From richard at rushlogistics.com  Wed Apr  3 10:33:04 2024
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 13:33:04 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Can anyone help with a regex?
Message-ID: <1712165584.shyny07xkowckwko@hostingemail.digitalspace.net>

I want to be able to find the sting 'ACCT/ID Number(s):' 

Here's what I've tried so far.


my $line = "ACCT/ID Number(s): 1334356";
my $d = "ACCT/ID Number(s):";


if ($line =~ /\b$d(\s|$)/) {

? ? print "Found $d in line\n";

}

?

From amead at alanmead.org  Wed Apr  3 10:36:05 2024
From: amead at alanmead.org (Alan Mead)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 12:36:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Can anyone help with a regex?
In-Reply-To: <1712165584.shyny07xkowckwko@hostingemail.digitalspace.net>
References: <1712165584.shyny07xkowckwko@hostingemail.digitalspace.net>
Message-ID: <06275de1-8a3f-4c9c-a48d-a872959cd02d@alanmead.org>

I think you need to escape a slash, but in the interest of teaching 
fishing, when I have this issue I use a regex debugger like this: 
https://regex101.com/

-Alan

On 4/3/24 12:33, Richard Reina wrote:
> I want to be able to find the sting 'ACCT/ID Number(s):'
>
> Here's what I've tried so far.
>
>
> my $line = "ACCT/ID Number(s): 1334356";
> my $d = "ACCT/ID Number(s):";
>
>
> if ($line =~ /\b$d(\s|$)/) {
>
>  ? ? print "Found $d in line\n";
>
> }
>
>   
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

-- 

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

https://talalg.com


He who confuses political liberty with freedom and political equality
with similarity has never thought for five minutes about either.

-- Shaw, from "Maxims for Revolutionists"



From shlomif at shlomifish.org  Wed Apr  3 10:52:11 2024
From: shlomif at shlomifish.org (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 20:52:11 +0300
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Can anyone help with a regex?
In-Reply-To: <1712165584.shyny07xkowckwko@hostingemail.digitalspace.net>
References: <1712165584.shyny07xkowckwko@hostingemail.digitalspace.net>
Message-ID: <20240403205211.275c8e1a@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>

Hi Richard,

On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 13:33:04 -0400
"Richard Reina" <richard at rushlogistics.com> wrote:

> I want to be able to find the sting 'ACCT/ID Number(s):' 
> 
> Here's what I've tried so far.
> 
> 
> my $line = "ACCT/ID Number(s): 1334356";
> my $d = "ACCT/ID Number(s):";
> 
> 
> if ($line =~ /\b$d(\s|$)/) {
> 
> ? ? print "Found $d in line\n";
> 
> }
> 

Please see
https://perl-begin.org/FAQs/freenode-perl/#How_can_I_match_a_string_variable_inside_a_regex.3F
and https://perl-begin.org/topics/security/code-markup-injection/ and quotemeta
and \Q ? \E .

> ?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk



-- 

Shlomi Fish       https://www.shlomifish.org/
https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Summerschool-at-the-NSA/

You have a Mac server? Next you'll tell me that you have an HP-UX desktop.
    - ##programming

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - https://shlom.in/reply .

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Wed Apr  3 11:31:02 2024
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy Bach)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 18:31:02 +0000
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Can anyone help with a regex?
In-Reply-To: <1712165584.shyny07xkowckwko@hostingemail.digitalspace.net>
References: <1712165584.shyny07xkowckwko@hostingemail.digitalspace.net>
Message-ID: <MW4PR09MB93167C01D27B17733F43E574C03D2@MW4PR09MB9316.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

my $line = "ACCT/ID Number(s): 1334356";
my $d = "ACCT/ID Number(s):";

The parens in $d are metachars, so they don't match actual parens, but are capture markers.  You could use "." to match one char
my $d = "ACCT/ID Number.s.:";

gets
Found ACCT/ID Number(s): in line

but would also match that sequence with other chars besides parens. You could escape the parens - easier if you then use single quotes, so the escapes won't "go away"
my $d = 'ACCT/ID Number\(s\):';

gets
Found ACCT/ID Number\(s\): in line

so, the best, as mentioned, is \Q ...\E to escape any metachars between those markers in the match
if ($line =~ /\b\Q$d\E(\s|$)/) {

gets
Found ACCT/ID Number(s): in line
________________________________
From: Chicago-talk <chicago-talk-bounces+andy_bach=wiwb.uscourts.gov at pm.org> on behalf of Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 12:33 PM
To: chicago-talk at pm.org <chicago-talk at pm.org>
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Can anyone help with a regex?

CAUTION - EXTERNAL:


I want to be able to find the sting 'ACCT/ID Number(s):'

Here's what I've tried so far.


my $line = "ACCT/ID Number(s): 1334356";
my $d = "ACCT/ID Number(s):";


if ($line =~ /\b$d(\s|$)/) {

    print "Found $d in line\n";

}


_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk at pm.org
https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
CAUTION - EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated outside the Judiciary. Exercise caution when opening attachments or clicking on links.

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From me at heyjay.com  Thu Apr  4 19:55:22 2024
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay S)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2024 21:55:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
Message-ID: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Perl Mongers,
I hope all is well.

I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.

It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of fizzled
out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have Python people
(and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention Perl.

Is my perspective right, wrong?

Jay
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From sean at blanton.com  Fri Apr  5 07:11:34 2024
From: sean at blanton.com (Sean Blanton)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 09:11:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0pDW7VoqovGqJG+HrBY+OwgGufUt+rJ99VVfRwamD4ET1fqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Python has definitely become a lingua Franca dynamic language.  It?s
success is because for beginners, it?s a relatively straight forward
Engineering language.

I?m happy to be corrected, but Perl is based on natural languages. Like any
complex set of entities, as languages, I don?t think you can rank Python
and Perl relative to one another simply and hierarchically. Hard to justify
introducing Perl for major projects in a business environment though
because of the widespread adoption of Python. Perl6 was its own thing - not
necessarily intended to be a competitor to Python

Behind the initial appearance of simplicity in Python lies the same, if not
more hidden obscurity that was used to denigrate Perl over Python.

