From jason at multiply.org Thu Nov 3 15:25:01 2005 From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:25:01 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group Message-ID: <0EF1B78E-4DA0-4E50-8ADA-0CE077982415@multiply.org> Hi all. I would like to get some momentum going in the group again. To that end, what if we start throwing out meeting topics and try to plan out our next 3-4 months in a stretch. Performics has offered to be a regular host moving forward, which is great. If other venues open up as well, that is cool, but at least we have a home for a while. I am guessing that november and december are bad months for a lot of people (and we have no topic/plan for november yet!), so we could start planning for dec-march or jan-april. What does everyone want to talk about? Please reply with any presentation ideas that you would be willing to give (or to simply attend). I think our great turnout for the last meeting was due to the cross- language pollination happening, so perhaps we could talk to ChiPY or one of the other user groups to get some more exciting things happening. Thoughts? -jason gessner jason at multiply.org From mongers at bsod.net Thu Nov 3 17:08:08 2005 From: mongers at bsod.net (Pete Krawczyk) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:08:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <0EF1B78E-4DA0-4E50-8ADA-0CE077982415@multiply.org> Message-ID: Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group From: Jason Gessner Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:25:01 -0600 }I would like to get some momentum going in the group again. To that }end, what if we start throwing out meeting topics and try to plan out }our next 3-4 months in a stretch. I'm sure we could take some of the months that aren't "scheduled" for anything and start doing some YAPC planning and breakout. There's a lot to do and Josh and I could use all the help we can find :-) -Pete K -- Pete Krawczyk perl at bsod dot net From jason at multiply.org Thu Nov 3 18:29:21 2005 From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:29:21 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> Howdy, Pete. So, one YAPC Planning session, check! That was easy. 1 down, 7 to go! -jason On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Pete Krawczyk wrote: > Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group > From: Jason Gessner > Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:25:01 -0600 > > }I would like to get some momentum going in the group again. To that > }end, what if we start throwing out meeting topics and try to plan out > }our next 3-4 months in a stretch. > > I'm sure we could take some of the months that aren't "scheduled" for > anything and start doing some YAPC planning and breakout. There's > a lot > to do and Josh and I could use all the help we can find :-) > > -Pete K > -- > Pete Krawczyk > perl at bsod dot net > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From tom at yarrish.com Thu Nov 3 18:32:45 2005 From: tom at yarrish.com (Tom Yarrish) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:32:45 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> References: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> Message-ID: <7C8DEE09-E99B-4F70-8BB2-1E9D1FCE2A26@yarrish.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm guessing there'll be more than one.... On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Jason Gessner wrote: > Howdy, Pete. > > So, one YAPC Planning session, check! > > That was easy. 1 down, 7 to go! > > -jason > > On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Pete Krawczyk wrote: > >> Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group >> From: Jason Gessner >> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:25:01 -0600 >> >> }I would like to get some momentum going in the group again. To that >> }end, what if we start throwing out meeting topics and try to plan >> out >> }our next 3-4 months in a stretch. >> >> I'm sure we could take some of the months that aren't "scheduled" for >> anything and start doing some YAPC planning and breakout. There's >> a lot >> to do and Josh and I could use all the help we can find :-) >> >> -Pete K >> -- >> Pete Krawczyk >> perl at bsod dot net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDashcZWzkfeDiTw4RAsdhAJ9jVAR07Fpcc7pZuUiRG2Ho8VkcVACgiACg GftajpsW2V8IM+qwf6x6hT8= =Re8x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From andy at petdance.com Thu Nov 3 18:52:16 2005 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:52:16 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree and Phalanx Message-ID: Who did the Phalanxing of HTML::Tree? Anyone got the patches for it still? Sean Burke just handed control of it over to me. My first task: Get the patches from the Phalanxing applied and out for all the world to use! xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu Nov 3 21:15:32 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:15:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possibly the shortest module on CPAN Message-ID: <3A5937DCD9C280F1877AC90A@[192.168.1.2]> Two autoloads and a destroy [in a pear treeeeeeeee]. Makes life easier for anyone who has to deal with bulky constructors in heavily-forked environments (read: Apache). The second autoload does the real magic. Any suggestions on the POD appreciated. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jt at plainblack.com Fri Nov 4 04:13:16 2005 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 06:13:16 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <0EF1B78E-4DA0-4E50-8ADA-0CE077982415@multiply.org> References: <0EF1B78E-4DA0-4E50-8ADA-0CE077982415@multiply.org> Message-ID: I'm busy for the next few months, but I could give a talk on writing various types of mod_perl handlers and filters if anybody is interested? We've just converted WebGUI from an Apache::Registry/CGI stack to be entirly mod_perl2 so I have some good experience with doing that. I'll be available by February if you want me to take that talk. On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:25:01 -0600 Jason Gessner wrote: > Hi all. > > I would like to get some momentum going in the group again. To that > end, what if we start throwing out meeting topics and try to plan out > our next 3-4 months in a stretch. > > Performics has offered to be a regular host moving forward, which is > great. If other venues open up as well, that is cool, but at least > we have a home for a while. > > I am guessing that november and december are bad months for a lot of > people (and we have no topic/plan for november yet!), so we could > start planning for dec-march or jan-april. > > What does everyone want to talk about? > > Please reply with any presentation ideas that you would be willing to > give (or to simply attend). > > I think our great turnout for the last meeting was due to the cross- > language pollination happening, so perhaps we could talk to ChiPY or > one of the other user groups to get some more exciting things happening. > > Thoughts? > > -jason gessner > jason at multiply.org > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810 fax: 312-264-5382 http://www.plainblack.com I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam Savage From shild at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 4 06:58:23 2005 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:58:23 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: References: <0EF1B78E-4DA0-4E50-8ADA-0CE077982415@multiply.org> Message-ID: <1131116303.75376.40.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org> On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 06:13 -0600, JT Smith wrote: > I'm busy for the next few months, but I could give a talk on writing various types of > mod_perl handlers and filters if anybody is interested? We've just converted WebGUI from > an Apache::Registry/CGI stack to be entirly mod_perl2 so I have some good experience > with doing that. I'll be available by February if you want me to take that talk. > I would be very interested. > > On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:25:01 -0600 > Jason Gessner wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > I would like to get some momentum going in the group again. To that > > end, what if we start throwing out meeting topics and try to plan out > > our next 3-4 months in a stretch. > > > > Performics has offered to be a regular host moving forward, which is > > great. If other venues open up as well, that is cool, but at least > > we have a home for a while. > > > > I am guessing that november and december are bad months for a lot of > > people (and we have no topic/plan for november yet!), so we could > > start planning for dec-march or jan-april. > > > > What does everyone want to talk about? > > > > Please reply with any presentation ideas that you would be willing to > > give (or to simply attend). > > > > I think our great turnout for the last meeting was due to the cross- > > language pollination happening, so perhaps we could talk to ChiPY or > > one of the other user groups to get some more exciting things happening. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > -jason gessner > > jason at multiply.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > JT ~ Plain Black > ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810 > fax: 312-264-5382 > http://www.plainblack.com > > I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam Savage > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Scott T. Hildreth From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Fri Nov 4 02:40:04 2005 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 04:40:04 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fwd: Can the hoplites please send patches to Sean Burke? In-Reply-To: References: <20041231225459.GA8908@petdance.com> <20050103173745.GA25151@petdance.com> Message-ID: Here it is ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Shawn Carroll Date: Jan 3, 2005 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Can the hoplites please send patches to Sean Burke? To: "Chicago.pm chatter" , sburke at cpan.org Okay, attached is a patch for HTML-Tree. It's a diff against 3.18, Sean please review for submission. Chi.pm: This was accomplished by a svn diff -r18:127 --old trunk I couldn't get svn to give a diff of \releases\3.18 and \trunk maybe someone else can show me the magic to accomplish that. --Shawn On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:37:45 -0600, Andy Lester wrote: > On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 11:31:21AM -0600, Shawn Carroll (shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com) wrote: > > Has anyone done this yet? If not, I'll see if I can get svn to give > > me a patch this evening. > > So far as I know, no. Please post to sburke at cpan.org, and here. > > Thanks, > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee -- shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: patch Type: application/octet-stream Size: 31847 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20051104/5c72915a/patch-0001.obj From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Fri Nov 4 07:05:55 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:05:55 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] yapcchicago.org Message-ID: <49d805d70511040705h296c0678p76a716a51078809@mail.gmail.com> Is anyone on the list good at web design? If so, could you do a layout for yapcchicago.org? It doesn't need to be flashy, but I would like to have an attractive site. yapctoronto.org was last years site, and I personally think that ours should have a little more life to it. Also, we will be adding a wiki and such, so the more layout that can be put in style sheets that we can easily port over to a wiki, the better. The image that I have up there now is from flickr's creative commons area. If you do use an image from something like that, please let me know who and where to attribute the image to. Thanks, Josh From jason at multiply.org Fri Nov 4 21:00:34 2005 From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:00:34 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <1131116303.75376.40.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org> References: <0EF1B78E-4DA0-4E50-8ADA-0CE077982415@multiply.org> <1131116303.75376.40.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <212AFD36-C201-4D54-9ED9-A48D8C6B8830@multiply.org> On Nov 4, 2005, at 8:58 AM, Scott T. Hildreth wrote: > > > On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 06:13 -0600, JT Smith wrote: >> I'm busy for the next few months, but I could give a talk on >> writing various types of >> mod_perl handlers and filters if anybody is interested? We've just >> converted WebGUI from >> an Apache::Registry/CGI stack to be entirly mod_perl2 so I have >> some good experience >> with doing that. I'll be available by February if you want me to >> take that talk. >> > > I would be very interested. Sweet. 