From tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  1 06:59:52 2007
From: tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com (tiger peng)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:59:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Off Topic: Laptop Recommendation
Message-ID: <211042.85535.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Acer's keyboard is good, but its touch pad is really bad, I have to touch a mickey to it. Thinkpad's touch point is great.

----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Jacobus <JJacobus at PonyX.com>
To: chicago-talk at pm.org
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:11:43 PM
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Off Topic: Laptop Recommendation

I know this is off topic, so please don't beat me up.
I've been looking for a replacement for my much loved Micron GX3 
laptop which I've used daily since June 2002! I'm frustrated with the 
way laptops are classified by manufacturers (what if I want an 
"all-purpose, power, ultraportable, desktop replacement"?) The search 
is getting pretty time-consuming. I figured since you're all s/w 
developers like me, I could ask what machines you prefer.
One of my most important criteria is the keyboard. When you spend 
hours pounding out code you need a good keyboard with sculpted keys, 
nice tactile response, properly spaced and somewhat long travel to 
the keyclick. I've tried those flat keys on Macs and Sony and have 
thus ruled those machines out--just can't touch type accurately for 
any length of time. Dell's seem a little cramped to me. HP's keyboard 
seems to be good. Not sure about Gateways or Toshibas. I've never had 
the opportunity to even see an Asus.
Another concern I have is with those 'glassy' screens. Don't you get 
a lot of glare off them especially under office florescent lights?
For what it's worth my other criteria are: XP-pro; 15.4 (or so) inch 
screen with resolution of at least 1400 x 1050; Intel Core 2 Duo; 1-2 
GB memory; 60+GB drive; ATI or nVidia dedicated graphics card. I'm 
finding it really difficult to narrow my search down using the 
selection criteria at websites like notebookreview.com
So, if you care to respond, could you comment on what machines you 
use (or prefer)? A couple grand or more is a big purchase, so I'm 
casting wide net for opinions. Thanks in advance.

_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk




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From lembark at wrkhors.com  Mon Oct  1 13:14:26 2007
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:14:26 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47015522.4070101@wrkhors.com>


> Does anyone have suggestions for Perl training around the chicagoland
> area? Something more advanced than an intro, but not specializing on a
> topic like web frameworks.

Check Stonehenge. They have open classes (or you can
get enough people together to have one).

-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508

From brian.d.foy at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 13:27:48 2007
From: brian.d.foy at gmail.com (brian d foy)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:27:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/28/07, Warren Lindsey <warren.lindsey at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have suggestions for Perl training around the chicagoland
> area? Something more advanced than an intro, but not specializing on a
> topic like web frameworks.

Hi Warren,

Is there someway that Stonehenge can help? Feel free to call me at 503
766 2264 to talk about it.

Thanks,

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
http://www.pair.com/~comdog/

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Oct  2 12:25:20 2007
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:25:20 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Off Topic: Laptop Recommendation
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20070930174311.03192e00@SurplusRecord.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20070930174311.03192e00@SurplusRecord.com>
Message-ID: <47029B20.5070902@wrkhors.com>


I picked up a unit from "generation-X" computers.
They are helpful in selling decent systems without
an O/S if you don't want it (i.e., avoiding the
microsoft tax). Basically, they go to the same
chinese factories that produce Sony, Toshiba,
etc, machines and buy them without logos.

I picked up a 17" box with st'a rosa cpu, 2GB core,
120GB drive, spare battery, and shipping for < $3000.
The high-res (1900x1200) display is useful for
graphics processing, you might not need that high-end
of a display.

They got me the machine quickly and it worked the
first time.

Their web site is:

  http://www.gen-x-pc.com/

My machine is:

  http://www.gen-x-pc.com/note_9260.htm

enjoi

-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508

From JJacobus at PonyX.com  Tue Oct  2 14:17:48 2007
From: JJacobus at PonyX.com (Jim Jacobus)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:17:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Off Topic: Laptop Recommendation
In-Reply-To: <47029B20.5070902@wrkhors.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20070930174311.03192e00@SurplusRecord.com>
	<47029B20.5070902@wrkhors.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20071002161348.03903870@PonyX.com>

Wow. Didn't know about this company before. Gives you a lot of 
options. What o/s did you load?

At 02:25 PM 10/2/2007, you wrote:


>I picked up a unit from "generation-X" computers.
>They are helpful in selling decent systems without
>an O/S if you don't want it (i.e., avoiding the
>microsoft tax). Basically, they go to the same
>chinese factories that produce Sony, Toshiba,
>etc, machines and buy them without logos.
>
>I picked up a 17" box with st'a rosa cpu, 2GB core,
>120GB drive, spare battery, and shipping for < $3000.
>The high-res (1900x1200) display is useful for
>graphics processing, you might not need that high-end
>of a display.
>
>They got me the machine quickly and it worked the
>first time.
>
>Their web site is:
>
>   http://www.gen-x-pc.com/
>
>My machine is:
>
>   http://www.gen-x-pc.com/note_9260.htm
>
>enjoi
>
>--
>Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
>Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
>lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508
>_______________________________________________
>Chicago-talk mailing list
>Chicago-talk at pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 05:30:08 2007
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 07:30:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <841e880a0710030530u1ca4f051q4e5c38ce9786c892@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Brian,

Of course, Stonehenge was my first suggestion.  I have a training
requirment to meet at work by end of year.  I was actually planning on
attending some veritas cluster training but it's been turned down
because of a travel freeze.

Is there a class schedule for the intermediate class here in chicago?
How often do you do classes?

Thanks,
Warren

On 10/1/07, brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/28/07, Warren Lindsey <warren.lindsey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Does anyone have suggestions for Perl training around the chicagoland
> > area? Something more advanced than an intro, but not specializing on a
> > topic like web frameworks.
>
> Hi Warren,
>
> Is there someway that Stonehenge can help? Feel free to call me at 503
> 766 2264 to talk about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> http://www.pair.com/~comdog/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From robert at robertblackwell.com  Wed Oct  3 14:18:09 2007
From: robert at robertblackwell.com (Robert Blackwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:18:09 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The Pittsburgh Perl Workshop 2007 is October 13-14,
	2007.
Message-ID: <D83800CD-0052-4D3C-900A-A599CE8109AD@robertblackwell.com>

(Please feel free to forward...)


The 2007 Pittsburgh Perl Workshop is only 10 days away.

The Pittsburgh Perl Mongers are pleased to announce The PITTSBURGH  
PERL WORKSHOP, a two-day, low-cost conference on Saturday and Sunday,  
October 13-14, 2007.

The Pittsburgh Perl Workshop is an annual conference dedicated to the  
Perl programming language. In 2006, the Pittsburgh Perl Mongers  
hosted the first Perl Workshop based in the United States. This year,  
the Workshop has been expanded to two days. The 2007 Workshop is  
structured as a series of short lectures, but the atmosphere is low  
key and engaging: the perfect combination to open your mind and then  
cram it full of good stuff.

After last year's conference you gave us lots of feedback, and we  
listened.
* The workshop was expanded to a two-day event to allow for more  
talks, birds-of-a-feather sessions, and social interactions.
* A one-day course for programmers with little or no Perl experience?- 
taught by a world-class Perl trainer?-was added.
* The schedule has been improved to allow you more flexibility in  
choosing sessions to attend.

Lightning Talks

There?s still time to get a third of your fifteen minutes of fame!  
Submit your lightning talk today. The deadline for early acceptance  
is one week before the conference (October 6). But if you have an  
idea on the first day of the conference, we?re holding at least two  
lightning talk spots until the end of that day. However, you have a  
much better chance of being accepted if submit your talk now.

Stay up to date with everything that's going on with the Perl  
Workshop by subscribing to our RSS feed at http://pghpw.org/ppw2007/ 
atom/en.xml.

If you are coming to the Friday Social, RSVP at http://pghpw.org/ 
ppw2007/wiki?node=Friday%20Social.

Full details are on the Workshop Web site at http://pghpw.org.

Hope to see you there.
Robert Blackwell


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Oct  4 09:10:17 2007
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:10:17 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Off Topic: Laptop Recommendation
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20071002161348.03903870@PonyX.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20070930174311.03192e00@SurplusRecord.com>	<47029B20.5070902@wrkhors.com>
	<6.2.5.6.2.20071002161348.03903870@PonyX.com>
Message-ID: <47051069.8090204@wrkhors.com>


> Wow. Didn't know about this company before. Gives you a lot of
> options. What o/s did you load?

Gentoo 2007.0 base w/ gentoo-sources kernel. I'm
playing around with the "suspend" kernel but the
time required for a cold restart is low enough
(about 30 seconds round trip) that it isn't all
that necessary.

<http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-kernel.xml>

enjoi

-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Oct  4 09:11:17 2007
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:11:17 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0710030530u1ca4f051q4e5c38ce9786c892@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>	<2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<841e880a0710030530u1ca4f051q4e5c38ce9786c892@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470510A5.1070508@wrkhors.com>


> Of course, Stonehenge was my first suggestion.  I have a training
> requirment to meet at work by end of year.  I was actually planning on
> attending some veritas cluster training but it's been turned down
> because of a travel freeze.

Might also want to see about the upcoming weekend
in Pittsburg. They might have something that would
work for you.


-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508

From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 11:35:08 2007
From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:35:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <470510A5.1070508@wrkhors.com>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<841e880a0710030530u1ca4f051q4e5c38ce9786c892@mail.gmail.com>
	<470510A5.1070508@wrkhors.com>
Message-ID: <49d805d70710041135g3c177e09vfe8da906177dec80@mail.gmail.com>

> Might also want to see about the upcoming weekend
> in Pittsburg. They might have something that would
> work for you.

London.pm did a "Teach-In" over the course of four Saturdays.  I'm not
sure if the event was a paid event or a free one; however, something
like that might be good for the Chicago area on occasion.  Anyone
interested?

From jon at jrock.us  Thu Oct  4 13:49:33 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:49:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70710041135g3c177e09vfe8da906177dec80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>	<2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>	<841e880a0710030530u1ca4f051q4e5c38ce9786c892@mail.gmail.com>	<470510A5.1070508@wrkhors.com>
	<49d805d70710041135g3c177e09vfe8da906177dec80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470551DD.7010409@jrock.us>

Joshua McAdams wrote:
>> Might also want to see about the upcoming weekend
>> in Pittsburg. They might have something that would
>> work for you.
>>     
>
> London.pm did a "Teach-In" over the course of four Saturdays.  I'm not
> sure if the event was a paid event or a free one; however, something
> like that might be good for the Chicago area on occasion.  Anyone
> interested?

It was free, and certainly was a good idea.  It would be nice to have
some Perl-related activity to fill the void between PPW and Frozen Perl :)

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway


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From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 14:34:14 2007
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (warren.lindsey at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 16:34:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <470551DD.7010409@jrock.us>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<841e880a0710030530u1ca4f051q4e5c38ce9786c892@mail.gmail.com>
	<470510A5.1070508@wrkhors.com>
	<49d805d70710041135g3c177e09vfe8da906177dec80@mail.gmail.com>
	<470551DD.7010409@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <841e880a0710041434h3ec627c3xd86f10958f7c28b9@mail.gmail.com>

So it sounds like there aren't many options in chicago besides stonehenge.