Perl still has its place. Linux has it all over the place and Git ships
with a Perl. It?s the preferred language for low level OS functions. I
associate Perl with brilliant, creative programmers rather than boring
engineers, reflecting the people I know in the Chicago PUG and YAPCs ??

Regards,
Sean

Sean Blanton
sean at blanton.com


On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 9:55 PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:

> Hi Perl Mongers,
> I hope all is well.
>
> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
>
> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of fizzled
> out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have Python people
> (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention Perl.
>
> Is my perspective right, wrong?
>
> Jay
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From mikefrag at gmail.com  Fri Apr  5 08:36:40 2024
From: mikefrag at gmail.com (Mike Fragassi)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 10:36:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAKpS=6SJg5sXG7FA6HSnhabyqUf8caG=HF4YrOwSKexAxRxyA@mail.gmail.com>

This seems more or less correct. My Perl activity at work has become
strictly maintenance of existing applications, including adding minor
features. We've moved to Python for all new work. A lot of it comes down to
that it used to be that all the new hires had at least passing experience
with Perl; but now, it's Python instead. Slow attrition has left us with
just 2 people at all comfortable with Perl, and I'm the only "expert".

Incidentally, I was helped *immensely* when my job, for a moment, was
willing to fund training; I jumped to take an in-person course from David
Beazley, a local who has written/co-written several Python books, including
O'Reilly's Python Cookbook. (His site is https://www.dabeaz.com/)

Speaking for myself, the one thing that Python has, that makes me actually
angry with Perl for missing, is built-in Exceptions. I will defend Perl's
honor that it was not 'line noise' to anyone who tosses out that old line,
but I never ever ever want to deal with "$@" again.

Perl 6 is now "Raku" since 2019, and it seems that existing under its own
"brand" is beneficial for both languages. It should have been done years
earlier.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 9:56?PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:

> Hi Perl Mongers,
> I hope all is well.
>
> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
>
> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of fizzled
> out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have Python people
> (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention Perl.
>
> Is my perspective right, wrong?
>
> Jay
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From joel.limardo at forwardphase.com  Fri Apr  5 09:17:26 2024
From: joel.limardo at forwardphase.com (J L)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 11:17:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOfjradK9VAn9uqGxx1wj6nHSTWu08etKSm7wZu4-D6V4y1UYA@mail.gmail.com>

"I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years."

Here's my two cents:  If the entities you serve do not want Perl who cares?
What do YOU want? When I work with a company they give me an assignment--
give us X. How I model X, support X until I hand it over to their own
internal support department, etc. is *my* business. How I handle contact
management (Perl), documentation (wiki written in Perl), and even software
testing (system I wrote in Perl) is MY business. They get the cake; I keep
the pan, spoons, cling wrap, and the ovens. Now I can make more cakes
elsewhere. I can even give them away.

Perl's strength is that it gives you an actual tool to help you think for
yourself. You don't need a company to tell you what software problems to
think about. Just as the writer *must* write the programmer *must* program.
To the devil with what companies want and what some nondescript IT
management fool is telling you. What do YOU want to do with the wonderful
grey matter residing atop thine head? Solve problems, explore.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024, 9:56 PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:

> Hi Perl Mongers,
> I hope all is well.
>
> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
>
> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of fizzled
> out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have Python people
> (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention Perl.
>
> Is my perspective right, wrong?
>
> Jay
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From sean at blanton.com  Fri Apr  5 09:56:00 2024
From: sean at blanton.com (Sean Blanton)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 11:56:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CAOfjradK9VAn9uqGxx1wj6nHSTWu08etKSm7wZu4-D6V4y1UYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOfjradK9VAn9uqGxx1wj6nHSTWu08etKSm7wZu4-D6V4y1UYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0pDW65M+GseF53=uyr89T5=D3DFE+-FZbBgHwD2_39soxf4A@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, Perl is a thinking person's tool, which turns a lot of people off.
Perl and Python are still like 95% identical from 50,000 ft up from the
user's perspective. The strictness of Python helps less capable programmers
a bit but the rise of Python can also be attributed to people wanting to
get on the latest greatest trend as well...  Go was trendy after Python,
but it's not going to unseat Python. Go has its place as something a bit
better than Java for production and commercial applications. Docker,
Influxdb, Grafana, all the Hashicorp tools - they are all written in Go.

A couple of annoying things about Python; users are continually confused by
immutable objects, which is a common cause for production issues I find,
and Python dispenses with a super important best practice which is in the
namespace of public modules. Perl wasn't great, but it tracked C++ at
least. Java and Go nailed it for the internet age, where you use the
reverse TLDN as the namespace ~like
com.google.<division>.<project>.<module>, so  People name Python modules
whatever the heck is the very first thing they think of and at least one
popular package manager may preferentially pull something from the internet
with the same name. There's ways around that.

Ironically, I joined DRW 5 months ago, who used to host the Perl UG
meetings in downtown Chicago at 540 W Madison. Even funnier: they acquired
the company I was working for, Chopper, when I was attending the PUG's, but
they didn't acquire me. I had some adventures at other places and now I'm
working with the same people I used to work with at Chopper. They still
have Perl in production but safe to say Python is the big cheese.

Regards,
Sean

Sean Blanton
sean at blanton.com


On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 11:17?AM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:

> "I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years."
>
> Here's my two cents:  If the entities you serve do not want Perl who
> cares? What do YOU want? When I work with a company they give me an
> assignment-- give us X. How I model X, support X until I hand it over to
> their own internal support department, etc. is *my* business. How I handle
> contact management (Perl), documentation (wiki written in Perl), and even
> software testing (system I wrote in Perl) is MY business. They get the
> cake; I keep the pan, spoons, cling wrap, and the ovens. Now I can make
> more cakes elsewhere. I can even give them away.
>
> Perl's strength is that it gives you an actual tool to help you think for
> yourself. You don't need a company to tell you what software problems to
> think about. Just as the writer *must* write the programmer *must* program.
> To the devil with what companies want and what some nondescript IT
> management fool is telling you. What do YOU want to do with the wonderful
> grey matter residing atop thine head? Solve problems, explore.
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2024, 9:56 PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Perl Mongers,
>> I hope all is well.
>>
>> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
>> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
>>
>> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of
>> fizzled out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have
>> Python people (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention
>> Perl.
>>
>> Is my perspective right, wrong?
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From me at heyjay.com  Fri Apr  5 12:13:56 2024
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay S)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 14:13:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CAAKpS=6SJg5sXG7FA6HSnhabyqUf8caG=HF4YrOwSKexAxRxyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAKpS=6SJg5sXG7FA6HSnhabyqUf8caG=HF4YrOwSKexAxRxyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANpdWGXNnBDhsTgDOQmHuWRGxQSOufT37mT2KdjU+kE-E78NHg@mail.gmail.com>

maybe one day I'll try to learn Python.
I always loved perl because it was so simple to do simple stuff quickly
my understanding is that Python is more formal, and not a quick to rip off
a quick script

