From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com Mon May 3 16:32:19 2004 From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Camelbones talk on May 4th Message-ID: <20040503213219.17908.qmail@web60204.mail.yahoo.com> Just doing some self-promotion. Don't forget that at tomorrow's Tech Meeting (May 4th), I'll be giving a quick introduction to the Camelbones framework. For those unaware, Camelbones is an OS X framework that lets you develop full-fledged cocoa GUI OS X applications using perl. So if you're tired of dwelling on the command line, you can easily get up and going with some graphical interfaces to your perl programs. No objective-C, C, C++, or anything beyond perl knowledge required. -Jim..... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com Tue May 4 15:01:00 2004 From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] burritos? Message-ID: <20040504200100.4043.qmail@web60203.mail.yahoo.com> As always, I shall be at El Famous Burrito before the meeting for my monthly gigantic burrito allotment. Hopefully some of you all will be as well. 6:00 sounds about right, I do have to run off and prep a talk after all. :*) -Jim.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From andy at petdance.com Tue May 4 15:05:44 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] burritos? In-Reply-To: <20040504200100.4043.qmail@web60203.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040504200100.4043.qmail@web60203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040504200544.GA682@petdance.com> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 01:01:00PM -0700, Jim Thomason (jthomasoniii@yahoo.com) wrote: > As always, I shall be at El Famous Burrito before the > meeting for my monthly gigantic burrito allotment. > Hopefully some of you all will be as well. I won't be there, and in fact I'll be late. :-( xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From zrusilla at yahoo.com Wed May 5 09:36:44 2004 From: zrusilla at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Cortell) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Materials from last night's talk? In-Reply-To: <20040504200544.GA682@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20040505143644.24502.qmail@web41211.mail.yahoo.com> Are the slides and code samples from Jim's talk posted for download someplace? I was under the impression that they were, but I don't see them on the site. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From andy at petdance.com Wed May 5 09:45:23 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Materials from last night's talk? In-Reply-To: <20040505143644.24502.qmail@web41211.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040504200544.GA682@petdance.com> <20040505143644.24502.qmail@web41211.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040505144523.GA3154@petdance.com> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 07:36:44AM -0700, Elizabeth Cortell (zrusilla@yahoo.com) wrote: > Are the slides and code samples from Jim's talk posted > for download someplace? I was under the impression > that they were, but I don't see them on the site. http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/ xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From zrusilla at yahoo.com Wed May 5 09:48:10 2004 From: zrusilla at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Cortell) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Materials from last night's talk? In-Reply-To: <20040505144523.GA3154@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20040505144810.17812.qmail@web41204.mail.yahoo.com> Ah. I see. Didn't pursue it far enough. Thanks. Liz > http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com Wed May 5 10:15:59 2004 From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing Message-ID: <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> This was touched upon last night at the talk, and I didn't quite remember the details. I was actually closer than I thought. What was mentioned (and that I directed things to) was the case of doing this: my $variable = 'foo' if 0; To generalize it. The specific case was a regex: my $filename = $1 if $directory =~ s!([^/]+)$!!; And the issue is that the regex may fail (though in this case it was actually guaranteed to succeed) and that bizarre things can result. The general case is that this construct can be used (among other things) to simulate a static variable if you don't want to use a closure. Basically, the variable gets lexicalized on the first pass, but never again. Further, the assignment fails. Here, observe: foreach (1..5) { my $i = 7; print $i++, "\n"; } 7 7 7 7 7 foreach (1..5) { my $i = 7 if 0; print $i++, "\n"; } 0 1 2 3 4 (incidentally, $i starts off as undefined, it only prints out 0 because the ++ vivified it into that) This is a "feature" that has been flagged as something that might go away in the future. It's still around in my 5.8.4, though, so it hasn't vanished yet. Personally, I avoid it like the plague, but it's another one of those useful things to be aware of in case you encounter it. -Jim.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From jt at plainblack.com Wed May 5 11:33:21 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Job Opportunity Message-ID: Brunswick New Technologies is looking to hire a full-time WebGUI (www.plainblack.com/webgui) developer. Required skills are Perl (of course) with a working knowledge of Linux, Apache, and MySQL. Prior experience with WebGUI is also a plus. If you're interested you can email the BNT CIO directly: jay.bahel@brunswick.com JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From gdf at speakeasy.net Wed May 5 14:04:28 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> On Wed, 5 May 2004 08:15:59 -0700 (PDT), Jim Thomason wrote: > The general case is that this construct can be used > (among other things) to simulate a static variable if > you don't want to use a closure. [...] > foreach (1..5) { > my $i = 7 if 0; > print $i++, "\n"; > } This is more readable like this: { my $x; sub foo() { print $x++, "\n"; } } foo() for (1..5); (Doesn't work under mod_perl, btw. But then, why are you doing it anyway? :) -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed May 5 14:15:01 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> References: <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Greg" == Greg Fast writes: Greg> { my $x; Greg> sub foo() { Greg> print $x++, "\n"; Greg> } Greg> } Greg> foo() for (1..5); Greg> (Doesn't work under mod_perl, btw. But then, why are you doing it Greg> anyway? :) Huh? Works fine under mod_perl. Doesn't work under Apache::Registry, which is a hack, and should eventually be migrated away from. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From gdf at speakeasy.net Wed May 5 15:51:53 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org> On 05 May 2004 12:14:58 -0700, merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote: > >>>>> "Greg" == Greg Fast writes: > Greg> { my $x; > Greg> sub foo() { > Greg> print $x++, "\n"; > Greg> } > Greg> } > Greg> foo() for (1..5); > > Greg> (Doesn't work under mod_perl, btw. But then, why are you doing it > Greg> anyway? :) > > Huh? Works fine under mod_perl. Doesn't work under Apache::Registry, > which is a hack, and should eventually be migrated away from. Huh. Well, I guess I haven't tried it recently, but it always gave me those "variable won't stay shared" problems back in the day. (Also, the prototype on that sub was a brain fart.) -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed May 5 16:28:16 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org> References: <86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> <200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Greg" == Greg Fast writes: >> Huh? Works fine under mod_perl. Doesn't work under Apache::Registry, >> which is a hack, and should eventually be migrated away from. Greg> Huh. Well, I guess I haven't tried it recently, but it always gave me Greg> those "variable won't stay shared" problems back in the day. Well, were you using Apache::Registry? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From gdf at speakeasy.net Wed May 5 16:56:16 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> <200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org> On 05 May 2004 14:28:15 -0700, merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote: > >>>>> "Greg" == Greg Fast writes: > >> Huh? Works fine under mod_perl. Doesn't work under Apache::Registry, > >> which is a hack, and should eventually be migrated away from. > > Greg> Huh. Well, I guess I haven't tried it recently, but it always gave me > Greg> those "variable won't stay shared" problems back in the day. > > Well, were you using Apache::Registry? Yes, I was. I guess that's what I tend to mean when I say "under mod_perl". -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com Wed May 5 20:20:27 2004 From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing References: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com><200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org><200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org> <200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: Hi All, I just sent out a message to LUNI and DGLUG, so it's probably a cross-post, buuuut, you folks are my favorite mailing list, even though I rarely post, and almost never attend meetings. I know we hate Python, but I figure it's a good idea to keep a list of people that like the language, so when the LAMP/P/P wars break out, we'll know who to attack: Hello All, I like Chicago area users groups. I also like Python. Although there is a Chicago Python Meetup, I can't attend the meetings. I keep looking for Chicago Python mailing lists, and find none. If anyone knows of a Chicago Python Users groups, and I'm doing something that's already been done, let me know. Otherwise, if you're interested in Python, and live in the greater Chicagoland area, I invite you to join yet another mailing list: http://lonelylion.com/mailman/listinfo/chipy chiPy, the Chicago-area Python Users Group. Chris McAvoy chris at lonelylion dot com From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com Wed May 5 20:31:31 2004 From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Whoops. References: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com><200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org><200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org><200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: Whoops. I meant to change the subject line. Sorry folks. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris McAvoy" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing > Hi All, > > I just sent out a message to LUNI and DGLUG, so it's probably a cross-post, > buuuut, you folks are my favorite mailing list, even though I rarely post, > and almost never attend meetings. I know we hate Python, but I figure it's > a good idea to keep a list of people that like the language, so when the > LAMP/P/P wars break out, we'll know who to attack: > > Hello All, > > I like Chicago area users groups. I also like Python. Although there is a > Chicago Python Meetup, I can't attend the meetings. I keep looking for > Chicago Python mailing lists, and find none. > > If anyone knows of a Chicago Python Users groups, and I'm doing something > that's already been done, let me know. Otherwise, if you're interested in > Python, and live in the greater Chicagoland area, I invite you to join yet > another mailing list: > > http://lonelylion.com/mailman/listinfo/chipy > > chiPy, the Chicago-area Python Users Group. > > Chris McAvoy > chris at lonelylion dot com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed May 5 20:32:16 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org> References: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> <200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org> <200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <868yg69w80.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Greg" == Greg Fast writes: >> Well, were you using Apache::Registry? Greg> Yes, I was. I guess that's what I tend to mean when I say Greg> "under mod_perl". Most serious work under mod_perl is not with Apache::Registry, so I never assume. For example, nothing on my web site is Apache::Registry, and yet the entire site is served with mod_perl. The Apache::Registry hack surrounds your CGI.pm-compatible script with package Some::unique::name::here; sub handler { [your script here; all of it; and then some;] } And then invokes that request at the right time. It's the nested named-sub-within-named-sub-that-can-see-my-variables that's the problem, not the block with the my variable. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From ehs at pobox.com Wed May 5 21:27:06 2004 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <868yg69w80.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com> <200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org> <200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org> <200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org> <868yg69w80.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20040506022706.GD7204@chloe.inkdroid.org> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 06:32:15PM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > Most serious work under mod_perl is not with Apache::Registry, so I > never assume. For example, nothing on my web site is > Apache::Registry, and yet the entire site is served with mod_perl. Oh cool, did you generate that "under construction" graphic [1] with mod_perl? It looks pretty damn serious :-) //Ed [1] http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ From me at heyjay.com Thu May 6 06:33:32 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (me@heyjay.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing References: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com><200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org><200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org><200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org> <868yg69w80.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <003e01c4335d$f7896bd0$6705a8c0@a30> > Most serious work under mod_perl is not with Apache::Registry, so I > never assume. For example, nothing on my web site is > Apache::Registry, and yet the entire site is served with mod_perl. > > The Apache::Registry hack surrounds your CGI.pm-compatible script with > Ok, so how do you do development? Is there another mod_perl package that will recognize when your file changed, but not surround it with a sub { }? The only reason I've used Apache::Registry is to notice when my files have changed Jay From me at heyjay.com Thu May 6 06:41:32 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (me@heyjay.