From richard at rushlogistics.com  Fri Jul  1 12:24:30 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Date operator question.
Message-ID: <20050701192431.63664.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Anyone know of a n easy way to get the last day of a
given month?

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From thomasoniii at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 12:38:54 2005
From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:38:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Date operator question.
In-Reply-To: <20050701192431.63664.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050701192431.63664.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7050701123831df4fb3@mail.gmail.com>

sure, use Date::Calc...Days_in_Month($month)

Realistically, though, it's a fairly small set of data points. You
could just keep an array for yourself.

@days_in_month = qw(0 31 28 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 31 30 31);

my $last_day = $days_in_month[$month];

You'd need to handle leapyear yourself, though.

If you actually wanted to know the weekday upon which the last date of
the month fell, then Date::Calc has functions for that, too.

-Jim.....

On 7/1/05, Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com> wrote:
> Anyone know of a n easy way to get the last day of a
> given month?
> 
> A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
>  -Dwight D. Eisenhower.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Fri Jul  1 13:37:57 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:37:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Date operator question.
In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf7050701123831df4fb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050701203758.77016.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> @days_in_month = qw(0 31 28 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 31
> 30 31);

This seems like a good idea.  However, what is the 0
at beginning of the area for?

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From me at heyjay.com  Fri Jul  1 13:51:16 2005
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 15:51:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Date operator question.
In-Reply-To: <20050701203758.77016.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050701203758.77016.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <42C5ACC4.4070904@heyjay.com>

Probably so you can say january is offset 1

my $jan = @days_in_month[1];

Richard Reina wrote:
>>@days_in_month = qw(0 31 28 31 30 31 30 31 31 30 31
>>30 31);
> 
> 
> This seems like a good idea.  However, what is the 0
> at beginning of the area for?
> 
> A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
>  -Dwight D. Eisenhower.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
> 
> 

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Fri Jul  1 13:56:52 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Date operator question.
In-Reply-To: <42C5ACC4.4070904@heyjay.com>
Message-ID: <20050701205653.22962.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks Jay, You are right.  I realized the siliness of
my question when I went to implement the solution.

Richard

--- Jay Strauss <me at heyjay.com> wrote:

> Probably so you can say january is offset 1
> 
> my $jan = @days_in_month[1];
> 
> Richard Reina wrote:
> >>@days_in_month = qw(0 31 28 31 30 31 30 31 31 30
> 31
> >>30 31);
> > 
> > 
> > This seems like a good idea.  However, what is the
> 0
> > at beginning of the area for?
> > 
> > A people that values its privileges above its
> principles soon loses both.
> >  -Dwight D. Eisenhower.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> > 
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 


A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Tue Jul  5 08:41:39 2005
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:41:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fw: DBI v2 - The Plan and How You Can Help
Message-ID: <OFCF0D1D3A.E8C2C7D3-ON86257035.00563038-86257035.0055E3B1@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932

M:  Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the 
automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A:  No it isn't.
----- Forwarded by Andy Bach/WIWB/07/USCOURTS on 07/05/2005 10:37 AM -----

Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce at pobox.com> 
07/01/2005 07:06 PM
Please respond to
dbi-users at perl.org


To
perl6-language at perl.org, dbi-users at perl.org
cc

Subject
DBI v2 - The Plan and How You Can Help






Once upon a time I said:

  
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.dbi.users/msg/caf189d7b404a003?dmode=source&hl=en


and wrote

  http://search.cpan.org/~timb/DBI/Roadmap.pod

which yielded:

  
https://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=Fund+Drive+Details&selfund=102


(A little over $500 of that I effectively put in myself.)

My *sincere* thanks to all those who donated to the fund, especially
individuals. I had hoped for more corporate response with less from
individuals and I'm touched by the personal generosity shown.

I've not drawn any money from it yet and doubt that I will myself.
(I'm considering suggesting that the Perl Foundation make payments
from the fund to people making specific contributions to the DBI.
I'm thinking especially of work on a comprehensive test harness.
But I'll see how the developments below pan out before making
specific arrangements.)


So, that lead to:

  
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.dbi.dev/browse_frm/thread/ef14a9fc0a37441f/fb8fe20a86723da0#fb8fe20a86723da0


Which sums up fairly well where I'm at: DBI v1 will rumble on for Perl 5
and DBI v2 will be implemented for Perl 6.


--- digression ---

At this point I'd like to make a slight digression to highlight the
amazing work going on in the Perl 6 community at the moment.
Especially Autrijus' Pugs project which has brought Perl 6 to life.
Literally. Take a look at:

                 http://pugscode.org/talks/yapc/slide1.html
                 http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal

and especially:

                 http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/24898

Yes, that really is Perl 6 code using the DBI being executed by Pugs.

That's great, and I was truly delighted to see it because it takes the
pressure off the need to get a DBI working for Perl 6 - because it
already is working for Perl 6. At least for Pugs. (The Ponie project
is also likely to provide access to Perl 5 DBI from Perl 6 by enabling
future versions of Perl 5 to run on Parrot.)

--- digression ---


I have recently come to an arrangement that will enable me to put some
worthwhile development time into DBI (still very much part-time, but
enough to give it focus and move forward).

My initial goals are:

 1. to work on a more detailed specification for the DBI v2 API that
    takes advantage of appropriate features of Perl 6.

 2. to work on a more detailed specification for the DBDI API
    
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.perl6.internals/msg/cfcbd9ca7ee6ab4


 3. to work on tools to automate building Parrot NCI interfaces to
    libraries (such as database client libraries, obviously :)


But I'm hoping you'll join in and help out.

I've kept an eye on Perl 6 and Parrot developments but I'm no expert in
either. What I'd like *you* to do is make proposals (ideally fairly
detailed proposals, but vague ideas are okay) for what a Perl 6 DBI API
should look like.

Keep in mind that the role of the DBI is to provide a consistent
interface to databases at a fairly low level. To provide a *foundation*
upon which higher level interfaces (such as Class::DBI, Tangram, Alzabo
etc. in Perl 5) can be built.

So, if you have an interest in the DBI and Perl 6, put your thinking
cap on, kick back and dream a little dream of how the DBI could be.
How to make best use of the new features in Perl 6 to make life easier.

Then jot down the details and email them to me (or to dbi-users at perl.org
if you want to kick them around in public for a while first).

I'm about to fly off for two weeks vacation (in a few hours), blissfully
absent of any hi-tech gear beyond a mobile phone. When I get back I'll
gather up your emails and try to distill them into a coherent whole.

Have fun!

Tim.


From m.krebs at comcast.net  Tue Jul  5 13:42:30 2005
From: m.krebs at comcast.net (m.krebs@comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 20:42:30 +0000
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Monthly Meeting
Message-ID: <070520052042.1654.42CAF0B6000462AA0000067622007507849C0D0A9D05D203@comcast.net>

Hello Everyone,

I have been out of the loop for awhile (last meeting attended in Vernon Hills location), is there a new location for the Monthly meeting?

Thanks

Fred Krebs

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jul  5 13:50:34 2005
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 15:50:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Monthly Meeting
In-Reply-To: <070520052042.1654.42CAF0B6000462AA0000067622007507849C0D0A9D05D203@comcast.net>
References: <070520052042.1654.42CAF0B6000462AA0000067622007507849C0D0A9D05D203@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20050705205034.GB6520@petdance.com>

On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 08:42:30PM +0000, m.krebs at comcast.net (m.krebs at comcast.net) wrote:
> I have been out of the loop for awhile (last meeting attended in Vernon Hills location), is there a new location for the Monthly meeting?

So far as I can tell, our one meeting in Chicago at Performics was our
one meeting in Chicago at Performics.  