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 10:36?AM Mike Fragassi <mikefrag at gmail.com> wrote:

> This seems more or less correct. My Perl activity at work has become
> strictly maintenance of existing applications, including adding minor
> features. We've moved to Python for all new work. A lot of it comes down to
> that it used to be that all the new hires had at least passing experience
> with Perl; but now, it's Python instead. Slow attrition has left us with
> just 2 people at all comfortable with Perl, and I'm the only "expert".
>
> Incidentally, I was helped *immensely* when my job, for a moment, was
> willing to fund training; I jumped to take an in-person course from David
> Beazley, a local who has written/co-written several Python books, including
> O'Reilly's Python Cookbook. (His site is https://www.dabeaz.com/)
>
> Speaking for myself, the one thing that Python has, that makes me actually
> angry with Perl for missing, is built-in Exceptions. I will defend Perl's
> honor that it was not 'line noise' to anyone who tosses out that old line,
> but I never ever ever want to deal with "$@" again.
>
> Perl 6 is now "Raku" since 2019, and it seems that existing under its own
> "brand" is beneficial for both languages. It should have been done years
> earlier.
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 9:56?PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Perl Mongers,
>> I hope all is well.
>>
>> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
>> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
>>
>> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of
>> fizzled out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have
>> Python people (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention
>> Perl.
>>
>> Is my perspective right, wrong?
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From cjhamil at gmail.com  Fri Apr  5 13:31:31 2024
From: cjhamil at gmail.com (Chris Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 15:31:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CAOfjradK9VAn9uqGxx1wj6nHSTWu08etKSm7wZu4-D6V4y1UYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOfjradK9VAn9uqGxx1wj6nHSTWu08etKSm7wZu4-D6V4y1UYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+H4PxAmUQip9Q=rLX0uV-0jXBOJDnnvLkEuBt9syA85deT-Bw@mail.gmail.com>

As little more than a consumer of information on this list, I feel like I
wanted to chime in for once in support of this view. I agree strongly with
the notion that my role in a company is to take the business needs that
company has and translate that into technology-driven deliverables that I
believe best serve those business needs. Choosing the "best" tool for a job
isn't always a purely objective decision, and there are often plenty of
tools you can use to accomplish that same purpose. It is not the decision
of people who consume the outputs of my work to determine for me mechanisms
that drive those outputs. Their job is to sufficiently define the needs of
the deliverable (often needing assistance to even do that well, in most
cases), my job is to deliver on that. Part of that deliverable (as it
should also be part of the underlying requirements) is for that solution to
be reasonably maintainable and sufficiently long lasting (and only on this
very small area might the choice of Perl vs. Non-Perl be a consideration,
based solely upon available resources -- though even this common sentiment
is something I don't particularly agree on).

I love Perl. I'm unashamedly an advocate for Perl whenever the topic is
discussed. I've been building large scale web applications in Perl for
nearly 20 years. I've also been hearing how Perl is a "dead language" since
the first time I was exposed to it on the job and was told the application
I'd be working on was written in Perl. Strangely enough, I'm still building
greenfield products in Perl to this day and will likely continue to do so
until something massively changes that makes doing so a less optimal
approach for me.

Anytime this topic comes arises out and about with non-Perl folks (and even
a lot of the time with Perl folks) I will continually hear more about why
using Perl is a terrible choice these days (seemingly regardless of
whenever "these days" are at the time). Meanwhile, every time I begin
building something of even moderate complexity with something that *isn't *Perl
I find myself facing situations that would have been so much more readily
available to accomplish in Perl. For the sake of this discussion, I'm not
even going to bother coming up with various anecdotal examples (because
even if I did, that would carry no tangible weight in this argument, as
they would be purely anecdotal and also possibly even the result of my own
ignorance in a given specific scenario). The reality is this, from my
perspective: Perl makes easy things easy to do, but more importantly it
turns a lot of things that are seemingly *impossible *to do into things
that can at least be accomplished.

I can find plenty of things in Perl to complain about, but I can also find
plenty of things about *any* language to complain about.

Do I wish Perl 6 didn't exist (or at least had picked a different name at
the outset)? Yes. I didn't ring that bell and we (seemingly) can't unring
that bell. This will go down in history as one of the stupidest marketing
blunders of all time, imo.

Do I wish Perl was perfect? Sure, stupid question.

Do I think Perl is better than any reasonably comparable language? Hell yes
I do... and at the very least, it's certainly no worse than any of them.

Python is *fine*. Perl is better.

-Chris

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 11:17?AM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:

