From me at heyjay.com Fri Oct 1 02:12:38 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Fri Oct 1 02:06:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize Message-ID: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> Andy (et al), Can I download a file via WWW::Mechanize? Specifically I'm trying to get quotes from the CBOE site. They now offer a comma separated file, available for download. http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteTable.aspx I can't see how to do it from the docs Thanks Jay From me at heyjay.com Fri Oct 1 20:31:21 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Fri Oct 1 20:25:09 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> Jay Strauss wrote: > Andy (et al), > > Can I download a file via WWW::Mechanize? Specifically I'm trying to > get quotes from the CBOE site. They now offer a comma separated file, > available for download. > > http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteTable.aspx > > I can't see how to do it from the docs > > Thanks > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > Helloooooooo, anyone out there? Jay From andy at petdance.com Fri Oct 1 20:32:03 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri Oct 1 20:32:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> Message-ID: >> Can I download a file via WWW::Mechanize? Specifically I'm trying to >> get quotes from the CBOE site. They now offer a comma separated >> file, available for download. >> > Helloooooooo, anyone out there? I figure if I wait long enough, you'll read the docs. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From me at heyjay.com Fri Oct 1 23:58:07 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Fri Oct 1 23:51:56 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> Andy Lester wrote: >>> Can I download a file via WWW::Mechanize? Specifically I'm trying >>> to get quotes from the CBOE site. They now offer a comma separated >>> file, available for download. >>> >> Helloooooooo, anyone out there? > > > I figure if I wait long enough, you'll read the docs. > > xoa > Andy, I just don't see how to do it in my instance, I can't use $mech->get because its not a uri, its a form I need to fill out, then push the download button, after which I download a form. I've been messing with the below to no avail #!/usr/bin/perl use WWW::Mechanize; my $url = "http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteTableDownload.aspx"; my $mech = WWW::Mechanize->new(); $mech->get( $url ); my $res = $mech->submit_form( form_number => 1, fields => {ticker => 'QQQ'}, ); print $mech->content; From me at heyjay.com Sat Oct 2 00:02:02 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Fri Oct 1 23:55:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> > I just don't see how to do it in my instance, I can't use $mech->get > because its not a uri, its a form I need to fill out, then push the > download button, after which I download a form. > Opps, thats: "push the download button, after which I download a file" From easyasy2k at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 00:06:40 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Sat Oct 2 00:06:43 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> perldoc WWW::Mechanize | grep -A 10 -B 10 "file" I can't seem to get `grep -C 10 "tofind" to work in osx. Any sugguestions? On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 00:02:02 -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > > > I just don't see how to do it in my instance, I can't use $mech->get > > because its not a uri, its a form I need to fill out, then push the > > download button, after which I download a form. > > > Opps, thats: > > "push the download button, after which I download a file" > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From me at heyjay.com Sat Oct 2 08:17:17 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sat Oct 2 08:11:09 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> Leland Johnson wrote: >perldoc WWW::Mechanize | grep -A 10 -B 10 "file" > >I can't seem to get `grep -C 10 "tofind" to work in osx. Any sugguestions? > > >On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 00:02:02 -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > > >>>I just don't see how to do it in my instance, I can't use $mech->get >>>because its not a uri, its a form I need to fill out, then push the >>>download button, after which I download a form. >>> >>> >>> Leland, thanks for the response. But, for me it's not a question of not reading the docs (as Andy assumes). From the docs I don't see how to do what I want. The docs lead me to believe: $mech->get( $url, ":content_file"=>$tempfile ); Requires a URL to follow. In my case I don't have that. I have a form that needs filling and a submit button. Thanks Jay From me at heyjay.com Sat Oct 2 08:23:29 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sat Oct 2 08:17:18 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <415EABD1.4010702@heyjay.com> Jay Strauss wrote: > Leland Johnson wrote: > >> perldoc WWW::Mechanize | grep -A 10 -B 10 "file" >> >> I can't seem to get `grep -C 10 "tofind" to work in osx. Any >> sugguestions? >> >> On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 00:02:02 -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: >> >> >>>> I just don't see how to do it in my instance, I can't use $mech->get >>>> because its not a uri, its a form I need to fill out, then push the >>>> download button, after which I download a form. >>>> >>>> >>> > Leland, thanks for the response. But, for me it's not a question of > not reading the docs (as Andy assumes). From the docs I don't see how > to do what I want. > The docs lead me to believe: > > $mech->get( $url, ":content_file"=>$tempfile ); > > Requires a URL to follow. In my case I don't have that. I have a > form that needs filling and a submit button. > > Thanks > Jay > PS I've already tried: #!/usr/bin/perl use WWW::Mechanize; my $url = "http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteTableDownload.aspx"; my $mech = WWW::Mechanize->new(); $mech->get( $url ); $mech->form(1); $mech->field('ticker','QQQ'); $mech->get( $url, ":content_file"=>'dummy'); __END__ From andy at petdance.com Sat Oct 2 09:24:19 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat Oct 2 09:24:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> Message-ID: > Leland, thanks for the response. But, for me it's not a question of > not reading the docs (as Andy assumes). From the docs I don't see how > to do what I want. > The docs lead me to believe: > There are two examples, one in the Cookbook, one in the Examples. PLUS, it's a subclass of LWP::UserAgent, so anything that can do, you can do with Mech. -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From me at heyjay.com Sat Oct 2 10:10:44 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sat Oct 2 10:04:34 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <415EC4F4.1020102@heyjay.com> Andy Lester wrote: >> Leland, thanks for the response. But, for me it's not a question of >> not reading the docs (as Andy assumes). From the docs I don't see >> how to do what I want. >> The docs lead me to believe: >> > > There are two examples, one in the Cookbook, one in the Examples. > PLUS, it's a subclass of LWP::UserAgent, so anything that can do, you > can do with Mech. > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > Andy, I know your trying to help. But all the examples, the cookbook, the docs talk about having a url to get. I'm not doing a "get", I'm doing a "post". I can't supply |:content_file option.| Jay From andy at petdance.com Sat Oct 2 11:25:43 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat Oct 2 11:25:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: <415EC4F4.1020102@heyjay.com> References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> <415EC4F4.1020102@heyjay.com> Message-ID: > > I know your trying to help. But all the examples, the cookbook, the > docs talk about having a url to get. I'm not doing a "get", I'm doing > a "post". I can't supply |:content_file option.| And once you post, and it sends you a file back, it's in your $agent->content. Write that out to a file. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From me at heyjay.com Sat Oct 2 12:16:23 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sat Oct 2 12:10:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize In-Reply-To: References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> <415EC4F4.1020102@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <415EE267.80202@heyjay.com> Andy Lester wrote: >> >> I know your trying to help. But all the examples, the cookbook, the >> docs talk about having a url to get. I'm not doing a "get", I'm >> doing a "post". I can't supply |:content_file option.| > > > And once you post, and it sends you a file back, it's in your > $agent->content. Write that out to a file. > > xoa > Isn't that what I'm doing with my original posting of my code?? #!/usr/bin/perl use WWW::Mechanize; my $url = "http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteTableDownload.aspx"; my $mech = WWW::Mechanize->new(); $mech->get( $url ); my $res = $mech->submit_form( form_number => 1, fields => {ticker => 'QQQ'}, ); print $mech->content; From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 11:25:43 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon Oct 4 11:25:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? Message-ID: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> I ran across a few Perl jobs on craigslist. After contacting one of the recruiters, she asked me to grade myself, as in, am I a B+ Perl developer? Any thoughts on a rule of thumb way to classify a developer? Something along the lines of: An A+ developer can do x y z from memory, and has probably contributed to CPAN... would be helpful. Or maybe just a paragraph about, "so, you want to be a full time Perl developer, here's the basic skill set..." Thanks, Chris From jt at plainblack.com Mon Oct 4 11:52:22 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Oct 4 11:47:15 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A+ = Larry Wall A = Damian Conway B+ = Andy Lester C+/B- = JT Smith To be in the A range, you'd have to be a Larry Wall, Randal Schwartz, Damian Conway type person I would think. Not that you have to be them, just that you have to know the inner workings of Perl, and all of the coolio tricks they do. If you know mod_perl, Perl core, Test::More, and a good working knowledge of CPAN, then you're probably in the B range. Anything else and your a lesser grade. That's my 2 cents. On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:25:43 -0500 Chris McAvoy wrote: >I ran across a few Perl jobs on craigslist. After contacting one of >the recruiters, she asked me to grade myself, as in, am I a B+ Perl >developer? > >Any thoughts on a rule of thumb way to classify a developer? > >Something along the lines of: > >An A+ developer can do x y z from memory, and has probably contributed >to CPAN... > >would be helpful. Or maybe just a paragraph about, "so, you want to >be a full time Perl developer, here's the basic skill set..." > >Thanks, >Chris >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From thomasoniii at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 11:58:46 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Oct 4 11:58:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7041004095816f02ff8@mail.gmail.com> That sells yourself short. Standard grade range is A is top 10%, B is top 20%, C is top 30%, etc. If you say you're a B, then that tells the interviewer if they interview 100 people, they're likely to find one person better than you. Restricting A level people down to only the gurus is silly and would probably not be what an interviewer would do. If you want to hedge your bets, then the best thing would probably be to rattle off the things that you know, and then come up with a grade. "Well, I contributed Foo::Bar to CPAN, I've deployed 17 sites in mod_perl, I've optimized lots of code for big performance gains, I once touched Larry Wall's moustache, and I can walk on water while playing the ukelele. I'd say I'm a solid B+." Personally, when I was interviewing people, I'd only ask questions like that to get a jumping off point for where I should start grilling them when I did the tech eval. Having someone say, "I'm an A!" is kinda useless, they need to prove it. So have the goods to back up your claim, but don't sell yourself short. -Jim..... On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:52:22 -0500, JT Smith wrote: > A+ = Larry Wall > A = Damian Conway > B+ = Andy Lester > C+/B- = JT Smith > > To be in the A range, you'd have to be a Larry Wall, Randal Schwartz, Damian Conway type > person I would think. Not that you have to be them, just that you have to know the inner > workings of Perl, and all of the coolio tricks they do. > > If you know mod_perl, Perl core, Test::More, and a good working knowledge of CPAN, then > you're probably in the B range. > > Anything else and your a lesser grade. > > That's my 2 cents. > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:25:43 -0500 > > > Chris McAvoy wrote: > >I ran across a few Perl jobs on craigslist. After contacting one of > >the recruiters, she asked me to grade myself, as in, am I a B+ Perl > >developer? > > > >Any thoughts on a rule of thumb way to classify a developer? > > > >Something along the lines of: > > > >An A+ developer can do x y z from memory, and has probably contributed > >to CPAN... > > > >would be helpful. Or maybe just a paragraph about, "so, you want to > >be a full time Perl developer, here's the basic skill set..." > > > >Thanks, > >Chris > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > JT ~ Plain Black > > Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From onefix at waste.org Mon Oct 4 12:07:51 2004 From: onefix at waste.org (ogden nefix) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:07:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41618367.1040007@waste.org> An employer once had the candidates do a test online at http://brainbench.com and we didn't have to pay (I can't remember the price but it wasn't that much I think) . At the time, I didn't expect it, but figured why not. So I took the test, and did pretty well on it. I ended up getting the job but since then, I use the scores I obtained on brainbench.com to answer "how do you rate yourself?". This is because the scores given to you tell you which percentile you are in compared to others who took the test. It's pretty cool... Ogden From jt at plainblack.com Mon Oct 4 12:13:01 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:07:43 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf7041004095816f02ff8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Maybe my description sells short, but I think we ended up on the same grade. You just described Andy Lester (except that he has touched Larry's moustache twice) and gave him a B+. The grade I gave myself is because: 1) I've never really used Test::More 2) And I have no formal programming training. So I don't have a good working knowledge of a lot of the design patterns and other things that I should know to be a truely good Perl programmer. On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:58:46 -0500 Jim Thomason wrote: >That sells yourself short. Standard grade range is A is top 10%, B is >top 20%, C is top 30%, etc. > >If you say you're a B, then that tells the interviewer if they >interview 100 people, they're likely to find one person better than >you. > >Restricting A level people down to only the gurus is silly and would >probably not be what an interviewer would do. > >If you want to hedge your bets, then the best thing would probably be >to rattle off the things that you know, and then come up with a grade. > >"Well, I contributed Foo::Bar to CPAN, I've deployed 17 sites in >mod_perl, I've optimized lots of code for big performance gains, I >once touched Larry Wall's moustache, and I can walk on water while >playing the ukelele. I'd say I'm a solid B+." > >Personally, when I was interviewing people, I'd only ask questions >like that to get a jumping off point for where I should start grilling >them when I did the tech eval. Having someone say, "I'm an A!" is >kinda useless, they need to prove it. So have the goods to back up >your claim, but don't sell yourself short. > >-Jim..... > >On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:52:22 -0500, JT Smith wrote: >> A+ = Larry Wall >> A = Damian Conway >> B+ = Andy Lester >> C+/B- = JT Smith >> >> To be in the A range, you'd have to be a Larry Wall, Randal Schwartz, Damian Conway >>type >> person I would think. Not that you have to be them, just that you have to know the >>inner >> workings of Perl, and all of the coolio tricks they do. >> >> If you know mod_perl, Perl core, Test::More, and a good working knowledge of CPAN, >>then >> you're probably in the B range. >> >> Anything else and your a lesser grade. >> >> That's my 2 cents. >> >> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:25:43 -0500 >> >> >> Chris McAvoy wrote: >> >I ran across a few Perl jobs on craigslist. After contacting one of >> >the recruiters, she asked me to grade myself, as in, am I a B+ Perl >> >developer? >> > >> >Any thoughts on a rule of thumb way to classify a developer? >> > >> >Something along the lines of: >> > >> >An A+ developer can do x y z from memory, and has probably contributed >> >to CPAN... >> > >> >would be helpful. Or maybe just a paragraph about, "so, you want to >> >be a full time Perl developer, here's the basic skill set..." >> > >> >Thanks, >> >Chris >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Chicago-talk mailing list >> >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> >> >> JT ~ Plain Black >> >> Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From