So at this point, no, we have no space.

xoxo,
Andy

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jul  5 13:50:34 2005
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 15:50:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Monthly Meeting
In-Reply-To: <070520052042.1654.42CAF0B6000462AA0000067622007507849C0D0A9D05D203@comcast.net>
References: <070520052042.1654.42CAF0B6000462AA0000067622007507849C0D0A9D05D203@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20050705205034.GB6520@petdance.com>

On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 08:42:30PM +0000, m.krebs at comcast.net (m.krebs at comcast.net) wrote:
> I have been out of the loop for awhile (last meeting attended in Vernon Hills location), is there a new location for the Monthly meeting?

So far as I can tell, our one meeting in Chicago at Performics was our
one meeting in Chicago at Performics.  

So at this point, no, we have no space.

xoxo,
Andy

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jul  5 20:54:14 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:54:14 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Config file parsers
In-Reply-To: <42825A2A.2050005@heyjay.com>
References: <428227B1.709@heyjay.com>
	<20050511132023.3239.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <42825A2A.2050005@heyjay.com>
Message-ID: <D509BE7A54D6E0504B70F2F3@[192.168.1.2]>


> Michael Graham wrote:
>>> There are about a 1000 config file parsers on cpan.  Can anyone
>>> recommend one that:
>>>
>>> 1) uses few (or no) prerequisite modules
>>> 2) in heavy use and is maintained.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions on the format I should be heading toward (ini, apache,
>>> xml, yaml...)?

Different approach: use NEXT::init to configure the
thing via modules. Basically the configuraton can
become a layerd hash w/ perly syntax for however
deep you need the nesting to go.


-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jul  5 20:58:25 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:58:25 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] h2xs & subversion equal looong paths
In-Reply-To: <4293DC32.60309@heyjay.com>
References: <4293DC32.60309@heyjay.com>
Message-ID: <9B3BBA504921E5EAB9AFB924@[192.168.1.2]>


> ~/sandbox/Finance-Quote-CBOE/trunk/lib/Finance/Quote
>
> just to edit my file CBOE.pm file (as well as having to add
> ~/sandbox/Finance-Quote-CBOE/trunk/lib to my PERL5LIB for testing)

FindBin::libs w/ a symlink in your ~/sandbox/lib if you
want to avoid PERL5LIB issues.



-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jul  5 21:00:49 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:00:49 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] h2xs & subversion equal looong paths
In-Reply-To: <429473AF.4040205@heyjay.com>
References: <4293DC32.60309@heyjay.com>
	<ed03fc67b17a53d4090fe5dedc1836d1@petdance.com>
	<429473AF.4040205@heyjay.com>
Message-ID: <9C64B681C479C6C13555502B@[192.168.1.2]>


> And still end up with: ~/sand/fqc/trunk/lib, which, granted, is less

    cd ~/sandbox;
    mkdir lib;
    cd lib;
    ln -fs ../fqc/trunc/lib/* .;


#!/opt/bin/perl

use strict;
use FindBin::libs;

# you now have access to anything in ~/sandox/lib from
# anywhere in ~/sandbox.




-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jul  5 21:00:58 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:00:58 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] h2xs & subversion equal looong paths
In-Reply-To: <429473AF.4040205@heyjay.com>
References: <4293DC32.60309@heyjay.com>
	<ed03fc67b17a53d4090fe5dedc1836d1@petdance.com>
	<429473AF.4040205@heyjay.com>
Message-ID: <EEFF52F4BD8221A033EDC70B@[192.168.1.2]>



-- Jay Strauss <me at heyjay.com>

> Andy Lester wrote:
>> First, stop using h2xs and use Module::Starter.
>
> <Non Combative> outside of the fact that you built Module::Starter,
> what's the big difference?
>
>>
>> Second, you can check out your Subversion project into whatever
>> directory you want, so you can, if you want:
>
> Yes
>
>>
>>    svn co file:///svn-repository/Finance-Quote-CBOE fqc
>>
>> and it will check out into directory "fqc".
>
> And still end up with: ~/sand/fqc/trunk/lib, which, granted, is less
> keystrokes but, I'm still a bunch of directories down, but I suppose
> that's probably going to be unavoidable, unless I move trunk up, like I
> mentioned.
>>
>> Finally, there's no rule that says that Finance::Quote::CBOE's pm file
>> has to live in lib/Finance/Quote/CBOE.pm.  You can move it to
>> lib/CBOE.pm and adjust the places that checks for it.  See modules like
>> Test::Memory::Cycle for an example.
>
> I will look at Test::Memory::Cycle
>
> thanks
> Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk



-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jul  5 21:04:00 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:04:00 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Capturing OS command output.
In-Reply-To: <20050620151653.45647.qmail@web306.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050620151653.45647.qmail@web306.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <11A1CB8776B6B9995FBB6FF2@[192.168.1.2]>



-- Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>

>
> Does anyone know how can I get the scalar to give me
> the path of the convert command?
>
> my $convert_path = system("which convert");

    use Fatal qw( open );

    my @result =
    eval
    {
        open my $fh, "$command |";

        <$fh>
    };

    die if $@;


or

    my @result = qx( $command );


>
> just gives me the success or fail results.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
>
> A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
>  -Dwight D. Eisenhower.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk



-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jul  5 21:05:17 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:05:17 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Date operator question.
In-Reply-To: <20050701192431.63664.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050701192431.63664.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EDB8E4999EAA7DDB2175D6FA@[192.168.1.2]>



-- Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>

> Anyone know of a n easy way to get the last day of a
> given month?

First day of the following month - 1.

$next_month = $curr_month % 12 + 1;


-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From brian.d.foy at gmail.com  Mon Jul 11 23:14:45 2005
From: brian.d.foy at gmail.com (brian d foy)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:14:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Edward Tufte in Chicago
Message-ID: <2715accf050711231453bba092@mail.gmail.com>

Edward Tufte is one of the gods of visual and information design, and
he's going to be in Chicago August10-11 (and in Madison on the 8th).

    http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/courses

Although he doesn't talk about computers except to say that monitors
are the worst resolution you can pick. He is, however, all about
presenting information in a way that effectively communicates the
message in the best way possible. That's what computer programs are
all about, too. How strange is that?

I've been to his seminars, and I think Andy has too. If you get the
chance, go. Some of the stuff I learned in his seminar showed up in
patches to GD::Graph. :)

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
http://www.panix.com/~comdog/

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jul 12 07:00:39 2005
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:00:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Edward Tufte in Chicago
In-Reply-To: <2715accf050711231453bba092@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2715accf050711231453bba092@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050712140039.GB7581@petdance.com>

On Tue, Jul 12, 2005 at 01:14:45AM -0500, brian d foy (brian.d.foy at gmail.com) wrote:
> I've been to his seminars, and I think Andy has too. If you get the
> chance, go. Some of the stuff I learned in his seminar showed up in
> patches to GD::Graph. :)

He's great.  Well worth seeing, and for the $320 you get $150 worth of
books in the deal.

xoxo,
Andy

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Tue Jul 12 07:24:44 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:24:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] How reliable is UDP.
Message-ID: <20050712142444.51256.qmail@web312.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Good Morning,

I am in the process of writing a short program in
which a  server sends small amounts of info to local
clients (on a LAN).  I do not need the bi-directional
communication offered by TCP, however, I would like
the communication to be reliable.  I have read that
UDP is unreliable.  Can anyone tell me quantitatively
how unrealiable UDP is?  How many transmission can I
expect to fail 1 out of 100, 1000, etc?

Thank you for your attention,

Richard

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From jt at plainblack.com  Tue Jul 12 07:28:00 2005
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:28:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] How reliable is UDP.
In-Reply-To: <20050712142444.51256.qmail@web312.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050712142444.51256.qmail@web312.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <web-2535828@plainblack.com>

No one can tell you this number because it depends on all sorts of network conditions. 
By definition UDP is not reliable and should only be used for high speed broadcasts such 
as in online gaming.

If you're really sending small amounts of data over a lan, I'd stick with something more 
reliable than UDP.