2+ down. This is easy. C'mon, what else do you guys have up your collective sleeves? -jason gessner jason at multiply.org From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 18:58:25 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 20:58:25 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> References: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> Message-ID: <49d805d70511051858g1fe8e3d5h2255c645179697e7@mail.gmail.com> > So, one YAPC Planning session, check! YAPC Planning probably needs to happen sooner than later. Do we want to do it as a normal Tuesday meeting? If so, would that be this upcoming 15th? The 8th or 22nd would work better for me. If we can live without a projector, then we can just meet up at my apartment's party room. From andy at petdance.com Sat Nov 5 20:10:35 2005 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:10:35 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511051858g1fe8e3d5h2255c645179697e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> <49d805d70511051858g1fe8e3d5h2255c645179697e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413C1AEA-E763-4685-AD24-6124FD0DE8D1@petdance.com> On Nov 5, 2005, at 8:58 PM, Joshua McAdams wrote: >> So, one YAPC Planning session, check! > > YAPC Planning probably needs to happen sooner than later. Do we want > to do it as a normal Tuesday meeting? If so, would that be th I would suggest that it shouldn't even wait until a meeting. -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 20:58:39 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:58:39 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <413C1AEA-E763-4685-AD24-6124FD0DE8D1@petdance.com> References: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> <49d805d70511051858g1fe8e3d5h2255c645179697e7@mail.gmail.com> <413C1AEA-E763-4685-AD24-6124FD0DE8D1@petdance.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70511052058y5d391baakc60256ad35373aa3@mail.gmail.com> In that case, is anyone free tomorrow? On 11/5/05, Andy Lester wrote: > > On Nov 5, 2005, at 8:58 PM, Joshua McAdams wrote: > > >> So, one YAPC Planning session, check! > > > > YAPC Planning probably needs to happen sooner than later. Do we want > > to do it as a normal Tuesday meeting? If so, would that be th > > I would suggest that it shouldn't even wait until a meeting. > > > -- > Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From zrusilla at mac.com Sat Nov 5 21:10:28 2005 From: zrusilla at mac.com (Elizabeth Cortell) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:10:28 -0800 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511052058y5d391baakc60256ad35373aa3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> <49d805d70511051858g1fe8e3d5h2255c645179697e7@mail.gmail.com> <413C1AEA-E763-4685-AD24-6124FD0DE8D1@petdance.com> <49d805d70511052058y5d391baakc60256ad35373aa3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15564225.1131253828608.JavaMail.zrusilla@mac.com> >In that case, is anyone free tomorrow? Around what time? I'm driving down from Wisconsin tomorrow afternoon. Liz From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 21:24:43 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 23:24:43 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <15564225.1131253828608.JavaMail.zrusilla@mac.com> References: <6EFD8F2E-0152-425A-9538-31943BB03B04@multiply.org> <49d805d70511051858g1fe8e3d5h2255c645179697e7@mail.gmail.com> <413C1AEA-E763-4685-AD24-6124FD0DE8D1@petdance.com> <49d805d70511052058y5d391baakc60256ad35373aa3@mail.gmail.com> <15564225.1131253828608.JavaMail.zrusilla@mac.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70511052124m240b11e5k8f87db96af201089@mail.gmail.com> I'm around all day, so it's really at the convenience of those who are interested in helping out. On 11/5/05, Elizabeth Cortell wrote: > > > > >In that case, is anyone free tomorrow? > > Around what time? I'm driving down from Wisconsin tomorrow afternoon. > > Liz > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Mon Nov 7 08:35:04 2005 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:35:04 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: <15564225.1131253828608.JavaMail.zrusilla@mac.com> Message-ID: > Around what time? I'm driving down from Wisconsin tomorrow afternoon. >From where in WI? I'm in Madison. Not sure I can make tomorrow but ... a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 "Reality is that which, when you don't believe in it, doesn't go away." Peter Viereck From steve at fisharerojo.org Mon Nov 7 08:42:26 2005 From: steve at fisharerojo.org (Steve Peters) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:42:26 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Organization and Planning for the group In-Reply-To: References: <15564225.1131253828608.JavaMail.zrusilla@mac.com> Message-ID: <20051107164226.GA27535@mccoy.peters.homeunix.org> On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 10:35:04AM -0600, Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote: > > Around what time? I'm driving down from Wisconsin tomorrow afternoon. > > > >From where in WI? I'm in Madison. Not sure I can make tomorrow but ... > I'm in (well, near really) Madison too. Maybe a weekend planning meeting? Steve Peters steve at fisharerojo.org From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 19:06:34 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:06:34 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] YAPC Planning Meeting Message-ID: <49d805d70511071906o6554632fxfa9ef8ee1f61a573@mail.gmail.com> Okay, so this weekend didn't work out, so let's try next weekend for a quick YAPC planning meeting. I'm out-of-town this upcoming WTF (hey, that's exactly how I feel about being out of town :). Let's do Saturday around 7:00 p.m. at my apartment. I'll open up a conference line if anyone wants to listen in, but can't make it. Address: 1250 S. Michigan Ave. Apt 907 The conference dial-in number: (641) 985-1000 and access code: 696309# If you are driving, there is public parking just North of Roosevelt on Michigan, on 14th, and also street parking all around the apartment. If you are taking the 'L', then get off at the Roosevelt stop on the Orange, Green, or Red lines. Here's a map: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1250+s+michigan+ave,+chicago,+il&iwloc=A&hl=en Just let the doorman know that you are here to see Josh at 907 and he/she will call me. From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Wed Nov 9 12:36:35 2005 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:36:35 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object Message-ID: Hey. Our main program uses a linked list of objects and passes around global pointers to the head of the list. They often walk the chain by: my $LocalList = $main::gListPtr; while ($LocalList) { .... $LocalList = $LocalList->next(); } (yes, the next() method returns the next object). Just looking at some code where they undef() the global pointer before appending a new list and got to wondering if GC would be then able to recover the 'orphaned' objects. The first on the list won't have an refs so it can go and so the 2nd ... etc. Just wondering if this *not* a good idea or what a way to examine the memory overhead. Thanks. a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 "Reality is that which, when you don't believe in it, doesn't go away." Peter Viereck From andy at petdance.com Wed Nov 9 12:57:00 2005 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:57:00 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051109205659.GA3041@petdance.com> On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 02:36:35PM -0600, Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov) wrote: > (yes, the next() method returns the next object). Just looking at some > code where they undef() the global pointer before appending a new list and > got to wondering if GC would be then able to recover the 'orphaned' > objects. The first on the list won't have an refs so it can go and so the > 2nd ... etc. Just wondering if this *not* a good idea or what a way to > examine the memory overhead. As long as they're not linking to each other in a circle, then yes, GC should pick 'em all up. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Wed Nov 9 12:57:00 2005 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:57:00 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051109205659.GA3041@petdance.com> On Wed, Nov 09, 2005 at 02:36:35PM -0600, Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov) wrote: > (yes, the next() method returns the next object). Just looking at some > code where they undef() the global pointer before appending a new list and > got to wondering if GC would be then able to recover the 'orphaned' > objects. The first on the list won't have an refs so it can go and so the > 2nd ... etc. Just wondering if this *not* a good idea or what a way to > examine the memory overhead. As long as they're not linking to each other in a circle, then yes, GC should pick 'em all up. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From zrusilla at mac.com Wed Nov 9 13:01:15 2005 From: zrusilla at mac.com (zrusilla@mac.com) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:01:15 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] YAPC::NA prep is well underway Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: camels.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20051109/eeb5422d/camels-0001.jpg -------------- next part -------------- Ringling Brothers supplies camels. Tribune photo, November 9: http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2005-11/20400570.jpg Liz Opportunity knocks. Temptation leans on the doorbell. From frag at ripco.com Wed Nov 9 13:24:43 2005 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:24:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote: > "Reality is that which, when you don't believe in it, doesn't > go away." Peter Viereck Ahem. s/Peter Viereck/Philip K. Dick/ > 2nd ... etc. Just wondering if this *not* a good idea or what a way to > examine the memory overhead. This works, if no other variables are referring to any individual node in the list; then you're stuck with the subtree from that point. (See the caveats in the XML::XPath man page, for instance.) -- Mike F. From jac at natura.di.uminho.pt Wed Nov 9 13:29:56 2005 From: jac at natura.di.uminho.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Castro) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 21:29:56 +0000 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051109212956.GA2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> * Mike Fragassi (frag at ripco.com) wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote: > > > "Reality is that which, when you don't believe in it, doesn't > > go away." Peter Viereck > > Ahem. s/Peter Viereck/Philip K. Dick/ And here's a pointer to a speech of his where he explains, among other things, why he came up with that expression: http://downlode.org/etext/how_to_build.html -- Jose Alves de Castro http://jose-castro.org/ From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Wed Nov 9 13:36:23 2005 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:36:23 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> "Reality is that which, when you don't believe in it, doesn't >> go away." Peter Viereck > Ahem. s/Peter Viereck/Philip K. Dick/ You know, I thought that was the case, but I got it out of a recent New Yorker article ... ... I guess I'm not the only one - appears Viereck used it in a lecture w/o attribution and so has gotten some credit for it. I'll update the sig. > This works, if no other variables are referring to any individual node Thanks. That's what I thought, but ... a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 "Reality is that which, when you don't believe in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick From andy at petdance.com Wed Nov 9 15:17:53 2005 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:17:53 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Please check HTML::Tree 3.19_01 Message-ID: <20051109231753.GA4041@petdance.com> I've uploaded 3.19_01 of HTML::Tree, in anticipation of 3.20. Please download it and check it out if you worked on HTML::Tree as part of the Phalanx meetings. Let me know that all is well. file: $CPAN/authors/id/P/PE/PETDANCE/HTML-Tree-3.1901.tar.gz size: 119220 bytes md5: 9b41dfed97605891829746433e6d2d7b It might be HTML-Tree-3.1901.tar.gz, or it might be HTML-Tree-3.19_01.tar.gz. I'm not sure how CPAN renaming works. Thanks, xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From frag at ripco.com Wed Nov 9 16:04:50 2005 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:04:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: <20051109212956.GA2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> References: <20051109212956.GA2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, [iso-8859-1] José Castro wrote: > > Ahem. s/Peter Viereck/Philip K. Dick/ > > And here's a pointer to a speech of his where he explains, among other > things, why he came up with that expression: > http://downlode.org/etext/how_to_build.html Cool; I didn't know that was online. Of course, it just now occurs to me that I've never seen Peter Viereck (or heard of him), let alone seen him & PKD in the same room at the same time. Hmm. -- Mike F. From jac at natura.di.uminho.pt Wed Nov 9 16:07:27 2005 From: jac at natura.di.uminho.