. geez. I guess I forgot a smiley > face or something ... :-) nah. i always take ideas and statements seriously. :) analysis is how we learn, and we can't do good analysis without taking things seriously. -- Steve Lane From sml at zfx.com Tue Aug 7 08:57:15 2001 From: sml at zfx.com (Steve Lane) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: Or I'll put it another way ... References: <200108071335.JAA09073@ns.zfx.com> Message-ID: <3B6FF3BB.BF3567F2@zfx.com> matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com wrote: > If a small business has 10 employees that use the wireless > web for collaboration/data storage ... > > Let's say they are a pest inspection company. They do an inspection > report on a PDA (that's separate from the phone, but we'll assume), obtain > a digital signature, and upload the results to the a server via the verizon > phone. They can also get emails about changes in route/appointments > via email, and not interrupt customers during a visit. a very fair example; it's very similar to the apps i've done, and the usage patterns of those apps. > For 10 employees to reasonably use verizon wireless, that's a tab of > about $2,600/month, plus they'd have to pay for application development > to make that work. Even with economy of scale, where it's a chain & the > corporate HQ pays for the app dev cost, the monthly fees are still prohibitive. > (My figures came from Joel S. at > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$148) i've read the article. Joel's figure of $284/month doesn't "feel" right for a business that can pay for bulk usage for its employees. i don't know exactly how much my clients are paying for their usage. a wild guess would be $100/month, but that may even be too high. your point is well-taken, though. if the cost of the thing exceeds its value, it won't be successful. the Motorola Startec that Joel used is awkward at best, unsuitable for the web at worst. i've used it extensively while developing an app, and recommended to a client that they ditch them and get the Kyoceras instead. if i was forced to use a Startec daily, and had to write a column on the device or wireless web in general, that column would probably have much more vitriol than Joel's does. :) the major advantage of the Kyocera for me is that it can make real form elements, so you can design a useful application that doesn't require -any- typing. and there seems to be plenty of need for such applications out there. finally, application development for these things is cheap! you've got Perl and a webserver and a database, and that's all you need. the apps themselves that i've done are all very simple; they may take a day max to build from start to finish. and you don't even need a graphic designer :). -- Steve Lane From matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com Tue Aug 7 09:23:26 2001 From: matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com (matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out Message-ID: <200108071424.f77EOhC30872@gocho.pm.org> >>how do your apps effect the bottom line of that company? >> >i don't know exactly; it's none of my business. Okay, how can Verizon Wireless apps positively effect the bottom line of _any_ company? Can someone give me an 1st world example? (I _can_ think of examples that work in the 3rd world, where physical phones & lines are scarce, but that's a whole different conversation ...) Matt H. From steve at bbdltd.com Tue Aug 7 09:43:08 2001 From: steve at bbdltd.com (Steve Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: More personal horn honking... Message-ID: The "Steve Johnson Media Madness" machine continues to pump out self-promotional drivel to the perl list. Just found out I'm one of 20 contest finalists for the Embedded Linux Journal embedded linux contest. This really DOES relate to perl as I included it as part of the proposal. Here's the contest background: http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/magazine/issue03/4604/ The important snippet (the reason to be in the contest, other than having a good excuse for playing with embedded linux): "After you develop them, we will look at your results and pick one grand prize winner and two runners up. The grand prize winner will receive an all-expense paid trip to Costa Rica. The runners up will each receive a Lego Mindstorms package consisting of the Lego Mindstorms Robotics Invention System, Mindstorms Vision Command, The Unofficial Guide to Lego Mindstorms Robots and the Lego Mindstorms Ultimate Accessory Set. In addition, all 20 finalists will receive priceless fame, as we will publish articles about the various projects in ELJ." I'd pay anything to get priceless fame! As one of the finalists, I get a free NIC system to develop on. Here's the announcement of the finalists: http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/advertising/press/c2.finalists.php Here's the summary of my proposal: SNOT: Secure Network Orifice Tester, by Steve Johnson SNOT will analyze network traffic to detect intrusion attempts and internal network weaknesses. Hook the NIC to power and the network, boot up and determine if your network is safe. I'm a little surprised they selected this one as I thought my other submission for a "family friendly filter" was better. Other than being kind of fun/sneaky/hacker like (and the acronym for the name), I'm not sure why they liked this one. I'm guessing my hack-a-nic site helped get me in: http://www.geocities.com/bozolovesya2000 Never underestimate the value of a self-promotional technical website! sj From steve at