From marty+dublin-pm at kasei.com Thu Jul 1 19:45:18 2004 From: marty+dublin-pm at kasei.com (Marty Pauley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open Message-ID: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> YAPC::Europe registration opened a few days ago. http://belfast.yapc.org/register/ We've also made a call for Lightning Talks http://www.justanotherperlhacker.org/cgi-local/lightning/submit.pl?conference=yapceu2004 and sponsorship http://belfast.yapc.org/sponsors/ Have fun! -- Marty From Tim.Bunce at pobox.com Fri Jul 2 04:29:38 2004 From: Tim.Bunce at pobox.com (Tim Bunce) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open In-Reply-To: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> References: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20040702092938.GA87992@dansat.data-plan.com> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:45:18AM +0100, Marty Pauley wrote: > YAPC::Europe registration opened a few days ago. > http://belfast.yapc.org/register/ Doesn't work for me using Mozilla 1.6 (yes, I know it's old but that's what I'm using at the moment). When I click into the Name field the text cursor appears but then immediately disappears again. (Similar story for the T-Shirt Size drop down. It drops down but won't stay down. I can select a size if I do it in one click-n-drag but there's little point if I can't enter a name :) I'll try from my laptop later. Tim. > We've also made a call for Lightning Talks > http://www.justanotherperlhacker.org/cgi-local/lightning/submit.pl?conference=yapceu2004 > > and sponsorship http://belfast.yapc.org/sponsors/ From doc at redbrick.dcu.ie Fri Jul 2 04:38:18 2004 From: doc at redbrick.dcu.ie (Dave O Connor) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open In-Reply-To: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> References: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20040702093818.GA22095@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Marty Pauley said on Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:45:18AM +0100: > YAPC::Europe registration opened a few days ago. > http://belfast.yapc.org/register/ Anyone going along to this? Apologies for the deadness lately, as one or two might know, I've recently switched jobs, and am going to be rushed, busy, and out of the country (in that order) until mid-august. So, if anyone's going along to this, let me or the list know, and we can arrange a posse :) - DoC From psinnottie at aol.com Fri Jul 2 04:46:54 2004 From: psinnottie at aol.com (Peter Sinnott) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open In-Reply-To: <20040702092938.GA87992@dansat.data-plan.com> References: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> <20040702092938.GA87992@dansat.data-plan.com> Message-ID: <20040702094654.GA21256@migo.ie.office.aol.com> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:29:38AM +0100, Tim Bunce wrote: > On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:45:18AM +0100, Marty Pauley wrote: > > YAPC::Europe registration opened a few days ago. > > http://belfast.yapc.org/register/ > > Doesn't work for me using Mozilla 1.6 (yes, I know it's old but > that's what I'm using at the moment). > > When I click into the Name field the text cursor appears but then > immediately disappears again. > > (Similar story for the T-Shirt Size drop down. It drops down but > won't stay down. I can select a size if I do it in one click-n-drag > but there's little point if I can't enter a name :) > If I dont release the mouse button when I put focus on the name field I'm able to enter text. Kinda strange. -- We have committed to authoritatively build seven-habits-conforming services to allow us to assertively create timely meta-services to set us apart from the competition From John.Mcnamara at snamprogetti.eni.it Fri Jul 2 06:44:17 2004 From: John.Mcnamara at snamprogetti.eni.it (Mcnamara John) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open Message-ID: <14DEDFCCB554B04CBA517637B61D781F408305@spsv00r6.snamprogettirf.res.prirf> > From: Dave O Connor > So, if anyone's going along to this, let me or > the list know, and we can arrange a posse :) I will be going. I'm due to give a talk on "Perl and Excel". I'm also giving it in Pisa on the 19th of this month for the Italian Perl Workshop, in case anyone else is going to that. :-) John. -- # Sum the numbers in the first column of a file perl -lpe '${}}+=+${_}}{${_}+=+${}}' file *************************E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY FOOTER********************** This message may contain confidential information and must not be copied, disclosed or used by anybody other than the intended recipient. If you have received this message in error, please notify us writing to postmaster@snamprogetti.eni.it and delete the message and any copies of it. Thank you for your assistance. From marty+dublin-pm at kasei.com Sun Jul 4 17:37:57 2004 From: marty+dublin-pm at kasei.com (Marty Pauley) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open In-Reply-To: <20040702092938.GA87992@dansat.data-plan.com> References: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> <20040702092938.GA87992@dansat.data-plan.com> Message-ID: <20040704223757.GI17320@soto.kasei.com> On Fri Jul 2 10:29:38 2004, Tim Bunce wrote: > > Doesn't work for me using Mozilla 1.6 (yes, I know it's old but > that's what I'm using at the moment). > > When I click into the Name field the text cursor appears but then > immediately disappears again. It's fixed now. -- Marty From daveb at esat.net Wed Jul 7 10:02:06 2004 From: daveb at esat.net (Dave Burke) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open In-Reply-To: Message from Dave O Connor of "Fri, 02 Jul 2004 10:38:18 BST." <20040702093818.GA22095@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> References: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> <20040702093818.GA22095@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Message-ID: Dave O Connor wrote: > >Marty Pauley said on Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:45:18AM +0100: >> YAPC::Europe registration opened a few days ago. >> http://belfast.yapc.org/register/ > >Anyone going along to this? Yup, definitely interested in going. Is rare that such a well know conference occurs practically on our doorsteps so will be heading to belfast for it. Dave From doc at redbrick.dcu.ie Wed Jul 7 10:05:51 2004 From: doc at redbrick.dcu.ie (Dave O Connor) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] YAPC::Europe registration is open In-Reply-To: References: <20040702004518.GA17320@soto.kasei.com> <20040702093818.GA22095@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Message-ID: <20040707150551.GA31669@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Dave Burke said on Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 04:02:06PM +0100: > > > Dave O Connor wrote: > > > >Marty Pauley said on Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:45:18AM +0100: > >> YAPC::Europe registration opened a few days ago. > >> http://belfast.yapc.org/register/ > > > >Anyone going along to this? > > Yup, definitely interested in going. Is rare that such a well know conference > occurs practically on our doorsteps so will be heading to belfast for it. > Ditto. So long as holiday days can be procured :) On an unrelated note, for those who use Orkut, there is now a 'Dublin Perl Mongers' community for people to join. - DoC From doc at redbrick.dcu.ie Sun Jul 11 15:24:33 2004 From: doc at redbrick.dcu.ie (Dave O Connor) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] Dublin.pm Somethingly News - 11 July 2004 Message-ID: <20040711202433.GA13612@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Hi, Couple of things to get updated on. As can be evidenced by our website, we've now got official O'Reilly User group membership. This involves 20% off O'Reilly titles when purchased direct from O'Reilly (drop me a mail), The occasional review book for a lucky (or masochistic) group member to review, and assorted goodies and bits 'n' bobs (the first gobbet of which arrived in the post not so long ago). Dublin.pm may also be featured in an upcoming edition of computerscope. If your office gets Scope, keep an eye out for this, more on this as I get word from them. YAPC::Europe is creeping ever stealthier toward us: It's From 15th-17th Septemberr in Belfast, and registration is reasonable for a techie conference, at a mere 65 queenmoneys. I know I've heard from a few people making the trip, and I also hope to be there. Note that they are now accepting proposals for lightning talks. If you've got a cool feature, module, algorithm, or anything else you think would be cool to present, feel free to do so, it'd be dead cool to get some Dublin.pm involved, considering our proximity :). Check out http://belfast.yapc.org/ for more details and registration. I know it's been a long time coming, but I'm hoping to get a technical meeting of Dublin.pm organised for late august or very early september. The reason for my tardiness is that I'll be OOTC (out of the country!) from mid-july to mid-august. What I need (since I'll be around online about as much as I am at home) is to organise a venue, and some speakers. If anybody feels they can provide a central venue, even a meeting room in their office, even if there's a fee involved, please get back to me. Access to a projector would also be good. Also, if you have a subject you'd like to give a short presentation on, a cool perl project you need hands and eyes to look at, or anything related to perl you'd like to speak about to the membership, please do let me know. I'm personally intending to give a short talk on "Creating Well-Behaved Windows services with Win32::Daemon". Something along those lines is a good example of a talk to be given. I've also got some cool O'Reilly stickers, postcards, bookmarks, and laminated perl debugger cheat sheets to get rid of. As always, please don't hesitate to use the list, the IRC channel (#dublin-pm on irc.linux.ie) or mail me directly with any questions, gripes, suggestions, and general stuff. All the best, - DoC From secmail333-perl at yahoo.com Fri Jul 23 13:08:03 2004 From: secmail333-perl at yahoo.com (secmail333-perl@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] hello Message-ID: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Just a quick hello to say that I hope the Dublin PM does really well. Im new to perl and hoping to pick it up. From doc at redbrick.dcu.ie Fri Jul 23 13:12:58 2004 From: doc at redbrick.dcu.ie (Dave O Connor) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] hello In-Reply-To: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040723181258.GA5078@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> secmail333-perl@yahoo.com said on Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:08:03AM -0700: > Just a quick hello to say that I hope the Dublin PM > does really well. Im