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Castro) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:07:27 +0000 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: References: <20051109212956.GA2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: <20051110000727.GC2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> * Mike Fragassi (frag at ripco.com) wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, [iso-8859-1] Jos? Castro wrote: > > > > Ahem. s/Peter Viereck/Philip K. Dick/ > > > > And here's a pointer to a speech of his where he explains, among other > > things, why he came up with that expression: > > http://downlode.org/etext/how_to_build.html > > Cool; I didn't know that was online. > > Of course, it just now occurs to me that I've never seen Peter Viereck (or > heard of him), let alone seen him & PKD in the same room at the same time. Well, but Dick died in 1982, while Viereck is still active :-) > Hmm. > > -- Mike F. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jose Alves de Castro http://jose-castro.org/ From frag at ripco.com Wed Nov 9 16:17:26 2005 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:17:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: <20051110000727.GC2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> References: <20051109212956.GA2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> <20051110000727.GC2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, [iso-8859-1] Jos? Castro wrote: > Well, but Dick died in 1982, while Viereck is still active :-) Maybe that's what they want you to think. -- Mike F., scanning, darkly From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 19:59:08 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:59:08 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! Message-ID: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> IIT has been waiting on confirmation from their housing department for two days now... Right now, I still am pretty sure that the YAPC 2006 will be on June 26-28 2006, but can't announce until they get back with me. Is anyone still on for a YAPC planning meeting this weekend at 7? There is a lot to discuss. We need to try to get a jump on sponsorship... right now, there are only three loosy confirmed. We need to make up some events for sponsorship. Last year IBM did a cruise. This year, I've got estimate for dinner on the Sky Deck at Sears tower, a chartered 'L' tour of Chicago, and a lake and river cruise. Do any of you Illinoisans have some other ideas? Thanks, Josh From brian.d.foy at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 20:16:36 2005 From: brian.d.foy at gmail.com (brian d foy) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:16:36 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2715accf0511102016k68ad45f7q77c20187ae0a1cd3@mail.gmail.com> On 11/10/05, Joshua McAdams wrote: > Is anyone still on for a YAPC planning meeting this weekend at 7? I should be able to make it, although there is some opera party I might have to be at later. > There is a lot to discuss. We need to try to get a jump on > sponsorship... right now, there are only three loosy confirmed. Is that counting Stonehenge? > We > need to make up some events for sponsorship. Last year IBM did a > cruise. This year, I've got estimate for dinner on the Sky Deck at That's the Hancock? My wife says that's pretty nice. > Sears tower, a chartered 'L' tour of Chicago, and a lake and river > cruise. Do any of you Illinoisans have some other ideas? I'd like to have a touch football game in Soldier Field with Mike Ditka. Ditka versus Perl Mongers? (Ditka!) Also, the backstage tour of the Lyric Opera is full of geeky goodness. None of it has to do with computers though. We could rent out Pizzeria Uno (or Due). The Lincoln Park Zoo has a camel last I heard (although they had some trouble with PETA over that). -- brian d foy http://www.pair.com/~comdog/ From esinclai at pobox.com Thu Nov 10 20:22:01 2005 From: esinclai at pobox.com (Eric Sinclair) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:22:01 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8F369E66-F87A-4275-BACC-B954DC8C24C7@pobox.com> On Nov 10, 2005, at 9:59 PM, Joshua McAdams wrote: > [...] > We > need to make up some events for sponsorship. Last year IBM did a > cruise. This year, I've got estimate for dinner on the Sky Deck at > Sears tower, a chartered 'L' tour of Chicago, and a lake and river > cruise. Do any of you Illinoisans have some other ideas? The L trip is supposed to be very cool. This may be more of a sideshow, but the Adler Plane arium apparently has a whole bunch of technology behind the scenes (a bunch of Macs!), and might be able to provide a tour. I'm not certain who to ask, but could find out. I can't make a planning meeting this weekend, so just kibbitzing. -Eric -- esinclai at pobox.com aim/skype: esinclai http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ jabber: esinclai at gmail.com From frag at ripco.com Fri Nov 11 06:55:42 2005 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:55:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Joshua McAdams wrote: > Is anyone still on for a YAPC planning meeting this weekend at 7? I can make it. > There is a lot to discuss. We need to try to get a jump on > sponsorship... right now, there are only three loosy confirmed. We > need to make up some events for sponsorship. Last year IBM did a > cruise. This year, I've got estimate for dinner on the Sky Deck at > Sears tower, a chartered 'L' tour of Chicago, and a lake and river > cruise. Do any of you Illinoisans have some other ideas? I'd comparison shop the observation decks at the Hancock vs. the Sears. The former, imho, is a nicer view. Other possible venues for a dinner reception: Lincoln Park Zoo, the Notabaert, MSI, Art Institute, Field, Adler, Shedd, Navy Pier, MCA, Orchestra Hall, Soldier Field... Hey, apparently the U-505 sub seats 120! (http://www.msichicago.org/specialevents/event_spaces.html) There's also a number of Chicago Park District locales: http://www.chicagoparkdistrict.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/custom.spf/spf/home.cfm For other social events: if the weather's hot, I propose a trip to an ice rink. Also, the Chicago Architecture Foundation has a variety of tours available. (http://www.architecture.org/tours.aspx) And don't forget Fermilab. Though I don't know if there's much to do besides look at the Buffalo herd. I wonder if Stern Pinball offers tours of their factory. -- Mike F. From troy at whadda.com Fri Nov 11 09:35:14 2005 From: troy at whadda.com (Troy Denkinger) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:35:14 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4374D652.7070902@whadda.com> Joshua McAdams wrote: >Is anyone still on for a YAPC planning meeting this weekend at 7? >There is a lot to discuss. We need to try to get a jump on >sponsorship... right now, there are only three loosy confirmed. > I can approach my company about sponsoring at some level. What and/or how much are we looking at? Thanks, Troy From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Nov 11 10:36:32 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -- Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov > Hey. > > Our main program uses a linked list of objects and passes around global > pointers to the head of the list. They often walk the chain by: > my $LocalList = $main::gListPtr; > > while ($LocalList) { > .... > $LocalList = $LocalList->next(); > } > > (yes, the next() method returns the next object). Just looking at some > code where they undef() the global pointer before appending a new list > and got to wondering if GC would be then able to recover the 'orphaned' > objects. The first on the list won't have an refs so it can go and so > the 2nd ... etc. Just wondering if this *not* a good idea or what a way > to examine the memory overhead. This breaks if you use doubly-linked lists; which can be fixed by weakening the references. You might want to weaken the links sent out to sub-calls and keep the list-head alive in a struct in the creating class or its client. That saves you from having problems with metadata keeping the objects alive accidentally. A leak test basically creates and tears down a million object links and asks if the amout of memory in use afterwards is different than at the start. There are good memory leak tests in XML::LibXML and DBD::mysql if you want examples. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Nov 11 10:36:32 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -- Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov > Hey. > > Our main program uses a linked list of objects and passes around global > pointers to the head of the list. They often walk the chain by: > my $LocalList = $main::gListPtr; > > while ($LocalList) { > .... > $LocalList = $LocalList->next(); > } > > (yes, the next() method returns the next object). Just looking at some > code where they undef() the global pointer before appending a new list > and got to wondering if GC would be then able to recover the 'orphaned' > objects. The first on the list won't have an refs so it can go and so > the 2nd ... etc. Just wondering if this *not* a good idea or what a way > to examine the memory overhead. This breaks if you use doubly-linked lists; which can be fixed by weakening the references. You might want to weaken the links sent out to sub-calls and keep the list-head alive in a struct in the creating class or its client. That saves you from having problems with metadata keeping the objects alive accidentally. A leak test basically creates and tears down a million object links and asks if the amout of memory in use afterwards is different than at the start. There are good memory leak tests in XML::LibXML and DBD::mysql if you want examples. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Nov 11 10:37:54 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:37:54 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] linked list of object In-Reply-To: <20051109212956.GA2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> References: <20051109212956.GA2651@natura.di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: <4DA11FA92BA3303AFB7FA1D7@duke> -- Jos? Castro > * Mike Fragassi (frag at ripco.com) wrote: >> >> On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote: >> >> > "Reality is that which, when you don't believe in it, doesn't >> > go away." Peter Viereck >> >> Ahem. s/Peter Viereck/Philip K. Dick/ > > And here's a pointer to a speech of his where he explains, among other > things, why he came up with that expression: > http://downlode.org/etext/how_to_build.html There are paranoid schitzo's who don't really believe in their hallucinatios, the things just don't go away. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jason at multiply.org Fri Nov 11 11:17:56 2005 From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:17:56 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: <4374D652.7070902@whadda.com> References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> <4374D652.7070902@whadda.com> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2005, at 11:35 AM, Troy Denkinger wrote: > Joshua McAdams wrote: > >> Is anyone still on for a YAPC planning meeting this weekend at 7? >> There is a lot to discuss. We need to try to get a jump on >> sponsorship... right now, there are only three loosy confirmed. >> > I can approach my company about sponsoring at some level. What and/or > how much are we looking at? > > Thanks, > > Troy Same here.. I need a bit more information about what is desired before approaching them, however. I have already talked with them about participating in a job fair, so that is a plus. -jason gessner jason at multiply.org From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 20:41:23 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:41:23 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: <2715accf0511102016k68ad45f7q77c20187ae0a1cd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> <2715accf0511102016k68ad45f7q77c20187ae0a1cd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70511112041q1a2a3289m384c6af29d47dff6@mail.gmail.com> > > There is a lot to discuss. We need to try to get a jump on > > sponsorship... right now, there are only three loosy confirmed. > > Is that counting Stonehenge? Yes, that's counting you guys. > > We > > need to make up some events for sponsorship. Last year IBM did a > > cruise. This year, I've got estimate for dinner on the Sky Deck at > > That's the Hancock? My wife says that's pretty nice. I didn't know the Hancock had a similar feature, but I'm sure that would be good too. From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 20:43:29 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:43:29 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70511112043w70f63932p5255b29de5a90223@mail.gmail.com> > I wonder if Stern Pinball offers tours of their factory. You read my mind. I saw them on 190N a few weeks ago. I emailed them and they do offer tours, but only for small groups. They don't have a party room and don't rent out machines :( From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 20:44:52 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:44:52 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] AHHHHH!!! In-Reply-To: <4374D652.7070902@whadda.com> References: <49d805d70511101959ie900adeueee16418e5410df2@mail.gmail.com> <4374D652.7070902@whadda.