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:24:44 -0700 (PDT)
  Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com> wrote:
> Good Morning,
> 
> I am in the process of writing a short program in
> which a  server sends small amounts of info to local
> clients (on a LAN).  I do not need the bi-directional
> communication offered by TCP, however, I would like
> the communication to be reliable.  I have read that
> UDP is unreliable.  Can anyone tell me quantitatively
> how unrealiable UDP is?  How many transmission can I
> expect to fail 1 out of 100, 1000, etc?
> 
> Thank you for your attention,
> 
> Richard
> 
> A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
> -Dwight D. Eisenhower.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


JT ~ Plain Black
ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810
fax: 312-264-5382
http://www.plainblack.com

Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave.

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Tue Jul 12 10:38:13 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 12 Jul 2005 10:38:13 -0700
Subject: [Chicago-talk] How reliable is UDP.
In-Reply-To: <20050712142444.51256.qmail@web312.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050712142444.51256.qmail@web312.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86u0izrkl6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com> writes:

Richard> I am in the process of writing a short program in
Richard> which a  server sends small amounts of info to local
Richard> clients (on a LAN).  I do not need the bi-directional
Richard> communication offered by TCP, however, I would like
Richard> the communication to be reliable.

In order to know that the data got there, you need feedback.
That's "bi-directional".

So you've just contradicted yourself.

If you want to know it got there, use TCP.  If it doesn't matter if
every packet gets dropped when the net gets full, use UDP.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From me at heyjay.com  Tue Jul 12 16:22:55 2005
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:22:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] How reliable is UDP.
In-Reply-To: <86u0izrkl6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20050712142444.51256.qmail@web312.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<86u0izrkl6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <42D450CF.4080703@heyjay.com>

He never said he needed to "know" it got there

Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>"Richard" == Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com> writes:
> 
> 
> Richard> I am in the process of writing a short program in
> Richard> which a  server sends small amounts of info to local
> Richard> clients (on a LAN).  I do not need the bi-directional
> Richard> communication offered by TCP, however, I would like
> Richard> the communication to be reliable.
> 
> In order to know that the data got there, you need feedback.
> That's "bi-directional".
> 
> So you've just contradicted yourself.
> 
> If you want to know it got there, use TCP.  If it doesn't matter if
> every packet gets dropped when the net gets full, use UDP.
> 

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Tue Jul 12 16:47:12 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 12 Jul 2005 16:47:12 -0700
Subject: [Chicago-talk] How reliable is UDP.
In-Reply-To: <42D450CF.4080703@heyjay.com>
References: <20050712142444.51256.qmail@web312.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<86u0izrkl6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <42D450CF.4080703@heyjay.com>
Message-ID: <86r7e3oadb.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Jay" == Jay Strauss <me at heyjay.com> writes:

Jay> He never said he needed to "know" it got there

The word "reliable" implies that.

And don't top post.

A. because it's backwards.
Q. Why is top-posting wrong?

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Fri Jul 15 13:36:08 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] TCP server.
Message-ID: <20050715203608.94141.qmail@web311.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am setting up a local TCP server to pass along
caller ID info from a PBX server to local clients on a
LAN and I am somewhat stuck.  I've written a brief
program similar to the one in Perl Cookbook and I got
it working so that it accepts local connections and
successfully sends the client an inniatial welcome
message letting the know they're connected.  However,
I don't know how I can get another script ( the script
that's executed eveytime caller ID inof is available
from incomming calls ) to send info over that that
established connection.  Any ideas on how I can do
this?

Thanks,

Richard

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Fri Jul 15 13:50:36 2005
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:50:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050715203608.94141.qmail@web311.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050715203608.94141.qmail@web311.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050715155036.A28512@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2005 at 01:36:08PM -0700, Richard Reina wrote:
> I don't know how I can get another script ( the script
> that's executed eveytime caller ID inof is available
> from incomming calls ) to send info over that that
> established connection.  Any ideas on how I can do
> this?

You mean like this?

    # ...
    accept( $client, $server_sock );
    open( my $in, "/bin/date |" ) || die $!;
    while( <$in> ) {
      print {$client_sock} $_;
    }

I don't have the Cookbook handy, so you might have to post some of
your code.

-- 
Greg Fast
gdf at speakeasy.net
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/

From jason at multiply.org  Fri Jul 15 17:11:11 2005
From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 19:11:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Local Book Club
Message-ID: <B69B1760-89A4-45B1-8266-B66AA3E8FDF4@multiply.org>

Hello All!

The ChiPy group is starting a book club and all are welcome.

Details here:

http://www.lonelylion.com/pipermail/chipy/2005-July/001476.html

-jason gessner
     jason at multiply.org

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Sat Jul 16 05:57:36 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 05:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050715155036.A28512@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20050716125737.30567.qmail@web308.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> You mean like this?
> 
>     # ...
>     accept( $client, $server_sock );
>     open( my $in, "/bin/date |" ) || die $!;
>     while( <$in> ) {
>       print {$client_sock} $_;
>     }
> 

Greg,

Thank you very much for your response.  Would the
lines of code above be something that that the program
outside the TCP server uses?   

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From comdog at panix.com  Sat Jul 16 15:18:20 2005
From: comdog at panix.com (brian d foy)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:18:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Llama party at my place
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507161814080.22497@panix2.panix.com>


I'm supposed to get a box of Llamas anyday now, so I'm having a book 
release party at my place on Friday, June 22th, atarting around 6ish. Let 
me know if you're coming. :)

I said a lot more in my use.perl posting:

 	http://use.perl.org/~brian_d_foy/journal/25718

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Sat Jul 16 18:33:50 2005
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:33:50 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050716125737.30567.qmail@web308.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050715155036.A28512@speakeasy.net>
	<20050716125737.30567.qmail@web308.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050716203350.A1949@speakeasy.net>

On Sat, Jul 16, 2005 at 05:57:36AM -0700, Richard Reina wrote:
> >     # ...
> >     accept( $client, $server_sock );
> >     open( my $in, "/bin/date |" ) || die $!;
> >     while( <$in> ) {
> >       print {$client_sock} $_;
> >     }
> 
> Thank you very much for your response.  Would the
> lines of code above be something that that the program
> outside the TCP server uses?   

No, that's code for inside the server.  I used the old syscall-style
accept() call, with IO::Socket that'd be
$client_sock=$server_sock->accept()  (I also misspelled $client_sock,
oops...)

In the client, you should be able to just read and write to the
socket, just like in the server.  Something like:

    my $s = IO::Socket::INET->new(
      PeerAddr => "www.google.com:80",
      Proto => "tcp",
    ) || die "Can't connect ($!)";
    
    print {$s} "HEAD / HTTP/1.0\r\n\r\n";
    while (<$s>) {
      print $_;
    }

Is that what you're looking for?

-- 
Greg Fast
gdf at speakeasy.net
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/

From comdog at panix.com  Sat Jul 16 19:16:53 2005
From: comdog at panix.com (brian d foy)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:16:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Parking near my place
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507162213120.20932@panix2.panix.com>


A couple people have asked about parking near my apartment. Street parking 
is really sketchy, but there are a couple of grocery stores within a block 
and they have big parking lots. In the below Google Maps, look at the 
Jewel and Dominics near the top of the list. :)

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=grocery+stores&spn=0.012548,0.023973&near=5301+N+Kenmore+Ave,+Chicago,+IL+60640&num=10&start=0&hl=en

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Mon Jul 18 06:54:48 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050716203350.A1949@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20050718135448.36449.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Greg Fast <gdf at speakeasy.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 16, 2005 at 05:57:36AM -0700, Richard
> Reina wrote:
> > >     # ...
> > >     accept( $client, $server_sock );
> > >     open( my $in, "/bin/date |" ) || die $!;
> > >     while( <$in> ) {
> > >       print {$client_sock} $_;
> > >     }
> > 


Greg, I incorporated the code above into my server
program changing "/bin/date" to
/home/richard/tcp_client and created another two liner
on the server machine:

#!/usr/bin/perl 
# TCP_client
my $ph_no = "3125551212";
print $ph_no . "\n";

Although this is successful in passing $ph_no to the
tcp_client.pl on the client machine, it only does so
when the TCP_sever starts up.  Once the tcp server is
running if I re-run the tcp client on the server
machine nothing is passed.

