From clmf8 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 6 11:59:30 2004 From: clmf8 at yahoo.com (Sam Feltus) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question Message-ID: <20040406165930.55561.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll. I was wanting to tinker with ModPerl on a local machine. Was thinking of getting RedHat 9.0, since hosting company is a RedHat shop. I have only really used SuSe 8, so am spoiled with a nice GUI to install packages for me, so I can remain Happily Lazy and Ignorant of the CLI install process whenever possible. Choices RedHat 9.0 RedHat Fedora Core 1 SuSe Pro 9 Upgrade Something else ya'll suggest Obviously all are so dirt cheap price is irrelevant. I really like SuSe due to it doing alot of dirty work for me. Sam the Perl Gardener --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/classiccity-pm/attachments/20040406/88dae371/attachment.htm From darrell at golliher.net Tue Apr 6 12:07:53 2004 From: darrell at golliher.net (Darrell Golliher) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question In-Reply-To: <20040406165930.55561.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040406165930.55561.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040406170753.GA23496@golliher.net> On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 09:59:30AM -0700, Sam Feltus wrote: > Hey ya'll. > > I was wanting to tinker with ModPerl on a local machine. > > Was thinking of getting RedHat 9.0, since hosting company is a RedHat shop. > > I have only really used SuSe 8, so am spoiled with a nice GUI to install packages for me, so I can remain Happily Lazy and Ignorant of the CLI install process whenever possible. > > Choices > RedHat 9.0 > RedHat Fedora Core 1 > SuSe Pro 9 Upgrade > Something else ya'll suggest > > Obviously all are so dirt cheap price is irrelevant. > > I really like SuSe due to it doing alot of dirty work for me. > > Sam the Perl Gardener > I'm out of tune with all distros that don't happen to be debian. Debian however isn't for the CLI adverse. Sorry, can't be much help there. Before you go too far, have you checked to make sure your hosting company provides a mod_perl environment? If you're co-locating a server you should be in good shape, but I'd be surprised if a regular shared hosting company allowed mod_perl. -d From markh at markh.com Tue Apr 6 14:39:59 2004 From: markh at markh.com (Mark Hazen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question In-Reply-To: <20040406165930.55561.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040406165930.55561.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040406193959.GA32284@archon.thehazens.net> > I was wanting to tinker with ModPerl on a local machine. Woo, you asked a holy-war kind of question... "what distro should I use?" :) It really boils down to how much you *want* to learna about linux, and if you do want to learn about linux, how much you want your distro to be close to the heart of what makes up linux, versus how customized it is for a particular distro. Beyond this, if you think you might need to customize Apache or mod_perl at all, you'll likely to need to compile it yourself eventually. Otherwise, for learning purposes, you'll probably like the convenience of something with *both* good management tools and precompiled packages.a Oversimplifying here, but this leaves out both Gentoo and Debian. Gentoo is generally a compile things yourself distro, and yes, while the compile process is painless (it's wrappered under their package management system), it's still compiling, and that can be quite intimidating for people who are new to Linux. I have had much better success getting things to work as desired under Gentoo than most distros, but it's a thumbs down as far as "plug it in and go". Debian has very good packages with pretty sane defaults, but is pretty atrocious when it comes to mixing in prepackaged items and compiling and installing applications from source... Also, the versions of softwar ethey use are, for the sake of sticking to the tried and true, pretty far back in history for a lot of things. IMO you have to know a lot more about how Debian works under the hood before you will feel comfy there... you can easily get into what people used to call "RPM Hell" under Redhat, which means you have a mix of precompiled and custom compiled code, and have to do a lot of juggling to get things to work seamlessly). Mandrake's very good on the pointy-clicky management, but it's got a ton of stuff piled on top... because it's primarily a desktop distro. I've not used the new RedHat versions, but I've heard pretty decent things about them, so that really seems to be the best choice here, because when you buy RedHat, you are really paying for their top-notch support. Debian is, if you don't mind a good bit of "uh, okay, sure, use the defaults and I will figure it out later" a great choice if you want to install a free distribution now just to try something out. The installation is a nightmare though because there's no official "download and boot ths disc" to get