thomasoniii at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 12:18:10 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:18:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <41618367.1040007@waste.org> References: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> <41618367.1040007@waste.org> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704100410187ffbcb57@mail.gmail.com> > So I took the test, and did pretty well on it. I ended up getting the > job but since then, I use the scores I obtained on brainbench.com to > answer "how do you rate yourself?". This is because the scores given to > you tell you which percentile you are in compared to others who took the > test. > > It's pretty cool... Brainbench used to be free for anybody to take, back in the good ole days of dotcoms and burnrates and theoretical future profits. Now they charge you (if you do it for yourself), or the company interviewing you (if it's an interview). Consequently, I haven't updated my brainbench certs in years and they're long since expired. Way back when, I took the test and scored #3 in the world. I never really put much stock in it, but I always listed it on my resume, it was fun leaping off point with an interviewer and usually got their attention. -Jim.... From thomasoniii at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 12:23:45 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:23:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: References: <5cfdfaf7041004095816f02ff8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7041004102355d8cb9b@mail.gmail.com> > Maybe my description sells short, but I think we ended up on the same grade. You just > described Andy Lester (except that he has touched Larry's moustache twice) and gave him > a B+. That's part of my point, the grades are pretty arbitrary. I'd probably actually say that person's an A. Another interviewer would say he's a C ("Well I'm sorry you feel I'm not qualified enough, Mr. Conway."). But without the justification behind it, it doesn't mean anything. if I have ideas in my head as to what constitutes an "A" person, and you have different ideas, and all we share is the letter, then someone's not going to get what they were hoping for. Andy's probably best qualified to comment on all of this, though. -Jim... From onefix at waste.org Mon Oct 4 12:29:04 2004 From: onefix at waste.org (ogden nefix) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:28:34 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704100410187ffbcb57@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> <41618367.1040007@waste.org> <5cfdfaf704100410187ffbcb57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41618860.4090404@waste.org> > Way back when, I took the test and scored #3 in the world. Not that you're still not #3 in the world, but it's been used by so many more people in the past few years so I am figuring it'll be harder to get the #3 in the world. Also, I didn't get the position in the world, but a "you're in the XX percentile". > I never really put much stock in it, but I always listed it on my > resume, it was fun leaping off point with an interviewer and usually > got their attention. Exactly. And it's the only real test one can do to guage themselves as to how well they're doing compared to the tens of thousands of others who took it. Which is a good way to measure. It has worked for me. From andy at petdance.com Mon Oct 4 12:45:05 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:45:09 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf7041004102355d8cb9b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf7041004095816f02ff8@mail.gmail.com> <5cfdfaf7041004102355d8cb9b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041004174505.GA28935@petdance.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 12:23:45PM -0500, Jim Thomason (thomasoniii@gmail.com) wrote: > Andy's probably best qualified to comment on all of this, though. You're right, and I feel it's time I pipe up. I'm definitely an A+. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Mon Oct 4 12:51:41 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Oct 4 12:51:42 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf7041004102355d8cb9b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf7041004095816f02ff8@mail.gmail.com> <5cfdfaf7041004102355d8cb9b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041004175141.GB28935@petdance.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 12:23:45PM -0500, Jim Thomason (thomasoniii@gmail.com) wrote: > Andy's probably best qualified to comment on all of this, though. Here's my take on all this: You're giving ranges. It's not a definite point in the sand. It's just to help the headhunter get an idea of what you're capable of doing. If you understand objects and mod_perl and why you should always localize $_ if you use it in a fuction, then you're closer to the A-end of things. If you've done some CGI scripting where you hacked a copy of some script you got somewhere, but that's about it, then you're closer to a D. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 13:02:07 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:02:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <20041004175141.GB28935@petdance.com> References: <5cfdfaf7041004095816f02ff8@mail.gmail.com> <5cfdfaf7041004102355d8cb9b@mail.gmail.com> <20041004175141.GB28935@petdance.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d04100411021eee60b3@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the replies. I ended up replying B+, which based on some of the responses sounds pretty reasonable. I classify it like this: * Can comprehend code at first glance. * Can code in a natural way, i.e. doesn't need to consult a reference at all times. * Can code regex's without a reference. * Understanding of mod_perl * Strong understanding of OO concepts, lots of OO module usage, moderate OO coding in Perl. Some things that I feel like would qualify A status: * Contributed "good" code to CPAN. * Testing methodology * Optimization * Lots and lots of OO coding in Perl / mod_perl. And here's a few hilarious jokes: * Isn't afraid to post to Chicago.PM * Went to a Chicago.PM meeting one time. * Has some Perl books. * Has a Perl t-shirt. * Breathes excessivly through mouth. * Snorts while laughing. Chris On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:51:41 -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 12:23:45PM -0500, Jim Thomason (thomasoniii@gmail.com) wrote: > > Andy's probably best qualified to comment on all of this, though. > > Here's my take on all this: You're giving ranges. It's not a definite > point in the sand. It's just to help the headhunter get an idea of what > you're capable of doing. If you understand objects and mod_perl and why > you should always localize $_ if you use it in a fuction, then you're > closer to the A-end of things. If you've done some CGI scripting where > you hacked a copy of some script you got somewhere, but that's about it, > then you're closer to a D. > > xoa > > > > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Chris From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Oct 4 13:08:59 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:09:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <41618367.1040007@waste.org> References: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> <41618367.1040007@waste.org> Message-ID: <5D355E70C174C50E67BEF471@duke.wrkhors.com> > An employer once had the candidates do a test online at > http://brainbench.com and we didn't have to pay (I can't remember the > price but it wasn't that much I think) . At the time, I didn't expect it, > but figured why not. > > So I took the test, and did pretty well on it. I ended up getting the job > but since then, I use the scores I obtained on brainbench.com to answer > "how do you rate yourself?". This is because the scores given to you tell > you which percentile you are in compared to others who took the test. > > It's pretty cool... I've taken the brainbench test a few times. They aren't very accurate -- a few obviously wrong answers, tend to be rather web-centric. I scored in the top 5% on their quiz and pretty much incompetent at commercial website design. Does that give me a 'C average' or just mean that I shouldn't take on commercial webserver projects? The thing is that most people have strengths and weaknesses as programmers, professionals, or perl hackers. There is no reason that someone can't be 'A' in one area and 'C' in another. You have to rate yoursrself in terms of the work being performed. Most people tend to under-rate them selves if anything. If you are competent to write code given specs then that puts you ahead of half the people who've worked for me at least. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jt at plainblack.com Mon Oct 4 13:20:43 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:15:27 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <20041004174505.GA28935@petdance.com> Message-ID: >I'm definitely an A+. Ok. That's it. I definitely overestimated here. Instead of a B+, I must detract two grades for arrogance. Andy is now a D+. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Oct 4 13:16:39 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:16:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? Message-ID: <1ED73162C5104B832F025E40@duke.wrkhors.com> > Any thoughts on a rule of thumb way to classify a developer? Regardless of language: A: You get things done with documented, maintainable code, on time, within budget, exceeding your clients' expectations, including messy situations with difficult data or timeframes. If you cut your teeth on deathmarch projects or have return customers then you can probably shoot for an A. B: You get things done, might not docuemnt them fully, might not handle messy data as well, have difficulty with complex data structures or refactoring code then you are probably a B. Finding out whether other people can maintain your code (or use it once its written) are decent checks. A & B programmers tend to get assignments working by themselves or as leads/architects where their work can screw up other people. C: Competent working under a lead programmer, can produce well-documented, running code given workable specs. D: Lead programmer has to eyeball everything you do because it tends to either be error-laden or use techniques that belong in the Twilight Zone. Requires significant prodding to produce comments or doc's. F: The idiot who writes pong lookalikes in shell because noone allows them to work on anything significant. Most people get different grades on different subject [hey! just like Real Life(tm)]. Damian Conway is a brilliant designer, hates comments, doesn't like to maintain code, and has generated some of the most unmaintainable code I've encountered (and, yes, I maintain some of it). He is a wonderful lecturer and has certianly made "OO Perl" a meaningful phrase. He is also the last person most people would hire for development work: he's a tool builder not a heads-down hacker. So, is he an A or a C? Answer really is "it depends." If you really want to find a top-notch perl hacker look at Tim Bunce or Graham Barr. They've written some of the least flashy, hardest-working, most-used perl code ever. Graham in particular has written code to handle truly messy data structures and exceptions in networks with workable interfaces. Ditto DBI: it handels some really messy situations with a simple interface and Just Works. For someone hiring a perl hacker that is what really counts. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From andy at petdance.com Mon Oct 4 13:29:38 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:29:40 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: References: <20041004174505.GA28935@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20041004182938.GA29088@petdance.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 01:20:43PM -0500, JT Smith (jt@plainblack.com) wrote: > Ok. That's it. I definitely overestimated here. Instead of a B+, I must > detract two grades for arrogance. Andy is now a D+. You're confusing arrogance with hubris! -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Mon Oct 4 13:17:01 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Mon Oct 4 13:57:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <20041004175141.GB28935@petdance.com> Message-ID: > ... and why you should always localize $_ if you use it in a fuction ... ulp! a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Oct 4 15:10:07 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Oct 4 15:10:26 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D368AE472C7552457969B9C@duke.wrkhors.com> -- Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov >> ... and why you should always localize $_ if you use it in a fuction > > ... ulp! Always is a dangerous word... are you saying I should localize $_ before using it in map or for loops? -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Oct 4 15:10:37 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Oct 4 15:10:55 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <20041004182938.GA29088@petdance.com> References: <20041004174505.GA28935@petdance.com> <20041004182938.GA29088@petdance.com> Message-ID: <869918C1E8ED523DA3527E5D@duke.wrkhors.com> > You're confusing arrogance with hubris! OK, D- -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Mon Oct 4 15:19:49 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Mon Oct 4 15:19:53 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <869918C1E8ED523DA3527E5D@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: OED says, you pick 'em: The taking of too much upon oneself as one's right; the assertion of unwarrantable claims in respect of one's own importance; undue assumption of dignity, authority, or knowledge; aggressive conceit, presumption, or haughtiness. or: Presumption, orig. towards the gods; pride, excessive self-confidence. In either case a might fine line for any programmer types, though I do feel better about having used "arrogance" to describe a perceived problem w/ Microsoft/BillG in a 'customr satisfaction' survey they asked me to do recently. Wish I'd worked "hubris" in there too. a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" From shild at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 4 18:20:54 2004 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Mon Oct 4 18:16:39 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096932054.410.118.camel@localhost> All this skill talk has reminded me to post a job opening to the list. We are looking for a developer/analyst (I think official title is Programmer/Analyst :-) ). Actually here is the web posting, http://www.allantgroup.com/overview/job_pa.html. If you have experience with RDBMS (Oracle big plus), mysql, Perl (DBI/DBD, we use Perl to process records, load DB's, Reporting, ...etc), C (not necessary), Java (most our web development is in Java, I don't think it is a requirement) and are interested send me a resume at shildreth@allantgroup.com. I can get it to the manager who is hiring, I told him I would post to the list. Brief and incomplete description, but if you are interested I can fill you in more. The company is located at (basically) RT 59 & I88. STH > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From jason at multiply.org Tue Oct 5 10:11:59 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Oct 5 10:12:11 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night Message-ID: <1096989119.4162b9bfebf59@manage.multiply.org> Hi All. Just a reminder that our meeting is tomorrow night at the Grays Lake Public Library @ 7 o'clock. Marsee from O'reilly sent us 3 copies of the Mason book to give away, which was nice. Its a good book, btw. Also, would anyone be able to pick me up from the metra station? Anyone else riding the metra out from union station? Thanks! -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From andy at petdance.com Tue Oct 5 12:22:50 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue Oct 5 12:22:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 Message-ID: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> New version of Devel::Cover, kids! ----- Forwarded message from PAUSE ----- Return-Path: X-Original-To: andy@petdance.com Delivered-To: andy@petdance.com Received: from lists.develooper.com (x6.develooper.com [63.251.223.186]) by baby.petdance.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EB1543D9A for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:18:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 4590 invoked by uid 514); 5 Oct 2004 17:18:14 -0000 Mailing-List: contact cpan-testers-help@perl.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Delivered-To: mailing list cpan-testers@perl.org Received: (qmail 4583 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2004 17:18:13 -0000 Delivered-To: cpan-testers@perl.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Check-By: la.mx.develooper.com Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:18:04 +0200 Message-Id: <200410051718.i95HI4id029980@pause.perl.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: CPAN Upload: P/PJ/PJCJ/Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=UTF-8 Reply-To: cpan-testers@perl.org To: cpan-testers@perl.