new to perl and hoping to pick it up. Ta very much. Feel free to mail the list with any questions you come up with. God knows it's quiet enough, we need any traffic we can get :) - DoC From kehoea at parhasard.net Fri Jul 23 14:15:55 2004 From: kehoea at parhasard.net (Aidan Kehoe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] hello In-Reply-To: <20040723181258.GA5078@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> References: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> <20040723181258.GA5078@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Message-ID: <16641.25579.36514.915243@ns5.nestdesign.com> Ar an tr?? l? is fiche de m? I?il, scr?obh Dave O Connor: > Ta very much. Feel free to mail the list with any questions you come up with. > God knows it's quiet enough, we need any traffic we can get :) Okay, here's something; use DBI; [... set up a connection, store the handle in $dbh ...] my $good_row_id = 12345; my $sh = $dbh->prepare_cached('SELECT fieldname FROM tablename WHERE row_identifier = ? '); my $certain_value = $sbh->selectall_arrayref->($sh, # [1] undef, $good_row_id); if (defined $certain_value && defined $certain_value->[0]->[0]) { $certain_value = $certain_value->[0]->[0]; } else { $certain_value = 'default value'; } Why did line [1] even compile? What does it mean, given that it did? "Call the result of selectall_arrayref with no arguments, and pass $sh, undef, and $good_row_id as _its_ argument list?" Selectall_arrayref returns a reference to an array, which, Jesus, should refuse to be called as a function. We're not assembler. Nor even buffer-overflow-inclined C. But, even more mad, looking back over the four months that major brain fart was running code, how in God's name did it sometimes Do The Right Thing? Because it did; looking back through the records for those four months, there's no other explanation for them than that it did--$certain_value ended up as the right, non 'default value' string perhaps one time in five that the code ran. Was there random reading of values off some conceptual stack? Can I turn on something stronger than -W to catch this shit in the future? Bye, - Aidan -- The cow, if it were a metaphysician, would argue: 'Everything in my own desires and hopes and fears has reference to myself; hence by induction I conclude that everything in the universe has reference to myself. This noisy train, therefore, intends to do me either good or evil. I cannot suppose that it intends to do me good, since it comes in such a terrifying form, and therefore, as a prudent cow, I shall endeavour to escape from it.' (Russell) From fergal at esatclear.ie Fri Jul 23 17:59:18 2004 From: fergal at esatclear.ie (Fergal Daly) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] hello In-Reply-To: <16641.25579.36514.915243@ns5.nestdesign.com> References: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> <20040723181258.GA5078@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> <16641.25579.36514.915243@ns5.nestdesign.com> Message-ID: <20040723225918.GA4119@dyn.fergaldaly.com> On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 08:15:55PM +0100, Aidan Kehoe wrote: > my $certain_value = $sbh->selectall_arrayref->($sh, # [1] > undef, $good_row_id); > if (defined $certain_value && defined $certain_value->[0]->[0]) { > $certain_value = $certain_value->[0]->[0]; > } else { > $certain_value = 'default value'; > } > > Why did line [1] even compile? What does it mean, given that it did? "Call > the result of selectall_arrayref with no arguments, and pass $sh, undef, and > $good_row_id as _its_ argument list?" Selectall_arrayref returns a reference > to an array, which, Jesus, should refuse to be called as a function. We're > not assembler. Nor even buffer-overflow-inclined C. It compiled because Perl is a dynamic language and Perl does not know in advance that selectall_arrayref will not be returning a subroutine reference. It's perfectly valid code for suitable values of $sbh. > But, even more mad, looking back over the four months that major brain fart > was running code, how in God's name did it sometimes Do The Right Thing? > Because it did; looking back through the records for those four months, > there's no other explanation for them than that it did--$certain_value ended > up as the right, non 'default value' string perhaps one time in five that > the code ran. Was there random reading of values off some conceptual stack? That code should have died every time with an error like "Not a CODE reference at blah blah". Have you used eval anywhere in your code? That is the only reason I can think of that the problem hasn't shown up sooner. If it was executing inside an eval and you weren't checking $@ after the eval then that could hide the fact that your code was dying. > Can I turn on something stronger than -W to catch this shit in the future? Beyond rewriting it all in a strongly-typed language like Haskell (or a badly-typed language like Java) there is nothing you can do, F From doc at redbrick.dcu.ie Fri Jul 23 18:08:16 2004 From: doc at redbrick.dcu.ie (Dave O Connor) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] hello In-Reply-To: <20040723225918.GA4119@dyn.fergaldaly.com> References: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> <20040723181258.GA5078@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> <16641.25579.36514.915243@ns5.nestdesign.com> <20040723225918.GA4119@dyn.fergaldaly.com> Message-ID: <20040723230816.GA28339@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Fergal Daly said on Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:59:18PM +0100: > > Can I turn on something stronger than -W to catch this shit in the future? > > Beyond rewriting it all in a strongly-typed language like Haskell (or a > badly-typed language like Java) there is nothing you can do, > 'use diagnostics' occasionally points out that you might be doing something unintentionally dumb, but I find it overannoying for production code. I'd definitely turn it on while developing, though. As for why this was working 1 in 5 times, was it running under mod_perl, and cacheing this scalar (i.e. this scalar is assigned elsewhere sometimes, and just happens to have the correct value after this happens to it?). - DoC From kehoea at parhasard.net Sat Jul 24 08:30:47 2004 From: kehoea at parhasard.net (Aidan Kehoe) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] hello In-Reply-To: <20040723225918.GA4119@dyn.fergaldaly.com> References: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> <20040723181258.GA5078@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> <16641.25579.36514.915243@ns5.nestdesign.com> <20040723225918.GA4119@dyn.fergaldaly.com> <20040723230816.GA28339@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> Message-ID: <16642.25735.274039.547938@ns5.nestdesign.com> Ar an tr?? l? is fiche de m? I?il, scr?obh Fergal Daly: > It compiled because Perl is a dynamic language and Perl does not know in > advance that selectall_arrayref will not be returning a subroutine > reference. It's perfectly valid code for suitable values of $sbh. Fine, dynamic typing makes my life better, I hadn't realised that the arrow operator takes an array as its right-hand operand when you use it to dereference a subroutine reference. > That code should have died every time with an error like "Not a CODE > reference at blah blah". I don't have the stderr logs for most of the time it was running, but the logs I do have show it dying, most of the time, inside selectall_arrayref because it hadn't received the right number of arguments. > Have you used eval anywhere in your code? That is the only reason I can > think of that the problem hasn't shown up sooner. If it was executing inside > an eval and you weren't checking $@ after the eval then that could hide the > fact that your code was dying. The approach we take to keeping this process alive is to have any code that uses its services check if it's running, and then either signal it that new data is available, or launch it, at which point it checks for new data. So the process dying isn't something that causes the system to be down for hours. (Thankfully, because this code path was relatively rarely exercised, and keeping the system alive is more important and urgent than the need to fix a comparatively small failure in a rare case.) We weren't using eval. Nor mod_perl. (Tangent; I don't anticipate ever choosing mod_perl on purpose in the future; what advantages it has over PHP are hugely outweighed, for me, by the generally crazy programming style you have to adopt and the acrobatics I had to go through to get it installed and running within the strictures of particular machine's apt database.) It could, _possibly_ be the case that an earlier version without the bug was running for some of those four months, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Eh. Anyway, cool, I learned something, score one for the list. Thanks, all. -- The cow, if it were a metaphysician, would argue: 'Everything in my own desires and hopes and fears has reference to myself; hence by induction I conclude that everything in the universe has reference to myself. This noisy train, therefore, intends to do me either good or evil. I cannot suppose that it intends to do me good, since it comes in such a terrifying form, and therefore, as a prudent cow, I shall endeavour to escape from it.' (Russell) From fergal at esatclear.ie Sat Jul 24 11:36:40 2004 From: fergal at esatclear.ie (Fergal Daly) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:29:58 2004 Subject: [Dub-pm] hello In-Reply-To: <16642.25735.274039.547938@ns5.nestdesign.com> References: <20040723180804.81293.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> <20040723181258.GA5078@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> <16641.25579.36514.915243@ns5.nestdesign.com> <20040723225918.GA4119@dyn.fergaldaly.com> <20040723230816.GA28339@carbon.redbrick.dcu.ie> <16642.25735.274039.547938@ns5.nestdesign.com> Message-ID: <20040724163640.GA5719@dyn.fergaldaly.com> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 02:30:47PM +0100, Aidan Kehoe wrote: > > Ar an tr???? l?? is fiche de m?? I??il, scr??obh Fergal Daly: > > > It compiled because Perl is a dynamic language and Perl does not know in > > advance that selectall_arrayref will not be returning a subroutine > > reference. It's perfectly valid code for suitable values of $sbh. > > Fine, dynamic typing makes my life better, I hadn't realised that the arrow > operator takes an array as its right-hand operand when you use it to > dereference a subroutine reference. $a->($b, $c) is just a nicer way of writing &{$a}($b, $c) but given how uncommon it is, I think I'd prefer it was a syntax error. I've been bitten more than once by exactly the same type of problem as you. I think with Perl 6 and the effort to ensure the maximum value from the minimum amount of code, there'll be very few strings aren't a valid Perl program! F