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing References: <86d65ia7io.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><86ekpy3cul.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com><20040505151559.616.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com><200405051904.i45J4U914584@mail.pm.org><200405052051.i45Kpt916842@mail.pm.org><200405052156.i45LuH917624@mail.pm.org><868yg69w80.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <003e01c4335d$f7896bd0$6705a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <004401c4335f$15851750$6705a8c0@a30> Never mind, Apache::Reload and I'm already using it Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing > > Most serious work under mod_perl is not with Apache::Registry, so I > > never assume. For example, nothing on my web site is > > Apache::Registry, and yet the entire site is served with mod_perl. > > > > The Apache::Registry hack surrounds your CGI.pm-compatible script with > > > > Ok, so how do you do development? Is there another mod_perl package that > will recognize when your file changed, but not surround it with a sub { }? > The only reason I've used Apache::Registry is to notice when my files have > changed > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From chimcentral at yahoo.com Thu May 6 10:41:09 2004 From: chimcentral at yahoo.com (matt boex) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <868yg69w80.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20040506154109.70408.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> i hope Apache::Registry doesn't go away soon. i built my site using it and find it to be extremely fast and easy. just one guys opinion. mb "Randal L. Schwartz" wrote: >>>>> "Greg" == Greg Fast writes: >> Well, were you using Apache::Registry? Greg> Yes, I was. I guess that's what I tend to mean when I say Greg> "under mod_perl". Most serious work under mod_perl is not with Apache::Registry, so I never assume. For example, nothing on my web site is Apache::Registry, and yet the entire site is served with mod_perl. The Apache::Registry hack surrounds your CGI.pm-compatible script with package Some::unique::name::here; sub handler { [your script here; all of it; and then some;] } And then invokes that request at the right time. It's the nested named-sub-within-named-sub-that-can-see-my-variables that's the problem, not the block with the my variable. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040506/fb89bae8/attachment.htm From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu May 6 11:07:49 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] my my if nothing In-Reply-To: <20040506154109.70408.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040506154109.70408.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86llk55yjx.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "matt" == matt boex writes: matt> i hope Apache::Registry doesn't go away soon. i built my site matt> using it and find it to be extremely fast and easy. just one matt> guys opinion. Look at Apache::Template. Like Apache::Registry (plop a file into a directory, and it turns into a URL), but with Template Toolkit instead of plain Perl. Coo. Major coo! *That's* how I do stonehenge.com. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From briank at kappacs.com Thu May 6 16:56:19 2004 From: briank at kappacs.com (Brian Katzung) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl job; UNIX/C job Message-ID: <409AB483.7070808@kappacs.com> Job Description for Perl programmer Skills A: Perl 4-6yrs, Unix 4-6yrs, Sybase, SQL 4-6yrs B: 1-3yrs Java, Finance knowledge This hire will help migrate a business of the bank onto an in-house developed reconciliation tool used to match trade data between a accounting system and outside custodians. The position will involve mostly perl, Unix and Sybase. The hire will need to be able to work on his/her own with minimal supervision. Java experience and finance knowledge are a plus. Probably ~3mo; contract-to-hire Job Description for UNIX/C Programmer A Skills: UNIX, development experience, with C, DB2 or UDB and SQL Must have an easy going personality to handle the start stop changes in the projects they will be working on. Project is to convert UNIX, C programs with the data in UDB Tables to a Graphical ETL tool. They will be taught AbInitio on the job. Probably 6+ month contract; possible contract-to-hire Please contact me if interested. - Brian From frag at ripco.com Fri May 7 10:32:25 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long Message-ID: Getopt::Long doesn't seem to have the ability to take command-line arguments like --foo a b c --bar 1 2 3 and, say, give you @foo = qw(a b c) and @bar = (1, 2, 3). To get that, you have to require that the arguments look like one of these: --foo a,b,c --bar 1,2,3 # and split on commas later --foo a --foo b --foo c --bar 1 --bar 2 --bar 3 Does anyone know of an alternative to Getopt::Long that can handle the first example? -- Mike F. From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri May 7 13:38:32 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long Message-ID: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> -- Mike Fragassi > > Getopt::Long doesn't seem to have the ability to take command-line > arguments like > > --foo a b c --bar 1 2 3 There is now way for it to know that "a b c" is an argument. No reason you cannot use some extended options for processing the stuff (lotsawork) or just: --foo='a b c'; my @foo = split /\s+/, $cmdline->{foo}; > and, say, give you @foo = qw(a b c) and @bar = (1, 2, 3). To get that, > you have to require that the arguments look like one of these: > > --foo a,b,c --bar 1,2,3 # and split on commas later > > --foo a --foo b --foo c --bar 1 --bar 2 --bar 3 > > Does anyone know of an alternative to Getopt::Long that can handle the > first example? You could also use: --foo=a --foo=b --foo=c and get an array referent to begin with (see GO::L doc's for handling multiples). -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 359 3508 From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com Fri May 7 14:08:23 2004 From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040507190823.71497.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com> > --foo a b c --bar 1 2 3 You could always roll your own. Look, here's a fancy (and inefficient) oneliner to stick 'em into a hash: my %args = map {/--\w+/ ? $_ : [grep {/\S/} split / /]} grep {length} split(/(--\w+)/, join(' ', @ARGV)); -Jim... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From frag at ripco.com Fri May 7 15:15:46 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Steven Lembark wrote: > -- Mike Fragassi > > Getopt::Long doesn't seem to have the ability to take command-line > > arguments like > > > > --foo a b c --bar 1 2 3 > > There is now way for it to know that "a b c" is an argument. But why not? You can already do GetOptions('foo=s' => \@foo); It should at least be feasible to go GetOptions('foo=s+' => \@foo); # or 'foo=sl', or 'foo=S', or whatever which could tell it to keep shifting @ARGV into @foo until you hit the next --switch. Or a configuration parameter (like 'auto_abbrev' or 'permute') to do this for all array parameters by default. I haven't tried hacking Getopt::Long (yet), but I was surprised this sort of thing isn't in place. > No reason you cannot use some extended options for processing > the stuff (lotsawork) or just: > > --foo='a b c'; ...which is the same as > > --foo a,b,c --bar 1,2,3 # and split on commas later > You could also use: > > --foo=a --foo=b --foo=c ...which is the same as > > --foo a --foo b --foo c --bar 1 --bar 2 --bar 3 I know these work; I know I can hack @ARGV directly; I was wondering if there's a module that already does what I'm asking. (This is all about the First Virtue, guys.) -- Mike F. From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com Fri May 7 15:33:29 2004 From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040507203329.94791.qmail@web60207.mail.yahoo.com> > (This is all about the First Virtue, guys.) Hey, I gave you a slick and slightly legible oneliner to yank the stuff outta @ARGV. All you'd need to do is cut 'n paste, which shouldn't violate the first virtue. Saying, "Hey, you guys, somebody wanna write me a snippet to do this?" is still plenty lazy. :) -Jim...... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From wiggins at danconia.org Fri May 7 15:51:55 2004 From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d Anconia) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long Message-ID: <200405072051.i47Kptq12596@residualselfimage.com> > > On Fri, 7 May 2004, Steven Lembark wrote: > > -- Mike Fragassi > > > Getopt::Long doesn't seem to have the ability to take command-line > > > arguments like > > > > > > --foo a b c --bar 1 2 3 > > > > There is now way for it to know that "a b c" is an argument. > > But why not? You can already do > > GetOptions('foo=s' => \@foo); > > It should at least be feasible to go > > GetOptions('foo=s+' => \@foo); # or 'foo=sl', or 'foo=S', or whatever If I understand correctly it is so that there can be a distinction between what is an argument and what is an input file. Normally the shell (at least in the GNU world) would interpret "a b c" as input files rather than command switches. The problem becomes how does GetOpt understand the distinction between what is a listed argument and what is an input file. Enter the commas, verbose switching, etc. The + is an interesting notion but adds one additional step and complexity just to prevent the need for user to "just do it the way everyone else does". To me this adds testing steps, documentation, (dumb) user support, etc. > > which could tell it to keep shifting @ARGV into @foo until you hit the > next --switch. Or a configuration parameter (like 'auto_abbrev' or > 'permute') to do this for all array parameters by default. I haven't > tried hacking Getopt::Long (yet), but I was surprised this sort of thing > isn't in place. > Problem becomes what if there isn't a next switch, then your user has to remember to throw a '--' in there or something similar, if they can't remember to add commas between options how are they going to remember to add a '--' between command arguments and input files. After seeing the problems that arise in the GnuPG world when a user doesn't understand the difference between an option and an argument I would hate to add this kind of thing to any application. Just some thoughts... http://danconia.org From frag at ripco.com Fri May 7 15:52:39 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: <20040507203329.94791.qmail@web60207.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040507203329.94791.qmail@web60207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Jim Thomason wrote: > > (This is all about the First Virtue, guys.) > > Hey, I gave you a slick and slightly legible oneliner > to yank the stuff outta @ARGV. > > All you'd need to do is cut 'n paste, which shouldn't > violate the first virtue. > > Saying, "Hey, you guys, somebody wanna write me a > snippet to do this?" is still plenty lazy. :) It's only lazy if you don't want to/don't need to test the snippet, which was kinda obfu. Maybe if you threw in a test suite with that snippet... But even then, I want more than just this feature (e.g. the way Getopt::Long detects undeclared options), without having to go through the very unlazy process of wheel reinvention. -- Mike F. From frag at ripco.com Fri May 7 16:16:17 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: <200405072051.i47Kptq12596@residualselfimage.com> References: <200405072051.i47Kptq12596@residualselfimage.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Wiggins d Anconia wrote: > > GetOptions('foo=s+' => \@foo); # or 'foo=sl', or 'foo=S', or whatever > > If I understand correctly it is so that there can be a distinction > between what is an argument and what is an input file. Normally the Fair enough -- if you're creating an app for public release that may take files as STDIN. I'm creating an in-house script only to be used by admins that works on our database tables and that does nothing with STDIN. Put another way, I'm not worried if the contents of @ARGV get slurped up into the last option's array, because @ARGV should be empty by the time GetOptions() finishes, or else there's an error. So, in my situation, what I want to do makes sense. I'm certainly not proposing it become Getopt::Long's default behavior. > an input file. Enter the commas, verbose switching, etc. The + is an > interesting notion but adds one additional step and complexity just to > prevent the need for user to "just do it the way everyone else does". > To me this adds testing steps, documentation, (dumb) user support, etc. Well, yeah, but Getopt::Long ain't a dainty beast in the first place, and this struck me as an obvious feature that'd probably would add very little complexity, rather than the equivalent of giving the module a mail reader. The prospect of having code with testing steps is kind of what I was hoping to find if someone knew of an applicable CPAN module. -- Mike F. From gdf at speakeasy.net Fri May 7 16:22:06 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Project note: PAR, executables, etc. Message-ID: <200405072122.i47LM8F16043@mail.pm.org> I mentioned this project back in March, and just had the chance to get back to it. I figured I'd write a update, since I learned a little about PAR. The project is a perl program with a payload. Specifically, with an archive containing some java class files and a JVM to run them. The program basically finds the payload, then does a system("java","com.example.Proggie"). This gets around the need to install a JVM before running the (Java) app. (Let's assume for the purposes of the exercise that this is reasonable.) Finally, the perl program is turned into a self-contained executable which can be handed to clicky types. Because I have access to PerlApp and I've used it before, I assumed I'd use that to create the EXE. Several people suggested I look at PAR. It took me a while to realize that PAR's "pp" utility has the ability to create executables *without* requiring a native compiler (the docs have improved a lot since I first looked at it). I'd been assuming it was using some sort of wacky perlcc hackery. It