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: PAUSE The uploaded file Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz has entered CPAN as file: $CPAN/authors/id/P/PJ/PJCJ/Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz size: 98953 bytes md5: ea3e443882fb8182bbdcd46577a7e178 No action is required on your part Request entered by: PJCJ (Paul Johnson) Request entered on: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:16:51 GMT Request completed: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:18:03 GMT Thanks, -- paused, v460 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Tue Oct 5 12:37:11 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Tue Oct 5 12:37:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 In-Reply-To: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> References: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> Message-ID: <37097.12.119.251.194.1096997831.squirrel@12.119.251.194> I'm asking before I rtfm so don't get on me to much if there's an easy answer to this Q. Is there an easy way to automatically keep all cpan modules up to date on a system? Jon > New version of Devel::Cover, kids! > > ----- Forwarded message from PAUSE ----- > > Return-Path: > X-Original-To: andy@petdance.com > Delivered-To: andy@petdance.com > Received: from lists.develooper.com (x6.develooper.com [63.251.223.186]) > by baby.petdance.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EB1543D9A > for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:18:14 -0500 (CDT) > Received: (qmail 4590 invoked by uid 514); 5 Oct 2004 17:18:14 -0000 > Mailing-List: contact cpan-testers-help@perl.org; run by ezmlm > Precedence: bulk > list-help: > list-unsubscribe: > list-post: > Delivered-To: mailing list cpan-testers@perl.org > Received: (qmail 4583 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2004 17:18:13 -0000 > Delivered-To: cpan-testers@perl.org > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=8.0 > tests=BAYES_00 > X-Spam-Check-By: la.mx.develooper.com > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:18:04 +0200 > Message-Id: <200410051718.i95HI4id029980@pause.perl.org> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Subject: CPAN Upload: P/PJ/PJCJ/Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz > Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=UTF-8 > Reply-To: cpan-testers@perl.org > To: cpan-testers@perl.org > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > From: PAUSE > > The uploaded file > > Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz > > has entered CPAN as > > file: $CPAN/authors/id/P/PJ/PJCJ/Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz > size: 98953 bytes > md5: ea3e443882fb8182bbdcd46577a7e178 > > No action is required on your part > Request entered by: PJCJ (Paul Johnson) > Request entered on: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:16:51 GMT > Request completed: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:18:03 GMT > > Thanks, > -- > paused, v460 > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From andy at petdance.com Tue Oct 5 12:49:11 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue Oct 5 12:49:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 In-Reply-To: <37097.12.119.251.194.1096997831.squirrel@12.119.251.194> References: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> <37097.12.119.251.194.1096997831.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <20041005174911.GA32119@petdance.com> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 12:37:11PM -0500, jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) wrote: > Is there an easy way to automatically keep all cpan modules up to date on > a system? No, and you don't want to anyway. How do you know if a module is going to break something? And what good is updating a module for no reason? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From easyasy2k at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 12:54:25 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Tue Oct 5 12:54:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <1096989119.4162b9bfebf59@manage.multiply.org> References: <1096989119.4162b9bfebf59@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <2df270ef041005105423c67a4a@mail.gmail.com> I'm running out from union too. What time are you leaving? On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:11:59 -0500, jason@multiply.org wrote: > Hi All. > > Just a reminder that our meeting is tomorrow night at the Grays Lake Public > Library @ 7 o'clock. Marsee from O'reilly sent us 3 copies of the Mason book > to give away, which was nice. Its a good book, btw. > > Also, would anyone be able to pick me up from the metra station? Anyone else > riding the metra out from union station? > > Thanks! > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From andy at petdance.com Tue Oct 5 13:42:56 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue Oct 5 13:42:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tomorrow's meeting Message-ID: <20041005184256.GB32205@petdance.com> I'll be at tomorrow's meeting for the beginning, but then will have to go home for bed time. Not mine, Quinn's. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jason at multiply.org Tue Oct 5 14:44:19 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Oct 5 14:44:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <2df270ef041005105423c67a4a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1096989119.4162b9bfebf59@manage.multiply.org> <2df270ef041005105423c67a4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097005459.4162f993e713b@manage.multiply.org> looks like the 5:25 will get us out there in plenty of time. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org Quoting Leland Johnson : > I'm running out from union too. What time are you leaving? > > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:11:59 -0500, jason@multiply.org > wrote: > > Hi All. > > > > Just a reminder that our meeting is tomorrow night at the Grays Lake Public > > Library @ 7 o'clock. Marsee from O'reilly sent us 3 copies of the Mason > book > > to give away, which was nice. Its a good book, btw. > > > > Also, would anyone be able to pick me up from the metra station? Anyone > else > > riding the metra out from union station? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -jason gessner > > jason@multiply.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Oct 5 15:55:09 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Oct 5 15:55:30 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 In-Reply-To: <37097.12.119.251.194.1096997831.squirrel@12.119.251.194> References: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> <37097.12.119.251.194.1096997831.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <0EED4B318975E2EF5740174C@duke.wrkhors.com> -- jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > I'm asking before I rtfm so don't get on me to much if there's an easy > answer to this Q. > > Is there an easy way to automatically keep all cpan modules up to date on > a system? $ perl -MCPAN -e shell; > r will show you what's out of date. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Oct 5 15:57:47 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Oct 5 15:58:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 In-Reply-To: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> References: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> Message-ID: <0C30F793CF4D91C4318F5818@duke.wrkhors.com> Doc bug: missing =head1 AUTHOR -- Andy Lester > New version of Devel::Cover, kids! > > ----- Forwarded message from PAUSE ----- > > Return-Path: > X-Original-To: andy@petdance.com > Delivered-To: andy@petdance.com > Received: from lists.develooper.com (x6.develooper.com [63.251.223.186]) > by baby.petdance.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EB1543D9A > for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:18:14 -0500 (CDT) > Received: (qmail 4590 invoked by uid 514); 5 Oct 2004 17:18:14 -0000 > Mailing-List: contact cpan-testers-help@perl.org; run by ezmlm > Precedence: bulk > list-help: > list-unsubscribe: > list-post: > Delivered-To: mailing list cpan-testers@perl.org > Received: (qmail 4583 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2004 17:18:13 -0000 > Delivered-To: cpan-testers@perl.org > X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=8.0 > tests=BAYES_00 > X-Spam-Check-By: la.mx.develooper.com > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:18:04 +0200 > Message-Id: <200410051718.i95HI4id029980@pause.perl.org> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Subject: CPAN Upload: P/PJ/PJCJ/Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz > Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=UTF-8 > Reply-To: cpan-testers@perl.org > To: cpan-testers@perl.org > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > From: PAUSE > > The uploaded file > > Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz > > has entered CPAN as > > file: $CPAN/authors/id/P/PJ/PJCJ/Devel-Cover-0.48.tar.gz > size: 98953 bytes > md5: ea3e443882fb8182bbdcd46577a7e178 > > No action is required on your part > Request entered by: PJCJ (Paul Johnson) > Request entered on: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:16:51 GMT > Request completed: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:18:03 GMT > > Thanks, > -- > paused, v460 > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jason at multiply.org Tue Oct 5 16:01:10 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Oct 5 16:01:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <2df270ef041005105423c67a4a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1096989119.4162b9bfebf59@manage.multiply.org> <2df270ef041005105423c67a4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097010070.41630b96ebf5a@manage.multiply.org> Is anyone driving back towards the schaumburg/elgin area? I need to hitch a ride if possible. Thanks! -jason gessner jason@multiply.org Quoting Leland Johnson : > I'm running out from union too. What time are you leaving? > > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:11:59 -0500, jason@multiply.org > wrote: > > Hi All. > > > > Just a reminder that our meeting is tomorrow night at the Grays Lake Public > > Library @ 7 o'clock. Marsee from O'reilly sent us 3 copies of the Mason > book > > to give away, which was nice. Its a good book, btw. > > > > Also, would anyone be able to pick me up from the metra station? Anyone > else > > riding the metra out from union station? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -jason gessner > > jason@multiply.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From andy at petdance.com Tue Oct 5 16:12:53 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue Oct 5 16:12:54 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 In-Reply-To: <0C30F793CF4D91C4318F5818@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> <0C30F793CF4D91C4318F5818@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <20041005211253.GB32252@petdance.com> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 04:57:47PM -0400, Steven Lembark (lembark@wrkhors.com) wrote: > > Doc bug: missing > > =head1 AUTHOR Don't tell me. Tell PJCJ. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From mbl at lelnet.com Wed Oct 6 07:29:30 2004 From: mbl at lelnet.com (Matthew Landry) Date: Wed Oct 6 07:29:34 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Qualify Skills? In-Reply-To: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d04100409254cc2d80a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041006122930.GB32714@finitysend.lelnet.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 11:25:43AM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > I ran across a few Perl jobs on craigslist. After contacting one of the > recruiters, she asked me to grade myself, as in, am I a B+ Perl > developer? Interpret that question as a request to describe what you can do, that's either intrinsically hard, fundamentally interesting, or directly related to the needs of the prospective employer, and under what circumstances. One of the best jobs I've ever had was clinched with an answer to a comparable question ("scale of 1 to 10") where my answer amounted to "Well...that all depends...I've always been really good at X, and was able to use that to particularly good effect for Y employer when Z happened, as I imagine it sometimes happens to you...I'm not as strong in A as some people I know and respect, but I've found that by carefully doing B and relying on good references that isn't a big hindrance in the real world...I've known some 10s and had the good fortune to learn from them, and I'd call myself a 9...what do you think?" You want the punchline to indicate confidence tempered with realism...but the most important thing is to turn the answer into a story about what a great guy you are and how your skills are a perfect match for their business needs. > > Any thoughts on a rule of thumb way to classify a developer? Rules of thumb about _specific_ skills lead to bad decisions in these cases. For any given employer there will be a lot of universally- recognized skills they don't care about at all, and a lot of unique and special skills that are really important and they're praying they don't have to train you in-house. An "A" candidate, to them, is probably a candidate who has the latter kind of skills. A "B" candidate is a candidate who doesn't, but has a proven track record of learning comparably arcane skills previously. A "C" candidate is one with no record, positive or negative, for the arcane, but all the "universal" prerequisites that the employer actually _does_ care about. In the modern market, if you've actually been permitted to hear the live voice of an employee at the company above the rank of receptionist, you can assume they already think you're at least a "C", and if you're in their office or speaking to someone who doesn't work in HR, they're convinced you're at least a "B". Anything more specific than that, and IMHO you'd have to be discussing companies (or at least market fields) by name. -- Matthew Landry mbl@lelnet.com O- LEL Network Services Anti-Stupid Talisman "You don't have to outrun the bear. Just outrun the slowest hiker." GPG Fingerprint: 842E B9FC BA37 3C4F BBFA 91A8 CA08 40FB 8561 71A7 From me at heyjay.com Wed Oct 6 08:56:59 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Wed Oct 6 08:51:49 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] re: Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize [solved by Leland Johnson] Message-ID: <4163F9AB.7010409@heyjay.com> Hi, Just to close this thread. Leland Johnson showed me how to do this. It turns out it was more complex than it appeared. While Andy wanted to beat me up and accuse me of not reading the docs, it turns out the javascript was re-writing the action of the page, so I was asking the wrong page to do what I wanted. Below is the solution, and I just wanted to publicly thank Leland for his help. ------------------ #!/usr/bin/perl my $ticker = 'qqq'; use WWW::Mechanize; my $url = "http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteTableDownload.aspx"; my $mech = WWW::Mechanize->new(); $mech->get( $url ); # Set the form as best we can through the easy methods $mech->form(1); $mech->set_fields( ticker => $ticker); # Here's where we do what the javascript does my $form = $mech->current_form; $form->action('http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteData.dat'); $form->find_input('__VIEWSTATE')->name('NOVIEWSTATE'); # Send off the request my $request = $form->click; $mech->request($request, "$ticker.txt"); From crome at devnetinc.com Wed Oct 6 09:00:28 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Wed Oct 6 08:59:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <1097010070.41630b96ebf5a@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <20041006140127.6D020239424@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Just making sure you got my last reply. Only had mutt to check email with last night, and I had no way of knowing if you got the reply I sent ;) Anyhow, will be happy to take you back home after the meeting :) Take care, and I'll see you then. -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of > jason@multiply.org > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 4:01 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night > > Is anyone driving back towards the schaumburg/elgin area? > > I need to hitch a ride if possible. > > Thanks! > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > > > Quoting Leland Johnson : > > > I'm running out from union too. What time are you leaving? > > > > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:11:59 -0500, jason@multiply.org > > wrote: > > > Hi All. > > > > > > Just a reminder that our meeting is tomorrow night at the > Grays Lake > > > Public Library @ 7 o'clock. Marsee from O'reilly sent us > 3 copies > > > of the Mason > > book > > > to give away, which was nice. Its a good book, btw. > > > > > > Also, would anyone be able to pick me up from the metra station? > > > Anyone > > else > > > riding the metra out from union station? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > -jason gessner > > > jason@multiply.org > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From crome at devnetinc.com Wed Oct 6 09:00:56 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Wed Oct 6 08:59:33 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night In-Reply-To: <1097010070.41630b96ebf5a@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <20041006140155.AAA9A239424@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Dammit, hate it when I send to the list when I don't mean to ;) -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of > jason@multiply.org > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 4:01 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Mason Presentation Tomorrow night > > Is anyone driving back towards the schaumburg/elgin area? > > I need to hitch a ride if possible. > > Thanks! > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > > > Quoting Leland Johnson : > > > I'm running out from union too. What time are you leaving? > > > > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:11:59 -0500, jason@multiply.org > > wrote: > > > Hi All. > > > > > > Just a reminder that our meeting is tomorrow night at the > Grays Lake > > > Public Library @ 7 o'clock. Marsee from O'reilly sent us > 3 copies > > > of the Mason > > book > > > to give away, which was nice. Its a good book, btw. > > > > > > Also, would anyone be able to pick me up from the metra station? > > > Anyone > > else > > > riding the metra out from union station? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > -jason gessner > > > jason@multiply.org > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From axs at m-net.arbornet.org Sun Oct 3 22:57:53 2004 From: axs at m-net.arbornet.org (Alex) Date: Wed Oct 6 09:21:41 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize References: <415D0366.8050806@heyjay.com> <415E04E9.1040504@heyjay.com> <415E355F.6010701@heyjay.com> <415E364A.4010002@heyjay.com> <2df270ef0410012206267b8069@mail.gmail.com> <415EAA5D.8000304@heyjay.com> <415EC4F4.1020102@heyjay.com> <415EE267.80202@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <002a01c4a9c6$53f80b40$e571d040@aisnetwork.net> add another $mech->submit_form() after the first one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Strauss" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize > Andy Lester wrote: > > >> > >> I know your trying to help. But all the examples, the cookbook, the > >> docs talk about having a url to get. I'm not doing a "get", I'm > >> doing a "post". I can't supply |:content_file option.| > > > > > > And once you post, and it sends you a file back, it's in your > > $agent->content. Write that out to a file. > > > > xoa > > > Isn't that what I'm doing with my original posting of my code?? > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use WWW::Mechanize; > my $url = "http://www.cboe.com/DelayedQuote/QuoteTableDownload.aspx"; > > my $mech = WWW::Mechanize->new(); > $mech->get( $url ); > > my $res = $mech->submit_form( > form_number => 1, > fields => {ticker => 'QQQ'}, > ); > > print $mech->content; > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From thomasoniii at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 09:29:03 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Wed Oct 6 09:29:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] re: Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize [solved by Leland Johnson] In-Reply-To: <4163F9AB.7010409@heyjay.com> References: <4163F9AB.7010409@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704100607293e23c218@mail.gmail.com> > Just to close this thread. Leland Johnson showed me how to do this. Well, one thing's for sure, if anybody knows how to programmatically violate a free web-based datasource and use it for his own nefarious ends, it's Leland. :-) -Jim..... From jason at multiply.org Wed Oct 6 10:07:06 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Wed Oct 6 10:07:17 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ride from the metra for some wheel-less pm'ers? Message-ID: <1097075226.41640a1a410f9@manage.multiply.org> Hi all. If anyone is driving to the meeting tonight, would someone mind picking Leland and me up at the metra station? Thanks! -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From frag at ripco.com Wed Oct 6 10:29:39 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Wed Oct 6 10:29:43 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ride from the metra for some wheel-less pm'ers? In-Reply-To: <1097075226.41640a1a410f9@manage.multiply.org> References: <1097075226.41640a1a410f9@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: I can. -- Mike F. On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 jason@multiply.org wrote: > Hi all. > > If anyone is driving to the meeting tonight, would someone mind picking Leland > and me up at the metra station? > > Thanks! > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 10:44:15 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Oct 6 10:44:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] re: Downloading a file via WWW::Mechanize [solved by Leland Johnson] In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704100607293e23c218@mail.gmail.com> References: <4163F9AB.7010409@heyjay.com> <5cfdfaf704100607293e23c218@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef04100608445b58bdf9@mail.gmail.com> Now that's just not fair Jim... These people are doing the same thing, but they use (gasp) dotnet: http://libraryelf.com/ On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:29:03 -0500, Jim Thomason wrote: > > Just to close this thread. Leland Johnson showed me how to do this. > > Well, one thing's for sure, if anybody knows how to programmatically > violate a free web-based datasource and use it for his own nefarious > ends, it's Leland. :-) > > -Jim..... > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From jason at multiply.org Wed Oct 6 11:13:07 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Wed Oct 6 11:13:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ride from the metra for some wheel-less pm'ers? In-Reply-To: References: <1097075226.41640a1a410f9@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <1097079187.41641993dfc0a@manage.multiply.org> sweet. thanks, Frag. grayslake metra. Gets in around 6:35. :) -jason gessner jason@multiply.org Quoting Mike Fragassi : > > I can. > > -- Mike F. > > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 jason@multiply.org wrote: > > > Hi all. > > > > If anyone is driving to the meeting tonight, would someone mind picking > Leland > > and me up at the metra station? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -jason gessner > > jason@multiply.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From frag at ripco.com Wed Oct 6 13:29:04 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Wed Oct 6 13:34:15 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ride from the metra for some wheel-less pm'ers? In-Reply-To: <1097079187.41641993dfc0a@manage.multiply.org> References: <1097075226.41640a1a410f9@manage.multiply.org> <1097079187.41641993dfc0a@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: OK, I'll be there at 6:30, barring traffic/car problems. If anyone else needs a ride, let me know ASAP. -- Mike F. On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 jason@multiply.org wrote: > sweet. thanks, Frag. > > grayslake metra. Gets in around 6:35. > > :) > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Wed Oct 6 15:07:40 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Wed Oct 6 15:08:00 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fw: Mason question Message-ID: Isn't the meeting about Mason? Any guesses? ----- Forwarded by Andy Bach/WIWB/07/USCOURTS on 10/06/2004 03:07 PM ----- Sent by: perl-win32-users-bounces@listserv.ActiveState.com 10/06/2004 02:57 PM To cc Subject Mason question I'm messing around with Mason and trying to get it to work on Windoze, but seems not quite right. Has anyone had success running this on w32? I set up my virtual root, and the proper mappings to a .mason extension "just for testing" and it will parse my html, but anything else won't work. My example script below: Test Mason Page My test page <% 1900+(localtime)[5] %> 2 + 2 = <% 2 + 2 %> I have my application mapping as: C:\Perl\bin\Perl.exe c:\atm\cgi_handler.pl And the example cgi_handler.pl is: #!/usr/bin/perl # # This is a basic, fairly fuctional Mason handler.pl. # # For something a little more involved, check out session_handler.pl package HTML::Mason; # Bring in main Mason package. use HTML::Mason; # Bring in ApacheHandler, necessary for mod_perl integration. # Uncomment the second line (and comment the first) to use # Apache::Request instead of CGI.pm to parse arguments. # use HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler; # use HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler (args_method=>'mod_perl'); # Uncomment the next line if you plan to use the Mason previewer. #use HTML::Mason::Preview; use strict; # List of modules that you want to use from components (see Admin # manual for details) #{ package HTML::Mason::Commands; # use CGI; #} # Create Mason objects # my $parser = new HTML::Mason::Parser; my $interp = new HTML::Mason::Interp (parser=>$parser, comp_root=>'c:/atm', data_dir=>'c:/atm-data'); use CGI; my $q = new CGI; my (%args); foreach my $key ( $q->param ) { foreach my $value ( $q->param($key) ) { if (exists($args{$key})) { if (ref($args{$key})) { $args{ $key} = [@{$args{$key}}, $value]; } else { $args{$key} = [$args{$key}, $value]; } } else { $args{$key} = $value; } } } my $comp = $ENV{'PATH_TRANSLATED'}; $comp =~ s/\\/\//g; my $root = $interp->comp_root; $comp =~ s/^$root// or die "Component outside comp_root $root"; print("Content-type: text/html\n\n"); $interp->exec($comp, %args); I'm just trying to figure this out. Any help? Thanks, Allan _______________________________________________ Perl-Win32-Users mailing list Perl-Win32-Users@listserv.ActiveState.com To unsubscribe: http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/mysubs From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 15:10:08 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Oct 6 15:11:00 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ride from the metra for some wheel-less pm'ers? In-Reply-To: References: <1097075226.41640a1a410f9@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <2df270ef0410061310582ac901@mail.gmail.com> I'd also like to thank you. On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:29:39 -0500 (CDT), Mike Fragassi wrote: > > I can. > > -- Mike F. > > > > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 jason@multiply.org wrote: > > > Hi all. > > > > If anyone is driving to the meeting tonight, would someone mind picking Leland > > and me up at the metra station? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -jason gessner > > jason@multiply.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From jason at multiply.org Wed Oct 6 15:29:37 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Wed Oct 6 15:29:49 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fw: Mason question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097094577.416455b14ad53@manage.multiply.org> Quoting Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov: > Isn't the meeting about Mason? Any guesses? > Yes it is. Unfortunately, i have not had the distinct displeasure of coding for IIS in a number of years. My intiial thought is that i need to see more info. My guess is that the mason interpreter isn't even getting those requests. I would try setting it up to use an HTML::Mason::CGIHandler object. There should be an example at http://www.masonhq.com/ -jason gessner jason@multiply.org > ----- Forwarded by Andy Bach/WIWB/07/USCOURTS on 10/06/2004 03:07 PM ----- > > > Sent by: perl-win32-users-bounces@listserv.ActiveState.com > 10/06/2004 02:57 PM > > To > > cc > > Subject > Mason question > > > > > > > I'm messing around with Mason and trying to get it to work > on Windoze, but seems not quite right. Has anyone had > success running this on w32? I set up my virtual root, and > the proper mappings to a .mason extension "just for > testing" and it will parse my html, but anything else won't > work. My example script below: > > > > > Test Mason Page > > > > > > > My test page <% 1900+(localtime)[5] %> 2 + 2 = <% 2 + 2 %> > > > > > > > I have my application mapping as: > > C:\Perl\bin\Perl.exe c:\atm\cgi_handler.pl > > And the example cgi_handler.pl is: > > > #!/usr/bin/perl > # > # This is a basic, fairly fuctional Mason handler.pl. > # > # For something a little more involved, check out > session_handler.pl > > package HTML::Mason; > > # Bring in main Mason package. > use HTML::Mason; > > # Bring in ApacheHandler, necessary for mod_perl > integration. > # Uncomment the second line (and comment the first) to use > # Apache::Request instead of CGI.pm to parse arguments. > # use HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler; > # use HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler (args_method=>'mod_perl'); > > # Uncomment the next line if you plan to use the Mason > previewer. > #use HTML::Mason::Preview; > > use strict; > > # List of modules that you want to use from components (see > Admin > # manual for details) > #{ package HTML::Mason::Commands; > # use CGI; > #} > > # Create Mason objects > # > my $parser = new HTML::Mason::Parser; > my $interp = new HTML::Mason::Interp (parser=>$parser, > comp_root=>'c:/atm', > data_dir=>'c:/atm-data'); > > use CGI; > my $q = new CGI; > > my (%args); > > foreach my $key ( $q->param ) { > foreach my $value ( $q->param($key) ) { > if (exists($args{$key})) { > if (ref($args{$key})) { > $args{ $key} = > [@{$args{$key}}, $value]; > } else { > $args{$key} = [$args{$key}, > $value]; > } > } else { > $args{$key} = $value; > } > } > } > > my $comp = $ENV{'PATH_TRANSLATED'}; > $comp =~ s/\\/\//g; > my $root = $interp->comp_root; > $comp =~ s/^$root// or die "Component outside comp_root > $root"; > > print("Content-type: text/html\n\n"); > $interp->exec($comp, %args); > > > I'm just trying to figure this out. Any help? > > Thanks, > Allan > _______________________________________________ > Perl-Win32-Users mailing list > Perl-Win32-Users@listserv.ActiveState.com > To unsubscribe: http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/mysubs > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Oct 6 17:09:12 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Oct 6 17:09:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 In-Reply-To: <20041005211253.GB32252@petdance.com> References: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> <0C30F793CF4D91C4318F5818@duke.wrkhors.com> <20041005211253.GB32252@petdance.com> Message-ID: <82361F308D87BF14BF7EFA7E@duke.wrkhors.com> > Don't tell me. Tell PJCJ. fine, except that I've no idea who that is given the lack of an author field in the POD :-) -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Oct 6 17:14:09 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Oct 6 17:14:26 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Speaking of Mason... Message-ID: <5A1CDD988C7DB942ECBBF376@duke.wrkhors.com> Got a recent reference for NYC firm needing contract Mason work (apparently they've dumped a developer on the project and need someone to cleanup/finish the work). They are looking for someone who has done Mason work on an e-commerce site already, pref. with available online content they can view. They can handle telecommutes but will probably need some face time up front. Anyone interested please contact me off the list. thanx -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From andy at petdance.com Wed Oct 6 17:39:31 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Oct 6 17:39:32 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] New Devel::Cover, 0.48 In-Reply-To: <82361F308D87BF14BF7EFA7E@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <20041005172250.GB31982@petdance.com> <0C30F793CF4D91C4318F5818@duke.wrkhors.com> <20041005211253.GB32252@petdance.com> <82361F308D87BF14BF7EFA7E@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <20041006223931.GB4098@petdance.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 06:09:12PM -0400, Steven Lembark (lembark@wrkhors.com) wrote: > > >Don't tell me. Tell PJCJ. > > fine, except that I've no idea who that is given the lack of > an author field in the POD :-) You got it from the CPAN, dincha? -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From reuven at lerner.co.il Fri Oct 8 09:58:48 2004 From: reuven at lerner.co.il (Reuven M. Lerner) Date: Fri Oct 8 09:58:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Part-time Linux admin/consultant needed Message-ID: <4166AB28.4070301@lerner.co.il> Hi, everyone. While I realize that this isn't 100 percent Perl related, there's enough overlap that I figure that it's appropriate -- basically, a client of mine needs some help with installing and maintaining a Linux box for which I'm writing a Web/database application. The client is in Evanston, and probably wouldn't need more than a few hours/month of assistance. But they do need regular, secure backups, and need to be really sure that things will be pretty stable. And if something goes wrong, they need to know that they can get reasonable, reliable service in fixing the problem ASAP. If you're interested, or know of someone who might be, please send e-mail to me at , and I'll provide more details. Thanks, and have a great weekend! Reuven From frag at ripco.com Fri Oct 8 16:43:06 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Fri Oct 8 16:43:09 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next month's meeting Message-ID: It was decided at the meeting that if we don't have a good alternative location lined up by next Wednesday, we'll reconvene at the Grayslake library. I assume that we'll go back to Tuesdays, unless it was moved because some people can't ever do Wednesdays. If that's the case, please speak up. Meeting topic: unless someone who wasn't there has something planned, it'll be JT on HTML::Template. (Right, JT?) So, if you were one of the people who has leads on an alternative venue, please find out what you can about it ASAP, and post it to the list. We need to know: * whether they'll let our group use it in the first place * location * seating capacity * cost * projector availability -- Mike F. From jt at plainblack.com Fri Oct 8 18:25:05 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Fri Oct 8 18:19:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next month's meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >It was decided at the meeting that if we don't have a good alternative >location lined up by next Wednesday, we'll reconvene at the Grayslake >library. I assume that we'll go back to Tuesdays, unless it was moved >because some people can't ever do Wednesdays. If that's the case, please >speak up. Actually it was moved to Wednesday because the first Tuesday of the month the Library has it's staff meeting in the room. >Meeting topic: unless someone who wasn't there has something planned, >it'll be JT on HTML::Template. (Right, JT?) It will? Ok. I can do that. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From sburke at cpan.org Mon Oct 11 00:45:54 2004 From: sburke at cpan.org (Sean M. Burke) Date: Mon Oct 11 07:24:32 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.1.20041010214218.031701a0@mailstore.pobox.com> At 04:29 AM 2004-09-20, Shawn Carroll wrote: >[...] We think we may have found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested >comments. OK, Gisle and I are merrily unanimous on this point: >To: "Sean M. Burke" >Subject: Re: Nested comments in HTML >From: Gisle Aas >Date: 10 Oct 2004 22:30:29 -0700 > >"Sean M. Burke" writes: >>[...]I'm tempted to say "that because there's /no such thing/ as nested >>comments in HTML". >> >>What do you think? > >I think exactly the same. I even know that there's no such thing :) -- Sean M. Burke http://search.cpan.org/~sburke/ From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Tue Oct 12 07:37:10 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Tue Oct 12 07:37:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting Message-ID: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Hi All, I'd like to suggest a time/place for the next eXtreme Piranha meetup. Saturday Oct. 23 at the same place as last time(Panera Bread in Evanston). Please RSVP on here so that I can try to get a count. :) Also I'm flexible as to what time everyone wants to actually get going. Jon From easyasy2k at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 12:51:55 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Tue Oct 12 12:51:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> References: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> I'll be there again. On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:37:10 -0500 (CDT), jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > Hi All, > > I'd like to suggest a time/place for the next eXtreme Piranha meetup. > Saturday Oct. 23 at the same place as last time(Panera Bread in Evanston). > Please RSVP on here so that I can try to get a count. :) Also I'm > flexible as to what time everyone wants to actually get going. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From thomasoniii at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 21:07:44 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Tue Oct 12 21:07:51 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> In retrospect, this is a 'duh' optimization, but its uses are limited enough that I guess it makes sense that I hadn't thought of it before. One standard thing that I do fairly regularly is use objects as keys into a hash. sub expensive_calculation { my $self = shift; return $cached_calculations{$self} if defined $cached_calculations{$self}; my $calculation = $self->_expensive_calculation; $cached_calculations{$self} = $calculation; return $calculation; } (yes, for the pedantic out there, that can be written tighter and faster, but since the expensive calculation is only done once, I greatly prefer expanding the syntax and having it be more legible) Literally using the object as a key into a hash. So we can do our big expensive calculations, then cache the value based upon the memory address of the object. Subsequent hits only require the time for a hash lookup, not to constantly re-do the expensive calculation. Joy! Your program leaps in speed. But, alas, that was not good enough for me. I'm currently optimizing Basset and wringing as much speed as I possibly can out of it. I had one method that was much slower than I felt it should be. Inspecting it, it was fairly straightforward, and was using the object to lookup in a hash a lot. sub stack { my $self = shift; if (@_) { if ($_[0] == 0) { $cached{$self} = 0; } else { $cached{$self} += shift; } $cached{$self} = 0 if $cached{$self} < 0; } return $cached{$self}; } (simplified, of course) But the point is, I was doing a lot of cache lookups using the stringified object as the key. And then it hit me - I was using the stringified object as the key. Why not cache it out? sub stack { my $self = shift; my $key = '' . $self; if (@_) { if ($_[0] == 0) { $cached{$key} = 0; } else { $cached{$key} += shift; } $cached{$key} = 0 if $cached{$key} < 0; } return $cached{$key}; } Voila. The object is only stringified once, and the key is then used for the lookup in the future. This little tidbit here yielded a 50% speed increase (though, admittedly we're talking about going from 3,000/sec ->4,600 sec), which I was quite pleased with. Uses? Minimal. You need a very frequently called function that does a lot of hash lookups based upon the stringified version of the object. If it doesn't do a lot of lookups or isn't called a hell of a lot, you probably wouldn't even be able to measure the difference. But for super speed critical stuff? Works like a charm. -Jim... From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Tue Oct 12 21:25:46 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Tue Oct 12 21:25:50 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You might look at Memoize - I've not used it, but read a few articles and it does just what you're doing there but you only need to do: # This is the documentation for Memoize 1.01 use Memoize; memoize('slow_function'); slow_function(arguments); # Is faster than it was before It includes ways to freeze/thaw the cache and various tweaks to chose cache types, etc. a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Oct 13 10:23:30 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Oct 13 10:23:56 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Uses? Minimal. You need a very frequently called function that does a > lot of hash lookups based upon the stringified version of the object. > If it doesn't do a lot of lookups or isn't called a hell of a lot, you > probably wouldn't even be able to measure the difference. > > But for super speed critical stuff? Works like a charm. Hash lookups are expensive themselves. You may be able to use a disjointed Schwartzian Transform to get an array of sorted [ key, value ] pairs then use something like: my $key = ''; my $val = ''; my @keyz = (); my @valuz = (); my @stuff = # skip the final map, leaving the sort key attached. sort { $a->[0] cmp $b->[0] } map { [ "$_", $_ ] } @itemz; for( @stuff ) { unless( $key eq $_->[0] ) { # save the values, if avoids pushing # extra value. if( $key ) { push @valuz, $val; push @keyz, $key; } $key = $_->[0]; $val = 0; } $val += $_->[1]; # whatever your calculation is... } # at this point you have @keyz and @valuz in order # now put them in a hash for easier access. my %result = (); @result{@keyz} = @valuz; One obvious speedup is doing away with the extraneous @stuff: for ( sort { $a->[0] cmp $b->[0] } map { [ "$_", $_ ] } @itemz ) { ... } Though, the whole thing does look a bit listish to begin with: my $key = ''; my $sum = ''; %totalz = map { if( $key eq $_->[0] ) { $sum += $_->[1][0]; # whatever... # empty list () } else { if( $key ) { my $a = $key; my $b = $sum; $key = $_->[0]; $sum = $_->[1][0]; # whatever # current key and total go onto the list ( $a, $b ) } } } sort{ $a->[0] cmp $b->[0] } map { [ "$_", $_ ] } @itemz; The point is that you can probably avoid hash lookups, and in some cases the sort will be faster than repeated hashed access. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 11:18:35 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Wed Oct 13 11:18:37 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> References: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d04101309182d42b08@mail.gmail.com> I'm tentative. It sounds like a fun time, but I'm not 100% sure I can be there. Chris On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:51:55 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > I'll be there again. > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:37:10 -0500 (CDT), > > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I'd like to suggest a time/place for the next eXtreme Piranha meetup. > > Saturday Oct. 23 at the same place as last time(Panera Bread in Evanston). > > Please RSVP on here so that I can try to get a count. :) Also I'm > > flexible as to what time everyone wants to actually get going. > > > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Chris From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 11:47:03 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Oct 13 11:47:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <3096c19d04101309182d42b08@mail.gmail.com> References: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d04101309182d42b08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef04101309475207aa54@mail.gmail.com> I can certainly vouch for it being a fun time. I didn't do much actual coding during the meeting (no commit privileges), but I learned a lot and got a lot done after the meeting. Two notes: Test your wireless card before coming! It's hard to get it working at the meeting. Try to get an auth.perl.org ID before coming, so you can commit during the meeting. Email svn@perl.org saying you're working on the Chicago Phalanx project and they should get you up and running in a day or two, after confirming you with Andy. On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:18:35 -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > I'm tentative. It sounds like a fun time, but I'm not 100% sure I can be there. > > Chris > > > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:51:55 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > I'll be there again. > > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:37:10 -0500 (CDT), > > > > > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I'd like to suggest a time/place for the next eXtreme Piranha meetup. > > > Saturday Oct. 23 at the same place as last time(Panera Bread in Evanston). > > > Please RSVP on here so that I can try to get a count. :) Also I'm > > > flexible as to what time everyone wants to actually get going. > > > > > > Jon > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- > Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From andy at petdance.com Wed Oct 13 11:54:45 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Oct 13 11:54:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04101309475207aa54@mail.gmail.com> References: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d04101309182d42b08@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04101309475207aa54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95C2B092-1D38-11D9-AEAE-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> > Email svn@perl.org saying you're working on the Chicago Phalanx > project and they should get you up and running in a day or two, after > confirming you with Andy. Yeah, cc me on that email so that I can say "Yes, I bless." -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Oct 13 12:37:26 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Wed Oct 13 12:37:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <95C2B092-1D38-11D9-AEAE-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> References: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d04101309182d42b08@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04101309475207aa54@mail.gmail.com> <95C2B092-1D38-11D9-AEAE-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> Message-ID: <52826.12.119.251.194.1097689046.squirrel@12.119.251.194> So now we're all just references to be 'blessed' as objects? Jon > >> Email svn@perl.org saying you're working on the Chicago Phalanx >> project and they should get you up and running in a day or two, after >> confirming you with Andy. > > Yeah, cc me on that email so that I can say "Yes, I bless." > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Oct 13 13:21:22 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Oct 13 13:21:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > $cached{$self} += shift; You might also save time using exists $cached{$item} instead of checking the value: saves you from actually having to retrieve any data from the hash. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Wed Oct 13 13:01:23 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Wed Oct 13 13:35:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <52826.12.119.251.194.1097689046.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: > So now we're all just references to be 'blessed' as objects? What do you mean 'just'? Leaving aside the arguable value of Andy's blessing, its still a step up from being plain old scalars ;-> a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" From thomasoniii at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 14:01:34 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Wed Oct 13 14:01:36 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization, take 2 Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704101312012ef6d9af@mail.gmail.com> It seems obvious that the point of my original email was lost. let's try this again. Last night I came up with a nifty little optimization that provides speed increases of up around 50% in specialized circumstances. In practice, I'm consistently seeing a 33% gain. Basically, it's useful for when you want to use an object as a key into a hashref. Since perl's hashes only use scalars as keys, objects are stringified before becoming a hashkey. So your key is the literal string 'foo=0x132a7' or whatever. I have a method that looked up a value in a hash based upon the object passed in. That object had values associated with it. And it was (relatively) slow. Then it hit me that perl was re-stringifying the object every time I used it as the hash key. Solution? I stringified it once at the start. my $objectkey = '' . $object; $hash->{$objectkey}; (replacing simply $hash->{$object}) It all works the same way, but only stringifies once. Massive speed improvements. Of course, take it with a grain of salt, since we're talking about going from 3,000/sec -> 4,600/sec. It really only seems useful for methods that are called frequently that each do lots of lookups using the object as a hashkey in this manner. But man, if you have a snippet of code like that, it can help. -Jim.... From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Oct 13 14:29:42 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Wed Oct 13 14:29:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <52826.12.119.251.194.1097689046.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <25835.12.119.251.194.1097695782.squirrel@12.119.251.194> A reference may be a step up in some cases... an object being a step up is arguable! ;) Which bring me to a question that has been bothering me lately... There was a thread recently on here about mapping objects to a relational database. I'm under the impression that there is some solid(?) math(set theory) underlying relational databases. I'm curious if there is any solid theory/math/proofs behind object oriented programming??? If anyone knows of one I'd love to be pointed to a link. Jon >> So now we're all just references to be 'blessed' as objects? > > What do you mean 'just'? Leaving aside the arguable value of Andy's > blessing, its still a step up from being plain old scalars ;-> > > a > > Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler > Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov > VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 > > Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and > if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" > -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From thomasoniii at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 15:08:06 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Wed Oct 13 15:08:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <25835.12.119.251.194.1097695782.squirrel@12.119.251.194> References: <52826.12.119.251.194.1097689046.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <25835.12.119.251.194.1097695782.