On 10/4/07, Jonathan Rockway <jon at jrock.us> wrote:
> Joshua McAdams wrote:
> >> Might also want to see about the upcoming weekend
> >> in Pittsburg. They might have something that would
> >> work for you.
> >>
> >
> > London.pm did a "Teach-In" over the course of four Saturdays.  I'm not
> > sure if the event was a paid event or a free one; however, something
> > like that might be good for the Chicago area on occasion.  Anyone
> > interested?
>
> It was free, and certainly was a good idea.  It would be nice to have
> some Perl-related activity to fill the void between PPW and Frozen Perl :)
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
>
>

From orders at siraim.com  Thu Oct  4 14:58:54 2007
From: orders at siraim.com (Orders Guy)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 16:58:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] advanced perl training in chicagoland
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0710041434h3ec627c3xd86f10958f7c28b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0709280713r7e4b5c5auaf30390e8c4e04f2@mail.gmail.com>	<2715accf0710011327j3488ceefxca04b7140432d3f1@mail.gmail.com>	<841e880a0710030530u1ca4f051q4e5c38ce9786c892@mail.gmail.com>	<470510A5.1070508@wrkhors.com>	<49d805d70710041135g3c177e09vfe8da906177dec80@mail.gmail.com>	<470551DD.7010409@jrock.us>
	<841e880a0710041434h3ec627c3xd86f10958f7c28b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4705621E.1050501@siraim.com>

Sun usually has a course or two downtown at their offices...

warren.lindsey at gmail.com wrote:
> So it sounds like there aren't many options in chicago besides stonehenge.
>
> On 10/4/07, Jonathan Rockway <jon at jrock.us> wrote:
>   
>> Joshua McAdams wrote:
>>     
>>>> Might also want to see about the upcoming weekend
>>>> in Pittsburg. They might have something that would
>>>> work for you.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> London.pm did a "Teach-In" over the course of four Saturdays.  I'm not
>>> sure if the event was a paid event or a free one; however, something
>>> like that might be good for the Chicago area on occasion.  Anyone
>>> interested?
>>>       
>> It was free, and certainly was a good idea.  It would be nice to have
>> some Perl-related activity to fill the void between PPW and Frozen Perl :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jonathan Rockway
>>
>>
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>   

From jon at jrock.us  Sun Oct  7 00:19:43 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 02:19:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Perl Workshop 2007?
Message-ID: <4708888F.7000906@jrock.us>

At the Perl lunch on Friday, some proposals for a workshop in December
were floated (since it's almost 4 months between PPW and Frozen Perl,
and who can go without a Perl conference for that long!?).  Here were
the ideas:

* A 1 or 2 day mini-conference at PFX (or Hacklab? in Pilsen).  This
would be free if we can get presenters for free.

* A hackathon at the youth hostel downtown.  Perhaps we could do some
talks too.

* Paid, open-enrollment training by Stonehenge at a hotel downtown.

I would like to do something that is Friday/Saturday/Sunday since that
is long enough to convince people from other cities to show up.  My pipe
dream is a 3 day hackathon, where half the day (or so) is open hacking,
and the other half is structured talks.  That might be a pain to
organize, though, so I'm interested in other ideas.  The idea is to keep
it interesting, educational, low-cost, close to downtown, and easy to
organize (since most of us are busy organizing YAPC). 

BTW, the idea that inspired this was London's Perl Teach-In and LPW:
http://london.pm.org/teach-in/,
http://conferences.yapceurope.org/lpw2007/.  Apparently they are
expecting 200 people!  Awesome!

Anyway, your feedback would be appreciated.  What are you interested
in?  What would you like to do to help?  Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway
 


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From andy at petdance.com  Sun Oct  7 11:52:17 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 13:52:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tuesday's Chicago.pm meeting will be short and/or
	boring unless YOU help
Message-ID: <C8EBAB2B-A46F-4CEE-B4DB-A1904E4B51EC@petdance.com>

Our next suburban meeting is on Tuesday, and we have exactly one  
person (me) who will be talking about tools.  Sounds like it will  
last about 15-20 minutes, and then we're done.  There's only one way  
to solve this problem: Other people need to contribute.

Please let me know if you'd like to talk about the tools you use.   
Only YOU can save Chicago.PM meetings from lack of content.

Thanks,
xoxo,
Andy

     
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
               Chicago Perl Mongers / UniForum Meeting Announcement
     
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
        Topic: Chicago Perl Mongers Tool Expo
    Presenter: You!
    Moderator: Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com>
    Date/Time: Tuesday, October 9th, 2007, 7:00 PM
     Location: IIT-Rice Campus, 201 East Loop Rd, Wheaton, IL
    Afterward: Dinner at CozyMel's <http://www.cozymels.com/ 
store_wheaton.htm>
     
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--

We'll be sharing the tools that we use for Perl programming.  Anything
that helps you do your job is worth mentioning, and we'd like you to  
talk
about it.

Andy Lester will be talking about ack, his grep replacement, and
OpenKomodo, which just got release as open source.  Now we need YOUR  
help.

What tools do you use?  vim?  emacs?  TextMate? BBEdit?  Eclipse? What
about other tools, like Ant?  CruiseControl?  We want to hear from you.
A 10-15 minute demo is all you need to do to help spread the love.  We
especially want to hear from the UniForum people!

If you'd like to talk about your favorite tool, let Andy Lester know at
andy at petdance.com.  Even if you don't have a laptop to do a  
presentation
on, we can work something out.


As with all Chicago Perl Mongers meetings, everyone is welcome,
whether or not you consider yourself a member. We look forward to
seeing you there!

Questions about this meeting?  Ask on the chicago-talk at pm.org mailing
list, or send email to andy at petdance dot com.  You can also see a  
list
of past and upcoming meetings at http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/.


--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 13:12:38 2007
From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 15:12:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Perl Workshop 2007?
In-Reply-To: <4708888F.7000906@jrock.us>
References: <4708888F.7000906@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <49d805d70710071312i724d4e44y9f63d9b767a5ee82@mail.gmail.com>

> Anyway, your feedback would be appreciated.  What are you interested
> in?  What would you like to do to help?  Thanks in advance!

Sounds like something that TPF might provide a grant for.  I've
contacted Hosteling International for pricing.  They have meeting
rooms that can accommodate 60 people.  That's seems like a big enough
place for a hack-a-thon.

From a.wong2.nu at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 19:06:19 2007
From: a.wong2.nu at gmail.com (Tony Wong)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:06:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Perl Workshop 2007?
In-Reply-To: <4708888F.7000906@jrock.us>
References: <4708888F.7000906@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <334a3ab20710071906r2e17a1bfs376a391399856dd4@mail.gmail.com>

All of these ideas are great. Since I couldn't make it to YAPC this
year and I will not be able to go to Pittsburgh, having something in
Chicago would be fantastic.

I'd be very glad to lend a hand with whatever needs to be done.

Tony

> * A 1 or 2 day mini-conference at PFX (or Hacklab? in Pilsen).  This
> would be free if we can get presenters for free.
>
> * A hackathon at the youth hostel downtown.  Perhaps we could do some
> talks too.
>
> * Paid, open-enrollment training by Stonehenge at a hotel downtown.
>
> I would like to do something that is Friday/Saturday/Sunday since that
> is long enough to convince people from other cities to show up.  My pipe
> dream is a 3 day hackathon, where half the day (or so) is open hacking,
> and the other half is structured talks.  That might be a pain to
> organize, though, so I'm interested in other ideas.  The idea is to keep
> it interesting, educational, low-cost, close to downtown, and easy to
> organize (since most of us are busy organizing YAPC).
>
> BTW, the idea that inspired this was London's Perl Teach-In and LPW:
> http://london.pm.org/teach-in/,
> http://conferences.yapceurope.org/lpw2007/.  Apparently they are
> expecting 200 people!  Awesome!
>
> Anyway, your feedback would be appreciated.  What are you interested
> in?  What would you like to do to help?  Thanks in advance!
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>

From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 10:38:11 2007
From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:38:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fwd: Thanks for your interest in Hostelling
	International Chicago
In-Reply-To: <001d01c809dc$c86b7600$ca01a8c0@EmilyLENOVO>
References: <AcdfRA+AXpIvL1GnTEefnI4NCr9MqAAAX7YwCHC7daAAACGMEAcarIigGxo5j8A=>
	<001d01c809dc$c86b7600$ca01a8c0@EmilyLENOVO>
Message-ID: <49d805d70710081038u19ab8942j88a9530faf5fef54@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like HI Chicago is an option for a weekend hack-a-thon.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Emily Paxson <epaxson at hichicago.org>
Date: Oct 8, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: Thanks for your interest in Hostelling International Chicago
To: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com






Hi Mr. McAdams,



Thank you for your interest in Hostelling International Chicago! I'm
so glad to hear of your interest in bringing a group to stay here in
December. We do have availability the weekend of December 14-16. We
are a great hostel in the heart of downtown Chicago, just blocks from
the Art Institute, Grant Park, Millennium Park, Museum Campus and the
Magnificent Mile. We are also within steps of all major bus and train
lines to get you to any other place in the city that you wish to
visit. Do you know what your plans are for while you're in the city? I
would be more than happy to offer you recommendations of things to do
while you are here. We have discounts to many area attractions, such
as the Sears Tower, Hancock Observatory, IMAX Theatre at Navy Pier,
Museum of Contemporary Art, Untouchables Gangster Tours, walking tours
with the Chicago Architecture Foundation, bike tours with Bobby's Bike
Hike, and river tours with Chicago from the Lake. We also have
discounts to Stefani's Tuscany Caf? for a great meal or Kingston Mines
if you like blues.



Rates range from $27 to $33/person/night plus tax, depending on room
type. Some rooms have an en suite bath ($33-$31) and others have a
shared bath in the hall ($29-$27). Please reference which room type
you would prefer.  The rooms are separated by gender, and we try to
keep groups in rooms to themselves, with no outside travelers. The
Hostel offers a continental breakfast for each guest. You also have
the option of storing your own food and making it in our
state-of-the-art kitchen.





In order to confirm a reservation with us, I will need you to fill out
a group contract and return a signed copy to us along with a 50%
deposit. Your final balance along with your final numbers is due 14
business days prior to arrival. Once you are ready to book, I can
prepare a contract for you and email it as an attachment. You will
then have 2 weeks to return the contract to us with a deposit in order
to guarantee your dates and rates. If you have any questions or
concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to
hearing back from you soon.



Best regards,

Emily





Emily Paxson

Group Sales Manager at Hostelling International Chicago

24 E. Congress Pkwy, Chicago, IL 60605-1226 USA

epaxson at hichicago.org

direct: 312-583-2216

Fax: 312-360-0313

www.hichicago.org



We bring the world to Chicago!



Click here to sign up for our free e-newsletter!
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From andy at petdance.com  Mon Oct  8 10:59:16 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:59:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
Message-ID: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>

I believe we are now seeing the negative impact of having a separate  
windycity.pm mailing list: Those who are only subscribed to  
windycity.pm and not chicago.pm, or vice versa, don't know what is  
going on in the other list while discussing this hackathon idea.

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From adam at battleaxe.net  Mon Oct  8 11:08:41 2007
From: adam at battleaxe.net (Adam Israel)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:08:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <c8f549b00710081108o59dc5407x38147febfc52f2de@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't even know there was a windycity.pm. Off to subscribe now, thanks.

-Adam

On 10/8/07, Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:
> I believe we are now seeing the negative impact of having a separate
> windycity.pm mailing list: Those who are only subscribed to
> windycity.pm and not chicago.pm, or vice versa, don't know what is
> going on in the other list while discussing this hackathon idea.
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>

From andy at petdance.com  Mon Oct  8 11:33:48 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:33:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <c8f549b00710081108o59dc5407x38147febfc52f2de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<c8f549b00710081108o59dc5407x38147febfc52f2de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071008183348.GA14543@petdance.com>

On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 01:08:41PM -0500, Adam Israel (adam at battleaxe.net) wrote:
> I didn't even know there was a windycity.pm. Off to subscribe now, thanks.

Thing is, Adam, my point was that there doesn't need to be a separate
list.  We don't need to have two lists when it's largely overlap.  It's
unnecessarily segregated.

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From chicago.pm at galumph.com  Mon Oct  8 12:04:07 2007
From: chicago.pm at galumph.com (Elliot Shank)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:04:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <20071008183348.GA14543@petdance.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>	<c8f549b00710081108o59dc5407x38147febfc52f2de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071008183348.GA14543@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <470A7F27.9040105@galumph.com>

Andy Lester wrote:
> Thing is, Adam, my point was that there doesn't need to be a separate
> list.  We don't need to have two lists when it's largely overlap. 
> It's unnecessarily segregated.

Ummm... exactly how much traffic does that other list get?  I count a whopping grand total of 28 messages since June 1st, and the vast majority of them are duplicates of announcements included here.

Just ignore it Andy.  There's nothing there worth worrying about.

From e.ellington at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 12:06:27 2007
From: e.ellington at gmail.com (Eric Ellington)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:06:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <20071008183348.GA14543@petdance.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<c8f549b00710081108o59dc5407x38147febfc52f2de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071008183348.GA14543@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <cf13ea7e0710081206n4539edckccadbecd499ae2e@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that it has been a seemingly unnecessary segregation. However,
as a lurker on these lists I have yet to pipe up about it. I see Andy
and others who say they are from the burbs all the time at city
functions. Who knows maybe one day there will be something cool enough
to make me go way out to Weaton.