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70511112044m544962efl9f90fe34eaa9b9c7@mail.gmail.com> > >Is anyone still on for a YAPC planning meeting this weekend at 7? > >There is a lot to discuss. We need to try to get a jump on > >sponsorship... right now, there are only three loosy confirmed. > > > I can approach my company about sponsoring at some level. What and/or > how much are we looking at? Hopefully tomorrow at the meeting we will get a sponsor request list started. When it gets done, I'll make it available.... thanks for helping. From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Mon Nov 14 14:41:40 2005 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:41:40 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language Message-ID: Er, big news, in MS land seems to be: What do Don and Anders mean by query facilities? Think about having an SQL-like syntax as a first-class part of C# or Visual Basic. This SQL-like query could run against in-memory data structures, XML files, and relational databases. The query results would be enumerable, so that you could walk through them with existing syntax, like foreach. The first example Don and Anders give in their overview paper on LINQ is this: using System; using System.Query; using System.Collections.Generic; class app { static void Main() { string[] names = { "Burke", "Connor", "Frank", "Everett", "Albert", "George", "Harris", "David" }; IEnumerable expr = from s in names where s.Length == 5 orderby s select s.ToUpper(); foreach (string item in expr) Console.WriteLine(item); } } The new classes are in the System.Query namespace, called in by the second using statement. The new LINQ syntax is the second executable statement, which fills the variable expr using a query expression, from s in names where s.Length == 5 orderby s select.ToUpper();. You can see immediately how that syntax has been inspired by the SQL SELECT query. This particular expression uses three of the standard query operators: Where, OrderBy, and Select. The others are OrderByDescending, SelectMany, Take, Skip, TakeWhile, SkipWhile, Concat, ThenBy, Reverse, GroupBy, Distinct, Union, Intersect, Except??? and a lot more, including conversion operators, equality operators, generation operators, quantifiers, and aggregate operators, all of which operate on sequences. In Visual Basic, the query expression above would be written as: Dim expr As IEnumerable(Of String) = _ Select s.ToUpper() _ From s in names _ Where s.Length = 5 _ Order By s As you can see, that's even closer to SQL than the C# version. For those of you fluent in languages like Scheme, the new query syntax is built on lambda expressions, which have been added to C# 3.0 and Visual Basic 9.0. If you're not already familiar with lambda expressions, they're like anonymous methods, only you can pass the functions around as arguments to other functions. At the implementation level, lambda expressions can be compiled as either code or data. ** Read more at http://www.byte.com/documents/byt1132002863923/ ** This seems surprisingly tame - am I missin something? a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 BPCP Act: Bankruptcy Prevention and Creditor Protection Act. Devil's Dictionary, (not) Ambrose Bierce http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Literature/Bierce/DevilsDictionary/ ----- Forwarded by Andy Bach/WIWB/07/USCOURTS on 11/14/2005 04:39 PM ----- "BYTE Update" 11/14/2005 04:35 PM To andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov cc Subject BYTE Update ============================================= || || A BYTE Newsletter || || November 14th, 2005 || || http://www.byte.com || || A CMP Service || ============================================= ************************************************************ The Best of BYTE, Volume 3: Number Crunching Number crunching is to computing what speaking prose is to talking--we all do it and we all tend to take it for granted. So while the articles presented in this issue of the Best of BYTE are important and useful, they also make number crunching seem new and exciting--and rekindle the sense of amazement we felt when we ran our first FORTRAN Fibonacci sequence program. http://newsletters.sdmediagroup.com/cgi-bin4/DM/y/er110FjZC50JSg0DcLY0GN ************************************************************ ==== This Week's Table Of Contents ======================= 1. INTRO * Mr. Computer Language Person, Martin Heller: "LINQ" 2. THIS WEEK'S TOP STORIES * Feature, Charles J. Cohen: "Designing a Gesture Recognition System" * Chaos Manor, Jerry Pournelle: "Don't Steal This Column" 3. IN THE NEWS * "IBM Dominates Supercomputer Rankings" 4. NEWSLETTER SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION - - - - - - - - - - - This Week's Sponsor - - - - - - - - - - - - The data warehouse project took... 25 weeks, 9 weekends and 7 all-nighters. So why is your boss getting the credit? Get the respect you deserve - search thousands of Tech Management Jobs: http://newsletters.sdmediagroup.com/cgi-bin4/DM/y/er110FjZC50JSg0Dcn10GH - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Dobb's Developer Library DVD: Release 1 Dr. Dobb's Developer Library DVD is a new, fully searchable DVD that includes 16 years of Dr. Dobb's Journal, 14 years of C/C++ Users Journal, three years of The Perl Journal, nearly four years of Dr. Dobb's Sourcebook, and thousands and thousands of lines of source code-- all on one DVD! Search across all magazines for a single term with a fast and powerful Java-based search engine, or browse the magazines individually in easy-to-read HTML. Regularly $129.95...Now only $79.95! Click here to purchase your copy today! http://newsletters.sdmediagroup.com/cgi-bin4/DM/y/er110FjZC50JSg0DcMC0G1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1. LINQ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ by Martin Heller As you probably know, Microsoft just launched Visual Studio 2005, SQL Server 2005, and BizTalk Server 2006. There's so much to tell about those products that I can't even scratch the surface in one column, and Microsoft is doing a media blitz, so I'd be wasting my breath. If you've been following the beta versions, you already know all about the parts of the products that you use yourself; if you've been waiting for the final products, well, they're here. Infragistics NetAdvantage 2005 Major launches like this one are both a marketing opportunity and a technical challenge for the ISVs who make companion products. Take Infragistics, for example. With NetAdvantage 2005, Infragistics has provided a large assortment of enhanced controls for use both in Windows Forms and Web Forms applications. I've found their controls a big time-saver in projects. For example, I recently started working on a market forecasting application for a client. It uses NetAdvantage controls for the charts, the grids, and for the input controls on the forms, saving me about 6 months work writing display code and input range-checking code. Infragistics has released a new version of this package quarterly for Visual Studio .NET 2003, while also tracking Visual Studio 2005 betas with versions of NetAdvantage that are one revision back. It's a huge job, since Microsoft made some major changes for .NET Framework 2.0. ISVs not only have to fix their code to be compatible, they have to take advantage of the new features in a compelling way. Infragistics seems to be doing that, from the betas I've tried; I'll have more to say when NetAdvantage 2005 for Visual Studio 2005 is formally released. LINQ The current Microsoft launch makes .NET Framework Version 2.0 the current supported product. Naturally, the development teams are thinking about what will go into Version 3.0. One of the most interesting ideas that has been publicly disclosed so far is the Language Integrated Query (LINQ) project. LINQ is the brainchild of Don Box and Anders Hejlsberg, and has been supported by a number of others on the Microsoft .NET, C#, and Visual Basic architecture teams. Basically, the idea is to add general-purpose query facilities to the .NET runtime, with specific extensions for XML and relational data. These query facilities are being added to C# 3.0 and Visual Basic 9.0, and technology previews of these were shown at the PDC in September. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were also added to a future version of managed C++, but I haven't yet seen anything about that. What do Don and Anders mean by query facilities? Think about having an SQL-like syntax as a first-class part of C# or Visual Basic. This SQL-like query could run against in-memory data structures, XML files, and relational databases. The query results would be enumerable, so that you could walk through them with existing syntax, like foreach. The first example Don and Anders give in their overview paper on LINQ is this: using System; using System.Query; using System.Collections.Generic; class app { static void Main() { string[] names = { "Burke", "Connor", "Frank", "Everett", "Albert", "George", "Harris", "David" }; IEnumerable expr = from s in names where s.Length == 5 orderby s select s.ToUpper(); foreach (string item in expr) Console.WriteLine(item); } } The new classes are in the System.Query namespace, called in by the second using statement. The new LINQ syntax is the second executable statement, which fills the variable expr using a query expression, from s in names where s.Length == 5 orderby s select.ToUpper();. You can see immediately how that syntax has been inspired by the SQL SELECT query. This particular expression uses three of the standard query operators: Where, OrderBy, and Select. The others are OrderByDescending, SelectMany, Take, Skip, TakeWhile, SkipWhile, Concat, ThenBy, Reverse, GroupBy, Distinct, Union, Intersect, Except??? and a lot more, including conversion operators, equality operators, generation operators, quantifiers, and aggregate operators, all of which operate on sequences. In Visual Basic, the query expression above would be written as: Dim expr As IEnumerable(Of String) = _ Select s.ToUpper() _ From s in names _ Where s.Length = 5 _ Order By s As you can see, that's even closer to SQL than the C# version. For those of you fluent in languages like Scheme, the new query syntax is built on lambda expressions, which have been added to C# 3.0 and Visual Basic 9.0. If you're not already familiar with lambda expressions, they're like anonymous methods, only you can pass the functions around as arguments to other functions. At the implementation level, lambda expressions can be compiled as either code or data. ** Read more at http://www.byte.com/documents/byt1132002863923/ ** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2. THIS WEEK'S TOP STORIES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FEATURE: Charles J. Cohen "Designing a Gesture Recognition System" Devices controlled by gesture input have commercial applications as well as military ones. Cybernet's Charles J. Cohen explains how computers interpret non-verbal language. http://www.byte.com/documents/byt1132000495079/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ COLUMN: Jerry Pournelle, Chaos Manor #304, Installment 1 "Don't Steal This Column" Jerry Pournelle argues that Google's plan to scan books and make them available in "snippets" over the Internet probably won't hurt book sales--but it will definitely hurt authors. http://www.byte.com/documents/byt1132001745612/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3. IBM Dominates Supercomputer Rankings ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ by Rick Merritt, EE Times IBM Corp. took top honors in the latest ranking of the world's top 500 supercomputers released Monday (Nov. 14) with its systems taking the three top spots and five of the top ten slots. IBM's BlueGene/L system installed at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL) ranked as the fastest supercomputer in the world at 280.6 TFlop/s, twice the performance the system demonstrated in earlier rankings. It is the first system to surpass the 100 TFlop/s mark and is expected to remain at the top of the rankings for some time. IBM has been building out the custom cluster architecture at LLNL. Ultimately it will sport 128,000 custom Power CPUs when it is completed. BlueGene/L is designed to use less power and require less floor space than competing supercomputers, in part by its use of very small individual nodes with only a few custom-built chips. Another version of BlueGene/L being built at IBM's T.J. Watson Research Center ranked as the second most powerful computer in the world at 91.20 TFlop/s Linpack performance. A separate IBM architecture at LLNL, dubbed ASIC Purple and based on IBM's pSeries 575 servers, took third place on the list at 63.4 TFlop/s. The Columbia system at NASA/Ames, a cluster based on Intel Itanium CPUs built by SGI, slipped to the No. 4 spot with 51.87 TFlop/s performance. IBM continues to be the dominant vendor on the list with 43.8 percent of the systems, slightly up from 43.2 percent a year ago. Hewlett-Packard maintained its second-place standing in the survey with 33.8 percent of all systems. IBM's systems represented 52.8 percent of the total installed performance of computers on the list, compared to 18.8 percent for HP. No other computer maker captured more than seven percent in any category. Intel microprocessors are at the heart of two-thirds (333) of all 500 systems. Eighty-one of the systems used Intel's latest 64-bit Xeon processors. AMD's 64-bit Opteron processors gained ground with 55 systems using them compared to only 25 systems in the ranking six months ago. IBM had the second most popular processor architecture among top 500 systems. Its Power chips appeared in 73 systems. Clusters continue to be the most popular architecture among systems on the list with 360 clusters in the current ranking. That's up from 296 clusters a year ago. On the current list, 249 clusters used Gigabit Ethernet as an interconnect, while 70 used Myricom's Myrinet. The least powerful system on the list was measured at 1.64 TFlop/s. That's up from 850.6 GFlop/s for the lowest ranking system one year ago. The Top 500 list is compiled by Hans Meuer of the University of Mannheim, Germany; Erich Strohmaier and Horst Simon of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; and Jack Dongarra of the University of Tennessee. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 4. NEWSLETTER SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Messages intended for publication in our "Letters to the Editor" area should be sent to: letters2editor at byte.com Sending a message to this address constitutes permission to use your message in part or whole. Please indicate which, if any, of the following information we may include with your letter: ~ Your real name, as it appears in your message body ~ Your title and affiliation (if applicable) ~ Your e-mail address. Messages intended for our internal use only--i.e., not for publication on BYTE.com's web site or elsewhere--should go to: feedback at byte.com Or, for a more extensive list of BYTE.com staff e-mail, go to: http://www.byte.com/staff.html Did someone forward this to you? Would you like to subscribe? http://www.byte.com/newsletter/ ADVERTISING INFORMATION For more information on advertising in CMP newsletters, contact our Web Sales Managers: Andrew Mintz (978) 897-3035 amintz at cmp.com Trice Alford (785) 838-7591 talford at cmp.com BYTE.com 2800 Campus Drive San Mateo, CA 94403 http://www.byte.com Copyright (c) 2005 CMP Media LLC. From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Nov 14 15:41:05 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:41:05 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> > For those of you fluent in languages like Scheme, the new query syntax > is built on lambda expressions, which have been added to C# 3.0 and > Visual Basic 9.0. If you're not already familiar with lambda > expressions, they're like anonymous methods, only you can pass the > functions around as arguments to other functions. At the > implementation level, lambda expressions can be compiled as either > code or data. i.e., sort of like the existing DBIx modules with anon subs/closures. > This seems surprisingly tame - am I missin something? No. It's just such a pain to get ANYthing done in these languates (or Java) that when it happens people get Really Excited(tm) and talk about how wonnerful it is that their language got the new, tame feature. Un- fortunately, Perl doesn't have a marketing budget so there aren't people in the various media explaining that we've been there/done that, and, by the way, have you seed what we've done since? -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Nov 14 15:41:05 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:41:05 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> > For those of you fluent in languages like Scheme, the new query syntax > is built on lambda expressions, which have been added to C# 3.0 and > Visual Basic 9.0. If you're not already familiar with lambda > expressions, they're like anonymous methods, only you can pass the > functions around as arguments to other functions. At the > implementation level, lambda expressions can be compiled as either > code or data. i.e., sort of like the existing DBIx modules with anon subs/closures. > This seems surprisingly tame - am I missin something? No. It's just such a pain to get ANYthing done in these languates (or Java) that when it happens people get Really Excited(tm) and talk about how wonnerful it is that their language got the new, tame feature. Un- fortunately, Perl doesn't have a marketing budget so there aren't people in the various media explaining that we've been there/done that, and, by the way, have you seed what we've done since? -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jjstrauss at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 18:37:41 2005 From: jjstrauss at gmail.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:37:41 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> References: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> Message-ID: <200511142037.41238.me@heyjay.com> On Monday 14 November 2005 5:41 pm, Steven Lembark wrote: > i.e., sort of like the existing DBIx modules with anon > subs/closures. > ? Can you do this in Perl? With an in memory structure, not by setting up some sqllite db. How? I've often wished I could set up some sort of in memory table and perform SQL upon it. Thanks Jay From don at drakeconsult.com Tue Nov 15 08:43:33 2005 From: don at drakeconsult.com (Don Drake) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:43:33 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl / MySQL developer Message-ID: I'm looking for a part-time developer (2-3 full days per week) for a client in the North Suburbs. The candidate needs to be proficient in Perl, MySQL and PHP. This is a 1099 contract opportunity with the potential to turn into a full-time position. Unfortunately, this is not a telecommuting opportunity, you must be onsite. Please send a resume and hourly rate to jobs at drakeconsult.com. Thanks. -Don Donald Drake President Drake Consulting http://www.drakeconsult.com/ 312-560-1574 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20051115/ea686217/attachment.html From hachi at kuiki.net Tue Nov 15 09:10:19 2005 From: hachi at kuiki.net (Jonathan Steinert) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:10:19 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: <200511142037.41238.me@heyjay.com> References: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> <200511142037.41238.me@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <437A167B.4080200@kuiki.net> A quick look on search.cpan.org and I've got at least a starting module for this... DBD::RAM I can't say how well it works, but it's been there since May of 2000. People have gone so far as to create DBD::Google (and I'm sure there's more beyond that) to do SQL-like querying... so it would have been rather strange if we didn't have this sort of thing in perl already. --Jonathan Jay Strauss wrote: >On Monday 14 November 2005 5:41 pm, Steven Lembark wrote: > > >>i.e., sort of like the existing DBIx modules with anon >>subs/closures. >> >> >> > >Can you do this in Perl? With an in memory structure, not by setting up some >sqllite db. > >How? I've often wished I could set up some sort of in memory table and >perform SQL upon it. > >Thanks >Jay >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From shild at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 15 16:10:57 2005 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:10:57 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: <437A167B.4080200@kuiki.net> References: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> <200511142037.41238.me@heyjay.com> <437A167B.4080200@kuiki.net> Message-ID: <1132099857.69670.9.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org> On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 11:10 -0600, Jonathan Steinert wrote: > A quick look on search.cpan.org and I've got at least a starting module > for this... > > DBD::RAM That was created by Jeff Zucker, who wrote DBD::AnyDB which will use RAM, CSV, ...etc http://search.cpan.org/~jzucker/ > > I can't say how well it works, but it's been there since May of 2000. > > People have gone so far as to create DBD::Google (and I'm sure there's > more beyond that) to do SQL-like querying... so it would have been > rather strange if we didn't have this sort of thing in perl already. > > --Jonathan > > Jay Strauss wrote: > > >On Monday 14 November 2005 5:41 pm, Steven Lembark wrote: > > > > > >>i.e., sort of like the existing DBIx modules with anon > >>subs/closures. > >> > >> > >> > > > >Can you do this in Perl? With an in memory structure, not by setting up some > >sqllite db. > > > >How? I've often wished I could set up some sort of in memory table and > >perform SQL upon it. > > > >Thanks > >Jay > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk at pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Scott T. Hildreth From jjstrauss at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 23:23:15 2005 From: jjstrauss at gmail.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 01:23:15 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: <1132099857.69670.9.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org> References: <437A167B.4080200@kuiki.net> <1132099857.69670.9.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200511160123.15968.me@heyjay.com> On Tuesday 15 November 2005 6:10 pm, Scott T. Hildreth wrote: > On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 11:10 -0600, Jonathan Steinert wrote: > > A quick look on search.cpan.org and I've got at least a starting module > > for this... > > > > DBD::RAM > > ? That was created by Jeff Zucker, who wrote DBD::AnyDB which will use > ? RAM, CSV, ...etc > > http://search.cpan.org/~jzucker/ I'm reading both now. Thanks for the direction Jay From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Nov 16 11:48:26 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:48:26 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: <437A167B.4080200@kuiki.net> References: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> <200511142037.41238.me@heyjay.com> <437A167B.4080200@kuiki.net> Message-ID: <9045E9D04FC9F84FD2C49076@duke> -- Jonathan Steinert > A quick look on search.cpan.org and I've got at least a starting module > for this... > > DBD::RAM MySQL's "HASH" engine uses an in-core ISAM tree to store non-persistent data. It is rather fast and supports SQL. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Nov 16 12:05:28 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:05:28 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] [ANNOUNCE] Cache::Mmap 0.09 (fwd) Message-ID: <58D845900540BA9A7C1BE07E@duke> Another way of making simple databases in core: use something like DBD::CSV with the Mmap to keep the accessed records in core with a persistent store on the disk. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Peter Haworth Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Cache::Mmap 0.09 > The uploaded file > > Cache-Mmap-0.09.tar.gz > > has entered CPAN as > > file: $CPAN/authors/id/P/PM/PMH/Cache-Mmap-0.09.tar.gz > size: 21463 bytes > md5: fef44673771a0f1f14982ae719f57221 > > This is a bugfix release, especially for users of operating systems which > enforce mmap()'s specified behaviour of failing to map locked files. > > From the README: > > This module provides a shared cache, using a memory mapped file. Very > useful for mod_perl applications. If routines are provided which interact > with the underlying data, access to the cache is completely transparent, > and the module handles all the details of refreshing cache contents, and > updating underlying data, if necessary. > > -- > Peter Haworth pmh at edison.ioppublishing.com > ``oh sure, that's what Microsoft WANT - but it'd be no good waking up in > the morning feeling blue and thinking "I did not correctly fall asleep. > To prevent myself thinking this again I must select sleep from my start > menu"'' -- Andrew Feldhaus ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jbalint at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 13:30:45 2005 From: jbalint at gmail.com (Jess Balint) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:30:45 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] MS langs get query language In-Reply-To: <9045E9D04FC9F84FD2C49076@duke> References: <0FCFA652578E54278D5A2BE1@duke> <200511142037.41238.me@heyjay.com> <437A167B.4080200@kuiki.net> <9045E9D04FC9F84FD2C49076@duke> Message-ID: <68cb949d0511161330p768ec7d7yb403e3a4bf2e8786@mail.gmail.com> I have some code laying around that lets you compile the mysql embedded server into the DBD module. So you can run the mysql server inside the perl process. It's a single-user single-process database, but has been very useful for me in the past. Jess From ijavaid at usa.net Thu Nov 17 09:36:44 2005 From: ijavaid at usa.net (Imran Javaid) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:36:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my $self = shift; Message-ID: <151JkqRC64384S13.1132249004@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net> Hello all, I am new to this user group and new to Chicago too and just wanted to let myself be known here. I've been using Perl for over 9 years now so am quite well versed in it. I'd love to be active in the user group community with whatever projects you have going on. I've been working at a (notorious) investment firm in downtown (starts with the letter C, yeah, you know which one) for the past 3 months on a contract basis. My contract will be ending sooner than I thought (eh, like tomorrow) so am in the market for something new. If any of you know of any Perl or C++ jobs, I'd love to know about it. Here is my introduction from my resume: "I am looking for a position as a software engineer where I can use my broad and extensive experience as a web, application, ETL developer, and as a quality assurance engineer. I am proficient in Perl and C/C++ and would like to find a position where I can utilize those skills as well as hone my skills in Java and other languages. I would also like to expand my career by taking on a project lead or managerial role." If any of you know a good position, I'd be happy to forward my complete resume to you. Thanks, Imran Javaid From jim at jimandkoka.com Thu Nov 17 10:12:45 2005 From: jim at jimandkoka.