> "I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years."
>
> Here's my two cents:  If the entities you serve do not want Perl who
> cares? What do YOU want? When I work with a company they give me an
> assignment-- give us X. How I model X, support X until I hand it over to
> their own internal support department, etc. is *my* business. How I handle
> contact management (Perl), documentation (wiki written in Perl), and even
> software testing (system I wrote in Perl) is MY business. They get the
> cake; I keep the pan, spoons, cling wrap, and the ovens. Now I can make
> more cakes elsewhere. I can even give them away.
>
> Perl's strength is that it gives you an actual tool to help you think for
> yourself. You don't need a company to tell you what software problems to
> think about. Just as the writer *must* write the programmer *must* program.
> To the devil with what companies want and what some nondescript IT
> management fool is telling you. What do YOU want to do with the wonderful
> grey matter residing atop thine head? Solve problems, explore.
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2024, 9:56 PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Perl Mongers,
>> I hope all is well.
>>
>> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
>> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
>>
>> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of
>> fizzled out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have
>> Python people (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention
>> Perl.
>>
>> Is my perspective right, wrong?
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From mikefrag at gmail.com  Fri Apr  5 15:26:09 2024
From: mikefrag at gmail.com (Mike Fragassi)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 17:26:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CANpdWGXNnBDhsTgDOQmHuWRGxQSOufT37mT2KdjU+kE-E78NHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGXoQWBB85FycZ4O+MRh9C-z1aLHGcOk+Bbw9g_iiXX+wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAKpS=6SJg5sXG7FA6HSnhabyqUf8caG=HF4YrOwSKexAxRxyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANpdWGXNnBDhsTgDOQmHuWRGxQSOufT37mT2KdjU+kE-E78NHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAKpS=7w6Pu9FvZbW+sZNdsbX1Kij4L8XvZHUZXVw8jnRMTusA@mail.gmail.com>

I think Perl has advantages in system script "whipitupitude" because things
like file operations, file tests, regexs, and backticks are all built-in
functions & operators, that do not require importing from libraries as in
Python (os, sys, re, subprocess). That said - once those libraries are
learned, it's not *that* different, or difficult.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 2:14?PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:

> maybe one day I'll try to learn Python.
> I always loved perl because it was so simple to do simple stuff quickly
> my understanding is that Python is more formal, and not a quick to rip off
> a quick script
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 10:36?AM Mike Fragassi <mikefrag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This seems more or less correct. My Perl activity at work has become
>> strictly maintenance of existing applications, including adding minor
>> features. We've moved to Python for all new work. A lot of it comes down to
>> that it used to be that all the new hires had at least passing experience
>> with Perl; but now, it's Python instead. Slow attrition has left us with
>> just 2 people at all comfortable with Perl, and I'm the only "expert".
>>
>> Incidentally, I was helped *immensely* when my job, for a moment, was
>> willing to fund training; I jumped to take an in-person course from David
>> Beazley, a local who has written/co-written several Python books, including
>> O'Reilly's Python Cookbook. (His site is https://www.dabeaz.com/)
>>
>> Speaking for myself, the one thing that Python has, that makes me
>> actually angry with Perl for missing, is built-in Exceptions. I will defend
>> Perl's honor that it was not 'line noise' to anyone who tosses out that old
>> line, but I never ever ever want to deal with "$@" again.
>>
>> Perl 6 is now "Raku" since 2019, and it seems that existing under its own
>> "brand" is beneficial for both languages. It should have been done years
>> earlier.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 9:56?PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Perl Mongers,
>>> I hope all is well.
>>>
>>> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
>>> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
>>>
>>> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of
>>> fizzled out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have
>>> Python people (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone mention
>>> Perl.
>>>
>>> Is my perspective right, wrong?
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From 54nc35 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  5 15:38:11 2024
From: 54nc35 at gmail.com (john sances)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 17:38:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago-talk Digest, Vol 185, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.666.1712349134.31081.chicago-talk@pm.org>
References: <mailman.666.1712349134.31081.chicago-talk@pm.org>
Message-ID: <CAP4Rdf=Pnwx_+R5XFhuGZPk602bVOLkrjyNPw+xK_dQfjqU0cw@mail.gmail.com>

This is interesting.

I have worked in probably a dozen or more languages in the last 40+ years.

Two things about Perl that the old heads will know:
Perl make hard things easy;
In Perl, there is more than one way to do it.

I?ve done ibm/mvs assembler, cobol, c, c++, Java, Perl, all sorts of rdbms
variants, etc. ruby, groovy, etc. and more.

So from an old head?s perspective:

I worked in Perl for about 25 years or more, until maybe 9 years ago.
Where I was working 9 years ago (I was there 10 years) I?d say 80% of our
processing was done in Perl.  This was mostly flat file processing, but I
also maintained our timesheet system, which was Perl/cgi.

Where I am now, we are in process of migrating all things to python ( from
SAS).  Been at it a year or more.  I?d say it will take two more years.

 I don?t want to say python sucks, because in my (humble?) opinion Java
sucks much worse, hands down.  BUT?

Python has proceeded to provide this processing environment that satisfies
a fashionable clientele: what we now call data science. Being focused on
that, it has become a sort of special purpose language while persuading
everyone that data science is the only thing that matters.

But python makes easy things hard. This has nothing to do with indentations
over brackets; it really has to do with the ?pythonic? approach to problem
solving in which the ?pythonistas? claim there really is one best solution
to any problem.  Check them out, you will see that mindset.

John Sances
54nc35 at gmail.com
linkedin.com/in/54nc35 <https://www.linkedin.com/in/54nc35>.


On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 3:32?PM <chicago-talk-request at pm.org> wrote:

> Send Chicago-talk mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: What's happening with Perl these days (Jay S)
>    2. Re: What's happening with Perl these days (Chris Hamilton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 14:13:56 -0500
> From: Jay S <me at heyjay.com>
> To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk at pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CANpdWGXNnBDhsTgDOQmHuWRGxQSOufT37mT2KdjU+kE-E78NHg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> maybe one day I'll try to learn Python.
> I always loved perl because it was so simple to do simple stuff quickly
> my understanding is that Python is more formal, and not a quick to rip off
> a quick script
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 10:36?AM Mike Fragassi <mikefrag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This seems more or less correct. My Perl activity at work has become
> > strictly maintenance of existing applications, including adding minor
> > features. We've moved to Python for all new work. A lot of it comes down
> to
> > that it used to be that all the new hires had at least passing experience
> > with Perl; but now, it's Python instead. Slow attrition has left us with
> > just 2 people at all comfortable with Perl, and I'm the only "expert".
> >
> > Incidentally, I was helped *immensely* when my job, for a moment, was
> > willing to fund training; I jumped to take an in-person course from David
> > Beazley, a local who has written/co-written several Python books,
> including
> > O'Reilly's Python Cookbook. (His site is https://www.dabeaz.com/)
> >
> > Speaking for myself, the one thing that Python has, that makes me
> actually
> > angry with Perl for missing, is built-in Exceptions. I will defend Perl's
> > honor that it was not 'line noise' to anyone who tosses out that old
> line,
> > but I never ever ever want to deal with "$@" again.
> >
> > Perl 6 is now "Raku" since 2019, and it seems that existing under its own
> > "brand" is beneficial for both languages. It should have been done years
> > earlier.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 9:56?PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Perl Mongers,
> >> I hope all is well.
> >>
> >> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> >> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
> >>
> >> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of
> >> fizzled out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have
> >> Python people (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone
> mention
> >> Perl.
> >>
> >> Is my perspective right, wrong?
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago-talk mailing list
> >> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> >> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk at pm.org
> > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 15:31:31 -0500
> From: Chris Hamilton <cjhamil at gmail.com>
> To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk at pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
> Message-ID:
>         <CA+H4PxAmUQip9Q=
> rLX0uV-0jXBOJDnnvLkEuBt9syA85deT-Bw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As little more than a consumer of information on this list, I feel like I
> wanted to chime in for once in support of this view. I agree strongly with
> the notion that my role in a company is to take the business needs that
> company has and translate that into technology-driven deliverables that I
> believe best serve those business needs. Choosing the "best" tool for a job
> isn't always a purely objective decision, and there are often plenty of
> tools you can use to accomplish that same purpose. It is not the decision
> of people who consume the outputs of my work to determine for me mechanisms
> that drive those outputs. Their job is to sufficiently define the needs of
> the deliverable (often needing assistance to even do that well, in most
> cases), my job is to deliver on that. Part of that deliverable (as it
> should also be part of the underlying requirements) is for that solution to
> be reasonably maintainable and sufficiently long lasting (and only on this
> very small area might the choice of Perl vs. Non-Perl be a consideration,
> based solely upon available resources -- though even this common sentiment
> is something I don't particularly agree on).
>
> I love Perl. I'm unashamedly an advocate for Perl whenever the topic is
> discussed. I've been building large scale web applications in Perl for
> nearly 20 years. I've also been hearing how Perl is a "dead language" since
> the first time I was exposed to it on the job and was told the application
> I'd be working on was written in Perl. Strangely enough, I'm still building
> greenfield products in Perl to this day and will likely continue to do so
> until something massively changes that makes doing so a less optimal
> approach for me.
>
> Anytime this topic comes arises out and about with non-Perl folks (and even
> a lot of the time with Perl folks) I will continually hear more about why
> using Perl is a terrible choice these days (seemingly regardless of
> whenever "these days" are at the time). Meanwhile, every time I begin
> building something of even moderate complexity with something that *isn't
> *Perl
> I find myself facing situations that would have been so much more readily
> available to accomplish in Perl. For the sake of this discussion, I'm not
> even going to bother coming up with various anecdotal examples (because
> even if I did, that would carry no tangible weight in this argument, as
> they would be purely anecdotal and also possibly even the result of my own
> ignorance in a given specific scenario). The reality is this, from my
> perspective: Perl makes easy things easy to do, but more importantly it
> turns a lot of things that are seemingly *impossible *to do into things
> that can at least be accomplished.
>
> I can find plenty of things in Perl to complain about, but I can also find
> plenty of things about *any* language to complain about.
>
> Do I wish Perl 6 didn't exist (or at least had picked a different name at
> the outset)? Yes. I didn't ring that bell and we (seemingly) can't unring
> that bell. This will go down in history as one of the stupidest marketing
> blunders of all time, imo.
>
> Do I wish Perl was perfect? Sure, stupid question.
>
> Do I think Perl is better than any reasonably comparable language? Hell yes
> I do... and at the very least, it's certainly no worse than any of them.
>
> Python is *fine*. Perl is better.
>
> -Chris
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 11:17?AM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:
>
> > "I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> > decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years."
> >
> > Here's my two cents:  If the entities you serve do not want Perl who
> > cares? What do YOU want? When I work with a company they give me an
> > assignment-- give us X. How I model X, support X until I hand it over to
> > their own internal support department, etc. is *my* business. How I
> handle
> > contact management (Perl), documentation (wiki written in Perl), and even
> > software testing (system I wrote in Perl) is MY business. They get the
> > cake; I keep the pan, spoons, cling wrap, and the ovens. Now I can make
> > more cakes elsewhere. I can even give them away.
> >
> > Perl's strength is that it gives you an actual tool to help you think for
> > yourself. You don't need a company to tell you what software problems to
> > think about. Just as the writer *must* write the programmer *must*
> program.
> > To the devil with what companies want and what some nondescript IT
> > management fool is telling you. What do YOU want to do with the wonderful
> > grey matter residing atop thine head? Solve problems, explore.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2024, 9:56 PM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Perl Mongers,
> >> I hope all is well.
> >>
> >> I'm only lightly technical these days, having moved into a sales role a
> >> decade ago. I haven't really done any programming for years.
> >>
> >> It seems like Perl6 was too big an effort, leaderless, and sort of
> >> fizzled out while Python ascended. Technical folks I sell to all have
> >> Python people (and scala ruby Java(script)) - I never hear anyone
> mention
> >> Perl.
> >>
> >> Is my perspective right, wrong?
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago-talk mailing list
> >> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> >> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk at pm.org
> > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Chicago-talk Digest, Vol 185, Issue 4
> ********************************************
>
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From gatorreina at gmail.com  Sat Apr  6 09:49:27 2024
From: gatorreina at gmail.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2024 11:49:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CAAKpS=7w6Pu9FvZbW+sZNdsbX1Kij4L8XvZHUZXVw8jnRMTusA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAKpS=7w6Pu9FvZbW+sZNdsbX1Kij4L8XvZHUZXVw8jnRMTusA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <220A4A61-7B12-4B8C-997F-B52F5F0AEEB6@gmail.com>

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From andy at petdance.com  Sat Apr  6 18:53:12 2024
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2024 20:53:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <220A4A61-7B12-4B8C-997F-B52F5F0AEEB6@gmail.com>
References: <CAAKpS=7w6Pu9FvZbW+sZNdsbX1Kij4L8XvZHUZXVw8jnRMTusA@mail.gmail.com>
 <220A4A61-7B12-4B8C-997F-B52F5F0AEEB6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <286A39F3-F676-40B4-B963-83DF79D78D60@petdance.com>

I post this not with disdain for Perl, but with love and sadness.