Thanks, very much for the help thus far.

 



A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Mon Jul 18 13:42:08 2005
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:42:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fw: Renew your The Perl Review subscription
Message-ID: <OF1F111FA8.93B180F9-ON86257042.00720EE0-86257042.007207FE@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Of course, you've all got subs already but if not, its a good deal for 16 
bucks ...

----- Forwarded by Andy Bach/WIWB/07/USCOURTS on 07/18/2005 03:44 PM -----


Hello TPR Subscriber,

We've just finished our first year in print, which means we're also
starting our first round of renewals. Most of you have been with us
since the beginning and made it possible for The Perl Review to get
this far. Your renewal will help us get through the next year.

Just follow this link, or go to the subscription page on our website.

                 https://www.theperlreview.com/cgi-bin/subscribe.cgi

Since we do not store your credit card information, and we don't store
your information on the servers Pair.com provides for us, you get to
fill out your name and address again. This also helps us update our
address database which goes stale faster than you might think. 

Your subscription, including access to the website, is still good until
we send out the next issue in September.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks for supporting The Perl Review,

-- 
brian d foy, Publisher, The Perl Review
http://www.theperlreview.com/



From easyasy2k at gmail.com  Mon Jul 18 20:05:30 2005
From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:05:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Llama party at my place
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507161814080.22497@panix2.panix.com>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507161814080.22497@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2C2E7B79-FF70-4AF7-BB0F-739A4B5F5A8E@gmail.com>

I should be coming. See if I can come down with Andy and Pete.

On Jul 16, 2005, at 5:18 PM, brian d foy wrote:

>
> I'm supposed to get a box of Llamas anyday now, so I'm having a book
> release party at my place on Friday, June 22th, atarting around  
> 6ish. Let
> me know if you're coming. :)
>
> I said a lot more in my use.perl posting:
>
>      http://use.perl.org/~brian_d_foy/journal/25718
>
> -- 
> brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


From richard at rushlogistics.com  Tue Jul 19 07:45:03 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050716203350.A1949@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20050719144504.2053.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I put the code below into a new script called
TCP_send.pl on the server machine and it causes the
console that is running is running the TCP_server.pl
to go berserk -- the console streams continously with
giberish some of which are symbols that I cannot even
type here to show you -- until I do a control-C and
then type "reset" at the console prompt.

Now everytime I run TCP_server.pl and then run
TCP_client.pl on the client machine the console on the
server machine goes (where I running TCP_server.pl)
goes berserk again -- even if I do not run
TCP_send.pl. Can someone please help. 

Thanks,

Richard
>     my $s = IO::Socket::INET->new(
>       PeerAddr => "192.168.0.14:8045",
>       Proto => "tcp",
>     ) || die "Can't connect ($!)";
>     
> 
> 

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Tue Jul 19 08:09:42 2005
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:09:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050719144504.2053.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050716203350.A1949@speakeasy.net>
	<20050719144504.2053.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050719100942.A15151@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 07:45:03AM -0700, Richard Reina wrote:
> I put the code below into a new script called
> TCP_send.pl on the server machine and it causes the
> console that is running is running the TCP_server.pl
> to go berserk -- the console streams continously with

Can you post any of the code for TCP_server.pl?

-- 
Greg Fast
gdf at speakeasy.net
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Tue Jul 19 09:09:11 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050719100942.A15151@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20050719160911.21861.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> Can you post any of the code for TCP_server.pl?

Sorry it took me so long.

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use Socket;
$| = 1;
socket(SERVER, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM,
getprotobyname('tcp'));

my$server_port = 8045;
my$my_addr = sockaddr_in($server_port, INADDR_ANY);
bind(SERVER, $my_addr) or die "Couldn't bind to port
$server_port : $!\n";

# establish a queue for incoming connections
listen(SERVER, SOMAXCONN) or
     die "Couldn't listen on port $server_port :
$!\n";

my $client_address;
   
   my ($ph_no) = @_;

while ($client_address = accept(CLIENT, SERVER)) {

   my ($port, $packed_ip) =
sockaddr_in($client_address);
   print "port: " . $port . "Packed IP: " . $packed_ip
. "\n";
   my $dotted_quad = inet_ntoa($packed_ip);
   print "Dotted Quad: " . $dotted_quad . "\n";

   my $data_to_send = "Welcome to Call Processing";
   my$flags = 0;

   defined (send(CLIENT, $data_to_send, $flags)) or
die "Can't send : $!\n";
   open( my $in, "/home/richard/test_TCP_send |" ) ||
die $!; 
   while( <$in> ) {
     defined (send(CLIENT, $_, $flags)) or die "Can't
send : $!\n";
    }

}

close (SERVER);



ON THE CLIENT MACHINE

#!/usr/bin/perl

use Socket;

socket(TO_SERVER, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM,
getprotobyname('tcp'));
$| = 1;
my $remote_port = 8045;
my $remote_host;  # not worried about it cause we know
the IP
my $intranet_addr = 192.168.0.14;

my $paddr = sockaddr_in($remote_port, $intranet_addr);

connect(TO_SERVER, $paddr) or
   die "Could not connect to $remote_host:$remote_port
: $!\n";
print "CONNECTED TO SERVER\n";
$| = 1;
while(<TO_SERVER>) {

   recv (TO_SERVER, $data_read, 45, 0) or die "Can't
receive : $!\n";
   print $data_read . "\n";

}
close (TO_SERVER)


A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Tue Jul 19 09:37:01 2005
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:37:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050719160911.21861.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050719100942.A15151@speakeasy.net>
	<20050719160911.21861.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050719113701.A15505@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:09:11AM -0700, Richard Reina wrote:
> 
>    my ($port, $packed_ip) =
>    sockaddr_in($client_address);
>    print "port: " . $port . "Packed IP: " . $packed_ip . "\n";

This is my guess for the culprit: the value of $packed_ip is a binary
structure, and isn't suitable for printing (sockaddr_in basically just
returns the C struct).

Also, is there a reason you're using send/recv instead of print/<>?


-- 
Greg Fast
gdf at speakeasy.net
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Tue Jul 19 10:08:41 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050719113701.A15505@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20050719170841.97739.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Greg Fast <gdf at speakeasy.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 09:09:11AM -0700, Richard
> Reina wrote:
> > 
> >    my ($port, $packed_ip) =
> >    sockaddr_in($client_address);
> >    print "port: " . $port . "Packed IP: " .
> $packed_ip . "\n";
> 
> This is my guess for the culprit: the value of
> $packed_ip is a binary
> structure, and isn't suitable for printing
> (sockaddr_in basically just
> returns the C struct).
> 
Any ideas on how can I fix it?

> Also, is there a reason you're using send/recv
> instead of print/<>?
> 
>
Because I have no clue what I'm doing.

Thanks for the help.

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jul 19 10:21:55 2005
From: ehs at pobox.com (Edward Summers)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:21:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050719170841.97739.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050719170841.97739.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68FA1A88-E842-42D4-95B3-3E5D7A5ACB57@pobox.com>

> Any ideas on how can I fix it?

Try printing out the result stored in $dotted_quad on the next line  
instead.

//Ed

is that in the right order?

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Tue Jul 19 11:49:01 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 19 Jul 2005 11:49:01 -0700
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050719170841.97739.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050719170841.97739.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864qaqljhe.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com> writes:

Richard> Because I have no clue what I'm doing.

If you have no clue what you're doing, why are you writing client/server
stuff from scratch?  Why not use HTTP, and use the existing modules?

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Tue Jul 19 13:16:07 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <864qaqljhe.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <20050719201608.62923.qmail@web311.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Randal,

I am very greatful for your very knowledgable input. 
Thank you very much for responding.