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:12:45 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my $self = shift; In-Reply-To: <151JkqRC64384S13.1132249004@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net> References: <151JkqRC64384S13.1132249004@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70511171012l40d60ef5ka6772757f46ecfe1@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I know one. I need a programmer. Well, Edison Schools needs a programmer. http://jobs.perl.org/job/3233 I shall ramble on a bit with the specifics, but suffice to say that if you're a serious perl guru who wants to work on a big perl app, you should send us a resume. If we look interesting, shoot off a cover letter and resume to our HR department. And, for grins, CC me on it as well (jthomason at tungstenlearning.com). Unfortunately, the recruiter working through our HR position is in a state of flux at the moment, so I don't know how quickly the company will get back to you. If I've got a good looking resume, I may be able to lean some pressure on them. Anyway, about us, Edison is the largest charter school provider in the country. Blah blah blah. Standard HR BS that you can find in the ad. Honestly, I need to write up another one that more directly appeals to programmers instead of the one that HR assembled that's so generic. Our office is up in Skokie on Golf Rd, right across the street from Old Orchard. We used to be more conveniently located at the last stop of the yellow line but moved to bigger digs. We're still right next to 94 though and a relatively easy drive from the city. Naturally, easier if you're towards the north side. Our office develops and supports a few products for the company that are all in house, deployed to our 450 schools, running with mod_perl on linux, with postgresql as the database. It all feeds into a gigantic oracle server for warehousing purposes. The app is huge and gnarly. Somewhere in excess of 100,000 lines or so, and over 250,000 if you count the html, templates, mason controllers, etc. So we need a serious perl guy who can hit the ground running and not be too intimidated. Of course, since this is also for an application that has organically grown in a lot of ways as opposed to being designed, there's a lot of cleanup work along the lines of "Here's your broom. Go fix it." I know that historical things weren't always written the way that they should've been, but unfortunately that's life. I don't bring this up to scare you, just to make sure you'd know what you're walking in to. I know that some programmers are really only happy if they're developing new stuff. While there's going to be a lot of new development, there's also going to be a tremendous amount of maintenance of the existing code. Beyond that, the environment is fun and pretty relaxed. The pay is good, standard benefits are available, and as an added perk we have off the week between Christmas and New Year's (most schools aren't in session then, you see, so neither are we). Assuming your resume looks acceptable to HR & myself (and again, unfortunately I don't know how long that would take at the moment), we'll arrange to send you out a timed test to measure your abilities. Assuming that also goes well, we'd arrange to bring you in for an interview at some point after that. -Jim.... On 11/17/05, Imran Javaid wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to this user group and new to Chicago too and just wanted to let > myself be known here. I've been using Perl for over 9 years now so am quite > well versed in it. I'd love to be active in the user group community with > whatever projects you have going on. > > I've been working at a (notorious) investment firm in downtown (starts with > the letter C, yeah, you know which one) for the past 3 months on a contract > basis. My contract will be ending sooner than I thought (eh, like tomorrow) so > am in the market for something new. If any of you know of any Perl or C++ > jobs, I'd love to know about it. Here is my introduction from my resume: > > "I am looking for a position as a software engineer where I can use my broad > and extensive experience as a web, application, ETL developer, and as a > quality assurance engineer. I am proficient in Perl and C/C++ and would like > to find a position where I can utilize those skills as well as hone my skills > in Java and other languages. I would also like to expand my career by taking > on a project lead or managerial role." > > If any of you know a good position, I'd be happy to forward my complete resume > to you. > > Thanks, > Imran Javaid > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From ehs at pobox.com Thu Nov 17 10:56:17 2005 From: ehs at pobox.com (Edward Summers) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:56:17 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my $self = shift; In-Reply-To: <151JkqRC64384S13.1132249004@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net> References: <151JkqRC64384S13.1132249004@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <625CA050-1228-4502-9C61-7FEACBE1E39B@pobox.com> On Nov 17, 2005, at 11:36 AM, Imran Javaid wrote: > If any of you know a good position, I'd be happy to forward my > complete resume to you. I just noticed recently that monster has rss feeds now. So you can create a job agent for Perl and/or C/C++ and drop the RSS feed URL into your reader and get updates that way. Pretty handy if you're new to the chicago area and are trying to get the lay of the land. Not sure if that helps much, good luck w/ your search. //Ed From adam at jamradar.com Thu Nov 17 19:46:24 2005 From: adam at jamradar.com (Adam) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:46:24 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Sort of New to Perl References: <151JkqRC64384S13.1132249004@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <002701c5ebf2$a8dac610$0200a8c0@PANASONIULSWMR> Hi, I just joined the mailing list and want to introduce myself. Some of you may have seen me on Perlmonks under the username "awohld". I live in Saint Charles and have been programming Perl for about 10 months. I work for a communications company and have been making Perl programs in my free time to make job easer for me and my coworkers. I've spent a lot of time reading books on Java and C++, but Perl, by far, came in the most useful for what I need and like to do. Lately I've been building web spiders to mine internal company data and create custom reports and tools. There's a lot of automation that can be done for my job; some people spend an hour a day running reports that Perl can automate. The modules I've been using heavily are DBI, DBD::CSV, DBD::MySQL, WWW::Mechanize, LWP, CGI, and HTML::TokeParser. I'd really like to expand my knowledge of Perl and see myself using it for a long time to come. I'd like to show up to some of the meetings and learn some more Perl stuff; specifically spidering, web apps, database stuff, and I really need to learn all about data structures. Accessing and manipulating arrays of hashes and that sort of stuff always tripps me up. Thanks Adam From ng at johnwlong.com Thu Nov 17 19:48:23 2005 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:48:23 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Django / Rails Event Message-ID: <437D4F07.2050906@johnwlong.com> A date and location have been set for the Django / Rails event. December 3rd at DePaul. The details are here: http://snakesandrubies.com This mini-conference is going to be a great opportunity for all the local users groups to get together and compare web development notes. It's pretty exciting. Hope to see you there... :-) -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 18 15:56:56 2005 From: tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com (tiger peng) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:56:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] my $self = shift; return $self if not wantarray; #of contractors In-Reply-To: <151JkqRC64384S13.1132249004@uwdvg003.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <20051118235656.92460.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Perl guys, my $self return to the job market from the 'C' too. I have 9 years IT experience (5 years at Chicago in marketing and financial industry with heavily using Perl/ksh for Data Warehouse). I am looking for Perl, Shell Scripts and/or data warehouse jobs. If any of you know a good position, I'd be happy to send my complete resume to you. Thanks in advance, Ge Peng --- Imran Javaid wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to this user group and new to Chicago too > and just wanted to let > myself be known here. I've been using Perl for over > 9 years now so am quite > well versed in it. I'd love to be active in the user > group community with > whatever projects you have going on. > > I've been working at a (notorious) investment firm > in downtown (starts with > the letter C, yeah, you know which one) for the past > 3 months on a contract > basis. My contract will be ending sooner than I > thought (eh, like tomorrow) so > am in the market for something new. If any of you > know of any Perl or C++ > jobs, I'd love to know about it. Here is my > introduction from my resume: > > "I am looking for a position as a software engineer > where I can use my broad > and extensive experience as a web, application, ETL > developer, and as a > quality assurance engineer. I am proficient in Perl > and C/C++ and would like > to find a position where I can utilize those skills > as well as hone my skills > in Java and other languages. I would also like to > expand my career by taking > on a project lead or managerial role." > > If any of you know a good position, I'd be happy to > forward my complete resume > to you. > > Thanks, > Imran Javaid > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From jason at multiply.org Fri Nov 18 19:02:57 2005 From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:02:57 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my $self = shift; return $self if not wantarray; #of contractors In-Reply-To: <20051118235656.92460.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051118235656.92460.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3AC36AD1-4D5F-4A2B-A44C-34D4D3387121@multiply.org> Howdy all. Performics is still hiring for perl positions for next year. http://www.performics.com/our_company_files/careers.htm#perl We are a leading Search Engine and Affiliate Marketing company and push perl pretty hard in a high volume environment. If anyone has any questions, please drop me a line. -jason gessner jason at multiply.org On Nov 18, 2005, at 5:56 PM, tiger peng wrote: > Hi Perl guys, > > my $self return to the job market from the 'C' too. > > I have 9 years IT experience (5 years at Chicago in > marketing and financial industry with heavily using > Perl/ksh for Data Warehouse). > > I am looking for Perl, Shell Scripts and/or data > warehouse jobs. > If any of you know a good position, I'd be happy to > send my complete resume to you. > > Thanks in advance, > Ge Peng > > > --- Imran Javaid wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I am new to this user group and new to Chicago too >> and just wanted to let >> myself be known here. I've been using Perl for over >> 9 years now so am quite >> well versed in it. I'd love to be active in the user >> group community with >> whatever projects you have going on. >> >> I've been working at a (notorious) investment firm >> in downtown (starts with >> the letter C, yeah, you know which one) for the past >> 3 months on a contract >> basis. My contract will be ending sooner than I >> thought (eh, like tomorrow) so >> am in the market for something new. If any of you >> know of any Perl or C++ >> jobs, I'd love to know about it. Here is my >> introduction from my resume: >> >> "I am looking for a position as a software engineer >> where I can use my broad >> and extensive experience as a web, application, ETL >> developer, and as a >> quality assurance engineer. I am proficient in Perl >> and C/C++ and would like >> to find a position where I can utilize those skills >> as well as hone my skills >> in Java and other languages. I would also like to >> expand my career by taking >> on a project lead or managerial role." >> >> If any of you know a good position, I'd be happy to >> forward my complete resume >> to you. >> >> Thanks, >> Imran Javaid >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From frag at ripco.com Mon Nov 21 10:46:14 2005 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:46:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] YAPC 2005 webpage -- gone missing Message-ID: http://www.yapc.org/America/ has been redirected to http://yapcchicago.org/. This is great, except that I need to look something up from the schedules of YAPC 2005, and I can't find a URL for it. (I guessed www.yapc.org/America/2005, but no dice.) Does anyone know what the URLs for past YAPCs are now? -- Mike F. From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 10:48:30 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:48:30 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] YAPC 2005 webpage -- gone missing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49d805d70511211048q2ec87f02w4e7bc757ef0009e2@mail.gmail.com> > http://www.yapc.org/America/ has been redirected to > http://yapcchicago.org/. This is great, except that I need to look > something up from the schedules of YAPC 2005, and I can't find a URL for > it. (I guessed www.yapc.org/America/2005, but no dice.) You were close: http://yapc.org/America/previous-years/2005/ From frag at ripco.com Mon Nov 21 11:06:51 2005 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:06:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] YAPC 2005 webpage -- gone missing In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511211048q2ec87f02w4e7bc757ef0009e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511211048q2ec87f02w4e7bc757ef0009e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks! -- Mike F. On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Joshua McAdams wrote: > You were close: http://yapc.org/America/previous-years/2005/ From zrusilla at mac.com Mon Nov 21 13:04:27 2005 From: zrusilla at mac.com (zrusilla@mac.