things rolling, you're a little bit on your own. See if a friend has the Lord Sutch netinstall CD (I have one somewhere I think) and borrow that from 'em... I've never gotten Debian's CD-building tool (jigdo) to give me a working install CD, out of four or five attempts. O'course, I say that, not having used Redhat since RH8, and not having used it as my core distro since 7.2 or so... :) All of this is opinion, if you hadn't noticed. Everyone seems to have their favorites, and I've had different good and bad experiences with different distros from everyone else. YMMV... :) -mh. ---- . _+m"m+_"+_ Mark Hazen d' Jp qh qh Jp O O O Yb Yb dY dY O "Y5m2Y" " even the mightiest wave starts out as a ripple. "Y_ why make waves when it's easier to nurture ripples? From mdxi at collapsar.net Tue Apr 6 19:18:47 2004 From: mdxi at collapsar.net (Shawn Boyette) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question In-Reply-To: <20040406193959.GA32284@archon.thehazens.net> References: <20040406165930.55561.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> <20040406193959.GA32284@archon.thehazens.net> Message-ID: <20040407001847.GB26899@fornax.collapsar.net> On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 03:39:59PM -0400, Mark Hazen wrote: > Debian has very good packages with pretty sane defaults, but is pretty > atrocious when it comes to mixing in prepackaged items and compiling and > installing applications from source... I found rather the opposite to be true: one big reason I abandoned RedHat all those years ago was that I found *it* very bad at handling handbuilt things, multiple versions of libs, and the like (note: I'm talking about redhat 5 here), while it's never been an issue with Debian. > Also, the versions of softwar ethey > use are, for the sake of sticking to the tried and true, pretty far back in > history for a lot of things. This is only true if you're using the Stable distro. And when Debian says "Stable", they don't mean "Not Broken", they mean "Guaranteed Never To Change Except For The Most Important Security Patches And Bugfixes". Stable, in a nutshell, is for building business apps on top of. Most rational desktop users should use the Testing distro, which gives you all the up-to-date goodness of the Unstable (Development) distro, but with a 10 day no-bugs-filed delay on packages. It really is the best of both worlds. All my servers actually run Testing. As something of an aside, I never had anything but the worst of luck with distro-supplied Apaches, especially complicated ones like mod_* variants; I always build Apache by hand. so I was initially pretty confused by this question. As in "What the hell Apache gots to do with your distro?" -- Shawn Boyette mdxi@collapsar.net From clmf8 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 12:33:47 2004 From: clmf8 at yahoo.com (Sam Feltus) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] Re: Classiccity-pm Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <200404071700.i37H0Xf00923@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <20040407173347.6556.qmail@web12503.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks. I was figuring on practicing at home, then paying for some sort of CoLocation or Dedicated Hosting setup in a few months. Sounds like I just need to do some experimenting. Sam the Gardener Maybe I will start with the new SuSe. They make setting up MySQL and Apache easy as pie. Maybe the Modperl install won't be too nasty. classiccity-pm-request@mail.pm.org wrote: Send Classiccity-pm mailing list submissions to classiccity-pm@mail.pm.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/classiccity-pm or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to classiccity-pm-request@mail.pm.org You can reach the person managing the list at classiccity-pm-owner@mail.pm.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Classiccity-pm digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mod Perl Question (Darrell Golliher) 2. Re: Mod Perl Question (Mark Hazen) 3. Re: Mod Perl Question (Shawn Boyette) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:07:53 -0400 From: Darrell Golliher Subject: Re: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question To: "All purpose mailing list for Athens, Ga Perl Mongers" Message-ID: <20040406170753.GA23496@golliher.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 09:59:30AM -0700, Sam Feltus wrote: > Hey ya'll. > > I was wanting to tinker with ModPerl on a local machine. > > Was thinking of getting RedHat 9.0, since hosting company is a RedHat shop. > > I have only really used SuSe 8, so am spoiled with a nice GUI to install packages for me, so I can remain Happily Lazy and Ignorant of the CLI install process whenever possible. > > Choices > RedHat 9.0 > RedHat Fedora Core 1 > SuSe Pro 9 Upgrade > Something else ya'll suggest > > Obviously all are so dirt cheap price is irrelevant. > > I really like SuSe due to it doing alot of dirty work for me. > > Sam the Perl Gardener > I'm out of tune with all distros that don't happen to be debian. Debian however isn't for the CLI adverse. Sorry, can't be much help there. Before you go too far, have you checked to make sure your hosting company provides a mod_perl environment? If you're co-locating a server you should be in good shape, but I'd be surprised if a regular shared hosting company allowed mod_perl. -d ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:39:59 -0400 From: Mark Hazen Subject: Re: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question To: "All purpose mailing list for Athens, Ga Perl Mongers" Message-ID: <20040406193959.GA32284@archon.thehazens.