> Richard> Because I have no clue what I'm doing.
> 
> If you have no clue what you're doing, why are you
> writing client/server
> stuff from scratch?  

On page 604 of the Perl CookBook it sais:

"or create a socket by hand for better control" 

it did not seem like it was much more trouble -- and
only a few more lines of code --than using than
use IO:Socket, so off I went.

Was this a misguided decision on my part?

Why not use HTTP, and use the
> existing modules?

I'm looking up HTTP in my perl books right now.




A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Jul 19 13:26:23 2005
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:26:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP. TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <864qaqljhe.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20050719170841.97739.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<864qaqljhe.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0507191326735c7808@mail.gmail.com>

> If you have no clue what you're doing, why are you writing client/server
> stuff from scratch? 

Because he loves the thrill of the hack.  Right?  Perl hackers?  I
hope Perl hasn't gotten so respectable that we turn away people doing
it themselves.

My copy of Learning Perl just fell off my shelf and hit me in the head.  Weird.

Chris

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Tue Jul 19 13:29:56 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 19 Jul 2005 13:29:56 -0700
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP. TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0507191326735c7808@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050719170841.97739.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<864qaqljhe.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
	<3096c19d0507191326735c7808@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86pstek08r.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Chris" == Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> writes:

>> If you have no clue what you're doing, why are you writing client/server
>> stuff from scratch? 

Chris> Because he loves the thrill of the hack.

Well, if that's the case, that's fine.  But I bet he's trying to get
something done instead, based on past questions here.  In that case
IO::Socket is almost *always* the wrong place to start.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Tue Jul 19 13:45:20 2005
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:45:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <20050719201608.62923.qmail@web311.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OFB0038B90.67058F99-ON86257043.00716FB4-86257043.0071ADC0@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

There are some pretty cool server modules available (Net::Daemon for one) 
but you might also look at the POE stuff.  Its a bit of an install but it 
allows you to build up a complex server w/o having to muss w/ the back end 
- unless that's what you're trying to learn about.

> "or create a socket by hand for better control" 

also easier to shoot your self in the ... terminal session ;->

a


Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932

M:  Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the 
automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A:  No it isn't.

From shild at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul 19 18:56:47 2005
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:56:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] PLESE HELP.  TCP server.
In-Reply-To: <OFB0038B90.67058F99-ON86257043.00716FB4-86257043.0071ADC0@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
References: <OFB0038B90.67058F99-ON86257043.00716FB4-86257043.0071ADC0@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
Message-ID: <1121824607.667.42.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org>

On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 15:45 -0500, Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote:
> There are some pretty cool server modules available (Net::Daemon for one) 
> but you might also look at the POE stuff.  Its a bit of an install but it 
> allows you to build up a complex server w/o having to muss w/ the back end 
> - unless that's what you're trying to learn about.
> 
> > "or create a socket by hand for better control" 
> 
> also easier to shoot your self in the ... terminal session ;->
> 
> a
> 

  If you want to write them yourself, get a copy of 
  "Network Programming with Perl".  Not only a good resource 
  for code, but also a good tutorial for these kinds of tasks.




> 
> Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
> Internet: andy_bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov 
> VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932
> 
> M:  Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the 
> automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
> (short pause)
> A:  No it isn't.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
-- 
Scott T. Hildreth <shild at sbcglobal.net>

From comdog at panix.com  Fri Jul 22 06:19:08 2005
From: comdog at panix.com (brian d foy)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:19:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Llama shindig tonight!
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507220912580.13682@panix2.panix.com>


Just a reminder: my little shindig is tonight.

 	http://use.perl.org/~brian_d_foy/journal/25718

I have another thought too: If you have a Perl t-shirt, bring it along 
(even if you don't wear it). I just got a mannequin torso so I can take 
nice pics of Perl t-shirts for my virtual Perl museum.

A coupel of people have asked about bringing snacks or whatever. you don't 
need to bring anything, but if you like a particular alcoholic beverage 
you might bring that. Remember that I don't drink, so trusting me to buy 
anything good is quite the gamble.

And, although I'm up at 8 in the morning, that only means I haven't gone 
to sleep yet. I'll watch the Tour de France coverage then hit the sack, so 
I won't be around to answer questions about the party.  Just show up and 
I'm sure things will be fine :)

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>

From warren at warrenandrachel.com  Fri Jul 22 07:42:41 2005
From: warren at warrenandrachel.com (wsmith)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:42:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Llama shindig tonight!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507220912580.13682@panix2.panix.com>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507220912580.13682@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1122043361.31229.2.camel@wsmithbox>

Sorry, I'll have to decline. My wife's in labor! Wish me luck.

-Warren

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 09:19 -0400, brian d foy wrote:
> Just a reminder: my little shindig is tonight.
> 
>  	http://use.perl.org/~brian_d_foy/journal/25718
> 
> I have another thought too: If you have a Perl t-shirt, bring it along 
> (even if you don't wear it). I just got a mannequin torso so I can take 
> nice pics of Perl t-shirts for my virtual Perl museum.
> 
> A coupel of people have asked about bringing snacks or whatever. you don't 
> need to bring anything, but if you like a particular alcoholic beverage 
> you might bring that. Remember that I don't drink, so trusting me to buy 
> anything good is quite the gamble.
> 
> And, although I'm up at 8 in the morning, that only means I haven't gone 
> to sleep yet. I'll watch the Tour de France coverage then hit the sack, so 
> I won't be around to answer questions about the party.  Just show up and 
> I'm sure things will be fine :)
> 


From easyasy2k at gmail.com  Fri Jul 22 15:01:31 2005
From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:01:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Llama party at my place
In-Reply-To: <2C2E7B79-FF70-4AF7-BB0F-739A4B5F5A8E@gmail.com>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507161814080.22497@panix2.panix.com>
	<2C2E7B79-FF70-4AF7-BB0F-739A4B5F5A8E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2df270ef050722150126296ca8@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I won't be coming. My schedule just got messed up.

On 7/18/05, Leland Johnson <easyasy2k at gmail.com> wrote:
> I should be coming. See if I can come down with Andy and Pete.
> 
> On Jul 16, 2005, at 5:18 PM, brian d foy wrote:
> 
> >
> > I'm supposed to get a box of Llamas anyday now, so I'm having a book
> > release party at my place on Friday, June 22th, atarting around
> > 6ish. Let
> > me know if you're coming. :)
> >
> > I said a lot more in my use.perl posting:
> >
> >      http://use.perl.org/~brian_d_foy/journal/25718
> >
> > --
> > brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >
> 
> 


-- 
Leland Johnson
http://protoplasmic.org

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Mon Jul 25 09:48:32 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:48:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] strange sockaddr_in error
Message-ID: <20050725164832.33852.qmail@web307.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Good Morning All,

When I try the following:

use Socket;
socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM,
getprotobyname("udp"))) or die "socket: $!";

my $portno = 5151;
my $packed_ip = inet_aton("192.168.0.2");
my $portaddr = sockaddr_in($portno, $packed_ip);

I get:

Bad arg length for Socket::pack_sockaddr_in, lenght 0,
should be 4 at
/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi/Socket.pm
line 373.

Does anyone know whatI am doing wrong?

Thanks,

Richard

A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Mon Jul 25 11:00:00 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:00:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] NEVERMIND strange sockaddr_in error
In-Reply-To: <20050725164832.33852.qmail@web307.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050725180001.20996.qmail@web303.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Nevermind I figured it out.  Thanks nonetheless.

--- Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com> wrote:

> Good Morning All,
> 
> When I try the following:
> 
> use Socket;
> socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM,
> getprotobyname("udp"))) or die "socket: $!";
> 
> my $portno = 5151;
> my $packed_ip = inet_aton("192.168.0.2");
> my $portaddr = sockaddr_in($portno, $packed_ip);
> 
> I get:
> 
> Bad arg length for Socket::pack_sockaddr_in, lenght
> 0,
> should be 4 at
>
/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi/Socket.pm
> line 373.
> 
> Does anyone know whatI am doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Richard
> 
> A people that values its privileges above its
> principles soon loses both.
>  -Dwight D. Eisenhower.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 


A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From jt at plainblack.com  Tue Jul 26 07:57:57 2005
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:57:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl tests with overhead
Message-ID: <web-2553870@plainblack.com>

I need some advice from the testing gods on this list. I have a massive perl application 
with little or no testing framework, and I want to start adding tests for everything. My 
problem is that every one of the modules requires the session layer that I've created. 
Among other things, the session layer manages the database connection. I can easily 
write tests to verify the session layer, so that's not a problem.

The problem comes in that I don't want each test to have to seperately establish a 
session before running if I can help it. What I'd like to do is create a session and 
then pass each test a reference to the session.

My questions are these:

a) Is this a bad idea? Should I just have each module establish it's own session?

b) What's the best way to do this?

c) What I thought of was making each test a perl module rather than a seperate script, 
then I can easily pass in the session object. However, will that cause problems? My 
thought is that if they're all modules theoretically one module could contaminate the 
results of another module simply because their both being loaded into memory at the same 
time. There wouldn't be any Exporter or anything so I wouldn't have to worry about 
overlapping variables and functions, but I worry none-the-less. Do you think this will 
be a problem?

Any pointers?


JT ~ Plain Black
ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810
fax: 312-264-5382
http://www.plainblack.com

I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam Savage

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Tue Jul 26 09:37:44 2005
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:37:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl tests with overhead
In-Reply-To: <web-2553870@plainblack.com>
References: <web-2553870@plainblack.com>
Message-ID: <20050726113744.A21667@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 09:57:57AM -0500, JT Smith wrote:
> The problem comes in that I don't want each test to have to seperately
> establish a session before running if I can help it. What I'd like to do
> is create a session and then pass each test a reference to the session.

I recently hacked together a solution to a similar testing problem,
using the previously-unknown-to-me Test::Harness::Straps.  This is the
chunk of Harness that runs the test scripts and analyzes/summarizes
the output ("1..251", "ok 1", etc).

I overrode Straps and swapped out the execution of "perl t/$n.t" with
my own test driver.  This allowed me to factor a large chunk of common
code out of a test suite (basically: configure a server, fork a
server, configure a client, run a client, join and cleanup).

The relevant bits:

  package MyStraps;
  use base 'Test::Harness::Straps';

  sub analyze_file {
    my $self = shift;
    my $case_file = shift;
  
    # run "<driver> <case_file>"
    my $cmd = $self->_command_line( $self->driver_cmd ) . " $case_file";
    open( my $fh, "$cmd |" ) || die $!;
    return $self->analyze_fh( $case_file, $fh );
  }

and:

  use Test::Harness;
  $Test::Harness::Strap = MyStraps->new();
  runtests( @cases ); # t/1.t, t/2.t, ...

So this lets you do arbitrary work for each test case.  In your
example, you could easily replace the exec of the test command ("perl
t/1.t") with a in-process execution that provides a shared session
(Straps has an analyze() method that takes plain text input), or you
could write a driver script that loads and stores the session before
providing it to an exec'd script (to avoid local pollution).

Normally when you do a "make test", it basically runs runtests().  I
haven't bothered to hack up Makefile.PL to make it use my straps
(because this is an integration test suite that requires external
setup), but it should be possible.


-- 
Greg Fast
gdf at speakeasy.net
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/

From jt at plainblack.com  Tue Jul 26 18:30:40 2005
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:30:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl tests with overhead
In-Reply-To: <20050726113744.A21667@speakeasy.net>
References: <web-2553870@plainblack.com> <20050726113744.A21667@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <web-2554347@plainblack.com>

Thanks, I'll give this a try.

Anybody else got any tips before I get too far?



On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:37:44 -0500
  Greg Fast <gdf at speakeasy.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2005 at 09:57:57AM -0500, JT Smith wrote:
>> The problem comes in that I don't want each test to have to seperately
>> establish a session before running if I can help it. What I'd like to do
>> is create a session and then pass each test a reference to the session.
> 
> I recently hacked together a solution to a similar testing problem,
> using the previously-unknown-to-me Test::Harness::Straps.  This is the
> chunk of Harness that runs the test scripts and analyzes/summarizes
> the output ("1..251", "ok 1", etc).
> 
> I overrode Straps and swapped out the execution of "perl t/$n.t" with
> my own test driver.  This allowed me to factor a large chunk of common
> code out of a test suite (basically: configure a server, fork a
> server, configure a client, run a client, join and cleanup).
> 
> The relevant bits:
> 
>  package MyStraps;
>  use base 'Test::Harness::Straps';
> 
>  sub analyze_file {
>    my $self = shift;
>    my $case_file = shift;
>  
>    # run "<driver> <case_file>"
>    my $cmd = $self->_command_line( $self->driver_cmd ) . " $case_file";
>    open( my $fh, "$cmd |" ) || die $!;
>    return $self->analyze_fh( $case_file, $fh );
>  }
> 
> and:
> 
>  use Test::Harness;
>  $Test::Harness::Strap = MyStraps->new();
>  runtests( @cases ); # t/1.t, t/2.t, ...
> 
> So this lets you do arbitrary work for each test case.  In your
> example, you could easily replace the exec of the test command ("perl
> t/1.t") with a in-process execution that provides a shared session
> (Straps has an analyze() method that takes plain text input), or you
> could write a driver script that loads and stores the session before
> providing it to an exec'd script (to avoid local pollution).
> 
> Normally when you do a "make test", it basically runs runtests().  I
> haven't bothered to hack up Makefile.PL to make it use my straps
> (because this is an integration test suite that requires external
> setup), but it should be possible.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Greg Fast
> gdf at speakeasy.net
> http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


JT ~ Plain Black
ph: 703-286-2525 ext. 810
fax: 312-264-5382
http://www.plainblack.com

I reject your reality, and substitute my own. ~ Adam Savage

From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jul 26 20:09:05 2005
From: ehs at pobox.com (Edward Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:09:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl tests with overhead
In-Reply-To: <web-2554347@plainblack.com>
References: <web-2553870@plainblack.com> <20050726113744.A21667@speakeasy.net>
	<web-2554347@plainblack.com>
Message-ID: <D289EA2A-0909-427B-98B3-6E820665EE34@pobox.com>

> Anybody else got any tips before I get too far?

One thing I really like about xUnit [1] style tests is the ability to  
define a setUp() method that creates an environment for each test to  
take place in. In addition your test classes can use inheritance:  so  
you could define a top level SessionTest for your other test classes  
to inherit from. It's unfortunate that Test::Unit appears to have a  
bad rating on CPAN due to installation problems.

Thanks to brian's blog I read an interview w/ Ian Longworth [1] who  
wrote a new book "Perl Testing a Developer's Notebook". Perhaps there  
are some hints in there about doing this sort of thing? He mentions a  
new module called Test::Base which provides a new testing idiom that  
might be worth taking a look at.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unit_testing_frameworks
[1] http://www.theperlreview.com/Interviews/ian-ptdn-20050712.html

//Ed

From mongers at bsod.net  Wed Jul 27 06:35:51 2005
From: mongers at bsod.net (Pete Krawczyk)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:35:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl tests with overhead
In-Reply-To: <D289EA2A-0909-427B-98B3-6E820665EE34@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0507270831230.14047-100000@equerry.bsod.net>

Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] perl tests with overhead
From: Edward Summers <ehs at pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:09:05 -0500

}new module called Test::Base which provides a new testing idiom that  
}might be worth taking a look at.

Test::Base is ingy's new data-driven testing framework.  He talked about 
it at YAPC.

Slides: http://yapc.kwiki.org/data-driven-testing/slide1.html

You need to press "n' on your keyboard to get to the next slide.