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:04:27 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next YAPC::NA 2006 planning meeting? Message-ID: When are we getting together again? Liz "From here to there it ain't far enough, but from here to here it's too short." -- Capt. Beefheart From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 20:20:56 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:20:56 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next YAPC::NA 2006 planning meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> > When are we getting together again? I'm pretty tied up except for Friday and Sunday... possibly one of those days. At the next meeting I'd like to finalize dates for the call for papers, opening of registration, and price-hike of registration. We need to get some content on the website, as well as, some wikis. We also need to get some advertising together. Liz, I don't' want to use your t-shirt design for the conference advertising because it will be a good surprise for the conference. Probably just generic stuff that looks like the website for branding purposes. Just let me know when would be best. From zrusilla at mac.com Mon Nov 21 20:35:32 2005 From: zrusilla at mac.com (zrusilla@mac.com) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:35:32 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next YAPC::NA 2006 planning meeting: Sunday? In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2586b8002f8edb37f3999a48064f58eb@mac.com> How about Sunday? I'm away for the holiday. So are lots of other people. Liz On Nov 21, 2005, at 10:20 PM, Joshua McAdams wrote: > I'm pretty tied up except for Friday and Sunday... possibly one of > those days. Hustlers of the world, there is one Mark you cannot beat: The Mark Inside... --William S. Burroughs, "Naked Lunch" From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 20:56:16 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:56:16 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next YAPC::NA 2006 planning meeting: Sunday? In-Reply-To: <2586b8002f8edb37f3999a48064f58eb@mac.com> References: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> <2586b8002f8edb37f3999a48064f58eb@mac.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70511212056w35993a1fpa33cec333ea94f64@mail.gmail.com> > How about Sunday? I'm away for the holiday. So are lots of other people. Works for me. Here are the details: Sunday, 3:00 p.m., 1250 S. Michigan Ave., Apt. 907 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1250+S.+Michigan+Ave.,+Chicago,+IL&iwloc=A&hl=en From jac at natura.di.uminho.pt Tue Nov 22 02:53:25 2005 From: jac at natura.di.uminho.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Castro) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:53:25 +0000 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next YAPC::NA 2006 planning meeting? In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051122105325.GA14749@natura.di.uminho.pt> * Joshua McAdams (joshua.mcadams at gmail.com) wrote: > > When are we getting together again? > > I'm pretty tied up except for Friday and Sunday... possibly one of those days. > > At the next meeting I'd like to finalize dates for the call for > papers, opening of registration, and price-hike of registration. We > need to get some content on the website, as well as, some wikis. Hi, guys. You may or may not know this already, so I'll say it anyway: * when schedulling things like the date for the CPF, the deadline for talk proposals, the deadline for this or that, always schedulle those in a way that if you have to slide them one or two weeks it won't be a big problem Even if you think everything will go smoothly, it won't. As an example, the server hosting YAPC::EU::2005 went down during the three days surrounding the deadline for talk proposals, and no one was able to reach if physically and solve the problem. We ended up moving that deadline about one week, so that people could still make their proposals. Fortunately, somebody had already told us we should schedulle things this way, so even with all the moving of dates that we just couldn't control, we managed to get everything ready ahead of time. Had we schedulled things thinking that everything would work out OK... I think we'd probably be hosting the conference next week or so O:-) Cheers, jac -- Jose Alves de Castro http://jose-castro.org/ From jac at natura.di.uminho.pt Tue Nov 22 02:55:55 2005 From: jac at natura.di.uminho.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Castro) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:55:55 +0000 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next YAPC::NA 2006 planning meeting? In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051122105555.GB14749@natura.di.uminho.pt> * Joshua McAdams (joshua.mcadams at gmail.com) wrote: > need to get some content on the website, as well as, some wikis. One thing that worked great for us was to have new content available every week or so, and have a mailing list where we would send (ir)regular reports telling people what was new on the website and what had been done during that week or two. This kept people *very* interested throughout the year. You can see our reports at the bottom of http://braga.yapceurope.org/?SiteMap (add a little humour to them, as it helps starting conversation on the mailing list). Regards, jac -- Jose Alves de Castro http://jose-castro.org/ From me at heyjay.com Tue Nov 22 20:24:58 2005 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:24:58 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I'm missing types.h Message-ID: <200511222224.58863.me@heyjay.com> Hi, I just did a fresh install of ubuntu on my laptop. Now when I try to use CPAN to install anything I get the error: /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE/perl.h:382:24: error: sys/types.h: No such file or directory as the first error in a whole long list of errors. Anyone know what I need to install or configure to solve this? Thanks Jay From ijavaid at usa.net Tue Nov 22 20:34:44 2005 From: ijavaid at usa.net (Imran Javaid) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:34:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I'm missing types.h Message-ID: <756JkweIS7552S06.1132720484@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> I would assume that you didn't install the development tools/headers. I haven't used ubuntu, but in other distros there is a separate package for development tools and headers. Imran ------ Original Message ------ Received: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:25:23 PM CST From: Jay Strauss To: chicago-talk at pm.org Subject: [Chicago-talk] I'm missing types.h > Hi, > > I just did a fresh install of ubuntu on my laptop. Now when I try to use CPAN > to install anything I get the error: > > /usr/lib/perl/5.8/CORE/perl.h:382:24: error: sys/types.h: No such file or > directory > > as the first error in a whole long list of errors. > > Anyone know what I need to install or configure to solve this? > > Thanks > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From me at heyjay.com Tue Nov 22 20:54:49 2005 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:54:49 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I'm missing types.h In-Reply-To: <756JkweIS7552S06.1132720484@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> References: <756JkweIS7552S06.1132720484@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <200511222254.49427.me@heyjay.com> On Tuesday 22 November 2005 10:34 pm, Imran Javaid wrote: > I would assume that you didn't install the development tools/headers. I > haven't used ubuntu, but in other distros there is a separate package for > development tools and headers. > > Imran > Thanks Imran, I just found it: libc-dev Jay From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Nov 23 12:08:42 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:08:42 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I'm missing types.h In-Reply-To: <200511222254.49427.me@heyjay.com> References: <756JkweIS7552S06.1132720484@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> <200511222254.49427.me@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <6CE144FE72784222E9CEB260@duke> > libc-dev Suggestion for all distros: install all of the lib's (dev or otherwise) that you don't knowingly replace with your own once the thing is up). -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From ng at johnwlong.com Thu Nov 24 15:35:09 2005 From: ng at johnwlong.com (John W. Long) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:35:09 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] RSVP: Rails and Django Meeting Message-ID: <43864E2D.3010604@johnwlong.com> All, I've added an RSVP system to the Web site: http://snakesandrubies.com/event/details/#rsvp-1 Please take a moment to RSVP there. I closed the ability to RSVP on the Meetup site, so if you already RSVPed, you will need to do so again. Hope to see you at the event! -- John Long http://wiseheartdesign.com From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 10:14:44 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:14:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fwd: Next YAPC::NA 2006 planning meeting: Sunday? In-Reply-To: <49d805d70511212056w35993a1fpa33cec333ea94f64@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70511212020l7db2fb2du9435b85c9e6980b3@mail.gmail.com> <2586b8002f8edb37f3999a48064f58eb@mac.com> <49d805d70511212056w35993a1fpa33cec333ea94f64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70511271014s682eaf5i2748d768f64c82a@mail.gmail.com> Just a reminder for todays planning meeting: Sunday, 3:00 p.m., 1250 S. Michigan Ave., Apt. 907 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1250+S.+Michigan+Ave.,+Chicago,+IL&iwloc=A&hl=en From ehs at pobox.com Mon Nov 28 18:53:09 2005 From: ehs at pobox.com (Edward Summers) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:53:09 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fwd: [DGLUG] Need a Perl programmer.. References: <20051129005146.GA86013@lilly.csoft.net> Message-ID: In case there is any interest: -- Begin forwarded message: > From: Brian Kelly > Date: November 28, 2005 6:51:46 PM CST > To: DGLUG > Subject: [DGLUG] Need a Perl programmer.. > Reply-To: depaul-lug at linux.depaul.edu > > I just wanted to let any able-bodied Perl programmers know that my > place of > employment is looking for help. We need a permanent full-time Perl > programmer > who is a quick learner. It's in a Windows environment, but I've got > Cygwin up > and running for most of my day-to-day. The position is in Burr > Ridge, which is > near the intersection of I-55 and I-294. If anyone's interested, > email me off > list, and we can discuss more. > -Brian > > -- > Computers can figure out all kinds of problems, except the things in > the world that just don't add up. > From jt at plainblack.com Wed Nov 30 14:22:41 2005 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:22:41 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE Message-ID: My entire Perl life (10 years now), I've been using vim for editing my perl programs. It's fair to say I've written a million lines of perl code in vim. Though I love vim, I don't want to be missing out on things that could make my life easier. I'm wondering, what do you use for your Perl IDE? I've recently started looking at Komodo, Eclipse, and Xcode. Any thumbs up or down on those? Any pointers in other directions? JT ~ Plain Black ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810 fax: 312-264-5382 http://www.plainblack.com I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam Savage From tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 30 14:34:08 2005 From: tigerpeng2001 at yahoo.com (tiger peng) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:34:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051130223408.86205.