On 10/8/07, Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 01:08:41PM -0500, Adam Israel (adam at battleaxe.net) wrote:
> > I didn't even know there was a windycity.pm. Off to subscribe now, thanks.
>
> Thing is, Adam, my point was that there doesn't need to be a separate
> list.  We don't need to have two lists when it's largely overlap.  It's
> unnecessarily segregated.
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


-- 
Eric Ellington
e.ellington at gmail.com

From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 17:11:54 2007
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:11:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>

I thought the reason the list was split was because there were two
groups of Perl Mongers in the Chicagoland area:

1-Chicago.pm covers Chicago and the suburbs
2-WindyCity.pm covers the City of Chicago

Which is comprised of three groups of people:

1-People who don't want to go to the city.
2-People who don't want to go to the burbs.
3-People who will go anywhere.

As such, you should subscribe accordingly.

On 10/8/07, Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:
> I believe we are now seeing the negative impact of having a separate
> windycity.pm mailing list: Those who are only subscribed to
> windycity.pm and not chicago.pm, or vice versa, don't know what is
> going on in the other list while discussing this hackathon idea.
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From jim at jimandkoka.com  Mon Oct  8 17:16:36 2007
From: jim at jimandkoka.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:16:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>

The concept that the list was split because there are two groups of
perl mongers was declared by fiat.

I don't see the point. Hell, even that breakdown is arbitrary and silly.

North side or south side?

Hell, north suburbs or south suburbs? I went to the get togethers in
Vernon Hills all the time 'cuz it was crazy convenient for me.
Wheaton? Not so much.

I mean, how many people are there on the list? The site lists 19
(unless I miscounted). Let's assume that that's wildly inaccurate and
only 1/3rd of the users registered. So we have 60 people. Hell, let's
say it's 100 people.

How many mailing lists do 100 people need to coordinate the same information?

I'm not going to subscribe to multiple local lists just to get
duplicate posts of the same messages, the same questions, and the same
events.

The split was silly.

-Jim.....

On 10/8/07, Warren Lindsey <warren.lindsey at gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought the reason the list was split was because there were two
> groups of Perl Mongers in the Chicagoland area:
>
> 1-Chicago.pm covers Chicago and the suburbs
> 2-WindyCity.pm covers the City of Chicago
>
> Which is comprised of three groups of people:
>
> 1-People who don't want to go to the city.
> 2-People who don't want to go to the burbs.
> 3-People who will go anywhere.
>
> As such, you should subscribe accordingly.
>
> On 10/8/07, Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:
> > I believe we are now seeing the negative impact of having a separate
> > windycity.pm mailing list: Those who are only subscribed to
> > windycity.pm and not chicago.pm, or vice versa, don't know what is
> > going on in the other list while discussing this hackathon idea.
> >
> > --
> > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From andy at petdance.com  Mon Oct  8 17:19:36 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:19:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>


On Oct 8, 2007, at 7:16 PM, Jim Thomason wrote:

>> 1-People who don't want to go to the city.
>> 2-People who don't want to go to the burbs.
>> 3-People who will go anywhere.

The Chicago Perl community is more than just who will attend which  
meeting.  What about questions people have about Perl?  Organizing  
events like YAPC?  etc etc etc?  If Chicago.PM was nothing more than  
meetings, sure, it would make sense.  But it's not, and it doesn't.

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 17:59:39 2007
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:59:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>

It's not just split lists that cause this, it is split groups.

Two groups and two lists is silly.  We should just have one group and
alternate months in different locations.  Isn't that how it worked
when it was Chicago.pm and Uniforum meetings?  At some point, the
Uniforum meeting became the dual Chicago.pm meeting.  Wasn't Uniforum
more than just Perl?

I don't attend alot of meetings, but I've attended them at different
venues.  Location is not important to me, but scheduling of a meeting
so that I can get there in time is.  I will attend a meeting anywhere
within an hour of Chicago, if the topic is interesting and I can get
out of work in time to reach that destination.


On 10/8/07, Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 7:16 PM, Jim Thomason wrote:
>
> >> 1-People who don't want to go to the city.
> >> 2-People who don't want to go to the burbs.
> >> 3-People who will go anywhere.
>
> The Chicago Perl community is more than just who will attend which
> meeting.  What about questions people have about Perl?  Organizing
> events like YAPC?  etc etc etc?  If Chicago.PM was nothing more than
> meetings, sure, it would make sense.  But it's not, and it doesn't.
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From andy at petdance.com  Mon Oct  8 18:05:52 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:05:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C837CE11-6149-4F86-94E4-8EDA450CC6F0@petdance.com>


On Oct 8, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Warren Lindsey wrote:

> Two groups and two lists is silly.  We should just have one group and
> alternate months in different locations.

We have exactly what you're saying.

We have one group, and we have meetings in alternate locations, where  
the 2nd Tuesday is in the suburbs, and the 4th Tuesday is in the city.


--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From mrnicksgirl at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 18:12:48 2007
From: mrnicksgirl at gmail.com (Nola Stowe)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:12:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <C837CE11-6149-4F86-94E4-8EDA450CC6F0@petdance.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C837CE11-6149-4F86-94E4-8EDA450CC6F0@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <43e95380710081812u40c05a04t6df99deb3e0dab90@mail.gmail.com>

The list was created mainly because my annoucements for Perl Lunch
were rejected to the annoucelist.

I didnt want to send to the chatter list because there was only a
small number interested anyways.

Simple as that.


On 10/8/07, Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Warren Lindsey wrote:
>
> > Two groups and two lists is silly.  We should just have one group and
> > alternate months in different locations.
>
> We have exactly what you're saying.
>
> We have one group, and we have meetings in alternate locations, where
> the 2nd Tuesday is in the suburbs, and the 4th Tuesday is in the city.
>
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


-- 
http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl
http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun

From jim at jimandkoka.com  Mon Oct  8 18:17:00 2007
From: jim at jimandkoka.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:17:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <43e95380710081812u40c05a04t6df99deb3e0dab90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C837CE11-6149-4F86-94E4-8EDA450CC6F0@petdance.com>
	<43e95380710081812u40c05a04t6df99deb3e0dab90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70710081817o2db7398eod22afdd43723ae5c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/8/07, Nola Stowe <mrnicksgirl at gmail.com> wrote:
> The list was created mainly because my annoucements for Perl Lunch
> were rejected to the annoucelist.
>
> I didnt want to send to the chatter list because there was only a
> small number interested anyways.
>
> Simple as that.

This sounds like an extraordinarily complicated solution for a simple problem.

Alternative: Post lunch announcements to the Chicago.pm chatter list.
With a reasonable subject ("Let's do lunch!") I won't even open it.
Assuming it hits at the same time as a bunch of other messages I'm
archiving unread, it's not even any additional work for me ("Select
all" -> "Archive").

Trying to create a separate group with a separate list just for the
occasional lunch email seems like overengineering to me.

-Jim.....

From andy at petdance.com  Mon Oct  8 18:17:01 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:17:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <43e95380710081812u40c05a04t6df99deb3e0dab90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C837CE11-6149-4F86-94E4-8EDA450CC6F0@petdance.com>
	<43e95380710081812u40c05a04t6df99deb3e0dab90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71BF0D9B-6793-44D8-8E5B-BAA9F041F023@petdance.com>


On Oct 8, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Nola Stowe wrote:

> The list was created mainly because my annoucements for Perl Lunch
> were rejected to the annoucelist.

So rather than furthering the misconception that windycity.pm ne  
chicago.pm, why not create a list that is chicago-pm-social, or  
something similar?  Where it's inclusive, not exclusive?

Better yet, how about saying "Hey, Andy, my announcements for Perl  
Lunch keep getting rejected, can we do something about that?"

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From ccf3 at mindspring.com  Mon Oct  8 18:34:27 2007
From: ccf3 at mindspring.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:34:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf70710081817o2db7398eod22afdd43723ae5c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>	<1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>	<841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>	<C837CE11-6149-4F86-94E4-8EDA450CC6F0@petdance.com>	<43e95380710081812u40c05a04t6df99deb3e0dab90@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081817o2db7398eod22afdd43723ae5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470ADAA3.70404@mindspring.com>

Jim Thomason wrote:
> On 10/8/07, Nola Stowe <mrnicksgirl at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> The list was created mainly because my annoucements for Perl Lunch
>> were rejected to the annoucelist.
>>
>> I didnt want to send to the chatter list because there was only a
>> small number interested anyways.
>>
>> Simple as that.
>>     
>
> This sounds like an extraordinarily complicated solution for a simple problem.
>   
It appears to be a simple solution which has worked rather well.
The announcements are well targeted, and do not bounce.

Clyde

From frag at ripco.com  Tue Oct  9 08:09:18 2007
From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:09:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
References: <8A9D77F1-43A2-46EA-A9C5-63C7DC23FEBB@petdance.com>
	<841e880a0710081711t2140b87fi897d665d8c075bfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<5cfdfaf70710081716qefbd775oe99385a82ab7c425@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F4FB688-E073-46D3-84F1-63EE408D97D1@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710090851150.9502@shell3>


I've got to agree that the list splitting was not a good idea. (Among 
other things, no one told me about the new list for a while; I saw no 
public posting of the list's creation to Chicago-talk.  I still don't 
see anything like that; while newcomers have been turning up on 
Chicago-talk, are they subscribing to WindyCity-pm?)  But then I also 
don't like having separate *-announce lists in the first place.  It 
would be one thing if the list had the traffic of perl5-porters, long 
inane threads with no relevance to Perl, or trolling problems, but we 
don't.  (Except for the occasional meta thread, like this.)

In any case, as an example of the problem with multiple lists, some of 
the posts about the forthcoming hackathon are only getting sent to 
WindyCity-pm instead of Chicago-talk, which is a bad idea since a 
hackathon would concern more than just the people downtown.  I suppose 
it beats multiple copies of each email for those of us subscribed to 
both, but it should be all on a single general unmoderated list that 
covers the whole area, which seems to be Chicago-talk. (I mean, no one 
actually has approval/rejection power for posts on Chicago-talk, right?)

My preferred solutions would be one of the following:

1. "WindyCity-pm" list should be strictly for downtown announcements, in 
which case it would be better off rechristened WindyCity-announce for 
clarity.  Talk planning for forthcoming downtown events (hackathon, 
Stonehenge classes, etc.) should be kept on the Chicago-talk list until 
an actual announcement is ready.  Whether WindyCity-announce is open or 
has a moderator granting approval doesn't matter much unless the list 
starts to be abused.

2. One Big List.  You yourself indicate announcements by slapping 
[ANNOUNCE] to the start of the Subject: when you mail.  No gatekeeping. 
People who don't like chatter are offered a hand with email filtering 
recipes.

-- Mike F.

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Tue Oct  9 10:21:40 2007
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:21:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The bummer of split lists
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0710081759l6ef8628cm5550d916e1f8f3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF41F61EB8.C881E18C-ON8625736F.005F3F3C-8625736F.005F5B0D@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Hmmm, this rings a bell

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-07.htm

REG:
Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are 
the fucking Judean People's Front.
P.F.J.:
Yeah...
JUDITH:
Splitters.
P.F.J.:
Splitters...
FRANCIS:
And the Judean Popular People's Front.
P.F.J.:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA:
And the People's Front of Judea.
P.F.J.:
Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG:
What?
LORETTA:
The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
REG:
We're the People's Front of Judea!
LORETTA:
Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
REG:
People's Front! C-huh.
FRANCIS:
Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
REG:
He's over there.
P.F.J.:
Splitter!

a

Andy Bach
Systems Mangler
Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932

Wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in
New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. And radio operates
exactly the same way. The only difference is that there is no cat.
 --Albert Einstein (explaining radio)

From andy at petdance.com  Wed Oct 17 12:56:16 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:56:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hacking your printer
Message-ID: <29CBA641-52CA-4B59-98DF-AF8466179DE7@petdance.com>

Chicago.PM's own Yaakov Sloman (OK, he's in Indiana, but we're the  
closest he has) is on Boing Boing today with his hack to change the  
message on your HP printer.

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/17/howto-change-the-pri.html

xoxo,
Andyu

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Wed Oct 17 17:01:20 2007
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:01:20 -0700
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hacking your printer
In-Reply-To: <29CBA641-52CA-4B59-98DF-AF8466179DE7@petdance.com> (Andy
	Lester's message of "Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:56:16 -0500")
References: <29CBA641-52CA-4B59-98DF-AF8466179DE7@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <867illnve7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Andy" == Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> writes:

Andy> Chicago.PM's own Yaakov Sloman (OK, he's in Indiana, but we're the  
Andy> closest he has) is on Boing Boing today with his hack to change the  
Andy> message on your HP printer.

