From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan  2 12:34:12 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "I don't have permission to
	installamoduleonthesystem!"
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOEMBDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOEMBDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <3701760000.1073068452@[192.168.200.4]>



-- petemar1 <petemar1@perlmonk.org>

> Argh.
>
> ...
>
> Files=34, Tests=381, 43 wallclock secs (31.23 cusr +  2.94 csys = 34.17
> CPU)   /usr/bin/make test -- OK
> Running make install
> Manifying blib/man3/WWW::Mechanize::Examples.3
> Manifying blib/man3/WWW::Mechanize::Link.3
> Manifying blib/man1/mech-dump.1
> Manifying blib/man3/WWW::Mechanize::FAQ.3
> Manifying blib/man3/WWW::Mechanize.3
> Warning: You do not have permissions to install into
> /opt/perl/perl-5.8.0/lib/site_perl/5.8.0/i586-linux at
> /opt/perl/perl-5.8.0/lib/5.8.0/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 84.
> mkdir /opt/perl/perl-5.8.0/lib/site_perl/5.8.0/WWW: Permission denied at
> /opt/perl/perl-5.8.0/lib/5.8.0/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 137
> make: *** [pure_site_install] Error 255
>   /usr/bin/make install /home/petemar1/sandbox/lib -- NOT OK
>     You may have to su to root to install the package
>
> cpan>

If you installed perl then you may have screwed up and done
it SU with a umask of 022. Simplest fix:

	$ cd /opt/perl-blah;
	$ su -p;
	<password>
	# find . -type f | xargs chmod g+w;
	# find . -type d | xargs chmod 02775;
	# find . | xargs chgrp bin;
	# vi /etc/group
	<add your userid to "bin">
	# exit;
	$ exit;

Setting the GID bit on dir's does two things: propagates
the sgid bid to subdirs and sets the GID of all files in
the directory to match the dir's. In this case it'll mean
that any new dir's have the SGID bit set and anything in
placed there will have "bin" as the GID. Adding yourself
to the bin group and making sure that the system's umask
is 002 (normally true for non-SU logins) will leave anyone
in the bin group able to install into the perl directory.

This is a safe-and-sane alternative to most peoples idiocy
of installing everything as SU to avoid protection issues.
One of the older CPAN modules used to have a line like:

	...
	rm -rf /* .... OK

with a 5 second sleep follwed by a message asking why anyone
would be dumb enough to run anything they simply grabbed off
the net as SU :-)

I'd actually suggest running the xargs tricks above on /opt
and never again installing anything into it SU. If anyone
has a package that requires SU they can explain why before
you switch over -- and you can complete 90% of all install
steps without running obscene risks.


Of course, if you didn't install perl and don't have write
access to /opt/perl-blah via SU then none of the above will
work. At that point do your development in a sandbox with
~/sandbox/lib in it and just use FindBin::libs.

enjoi

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan  2 12:36:35 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "I don't have permission to
	installamoduleonthesystem!"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0312310940350.14803@shell2>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOEMBDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0312310940350.14803@shell2>
Message-ID: <3702980000.1073068595@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Mike Fragassi <frag@ripco.com>

>
> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, petemar1 wrote:
>
>> Argh.
>>
> ...
>> make: *** [pure_site_install] Error 255
>>   /usr/bin/make install /home/petemar1/sandbox/lib -- NOT OK
>>     You may have to su to root to install the package
>>
>> petemar1:~/.cpan/CPAN$ more MyConfig.pm
> ...
>>   'makepl_arg' => q[/home/petemar1/sandbox],
>
> This should be:
>
>     'makepl_arg' => q[PREFIX=/your/home/dir/here],

Note: it's probably better to isolate the perl install
below a home directory. Otherwise you end up with ~/lib,
~/man, etc.

	makepl_arg => 'PREFIX=$ENV{HOME}/perl5'

or

	makepl_arg => 'PREFIX=~/perl5'

for example simplifies things a bit by putting all of the
perly stuff in one place.

enjoi

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Fri Jan  2 23:13:41 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "I don't have permission
	toinstallamoduleonthesystem!"
In-Reply-To: <3701760000.1073068452@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEMLDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

Eureka.

<wipes blood from ear>

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Steven Lembark
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 12:34 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] "I don't have permission
toinstallamoduleonthesystem!"

...

Of course, if you didn't install perl and don't have write
access to /opt/perl-blah via SU then none of the above will
work. At that point do your development in a sandbox with
~/sandbox/lib in it and just use FindBin::libs.

enjoi

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jan  3 14:14:10 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "I don't have permission
	toinstallamoduleonthesystem!"
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEMLDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEMLDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <4285550000.1073160850@[192.168.200.4]>


>> ~/sandbox/lib in it and just use FindBin::libs.

> Eureka.
>
> <wipes blood from ear>

The POD has some examples of how to set this up.

Simplest:

	$ cd;
	$ mkdir sandbox; # or symlink your workspace
	$ cd sandbox;
	$ mkdir lib;
	$ cvs -d$wherever co $project;

At this point you have ~/sandbox/project and ~/sandbox/lib.

>From then on use all of the PREFIX tricks with the prefix
set to q{~/sandbox}. The installer will do the rest :-)

If you get the SA's to install FindBin::libs in the distro's
lib directory, e.g.

	/opt/perl5/lib/site_perl/5.8.2/FindBin/libs.pm

then you can just:

	use FindBin::libs;

in your code and be done with it. The module will search
up $Bin for "lib" directories. If your code lives in
~/sandbox/project/bin it'll use ./sandbox/project/lib
then ./sandbox/lib. If you are working with other people
you can share your ./sandbox/lib dir's via a symlink and
use project dir's for the lib branches -- all without the
SA's touching anything else in the distro's lib directory.

enjoi

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sun Jan  4 02:43:56 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mars
In-Reply-To: <4285550000.1073160850@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOENCDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=4069161&
section=news

U.S. Rover Lands on Mars After Daring Plunge
Sun January 04, 2004 01:40 AM ET



By Dan Whitcomb and Gina Keating

PASADENA, Calif. (Reuters) - The U.S. spacecraft carrying a robotic explorer
designed to search for signs of life on Mars arrived safely on Saturday,
capping seven months of space travel and "six minutes of hell" while
plunging through the Martian atmosphere.

A lander carrying the Spirit rover made what NASA officials called a
textbook touch-down in a huge impact crater, bouncing and rolling across the
bleak landscape while cushioned by giant airbags.

Project scientists at the space agency's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in
Pasadena, California, broke into wild cheers when the lander sent a signal
back to Earth telling them it had survived a final six-minute plummet to the
surface.

NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe, on hand for what was a critical moment for
his agency, popped champagne at a post-landing press briefing. Mars has
proven a tough challenge for NASA, which lost two spacecraft there in 1998
and 1999, and officials said more than half of man's missions to the red
planet have failed.

"This is a big night for NASA -- we're back," O'Keefe declared. "I'm very,
very proud of this team and we're on Mars. This is an absolutely incredible
accomplishment."

The presence of O'Keefe made clear that the $820 million mission's success
was of utmost importance to the U.S. space agency and he called it a
"double-header" following the successful Stardust mission on Friday.

That craft intercepted a comet and gathered particles in a first that could
offer clues about how Earth began.

The Spirit spacecraft entered Mars' atmosphere at about 7:29 p.m. PST 10:29
p.m. EST/0329 GMT after an approach that took the spacecraft from a top
speed of 12,000 mph to zero in six minutes.

SAYING THE RIGHT PRAYERS

"I said it would be six minutes of hell and in this case we said the right
prayers and got up to heaven," Ed Weiler, NASA associate administrator,
said.

To arrive intact on the planet's surface, the spacecraft had to deploy a
parachute, jettison its heat shield, and fire retro rockets. The final drop
of about four stories was cushioned by giant airbags, which allowed the
lander to bounce across the bleak Martian landscape for up to half a mile
before coming to rest inside the giant Gusev crater.

Inside the lander is the Spirit rover, a golf-cart sized mobile geology
laboratory that will study the rocks and soil on Mars for evidence of water
and past or present life.

Earlier, optimistic scientists from the space agency said their craft
appeared to be hurtling toward a "bulls-eye" touch-down.

The scientists had made final adjustments to the parachute deployment to
accommodate a dust storm blowing on Mars, but found themselves on such a
perfect course that they could scrap more navigation maneuvers.

Project managers picked Gusev, an impact crater bigger than the U.S. state
of Connecticut, in part because they believed it may have once held a lake.

A second rover, nicknamed Opportunity, is expected to land on the other side
of the red planet in three weeks.





From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan  4 14:59:28 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Mars
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOENCDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOENCDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <449112704.1073249968@[192.168.200.4]>


> U.S. Rover Lands on Mars After Daring Plunge
> Sun January 04, 2004 01:40 AM ET

Also of note: Voyager is crossing the heliopause. There'll
be far fewer corks popped for it but this is a testament
to engineering (10+ years, 16Bmi, and a few Krads later).


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan  4 19:36:11 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Voyager
Message-ID: <608932704.1073266571@[192.168.200.4]>


Interesting thing to think about is how well their
software has held up for this long: how many programs
have any of us written that run properly for 26 years?

<http://www.sciencenews.org/20040103/bob8.asp>

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From ehs at pobox.com  Sun Jan  4 21:08:47 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] re: Mars
Message-ID: <20040105030847.GA19462@chloe.inkdroid.org>

NOVA played tonite on Channel 11 with an episode all about the Mars lander.
They must have an in with NASA because it included up to the minute footage
from the landing. It will replay on Tuesday at 8PM with more updated footage
including panoramas from the surface.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/mars/

//Ed


From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Mon Jan  5 15:29:22 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:27:59 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Mars
In-Reply-To: <20040105030847.GA19462@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIGENLDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=vxworks+mars+probe+20
+mhz+powerpc+&spell=1

Learned in class today that Spirit and presumeably, Opportunity run VxWorks
on a 20MhZ PPC.



-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Ed Summers
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 9:09 PM
To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Subject: [Chicago-talk] re: Mars


NOVA played tonite on Channel 11 with an episode all about the Mars lander.
They must have an in with NASA because it included up to the minute footage
from the landing. It will replay on Tuesday at 8PM with more updated footage
including panoramas from the surface.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/mars/

//Ed

_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From jt at plainblack.com  Mon Jan  5 18:32:10 2004
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Wireless Access
Message-ID: <web-726424@plainblack.com>

I've set up wireless access for the next meeting.

JT ~ Plain Black

Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. 

From andy at petdance.com  Mon Jan  5 22:39:46 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tech meeting TUESDAY
Message-ID: <20040106043946.GA1267@petdance.com>

Tuesday, January 6th, at 7pm, I'll be presenting a talk on how to build
a CPAN module.  See http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/ for details on how
to get there.

As part of the talk, I'll be building an actual CPAN distribution from
the ground up.  If YOU have a module that you've wanted to distribute,
but didn't know how to do it, please email ASAP and let me know details.

Also, we'll be giving away a copy of Sam Tregar's book "Writing Perl
Modules For CPAN", published by Apress, as well as some other goodies.

I hope to see you there!

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Tue Jan  6 07:07:49 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tech meeting TUESDAY
In-Reply-To: <20040106043946.GA1267@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMENPDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

Is there an online repository of the lecture?

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Andy Lester
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:40 PM
To: chicago-announce@mail.pm.org; chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tech meeting TUESDAY


Tuesday, January 6th, at 7pm, I'll be presenting a talk on how to build
a CPAN module.  See http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/ for details on how
to get there.

As part of the talk, I'll be building an actual CPAN distribution from
the ground up.  If YOU have a module that you've wanted to distribute,
but didn't know how to do it, please email ASAP and let me know details.

Also, we'll be giving away a copy of Sam Tregar's book "Writing Perl
Modules For CPAN", published by Apress, as well as some other goodies.

I hope to see you there!

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jan  6 07:57:30 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tech meeting TUESDAY
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMENPDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <20040106043946.GA1267@petdance.com>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMENPDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <20040106135730.GA2378@petdance.com>

> Is there an online repository of the lecture?

Not yet, but we almost always put up our slides.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Tue Jan  6 12:58:25 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] ItemId
In-Reply-To: <20040106135730.GA2378@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEODDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

I'm trying to get multiple Item ID numbers from a completed eBay search
page.

I've tried a similar method using Java. In both instances I can only scrape
one id from the page instead of all of them. I thought of using a while loop
(commented out below) that continues until the regex returns false. I went
through the hassle of logging in, fllowing the search link and then the
advanced search link and submitting the search rather than linking to the
completed search directly.

Any ideas?



#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w

use strict;
use warnings;
use FindBin::libs;
use WWW::Mechanize;
use LWP::UserAgent;
use HTTP::Request;
use HTTP::Response;
use URI::Heuristic;

my $url;
my $ua;
my $req;
my $response;
my $content;
my $title;

my $sec;
my $min;
my $hour;
my $mday;
my $mon;
my $year;
my $wday;
my $yday;
my $isdst;
my $realmonth;
my $realday;
my $realyear;
($sec, $min, $hour, $mday, $mon, $year, $wday, $yday, $isdst) =
localtime(time);
$realmonth = $mon + 1;
$realday = $mday - 1;
$realyear = $year + 1900;

my $user    = 'username';
my $pass    = 'password';
# my $message = 'Testing...';

my $a = WWW::Mechanize->new();
#$a->get('http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&rfisa
ctive=1&region=0&max
recordsperpage=50&from=R14&query=canon+digital+camera+-battery+-case+-cable+
-card+-memory+-camco
rder&ht=1&completedonly=1');
$a->get('http://signin.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?SignIn&UsingSSL=0&pUser
Id=aneyusor&ru=http%
3A%2F%2Fcgi1.ebay.com%2Faw-cgi%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayLogin&pp=pass&pageTyp
e=174&i1=0');

$a->submit_form(
   form_number => 2,
   fields => {
      userid   => $user,
      pass => $pass,
   },
);

print "logged in!\n";

$a->follow_link('http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/basicsearch.html?ssPageN
ame=h:h:fitem:US');
print "Moved to Search page!\n";

$a->follow_link('http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/search_adv.html');
print "Moved to Advanced Search page!\n";


my $littlesearch = $a->submit_form(
   form_number => 1,
   fields => {
      ht => '1',
      query => 'canon digital camera',
#      exclude => 'battery case cable card memory camcorder',
#      completedOnly => '1',
#      maxRecordsPerPage => '100',
   },
);


#print "submitted search!\n";


##########

$url =
URI::Heuristic::uf_urlstr("http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dl
l?GetResult&r
fisactive=1&region=0&maxrecordsperpage=50&from=R14&query=canon+digital+camer
a+-battery+-case+-ca
ble+-card+-memory+-camcorder&ht=1&completedonly=1");
#$| = 1;

#$ua = LWP::UserAgent->new();
#$ua->agent("Mozilla/v5.0");
#$req = HTTP::Request->new(GET => $url);
#$req->referer("http://localhost.localdomain");

#$a->get('http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&rfisa
ctive=1&region=0&max
recordsperpage=100&from=R14&query=canon+digital+camera+-battery+-case+-cable
+-card+-memory+-camc
order&ht=1&completedonly=1');
#$a->get($url);

print "\nGetting url...\n";

#$response = $a->request($req);
#$response = $a->get($url);
$response = $littlesearch;
if ($response->is_error())
{
        printf "%s\n", $response->status_line;
}
else
{
        $title = $response->title();
        $content = $response->content();

        open(NETDATA, ">>netdata.txt");

        printf "\nFrom: %s\n", $title;
        print NETDATA "\n";

        printf NETDATA "%02d/%02d/%04d, %02d:%02d:%02d CST\n",
$realmonth,$mday,$realyear,$hour,
$min,$sec;
        print "\n";

#  while($content != <>){
        print NETDATA "ITEM ID : ";
        #print NETDATA $content =~
m/ViewItem&amp;item=(.*?)&amp;category=/s;
        print NETDATA $content =~ m/ViewItem&amp;item=(\d*)&amp;category=/s;
        print NETDATA "\n";
#  }


        close(NETDATA);

}


print "\n";
print "\nDone! Exiting.\n";
exit;



From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jan  6 14:44:39 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] ItemId
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEODDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <20040106135730.GA2378@petdance.com>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEODDFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <20040106204439.GA21491@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 12:58:25PM -0600, petemar1 wrote:
> Any ideas?

Have you looked at WWW::Search::Ebay [1]?

    #!/usr/bin/perl

    use WWW::Search;
    my $search = new WWW::Search('Ebay');

    my $query = WWW::Search::escape_query("digital camera");
    $search->native_query( $query );

    while ( my $result = $search->next_result() ) {
	my ( $item, $bids, $bid ) = split/; /, $result->description();
	print "$item\n";
    }

//Ed

[1] http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?WWW::Search::Ebay

> 
> 
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
> 
> use strict;
> use warnings;
> use FindBin::libs;
> use WWW::Mechanize;
> use LWP::UserAgent;
> use HTTP::Request;
> use HTTP::Response;
> use URI::Heuristic;
> 
> my $url;
> my $ua;
> my $req;
> my $response;
> my $content;
> my $title;
> 
> my $sec;
> my $min;
> my $hour;
> my $mday;
> my $mon;
> my $year;
> my $wday;
> my $yday;
> my $isdst;
> my $realmonth;
> my $realday;
> my $realyear;
> ($sec, $min, $hour, $mday, $mon, $year, $wday, $yday, $isdst) =
> localtime(time);
> $realmonth = $mon + 1;
> $realday = $mday - 1;
> $realyear = $year + 1900;
> 
> my $user    = 'username';
> my $pass    = 'password';
> # my $message = 'Testing...';
> 
> my $a = WWW::Mechanize->new();
> #$a->get('http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&rfisa
> ctive=1&region=0&max
> recordsperpage=50&from=R14&query=canon+digital+camera+-battery+-case+-cable+
> -card+-memory+-camco
> rder&ht=1&completedonly=1');
> $a->get('http://signin.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?SignIn&UsingSSL=0&pUser
> Id=aneyusor&ru=http%
> 3A%2F%2Fcgi1.ebay.com%2Faw-cgi%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayLogin&pp=pass&pageTyp
> e=174&i1=0');
> 
> $a->submit_form(
>    form_number => 2,
>    fields => {
>       userid   => $user,
>       pass => $pass,
>    },
> );
> 
> print "logged in!\n";
> 
> $a->follow_link('http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/basicsearch.html?ssPageN
> ame=h:h:fitem:US');
> print "Moved to Search page!\n";
> 
> $a->follow_link('http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/search_adv.html');
> print "Moved to Advanced Search page!\n";
> 
> 
> my $littlesearch = $a->submit_form(
>    form_number => 1,
>    fields => {
>       ht => '1',
>       query => 'canon digital camera',
> #      exclude => 'battery case cable card memory camcorder',
> #      completedOnly => '1',
> #      maxRecordsPerPage => '100',
>    },
> );
> 
> 
> #print "submitted search!\n";
> 
> 
> ##########
> 
> $url =
> URI::Heuristic::uf_urlstr("http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dl
> l?GetResult&r
> fisactive=1&region=0&maxrecordsperpage=50&from=R14&query=canon+digital+camer
> a+-battery+-case+-ca
> ble+-card+-memory+-camcorder&ht=1&completedonly=1");
> #$| = 1;
> 
> #$ua = LWP::UserAgent->new();
> #$ua->agent("Mozilla/v5.0");
> #$req = HTTP::Request->new(GET => $url);
> #$req->referer("http://localhost.localdomain");
> 
> #$a->get('http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&rfisa
> ctive=1&region=0&max
> recordsperpage=100&from=R14&query=canon+digital+camera+-battery+-case+-cable
> +-card+-memory+-camc
> order&ht=1&completedonly=1');
> #$a->get($url);
> 
> print "\nGetting url...\n";
> 
> #$response = $a->request($req);
> #$response = $a->get($url);
> $response = $littlesearch;
> if ($response->is_error())
> {
>         printf "%s\n", $response->status_line;
> }
> else
> {
>         $title = $response->title();
>         $content = $response->content();
> 
>         open(NETDATA, ">>netdata.txt");
> 
>         printf "\nFrom: %s\n", $title;
>         print NETDATA "\n";
> 
>         printf NETDATA "%02d/%02d/%04d, %02d:%02d:%02d CST\n",
> $realmonth,$mday,$realyear,$hour,
> $min,$sec;
>         print "\n";
> 
> #  while($content != <>){
>         print NETDATA "ITEM ID : ";
>         #print NETDATA $content =~
> m/ViewItem&amp;item=(.*?)&amp;category=/s;
>         print NETDATA $content =~ m/ViewItem&amp;item=(\d*)&amp;category=/s;
>         print NETDATA "\n";
> #  }
> 
> 
>         close(NETDATA);
> 
> }
> 
> 
> print "\n";
> print "\nDone! Exiting.\n";
> exit;
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 

-- 
Ed Summers
aim: inkdroid
web: http://www.inkdroid.org

I wish to God these calculations had been executed by steam! [Charles Babbage]



From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jan  6 15:49:14 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
Message-ID: <20040106214914.GA3593@petdance.com>


Tech meeting is still on tonight.  Maybe we'll have a bonfire in the pit
to keep warm.  As long as we don't set the pool table alight, right, JT?

I just talked to a guy looking for Perl programmers in Northbrook, and
he said he'd be coming by.  Those of you lookin' may want to make a trip
tonight...

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Tue Jan  6 15:51:39 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B3F@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

anyone driving from the Wheaton area?

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Andy Lester
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 3:49 PM
To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT



Tech meeting is still on tonight.  Maybe we'll have a bonfire in the pit
to keep warm.  As long as we don't set the pool table alight, right, JT?

I just talked to a guy looking for Perl programmers in Northbrook, and
he said he'd be coming by.  Those of you lookin' may want to make a trip
tonight...

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From jt at plainblack.com  Tue Jan  6 17:22:53 2004
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
In-Reply-To: <20040106214914.GA3593@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <web-728304@plainblack.com>

>Tech meeting is still on tonight.  Maybe we'll have a bonfire in the pit
>to keep warm.  As long as we don't set the pool table alight, right, JT?

I guess that depends on how cold it gets. If it's super cold, we might light that up 
too!

JT ~ Plain Black

Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. 

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Tue Jan  6 17:42:24 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
In-Reply-To: <web-728304@plainblack.com>
References: <web-728304@plainblack.com>
Message-ID: <863cas4pb6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "JT" == JT Smith <jt@plainblack.com> writes:

>> Tech meeting is still on tonight.  Maybe we'll have a bonfire in the pit
>> to keep warm.  As long as we don't set the pool table alight, right, JT?

JT> I guess that depends on how cold it gets. If it's super cold, we might
JT> light that up too!

Be thankful you're not in a city that shuts down for six inches of snow.
We're at a standstill here.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From shild at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan  6 18:47:13 2004
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B3F@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20040106184713.shild@sbcglobal.net>


I was, but I just got home from work...maybe next month...

On 06-Jan-2004 Dooley, Michael wrote:
> anyone driving from the Wheaton area?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
> [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Andy Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 3:49 PM
> To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
> 
> 
> 
> Tech meeting is still on tonight.  Maybe we'll have a bonfire in the pit
> to keep warm.  As long as we don't set the pool table alight, right, JT?
> 
> I just talked to a guy looking for Perl programmers in Northbrook, and
> he said he'd be coming by.  Those of you lookin' may want to make a trip
> tonight...
> 
> xoa
> 
> -- 
> Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Scott T. Hildreth <shild@sbcglobal.net>
Date: 06-Jan-2004
Time: 18:46:31
----------------------------------

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jan  6 23:27:12 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Acme::PM::Chicago
Message-ID: <20040107052712.GA4291@petdance.com>

Our new module is already on search.cpan.org:
http://search.cpan.org/dist/Acme-PM-Chicago/

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jan  6 23:48:29 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] We're famous, I guess...
Message-ID: <1797512704.1073454509@[192.168.200.4]>


<http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/Acme-PM-Chicago-0.01/>

Suggested modification:

 - You forgot to use map anywhere.
 - We normally need more than one name.
 - We usually have more people than books.

 therefore:

	# return a list of names in random order

	sub random_name
	{
		map { $_->[-1] }
		sort { $a->[0] <=> $b->[0] }
		map { [ rand, $_ ] }
		@_
	}	

=head1 EXAMPLE

	use Acme::PM::Chicago;

	my $num_books = shift or die "No books, no winners...\n";
	my @namz = <ARGV> or die "No names, no winners...\n";

	# leave the newlines on @namz for the output

	print "The winners are:\n", (random_name @namz)[0..$num_books-1];



--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jan  6 23:51:28 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
In-Reply-To: <863cas4pb6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <web-728304@plainblack.com> <863cas4pb6.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <1800922704.1073454688@[192.168.200.4]>


> Be thankful you're not in a city that shuts down for six inches of snow.
> We're at a standstill here.

Be thankful you're not in a city that gets 6+ inches of
snow often enough to ignore it :-)

That or feel free to stop by Chi-town this week...

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jan  6 23:49:31 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] We're famous, I guess...
In-Reply-To: <1797512704.1073454509@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <1797512704.1073454509@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040107054931.GB4325@petdance.com>

> <http://search.cpan.org/~petdance/Acme-PM-Chicago-0.01/>

For those who weren't at the meeting, the 2nd half of my talk about
creating a CPAN module included actually creating a CPAN module, from
absolutely nothing, to uploading to the CPAN for distribution to the
world.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Wed Jan  7 14:30:24 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: apache 
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B41@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

/usr/local/apache/htdocs = documentroot

I need access all the subdirectorys and files in:

/files/are_here

does anyone happen to know the directives I can use to set this up.
I cant change documentroot.
and I would rather not make a link from documentroot -> /files/are_here

mike

From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Wed Jan  7 14:46:57 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: apache 
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786968@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

i believe you can do something like

Alias /files /files/are_here

and then you can

http://my.server.org/files


Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dooley, Michael [mailto:Dooley.Michael@con-way.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: Chicago.pm chatter
> Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: apache 
> 
> 
> /usr/local/apache/htdocs = documentroot
> 
> I need access all the subdirectorys and files in:
> 
> /files/are_here
> 
> does anyone happen to know the directives I can use to set this up.
> I cant change documentroot.
> and I would rather not make a link from documentroot -> 
> /files/are_here
> 
> mike
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

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From shawn at owbn.org  Wed Jan  7 14:31:40 2004
From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: apache
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B41@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.c
	om>
References: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B41@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <22307.65.248.243.100.1073507500.squirrel@mail.owbn.org>

Off the top of my head:

Within httpd.conf
Alias /mydocs /files/are_here

Dooley, Michael said:
> /usr/local/apache/htdocs = documentroot
>
> I need access all the subdirectorys and files in:
>
> /files/are_here
>
> does anyone happen to know the directives I can use to set this up.
> I cant change documentroot.
> and I would rather not make a link from documentroot -> /files/are_here
>
> mike
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


-- 
Shawn Carroll
shawn@owbn.org
Perl Programmer
Soccer Referee

From briank at kappacs.com  Wed Jan  7 19:23:09 2004
From: briank at kappacs.com (Brian Katzung)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] tech meeting TONIGHT
In-Reply-To: <20040106214914.GA3593@petdance.com>
References: <20040106214914.GA3593@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <3FFCB0FD.6040301@kappacs.com>

Andy Lester wrote:
> Tech meeting is still on tonight.  Maybe we'll have a bonfire in the pit
> to keep warm.  As long as we don't set the pool table alight, right, JT?
> 
> I just talked to a guy looking for Perl programmers in Northbrook, and
> he said he'd be coming by.  Those of you lookin' may want to make a trip
> tonight...
> 
> xoa

I wish I could have attended, but I'm still getting over a very bad 
cold. I'm looking forward to the slides, and details on the RFPPIN would 
be appreciated too.

Regards,

-- 
Brian Katzung, President, Kappa Computer Solutions, LLC
Phone +1.877.367.8837 or visit http://www.kappacs.com/


From shawn at owbn.org  Fri Jan  9 12:23:13 2004
From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The weather
Message-ID: <15468.65.248.243.100.1073672593.squirrel@mail.owbn.org>


Harkening back to the weather thread from earlier...

I was looking out the window and noticed it was snowing.  My first thought
was:
'Whew, it's warmed up enough to snow.'

Damn, I need tickets to the Caribean soon.

--shawn

-- 
Shawn Carroll
shawn@owbn.org
Perl Programmer
Soccer Referee

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Fri Jan  9 12:49:19 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The weather
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B49@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

you have windows?  <sigh>


-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Shawn C Carroll
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 12:23 PM
To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The weather



Harkening back to the weather thread from earlier...

I was looking out the window and noticed it was snowing.  My first thought
was:
'Whew, it's warmed up enough to snow.'

Damn, I need tickets to the Caribean soon.

--shawn

-- 
Shawn Carroll
shawn@owbn.org
Perl Programmer
Soccer Referee
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Jan  9 15:23:29 2004
From: pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Patrick Fleury)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The weather
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B49@qgats001.conway.pro
	d.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040109132244.00a7e1a8@128.135.32.3>

At 10:49 AM 1/9/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>you have windows?  <sigh>
>

Hmm.  I thought we didn't like windows here.

--PatF


From ehs at pobox.com  Fri Jan  9 13:59:01 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The weather
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040109132244.00a7e1a8@128.135.32.3>
References: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51B49@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20040109132244.00a7e1a8@128.135.32.3>
Message-ID: <20040109195901.GA7914@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Fri, Jan 09, 2004 at 01:23:29PM -0800, Patrick Fleury wrote:
> Hmm.  I thought we didn't like windows here.

See ActiveState [1], or cygwin [2]. As for snow, it's nice and fluffy
and makes the fields look pretty :)

//Ed

[1] http://www.activestate.com
[2] http://www.cygwin.com

From ejanev2 at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  9 15:55:31 2004
From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] The weather
In-Reply-To: <20040109195901.GA7914@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <20040109215531.24791.qmail@web60910.mail.yahoo.com>

 
> See ActiveState [1], or cygwin [2]. As for snow, it's nice and fluffy
> and makes the fields look pretty :)
> 
> //Ed
> 
> [1] http://www.activestate.com
> [2] http://www.cygwin.com


Windows on a desktop with ActiveState or/and cygwin is much better than Windows without them.
Especially when you don't have choice for the Operating System :-)
It's much more usable, for me.

And of course, it was a time for having this weather.

Cheers,
Emil


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sat Jan 10 13:34:40 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance
In-Reply-To: <20040109215531.24791.qmail@web60910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOICEPODFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

Given the following 2 separate files:


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# BaseClass.pm

package BaseClass;

require BaseClass;

use strict;
use warnings;

{

    sub new {
        # my ($classname, @args) = @_;

        # my ($classname, @args) = shift;

        my $classname = shift;

        my $self = bless{}, $classname;

        return $self;
    }

    sub doTheThing() {
        print"\n yes \n";
    }
}



#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# DerivedClass.pl

package DerivedClass;

use strict;
use warnings;
# use base qw( BaseClass );
use lib qw( /home/petemar1/my_code/my_perl/ooperl/ooptest/BaseClass );

@MyApp::ISA = qw( BaseClass );
{

    $theDoer = BaseClass->new();

    # $theDoer = new BaseClass;

    # $theDoer->doTheThing();
}



What does the following error mean?

% perl DerivedClass.pl
Global symbol "$theDoer" requires explicit package name at DerivedClass.pl
line 14.
Execution of DerivedClass.pl aborted due to compilation errors.


From don at drakeconsult.com  Sat Jan 10 13:41:34 2004
From: don at drakeconsult.com (Don Drake)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOICEPODFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <014701c3d7b1$c23592e0$2100000a@attbi.com>

This is not an inheritance problem, rather you have "use strict;" in your
code and you
don't declare $theDoer with my.

Change the line to this:
my  $theDoer = BaseClass->new();

And you're in business!

-Don

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of petemar1
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:35 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance


Given the following 2 separate files:


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# BaseClass.pm

package BaseClass;

require BaseClass;

use strict;
use warnings;

{

    sub new {
        # my ($classname, @args) = @_;

        # my ($classname, @args) = shift;

        my $classname = shift;

        my $self = bless{}, $classname;

        return $self;
    }

    sub doTheThing() {
        print"\n yes \n";
    }
}



#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# DerivedClass.pl

package DerivedClass;

use strict;
use warnings;
# use base qw( BaseClass );
use lib qw( /home/petemar1/my_code/my_perl/ooperl/ooptest/BaseClass );

@MyApp::ISA = qw( BaseClass );
{

    $theDoer = BaseClass->new();

    # $theDoer = new BaseClass;

    # $theDoer->doTheThing();
}



What does the following error mean?

% perl DerivedClass.pl
Global symbol "$theDoer" requires explicit package name at DerivedClass.pl
line 14.
Execution of DerivedClass.pl aborted due to compilation errors.

_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sat Jan 10 14:19:19 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance
In-Reply-To: <014701c3d7b1$c23592e0$2100000a@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEPODFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

...and I needed a "1;" at the end of BaseClass.pm

...and I needed to change a line in DerivedClass.pl from

    use lib qw( /home/petemar1/my_code/my_perl/ooperl/ooptest/BaseClass );

to

    use BaseClass

.

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Don Drake
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:42 PM
To: 'Chicago.pm chatter'
Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance


This is not an inheritance problem, rather you have "use strict;" in your
code and you
don't declare $theDoer with my.

Change the line to this:
my  $theDoer = BaseClass->new();

And you're in business!

-Don

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of petemar1
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:35 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance


Given the following 2 separate files:


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# BaseClass.pm

package BaseClass;

require BaseClass;

use strict;
use warnings;

{

    sub new {
        # my ($classname, @args) = @_;

        # my ($classname, @args) = shift;

        my $classname = shift;

        my $self = bless{}, $classname;

        return $self;
    }

    sub doTheThing() {
        print"\n yes \n";
    }
}



#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
# DerivedClass.pl

package DerivedClass;

use strict;
use warnings;
# use base qw( BaseClass );
use lib qw( /home/petemar1/my_code/my_perl/ooperl/ooptest/BaseClass );

@MyApp::ISA = qw( BaseClass );
{

    $theDoer = BaseClass->new();

    # $theDoer = new BaseClass;

    # $theDoer->doTheThing();
}



What does the following error mean?