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704101313087da1dec4@mail.gmail.com> > Which bring me to a question that has been bothering me lately... There > was a thread recently on here about mapping objects to a relational > database. I'm under the impression that there is some solid(?) math(set > theory) underlying relational databases. I'm curious if there is any > solid theory/math/proofs behind object oriented programming??? If anyone > knows of one I'd love to be pointed to a link. Not AFAIK. It's one of the problems mapping between the two. Object oriented design is based upon software engineering principles, relational databases are based upon mathematics principles. This is not to say that one is more or less valid than the other, less proven (though I wouldn't know how to prove a software principle...), or less tested, just that they originated in different places and hence their communication can be a bitch. For example, http://www.agiledata.org/essays/impedanceMismatch.html If you have time, I recommend running around agile data and reading the essays. Lots of good stuff on there. -Jim.... From komtanoo at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 21:24:34 2004 From: komtanoo at gmail.com (Komtanoo Pinpimai) Date: Wed Oct 13 21:24:36 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: References: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94e5774904101319247488e2c4@mail.gmail.com> I think I had seen someone mentioned that the memoization will be embeded in Perl6, called fly weight pattern. In the fly weight pattern when you call a function, the compiler record you function call and all the operators. When the function is invoked with the same parameters, the compiler will return the last calculation immediately. So you can solve fibinacci series or dynamic programming problems with a naive recusion. This is amazing, but make programmer more lazy. On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:21:22 -0400, Steven Lembark wrote: > > > $cached{$self} += shift; > > You might also save time using > > exists $cached{$item} > > instead of checking the value: saves you from actually having > to retrieve any data from the hash. > > > > > -- > Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street > Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 > lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From andy at petdance.com Wed Oct 13 21:34:40 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Oct 13 21:34:42 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <94e5774904101319247488e2c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> <94e5774904101319247488e2c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041014023439.GA15565@petdance.com> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 09:24:34PM -0500, Komtanoo Pinpimai (komtanoo@gmail.com) wrote: > This is amazing, but make programmer more lazy. And isn't that what it's all about? -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From gdf at speakeasy.net Thu Oct 14 07:34:41 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Thu Oct 14 07:34:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <94e5774904101319247488e2c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <94e5774904101319247488e2c4@mail.gmail.com> <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410141234.i9ECYgBo007116@www.pm.org> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:24:34 -0500, Komtanoo Pinpimai wrote: > I think I had seen someone mentioned that the memoization will be > embeded in Perl6, called fly weight pattern. > > In the fly weight pattern when you call a function, the compiler > record you function call and all the operators. Memoization is one way of implementing flyweight, when the memoized functions return cachable objects. The flyweight pattern is just this: when you have a significant number of indistinguishable things ("objects"), try to use references to a single shared thing. So for example, you can memoize the call to new() for some class, and then every time a user creates an instance of that object with the same params as one that's been created before, new() will return the first object it created. This can get you not only a speed win (you don't have to initialize a new object every time, like the other memoization examples in this thread), but also saves space... if used in the right situation. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu Oct 14 09:33:43 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Thu Oct 14 09:34:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <20041014023439.GA15565@petdance.com> References: <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> <94e5774904101319247488e2c4@mail.gmail.com> <20041014023439.GA15565@petdance.com> Message-ID: <61FBA159B8D39ED8B739DD8F@duke.wrkhors.com> >> This is amazing, but make programmer more lazy. > > And isn't that what it's all about? Up to the point where everything looks like a nail and we start pounding on things that need to be turned. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jt at plainblack.com Thu Oct 14 09:42:34 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Thu Oct 14 09:36:26 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <200410141234.i9ECYgBo007116@www.pm.org> Message-ID: Ok, everybody is talking this up, but there must be a down side. Is Memoize storing all of these cached objects in memory, or out to disk? Let's say I wanted to use it in a mod_perl app, on an class that has 2 million object instances that may be called. If this is persisted in memory, I can see that eating through memory very quickly. Can anybody speak to the do's and don'ts of this thing? On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:34:41 -0500 Greg Fast wrote: >On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:24:34 -0500, Komtanoo Pinpimai wrote: >> I think I had seen someone mentioned that the memoization will be >> embeded in Perl6, called fly weight pattern. >> >> In the fly weight pattern when you call a function, the compiler >> record you function call and all the operators. > >Memoization is one way of implementing flyweight, when the memoized >functions return cachable objects. > >The flyweight pattern is just this: when you have a significant number >of indistinguishable things ("objects"), try to use references to a >single shared thing. > >So for example, you can memoize the call to new() for some class, and >then every time a user creates an instance of that object with the >same params as one that's been created before, new() will return the >first object it created. > >This can get you not only a speed win (you don't have to initialize a >new object every time, like the other memoization examples in this >thread), but also saves space... if used in the right situation. > >-- >Greg Fast >http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu Oct 14 09:36:37 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Thu Oct 14 09:37:01 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: <200410141234.i9ECYgBo007116@www.pm.org> References: <94e5774904101319247488e2c4@mail.gmail.com> <5cfdfaf704101219072a998121@mail.gmail.com> <200410141234.i9ECYgBo007116@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <5B60D3EF1EEC7147C9DF99FC@duke.wrkhors.com> > So for example, you can memoize the call to new() for some class, and > then every time a user creates an instance of that object with the > same params as one that's been created before, new() will return the > first object it created. Which works up to the point where the object is used to buffer data specific to the invocation and ends up overwriting its internals. This also tends to get ugly under threading since you have to synchronize the cache hits. For fairly simple data it works nicely, but nested data struct's in threaded or forked environments can easily step on memoized/ flyweight initialization. It isn't a bad thing, just one more tool that has to be used carefully. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu Oct 14 11:01:19 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Thu Oct 14 11:01:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] neat little optimization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39A0BBC63B261A7505900B2F@duke.wrkhors.com> -- JT Smith > Ok, everybody is talking this up, but there must be a down side. Is > Memoize storing all of these cached objects in memory, or out to disk? > Let's say I wanted to use it in a mod_perl app, on an class that has 2 > million object instances that may be called. If this is persisted in > memory, I can see that eating through memory very quickly. > > Can anybody speak to the do's and don'ts of this thing? memoize bascially looks like: $cache{@argz} = &$stored_sub( @argz ) unless exists $cache{@argz}; $cache{@argz} The process works by storing a ref to the existing sub then replacing it in the symbol table with a closure that checks a cache (hash) and calls the sub if it can't find the args in its cache. This is useful when the time for stringify+hash lookup is noticably less than the subroutine call (think join-from-hell in a database, networked lookup of static data via URI). It has all of the downsides of caching -- mainly that you may be taking time to store values that are never re-used. There is also the classic memory vs. speed issue: by taking up memory to store the results you may get better speed. Then again, you may not. Main downside is memory (often less of an issue these days). You also have issues with how to memoize data strucutres that are heavily nested or that must return different values even for the same input values (e.g., the same query might not return identical values every time it is called). As more people use OO with nested data structures, memoizing gets harder and harder. Main catch there is that a generic caching function has no good way of knowing which part of the nestted data structure is relevant to the call being wrapped. At that point you can waste huge amounts of memory separately caching identical values whose arguments involved modification of a data structure that didn't affect the return value. As an example, say you have a hash object with "foo" and "bar" keys. One of your calls depends only on the value of $obj->{foo} but the value of $obj->{bar} changes between memoize calls. Net result is that you end up with identical return values cached againsed varous values of {bar}. If bar were, say, the unix time of the request start then you could end up caching a large number of unusable values. Memoizing also gets hairy when the number of arguments gets large or is difficulty to stringify into a hash key. At that point the overhead of memoizing all of the arguments all of the time may outweigh the performance savings of not calling the "expeisive" function. So, you'd want to use it where the called function uses a few, simply-structured arguments, is called frequently with the same arguments, must return the same value for its arguments, and cannot [easily] be modified to cache its own results. Querys of static data are a good example of were this works well: database calls are expensive and you will call $sth->( @blah ) with simple enough arguments that they can be easily strigified into a hash key for less overhead than the datbase call. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jt at plainblack.com Thu Oct 14 18:21:59 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Thu Oct 14 18:15:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] meeting space Message-ID: I've got some good news and some bad news. The good news is that we have a meeting space for next month. The bad news is that the only day I could get it was Nov 17th. The rooms are all booked the first week due to the election, and the second week due to a book drive. So we officially have Wednesday, November 17th as our next meeting date at the Grayslake public library. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From lembark at cognia.com Thu Oct 14 21:37:53 2004 From: lembark at cognia.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Thu Oct 14 21:38:19 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Meeting places... Message-ID: If it's any consolation the NY Perl mongers met last month on a rooftop -- with some decent beer, it should be said. -- Steven Lembark 117 E. 55th Cognia NY, NY 10022 212 331 7844 From andy at petdance.com Fri Oct 15 10:58:57 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri Oct 15 10:58:58 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] meeting space In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041015155857.GA22482@petdance.com> On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 06:21:59PM -0500, JT Smith (jt@plainblack.com) wrote: > The bad news is that the only day I could get it was Nov 17th. The rooms > are all booked the first week due to the election, and the second week due > to a book drive. So we officially have Wednesday, November 17th as our next > meeting date at the Grayslake public library. Thanks for the legwork. So who's going to be speaking? -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jt at plainblack.com Fri Oct 15 11:14:19 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Fri Oct 15 11:07:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] meeting space In-Reply-To: <20041015155857.GA22482@petdance.com> Message-ID: Apparently I'm going to be giving a talk on HTML::Template. I'll probably also give a short pro/con talk about H:T vs TT vs Mason. On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:58:57 -0500 Andy Lester wrote: >On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 06:21:59PM -0500, JT Smith (jt@plainblack.com) wrote: >> The bad news is that the only day I could get it was Nov 17th. The rooms >> are all booked the first week due to the election, and the second week due >> to a book drive. So we officially have Wednesday, November 17th as our next >> meeting date at the Grayslake public library. > >Thanks for the legwork. > >So who's going to be speaking? > >-- >Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From andy at petdance.com Fri Oct 15 11:11:35 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri Oct 15 11:11:35 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] meeting space In-Reply-To: References: <20041015155857.GA22482@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20041015161135.GB22628@petdance.com> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 11:14:19AM -0500, JT Smith (jt@plainblack.com) wrote: > Apparently I'm going to be giving a talk on HTML::Template. I'll probably > also give a short pro/con talk about H:T vs TT vs Mason. Can you please give me a short paragraph that I can put into chicago-announce and on the site? -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jt at plainblack.com Fri Oct 15 11:28:01 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Fri Oct 15 11:21:37 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] meeting space In-Reply-To: <20041015161135.GB22628@petdance.com> Message-ID: >Can you please give me a short paragraph that I can put into >chicago-announce and on the site? JT Smith is the lead developer of the WebGUI content framework, which makes use of the HTML::Template templating system. He will be giving a presentation on how to use HTML::Template and some of it's add-on components. JT will close the presentation with a short compare and contrast of HTML::Template, Template Toolkit, and Mason, which were all systems that he evaluated before deciding to go with HTML::Template in WebGUI. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From me at heyjay.com Sat Oct 16 09:15:33 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sat Oct 16 09:10:32 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions Message-ID: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> Hi, I want to install 5.8.5 on my system. - How do I extract the compile options from my system version, to use when I build from source? I don't know if perl -V tells me everything - How do I make it so that after this install, then when I have to install the next version, I don't have to reinstall every module from CPAN? Since the perl path is, after installing 5.8.5 is: > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/i686-linux > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5 > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i686-linux > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5 > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl ie everything has 5.8.5 in the path, when I install 5.8.x it will not find all the packages I've download from CPAN Thanks Jay From shild at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 16 10:38:38 2004 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Sat Oct 16 10:31:39 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> The auto-config is pretty good now. I like to put a new version of Perl in a dir, '/usr/local/perl-5.8.5', then I have a script which configs CPAN and installs all the modules that I need/want. I run some tests, if the new Perl install is working okay, I have a symlink /usr/local/perl which points to the version I want to use. If something is wrong I can always point /usr/local/perl back to the older install. This works really well, for me at least, at work. I can have the other developers test production code in without affecting production. As far as compiling, I let Perl config, sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/usr/local/perl-5.8.x ..not that you care how I install Perl, just thought I would share. :-) On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 09:15, Jay Strauss wrote: > Hi, > > I want to install 5.8.5 on my system. > > - How do I extract the compile options from my system version, to use > when I build from source? I don't know if perl -V tells me everything > > - How do I make it so that after this install, then when I have to > install the next version, I don't have to reinstall every module from > CPAN? Since the perl path is, after installing 5.8.5 is: > > > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/i686-linux > > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5 > > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i686-linux > > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5 > > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl > I'm pretty sure that perl will include other 5.* in the /usr/local/lib/perl5/site/ dir. > ie everything has 5.8.5 in the path, when I install 5.8.x it will not > find all the packages I've download from CPAN > > Thanks > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From me at heyjay.com Sat Oct 16 15:31:24 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sat Oct 16 15:26:25 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4171851C.9080603@heyjay.com> Scott, So then you stick /usr/local/perl/bin in your PATH? Jay Scott T. Hildreth wrote: > The auto-config is pretty good now. I like to put a new version > of Perl in a dir, '/usr/local/perl-5.8.5', then I have a script > which configs CPAN and installs all the modules that I need/want. > I run some tests, if the new Perl install is working okay, I have > a symlink /usr/local/perl which points to the version I want to use. > If something is wrong I can always point /usr/local/perl back to the > older install. This works really well, for me at least, at work. I > can have the other developers test production code in without affecting > production. As far as compiling, I let Perl config, > > sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/usr/local/perl-5.8.x > > ..not that you care how I install Perl, just thought I would share. :-) > > On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 09:15, Jay Strauss wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>I want to install 5.8.5 on my system. >> >>- How do I extract the compile options from my system version, to use >>when I build from source? I don't know if perl -V tells me everything >> >>- How do I make it so that after this install, then when I have to >>install the next version, I don't have to reinstall every module from >>CPAN? Since the perl path is, after installing 5.8.5 is: >> >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/i686-linux >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5 >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i686-linux >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5 >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl >> > > > I'm pretty sure that perl will include other 5.