Andy> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/17/howto-change-the-pri.html

It's too bad he says "stdin" when he means "the command line".  Oh well.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From wsmith at etc.com  Sat Oct 20 15:22:03 2007
From: wsmith at etc.com (wsmith at etc.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2007 22:22:03 -0000
Subject: [Chicago-talk] UniForum: Old Pentiums
Message-ID: <02601EDA-0F99-4C52-94B4-40458AB402AC@etc.com>

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-------
                      How to Revive an Old Pentium

                             Howard Fosdick

                Tuesday, October 23rd 2007, 7:00-9:00pm
  Illinois Institute of Technology, Rice Campus, Wheaton, IL, Room 103

Abstract
--------
This presentation will be about how to use older PC's to get that  
something
else done on a computer without spending a lot of money.

1. What you can do with older PCs
2. How to take mature Pentiums and make them useful
3. Where to get a free computer!
4. What you can use that old computer in your basement for.
5. What operating systems (and versions) to install
6. Where to get all the free software you'll want -- to do ANYTHING  
you want
7. How to judge what software is appropriate to run on various mature  
Pentiums
8. How to "anonymize" your old PC before giving it away to charity

Speaker Bio
-----------
Howard Fosdick is an independent DBA consultant in the Chicago area who
works hands-on with Oracle databases.  He's also advised software and
hardware vendors about the database market and technologies.

Getting There
-------------
The next meeting of UniForum Chicago will be from 7:00 pm to 9:00 pm
on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 at the Illinois Institute of Technology
Rice campus.  The address of the meeting facility is:

         IIT's Rice Campus
         Room 103
         201 East Loop Road,
         Wheaton, Illinois 60187

Take I-88 to the Naperville Road exit.  Go North on Naperville Road
to Butterfield/Rt. 56.  Turn right on Butterfield and proceed East to
the next stoplight East (East Loop Road).  Turn north onto East Loop
Road (Big Bowl/Cozymel's Restaurants and Phillip's 66 Gas Station on
the corners); the campus will be on your right about a block north of
Butterfield Road.  Park in the student parking lot behind the building.
Room 103 is the first room inside the north entrance.  More detailed
directions and maps are available at:

         http://www.rice.iit.edu/directions.html
         http://www.rice.iit.edu/floorplan.html

All UniForum Chicago general meetings are open to the public free of  
charge.

For additional information contact Scott Nemec at (630) 990-6265 or
president at uniforum.chi.il.us, or visit the UniForum Chicago web site at:
	http://www.uniforum.chi.il.us/


From frag at ripco.com  Mon Oct 22 07:45:17 2007
From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:45:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>


Am I the only one out there who can't read the new javascript comments 
in use.perl.org?  (Firefox 2.0.0.8 Win Xp with noscript 1.1.7.2 
permiting perl.org javascript.)

Taking for e.g.
   http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308
pulling the slider to '11 Full', many of the comments only show 
partially, e.g. http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308&cid=58513 
stops at "If that's not in the cards,"  The rest of the comment is not 
there, even when I view source.

And switching to classic view doesn't persist; switching the comment 
mode form elements jumps you back to what I'm beginning to think of as 
the New Coke view.

Is this just me?  Is there anything I can do, besides giving up reading 
use.perl except for the front page?

-- Mike F.

From tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 22 07:52:33 2007
From: tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com (tiger peng)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
Message-ID: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Hello,

There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file optionally quoted by double quote.
What I did as below is ugly and not reliable. Could anyone provide one beautify line?

  $delimiter=chr(0227);
  s/^"/$delimiter/g;
  s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
  s/"$/$delimiter/g;
  s/",/$delimiter,/g;
  s/"//g;
  s/$delimiter/"/g;

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20071022/16d5e8ba/attachment.html 

From a.wong2.nu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 07:54:32 2007
From: a.wong2.nu at gmail.com (Tony Wong)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:54:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
Message-ID: <334a3ab20710220754t56a62638s3af392df212cc372@mail.gmail.com>

You aren't the only one. I just checked it and am getting the same
thing with the comments. I have pretty much the same setup as you as
well (XP, Firefox 2.0.0.8).

Tony

On 10/22/07, Mike Fragassi <frag at ripco.com> wrote:
>
> Am I the only one out there who can't read the new javascript comments
> in use.perl.org?  (Firefox 2.0.0.8 Win Xp with noscript 1.1.7.2
> permiting perl.org javascript.)
>
> Taking for e.g.
>    http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308
> pulling the slider to '11 Full', many of the comments only show
> partially, e.g. http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308&cid=58513
> stops at "If that's not in the cards,"  The rest of the comment is not
> there, even when I view source.
>
> And switching to classic view doesn't persist; switching the comment
> mode form elements jumps you back to what I'm beginning to think of as
> the New Coke view.
>
> Is this just me?  Is there anything I can do, besides giving up reading
> use.perl except for the front page?
>
> -- Mike F.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From jason at froebe.net  Mon Oct 22 07:55:02 2007
From: jason at froebe.net (Jason L. Froebe)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
Message-ID: <647841.90435.qm@web801.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Works fine here:  Firefox 2.0.0.8 with noscript 1.1.7.2 on Vista
business.

Does clearing the cache help?

jason

--- Mike Fragassi <frag at ripco.com> wrote:

> 
> Am I the only one out there who can't read the new javascript
> comments 
> in use.perl.org?  (Firefox 2.0.0.8 Win Xp with noscript 1.1.7.2 
> permiting perl.org javascript.)
> 
> Taking for e.g.
>    http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308
> pulling the slider to '11 Full', many of the comments only show 
> partially, e.g. http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308&cid=58513 
> stops at "If that's not in the cards,"  The rest of the comment is
> not 
> there, even when I view source.
> 
> And switching to classic view doesn't persist; switching the comment 
> mode form elements jumps you back to what I'm beginning to think of
> as 
> the New Coke view.
> 
> Is this just me?  Is there anything I can do, besides giving up
> reading 
> use.perl except for the front page?
> 
> -- Mike F.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 


Jason L. Froebe

WebBlog http://jfroebe.livejournal.com
Tech log http://www.froebe.net/blog
Froebe Fibers http://www.froebe-fibers.com

From jason at froebe.net  Mon Oct 22 07:55:02 2007
From: jason at froebe.net (Jason L. Froebe)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
Message-ID: <647841.90435.qm@web801.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Works fine here:  Firefox 2.0.0.8 with noscript 1.1.7.2 on Vista
business.

Does clearing the cache help?

jason

--- Mike Fragassi <frag at ripco.com> wrote:

> 
> Am I the only one out there who can't read the new javascript
> comments 
> in use.perl.org?  (Firefox 2.0.0.8 Win Xp with noscript 1.1.7.2 
> permiting perl.org javascript.)
> 
> Taking for e.g.
>    http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308
> pulling the slider to '11 Full', many of the comments only show 
> partially, e.g. http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=37308&cid=58513 
> stops at "If that's not in the cards,"  The rest of the comment is
> not 
> there, even when I view source.
> 
> And switching to classic view doesn't persist; switching the comment 
> mode form elements jumps you back to what I'm beginning to think of
> as 
> the New Coke view.
> 
> Is this just me?  Is there anything I can do, besides giving up
> reading 
> use.perl except for the front page?
> 
> -- Mike F.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 


Jason L. Froebe

WebBlog http://jfroebe.livejournal.com
Tech log http://www.froebe.net/blog
Froebe Fibers http://www.froebe-fibers.com

From mongers at bsod.net  Mon Oct 22 07:58:10 2007
From: mongers at bsod.net (Pete Krawczyk)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:58:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] October 23, 2007: Make Your Own CPAN
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710220952390.15895@steward.bsod.net>

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   Chicago Perl Mongers Meeting Announcement
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Topic: Make Your Own CPAN
   Presenter: brian d foy
   Date/Time: Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007, 7:00 PM
    Location: Performics, 12th Floor, 180 N. LaSalle, Chicago, IL
        RSVP: By noon on Oct. 23rd to "pkrawczyk" with "doubleclick.com"
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Want your own CPAN? Need to add your own modules, take out other modules, 
start from scratch, or put it on a CD? With a little bit of knowledge 
about how CPAN works you can easily make your own archive that works with 
the standard CPAN tools. Want to go home with your own copy of CPAN? Bring 
a 1 G thumb drive and we'll make you a copy as you wait.

brian will also be bringing a big pile of random books with him. That pile 
includes several recent promotional copies as well as things he doesn't 
want on his shelf anymore. Why not bring your unwanted books, too?  We'll 
have a book swap. Give a book, take a book.

And, for those that want first crack at the books, give a lightning talk. 
You don't need slides or anything fancy. Just get up and talk for 3 to 5 
minutes about something you're doing with Perl or that happened in your 
Perl development since the last meeting. It's a great way to get used to 
talking about a technical topic in front of a friendly audience. brian 
will give everyone who gives a lightning talk a free copy of the current 
issue of The Perl Review, which currently has a long article on his talk 
topic.

Don't forget that everyone is invited to Monks for drinks and food
after the meeting. Anyone who shows up at Monks for their first time
gets a free drink on brian. :)



As with all Chicago Perl Mongers meetings, everyone is welcome,
whether or not you consider yourself a member. We look forward to
seeing you there!

Questions about this meeting?  Ask on the chicago-talk at pm.org mailing
list, or send email to andy at petdance dot com.  You can also see a list
of past and upcoming meetings at http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/.

From frag at ripco.com  Mon Oct 22 08:24:20 2007
From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:24:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710221020520.10734@shell3>


Try Text::ParseWords.  You'll need to use something like:

   my @words = &quotewords(',', undef, $line);

-- Mike F.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, tiger peng wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file 
> optionally quoted by double quote. What I did as below is ugly and not 
> reliable. Could anyone provide one beautify line?

From andy at petdance.com  Mon Oct 22 08:24:27 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:24:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20071022152427.GA24850@petdance.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2007 at 07:52:33AM -0700, tiger peng (tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com) wrote:
> There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file optionally quoted by double quote.
> What I did as below is ugly and not reliable. Could anyone provide one beautify line?
> 
>   $delimiter=chr(0227);
>   s/^"/$delimiter/g;
>   s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
>   s/"$/$delimiter/g;
>   s/",/$delimiter,/g;
>   s/"//g;
>   s/$delimiter/"/g;

Why are you trying to remove the double quotes?  Is the format wrong?

I would probably read in your CSV file with Text::CSV_XS and re-output
it with different parameters.

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From frag at ripco.com  Mon Oct 22 08:26:45 2007
From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:26:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
In-Reply-To: <647841.90435.qm@web801.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <647841.90435.qm@web801.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710221026270.10734@shell3>



On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Jason L. Froebe wrote:

> Works fine here:  Firefox 2.0.0.8 with noscript 1.1.7.2 on Vista
> business.
>
> Does clearing the cache help?

No, it doesn't.

-- Mike F.


From shlomif at iglu.org.il  Mon Oct 22 08:27:11 2007
From: shlomif at iglu.org.il (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:27:11 +0200
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200710221727.11518.shlomif@iglu.org.il>

On Monday 22 October 2007, tiger peng wrote:
> Hello,
>
> There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file
> optionally quoted by double quote. What I did as below is ugly and not
> reliable. Could anyone provide one beautify line?
>
>   $delimiter=chr(0227);
>   s/^"/$delimiter/g;
>   s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
>   s/"$/$delimiter/g;
>   s/",/$delimiter,/g;
>   s/"//g;
>   s/$delimiter/"/g;

Is there any reason you're not using Text::CSV_XS to parse the CSV?

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Text-CSV_XS/

Otherwise, you may wish to process the line incrementally using \G and /g.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

If it's not in my E-mail it doesn't happen. And if my E-mail is saying
one thing, and everything else says something else - E-mail will conquer.
    -- An Israeli Linuxer

From tzz at lifelogs.com  Mon Oct 22 08:29:39 2007
From: tzz at lifelogs.com (Ted Zlatanov)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:29:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com> (tiger peng's
	message of "Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m2wstfupzw.fsf@lifelogs.com>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT) tiger peng <tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

tp> There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file optionally quoted by double quote.
tp> What I did as below is ugly and not reliable. Could anyone provide one beautify line?

tp>   $delimiter=chr(0227);
tp>   s/^"/$delimiter/g;
tp>   s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
tp>   s/"$/$delimiter/g;
tp>   s/",/$delimiter,/g;
tp>   s/"//g;
tp>   s/$delimiter/"/g;

Have you considered Text::CSV_XS or any other CSV parsing modules?