bbdltd.com Tue Aug 7 09:50:24 2001 From: steve at bbdltd.com (Steve Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out In-Reply-To: <200108071424.f77EOhC30872@gocho.pm.org> Message-ID: >>>how do your apps effect the bottom line of that company? >Okay, how can Verizon Wireless apps positively effect the >bottom line of _any_ company? Never trust a manager/leader/boss that only sees the bottom line. As in "we don't need to give our customers free bug fixes. Bug fixes don't add to the bottom line--upgrades do." Quality, high-speed, information exchange can be priceless. Besides, almost every cost (revenue) justification I've ever seen (or written) has been BS (OK, let's call it a guess) when it came to predicting returns. It ALWAYS comes down to this; do the users feel better about what they do and is it pretty pain free to give it to them? sj From matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com Tue Aug 7 09:59:52 2001 From: matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com (matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out Message-ID: <200108071501.f77F1DC31229@gocho.pm.org> Mr. Poling wrote: >They could do all that with a pad and >paper but it won't look as sexy or be as easy. Would they gain over $100/month in business because it was so "Cool"? To be charitable we'll subtract the cost of a regular cell phone, the paper, and the pads, and we're down to $70/month ... Or why not just ask the client if they have a web connection and check on it via the real web? I would think that would be more valuable, because then in the future, the client could check even when Joe Salesman isn't around, and would have more confidence. Hmm ... doesn't UPS do that? And Mr. Johnson wrote: >Quality, high-speed, information exchange can be priceless. I agree, the ad with the kid buying stocks in the middle of red square with his voice & pda were cool. 24/7 access to data is appealing, but my price on a 8x4 Character Screen is much less than what the ISP's are charging. Good comments, though; I'm not a believer yet, but I'm closer ... Matt H. From joelmeulenberg at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 00:16:07 2001 From: joelmeulenberg at yahoo.com (Joel Meulenberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: I think I finally have it figured out In-Reply-To: <200108071232.f77CW2C29894@gocho.pm.org> Message-ID: <20010808051607.70578.qmail@web13001.mail.yahoo.com> > I'm no genius, but I think i've begun to figure out the game. Anyone > else have an idea on how to stop the buzzword merry-go-round? Part of the problem is that vendors often have a financial motivation to keep the out-with-the-old-in-with-the-new merry-go-round (accelerated obsolescence) turning as fast as they can. As you mentioned, I suppose educational institutions, recruiters, etc. benefit from such churn too. This is sorta related to my mini-rant the other day about vendors rushing headlong to implement whatever features, often inane, they think will generate revenue, give them a lock-in advantage (barriers to customer exit), etc., rather than focusing on solid fundamentals, a good underlying model, etc. On the other hand, can we really blame the vendors? After all, it's the customers who are "buying it" (in more ways than one). So to have a sensible merry-go-round, I guess we need to have sensible, thinking consumers. We need people to have good BS detectors. We need people who can cut through all the fluffy words and superficial stuff and grok the heart of things. For example, we need business software consumers who (I'm probably exhibiting a bias or something here) are more interested in understanding a product's data model than seeing the demo or reading the feature list from the glossy brochure. I suppose the same thing goes for hiring practices. If the people doing the hiring are "buzzword matchers" or are impressed by "buzzword compliance", then job hunters will cater to those filters by hopping on the buzzword merry-go-round. I'm willing to speculate that the type of people likely to gobble up the vendor fluff du jour are the same type who are prone to hire by buzzword compliance. It's a vicious cycle of behavior that can only be broken by increased education, thinking, and open communication - kind of like when you (Matt) took time to find a candle in the dark (Joel Spolsky) and shared the light with all of us on this list. +Joel ===== Perl mongers do it more than one way. (TMTOWTDI) http://grand-rapids.pm.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From steve at bbdltd.com Thu Aug 9 12:21:19 2001 From: steve at bbdltd.com (Steve Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: FYI re: Wireless and Perl Message-ID: >From CNET Web Building: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Get wireless with Perl Serving wireless applications can be very straightforward for an experienced CGI scripter. James Scheinblum shows you how to build a dynamic WAP application, control device caching, and adapt WAP into a Mason-based site. http://one.digital.cnet.com/cgi-bin1/flo?y=hCOx0K44r0Go0uOK0AJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/grand-rapids-pm-list/attachments/20010809/6dbcfff3/attachment.htm From matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com Fri Aug 31 06:33:44 2001 From: matthew_heusser at mcgraw-hill.com (matthew_heusser@mcgraw-hill.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:15 2004 Subject: Link of the day Message-ID: <200108310636.f7V6acU15492@gocho.pm.org> Check out today (Aug 31st, 2001s) User Friendly: http://www.userfriendly.org/ Matt H.