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> If on windows, textpad is oaky. I stick on vi(m). I typed in a lot vi commands even when I worked with notpad or textpad. That's realy a mess. --- JT Smith wrote: > My entire Perl life (10 years now), I've been using > vim for editing my perl programs. > It's fair to say I've written a million lines of > perl code in vim. Though I love vim, I > don't want to be missing out on things that could > make my life easier. I'm wondering, > what do you use for your Perl IDE? > > I've recently started looking at Komodo, Eclipse, > and Xcode. Any thumbs up or down on > those? Any pointers in other directions? > > JT ~ Plain Black > ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810 > fax: 312-264-5382 > http://www.plainblack.com > > I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam > Savage > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From jt at plainblack.com Wed Nov 30 14:39:51 2005 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:39:51 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE In-Reply-To: <20051130223408.86205.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051130223408.86205.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I work on Mac, Linux, and Windows (pretty much in that order). I use Notepad++ on Windows sometimes, but pretty much vim everywhere. I'll probably stick with vim on Linux and Windows, because most of my dev work is done on Mac. So I'm really looking for whether getting Mac IDE will help me be more productive. On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:34:08 -0800 (PST) tiger peng wrote: > If on windows, textpad is oaky. > > I stick on vi(m). I typed in a lot vi commands even > when I worked with notpad or textpad. That's realy a > mess. > > > --- JT Smith wrote: > >> My entire Perl life (10 years now), I've been using >> vim for editing my perl programs. >> It's fair to say I've written a million lines of >> perl code in vim. Though I love vim, I >> don't want to be missing out on things that could >> make my life easier. I'm wondering, >> what do you use for your Perl IDE? >> >> I've recently started looking at Komodo, Eclipse, >> and Xcode. Any thumbs up or down on >> those? Any pointers in other directions? >> >> JT ~ Plain Black >> ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810 >> fax: 312-264-5382 >> http://www.plainblack.com >> >> I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam >> Savage >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810 fax: 312-264-5382 http://www.plainblack.com I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam Savage From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Nov 30 14:54:47 2005 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:54:47 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F318B18E9C14AA1660A1D1B@duke.wrkhors.com> > I've recently started looking at Komodo, Eclipse, and Xcode. Any thumbs > up or down on those? Any pointers in other directions? Main thing about Perl is that the syntax is so flexable -- including Filter::Simple items like Yada::Yada::Yada or Inline -- that none of the IDE's really does a good job of dealing with the code: they were all adapted from C which has a much more rigid structure. I use vile (xvile) for most things: there is a highlighter that I can turn off easily when not searching for syntax bugs and it handles multiple buffers gracefully. The extension language is perl, which helps (vs. lisp in emacs). -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark at wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jim at jimandkoka.com Wed Nov 30 16:59:17 2005 From: jim at jimandkoka.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:59:17 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE In-Reply-To: References: <20051130223408.86205.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70511301659id73e992kdfdc5a5e08a54ba1@mail.gmail.com> On 11/30/05, JT Smith wrote: > I work on Mac, Linux, and Windows (pretty much in that order). I use Notepad++ on > Windows sometimes, but pretty much vim everywhere. I'll probably stick with vim on Linux > and Windows, because most of my dev work is done on Mac. So I'm really looking for > whether getting Mac IDE will help me be more productive. It depends upon how much of a pain in the ass you find vim. I use it for about 33% of my dev work (50% of my perl), but I mainly open it up to edit existing code or write short programs, I rarely will write a large hunk of an app or a new module in vim. I don't like it for big stuff. A former coworker of mine used vim exclusively and knew the editor so well that he made me look like a total n00b by comparison. He hated using anything else. So if you're really truly a vim guy and love it through and through, I'd say stick with it. Me? Since I'm a Mac guy first and a developer second, I really like Text Wrangler from Bare Bones. Way back in the day, I used BBEdit (also from Bare Bones) and that's what I did the bulk of my development on for about 7 years. Text Wrangler is Bare Bones' current free product. It does virtually everything BBEdit does, and the stuff it doesn't do I don't miss. And it's a good $150 cheaper (or so, I can't recall exactly). You can syntax check and run your code from directly within it, and it has a built in ftp/sftp client for editing code directly on a remote server. XCode I use exclusively for my objective-C and the only time I've done any perl work in it is the once-in-a-blue-moon when I fire up a camelbones project. I like XCode. It's a really good IDE, but I personally don't see any benefit to doing my perl development in it. If you're mainly interested in using a real true IDE, I can say that XCode is a good one and I like using it, but I can't vouch for whether or not it'd be a good choice for Perl. I find that Text Wrangler and vim go well together. One's better at some things, the other's better at others. Right tool for the job, that sort of thing. -Jim..... From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Wed Nov 30 18:01:20 2005 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:01:20 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE Message-ID: Sorry for the cutnpaste and the lack of links - I'm in an impoverished access situation. Oh, and sorry for the forward of AS Komodo announce - it just happened along as you asked. I use vi and vim when I'm lucky. I'd like to try Eclipse but I'm on page 123 of the Manning Eclipse in Action (for about a year now) so ... I imagine all the names are googlable, though. I once had a beta tester's version of komodo but I could not make hide nor hair of it, though that was long ago. AS is a pretty responsive group, I gather, from the AS perl lists so that's helpfule Perl Editors Me, I use vim (www.vim.org) both winx and unix. komodo www.activestate.com perl Builder PerlEdit (both pay and 'limited' free version) visiPerl PerlWiz IDE ZooZ.pl - A Perl/Tk GUI builder in pure Perl/Tk. There's a free Open Perl IDE: and 3 someone else (Rich Mellor) has recommended: WinPerl (actually, this looks old/no good) DzSoft's Perl Editor (shareware): OptiPerl SciTE ... freeware and works great! Crimson Editor (FreeWare) on Windows HTML-Kit (see at http://www.chami.com/html-kit/start/ ) It looks like the best of both worlds: handy-handsome and with a large comunity of contributions that build simple but effective scripts. There is also the perl tag and a special HTML::Template one to ease more the use of this great module. To end , I must mention that it has a licenced version with some addings and the most used one: FREE! :-) Pawel "du4mi" suggests: Visual Perl Editor Perl Studio Perl-express Mastak Absolute Perl (rus) Perl Live (rus) Andy?Bach,?Sys.?Mangler Internet:?andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE:?(608)?261-5738??FAX?264-5932 "yeah,?but?does?it?have?a?cute?little?puppy?that?wags?it's?tail and?scampers?around?on?the?screen?" BillG?on?linux -----Forwarded by Andy Bach/WIWB/07/USCOURTS on 11/30/2005 07:57PM ----- To: From: "Kerry Taylor" Sent by: komodo-announce-bounces at listserv.ActiveState.com Date: 11/30/2005 01:47PM Subject: ActiveState Releases First Professional Ruby IDE for Linux and Windows ActiveState Releases First Professional Ruby IDE for Linux and Windows; ActiveState Komodo 3.5 for Perl, Python, PHP, Tcl, and Ruby now available on Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X. Vancouver, BC, - November 30, 2005 - ActiveState, a leading provider of developer tools for dynamic languages, today released Komodo 3.5 for Linux and Windows. Komodo is the first professional integrated development environment (IDE) with full support for the Ruby programming language. ActiveState Komodo 3.5 is an advanced workspace for programming in multiple languages, including Perl, Python, PHP, Tcl, and now Ruby. Komodo 3.5 delivers Ruby features such as Ruby on Rails debugging and multilingual input method editor (IME) support for non-Western languages. ActiveState launched Komodo 3.5, with full Ruby support, for the Mac OS X platform earlier this month. Komodo 3.5 for Solaris will be available in the New Year. New in Komodo 3.5 * Fully integrated Ruby support. Start coding, testing, and debugging with Komodo's newest killer dynamic language. * Ruby on Rails debugging. In an industry first, ActiveState Komodo 3.5 makes it possible to debug Ruby on Rails (RoR) applications in a professional IDE. * Multilingual Input Method Editor (IME) support. Use your standard keyboard to enter complex multibyte characters and symbols, such as French. * Mac OS X support for version 10.4 "Tiger" and 10.3 "Panther". Pricing & Availability Free trials of Komodo 3.5 for Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows are available online. Komodo Professional costs $295, and Komodo Personal is $29.95. Existing Komodo 3.x customers qualify for free Komodo licenses for Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X. Upgrade pricing for prior releases is $99.95 and $19.95, respectively. Komodo is offered at zero cost for classrooms and teachers through the ActiveState Education License Program. Komodo 3.5 is shipping now on Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. About ActiveState ActiveState is the leading provider of tools and services for dynamic languages such as Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, and Tcl. Over two million developers rely on ActiveState's cross-platform professional development tools, high-quality language distributions, and enterprise services. ActiveState Komodo, the professional IDE for dynamic languages, gives developers a powerful workspace for editing, debugging, and testing programs. Komodo supports Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, and Tcl. Media & Analyst Inquiries Kerry Taylor PR Manager ActiveState, a division of Sophos 1.604.484.6837 KerryT at ActiveState.com C 2005 ActiveState, a division of Sophos. All product and company names herein may be trademarks of their respective owners. _______________________________________________ Komodo-announce mailing list Komodo-announce at listserv.ActiveState.com To unsubscribe: http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/mysubs From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 18:29:41 2005 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:29:41 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49d805d70511301829s655f286fyb5001aa637d2bb30@mail.gmail.com> > My entire Perl life (10 years now), I've been using vim for editing my perl programs. > It's fair to say I've written a million lines of perl code in vim. Though I love vim, I > don't want to be missing out on things that could make my life easier. I'm wondering, > what do you use for your Perl IDE? > > I've recently started looking at Komodo, Eclipse, and Xcode. Any thumbs up or down on > those? Any pointers in other directions? When on windows, I use UltraEdit. Decent syntax highlighting, SFTP save-as, etc. I think that it's only $35, so it's not too pricey. From troy at whadda.com Wed Nov 30 18:31:02 2005 From: troy at whadda.com (Troy Denkinger) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:31:02 -0600 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <438E6066.3010305@whadda.com> JT Smith wrote: >I've recently started looking at Komodo, Eclipse, and Xcode. Any thumbs up or down on >those? Any pointers in other directions? > > I recently moved to Eclipse/EPIC and I really am liking it. I think if you use it awhile, you'll like it. The regex plugin is very helpful for debugging pesky regexen. I've not looked at the other IDEs you mention. Regards, Troy From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Nov 30 19:05:08 2005 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: 30 Nov 2005 19:05:08 -0800 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86u0dto6u3.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "JT" == JT Smith writes: JT> My entire Perl life (10 years now), I've been using vim for JT> editing my perl programs. It's fair to say I've written a million JT> lines of perl code in vim. Though I love vim, I don't want to be JT> missing out on things that could make my life easier. I'm JT> wondering, what do you use for your Perl IDE? GNU Emacs. "My editor can *emulate* your editor!" :) -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!