You could just say

$columns = $csv->getline($io); # you need an IO object

You can then use $columns, which is an array ref, any way you like.

Ted

From jon at jrock.us  Mon Oct 22 08:32:19 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:32:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] October 23, 2007: Make Your Own CPAN
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710220952390.15895@steward.bsod.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710220952390.15895@steward.bsod.net>
Message-ID: <471CC283.1000105@jrock.us>

Pete Krawczyk wrote:
> And, for those that want first crack at the books, give a lightning talk. 
> You don't need slides or anything fancy. Just get up and talk for 3 to 5 
> minutes about something you're doing with Perl or that happened in your 
> Perl development since the last meeting. It's a great way to get used to 
> talking about a technical topic in front of a friendly audience. brian 
> will give everyone who gives a lightning talk a free copy of the current 
> issue of The Perl Review, which currently has a long article on his talk 
> topic.

I would like to give my 15 minutes "Test More" talk.

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway


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From jon at jrock.us  Mon Oct 22 08:35:40 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:35:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
Message-ID: <471CC34C.3080204@jrock.us>

Mike Fragassi wrote:
> Am I the only one out there who can't read the new javascript comments 
> in use.perl.org?  (Firefox 2.0.0.8 Win Xp with noscript 1.1.7.2 
> permiting perl.org javascript.)
>   

You can disable the new interface by going to your preferences:

http://use.perl.org/users.pl?op=editcomm

And changing the Discussion Style checkbox from D2 to classic.

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway


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From a.wong2.nu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 09:37:52 2007
From: a.wong2.nu at gmail.com (Tony Wong)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:37:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] October 23, 2007: Make Your Own CPAN
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710220952390.15895@steward.bsod.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710220952390.15895@steward.bsod.net>
Message-ID: <334a3ab20710220937r6885ebfdy45dfc00183a7967a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pete,

Thanks for sending out the notice. Would you mind putting my name down
on the list for check-in? I'll look through my books and see what I've
got to bring tomorrow night.

Tony

On 10/22/07, Pete Krawczyk <mongers at bsod.net> wrote:
>    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    Chicago Perl Mongers Meeting Announcement
>    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>        Topic: Make Your Own CPAN
>    Presenter: brian d foy
>    Date/Time: Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007, 7:00 PM
>     Location: Performics, 12th Floor, 180 N. LaSalle, Chicago, IL
>         RSVP: By noon on Oct. 23rd to "pkrawczyk" with "doubleclick.com"
>    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Want your own CPAN? Need to add your own modules, take out other modules,
> start from scratch, or put it on a CD? With a little bit of knowledge
> about how CPAN works you can easily make your own archive that works with
> the standard CPAN tools. Want to go home with your own copy of CPAN? Bring
> a 1 G thumb drive and we'll make you a copy as you wait.
>
> brian will also be bringing a big pile of random books with him. That pile
> includes several recent promotional copies as well as things he doesn't
> want on his shelf anymore. Why not bring your unwanted books, too?  We'll
> have a book swap. Give a book, take a book.
>
> And, for those that want first crack at the books, give a lightning talk.
> You don't need slides or anything fancy. Just get up and talk for 3 to 5
> minutes about something you're doing with Perl or that happened in your
> Perl development since the last meeting. It's a great way to get used to
> talking about a technical topic in front of a friendly audience. brian
> will give everyone who gives a lightning talk a free copy of the current
> issue of The Perl Review, which currently has a long article on his talk
> topic.
>
> Don't forget that everyone is invited to Monks for drinks and food
> after the meeting. Anyone who shows up at Monks for their first time
> gets a free drink on brian. :)
>
>
>
> As with all Chicago Perl Mongers meetings, everyone is welcome,
> whether or not you consider yourself a member. We look forward to
> seeing you there!
>
> Questions about this meeting?  Ask on the chicago-talk at pm.org mailing
> list, or send email to andy at petdance dot com.  You can also see a list
> of past and upcoming meetings at http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From frag at ripco.com  Mon Oct 22 09:49:21 2007
From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:49:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
In-Reply-To: <471CC34C.3080204@jrock.us>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
	<471CC34C.3080204@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710221115510.13705@shell3>


On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Jonathan Rockway wrote:

> You can disable the new interface by going to your preferences:
>
> http://use.perl.org/users.pl?op=editcomm
>
> And changing the Discussion Style checkbox from D2 to classic.

Meh; why should I log in just to browse?  (Especially when logging in 
means seeing the ridiculous emoti-face icons on each entry.  I can't 
tell from the preference page whether there's a way to hide them 
completely, but man o man I hate those.)  In any case, if this isn't 
just me with the problem, I want to see what can be done to get it 
fixed; I'm assuming that this is indeed a bug, and not a feature.

I've figured out via the FAQ that since the site is updated weekly with 
the latest slashcode, that the sourceforge tracker for slashcode must be 
the proper place for bug reports.  I'll have to give that a shot later 
on when I have time.

-- Mike F.

From chicago.pm at galumph.com  Mon Oct 22 10:05:45 2007
From: chicago.pm at galumph.com (Elliot Shank)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:05:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] use.perl.org - unreadable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0710220924230.10734@shell3>
Message-ID: <471CD869.6080803@galumph.com>

Mike Fragassi wrote:
> Am I the only one out there who can't read the new javascript comments 
> in use.perl.org?  (Firefox 2.0.0.8 Win Xp with noscript 1.1.7.2 
> permiting perl.org javascript.)

Fx 2.0.0.8 Mac, no js blocking software at all: borked.

From list at phaedrusdeinus.org  Mon Oct 22 11:19:04 2007
From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:19:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Frozen Perl
Message-ID: <240953B3-2A3D-4288-9F79-D9CD5DBB6376@phaedrusdeinus.org>

Everyone,

Many of you have been to the Pittsburgh Perl Workshop. There's  
something similar happening up in Minneapolis in February. It's  
called Frozen Perl.

http://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2008/

The call for speakers is almost closed (tomorrow's it), and they need  
some more presentations. This year's theme is "Perl in Practice".

http://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2008/cfs.html

Despite the fact that Minnesota's winters are worse than Chicago's,  
this promises to be (indoor and heated) fun. If you've never given a  
presentation before, this is a good place to start. If you have given  
presentations before, dust one off and submit it.

That is all.

-johnnnnnnnn


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Oct 24 12:14:48 2007
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:14:48 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <86182.62961.qm@web58706.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <471F99A8.3030301@wrkhors.com>

> There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file
> optionally quoted by double quote.
> What I did as below is ugly and not reliable. Could anyone provide one
> beautify line?
>
>   $delimiter=chr(0227);
>   s/^"/$delimiter/g;
>   s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
>   s/"$/$delimiter/g;
>   s/",/$delimiter,/g;
>   s/"//g;
>   s/$delimiter/"/g;

You don't seem to want all of the quotes removed,
only the embedded ones. If the data is well-formatted
then the operation above will leave you with a bunch
of naked backslashes in the text:

  "this is a \"double quoted\" text line"

becomes

  "this is a \double quoted\ text line"

and you probably don't want the \d or \ in your
result.

If the real problem is that fate has handed you some
CSV data with embedded, un-escaped quotes then your
approach makes the most sense, but you'll have to
remove escaped quotes also:

  s{ \\" }{}gx;

will strip the \" char's. You might prefer to replace
them with non-delimiting quotes, e.g.,


  s{ \\" }{'}gx;

All of the CSV parsing modules assume "clean" CSV
source (oxymoron?) so if you need to clean up botched
data then some iterative approach is likely to be
what you need.

enjoi

-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508

From tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 24 12:54:38 2007
From: tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com (tiger peng)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
Message-ID: <90912.45436.qm@web58705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

You are right if it is well formated CSV file.
But I don't know if this is guaranteed. There is no document about it. I just rewrite an old old uncommented/undocumented working scripts.

The segment is just rewritten to make it little bit easier to read by replacing the embedded 'DEL' charters with a variable populate with function chr.

Below is the best I can do. It looks better to me and can run as two times faster than the old one does. I still cannot make out one-liner for it. Can anyone get ride of the first line?

  my $leadingQ=""; $leadingQ='"' if /^"/; #save the leading quote if it is there
  s/(?<!,)"(?!(,|$))//g; # remove all double quote not next to comma or at the end of the line
  print OUTF $leadingQ, $_;


----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Lembark <lembark at wrkhors.com>
To: Chicago.pm chatter <chicago-talk at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:14:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters


> There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file
> optionally quoted by double quote.
> What I did as below is ugly and not reliable. Could anyone provide
 one
> beautify line?
>
>   $delimiter=chr(0227);
>   s/^"/$delimiter/g;
>   s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
>   s/"$/$delimiter/g;
>   s/",/$delimiter,/g;
>   s/"//g;
>   s/$delimiter/"/g;

You don't seem to want all of the quotes removed,
only the embedded ones. If the data is well-formatted
then the operation above will leave you with a bunch
of naked backslashes in the text:

  "this is a \"double quoted\" text line"

becomes

  "this is a \double quoted\ text line"

and you probably don't want the \d or \ in your
result.

If the real problem is that fate has handed you some
CSV data with embedded, un-escaped quotes then your
approach makes the most sense, but you'll have to
remove escaped quotes also:

  s{ \\" }{}gx;

will strip the \" char's. You might prefer to replace
them with non-delimiting quotes, e.g.,


  s{ \\" }{'}gx;

All of the CSV parsing modules assume "clean" CSV
source (oxymoron?) so if you need to clean up botched
data then some iterative approach is likely to be
what you need.

enjoi

-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th
 Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY
 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359
 3508
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk



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From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Oct 24 17:03:05 2007
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:03:05 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <90912.45436.qm@web58705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <90912.45436.qm@web58705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <471FDD39.3060201@wrkhors.com>


> You are right if it is well formated CSV file.
> But I don't know if this is guaranteed. There is no document about it. I
> just rewrite an old old uncommented/undocumented working scripts.
>
> The segment is just rewritten to make it little bit easier to read by
> replacing the embedded 'DEL' charters with a variable populate with
> function chr.
>
> Below is the best I can do. It looks better to me and can run as two
> times faster than the old one does. I still cannot make out one-liner
> for it. Can anyone get ride of the first line?
>
>   my $leadingQ=""; $leadingQ='"' if /^"/; #save the leading quote if it
> is there

>   s/(?<!,)"(?!(,|$))//g; # remove all double quote not next to comma or
> at the end of the line
>   print OUTF $leadingQ, $_;

That's what I was going to suggest.

You might want to eyeball Text::Balanced (Conway)
and Regexp::Common::balanced (abagail). T::B allows
you to validate the content, which might be the
best approach: work your way in from the edges
and discard what's in the middle of balanced
quotes.