* in the > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site/ dir. > > >>ie everything has 5.8.5 in the path, when I install 5.8.x it will not >>find all the packages I've download from CPAN >> >>Thanks >>Jay >>_______________________________________________ >>Chicago-talk mailing list >>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > From shild at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 16 22:23:57 2004 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Sat Oct 16 22:16:51 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: <4171851C.9080603@heyjay.com> References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> <4171851C.9080603@heyjay.com> Message-ID: <1097983437.410.301.camel@localhost> Yes, and I have /usr/local/bin/perl point to /usr/local/perl/bin/perl as well, since I've had everyone put '#!/usr/local/bin/perl' in their code (prior to the new schema). We leave /usr/bin/perl as is, since this is the vendor perl. On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 15:31, Jay Strauss wrote: > Scott, > > So then you stick /usr/local/perl/bin in your PATH? > > Jay > Scott T. Hildreth wrote: > > The auto-config is pretty good now. I like to put a new version > > of Perl in a dir, '/usr/local/perl-5.8.5', then I have a script > > which configs CPAN and installs all the modules that I need/want. > > I run some tests, if the new Perl install is working okay, I have > > a symlink /usr/local/perl which points to the version I want to use. > > If something is wrong I can always point /usr/local/perl back to the > > older install. This works really well, for me at least, at work. I > > can have the other developers test production code in without affecting > > production. As far as compiling, I let Perl config, > > > > sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/usr/local/perl-5.8.x > > > > ..not that you care how I install Perl, just thought I would share. :-) > > > > On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 09:15, Jay Strauss wrote: > > > >>Hi, > >> > >>I want to install 5.8.5 on my system. > >> > >>- How do I extract the compile options from my system version, to use > >>when I build from source? I don't know if perl -V tells me everything > >> > >>- How do I make it so that after this install, then when I have to > >>install the next version, I don't have to reinstall every module from > >>CPAN? Since the perl path is, after installing 5.8.5 is: > >> > >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5/i686-linux > >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.5 > >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i686-linux > >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5 > >> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl > >> > > > > > > I'm pretty sure that perl will include other 5.* in the > > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site/ dir. > > > > > >>ie everything has 5.8.5 in the path, when I install 5.8.x it will not > >>find all the packages I've download from CPAN > >> > >>Thanks > >>Jay > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Chicago-talk mailing list > >>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From lembark at wrkhors.com Sat Oct 16 23:14:41 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Sat Oct 16 23:15:21 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> Message-ID: -- "Scott T. Hildreth" > The auto-config is pretty good now. I like to put a new version > of Perl in a dir, '/usr/local/perl-5.8.5', then I have a script > which configs CPAN and installs all the modules that I need/want. > I run some tests, if the new Perl install is working okay, I have > a symlink /usr/local/perl which points to the version I want to use. > If something is wrong I can always point /usr/local/perl back to the > older install. This works really well, for me at least, at work. I > can have the other developers test production code in without affecting > production. As far as compiling, I let Perl config, > > sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/usr/local/perl-5.8.x > > ..not that you care how I install Perl, just thought I would share. :-) The autoinstall does a really nice job of getting a working perl for your system. One trick that might make it easier to upgrade is using subdirectories for the perl versions: ./Configure -cd -Dprefix=/opt/perl/5.8.X With two symlinks this makes it easier to try out new versions without overwriting older ones: cd /opt/perl; ln -fs 5.8.X/* .; and cd /opt; mkdir bin; cd bin; ln -fs ../perl/bin/* .; You can do the same for any other package (my /opt/bin has 15+ packages from gcc through perl to gaim symlinked into it). Nice thing about this is that you don't have to modify your path to upgrade perl: just install the new version in, say, 5.8.Y, test it, and when it seems friendly you can: cd /opt/perl; rm *; ln -fs 5.8.Y/* .; and you'll be off to the races. If you consistently use: #!/opt/bin/perl for your executables then you can upgrade perl versions without having to modify any of your #! code on the system. You can also find out that the currenet version has a bug and downgrade the release with a single symlink. There are two ways to handle /opt/perl/blah/lib in this case: 1. Duplicate the applied modules via autobundle. 2. Symlink the perl lib directory from 5.8.X to 5.8.Y on the way in. I normally use #1 since it makes downgrading -- or keeping threading vs. optmized vs. statically-linked versions simpler. enjoi -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From komtanoo at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 04:29:46 2004 From: komtanoo at gmail.com (Komtanoo Pinpimai) Date: Sun Oct 17 04:29:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <94e57749041017022942edc347@mail.gmail.com> >- How do I make it so that after this install, then when I have to >install the next version, I don't have to reinstall every module from >CPAN? Since the perl path is, after installing 5.8.5 is: try, autobundle .. http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/1999-12/features/cpanic.html On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:14:41 -0400, Steven Lembark wrote: > > > -- "Scott T. Hildreth" > > > The auto-config is pretty good now. I like to put a new version > > of Perl in a dir, '/usr/local/perl-5.8.5', then I have a script > > which configs CPAN and installs all the modules that I need/want. > > I run some tests, if the new Perl install is working okay, I have > > a symlink /usr/local/perl which points to the version I want to use. > > If something is wrong I can always point /usr/local/perl back to the > > older install. This works really well, for me at least, at work. I > > can have the other developers test production code in without affecting > > production. As far as compiling, I let Perl config, > > > > sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/usr/local/perl-5.8.x > > > > ..not that you care how I install Perl, just thought I would share. :-) > > The autoinstall does a really nice job of getting a > working perl for your system. One trick that might > make it easier to upgrade is using subdirectories > for the perl versions: > > ./Configure -cd -Dprefix=/opt/perl/5.8.X > > With two symlinks this makes it easier to try out > new versions without overwriting older ones: > > cd /opt/perl; > ln -fs 5.8.X/* .; > > and > > cd /opt; > mkdir bin; > cd bin; > ln -fs ../perl/bin/* .; > > You can do the same for any other package (my /opt/bin > has 15+ packages from gcc through perl to gaim symlinked > into it). Nice thing about this is that you don't have > to modify your path to upgrade perl: just install the > new version in, say, 5.8.Y, test it, and when it seems > friendly you can: > > cd /opt/perl; > rm *; > ln -fs 5.8.Y/* .; > > and you'll be off to the races. > > If you consistently use: > > #!/opt/bin/perl > > for your executables then you can upgrade perl versions > without having to modify any of your #! code on the system. > You can also find out that the currenet version has a bug > and downgrade the release with a single symlink. > > There are two ways to handle /opt/perl/blah/lib in this case: > > 1. Duplicate the applied modules via autobundle. > 2. Symlink the perl lib directory from 5.8.X to 5.8.Y > on the way in. > > I normally use #1 since it makes downgrading -- or keeping > threading vs. optmized vs. statically-linked versions > simpler. > > enjoi > > -- > Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street > Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 > lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From me at heyjay.com Sun Oct 17 10:48:08 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sun Oct 17 10:43:10 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: <94e57749041017022942edc347@mail.gmail.com> References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> <94e57749041017022942edc347@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41729438.60908@heyjay.com> Komtanoo Pinpimai wrote: >>- How do I make it so that after this install, then when I have to >>install the next version, I don't have to reinstall every module from >>CPAN? Since the perl path is, after installing 5.8.5 is: > > > try, autobundle .. > > http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/1999-12/features/cpanic.html > Thanks Komtanoo, the article was a pretty good summary of CPAN, though I was hoping to not have to reinstall all my Modules when I upgrade Jay From me at heyjay.com Sun Oct 17 10:56:02 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sun Oct 17 10:51:01 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <41729612.70900@heyjay.com> I think that is basically what I did. Here's what I did: sh Configure -des -Dusethreads -Duselargefiles -Dprefix=/usr/local/perl5.8.5 make && make test && make install cd /usr/local ln -s /usr/local/perl /usr/local/perl5.8.5 cd /usr/local/bin ln -s /usr/local/perl/bin/* . Thanks Jay > > > -- "Scott T. Hildreth" > >> The auto-config is pretty good now. I like to put a new version >> of Perl in a dir, '/usr/local/perl-5.8.5', then I have a script >> which configs CPAN and installs all the modules that I need/want. >> I run some tests, if the new Perl install is working okay, I have >> a symlink /usr/local/perl which points to the version I want to use. >> If something is wrong I can always point /usr/local/perl back to the >> older install. This works really well, for me at least, at work. I >> can have the other developers test production code in without affecting >> production. As far as compiling, I let Perl config, >> >> sh Configure -de -Dprefix=/usr/local/perl-5.8.x >> >> ..not that you care how I install Perl, just thought I would share. :-) > > > The autoinstall does a really nice job of getting a > working perl for your system. One trick that might > make it easier to upgrade is using subdirectories > for the perl versions: > > ./Configure -cd -Dprefix=/opt/perl/5.8.X > > With two symlinks this makes it easier to try out > new versions without overwriting older ones: > > cd /opt/perl; > ln -fs 5.8.X/* .; > > and > > cd /opt; > mkdir bin; > cd bin; > ln -fs ../perl/bin/* .; > > You can do the same for any other package (my /opt/bin > has 15+ packages from gcc through perl to gaim symlinked > into it). Nice thing about this is that you don't have > to modify your path to upgrade perl: just install the > new version in, say, 5.8.Y, test it, and when it seems > friendly you can: > > cd /opt/perl; > rm *; > ln -fs 5.8.Y/* .; > > and you'll be off to the races. > > If you consistently use: > > #!/opt/bin/perl > > for your executables then you can upgrade perl versions > without having to modify any of your #! code on the system. > You can also find out that the currenet version has a bug > and downgrade the release with a single symlink. > > There are two ways to handle /opt/perl/blah/lib in this case: > > 1. Duplicate the applied modules via autobundle. > 2. Symlink the perl lib directory from 5.8.X to 5.8.Y > on the way in. > > I normally use #1 since it makes downgrading -- or keeping > threading vs. optmized vs. statically-linked versions > simpler. > > enjoi > From lembark at wrkhors.com Sun Oct 17 13:13:01 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Sun Oct 17 13:13:33 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting compile options from old perl install & other admin questions In-Reply-To: <41729438.60908@heyjay.com> References: <41712D05.2000709@heyjay.com> <1097941118.410.296.camel@localhost> <94e57749041017022942edc347@mail.gmail.com> <41729438.60908@heyjay.com> Message-ID: -- Jay Strauss > Komtanoo Pinpimai wrote: >>> - How do I make it so that after this install, then when I have to >>> install the next version, I don't have to reinstall every module from >>> CPAN? Since the perl path is, after installing 5.8.5 is: >> >> >> try, autobundle .. >> >> http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/1999-12/features/cpanic.html >> You don't have to if you copy the exiting ones: version-specific lib's will be in ./lib/$ ls /opt/perl5/lib, e.g. $ ls /opt/perl5/lib; 5.8.4 5.8.5 site_perl Easiest way to do this and not have the perl exec's overwrite one another is to cpio your old lib directory into the new one then run the install (or just install 5.8.5 over 5.8.4). You may run across a few lib's that need rebuilding but those can be handled one at a time later on. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From esinclai at pobox.com Wed Oct 20 06:59:00 2004 From: esinclai at pobox.com (Eric Sinclair) Date: Wed Oct 20 06:59:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next month's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6DCDF140-228F-11D9-840A-000A956859A6@pobox.com> This isn't ASAP.... But I'm still chasing my contact at the Apple Store for information. Based on feedback from Chris McAvoy, both Chi.PM and ChiPy are running into the same silent treatment, so anyone who has been holding their breath... Shouldn't. -Eric On Oct 8, 2004, at 4:43 PM, Mike Fragassi wrote: > > It was decided at the meeting that if we don't have a good alternative > location lined up by next Wednesday, we'll reconvene at the Grayslake > library. I assume that we'll go back to Tuesdays, unless it was moved > because some people can't ever do Wednesdays. If that's the case, > please > speak up. -- esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Oct 20 13:00:45 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Oct 20 13:01:10 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PAUSE indexer report LEMBARK/FindBin-libs-1.04.tar.gz (fwd) Message-ID: <798750DD9F5B36F8DA8A7900@duke.wrkhors.com> Largely doc updates. POD includes a decent writeup of using this with sandboxes. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: PAUSE Subject: PAUSE indexer report LEMBARK/FindBin-libs-1.04.tar.gz > The following report has been written by the PAUSE namespace indexer. > Please contact modules@perl.org if there are any open questions. > Id > > User: LEMBARK (Steven Lembark) > Distribution file: FindBin-libs-1.04.tar.gz > Number of files: 7 > *.pm files: 1 > README: FindBin-libs-1.04/README > META.yml: FindBin-libs-1.04/META.yml > Timestamp of file: Wed Oct 20 16:08:03 2004 UTC > Time of this run: Wed Oct 20 16:59:41 2004 UTC > > The following packages (grouped by status) have been found in the distro: > > Status: Successfully indexed > ============================ > > module: FindBin::libs > version: 1.00 > in file: FindBin-libs-1.04/lib/FindBin/libs.pm > status: indexed > > module: caller > version: 1.00 > in file: FindBin-libs-1.04/lib/FindBin/libs.pm > status: indexed > > __END__ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 11:59:32 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri Oct 22 11:59:35 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next month's meeting In-Reply-To: <6DCDF140-228F-11D9-840A-000A956859A6@pobox.com> References: <6DCDF140-228F-11D9-840A-000A956859A6@pobox.