The reason nobody is adopting Perl these days is that it is no longer the best at anything.

Years ago, yes, Perl did stuff you couldn't do anywhere else. Regexes built in! Huge library of code to use! Whip stuff up easy! Network connectivity! etc etc.  Now, everything that Perl used to do better than anyone else is standard in the language.

At this point, if you're starting a green field project, there's no case when you would say "Perl is the best choice to use."  I love Perl, and 20 years ago I pushed to migrate systems to Perl. Today, I think doing that would be malpractice.

At my day job, if I have to write code that doesn't need to use or interface with any of our tons of existing Perl code, I write it in Python.


>> Incidentally, I was helped immensely when my job, for a moment, was willing to fund training; I jumped to take an in-person course from David Beazley, a local who has written/co-written several Python books, including O'Reilly's Python Cookbook. (His site is https://www.dabeaz.com/)

I haven't taken David's classes, but I've loved his Python books all the way back to 1999.  https://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-OTHER-RIDERS/dp/0735709017

Andy

From joel.limardo at forwardphase.com  Sat Apr  6 22:41:38 2024
From: joel.limardo at forwardphase.com (J L)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2024 00:41:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <286A39F3-F676-40B4-B963-83DF79D78D60@petdance.com>
References: <CAAKpS=7w6Pu9FvZbW+sZNdsbX1Kij4L8XvZHUZXVw8jnRMTusA@mail.gmail.com>
 <220A4A61-7B12-4B8C-997F-B52F5F0AEEB6@gmail.com>
 <286A39F3-F676-40B4-B963-83DF79D78D60@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <CAOfjraf1KSAFXUFE4C3GwqtmLdamQO68+x=r9rUbbz3vBDhi_w@mail.gmail.com>

Why has no one here mentioned JavaScript? It is by far more popular than
virtually any language mentioned thus far (proof:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/793628/worldwide-developer-survey-most-used-languages/)
and you can run it on the server. When we talk about language usage,
popularity, and features we fall into a sort of trap. It is looking at the
problem from the wrong end. Let's look at Apple for a second.

Our usage numbers according to the previous link are on par with
Objective-C and about half of Swift, Apple's replacement for it. Apple's
current market cap is 2.6 Trillion dollars. This company uses two languages
that combined barely outpace Microsoft's Visual Basic for Applications
(VBA). So one must admit that market dynamics do not match language usage
or this company should be doing far worse and have dropped these archaic
languages for far more popular alternatives.

I suspect that Apple is doing so well because they are laser focused on
delivering the best products they know how and using their own languages
simply makes sense. The focus is on delivering winning customer experiences
and making certain their tools help them do just that.

If Perl had made mistakes it has really been in the area of not
concentrating in this area. Consider Java. You get a .jar file and run Java
-jar funkyfile.jar and viola it runs. No additional downloads. No compile
steps. It runs. You get instant gratification and lots of it. I have spoken
to Apple users at length. They have no idea whatsoever how any of it works
internally. They don't care how it was written.

More products that people want and love is the answer as far as I can see.
I don't see that Perl needs more programmers to be successful. It needs
products and platforms that default to it.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2024, 8:53 PM Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:

> I post this not with disdain for Perl, but with love and sadness.
>
> The reason nobody is adopting Perl these days is that it is no longer the
> best at anything.
>
> Years ago, yes, Perl did stuff you couldn't do anywhere else. Regexes
> built in! Huge library of code to use! Whip stuff up easy! Network
> connectivity! etc etc.  Now, everything that Perl used to do better than
> anyone else is standard in the language.
>
> At this point, if you're starting a green field project, there's no case
> when you would say "Perl is the best choice to use."  I love Perl, and 20
> years ago I pushed to migrate systems to Perl. Today, I think doing that
> would be malpractice.
>
> At my day job, if I have to write code that doesn't need to use or
> interface with any of our tons of existing Perl code, I write it in Python.
>
>
> >> Incidentally, I was helped immensely when my job, for a moment, was
> willing to fund training; I jumped to take an in-person course from David
> Beazley, a local who has written/co-written several Python books, including
> O'Reilly's Python Cookbook. (His site is https://www.dabeaz.com/)
>
> I haven't taken David's classes, but I've loved his Python books all the
> way back to 1999.
> https://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-OTHER-RIDERS/dp/0735709017
>
> Andy
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From joel.a.berger at gmail.com  Mon Apr 22 07:55:53 2024
From: joel.a.berger at gmail.com (Joel Berger)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:55:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] What's happening with Perl these days
In-Reply-To: <CAOfjraf1KSAFXUFE4C3GwqtmLdamQO68+x=r9rUbbz3vBDhi_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAKpS=7w6Pu9FvZbW+sZNdsbX1Kij4L8XvZHUZXVw8jnRMTusA@mail.gmail.com>
 <220A4A61-7B12-4B8C-997F-B52F5F0AEEB6@gmail.com>
 <286A39F3-F676-40B4-B963-83DF79D78D60@petdance.com>
 <CAOfjraf1KSAFXUFE4C3GwqtmLdamQO68+x=r9rUbbz3vBDhi_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAMA-9OWzOtvtxCF5ckqLNLYJxJy07wcuXuJ2V=tug5iBnYBQQ@mail.gmail.com>

There are some nice things about Python, Exceptions, context managers,
built-in set types. That said, I have have several occasions where pythons'
idiosyncratic ways of doing things meant something that should be easy was
instead hard because I couldn't think up the "one way" that python would
have wanted me to do it. Also Python's toolchain is an absolute nightmare.
Indeed if one thing keeps me from recommending writing new code in python,
its the toolchain (think module installers and environment management). It
really shows how much it matters that a language either get that stuff
right from the start (node, for the most part) or maintain it well
afterwards (Perl).