-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508

From briank at kappacs.com  Wed Oct 24 18:33:11 2007
From: briank at kappacs.com (Brian Katzung)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:33:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <90912.45436.qm@web58705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <90912.45436.qm@web58705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <471FF257.8010306@kappacs.com>

tiger peng wrote:
> You are right if it is well formated CSV file.
> But I don't know if this is guaranteed. There is no document about it. I 
> just rewrite an old old uncommented/undocumented working scripts.
> 
> The segment is just rewritten to make it little bit easier to read by 
> replacing the embedded 'DEL' charters with a variable populate with 
> function chr.
> 
> Below is the best I can do. It looks better to me and can run as two 
> times faster than the old one does. I still cannot make out one-liner 
> for it. Can anyone get ride of the first line?
> 
>   my $leadingQ=""; $leadingQ='"' if /^"/; #save the leading quote if it 
> is there
>   s/(?<!,)"(?!(,|$))//g; # remove all double quote not next to comma or 
> at the end of the line
>   print OUTF $leadingQ, $_;

OK. Here's my one-liner version (well, two including the print) of the 
above:

s/(?<!,)(?:(^")|")(?!,|$)/defined($1)?$1:''/eg;
print OUTF $_;

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steven Lembark <lembark at wrkhors.com>
> To: Chicago.pm chatter <chicago-talk at pm.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:14:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
> 
>  > There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV file
>  > optionally quoted by double quote.
>  > What I did as below is ugly and not reliable. Could anyone provide one
>  > beautify line?
>  >
>  >  $delimiter=chr(0227);
>  >  s/^"/$delimiter/g;
>  >  s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
>  >  s/"$/$delimiter/g;
>  >  s/",/$delimiter,/g;
>  >  s/"//g;
>  >  s/$delimiter/"/g;
> 
> You don't seem to want all of the quotes removed,
> only the embedded ones. If the data is well-formatted
> then the operation above will leave you with a bunch
> of naked backslashes in the text:
> 
>   "this is a \"double quoted\" text line"
> 
> becomes
> 
>   "this is a \double quoted\ text line"
> 
> and you probably don't want the \d or \ in your
> result.
> 
> If the real problem is that fate has handed you some
> CSV data with embedded, un-escaped quotes then your
> approach makes the most sense, but you'll have to
> remove escaped quotes also:
> 
>   s{ \\" }{}gx;
> 
> will strip the \" char's. You might prefer to replace
> them with non-delimiting quotes, e.g.,
> 
> 
>   s{ \\" }{'}gx;
> 
> All of the CSV parsing modules assume "clean" CSV
> source (oxymoron?) so if you need to clean up botched
> data then some iterative approach is likely to be
> what you need.
> 
> enjoi
> 
> -- 
> Steven Lembark                                        85-09 90th Street

Here's a "smarter" but longer obfuscation:

s{((?:^|,)")((?:[^"]|\\"|"")*?)(")(?=,|$)|([^,]*)}{
  (sub { my @a = @_; $a[1] =~ s/\\"|"//g;
  join('', grep(defined, @a)); })->
  ($1, defined($2)? $2: $4, $3)}eg;
print;

You're certainly at liberty to remove newlines from the code if the line 
count is that important to you. :-)

This one considers a field to be quoted only if it has (anchored) quotes 
at each end and internal quotes are \-escaped or doubled. All other \" 
and " that are not anchored in a quoted field are removed.

I haven't attempted any timings.

   - Brian

-- 
Brian Katzung, Kappa Computer Solutions, LLC
Leveraging UNIX, Linux, open source, and custom
software solutions for business and beyond
Phone: 877.367.8837 x1  http://www.kappacs.com


From tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 24 20:22:22 2007
From: tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com (tiger peng)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:22:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
Message-ID: <525492.83241.qm@web58709.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Thanks  everyone. Here is the one-liner  I am  looking for!
perl -ne 's/(?<!,)(?:(^")|")(?!,|$)/defined($1)?$1:""/ge?print:print' in.csv > out.csv
(-; I have not used my real first name 'Ge' for regex for a while ;-)
I believe the replace character and the delimiter can be a set of character, such as ["'] [,:|].

Another question: How to use one-liner to split web log file?

----- Original Message ----
From: Brian Katzung <briank at kappacs.com>
To: Chicago.pm chatter <chicago-talk at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:33:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters

tiger peng wrote:
> You are right if it is well formated CSV file.
> But I don't know if this is guaranteed. There is no document about
 it. I 
> just rewrite an old old uncommented/undocumented working scripts.
> 
> The segment is just rewritten to make it little bit easier to read by
 
> replacing the embedded 'DEL' charters with a variable populate with 
> function chr.
> 
> Below is the best I can do. It looks better to me and can run as two 
> times faster than the old one does. I still cannot make out one-liner
 
> for it. Can anyone get ride of the first line?
> 
>   my $leadingQ=""; $leadingQ='"' if /^"/; #save the leading quote if
 it 
> is there
>   s/(?<!,)"(?!(,|$))//g; # remove all double quote not next to comma
 or 
> at the end of the line
>   print OUTF $leadingQ, $_;

OK. Here's my one-liner version (well, two including the print) of the 
above:

s/(?<!,)(?:(^")|")(?!,|$)/defined($1)?$1:''/eg;
print OUTF $_;

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steven Lembark <lembark at wrkhors.com>
> To: Chicago.pm chatter <chicago-talk at pm.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:14:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
> 
>  > There must be better way for removing the double quote in a CSV
 file
>  > optionally quoted by double quote.
>  > What I did as below is ugly and not reliable. Could anyone provide
 one
>  > beautify line?
>  >
>  >  $delimiter=chr(0227);
>  >  s/^"/$delimiter/g;
>  >  s/,"/,$delimiter/g;
>  >  s/"$/$delimiter/g;
>  >  s/",/$delimiter,/g;
>  >  s/"//g;
>  >  s/$delimiter/"/g;
> 
> You don't seem to want all of the quotes removed,
> only the embedded ones. If the data is well-formatted
> then the operation above will leave you with a bunch
> of naked backslashes in the text:
> 
>   "this is a \"double quoted\" text line"
> 
> becomes
> 
>   "this is a \double quoted\ text line"
> 
> and you probably don't want the \d or \ in your
> result.
> 
> If the real problem is that fate has handed you some
> CSV data with embedded, un-escaped quotes then your
> approach makes the most sense, but you'll have to
> remove escaped quotes also:
> 
>   s{ \\" }{}gx;
> 
> will strip the \" char's. You might prefer to replace
> them with non-delimiting quotes, e.g.,
> 
> 
>   s{ \\" }{'}gx;
> 
> All of the CSV parsing modules assume "clean" CSV
> source (oxymoron?) so if you need to clean up botched
> data then some iterative approach is likely to be
> what you need.
> 
> enjoi
> 
> -- 
> Steven Lembark                                        85-09 90th
 Street

Here's a "smarter" but longer obfuscation:

s{((?:^|,)")((?:[^"]|\\"|"")*?)(")(?=,|$)|([^,]*)}{
  (sub { my @a = @_; $a[1] =~ s/\\"|"//g;
  join('', grep(defined, @a)); })->
  ($1, defined($2)? $2: $4, $3)}eg;
print;

You're certainly at liberty to remove newlines from the code if the
 line 
count is that important to you. :-)

This one considers a field to be quoted only if it has (anchored)
 quotes 
at each end and internal quotes are \-escaped or doubled. All other \" 
and " that are not anchored in a quoted field are removed.

I haven't attempted any timings.

   - Brian

-- 
Brian Katzung, Kappa Computer Solutions, LLC
Leveraging UNIX, Linux, open source, and custom
software solutions for business and beyond
Phone: 877.367.8837 x1  http://www.kappacs.com

_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk



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From tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 24 21:00:17 2007
From: tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com (tiger peng)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
Message-ID: <549072.55955.qm@web58713.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

And this one will keep the double quote escape by backslash \". But if a backslash is escaped by a backslash, the double quote following the escaped backslash, this double quote is not escaped, will still be  kept.

Phew  ;-& 

's/(?<![,\\])(?:(^")|")(?![,;]|$)/$1?$1:""/ge?print:print'

----- Original Message ----
From: tiger peng <tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com>
To: Chicago.pm chatter <chicago-talk at pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:22:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters

Thanks  everyone. Here is the one-liner  I am  looking for!
perl -ne 's/(?<!,)(?:(^")|")(?!,|$)/defined($1)?$1:""/ge?print:print' in.csv > out.csv
(-; I have not used my real first name 'Ge' for regex for a while ;-)
I believe the replace character and the delimiter can be a set of character, such as ["'] [,:|].

's/(?<![,\\])(?:(^")|")(?![,;]|$)/$1?$1:""/ge?print:print'




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From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Oct 25 09:27:58 2007
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:27:58 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Removing Characters
In-Reply-To: <549072.55955.qm@web58713.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <549072.55955.qm@web58713.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4720C40E.70008@wrkhors.com>


> And this one will keep the double quote escape by backslash \". But if a
> backslash is escaped by a backslash, the double quote following the
> escaped backslash, this double quote is not escaped, will still be  kept.
>
> Phew  ;-&
>
> 's/(?<![,\\])(?:(^")|")(?![,;]|$)/$1?$1:""/ge?print:print'

That's what you get when you use data with
embedded delimters. It's also why Tab-separated
format has persisted for so many years: it's
fairly easy to avoid literal tabs in the data.
CSV is a mess due to (a) the lack of any real
standard and (b) including both commas and
quotes in the data.

One suggestion:

Replace delimiting quotes with a non-data separator
(e.g., ascii FS, "\t"), then do the same for any
remaining commas. At this point you can strip the
quotes as necessary (or leave them) and not care:
the delimieters do not appear in the data and you
are safe in how you process it.

enjoi

-- 
Steven Lembark                                         85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                  Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                      +1 888 359 3508

From andy at petdance.com  Thu Oct 25 21:05:16 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:05:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] November's meeting announcements
Message-ID: <C87C818B-9A25-4D6E-B32B-9B55CBA7F339@petdance.com>

    
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
                  Chicago Perl Mongers Meeting Announcements
    
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
   Date/Time: Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 7:00 PM
    Location: IIT-Rice Campus, 201 East Loop Rd, Wheaton, IL
   Afterward: Dinner at CozyMel's <http://www.cozymels.com/ 
store_wheaton.htm>
    
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--
   Date/Time: Tuesday, November 27th, 2007, 7:00 PM
    Location: Performics, 12th Floor, 180 N. LaSalle, Chicago, IL
        RSVP: By noon on Nov. 27th to "pkrawczyk" with "doubleclick.com"
    
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--

This is a consolidated November announcement for both the city and  
Wheaton meetings.

There is no speaker information in this announcement, because we have  
no volunteers to speak at either meeting.  Perl Mongers groups rely  
on members to provide the content to these meetings, and so far, no  
one has heeded the call to speak in November.

We have only had 9 different people present at 19 meetings so far  
this year.  We'd like to hear what you're doing with Perl!  Even if  
you don't think you need two whole hours, we would still like to see  
new faces with new content.

If we can't come up with content for these meetings, they will likely  
be cancelled.  To avoid that, speak up today!

In case you're wondering, 2007's speaker list reads as follows:
   Jan Wheaton: Andy Lester, Josh McAdams, Pete Krawczyk
   Jan Chicago: Jon Rockway
   Feb W: CANCELLED due to weather
   Feb C: Chris McAvoy
   Mar W: Chris McAvoy
   Mar C: Jon Rockway
   Apr W: Andy Lester, Pete Krawczyk
   Apr C: Andy Lester, Pete Krawczyk
   May C: Various (cancellation)
   May W: Clyde Forrester
   Jun W: Andy Lester
   Jun C: Clyde Forrester, Ryan Gerry
   Jul W: Andy Lester
   Jul C: Various (lightning talks)
   Aug W: Kent Cowgill
   Aug C: Josh McAdams
   Sep W: Andy Lester
   Sep C: Kent Cowgill
   Oct W: Andy Lester (lightning talks)
   Oct C: brian d foy


As with all Chicago Perl Mongers meetings, everyone is welcome,
whether or not you consider yourself a member. We look forward to
seeing you there!

Questions about this meeting?  Ask on the chicago-talk at pm.org mailing
list, or send email to andy at petdance dot com.  You can also see a  
list
of past and upcoming meetings at http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/.

(And thanks to Pete Krawczyk for writing this.  I'm just mailing it  
out.)

xoxo,
Andy

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From andy at petdance.com  Fri Oct 26 08:25:20 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:25:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Suburban meetings need a new organizer
Message-ID: <00B2C94E-F034-4AD4-81B4-8C964825F892@petdance.com>

I'm stepping aside as organizer of the suburban Chicago.PM and  
Uniforum meetings.  If meetings are to continue out in the suburbs,  
someone needs to step forward and take over the responsibility of  
organizing them, either getting people to speak, or figuring out what  
will happen during the meeting.

What you choose to do with the mantle of organizer is up to you.   
There's no "supposed to" or "have to".  This is open source, and it  
works with meetings just like software.  Whatever someone does is  
what happens.  We have a space at IIT in Wheaton on the 2nd Tuesday  
of each month, although that could probably get changed by working  
with the Uniforum people.

I'll say it again: Whatever someone does to make meetings happens is  
what will happen for meetings.  YOU can make the meetings be exactly  
what you want.  You wanna have 'em at the bar down the street from  
your house?  Then take the meeting organizer hat and make it happen.   
If you want to have panel discussions about how Perl can be used best  
for figuring out lotto numbers, then by all means, do it.

Messages about "Wheaton sucks, we should move the meeting to X" or  
"We should have X at our meetings" are not helpful unless YOU are the  
one who is going to make X happen.  Without YOU taking some sort of  
action to make it happen, you're really saying "I want you to do X  
for me," and that's not helpful, and is frustrating at best.