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I was wanting to tinker with ModPerl on a local machine. Woo, you asked a holy-war kind of question... "what distro should I use?" :) It really boils down to how much you *want* to learna about linux, and if you do want to learn about linux, how much you want your distro to be close to the heart of what makes up linux, versus how customized it is for a particular distro. Beyond this, if you think you might need to customize Apache or mod_perl at all, you'll likely to need to compile it yourself eventually. Otherwise, for learning purposes, you'll probably like the convenience of something with *both* good management tools and precompiled packages.a Oversimplifying here, but this leaves out both Gentoo and Debian. Gentoo is generally a compile things yourself distro, and yes, while the compile process is painless (it's wrappered under their package management system), it's still compiling, and that can be quite intimidating for people who are new to Linux. I have had much better success getting things to work as desired under Gentoo than most distros, but it's a thumbs down as far as "plug it in and go". Debian has very good packages with pretty sane defaults, but is pretty atrocious when it comes to mixing in prepackaged items and compiling and installing applications from source... Also, the versions of softwar ethey use are, for the sake of sticking to the tried and true, pretty far back in history for a lot of things. IMO you have to know a lot more about how Debian works under the hood before you will feel comfy there... you can easily get into what people used to call "RPM Hell" under Redhat, which means you have a mix of precompiled and custom compiled code, and have to do a lot of juggling to get things to work seamlessly). Mandrake's very good on the pointy-clicky management, but it's got a ton of stuff piled on top... because it's primarily a desktop distro. I've not used the new RedHat versions, but I've heard pretty decent things about them, so that really seems to be the best choice here, because when you buy RedHat, you are really paying for their top-notch support. Debian is, if you don't mind a good bit of "uh, okay, sure, use the defaults and I will figure it out later" a great choice if you want to install a free distribution now just to try something out. The installation is a nightmare though because there's no official "download and boot ths disc" to get things rolling, you're a little bit on your own. See if a friend has the Lord Sutch netinstall CD (I have one somewhere I think) and borrow that from 'em... I've never gotten Debian's CD-building tool (jigdo) to give me a working install CD, out of four or five attempts. O'course, I say that, not having used Redhat since RH8, and not having used it as my core distro since 7.2 or so... :) All of this is opinion, if you hadn't noticed. Everyone seems to have their favorites, and I've had different good and bad experiences with different distros from everyone else. YMMV... :) -mh. ---- . _+m"m+_"+_ Mark Hazen d' Jp qh qh Jp O O O Yb Yb dY dY O "Y5m2Y" " even the mightiest wave starts out as a ripple. "Y_ why make waves when it's easier to nurture ripples? ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:18:47 -0400 From: Shawn Boyette Subject: Re: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question To: "All purpose mailing list for Athens, Ga Perl Mongers" Message-ID: <20040407001847.GB26899@fornax.collapsar.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 03:39:59PM -0400, Mark Hazen wrote: > Debian has very good packages with pretty sane defaults, but is pretty > atrocious when it comes to mixing in prepackaged items and compiling and > installing applications from source... I found rather the opposite to be true: one big reason I abandoned RedHat all those years ago was that I found *it* very bad at handling handbuilt things, multiple versions of libs, and the like (note: I'm talking about redhat 5 here), while it's never been an issue with Debian. > Also, the versions of softwar ethey > use are, for the sake of sticking to the tried and true, pretty far back in > history for a lot of things. This is only true if you're using the Stable distro. And when Debian says "Stable", they don't mean "Not Broken", they mean "Guaranteed Never To Change Except For The Most Important Security Patches And Bugfixes". Stable, in a nutshell, is for building business apps on top of. Most rational desktop users should use the Testing distro, which gives you all the up-to-date goodness of the Unstable (Development) distro, but with a 10 day no-bugs-filed delay on packages. It really is the best of both worlds. All my servers actually run Testing. As something of an aside, I never had anything but the worst of luck with distro-supplied Apaches, especially complicated ones like mod_* variants; I always build Apache by hand. so I was initially pretty confused by this question. As in "What the hell Apache gots to do with your distro?" -- Shawn Boyette mdxi@collapsar.