The color coding goes something like this:
  red: things going away in the next slide
  green: things that have changed from the last slide
  purple: things that are new

-Pete K
-- 
Pete Krawczyk
  mongers at bsod dot net


From comdog at panix.com  Wed Jul 27 07:49:48 2005
From: comdog at panix.com (brian d foy)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:49:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago area Perl events on del.icio.us
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507271046250.22341@panix2.panix.com>


I was chatting with Ed Summers this morning and he was talking about using 
Del.icio.us to track local computer events. If you know of something, add 
it to your bookmarks and tag it with "chicomp". Anyone can then see al the 
events with

 	http://del.icio.us/tag/chicomp

or get an RSS feed with

 	http://del.icio.us/rss/tag/chicomp

That's cool. :)

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>

From jason at multiply.org  Wed Jul 27 10:21:20 2005
From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:21:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago area Perl events on del.icio.us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507271046250.22341@panix2.panix.com>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0507271046250.22341@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <27FF9910-6AC0-4574-8E5B-D736CAE85878@multiply.org>

ed and i also set up an upcoming.org tag for this stuff as well.

http://upcoming.org/tag/chicomp

upcoming.org is like what meetup.com was, but free and pretty.

-jason gessner
      jason at multiply.org


On Jul 27, 2005, at 9:49 AM, brian d foy wrote:

>
> I was chatting with Ed Summers this morning and he was talking  
> about using
> Del.icio.us to track local computer events. If you know of  
> something, add
> it to your bookmarks and tag it with "chicomp". Anyone can then see  
> al the
> events with
>
>      http://del.icio.us/tag/chicomp
>
> or get an RSS feed with
>
>      http://del.icio.us/rss/tag/chicomp
>
> That's cool. :)
>
> -- 
> brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 07:24:18 2005
From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:24:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Internet Provider
Message-ID: <49d805d70507280724e69a00d@mail.gmail.com>

Do any of you have recommendations for an Internet provider for the
area?  I picked up a flier in my building for American Wireless
Broadband (http://www.awb.us), but have concerns about having multiple
PCs connected.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Josh

From brian.d.foy at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 08:17:59 2005
From: brian.d.foy at gmail.com (brian d foy)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:17:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Internet Provider
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70507280724e69a00d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49d805d70507280724e69a00d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2715accf0507280817391eefbe@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/28/05, Joshua McAdams <joshua.mcadams at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do any of you have recommendations for an Internet provider for the
> area?  I picked up a flier in my building for American Wireless
> Broadband (http://www.awb.us), but have concerns about having multiple
> PCs connected.  Any suggestions?

I've been as happy as you can be (which isn't really much) with
Comcast (or AT&T Broadband or whatever they call themselves today).

I wish only pain and suffering for RCN, however. I would delight in
their misery, although the most I can do is not give them money and
tell other people not to either.

-- 
brian d foy <brian.d.foy at gmail.com>
http://www.panix.com/~comdog/

From shild at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jul 28 16:15:30 2005
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:15:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Internet Provider
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70507280724e69a00d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49d805d70507280724e69a00d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1122592530.614.25.camel@fbsd1.dyndns.org>

I have been very pleased with SBC.  Great service, at least
for me.  Plus the more services you order from them, phone, 
dish ...etc) you get monthly discounts on bill.

Check out http://www.dslreports.com , look for reviews in 
your zip code.


On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 09:24 -0500, Joshua McAdams wrote:
> Do any of you have recommendations for an Internet provider for the
> area?  I picked up a flier in my building for American Wireless
> Broadband (http://www.awb.us), but have concerns about having multiple
> PCs connected.  Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
-- 
Scott T. Hildreth <shild at sbcglobal.net>

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Fri Jul 29 11:08:11 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
Message-ID: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
text file.  I was thinking it should be something
like:

upen(FILE, "text.txt");
# delete the 1st (top) line

close(FILE);


but I've obviously come up short.



A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From jason at multiply.org  Fri Jul 29 11:10:00 2005
From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:10:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] possible freelance job....
Message-ID: <20050729131000.hjaco6zuphk4gss0@manage.multiply.org>

Hi all.

I received this email from a friend of mine at a san francisco based company:

===============================================
My company has a need for a web-based tool, probably written in PHP or something
similar
(inexpensive, *nix friendly, fast to code in) that looks at a DTD, adds in some
default/typical values, lays out the options on a web form for the user to pick
& choose
from, and generates an XML file based on the options that is compliant with the
DTD.

Do you know if such a tool already exists? Would either of you be interested in
helping
implement such a tool for us?
================================================

does anyone know of anything like this or would anyone be willing to build
something?

Thanks!

-jason gessner
    jason at multiply.org

From mongers at bsod.net  Fri Jul 29 11:23:19 2005
From: mongers at bsod.net (Pete Krawczyk)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:23:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0507291317310.14047-100000@equerry.bsod.net>

Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
From: Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:08:11 -0700 (PDT)

}Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
}text file.  I was thinking it should be something
}like:

I personally would use:
  # perl -ni.bak -e'print if ++$a > 1;' filename.txt
which will create a filename.bak with the original file, and a 
filename.txt with the first line missing.  (You can shorten to 
"-ni -e" if you don't need a backup.)

-Pete K
-- 
Pete Krawczyk
  mongers at bsod dot net


From thomasoniii at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 11:32:42 2005
From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:32:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0507291317310.14047-100000@equerry.bsod.net>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0507291317310.14047-100000@equerry.bsod.net>
Message-ID: <5cfdfaf705072911326b69f18a@mail.gmail.com>

Surely we can't let such an obvious challenge go answered by only one
response! We Perl guys just love to come up with excessive excessively
short ways to do things.

perl -ni -e 'print unless 1..1' file.txt

God, I'm so turned on right now.

-Jim......

On 7/29/05, Pete Krawczyk <mongers at bsod.net> wrote:
> Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
> From: Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> }Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
> }text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> }like:
> 
> I personally would use:
>   # perl -ni.bak -e'print if ++$a > 1;' filename.txt
> which will create a filename.bak with the original file, and a
> filename.txt with the first line missing.  (You can shorten to
> "-ni -e" if you don't need a backup.)
> 
> -Pete K
> --
> Pete Krawczyk
>   mongers at bsod dot net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From wiggins at danconia.org  Fri Jul 29 11:45:37 2005
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:45:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf705072911326b69f18a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0507291317310.14047-100000@equerry.bsod.net>
	<5cfdfaf705072911326b69f18a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42EA7951.7060609@danconia.org>

Jim Thomason wrote:
> Surely we can't let such an obvious challenge go answered by only one
> response! We Perl guys just love to come up with excessive excessively
> short ways to do things.
> 
> 

perl -ni -e 'print unless 1..1' file.txt
perl -ni -e 'print if $.>1' file.txt

A couple characters....

http://danconia.org

> 
> God, I'm so turned on right now.
> 
> -Jim......
> 
> On 7/29/05, Pete Krawczyk <mongers at bsod.net> wrote:
> 
>>Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
>>From: Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>
>>Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>}Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
>>}text file.  I was thinking it should be something
>>}like:
>>
>>I personally would use:
>>  # perl -ni.bak -e'print if ++$a > 1;' filename.txt
>>which will create a filename.bak with the original file, and a
>>filename.txt with the first line missing.  (You can shorten to
>>"-ni -e" if you don't need a backup.)
>>
>>-Pete K

From andy at petdance.com  Fri Jul 29 11:54:32 2005
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:54:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:08:11AM -0700, Richard Reina (richard at rushlogistics.com) wrote:
> Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
> text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> like:

Read the FAQ.  It's in there.