All that said, I have to say that for writing new code where I won't be the
only one working on it, I have to recommend node these days. Javascript and
node have really made strides in being a "real language" in the past 10
years and I feel like it has many things that feel very perl-ish to me.
Lexical variables, a similar closure model, etc, but with modern stuff like
async/await built in as a first-class feature of the language. I love Perl
and will use it for a long time, but we in the Mojo group have seen the way
the wind is blowing and have created a parallel development of Mojolicious
in node. I'm not saying Perl is dying, but I would recommend people to
hedge their bets.
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From me at heyjay.com  Tue Apr 23 06:17:34 2024
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay S)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 08:17:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] parsing lines
Message-ID: <CANpdWGVKo5JfiE4sfoUE2GSVFZsn4ghymD6fHvADeNYaNKyTww@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I'm looking for an easy script / one liner.

I cut-n-pasted a table inside PDF.
When I paste into excel it throws it all vertical

How can I easily take N lines, and throw them horizontally?
(note I need to do this 1000s of times, so I can't manually transpose in
excel)

Thank you mucho in advance

for example:

Company
Campaign
Name Member Type
Member
Status
Related
Record ID
Member First
Associated
Date
First Name Last Name Title Email Related
Record Owner City State/Province Country
(ACQUIRED)

turns into
Company Campaign Name Member Type Member Status Related Record ID Member
First Associated Date First Name Last Name Title Email Related Record Owner
City State/Province Country (ACQUIRED)
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From joel.limardo at forwardphase.com  Tue Apr 23 07:38:13 2024
From: joel.limardo at forwardphase.com (J L)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 09:38:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] parsing lines
In-Reply-To: <CANpdWGVKo5JfiE4sfoUE2GSVFZsn4ghymD6fHvADeNYaNKyTww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGVKo5JfiE4sfoUE2GSVFZsn4ghymD6fHvADeNYaNKyTww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOfjraet4z5iONZqGpvS_6rLuKMKesnyB5Xkkxhupua-mXAOkA@mail.gmail.com>

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21433364/use-perl-pdl-to-rotate-a-matrix

On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 8:18 AM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:

> Hi, I'm looking for an easy script / one liner.
>
> I cut-n-pasted a table inside PDF.
> When I paste into excel it throws it all vertical
>
> How can I easily take N lines, and throw them horizontally?
> (note I need to do this 1000s of times, so I can't manually transpose in
> excel)
>
> Thank you mucho in advance
>
> for example:
>
> Company
> Campaign
> Name Member Type
> Member
> Status
> Related
> Record ID
> Member First
> Associated
> Date
> First Name Last Name Title Email Related
> Record Owner City State/Province Country
> (ACQUIRED)
>
> turns into
> Company Campaign Name Member Type Member Status Related Record ID Member
> First Associated Date First Name Last Name Title Email Related Record
> Owner City State/Province Country (ACQUIRED)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From dcmertens.perl at gmail.com  Tue Apr 23 08:57:43 2024
From: dcmertens.perl at gmail.com (David Mertens)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 11:57:43 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] parsing lines
In-Reply-To: <CAOfjraet4z5iONZqGpvS_6rLuKMKesnyB5Xkkxhupua-mXAOkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGVKo5JfiE4sfoUE2GSVFZsn4ghymD6fHvADeNYaNKyTww@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOfjraet4z5iONZqGpvS_6rLuKMKesnyB5Xkkxhupua-mXAOkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+4ieYX0=048CskaA=tvsa03D3x7hoe1ft0q4MqU4ydW_8cqpQ@mail.gmail.com>

PDL is absolutely the wrong tool for this. It does not handle strings in
anything resembling a sensible approach. After all, pure perl can handle
thousands of these manipulations just fine and plenty quick.

Jay, what is the potential input into your Perl script/one-liner? A PDF
document? An Excel spreadsheet with a bunch of vertical columns (presumably
not)?

David

On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 10:38?AM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:

>
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21433364/use-perl-pdl-to-rotate-a-matrix
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 8:18 AM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I'm looking for an easy script / one liner.
>>
>> I cut-n-pasted a table inside PDF.
>> When I paste into excel it throws it all vertical
>>
>> How can I easily take N lines, and throw them horizontally?
>> (note I need to do this 1000s of times, so I can't manually transpose in
>> excel)
>>
>> Thank you mucho in advance
>>
>> for example:
>>
>> Company
>> Campaign
>> Name Member Type
>> Member
>> Status
>> Related
>> Record ID
>> Member First
>> Associated
>> Date
>> First Name Last Name Title Email Related
>> Record Owner City State/Province Country
>> (ACQUIRED)
>>
>> turns into
>> Company Campaign Name Member Type Member Status Related Record ID Member
>> First Associated Date First Name Last Name Title Email Related Record
>> Owner City State/Province Country (ACQUIRED)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From me at heyjay.com  Tue Apr 23 10:27:05 2024
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay S)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 12:27:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] parsing lines
In-Reply-To: <CA+4ieYX0=048CskaA=tvsa03D3x7hoe1ft0q4MqU4ydW_8cqpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGVKo5JfiE4sfoUE2GSVFZsn4ghymD6fHvADeNYaNKyTww@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOfjraet4z5iONZqGpvS_6rLuKMKesnyB5Xkkxhupua-mXAOkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+4ieYX0=048CskaA=tvsa03D3x7hoe1ft0q4MqU4ydW_8cqpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANpdWGVZ-axNpoGX__ORV=YvO-qX4_h-hdwS1-7OEBv8U1+wdQ@mail.gmail.com>

my thought was a single column, each row is a column.
8 rows concatenated = a single row

Although when cut-n-paste - there is a lot of stuff that doesn't follow the
8 rows to a line.