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d041022095913a8db15@mail.gmail.com> Yes, although I haven't followed up since the first phone call. I'm not sure if this is worth pursuing or not. On the one hand, they're Apple, and you want to believe they have some kind of altruistic need to be nice to open source people, whom they rely on to virally market Apple hardware. On the other hand, it's a Michigan Avenue boutique shop, staffed by the sort of people that want to work in a Michigan Avenue boutique shop. So, in short, do you want to take this further? I can help out, I'm just sort of dissapointed thus far. Which is actually pretty weak, considering I've made a single phone call, and already written them off. Who's really dissapointing here? Apple, or Chris McAvoy. I think we all know the answer. Chris On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:59:00 -0500, Eric Sinclair wrote: > This isn't ASAP.... But I'm still chasing my contact at the Apple > Store for information. Based on feedback from Chris McAvoy, both > Chi.PM and ChiPy are running into the same silent treatment, so anyone > who has been holding their breath... Shouldn't. > > -Eric > > On Oct 8, 2004, at 4:43 PM, Mike Fragassi wrote: > > > > > It was decided at the meeting that if we don't have a good alternative > > location lined up by next Wednesday, we'll reconvene at the Grayslake > > library. I assume that we'll go back to Tuesdays, unless it was moved > > because some people can't ever do Wednesdays. If that's the case, > > please > > speak up. > > -- > esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai > http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Fri Oct 22 13:35:19 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Fri Oct 22 13:35:23 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04101309475207aa54@mail.gmail.com> References: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d04101309182d42b08@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04101309475207aa54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041022183519.GP9211@utility> Hi Everyone! Just a reminder about the eXtreme Piranha meetup tomorrow at Panera Bread in Evanston. I should be arriving there between 11 and 11:30am. So far we tentatively have 3 people??? I'm hoping to push the coverage for HTML::TreeBuilder up quite a bit by making a run at the tests for Element.pm. I expect to easily get over %50(we're at 49.8 right now) and hopefully around %60-70. See you there! -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/chicago-talk/attachments/20041022/8ee20ca0/attachment.bin From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 15:48:39 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri Oct 22 15:48:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next 'eXtreme Piranha' Meeting In-Reply-To: <20041022183519.GP9211@utility> References: <32414.12.119.251.194.1097584630.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04101210511c4b621e@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d04101309182d42b08@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04101309475207aa54@mail.gmail.com> <20041022183519.GP9211@utility> Message-ID: <3096c19d041022134852e3a9fe@mail.gmail.com> I won't be able to be there, I'm covering our on-call pager for the day. Sorry for the short cancellation. Chris On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:35:19 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > Hi Everyone! > > Just a reminder about the eXtreme Piranha meetup tomorrow at Panera Bread in Evanston. I should be arriving there between 11 and 11:30am. So far we tentatively have 3 people??? > > I'm hoping to push the coverage for HTML::TreeBuilder up quite a bit by making a run at the tests for Element.pm. I expect to easily get over %50(we're at 49.8 right now) and hopefully around %60-70. > > See you there! > > -- > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Sat Oct 23 12:09:29 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Sat Oct 23 12:09:33 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20041010214218.031701a0@mailstore.pobox.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> <6.1.2.0.1.20041010214218.031701a0@mailstore.pobox.com> Message-ID: <20041023170928.GS9211@utility> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 09:45:54PM -0800, Sean M. Burke wrote: > At 04:29 AM 2004-09-20, Shawn Carroll wrote: > >[...] We think we may have found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested > >comments. > > OK, Gisle and I are merrily unanimous on this point: > > >To: "Sean M. Burke" > >Subject: Re: Nested comments in HTML > >From: Gisle Aas > >Date: 10 Oct 2004 22:30:29 -0700 > > > >"Sean M. Burke" writes: > >>[...]I'm tempted to say "that because there's /no such thing/ as nested > >>comments in HTML". > >> > >>What do you think? > > > >I think exactly the same. I even know that there's no such thing :) > > > -- > Sean M. Burke http://search.cpan.org/~sburke/ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk Sounds like an executive decision to me. I'm removing the reference to those things that don't exist from the .t files and the test html file. Even though they don't exist, should they be mentioned in the doc somewhere as not supported? -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/chicago-talk/attachments/20041023/7fe5bd4c/attachment.bin From petemar1 at perlmonk.org Sun Oct 24 01:12:39 2004 From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1) Date: Sun Oct 24 01:12:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] [CSPP Note] Jimmy Wales - creator of Wikipedia TALK this SUNDAY! (fwd) Message-ID: http://petemar1.perlmonk.org http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=26274 http://chicago.pm.org/members.html http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~petemar1 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:41:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Marc Peters Subject: [CSPP Note] Jimmy Wales - creator of Wikipedia TALK this SUNDAY! (fwd) Marc M. Peters http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~petemar1/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:38:15 -0500 Subject: [CSPP Note] Jimmy Wales - creator of Wikipedia TALK this SUNDAY! FYI Begin forwarded message: > Date: October 21, 2004 4:32:58 PM CDT > Very exciting news everyone! > > Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales is coming on Sunday to give a small public talk. > Our ACM chapter is hosting the event and it should completly rock with > wikipedia craziness. It's a great honor to have him come and I think > everyone will either have a good time and\or learn something from what > the man has to say. Mr. Wales i'm quite positive will focus on > Wikipedia and\or GNU/Linux movement. The talk will attract wiki people > from around chicago area and is supposed to be a 'wikipedia meetup'. > EVERYONE is welcomed to attend and should do so. No reservations > necessary :) but it would be very convenient if you could Re: and let > me know that you are planning to attend. > > > > TIME: 12PM, SUNDAY (this sunday!) October 24th. > LOCATION: Ryerson 251 1100 E 58 St. Chicago, IL 60637 > > > > If you don't know who Mr. Wales is or what wikipedia is, make sure to > visit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page > > > Hope to see you all there. > > > > > ivan. > From komtanoo at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 07:54:58 2004 From: komtanoo at gmail.com (Komtanoo Pinpimai) Date: Thu Oct 28 07:55:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PDF concatenation Message-ID: <94e5774904102805543d5987b2@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have hundreds of PDF files, each one consists of only one page. Does anyone know which module is capable of concating these PDF pages into a single PDF file. I did reseach in the CPAN, but it has more than 50 PDF modules, and I don't know which is the right one. -thanks romerun From jason at multiply.org Thu Oct 28 08:58:17 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Thu Oct 28 08:58:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PDF concatenation In-Reply-To: <94e5774904102805543d5987b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <94e5774904102805543d5987b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098971897.4180faf9c4e5c@manage.multiply.org> Quoting Komtanoo Pinpimai : > I have hundreds of PDF files, each one consists of only one page. > Does anyone know which module is capable of concating these PDF pages > into a single PDF file. I did reseach in the CPAN, but it has more > than 50 PDF modules, and I don't know which is the right one. joinPDF is a nice and easy command line tool to use to do this. You run it like this: joinPDF file1.pdf file2.pdf ... fileN.pdf http://www.iis.ee.ic.ac.uk/~g.briscoe/joinPDF/ also, for perl PDF modules, use PDF::API2. it is great. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jason at multiply.org Thu Oct 28 09:24:10 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Thu Oct 28 14:23:49 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Computing Events In-Reply-To: <94e5774904102805543d5987b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <94e5774904102805543d5987b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098973450.28105.3.camel@localhost> Hi All. Ed Summers [1] and I have started "Chicago Computing Events." [2] ChiComp is a list of different user group and academic activities around the chicago area, not limited by language or focus (save for computers and tech). The site runs on a ruby-based wiki [3] and is open to all. If you are on other lists, please pass this along and encourage the members of other local user groups to contribute. The format and software for the site may change over time. Who knows. For now, though, let's start making a list of cool stuff for tech-heads in the area. Thanks! -jason scott gessner [4] jason@multiply.org [1] - Ed Summers http://www.inkdroid.org [2] - Chicago Computing Events http://chicomp.multiply.org/ [3] - Instiki - http://www.instiki.org/ [4] - Jason Gessner - http://www.multiply.org/ From thomasoniii at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 15:46:10 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Thu Oct 28 15:46:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7041028134652a242bf@mail.gmail.com> Anybody know of any good algorithms to do ascii-only compression? That is, I'm going to spit in ascii data, and I want to read out ascii data. More specifically, I have 14 chunks of 6 numbers. And I want to compress it all into a single string that contains only upper case letters and numbers that can be later decompressed and broken back into those 14 chunks. Currently, I'm base-36 encoding the chunks. It seems to save me 33% of the space, 6 digits -> 4 digits. Further, ideally, I'd like to avoid using an external lookup table. If I'm going to have an external table, I'd just dump my entire value into it and then read it out as a single integer ID lookup value. :-) I may end up just falling back on this, though. Any suggestions? -Jim..... From don at drakeconsult.com Thu Oct 28 16:19:38 2004 From: don at drakeconsult.com (Don Drake) Date: Thu Oct 28 16:20:03 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf7041028134652a242bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410282120.i9SLK2WL001023@www.pm.org> Why ASCII only? Why not use your favorite compression and then pass it to Uuencode? http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/Compress-LZF-1.0b/LZF.pm and http://search.cpan.org/dist/Convert-UU/lib/Convert/UU.pm Do the opposite when you want the data back. -Don -----Original Message----- From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Jim Thomason Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 3:46 PM To: Chicago.pm chatter Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? Anybody know of any good algorithms to do ascii-only compression? That is, I'm going to spit in ascii data, and I want to read out ascii data. More specifically, I have 14 chunks of 6 numbers. And I want to compress it all into a single string that contains only upper case letters and numbers that can be later decompressed and broken back into those 14 chunks. Currently, I'm base-36 encoding the chunks. It seems to save me 33% of the space, 6 digits -> 4 digits. Further, ideally, I'd like to avoid using an external lookup table. If I'm going to have an external table, I'd just dump my entire value into it and then read it out as a single integer ID lookup value. :-) I may end up just falling back on this, though. Any suggestions? -Jim..... _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From thomasoniii at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 16:41:50 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Thu Oct 28 16:41:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? In-Reply-To: <200410282120.i9SLK2WL001023@www.pm.org> References: <5cfdfaf7041028134652a242bf@mail.gmail.com> <200410282120.i9SLK2WL001023@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70410281441582c20ac@mail.gmail.com> Because my output is being fed into a single 3of9 barcode, which is alphanumeric only. Upper case letters, numbers, and spaces. All I got. If my resulting compressed output contains anything different, it's worthless. Presumably I could then encode that output into alphanumeric, but that's very likely to end up increasing the string size. So I'd need a very tight compression algorithm with a very tight ascii converter. Not saying that it doesn't exist, it just sounds like a longshot vs. something that just compresses into alphanumeric. -Jim.... On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:19:38 -0500, Don Drake wrote: > Why ASCII only? Why not use your favorite compression and then pass it to > Uuencode? > > http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/Compress-LZF-1.0b/LZF.pm > > and > > http://search.cpan.org/dist/Convert-UU/lib/Convert/UU.pm > > Do the opposite when you want the data back. > > -Don > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Jim Thomason > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 3:46 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? > > Anybody know of any good algorithms to do ascii-only compression? > > That is, I'm going to spit in ascii data, and I want to read out ascii data. > > More specifically, I have 14 chunks of 6 numbers. And I want to > compress it all into a single string that contains only upper case > letters and numbers that can be later decompressed and broken back > into those 14 chunks. > > Currently, I'm base-36 encoding the chunks. It seems to save me 33% of > the space, 6 digits -> 4 digits. > > Further, ideally, I'd like to avoid using an external lookup table. If > I'm going to have an external table, I'd just dump my entire value > into it and then read it out as a single integer ID lookup value. :-) > I may end up just falling back on this, though. > > Any suggestions? > > -Jim..... > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From thomasoniii at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 16:43:55 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Thu Oct 28 16:44:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf70410281441582c20ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf7041028134652a242bf@mail.gmail.com> <200410282120.i9SLK2WL001023@www.pm.org> <5cfdfaf70410281441582c20ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704102814431f5d8257@mail.gmail.com> Oh, another monkey wrench I can throw into the works - it is unlikely that there will be much repeated data. 2 number sequences are reasonable, 3 number sequences are possible. Beyond that is very unlikely to see duplicates. The more that I think about it,t he more that I think my approach of converting to base36 is the best. -Jim.... On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:41:50 -0500, Jim Thomason wrote: > Because my output is being fed into a single 3of9 barcode, which is > alphanumeric only. Upper case letters, numbers, and spaces. All I got. > > If my resulting compressed output contains anything different, it's worthless. > > Presumably I could then encode that output into alphanumeric, but > that's very likely to end up increasing the string size. So I'd need a > very tight compression algorithm with a very tight ascii converter. > Not saying that it doesn't exist, it just sounds like a longshot vs. > something that just compresses into alphanumeric. > > -Jim.... > > > > > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:19:38 -0500, Don Drake wrote: > > Why ASCII only? Why not use your favorite compression and then pass it to > > Uuencode? > > > > http://search.cpan.org/~mlehmann/Compress-LZF-1.0b/LZF.pm > > > > and > > > > http://search.cpan.org/dist/Convert-UU/lib/Convert/UU.pm > > > > Do the opposite when you want the data back. > > > > -Don > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Jim Thomason > > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 3:46 PM > > To: Chicago.pm chatter > > Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? > > > > Anybody know of any good algorithms to do ascii-only compression? > > > > That is, I'm going to spit in ascii data, and I want to read out ascii data. > > > > More specifically, I have 14 chunks of 6 numbers. And I want to > > compress it all into a single string that contains only upper case > > letters and numbers that can be later decompressed and broken back > > into those 14 chunks. > > > > Currently, I'm base-36 encoding the chunks. It seems to save me 33% of > > the space, 6 digits -> 4 digits. > > > > Further, ideally, I'd like to avoid using an external lookup table. If > > I'm going to have an external table, I'd just dump my entire value > > into it and then read it out as a single integer ID lookup value. :-) > > I may end up just falling back on this, though. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > -Jim..... > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Oct 29 02:42:00 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri Oct 29 02:29:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ASCII compression? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704102814431f5d8257@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf7041028134652a242bf@mail.gmail.com> <200410282120.i9SLK2WL001023@www.pm.org> <5cfdfaf70410281441582c20ac@mail.gmail.com> <5cfdfaf704102814431f5d8257@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Oh, another monkey wrench I can throw into the works - it is unlikely > that there will be much repeated data. 2 number sequences are > reasonable, 3 number sequences are possible. Beyond that is very > unlikely to see duplicates. > > The more that I think about it,t he more that I think my approach of > converting to base36 is the best. Only other thing I can think of is huffman encode the stuff using bit sequences from the alphanumerics. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508