actually works by pre-compiling an executable header during the "make" phase of installation, which "pp" just glues to the top of a chunk of PAR archive data and the perl interpreter. So once PAR is installed, everything is pure perl. This is a neat trick. However, PAR is aimed at collections of perl modules, more than at self-contained applications. You can add non-module resources to the PAR/executable, but they lose directory structure information ("foo/bar.txt" gets stored as "/bar.txt"). Furthermore, since PAR is all tricky internally, it's complicated to access non-module files for doing things like copying files from the archive, or executing archive entries as programs ("java.exe", in my case). So I wrote Archive::SelfExtract, which handles the payload bit. (It hasn't been exercised much in the wild yet, so it's probably got another couple of bugfix iterations to go.) Now I can write my bootstrap script, then do: bash$ mkselfextract bootstrap.pl javanstuff.zip > temp.pl bash$ pp -o install temp.pl -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From lembark at wrkhors.com Sat May 8 20:52:30 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> >> There is now way for it to know that "a b c" is an argument. > > But why not? You can already do Show me a *NIX shell that does not split its arguments on whitespace. If you run the perl code on it then your arguments won't be separated in @ARGV. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Sat May 8 20:56:58 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: <200405072051.i47Kptq12596@residualselfimage.com> References: <200405072051.i47Kptq12596@residualselfimage.com> Message-ID: <379960000.1084067818@[192.168.100.3]> > If I understand correctly it is so that there can be a distinction > between what is an argument and what is an input file. Normally the > shell (at least in the GNU world) would interpret "a b c" as input files > rather than command switches. The problem becomes how does GetOpt > understand the distinction between what is a listed argument and what is > an input file. Enter the commas, verbose switching, etc. The + is an > interesting notion but adds one additional step and complexity just to > prevent the need for user to "just do it the way everyone else does". > To me this adds testing steps, documentation, (dumb) user support, etc. No, the shell doesn't interpret anything that isn't on one end of a redirect (e.g., '> foobar'). These do not show up as arguments to the running process, however. The issue here has noting to do with perl, it's how the shell expands the line being passed into the second argument (char **argv) of the proc. > Problem becomes what if there isn't a next switch, then your user has to > remember to throw a '--' in there or something similar, if they can't > remember to add commas between options how are they going to remember to > add a '--' between command arguments and input files. Yup. Which is why the simplest fix is to either use multiple --foo=bar entries to build the array or --foo='bar bletch' to protect the whitespace from being gobbled up by the shell before perl has a chance to see it. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Sun May 9 00:55:58 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: <20040507190823.71497.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040507190823.71497.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B8BB518394970743F2FE486@[192.168.100.3]> -- Jim Thomason >> --foo a b c --bar 1 2 3 > > You could always roll your own. > > Look, here's a fancy (and inefficient) oneliner to > stick 'em into a hash: > > my %args = map {/--\w+/ ? $_ : [grep {/\S/} split / > /]} grep {length} split(/(--\w+)/, join(' ', @ARGV)); How would you want to handle mixed types or cases where a lone '-' ends the switches (e.g., grep)? -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508 From frag at ripco.com Sun May 9 14:45:44 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 2004, Steven Lembark wrote: > >> There is now way for it to know that "a b c" is an argument. > > > > But why not? You can already do > > Show me a *NIX shell that does not split its arguments > on whitespace. If you run the perl code on it then your > arguments won't be separated in @ARGV. The point is not to prevent @AGRV from being split on \s+, the point is that the @ARGV processor could assign multiple values to the designated array until it reaches the next switch. -- Mike F. From lembark at wrkhors.com Sun May 9 16:05:19 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: -- Mike Fragassi > > On Sat, 8 May 2004, Steven Lembark wrote: > >> >> There is now way for it to know that "a b c" is an argument. >> > >> > But why not? You can already do >> >> Show me a *NIX shell that does not split its arguments >> on whitespace. If you run the perl code on it then your >> arguments won't be separated in @ARGV. > > The point is not to prevent @AGRV from being split on \s+, the point is > that the @ARGV processor could assign multiple values to the designated > array until it reaches the next switch. How would you handle: foo --bar bletch blort blam; with "blam" being the first program argument, bletch and blort being arguments to the --bar switch? Or deal gracefully with single-dash switches: foo -bletch -b blort blam; let alone combined ones. If you can figure out a reliable way to handle this that doesn't involve more typing than multiple use of the switches feel free, but the existing system exists largely because noone has found any really better one. -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508 From wiggins at danconia.org Sun May 9 16:26:04 2004 From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: <409EA1EC.6090505@danconia.org> Steven Lembark wrote: > > > -- Mike Fragassi > >> >> On Sat, 8 May 2004, Steven Lembark wrote: >> >>> >> There is now way for it to know that "a b c" is an argument. >>> > >>> > But why not? You can already do >>> >>> Show me a *NIX shell that does not split its arguments >>> on whitespace. If you run the perl code on it then your >>> arguments won't be separated in @ARGV. >> >> >> The point is not to prevent @AGRV from being split on \s+, the point is >> that the @ARGV processor could assign multiple values to the designated >> array until it reaches the next switch. > > > How would you handle: > > foo --bar bletch blort blam; > > with "blam" being the first program argument, bletch and blort > being arguments to the --bar switch? Or deal gracefully with > single-dash switches: > Well that is where the -- argument I made earlier comes in, but personally as a user I would find it harder to remember to add that then the extra typing. > foo -bletch -b blort blam; > > let alone combined ones. > > If you can figure out a reliable way to handle this that doesn't > involve more typing than multiple use of the switches feel free, > but the existing system exists largely because noone has found > any really better one. > This is kind of what I was trying to get at, but the newer explanations have definitely done a better job of it :-).... http://danconia.org From frag at ripco.com Mon May 10 09:24:21 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Steven Lembark wrote: > -- Mike Fragassi > > The point is not to prevent @AGRV from being split on \s+, the point is > > that the @ARGV processor could assign multiple values to the designated > > array until it reaches the next switch. > > How would you handle: > > foo --bar bletch blort blam; > > with "blam" being the first program argument, bletch and blort > being arguments to the --bar switch? Or deal gracefully with > single-dash switches: If you read my other emails, you'd note that in my case I do not have program arguments unattached to switches, and I am not arguing for this being the one way everyone should always do things. (Nor am I saying this is the one way I intend to always do things, nor am I saying this is in general the better way.) > Or deal gracefully with single-dash switches: > > foo -bletch -b blort blam; Easy: the same way that Getopt::Long does it. > let alone combined ones. The same way that Getopt::Long does it. > If you can figure out a reliable way to handle this that doesn't > involve more typing than multiple use of the switches feel free, > but the existing system exists largely because noone has found > any really better one. Searching CPAN for 'Getopt' yields 39 modules. There Is More Than One Way To Do It. And all I'm asking is if anyone knows if any of them does what I'm describing. (Presently, I'm looking at Getopt::Declare, which apparently permits the following: -pages 1 -pages 1 2 7 20 --window x It's written by some Australian guy you probably haven't heard of.) -- Mike F. From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon May 10 23:44:39 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: <57C44C650ED0D948B538BA37@[192.168.100.3]> > Searching CPAN for 'Getopt' yields 39 modules. There Is More Than One > Way To Do It. And all I'm asking is if anyone knows if any of them does > what I'm describing. (Presently, I'm looking at Getopt::Declare, > which apparently permits the following: > > -pages 1 > -pages 1 2 7 20 > --window x > > It's written by some Australian guy you probably haven't heard of.) Unless Damian has a twin, this is a really, really old module that has some serious bugs and hasn't been maintatined for quite a while (unless he's gone back and played with it recently). You might want to eyeball it closely before using it in any production situations. -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508 From frag at ripco.com Tue May 11 08:48:09 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] alternatives to Getopt::Long In-Reply-To: <57C44C650ED0D948B538BA37@[192.168.100.3]> References: <254800000.1083955112@[192.168.100.3]> <378860000.1084067550@[192.168.100.3]> <57C44C650ED0D948B538BA37@[192.168.100.3]> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, Steven Lembark wrote: > > (Presently, I'm looking at Getopt::Declare, which apparently permits > > the following: > > > > -pages 1 > > -pages 1 2 7 20 > > --window x > > > > It's written by some Australian guy you probably haven't heard of.) > > Unless Damian has a twin, this is a really, really old module that > has some serious bugs and hasn't been maintatined for quite a while > (unless he's gone back and played with it recently). He has (Feb 3, 2004), although I'm not sure how much coverage the one test script provides. -- Mike F. From ehs at pobox.com Tue May 11 09:35:41 2004 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Project note: PAR, executables, etc. In-Reply-To: <200405072122.i47LM8F16043@mail.pm.org> References: <200405072122.i47LM8F16043@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <20040511143541.GC31270@chloe.inkdroid.org> On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 04:22:06PM -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > I mentioned this project back in March, and just had the chance to get > back to it. I figured I'd write a update, since I learned a little > about PAR. I'd be interested in hearing more about how PAR works, and how you ended up using it with Archive::SelfExtract. Would you be willing to do a presentation about it at a meeting sometime? //Ed From rich at mossltd.com Thu May 13 16:43:31 2004 From: rich at mossltd.com (Richard Moss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl contract jobs! Message-ID: <20040513214334.FWXS25150.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@RICHOFFICE> I'm looking for perl developers to work for a client of mine in downtown Chicago. These are independent contract positions for perl and/or C++ developers, particularly those with Linux experience. You will work on porting an existing C++ and perl code base from Solaris to Linux. GCC, G++, and Linux development tool experience is desired. Very competitive rates in a great development environment. Please contact me immediately if interested! Rich Moss Moss Search, LTD 630.724.9000 www.mossltd.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040513/8e5e3fb8/attachment.htm From gdf at speakeasy.net Thu May 13 17:03:22 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Project note: PAR, executables, etc. In-Reply-To: <20040511143541.GC31270@chloe.inkdroid.org> References: <20040511143541.GC31270@chloe.inkdroid.org> <200405072122.i47LM8F16043@mail.pm.org> Message-ID: <200405132203.i4DM3NW19617@mail.pm.org> On Tue, 11 May 2004 09:35:41 -0500, Ed Summers wrote: > On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 04:22:06PM -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > > I mentioned this project back in March, and just had the chance to get > > back to it. I figured I'd write a update, since I learned a little > > about PAR. > > I'd be interested in hearing more about how PAR works, and how you ended > up using it with Archive::SelfExtract. Would you be willing to do a > presentation about it at a meeting sometime? Yeah, sure. I probably wouldn't have the time to work up a presentation before 2-3 meetings from now. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From andy at petdance.com Mon May 17 12:51:40 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] June meeting: Getting a great job Message-ID: <20040517175140.GA6425@petdance.com> Next Chicago Perl Mongers meeting is June 1, 2004, 7pm. I'll be presenting my talk The Open Source Programmer's Guide To Getting A Great Job that I've been developing with Bill Odom of the St. Louis Perl Mongers. This is the same talk that I'll be giving at YAPC in June and at OSCON in July, so Chicago PM will be the first and cheapest way to hear my talk! I hope to see you there! xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Mon May 17 12:53:59 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] July meeting: Lightning talks! Message-ID: <20040517175359.GB6425@petdance.com> In July, we'll be doing Lightning Talks. LTs are 5-minute talks, given on any subject you can think of. Here's somewhere to look for ideas: http://perl.plover.com/lt/lightning-talks.html Lightning talks rely on YOU getting up there and doing your five minutes in the spotlight. It's a GREAT way for people who have never spoken before to get out there and get their feet wet. From MJD's page: Maybe you've never given a talk before, and you'd like to start small. For a Lightning Talk, you don't need to make slides, and if you do decide to make slides, you only need to make three. Maybe you're nervous and you're afraid you'll mess up. It's a lot easier to plan and deliver a five minute talk than it is to deliver a long talk. And if you do mess up, at least the painful part will be over quickly. Maybe you don't have much to say. Maybe you just want to ask a question, or invite people to help you with your project, or boast about something you did, or tell a short cautionary story. These things are all interesting and worth talking about, but there might not be enough to say about them to fill up thirty minutes. If you're at ALL interested in doing a talk, please contact me directly at andy@petdance.com, or talk on the chicago-talk mailing list. Lightning talks are a lot of fun, but to quote the great Dora The Explorer, "I need your help!" xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Mon May 17 14:45:45 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Our first lightning talk! Message-ID: I already have a lightning talk for July's meeting! GET YOURS IN NOW! -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jason at multiply.org Mon May 17 14:53:07 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Our first lightning talk! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: and the topic/speaker would be? btw, since the meeting is so close to independence day (big ups to will smith and jeff goldblum, yo), we should add a bbq component to the meeting. Perhaps we could all bring some food and drink. -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org On May 17, 2004, at 2:45 PM, Andy Lester wrote: > I already have a lightning talk for July's meeting! GET YOURS IN NOW! > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From frag at ripco.com Mon May 17 15:28:50 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Our first lightning talk! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Andy Lester wrote: > I already have a lightning talk for July's meeting! GET YOURS IN NOW! Is there a deadline? -- Mike F. From andy at petdance.com Mon May 17 17:03:31 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Our first lightning talk! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08965B52-A84E-11D8-B8A1-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> > >> I already have a lightning talk for July's meeting! GET YOURS IN NOW! > > Is there a deadline? That's a good question, for which I have no answer. I guess the answer is "No, but there will be one at some point." xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Tue May 18 16:37:50 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Looking for a Perl consultancy Message-ID: <20040518213750.GA9975@petdance.com> I'm looking for a consultancy that can handle a web-database application, from requirements to development, that will graft on to our existing web application. Needs to be in the Chicago area as we'll need a fair amount of on-site time. Suggestions? Any sales people lurking here can drop me an email. Thanks, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue May 18 21:47:25 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Handling big files... Message-ID: <04152FB03CAE2AF677B8DAA7@[192.168.100.3]> > I probably should have mentioned I am trying to get the data to/from > tape robot -- and that my only access to the robot is 2gig unix files. If you have an autochanger then try: bzip -9 < $bigfile | split --bytes=$((1024*1024*1024*2 - 1)) --suffix-length=4; This will generate a sequence "aaaa" ... "zzzz" of 2gig-1-byte files with one runt at the end. Advantage here is avoiding the need for a local copy of the .bz2 file (or .gz file if you use gzip) along with the split up copies. If your files are remote from the server you can use Net::FTP to download them into an open file handle that leads to a pipe. my $size = 2**31 - 1; open my $fh, '| gzip --fast | split --suffix-length=4 --bytes=$size' or die "split: $!"; my $ftp = Net::FTP->new( blah blah ); $ftp->get( $remote_file, $fh ); this will slurp the file down from a remote server, squish it on the fly, and split it into "????" files. After that you can use the autochanger to spit the files onto tape. If you have ssh access you can run the gzip remotely and spit the result into files on the fly: ssh $host "gzip --fast --verbose $bigfile" | split --suffix-length=4 --bytes=$((1024*1024*1024*2-1)); will do the trick. -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed May 19 12:10:26 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender In-Reply-To: <20040519170305.A2F63A37@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <20040519170305.A2F63A37@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: -- Mail Delivery System > This is the Postfix program at host duke.wrkhors.com. > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned > below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. > > For further assistance, please send mail to > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the message returned below. > > The Postfix program > > : host petdance.com[209.68.53.41] said: 553 sorry, that > domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) (in reply to > RCPT TO command) -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508 From andy at petdance.com Wed May 19 12:56:58 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Mail bummers In-Reply-To: References: <20040519170305.A2F63A37@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <20040519175658.GA11533@petdance.com> Sorry to everyone else, watching all this Steven/Andy stuff goin' back and forth... On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 12:10:26PM -0500, Steven Lembark (lembark@wrkhors.com) wrote: > >This is the Postfix program at host duke.wrkhors.com. My postfix complains because duke.wrkhors.com doesn't resolve, and so doesn't accept a connection from you. I loosened that restriction, but I doubt I'm the only one who has it. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From onefix at waste.org Wed May 19 19:44:16 2004 From: onefix at waste.org (ogden nefix) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inquiry about mod_perl replacement Message-ID: <40ABFF60.9010906@waste.org> Hi, I am sorry if this is off topic but it is mod_perl related, in a way. I have been working at a small startup company for the past year, which has great potential. It's in a market that is up and coming and we already have a good number of clients. The President of this company has experience in this market for the past 8 years. However, due to obligations beyond my control, I have to leave Chicago. Not wanting to leave my employer without a replacement, I figured I would ask around the Perl community. The company is great as it's flexible and offers good benefits and is situated in Lincoln Park/Lakeview. I wrote most of the code for this web-based product. The backend code was written with Mason and mod_perl and the database used is PostgreSQL - all on Debian Linux servers hosted downtown. All a replacement will have to do is maintain the code as well as add new "modules" to the application. If this is the wrong place to post this email, I would be grateful if someone pointed me in the right direction. Thank you very much. Ogden From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed May 19 21:41:07 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inquiry about mod_perl replacement In-Reply-To: <40ABFF60.9010906@waste.org> References: <40ABFF60.9010906@waste.org> Message-ID: > If this is the wrong place to post this email, I would be grateful if > someone pointed me in the right direction. So long as the job pays, feel free to post it :-) -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jt at plainblack.com Thu May 20 14:50:56 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Workflow for Perl Message-ID: Does anyone know of a generic workflow engine/mechanism/toolkit written in Perl? If not, I think I'm going to write one using POE. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From jt at plainblack.com Thu May 20 14:59:19 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSS Chicago: Open Source Licensing Message-ID: Just a reminder that OSS Chicago is tonight and the topic is OSS Licensing. Open Source Licensing Presenter: Ira Kalina This presentation will focus on the distinctions between licensing software under open source licenses versus proprietary models. We will discuss the critical aspects of the most common types of open source licenses and how these differences may impact your use, and your audience?s use, of the software. We will also focus on why and how you should consider auditing and managing your use of third party open source applications. Ira Kalina is partner in the Chicago office of Gardner, Carton & Douglas, counseling clients with respect to all aspects of information technology, from software licenses, network services and equipment leasing through system implementation, content development and broad-based outsourcing arrangements. Mr. Kalina represents clients from a diverse array of industries, including financial services, health care, entertainment, education, hospitality and travel, and traditional manufacturing. Prior to rejoining Gardner, Mr. Kalina has served as Vice President of Business Development and General Counsel of a Chicago based Internet start-up, and Licensing Counsel to WMS Gaming Inc., a leading manufacturer of video slot machines, and Midway Games Inc., a leading developer of home video games. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From thomasoniii at gmail.com Thu May 20 14:44:05 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Workflow for Perl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70405201244703f94b1@mail.gmail.com> You're talking about some sort of a state machine library as opposed to a flowcharting program, right? They seem to be lacking. POE is probably the best bet. If you want to be bleeding edge, Basset::Machine is a state machine. http://www.bassetsoftware.com/perl/basset/ Easy to use and works fairly well, but it's not documented yet. On my to-do list. -Jim...... On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:50:56 -0500, JT Smith wrote: > > Does anyone know of a generic workflow engine/mechanism/toolkit written in Perl? If not, > I think I'm going to write one using POE. > > JT ~ Plain Black > > Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From jt at plainblack.com Thu May 20 15:10:48 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Workflow for Perl In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf70405201244703f94b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, a state machine, not a flowcharting app. Thanks for the tip on Basset::Machine. I'll check it out. On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:44:05 -0500 Jim Thomason wrote: >You're talking about some sort of a state machine library as opposed >to a flowcharting program, right? They seem to be lacking. POE is >probably the best bet. > >If you want to be bleeding edge, Basset::Machine is a state machine. >http://www.bassetsoftware.com/perl/basset/ Easy to use and works >fairly well, but it's not documented yet. > >On my to-do list. > >-Jim...... > >On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:50:56 -0500, JT Smith wrote: >> >> Does anyone know of a generic workflow engine/mechanism/toolkit written in Perl? If >>not, >> I think I'm going to write one using POE. >> >> JT ~ Plain Black >> >> Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu May 20 14:40:02 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSS Chicago: Open Source Licensing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7CD66CFCC17EB758E1DA1396@foo.cognia.com> -- JT Smith > Just a reminder that OSS Chicago is tonight and the topic is OSS > Licensing. Didn't we put up an announce list for these items? It's certianly useful to have the postings, just makes it easier to avoid [missing them] on the separate list. -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508 From frag at ripco.com Thu May 20 16:40:10 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Workflow for Perl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, JT Smith wrote: > Does anyone know of a generic workflow engine/mechanism/toolkit written in Perl? If not, > I think I'm going to write one using POE. There's a Workflow.pm on CPAN. -- Mike F. From jt at plainblack.com Thu May 20 18:03:07 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Workflow for Perl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wow! That's new. I looked earlier this month and nothing was there. This was just uploaded last week! Serves me right. I Should have checked again today. On Thu, 20 May 2004 16:40:10 -0500 (CDT) Mike Fragassi wrote: > > >On Thu, 20 May 2004, JT Smith wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a generic workflow engine/mechanism/toolkit written in Perl? If >>not, >> I think I'm going to write one using POE. > >There's a Workflow.pm on CPAN. > >-- Mike F. > >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From fire at dls.net Thu May 27 09:51:51 2004 From: fire at dls.net (fire@dls.net) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] XBase.pm Message-ID: <20040527145151.15D55968511@demolition.dls.net> Perl Mongers, I recently had to retrieve data from a handful of old dBase III+ or dBase IV data files and found the package XBase.pm to be exceedingly useful. While I found the documentation to be incomplete, I was still able to write this program without having to open up the source code. Here is the little program I wrote to convert a number of dBase files into tab-delimited text files. Perhaps this will be useful to someone else who has old dBase files but not the ambition to try to hard to get the data out. Bradley Slavik # read_dbf.pl use XBase; my @commodity = qw(AG BC BO C KI MB S SM U2 US W); for my $commodity (qw(AG BC BO C KI MB S SM U2 US W)) { my $table = new XBase "LDB$commodity.dbf" or die XBase->errstr; open STDOUT, ">LDB$commodity.txt" or die "Cannot open LDB$commodity.txt"; print $table->header_info, "\n"; #$table->dump_records("fs" => " | ", "rs" => " <-+\n", "fields" => [ "id", "msg" ]); $table->dump_records("fs" => "\t", "rs" => "\n"); close STDOUT; } From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Fri May 28 22:28:10 2004 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:28:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Anyone tried to compile 5.8.X on SuSE 9.1? Message-ID: I get floating point errors with perl -- and just about anything else I try to compile. Be nice to find someone with similar problems or who'se solved the issue. -- Steven Lembark 9 Music Square South, Box 344 Workhorse Computing Nashville, TN 37203 lembark@wrkors.com 1 888 359 3508