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From warren at warrenandrachel.com  Fri Jul 29 12:18:12 2005
From: warren at warrenandrachel.com (wsmith)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:18:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>

cat file | tail -n +2 

On Fri, 2005-07-29 at 13:54 -0500, Andy Lester wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:08:11AM -0700, Richard Reina (richard at rushlogistics.com) wrote:
> > Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
> > text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> > like:
> 
> Read the FAQ.  It's in there.
> 


From wiggins at danconia.org  Fri Jul 29 12:28:23 2005
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:28:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
Message-ID: <42EA8357.1040609@danconia.org>

UUOC alert:  tail -n +2 file.txt > out.txt

http://danconia.org

wsmith wrote:
> cat file | tail -n +2 
> 
> On Fri, 2005-07-29 at 13:54 -0500, Andy Lester wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:08:11AM -0700, Richard Reina (richard at rushlogistics.com) wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
>>>text file.  I was thinking it should be something
>>>like:
>>
>>Read the FAQ.  It's in there.
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
> 

From andy at petdance.com  Fri Jul 29 12:32:41 2005
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
Message-ID: <20050729193241.GB15014@petdance.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 02:18:12PM -0500, wsmith (warren at warrenandrachel.com) wrote:
> cat file | tail -n +2 

cat is unnecessary.

tail -n +2 file

-- 
Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From richard at rushlogistics.com  Fri Jul 29 13:48:19 2005
From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <20050729204819.35478.qmail@web302.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thank you for all the great responses.  Hope everyone
has a great weekend.

--- Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:08:11AM -0700, Richard
> Reina (richard at rushlogistics.com) wrote:
> > Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in
> a
> > text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> > like:
> 
> Read the FAQ.  It's in there.
> 
> -- 
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com
> => AIM:petdance
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 


A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
 -Dwight D. Eisenhower.

From jjstrauss at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 14:24:14 2005
From: jjstrauss at gmail.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:24:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <42EA8357.1040609@danconia.org>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox> <42EA8357.1040609@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>

I had to look up UUOC (Useless Use of cat).  Its funny there is an  an
acronym for it.

Also, I think it was on this list, someone mentioned a term, I can't
remember what it is, and I can't come up the the right incantation for
google.  The term is invoked when someone mentions nazism.  And it
basically means that the thread is dead and the poster who mentioned
nazism loses the argument automatically.  Does anyone know the term?

Jay

On 7/29/05, Wiggins d'Anconia <wiggins at danconia.org> wrote:
> UUOC alert:  tail -n +2 file.txt > out.txt
> 
> http://danconia.org
> 
> wsmith wrote:
> > cat file | tail -n +2
> >
> > On Fri, 2005-07-29 at 13:54 -0500, Andy Lester wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 11:08:11AM -0700, Richard Reina (richard at rushlogistics.com) wrote:
> >>
> >>>Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
> >>>text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> >>>like:
> >>
> >>Read the FAQ.  It's in there.
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk at pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Fri Jul 29 14:43:29 2005
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:43:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
	<42EA8357.1040609@danconia.org>
	<aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050729164329.A14351@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 04:24:14PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote:
> Also, I think it was on this list, someone mentioned a term, I can't
> remember what it is, and I can't come up the the right incantation for
> google.  The term is invoked when someone mentions nazism.  And it
> basically means that the thread is dead and the poster who mentioned
> nazism loses the argument automatically.  Does anyone know the term?

Godwin's Law:
 http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

-- 
Greg Fast
gdf at speakeasy.net
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/

From jkeen at verizon.net  Fri Jul 29 19:41:17 2005
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James Keenan)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:41:17 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b56860ff445e00cfccab653825cfe1e2@verizon.net>


On Jul 29, 2005, at 2:08 PM, Richard Reina wrote:

>
>
> Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
> text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> like:
>
> upen(FILE, "text.txt");
> # delete the 1st (top) line
>
> close(FILE);
>
>
> but I've obviously come up short.
>

Given the simplicity of the problem you pose, what follows is NOT the 
best way to solve the problem.  But it is a useful way to approach many 
problems of this sort:

perldoc Tie::File

(or:  http://search.cpan.org/dist/Tie-File/)

jimk


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jul 29 23:09:58 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 02:09:58 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Internet Provider
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70507280724e69a00d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49d805d70507280724e69a00d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1A53DAA7AC9E743509ED0012@[192.168.1.2]>



-- Joshua McAdams <joshua.mcadams at gmail.com>

> Do any of you have recommendations for an Internet provider for the
> area?  I picked up a flier in my building for American Wireless
> Broadband (http://www.awb.us), but have concerns about having multiple
> PCs connected.  Any suggestions?

If you have servers and want guaranteed bandwidth,
dns secondary, email MX backup check out ISPFH
(http://www.ispfh.org/). It's a non-profit "citizens
utility" cooperative: less likely to screw the
customers than most.


-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jul 29 23:10:40 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 02:10:40 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E8EE01C420E09E829AE6D751@[192.168.1.2]>



-- Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>

>
>
> Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
> text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> like:
>
> upen(FILE, "text.txt");
># delete the 1st (top) line
>
> close(FILE);
>
>
> but I've obviously come up short.
>
>
>
> A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
>  -Dwight D. Eisenhower.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk



-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jul 29 23:11:35 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 02:11:35 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
Message-ID: <58017447C63AEA74A4BE2D3A@A329CA9CF730586E6F5001CC>



-- Richard Reina <richard at rushlogistics.com>

>
>
> Anyone know the easiest way remove the 1st line in a
> text file.  I was thinking it should be something
> like:
>
> upen(FILE, "text.txt");
># delete the 1st (top) line
>
> close(FILE);
>
>
> but I've obviously come up short.

perl -i~ -n -e 'print if $. > 1' /path/to/file;


-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508



From jjstrauss at gmail.com  Sat Jul 30 07:23:07 2005
From: jjstrauss at gmail.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:23:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <20050729164329.A14351@speakeasy.net>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox> <42EA8357.1040609@danconia.org>
	<aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050729164329.A14351@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <aabc51b605073007233cb3c2c1@mail.gmail.com>

Right.  Jim replied offlist and gave me the answer too

Jay

On 7/29/05, Greg Fast <gdf at speakeasy.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 04:24:14PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote:
> > Also, I think it was on this list, someone mentioned a term, I can't
> > remember what it is, and I can't come up the the right incantation for
> > google.  The term is invoked when someone mentions nazism.  And it
> > basically means that the thread is dead and the poster who mentioned
> > nazism loses the argument automatically.  Does anyone know the term?
> 
> Godwin's Law:
>  http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
> 
> --
> Greg Fast
> gdf at speakeasy.net
> http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jul 30 11:02:46 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:02:46 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
Message-ID: <FEEBCFD55C970C175A462165@[192.168.1.2]>



-- wsmith <warren at warrenandrachel.com>

> cat file | tail -n +2

why the cat?

    tail -n +2 file;



-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jul 30 11:04:00 2005
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:04:00 -0400
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox>
	<42EA8357.1040609@danconia.org>
	<aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6020722FFE10FE10E8E8454A@[192.168.1.2]>



-- Jay Strauss <jjstrauss at gmail.com>

> I had to look up UUOC (Useless Use of cat).  Its funny there is an  an
> acronym for it.

Randal Schwartz invented the term after seeing
too much feline abuse to stand it any longer.


-- 
Steven Lembark                                       85-09 90th Street
Workhorse Computing                                Woodhaven, NY 11421
lembark at wrkhors.com                                     1 888 359 3508

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sat Jul 30 11:11:14 2005
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: 30 Jul 2005 11:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Chicago-talk] delete the first line in a text file.
In-Reply-To: <aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050729180811.55798.qmail@web304.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20050729185432.GA15014@petdance.com>
	<1122664692.14217.0.camel@wsmithbox> <42EA8357.1040609@danconia.org>
	<aabc51b6050729142444ce3c0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <863bpw88ql.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Jay" == Jay Strauss <jjstrauss at gmail.com> writes:

Jay> Also, I think it was on this list, someone mentioned a term, I can't
Jay> remember what it is, and I can't come up the the right incantation for
Jay> google.  The term is invoked when someone mentions nazism.  And it
Jay> basically means that the thread is dead and the poster who mentioned
Jay> nazism loses the argument automatically.  Does anyone know the term?

Wikipedia sees all, knows all, for some meanings of "all":

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law>

And there's even a reference to UUOC:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_%28Unix%29>

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!