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Classiccity-pm mailing list Classiccity-pm@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/classiccity-pm End of Classiccity-pm Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2 ********************************************* --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/classiccity-pm/attachments/20040407/99478167/attachment.htm From clmf8 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 12:38:07 2004 From: clmf8 at yahoo.com (Sam Feltus) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] Re: Classiccity-pm Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <200404071700.i37H0Xf00923@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <20040407173807.56467.qmail@web12506.mail.yahoo.com> PS, I am not against using a CLI, just prefer to avoid it when possible. Guess that's the slcker in me. sam classiccity-pm-request@mail.pm.org wrote: Send Classiccity-pm mailing list submissions to classiccity-pm@mail.pm.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/classiccity-pm or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to classiccity-pm-request@mail.pm.org You can reach the person managing the list at classiccity-pm-owner@mail.pm.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Classiccity-pm digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mod Perl Question (Darrell Golliher) 2. Re: Mod Perl Question (Mark Hazen) 3. Re: Mod Perl Question (Shawn Boyette) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:07:53 -0400 From: Darrell Golliher Subject: Re: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question To: "All purpose mailing list for Athens, Ga Perl Mongers" Message-ID: <20040406170753.GA23496@golliher.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 09:59:30AM -0700, Sam Feltus wrote: > Hey ya'll. > > I was wanting to tinker with ModPerl on a local machine. > > Was thinking of getting RedHat 9.0, since hosting company is a RedHat shop. > > I have only really used SuSe 8, so am spoiled with a nice GUI to install packages for me, so I can remain Happily Lazy and Ignorant of the CLI install process whenever possible. > > Choices > RedHat 9.0 > RedHat Fedora Core 1 > SuSe Pro 9 Upgrade > Something else ya'll suggest > > Obviously all are so dirt cheap price is irrelevant. > > I really like SuSe due to it doing alot of dirty work for me. > > Sam the Perl Gardener > I'm out of tune with all distros that don't happen to be debian. Debian however isn't for the CLI adverse. Sorry, can't be much help there. Before you go too far, have you checked to make sure your hosting company provides a mod_perl environment? If you're co-locating a server you should be in good shape, but I'd be surprised if a regular shared hosting company allowed mod_perl. -d ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:39:59 -0400 From: Mark Hazen Subject: Re: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question To: "All purpose mailing list for Athens, Ga Perl Mongers" Message-ID: <20040406193959.GA32284@archon.thehazens.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I was wanting to tinker with ModPerl on a local machine. Woo, you asked a holy-war kind of question... "what distro should I use?" :) It really boils down to how much you *want* to learna about linux, and if you do want to learn about linux, how much you want your distro to be close to the heart of what makes up linux, versus how customized it is for a particular distro. Beyond this, if you think you might need to customize Apache or mod_perl at all, you'll likely to need to compile it yourself eventually. Otherwise, for learning purposes, you'll probably like the convenience of something with *both* good management tools and precompiled packages.a Oversimplifying here, but this leaves out both Gentoo and Debian. Gentoo is generally a compile things yourself distro, and yes, while the compile process is painless (it's wrappered under their package management system), it's still compiling, and that can be quite intimidating for people who are new to Linux. I have had much better success getting things to work as desired under Gentoo than most distros, but it's a thumbs down as far as "plug it in and go". Debian has very good packages with pretty sane defaults, but is pretty atrocious when it comes to mixing in prepackaged items and compiling and installing applications from source... Also, the versions of softwar ethey use are, for the sake of sticking to the tried and true, pretty far back in history for a lot of things. IMO you have to know a