Long story short
Someone printed an Excel spreadsheet to PDF (I think this is what happened)
Now I want the spreadsheet, but you can't cut-n-paste the spreadsheet out
of the PDF



On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 10:58?AM David Mertens <dcmertens.perl at gmail.com>
wrote:

> PDL is absolutely the wrong tool for this. It does not handle strings in
> anything resembling a sensible approach. After all, pure perl can handle
> thousands of these manipulations just fine and plenty quick.
>
> Jay, what is the potential input into your Perl script/one-liner? A PDF
> document? An Excel spreadsheet with a bunch of vertical columns (presumably
> not)?
>
> David
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 10:38?AM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21433364/use-perl-pdl-to-rotate-a-matrix
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 8:18 AM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I'm looking for an easy script / one liner.
>>>
>>> I cut-n-pasted a table inside PDF.
>>> When I paste into excel it throws it all vertical
>>>
>>> How can I easily take N lines, and throw them horizontally?
>>> (note I need to do this 1000s of times, so I can't manually transpose in
>>> excel)
>>>
>>> Thank you mucho in advance
>>>
>>> for example:
>>>
>>> Company
>>> Campaign
>>> Name Member Type
>>> Member
>>> Status
>>> Related
>>> Record ID
>>> Member First
>>> Associated
>>> Date
>>> First Name Last Name Title Email Related
>>> Record Owner City State/Province Country
>>> (ACQUIRED)
>>>
>>> turns into
>>> Company Campaign Name Member Type Member Status Related Record ID Member
>>> First Associated Date First Name Last Name Title Email Related Record
>>> Owner City State/Province Country (ACQUIRED)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From joel.limardo at forwardphase.com  Wed Apr 24 10:52:28 2024
From: joel.limardo at forwardphase.com (J L)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 12:52:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] parsing lines
In-Reply-To: <CA+4ieYX0=048CskaA=tvsa03D3x7hoe1ft0q4MqU4ydW_8cqpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGVKo5JfiE4sfoUE2GSVFZsn4ghymD6fHvADeNYaNKyTww@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOfjraet4z5iONZqGpvS_6rLuKMKesnyB5Xkkxhupua-mXAOkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+4ieYX0=048CskaA=tvsa03D3x7hoe1ft0q4MqU4ydW_8cqpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOfjrafW-j8gs8-rGezqa0v8SmYtryPn+WSWZ2ntk2x7gUqStg@mail.gmail.com>

Once upon a time I would endeavor to look up some fine code and help people
solve their Perl problems. I learned better. People need to show me how far
along they've gotten and some evidence that they are trying to actually
learn the language for me to care that much.

Otherwise I am just coding against specifications and they have a name for
that: a job.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 10:58 AM David Mertens <dcmertens.perl at gmail.com>
wrote:

> PDL is absolutely the wrong tool for this. It does not handle strings in
> anything resembling a sensible approach. After all, pure perl can handle
> thousands of these manipulations just fine and plenty quick.
>
> Jay, what is the potential input into your Perl script/one-liner? A PDF
> document? An Excel spreadsheet with a bunch of vertical columns (presumably
> not)?
>
> David
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 10:38?AM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21433364/use-perl-pdl-to-rotate-a-matrix
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 8:18 AM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I'm looking for an easy script / one liner.
>>>
>>> I cut-n-pasted a table inside PDF.
>>> When I paste into excel it throws it all vertical
>>>
>>> How can I easily take N lines, and throw them horizontally?
>>> (note I need to do this 1000s of times, so I can't manually transpose in
>>> excel)
>>>
>>> Thank you mucho in advance
>>>
>>> for example:
>>>
>>> Company
>>> Campaign
>>> Name Member Type
>>> Member
>>> Status
>>> Related
>>> Record ID
>>> Member First
>>> Associated
>>> Date
>>> First Name Last Name Title Email Related
>>> Record Owner City State/Province Country
>>> (ACQUIRED)
>>>
>>> turns into
>>> Company Campaign Name Member Type Member Status Related Record ID Member
>>> First Associated Date First Name Last Name Title Email Related Record
>>> Owner City State/Province Country (ACQUIRED)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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From me at heyjay.com  Wed Apr 24 13:00:21 2024
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay S)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 15:00:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] parsing lines
In-Reply-To: <CAOfjrafW-j8gs8-rGezqa0v8SmYtryPn+WSWZ2ntk2x7gUqStg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpdWGVKo5JfiE4sfoUE2GSVFZsn4ghymD6fHvADeNYaNKyTww@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOfjraet4z5iONZqGpvS_6rLuKMKesnyB5Xkkxhupua-mXAOkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+4ieYX0=048CskaA=tvsa03D3x7hoe1ft0q4MqU4ydW_8cqpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOfjrafW-j8gs8-rGezqa0v8SmYtryPn+WSWZ2ntk2x7gUqStg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANpdWGVvjcu2WD-AZ307qa_5hZXh8Jc-8zWG=gsAcuNoewUtng@mail.gmail.com>

Hi no worries.
Like I said in playing with the data it became harder to do the parsing I
needed.
long story short, I requested (and was given) the data in CSV

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 12:52?PM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:

> Once upon a time I would endeavor to look up some fine code and help
> people solve their Perl problems. I learned better. People need to show me
> how far along they've gotten and some evidence that they are trying to
> actually learn the language for me to care that much.
>
> Otherwise I am just coding against specifications and they have a name for
> that: a job.
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 10:58 AM David Mertens <dcmertens.perl at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> PDL is absolutely the wrong tool for this. It does not handle strings in
>> anything resembling a sensible approach. After all, pure perl can handle
>> thousands of these manipulations just fine and plenty quick.
>>
>> Jay, what is the potential input into your Perl script/one-liner? A PDF
>> document? An Excel spreadsheet with a bunch of vertical columns (presumably
>> not)?
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 10:38?AM J L <joel.limardo at forwardphase.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21433364/use-perl-pdl-to-rotate-a-matrix
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024, 8:18 AM Jay S <me at heyjay.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, I'm looking for an easy script / one liner.
>>>>
>>>> I cut-n-pasted a table inside PDF.
>>>> When I paste into excel it throws it all vertical
>>>>
>>>> How can I easily take N lines, and throw them horizontally?
>>>> (note I need to do this 1000s of times, so I can't manually transpose
>>>> in excel)
>>>>
>>>> Thank you mucho in advance
>>>>
>>>> for example:
>>>>
>>>> Company
>>>> Campaign
>>>> Name Member Type
>>>> Member
>>>> Status
>>>> Related
>>>> Record ID
>>>> Member First
>>>> Associated
>>>> Date
>>>> First Name Last Name Title Email Related
>>>> Record Owner City State/Province Country
>>>> (ACQUIRED)
>>>>
>>>> turns into
>>>> Company Campaign Name Member Type Member Status Related Record ID Member
>>>> First Associated Date First Name Last Name Title Email Related Record
>>>> Owner City State/Province Country (ACQUIRED)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>>>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>>>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk at pm.org
>> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
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