% perl DerivedClass.pl
Global symbol "$theDoer" requires explicit package name at DerivedClass.pl
line 14.
Execution of DerivedClass.pl aborted due to compilation errors.

_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jan 10 22:25:57 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOICEPODFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOICEPODFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <39620000.1073795157@[192.168.200.4]>


># !/usr/local/bin/perl -w
># DerivedClass.pl
>
> package DerivedClass;
>
> use strict;
> use warnings;
># use base qw( BaseClass );
> use lib qw( /home/petemar1/my_code/my_perl/ooperl/ooptest/BaseClass );
>
> @MyApp::ISA = qw( BaseClass );
> {
>
>     $theDoer = BaseClass->new();
>
>     # $theDoer = new BaseClass;
>
>     # $theDoer->doTheThing();
> }
>
>
>
> What does the following error mean?
>
> % perl DerivedClass.pl
> Global symbol "$theDoer" requires explicit package name at DerivedClass.pl
> line 14.
> Execution of DerivedClass.pl aborted due to compilation errors.

You have to put a package name on the globals. The
variable isn't lexical (i.e., my $thingy) so you have
to put a package name on it if you use strict.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jan 10 22:27:09 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Inheritance
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEPODFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEPODFAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <40690000.1073795229@[192.168.200.4]>



-- petemar1 <petemar1@perlmonk.org>

> ...and I needed a "1;" at the end of BaseClass.pm

Actually 42, "42", or 69 will do: anything that isn't false :-)

>     use BaseClass

Usually a better way.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 11 11:04:31 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Even more free books
Message-ID: <20040111170431.GB6225@petdance.com>

I've been cleaning out my shelves, so have some books to give away.
They may be highlighted, and/or have my name on them somewhere.  Anything
that doesn't get taken is goin' to the Friends Of The Library Book Sale.

Teach Yourself Project 98
Managing Projects with Microsoft Project 98
Writers Market 2000
Running qmail
The qmail Handbook
Practical Guide to SGML/XML Filters
BSD Sockets Programming From a Multi-Language Perspective
Unix Network Programming: The Sockets Networking API, Third Edition,
Volume 1.  It's a draft manuscript, but I'm assuming it's no different
than the "real" book.

If you want any of 'em, they're yours for $4 each, which is the cost
for me to mail one to you.  Yes, I have to mail them to you, because I
don't want to have 'em sitting around until next month's PM meeting.

First come, first served.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From shild at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 11 11:24:33 2004
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl CookBook 2nd Edition Review
Message-ID: <XFMail.20040111112433.shild@sbcglobal.net>

Book Title : Perl Cookbook, 2nd Edition
Authors    : Tom Christiansen & Nathan Torkington
Publisher  : O'Reilly
Pages      : 964
Website    : http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlckbk2
Reviewer   : Scott T. Hildreth

Table of 
Contents   : http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlckbk2/toc.html

Review :    Let me start out by saying that I was very excited to review this
          book.  At the same time I was a little overwhelmed.  How much detail
          do I go into, the book is so packed full of information and examples.
          What can I write about a book that most the Perl community, if not all,
          considers a vaulable resource for Perl programmers.  I decided I will
          just add my "2cents" to the stack of good reviews I have seen.

            If you have the 1st Edition, buy the 2nd Edition.  If you don't own a
          copy of the Perl Cookbook, buy one.  This book is, as I stated earlier, 
          packed full of valuable information and examples.  The 2nd editon gives
          the reader all the problem/solutions of the 1st edition and much more.
          The 2nd edition has updated recipes as well as new ones, which use newer 
          modules that have come into existence since the 1st edition was written.  
          Html::Mason, Template Toolkit, and POE are just a few of the newer modules 
          that are used in recipes.  The 2nd edition of the Perl Cookbook also includes
          2 new chapters.  One chapter covers processing XML and the other new chapter
          covers  mod_perl.  As the "What's New in This Edition" section states, 
          "The book you're holding is thicker than its previous edition of five years
          ago---about 200 pages thicker."  These additonal pages aren't filler!

            The Perl Cookbook 2nd edition is a must buy for the beginner to advance 
          Perl programmer alike.  If you have a problem, the Cookbook can give you a
          solution or at least point you in the right direction.  Sometimes I like to 
          just open the book to a random recipe and learn about a new module or see a
          different aproach to tackling a problem, TMTOWTDI.  My only complaint is that
          there is not a chapter on using parsers/tokenizers, such as Parse::RecDescent 
          and Parse::Yapp.  Although that topic should be a book in itself.  Yet, this 
          does not prevent me from giving it a full set of stars or whatever the rating 
          system may be.     


------------------------
E-Mail: Scott T. Hildreth <shild@sbcglobal.net>
Date: 10-Jan-2004
Time: 14:55:49
----------------------------------

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 11 20:23:42 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl CookBook 2nd Edition Review
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20040111112433.shild@sbcglobal.net>
References: <XFMail.20040111112433.shild@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <102140000.1073874222@[192.168.200.4]>



-- "Scott T. Hildreth" <shild@sbcglobal.net>

> Book Title : Perl Cookbook, 2nd Edition
> Authors    : Tom Christiansen & Nathan Torkington

We should forward this to Gnat, he'll probably send
you an autographed copy :-)


Q: Anyone else interested in showing up to the Perl
Conference this year? They give group discounts and
it'd be nice to try and organize this early enough
to get cheap airfare, etc.

The Chicago group is spread out enough that we could
probably get enough of us from SOMEwhere to get the
group discounts...

enjoi

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 11 23:37:12 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Iain Truskett in memoriam
Message-ID: <20040112053712.GA7308@petdance.com>

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4163

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From ehs at pobox.com  Mon Jan 12 09:54:29 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSCON/YAPC, was: Perl CookBook 2nd Edition Review
In-Reply-To: <102140000.1073874222@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <XFMail.20040111112433.shild@sbcglobal.net>
	<102140000.1073874222@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040112155429.GB31204@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Sun, Jan 11, 2004 at 08:23:42PM -0600, Steven Lembark wrote:
> Q: Anyone else interested in showing up to the Perl
> Conference this year? They give group discounts and
> it'd be nice to try and organize this early enough
> to get cheap airfare, etc.

That's a good idea Steven. While I'm not planning on going to TPC (aka The Open
Source Convention (OSCON) [1]) I was planning on attending YAPC [2] next year.
At YAPC you get alot of the same quality Perl talks over 3 days, for less than 
$100. Last year many of the same Perl folks who were giving talks at OSCON
were presenting at YAPC as well. It's a nice alternative for those that can't
spend more. Funny, just noticed that YAPC just released the first call 
for participation [3].

Jason and I have talked about carpooling it out to Buffalo for YAPC, and it 
would be cool if other people wanted to come. I've never been to OSCON, so I 
can't compare, but YAPC is a grassroots thing, and apart from being a good 
place to learn new things, it's also a good place to meet smart people, and do 
a bit of hacking.

//Ed

[1] http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2004/
[2] http://www.yapc.org/America/
[3] http://yapc.org/America/cfp.shtml


From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Mon Jan 12 10:58:16 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSCON/YAPC, was: Perl CookBook 2nd Edition Review
In-Reply-To: <20040112155429.GB31204@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <OFA7AA9BAD.8A8B2CD7-ON86256E19.005D3053-86256E19.005D3171@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

When's YAPC - I have friends in Buffalo I can stay w/ so ...

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use 
regular expressions." Now they have two problems  -- Jamie Zawinski

From ehs at pobox.com  Mon Jan 12 11:16:05 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSCON/YAPC, was: Perl CookBook 2nd Edition Review
In-Reply-To: <OFA7AA9BAD.8A8B2CD7-ON86256E19.005D3053-86256E19.005D3171@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
References: <20040112155429.GB31204@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<OFA7AA9BAD.8A8B2CD7-ON86256E19.005D3053-86256E19.005D3171@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
Message-ID: <20040112171605.GC31204@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 10:58:16AM -0600, Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote:
> When's YAPC - I have friends in Buffalo I can stay w/ so ...

June 16-18 at the University of Buffalo. More info here [1]. Would you go
along the north shore of Lake Michigan, or along the south? :-)

//Ed

[1] http://yapc.org/America/index.shtml 
> 
> a
> 
> Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
> Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
> VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030
> 
> Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use 
> regular expressions." Now they have two problems  -- Jamie Zawinski
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 

-- 
Ed Summers
aim: inkdroid
web: http://www.inkdroid.org

I wish to God these calculations had been executed by steam! [Charles Babbage]



From ehs at pobox.com  Mon Jan 12 18:14:27 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] 2004 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Planning Survey
Message-ID: <20040113001427.GC9149@chloe.inkdroid.org>

Since we're on the topic of OSCON, here's a way to possibly win a pass.

//Ed

----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee@oreilly.com> -----

Delivered-To: ed@inkdroid.org
Delivered-To: ehs@pobox.com
From: Marsee Henon <marsee@oreilly.com>
To: ehs@pobox.com
Subject: 2004 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Planning Survey
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:54:04 -0800
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-usergroups-2833932K@newsletter.oreilly.com>

Hello Open Source Enthusiast--

The O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON) will be held July 26-30, 2004
at the Portland Marriott Downtown in Portland, OR. But in the meantime, 
we need your help in refining our program. We have a special survey we 
are passing around and if you include your email address you will be 
entered to win one of two free passes to OSCON.
All entries must be submitted by Monday, February 9th.

To fill out the survey, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/survey/oscon04_planning/oscon04_planning_1.htm

For more information on the O'Reilly Open Source Convention, go to:
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/


We are still accepting proposals for OSCON 2004 until February 9th:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/create/e_sess


Please feel free to pass this email along to anyone who is interested!

Thanks for your help,

Marsee

From ejanev2 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 13 11:35:37 2004
From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
Message-ID: <20040113173537.88400.qmail@web60906.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Guys,

Is there any Perl module for reading information from Outlook's *.pst files.
I don't have any expirience about this meter.

My colleague is having problems with Outlook. The problems started with having "Outlook.pst"
file reaching 1.8 GB.

My taught was as a last resort, if there is any posibility to extract the information ( even
limited ) from those *.pst files using some Perl Module. I took a quick look at CPAN, but I
couldnt recognize anything.

I tried something like "Outlook Recovery" Demo, but the result wasn't usable ( it was causing
problems when tried to be imported in Outlook ).

I tried also "ForMorph" demo. It imported some messages, limited to 500 KB, and without
attachments.

I personally use Outlook Express, and haven't had any problem with it yet.

Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance,
Emil


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jan 13 11:42:20 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
In-Reply-To: <20040113173537.88400.qmail@web60906.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040113173537.88400.qmail@web60906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040113174220.GA11260@petdance.com>

> My colleague is having problems with Outlook. The problems started with having "Outlook.pst"
> file reaching 1.8 GB.
> 
> My taught was as a last resort, if there is any posibility to extract the information ( even
> limited ) from those *.pst files using some Perl Module. I took a quick look at CPAN, but I
> couldnt recognize anything.

There's a C library out there for extracting stuff, but I don't know how
well it works.

I would suggest you go thru the Win32::OLE automation and extract the
data that way.


xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Tue Jan 13 12:05:37 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786B14@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

not sure what you have going

but

http://freshmeat.net/projects/outlook_text_to_mbox/

looks like it might work...

...let me know if you use it, i'm trying to work something like this out
on my own as well to try and keep my addressbook updated between outlook
and mutt, and might look into something like this later if it works

also, if anyone has any information on vcard readers

so far, Text::vCard seems incomplete, and libvformat seems like it would
work, but their documentation is sketchy and so i'm looking for
something a little better documented or in C++ before I commit to
libvformat (plus, i seem to have another issue with it that i won't go
into on a Perl list)

Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emil Janev [mailto:ejanev2@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 11:36 AM
> To: Chicago.pm
> Subject: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
> 
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> Is there any Perl module for reading information from 
> Outlook's *.pst files.
> I don't have any expirience about this meter.
> 
> My colleague is having problems with Outlook. The problems 
> started with having "Outlook.pst"
> file reaching 1.8 GB.
> 
> My taught was as a last resort, if there is any posibility to 
> extract the information ( even
> limited ) from those *.pst files using some Perl Module. I 
> took a quick look at CPAN, but I
> couldnt recognize anything.
> 
> I tried something like "Outlook Recovery" Demo, but the 
> result wasn't usable ( it was causing
> problems when tried to be imported in Outlook ).
> 
> I tried also "ForMorph" demo. It imported some messages, 
> limited to 500 KB, and without
> attachments.
> 
> I personally use Outlook Express, and haven't had any problem 
> with it yet.
> 
> Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance,
> Emil
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

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From jhubble at core.com  Tue Jan 13 12:10:27 2004
From: jhubble at core.com (Jeremy Hubble)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
Message-ID: <200401131810.i0DIAU7l003264@mail3.mx.voyager.net>

Mozilla has an Outlook import feature that is fairly reliable.  (Though
I have only used it with a 100 Meg PST)  You could probably dig through
the source tree to see its guts.  (And if you're really in the mood,
create a perl module!)

Jeremy

> Hi Guys,
> 
> Is there any Perl module for reading information from Outlook's *.pst
files.
> I don't have any expirience about this meter.
> 
> My colleague is having problems with Outlook. The problems started
with having "Outlook.pst"
> file reaching 1.8 GB.
> 
> My taught was as a last resort, if there is any posibility to extract
the information ( even
> limited ) from those *.pst files using some Perl Module. I took a
quick look at CPAN, but I
> couldnt recognize anything.
> 
> I tried something like "Outlook Recovery" Demo, but the result wasn't
usable ( it was causing
> problems when tried to be imported in Outlook ).
> 
> I tried also "ForMorph" demo. It imported some messages, limited to
500 KB, and without
> attachments.
> 
> I personally use Outlook Express, and haven't had any problem with it yet.
> 
> Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance,
> Emil
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:42:20 -0600
> From: Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
> To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
> Message-ID: <20040113174220.GA11260@petdance.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> > My colleague is having problems with Outlook. The problems started
with having "Outlook.pst"
> > file reaching 1.8 GB.
> > 
> > My taught was as a last resort, if there is any posibility to
extract the information ( even
> > limited ) from those *.pst files using some Perl Module. I took a
quick look at CPAN, but I
> > couldnt recognize anything.
> 
> There's a C library out there for extracting stuff, but I don't know how
> well it works.
> 
> I would suggest you go thru the Win32::OLE automation and extract the
> data that way.
> 
> 
> xoa
> 
> -- 
> Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
> 
> End of Chicago-talk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 10
> *******************************************
> 




From ejanev2 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 13 12:56:49 2004
From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
Message-ID: <20040113185649.73314.qmail@web60901.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the prompt responses. I will need some time to try all of the stuff.
I basically work as a client support and maintenance, so often as today, I have many issues
to finish before having some time to try this stuff.

Here are some my thaughts, maybe I am wrong with them yet:

--- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com> wrote:
> There's a C library out there for extracting stuff, but I don't know how
> well it works.
> 
> I would suggest you go thru the Win32::OLE automation and extract the
> data that way.
> 

C is not an option for me for know. I haven't worked recently, but I'll spent some time of
refreshing myself with it.

About Win32::OLE, as I understand, I will have to have installed Outlook, with "*.pst" files
available to Outlook.
That file 1.8 GB, has reached limitation of the Outlook, I think. It locks the Outlook when
tried to be imported. So it is not available through Outlook.
Again, I haven't worked with Outlook through OLE, so I might be wrong.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com> wrote:
> not sure what you have going
> 
> but
> 
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/outlook_text_to_mbox/
> 
> looks like it might work...

I put a look at it. It says folders saved as text or CSV files, from Outlook. That *.pst file
is not available in Outlook, so no option for Exort (or SaveAs) as Text/CSV.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Jeremy Hubble <jhubble@core.com> wrote:
> Mozilla has an Outlook import feature that is fairly reliable.  (Though
> I have only used it with a 100 Meg PST)  You could probably dig through
> the source tree to see its guts.
> 

I think I tried with Mozilla mail client, as it complained of Outlook not installed. I didn't
find the option to import just .pst file, but just the files from already installed and
running Outlook.

>(And if you're really in the mood, create a perl module!)

I missed the last Perl Meeting, so I'll skip this option for now :-)


Thanks much for the feedback,
Emil


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jan 13 13:36:03 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
In-Reply-To: <200401131810.i0DIAU7l003264@mail3.mx.voyager.net>
References: <200401131810.i0DIAU7l003264@mail3.mx.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <20040113193603.GF19460@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 01:10:27PM -0500, Jeremy Hubble wrote:
> And if you're really in the mood, create a perl module!

If you do end up rolling your own, you might want to consider building it as a 
plugin for Mail::Box [1].

//Ed

[1] http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Mail::Box

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jan 13 20:31:08 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
In-Reply-To: <20040113173537.88400.qmail@web60906.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040113173537.88400.qmail@web60906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1989600000.1074047468@[192.168.200.4]>


> My colleague is having problems with Outlook.

At least he is in the good company of millions of other
windows users...

There was a TPJ issue on email -- the cover had a magic
8-ball with the phrase "Outlook Not Good" showing. There
may have been an article in there. I'd check TPJ's online
archive and see if they have anything.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From ejanev2 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 14 07:59:48 2004
From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
In-Reply-To: <1989600000.1074047468@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040114135948.16640.qmail@web60905.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Steven Lembark <lembark@wrkhors.com> wrote:
> 
> > My colleague is having problems with Outlook.
> 
> At least he is in the good company of millions of other
> windows users...
> 

I tried convincing of pointing my coleague to other Mail Client instead of Outlook. But 
non-technical stuf (like Comercials, Administrative assistants ...) are pretty stuck on
Windows and proprietary things, especially from MS.

> There was a TPJ issue on email -- the cover had a magic
> 8-ball with the phrase "Outlook Not Good" showing. There
> may have been an article in there. I'd check TPJ's online
> archive and see if they have anything.
> 

I'll keep in mind that "Ootlook Not Good". I might find the TPJ issue online too.
Thanks for this.

Emil


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From ossinfo at osschicago.com  Tue Jan 13 14:13:18 2004
From: ossinfo at osschicago.com (ossinfo@osschicago.com)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSS Chicago - Jan.22nd Event - Brought to you by
	Brunswick WDI
Message-ID: <OF68FD0376.0A80EF9E-ON86256E1A.006F13E4-86256E1A.006F1536@wdi.com>

I wanted pass along a personal invitation, I hope that you will be able to
attend our next open source software event.

OSS Chicago is sponsored by WDI, a division of Brunswick New Technologies.
Bob Radvanovsky will be reviewing Open Source Software and the impact it
can have in today's business and systems security.  There are so many
different applications out there that are Open Source (no cost) that can
help all of us in today's economy.  We figured the best way to accomplish
this is to collaborate with other businesses and professionals that are
using open source or have the same general interest in Open Source.
Meetings will be held Bi-Monthly with different featured speakers.  More
information about our group and what Open Source is can be found on our
website: http://www.OSSChicago.com .  If you don't feel that this pertains
to you I am sorry for any inconvenience and would ask that you pass it
along to your Information Technology department for review.  If you any
questions or require further information on OSS Chicago, please email me
and let me know.

Thank you for your time.  If you have any questions at all please feel free
to email me or call direct.

Best Regards,
Tiffany Patterson
Open Source Software Chicago
P: 847.970.6838  F: 847.970.6869
email: ossinfo@osschicago.com
website: http://www.OSSChicago.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please join Open Source Software Chicago on Jan.22nd as we bring you:

"Effective Security using Open Source Security Tools"

Presenter: Bob Radvanovsky

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This presentation will provide an introduction to effective Open Source
tools used for security.  Some of the more obvious tools covered will be:
ipchains/iptables, nmap, ethereal and tcpdump.  Some of the not-so-obvious
tools we will review are kismet, Wellenreiter, snort, and shadow.

Our presenter, Bob Radvanovsky has a long history with systems development
and engineering.  Here is a little more about Bob's background.

Bob Radvanovsky has a background in systems development and engineering,
with recent endeavors in areas of security, specifically in penetration
testing & analysis, risk assessments (policy and site assessment), policy
management (documentation and change control), and secured infrastructure
(intrusion detection systems [IDS], firewalls, proxy servers, et. al).
Bob's passion for computer technology development has spawned a complete
data center at his home, as well as varied presentations on UNIX (or LINUX)
operating system environments, various security tools for LINUX, and open
forum discussions specific to home environment securification.  Bob has
also performed some security work (under contract) for the United States
Department of Defense in an effort to secure some of their environments.

What:
OSS Chicago's regular meetings

Where:
200 Fairway Drive, Ste 204, Vernon Hills IL (look for the OSS Banner)

When:
January 22nd, 2004

Time:
6:30 p.m. -- doors open
7:00 p.m. -- Introductions and presentations
7:30 p.m. -- Q&A
7:45 p.m. -- Open discussions start

Beverages will be served.

More information can be found on the Chicago Open Source website located
at: http://www.OSSChicago.com

Please let us know whether you want to stay updated with our meeting
information on our website at: http://www.osschicago.com/contact_us .





From ehs at pobox.com  Thu Jan 15 16:59:03 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Books and Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program,
	January 14
Message-ID: <20040115225903.GB7162@chloe.inkdroid.org>

If you want to review any of the following titles let me know and I'll
pass along the info: 

- Security Warrior
- Perl Template Toolkit			[PICK ME, PICK ME]
- Learning Python, 2nd Edition
- Running Mac OS X Panther
- Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther
- Postfix: The Definitive Guide
- sendmail Cookbook
- Apple Confidential 2.0
- Degunking Windows 
- Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition

ORA news follows:

================================================================
O'Reilly News for User Group Members
January 14, 2004
================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------
Book News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Security Warrior
-Perl Template Toolkit
-Learning Python, 2nd Edition
-Running Mac OS X Panther
-Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther
-Postfix: The Definitive Guide
-sendmail Cookbook
-Apple Confidential 2.0
-Degunking Windows 
-Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition
----------------------------------------------------------------
Upcoming Events
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Sanjay Mishra (Mastering Oracle SQL), Dallas, TX--January 15
-O'Reilly at LinuxWorld, New York, NY--January 20-23, 2004  
----------------------------------------------------------------
Conferences
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Digital Democracy Teach-In--February 9
-OSCON Survey: Participate to Win
-OSCON 2004: Call for Participation
----------------------------------------------------------------
News
----------------------------------------------------------------
-O'Reilly Partners with No Starch, Paraglyph, and Syngress 
-Quantum Dots and Programmable Matter
-Global Developer Survey
-The State of Perl 
-Brian Behlendorf: Open Source Luminary
-ONJava: 2003 in Review 
-Design Considerations for Microsoft Smartphone Applications
-New Data Controls in ASP.NET Whidbey
-Cooking with ADO.NET
-Dreamweaver MX 2004 for Mac OS X 
-Confident Apple for 2004 
-Control Your Mac with Your PDA
----------------------------------------------------------------
News From Your Peers
----------------------------------------------------------------
-Northwest Oracle Users Group Winter Conference and Seminars, Bellevue
WA--February 9-10
-The St. Louis Web Developers Organization and local chapter of the
IWA/HTML Writers Guild presents the 5th Annual Web Design Awards Ceremony,
St Louis, MO--February 17
================================================
Book News
================================================
Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html

Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, 
Paraglyph, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly.
Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
http://www.oreilly.com/


***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at 
least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer 
applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico.
For more details, go to:
http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
O'Reilly New Releases
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Security Warrior
ISBN: 0-596-00545-8
"Security Warrior" is based on the principle that the only way to defend
yourself is to understand your attacker in depth. "Security Warrior"
reveals how your systems can be attacked, covering everything from reverse
engineering to SQL attacks, and including topics like social engineering,
antiforensics, and common attacks against UNIX and Windows systems. This
book teaches you to know your enemy and how to be prepared to do battle. 
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swarrior/

Chapter 2, "Windows Reverse Engineering," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swarrior/chapter/index.html


***Perl Template Toolkit
ISBN: 0-596-00476-1
"Perl Template Toolkit" guides you through the entire process of
installing, configuring, using, and extending the Template Toolkit.
Written by core members of the technology's development team, the book
begins with a fast-paced but thorough tutorial on building web content
with the Template Toolkit, and then walks you through generating and using
data files, particularly with XML. The book also provides detailed
information on the Template Toolkit's modules, libraries, and tools, in
addition to a complete reference manual.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perltt/

Chapter 2, "A Complete Web Site Using Template Toolkit," is available
online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perltt/chapter/index.html


***Learning Python, 2nd Edition
ISBN: 0-596-00281-5
"Learning Python, 2nd Edition" is a self-paced, comprehensive learning
tool that allows programmers to focus on the core Python language in
depth. Thoroughly updated, this guide introduces the basic elements of the
latest release of Python, Python 2.3, and covers new features such as list
comprehensions, nested scopes, and iterators/generators. The book also
includes fresh overviews of object-oriented programming and dynamic
typing, new discussions of program launch and configuration options, new
coverage of documentation sources, and much more.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/ 

Chapter 19, "OOP: The Big Picture," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/chapter/index.html


***Running Mac OS X Panther
ISBN: 0-596-00500-8
"Running Mac OS X Panther" is the ultimate Swiss Army Knife for power
users who want to customize, rev up, and get the most out of their Macs.
The book takes readers deep inside Mac OS X's core, revealing the inner
workings of Panther. Learn where Mac OS X came from, how it's put
together, and how it works; get the tools you to need to examine how your
Mac is running and adjust all the knobs behind its operation; and learn
all the ways Mac OS X interfaces with the world around it.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runmacxpanther/


***Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther
ISBN: 0-596-00617-9
"Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther" provides a user-friendly tour of the
Mac Unix base. You'll explore Terminal and familiarize yourself with the
command line, learning as you go about the power and flexibility of the
hundreds of Unix programs that come with your Mac. And if Unix isn't new
to you, you'll discover how it translates into this latest Mac
incarnation. Updated to cover Panther, this book will keep you current
with the latest features of your Mac.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lunixpanther/

Chapter 5, "Printing," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lunixpanther/chapter/index.html


***Postfix: The Definitive Guide
ISBN:0-596-00212-2
"Postfix: The Definitive Guide" eases readers from the basic configuration
to the full power of Postfix. It discusses the interfaces to various tools
that round out a fully scalable and highly secure email system, tools
including POP, IMAP, LDAP, MySQL, Simple Authentication and Security Layer
(SASL), and Transport Layer Security (TLS, an upgrade of SSL). A reference
section for Postfix configuration parameters and an installation guide are
included. From compiling and installing Postfix to troubleshooting,
"Postfix: The Definitive Guide" gives you an all-in-one, comprehensive
tutorial and reference to this mail transfer agent.


***sendmail Cookbook
ISBN: 0-596-00471-0
"sendmail Cookbook" provides step-by-step solutions for administrators who
need to solve configuration problems fast. Each recipe outlines a
configuration problem, presents the code that solves that problem, and
explains the code in detail. The book provides lots of material that
doesn't get much coverage elsewhere: STARTTLS and AUTH are given entire
chapters, and LDAP is covered in recipes throughout the book. Don't wade
through dense documentation to work out custom solutions; just grab a
recipe and solve the problem.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sendmailckbk/

Sample Chapter 2, "Delivery and Forwarding," is available online:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sendmailckbk/chapter/index.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
Publishing Partners New Releases
----------------------------------------------------------------
***Apple Confidential 2.0: The Definitive History of the World's Most
Colorful Company
No Starch Press
ISBN: 1-59327-010-0
"Apple Confidential" examines the tumultuous history of America's
best-known Silicon Valley start-up--from its legendary founding almost 30
years ago, through a series of disastrous executive decisions, to its
return to profitability, and including Apple's recent move into the music
business. This updated and expanded edition is full of juicy quotes,
timelines, charts, and photos. 
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270100/


***Degunking Windows
Paraglyph Press
ISBN: 1-932111-84-0
"Degunking Windows" covers the basics to help you quickly get your PC back
to top performance. The book is organized according to special "cleaning"
processes that will improve the performance of your computer. Shortcut and
time calculation charts are provided at the beginning of the book to help
you determine how much time is required to perform different degunking
tasks from small to large.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111840/


***Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition 
Paraglyph Press
ISBN: 1-932111-87-5
"Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, 2nd Edition," shows you how to
perform Windows XP and 2003 management and administrative tasks using
powerful scripts for just about every important task imaginable. It covers
ways to implement these scripts in an everyday environment automating
repetitive tasks, and features example scripts on every new topic you can
easily modify or combine to perform myriad tasks.
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111875/

================================================
Upcoming Events
================================================
***For more events, please see:
http://events.oreilly.com/


***Sanjay Mishra (Mastering Oracle SQL), Dallas, TX--January 15
Author Sanjay Mishra discusses "Oracle 10g: SQL New Features" at the next
meeting.
For more info and locaton, go to:
http://www.doug.org/meetings2004.cfm


***O'Reilly at LinuxWorld, New York, NY--January 20-23 
C'mon by our booth (#357) and get your mitts on our latest Linux and open
source titles. We'll also be showing off Safari Bookshelf, our online
reference library, and will have live presentations by O'Reilly authors.
Javits Center, New York, NY
http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/linuxworldny/V40/index.cvn

================================================
Conference News
================================================
***Digital Democracy Teach-In--February 9
We've just added a Digital Democracy Teach-In to the O'Reilly Emerging
Technology Conference. It's a stand-alone, full-day session that explores
the Internet's impact on the political process. If you're interesting in
theintersection of technology, politics, and culture, you won't want to 
miss it.

Hear from the people who are defying conventional wisdom and changing the
rules of the game--the founders of MoveOn and MeetUp, Dean campaign
staffers, influential political bloggers, and grassroots advocates.
They'll explain how, as political outsiders with technology chops and an
urge to change the world, they've hacked the old guard's system. You'll
come away with a potent new Internet-based toolset for flexing your
political muscle.
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/et2004/edemo.csp

To register, go to:
(Sorry, no user group discounts apply.)
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/et2004/create/ord_et04?x-t=edemo.create.form


For more information on the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, go
to:
http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/


***OSCON Survey: Participate to Win
Help us refine our program for the 2004 O'Reilly Open Source Convention by
answering our OSCON survey. It'll take only five minutes, and
participation makes you eligible to win one of two free passes to OSCON.

To fill out the survey, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/survey/oscon04_planning/oscon04_planning_1.htm

For more information on the O'Reilly Open Source Convention, go to:
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/


***OSCON 2004: Call for Participation
Individuals and companies interested in making presentations or giving
tutorials at next summer's O'Reilly Open Source Convention in Portland,
Oregon are invited to submit proposals. This year's theme is "Opening the
Future: Discover, Develop, Deliver.".Tracks of interest run the open
source gamut from Apache to XML, and we're also looking for proposals for
sessions that help attendees add open source to their companies. The
deadline for submitting proposals is February 9. 

To submit a proposal, go to:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/create/e_sess

================================================
News From O'Reilly & Beyond
================================================
---------------------
General News
---------------------
***O'Reilly Partners with No Starch, Paraglyph, and Syngress
We're pleased to announce a collaboration between like-minded companies:
As of January 1, 2004, O'Reilly is the North American distributor for
three innovative small presses: No Starch Press, Paraglyph Press, and
Syngress Publishing. We'll be sending user groups information and review
copies for our new partners.

No Starch Press
http://nostarch.oreilly.com/

Paraglyph Press
http://paraglyph.oreilly.com/

Syngress Publishing
http://syngress.oreilly.com/


***Quantum Dots and Programmable Matter 
Wil McCarthy introduces the concepts of programmable matter and the
quantum dot, a device capable of trapping electrons in a space so small it
forms artificial atoms that can be controlled in real time. If you'd like
to learn more about this "programmable matter," Wil plans to explore the
social and technological implications of quantum dots at O'Reilly's
upcoming Emerging Technology Conference.
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/01/09/quantumdots.html


***Global Developer Survey 
Software and application development have become a global endeavor. In
response, MediaLive and O'Reilly have launched a survey to profile
developers around the world, and we want you to be a part of it.
Participate in this first study of its kind for a chance to win $500 USD.
http://www.worldquery.com/qaglobal/Survey.cfm?c=5&fr=5475&s=8&g1=2&gp=32&r=0

---------------------
Open Source
---------------------
***The State of Perl
A new year is a good time to take a look at the state Perl's in: its
weaknesses, strengths, and future directions. Adam Turoff takes a long
look at where Perl's going and why, and finds that Perl 6 doesn't have to
be the last great hope.
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/01/09/survey.html

***Brian Behlendorf: Open Source Luminary
Writing for "The Mercury News," Dan Gillmor profiles some of Silicon
Valley's lesser-known business leaders and innovative technologists. Among
them is Brian Behlendorf, the man who brought us Apache and the Apache
Software Foundation, and the CTO of CollabNet.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/7532827.htm

---------------------
Java
---------------------
***ONJava: 2003 in Review 
A look back at ONJava articles from 2003, summarizing the big topics and
major trends of the year in Java.
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/12/30/2003-yearender.html

---------------------
Wireless
---------------------
***Design Considerations for Microsoft Smartphone Applications 
Microsoft has recently announced support for the .NET CF in the new
SmartPhone 2003. Here are some things to keep in mind when developing .NET
CF SmartPhone applications:
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2004/01/07/smartphone.html

---------------------
.NET
---------------------
***New Data Controls in ASP.NET Whidbey 
One of the design goals of the next release of ASP.NET, codenamed ASP.NET
Whidbey, is to reduce the amount of code you write for common tasks such
as data access. Wei-Meng Lee discusses two new controls that drastically
reduce the amount of code you typically need to write in ASP.NET.
http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2004/01/12/whidbey_datacontrols.htm


***Cooking with ADO.NET
O'Reilly's recently released "ADO.NET Cookbook" contains over 150
solutions and best practices for everyday dilemmas. This week, we're
excerpting three recipes from the book that show how to asynchronously
update data in a database, how to protect login credentials during network
transmissions, and how to enforce a business rule with column
expressions.
http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/excerpt/ado.netckbk_chap01/index.html

ADO.NET Cookbook
ISBN: 0-596-00439-7
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adonetckbk/index.html

---------------------
Mac
---------------------
***Dreamweaver MX 2004 for Mac OS X
Dreamweaver has always facilitated web design in the visual graphic art
tradition. It's also famous for its accurate HTML code and organic way of
letting users alternate between code and design view. Dreamweaver MX 2004
has some improvements that may tempt you to take another look at this
application for your work.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/13/dreamweaver.html


***Confident Apple for 2004 
You can have an entertaining, inspiring keynote without introducing the
next big thing. Apple and Steve Jobs did just that at Macworld SF '04, and
it bodes well for the year ahead.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/07/apple_2004.html


***Control Your Mac with Your PDA 
You bought a Bluetooth Mac, and now you have a Bluetooth PDA, so there
must be something cool that the two can do together, right? There is, when
you add Salling Software's Clicker to the mix. Clicker lets your Bluetooth
devices (phones and PDAs) act as a remote control for your Mac. Dori
Smith, coauthor of "Mac OS X Unwired," walks you through the install and
use of Clicker, then looks at some examples of Clicker in action, using
PowerPoint and iPhoto.
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/06/macosxunwired.html

Mac OS X Unwired
ISBN:0-596-00508-3
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/macxunwire/index.html

================================================
News From Your Peers
================================================
***Northwest Oracle Users Group Winter Conference and Seminars, Bellevue
WA--February 9-10
Five parallel session tracks and 25 sessions on Monday the 9th.
Two optional all-day seminars on Tuesday the 10th.
The conference takes place at the Meydenbauer Center, Bellevue WA
For more information, go to:
http://www.nwoug.com


***The St. Louis Web Developers Organization and local chapter of the
IWA/HTML Writers Guild presents the 5th Annual Web Design Awards Ceremony,
St Louis, MO--February 17
The event will be held at the St. Louis Science Center beginning at 6:00pm
and is open to the public. Refreshments are provided and prizes will be
given to the top 3 web page winners in 7 categories.
For more information, go to:
http://www.stlwebdev.org/resources/awards/

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Thu Jan 15 20:41:22 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <20040115225903.GB7162@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEBODGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>


All:

Is it possible to do flat-file scrapes similar to screeen-scrapes?

Is there a specific term for that method of searching?



From ehs at pobox.com  Thu Jan 15 21:39:53 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEBODGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <20040115225903.GB7162@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEBODGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <20040116033953.GA6410@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 08:41:22PM -0600, petemar1 wrote:
> Is there a specific term for that method of searching?

See: regular expressions, or pattern matching in your local camel book.

//Ed

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Thu Jan 15 22:22:16 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <20040116033953.GA6410@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

I already have my regex, it's a filehandling issue. I can open(FILE
">>filename"); and close(FILE) and write to it with print FILE "blah," but
what's the function to read from said FILE?

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Ed Summers
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:40 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"


On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 08:41:22PM -0600, petemar1 wrote:
> Is there a specific term for that method of searching?

See: regular expressions, or pattern matching in your local camel book.

//Ed
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 16 00:07:51 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:00 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <949930000.1074233271@[192.168.200.4]>



-- petemar1 <petemar1@perlmonk.org>

> I already have my regex, it's a filehandling issue. I can open(FILE
> ">>filename"); and close(FILE) and write to it with print FILE "blah," but
> what's the function to read from said FILE?

er, sort of like:

	sub slurpify
	{
		if( open my $file, '<', shift )
		{
			local $/;

			# caller gets the source back as a scalar.

			my $rx = shift;

			( my $input = <$file> ) =~ /$rx/;
		}
		else
		{
			die "trying...";
		}
	}

	# slurp the file wholesale then apply the regex
	# to it for the coupe de rx.

	my @stuff =  slurpify $path, qr/$your_regex_here/i;


This can hack a socket also if you feel like playing
with networks.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From mcgee at myway.com  Fri Jan 16 08:16:16 2004
From: mcgee at myway.com (Sam)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Books and Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program,
	January 14
Message-ID: <20040116141616.5FBFD3981@mprdmxin.myway.com>



I would like to review Perl Template Toolkit, if no one else has already claimed it.  This is my first time, so hopefully I have the protocol correct.

Sam



 --- On Thu 01/15, Ed Summers < ehs@pobox.com > wrote:
From: Ed Summers [mailto: ehs@pobox.com]
To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:59:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Books and Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, January 14

If you want to review any of the following titles let me know and I'll<br>pass along the info: <br><br>- Security Warrior<br>- Perl Template Toolkit			[PICK ME, PICK ME]<br>- Learning Python, 2nd Edition<br>- Running Mac OS X Panther<br>- Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther<br>- Postfix: The Definitive Guide<br>- sendmail Cookbook<br>- Apple Confidential 2.0<br>- Degunking Windows <br>- Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition<br><br>ORA news follows:<br><br>================================================================<br>O'Reilly News for User Group Members<br>January 14, 2004<br>================================================================<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>Book News<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>-Security Warrior<br>-Perl Template Toolkit<br>-Learning Python, 2nd Edition<br>-Running Mac OS X Panther<br>-Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther<br>-Postfix: The Definitive Guide<br>-sendmail Cookbook<br>-Apple Confidential 2.0<br>-Degunking Windows <br>-Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>Upcoming Events<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>-Sanjay Mishra (Mastering Oracle SQL), Dallas, TX--January 15<br>-O'Reilly at LinuxWorld, New York, NY--January 20-23, 2004  <br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>Conferences<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>-Digital Democracy Teach-In--February 9<br>-OSCON Survey: Participate to Win<br>-OSCON 2004: Call for Participation<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>News<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>-O'Reilly Partners with No Starch, Paraglyph, and Syngress <br>-Quantum Dots and Programmable Matter<br>-Global Developer Survey<br>-The State of Perl <br>-Brian Behlendorf: Open Source Luminary<br>-ONJava: 2003 in Review <br>-Design Considerations for Microsoft Smartphone Applications<br>-New Data Controls in ASP.NET Whidbey<br>-Cooking with ADO.NET<br>-Dreamweaver MX 2004 for Mac OS X <br>-Confident Apple for 2004 <br>-Control Your Mac with Your PDA<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>News From Your Peers<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>-Northwest Oracle Users Group Winter Conference and Seminars, Bellevue<br>WA--February 9-10<br>-The St. Louis Web Developers Organization and local chapter of the<br>IWA/HTML Writers Guild presents the 5th Annual Web Design Awards Ceremony,<br>St Louis, MO--February 17<br>================================================<br>Book News<br>================================================<br>Did you know you can request a free book to review for your<br>group? Ask your group leader for more information.<br><br>For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:<br>http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html<br><br>Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, <br>Paraglyph, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly.<br>Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/<br><br><br>***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at <br>least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer <br>applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico.<br>For more details, go to:<br>http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html<br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>O'Reilly New Releases<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>***Security Warrior<br>ISBN: 0-596-00545-8<br>"Security Warrior" is based on the principle that the only way to defend<br>yourself is to understand your attacker in depth. "Security Warrior"<br>reveals how your systems can be attacked, covering everything from reverse<br>engineering to SQL attacks, and including topics like social engineer
 ing,<br>antiforensics, and common attacks against UNIX and Windows systems. This<br>book teaches you to know your enemy and how to be prepared to do battle. <br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swarrior/<br><br>Chapter 2, "Windows Reverse Engineering," is available online:<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swarrior/chapter/index.html<br><br><br>***Perl Template Toolkit<br>ISBN: 0-596-00476-1<br>"Perl Template Toolkit" guides you through the entire process of<br>installing, configuring, using, and extending the Template Toolkit.<br>Written by core members of the technology's development team, the book<br>begins with a fast-paced but thorough tutorial on building web content<br>with the Template Toolkit, and then walks you through generating and using<br>data files, particularly with XML. The book also provides detailed<br>information on the Template Toolkit's modules, libraries, and tools, in<br>addition to a complete reference manual.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perltt/<br><br>Chapter 2, "A Complete Web Site Using Template Toolkit," is available<br>online:<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perltt/chapter/index.html<br><br><br>***Learning Python, 2nd Edition<br>ISBN: 0-596-00281-5<br>"Learning Python, 2nd Edition" is a self-paced, comprehensive learning<br>tool that allows programmers to focus on the core Python language in<br>depth. Thoroughly updated, this guide introduces the basic elements of the<br>latest release of Python, Python 2.3, and covers new features such as list<br>comprehensions, nested scopes, and iterators/generators. The book also<br>includes fresh overviews of object-oriented programming and dynamic<br>typing, new discussions of program launch and configuration options, new<br>coverage of documentation sources, and much more.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/ <br><br>Chapter 19, "OOP: The Big Picture," is available online:<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/chapter/index.html<br><br><br>***Running Mac OS X Panther<br>ISBN: 0-596-00500-8<br>"Running Mac OS X Panther" is the ultimate Swiss Army Knife for power<br>users who want to customize, rev up, and get the most out of their Macs.<br>The book takes readers deep inside Mac OS X's core, revealing the inner<br>workings of Panther. Learn where Mac OS X came from, how it's put<br>together, and how it works; get the tools you to need to examine how your<br>Mac is running and adjust all the knobs behind its operation; and learn<br>all the ways Mac OS X interfaces with the world around it.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runmacxpanther/<br><br><br>***Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther<br>ISBN: 0-596-00617-9<br>"Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther" provides a user-friendly tour of the<br>Mac Unix base. You'll explore Terminal and familiarize yourself with the<br>command line, learning as you go about the power and flexibility of the<br>hundreds of Unix programs that come with your Mac. And if Unix isn't new<br>to you, you'll discover how it translates into this latest Mac<br>incarnation. Updated to cover Panther, this book will keep you current<br>with the latest features of your Mac.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lunixpanther/<br><br>Chapter 5, "Printing," is available online:<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lunixpanther/chapter/index.html<br><br><br>***Postfix: The Definitive Guide<br>ISBN:0-596-00212-2<br>"Postfix: The Definitive Guide" eases readers from the basic configuration<br>to the full power of Postfix. It discusses the interfaces to various tools<br>that round out a fully scalable and highly secure email system, tools<br>including POP, IMAP, LDAP, MySQL, Simple Authentication and Security Layer<br>(SASL), and Transport Layer Security (TLS, an upgrade of SSL). A reference<br>section for Postfix configuration parameters and an installation guide are<br>included. From compiling and installing Postfix to troubleshooting,<br>"Postfix: The Definitive Guide" gives you an all-in-one, comprehensive<br>tutorial and reference to this mail transfer agent.<br><br><br>***sendmail Cookbook<br>ISBN: 0-596-00471-0<br>"sendmail Cookboo
 k" provides step-by-step solutions for administrators who<br>need to solve configuration problems fast. Each recipe outlines a<br>configuration problem, presents the code that solves that problem, and<br>explains the code in detail. The book provides lots of material that<br>doesn't get much coverage elsewhere: STARTTLS and AUTH are given entire<br>chapters, and LDAP is covered in recipes throughout the book. Don't wade<br>through dense documentation to work out custom solutions; just grab a<br>recipe and solve the problem.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sendmailckbk/<br><br>Sample Chapter 2, "Delivery and Forwarding," is available online:<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sendmailckbk/chapter/index.html<br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>Publishing Partners New Releases<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>***Apple Confidential 2.0: The Definitive History of the World's Most<br>Colorful Company<br>No Starch Press<br>ISBN: 1-59327-010-0<br>"Apple Confidential" examines the tumultuous history of America's<br>best-known Silicon Valley start-up--from its legendary founding almost 30<br>years ago, through a series of disastrous executive decisions, to its<br>return to profitability, and including Apple's recent move into the music<br>business. This updated and expanded edition is full of juicy quotes,<br>timelines, charts, and photos. <br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270100/<br><br><br>***Degunking Windows<br>Paraglyph Press<br>ISBN: 1-932111-84-0<br>"Degunking Windows" covers the basics to help you quickly get your PC back<br>to top performance. The book is organized according to special "cleaning"<br>processes that will improve the performance of your computer. Shortcut and<br>time calculation charts are provided at the beginning of the book to help<br>you determine how much time is required to perform different degunking<br>tasks from small to large.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111840/<br><br><br>***Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition <br>Paraglyph Press<br>ISBN: 1-932111-87-5<br>"Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, 2nd Edition," shows you how to<br>perform Windows XP and 2003 management and administrative tasks using<br>powerful scripts for just about every important task imaginable. It covers<br>ways to implement these scripts in an everyday environment automating<br>repetitive tasks, and features example scripts on every new topic you can<br>easily modify or combine to perform myriad tasks.<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111875/<br><br>================================================<br>Upcoming Events<br>================================================<br>***For more events, please see:<br>http://events.oreilly.com/<br><br><br>***Sanjay Mishra (Mastering Oracle SQL), Dallas, TX--January 15<br>Author Sanjay Mishra discusses "Oracle 10g: SQL New Features" at the next<br>meeting.<br>For more info and locaton, go to:<br>http://www.doug.org/meetings2004.cfm<br><br><br>***O'Reilly at LinuxWorld, New York, NY--January 20-23 <br>C'mon by our booth (#357) and get your mitts on our latest Linux and open<br>source titles. We'll also be showing off Safari Bookshelf, our online<br>reference library, and will have live presentations by O'Reilly authors.<br>Javits Center, New York, NY<br>http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/linuxworldny/V40/index.cvn<br><br>================================================<br>Conference News<br>================================================<br>***Digital Democracy Teach-In--February 9<br>We've just added a Digital Democracy Teach-In to the O'Reilly Emerging<br>Technology Conference. It's a stand-alone, full-day session that explores<br>the Internet's impact on the political process. If you're interesting in<br>theintersection of technology, politics, and culture, you won't want to <br>miss it.<br><br>Hear from the people who are defying conventional wisdom and changing the<br>rules of the game--the founders of MoveOn and MeetUp, Dean campaign<br>staffers, influential political 
 bloggers, and grassroots advocates.<br>They'll explain how, as political outsiders with technology chops and an<br>urge to change the world, they've hacked the old guard's system. You'll<br>come away with a potent new Internet-based toolset for flexing your<br>political muscle.<br>http://conferences.oreillynet.com/et2004/edemo.csp<br><br>To register, go to:<br>(Sorry, no user group discounts apply.)<br>http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/et2004/create/ord_et04?x-t=edemo.create.form<br><br><br>For more information on the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, go<br>to:<br>http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/<br><br><br>***OSCON Survey: Participate to Win<br>Help us refine our program for the 2004 O'Reilly Open Source Convention by<br>answering our OSCON survey. It'll take only five minutes, and<br>participation makes you eligible to win one of two free passes to OSCON.<br><br>To fill out the survey, go to:<br>http://conferences.oreillynet.com/survey/oscon04_planning/oscon04_planning_1.htm<br><br>For more information on the O'Reilly Open Source Convention, go to:<br>http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/<br><br><br>***OSCON 2004: Call for Participation<br>Individuals and companies interested in making presentations or giving<br>tutorials at next summer's O'Reilly Open Source Convention in Portland,<br>Oregon are invited to submit proposals. This year's theme is "Opening the<br>Future: Discover, Develop, Deliver.".Tracks of interest run the open<br>source gamut from Apache to XML, and we're also looking for proposals for<br>sessions that help attendees add open source to their companies. The<br>deadline for submitting proposals is February 9. <br><br>To submit a proposal, go to:<br>http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/create/e_sess<br><br>================================================<br>News From O'Reilly & Beyond<br>================================================<br>---------------------<br>General News<br>---------------------<br>***O'Reilly Partners with No Starch, Paraglyph, and Syngress<br>We're pleased to announce a collaboration between like-minded companies:<br>As of January 1, 2004, O'Reilly is the North American distributor for<br>three innovative small presses: No Starch Press, Paraglyph Press, and<br>Syngress Publishing. We'll be sending user groups information and review<br>copies for our new partners.<br><br>No Starch Press<br>http://nostarch.oreilly.com/<br><br>Paraglyph Press<br>http://paraglyph.oreilly.com/<br><br>Syngress Publishing<br>http://syngress.oreilly.com/<br><br><br>***Quantum Dots and Programmable Matter <br>Wil McCarthy introduces the concepts of programmable matter and the<br>quantum dot, a device capable of trapping electrons in a space so small it<br>forms artificial atoms that can be controlled in real time. If you'd like<br>to learn more about this "programmable matter," Wil plans to explore the<br>social and technological implications of quantum dots at O'Reilly's<br>upcoming Emerging Technology Conference.<br>http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/01/09/quantumdots.html<br><br><br>***Global Developer Survey <br>Software and application development have become a global endeavor. In<br>response, MediaLive and O'Reilly have launched a survey to profile<br>developers around the world, and we want you to be a part of it.<br>Participate in this first study of its kind for a chance to win $500 USD.<br>http://www.worldquery.com/qaglobal/Survey.cfm?c=5&fr=5475&s=8&g1=2&gp=32&r=0<br><br>---------------------<br>Open Source<br>---------------------<br>***The State of Perl<br>A new year is a good time to take a look at the state Perl's in: its<br>weaknesses, strengths, and future directions. Adam Turoff takes a long<br>look at where Perl's going and why, and finds that Perl 6 doesn't have to<br>be the last great hope.<br>http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/01/09/survey.html<br><br>***Brian Behlendorf: Open Source Luminary<br>Writing for "The Mercury News," Dan Gillmor profiles some of Silicon<br>Valley's lesser-known business leaders and innovative technologists. Among<br>them is Bria
 n Behlendorf, the man who brought us Apache and the Apache<br>Software Foundation, and the CTO of CollabNet.<br>http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/7532827.htm<br><br>---------------------<br>Java<br>---------------------<br>***ONJava: 2003 in Review <br>A look back at ONJava articles from 2003, summarizing the big topics and<br>major trends of the year in Java.<br>http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/12/30/2003-yearender.html<br><br>---------------------<br>Wireless<br>---------------------<br>***Design Considerations for Microsoft Smartphone Applications <br>Microsoft has recently announced support for the .NET CF in the new<br>SmartPhone 2003. Here are some things to keep in mind when developing .NET<br>CF SmartPhone applications:<br>http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2004/01/07/smartphone.html<br><br>---------------------<br>.NET<br>---------------------<br>***New Data Controls in ASP.NET Whidbey <br>One of the design goals of the next release of ASP.NET, codenamed ASP.NET<br>Whidbey, is to reduce the amount of code you write for common tasks such<br>as data access. Wei-Meng Lee discusses two new controls that drastically<br>reduce the amount of code you typically need to write in ASP.NET.<br>http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2004/01/12/whidbey_datacontrols.htm<br><br><br>***Cooking with ADO.NET<br>O'Reilly's recently released "ADO.NET Cookbook" contains over 150<br>solutions and best practices for everyday dilemmas. This week, we're<br>excerpting three recipes from the book that show how to asynchronously<br>update data in a database, how to protect login credentials during network<br>transmissions, and how to enforce a business rule with column<br>expressions.<br>http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/excerpt/ado.netckbk_chap01/index.html<br><br>ADO.NET Cookbook<br>ISBN: 0-596-00439-7<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adonetckbk/index.html<br><br>---------------------<br>Mac<br>---------------------<br>***Dreamweaver MX 2004 for Mac OS X<br>Dreamweaver has always facilitated web design in the visual graphic art<br>tradition. It's also famous for its accurate HTML code and organic way of<br>letting users alternate between code and design view. Dreamweaver MX 2004<br>has some improvements that may tempt you to take another look at this<br>application for your work.<br>http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/13/dreamweaver.html<br><br><br>***Confident Apple for 2004 <br>You can have an entertaining, inspiring keynote without introducing the<br>next big thing. Apple and Steve Jobs did just that at Macworld SF '04, and<br>it bodes well for the year ahead.<br>http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/07/apple_2004.html<br><br><br>***Control Your Mac with Your PDA <br>You bought a Bluetooth Mac, and now you have a Bluetooth PDA, so there<br>must be something cool that the two can do together, right? There is, when<br>you add Salling Software's Clicker to the mix. Clicker lets your Bluetooth<br>devices (phones and PDAs) act as a remote control for your Mac. Dori<br>Smith, coauthor of "Mac OS X Unwired," walks you through the install and<br>use of Clicker, then looks at some examples of Clicker in action, using<br>PowerPoint and iPhoto.<br>http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/06/macosxunwired.html<br><br>Mac OS X Unwired<br>ISBN:0-596-00508-3<br>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/macxunwire/index.html<br><br>================================================<br>News From Your Peers<br>================================================<br>***Northwest Oracle Users Group Winter Conference and Seminars, Bellevue<br>WA--February 9-10<br>Five parallel session tracks and 25 sessions on Monday the 9th.<br>Two optional all-day seminars on Tuesday the 10th.<br>The conference takes place at the Meydenbauer Center, Bellevue WA<br>For more information, go to:<br>http://www.nwoug.com<br><br><br>***The St. Louis Web Developers Organization and local chapter of the<br>IWA/HTML Writers Guild presents the 5th Annual Web Design Awards Ceremony,<br>St Louis, MO--February 17<br>The event will be held at the St. Lou
 is Science Center beginning at 6:00pm<br>and is open to the public. Refreshments are provided and prizes will be<br>given to the top 3 web page winners in 7 categories.<br>For more information, go to:<br>http://www.stlwebdev.org/resources/awards/<br>_______________________________________________<br>Chicago-talk mailing list<br>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org<br>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk<br>

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com

From ehs at pobox.com  Fri Jan 16 09:56:46 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <20040116033953.GA6410@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <20040116155646.GA20973@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 10:22:16PM -0600, petemar1 wrote:
> I already have my regex, it's a filehandling issue. I can open(FILE
> ">>filename"); and close(FILE) and write to it with print FILE "blah," but
> what's the function to read from said FILE?

    open( FILE, 'filename' );

Or if you prefer to use the shiny IO::File objects (as I do)

    my $fh = IO::File->new();
    $fh->open( 'filename' );

//Ed

From andy at petdance.com  Fri Jan 16 12:35:05 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <20040116155646.GA20973@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040116033953.GA6410@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
	<20040116155646.GA20973@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <20040116183505.GA32699@petdance.com>

> Or if you prefer to use the shiny IO::File objects (as I do)
> 
>     my $fh = IO::File->new();
>     $fh->open( 'filename' );

Why do you prefer them?

Now that you can say

   open my $fh, "foo";

the big reason to use 'em (passing around to funcs easily) has gone
away.  What else do you dig?

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From ehs at pobox.com  Fri Jan 16 13:15:32 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <20040116183505.GA32699@petdance.com>
References: <20040116033953.GA6410@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
	<20040116155646.GA20973@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<20040116183505.GA32699@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <20040116191532.GD20973@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 12:35:05PM -0600, Andy Lester wrote:
> Now that you can say
> 
>    open my $fh, "foo";
> 
> the big reason to use 'em (passing around to funcs easily) has gone
> away.  What else do you dig?
    
    $fh->open( 'foo' ) || croak( "sorry charlie" );

Also, I like my $fh to be a IO::File reference and not a reference to 
a anonymous GLOB. 

//Ed

From ehs at pobox.com  Fri Jan 16 13:25:41 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Books and Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program,
	January 14
In-Reply-To: <20040116141616.5FBFD3981@mprdmxin.myway.com>
References: <20040116141616.5FBFD3981@mprdmxin.myway.com>
Message-ID: <20040116192541.GE20973@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 09:16:16AM -0500, Sam wrote:
> I would like to review Perl Template Toolkit, if no one else has already 
> claimed it.  This is my first time, so hopefully I have the protocol correct.

Wonderful, send me your mailing address privately and we'll get one sent. 
The goal is to have the review done in 2 months, afterwhich it goes up
at http://chicago.pm.org/reviews.html but sooner is allowed :)

//Ed

From andy at petdance.com  Sat Jan 17 10:44:26 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
Message-ID: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>

Is anyone interested in getting PM T-shirts printed up?  Prices look to 
be about $6 each, or $8 for the XXL (we know who we are).

xoa

> From: Jeff Bisbee <pm_groups@jbisbee.com>
> Date: January 7, 2004 3:15:33 PM CST
> To: Perl Monger Group Leaders <pm_groups@pm.org>
> Subject: [pm_groups] Perl Monger T-shirts
>
> Sometime last year I contacted brian d foy about where he had the
> original Perl Mongers shirts printed and wanted to share the 
> information
> with all of you so that you could take advantage of exising screen as
> well.
>
> When I placed my first order, I used this page:
>
>     http://southflorida.pm.org/t-shirts/
>
> to keep track of everything and to keep the local group memebers up to
> date on who had paid, and to also add a little to the price of the
> shirts to make a donation to the Perl Foundation.
>
>
> Some items to note:
>
>     o  By using the exisiting screen  you don't have to pay art fees
>     o  Hanes Beefy-T quality shirts
>     o  Their prices are dirt cheap, 6.00 a shirt for the smallest 
> order,
>        our group added a little extra to each shirt so we could make a
>        donation to the Perl Foundation.
>
> CONTACT INFO
>
>     All Star
>     Kim Stewart
>     208 Charlton Road
>     P.O. Box 300
>     Sturbridge, MA 01566
>     (508) 347-7672
>
> TIME FRAME
>
>     2-3 Weeks Production | 4 Days Delivery
>
> PRICE MATRIX
>
>     COLOR       QTY     PRICE (EACH)   XXL (EACH)
>     ----------+-------+--------------+-----------
>     Navy, etc | 24-35 |         5.95 |     7.65
>     Navy, etc | 36-71 |         5.50 |     7.20
>     Navy, etc | 72+   |         5.35 |     7.05
>     ----------+-------+--------------+-----------
>     Ash Grey  | 24-35 |         5.50 |     7.20
>     Ash Grey  | 36-71 |         5.10 |     6.70
>     Ash Grey  | 72+   |         4.90 |     6.55
>     ----------+-------+--------------+-----------
>
> TO START PRINTING
>
>     Need Credit Card or 50%
>
> QUESTIONS?
>
>     If you have any questions, let me know.  I called Kim to let her
>     know I was posting this information to the list
>
> -- Jeff Bisbee / pm_groups@jbisbee.com / jbisbee.com
> _______________________________________________
> pm_groups mailing list
> pm_groups@pm.org
> http://www.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups
>
>

--
Andy Lester
andy@petdance.com, AIM:petdance
http://petdance.com/ http://use.perl.org/~petdance/


From shild at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan 17 10:51:06 2004
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20040117105106.shild@sbcglobal.net>


I'm interested, and yes I am a XXL ;-)

On 17-Jan-2004 Andy Lester wrote:
> Is anyone interested in getting PM T-shirts printed up?  Prices look to 
> be about $6 each, or $8 for the XXL (we know who we are).
> 
> xoa
> 
>> From: Jeff Bisbee <pm_groups@jbisbee.com>
>> Date: January 7, 2004 3:15:33 PM CST
>> To: Perl Monger Group Leaders <pm_groups@pm.org>
>> Subject: [pm_groups] Perl Monger T-shirts
>>
>> Sometime last year I contacted brian d foy about where he had the
>> original Perl Mongers shirts printed and wanted to share the 
>> information
>> with all of you so that you could take advantage of exising screen as
>> well.
>>
>> When I placed my first order, I used this page:
>>
>>     http://southflorida.pm.org/t-shirts/
>>
>> to keep track of everything and to keep the local group memebers up to
>> date on who had paid, and to also add a little to the price of the
>> shirts to make a donation to the Perl Foundation.
>>
>>
>> Some items to note:
>>
>>     o  By using the exisiting screen  you don't have to pay art fees
>>     o  Hanes Beefy-T quality shirts
>>     o  Their prices are dirt cheap, 6.00 a shirt for the smallest 
>> order,
>>        our group added a little extra to each shirt so we could make a
>>        donation to the Perl Foundation.
>>
>> CONTACT INFO
>>
>>     All Star
>>     Kim Stewart
>>     208 Charlton Road
>>     P.O. Box 300
>>     Sturbridge, MA 01566
>>     (508) 347-7672
>>
>> TIME FRAME
>>
>>     2-3 Weeks Production | 4 Days Delivery
>>
>> PRICE MATRIX
>>
>>     COLOR       QTY     PRICE (EACH)   XXL (EACH)
>>     ----------+-------+--------------+-----------
>>     Navy, etc | 24-35 |         5.95 |     7.65
>>     Navy, etc | 36-71 |         5.50 |     7.20
>>     Navy, etc | 72+   |         5.35 |     7.05
>>     ----------+-------+--------------+-----------
>>     Ash Grey  | 24-35 |         5.50 |     7.20
>>     Ash Grey  | 36-71 |         5.10 |     6.70
>>     Ash Grey  | 72+   |         4.90 |     6.55
>>     ----------+-------+--------------+-----------
>>
>> TO START PRINTING
>>
>>     Need Credit Card or 50%
>>
>> QUESTIONS?
>>
>>     If you have any questions, let me know.  I called Kim to let her
>>     know I was posting this information to the list
>>
>> -- Jeff Bisbee / pm_groups@jbisbee.com / jbisbee.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> pm_groups mailing list
>> pm_groups@pm.org
>> http://www.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups
>>
>>
> 
> --
> Andy Lester
> andy@petdance.com, AIM:petdance
> http://petdance.com/ http://use.perl.org/~petdance/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Scott T. Hildreth <shild@sbcglobal.net>
Date: 17-Jan-2004
Time: 10:50:26
----------------------------------

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sun Jan 18 18:16:29 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20040117105106.shild@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMECMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

On "juggling arguments:"

When you have a...

    sub doSomething(\$) {

        doSomethingElse($_);    # Is this correct...
        doSomethingElse($_[1]); # ...or is this correct?

    } # end doSomething()

???

Until I refactor, I'm passing $StringLiteral through doSomething() to
doSomethingElse() and have met with limited results.



From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sun Jan 18 18:26:08 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMECMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMECMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <86oet0vl5u.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "petemar1" == petemar1  <petemar1@perlmonk.org> writes:

petemar1> On "juggling arguments:"
petemar1> When you have a...

petemar1>     sub doSomething(\$) {

Don't use prototypes!

petemar1>         doSomethingElse($_);    # Is this correct...
petemar1>         doSomethingElse($_[1]); # ...or is this correct?

Neither.  First argument is in $_[0].

petemar1>     } # end doSomething()

petemar1> ???

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sun Jan 18 19:09:48 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <86oet0vl5u.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIGECNDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>


Why not? What should I use?


-----Original Message-----
petemar1> On "juggling arguments:"
petemar1> When you have a...

petemar1>     sub doSomething(\$) {

Don't use prototypes!



From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sun Jan 18 19:12:53 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIGECNDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIGECNDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <86ad4kvj03.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "petemar1" == petemar1  <petemar1@perlmonk.org> writes:

petemar1> Why not? What should I use?

Nothing.

sub foo {
  my $first_arg = shift; # comment about first arg
  my $second_arg = shift; # comment about second arg
  my @remaining = @_; # comment about remaining

  ....

}

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 18 20:22:59 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Passing args to cpan
Message-ID: <010401c3de36$c9ea4680$6405a8c0@a30>

Hi,

I'm trying to install Inline::Java via cpan (cmd line)

But when I run:
cpan> install Inline::Java

I get:
Welcome to the Inline::Java installation procedure.

A Java 2 SDK is required to install and use Inline::Java. Please
specify your Java 2 SDK installation directory using the J2SDK
option to Makefile.PL as such:

    perl Makefile.PL J2SDK=/path/to/your/j2sdk/installation
Running make test
  Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't test
Running make install
  Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't install



I know how install this manually, but how would I do this inside the cpan
utility?

Thanks
Jay


From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 18 20:55:57 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Passing args to cpan
In-Reply-To: <010401c3de36$c9ea4680$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <010401c3de36$c9ea4680$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <20040119025557.GA27165@petdance.com>

>     perl Makefile.PL J2SDK=/path/to/your/j2sdk/installation
> 
> I know how install this manually, but how would I do this inside the cpan
> utility?

I don't think you can.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From skarol1 at uic.edu  Sun Jan 18 21:54:58 2004
From: skarol1 at uic.edu (Sachin Karol)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Newbie problem: Cannot get Hello World to run!
Message-ID: <000201c3de40$038ea8a0$4cacf880@xyz>

Hello,
      Hope the Perl gurus can help me with a typical newbie 
(I think!!) problem. 

After many hassles, I managed to load Suse 9 on my laptop.
I am now trying to learn Perl and am using the famed " Learning 
Perl" from OReilly. 

This is what my problem is:

I am trying to run the basic Hello World problem :-

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
print ("Hello, world!\n");

I tried to save this into a file named Hello, ran chmod +x on 
it and then typed Hello at the prompt. This is my output :-

bash: Hello: command not found

Then I tried using the following command :-

perl Hello

This is the output :-

print (...) interpreted as function at Hello line 2.
Hello, world!

and if I remove the first line and then run 'perl Hello', I am able 
to run the program properly.

What am I doing wrong? I thought that by including the path with 
the '#!' as the first line of the program would not require me to 
write perl at the command line. Is there something I am missing?
Running 'whereis perl' gives me:-

perl: /usr/bin/perl /usr/share/man/man1/perl.1.gz  

Please advice

Thanks
Sachin Karol





From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 18 22:00:47 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Newbie problem: Cannot get Hello World to run!
In-Reply-To: <000201c3de40$038ea8a0$4cacf880@xyz>
References: <000201c3de40$038ea8a0$4cacf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <20040119040047.GA27671@petdance.com>

> I am trying to run the basic Hello World problem :-
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> print ("Hello, world!\n");

First bummer is you don't need parens around the parms to print. 

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 18 22:17:27 2004
From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Newbie problem: Cannot get Hello World to run!
References: <000201c3de40$038ea8a0$4cacf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <Law10-OE58iPkp1ZKfY0001f1d2@hotmail.com>

Try ./Hello

Chris


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sachin Karol" <skarol1@uic.edu>
To: <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:54 PM
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Newbie problem: Cannot get Hello World to run!


> Hello,
>       Hope the Perl gurus can help me with a typical newbie 
> (I think!!) problem. 
> 
> After many hassles, I managed to load Suse 9 on my laptop.
> I am now trying to learn Perl and am using the famed " Learning 
> Perl" from OReilly. 
> 
> This is what my problem is:
> 
> I am trying to run the basic Hello World problem :-
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> print ("Hello, world!\n");
> 
> I tried to save this into a file named Hello, ran chmod +x on 
> it and then typed Hello at the prompt. This is my output :-
> 
> bash: Hello: command not found
> 
> Then I tried using the following command :-
> 
> perl Hello
> 
> This is the output :-
> 
> print (...) interpreted as function at Hello line 2.
> Hello, world!
> 
> and if I remove the first line and then run 'perl Hello', I am able 
> to run the program properly.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? I thought that by including the path with 
> the '#!' as the first line of the program would not require me to 
> write perl at the command line. Is there something I am missing?
> Running 'whereis perl' gives me:-
> 
> perl: /usr/bin/perl /usr/share/man/man1/perl.1.gz  
> 
> Please advice
> 
> Thanks
> Sachin Karol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sun Jan 18 22:30:21 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Passing args to cpan
In-Reply-To: <010401c3de36$c9ea4680$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <010401c3de36$c9ea4680$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <86vfn8tvad.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Jay" == Jay Strauss <me@heyjay.com> writes:

Jay> But when I run:
cpan> install Inline::Java

Jay> I get:
Jay> Welcome to the Inline::Java installation procedure.

Jay> A Java 2 SDK is required to install and use Inline::Java. Please
Jay> specify your Java 2 SDK installation directory using the J2SDK
Jay> option to Makefile.PL as such:

Jay>     perl Makefile.PL J2SDK=/path/to/your/j2sdk/installation
Jay> Running make test
Jay>   Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't test
Jay> Running make install
Jay>   Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't install

Yeah, sucks that some people don't "get it" about Makefile.PL, eh?

Here's how I do that:

cpan> look Inline::Java
... % perl Makefile.PL ....
... % make all test install
... % exit
cpan>

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 18 22:39:37 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Passing args to cpan
References: <010401c3de36$c9ea4680$6405a8c0@a30>
	<20040119025557.GA27165@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <016301c3de47$906ca770$6405a8c0@a30>

Hummmm, that sucks


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Lester" <andy@petdance.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Passing args to cpan


> >     perl Makefile.PL J2SDK=/path/to/your/j2sdk/installation
> >
> > I know how install this manually, but how would I do this inside the
cpan
> > utility?
>
> I don't think you can.
>
> xoa
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 18 22:52:18 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Passing args to cpan
References: <010401c3de36$c9ea4680$6405a8c0@a30>
	<86vfn8tvad.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <016f01c3de48$05896d90$6405a8c0@a30>

Thanks Randal.  I never understood what "look" did.

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Passing args to cpan


> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay Strauss <me@heyjay.com> writes:
>
> Jay> But when I run:
> cpan> install Inline::Java
>
> Jay> I get:
> Jay> Welcome to the Inline::Java installation procedure.
>
> Jay> A Java 2 SDK is required to install and use Inline::Java. Please
> Jay> specify your Java 2 SDK installation directory using the J2SDK
> Jay> option to Makefile.PL as such:
>
> Jay>     perl Makefile.PL J2SDK=/path/to/your/j2sdk/installation
> Jay> Running make test
> Jay>   Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't test
> Jay> Running make install
> Jay>   Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't install
>
> Yeah, sucks that some people don't "get it" about Makefile.PL, eh?
>
> Here's how I do that:
>
> cpan> look Inline::Java
> ... % perl Makefile.PL ....
> ... % make all test install
> ... % exit
> cpan>
>
> --
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777
0095
> <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl
training!
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:16:08 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Books and Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program,
	January 14
In-Reply-To: <20040115225903.GB7162@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040115225903.GB7162@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <1532840000.1074489367@[192.168.200.4]>


> - sendmail Cookbook

I'll take a shot at this one. Probably easiest if I pick
it up at the next tech meeting; else send it to the address
below.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:17:22 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] "File-scraping"
In-Reply-To: <20040116183505.GA32699@petdance.com>
References: <20040116033953.GA6410@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEBPDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
	<20040116155646.GA20973@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<20040116183505.GA32699@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <1534690000.1074489442@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>

>> Or if you prefer to use the shiny IO::File objects (as I do)
>>
>>     my $fh = IO::File->new();
>>     $fh->open( 'filename' );
>
> Why do you prefer them?
>
> Now that you can say
>
>    open my $fh, "foo";
>
> the big reason to use 'em (passing around to funcs easily) has gone
> away.  What else do you dig?

Setting attributes without having to play select games
for one. Querying the attr's another.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:19:55 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>
References: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <1536430000.1074489595@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>

> Is anyone interested in getting PM T-shirts printed up?  Prices look to
> be about $6 each, or $8 for the XXL (we know who we are).

If they're silk-screened (vs. polymer transfer) I'd pick
up a couple of XXL's; otherwise I'd take two large.

Did we ever come up with a logo? I remember taking the
issue up at least once but the details got rinsed away
with ethanol at the time :-)

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:23:09 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMECMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMECMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <1538580000.1074489789@[192.168.200.4]>



-- petemar1 <petemar1@perlmonk.org>

> On "juggling arguments:"
>
> When you have a...
>
>     sub doSomething(\$) {
>
>         doSomethingElse($_);    # Is this correct...
>         doSomethingElse($_[1]); # ...or is this correct?
>
>     } # end doSomething()

er, why not just drop the prototypes since they will
likely cause you more problems than they're worth,
use the standard passing and deal with is $_[0]?

	my $something = shift;

	ref $something or croak "Bogus something: arg not a referent";

	# add a separate test for ref $something ~= /FOOBAR/ if you
	# really care. at that point anyone following you has some
	# pretty specific internal docs on exactly what's going on
	# in the tests and error messages.


	$something->else;

or

	else $something;

or

	else shift;

or

	or $_[0]->else;



--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From skarol1 at uic.edu  Sun Jan 18 23:17:28 2004
From: skarol1 at uic.edu (Sachin Karol)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Newbie problem: Cannot get Hello World to run!
In-Reply-To: <200401190509.i0J590Y00794@mail.pm.org>
Message-ID: <000001c3de4b$8c1ed450$7baaf880@xyz>


Hi, 
Thanks for the tip. Actually I copied the example word for word from the
Learning Perl book. Would that be a misprint/error then?

Sachin

> I am trying to run the basic Hello World problem :-
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> print ("Hello, world!\n");

First bummer is you don't need parens around the parms to print. 

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester 



From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Sun Jan 18 23:18:41 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <1536430000.1074489595@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>
	<1536430000.1074489595@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <86ptdgsehc.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Steven" == Steven Lembark <lembark@wrkhors.com> writes:

Steven> -- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>

>> Is anyone interested in getting PM T-shirts printed up?  Prices look to
>> be about $6 each, or $8 for the XXL (we know who we are).

Steven> If they're silk-screened (vs. polymer transfer) I'd pick
Steven> up a couple of XXL's; otherwise I'd take two large.

Steven> Did we ever come up with a logo? I remember taking the
Steven> issue up at least once but the details got rinsed away
Steven> with ethanol at the time :-)

Perhaps I shouldn't give all my secrets away, but the vendor
Stonehenge has been using for the past few years for T-Shirts has been
doing front-and-back-printed two-color good quality shirts (admit it,
you have at least one!) for around $4.50 a piece, if the quantity is
appropriate.  No surprise, O'Reilly will be using them for this year's
OSCON shirts as well.

Lemme know if you wanna run an order.  I've done a few for other PM
groups already.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:31:38 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <86oet0vl5u.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMECMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
	<86oet0vl5u.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <1543280000.1074490298@[192.168.200.4]>



-- "Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@stonehenge.com>

> Don't use prototypes!

An example of why:

Pod shows an example of:

	 Parallel::Pvm::spawn( 'client', 4 );

or

	Parallel::Pvm::spawn( 'client', $count, SomeSetting, 4 );


ok, I try:

	my @argz = ( "$Bin/client", 1, @_ );

	Parallel::Pvm::spawn( @argz );

This fails because it needs at least two arguments. Except that
it HAS two arguments. Except that the prototype was written as
something like "$, $, @". No now instead of just passing a list
of arguments I get something like:

	my @argz = whatever...

	Parallel::Pvm::spawn( $argz[0], $argz[1], @argz[2..$#argz] );

This may seem enticing to Java or Python hackers but
certianly does not seem like anything I'd want to find
in Perl code I'm maintaining...

Stripping the use prototypes from the .xv file and .pm's has
cleaned things up on the perly side -- now I'm checking whether
it causes any errors for the internals or if I need some perl
wrappers for finicky xs calls.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:40:40 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <86ad4kvj03.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIGECNDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
	<86ad4kvj03.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <1546960000.1074490840@[192.168.200.4]>



-- "Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@stonehenge.com>

>>>>>> "petemar1" == petemar1  <petemar1@perlmonk.org> writes:
>
> petemar1> Why not? What should I use?
>
> Nothing.
>
> sub foo {
>   my $first_arg = shift; # comment about first arg
>   my $second_arg = shift; # comment about second arg
>   my @remaining = @_; # comment about remaining
>
>   ....
>
> }

Bit of context:

The calling standard in Perl is based on LISP: call by
reference with a list. The list elements are scalars.
This is one of the things that makes Perl so flexable;
its price is that you have to sanity-check arguments
explicitly in the code. This takes away a heavily used
crutch of pseudo-lazy development: letting the compiler
catch bad calls for you. The catch in Perl is that the
calling standard is sufficiently flexable that the
compiler probably isn't the right level to have this
stuff caught at.

If you want a bit more boilerplate use:

sub foo
{
	@_ or croak "Bogus foo: called without arguments";

	my $this = shift or croak "Bogus foo: false 'this'";
	my $that = shift or croak "Bogus foo: false 'that'";

	$this > 0 or croak "Bogus foo: $this <= zero";

	...
}

If the cost of making these tests is too expensive (e.g.,
a tight loop in a job that runs more than 1728000 times
a day then look up Class::Contract (which can easily be
turned off at compile time for better performance with
full call-level checking during development).


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From jason at multiply.org  Sun Jan 18 23:43:03 2004
From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <1536430000.1074489595@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <200401190502.i0J525E02705@tetsuo.mengelt.com>

I would be down for 2 L's. 


-jason scott gessner
    jason@multiply.org 


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:51:42 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Newbie problem: Cannot get Hello World to run!
In-Reply-To: <000201c3de40$038ea8a0$4cacf880@xyz>
References: <000201c3de40$038ea8a0$4cacf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <1554700000.1074491502@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Sachin Karol <skarol1@uic.edu>

> Hello,
>       Hope the Perl gurus can help me with a typical newbie
> (I think!!) problem.
>
> After many hassles, I managed to load Suse 9 on my laptop.
> I am now trying to learn Perl and am using the famed " Learning
> Perl" from OReilly.
>
> This is what my problem is:
>
> I am trying to run the basic Hello World problem :-
>
># !/usr/bin/perl -w
> print ("Hello, world!\n");

This may be more of a *NIX question than perl. Make
sure you're running the local copy of "Hello" first.
This is a somewhat overused name that may be in an
example somewhere else on your path. Hopefully you
don't have "." on the path anywhere...

./Hello;

would be one first guess.

You can also try the debugger to see what syntax should
work (good for following the tutorials also):

	$ perl -d -e 42;

	> print "Hello, world!\n"

should get you the output you are looking for. If that
blows up you can check the syntax before worrying about
#! code and shell issues.

After that works, edit the file, insert the lines, and
then double-check the name with "whereis name" (e.g.,
"whereis Hello"). If that turns up nothing then change
the mods to something like 0755 and run it via ./Hello.

At that point, given what you've shown, it seems likely
to work (since it did here on a SuSE box).

enjoi

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 18 23:53:33 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Newbie problem: Cannot get Hello World to run!
In-Reply-To: <000001c3de4b$8c1ed450$7baaf880@xyz>
References: <000001c3de4b$8c1ed450$7baaf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <1556750000.1074491613@[192.168.200.4]>


> First bummer is you don't need parens around the parms to print.

In an effort to save typesetting they assumed that '.'
was on the path (probably reasonable for a classroom
crash&burn box); you hope it isn't that way on your
notebook.

Aside: If you're still having problems with SuSE warn me,
the linux-laptops.org page has some useful items on it.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From flateyjarbok at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 07:04:25 2004
From: flateyjarbok at yahoo.com (Richard Solberg)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <20040119130425.38785.qmail@web14714.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com> wrote:
> Is anyone interested in getting PM T-shirts printed
> up?  Prices look to 
> be about $6 each, or $8 for the XXL (we know who we
> are).
> 

Put me down for one XL.  
Richard Solberg




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From flateyjarbok at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 07:04:40 2004
From: flateyjarbok at yahoo.com (Richard Solberg)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <20040119130440.53259.qmail@web14710.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com> wrote:
> Is anyone interested in getting PM T-shirts printed
> up?  Prices look to 
> be about $6 each, or $8 for the XXL (we know who we
> are).
> 

Put me down for one XL.  
Richard Solberg




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From ehs at pobox.com  Mon Jan 19 09:48:51 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <1536430000.1074489595@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <69A21C10-490C-11D8-B53A-000393BFA5FA@petdance.com>
	<1536430000.1074489595@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040119154851.GC14675@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 11:19:55PM -0600, Steven Lembark wrote:
> Did we ever come up with a logo? I remember taking the
> issue up at least once but the details got rinsed away
> with ethanol at the time :-)

Perhaps a visit to a local after the next meeting would fire up that
state-dependent memory, and we could come up with one. I know of at 
least one artist in our group that might be able to help out...

I'd be interested in a L too :)

//Ed


From JoeWinterPark at netscape.net  Mon Jan 19 11:39:26 2004
From: JoeWinterPark at netscape.net (Joe Strain)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
Message-ID: <40697B09.5986E2BF.BFE6A3E9@netscape.net>

I'd like to have one!!! XXL. Where do I order one?

Joe Strain
3471 Athena Dr
Winter Park, Fl  32792


merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote:

>>>>>> "Steven" == Steven Lembark <lembark@wrkhors.com> writes:
>
>Steven> -- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>
>
>>> Is anyone interested in getting PM T-shirts printed up? ?Prices look to
>>> be about $6 each, or $8 for the XXL (we know who we are).
>
>Steven> If they're silk-screened (vs. polymer transfer) I'd pick
>Steven> up a couple of XXL's; otherwise I'd take two large.
>
>Steven> Did we ever come up with a logo? I remember taking the
>Steven> issue up at least once but the details got rinsed away
>Steven> with ethanol at the time :-)
>
>Perhaps I shouldn't give all my secrets away, but the vendor
>Stonehenge has been using for the past few years for T-Shirts has been
>doing front-and-back-printed two-color good quality shirts (admit it,
>you have at least one!) for around $4.50 a piece, if the quantity is
>appropriate. ?No surprise, O'Reilly will be using them for this year's
>OSCON shirts as well.
>
>Lemme know if you wanna run an order. ?I've done a few for other PM
>groups already.
>
>-- 
>Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
><merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
>Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
>See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
>_______________________________________________
>Chicago-talk mailing list
>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


-- 
Regards,

Joe


__________________________________________________________________
New! Unlimited Netscape Internet Service.
Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register
Act now to get a personalized email address!

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From pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jan 19 14:55:23 2004
From: pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Patrick Fleury)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <40697B09.5986E2BF.BFE6A3E9@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040119125442.00a7fb90@128.135.32.3>

I'd take a XXL too.  (Oh, how I hate to mention that size.)

--PatF


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Mon Jan 19 13:02:49 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040119125442.00a7fb90@128.135.32.3>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040119125442.00a7fb90@128.135.32.3>
Message-ID: <53820000.1074538968@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Patrick Fleury <pfleury@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu>

> (Oh, how I hate to mention that size.)

If it helps any, Guiness has the same calories/carbs as
Bud Light...


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From shild at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 19 18:25:19 2004
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Books and Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program
In-Reply-To: <20040115225903.GB7162@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20040119182519.shild@sbcglobal.net>


I'll review the Learning Python Book.  I have a friend that is always
telling me what "nice" language it is, as I cross my arms in a defensive 
manner and tell him that I don't need Python I have Perl!  I guess it 
wouldn't hurt to expand my horizions a little more ;-)


On 15-Jan-2004 Ed Summers wrote:
> If you want to review any of the following titles let me know and I'll
> pass along the info: 
> 
> - Security Warrior
> - Perl Template Toolkit                       [PICK ME, PICK ME]
> - Learning Python, 2nd Edition
> - Running Mac OS X Panther
> - Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther
> - Postfix: The Definitive Guide
> - sendmail Cookbook
> - Apple Confidential 2.0
> - Degunking Windows 
> - Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition
> 
> ORA news follows:
> 
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly News for User Group Members
> January 14, 2004
> ================================================================
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Book News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Security Warrior
> -Perl Template Toolkit
> -Learning Python, 2nd Edition
> -Running Mac OS X Panther
> -Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther
> -Postfix: The Definitive Guide
> -sendmail Cookbook
> -Apple Confidential 2.0
> -Degunking Windows 
> -Windows Admin Scripting Little Black Book, Second Edition
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Upcoming Events
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Sanjay Mishra (Mastering Oracle SQL), Dallas, TX--January 15
> -O'Reilly at LinuxWorld, New York, NY--January 20-23, 2004  
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Conferences
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Digital Democracy Teach-In--February 9
> -OSCON Survey: Participate to Win
> -OSCON 2004: Call for Participation
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -O'Reilly Partners with No Starch, Paraglyph, and Syngress 
> -Quantum Dots and Programmable Matter
> -Global Developer Survey
> -The State of Perl 
> -Brian Behlendorf: Open Source Luminary
> -ONJava: 2003 in Review 
> -Design Considerations for Microsoft Smartphone Applications
> -New Data Controls in ASP.NET Whidbey
> -Cooking with ADO.NET
> -Dreamweaver MX 2004 for Mac OS X 
> -Confident Apple for 2004 
> -Control Your Mac with Your PDA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> News From Your Peers
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Northwest Oracle Users Group Winter Conference and Seminars, Bellevue
> WA--February 9-10
> -The St. Louis Web Developers Organization and local chapter of the
> IWA/HTML Writers Guild presents the 5th Annual Web Design Awards Ceremony,
> St Louis, MO--February 17
> ================================================
> Book News
> ================================================
> Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
> group? Ask your group leader for more information.
> 
> For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
> http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html
> 
> Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, 
> Paraglyph, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly.
> Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
> http://www.oreilly.com/
> 
> 
> ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at 
> least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer 
> applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico.
> For more details, go to:
> http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> O'Reilly New Releases
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Security Warrior
> ISBN: 0-596-00545-8
> "Security Warrior" is based on the principle that the only way to defend
> yourself is to understand your attacker in depth. "Security Warrior"
> reveals how your systems can be attacked, covering everything from reverse
> engineering to SQL attacks, and including topics like social engineering,
> antiforensics, and common attacks against UNIX and Windows systems. This
> book teaches you to know your enemy and how to be prepared to do battle. 
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swarrior/
> 
> Chapter 2, "Windows Reverse Engineering," is available online:
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/swarrior/chapter/index.html
> 
> 
> ***Perl Template Toolkit
> ISBN: 0-596-00476-1
> "Perl Template Toolkit" guides you through the entire process of
> installing, configuring, using, and extending the Template Toolkit.
> Written by core members of the technology's development team, the book
> begins with a fast-paced but thorough tutorial on building web content
> with the Template Toolkit, and then walks you through generating and using
> data files, particularly with XML. The book also provides detailed
> information on the Template Toolkit's modules, libraries, and tools, in
> addition to a complete reference manual.
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perltt/
> 
> Chapter 2, "A Complete Web Site Using Template Toolkit," is available
> online:
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perltt/chapter/index.html
> 
> 
> ***Learning Python, 2nd Edition
> ISBN: 0-596-00281-5
> "Learning Python, 2nd Edition" is a self-paced, comprehensive learning
> tool that allows programmers to focus on the core Python language in
> depth. Thoroughly updated, this guide introduces the basic elements of the
> latest release of Python, Python 2.3, and covers new features such as list
> comprehensions, nested scopes, and iterators/generators. The book also
> includes fresh overviews of object-oriented programming and dynamic
> typing, new discussions of program launch and configuration options, new
> coverage of documentation sources, and much more.
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/ 
> 
> Chapter 19, "OOP: The Big Picture," is available online:
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/chapter/index.html
> 
> 
> ***Running Mac OS X Panther
> ISBN: 0-596-00500-8
> "Running Mac OS X Panther" is the ultimate Swiss Army Knife for power
> users who want to customize, rev up, and get the most out of their Macs.
> The book takes readers deep inside Mac OS X's core, revealing the inner
> workings of Panther. Learn where Mac OS X came from, how it's put
> together, and how it works; get the tools you to need to examine how your
> Mac is running and adjust all the knobs behind its operation; and learn
> all the ways Mac OS X interfaces with the world around it.
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runmacxpanther/
> 
> 
> ***Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther
> ISBN: 0-596-00617-9
> "Learning Unix for Mac OS X Panther" provides a user-friendly tour of the
> Mac Unix base. You'll explore Terminal and familiarize yourself with the
> command line, learning as you go about the power and flexibility of the
> hundreds of Unix programs that come with your Mac. And if Unix isn't new
> to you, you'll discover how it translates into this latest Mac
> incarnation. Updated to cover Panther, this book will keep you current
> with the latest features of your Mac.
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lunixpanther/
> 
> Chapter 5, "Printing," is available online:
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lunixpanther/chapter/index.html
> 
> 
> ***Postfix: The Definitive Guide
> ISBN:0-596-00212-2
> "Postfix: The Definitive Guide" eases readers from the basic configuration
> to the full power of Postfix. It discusses the interfaces to various tools
> that round out a fully scalable and highly secure email system, tools
> including POP, IMAP, LDAP, MySQL, Simple Authentication and Security Layer
> (SASL), and Transport Layer Security (TLS, an upgrade of SSL). A reference
> section for Postfix configuration parameters and an installation guide are
> included. From compiling and installing Postfix to troubleshooting,
> "Postfix: The Definitive Guide" gives you an all-in-one, comprehensive
> tutorial and reference to this mail transfer agent.
> 
> 
> ***sendmail Cookbook
> ISBN: 0-596-00471-0
> "sendmail Cookbook" provides step-by-step solutions for administrators who
> need to solve configuration problems fast. Each recipe outlines a
> configuration problem, presents the code that solves that problem, and
> explains the code in detail. The book provides lots of material that
> doesn't get much coverage elsewhere: STARTTLS and AUTH are given entire
> chapters, and LDAP is covered in recipes throughout the book. Don't wade
> through dense documentation to work out custom solutions; just grab a
> recipe and solve the problem.
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sendmailckbk/
> 
> Sample Chapter 2, "Delivery and Forwarding," is available online:
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sendmailckbk/chapter/index.html
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Publishing Partners New Releases
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Apple Confidential 2.0: The Definitive History of the World's Most
> Colorful Company
> No Starch Press
> ISBN: 1-59327-010-0
> "Apple Confidential" examines the tumultuous history of America's
> best-known Silicon Valley start-up--from its legendary founding almost 30
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> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270100/
> 
> 
> ***Degunking Windows
> Paraglyph Press
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> application for your work.
> http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/13/dreamweaver.html
> 
> 
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> You can have an entertaining, inspiring keynote without introducing the
> next big thing. Apple and Steve Jobs did just that at Macworld SF '04, and
> it bodes well for the year ahead.
> http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/01/07/apple_2004.html
> 
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> must be something cool that the two can do together, right? There is, when
> you add Salling Software's Clicker to the mix. Clicker lets your Bluetooth
> devices (phones and PDAs) act as a remote control for your Mac. Dori
> Smith, coauthor of "Mac OS X Unwired," walks you through the install and
> use of Clicker, then looks at some examples of Clicker in action, using
> PowerPoint and iPhoto.
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> 
> Mac OS X Unwired
> ISBN:0-596-00508-3
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/macxunwire/index.html
> 
> ================================================
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> ================================================
> ***Northwest Oracle Users Group Winter Conference and Seminars, Bellevue
> WA--February 9-10
> Five parallel session tracks and 25 sessions on Monday the 9th.
> Two optional all-day seminars on Tuesday the 10th.
> The conference takes place at the Meydenbauer Center, Bellevue WA
> For more information, go to:
> http://www.nwoug.com
> 
> 
> ***The St. Louis Web Developers Organization and local chapter of the
> IWA/HTML Writers Guild presents the 5th Annual Web Design Awards Ceremony,
> St Louis, MO--February 17
> The event will be held at the St. Louis Science Center beginning at 6:00pm
> and is open to the public. Refreshments are provided and prizes will be
> given to the top 3 web page winners in 7 categories.
> For more information, go to:
> http://www.stlwebdev.org/resources/awards/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Scott T. Hildreth <shild@sbcglobal.net>
Date: 19-Jan-2004
Time: 18:16:51
----------------------------------

From skarol1 at uic.edu  Mon Jan 19 18:24:12 2004
From: skarol1 at uic.edu (Sachin Karol)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Perl Monger T-shirts 
In-Reply-To: <200401191800.i0JI0cj09012@mail.pm.org>
Message-ID: <000001c3deeb$bbd86df0$80aaf880@xyz>


Kindly sign me up for an 'L' sized T-shirt

Thanks
Sachin




From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 18:51:17 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <20040119130425.38785.qmail@web14714.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040120005117.50289.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>

All right already, I'm in too.

I, however, shall take a medium, since my XXL days are
long behind me at this point. :)

if ($jim->bicycling) {
  shirtsize--;
};

-Jim....

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Mon Jan 19 19:57:20 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <20040120005117.50289.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOEDFDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

I'll try a medium.


From andy at petdance.com  Mon Jan 19 23:13:33 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <000001c3deeb$bbd86df0$80aaf880@xyz>
References: <200401191800.i0JI0cj09012@mail.pm.org>
	<000001c3deeb$bbd86df0$80aaf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <20040120051333.GC31788@petdance.com>


Please note that I wasn't taking orders at this point.  I was just
trying to get an idea for how many people were interested.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Tue Jan 20 09:57:52 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BDB@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

Project: user on the company network accesses a webpage. The webpage will
display the username they logged into their local machine as (we use active
directory).

This is just one step but once I get this I can push forward with other
stuff.

does anyone know which modules or where I can start looking for information
on this?

mike 

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jan 20 11:23:06 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Perl Monger T-shirts
In-Reply-To: <20040120051333.GC31788@petdance.com>
References: <200401191800.i0JI0cj09012@mail.pm.org>
	<000001c3deeb$bbd86df0$80aaf880@xyz>
	<20040120051333.GC31788@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <32550000.1074619385@[192.168.100.3]>


> Please note that I wasn't taking orders at this point.  I was just
> trying to get an idea for how many people were interested.

Have an idea yet?


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From JoeWinterPark at netscape.net  Tue Jan 20 11:28:48 2004
From: JoeWinterPark at netscape.net (Joe Strain)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Perl Monger T-shirts
Message-ID: <201AB2F6.64B6A0A8.BFE6A3E9@netscape.net>

alot

Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com> wrote:

>
>Please note that I wasn't taking orders at this point. ?I was just
>trying to get an idea for how many people were interested.
>
>xoa
>
>-- 
>Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>_______________________________________________
>Chicago-talk mailing list
>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>


-- 
Regards,

Joe


__________________________________________________________________
New! Unlimited Netscape Internet Service.
Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register
Act now to get a personalized email address!

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jan 20 14:24:34 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BDB@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
References: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BDB@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <20040120202434.GA789@petdance.com>

> Project: user on the company network accesses a webpage. The webpage will
> display the username they logged into their local machine as (we use active
> directory).

That doesn't sound possible.  How can a web page know anything about the
user that's logged in?  That would be a huge security hole if some
arbitrary web page could know about the person.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Tue Jan 20 14:30:03 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BE5@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

I thought it would be a perl thing but actually it is a webserver thing.

Kinda learning this as I go.
IIS and other MS based webservers already capture the logon credentials you
supply to your localwork station.

there is a mod for apache called mod_ntlm that also does this for apache
based servers. Then its just a matter of pulling it from the %ENV variable
when that webpage is accessed.

Mike

From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 20 14:33:34 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically
In-Reply-To: <20040120202434.GA789@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <20040120203334.86407.qmail@web60201.mail.yahoo.com>

> That doesn't sound possible.  How can a web page
> know anything about the
> user that's logged in?  That would be a huge
> security hole if some
> arbitrary web page could know about the person.
> 

<inserts mandatory snarky remark about the fact that
it's a windows server in a windows environment and of
COURSE there are going to be huge security holes no
matter what>

-Jim....

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Tue Jan 20 15:31:19 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Login
In-Reply-To: <20040120203334.86407.qmail@web60201.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEDJDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>


WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed lets me login when I create a new
WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed') object and use the login() method, but I fail
to scrape search results. I do get results when login isn't necessary and I
create a WWW::Search('Ebay') object.

???



From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jan 20 15:38:55 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Login
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEDJDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <20040120203334.86407.qmail@web60201.mail.yahoo.com>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEDJDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <20040120213855.GM21507@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 03:31:19PM -0600, petemar1 wrote:
> WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed lets me login when I create a new
> WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed') object and use the login() method, but I fail
> to scrape search results. I do get results when login isn't necessary and I
> create a WWW::Search('Ebay') object.

So where's the code?

//Ed

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Tue Jan 20 15:42:47 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] RE: Login
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEDJDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIEEDKDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

I also created goLogin() using WWW::Mechanize and received the same results.

    ###
    # goLogin()
    #
    sub goLogin {
        my $a = WWW::Mechanize->new();

$a->get('http://signin.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?SignIn&UsingSSL=0&pUser
Id=username&
ru=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi1.ebay.com%2Faw-cgi%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayLogin&pp=pass
&pageType=174&i1=0')
;
        $a->submit_form(
            form_number => 2,
            fields => {
                userid   => $user,
                pass => $pass,
            },
        );
        print "logged in!\n";
    } # end goLogin()


-----Original Message-----
From: petemar1 [mailto:petemar1@perlmonk.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:31 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: Login



WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed lets me login when I create a new
WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed') object and use the login() method, but I fail
to scrape search results. I do get results when login isn't necessary and I
create a WWW::Search('Ebay') object.

???



From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Tue Jan 20 15:47:50 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Login
In-Reply-To: <20040120213855.GM21507@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOEDKDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

# :UNRESOLVED: login and scrape with WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed, MMP,
JAN/20/2004

my $oSearch = new WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed');

$oSearch->login($user, $pass);

my $sQuery = WWW::Search::escape_query("canon digital
camera  -battery -case -cable
-card -memory -camcorder");

$oSearch->native_query($sQuery);

print $oResult->url, "\n";

$oSearch->logout;



-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Ed Summers
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:39 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Login


On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 03:31:19PM -0600, petemar1 wrote:
> WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed lets me login when I create a new
> WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed') object and use the login() method, but I
fail
> to scrape search results. I do get results when login isn't necessary and
I
> create a WWW::Search('Ebay') object.

So where's the code?

//Ed
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jan 20 16:07:45 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Login
Message-ID: <20040120220745.GN21507@chloe.inkdroid.org>

petemar1 wrote:
> # :UNRESOLVED: login and scrape with WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed, MMP,
> JAN/20/2004
> 
> my $oSearch = new WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed');
> 
> $oSearch->login($user, $pass);
> 
> my $sQuery = WWW::Search::escape_query("canon digital
> camera  -battery -case -cable
> -card -memory -camcorder");
> 
> $oSearch->native_query($sQuery);
> 
> print $oResult->url, "\n";
> 
> $oSearch->logout;

First off, I don't know what Ebay::Completed is. Shouldn't that be

    my $oSearch = new WWW::Search( 'Ebay' );

The results of a search (your $oSearch object) can have many results. This
is why the docs [1] tell you to use the next_result() iterator to fetch
them. So instead of:

    print $oResult->url, "\n";

You need:

    while ( my $oResult = $oSearch->next_result() ) {
        print $oResult->url(), "\n";
    }

If you were using 'strict' you would've noticed that your $oResult
variable was never declared, because your program wouldn't compile!. There is 
rarely a reason not to have this at the top of your Perl program.

    use strict;

//Ed

[1] http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?WWW::Search::Ebay

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Tue Jan 20 16:27:38 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:01 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BE8@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

found it.
Apache::AuthenNTLM 
http://search.cpan.org/~speeves/Apache-AuthenNTLM-2.04/AuthenNTLM.pm

it is used in conjunction with mod_perl

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Tue Jan 20 18:30:29 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Login
In-Reply-To: <20040120220745.GN21507@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEDMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

Uh...Ed:

1. I do use strict; # ...!

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w

############################################################################
#
# FILE: ScrapeHandler.pm
#
# AUTHOR: Marc Peters
#
# PURPOSE:
# This is a "proof-of-concept" web-crawling application that performs
# "screen-scrapes" on ebay.com and stores info in a flat-file.
#
# USAGE:
#
#
# REFERENCES:
# ISBN 020-148-5672 (refactoring)
# ISBN 059-600-2890 (regex)
# ISBN 059-600-415X (regex pocket, NEW)
# ISBN 059-600-5776 (spidering hacks, NEW)
#
# REVISION HISTORY:
# Version 0.0.1, January 10, 2004: Started development.
#
# COMMENTS:
# Based on petemar1/ScrapeBay/ScrapeHandler.java,
# started November 26, 2003
#
############################################################################
#

use strict;
use warnings;
use FindBin::libs;
use IO::File;
use LWP::UserAgent;
use HTTP::Request;
use HTTP::Response;
use URI::Heuristic;
use WWW::Search;
use WWW::Search::Ebay;
use WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed;
use WWW::Mechanize;

# ...


2. # ...!!

# ...

    ###
    # scrape(regex)
    #
    # sub scrape {
    sub scrape(\$) { # :REFACTOR: MMP, JAN/18/2004

        unless (eval { # try

            my $oSearch = new WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed');

            $oSearch->login($user, $pass) || die "Can't login!";

            my $sQuery = WWW::Search::escape_query("canon digital
amera  -battery -case -cable -card -memory -camcorder");

            $oSearch->native_query($sQuery);

            print "\n searching  \n";

            open(TEMPFILE, "> tempfile.txt");

            my $n = 0;

            while (my $oResult = $oSearch->next_result()) {
                  #^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^HERE

                print TEMPFILE $oResult->url, "\n";

                print $oResult->url, "\n";

                $n++;
            }

            $oSearch->logout;

            close(TEMPFILE);

            snatch($_[0]) || die "SNATCH ERROR!"; # :REFACTOR: MMP,
JAN/18/2004

            getSeller();

            my $testvar = 0;

            1
        } ) # end unless()

        { die "\nSCRAPE ERROR!\n"; } # catch

    } # end Scrape()




3. # ...!!!

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:ANqNscq6EYIJ:search.cpan.org/~mthurn/WW
W-Search-Ebay-2.17/++%22ebay+completed%22+site:cpan.org&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Are you conspiring with "Kingpin" to undo me? DON'T WAIT FOR THE
TRANSLATION! ANSWER ME NOW! THE POWER OF GOOGLE COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF
GOOGLE COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF GOOGLE COMPELS YOU!

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:WMP-OYph1X8J:search.cpan.org/src/MTHURN
/WWW-Search-Ebay-2.18/ChangeLog++%22ebay+completed%22+site:cpan.org&hl=en&ie
=UTF-8

Must have been removed within the past week.

Even using Mechanize to login causes problems. The request returns
successfully but I'm unable to scrape completed auctions.




-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Ed Summers
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:08 PM
To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Login


petemar1 wrote:
> # :UNRESOLVED: login and scrape with WWW::Search::Ebay::Completed, MMP,
> JAN/20/2004
>
> my $oSearch = new WWW::Search('Ebay::Completed');
>
> $oSearch->login($user, $pass);
>
> my $sQuery = WWW::Search::escape_query("canon digital
> camera  -battery -case -cable
> -card -memory -camcorder");
>
> $oSearch->native_query($sQuery);
>
> print $oResult->url, "\n";
>
> $oSearch->logout;

First off, I don't know what Ebay::Completed is. Shouldn't that be

    my $oSearch = new WWW::Search( 'Ebay' );

The results of a search (your $oSearch object) can have many results. This
is why the docs [1] tell you to use the next_result() iterator to fetch
them. So instead of:

    print $oResult->url, "\n";

You need:

    while ( my $oResult = $oSearch->next_result() ) {
        print $oResult->url(), "\n";
    }

If you were using 'strict' you would've noticed that your $oResult
variable was never declared, because your program wouldn't compile!. There
is
rarely a reason not to have this at the top of your Perl program.

    use strict;

//Ed

[1] http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?WWW::Search::Ebay
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jan 20 18:55:05 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Login
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEDMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <20040120220745.GN21507@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEDMDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <20040121005505.GA32546@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 06:30:29PM -0600, petemar1 wrote:
> Uh...Ed:
> 1. I do use strict; # ...!

I'm glad to hear it :) The code [1] you sent to the list was attempting to 
use a variable ($oResult) which was not declared, so I assumed that
you didn't have strict on. 

As for #2 and #3 I can't help you. All I can say is WWW::Search::Ebay works
as advertised for me. 

//Ed

[1] http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/2004-January/000864.html

From me at heyjay.com  Wed Jan 21 09:12:36 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Sharing data between processes
Message-ID: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>

Hi,

What ways can I share an object (or complex data structure) between
processes?  I know I can share simple structures (arrays, hashes, scalars)
between threads, but I was trying to avoid threads.

thanks
Jay


From ehs at pobox.com  Wed Jan 21 09:31:27 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
Message-ID: <20040121153127.GC1116@chloe.inkdroid.org>

I caught this off the module-authors list. It looks like barbie is going
to be releasing a module to get at Outlook files if you are still
interested, and are running Perl under Windows. The module isn't on
CPAN yet, but there is a link below for grabbing the tarball.

//Ed

----- Forwarded message from Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk> -----

To: module-authors@perl.org
From: Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk>
Subject: Mail::Outlook module
Date: 21 Jan 2004 14:00:40 +0000

Dear Module Authors,

Since my initial attempts to send mail via Outlook attached to an Exchange server, I now have a set of modules that can also read email items within Outlook Mail Folders. Initially this was a module for me to learn how to use the Win32 API via Perl, but wondered whether it might be useful to anyone else.

My current name for the distribution is

Mail-Outlook

which includes the following modules:

Mail::Outlook
Mail::Outlook::Folder
Mail::Outlook::Message

Each uses an OO style interface, with the Mail::Outlook module being the master module that should be used to interface to the outside world.

I have two questions ....

1) Is this a distribution worth uploading to CPAN?
2) Is Mail::Outlook a suitable namespace or are there better suggestions?

The current version is available online [1] if anyone wanted to have a look at it.

[1] http://birmingham.pm.org/modules/Mail-Outlook-0.05.tar.gz

>From studying the MailBox distribution, there are distributions on CPAN, which read the Outlook Express folders and email messages (although badly named IMO as they only refer to the DBX extension, but that's another story), but nothing that refers to Outlook specifically.

All thoughts and suggestions gratefully accepted.

Additional:

DESCRIPTION

This module was written to overcome the problem of sending mail messages, 
where Microsoft (R) Outlook (R) is the only mail application available.
However, since it's inception the module has expanded to handle a range of 
Outlook mail functionality.

Note that when sending messages, the module uses the named owner of the 
Outbox MAPI Folder in order to access the correct objects. Thus the From 
field of a new message is predetermined, and a read only property.

If using the 'Win32::OLE::Const' constants, only the following are currently 
supported:

  olFolderInbox
  olFolderOutbox
  olFolderSentMail

DEPENDENCIES

The distribution requires the following modules:

  Win32::OLE
  Win32::OLE::Const

For testing purposes, the following modules are desirable, but not essential:

  Test::Pod


Barbie.
-- 
Barbie (@missbarbell.co.uk) | Birmingham Perl Mongers | http://birmingham.pm.org/

From andy at petdance.com  Wed Jan 21 10:06:08 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Fwd: [Mail::Outlook module: barbie@missbarbell.co.uk]
Message-ID: <20040121160608.GA2703@petdance.com>

Not sure who it was that was interested in Outlook, but here's some
stuff from Birmingham, England that you might be interested in...

xoa

----- Forwarded message from Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk> -----

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From: Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk>
Subject: Mail::Outlook module
Message-ID: <ECOWS08MtLLVTnE9Q3u00004e59@smtp-out8.blueyonder.co.uk>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jan 2004 14:00:40.0698 (UTC) FILETIME=[F434B5A0:01C3E026]
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Dear Module Authors,

Since my initial attempts to send mail via Outlook attached to an Exchange server, I now have a set of modules that can also read email items within Outlook Mail Folders. Initially this was a module for me to learn how to use the Win32 API via Perl, but wondered whether it might be useful to anyone else.

My current name for the distribution is

Mail-Outlook

which includes the following modules:

Mail::Outlook
Mail::Outlook::Folder
Mail::Outlook::Message

Each uses an OO style interface, with the Mail::Outlook module being the master module that should be used to interface to the outside world.

I have two questions ....

1) Is this a distribution worth uploading to CPAN?
2) Is Mail::Outlook a suitable namespace or are there better suggestions?

The current version is available online [1] if anyone wanted to have a look at it.

[1] http://birmingham.pm.org/modules/Mail-Outlook-0.05.tar.gz

>From studying the MailBox distribution, there are distributions on CPAN, which read the Outlook Express folders and email messages (although badly named IMO as they only refer to the DBX extension, but that's another story), but nothing that refers to Outlook specifically.

All thoughts and suggestions gratefully accepted.

Additional:

DESCRIPTION

This module was written to overcome the problem of sending mail messages, 
where Microsoft (R) Outlook (R) is the only mail application available.
However, since it's inception the module has expanded to handle a range of 
Outlook mail functionality.

Note that when sending messages, the module uses the named owner of the 
Outbox MAPI Folder in order to access the correct objects. Thus the From 
field of a new message is predetermined, and a read only property.

If using the 'Win32::OLE::Const' constants, only the following are currently 
supported:

  olFolderInbox
  olFolderOutbox
  olFolderSentMail

DEPENDENCIES

The distribution requires the following modules:

  Win32::OLE
  Win32::OLE::Const

For testing purposes, the following modules are desirable, but not essential:

  Test::Pod


Barbie.
-- 
Barbie (@missbarbell.co.uk) | Birmingham Perl Mongers | http://birmingham.pm.org/


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Wed Jan 21 13:39:56 2004
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Sharing data between processes
In-Reply-To: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <200401211939.i0LJdvZ03786@mail.pm.org>

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:12:36 -0600, "Jay Strauss" <me@heyjay.com> wrote:
> What ways can I share an object (or complex data structure) between
> processes?  I know I can share simple structures (arrays, hashes, scalars)
> between threads, but I was trying to avoid threads.

IPC::ShareLite is pretty easy to use, assuming you're running on a box
with sysv ipc (generally, not windows).  Using ShareLite would involve
storing/serializing the object to a location where another process can
retrieve it, so it's still not "sharing" in the sense of two processes
concurrently accessing a single object.

If you can't use IPC, you can mimic this by, for example, using
Storable and writing files to a directory (or pipe, or whatever).
Locking/concurrent access issues become a real potential problem,
naturally.

I don't know if anyone's ever written a solid RPC/RMI-type utility for
Perl (maybe PlRPC?).


--
Greg Fast
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 21 14:39:34 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Sharing data between processes
In-Reply-To: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <36910000.1074717574@[192.168.100.3]>


> What ways can I share an object (or complex data structure) between
> processes?  I know I can share simple structures (arrays, hashes, scalars)
> between threads, but I was trying to avoid threads.

(1) Shared memory (on same box).
(2) Message passing (multiple boxes).

In both cases you can use Data::Dumper or Storable (built
into the shared memory modue methinks) to pass the structure
values around between the tasks.

In most cases you're better off with some mechanism for
sending the data values across and having the remote side
populate an object for you with the values.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From ejanev2 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 21 14:44:02 2004
From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
In-Reply-To: <20040121153127.GC1116@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <20040121204402.5359.qmail@web60903.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

Thanks to Ed and Andy for remembering the issue.

I tried to install the module, and I immediately had a problem ( call me Mr. Problem if you
want :-).
Here are the extracts:

---------------------------------------------
C:\Perl\Z_Modules\Mail-Outlook-0.05>perl Makefile.PL
Checking if your kit is complete...
Looks good
Writing Makefile for Mail::Outlook

C:\Perl\Z_Modules\Mail-Outlook-0.05>make
Makefile:658: *** missing separator.  Stop.

C:\Perl\Z_MODU~1\MAIL-O~1.05>make test
Makefile:658: *** missing separator.  Stop.
---------------------------------------------

I tried to look into the "Makefile" but nothing specific for me on that line ( I am not
familiar with it ):

---------------------------------------------------------------------
pm_to_blib: $(TO_INST_PM)
	@$(PERLRUNINST) -MExtUtils::Install \
        -e "pm_to_blib(qw[ <<pmfiles.dat ],'$(INST_LIB)\auto','$(PM_FILTER)')"

$(PM_TO_BLIB)
<<
		@$(TOUCH) $@


# --- MakeMaker selfdocument section:


# --- MakeMaker postamble section:


# End.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The line with "$(PM_TO_BLIB)" is 658th.

If you have suceeded installing this modulet, 

By the way, the file "Outlook.pst" of 1.8 GB is not attached to runnign outlook, but archived
on other place ( as trying to import it was making outlook not responding ). Possibly it is
corrupted.

Thanks,
Emil

--- Ed Summers <ehs@pobox.com> wrote:
> I caught this off the module-authors list. It looks like barbie is going
> to be releasing a module to get at Outlook files if you are still
> interested, and are running Perl under Windows. The module isn't on
> CPAN yet, but there is a link below for grabbing the tarball.
> 
> //Ed
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk> -----
> 
> To: module-authors@perl.org
> From: Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk>
> Subject: Mail::Outlook module
> Date: 21 Jan 2004 14:00:40 +0000
> 
> Dear Module Authors,
> 
> Since my initial attempts to send mail via Outlook attached to an Exchange server, I now
> have a set of modules that can also read email items within Outlook Mail Folders. Initially
> this was a module for me to learn how to use the Win32 API via Perl, but wondered whether
> it might be useful to anyone else.
> 
> My current name for the distribution is
> 
> Mail-Outlook
> 
> which includes the following modules:
> 
> Mail::Outlook
> Mail::Outlook::Folder
> Mail::Outlook::Message
> 
> Each uses an OO style interface, with the Mail::Outlook module being the master module that
> should be used to interface to the outside world.
> 
> I have two questions ....
> 
> 1) Is this a distribution worth uploading to CPAN?
> 2) Is Mail::Outlook a suitable namespace or are there better suggestions?
> 
> The current version is available online [1] if anyone wanted to have a look at it.
> 
> [1] http://birmingham.pm.org/modules/Mail-Outlook-0.05.tar.gz
> 
> >From studying the MailBox distribution, there are distributions on CPAN, which read the
> Outlook Express folders and email messages (although badly named IMO as they only refer to
> the DBX extension, but that's another story), but nothing that refers to Outlook
> specifically.
> 
> All thoughts and suggestions gratefully accepted.
> 
> Additional:
> 
> DESCRIPTION
> 
> This module was written to overcome the problem of sending mail messages, 
> where Microsoft (R) Outlook (R) is the only mail application available.
> However, since it's inception the module has expanded to handle a range of 
> Outlook mail functionality.
> 
> Note that when sending messages, the module uses the named owner of the 
> Outbox MAPI Folder in order to access the correct objects. Thus the From 
> field of a new message is predetermined, and a read only property.
> 
> If using the 'Win32::OLE::Const' constants, only the following are currently 
> supported:
> 
>   olFolderInbox
>   olFolderOutbox
>   olFolderSentMail
> 
> DEPENDENCIES
> 
> The distribution requires the following modules:
> 
>   Win32::OLE
>   Win32::OLE::Const
> 
> For testing purposes, the following modules are desirable, but not essential:
> 
>   Test::Pod
> 
> 
> Barbie.
> -- 
> Barbie (@missbarbell.co.uk) | Birmingham Perl Mongers | http://birmingham.pm.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 21 14:45:13 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Sharing data between processes
In-Reply-To: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <37020000.1074717913@[192.168.100.3]>


> What ways can I share an object (or complex data structure) between
> processes?  I know I can share simple structures (arrays, hashes, scalars)
> between threads, but I was trying to avoid threads.

Depending on how tightly coupled the proc's are in their
handling of the object you may have one of the few cases
where threads are really useful.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 21 14:48:11 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSCON/YAPC, was: Perl CookBook 2nd Edition Review
In-Reply-To: <20040112171605.GC31204@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040112155429.GB31204@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<OFA7AA9BAD.8A8B2CD7-ON86256E19.005D3053-86256E19.005D3171@uscmail.uscourts.
	gov> <20040112171605.GC31204@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <37290000.1074718091@[192.168.100.3]>


> June 16-18 at the University of Buffalo. More info here [1]. Would you go
> along the north shore of Lake Michigan, or along the south? :-)

Unlikely I can make it if I'm working since I'll be shuffling
along the Cote'd Azur the week after :-) If I'm between jobs
it's easy enough for me to get four people up there -- I'll
know in May.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Wed Jan 21 15:23:09 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BF2@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

Ok Guys,

Apache::AuthenNTLM I couldn't get to work. I keept getting errors, and well
I couldn't find any support for it either. Altho I got an email back from
the authors it didn't help. so I abandonded that module.

I did find the following apache module tho @ http://modntlm.sourceforge.net/
and it worked great with minimal configuration and well and extreamly easy
install.

It was tested/written on Linux. I built it on a sparc running solaris8 w/ no
problems. I couldn't have asked for an easier setup.

The modules authenticates any useres accessing your webpage and the username
is captured in $ENV{REMOTE_USER}.

Just thought I would pass this along.

Case Closed,
mike

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Dooley, Michael
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:28 PM
To: 'Chicago.pm chatter'
Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically


found it.
http://search.cpan.org/~speeves/Apache-AuthenNTLM-2.04/AuthenNTLM.pm

it is used in conjunction with mod_perl
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Wed Jan 21 18:47:22 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mechanize eBay
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BF2@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEECDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

Has anyone ever successfully logged in to eBay using WWW::Mechanize?

From jason at multiply.org  Wed Jan 21 18:58:44 2004
From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
In-Reply-To: <20040121204402.5359.qmail@web60903.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040121204402.5359.qmail@web60903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20F04FBE-4C76-11D8-B1A9-00039394FC90@multiply.org>

when i had this problem it was due to spaces in the PATH environment 
variable or the path to the files.

check for the first and if that is ok, try moving to a dir with no 
spaces.

-jason scott gessner
     jason@multiply.org

On Jan 21, 2004, at 2:44 PM, Emil Janev wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks to Ed and Andy for remembering the issue.
>
> I tried to install the module, and I immediately had a problem ( call 
> me Mr. Problem if you
> want :-).
> Here are the extracts:
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> C:\Perl\Z_Modules\Mail-Outlook-0.05>perl Makefile.PL
> Checking if your kit is complete...
> Looks good
> Writing Makefile for Mail::Outlook
>
> C:\Perl\Z_Modules\Mail-Outlook-0.05>make
> Makefile:658: *** missing separator.  Stop.
>
> C:\Perl\Z_MODU~1\MAIL-O~1.05>make test
> Makefile:658: *** missing separator.  Stop.
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> I tried to look into the "Makefile" but nothing specific for me on 
> that line ( I am not
> familiar with it ):
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> pm_to_blib: $(TO_INST_PM)
> 	@$(PERLRUNINST) -MExtUtils::Install \
>         -e "pm_to_blib(qw[ <<pmfiles.dat 
> ],'$(INST_LIB)\auto','$(PM_FILTER)')"
>
> $(PM_TO_BLIB)
> <<
> 		@$(TOUCH) $@
>
>
> # --- MakeMaker selfdocument section:
>
>
> # --- MakeMaker postamble section:
>
>
> # End.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The line with "$(PM_TO_BLIB)" is 658th.
>
> If you have suceeded installing this modulet,
>
> By the way, the file "Outlook.pst" of 1.8 GB is not attached to 
> runnign outlook, but archived
> on other place ( as trying to import it was making outlook not 
> responding ). Possibly it is
> corrupted.
>
> Thanks,
> Emil
>
> --- Ed Summers <ehs@pobox.com> wrote:
>> I caught this off the module-authors list. It looks like barbie is 
>> going
>> to be releasing a module to get at Outlook files if you are still
>> interested, and are running Perl under Windows. The module isn't on
>> CPAN yet, but there is a link below for grabbing the tarball.
>>
>> //Ed
>>
>> ----- Forwarded message from Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk> -----
>>
>> To: module-authors@perl.org
>> From: Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk>
>> Subject: Mail::Outlook module
>> Date: 21 Jan 2004 14:00:40 +0000
>>
>> Dear Module Authors,
>>
>> Since my initial attempts to send mail via Outlook attached to an 
>> Exchange server, I now
>> have a set of modules that can also read email items within Outlook 
>> Mail Folders. Initially
>> this was a module for me to learn how to use the Win32 API via Perl, 
>> but wondered whether
>> it might be useful to anyone else.
>>
>> My current name for the distribution is
>>
>> Mail-Outlook
>>
>> which includes the following modules:
>>
>> Mail::Outlook
>> Mail::Outlook::Folder
>> Mail::Outlook::Message
>>
>> Each uses an OO style interface, with the Mail::Outlook module being 
>> the master module that
>> should be used to interface to the outside world.
>>
>> I have two questions ....
>>
>> 1) Is this a distribution worth uploading to CPAN?
>> 2) Is Mail::Outlook a suitable namespace or are there better 
>> suggestions?
>>
>> The current version is available online [1] if anyone wanted to have 
>> a look at it.
>>
>> [1] http://birmingham.pm.org/modules/Mail-Outlook-0.05.tar.gz
>>
>>> From studying the MailBox distribution, there are distributions on 
>>> CPAN, which read the
>> Outlook Express folders and email messages (although badly named IMO 
>> as they only refer to
>> the DBX extension, but that's another story), but nothing that refers 
>> to Outlook
>> specifically.
>>
>> All thoughts and suggestions gratefully accepted.
>>
>> Additional:
>>
>> DESCRIPTION
>>
>> This module was written to overcome the problem of sending mail 
>> messages,
>> where Microsoft (R) Outlook (R) is the only mail application 
>> available.
>> However, since it's inception the module has expanded to handle a 
>> range of
>> Outlook mail functionality.
>>
>> Note that when sending messages, the module uses the named owner of 
>> the
>> Outbox MAPI Folder in order to access the correct objects. Thus the 
>> From
>> field of a new message is predetermined, and a read only property.
>>
>> If using the 'Win32::OLE::Const' constants, only the following are 
>> currently
>> supported:
>>
>>   olFolderInbox
>>   olFolderOutbox
>>   olFolderSentMail
>>
>> DEPENDENCIES
>>
>> The distribution requires the following modules:
>>
>>   Win32::OLE
>>   Win32::OLE::Const
>>
>> For testing purposes, the following modules are desirable, but not 
>> essential:
>>
>>   Test::Pod
>>
>>
>> Barbie.
>> -- 
>> Barbie (@missbarbell.co.uk) | Birmingham Perl Mongers | 
>> http://birmingham.pm.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago-talk mailing list
>> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From me at heyjay.com  Wed Jan 21 22:02:55 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Sharing data between processes
References: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
	<37020000.1074717913@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <003601c3e09c$9eaacea0$6405a8c0@a30>

I've been using threads for this thing.  I'd just like to do it in a way
that
doesn't require threads, since thread support isn't built into perl (in most
cases).  My process is such (pseudo code/process):

customCode->new;
tws->new($customCode);
tws->connect
   # inside of connect {
   #    reader->new($customCode);
   #    reader->start;
   #    # which starts a new thread which sits on a socket reading messages
   #    # and calling method in the customCode

# now I do stuff like:
$tws->reqMktData('IBM');
$tws->placeOrder(...);

# meanwhile reader is get market quotes and populating a array in
# $customCode, which I can get at from $tws

I'm just trying to do it, maybe with processes, and avoid threads.
 Maybe storable will work.  I'll have to play with it.

Oh yeah, I'd like it to work on Windows too

Jay



----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lembark" <lembark@wrkhors.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Sharing data between processes


>
> > What ways can I share an object (or complex data structure) between
> > processes?  I know I can share simple structures (arrays, hashes,
scalars)
> > between threads, but I was trying to avoid threads.
>
> Depending on how tightly coupled the proc's are in their
> handling of the object you may have one of the few cases
> where threads are really useful.
>
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From me at heyjay.com  Wed Jan 21 22:29:36 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
Message-ID: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>

Hi,

After reading the Storable.pm doc.  I can see how I could store a
datastructure to a file, and read from that file in a different process to
reconstruct that data structure.  But I don't see how you'd do it with out a
file.

What I'd like to do is store a datastructure to a place in memory, and read
(only) that memory from a different process.

can this be done?

Thanks
Jay


From ejanev2 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 22 09:29:37 2004
From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Extracting info from Outlook's *.pst files
In-Reply-To: <20F04FBE-4C76-11D8-B1A9-00039394FC90@multiply.org>
Message-ID: <20040122152937.47147.qmail@web60903.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

Jason, thanks for the suggestion.
I checked the path and it appear fine - no space in it.
No space in the directory where the "make" was tried too.

I'll rather maybe for official module, if it appears.

In the meantime: With some Demo tool "ForMorph" ( I find it searching Google ), it was
possible for obtaining 500 Char. limit per message with names, subjects dates, and contents
but without attachemts. This could be usefull ( better than nothing ) if no any means is
left.
Also I was told that Microsoft has some tool for breaking big "*.pst" files into the smaller
ones. this optoin is open.
Our administrative assistant is not too woried about the loss, so I won't be too :-)

Cheers,
Emil

--- jason scott gessner <jason@multiply.org> wrote:
> when i had this problem it was due to spaces in the PATH environment 
> variable or the path to the files.
> 
> check for the first and if that is ok, try moving to a dir with no 
> spaces.
> 
> -jason scott gessner
>      jason@multiply.org
> 
> On Jan 21, 2004, at 2:44 PM, Emil Janev wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks to Ed and Andy for remembering the issue.
> >
> > I tried to install the module, and I immediately had a problem ( call 
> > me Mr. Problem if you
> > want :-).
> > Here are the extracts:
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > C:\Perl\Z_Modules\Mail-Outlook-0.05>perl Makefile.PL
> > Checking if your kit is complete...
> > Looks good
> > Writing Makefile for Mail::Outlook
> >
> > C:\Perl\Z_Modules\Mail-Outlook-0.05>make
> > Makefile:658: *** missing separator.  Stop.
> >
> > C:\Perl\Z_MODU~1\MAIL-O~1.05>make test
> > Makefile:658: *** missing separator.  Stop.
> > ---------------------------------------------
> >
> > I tried to look into the "Makefile" but nothing specific for me on 
> > that line ( I am not
> > familiar with it ):
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > pm_to_blib: $(TO_INST_PM)
> > 	@$(PERLRUNINST) -MExtUtils::Install \
> >         -e "pm_to_blib(qw[ <<pmfiles.dat 
> > ],'$(INST_LIB)\auto','$(PM_FILTER)')"
> >
> > $(PM_TO_BLIB)
> > <<
> > 		@$(TOUCH) $@
> >
> >
> > # --- MakeMaker selfdocument section:
> >
> >
> > # --- MakeMaker postamble section:
> >
> >
> > # End.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The line with "$(PM_TO_BLIB)" is 658th.
> >
> > If you have suceeded installing this modulet,
> >
> > By the way, the file "Outlook.pst" of 1.8 GB is not attached to 
> > runnign outlook, but archived
> > on other place ( as trying to import it was making outlook not 
> > responding ). Possibly it is
> > corrupted.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Emil
> >


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Jan 22 10:00:04 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mechanize eBay
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEECDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEECDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <17600000.1074787204@[192.168.100.3]>


> Has anyone ever successfully logged in to eBay using WWW::Mechanize?

Quite probably.



--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Thu Jan 22 10:03:10 2004
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <200401221603.i0MG3Ci13596@mail.pm.org>

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:29:36 -0600, "Jay Strauss" <me@heyjay.com> wrote:
> After reading the Storable.pm doc.  I can see how I could store a
> datastructure to a file, and read from that file in a different process to
> reconstruct that data structure.  But I don't see how you'd do it with out a
> file.
> 
> What I'd like to do is store a datastructure to a place in memory, and read
> (only) that memory from a different process.

AFAIK you can't just share memory between processes in a
platform-independant way (there's IPC, but you said you'd like to have
it work on windows too).

>From your description, perhaps a DBM file accessed by the two
processes would work well?  The "writer" can write records to the db
as they're read, and the "reader" can just open the db read-only.
I don't know if windows would give you "sharing violations" (bah).


--
Greg Fast
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Jan 22 10:35:26 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Sharing data between processes
In-Reply-To: <003601c3e09c$9eaacea0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <006f01c3e031$023939f0$6405a8c0@a30>
	<37020000.1074717913@[192.168.100.3]>
	<003601c3e09c$9eaacea0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <17840000.1074789325@[192.168.100.3]>


> I've been using threads for this thing.  I'd just like to do it in a way
> that
> doesn't require threads, since thread support isn't built into perl (in
> most cases).  My process is such (pseudo code/process):

5.8 has it if you're using that. The support is a bit
bulky, but does work reliably.

Shared memory allows you to exchange data easily (via
storable). One decent approach is to have the package
name into which the item is blessed built into the data
structure. At that point you can use something like:

    sub shared_obj
    {
        my $shmkey = shift;
        my $shared_memory_item = $shared_memory_items{$shmkey};

        bless $shared_memory_item, $shared_memory_item->{class}
            or croak "Bogus '$shmkey': unable to bless it";
    }

For the most part since shared memory uses storable the
best thing to do is store a fairly simple structure (i.e.,
one that doesn't face deep vs. shallow copy issues. A
single-level hash works nicely for most things, with the
entire hash being stored in the shared memory or delivered
as a message:

	$shared_mem_seg = %hash;

or

	Parallel::Pvm::pack Dumper %hash;

In that case the other side can extract the shared memory
(standardized via storable) or eval it back into a unit
from Dumper. Note that this will not pass around sub's so
you have to deal with them via some sort of jump table or
only use the result objectively:

	my %hash = whatever;

	my $obj = bless \%hash, $hash->{class};

	# use $obj->can to sanity check the object

One trick I use is to add an "init" sub to any classes
whose objects get passed around the cluster. This gives
one quick sanity check:

	# convert a data strucutre sucked out of a message
	# into an object. the caller passes the appropriate
	# class in as the first argument, whatever's left
	# are the initializing args for that class.

	sub init_shared
	{
		# given that the class exists, it should have both
		# "construct" and "init" methods. easier to check
		# up here and give a more speicfic error message.

		my $class = shift
			or croak "Bogus init_shared: false class";

		my $cons = $class->can('construct')
			or croak "Bogus init_shared: $class cannot construct";

		my $init = $class->can('init')
			or croak "Bogus init_shared: $class cannot init";

		# construct a new, empty object. all this really
		# has to do in most cases is a one-liner to bless
		# an approparite data structure.

		my $obj = $class->$cons;
			
		# caller gets back the result of initializing
		# the object.
		#
		# becuase the object passed back is
		# not just a blessed copy of the input argument
		# the data structures can be different (for example,
		# the object may be a blessed file handle or
		# lazy object built from data passed across in the
		# mesage. passing @_ allows the initializer to
		# diddle its arguments if necessary (e.g., populating
		# poritons of the data structure that do not move
		# well across the network).

		$obj->$init( @_ )
	}



--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Jan 22 10:43:25 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <24850000.1074789804@[192.168.100.3]>


> After reading the Storable.pm doc.  I can see how I could store a
> datastructure to a file, and read from that file in a different process to
> reconstruct that data structure.  But I don't see how you'd do it with
> out a file.

The shared memory module uses Storable for anything that
gets put into shared memory segments.

You can also use it for messages. Any of:

	my $payload = storable $blah;

	my $payload = Dumper $blah;

	my $payload = freeze $blah;

allow you to:

	Parallel::Pvm::pack $payload;

and have the item stuffed into the body of a message.

The nice thing about PVM is that it deals with most of the
message passing init sections, finding hosts, setting up
sockets, and whatnot. It also runs as a user-space process
so that you don't need SU to run things in a cluster. Its
pack and unpack sub's will happily stuff the result of
storing, freezing, or Dumping a structure.

Again, the main issue is making sure that you don't try
to pass things that don't travel well: file handles (vs.
paths or URI's), sockets, anon subs and closures, or
offsets into local arrays that may not have been built
identically between the machines (nice thing about hashes).

enjoi

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Jan 22 10:48:55 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <200401221603.i0MG3Ci13596@mail.pm.org>
References: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
	<200401221603.i0MG3Ci13596@mail.pm.org>
Message-ID: <41400000.1074790135@[192.168.100.3]>


> From your description, perhaps a DBM file accessed by the two
> processes would work well?  The "writer" can write records to the db
> as they're read, and the "reader" can just open the db read-only.
> I don't know if windows would give you "sharing violations" (bah).

No good way to share a DBM file between proc's on hetro O/S
boxes that I know of. Probably simpler to use message passing
to move data structures used to init the objects. If you need
persistence then have a master node store the permenant copies
via tie.

DBI might work for this. Combined with a bit of MySQL it'd
give you a way to exchange the data over a network at the
expense of having to glob-ify it in MySQL. You could tie a
hash in each of the proc's to MySQL (i.e., relational instead
of ISAM) and use DBI for your message passing via query on
a set of passed-around keys.

The catch is finding a reliable way to pass the keys around,
which requires messages, which leaves messages as the most
reasonable way to pass simple data structures around in the
first place.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From jt at plainblack.com  Thu Jan 22 11:03:27 2004
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSS Chicago Tonight
Message-ID: <web-762128@plainblack.com>

Just wanted to remind everyone that OSS Chicago is tonight at 7pm at the same place we 
do the PM tech meetings. Tonights topic is OSS Security Tools. There will be free 
beverages and its a good topic, so if you're free come check it out.

Next month's topic is OSS Content Management Systems.


JT ~ Plain Black

Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. 

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Thu Jan 22 13:49:34 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFD@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

cc is a link to /usr/local/bin/gcc
gcc version 3.3.2

Use which C compiler? [cc]
cc: `-b' must come at the start of the command line
Uh-oh, the C compiler 'cc' doesn't seem to be working.
cc: `-b' must come at the start of the command line
Uh-oh, the C compiler 'cc' doesn't seem to be working.
You need to find a working C compiler.
Either (purchase and) install the C compiler supplied by your OS vendor,
or for a free C compiler try http://gcc.gnu.org/
I cannot continue any further, aborting.

I just installed the binary package of gcc 2 mins ago.

Mike

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Thu Jan 22 13:54:50 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFD@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <OF836A2B05.E50037C1-ON86256E23.006D3622-86256E23.006D708F@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Do a 
which cc

Probably Suns shell of cc is in there first.  Either rename it or make 
sure its path is at the end of your PATH (you'll want/need /usr/ccs/bin to 
be in your PATH too, for things like 'ar' though I copied/ln -s ar and 
others to /usr/bin).

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Thu Jan 22 14:04:18 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFE@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

QGAOM001:/dbexport/install/perl-5.8.3# which cc
/usr/local/bin/cc
QGAOM001:/dbexport/install/perl-5.8.3# ls -l /usr/local/bin/cc
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     system        18 Jun 24 2002  /usr/local/bin/cc ->
/usr/local/bin/gcc
QGAOM001:/dbexport/install/perl-5.8.3#

its not sun. its aix.

but I do have /usr/ccs in my path also.

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of
Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 1:55 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3


Do a 
which cc

Probably Suns shell of cc is in there first.  Either rename it or make 
sure its path is at the end of your PATH (you'll want/need /usr/ccs/bin to 
be in your PATH too, for things like 'ar' though I copied/ln -s ar and 
others to /usr/bin).

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Thu Jan 22 14:15:39 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFE@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <OFD9FDE2BD.73A250AA-ON86256E23.006F15AC-86256E23.006F5870@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Hmm so:
/usr/local/bin/cc -b ...

gets the same msg?
gcc -b ...
gets?  'cause you can often to
make CC=gcc (or is it
CC=gcc make
to get gcc itself as the compiler.  Depends upon how well behaved the rest 
of the make is.

(oh, and is that /usr/ccs/ or /usr/ccs/bin?) - sorry, Solaris says the 
same sort of "you must buy ..." stuff so, I guessed ;->.

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Thu Jan 22 14:46:47 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51C00@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

well when the question askes for which compiler you are using I have tried:
cc (default)
/usr/local/bin/cc
/usr/local/bin/gcc

and I get the same error (because they are all the same)

I have both /usr/ccs and /usr/ccs/bin.

im really at a loss. 

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of
Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:16 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3


Hmm so:
/usr/local/bin/cc -b ...

gets the same msg?
gcc -b ...
gets?  'cause you can often to
make CC=gcc (or is it
CC=gcc make
to get gcc itself as the compiler.  Depends upon how well behaved the rest 
of the make is.

(oh, and is that /usr/ccs/ or /usr/ccs/bin?) - sorry, Solaris says the 
same sort of "you must buy ..." stuff so, I guessed ;->.

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From me at heyjay.com  Thu Jan 22 22:10:04 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
References: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30><200401221603.i0MG3Ci13596@mail.pm.org>
	<41400000.1074790135@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <008301c3e166$c8d40dc0$6405a8c0@a30>

Steve & Greg,

I want to avoid an RDBMS.  Maybe using a DBM but what's wrong with the code
below?  Seems nice and simple, but maybe I'm missing something.  Although
I'd like to avoid a file all together.

The writer process writes maybe 200,000 times a day (guessing), but the
writes are sporadic, a couple a second then none for 5 seconds.  The reader
is an on demand service, maybe a thousandish a day

Jay

#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use Storable qw(store retrieve freeze thaw);

my %data = IBM=>{last=>0};
my $s;

if (my $pid = fork) {
        parent();
}
else {
        child();
}

sub parent {

        while (1) {
                sleep 2;
                my $data = retrieve('/tmp/jstrauss');
                print $data->{IBM}{last},"\n";
        }

}

sub child {

        foreach (0..60) {
                sleep 1;
                $data{IBM}{last} = $_;
                store(\%data,'/tmp/jstrauss');

        }
}

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lembark" <lembark@wrkhors.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2
processes


>
> > From your description, perhaps a DBM file accessed by the two
> > processes would work well?  The "writer" can write records to the db
> > as they're read, and the "reader" can just open the db read-only.
> > I don't know if windows would give you "sharing violations" (bah).
>
> No good way to share a DBM file between proc's on hetro O/S
> boxes that I know of. Probably simpler to use message passing
> to move data structures used to init the objects. If you need
> persistence then have a master node store the permenant copies
> via tie.
>
> DBI might work for this. Combined with a bit of MySQL it'd
> give you a way to exchange the data over a network at the
> expense of having to glob-ify it in MySQL. You could tie a
> hash in each of the proc's to MySQL (i.e., relational instead
> of ISAM) and use DBI for your message passing via query on
> a set of passed-around keys.
>
> The catch is finding a reliable way to pass the keys around,
> which requires messages, which leaves messages as the most
> reasonable way to pass simple data structures around in the
> first place.
>
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From me at heyjay.com  Thu Jan 22 22:51:08 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
References: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
	<20040122160322.58B772DAC43@mail2.zoneedit.com>
Message-ID: <009901c3e16c$855566b0$6405a8c0@a30>

Hey that IPC::ShareLite is pretty neat.  Works for me, screw the people on
windows, they can write to a file

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Fast" <gdf@speakeasy.net>
To: "Jay Strauss" <me@heyjay.com>
Cc: "chicago-pm" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2
processes


> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:29:36 -0600, "Jay Strauss" <me@heyjay.com> wrote:
> > After reading the Storable.pm doc.  I can see how I could store a
> > datastructure to a file, and read from that file in a different process
to
> > reconstruct that data structure.  But I don't see how you'd do it with
out a
> > file.
> >
> > What I'd like to do is store a datastructure to a place in memory, and
read
> > (only) that memory from a different process.
>
> AFAIK you can't just share memory between processes in a
> platform-independant way (there's IPC, but you said you'd like to have
> it work on windows too).
>
> >From your description, perhaps a DBM file accessed by the two
> processes would work well?  The "writer" can write records to the db
> as they're read, and the "reader" can just open the db read-only.
> I don't know if windows would give you "sharing violations" (bah).
>
>
> --
> Greg Fast
> http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/
>
>


From fire at dls.net  Fri Jan 23 06:18:46 2004
From: fire at dls.net (fire@dls.net)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFD@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
References: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFD@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <20040123121846.4B491967F41@demolition.dls.net>

> I just installed the binary package of gcc 2 mins ago.
> 
> Mike
Allow me to play devil's advocate. Where did you get this gcc for AIX?
Bull freeware is generally best for AIX. I don't believe they have
gcc 3.3 for aix 4.3.3. You may have a bum distribution. I will try
this at work. 

Bradley Slavik

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Fri Jan 23 08:13:02 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51C02@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

I got it from a GNU mirror for AIX.
I also got perl 5.8.2 from the same site. I ended up getting perl 5.8.2 from
this site also and it works.

alas I still cant comile perl tho. or any other package. I think I might be
missing some libs, im not to familure with AIX so I will have to track down
how to check and ensure I have all the proper libs.

aixpdslib.seas.ucla.edu
all the GNU bin and src are in /pub

Bulls freeware does have a good deal of stuff for aix but it carries some of
the most outdated packages. IE: perl for aix 4.3 only goes up to 5.0.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of fire@dls.net
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 6:19 AM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3


> I just installed the binary package of gcc 2 mins ago.
> 
> Mike
Allow me to play devil's advocate. Where did you get this gcc for AIX?
Bull freeware is generally best for AIX. I don't believe they have
gcc 3.3 for aix 4.3.3. You may have a bum distribution. I will try
this at work. 

Bradley Slavik
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From gdf at speakeasy.net  Fri Jan 23 10:07:37 2004
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <009901c3e16c$855566b0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <009901c3e16c$855566b0$6405a8c0@a30>
	<002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
	<20040122160322.58B772DAC43@mail2.zoneedit.com>
Message-ID: <200401231607.i0NG7ch25988@mail.pm.org>

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:51:08 -0600, "Jay Strauss" <me@heyjay.com> wrote:
> Hey that IPC::ShareLite is pretty neat.  Works for me, screw the people on
> windows, they can write to a file

Keen :)

Your code snippet looked pretty workable to me, though you might run
into problems is the write process and the read process are trying to
access the file simultaneously.

Oh, one more possibility (at the risk of jumping the gun on next
month's meeting topic): you could use POE, letting its cooperative
task-swapping handle what you're doing with multiple processes.
Depends on how responsive you require the read task to be, probably.

    use POE;
    use POE::Session;
    
    my $Data = {};
    
    my $task_one = POE::Session->create(
    	inline_states => { _start => sub { $_[KERNEL]->yield('task_one') },
                           task_one => \&task_one,
                           _stop => sub { "cleanup, as required" },
                         } );
    
    my $task_two = POE::Session->create(
    	inline_states => { _start => sub { $_[KERNEL]->yield('task_two') },
                           task_two => \&task_two,
                           _stop => sub { "ditto" },
                         } );
    
    $poe_kernel->run();
    
    sub task_one {
      my $kernel = $_[KERNEL];
      print scalar(localtime), ": Updating shared data...\n";
      $Data->{X}++;
      $kernel->delay_set( 'task_one', 60 ); # run again in 60 seconds
    }
    
    sub task_two {
      my $kernel = $_[KERNEL];
      print scalar(localtime), ": $Data->{X}\n";
      $kernel->delay_set( 'task_two', 35 );
    }


--
Greg Fast
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/

From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 23 10:23:53 2004
From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Mechanize eBay
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEECDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
	<17600000.1074787204@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <Law10-OE65OJqXU0moa0003971c@hotmail.com>

I haven't.  I have, however, been reading about the Ebay API / SDK recently,
and it seems pretty cool.  You can do all kinds of Ebay-like things through
the M$ family of languages via a SDK, or through pure XML call and response
through anyone that can speak XML.

Once you have an application working in the Ebay sandbox, it needs to be
validated, which costs $.  It's $100 if you want to use the app for yourself
or your company, and gives you 5000 calls per month.  Larger options are
available.

http://developer.ebay.com/DevProgram/

All in all, I'm really impressed with the tools they offer, now I just need
to find something to sell.  Also, O'Reilly has an Ebay Hacks book, which I
believe covers the Developer program, and other uh, "Ebay Hacks".

I love this API trend, Amazon, Google, Ebay, Paypal (sort of).  So many
great tools.  It's entirely possible to run a profitable business with next
to no up front costs.

As an example, I run a smallish game server at http://games.lonelylion.com.
One game, a Tradewars clone (remember BBS's?) is pretty popular.  I set up a
donations button through paypal.  For every dollar a player donates, they
get X in game credits to buy new ships, ray guns, and the like.  The user
donates through paypal, then paypal makes a call to a script I've got on my
site, that says, "user so and so just donated $X", then the script gives
them their reward.  It took all of an hour or so to set up.  In the couple
of months its been running, I've made enough to upgrade the server, which
made everyone happy.

Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lembark" <lembark@wrkhors.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Mechanize eBay


>
> > Has anyone ever successfully logged in to eBay using WWW::Mechanize?
>
> Quite probably.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Jan 23 10:40:56 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <200401231607.i0NG7ch25988@mail.pm.org>
References: <009901c3e16c$855566b0$6405a8c0@a30>
	<002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
	<20040122160322.58B772DAC43@mail2.zoneedit.com>
	<200401231607.i0NG7ch25988@mail.pm.org>
Message-ID: <86brouzkh7.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Fast <gdf@speakeasy.net> writes:

Greg> Oh, one more possibility (at the risk of jumping the gun on next
Greg> month's meeting topic): you could use POE, letting its cooperative
Greg> task-swapping handle what you're doing with multiple processes.
Greg> Depends on how responsive you require the read task to be, probably.

Or, do what I did for my multi-threaded link checker, use Class::DBI
around a DBD::SQLite database to communicate between processes:
<http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col52.html>

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 23 10:54:19 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
Message-ID: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>

I finally dreamed up how I'd like to implement this,
but before I do any work on it, I figured I'd do a
quick check and see if such a tool already exists
before I go cluttering up CPAN with one.

In short, is there an existing module that will
dynamically populate @INC based upon certain keywords?

This comes up when modules are installed in a local
location (~/modules, for example) in one location on a
development environment, but in a completely different
location on a production environment.

Say, for example, I have my own development modules at
"/Users/jim/Documents/Perl", but when I deploy live
they end up at "/home/thomason/perl/". Most annoying.

Now, this is fixed by tacking on double use libs.

use lib "/Users/jim/Documents/Perl/";
use lib "/home/thomason/";

But that's annoying. It gets worse when you factor in
that I have a few scripts I like to deploy on several
servers, requiring multiple lib calls.

use lib "/Users/jim/Documents/Perl";
use lib "/home/thomason/";
use lib "/home/lm/";
use lib "/home/tmr/";

etc. Major nuisance. And, obviously, if I want to
deploy on another machine, I need to go tack on
another use lib. I know I could just use some tricks
with symbolic links or ~ or whatever, but that ties me
down to specific directory structures, and I don't
care for that.

So I'm leaning towards something config file driven.

So you can replace that all with:

use Lib::Finder qw(mymodules);

And then this theoretical Lib::Finder module can look
at a conf file that would define something like:

mymodules = ("/Users/jim/Documents/Perl",
"/home/thomason", "/home/lm/", "/home/tmr/");

And voila. You're all set. Deploy your scripts with
impunity, and as long as Lib::Finder is installed in a
place perl can fine, it'll automagically find your
other module paths for you.

Naturally, a fully functional module would require a
few more bells and whistles beyond simply this.

But before I run off and make those bells and
whistles, I figured I'd check in with my few
questions.

1) Does this already exist?
2) Does it sound useful?
3) How's "Lib::Finder" sound as a name?

-Jim........

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From merlyn at stonehenge.com  Fri Jan 23 11:09:38 2004
From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86vfn2y4kz.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Thomason <jthomasoniii@yahoo.com> writes:

Jim> In short, is there an existing module that will
Jim> dynamically populate @INC based upon certain keywords?

You probably don't need a dynamic @INC as long as you have a coderef
entry in your @INC.  See "perldoc -f require", and pay attention to
the part towards the end where it talks about coderefs.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

From ehs at pobox.com  Fri Jan 23 11:38:27 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040123173827.GB18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 08:54:19AM -0800, Jim Thomason wrote:
> In short, is there an existing module that will
> dynamically populate @INC based upon certain keywords?

> 1) Does this already exist?

Steven's FindBin::libs [1] (which I installed this morning) is a similar
tool for handling situations like this. I think you would need to synch up the 
names of your library locations though:

    /Users/jim/Documents/Perl/lib
    /home/thomason/perl/lib

Which could be used by putting this in your script:

    use FindBin::libs;

> 2) Does it sound useful?

I like the config idea, but then you have the problem of which config file
to use in different environments no? 

> 3) How's "Lib::Finder" sound as a name?

I like it. 

//Ed

-- 
Ed Summers
aim: inkdroid
web: http://www.inkdroid.org


From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 23 11:57:10 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <86vfn2y4kz.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <20040123175710.55539.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>

> You probably don't need a dynamic @INC as long as
> you have a coderef
> entry in your @INC.  See "perldoc -f require", and
> pay attention to
> the part towards the end where it talks about
> coderefs.

Admittedly, I've only now glanced at that for about 5
minutes, but my first impression is that that feature
is more masturbatory than useful.

I don't think it does quite what I'd like for two
reasons. Firstly, it appears to be a 5.8.0 feature
(doesn't show up in my 5.6 pod, you see), so for my
uses it's right out. Secondly, it does help find
files, but how does it know which directories to
search or what search technique to use?

So it looks like you either (a) specify the search
function in all affected scripts (which effectively
doesn't gain you anything, since you'd still need to
make your changes everywhere, unless you have some
sort of uber function) or (b) specify the search
function in some central module, in which case all the
coderef does is add a step (use @INC \&code; use
CentralSearch; vs. use Lib::Finder qw(keyword);).

Perhaps it's just my newness with this feature, but it
doesn't look like it handles quite what I'm proposing.


-Jim......

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 23 12:03:17 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123173827.GB18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <20040123180317.88009.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>

> > 1) Does this already exist?
> 
> Steven's FindBin::libs [1] (which I installed this
> morning) is a similar
> tool for handling situations like this. I think you
> would need to synch up the 
> names of your library locations though:

AFAIK, it does require a specific directory structure,
but I'm sure Steven will correct me if I'm wrong. It
does look like the closest thing to what I'm
suggesting, but I still don't like being locked into a
particular structure.

> I like the config idea, but then you have the
> problem of which config file
> to use in different environments no? 

Yes, that is a bit of the rub. I'm leaning towards a
central config file that can be alterred to point to
additional config files on a per user basis. Requires
the SysAdmin to edit that central file to add in a new
developer, but then the developer can twiddle their
own config file after that. Ideally, I'd like to get
that other person out of the loop.

I'm considering having a default config file just be
"~/libfinder.cfg" or the like, but that brings back in
the home directory to the mix, and I'm not sure I like
that. Just one of my quirks - I like config file paths
to be absolute.

-Jim.......

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Fri Jan 23 12:15:07 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786E6F@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

Just a thought

Is it not possible to just use the PERLLIB environment variable on the
different machines?

Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Thomason [mailto:jthomasoniii@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:03 PM
> To: Chicago.pm chatter
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
> 
> 
> > > 1) Does this already exist?
> > 
> > Steven's FindBin::libs [1] (which I installed this
> > morning) is a similar
> > tool for handling situations like this. I think you
> > would need to synch up the 
> > names of your library locations though:
> 
> AFAIK, it does require a specific directory structure,
> but I'm sure Steven will correct me if I'm wrong. It
> does look like the closest thing to what I'm
> suggesting, but I still don't like being locked into a
> particular structure.
> 
> > I like the config idea, but then you have the
> > problem of which config file
> > to use in different environments no? 
> 
> Yes, that is a bit of the rub. I'm leaning towards a
> central config file that can be alterred to point to
> additional config files on a per user basis. Requires
> the SysAdmin to edit that central file to add in a new
> developer, but then the developer can twiddle their
> own config file after that. Ideally, I'd like to get
> that other person out of the loop.
> 
> I'm considering having a default config file just be
> "~/libfinder.cfg" or the like, but that brings back in
> the home directory to the mix, and I'm not sure I like
> that. Just one of my quirks - I like config file paths
> to be absolute.
> 
> -Jim.......
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
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From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 13:12:56 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFE@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
References: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51BFE@qgats001.conway.prod.con
	-way.com>
Message-ID: <43960000.1074885176@[192.168.100.3]>



-- "Dooley, Michael" <Dooley.Michael@con-way.com>

> QGAOM001:/dbexport/install/perl-5.8.3# which cc
> /usr/local/bin/cc
> QGAOM001:/dbexport/install/perl-5.8.3# ls -l /usr/local/bin/cc
> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     system        18 Jun 24 2002  /usr/local/bin/cc ->
> /usr/local/bin/gcc
> QGAOM001:/dbexport/install/perl-5.8.3#
>
> its not sun. its aix.

Even worse :-)

>
> but I do have /usr/ccs in my path also.

What bit you.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 13:14:29 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] compiling perl 5.8.3 on aix 4.3.3
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51C00@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
References: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51C00@qgats001.conway.prod.con
	-way.com>
Message-ID: <44090000.1074885269@[192.168.100.3]>



-- "Dooley, Michael" <Dooley.Michael@con-way.com>

> well when the question askes for which compiler you are using I have
> tried: cc (default)
> /usr/local/bin/cc
> /usr/local/bin/gcc
>
> and I get the same error (because they are all the same)
>
> I have both /usr/ccs and /usr/ccs/bin.
>
> im really at a loss.


export PATH=/usr/local/bin/:/usr/bin:/bin/;

try it now.

That or export CC=gcc or twiddle the command line for the
perl config util to use "gcc" -- which ain't in /usr/ccs/bin.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 13:16:39 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <008301c3e166$c8d40dc0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
	<200401221603.i0MG3Ci13596@mail.pm.org>	<41400000.1074790135@[192.168.100.3]>
	<008301c3e166$c8d40dc0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <44290000.1074885399@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Jay Strauss <me@heyjay.com>

> Steve & Greg,
>
> I want to avoid an RDBMS.  Maybe using a DBM but what's wrong with the
> code below?  Seems nice and simple, but maybe I'm missing something.
> Although I'd like to avoid a file all together.
>
> The writer process writes maybe 200,000 times a day (guessing), but the
> writes are sporadic, a couple a second then none for 5 seconds.  The
> reader is an on demand service, maybe a thousandish a day

Which is why you're better off using a service than a flat
file. The former avoids logic races, etc. I'd suggest some
sort of message passing, with the server acting as directory
or publishing the updates as necessary to subscribers.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 13:18:26 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <200401231607.i0NG7ch25988@mail.pm.org>
References: <009901c3e16c$855566b0$6405a8c0@a30>
	<002a01c3e0a0$5c2c9280$6405a8c0@a30>
	<20040122160322.58B772DAC43@mail2.zoneedit.com>
	<200401231607.i0NG7ch25988@mail.pm.org>
Message-ID: <44670000.1074885506@[192.168.100.3]>

> looked pretty workable to me, though you might run
> into problems is the write process and the read process are trying to
> access the file simultaneously.

Except for logic races, which could leave the caller loading a
partially written freeze. Unless you use ioctl or semaphores to
lock the file, at which point you might as well use a service.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 13:22:20 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47980000.1074885740@[192.168.100.3]>


> 1) Does this already exist?
> 2) Does it sound useful?
> 3) How's "Lib::Finder" sound as a name?

1) FindBin::libs does this already. One minor (undocumented)
   hack allows adding another base path instead of $FindBin::Bin.
2) It's quite useful -- nice to find someone who agrees with me :-)
3) Check CPAN for existing library managers...

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From don at drakeconsult.com  Fri Jan 23 14:06:58 2004
From: don at drakeconsult.com (Don Drake)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <008301c3e166$c8d40dc0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <000201c3e1ec$76ae1f00$c201ac0a@attbi.com>


I would modify the child to write to a temp file, then rename it to the real
file.  The 'mv' command in Unix is an atomic call, so you'll never have a
file in an inconsistent state (partially written).  The rename function is
portable, but has known issues when renaming across file systems, etc. on
certain platforms.

-Don



 sub child {

         foreach (0..60) {
                 sleep 1;
                 $data{IBM}{last} = $_;
                 store(\%data,'/tmp/jstrauss.tmp');
		     rename ('/tmp/jstrauss.tmp','tmp/jstrauss');
		     # or if you're running unix:
		     # system("/bin/mv -f /tmp/jstrauss.tmp /tmp/jstrauss");
         }
 }



From ehs at pobox.com  Fri Jan 23 14:21:08 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <47980000.1074885740@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
	<47980000.1074885740@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <20040123202108.GC18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 01:22:20PM -0600, Steven Lembark wrote:
> 2) It's quite useful -- nice to find someone who agrees with me :-)

It is very useful. I don't know why it took me this long to use it...I think I
was being lazy at being lazy :)
 
One thing I've noticed is that the 'print' option which displays the
included library location appears to be on by default:

    [esummers@blitz esummers]$ perl -de 1;
     
    Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.22
    Editor support available.
     
    Enter h or `h h' for help, or `man perldebug' for more help.
     
    main::(-e:1):   1
      DB<1> use FindBin::libs;
    Found */lib:
            /lib
     
      DB<2>

Which is alright, because I can turn it off with 'noprint' but it 
would be nice if 'noprint' was the default. 

A nice addition to the Perl toolbox.

//Ed

From don at drakeconsult.com  Fri Jan 23 15:07:21 2004
From: don at drakeconsult.com (Don Drake)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c3e1f4$e5105af0$c201ac0a@attbi.com>


My current project has a lot homemade perl modules and scripts that use
these modules.

I ran into the same problem with a development server, multiple developers
and a production server -- all with different paths to the location of our
scripts and modules.

First, everything is stored under a single "root" directory, e.g.
"/home/drake/falconperl" for dev, and "/data0/falcon" for prod.
Furthermore, all perl libraries are located in /lib under the "root"
(/data0/falcon/lib).

The way I have it setup is with a single environment variable (FALCON_HOME)
which is set in the users profile.

No module is required, only requirement is that the environment variable is
set.

I then use the following at the top of every script:
 use lib "$ENV{FALCON_HOME}/lib";
 ...
 use PCS::Nortel;

If the environment variable isn't set (or set incorrectly), nothing works.

It's not as dynamic as FindBin::libs, but that's OK.  Having a script "hunt
down" libraries can be viewed as helpful or hurtful depending on the library
it found, e.g. my home directory contains many old versions of installed
perl modules I don't want it looking there!.

Being explicit with a environment variable ensures a more predictable
outcome.

-Don

>
> This comes up when modules are installed in a local
> location (~/modules, for example) in one location on a
> development environment, but in a completely different
> location on a production environment.
>
> Say, for example, I have my own development modules at
> "/Users/jim/Documents/Perl", but when I deploy live
> they end up at "/home/thomason/perl/". Most annoying.
>
> Now, this is fixed by tacking on double use libs.
>
> use lib "/Users/jim/Documents/Perl/";
> use lib "/home/thomason/";
>
> But that's annoying. It gets worse when you factor in
> that I have a few scripts I like to deploy on several
> servers, requiring multiple lib calls.
>
> use lib "/Users/jim/Documents/Perl";
> use lib "/home/thomason/";
> use lib "/home/lm/";
> use lib "/home/tmr/";
>
> etc. Major nuisance. And, obviously, if I want to
> deploy on another machine, I need to go tack on
> another use lib. I know I could just use some tricks
> with symbolic links or ~ or whatever, but that ties me
> down to specific directory structures, and I don't
> care for that.
>


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 15:27:11 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123173827.GB18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040123173827.GB18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <48740000.1074893231@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Ed Summers <ehs@pobox.com>

> On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 08:54:19AM -0800, Jim Thomason wrote:
>> In short, is there an existing module that will
>> dynamically populate @INC based upon certain keywords?
>
>> 1) Does this already exist?
>
> Steven's FindBin::libs [1] (which I installed this morning) is a similar
> tool for handling situations like this. I think you would need to synch
> up the  names of your library locations though:
>
>     /Users/jim/Documents/Perl/lib
>     /home/thomason/perl/lib

Actually, you can pick the directory names to change them from "lib".

               use FindBin::libs qw( base=altlib );

e.g., qw( base=homegrown ) will look for ./homegrown. The POD has a
few examples of this.

The basic idea behind FB::libs is that what  you are looking for will
be somewhere along $Bin. The example with ~/libs doesn't sound very
portable, but if your sandbox is somewhere below $HOME then tracing
up $Bin will eventually collide with it.




--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From ehs at pobox.com  Fri Jan 23 15:38:46 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <000b01c3e1f4$e5105af0$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
	<000b01c3e1f4$e5105af0$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20040123213846.GD18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 03:07:21PM -0600, Don Drake wrote:
> Being explicit with a environment variable ensures a more predictable
> outcome.

Environment! How yucky, that's just the sort of code I'm replacing :)

//Ed

From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Fri Jan 23 16:55:32 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:02 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51C0D@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

Apache::AuthenNTLM 2.05 was released. it is working now. :)

the only thing is $ENV{REMOTE_USER} is <domain>\<username> vs. <username>

not that I mind but I think it could cause some issues down the road since
REMOTE_USER is just supposed to be the username.

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Dooley, Michael
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:23 PM
To: 'Chicago.pm chatter'
Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically


Ok Guys,

Apache::AuthenNTLM I couldn't get to work. I keept getting errors, and well
I couldn't find any support for it either. Altho I got an email back from
the authors it didn't help. so I abandonded that module.

I did find the following apache module tho @ http://modntlm.sourceforge.net/
and it worked great with minimal configuration and well and extreamly easy
install.

It was tested/written on Linux. I built it on a sparc running solaris8 w/ no
problems. I couldn't have asked for an easier setup.

The modules authenticates any useres accessing your webpage and the username
is captured in $ENV{REMOTE_USER}.

Just thought I would pass this along.

Case Closed,
mike

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Dooley, Michael
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:28 PM
To: 'Chicago.pm chatter'
Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] getting username via webpage automatically


found it.
http://search.cpan.org/~speeves/Apache-AuthenNTLM-2.04/AuthenNTLM.pm

it is used in conjunction with mod_perl
_______________________________________________
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http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
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From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 17:23:28 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123180317.88009.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040123180317.88009.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48930000.1074900208@[192.168.100.3]>


> AFAIK, it does require a specific directory structure,
> but I'm sure Steven will correct me if I'm wrong. It
> does look like the closest thing to what I'm
> suggesting, but I still don't like being locked into a
> particular structure.

The only requirement is that tracing $Bin -- or the path you
pick -- will lead to the library dir's. Eventually you will
have to put SOME structure onto your sandbox, unless all of
the code you are running will be personal and specific to
your home directory. If your development environment is that
haphazard

If you want to find ~/mylibs then:

 1. do your development below ~
 2. use FindBin::libs qw( base=mylibs );

finito. Your ~/mylibs directory will be in @INC.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 17:24:52 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123202108.GC18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
	<47980000.1074885740@[192.168.100.3]>
	<20040123202108.GC18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <49120000.1074900292@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Ed Summers <ehs@pobox.com>

> On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 01:22:20PM -0600, Steven Lembark wrote:
>> 2) It's quite useful -- nice to find someone who agrees with me :-)
>
> It is very useful. I don't know why it took me this long to use it...I
> think I was being lazy at being lazy :)
>
> One thing I've noticed is that the 'print' option which displays the
> included library location appears to be on by default:

I'll double check the code this weekend but I think it turns
on verbose mode if $^P is set... call it a feature until then :-)


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 17:25:52 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <000201c3e1ec$76ae1f00$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
References: <000201c3e1ec$76ae1f00$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <49320000.1074900352@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Don Drake <don@drakeconsult.com>

>
> I would modify the child to write to a temp file, then rename it to the
> real file.  The 'mv' command in Unix is an atomic call, so you'll never
> have a file in an inconsistent state (partially written).  The rename
> function is portable, but has known issues when renaming across file
> systems, etc. on certain platforms.
>
> -Don
>
>
>
>  sub child {
>
>          foreach (0..60) {
>                  sleep 1;
>                  $data{IBM}{last} = $_;
>                  store(\%data,'/tmp/jstrauss.tmp');
> 		     rename ('/tmp/jstrauss.tmp','tmp/jstrauss');
> 		     # or if you're running unix:
> 		     # system("/bin/mv -f /tmp/jstrauss.tmp /tmp/jstrauss");
>          }
>  }

Even easier: use File::Temp.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 17:29:13 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <000b01c3e1f4$e5105af0$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
References: <000b01c3e1f4$e5105af0$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <49470000.1074900553@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Don Drake <don@drakeconsult.com>

>
> My current project has a lot homemade perl modules and scripts that use
> these modules.
>
> I ran into the same problem with a development server, multiple developers
> and a production server -- all with different paths to the location of our
> scripts and modules.
>
> First, everything is stored under a single "root" directory, e.g.
> "/home/drake/falconperl" for dev, and "/data0/falcon" for prod.
> Furthermore, all perl libraries are located in /lib under the "root"
> (/data0/falcon/lib).
>
> The way I have it setup is with a single environment variable
> (FALCON_HOME) which is set in the users profile.
>
> No module is required, only requirement is that the environment variable
> is set.
>
> I then use the following at the top of every script:
>  use lib "$ENV{FALCON_HOME}/lib";
>  ...
>  use PCS::Nortel;
>
> If the environment variable isn't set (or set incorrectly), nothing works.
>
> It's not as dynamic as FindBin::libs, but that's OK.  Having a script
> "hunt down" libraries can be viewed as helpful or hurtful depending on
> the library it found, e.g. my home directory contains many old versions
> of installed perl modules I don't want it looking there!.
>
> Being explicit with a environment variable ensures a more predictable
> outcome.

At that point Aaron has the simplest fix: use PERL5LIB. The
ultimate way to be lazy: perl's already done it for you :-)

If you want to store things under a root directory then
simply symlink it into your sandbox:

    ./sandbox
       lib -> /root/lib/path
       ./project
          your stuff here.

Anything in ./sandbox/lib will be avaiable to ./sandbox/project/whatever.
Nice thing about this is that you can work on one of the lib's by putting
it into ./sandbox/lib-developdir and use that to override the defaults.
Makes maint. development and regression testing a whole lot easier.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From me at heyjay.com  Fri Jan 23 21:05:42 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
References: <000201c3e1ec$76ae1f00$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
	<49320000.1074900352@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <008601c3e227$0f535fb0$6405a8c0@a30>

this seems to work fine, and its much more speedy than the real life
process.  And, it prevents a race condition

Jay

#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use Storable qw( freeze thaw );
use IPC::ShareLite;

my $share = new IPC::ShareLite( -key     => 1971,
                             -create  => 'yes',
                             -destroy => 'no' ) or die $!;



if (my $pid = fork) {
        parent();
}
else {
        child();
}

sub parent {
        my $data;

        while (1) {
                sleep 1;
                $data = thaw( $share->fetch );
                print $data->{IBM}{last},"\n";
        }

}

sub child {
        my $data = {};

        foreach (0..10000000) {
                $data->{IBM}{last} = $_;
                $share->store( freeze($data) );
        }
}


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 22:47:40 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <86vfn2y4kz.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
	<86vfn2y4kz.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <3501250000.1074919660@[192.168.200.4]>


> You probably don't need a dynamic @INC as long as you have a coderef

Serves me right for not re-reading the doc's more often.

Sounds like a coderef is basically an inlined dynamic
@INC -- if I read it right.

Actually, it'd be rather easy hack FB::libs so that it
replaces itself with an array of stuff that it found:
it'll already populate an array if you ask it to, adding
a "splice" should do the trick.

hmmmm...






--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Fri Jan 23 23:18:02 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dynamic @INC builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040123202108.GC18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040123165419.35866.qmail@web60210.mail.yahoo.com>
	<47980000.1074885740@[192.168.100.3]>
	<20040123202108.GC18339@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <3508840000.1074921482@[192.168.200.4]>


>     [esummers@blitz esummers]$ perl -de 1;
>
>     Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.22
>     Editor support available.
>
>     Enter h or `h h' for help, or `man perldebug' for more help.
>
>     main::(-e:1):   1
>       DB<1> use FindBin::libs;
>     Found */lib:
>             /lib

What you pasted looks odd only because there are two
points at which $verbose is checked:

	print STDERR "\nSearching $Bin for $base...\n"
			if $verbose;


	if( $verbose || defined $argz{print} )
	{
		local $\ = "\n";
		local $, = "\n\t";

		print STDERR "Found */$base:", @libs
	}>

and you only seem to get one of them. Unless you
didn't paste the whole message.

Q: What does:

	make distclean;
	perl Makfile.PL;
	make test;

display?

thanx

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sat Jan 24 10:45:07 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <86ad4kvj03.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEFADGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

Is this in "The Elements of Perl Style?" :)

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Randal L. Schwartz
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 7:13 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Arguments


>>>>> "petemar1" == petemar1  <petemar1@perlmonk.org> writes:

petemar1> Why not? What should I use?

Nothing.

sub foo {
  my $first_arg = shift; # comment about first arg
  my $second_arg = shift; # comment about second arg
  my @remaining = @_; # comment about remaining

  ....

}

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl
training!
_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jan 24 12:55:20 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Arguments
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEFADGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
References: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIKEFADGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <3776950000.1074970520@[192.168.200.4]>


>>>>>>> "petemar1" == petemar1  <petemar1@perlmonk.org> writes:
>>
>> petemar1> Why not? What should I use?
>>
>> Nothing.
>>
>> sub foo {
>>   my $first_arg = shift; # comment about first arg
>>   my $second_arg = shift; # comment about second arg
>>   my @remaining = @_; # comment about remaining
>>
>>   ....
>>
>> }
>
>Is this in "The Elements of Perl Style?" :)

Since Perl is Whatever Larry Says It Is (tm), yes.




--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jan 24 13:10:44 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Using Storable to exchange data between 2 processes
In-Reply-To: <008601c3e227$0f535fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <000201c3e1ec$76ae1f00$c201ac0a@attbi.com>
	<49320000.1074900352@[192.168.100.3]>
	<008601c3e227$0f535fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <3828820000.1074971444@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Jay Strauss <me@heyjay.com>

> this seems to work fine, and its much more speedy than the real life
> process.  And, it prevents a race condition
>
> Jay
>
># !/usr/bin/perl
> use strict;
> use Storable qw( freeze thaw );
> use IPC::ShareLite;
>
> my $share = new IPC::ShareLite( -key     => 1971,
>                              -create  => 'yes',
>                              -destroy => 'no' ) or die $!;
>
>
>
> if (my $pid = fork) {
>         parent();
> }
> else {
>         child();
> }
>
> sub parent {
>         my $data;
>
>         while (1) {
>                 sleep 1;
>                 $data = thaw( $share->fetch );
>                 print $data->{IBM}{last},"\n";
>         }
>
> }
>
> sub child {
>         my $data = {};
>
>         foreach (0..10000000) {
>                 $data->{IBM}{last} = $_;
>                 $share->store( freeze($data) );
>         }
> }

You might want to check for undef back from the
fork, or you'll run the child by itself when you
can't:

	if( (my $pid = fork) > 0 )
	{
	}
	elseif( defined $pid )
	{
	}
	else
	{
		die "Phorkatosis: $!";
	}

If you're really worried about speed, for(;;) with
an internal break should be faster than while(1),
which has to examine its loop variable at each
iteration (unless that's also changed in 5.8). The
for(;;) construct is the most common way of doing this
in C -- it's also easy to search for via /;;/, looking
for /1/ or /(1)/ in your editor are likely to turn up
extraneous statements.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jan 24 14:41:00 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] FindBin::libs-0.15 on CPAN
Message-ID: <3853980000.1074976860@[192.168.200.4]>


Addeed setup doc's to POD. Gives example sandbox.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From brian at comdotorg.com  Sat Jan 24 16:43:16 2004
From: brian at comdotorg.com (Brian Moyles)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello!
Message-ID: <20040124224316.GA42031@comdotorg.com>

Hi All,
Found you guys while browsing Orkut.  I've been a sysadmin for about 7
years in some capacity and doing Perl for about the same.  Been looking
for a good group to chat with about Perl and bounce ideas off of.  Just
wanted to say hi!  

Brian Moyles
brian@comdotorg.com

From andy at petdance.com  Sat Jan 24 16:54:30 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <20040124224316.GA42031@comdotorg.com>
References: <20040124224316.GA42031@comdotorg.com>
Message-ID: <20040124225430.GA12364@petdance.com>

> Found you guys while browsing Orkut.  I've been a sysadmin for about 7
> years in some capacity and doing Perl for about the same.  Been looking
> for a good group to chat with about Perl and bounce ideas off of.  Just
> wanted to say hi!  

Glad to have you aboard.  Be sure to check out the meetings page on the
website.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From ehs at pobox.com  Sat Jan 24 19:09:55 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <20040124224316.GA42031@comdotorg.com>
References: <20040124224316.GA42031@comdotorg.com>
Message-ID: <20040125010955.GA15456@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 04:43:16PM -0600, Brian Moyles wrote:
> Found you guys while browsing Orkut.  

Speaking of Orkut, who else is on there?

//Ed

From skarol1 at uic.edu  Sun Jan 25 00:35:26 2004
From: skarol1 at uic.edu (Sachin Karol)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
Message-ID: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>

>From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
syntax etc.

Sachin




From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 25 00:40:42 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <20040125064042.GA13079@petdance.com>

> >From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
> have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
> syntax etc.

Either vim or emacs will take care of you in those respects.  Which you
prefer is a matter of choice.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From brian at comdotorg.com  Sun Jan 25 01:19:51 2004
From: brian at comdotorg.com (Brian Moyles)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <20040125071951.GB45170@comdotorg.com>

On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 12:35:26AM -0600, Sachin Karol(skarol1@uic.edu) wrote: 
> >From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
> have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
> syntax etc.

I was a pico user for the longest time, until one day I broke down and
worked with vi.  It seems unintuitive at first, but once you start using
it regularly, it begins to feel natural.  I don't know how, but it does :)
Vim is my fav. for editing Perl, Python, or anything.  If you're looking
for something a bit more GUI, check out Komodo from ActiveState.  Neat
product, and their regular expression module can be very handy for seeing
how your regexps play out.

-- 
brian

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sun Jan 25 08:07:03 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIMEFFDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_wars
I've used pico, nano, vi and emacs. Unless you have a recent version and the
right .*rc file, you will be "colorless." :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano_text_editor
http://www.nano-editor.org/
Nano is a good place to start: it's the gnu pico and it does color. You can
use your pico skills and get up and running right away.


-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Sachin Karol
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 12:35 AM
To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?


>From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
syntax etc.

Sachin



_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


From jt at plainblack.com  Sun Jan 25 10:22:56 2004
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20040125064042.GA13079@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <web-768834@plainblack.com>

I teach perl to novices on occasion and I find it easier to teach using Komodo 
(http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/) so that I don't have to spend my time 
teaching an editor and perl at the same time. Komodo is a commercial product, but its 
graphical environment is much easier to understand for newbies.

When you get to be hardcore, then switch to vim. There is no better editor for perl.


On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:40:42 -0600
  Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com> wrote:
>> >From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
>> have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
>> syntax etc.
>
>Either vim or emacs will take care of you in those respects.  Which you
>prefer is a matter of choice.
>
>xoa
>
>-- 
>Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>_______________________________________________
>Chicago-talk mailing list
>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

JT ~ Plain Black

Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. 

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 10:32:43 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <340500000.1075048363@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Sachin Karol <skarol1@uic.edu>

>> From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
> have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
> syntax etc.

You must really enjoy flame wars!

I'd pick vile (ftp://invisible-island.net/vile). It
uses the simpler command structure of vi with the
multiple-buffering, hiliting, etc, of emacs. It also
uses Perl as its macro language (instead of scheme
on emacs) -- it has rather good syntax hiliting for
Perl partly for that reason.

enjoi


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 10:33:29 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <web-768834@plainblack.com>
References: <web-768834@plainblack.com>
Message-ID: <341870000.1075048409@[192.168.200.4]>


> When you get to be hardcore, then switch to vim. There is no better
> editor for perl.

Have you ever tried vile?


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 25 12:43:32 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <340500000.1075048363@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
	<340500000.1075048363@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040125184332.GA21128@petdance.com>

> I'd pick vile (ftp://invisible-island.net/vile). It
> uses the simpler command structure of vi with the
> multiple-buffering, hiliting, etc, of emacs.

So does vim.

I'd go so far to say as that vim is the standard vi these days.


-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 25 12:51:06 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question of style
Message-ID: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>

Hi,

I use Class::Accessor.  When you create a new obj you call it with a
hashref:

my $obj = Class->new({ foo => 42 });

I prefer doing:

my $obj = Class->new(foo => 42);

It's easy to override Class::Accessor to make it do what I want, by adding:

sub new {
    my $class = shift;
    $class->SUPER::new({@_});
}

to my class.

Now the question:  Is it just a personal preference to use a hash or a
hashref when creating a class.  Or is one one syntax preferred by those
people who make the rules?

Thanks
Jay


From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 25 12:56:29 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <001c01c3e374$95f26c70$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <20040125184332.GA21128@petdance.com>
	<001c01c3e374$95f26c70$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <20040125185629.GC21128@petdance.com>

> Hey Andy, how did you do that thing where you shelled out of VIM and ran a
> unix command against your file?

   :%!command

% means "all lines in a file"

If you have lines hilighted, the : will turn into

   :'<,'>

and you just type the !whatever.

In general, "!" means "shell out" in Unix.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From shild at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 25 13:27:52 2004
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <web-768834@plainblack.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20040125132752.shild@sbcglobal.net>


On 25-Jan-2004 JT Smith wrote:
 > 
> When you get to be hardcore, then switch to vim. There is no better editor for perl.

  ...no switch to nvi.  :-)

> 
> 
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:40:42 -0600
>   Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com> wrote:
>>> >From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
>>> have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
>>> syntax etc.
>>
>>Either vim or emacs will take care of you in those respects.  Which you
>>prefer is a matter of choice.
>>
>>xoa
>>
>>-- 
>>Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
>>_______________________________________________
>>Chicago-talk mailing list
>>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
>>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
> JT ~ Plain Black
> 
> Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Scott T. Hildreth <shild@sbcglobal.net>
Date: 25-Jan-2004
Time: 13:27:07
----------------------------------

From wiggins at danconia.org  Sun Jan 25 13:26:19 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] New to the List, Tech Meeting Length?
Message-ID: <4014185B.7080605@danconia.org>

Hello all,

I am new to the mailing list, not really in the area, but considering 
coming up for the tech meeting on POE on 2/3, how long is it expected to 
last, or how long have others lasted?  I assume anyone is invited to 
join or visit?  I am still attempting to make my way into Chicago...

Thanks,

http://danconia.org

From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 25 13:57:03 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question of
	style
In-Reply-To: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <20040125195703.25652.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>

> Now the question:  Is it just a personal preference
> to use a hash or a
> hashref when creating a class.  Or is one one syntax
> preferred by those
> people who make the rules?

As far as I'm concerned, it's a personal preference.

Some people prefer it, since you're passing by
reference instead of by value. Realistically? As long
as those hashes or keys or values or whatever aren't
huge, it's not going to make a difference 99 times out
of 100. Speed and memory won't be perceptibly
affected.

I've also heard it used in times where someone wants
to keep open the option of passing in additional
arguments outside of that hash value.
($class->new(\%args, $someothervar)). Again, I'd
personally rather stick 'em in that args hash.

The only other possible advantage I can conceive of is
that you're not required to de-reference a hashref if
you already have one.

I'd say that consistency is usually more important
than one or the other. Pick one and stick with it, if
possible.

-Jim....

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 25 16:50:39 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
Message-ID: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>

Hi,

How can I get back a list of methods available in an class?

thanks
Jay


From ehs at pobox.com  Sun Jan 25 16:59:00 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
In-Reply-To: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <20040125225900.GA18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 04:50:39PM -0600, Jay Strauss wrote:
> How can I get back a list of methods available in an class?

Without getting down and dirty with namespaces, you can install 
the lovely Module::Info:

    use Module::Info;
    my $module = Module::Info->new_from_module( 'CGI' );

    my %subroutines = $module->subroutines();
    
    foreach $subroutine ( keys( %subroutines ) ) { 
        print "$subroutine\n";
    }

//Ed
    

From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 25 17:13:16 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
	<20040125225900.GA18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <001001c3e398$d1c04a00$6405a8c0@a30>

Thanks Ed,
I knew there must be a way

Jay
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Summers" <ehs@pobox.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list


> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 04:50:39PM -0600, Jay Strauss wrote:
> > How can I get back a list of methods available in an class?
> 
> Without getting down and dirty with namespaces, you can install 
> the lovely Module::Info:
> 
>     use Module::Info;
>     my $module = Module::Info->new_from_module( 'CGI' );
> 
>     my %subroutines = $module->subroutines();
>     
>     foreach $subroutine ( keys( %subroutines ) ) { 
>         print "$subroutine\n";
>     }
> 
> //Ed
>     
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
> 


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 17:43:53 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20040125184332.GA21128@petdance.com>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
	<340500000.1075048363@[192.168.200.4]>
	<20040125184332.GA21128@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <513090000.1075074233@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>

>> I'd pick vile (ftp://invisible-island.net/vile). It
>> uses the simpler command structure of vi with the
>> multiple-buffering, hiliting, etc, of emacs.
>
> So does vim.
>
> I'd go so far to say as that vim is the standard vi these days.

Problem is that they broke so much of the original
vi syntax that it's hard to switch between stock
versions on other systems (e.g., uu).


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 17:49:31 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question of
	style
In-Reply-To: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <515450000.1075074571@[192.168.200.4]>


> Now the question:  Is it just a personal preference to use a hash or a
> hashref when creating a class.  Or is one one syntax preferred by those
> people who make the rules?

Hash ref's are common because people are used to C
structs for thier objects. The $obj->{name} syntax
is reasonably flexable and more descriptive than,
say, arrays with positional access in most cases.
So... people use hashes.

For lazy instantiation scalars are often simpler;
Tim Bunce chose to use an empty anon hash for its
unique conversion to text; he could just as well
have used a scalar in most cases. For queues it
is often easier to use an array, since you can just
shift @$obj; iterators are more easily done with
closures (i.e., sub referent) that process the
iteration.

Net result is that there are situations where
hashes are not all that convienent (especially
queues). It's probably a good idea to think hard
about what you are going to do with the object and
how it will be used before blindly implementing it
as a hash every time [hey: designing before you
implement, maybe I could get a patent... :-].

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 25 17:44:45 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question ofstyle
References: <20040125195703.25652.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002401c3e39d$3781f420$6405a8c0@a30>

Thanks Jim

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Thomason" <jthomasoniii@yahoo.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question
ofstyle


> > Now the question:  Is it just a personal preference
> > to use a hash or a
> > hashref when creating a class.  Or is one one syntax
> > preferred by those
> > people who make the rules?
>
> As far as I'm concerned, it's a personal preference.
>
> Some people prefer it, since you're passing by
> reference instead of by value. Realistically? As long
> as those hashes or keys or values or whatever aren't
> huge, it's not going to make a difference 99 times out
> of 100. Speed and memory won't be perceptibly
> affected.
>
> I've also heard it used in times where someone wants
> to keep open the option of passing in additional
> arguments outside of that hash value.
> ($class->new(\%args, $someothervar)). Again, I'd
> personally rather stick 'em in that args hash.
>
> The only other possible advantage I can conceive of is
> that you're not required to de-reference a hashref if
> you already have one.
>
> I'd say that consistency is usually more important
> than one or the other. Pick one and stick with it, if
> possible.
>
> -Jim....
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 17:57:30 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question of
	style
In-Reply-To: <20040125195703.25652.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040125195703.25652.qmail@web60206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <517880000.1075075050@[192.168.200.4]>


> I've also heard it used in times where someone wants
> to keep open the option of passing in additional
> arguments outside of that hash value.
> ($class->new(\%args, $someothervar)). Again, I'd
> personally rather stick 'em in that args hash.

That depends on who is doing the initialization. If
\%args is being passed back to a parent class then
the only clean way to process the additional stuff
may be with add'l arguments. They can also clean up
the interface by standardizing the data passed in
among multiple classes with directives to the
individual dervied or speical-purpose classes comming
in as after-data control switches.

> The only other possible advantage I can conceive of is
> that you're not required to de-reference a hashref if
> you already have one.

It also depends heavily on where the arguments are
being assembled. You may find that something like:

	my $foo = complicated_call @lotsaargz;

	blah->new( $foo );

simplifies the whole thing -- and allows dumping the
contents before calling the constructor with them.

You may also have cases where the arguments are
themselves an object, say one that does lazy
initilization of itself. In this case passing it
in as an array will break the interface -- or
initialize all of the data too soon when the object
is referenced.

Net result, is that if the caller depends on a referent
you're probably better off passing them in that way to
avoid possible side-effects.

The original email's examples were trivial enough
that it wouldn't matter. In cases complicated enough
to require code auto-generator modules you are better
off being rather careful about it.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From me at heyjay.com  Sun Jan 25 17:48:45 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question ofstyle
References: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
	<515450000.1075074571@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <003401c3e39d$e1e66810$6405a8c0@a30>

Sure, I don't mean to say that I always use hashes (although I do like them,
because they are sorta self documenting), obviously if something only takes
a single arg I'd use a scalar, but when some parms are optional, a hash is
good.

But my question was really: When using hashes for my parameter list is it
better to use a hash or hashref

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lembark" <lembark@wrkhors.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question
ofstyle


>
> > Now the question:  Is it just a personal preference to use a hash or a
> > hashref when creating a class.  Or is one one syntax preferred by those
> > people who make the rules?
>
> Hash ref's are common because people are used to C
> structs for thier objects. The $obj->{name} syntax
> is reasonably flexable and more descriptive than,
> say, arrays with positional access in most cases.
> So... people use hashes.
>
> For lazy instantiation scalars are often simpler;
> Tim Bunce chose to use an empty anon hash for its
> unique conversion to text; he could just as well
> have used a scalar in most cases. For queues it
> is often easier to use an array, since you can just
> shift @$obj; iterators are more easily done with
> closures (i.e., sub referent) that process the
> iteration.
>
> Net result is that there are situations where
> hashes are not all that convienent (especially
> queues). It's probably a good idea to think hard
> about what you are going to do with the object and
> how it will be used before blindly implementing it
> as a hash every time [hey: designing before you
> implement, maybe I could get a patent... :-].
>
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 17:59:39 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] New to the List, Tech Meeting Length?
In-Reply-To: <4014185B.7080605@danconia.org>
References: <4014185B.7080605@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <519180000.1075075179@[192.168.200.4]>


> I am new to the mailing list, not really in the area, but considering
> coming up for the tech meeting on POE on 2/3, how long is it expected to
> last, or how long have others lasted?  I assume anyone is invited to join
> or visit?  I am still attempting to make my way into Chicago...

It would be greatly appreciated if you'd tie your horse up
outside the meeting area to avoid a mess. Aside from that
feel free to come.

The meetings usually run 2 around hours, with post-processing
time in nearby bars running until closing time.

Where are you starting from?

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 18:06:10 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
In-Reply-To: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]>


> How can I get back a list of methods available in an class?

$ perldoc Module::Name;

I don't know if the Module::Info gives you all of the
inherited methods; I certianly know that it cannot
extrapolate AUTOLOAD results a-priori (except for auto
split, and even that can be problematic).

Q: why would you want to use undocumented methods in
   any class?

If you need to sanity check the calls before making
them then use "can":

	sub dispatch
	{
		my $obj = shift;
		my $method = shift;


		if( my $sub = $obj->can($method) )
		{
			# caller gets back the result of calling a
			# method with passed in arguments...

			$method->$sub( @_ )
		}
		else
		{
			# or an excption.

			my $ref = ref $obj || 'unblessed';

			die "Bogus object '$obj': $ref cannot $method";
		}
	}



--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 18:07:11 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question ofstyle
In-Reply-To: <003401c3e39d$e1e66810$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
	<515450000.1075074571@[192.168.200.4]>
	<003401c3e39d$e1e66810$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <524900000.1075075631@[192.168.200.4]>


> But my question was really: When using hashes for my parameter list is it
> better to use a hash or hashref

Probably a hashref unless the case is pretty trivial.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From wiggins at danconia.org  Sun Jan 25 18:13:18 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] New to the List, Tech Meeting Length?
In-Reply-To: <519180000.1075075179@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <4014185B.7080605@danconia.org>
	<519180000.1075075179@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <40145B9E.80202@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
>> I am new to the mailing list, not really in the area, but considering
>> coming up for the tech meeting on POE on 2/3, how long is it expected to
>> last, or how long have others lasted?  I assume anyone is invited to join
>> or visit?  I am still attempting to make my way into Chicago...
> 
> 
> It would be greatly appreciated if you'd tie your horse up
> outside the meeting area to avoid a mess. Aside from that
> feel free to come.
> 
> The meetings usually run 2 around hours, with post-processing
> time in nearby bars running until closing time.
> 

Cool, couldn't stay to late, or drink to much, have to make my way home...

> Where are you starting from?
> 

Indianapolis, kind of a hike for a couple hours (though doable, much 
shorter than that and I probably wouldn't consider it, wanted to make 
sure it wouldn't be 45 minutes or something), but its probably the best 
way to check out the scene up there, I have an interest in POE and 
discussions of it, and there doesn't seem to be a PM group down here 
(despite the size of the city).

http://danconia.org

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sun Jan 25 19:08:00 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] New to the List, Tech Meeting Length?
In-Reply-To: <40145B9E.80202@danconia.org>
References: <4014185B.7080605@danconia.org>
	<519180000.1075075179@[192.168.200.4]> <40145B9E.80202@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <568360000.1075079280@[192.168.200.4]>


> Indianapolis, kind of a hike for a couple hours (though doable, much
> shorter than that and I probably wouldn't consider it, wanted to make
> sure it wouldn't be 45 minutes or something), but its probably the best
> way to check out the scene up there, I have an interest in POE and
> discussions of it, and there doesn't seem to be a PM group down here
> (despite the size of the city).

Check out Purdue, maybe?


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 25 19:10:54 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::Accessor uses a hashref - a question of
	style
In-Reply-To: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <001601c3e374$32ae6fb0$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <20040126011054.GB21505@petdance.com>

> I use Class::Accessor.  When you create a new obj you call it with a
> hashref:
> 
> my $obj = Class->new({ foo => 42 });

Now you can add another parm to the constructor if you want.  If it's
all key/value pairs, then you can't.


-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From ehs at pobox.com  Sun Jan 25 19:34:16 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
In-Reply-To: <522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
	<522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040126013416.GB18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 06:06:10PM -0600, Steven Lembark wrote:
> I don't know if the Module::Info gives you all of the
> inherited methods; I certianly know that it cannot
> extrapolate AUTOLOAD results a-priori (except for auto
> split, and even that can be problematic).

AUTOLOAD is trouble yeah :) Module::Info has a useful superclasses() method
to get at parent classes, which (with a bit of recursion) can return the 
subs:

    #!/usr/bin/perl

    use Module::Info;

    print printSubs( shift );

    sub printSubs {
        my $class = shift;
        return() if ! $class;

        my $module = Module::Info->new_from_module( $class );
        my %subs = $module->subroutines();
        map { print $_."\n" } keys( %subs );

        foreach my $parent ( $module->superclasses() ) {
            printSubs( $parent );
        }
    }

//Ed


    

From brian at comdotorg.com  Sun Jan 25 21:40:10 2004
From: brian at comdotorg.com (Brian Moyles)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc?
Message-ID: <20040126034010.GA57949@comdotorg.com>


No one idling in #chicago.pm on irc.perl.org? :)  How am I supposed to
avoid productivity at work?!

From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 25 22:00:55 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc?
In-Reply-To: <20040126034010.GA57949@comdotorg.com>
References: <20040126034010.GA57949@comdotorg.com>
Message-ID: <20040126040055.GA21709@petdance.com>

> No one idling in #chicago.pm on irc.perl.org? :)  How am I supposed to

Now I'm there.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From andy at petdance.com  Sun Jan 25 22:01:51 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] New to the List, Tech Meeting Length?
In-Reply-To: <4014185B.7080605@danconia.org>
References: <4014185B.7080605@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <20040126040151.GB21709@petdance.com>

> I am new to the mailing list, not really in the area, but considering 
> coming up for the tech meeting on POE on 2/3, how long is it expected to 
> last, or how long have others lasted?  I assume anyone is invited to 
> join or visit?  I am still attempting to make my way into Chicago...

All are welcome.  Talks are about 90 minutes, but we hang out afterwards
and sometimes make our way to Friday's afterwards.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Mon Jan 26 00:05:18 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
In-Reply-To: <20040126013416.GB18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
	<522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]>
	<20040126013416.GB18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <697610000.1075097118@[192.168.200.4]>


> AUTOLOAD is trouble yeah :) Module::Info has a useful superclasses()
> method to get at parent classes, which (with a bit of recursion) can
> return the  subs:

Which means it may not handle auto-splits either.

Again, why would someone need this -- aside from
auto-documenting code? Calling "can" will tell you
if something has the method and deals with AUTOLOAD
gracefully.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From me at heyjay.com  Mon Jan 26 08:22:54 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30><522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]><20040126013416.GB18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<697610000.1075097118@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <003d01c3e417$e50f6d00$6405a8c0@a30>

Well, I was going to use it because I have one module (client) which the
caller requests methods like:

reqMktData
placeOrder
cancelOrder

this module then calls a liked named function on my poe server.  I figured
instead of writing a specific function in this module for each function on
the poe server.   I would just dynamically check it that function exists,
and handle all the calls with AUTOLOADER.  Unfortunately, the module::info
takes too long so instead I just have a list of functions available and
still use AUTOLOADER to call them

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lembark" <lembark@wrkhors.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list


>
> > AUTOLOAD is trouble yeah :) Module::Info has a useful superclasses()
> > method to get at parent classes, which (with a bit of recursion) can
> > return the  subs:
>
> Which means it may not handle auto-splits either.
>
> Again, why would someone need this -- aside from
> auto-documenting code? Calling "can" will tell you
> if something has the method and deals with AUTOLOAD
> gracefully.
>
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From ehs at pobox.com  Mon Jan 26 09:44:58 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
In-Reply-To: <697610000.1075097118@[192.168.200.4]>
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
	<522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]>
	<20040126013416.GB18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<697610000.1075097118@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040126154458.GA26941@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:05:18AM -0600, Steven Lembark wrote:
> Again, why would someone need this...

Reflection is useful when you are doing stuff (like I was a year ago) 
writing an application that would create a directed graph of a particularly
nasty and complicated class hierarchy. OOP is great, but sometimes it's 
hard for a new person coming in to picture that hierarchy in their head,
especially if the classes themselves have crap names.

But, as you say, this is a type of auto-documentation...which is a handy thing 
to be able to do, especially in large and complicated systems.

//Ed

From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Mon Jan 26 10:43:15 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

what syntax did they break?

Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Lembark [mailto:lembark@wrkhors.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 5:44 PM
> To: Chicago.pm chatter
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>
> 
> >> I'd pick vile (ftp://invisible-island.net/vile). It
> >> uses the simpler command structure of vi with the
> >> multiple-buffering, hiliting, etc, of emacs.
> >
> > So does vim.
> >
> > I'd go so far to say as that vim is the standard vi these days.
> 
> Problem is that they broke so much of the original
> vi syntax that it's hard to switch between stock
> versions on other systems (e.g., uu).
> 
> 
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
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and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept 
and block all communications involving its computer systems.








From gdf at speakeasy.net  Mon Jan 26 11:36:00 2004
From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
Message-ID: <200401261736.i0QHa2G29585@mail.pm.org>

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:35:26 -0600, "Sachin Karol" <skarol1@uic.edu> wrote:
> >From a novice user's point of view, which is the best editor for perl? I
> have been using pico but can use help with color highlights of the
> syntax etc.

I won't participate in a religious argument about it, but just to
uphold the honor of the clan:

Xemacs and emacs both have interactive tutorials under their "Help"
menus, should you wish to familiarize yourself.  I'm personally more
productive in emacs-land than vi-land, and could lend some advice
(both general and perl-related).

I also endorse Komodo for the upcoming novice.

--
Greg Fast
http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Mon Jan 26 09:15:37 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
In-Reply-To: <003d01c3e417$e50f6d00$6405a8c0@a30>
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
	<522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]>
	<20040126013416.GB18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<697610000.1075097118@[192.168.200.4]>
	<003d01c3e417$e50f6d00$6405a8c0@a30>
Message-ID: <23620000.1075130137@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Jay Strauss <me@heyjay.com>

> Well, I was going to use it because I have one module (client) which the
> caller requests methods like:
>
> reqMktData
> placeOrder
> cancelOrder
>
> this module then calls a liked named function on my poe server.  I figured
> instead of writing a specific function in this module for each function on
> the poe server.   I would just dynamically check it that function exists,
> and handle all the calls with AUTOLOADER.  Unfortunately, the module::info
> takes too long so instead I just have a list of functions available and
> still use AUTOLOADER to call them


    my $othermodule = 'What::Ever';

    sub AUTOLOADER
    {
        my $name = ...


        if( my $sub = $othermodule->can( $name ) )
        {
            # call it or install it.
        }
    }

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Mon Jan 26 09:17:24 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Asking an class for its method list
In-Reply-To: <20040126154458.GA26941@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <000701c3e395$a8d99590$6405a8c0@a30>
	<522940000.1075075570@[192.168.200.4]>
	<20040126013416.GB18833@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<697610000.1075097118@[192.168.200.4]>
	<20040126154458.GA26941@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <23720000.1075130244@[192.168.100.3]>



-- Ed Summers <ehs@pobox.com>

> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 12:05:18AM -0600, Steven Lembark wrote:
>> Again, why would someone need this...
>
> Reflection is useful when you are doing stuff (like I was a year ago)
> writing an application that would create a directed graph of a
> particularly nasty and complicated class hierarchy. OOP is great, but
> sometimes it's  hard for a new person coming in to picture that hierarchy
> in their head, especially if the classes themselves have crap names.
>
> But, as you say, this is a type of auto-documentation...which is a handy
> thing  to be able to do, especially in large and complicated systems.

For doc's I can see it, for code I cannot see where blah->can($name)
won't do the deed.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Mon Jan 26 09:19:55 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup
	.com>
Message-ID: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>



-- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>

> what syntax did they break?

The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.

In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
typing it 2-3 times...

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Mon Jan 26 18:17:38 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <OFC5EFF20B.E46B41A3-ON86256E28.00018BEA-86256E28.0001AC7D@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Yeah, know the feeling - Ctrl-r (for redoing last undo) helps a bit, but 
its taken a while to stop that.  However, I bet its a configuration 
option, in vim.

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:12:54 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AD06.70208@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:13:01 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AD0D.5090500@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:13:24 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AD24.6020102@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:13:51 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AD3F.8040306@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:14:14 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AD56.7090305@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:14:27 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AD63.2060804@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:16:03 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:03 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015ADC3.6010504@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:16:34 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015ADE2.9080909@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:16:51 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015ADF3.6000703@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:18:07 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AE3F.4010902@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:18:34 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015AE5A.502@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From shild at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 26 18:37:18 2004
From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <4015AE5A.502@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20040126183718.shild@sbcglobal.net>


Has anybody else gotten this reply 10 times?

On 27-Jan-2004 Wiggins d'Anconia wrote:
> Steven Lembark wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
>> 
>>> what syntax did they break?
>> 
>> 
>> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
>> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
>> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
>> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
>> 
>> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
>> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
>> typing it 2-3 times...
>> 
> 
> Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
> but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
> options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:
> 
> "Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
> 'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
> 'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
> Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
> -1 for no undo at all."
> 
> Next?  ;-)
> 
> http://danconia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Scott T. Hildreth <shild@sbcglobal.net>
Date: 26-Jan-2004
Time: 18:36:20
----------------------------------

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:34:56 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	.com>
	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
Message-ID: <4015B230.7010700@danconia.org>

Steven Lembark wrote:
> 
> 
> -- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>
> 
>> what syntax did they break?
> 
> 
> The thing that bites me most often is 'u'. Typing "uu"
> in other vi editors dues a duble-undo, which removes and
> replaces the last change. This is nice for getting back
> to the location of your last change or seeing its effects.
> 
> In vim 'u' backs out multiple changes, which can be a real
> hassle if you are used to 'u' getting someplace and end up
> typing it 2-3 times...
> 

Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own, 
but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual 
options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

"Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
-1 for no undo at all."

Next?  ;-)

http://danconia.org

From wiggins at danconia.org  Mon Jan 26 18:36:13 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20040126183718.shild@sbcglobal.net>
References: <XFMail.20040126183718.shild@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <4015B27D.8040202@danconia.org>

Scott T. Hildreth wrote:
> Has anybody else gotten this reply 10 times?
> 

Sorry about that, apparently my SMTP server is telling my client that it 
isn't sending mail when it is.  Time to call Ameritech, grr.

http://danconia.org

From andy at petdance.com  Mon Jan 26 20:17:32 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <OFC5EFF20B.E46B41A3-ON86256E28.00018BEA-86256E28.0001AC7D@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
References: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
	<OFC5EFF20B.E46B41A3-ON86256E28.00018BEA-86256E28.0001AC7D@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
Message-ID: <20040127021732.GA24159@petdance.com>

> Yeah, know the feeling - Ctrl-r (for redoing last undo) helps a bit, but 
> its taken a while to stop that.  However, I bet its a configuration 
> option, in vim.

Yes, vim can run in strict vi-compatible mode.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jan 27 00:46:16 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <4015AD06.70208@danconia.org>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	
	.com>	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
	<4015AD06.70208@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <937140000.1075185976@[192.168.200.4]>


> Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to each their own,
> but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of the individual
> options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:

I've spent too much time switching between vi on
Solaris, SunOS, HP-UX, AIX, Linux, BSD, and IRIX
as su on damaged systems. Predictability -- as in
leavig the original vi syntax alone -- becomes
rather useful hacking files in single-user mode.

It's also a nice thing if you have to walk into a
site that doesn't have vim and start work. At least
with vile the "stock" vi commands still live in my
muscle memory. I may get frustrated with the lack
of some vile commands but at least won't fry myself
typing incorrect working commands (get more than a
few beeps though :-).

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jan 27 00:47:18 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20040127021732.GA24159@petdance.com>
References: <23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
	<OFC5EFF20B.E46B41A3-ON86256E28.00018BEA-86256E28.0001AC7D@uscmail.uscourts.
	gov> <20040127021732.GA24159@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <939000000.1075186038@[192.168.200.4]>



-- Andy Lester <andy@petdance.com>

>> Yeah, know the feeling - Ctrl-r (for redoing last undo) helps a bit, but
>> its taken a while to stop that.  However, I bet its a configuration
>> option, in vim.
>
> Yes, vim can run in strict vi-compatible mode.

I'm not saying that "all you ever want is vi", just that
muscle memory from stock vi implementations shouldn't
lead to errors after they've added the new features.



--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Tue Jan 27 00:52:35 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <4015B230.7010700@danconia.org>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786EDC@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup	
	.com>	<23820000.1075130395@[192.168.100.3]>
	<4015B230.7010700@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <941730000.1075186355@[192.168.200.4]>


> "Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
> 'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
> 'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered (default 1000).
> Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
> -1 for no undo at all."

Quick, without looking at the manual, man pages, or printed
cheat notes list all of the settings that affect any keystrokes
defined in the original vi... I certianly can't remember that
much -- and am certianly likely to fry myself walking into a
place that has customized the vi keyboard responses.

I use vile's extensions all of the time, and miss them sorely
when I'm on a site without them. But at least I can walk up
to a stock, out-of-the-box Solaris vi and get my work done
without looking like an idiot retyping things that get fried
by misadvertent muscle memory.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Tue Jan 27 14:33:14 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F87@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

isn't this the same argument that someone could make about some of the 

improvements slated for Perl6?


Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Lembark [mailto:lembark@wrkhors.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:46 AM
> To: Chicago.pm chatter
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
> 
> 
> 
> > Yikes, to me that is the best improvement possible...to 
> each their own,
> > but Vim does come with vi compatibility mode, and most of 
> the individual
> > options can be handled separately... from the Vim docs:
> 
> I've spent too much time switching between vi on
> Solaris, SunOS, HP-UX, AIX, Linux, BSD, and IRIX
> as su on damaged systems. Predictability -- as in
> leavig the original vi syntax alone -- becomes
> rather useful hacking files in single-user mode.
> 
> It's also a nice thing if you have to walk into a
> site that doesn't have vim and start work. At least
> with vile the "stock" vi commands still live in my
> muscle memory. I may get frustrated with the lack
> of some vile commands but at least won't fry myself
> typing incorrect working commands (get more than a
> few beeps though :-).
> 
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE

This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and 
proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). 
Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the 
information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us 
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and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately 
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and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept 
and block all communications involving its computer systems.








From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Tue Jan 27 14:35:36 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F88@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

so, is someone looking over you shoulder when you go into these sites
laughing at your lack of vi skillz?

It seems to me that any site that has the stock vi installed doesn't
care a thing about vi.  No one that uses it seriously looks at vim (or
any other clone) and says, 

Nah, that's all too complicated, I'll stick with one level undo.

Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Lembark [mailto:lembark@wrkhors.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:53 AM
> To: Chicago.pm chatter
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
> 
> 
> 
> > "Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
> > 'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
> > 'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered 
> (default 1000).
> > Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
> > -1 for no undo at all."
> 
> Quick, without looking at the manual, man pages, or printed
> cheat notes list all of the settings that affect any keystrokes
> defined in the original vi... I certianly can't remember that
> much -- and am certianly likely to fry myself walking into a
> place that has customized the vi keyboard responses.
> 
> I use vile's extensions all of the time, and miss them sorely
> when I'm on a site without them. But at least I can walk up
> to a stock, out-of-the-box Solaris vi and get my work done
> without looking like an idiot retyping things that get fried
> by misadvertent muscle memory.
> 
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE

This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and 
proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). 
Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the 
information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us 
immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312-395-2100 
and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately 
without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We cannot give 
any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses 
and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept 
and block all communications involving its computer systems.








From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com  Tue Jan 27 14:39:51 2004
From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
Message-ID: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51C2D@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>

don't make mistakes and one level of undo is plenty.

iv only used the default installed vi editor.

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Young, Aaron
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 2:36 PM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?


so, is someone looking over you shoulder when you go into these sites
laughing at your lack of vi skillz?

It seems to me that any site that has the stock vi installed doesn't
care a thing about vi.  No one that uses it seriously looks at vim (or
any other clone) and says, 

Nah, that's all too complicated, I'll stick with one level undo.

Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Lembark [mailto:lembark@wrkhors.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:53 AM
> To: Chicago.pm chatter
> Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
> 
> 
> 
> > "Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
> > 'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  Set option
> > 'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered 
> (default 1000).
> > Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. Set it to
> > -1 for no undo at all."
> 
> Quick, without looking at the manual, man pages, or printed
> cheat notes list all of the settings that affect any keystrokes
> defined in the original vi... I certianly can't remember that
> much -- and am certianly likely to fry myself walking into a
> place that has customized the vi keyboard responses.
> 
> I use vile's extensions all of the time, and miss them sorely
> when I'm on a site without them. But at least I can walk up
> to a stock, out-of-the-box Solaris vi and get my work done
> without looking like an idiot retyping things that get fried
> by misadvertent muscle memory.
> 
> --
> Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
>                                             +1 888 359 3508
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
-------------------------

CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE

This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and 
proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). 
Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in
the 
information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us 
immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312-395-2100 
and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately 
without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We cannot give 
any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses 
and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept 
and block all communications involving its computer systems.







_______________________________________________
Chicago-talk mailing list
Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk

From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Tue Jan 27 14:48:10 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F8D@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

and you stay away from the other vi clones for a reason?

is it that all those other features are too much? is it the load time?

redhat installs it by default and i've never heard any mass complaints
(i don't use redhat, so this may have changed)

Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dooley, Michael [mailto:Dooley.Michael@con-way.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 2:40 PM
> To: 'Chicago.pm chatter'
> Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
> 
> 
> don't make mistakes and one level of undo is plenty.
> 
> iv only used the default installed vi editor.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
> [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Young, Aaron
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 2:36 PM
> To: Chicago.pm chatter
> Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
> 
> 
> so, is someone looking over you shoulder when you go into these sites
> laughing at your lack of vi skillz?
> 
> It seems to me that any site that has the stock vi installed doesn't
> care a thing about vi.  No one that uses it seriously looks at vim (or
> any other clone) and says, 
> 
> Nah, that's all too complicated, I'll stick with one level undo.
> 
> Aaron F Young
> Broker Reconciliation
> Operations & Portfolio Finance
> Citadel Investment Group LLC 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steven Lembark [mailto:lembark@wrkhors.com] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:53 AM
> > To: Chicago.pm chatter
> > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > "Multi level undo.                                       |undo|
> > > 'u' goes backward in time, 'ctrl-R' goes forward again.  
> Set option
> > > 'undolevels' to the number of changes to be remembered 
> > (default 1000).
> > > Set 'undolevels' to 0 for a vi-compatible one level undo. 
> Set it to
> > > -1 for no undo at all."
> > 
> > Quick, without looking at the manual, man pages, or printed
> > cheat notes list all of the settings that affect any keystrokes
> > defined in the original vi... I certianly can't remember that
> > much -- and am certianly likely to fry myself walking into a
> > place that has customized the vi keyboard responses.
> > 
> > I use vile's extensions all of the time, and miss them sorely
> > when I'm on a site without them. But at least I can walk up
> > to a stock, out-of-the-box Solaris vi and get my work done
> > without looking like an idiot retyping things that get fried
> > by misadvertent muscle memory.
> > 
> > --
> > Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
> > Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
> >                                             +1 888 359 3508
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> ---------------------
> -------------------------
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE
> 
> This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and 
> proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended 
> recipient(s). 
> Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they 
> may have in
> the 
> information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us 
> immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312-395-2100 
> and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately 
> without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We 
> cannot give 
> any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free 
> of viruses 
> and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to 
> monitor, intercept 
> and block all communications involving its computer systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE

This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and 
proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). 
Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the 
information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us 
immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312-395-2100 
and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately 
without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We cannot give 
any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses 
and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept 
and block all communications involving its computer systems.








From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Jan 27 14:49:59 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F88@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F88@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>
Message-ID: <20040127204959.GF530@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 02:35:36PM -0600, Young, Aaron wrote:
> so, is someone looking over you shoulder when you go into these sites
> laughing at your lack of vi skillz?

Nah, they are just laughing about how this topic is being talked about 
"yet another" time. 

!ed

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Tue Jan 27 14:51:34 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <A1C33EA4D8F94944BB7ECFAF44A4B297C51C2D@qgats001.conway.prod.con-way.com>
Message-ID: <OFCE195672.20334A0C-ON86256E28.00721353-86256E28.0072A53B@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

I think the stock vi point was - if the box is crashed etc. the static 
linked 'vi' might be all you have (or worse, 'ed') so *not* knowing 'real' 
vi could be trouble.  Akin to the reason *not* to make /usr/bin/ksh root's 
shell in /etc/passwd. 

I use vim on a daily basis, even on  winx, but mostly as slightly snazzier 
vi; syntax highlighting, auto-syntax check (easily my favorite feature), 
folding etc.  I struggle w/ other parts every day (autoindent) and go back 
and forth on others (ignorecase in searches?).  But I think of as w/ 
typing 'dir' on *nix and 'ls' on winx; just my brain's too small.

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.

From pbaker at where2getit.com  Tue Jan 27 16:16:15 2004
From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <20040125010955.GA15456@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040124224316.GA42031@comdotorg.com>
	<20040125010955.GA15456@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <6C264876-5116-11D8-8BDD-000A95D9DE04@where2getit.com>


On Jan 24, 2004, at 7:09 PM, Ed Summers wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 04:43:16PM -0600, Brian Moyles wrote:
>> Found you guys while browsing Orkut.
>
> Speaking of Orkut, who else is on there?

I'm not. So who here can invite me?



-- 
Paul Baker

"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or 
will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom??
          -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams

GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc


From andy at petdance.com  Tue Jan 27 16:19:27 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <6C264876-5116-11D8-8BDD-000A95D9DE04@where2getit.com>
References: <20040124224316.GA42031@comdotorg.com>
	<20040125010955.GA15456@chloe.inkdroid.org>
	<6C264876-5116-11D8-8BDD-000A95D9DE04@where2getit.com>
Message-ID: <20040127221927.GA26353@petdance.com>

> >Speaking of Orkut, who else is on there?
> 
> I'm not. So who here can invite me?

Nobody right now.  It's down.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Tue Jan 27 16:20:29 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <6C264876-5116-11D8-8BDD-000A95D9DE04@where2getit.com>
Message-ID: <OF467E489C.325D75C9-ON86256E28.007AB46C-86256E28.007AC964@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

Okay, I'll bite - what's (or who?) is Orkut?

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.

From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 27 16:34:30 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] a very bad joke
Message-ID: <20040127223430.10668.qmail@web60207.mail.yahoo.com>

So, there was talk on one of the mailing lists that
perhaps when perl 6 comes around the name should be
changed to reflect its greater object oriented
capabilities. The idea was scrapped, though, when
Larry couldn't decide between

perl++
perl += 1
perl = perl + 1
perl .= chr(49)
"one more than perl"
reverse(++lrep - 1) + 1
--perl += 2

and so on.

-Jim.....

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From mike at oobak.org  Tue Jan 27 17:37:24 2004
From: mike at oobak.org (Mike Pastore)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <200401261736.i0QHa2G29585@mail.pm.org>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
	<200401261736.i0QHa2G29585@mail.pm.org>
Message-ID: <1075246644.561.4.camel@rythm.oobak.org>

On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 11:36, Greg Fast wrote:
> Xemacs and emacs both have interactive tutorials under their "Help"
> menus, should you wish to familiarize yourself.  I'm personally more
> productive in emacs-land than vi-land, and could lend some advice
> (both general and perl-related).

I'm surprised nobody mentioned "vimtutor," which comes with most vim
installations. I recommend it to people even if they're trying to learn
vanilla vi.

The biggest problem I have with vi is that eventually you start to
expect everything to act like it... for example, I'll be in a browser
window furiously pounding "j" expecting the screen to scroll down, or
I'll try to :wq out of an email. :-)


From wiggins at danconia.org  Tue Jan 27 17:55:30 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d'Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <OF467E489C.325D75C9-ON86256E28.007AB46C-86256E28.007AC964@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
References: <OF467E489C.325D75C9-ON86256E28.007AB46C-86256E28.007AC964@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
Message-ID: <4016FA72.4070909@danconia.org>

Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote:
> Okay, I'll bite - what's (or who?) is Orkut?
> 
> a

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/35067.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/35129.html

http://danconia.org

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 28 00:18:29 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F87@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F87@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup
	.com>
Message-ID: <1313530000.1075270709@[192.168.200.4]>



-- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>

> isn't this the same argument that someone could make
> about some of the improvements slated for Perl6?

Certianly: You can make any argument you like :-)

That's one of the reasons that most of P6 is being
selectively back-ported to P5 and P5 will continue
to be supported.

The main difference for me is that I don't have
"muscle memory" for a language, I do for an editor.
At its best an editor is invisible: you don't
notice IT, you notice what you're working on. At
some level a language should be similar: you
concentrate on the problem not the language; but
it's hard to get away from the idea that you're
supposed to NOTICE what language you're using.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 28 00:24:00 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F88@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F88@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup
	.com>
Message-ID: <1316760000.1075271040@[192.168.200.4]>



-- "Young, Aaron" <Aaron.Young@citadelgroup.com>

> so, is someone looking over you shoulder when you go into these sites
> laughing at your lack of vi skillz?

If I bill by the hour bring up dead servers that someone
is loosing money on by the minute: damn right. It also
happens when I'm on a site and the sysadmin doesn't like
people playing with their toys: any excuse to hassle me
will be happily used by the in-house folks.

> It seems to me that any site that has the stock vi installed doesn't
> care a thing about vi.  No one that uses it seriously looks at vim (or
> any other clone) and says,
>
> Nah, that's all too complicated, I'll stick with one level undo.

I never said they should have only one level of undo, just
that attaching the differing behavior to 'u' made it harder.
Vile pickes up pieces of emacs for that, which leaves the
original keys unchanged.

I also never said it was complicated, just that playing with
existing keystrokes makes existing muscle memory a problem.
Stevie, Elvis, and vile managed to extend vi without breaking
at least the keystrokes I use.

If all you work with is vim then it probably works out fine.
I move around too much, I guess, to have that luxury.


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 28 00:28:10 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F8D@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>
References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C786F8D@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup
	.com>
Message-ID: <1320360000.1075271290@[192.168.200.4]>


> redhat installs it by default and i've never heard any mass complaints
> (i don't use redhat, so this may have changed)

Until is stopped existing, RH used vim as their standard
vi-clone, and it works well for people who never know any
other clone -- until they are faced with another clone
and find that their muscle memory breaks things ('u'
isn't the only one, is just the one I remember).

If you are lucky enough to live with one editor then
enjoy it. People who do short-term work or have to
swtich between systems don't have the luxury of
configuring their environments to that degree. I have
to live with bash, ksh, and sh depending on my work
(talk about keystroke mismatches!).


--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 28 00:31:33 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1075246644.561.4.camel@rythm.oobak.org>
References: <000001c3e30d$6b72ee00$d7aaf880@xyz>
	<200401261736.i0QHa2G29585@mail.pm.org>
	<1075246644.561.4.camel@rythm.oobak.org>
Message-ID: <1322940000.1075271493@[192.168.200.4]>


> The biggest problem I have with vi is that eventually you start to
> expect everything to act like it... for example, I'll be in a browser
> window furiously pounding "j" expecting the screen to scroll down, or
> I'll try to :wq out of an email. :-)

use lynx.

I learned *NIX on a DEC keyboard (Ultrix). DEC's don't
have an ESC key. To this day I use ^[...

hmmm... most people will tell you how crazy modal
editors are. Watching how people use them, however,
it seems kinda like RPN: looks funny on paper but
it relly is how the human brain works.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From ejanev2 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 28 10:42:43 2004
From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1316760000.1075271040@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <20040128164243.72934.qmail@web60902.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

I spent a lot of time reading about this editor thing before I am posting. So here am I.

It is luck that there are many choices - for free :-).
One can stick to one or use more of them.

For me:

vi - as I learned it in school.
vi - The reason that Steven Lebmark gave about different machines: During past and recent
work I connect to various Unix platforms
     So for any editing vi is here. You'll find it anywhere. Habits do meter too.
     I press ":w" at other non-vi places too :-)

vim - Nice when I do some edit or better program localy. I learned about it on Mandrake Linux
   before, since than I use it on Windows too.

emacs/xemacs - They seem complicated is you have VI habits (at least this is true for me).
I'll try to give them another chance though.

Couple of friends with Unix background that I have, are also in Vi/Vim mood.
( Yet, I hope I'll make friends using Emacs and others :-)

Cheers,
Emil



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Wed Jan 28 12:26:36 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Orkut
In-Reply-To: <4016FA72.4070909@danconia.org>
Message-ID: <OF0BB76CF5.813A1D26-ON86256E29.00652887-86256E29.00656000@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

>> Okay, I'll bite - what's (or who?) is Orkut?

> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/35067.html

To mis-quote my 2nd favorite philosopher: "Not sure I'd want to belong to 
any club that would have me as a member."

a

Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.

From ehs at pobox.com  Wed Jan 28 13:10:16 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Orkut
In-Reply-To: <OF0BB76CF5.813A1D26-ON86256E29.00652887-86256E29.00656000@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
References: <4016FA72.4070909@danconia.org>
	<OF0BB76CF5.813A1D26-ON86256E29.00652887-86256E29.00656000@uscmail.uscourts.gov>
Message-ID: <20040128191016.GA18417@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 12:26:36PM -0600, Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote:
> To mis-quote my 2nd favorite philosopher: "Not sure I'd want to belong to 
> any club that would have me as a member."

Ok, I'll bite: who is your 1st? philosophy++

//Ed

From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov  Wed Jan 28 13:14:34 2004
From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: Orkut
In-Reply-To: <20040128191016.GA18417@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <OF2C39FF6C.D5252002-ON86256E29.00699299-86256E29.0069C470@uscmail.uscourts.gov>

++1. Groucho Marx

a

1. L. Wittgenstein


Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler
Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov 
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5030

It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so 
ingenious.

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Wed Jan 28 20:05:50 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Best perl editor on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20040128164243.72934.qmail@web60902.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040128164243.72934.qmail@web60902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <157220000.1075341950@[192.168.100.3]>


> emacs/xemacs - They seem complicated is you have VI habits (at least this
> is true for me). I'll try to give them another chance though.

Most of the historic reason for using emacs was support for
multiple buffers and their never-having-to-leave-your-editor
mentality. Most of that has been subsumed by more recent vi-
derived code. Today you can have most of the fetures (depending
on whether you call scheme a feature or not) from vi's as from
emacs.

At that point it boils down largely to whether you prefer a
modal editor (vi) or not (emacs or X11 gui) editors.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 29 09:31:35 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)
Message-ID: <20040129153135.6835.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com>

For those interested in such things (i.e., OS X
people), there's a new version of Camelbones that's
out (0.2.1).

For the unaware, Apple was nice enough to provide the
PerlObjCBridge to allow perl coders to write OS X apps
on the command line (i.e., access Apple's Foundation
frameworks), but that's not terribly useful, IMHO. The
camelbones framework allows you to hook into the
AppKit framework and build actual working OS X
applications in Perl. Nifty stuff.

(well, I'll editorialize and say that you should
actually just learn objective-c if you want to write
OS X apps, but I digress).

Actually, speaking of this, is anyone interested in
hearing a talk on using the camelbones framework? It's
a bit more of a speciality talk (only the OS X people
would care), but I'd be willing to do one. Of course,
I'd need at least a month or two to actually learn the
frameworks better, but since I already know perl and
already know objective-c with the cocoa frameworks for
OS X, it's fairly straightforward to me.

Any interest? If so, I'll start prepping for some
future date.

-Jim......

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From wjackson at laughingman.net  Thu Jan 29 09:39:48 2004
From: wjackson at laughingman.net (Whitney Jackson)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] addition weirdness
Message-ID: <40192944.8020808@laughingman.net>

When I run :

#!/usr/bin/perl

$total = 0;
while (<>) {
  $total += $_;
}
print "$total\n";

with a file full of numbers (http://laughingman.net/numbers.txt) as 
input I get 2752872.74999999.  Strangely the file only contains numbers 
with two digits after the decimal point.  Other number lists (including 
this same file without its last line) produce normal results.

Any idea why this is happening?

Whitney

From wiggins at danconia.org  Thu Jan 29 09:45:39 2004
From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d Anconia)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] addition weirdness
Message-ID: <200401291545.i0TFjdM24969@residualselfimage.com>



> When I run :
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> 
> $total = 0;
> while (<>) {
>   $total += $_;
> }
> print "$total\n";
> 
> with a file full of numbers (http://laughingman.net/numbers.txt) as 
> input I get 2752872.74999999.  Strangely the file only contains numbers 
> with two digits after the decimal point.  Other number lists (including 
> this same file without its last line) produce normal results.
> 
> Any idea why this is happening?
> 
> Whitney

perldoc -q decimal
http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlfaq4.html#Why-am-I-getting-long-decimals-(eg%2c-19.9499999999999)-instead-of-the-numbers-I-should-be-getting-(eg%2c-19.95)-

HTH,

http://danconia.org



From ehs at pobox.com  Thu Jan 29 10:01:04 2004
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)
In-Reply-To: <20040129153135.6835.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040129153135.6835.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 07:31:35AM -0800, Jim Thomason wrote:
> Actually, speaking of this, is anyone interested in
> hearing a talk on using the camelbones framework? It's
> a bit more of a speciality talk (only the OS X people
> would care), but I'd be willing to do one. Of course,
> I'd need at least a month or two to actually learn the
> frameworks better, but since I already know perl and
> already know objective-c with the cocoa frameworks for
> OS X, it's fairly straightforward to me.

Hell yes. I don't even use a Mac and I'm interested :) I'm sure there
are enough OSX users in chicago.pm to make this a great topic. 

At the end of last year one of Bruce Schneier's Cryptogram [1] mentioned
the work of a programmer named Alan De Smet [2] up in Wisconsin. After
looking through his website I noticed he was into Perl, and thought
it might be cool to invite him down to a meeting to talk about his
UniqueID [3] project, and other stuff. I contacted him and he said he 
would be willing to come down for our March meeting. 

What do people think, does this sound OK? The idea being that he would
talk about strange fascination with unique IDs, Perl and other stuff. If
March is not good I imagine he could do it another time.

//Ed

[1] http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram.html
[2] http://www.highprogrammer.com
[3] http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/numbers/ 





From hachi at kuiki.net  Thu Jan 29 10:02:28 2004
From: hachi at kuiki.net (Jonathan Steinert)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)
In-Reply-To: <20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040129153135.6835.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <40192E94.1070707@kuiki.net>

Ed Summers wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 07:31:35AM -0800, Jim Thomason wrote:
> 
>>Actually, speaking of this, is anyone interested in
>>hearing a talk on using the camelbones framework? It's
>>a bit more of a speciality talk (only the OS X people
>>would care), but I'd be willing to do one. Of course,
>>I'd need at least a month or two to actually learn the
>>frameworks better, but since I already know perl and
>>already know objective-c with the cocoa frameworks for
>>OS X, it's fairly straightforward to me.
> 
> 
> Hell yes. I don't even use a Mac and I'm interested :) I'm sure there
> are enough OSX users in chicago.pm to make this a great topic. 
> 
> At the end of last year one of Bruce Schneier's Cryptogram [1] mentioned
> the work of a programmer named Alan De Smet [2] up in Wisconsin. After
> looking through his website I noticed he was into Perl, and thought
> it might be cool to invite him down to a meeting to talk about his
> UniqueID [3] project, and other stuff. I contacted him and he said he 
> would be willing to come down for our March meeting. 

Can we push the talk up to this Tuesday, I'd really like to hear about it.

> 
> What do people think, does this sound OK? The idea being that he would
> talk about strange fascination with unique IDs, Perl and other stuff. If
> March is not good I imagine he could do it another time.
> 
> //Ed
> 

















YES, I AM KIDDING, PUT THE STONES DOWN PLEASE!

--Jonathan


From andy at petdance.com  Thu Jan 29 10:06:45 2004
From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tuesday's Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040129153135.6835.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <20040129160645.GA30863@petdance.com>

> Hell yes. I don't even use a Mac and I'm interested :) I'm sure there
> are enough OSX users in chicago.pm to make this a great topic. 

And you OSX users will be glad to know that one of the books we have to
give away on Tuesday is the new Mac OS X Missing Manual.  I'm putting my
name in the hat for this one.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

From jt at plainblack.com  Thu Jan 29 10:17:12 2004
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)
In-Reply-To: <20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <web-786437@plainblack.com>

I'd be interested in hearing about both camelbones and the unique id talk.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:01:04 -0600
  Ed Summers <ehs@pobox.com> wrote:
>On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 07:31:35AM -0800, Jim Thomason wrote:
>> Actually, speaking of this, is anyone interested in
>> hearing a talk on using the camelbones framework? It's
>> a bit more of a speciality talk (only the OS X people
>> would care), but I'd be willing to do one. Of course,
>> I'd need at least a month or two to actually learn the
>> frameworks better, but since I already know perl and
>> already know objective-c with the cocoa frameworks for
>> OS X, it's fairly straightforward to me.
>
>Hell yes. I don't even use a Mac and I'm interested :) I'm sure there
>are enough OSX users in chicago.pm to make this a great topic. 
>
>At the end of last year one of Bruce Schneier's Cryptogram [1] mentioned
>the work of a programmer named Alan De Smet [2] up in Wisconsin. After
>looking through his website I noticed he was into Perl, and thought
>it might be cool to invite him down to a meeting to talk about his
>UniqueID [3] project, and other stuff. I contacted him and he said he 
>would be willing to come down for our March meeting. 
>
>What do people think, does this sound OK? The idea being that he would
>talk about strange fascination with unique IDs, Perl and other stuff. If
>March is not good I imagine he could do it another time.
>
>//Ed
>
>[1] http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram.html
>[2] http://www.highprogrammer.com
>[3] http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/numbers/ 
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Chicago-talk mailing list
>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk


JT ~ Plain Black

Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. 

From lembark at wrkhors.com  Thu Jan 29 10:29:44 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] addition weirdness
In-Reply-To: <40192944.8020808@laughingman.net>
References: <40192944.8020808@laughingman.net>
Message-ID: <1949860000.1075393784@[192.168.200.4]>


> Any idea why this is happening?

IEEE number formats have a limit on scale. When you try
to add integers the .00000000 part eventually starts
rounding and you end up with a .999999 or .000001 [don't
quote me on the exact precision].

This also happens if you add a bunch of values in
tentns (i.e., /\d\.[0-9]/) since 1/10 is a repeating
fraction base two.

If this is a problem then

	use integer;

will give you integer precision up to your processor's
word limit; use <IForgot>::BigInt does pretty much what it
sounds like.

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From pbaker at where2getit.com  Thu Jan 29 10:26:27 2004
From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)
In-Reply-To: <20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <20040129153135.6835.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040129160104.GB21314@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <E355A3F2-5277-11D8-89A2-000A95D9DE04@where2getit.com>


On Jan 29, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Ed Summers wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 07:31:35AM -0800, Jim Thomason wrote:
>> Actually, speaking of this, is anyone interested in
>> hearing a talk on using the camelbones framework? It's
>> a bit more of a speciality talk (only the OS X people
>> would care), but I'd be willing to do one. Of course,
>> I'd need at least a month or two to actually learn the
>> frameworks better, but since I already know perl and
>> already know objective-c with the cocoa frameworks for
>> OS X, it's fairly straightforward to me.
>
> Hell yes. I don't even use a Mac and I'm interested :) I'm sure there
> are enough OSX users in chicago.pm to make this a great topic.

I second that hell yes, except that I do use a Mac. (I am replying to 
this from my Powerbook G4 afterall)

And you are right...I should just learn ObjC. And I would, I just 
haven't found any programs I need to write yet for the Mac that someone 
else hasn't already written. Well except for a free replacement for 
Word and Excel that doesn't suck. Yeah that's right I said it. Open 
Office for the Mac sucks...in it's current form. I refuse to use a 
program where I have to hit ctrl+s to save my document.

-- 
Paul Baker

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
          -- Philip K. Dick

GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc


From jt at plainblack.com  Thu Jan 29 10:39:47 2004
From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tuesday's Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20040129160645.GA30863@petdance.com>
Message-ID: <web-786508@plainblack.com>

>And you OSX users will be glad to know that one of the books we have to
>give away on Tuesday is the new Mac OS X Missing Manual.  I'm putting my
>name in the hat for this one.

No way dude, that book is mine!



JT ~ Plain Black

Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. 

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Thu Jan 29 11:32:33 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)
In-Reply-To: <20040129153135.6835.qmail@web60209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEHIDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

How does camelbones compare to SWIG?

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Jim Thomason
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:32 AM
To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)


For those interested in such things (i.e., OS X
people), there's a new version of Camelbones that's
out (0.2.1).

For the unaware, Apple was nice enough to provide the
PerlObjCBridge to allow perl coders to write OS X apps
on the command line (i.e., access Apple's Foundation
frameworks), but that's not terribly useful, IMHO. The
camelbones framework allows you to hook into the
AppKit framework and build actual working OS X
applications in Perl. Nifty stuff.

(well, I'll editorialize and say that you should
actually just learn objective-c if you want to write
OS X apps, but I digress).

Actually, speaking of this, is anyone interested in
hearing a talk on using the camelbones framework? It's
a bit more of a speciality talk (only the OS X people
would care), but I'd be willing to do one. Of course,
I'd need at least a month or two to actually learn the
frameworks better, but since I already know perl and
already know objective-c with the cocoa frameworks for
OS X, it's fairly straightforward to me.

Any interest? If so, I'll start prepping for some
future date.

-Jim......

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From jthomasoniii at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 29 12:28:13 2004
From: jthomasoniii at yahoo.com (Jim Thomason)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] new camelbones (0.2.1)
In-Reply-To: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIIEHIDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>
Message-ID: <20040129182813.24999.qmail@web60205.mail.yahoo.com>

--- petemar1 <petemar1@perlmonk.org> wrote:
> How does camelbones compare to SWIG?

I'm not familiar with SWIG, but in poking through its
docs a bit, they appear to be completely different
beasts.

Camelbones works as a bridge between perl and OS X's
AppKit framework. And that's all it does.

Using it, you can write full fledged OS X applications
in perl (or mostly perl, I haven't reviewed 0.2.1
completely yet, I know the earlier versions required
at least some objective-C for some things). 

So you want some OS X gui to your perl app? You'd use
camelbones to do it. There are other ways to access
your perl code, but they involve more objective-C. In
terms of analogies, it's closest to using Tk. Except
you get an interface builder (namely, coincidentally
enough, Interface Builder (one of apple's tools)), an
excessive amount of options for interface, and a
resulting product that looks like it belongs on OS X.

(I may be getting ahead of myself, admittedly, since I
haven't kept up with Tk developments under OS X)

Regardless, as I understand it, SWIG and Camelbones
serve completely different purposes.

-Jim....

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From mcgee at myway.com  Fri Jan 30 13:25:18 2004
From: mcgee at myway.com (Sam)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20040130192518.A2C5539CE@mprdmxin.myway.com>


I remember reading a review (and the related discussion) on Hacking Tivo and am looking for advice on buying a Hughes, RCA or Philips DirectTV Tivo.  Any recommendations or experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sam




_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com

From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com  Fri Jan 30 13:45:07 2004
From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0C787125@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com>

i have a phillips and have had no problems with it

i don't have that book handy, but if you intend on upgrading it, then
you may want to look there to find the one that's the easiest (meaning:
it already has hardware for an additional drive, etc)

Aaron F Young
Broker Reconciliation
Operations & Portfolio Finance
Citadel Investment Group LLC 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam [mailto:mcgee@myway.com] 
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:25 PM
> To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)
> 
> 
> 
> I remember reading a review (and the related discussion) on 
> Hacking Tivo and am looking for advice on buying a Hughes, 
> RCA or Philips DirectTV Tivo.  Any recommendations or 
> experiences would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> 
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From me at heyjay.com  Fri Jan 30 21:13:29 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)
References: <20040130192518.A2C5539CE@mprdmxin.myway.com>
Message-ID: <005601c3e7a8$3bc4efb0$6405a8c0@a30>

I have an RCA DirectTV/Tivo.  Built in Tivo is much better than standalone
Tivo, and DirectTV signal blows away RCNs cable.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam" <mcgee@myway.com>
To: <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:25 PM
Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)


>
> I remember reading a review (and the related discussion) on Hacking Tivo
and am looking for advice on buying a Hughes, RCA or Philips DirectTV Tivo.
Any recommendations or experiences would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
>
>


From me at heyjay.com  Fri Jan 30 21:15:23 2004
From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <006e01c3e7a8$780d10b0$6405a8c0@a30>

Oh yeah, My RCN tivo has worked great for the 2 months I've had it


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Strauss" <me@heyjay.com>
To: "Chicago.pm chatter" <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)


> I have an RCA DirectTV/Tivo.  Built in Tivo is much better than standalone
> Tivo, and DirectTV signal blows away RCNs cable.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam" <mcgee@myway.com>
> To: <chicago-talk@mail.pm.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:25 PM
> Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject)
>
>
> >
> > I remember reading a review (and the related discussion) on Hacking Tivo
> and am looking for advice on buying a Hughes, RCA or Philips DirectTV
Tivo.
> Any recommendations or experiences would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> > Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago-talk mailing list
> > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org
> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> >
> >
>


From lembark at wrkhors.com  Sat Jan 31 02:44:09 2004
From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] [OT] This one is worth having just for the name :-)
Message-ID: <2525750000.1075538649@[192.168.200.4]>


<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111549/>

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508

From petemar1 at perlmonk.org  Sat Jan 31 08:36:14 2004
From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1)
Date: Mon Aug  2 21:28:04 2004
Subject: [Chicago-talk] [OT] This one is worth having just for the name :-)
In-Reply-To: <2525750000.1075538649@[192.168.200.4]>
Message-ID: <KOEBLHPNCBKEDIGNJKOIOEIEDGAA.petemar1@perlmonk.org>

http://www.friendsofed.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org
[mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Steven Lembark
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 2:44 AM
To: Chicago.pm chatter
Subject: [Chicago-talk] [OT] This one is worth having just for the name
:-)



<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111549/>

--
Steven Lembark                               2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing                       Chicago, IL 60647
                                            +1 888 359 3508
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