lot more about how Debian works under the hood before you will feel comfy there... you can easily get into what people used to call "RPM Hell" under Redhat, which means you have a mix of precompiled and custom compiled code, and have to do a lot of juggling to get things to work seamlessly). Mandrake's very good on the pointy-clicky management, but it's got a ton of stuff piled on top... because it's primarily a desktop distro. I've not used the new RedHat versions, but I've heard pretty decent things about them, so that really seems to be the best choice here, because when you buy RedHat, you are really paying for their top-notch support. Debian is, if you don't mind a good bit of "uh, okay, sure, use the defaults and I will figure it out later" a great choice if you want to install a free distribution now just to try something out. The installation is a nightmare though because there's no official "download and boot ths disc" to get things rolling, you're a little bit on your own. See if a friend has the Lord Sutch netinstall CD (I have one somewhere I think) and borrow that from 'em... I've never gotten Debian's CD-building tool (jigdo) to give me a working install CD, out of four or five attempts. O'course, I say that, not having used Redhat since RH8, and not having used it as my core distro since 7.2 or so... :) All of this is opinion, if you hadn't noticed. Everyone seems to have their favorites, and I've had different good and bad experiences with different distros from everyone else. YMMV... :) -mh. ---- . _+m"m+_"+_ Mark Hazen d' Jp qh qh Jp O O O Yb Yb dY dY O "Y5m2Y" " even the mightiest wave starts out as a ripple. "Y_ why make waves when it's easier to nurture ripples? ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:18:47 -0400 From: Shawn Boyette Subject: Re: [Classiccity-pm] Mod Perl Question To: "All purpose mailing list for Athens, Ga Perl Mongers" Message-ID: <20040407001847.GB26899@fornax.collapsar.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 03:39:59PM -0400, Mark Hazen wrote: > Debian has very good packages with pretty sane defaults, but is pretty > atrocious when it comes to mixing in prepackaged items and compiling and > installing applications from source... I found rather the opposite to be true: one big reason I abandoned RedHat all those years ago was that I found *it* very bad at handling handbuilt things, multiple versions of libs, and the like (note: I'm talking about redhat 5 here), while it's never been an issue with Debian. > Also, the versions of softwar ethey > use are, for the sake of sticking to the tried and true, pretty far back in > history for a lot of things. This is only true if you're using the Stable distro. And when Debian says "Stable", they don't mean "Not Broken", they mean "Guaranteed Never To Change Except For The Most Important Security Patches And Bugfixes". Stable, in a nutshell, is for building business apps on top of. Most rational desktop users should use the Testing distro, which gives you all the up-to-date goodness of the Unstable (Development) distro, but with a 10 day no-bugs-filed delay on packages. It really is the best of both worlds. All my servers actually run Testing. As something of an aside, I never had anything but the worst of luck with distro-supplied Apaches, especially complicated ones like mod_* variants; I always build Apache by hand. so I was initially pretty confused by this question. As in "What the hell Apache gots to do with your distro?" -- Shawn Boyette mdxi@collapsar.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Classiccity-pm mailing list Classiccity-pm@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/classiccity-pm End of Classiccity-pm Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2 ********************************************* --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/classiccity-pm/attachments/20040407/e1e3741f/attachment.htm From lgrove at uga.edu Fri Apr 16 13:33:25 2004 From: lgrove at uga.edu (Leslie Grove) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] meeting minutes Message-ID: <408026F5.9010004@uga.edu> Hello, Mongers, The "minutes" from our last meeting are up: http://classiccity.pm.org/null?SixthMeeting Feel free to edit, of course! -- Leslie Grove Computing Services UGA Law School (706) 542-5070 lgrove@uga.edu From mdxi at collapsar.net Fri Apr 30 18:36:17 2004 From: mdxi at collapsar.net (Shawn Boyette) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] More Unicode Gotchas Message-ID: <20040430233617.GA10167@fornax.collapsar.net> I just spent an hour wrestling with this. Learn from my pain. http://use.perl.org/~mdxi/journal/18570 -- Shawn Boyette mdxi@collapsar.net From mdxi at collapsar.net Fri Apr 30 18:40:07 2004 From: mdxi at collapsar.net (Shawn Boyette) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:38 2004 Subject: [Classiccity-pm] nevermind Message-ID: <20040430234007.GB10167@fornax.collapsar.net> Nevermind. That whole journal entry and the problem it detailed was based on a flawed assumption. Nothing to see here! -- Shawn Boyette mdxi@collapsar.net