I will help however I can.  If you're at all interested, even if only  
in helping a bit, please let me know.

Thanks,
xoxo,
Andy


--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From brian.d.foy at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 11:27:16 2007
From: brian.d.foy at gmail.com (brian d foy)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:27:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] November's meeting announcements
In-Reply-To: <C87C818B-9A25-4D6E-B32B-9B55CBA7F339@petdance.com>
References: <C87C818B-9A25-4D6E-B32B-9B55CBA7F339@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <2715accf0710261127h330baa22v98e2b9075f20c91c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/25/07, Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:

> We have only had 9 different people present at 19 meetings so far
> this year.

I think that's doing pretty well, especially since some of the talks
were repeated for each group. Just out of the talent in the Chicago
area we filled up the year without having a lot of visiting speakers.

And, nine people is a bit low since it doesn't count the lightning
talks. It takes awhile to build up to being able to give a long talk,
so I don't discount the shorter talks. Other groups would feel lucky
to have half the activity.

So, congratulations everyone. We rock :)


-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
http://www.pair.com/~comdog/

From jon at jrock.us  Tue Oct 30 10:30:25 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:30:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] exciting perl events in chicago this december
Message-ID: <47276A31.5020103@jrock.us>

Hi all,

Two things.

First, Stonehenge is doing a few low-cost open-enrollment Perl
courses this December downtown.  Anyone is welcome to enroll.
The schedule is as follows:

Day courses, 8am to 4pm
---------------
Learning Perl, Dec 10-12,           $750/person
Intermediate Perl, Dec 13-15,       $500/person

Night courses, 6pm to 9pm
---------------
Catalyst, Dec 10-12,                $375/person
Test Driven Development, Dec 13-14, $250/person

Learning Perl and Intermediate Perl will be taught by brian d foy, Test
Driven Development will be taught by Josh McAdams, and I will be
teaching the Catalyst course.

If you're interested in any of the courses, please contact brian to
register (brian.d.foy  AT gmail.com).  Questions are also welcome :)

Secondly, WindyCity.pm is sponsoring a hackathon on the weekend of
December 14-16 (all day Fri-Sun).  It's open-ended, so bring whatever
project you want to work on and get some other people to help you out! 
It's a great way to spend some quality time with both your favorite perl
projects and your fellow perl mongers :)

The event is of course free, and it will be on the second floor of the
J.Ira & Nicki Harris Family Hostel (http://www.hichicago.org/).  Food
will be provided :) Finally, if you're coming in from out of town, we've
reserved rooms at the hostel for something like $31/night  
(Thursday-Sunday)  Contact me for details.

Please e-mail me directly if you plan on attending or if you have any
questions.  I look forward to seeing you all there!

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway


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From chicago.pm at galumph.com  Tue Oct 30 11:38:46 2007
From: chicago.pm at galumph.com (Elliot Shank)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:38:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] exciting perl events in chicago this december
In-Reply-To: <47276A31.5020103@jrock.us>
References: <47276A31.5020103@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <47277A36.1050408@galumph.com>

Jonathan Rockway wrote:
> Secondly, WindyCity.pm is sponsoring a hackathon on the weekend of
> December 14-16 (all day Fri-Sun).  It's open-ended, so bring whatever
> project you want to work on and get some other people to help you out! 
> It's a great way to spend some quality time with both your favorite perl
> projects and your fellow perl mongers :)

Is this going to get more widely publicized than here?

From kent at c2group.net  Tue Oct 30 11:48:58 2007
From: kent at c2group.net (Kent Cowgill)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] exciting perl events in chicago this december
In-Reply-To: <47277A36.1050408@galumph.com>
References: <47276A31.5020103@jrock.us> <47277A36.1050408@galumph.com>
Message-ID: <A363B335-4415-4675-ADFE-30824124D51B@c2group.net>

Yeah - it was on use.perl.org yesterday.


-Kent Cowgill

C2 Group, Inc.                                             
kent at c2group.net
http://www.c2group.net                                         
312.804.0160


On Oct 30, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Elliot Shank wrote:

> Jonathan Rockway wrote:
>> Secondly, WindyCity.pm is sponsoring a hackathon on the weekend of
>> December 14-16 (all day Fri-Sun).  It's open-ended, so bring whatever
>> project you want to work on and get some other people to help you  
>> out!
>> It's a great way to spend some quality time with both your  
>> favorite perl
>> projects and your fellow perl mongers :)
>
> Is this going to get more widely publicized than here?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


From kent at c2group.net  Wed Oct 31 09:02:52 2007
From: kent at c2group.net (Kent Cowgill)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:02:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
Message-ID: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>


Hello,

I'm working up a talk, and if there's any interest, I'll be happy to  
finish it up in time for either (or both) of the meetings for November.

The current title is "Simple Photo Processing and Web Display with  
Perl".

I'll touch on a few modules: Imager, MIME::Lite,  
Email::MIME::Attachment::Stripper, and Image::ExifTool.

-Kent Cowgill

C2 Group, Inc.                                             
kent at c2group.net
http://www.c2group.net                                         
312.804.0160



From jon at jrock.us  Wed Oct 31 09:05:02 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:05:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
Message-ID: <4728A7AE.6040502@jrock.us>

Kent Cowgill wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm working up a talk, and if there's any interest, I'll be happy to  
> finish it up in time for either (or both) of the meetings for November.
>
> The current title is "Simple Photo Processing and Web Display with  
> Perl".
>
> I'll touch on a few modules: Imager, MIME::Lite,  
> Email::MIME::Attachment::Stripper, and Image::ExifTool.
>
>   

Sounds cool; I'm looking forward to hearing this.

I said last time I would do my "Test More" talk, and the offer still
stands.  It's only about 15 minutes, so maybe we can do both of these
talks next time?

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway


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From andy at petdance.com  Wed Oct 31 09:10:19 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:10:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
Message-ID: <6A9057BB-1370-4130-93F0-77C0733B74B6@petdance.com>


On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Kent Cowgill wrote:

> The current title is "Simple Photo Processing and Web Display with
> Perl".
>
> I'll touch on a few modules: Imager, MIME::Lite,
> Email::MIME::Attachment::Stripper, and Image::ExifTool.
'
That would be great, Kent.  Can I put you down for the 13th?

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From kent at c2group.net  Wed Oct 31 09:10:42 2007
From: kent at c2group.net (Kent Cowgill)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:10:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <4728A7AE.6040502@jrock.us>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<4728A7AE.6040502@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <8FF8F342-E9A6-463E-860A-96C147949903@c2group.net>

(Adding the other list, too)

Yeah, that's a good idea, since my talk most likely won't be able to  
fill up the available time.

-Kent Cowgill

C2 Group, Inc.                                             
kent at c2group.net
http://www.c2group.net                                         
312.804.0160


On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Rockway wrote:

> Kent Cowgill wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm working up a talk, and if there's any interest, I'll be happy to
>> finish it up in time for either (or both) of the meetings for  
>> November.
>>
>> The current title is "Simple Photo Processing and Web Display with
>> Perl".
>>
>> I'll touch on a few modules: Imager, MIME::Lite,
>> Email::MIME::Attachment::Stripper, and Image::ExifTool.
>>
>>
>
> Sounds cool; I'm looking forward to hearing this.
>
> I said last time I would do my "Test More" talk, and the offer still
> stands.  It's only about 15 minutes, so maybe we can do both of these
> talks next time?
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From mrnicksgirl at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 09:12:44 2007
From: mrnicksgirl at gmail.com (Nola Stowe)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:12:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
Message-ID: <43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>

I had an idea for the downtown meeting..

Everyone pitches in in 5-10 bucks and we order food, and watch an
episode or two of IT Crowd.

We could do a short talk and then one episode instead.

We could do this in december.... maybe having it earlier in the month
to avoid the holiday rush... *if* moving the meeting won't cause
problems.

anyways.. just some ideas.



On 10/31/07, Kent Cowgill <kent at c2group.net> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm working up a talk, and if there's any interest, I'll be happy to
> finish it up in time for either (or both) of the meetings for November.
>
> The current title is "Simple Photo Processing and Web Display with
> Perl".
>
> I'll touch on a few modules: Imager, MIME::Lite,
> Email::MIME::Attachment::Stripper, and Image::ExifTool.
>
> -Kent Cowgill
>
> C2 Group, Inc.
> kent at c2group.net
> http://www.c2group.net
> 312.804.0160
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


-- 
http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl
http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun

From jon at jrock.us  Wed Oct 31 09:23:09 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:23:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>

Nola Stowe wrote:
> I had an idea for the downtown meeting..
>
> Everyone pitches in in 5-10 bucks and we order food, and watch an
> episode or two of IT Crowd.
>
> We could do a short talk and then one episode instead.
>
> We could do this in december.... maybe having it earlier in the month
> to avoid the holiday rush... *if* moving the meeting won't cause
> problems.
>
> anyways.. just some ideas.
>   

Or we could do this a week or two earlier and just call it a "social
event" instead of a meeting.

(more downtown events)++
(The IT Crowd)++

BTW, is it even "legal" to watch The IT Crowd in the US?  The only DVDs
I can find are region 2, and it's apparently a DMCA violation to
circumvent the region code.

FWIW, I just downloaded the episodes from Usenet ;)

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

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From andy at petdance.com  Wed Oct 31 09:29:46 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:29:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>


On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Jonathan Rockway wrote:

> Or we could do this a week or two earlier and just call it a "social
> event" instead of a meeting.
>
> (more downtown events)++


Please make up your mind about this division of groups.  If you're  
going to have WindyCity.pm be "downtown only", then keep the downtown- 
only discussion on the WindyCity.pm list.  Or, let's merge the two  
lists back together as they were.  But you can't have it both ways.

Thanks,
Andy

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From kent at c2group.net  Wed Oct 31 09:39:52 2007
From: kent at c2group.net (Kent Cowgill)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:39:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <6A9057BB-1370-4130-93F0-77C0733B74B6@petdance.com>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<6A9057BB-1370-4130-93F0-77C0733B74B6@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <F6D5FA26-7345-4FD0-B745-5398EB9BED64@c2group.net>

Absolutely.

-Kent Cowgill

C2 Group, Inc.                                             
kent at c2group.net
http://www.c2group.net                                         
312.804.0160


On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:10 AM, Andy Lester wrote:

>
> On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Kent Cowgill wrote:
>
>> The current title is "Simple Photo Processing and Web Display with
>> Perl".
>>
>> I'll touch on a few modules: Imager, MIME::Lite,
>> Email::MIME::Attachment::Stripper, and Image::ExifTool.
> '
> That would be great, Kent.  Can I put you down for the 13th?
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


From jon at jrock.us  Wed Oct 31 09:40:40 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <4728B008.6050105@jrock.us>

Andy Lester wrote:
> Please make up your mind about this division of groups. If you're
> going to have WindyCity.pm be "downtown only", then keep the downtown- 
> only discussion on the WindyCity.pm list.  Or, let's merge the two  
> lists back together as they were.  

Everyone is invited to the downtown events.

> But you can't have it both ways.
>   
Why not?

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

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From andy at petdance.com  Wed Oct 31 09:44:45 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:44:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <4728B008.6050105@jrock.us>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
	<4728B008.6050105@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <F4FE26A1-9AAA-4238-8420-822BA44DC958@petdance.com>

>
>> But you can't have it both ways.
>>
> Why not?


Because if you're going to be exclusive about being in your own little  
world, I (and others) don't want to hear about it.  If the non-city  
folks are going to be excluded, then go exclude yourselves, but do it  
off of this list.

Nobody needs to monitor two lists.  Either combine the two lists, or  
stay off this one.

Andy



--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From jon at jrock.us  Wed Oct 31 09:52:14 2007
From: jon at jrock.us (Jonathan Rockway)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:52:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <F4FE26A1-9AAA-4238-8420-822BA44DC958@petdance.com>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>	<4728B008.6050105@jrock.us>
	<F4FE26A1-9AAA-4238-8420-822BA44DC958@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <4728B2BE.2090706@jrock.us>

Andy Lester wrote:
> Because if you're going to be exclusive about being in your own little
> world, I (and others) don't want to hear about it.  If the non-city  
> folks are going to be excluded, then go exclude yourselves, but do it  
> off of this list.
>   

How are we excluding anyone?  We are not trying to.  I personally
welcome you to attend the planned IT Crowd screening :)

Anyway, the reason the discussion happened on this list is because Nola
happened to have the idea while replying to a message on this list. 
It's a good idea, and exchanging ideas on the "wrong" list is definitely
better than not exchanging them at all.  I highly doubt that anyone
really cares which list is which, except you.

> Either combine the two lists, or stay off this one.
>   

Or what?

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

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From jim at jimandkoka.com  Wed Oct 31 09:56:55 2007
From: jim at jimandkoka.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:56:55 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <4728B2BE.2090706@jrock.us>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
	<4728B008.6050105@jrock.us>
	<F4FE26A1-9AAA-4238-8420-822BA44DC958@petdance.com>
	<4728B2BE.2090706@jrock.us>
Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70710310956q7a11e08dhb3a0684acaa15996@mail.gmail.com>

> > Either combine the two lists, or stay off this one.
> >
>
> Or what?

I'm hoping for a big West Side Story musical gang fight where we all
dance around and snap our fingers at each other.

-Jim.....

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Wed Oct 31 10:39:36 2007
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:39:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <F4FE26A1-9AAA-4238-8420-822BA44DC958@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <OFFFF83A1E.F3573B14-ON86257385.0060CAA0-86257385.0061021A@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

> Because if you're going to be exclusive about being in your own little 
world, I (and others) don't want to hear about it. 

Not that it's matter too much, as I'm in the furthest 'burb of them all 
("Madison, the nicest suburb of Chicago circa 2026") but I prefer to hear 
about them all on one list, even if it causes some duplication. <delete> 
is the easiest email handling process I have and w/ what, 800 msgs, I'm 
really good at it.

my .018 dollars worth (rounded up)

Andy Bach
Systems Mangler
Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932

Boo!

From brian.d.foy at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 11:50:01 2007
From: brian.d.foy at gmail.com (brian d foy)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:50:01 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <2715accf0710311150i6de8bb46pc6496aef94fd98b5@mail.gmail.com>

> But you can't have it both ways.

In which universe does that law of phsyics exist?

Perhaps you mean "I don't want you to have it both ways", but that
gets us back to the original flame war of you saying that you don't
control everything but acting like you do.

If you don't like that a Chicago.pm list talks about things in
Chicago, why don't you leave? Make another list and have whatever
rules that you like. It's really easy.

Don't pretend that this is your list though.

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
http://www.pair.com/~comdog/

From mrnicksgirl at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 12:02:24 2007
From: mrnicksgirl at gmail.com (Nola Stowe)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:02:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <OFFFF83A1E.F3573B14-ON86257385.0060CAA0-86257385.0061021A@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
References: <F4FE26A1-9AAA-4238-8420-822BA44DC958@petdance.com>
	<OFFFF83A1E.F3573B14-ON86257385.0060CAA0-86257385.0061021A@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
Message-ID: <43e95380710311202j3329fc2asae038d483aa6d0ba@mail.gmail.com>

all meeting announcements go to both lists

downtown lunch events only go to windycity

don't you guys have anything better to do?



On 10/31/07, Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov <Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov> wrote:
> > Because if you're going to be exclusive about being in your own little
> world, I (and others) don't want to hear about it.
>
> Not that it's matter too much, as I'm in the furthest 'burb of them all
> ("Madison, the nicest suburb of Chicago circa 2026") but I prefer to hear
> about them all on one list, even if it causes some duplication. <delete>
> is the easiest email handling process I have and w/ what, 800 msgs, I'm
> really good at it.
>
> my .018 dollars worth (rounded up)
>
> Andy Bach
> Systems Mangler
> Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov
> VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932
>
> Boo!
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


-- 
http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl
http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun

From arodland at comcast.net  Wed Oct 31 12:35:49 2007
From: arodland at comcast.net (Andrew Rodland)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:35:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <200710311435.49853.arodland@comcast.net>

On Wednesday 31 October 2007 11:29:46 am Andy Lester wrote:
> On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Jonathan Rockway wrote:
> > (more downtown events)++
>
> Please make up your mind about this division of groups.  If you're
> going to have WindyCity.pm be "downtown only", then keep the downtown-
> only discussion on the WindyCity.pm list.  Or, let's merge the two
> lists back together as they were.  But you can't have it both ways.
>

Or you, as the sole person who is constitutionally unable to get along with 
anyone, could leave the whole thing alone, and leave people to their friendly 
discussions, without jumping into conversations uninvited to snipe at people 
and dictate terms to the internet at large.

If you can't do that, then I'd kindly request that you have the decency to 
delete this list, so that those of us who prefer civility can move elsewhere 
without causing undue confusion.

Just, y'know, friendly suggestions.

Andrew

From mongers at bsod.net  Wed Oct 31 12:40:20 2007
From: mongers at bsod.net (Pete Krawczyk)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:40:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk]  Our Community (was Re: Possible Talk Subject...?)
In-Reply-To: <2715accf0710311150i6de8bb46pc6496aef94fd98b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
	<2715accf0710311150i6de8bb46pc6496aef94fd98b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710311359220.15895@steward.bsod.net>

Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
From: brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:50:01 -0400

}Don't pretend that this is your list though.

<http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk>:
>> Chicago-talk list run by andy at petdance.com


Really, this solves nothing.  I thought the goal here was one group, 
talking and communicating together, sharing knowledge and promoting Perl.  
What happened to that?

None of this looks good to anyone outside our group anymore, and I'll even 
wager to anyone inside the group.  We've had a couple new people show up 
this year to a meeting, but other than that, we haven't grown as a group 
or as a community.  We're supposed to be hosting a hackathon in a month 
and a half and a YAPC in seven months.  How can we even think of doing 
those things if we can't even get along as a community?

Today, I am ashamed to be a Chicago Perl Monger, because I can't stand to 
see a community torn apart by infighting.  I've only been around since the 
WDI days, but since we lost that space it's pretty much all been downhill.
It makes me believe that our usefulness as an educational, mentoring and 
cooperation community has come to an end.

One thing's for sure, though: Someone needs to pick up the ball and make 
this community whole again, by hook or by crook.  Until or unless that 
happens, our efforts at promoting Perl will be in vain.

-Pete K
-- 
Pete Krawczyk
    Chicago Perl Mongers
    mongers at bsod dot net

From perl at cromedome.net  Wed Oct 31 12:42:53 2007
From: perl at cromedome.net (Jason A. Crome)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:42:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Talk Subject...?
In-Reply-To: <200710311435.49853.arodland@comcast.net>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
	<200710311435.49853.arodland@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4A916DF3-E696-4859-BCE8-687957DD5441@cromedome.net>

Seriously, everyone needs to knock this shit off.  Go find a gym, get  
some boxing gloves, and go beat the crap out of each other there.   
Get it off the fucking list.  It doesn't do anyone any good.

Kthxbye.

On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:35 PM, Andrew Rodland wrote:

> On Wednesday 31 October 2007 11:29:46 am Andy Lester wrote:
>> On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Jonathan Rockway wrote:
>>> (more downtown events)++
>>
>> Please make up your mind about this division of groups.  If you're
>> going to have WindyCity.pm be "downtown only", then keep the  
>> downtown-
>> only discussion on the WindyCity.pm list.  Or, let's merge the two
>> lists back together as they were.  But you can't have it both ways.
>>
>
> Or you, as the sole person who is constitutionally unable to get  
> along with
> anyone, could leave the whole thing alone, and leave people to  
> their friendly
> discussions, without jumping into conversations uninvited to snipe  
> at people
> and dictate terms to the internet at large.
>
> If you can't do that, then I'd kindly request that you have the  
> decency to
> delete this list, so that those of us who prefer civility can move  
> elsewhere
> without causing undue confusion.
>
> Just, y'know, friendly suggestions.
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


From dave at obtiva.com  Wed Oct 31 13:00:02 2007
From: dave at obtiva.com (Dave Hoover)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:00:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Simple Photo Processing and Web Display
Message-ID: <11c8704e0710311300p65109bf6gbbfa6d5c09810158@mail.gmail.com>

Kent Cowgill has stepped forward to present at the next meeting in Wheaton.

Topic:  Simple Photo Processing and Web Display with Perl
Also appearing:  Imager, MIME::Lite,
Email::MIME::Attachment::Stripper, and Image::ExifTool
Location:  IIT-Rice Campus, 201 East Loop Rd, Wheaton, IL
Date/Time: Tuesday, November 13th, 2007 (7:00 PM - 9:00 PM)

I will be organizing the Wheaton meetings going forward.

See you there!

Dave Hoover
http://obtiva.com
http://redsquirrel.com/dave

From tom at yarrish.com  Wed Oct 31 12:46:18 2007
From: tom at yarrish.com (Tom Yarrish)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:46:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Our Community (was Re: Possible Talk Subject...?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710311359220.15895@steward.bsod.net>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
	<2715accf0710311150i6de8bb46pc6496aef94fd98b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0710311359220.15895@steward.bsod.net>
Message-ID: <906706B3-CB1C-4154-8A8A-26411995C7E0@yarrish.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Pete Krawczyk wrote:

>
> Really, this solves nothing.  I thought the goal here was one group,
> talking and communicating together, sharing knowledge and promoting  
> Perl.
> What happened to that?
>
> None of this looks good to anyone outside our group anymore, and  
> I'll even
> wager to anyone inside the group.  We've had a couple new people  
> show up
> this year to a meeting, but other than that, we haven't grown as a  
> group
> or as a community.  We're supposed to be hosting a hackathon in a  
> month
> and a half and a YAPC in seven months.  How can we even think of doing
> those things if we can't even get along as a community?
>
> Today, I am ashamed to be a Chicago Perl Monger, because I can't  
> stand to
> see a community torn apart by infighting.  I've only been around  
> since the
> WDI days, but since we lost that space it's pretty much all been  
> downhill.
> It makes me believe that our usefulness as an educational,  
> mentoring and
> cooperation community has come to an end.
>
> One thing's for sure, though: Someone needs to pick up the ball and  
> make
> this community whole again, by hook or by crook.  Until or unless that
> happens, our efforts at promoting Perl will be in vain.
>
> -Pete K
> -- 
> Pete Krawczyk
>     Chicago Perl Mongers
>     mongers at bsod dot net
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


Amen to that brother....my thoughts exactly.


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From zrusilla at mac.com  Wed Oct 31 13:31:18 2007
From: zrusilla at mac.com (Elizabeth Cortell)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:31:18 -0700
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Our Community (was Re: Possible Talk Subject...?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710311359220.15895@steward.bsod.net>
References: <9EFA307E-533A-4AA5-B30C-C3EF3F6A546F@c2group.net>
	<43e95380710310912u2589c89aqe7b3292cbb6788c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4728ABED.8050406@jrock.us>
	<CFF526C0-174F-441E-900F-AC52C8F86A24@petdance.com>
	<2715accf0710311150i6de8bb46pc6496aef94fd98b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0710311359220.15895@steward.bsod.net>
Message-ID: <D1CAE4F2-0115-1000-9858-AFB2A4FB601B-Webmail-10024@mac.com>

Hear, hear.   I am not enjoying watching this from afar.

I get along with ALL of my Chicago.pm homies because I make a POINT of it.  Each and every one of us belongs, no matter our particular strengths and shortcomings.  And let's face it, we all have...how to say it delicately...UNIQUE personalities.
  
Small communities, such as Perl Mongers, English departments, hippie communes, Maoist parties, minor Protestant sects or avant-garde composers, are prone to power struggles, infighting, holy wars and backstabbing.    We need to recognize this phenomenon and make it stop. 

Negative comments off list, please, and disagreements settled directly with the person in question. 

Liz Cortell

LA.pm, TO.pm, Chi.pm emerita


From andy at petdance.com  Wed Oct 31 14:02:01 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:02:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] list traffic is stopped 'til tomorrow
Message-ID: <6959EB46-D4F9-43E9-A916-AB60F1C72FE7@petdance.com>

I've put the list on "no list traffic gets thru" mode for now.

I'll look at turning it back on again tomorrow.

Andy

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance





From andy at petdance.com  Wed Oct 31 14:10:45 2007
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:10:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] List traffic part II
Message-ID: <09A9923D-FB85-492A-B13B-432C2F7CC375@petdance.com>

Let me try this again.

I've turned off the list traffic for today because this flamewar is  
pointless, and cooling down can only help.  If anyone really feels a  
need to have a flamefest, I'm sure there are other places it can  
happen.  If you feel a burning need to have a flamefest, start it up  
again tomorrow.

I hope tomorrow that maybe we can start fresh.

--
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance