From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 1 09:56:33 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Consulting gig in McHenry Message-ID: If you're looking for a consulting job, I've got a short-term one that we need ASAP up in McHenry, helping us hunt down a segfault that we've spent six man-weeks on. See http://jobs.perl.org/job/942 for details. Thanks, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 1 10:13:02 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Searching archives Message-ID: <004601c3709b$8b6ec4c0$6405a8c0@a30> Will we be able to search the new fangled archives? Jay From jason at multiply.org Mon Sep 1 11:01:01 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Topic for next meeting: Perl Blogging Techniques Message-ID: <000401c370a2$4176bf60$0f01a8c0@PICARD> Hi All. I will be giving the talk in a couple weeks on perl blogging techniques. Here is my 30 second description: Blogs are everywhere. Blogs are those pages that wannabe critics use to post rants about new movies/games/tv shows/music etc. They are also those pages that have entry after entry of personal journal writing. Or political ranting. Or tech ranting. Basically lots of ranting. ;) But a blog is more than that. A blog is a simple way for people or groups to publish ANYTHING. Blogs are built with blog software, some with complete web interfaces, some very simple. Most have external programming APIs or, like any web app, can be scripted via WWW::Mechanize. This is where things get interesting. Since blogs don't have a set content (or content presentation structure), you can use the output format and posting APIs to do whatever you like. Here is my rough outline for the talk. As I finish it up, I will post code samples and PDFs of the handouts on my site: http://www.multiply.org/notebook/ 1.Blog Basics (brief) 1.What is a Blog? 2.What software exists for setting up a blog? 2.How can I use perl with my blog?. 1.General Info 1.APIs are based on XMLRPC. 2.Some (like MT.pm) use the vendor's code directly. 2.Blogger API0. 3.MetaWeblog API 4.Movable Type Extended API 5.Net::Blogger 6.WWW::Mechanize 3.Uses for these APIs: Alternative Interfaces 1.Cell Phones 2.Email 3.Instant Messenger 4.What APIs are out there to find out who is talking about my site? 1.Trackback 2.Technorati 3.Good Ol' Fashioned Google 5.How can I syndicate my site or find out when other people have updated their sites? 1.HEAD 2.PING 3.RSS/RDF 6.What does the future hold? 1.Echo/ATOM API 2.Syndication formats? 3.Semantic Web? 7.Questions? I hope to see you there! BTW: I have also been asked to do this talk at COD in October. I will post details when I dig them out. -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 1 14:51:04 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Topic for next meeting: Perl Blogging Techniques In-Reply-To: <000401c370a2$4176bf60$0f01a8c0@PICARD> References: <000401c370a2$4176bf60$0f01a8c0@PICARD> Message-ID: <20030901195104.GA21837@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:01:01AM -0500, jason scott gessner wrote: > Here is my 30 second description: Wonderful. I've updated the website in CVS and the next time Andy refreshes the site it will go out live. I've also added an article on use.perl.org which will hopefully get accepted in time. I'm looking forward to your talk! //Ed From jstrauss at hostdb.com Mon Sep 1 10:09:53 2003 From: jstrauss at hostdb.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: [Chicago.pm]: Slow WWW::Mechanize References: <848655993-1463792638-1061865072@boing.topica.com> <133401789-1463792382-1061866111@boing.topica.com> <93478995-1463792638-1061868028@boing.topica.com> <1181186232-1463792126-1061868445@boing.topica.com> <1212986830-1463792126-1061869139@boing.topica.com> <1147348157-1463792382-1062286871@boing.topica.com> Message-ID: <004701c3709b$8c557b40$6405a8c0@a30> I didn't check, but I will now. What's "IOW"? Jay > Did you check the page for "Javascript liveness testing" (IOW, something > they set or do using Javascript to distinguish "real browsers" from bots)? > > Jay Strauss wrote: > > > Sorry, just loaded the newest version > > > > Alias problem gone, speed (lack of) remains > > > > Jay > > -- > Brian Katzung, President, Kappa Computer Solutions, LLC > Phone +1.877.367.8837 or visit http://www.kappacs.com/ > > -- > undef$/;open # "moc.acipot@ebircsbusnu-mp-ogacihc" liam ,busnu ot > STDIN,$0;print # mp-ogacihc/stsil/moc.acipot.www//:ptth > scalar(reverse # moc.acipot@mp-ogacihc > scalar<>),"\n" # sregnoM lreP ogacihC -- mp.ogacihC > > --^---------------------------------------------------------------- > This email was sent to: jstrauss@hostdb.com > > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiI5.a5Y4eG.anN0cmF1 > Or send an email to: chicago-pm-unsubscribe@topica.com > > TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html > --^---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 1 21:13:18 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Searching archives References: <004601c3709b$8b6ec4c0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <003d01c370f7$d5a99680$6305a8c0@WASHINGTON> That's too bad, no search definitely cuts down the list's benefit (at least for me) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lester" To: "Jay Strauss" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Searching archives > >Will we be able to search the new fangled archives? > > > >Jay > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > All the functionality that exists is at that URL up there. > > xoa > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Mon Sep 1 21:46:59 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Searching archives In-Reply-To: <003d01c370f7$d5a99680$6305a8c0@WASHINGTON> References: <004601c3709b$8b6ec4c0$6405a8c0@a30> <003d01c370f7$d5a99680$6305a8c0@WASHINGTON> Message-ID: <209250000.1062470819@[192.168.200.4]> --On Monday, September 01, 2003 21:13:18 -0500 Jay Strauss wrote: > That's too bad, no search definitely cuts down the list's benefit (at > least for me) What do you want from a list run by Python; if it were important you've have memorized it the first time :-) I could digest the list and put it someplace searchable; my mail goes through extra storage filters anyway. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 1 21:57:16 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Searching archives In-Reply-To: <209250000.1062470819@[192.168.200.4]> References: <004601c3709b$8b6ec4c0$6405a8c0@a30> <003d01c370f7$d5a99680$6305a8c0@WASHINGTON> <209250000.1062470819@[192.168.200.4]> Message-ID: At 9:46 PM -0500 9/1/03, Steven Lembark wrote: >--On Monday, September 01, 2003 21:13:18 -0500 Jay Strauss > wrote: > >>That's too bad, no search definitely cuts down the list's benefit (at >>least for me) > >What do you want from a list run by Python; if it were important >you've have memorized it the first time :-) > >I could digest the list and put it someplace searchable; my mail goes >through extra storage filters anyway. It's thread-searchable, although not keyword. That's usually more useful to me anyway. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jt at plainblack.com Tue Sep 2 12:17:29 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Developer Contest ($3000) Message-ID: Hey all, Just wanted to let you know that we're sponsoring a Perl programming contest with a top prize of $1000 and total prizes of $3000. Anybody is welcome to enter into the contest, so feel free to pass it along to any other perl monger lists, or anybody you'd think would be interested. You can read the entire contest rules here: http://www.plainblack.com/contest Feel free to drop me an email if you've got any questions. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 2 13:46:40 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] [Perl Jobs] Perl/mod_perl application developer for educational services (onsite), United States, IL, Skokie] Message-ID: <20030902184640.GA16003@ink.inkdroid.org> In case you are not on the jobs.perl.org list. //Ed -- Date: 2 Sep 2003 18:15:11 -0000 From: Perl Jobs To: jobs@perl.org Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl/mod_perl application developer for educational services (onsite), United States, IL, Skokie Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/311 To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. Posted: September 2, 2003 Job title: Perl/mod_perl application developer for educational services Company name: Edison Schools Location: United States, IL, Skokie Travel: 0% Terms of employment: Salaried employee Hours: Full time Onsite: yes Description: Edison is the nation's largest private manager of public schools. Over the course of three years of intensive research, Edison's team of leading educators and scholars developed an innovative curriculum and school design. The position will be responsible for assisting the Edison technology team in designing, implementing, deploying and maintaining web based applications which are in a distributed environment. This is an opportunity to work on building applications from the ground up as well as porting/refactoring existing code into the new architecture. Genuine interest in researching/learning new technologies is expected and encouraged. Required skills: 3+ yrs. Perl 1+ yrs. mod_perl Mason Template-Toolkit Apache DBI SQL, Postgres Basic Object Oriented methodology Desired skills: XML SQL, Oracle Advanced object oriented methodology Design Patterns (MVC) Data import, crunching and reporting Secondary language (C/C++, Java, Python, Ruby) Distributed computing BSCS/MSCS URL for more information: http://www.edisonschools.com/ Contact information: Human Resources Edison Schools 8808 N. Bronx Ave suite #206 Skokie, IL 60077 Send resume to : hr@edisonaffiliates.com ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Ed Summers aim: inkdroid web: http://www.inkdroid.org "The deeper I go the darker it gets." - Peter Gabriel From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 2 15:26:57 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] hack books (amazon & tivo) Message-ID: <20030902202657.GC16003@ink.inkdroid.org> O'Reilly really (really) wants to get reviews for their Amazon Hacks [1] and Tivo Hacks [2]. These are short books and should be pretty easy to review for an interested pm'er. The books are in the mail so email me if you are interested. //Ed [1] http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/amazonhks/ [2] http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/tivohks/ -- Ed Summers aim: inkdroid web: http://www.inkdroid.org From shawn at owbn.org Wed Sep 3 10:12:02 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list Message-ID: <3399.144.208.64.122.1062601922.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> I'm liable to kick off a shit storm here, but.... Who made the choice to remove the Reply-To: header when we moved to mail.pm.org? I believe that most people believe that when you are replying to a message from a list, the reply goes back to the list. As it is set up now, it takes thought to reply to the list, in that one has to reply-all, etc. Before Randall brings out his old saw to contrast this idea, I've read it already. Based on my experience of managing several moderate sized, high volume mailing lists for the past several years, many people think the same way I do. --Shawn -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com Wed Sep 3 10:51:13 2003 From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D44FF54@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html has a discussion on this subject, and a search of groups.google shows that many other mailing lists have had this same discussion but since we are a dangerous-life-on-the-edge group and since some of us use mailers like outlook (since we read this from work) that don't have "Group-Reply" buttons, we end up sending two copies of the message to the original poster which means they might respond to the non-list version, and the list loses out i would rather reply to the list when i reply to list (get it) if i want to reply directly to perlperson@you.org i'll just figure it out on my own, since we can all program at least a little bit, i think we can figure that out, and if we accidentally reploy to the list, so what Aaron F Young Broker Reconciliation Operations & Portfolio Finance Citadel Investment Group LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: Shawn C Carroll [mailto:shawn@owbn.org] > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:12 AM > To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list > > > > I'm liable to kick off a shit storm here, but.... > > Who made the choice to remove the Reply-To: header when we moved to > mail.pm.org? I believe that most people believe that when you are > replying to a message from a list, the reply goes back to the > list. As it > is set up now, it takes thought to reply to the list, in that > one has to > reply-all, etc. > > Before Randall brings out his old saw to contrast this idea, > I've read it > already. Based on my experience of managing several moderate > sized, high > volume mailing lists for the past several years, many people think the > same way I do. > > --Shawn > > -- > Shawn Carroll > shawn@owbn.org > Perl Programmer > Soccer Referee > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312-395-2100 and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We cannot give any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept and block all communications involving its computer systems. From jt at plainblack.com Wed Sep 3 10:05:54 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list In-Reply-To: <3399.144.208.64.122.1062601922.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: Agreed. Replies should go back to the list and not to the original author. On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:12:02 -0500 (CDT) "Shawn C Carroll" wrote: > >I'm liable to kick off a shit storm here, but.... > >Who made the choice to remove the Reply-To: header when we moved to >mail.pm.org? I believe that most people believe that when you are >replying to a message from a list, the reply goes back to the list. As it >is set up now, it takes thought to reply to the list, in that one has to >reply-all, etc. > >Before Randall brings out his old saw to contrast this idea, I've read it >already. Based on my experience of managing several moderate sized, high >volume mailing lists for the past several years, many people think the >same way I do. > >--Shawn > >-- >Shawn Carroll >shawn@owbn.org >Perl Programmer >Soccer Referee >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From esinclai at rcn.com Wed Sep 3 11:02:01 2003 From: esinclai at rcn.com (Eric Sinclair) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list Message-ID: Personally, I prefer reply-to-individual, not to list. And, for the record, my instance of Outlook (at work, which is not actually where I receive this list) includes a "Reply to All" button. -Eric ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:51:13 -0500 >From: "Young, Aaron" >Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list >To: > >http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > >has a discussion on this subject, and a search of groups.google shows >that many other mailing lists have had this same discussion > >but since we are a dangerous-life-on-the-edge group > >and since some of us use mailers like outlook (since we read this from >work) that don't have "Group-Reply" buttons, we end up sending two >copies of the message to the original poster which means they might >respond to the non-list version, and the list loses out > >i would rather reply to the list when i reply to list > >(get it) > >if i want to reply directly to perlperson@you.org > >i'll just figure it out on my own, since we can all program at least a >little bit, i think we can figure that out, and if we accidentally >reploy to the list, so what > > >Aaron F Young >Broker Reconciliation >Operations & Portfolio Finance >Citadel Investment Group LLC > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Shawn C Carroll [mailto:shawn@owbn.org] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:12 AM >> To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list >> >> >> >> I'm liable to kick off a shit storm here, but.... >> >> Who made the choice to remove the Reply-To: header when we moved to >> mail.pm.org? I believe that most people believe that when you are >> replying to a message from a list, the reply goes back to the >> list. As it >> is set up now, it takes thought to reply to the list, in that >> one has to >> reply-all, etc. >> >> Before Randall brings out his old saw to contrast this idea, >> I've read it >> already. Based on my experience of managing several moderate >> sized, high >> volume mailing lists for the past several years, many people think the >> same way I do. >> >> --Shawn >> >> -- >> Shawn Carroll >> shawn@owbn.org >> Perl Programmer >> Soccer Referee >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> >------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ >------------------------- > >CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE > >This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and >proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). >Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the >information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us >immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312- 395-2100 >and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately >without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We cannot give >any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses >and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept >and block all communications involving its computer systems. > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com Wed Sep 3 11:17:59 2003 From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D05274430@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com> but doesn't reploy to all mean that someone gets two copies? Aaron F Young Broker Reconciliation Operations & Portfolio Finance Citadel Investment Group LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Sinclair [mailto:esinclai@rcn.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 11:02 AM > To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list > > > Personally, I prefer reply-to-individual, not to list. > > And, for the record, my instance of Outlook (at work, which > is not actually where I receive this list) includes a "Reply > to All" button. > > -Eric > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:51:13 -0500 > >From: "Young, Aaron" > >Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list > >To: > > > >http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > > > >has a discussion on this subject, and a search of > groups.google shows > >that many other mailing lists have had this same discussion > > > >but since we are a dangerous-life-on-the-edge group > > > >and since some of us use mailers like outlook (since we read > this from > >work) that don't have "Group-Reply" buttons, we end up > sending two > >copies of the message to the original poster which means > they might > >respond to the non-list version, and the list loses out > > > >i would rather reply to the list when i reply to list > > > >(get it) > > > >if i want to reply directly to perlperson@you.org > > > >i'll just figure it out on my own, since we can all program > at least a > >little bit, i think we can figure that out, and if we > accidentally > >reploy to the list, so what > > > > > >Aaron F Young > >Broker Reconciliation > >Operations & Portfolio Finance > >Citadel Investment Group LLC > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Shawn C Carroll [mailto:shawn@owbn.org] > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:12 AM > >> To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list > >> > >> > >> > >> I'm liable to kick off a shit storm here, but.... > >> > >> Who made the choice to remove the Reply-To: header when we > moved to > >> mail.pm.org? I believe that most people believe that when > you are > >> replying to a message from a list, the reply goes back to > the > >> list. As it > >> is set up now, it takes thought to reply to the list, in > that > >> one has to > >> reply-all, etc. > >> > >> Before Randall brings out his old saw to contrast this > idea, > >> I've read it > >> already. Based on my experience of managing several > moderate > >> sized, high > >> volume mailing lists for the past several years, many > people think the > >> same way I do. > >> > >> --Shawn > >> > >> -- > >> Shawn Carroll > >> shawn@owbn.org > >> Perl Programmer > >> Soccer Referee > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chicago-talk mailing list > >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > >> > >------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------ > >------------------------- > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE > > > >This e-mail contains information that may be confidential > and > >proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the > intended recipient(s). > >Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights > they may have in the > >information. If you are not an intended recipient, please > notify us > >immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312- > 395-2100 > >and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) > immediately > >without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We > cannot give > >any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free > of viruses > >and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to > monitor, intercept > >and block all communications involving its computer systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > -- > esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai > http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312-395-2100 and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We cannot give any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept and block all communications involving its computer systems. From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 3 11:06:30 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Problem with mail list In-Reply-To: <3399.144.208.64.122.1062601922.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> References: <3399.144.208.64.122.1062601922.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: At 10:12 AM -0500 9/3/03, Shawn C Carroll wrote: >I'm liable to kick off a shit storm here, but.... > >Who made the choice to remove the Reply-To: header when we moved to >mail.pm.org? I believe that most people believe that when you are Wasn't a choice. It's the way mailman is configged outta the box, and I didn't change it. Mailman's got about a dozen screens of config options. I've changed it back to Reply-To:s going to the list. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From ehs at pobox.com Wed Sep 3 22:04:46 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] ora review titles Message-ID: <20030904030446.GB22876@ink.inkdroid.org> More O'Reilly titles available for review. //Ed -- "Windows XP Unwired" provides a complete introduction to all the wireless technologies supported by Windows XP, including Wi-Fi (802.11b, a, and g), infrared, Bluetooth, CDMA2000, and GPRS. This book is a one-stop wireless information source for technically savvy Windows XP users. It will show you the full-spectrum view of Windows XP's wireless capabilities, how to take advantage of them, and the limitations and liabilities of each wireless technology. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/winxpunwired/ ***Regular Expression Pocket Reference Order Number: 415X "Regular Expression Pocket Reference" is a comprehensive guide to regular expression APIs for C, Perl, PHP, Java, .NET, Python, vi, and the POSIX regular expression libraries. This handy book offers newbie and advanced programmers a complete overview of the syntax and semantics of regular expressions, which are at the heart of every text-processing application. When you've reached a sticking point and need to get to a solution quickly, this pocket reference is the book you'll want to have. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/regexppr/ ***Kerberos: The Definitive Guide Order Number: 4036 By integrating Kerberos into Active Directory in Windows 2000 and 2003, Microsoft has extended the reach of Kerberos to all networks large or small. This book shows you how to implement Kerberos on Windows and Unix systems for secure authentication. In addition to covering the basic principles behind cryptographic authentication, the book covers everything from basic installation to advanced topics such as cross-realm authentication and defending against attacks on Kerberos. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/kerberos/ ***eBay Hacks Order Number: 5644 Whether you're a newcomer or a longtime user, "eBay Hacks" will teach you how to maximize your success within this community. The book features hacks written for buyers, sellers, developers, and all users. 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Never has it been easier to find what you need to know about Linux web servers. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxwebcdbs2/?CMP=NLC-A24W70458523 From ehs at pobox.com Thu Sep 4 09:21:41 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone Message-ID: <20030904142141.GA25259@ink.inkdroid.org> If anyone has spare screen real-estate for an irc window, I was thinking we could establish a presence on irc.perl.org in #chicago.pm. Not that the list volume is so overwhelming that we need the space, but I just thought it could be interesting. //Ed From esinclai at rcn.com Thu Sep 4 09:54:40 2003 From: esinclai at rcn.com (Eric Sinclair) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone Message-ID: I'd be down with that - though I believe . is not a legitimate channelname character in IRC.... May I suggest chicago_pm? Or chi_pm? -Eric ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:21:41 -0500 >From: Ed Summers >Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone >To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >If anyone has spare screen real-estate for an irc window, I was thinking we >could establish a presence on irc.perl.org in #chicago.pm. > >Not that the list volume is so overwhelming that we need the space, but I just >thought it could be interesting. > >//Ed >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ From ehs at pobox.com Thu Sep 4 10:02:57 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030904150257.GB25259@ink.inkdroid.org> On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 09:54:40AM -0500, Eric Sinclair wrote: > I'd be down with that - though I believe . is not a > legitimate channelname character in IRC.... May I suggest > chicago_pm? Or chi_pm? Check it, here's a list of current channels on irc.perl.org :) Channel Users Topic #thep 1 #stem 1 #chicago.pm 1 #london.class 2 #ogbuji 1 #phydeaux 2 #axit 1 #blue42hut 1 #ele 1 #phalanx 1 #yapc:eu 1 #imager 4 #cook 1 #p5p 18 #geeklist 11 #ISIS 14 #bricolage 6 #oscon 2 #xims 14 #core 4 #munj 4 #holdit 5 #cabal 7 #axkit-dahut 17 #cph.pm 25 #modperl 13 #bm2003 3 #southflorida 13 #ponie 18 #rt 10 #siesta 12 #bps 3 #cpan 5 #proxy 2 #poot 9 #axkit 7 #ny.pm 1 #yapi 2 #digitalgunfire 1 #search 3 #pie 1 #hates-software 5 #zage 2 #abg 2 #tent 2 #bblug 14 #dabox 5 #theproject 6 #xp 1 #jane 5 #reason 4 #cgi 1 #openframe 3 #igloo 2 #spug 3 #spamassassin 1 #food 2 #python 1 #lisp 1 #p2p-hackers 1 #c 1 #cphtest 1 #foo 1 #lmrefugee 1 #pistachio 1 #spam 1 #_Fud 1 #MIDI 4 #news 11 #tempura 3 #cp 3 #perl-help 4 #parrot 34 Hardware sucks! It sucks, I tell you! #memepool 8 #perl 150 hee...a godzilla movie with finnish subtitles oddly, the finnish looks about the same as the japanese sounds #poe 42 Pants OFF Everyone - http://poe.perl.org/ || NOW with a SHINY new LOOK! //Ed From esinclai at rcn.com Thu Sep 4 10:06:59 2003 From: esinclai at rcn.com (Eric Sinclair) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone Message-ID: Well, shiver me timbers. -Eric, loves being corrected when wrong ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:02:57 -0500 >From: Ed Summers >Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone >To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > >On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 09:54:40AM -0500, Eric Sinclair wrote: >> I'd be down with that - though I believe . is not a >> legitimate channelname character in IRC.... May I suggest >> chicago_pm? Or chi_pm? > >Check it, here's a list of current channels on irc.perl.org :) > Channel Users Topic > #thep 1 > #stem 1 > #chicago.pm 1 > #london.class 2 > #ogbuji 1 > #phydeaux 2 > #axit 1 > #blue42hut 1 > #ele 1 > #phalanx 1 > #yapc:eu 1 > #imager 4 > #cook 1 > #p5p 18 > #geeklist 11 > #ISIS 14 > #bricolage 6 > #oscon 2 > #xims 14 > #core 4 > #munj 4 > #holdit 5 > #cabal 7 > #axkit-dahut 17 > #cph.pm 25 > #modperl 13 > #bm2003 3 > #southflorida 13 > #ponie 18 > #rt 10 > #siesta 12 > #bps 3 > #cpan 5 > #proxy 2 > #poot 9 > #axkit 7 > #ny.pm 1 > #yapi 2 > #digitalgunfire 1 > #search 3 > #pie 1 > #hates-software 5 > #zage 2 > #abg 2 > #tent 2 > #bblug 14 > #dabox 5 > #theproject 6 > #xp 1 > #jane 5 > #reason 4 > #cgi 1 > #openframe 3 > #igloo 2 > #spug 3 > #spamassassin 1 > #food 2 > #python 1 > #lisp 1 > #p2p-hackers 1 > #c 1 > #cphtest 1 > #foo 1 > #lmrefugee 1 > #pistachio 1 > #spam 1 > #_Fud 1 > #MIDI 4 > #news 11 > #tempura 3 > #cp 3 > #perl-help 4 > #parrot 34 Hardware sucks! It sucks, I tell you! > #memepool 8 > #perl 150 hee...a godzilla movie with finnish subtitles > oddly, the finnish looks about the same as the japanese sounds > #poe 42 Pants OFF Everyone - http://poe.perl.org/ || NOW with >a SHINY new LOOK! > >//Ed >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ From pbaker at where2getit.com Thu Sep 4 15:56:17 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone In-Reply-To: <20030904142141.GA25259@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <3A4D8B3D-DF1A-11D7-80F5-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 09:21 AM, Ed Summers wrote: > If anyone has spare screen real-estate for an irc window, I was > thinking we > could establish a presence on irc.perl.org in #chicago.pm. > > Not that the list volume is so overwhelming that we need the space, > but I just > thought it could be interesting. I'm there now, but where are you? -- Paul Baker "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From andy at petdance.com Thu Sep 4 19:50:10 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] irc anyone In-Reply-To: <20030904150257.GB25259@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030904150257.GB25259@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: chicago.pm is a fine channel name, just like london.pm. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From me at heyjay.com Fri Sep 5 09:50:37 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl Message-ID: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> I'm using Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize) to turn my program into a daemon. sometimes I start this program from the command line, some times via cron. I'd like to have a log file that contains everything that would normally go to STDERR plus all the messages my program spits out. I'm running into a couple of problems: 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file handle? I tried $|++; For example: use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); print LOG "Help\n"; while (1) { } my message never gets printed to the file. 2) how would I redirect all of STDERR so that my messages appear in the proper order? for example: #!/usr/bin/perl open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); open (STDERR, ">>&LOG"); $|++; print LOG "yep\n"; die "you jerk"; :~/bin> cat test.log you jerk at /home/jstrauss/bin/jay line 16. yep *** notice the messages above are in the reverse order that they occured in the program. Lastly, is there some error logging module I should be using? Jay From ehs at pobox.com Fri Sep 5 10:27:41 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> References: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <20030905152741.GA5370@ink.inkdroid.org> On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 09:50:37AM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file handle? I > tried $|++; For example: > > use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); > daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); > open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); > print LOG "Help\n"; > while (1) { > } > > my message never gets printed to the file. Remember $| only works for the currently selected output filehandle. So you will have to select your LOG filehandle then set $|. open( LOG, ">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); select( LOG ); $| = 1; select( STDOUT ); I like using IO::File for this sort of thing myself, since it looks prettier (IMHO). use IO::File; my $log = File::Handle->new(); $log->open( ">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log" ); $log->autoflush( 1 ); print $log "blah"; You can mix and match too: use IO::File; open( LOG, ">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); LOG->autoflush( 1 ); print LOG "blah"; > 2) how would I redirect all of STDERR so that my messages appear in the > proper order? for example: > #!/usr/bin/perl > open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); > open (STDERR, ">>&LOG"); > $|++; > print LOG "yep\n"; > die "you jerk"; > > :~/bin> cat test.log > you jerk at /home/jstrauss/bin/jay line 16. > yep Not sure about this one. //Ed -- Ed Summers aim: inkdroid web: http://www.inkdroid.org The deeper I go the darker it gets. [Peter Gabriel] From RJardine at allstate.com Fri Sep 5 11:03:00 2003 From: RJardine at allstate.com (Jardine, Richard) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl Message-ID: <5752F1B589D2044280E4A83D390989A172C8CE@a0001-xpo0114-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com> I have never used Net::Server::Daemonize. I call a subroutine to turn the process into a daemon and redirect the output to a log. This has been running without problems in a production program for a couple of years. sub daemonize { my $log = '/var/tmp/log/allutilServer.log'; chdir '/' or die "Can't chdir to /: $!"; open STDIN, '/dev/null' or die "Can't read /dev/null: $!"; open STDOUT, ">>$log" or die "Can't write to $log: $!"; open STDERR, ">>$log" or die "Can't write to $log: $!"; defined(my $pid = fork) or die "Can't Fork: $!"; exit if $pid; setsid or die "Can't start a new session: $!"; umask 0; } -----Original Message----- From: Jay Strauss [mailto:me@heyjay.com] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 9:51 AM To: chicago-pm Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl I'm using Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize) to turn my program into a daemon. sometimes I start this program from the command line, some times via cron. I'd like to have a log file that contains everything that would normally go to STDERR plus all the messages my program spits out. I'm running into a couple of problems: 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file handle? I tried $|++; For example: use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); print LOG "Help\n"; while (1) { } my message never gets printed to the file. 2) how would I redirect all of STDERR so that my messages appear in the proper order? for example: #!/usr/bin/perl open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); open (STDERR, ">>&LOG"); $|++; print LOG "yep\n"; die "you jerk"; :~/bin> cat test.log you jerk at /home/jstrauss/bin/jay line 16. yep *** notice the messages above are in the reverse order that they occured in the program. Lastly, is there some error logging module I should be using? Jay _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From pbaker at where2getit.com Fri Sep 5 14:53:28 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <9E920CBE-DFDA-11D7-8D8E-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Friday, September 5, 2003, at 09:50 AM, Jay Strauss wrote: > I'd like to have a log file that contains everything that would > normally go > to STDERR plus all the messages my program spits out. > > I'm running into a couple of problems: > > 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file > handle? I > tried $|++; For example: > > use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); > daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); > open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); > print LOG "Help\n"; > while (1) { > } > > my message never gets printed to the file. > > [snip] The other replies are total overkill for what you are trying to do. Jay, from what I can tell you just want everything that would normally go to STDERR to be written to a log, instead of being lost in oblivion right? Real simple. Your code above is very close, just replace LOG with STDERR. This will reopen the file as STDERR and everything that normally writes to STDERR will go to that file instead. Piece of cake. use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); open (STDERR,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); print STDERR "Help\n"; while (1) { die "this will go to STDERR too!"; } -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From ehs at pobox.com Fri Sep 5 15:02:04 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <9E920CBE-DFDA-11D7-8D8E-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> References: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> <9E920CBE-DFDA-11D7-8D8E-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> Message-ID: <20030905200204.GA6236@ink.inkdroid.org> On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 02:53:28PM -0500, Paul Baker wrote: > use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); > daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); > open (STDERR,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); > print STDERR "Help\n"; > while (1) { > die "this will go to STDERR too!"; > } Interesting, I didn't know that unlike STDOUT and other filehandles STDERR is set to autoflush by default. Definitely simpler. //Ed From shild at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 6 11:11:41 2003 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] hack books (amazon & tivo) In-Reply-To: <20030902202657.GC16003@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: Just testing.. On 02-Sep-2003 Ed Summers wrote: > O'Reilly really (really) wants to get reviews for their Amazon Hacks [1] and > Tivo Hacks [2]. These are short books and should be pretty easy to review for > an interested pm'er. > > The books are in the mail so email me if you are interested. > > //Ed > > [1] http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/amazonhks/ > [2] http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/tivohks/ > > > > -- > Ed Summers > aim: inkdroid > web: http://www.inkdroid.org > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Scott T. Hildreth Date: 06-Sep-2003 Time: 11:11:17 ---------------------------------- From me at heyjay.com Sat Sep 6 15:51:20 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: <9E920CBE-DFDA-11D7-8D8E-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> Message-ID: <003701c374b8$a13b5310$6405a8c0@a30> thanks Paul, I think that will work, I've been away from my computer for the last day. I'm going to try it tonight after I finish painting the baby's room Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Baker" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl On Friday, September 5, 2003, at 09:50 AM, Jay Strauss wrote: > I'd like to have a log file that contains everything that would > normally go > to STDERR plus all the messages my program spits out. > > I'm running into a couple of problems: > > 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file > handle? I > tried $|++; For example: > > use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); > daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); > open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); > print LOG "Help\n"; > while (1) { > } > > my message never gets printed to the file. > > [snip] The other replies are total overkill for what you are trying to do. Jay, from what I can tell you just want everything that would normally go to STDERR to be written to a log, instead of being lost in oblivion right? Real simple. Your code above is very close, just replace LOG with STDERR. This will reopen the file as STDERR and everything that normally writes to STDERR will go to that file instead. Piece of cake. use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); open (STDERR,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); print STDERR "Help\n"; while (1) { die "this will go to STDERR too!"; } -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From jason at multiply.org Sun Sep 7 11:44:20 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] WWW:Mechanize Proxy server? In-Reply-To: <20030905200204.GA6236@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <87314708-E152-11D7-8A11-00039394FC90@multiply.org> Hi All. I remember reading an article a while ago about using a special perl program to act as a proxy server for a web session that will then generate or help you generate WWW:Mechanize code for that session. Needless to say, no bookmark, no remember. :) Does that ring a bell with anyone? Did I make that up? -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org From andy at petdance.com Sun Sep 7 12:02:58 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] WWW:Mechanize Proxy server? In-Reply-To: <87314708-E152-11D7-8A11-00039394FC90@multiply.org> References: <87314708-E152-11D7-8A11-00039394FC90@multiply.org> Message-ID: >Hi All. > >I remember reading an article a while ago about using a special perl >program to act as a proxy server for a web session that will then >generate or help you generate WWW:Mechanize code for that session. > >Needless to say, no bookmark, no remember. :) It's HTTP::Recorder, I think. It's by Linda Lee Julien. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From merlyn at stonehenge.com Sun Sep 7 12:46:35 2003 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] WWW:Mechanize Proxy server? In-Reply-To: <87314708-E152-11D7-8A11-00039394FC90@multiply.org> References: <87314708-E152-11D7-8A11-00039394FC90@multiply.org> Message-ID: <86iso4trt2.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "jason" == jason gessner writes: jason> Hi All. jason> I remember reading an article a while ago about using a special perl jason> program to act as a proxy server for a web session that will then jason> generate or help you generate WWW:Mechanize code for that session. WWW::Mechanize::Shell. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From me at heyjay.com Sun Sep 7 12:59:47 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: <9E920CBE-DFDA-11D7-8D8E-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> Message-ID: <00da01c3756a$3b3a1030$6405a8c0@a30> Ok, sorry for the delay, I got a chance to try changing STDERR. Seems to work, the only problem is Net::Server::Daemonize closes all the STD filehandles and points them a /dev/null. How do I point STDOUT at the screen after it's been pointed at /dev/null? Thanks Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Baker" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl On Friday, September 5, 2003, at 09:50 AM, Jay Strauss wrote: > I'd like to have a log file that contains everything that would > normally go > to STDERR plus all the messages my program spits out. > > I'm running into a couple of problems: > > 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file > handle? I > tried $|++; For example: > > use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); > daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); > open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); > print LOG "Help\n"; > while (1) { > } > > my message never gets printed to the file. > > [snip] The other replies are total overkill for what you are trying to do. Jay, from what I can tell you just want everything that would normally go to STDERR to be written to a log, instead of being lost in oblivion right? Real simple. Your code above is very close, just replace LOG with STDERR. This will reopen the file as STDERR and everything that normally writes to STDERR will go to that file instead. Piece of cake. use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); open (STDERR,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); print STDERR "Help\n"; while (1) { die "this will go to STDERR too!"; } -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From andy at petdance.com Sun Sep 7 16:17:35 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] WWW:Mechanize Proxy server? In-Reply-To: <86iso4trt2.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <87314708-E152-11D7-8A11-00039394FC90@multiply.org> <86iso4trt2.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: >jason> Hi All. >jason> I remember reading an article a while ago about using a special perl >jason> program to act as a proxy server for a web session that will then >jason> generate or help you generate WWW:Mechanize code for that session. > >WWW::Mechanize::Shell. Shell is handy, yes, but HTTP::Recorder actually generates Mech scripts for you. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 8 07:17:08 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Resetting STDOUT or STDERR Message-ID: <004701c37604$1b62ea80$6405a8c0@a30> Hi, Net::Server::Daemonize points STDERR and STDOUT at /dev/null, how can do I point them back at the screen? Thanks Jay From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 8 07:21:26 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: <5752F1B589D2044280E4A83D390989A172C8CE@a0001-xpo0114-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com> Message-ID: <004801c37604$1b8dcb10$6405a8c0@a30> Thanks Richard, I sorta like the Net::Server::Daemonize because: 1) it's already written :) 2) it writes the pid of the child to a file, so that you can kill it later I don't like that it points STDOUT and STDERR to /dev/null, seems like I should be able to tell it where to point those (maybe it does, I'll have to re-read the doc) Thanks Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jardine, Richard" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl I have never used Net::Server::Daemonize. I call a subroutine to turn the process into a daemon and redirect the output to a log. This has been running without problems in a production program for a couple of years. sub daemonize { my $log = '/var/tmp/log/allutilServer.log'; chdir '/' or die "Can't chdir to /: $!"; open STDIN, '/dev/null' or die "Can't read /dev/null: $!"; open STDOUT, ">>$log" or die "Can't write to $log: $!"; open STDERR, ">>$log" or die "Can't write to $log: $!"; defined(my $pid = fork) or die "Can't Fork: $!"; exit if $pid; setsid or die "Can't start a new session: $!"; umask 0; } -----Original Message----- From: Jay Strauss [mailto:me@heyjay.com] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 9:51 AM To: chicago-pm Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl I'm using Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize) to turn my program into a daemon. sometimes I start this program from the command line, some times via cron. I'd like to have a log file that contains everything that would normally go to STDERR plus all the messages my program spits out. I'm running into a couple of problems: 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file handle? I tried $|++; For example: use Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize); daemonize ("jstrauss","jstrauss","/home/jstrauss/test.pid"); open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); print LOG "Help\n"; while (1) { } my message never gets printed to the file. 2) how would I redirect all of STDERR so that my messages appear in the proper order? for example: #!/usr/bin/perl open (LOG,">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log"); open (STDERR, ">>&LOG"); $|++; print LOG "yep\n"; die "you jerk"; :~/bin> cat test.log you jerk at /home/jstrauss/bin/jay line 16. yep *** notice the messages above are in the reverse order that they occured in the program. Lastly, is there some error logging module I should be using? Jay _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 8 07:24:07 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> <20030905152741.GA5370@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <004901c37604$1bb6fdf0$6405a8c0@a30> > Remember $| only works for the currently selected output filehandle. So you > will have to select your LOG filehandle then set $|. To remember, requires I knew it at some point :) > I like using IO::File for this sort of thing myself, since it looks > prettier (IMHO). > > use IO::File; > my $log = File::Handle->new(); > $log->open( ">/home/jstrauss/bin/test.log" ); > $log->autoflush( 1 ); > print $log "blah"; I'd say definitely a matter of opinion, but probably more self documenting. Thanks Jay From pbaker at where2getit.com Mon Sep 8 12:55:34 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <00da01c3756a$3b3a1030$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: On Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 12:59 PM, Jay Strauss wrote: > Ok, sorry for the delay, I got a chance to try changing STDERR. > Seems to > work, the only problem is Net::Server::Daemonize closes all the STD > filehandles and points them a /dev/null. > > How do I point STDOUT at the screen after it's been pointed at > /dev/null? I'm not certain this will work, but you might try open /dev/stdout Having said that though, why are you trying to send something to STDOUT? Daemon's aren't supposed to do that, that's why they close them. And you are already writting your debugging to a log via STDERR, so what do you need STDOUT for? -- Paul Baker "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 8 13:36:12 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) Message-ID: <20030908183612.GB27565@ink.inkdroid.org> Well, it turns out I may not be able to make chicago-pm meetings for the next 6 months or so. My wife is going back to school and has classes on Monday (and I get to look after the new baby). ...unless there is a possibility of moving the meeting day to Tues...is that greedy of me? //Ed From shawn at owbn.org Mon Sep 8 13:23:55 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030908183612.GB27565@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030908183612.GB27565@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <4095.144.208.64.122.1063045435.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Oh goodness. :0 Tuesday is bad for me as my wife also is going back to school and her classes are on Tuesday (and I get to look after the not-so-new baby) --Shawn Ed Summers said: > Well, it turns out I may not be able to make chicago-pm meetings for the > next 6 > months or so. My wife is going back to school and has classes on Monday > (and I > get to look after the new baby). > > ...unless there is a possibility of moving the meeting day to Tues...is > that > greedy of me? > > //Ed > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 8 13:47:30 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <4095.144.208.64.122.1063045435.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> References: <20030908183612.GB27565@ink.inkdroid.org> <4095.144.208.64.122.1063045435.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 01:23:55PM -0500, Shawn C Carroll wrote: > Tuesday is bad for me as my wife also is going back to school and her > classes are on Tuesday (and I get to look after the not-so-new baby) Crikey. As we inch closer to Friday I imagine the back room at Coogans becomes less and less available. Wednesday? Is Stephen on the new list yet? //Ed From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:04:03 2003 From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? References: <20030908183612.GB27565@ink.inkdroid.org><4095.144.208.64.122.1063045435.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: Hi All, Anyone have any opinions of the Computer Science Masters Programs offered in the loop for 9-5'ers? I know of Northwestern, DePaul, and IIT. Any others? Anyone go through these programs? Thanks, Chris From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 8 14:37:05 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? In-Reply-To: References: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <20030908193705.GC28169@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 02:04:03PM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > Anyone have any opinions of the Computer Science Masters Programs offered in > the loop for 9-5'ers? I know of Northwestern, DePaul, and IIT. Any others? > Anyone go through these programs? I heard that Univ of Chicago has a 1 year Masters in Computer Science program on NPR this morning. Don't know anything about it though... //Ed From frag at ripco.net Mon Sep 8 14:38:30 2003 From: frag at ripco.net (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Ed Summers wrote: > Crikey. As we inch closer to Friday I imagine the back room at Coogans becomes > less and less available. Yeah, probably. We can ask the bartender. Which reminds me; last month the bartender at Coogan's gave notice that he wouldn't be able/willing to turn down the stereo in the back room anymore. It might depend on crowd capacity - he was implying that business was picking up on Mondays, and I believe that the problem is that you can't turn down the volume in the room without turning down the volume for the entire back area. -- Mike F. From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 8 14:47:55 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <20030908194755.GD28169@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 02:38:30PM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > Which reminds me; last month the bartender at Coogan's gave notice that he > wouldn't be able/willing to turn down the stereo in the back room anymore. > It might depend on crowd capacity - he was implying that business was > picking up on Mondays, and I believe that the problem is that you can't > turn down the volume in the room without turning down the volume for the > entire back area. It really would be ideal to move to somewhere where talking is easier, and then going to a bar afterwards. But we don't have anywhere right? I've been meaning to check at Chicago Public Library to see if they have any rooms we can use...maybe I'll do that now. //Ed From pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu Mon Sep 8 16:54:44 2003 From: pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Patrick Fleury) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? In-Reply-To: <20030908193705.GC28169@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030908144655.00ae4600@128.135.32.3> At 02:37 PM 9/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 02:04:03PM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > Anyone have any opinions of the Computer Science Masters Programs > offered in > > the loop for 9-5'ers? I know of Northwestern, DePaul, and IIT. Any > others? > > Anyone go through these programs? > >I heard that Univ of Chicago has a 1 year Masters in Computer Science >program on >NPR this morning. Don't know anything about it though... > >//Ed >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk I don't think the U of C Masters Program could be completed in a year by someone with a 9 to 5 job unless you come in with a _lot_ of knowledge. I think there is a lot of work involved. On the other hand, I have sat in on some of the courses and I think the teachers are, on the whole, very good. You can find out about it at http://masters.cs.uchicago.edu/. --PatF PS: It's not quite in the Loop either. From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 8 15:03:32 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As much as I'd like to have Ed there, I'm afraid that a move away from Mondays is going to just displace other people. Coming up with a consensus on stuff like this is damn near impossible. Plus, what about next semester when her class is on Tuesday? :-) xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 8 15:14:10 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030908201410.GA28505@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:03:32PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > As much as I'd like to have Ed there, I'm afraid that a move away > from Mondays is going to just displace other people. Coming up with > a consensus on stuff like this is damn near impossible. Finding consensus amongst the 10 people who go isn't always that hard. > Plus, what about next semester when her class is on Tuesday? :-) Point taken. I just figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Have fun trying to talk over the music :) //Ed From mcavoy76 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 8 15:15:41 2003 From: mcavoy76 at hotmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? References: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20030908144655.00ae4600@128.135.32.3> Message-ID: > I don't think the U of C Masters Program could be completed in a year by > someone with a 9 to 5 job unless you come in with a _lot_ of knowledge. According to the FAQ, it's 9 classes, so if you do three per quarter...you're at about a year. Of course, three per quarter is a rough schedule. All the classes are built for a 9-5'er. Of course, the commute from the loop to Hyde Park makes it rough. All admissions considerations aside, I like the way U of C sets their schedule up, and the way they emphasize an immersion prereq quarter. But Depaul a) doesn't have a GRE requirement, and b) is in the loop. I think it takes 2-3 years though. Anyway, here's an FAQ from UofC: http://masters.cs.uchicago.edu/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&my faq=yes&id_cat=1&categories=Prospective+Students&parent_id=0#15 I'm pretty impressed with their program, just can't see the commute for a year or more. Here's Depaul: http://www.cs.depaul.edu/programs/2004/gradCS2004.asp Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Fleury" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? > At 02:37 PM 9/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 02:04:03PM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > > Anyone have any opinions of the Computer Science Masters Programs > > offered in > > > the loop for 9-5'ers? I know of Northwestern, DePaul, and IIT. Any > > others? > > > Anyone go through these programs? > > > >I heard that Univ of Chicago has a 1 year Masters in Computer Science > >program on > >NPR this morning. Don't know anything about it though... > > > >//Ed > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > I don't think the U of C Masters Program could be completed in a year by > someone with a 9 to 5 job unless you come in with a _lot_ of knowledge. I > think there is a lot of work involved. > > On the other hand, I have sat in on some of the courses and I think the > teachers are, on the whole, very good. > > You can find out about it at http://masters.cs.uchicago.edu/. > > --PatF > PS: It's not quite in the Loop either. > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From frag at ripco.com Mon Sep 8 15:44:02 2003 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030908201410.GA28505@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Ed Summers wrote: > On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:03:32PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > As much as I'd like to have Ed there, I'm afraid that a move away > > from Mondays is going to just displace other people. Coming up with > > a consensus on stuff like this is damn near impossible. > > Finding consensus amongst the 10 people who go isn't always that hard. But each month, it's a different 10 people. -- Mike F. From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 8 15:45:38 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: <20030908201410.GA28505@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:44:02PM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > But each month, it's a different 10 people. Yeah, forget I asked. I can live without the meetings for two years. //Ed From jt at plainblack.com Mon Sep 8 15:07:55 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: I'm new to the list, and plan on coming to the meetings as often as humanly possible. In another group I belong to a poll is placed on the web site and everyone gets to vote for the date for each month's meetings. That way we can be flexible and get the most people possible each month. Would that be possible for this group? It seems like Ed is one of the most active people on this list, and the meetings wouldn't be as interesting without him. Then again, I'm just a newbie, so feel free to tell me to STFU. On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:45:38 -0500 Ed Summers wrote: >On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:44:02PM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: >> But each month, it's a different 10 people. > >Yeah, forget I asked. I can live without the meetings for two years. > >//Ed >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From jhubble at core.com Mon Sep 8 21:18:38 2003 From: jhubble at core.com (Jeremy Hubble) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? Message-ID: <200309090218.h892IdNv088488@mail0.mx.voyager.net> I completed the UofC program in one year, while working full time in Arlington Heights. This was back in 98-99, when the program had only recently started, so things may have changed since then. UofC technically requires a GRE; however, I was able to have that requirement waived when I applied. If you have a computer background, the UofC program only requires 9 quarters of classes. (Otherwise, it requires an extra three-quarter immersion.) It has a pretty set group of classes that make up the program; however, it is also quite liberal with allowing substitutions. (I substituted a law class for one of the courses) There has also been talk of offering courses downtown and on weekends. I am not sure where that has progressed. The program had a strong focus on the practical application (very un- UofC like)! Even though it is a night program, there are some advantages in getting to Hyde Park during the day. Jeremy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris McAvoy" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? > > I don't think the U of C Masters Program could be completed in a year by > > someone with a 9 to 5 job unless you come in with a _lot_ of knowledge. > > According to the FAQ, it's 9 classes, so if you do three per > quarter...you're at about a year. Of course, three per quarter is a rough > schedule. All the classes are built for a 9-5'er. Of course, the commute > from the loop to Hyde Park makes it rough. > > All admissions considerations aside, I like the way U of C sets their > schedule up, and the way they emphasize an immersion prereq quarter. But > Depaul a) doesn't have a GRE requirement, and b) is in the loop. I think it > takes 2-3 years though. > > Anyway, here's an FAQ from UofC: > > http://masters.cs.uchicago.edu/modules.php? op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&my > faq=yes&id_cat=1&categories=Prospective+Students&parent_id=0#15 > > I'm pretty impressed with their program, just can't see the commute for a > year or more. > > Here's Depaul: > > http://www.cs.depaul.edu/programs/2004/gradCS2004.asp > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Fleury" > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:54 PM > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] OT: Grad School in Loop? > > > > At 02:37 PM 9/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 02:04:03PM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > > > Anyone have any opinions of the Computer Science Masters Programs > > > offered in > > > > the loop for 9-5'ers? I know of Northwestern, DePaul, and IIT. Any > > > others? > > > > Anyone go through these programs? > > > > > >I heard that Univ of Chicago has a 1 year Masters in Computer Science > > >program on > > >NPR this morning. Don't know anything about it though... > > > > > >//Ed > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Chicago-talk mailing list > > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > I don't think the U of C Masters Program could be completed in a year by > > someone with a 9 to 5 job unless you come in with a _lot_ of knowledge. > I > > think there is a lot of work involved. > > > > On the other hand, I have sat in on some of the courses and I think the > > teachers are, on the whole, very good. > > > > You can find out about it at http://masters.cs.uchicago.edu/. > > > > --PatF > > PS: It's not quite in the Loop either. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 8 22:41:31 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: Message-ID: <008201c37684$470079c0$6405a8c0@a30> > Having said that though, why are you trying to send something to > STDOUT? Daemon's aren't supposed to do that, that's why they close > them. And you are already writting your debugging to a log via STDERR, > so what do you need STDOUT for? I thought I'd print the startup messages to the screen and then redirect the runtime messages to a file Jay From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 9 09:22:10 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] meeting and coogan In-Reply-To: <20030908194755.GD28169@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> <20030908194755.GD28169@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <20030909142210.GA32496@ink.inkdroid.org> Rats, CPL has rooms but they cost $350 per night. The guy I spoke with did say Columbia College might have something available however. Haven't had any success with them just yet. I will stay active in chicago-pm even if I can't attend the meetings regularly. So no worries about losing a member. In other news SparkeyG and I setup coogan, an infobot[1] to live in the chicago.pm irc room (#chicago.pm on irc.perl.org). Log in and feed coogan factoids about chicagoland perl :) //Ed [1] http://www.infobot.org/ From frag at ripco.com Tue Sep 9 09:52:10 2003 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Ed Summers wrote: > On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:44:02PM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > > But each month, it's a different 10 people. > > Yeah, forget I asked. I can live without the meetings for two years. Now, let's not be hasty. I've got no problems with moving except for bumping out anyone who can't make it Tuesdays. This suggests: Wednesdays; or alternating Monday/Tuesday each month; or switching to Tuesdays at some point but not just now. Is there any reason why weekend afternoons have never been up for consideration? Besides the beer factor? Finding venues should be much easier. Oh, and I can't do Thursdays. -- Mike F. From frag at ripco.com Tue Sep 9 10:00:43 2003 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, JT Smith wrote: > I'm new to the list, and plan on coming to the meetings as often as > humanly possible. In another group I belong to a poll is placed on the > web site and everyone gets to vote for the date for each month's > meetings. That way we can be flexible and get the most people possible > each month. Would that be possible for this group? I don't know. Like I mentioned to Ed, each meeting a different set of people show up, and I think some of them aren't on the mailing list. Moving the meeting from month to month might lose some people. Then again, that might not be such a big deal. Anyone else have any opinions about this? > It seems like Ed is one of the most active people on this list, and the > meetings wouldn't be as interesting without him. Then again, I'm just a > newbie, so feel free to tell me to STFU. No SUing necessary; welcome aboard. -- Mike F. From pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu Tue Sep 9 12:07:45 2003 From: pfleury at medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Patrick Fleury) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030909095831.00b06610@128.135.32.3> At 09:52 AM 9/9/2003 -0500, Mike F. wrote: >Now, let's not be hasty. I've got no problems with moving except for >bumping out anyone who can't make it Tuesdays. This suggests: >Wednesdays; or alternating Monday/Tuesday each month; or switching to >Tuesdays at some point but not just now. > >Is there any reason why weekend afternoons have never been up for >consideration? Besides the beer factor? Finding venues should be much >easier. > >Oh, and I can't do Thursdays. > >-- Mike F. >______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk I can come practically any evening of the week. I can probably also find a way to sneak off somewhere on weekends. The northern Illinois Linux group used to meet - when it was meeting - in a microbrewery somewhere around Napierville. I remember it as being (a) very nice and (b) having better chow than coogan's. It has the disadvantage of being away from the loop. On the other hand, we might be able to get more bodies from west of the city if we have it outside the loop and the parking will definitely be cheaper. (The last time, I paid $16.00 for about two hours. Even for such scintillating company as the Perl group, this is high.) --PatF From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 9 10:30:03 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <20030909153003.GC32496@ink.inkdroid.org> On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 09:52:10AM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > Now, let's not be hasty. I've got no problems with moving except for > bumping out anyone who can't make it Tuesdays. This suggests: > Wednesdays; or alternating Monday/Tuesday each month; or switching to > Tuesdays at some point but not just now. Alas, Kesa (wife) has class Wednesdays too... > Is there any reason why weekend afternoons have never been up for > consideration? Besides the beer factor? Finding venues should be much > easier. You know, the weekend is not a bad idea at all. Did you have any particular venue in mind? There is no reason why we can't have social and tech meetings. I've spoken with Richard Jardine offline about potential space at Allstate in the Western Suburbs. Perhaps we could have occasional tech meetings there? Richard (if you are out there) was that offer for real :) //Ed From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Tue Sep 9 11:05:42 2003 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <20030909160542.GB16649@utility.jamundsen.dyndns.org> Hi all! I'm also new to the list, but I thought I'd weigh in with my opinion... First of all I will be making an effort to attend on whatever day is chosen, but I'd suggest that we consider some type of rotation. Nothing to complicated, maybe an alternating day every other month. Secondly as far as location, we could also rotate this, but if so I'd suggest that we keep a location in the loop as one meeting place. And we should definitely make sure there is food and drink wherever we meet! :) Regards, On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:07:55PM -0500, JT Smith wrote: > I'm new to the list, and plan on coming to the meetings as often as humanly > possible. In another group I belong to a poll is placed on the web site and > everyone gets to vote for the date for each month's meetings. That way we > can be flexible and get the most people possible each month. Would that be > possible for this group? > > It seems like Ed is one of the most active people on this list, and the > meetings wouldn't be as interesting without him. Then again, I'm just a > newbie, so feel free to tell me to STFU. > > > On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:45:38 -0500 > Ed Summers wrote: > >On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:44:02PM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > >>But each month, it's a different 10 people. > > > >Yeah, forget I asked. I can live without the meetings for two years. > > > >//Ed > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > JT ~ Plain Black > > Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20030909/66605a61/attachment.bin From frag at ripco.com Tue Sep 9 11:13:09 2003 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030909153003.GC32496@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Ed Summers wrote: > On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 09:52:10AM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > Alas, Kesa (wife) has class Wednesdays too... Is the Monday/Wednesday schedule really fixed for the next 2 years? > > Is there any reason why weekend afternoons have never been up for > > consideration? Besides the beer factor? Finding venues should be much > > easier. > You know, the weekend is not a bad idea at all. Did you have any > particular venue in mind? There is no reason why we can't have social > and tech meetings. Nothing in particular, although LinuxFest at CoD did come to mind. But everything should be easier to obtain during daylight: rooms in libraries. Restaurants, bars -- assuming Coogan's doesn't just close up all weekend, it should be viable on a Saturday afternoon. Hey, with a set of long extension cords we could gather at shelters in a forest preserve. > I've spoken with Richard Jardine offline about potential space at > Allstate in the Western Suburbs. Perhaps we could have occasional tech > meetings there? Where exactly is that? -- Mike F. From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 9 12:23:08 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <008201c37684$470079c0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <47B0B0CD-E2EA-11D7-9FFE-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Monday, September 8, 2003, at 10:41 PM, Jay Strauss wrote: >> Having said that though, why are you trying to send something to >> STDOUT? Daemon's aren't supposed to do that, that's why they close >> them. And you are already writting your debugging to a log via STDERR, >> so what do you need STDOUT for? > > I thought I'd print the startup messages to the screen and then > redirect the > runtime messages to a file Ah, well in that case, all your startup messages should occur before you daemonize. Meaning, any start up initialization stuff should occur before you go into the daemon (and any output should probably go to the REAL STDERR and not STDOUT). Then once you have done all your init, the last step before you start your process loop would be to then of course daemonize and then reopen STDERR to the logfile. -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From RJardine at allstate.com Tue Sep 9 12:44:56 2003 From: RJardine at allstate.com (Jardine, Richard) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) Message-ID: <5752F1B589D2044280E4A83D390989A172C8E1@a0001-xpo0114-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com> Allstate is in Northbrook IL, big white buildings near on I-94 at Willow. If there is enough interest I can check on getting a room, I don't think it would be a problem. -----Original Message----- From: Ed Summers [mailto:ehs@pobox.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 10:30 AM To: Chicago.pm chatter Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 09:52:10AM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > Now, let's not be hasty. I've got no problems with moving except for > bumping out anyone who can't make it Tuesdays. This suggests: > Wednesdays; or alternating Monday/Tuesday each month; or switching to > Tuesdays at some point but not just now. Alas, Kesa (wife) has class Wednesdays too... > Is there any reason why weekend afternoons have never been up for > consideration? Besides the beer factor? Finding venues should be much > easier. You know, the weekend is not a bad idea at all. Did you have any particular venue in mind? There is no reason why we can't have social and tech meetings. I've spoken with Richard Jardine offline about potential space at Allstate in the Western Suburbs. Perhaps we could have occasional tech meetings there? Richard (if you are out there) was that offer for real :) //Ed _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 9 15:21:28 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3134A09B-E303-11D7-9FFE-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 11:13 AM, Mike Fragassi wrote: > Hey, with a set of long > extension cords we could gather at shelters in a forest preserve. If we are contemplating a change of venue, we should find one within range of a WAP so we can get on the Internet. There is a lot more interesting presentations that could be made with a live Internet connection. -- Paul Baker "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 9 15:32:31 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <5752F1B589D2044280E4A83D390989A172C8E1@a0001-xpo0114-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 12:44 PM, Jardine, Richard wrote: > Allstate is in Northbrook IL, big white buildings near on I-94 at > Willow. If there is enough interest I can check on getting a room, I > don't think it would be a problem. That would be sweet for me since I work just down willow road in Wheeling, but I'm sure that would suck for everyone in the city. Would there be wireless internet? -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 9 16:02:44 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <3134A09B-E303-11D7-9FFE-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 03:21 PM, Paul Baker wrote: > > If we are contemplating a change of venue, we should find one within > range of a WAP so we can get on the Internet. There is a lot more > interesting presentations that could be made with a live Internet > connection. Which reminds me, Goose Island on Clyborn has wireless internet throughout. And good food and of course...lots of Goose Island mmmmmmmm... -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From frag at ripco.com Tue Sep 9 17:13:52 2003 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Paul Baker wrote: > Which reminds me, Goose Island on Clyborn has wireless internet > throughout. And good food and of course...lots of Goose Island > mmmmmmmm... When contemplating new venues, the two fundamental questions have been: 1) Have they got a side room where we can turn the music off, that they'd let us take over on slow nights and/or weekend afternoons without charge? 2) How far is it from Metra and El stations? Though #2 should be much less of an issue if we're talking about weekends; people could either drive, or it'd be easier for volunteers to get to a train station early and give people a ride to the venue. Wireless is a nice perk, but not as important as these two. -- Mike F. From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 9 17:34:27 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 05:13 PM, Mike Fragassi wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Paul Baker wrote: > >> Which reminds me, Goose Island on Clyborn has wireless internet >> throughout. And good food and of course...lots of Goose Island >> mmmmmmmm... > > When contemplating new venues, the two fundamental questions have been: > > 1) Have they got a side room where we can turn the music off, that > they'd > let us take over on slow nights and/or weekend afternoons without > charge? Probably not likely, but I was thinking of it more for the "social" type meeting if we took Ed's (I think it was Ed's) suggestion to have two meetings a month, one tech orientated (with nice quiet room good for doing tech presentations) and one social orientated (at a bar with good food and beer). > 2) How far is it from Metra and El stations? Just a couple blocks north on clybourn from the north/clybourn redline stop. > Wireless is a nice perk, but not as important as these two. Depends on who you ask. :-) -- Paul Baker "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From me at heyjay.com Tue Sep 9 21:41:24 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: <47B0B0CD-E2EA-11D7-9FFE-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> Message-ID: <008801c37745$080b4170$6405a8c0@a30> Yeah, I am using POE and WWW::Mech, and before I was getting an error trying to serialize the mech object and pick it up with the poe clients (before I forked), but I'm not doing that anymore (had problems serializing a https connection), so I could probably do everything first. I'll try it Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Baker" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl On Monday, September 8, 2003, at 10:41 PM, Jay Strauss wrote: >> Having said that though, why are you trying to send something to >> STDOUT? Daemon's aren't supposed to do that, that's why they close >> them. And you are already writting your debugging to a log via STDERR, >> so what do you need STDOUT for? > > I thought I'd print the startup messages to the screen and then > redirect the > runtime messages to a file Ah, well in that case, all your startup messages should occur before you daemonize. Meaning, any start up initialization stuff should occur before you go into the daemon (and any output should probably go to the REAL STDERR and not STDOUT). Then once you have done all your init, the last step before you start your process loop would be to then of course daemonize and then reopen STDERR to the logfile. -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From me at heyjay.com Tue Sep 9 22:01:13 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Randal Message-ID: <00b701c37747$d1819660$6405a8c0@a30> I'm not sure if you guys are still getting messages from the old list, but I know Randal is. Maybe he should be auto-sub'ed to the new list? Jay From andy at petdance.com Tue Sep 9 22:03:07 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Randal In-Reply-To: <00b701c37747$d1819660$6405a8c0@a30> References: <00b701c37747$d1819660$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: >I'm not sure if you guys are still getting messages from the old list, but I >know Randal is. Maybe he should be auto-sub'ed to the new list? > done already days ago. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From frag at ripco.com Thu Sep 11 01:24:12 2003 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the list (or me personally, if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) with your predelicitions concerning these questions: 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better meeting times for you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a structured talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month even if the atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building instead of a bar, no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in a bar, with anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the latter, or would the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? "No opinion"/"don't care either way" are valid answers. -- Mike F. Your Cruise Director. From me at heyjay.com Thu Sep 11 07:26:09 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll References: Message-ID: <001901c3785f$e9cf2980$6405a8c0@a30> I vote to continue the same format. No weekends. City location. Good food, served late. What was wrong with Goose Island? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fragassi" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:24 AM Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll > > OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the list (or me personally, > if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) with your predelicitions > concerning these questions: > > 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better meeting times for > you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? > > 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a structured > talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month even if the > atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building instead of a bar, > no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? > I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? > > 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we > bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the > semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in a bar, with > anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the latter, or would > the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? > > "No opinion"/"don't care either way" are valid answers. > > -- Mike F. > Your Cruise Director. > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Thu Sep 11 07:35:42 2003 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030911123542.GA61636@utility.jamundsen.dyndns.org> 1. I'll work my schedule around a once a month weekend meeting. 2/3. I think both elements have value and would even consider 2 meetings a month, but probably not 2 weekend meetings... 1 on the weekend and 1 during the week would be best. On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 01:24:12AM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > > OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the list (or me personally, > if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) with your predelicitions > concerning these questions: > > 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better meeting times for > you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? > > 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a structured > talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month even if the > atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building instead of a bar, > no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? > I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? > > 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we > bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the > semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in a bar, with > anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the latter, or would > the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? > > "No opinion"/"don't care either way" are valid answers. > > -- Mike F. > Your Cruise Director. > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20030911/98089bb6/attachment.bin From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 07:51:56 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> References: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <1990010000.1063284716@[192.168.200.4]> --On Friday, September 05, 2003 09:50:37 -0500 Jay Strauss wrote: > I'm using Net::Server::Daemonize qw(daemonize) to turn my program into a > daemon. > > sometimes I start this program from the command line, some times via cron. > I'd like to have a log file that contains everything that would normally > go to STDERR plus all the messages my program spits out. > > I'm running into a couple of problems: > > 1) how do I get stuff into my log file without closing the file handle? I > tried $|++; For example: unless( -t ) { use Basename; my $base = (fileparse $0, '\..*')[0]; open STDOUT, '>', "$logdir/$base.out"; open STDERR, '>', "$logdir/$base.err"; select STDERR; $| = 1; select STDOUT; } -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 07:53:31 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (lembark@jeeves.wrkhors.com) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030908183612.GB27565@ink.inkdroid.org> <4095.144.208.64.122.1063045435.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> <20030908184730.GA28169@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <1993480000.1063284811@[192.168.200.4]> --On Monday, September 08, 2003 13:47:30 -0500 Ed Summers wrote: > On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 01:23:55PM -0500, Shawn C Carroll wrote: >> Tuesday is bad for me as my wife also is going back to school and her >> classes are on Tuesday (and I get to look after the not-so-new baby) > > Crikey. As we inch closer to Friday I imagine the back room at Coogans > becomes less and less available. Wednesday? Is Stephen on the new list > yet? As of now Coogan's is the only free room we can find in/near the loop. Mondays are the only day we can get the room at Coogan's. Third monday is the only day we could ever find that didn't have a local nerd meeting on/before/after it in this area. From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 07:56:44 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1997850000.1063285004@[192.168.200.4]> --On Monday, September 08, 2003 15:07:55 -0500 JT Smith wrote: > I'm new to the list, and plan on coming to the meetings as often as > humanly possible. In another group I belong to a poll is placed on the > web site and everyone gets to vote for the date for each month's > meetings. That way we can be flexible and get the most people possible > each month. Would that be possible for this group? The very few times we have changed the meeting date or time or location even with 3+ weeks notice we lost half the people who showed up at the regular location or didn't show up becuase they weren't sure where to go. 3rd Monday's have been the most reliable solution so far. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 07:58:25 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <20030909160542.GB16649@utility.jamundsen.dyndns.org> References: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> <20030909160542.GB16649@utility.jamundsen.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1999870000.1063285105@[192.168.200.4]> > Secondly as far as location, we could also rotate this, but if so I'd > suggest that we keep a location in the loop as one meeting place. And we > should definitely make sure there is food and drink wherever we meet! :) What about people who are not on -- or don't check -- the list? Coogan's is the only location we have been able to find that is free. If anyone knows of a useful second location please warn me. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 07:59:35 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2001760000.1063285175@[192.168.200.4]> > Is there any reason why weekend afternoons have never been up for > consideration? Besides the beer factor? Finding venues should be much > easier. Because most people have too many things to get done on the weekends and we end up having to schedule around everything else from the taste to football games. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 08:00:33 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2003840000.1063285233@[192.168.200.4]> > Which reminds me, Goose Island on Clyborn has wireless internet > throughout. And good food and of course...lots of Goose Island mmmmmmmm... How far is it from the Metra? L? -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 08:02:46 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] next meeting (mon => tues?) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20030909095831.00b06610@128.135.32.3> References: <20030908204538.GC28572@ink.inkdroid.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20030909095831.00b06610@128.135.32.3> Message-ID: <2007010000.1063285366@[192.168.200.4]> > On the other hand, we might be able to get more bodies from west of the > city if we have it outside the loop and the parking will definitely be > cheaper. (The last time, I paid $16.00 for about two hours. Even for > such scintillating company as the Perl group, this is high.) Problem is that there is no suburb you can get to from the other suburbs. I, for example, and Mike F. work in Deerfield. Pick one other place everyone can get to that we can make it to... Hence, the loop. Parking on the street in front of Coogan's is free and usually available. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 08:04:23 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2008720000.1063285463@[192.168.200.4]> --On Thursday, September 11, 2003 01:24:12 -0500 Mike Fragassi wrote: > > OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the list (or me personally, > if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) with your predelicitions > concerning these questions: > > 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better meeting times for > you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? I will probably never show up for a weekend meeting. > 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a structured > talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month even if the > atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building instead of a bar, > no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? > I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? Depends heavily on where it is. If people prefer talks in a more formal atmosphere then the Perl SIG at COD is also available. > 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we > bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the > semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in a bar, with > anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the latter, or would > the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? Unlikely. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 08:05:48 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <004801c37604$1b8dcb10$6405a8c0@a30> References: <5752F1B589D2044280E4A83D390989A172C8CE@a0001-xpo0114-s.hodc.ad.a llstate.com> <004801c37604$1b8dcb10$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <2012850000.1063285548@[192.168.200.4]> --On Monday, September 08, 2003 07:21:26 -0500 Jay Strauss wrote: > Thanks Richard, > > I sorta like the Net::Server::Daemonize because: > 1) it's already written :) > 2) it writes the pid of the child to a file, so that you can kill it later > > I don't like that it points STDOUT and STDERR to /dev/null, seems like I > should be able to tell it where to point those (maybe it does, I'll have > to re-read the doc) open STDOUT, .... -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From andy at petdance.com Thu Sep 11 08:35:33 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better meeting times for >you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? Weekend afternoons would remove me entirely. >2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a structured >talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month even if the >atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building instead of a bar, >no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? >I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? Coogan's is an anti-atmosphere as far as I'm concerned. The music, the smoke, etc all make for a suboptimal place. >3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we >bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the >semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in a bar, with >anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the latter, or would >the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? I would have no interest in the social ones. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jt at plainblack.com Thu Sep 11 08:02:15 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:24:12 -0500 (CDT) Mike Fragassi wrote: > >OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the list (or me personally, >if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) with your predelicitions >concerning these questions: > >1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better meeting times for >you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? Probably better for me, though I should be able to rearrange my schedule regardless of when it is, as long as it's not during the day in the middle of the week. >2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a structured >talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month even if the >atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building instead of a bar, >no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? >I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? I don't drink, but the social atmosphere is certainly nice. Perhaps we could find a restaurant with a back room, that way we could still have the drinks, and we wouldn't have to worry about the music. If nothing else, since it's after hours, couldn't we bring pizza and beer to the office building? >3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we >bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the >semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in a bar, with >anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the latter, or would >the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? I'd prefer a mix of the two rather than having two. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From jason at multiply.org Thu Sep 11 08:18:08 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll Message-ID: <1063286288.3503c6904d6f1@www.multiply.org> 1) neutral on weekends 2) formal setting (office) is not too bad. Also, we can bring beer if we really need it. :) 3) 2 meetings a month might be a bit much for me. Maybe if we did a social meeting every couple of months that would work. -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com Thu Sep 11 10:57:40 2003 From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0527460D@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com> if the meeting times switched up a bit, that would be more convenient, monday isn't my favorite day to do things Aaron F Young Broker Reconciliation Operations & Portfolio Finance Citadel Investment Group LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Fragassi [mailto:frag@ripco.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:24 AM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll > > > > OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the list (or me > personally, > if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) with your > predelicitions > concerning these questions: > > 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better > meeting times for > you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? > > 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a > structured > talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month > even if the > atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building > instead of a bar, > no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? > I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? > > 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we > bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the > semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in > a bar, with > anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the > latter, or would > the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? > > "No opinion"/"don't care either way" are valid answers. > > -- Mike F. > Your Cruise Director. > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the information. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify us immediately either by reply e-mail or by telephone at 312-395-2100 and delete this e-mail (including any attachments hereto) immediately without reading, disseminating, distributing or copying. We cannot give any assurances that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses and other harmful code. Citadel reserves the right to monitor, intercept and block all communications involving its computer systems. From shawn at owbn.org Thu Sep 11 10:45:25 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0527460D@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com> References: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D0527460D@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com> Message-ID: <2976.144.208.64.122.1063295125.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Fragassi [mailto:frag@ripco.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:24 AM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll > > > > OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the list (or me > personally, > if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) with your > predelicitions > concerning these questions: > > 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better > meeting times for > you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? > Worse. > 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a > structured talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month > even if the atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building > instead of a bar, no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or > donuts), etc.? I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? > Coogans is good for me. > 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we > bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the > semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in > a bar, with > anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the > latter, or would > the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? > I like the social/technical mix we have now. > "No opinion"/"don't care either way" are valid answers. > > -- Mike F. > Your Cruise Director. -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From ehs at pobox.com Thu Sep 11 11:13:57 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030911161357.GB11199@ink.inkdroid.org> On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 01:24:12AM -0500, Mike Fragassi wrote: > 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or better meeting times for > you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? Better, I can't make Mondays. > 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone giving a structured > talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once a month even if the > atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office building instead of a bar, > no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or donuts), etc.? > I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? Beer is not necessary for me. I would be happy to go to a formal mtg at a nicely networked place, and then go for a drink afterwards with the likeminded. > 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? That is, if we > bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for "tech" (i.e., the > semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for "social" (in a bar, with > anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in the latter, or would > the former do it for you for the month? Or vice versa? I would be up for social meetings but I think two meetings per month is too much. Perhaps they could alternate as needed. Monday at Coogans the regular social meeting, and occasional tech meetings at Allstate or somewhere similar. I guess I would like to see chicago.pm doing more technical meetings rather than relying on UniForum ... Perl is not specific to Unix afterall. //Ed From walter at torres.ws Thu Sep 11 18:41:55 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... Message-ID: I have a (potential) client that has asked a question, which I thought I knew the answer, but am second guessing myself. So I thought I'd ask this august body for their view. I am creating a log post-processor for him he needs to munge some fields so a report generator can understand the log file. It seems it would be easier to create a munger than fix the reporter. Anyway, these log files are upwards of 300MB per day, and I will be processing as many as 20 a night. It seems some brainiac has put the bug in his ear that... "The suggestion was made that really large log files could be parsed faster and with less of a hit to the processor and ram usage if they were split into smaller, more manageable chunks beforehand and then reassembled as they were being cleaned." My question to you lot, does this hold any water? My prototype on this does streaming processing. Open the log file, open a temp file, loop down the log file, munge each line in turn and drop it to the temp file, close both at end. I figured this would be the best method for large files. I take it he is talking to other coders and they are thinking of loading the files into RAM and munging them there. I'm going to be running some prelim tests this evening on 300MB files (I'll dummy up) and suck up and spit out on my 600mHz machine and see how it goes. I'll also tackle 10 30mb files and compare the times on that. I really don't see how processing smaller files would save any IO/processor time/cycles. Besides, something has to split the files into "smaller, more manageable chunks" Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Walter From pbaker at where2getit.com Thu Sep 11 19:18:00 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: <001901c3785f$e9cf2980$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <915C740A-E4B6-11D7-ACDD-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 07:26 AM, Jay Strauss wrote: > I vote to continue the same format. No weekends. City location. Good > food, served late. What was wrong with Goose Island? Yeah in the end, I'm probably fine with it staying the way it is, but it's hard to have very serious technical presentations at coogans given the noise and lack of internet connection. That doesn't necessarily mean that any other place is better. I guess somebody should stop by Goose Island on a Monday night and see if it's too crowded/noisy/smokey etc. -- Paul Baker "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From andy at petdance.com Thu Sep 11 19:54:56 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Open the log file, open a temp file, loop down the log file, munge each line >in turn and drop it to the temp file, close both at end. before you go writing this code, please take a look at the -i command line option. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From pbaker at where2getit.com Thu Sep 11 19:54:52 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 06:41 PM, Walter Torres wrote: > I take it he is talking to other coders and they are thinking of > loading the > files into RAM and munging them there. Unless the munging you are doing on each line is some how affected by the preceding lines, there will be no speed up. I can't think of any reason you would be doing this, and you would know if you were. If you were, your code would be backtracking and re-reading lines to get some other values to include in the current output. I assume you aren't doing anything like this? If you were, it would obviously be quicker to store all the data in RAM and then do searches against RAM, then to be constantly searching against the data on disk. I highly doubt you are doing something like this. So, if your processing cares only about each line individually, then their approach of reading all the data into RAM first before doing the processing will most likely slow things down. Not only does my own experience coincide with this, but just look at other unix utilities out there. Take gzip for instance. It goes very fast and does not read all of a file into RAM before it starts to compress it. If reading everything into RAM would speed it up, don't you think somebody out there would have written a version that did that by now? Basically what they are trying to do duplicate the buffering that Perl and your operating system's filesystem cache already do. But instead of using smaller more efficient buffers, they want to create a huge slow one. There will be a cost associated with allocating all of that RAM. And you will essentially be creating a buffer on top of another buffer that already exists. You will doing the same thing twice and as a result could end up taking twice as long... When your code does a read from the disk, the filesystem and perl will already read more of the data then you originally requested into memory (the input buffer). But it will return to your program only the data you asked for initially, so your processing step can do it's thing while the OS is still reading more data into memory. And once you go to output the result, it will initially be put into the output buffer and later written to disk when there is the best opportunity to do so. The next time your program asks for more data from the disk, it will be returned to you directly from the input buffer without having to go to disk. And when you get close to the end of the buffer, Perl will in the background go and fetch more data from the filesystem, while your code is doing it's processing, taking advantage of the multi-tasking properties of your operating system. By reading all the data into memory in one shot you are essentially negating all the good things that come with the already existing I/O buffers. You get none of the advantage that the OS and Perl developers years of effort have put into making these things fast as possible. To think that, "oh let's just read it all into RAM. that will make it faster." is almost insulting. So I guess what you can say to them is that, yes they are right in that reading small portions of the data into RAM at once is a good thing to do. But we don't need to do that ourselves because Perl is already doing that for us in the most optimal way possible. I hope that this made sense. -- Paul Baker "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Thu Sep 11 20:10:40 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Randal In-Reply-To: References: <00b701c37747$d1819660$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <2234120000.1063329040@[192.168.200.4]> --On Tuesday, September 09, 2003 22:03:07 -0500 Andy Lester wrote: >> I'm not sure if you guys are still getting messages from the old list, >> but I know Randal is. Maybe he should be auto-sub'ed to the new list? >> > > done already days ago. Merlyn can check out, but... -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From me at heyjay.com Thu Sep 11 21:40:45 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> <1990010000.1063284716@[192.168.200.4]> Message-ID: <000c01c378d7$45c07b50$6405a8c0@a30> Steve, Why do you do the -t test? And which file is it testing that it's opened to a tty? Jay > unless( -t ) > { > use Basename; > > my $base = (fileparse $0, '\..*')[0]; > open STDOUT, '>', "$logdir/$base.out"; > open STDERR, '>', "$logdir/$base.err"; > > select STDERR; > $| = 1; > > select STDOUT; > } > > > -- > Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer > Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 > +1 888 910 1206 > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From pbaker at where2getit.com Thu Sep 11 21:54:31 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <000c01c378d7$45c07b50$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <6F07D098-E4CC-11D7-ACDD-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 09:40 PM, Jay Strauss wrote: > Steve, > > Why do you do the -t test? And which file is it testing that it's > opened to > a tty? It's testing if the current process is running from a tty (meaning from an interactive console, and not from cron or an rc.d init script) -- Paul Baker "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From flateyjarbok at yahoo.com Thu Sep 11 22:00:06 2003 From: flateyjarbok at yahoo.com (Richard Solberg) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] straw poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030912030006.42309.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Fragassi wrote: > > OK, let's sample some opinion. Please email the > list (or me personally, > if you're shy -- though you needn't be, really!) > with your predelicitions > concerning these questions: > > 1) are weekend afternoons (once a month) worse or > better meeting times for > you than the current scheme of Monday evenings? I would like to keep it on a weekday evening of Monday thru Thursday. > > 2) would you come to perl presentations (ie, someone > giving a structured > talk, as we've been doing the last few months) once > a month even if the > atmosphere was more formal -- ie, in an office > building instead of a bar, > no beer, no food (unless someone brings chips or > donuts), etc.? > I.e., is the beer-factor *that* necessary? I would like to see alternating between downtown meetings and in an office building like Allstate at another location away from the loop, but still only once per month. Gives the people in the burbs a hopefully closer location. > > 3) are you at *all* interested in social meetings? > That is, if we > bothered to set up 2 meetings a month, one for > "tech" (i.e., the > semi-formal tutorial presentation), and one for > "social" (in a bar, with > anything goes) -- would you be at all interested in > the latter, or would > the former do it for you for the month? Or vice > versa? > More than once a month is too much for me, but alternating formats would be fine. > "No opinion"/"don't care either way" are valid > answers. > > -- Mike F. > Your Cruise Director. > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From me at heyjay.com Thu Sep 11 22:12:01 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl References: <6F07D098-E4CC-11D7-ACDD-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> Message-ID: <002901c378db$c0603f90$6405a8c0@a30> Ah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Baker" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl > > On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 09:40 PM, Jay Strauss wrote: > > > Steve, > > > > Why do you do the -t test? And which file is it testing that it's > > opened to > > a tty? > > It's testing if the current process is running from a tty (meaning from > an interactive console, and not from cron or an rc.d init script) > > -- > Paul Baker > > "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." > -- Philip K. Dick > > GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From walter at torres.ws Thu Sep 11 22:14:48 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Paul Baker > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 7:55 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... > Unless the munging you are doing on each line is some how affected by > the preceding lines, nope! > I hope that this made sense. Your discussion made a lot! of since. I think I'll quote you (several times!) in my reply to them. Thanks Paul! Walter From walter at torres.ws Thu Sep 11 22:15:10 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Andy Lester > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 7:55 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... > > > >Open the log file, open a temp file, loop down the log file, > munge each line > >in turn and drop it to the temp file, close both at end. > > before you go writing this code, please take a look at the -i command > line option. I will, thank you! walter From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Fri Sep 12 00:33:04 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] writing a log with Cron, Daemons, Perl In-Reply-To: <000c01c378d7$45c07b50$6405a8c0@a30> References: <001201c373bd$12fcdac0$6405a8c0@a30> <1990010000.1063284716@[192.168.200.4]> <000c01c378d7$45c07b50$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <2306280000.1063344784@[192.168.200.4]> --On Thursday, September 11, 2003 21:40:45 -0500 Jay Strauss wrote: > Steve, > > Why do you do the -t test? And which file is it testing that it's opened > to a tty? STDIN, if stdin is not a tty then you are running detached and need a logfile; else you are ona tty and want to display to the screen. > Jay >> unless( -t ) >> { >> use Basename; >> >> my $base = (fileparse $0, '\..*')[0]; >> open STDOUT, '>', "$logdir/$base.out"; >> open STDERR, '>', "$logdir/$base.err"; >> >> select STDERR; >> $| = 1; >> >> select STDOUT; >> } >> >> >> -- >> Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer >> Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 >> +1 888 910 1206 >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From magog at the-wire.com Fri Sep 12 04:34:37 2003 From: magog at the-wire.com (Michael Graham) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Toronto monger in town for next meeting Message-ID: <20030912051309.E10D.MAGOG@the-wire.com> Hey guys, I'm a member of Toronto PM and I saw the use.perl announcement regarding Jason's blogging talk on Monday. It happens that I'm going to be in Chicago this week, and I'm also in the middle of programming a Movable Type extension - so I'm quite looking forward to Jason's talk! See you there! Michael -- Michael Graham magog@the-wire.com - http://occamstoothbrush.com/perl/ From jason at multiply.org Fri Sep 12 09:27:13 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Toronto monger in town for next meeting In-Reply-To: <20030912051309.E10D.MAGOG@the-wire.com> References: <20030912051309.E10D.MAGOG@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1063376833.1d48c61229467@www.multiply.org> Hi All. I am wrapping up the code for my blogging talk and excited to hear that there is some level of interest from the group. I will have some handouts with the code, but the code will also be released on my website @ http://www.multiply.org/notebook/ in the next couple of days. Michael: We will be glad to entertain an international PM'er at the meeting! I would also like to hear about your MT extension. Any details? -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From magog at the-wire.com Sat Sep 13 04:23:50 2003 From: magog at the-wire.com (Michael Graham) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Toronto monger in town for next meeting In-Reply-To: <1063376833.1d48c61229467@www.multiply.org> References: <20030912051309.E10D.MAGOG@the-wire.com> <1063376833.1d48c61229467@www.multiply.org> Message-ID: <20030913051329.E122.MAGOG@the-wire.com> > Michael: We will be glad to entertain an international PM'er at the meeting! I > would also like to hear about your MT extension. Any details? It's a fairly simple program - it makes text-based digests of MT weblogs. Basically, it's a cgi-script (written using MT's Perl API) which pulls all the articles from a given date range and fills a MT-style template to make a plain text digest. I also made a few plugins for text formatting, such as paragraph wrapping, underlining and text-boxes. The motivation behind the project is to provide tools to help people get around government censorship of weblogs. Apparently, some governments are trying to restrict access to information by blocking the specific websites that host certain blogs. Hopefully this program will help blog authors to send out the content of their blogs to interested people via email. At the moment, the program is pretty limited - it just produces a single page of text that the author then has to manually paste into a mail client. Eventually, it would be fun to come up with methods of distribution that are resistent to government interference and detection. But in the meantime, a single-page of text is fairly easy to distribute. Preliminary code is at: http://occamstoothbrush/downloads/perl/MT-Digest/mt-digest-0.1.1.tgz See you Monday! Michael -- Michael Graham magog@the-wire.com - http://occamstoothbrush.com/perl/ From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Sat Sep 13 17:39:43 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <165660000.1063492783@[192.168.200.4]> --On Thursday, September 11, 2003 18:41:55 -0500 Walter Torres wrote: > I have a (potential) client that has asked a question, which I thought I > knew the answer, but am second guessing myself. So I thought I'd ask this > august body for their view. > > I am creating a log post-processor for him he needs to munge some fields > so a report generator can understand the log file. It seems it would be > easier to create a munger than fix the reporter. > > Anyway, these log files are upwards of 300MB per day, and I will be > processing as many as 20 a night. I've happily processed 10GB of data through perl at once -- on a system with 200GB of core mind you but it worked. Main issue will be how much load the system can handle and how you read it. For this much data you probably don't want to read in slurp mode, but many logfiles work nicely in paragraph or line mode. You can also read in fixed chunks via $/ = \4096 (pick your size) and manage things that way (code'll look a whole lot like C w/ regexes instead of string.h calls). > > It seems some brainiac has put the bug in his ear that... > > "The suggestion was made that really large log files could be > parsed faster and with less of a hit to the processor and ram > usage if they were split into smaller, more manageable chunks > beforehand and then reassembled as they were being cleaned." > > My question to you lot, does this hold any water? If the only way to read the data is in slurp mode then maybe, otherwise you still have to read the stuff to split it. Breadking up files that large for backup/recovery purposes may help (e.g., hourly logs might be easier to grep for items). Aside from that you have to read that much junk off the disk either way. Funny thing is that gzip --fast may actually help since the read cycle can use: open my $log, "gzip -dc $logfile.gz |" and save some disk I/O -- assuming the logs can be zipped during the day (say hourly rotation). The gzip works becuase unzippping in core takes less time than reading the data from disk for repetative things like logs. > > My prototype on this does streaming processing. Adjust the buffer to a reasonable size for the system and you have no reason to worry about the total file size -- just don't slurp it via: for( <$fh> ) or local $/; and you should be able to read any amount of data easily. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Sat Sep 13 17:40:58 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <167330000.1063492858@[192.168.200.4]> --On Thursday, September 11, 2003 19:54:56 -0500 Andy Lester wrote: >> Open the log file, open a temp file, loop down the log file, munge each >> line in turn and drop it to the temp file, close both at end. > > before you go writing this code, please take a look at the -i command > line option. How would this improve the performance (or are you suggesting this for code simplification only)? -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Sat Sep 13 17:42:57 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <169500000.1063492977@[192.168.200.4]> >> before you go writing this code, please take a look at the -i command >> line option. > > I will, thank you! Since logfiles tend to be internally delimeted (e.g., syslog) you might also save some code w/ perl -a. This gives you a #! like: perl -n -i~ -a (-i requires -n or -p last I looked). Nice thing about -a is that the input line is broken up on whitespace (or your delimeter of choice) internally, which can save a bit of overhead if you really do need to process the line positionally. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Sat Sep 13 19:26:51 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] One more Chicago PM list... Message-ID: <201110000.1063499211@[192.168.200.4]> chicago-jobs Obvious purpose. This would be a place to send resumes, list jobs (e.g., the recent one for Edison Scholastic), and ask any questions about skills. It would also allow placement folks to be on a low- traffic list. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From andy at petdance.com Sat Sep 13 21:19:53 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] views on a quandary... In-Reply-To: <167330000.1063492858@[192.168.200.4]> References: <167330000.1063492858@[192.168.200.4]> Message-ID: >>before you go writing this code, please take a look at the -i command >>line option. > >How would this improve the performance (or are you suggesting this for >code simplification only)? Code simplification only. No need to worry about all the filehandles. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From dha at panix.com Sat Sep 13 22:12:40 2003 From: dha at panix.com (David H. Adler) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] One more Chicago PM list... In-Reply-To: <201110000.1063499211@[192.168.200.4]> References: <201110000.1063499211@[192.168.200.4]> Message-ID: <20030914031240.GA15860@panix.com> On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 07:26:51PM -0500, Steven Lembark wrote: > > chicago-jobs > > Obvious purpose. This would be a place to send resumes, list jobs > (e.g., the recent one for Edison Scholastic), and ask any questions > about skills. It would also allow placement folks to be on a low- > traffic list. For what it's worth, ny.pm is talking about doing away with its jobs list, as most jobs wind up getting directed at jobs.perl.org. Just a data point. dha -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ I'd redesign my program to something less absurd. - Abigail, in comp.lang.perl.misc From jason at multiply.org Mon Sep 15 07:57:22 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Blogging Techniques talk tonight! Message-ID: <1063630642.e2ffccd2d4ebd@www.multiply.org> Hi All. I hope to see a bunch of you tonight at the Perl Blogging Techniques talk! I have finished up my code samples and handouts, which are available at http://www.multiply.org/notebook/ in the first post. I will put together a full talk page a little later. Unfortunately, I will not be down at my office this afternoon, so I am unable to make prints of the handouts. Anyone willing to volunteer? It will be 11 pages, but double sided b/w's would be fine. If no one can print them, I will run to Kinko's on my way in. Any takers? Thanks! See you tonight! -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From stathy.touloumis at edisonaffiliates.com Mon Sep 15 10:37:44 2003 From: stathy.touloumis at edisonaffiliates.com (Stathy G. Touloumis) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] [JOB] Perl/mod_perl application developer for educational services Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030915103742.0244a590@mail.edisonaffiliates.com> If anyone is interested : Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/311 To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. Posted: September 2, 2003 Job title: Perl/mod_perl application developer for educational services Company name: Edison Schools Location: United States, IL, Skokie Travel: 0% Terms of employment: Salaried employee Hours: Full time Onsite: yes Description: Edison is the nation's largest private manager of public schools. Over the course of three years of intensive research, Edison's team of leading educators and scholars developed an innovative curriculum and school design. The position will be responsible for assisting the Edison technology team in designing, implementing, deploying and maintaining web based applications which are in a distributed environment. This is an opportunity to work on building applications from the ground up as well as porting/refactoring existing code into the new architecture. Genuine interest in researching/learning new technologies is expected and encouraged. Required skills: 3+ yrs. Perl 1+ yrs. mod_perl Mason Template-Toolkit Apache DBI SQL, Postgres Basic Object Oriented methodology Desired skills: XML SQL, Oracle Advanced object oriented methodology Design Patterns (MVC) Data import, crunching and reporting Secondary language (C/C++, Java, Python, Ruby) Distributed computing BSCS/MSCS URL for more information: http://www.edisonschools.com/ Contact information: Human Resources Edison Schools 8808 N. Bronx Ave suite #206 Skokie, IL 60077 Send resume to : hr@edisonaffiliates.com From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 15 11:19:46 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Blogging Techniques talk tonight! In-Reply-To: <1063630642.e2ffccd2d4ebd@www.multiply.org> References: <1063630642.e2ffccd2d4ebd@www.multiply.org> Message-ID: >Unfortunately, I will not be down at my office this afternoon, so I >am unable to >make prints of the handouts. Anyone willing to volunteer? It will be 11 >pages, but double sided b/w's would be fine. If no one can print them, I will >run to Kinko's on my way in. I can print 'em out for ya. I'll also have books to give away, so everyone show up to put yer name in the hat. Who's bringin' a hat? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From frag at ripco.com Mon Sep 15 12:42:31 2003 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Blogging Techniques talk tonight! In-Reply-To: References: <1063630642.e2ffccd2d4ebd@www.multiply.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Andy Lester wrote: > I can print 'em out for ya. I'll also have books to give away, so > everyone show up to put yer name in the hat. > > Who's bringin' a hat? I'll have one, as always. But, alas, I forgot to grab the Monger hat. -- Mike F. From jason at multiply.org Mon Sep 15 12:55:18 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Perl Blogging Techniques talk tonight! In-Reply-To: References: <1063630642.e2ffccd2d4ebd@www.multiply.org> Message-ID: <1063648518.d6a844ce0f379@www.multiply.org> Thanks andy. I'll see everyone tonight! -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 15 17:01:31 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL, Chicago Message-ID: <20030915220130.GA7406@ink.inkdroid.org> Since chicago-jobs hasn't been set up yet... Apologies if you've already seen the advertisement. -- Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/968 To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. Posted: September 15, 2003 Job title: IT Software Engineer 3 Company name: Northwestern University Internal ID: 006482 Location: United States, IL, Chicago Pay rate: $49,575 - 55,773 (USD) Travel: 0% Terms of employment: Salaried employee Hours: Full time Onsite: yes Description: The responsibilities of this position in the Department of Medicine include: providing IT support, including, designing an developing database extensions and applications based on identified needs; designing and developing web-based interfaces to permit the retrieval and modification of database records in a user-specific secured environment; assisting with the necessary the maintenance of hardware and software systems supporting database and web development efforts; working with administrators, faculty, and IT staff to identify additional opportunities to apply database and web information systems; and other duties as assigned. The preferred qualifications include: bachelors degree in computer science or other information technology related area; or the equivalent combination of education, experience, and training from which comparable skills can be acquired; 2 to 4 years of related experience database and Web development using apache, mod_perl, perl, and SQL preferred; knowledge of Oracle, FreeBSD, Linux, and CVS a plus; ability to use judgement in interpreting and adapting policies and work directions; must have attention to details, excellent written and verbal communication skills; organizational, and interpersonal skills are essential to maintain a productive interactions with administrators and faculty at all levels. Contact information: Submit your resume via email to kloevy@nmh.org. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Ed Summers aim: inkdroid web: http://www.inkdroid.org Any fool can write code that a computer can understand. Good programmers write code that humans can understand. [Martin Fowler] From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 15 20:11:55 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL, Chicago References: <20030915220130.GA7406@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <001001c37bef$86d82be0$6405a8c0@a30> is it just me or does 55k (max) seem a bit opportunistic on northwestern's part of the it market ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Summers" To: Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:01 PM Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL,Chicago > Since chicago-jobs hasn't been set up yet... Apologies if you've already seen > the advertisement. > > -- > > Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/968 > > To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. > To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. > > Posted: September 15, 2003 > > Job title: IT Software Engineer 3 > > Company name: Northwestern University > > Internal ID: 006482 > > Location: United States, IL, Chicago > > Pay rate: $49,575 - 55,773 (USD) > > Travel: 0% > > Terms of employment: Salaried employee > > Hours: Full time > > Onsite: yes > > Description: > The responsibilities of this position in the Department of Medicine > include: providing IT support, including, designing an developing database > extensions and applications based on identified needs; designing and > developing web-based interfaces to permit the retrieval and modification of > database records in a user-specific secured environment; assisting with the > necessary the maintenance of hardware and software systems supporting > database and web development efforts; working with administrators, faculty, > and IT staff to identify additional opportunities to apply database and web > information systems; and other duties as assigned. The preferred > qualifications include: bachelors degree in computer science or other > information technology related area; or the equivalent combination of > education, experience, and training from which comparable skills can be > acquired; 2 to 4 years of related experience database and Web development > using apache, mod_perl, perl, and SQL preferred; knowledge of Oracle, > FreeBSD, Linux, and CVS a plus; ability to use judgement in interpreting > and adapting policies and work directions; must have attention to details, > excellent written and verbal communication skills; organizational, and > interpersonal skills are essential to maintain a productive interactions > with administrators and faculty at all levels. > > Contact information: > Submit your resume via email to kloevy@nmh.org. > > > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > Ed Summers > aim: inkdroid > web: http://www.inkdroid.org > > Any fool can write code that a computer can understand. Good programmers > write code that humans can understand. [Martin Fowler] > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 15 21:07:17 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL, Chicago In-Reply-To: <001001c37bef$86d82be0$6405a8c0@a30> References: <20030915220130.GA7406@ink.inkdroid.org> <001001c37bef$86d82be0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <20030916020716.GA8008@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:11:55PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > is it just me or does 55k (max) seem a bit opportunistic on northwestern's > part of the it market It's just you. //Ed From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 15 21:13:41 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL, Chicago References: <20030915220130.GA7406@ink.inkdroid.org><001001c37bef$86d82be0$6405a8c0@a30> <20030916020716.GA8008@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <003e01c37bf8$275e4060$6405a8c0@a30> really? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Summers" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL,Chicago > On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:11:55PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > > is it just me or does 55k (max) seem a bit opportunistic on northwestern's > > part of the it market > > It's just you. > > //Ed > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 15 21:56:09 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL, Chicago In-Reply-To: <003e01c37bf8$275e4060$6405a8c0@a30> References: <20030916020716.GA8008@ink.inkdroid.org> <003e01c37bf8$275e4060$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <20030916025608.GA8336@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:13:41PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > really? Yes, really :) From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 15 23:14:01 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL, Chicago References: <20030916020716.GA8008@ink.inkdroid.org><003e01c37bf8$275e4060$6405a8c0@a30> <20030916025608.GA8336@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <018701c37c09$60989c70$6405a8c0@a30> IT used to pay better (I suppose that's a big duh) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Summers" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL,Chicago > On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:13:41PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > > really? > > Yes, really :) > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From walter at torres.ws Tue Sep 16 02:14:39 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' In-Reply-To: <169500000.1063492977@[192.168.200.4]> Message-ID: I'm trying to figure out how to utilize '-n' best. I have a cmd line... myScript.pl file_1.txt file_2.txt -o result.out I want to cycle through all file[s] given by the cmd line (if it's a path, all the files in that dir, but that's for later) and spit the results (whatever it may be) into the file given via the '-o' parameter. My test script (see below) Is this the best way to accomplish this? Thanks for your help. Walter ================================================== #!/usr/local/bin/perl -n BEGIN { # place entire cmd line into single scalar $arg = join ' ', @ARGV; # split off the inbound file(s) and the result file ($arg, $outFile) = split '-o', $arg; # rebuilt the cmd line @ARGV = split ' ', $arg; # Open given tmp file open( TEMP, ">>$outFile") or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile\n"; } # loop begins here print TEMP "$ARGV: $.\n"; # clode the file when we are done with it close ARGV if eof; # eof From walter at torres.ws Tue Sep 16 02:18:28 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' - part 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a way to have this script *not* wait for user input if no cmd line file list is given. I'd like to just error out and given message to log file. That's all at the point. I've been looking for answer for most of the evening. Sorry to have to ask such a basic question. Thanks Walter From mike at oobak.org Tue Sep 16 04:53:37 2003 From: mike at oobak.org (Mike Pastore) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' In-Reply-To: ARRAY(0xa022844) References: ARRAY(0x9f51f78) Message-ID: <20030916095337.3DD733A388@www.fastmail.fm> Hi Walter, Certainly, you are close! But I might offer some suggestions. To answer your last email first, it is easy enough to check @ARGV in your BEGIN statement: BEGIN { die "usage: $0 -o ... \n" unless @ARGV > 2; ... Or perhaps check after you trim out your option. I might also recommend the -s switch in this case, as in the following: #!/usr/bin/perl -n -s BEGIN { die "usage: ... \n" unless @ARGV and defined $o; open(TEMP, ">>$o") or die "Unable to open '$o' for writing: $!\n"; } print TEMP; There is no need to close any filehandles. Your data is coming from STDIN. You may close TEMP in an END block if you wish, but it is unnecessary. Regarding style (and your future goal of letting the user specify a directory), consider letting user's shell do all the hard work. For example, $ perl -pe';' file1 file2 >> file3 $ perl -ne'print if /foo/' dir1/* > file3 Of course, it all depends on the program you're writing. This may not be a feasible solution to your problem. But I thought I'd mention it, because it might save you time! When writing little scripts like this I prefer to let UNIX do all the grunt work of listing directories and pushing data around, instead of opening file handles left and right. Also, if you use STDOUT and STDERR it gives the user freedom to act on the output as s/he sees fit. FWIW. -- Mike Pastore mike@oobak.org ----- Original message ----- From: "Walter Torres" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:14:39 -0500 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' I'm trying to figure out how to utilize '-n' best. I have a cmd line... myScript.pl file_1.txt file_2.txt -o result.out I want to cycle through all file[s] given by the cmd line (if it's a path, all the files in that dir, but that's for later) and spit the results (whatever it may be) into the file given via the '-o' parameter. My test script (see below) Is this the best way to accomplish this? Thanks for your help. Walter ================================================== #!/usr/local/bin/perl -n BEGIN { # place entire cmd line into single scalar $arg = join ' ', @ARGV; # split off the inbound file(s) and the result file ($arg, $outFile) = split '-o', $arg; # rebuilt the cmd line @ARGV = split ' ', $arg; # Open given tmp file open( TEMP, ">>$outFile") or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile\n"; } # loop begins here print TEMP "$ARGV: $.\n"; # clode the file when we are done with it close ARGV if eof; # eof _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 16 06:53:21 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] IT Software Engineer 3 (onsite), United States, IL, Chicago In-Reply-To: <018701c37c09$60989c70$6405a8c0@a30> References: <20030916025608.GA8336@ink.inkdroid.org> <018701c37c09$60989c70$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <20030916115321.GA10283@ink.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 11:14:01PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote: > IT used to pay better (I suppose that's a big duh) Very true, and jobs in education tend to pay less on the whole. They have other benefits though (tuition remission), which sometimes make up the difference. //Ed From me at heyjay.com Tue Sep 16 08:00:10 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' References: ARRAY(0x9f51f78) <20030916095337.3DD733A388@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <005501c37c53$02b19c70$6405a8c0@a30> what's the -o flag? I don't see it under perl -h Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pastore" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' > Hi Walter, > > Certainly, you are close! But I might offer some suggestions. To answer > your last email first, it is easy enough to check @ARGV in your BEGIN > statement: > > BEGIN > { > die "usage: $0 -o ... \n" > unless @ARGV > 2; > ... > > Or perhaps check after you trim out your option. I might also recommend > the -s switch in this case, as in the following: > > #!/usr/bin/perl -n -s > > BEGIN > { > die "usage: ... \n" unless @ARGV and defined $o; > > open(TEMP, ">>$o") > or die "Unable to open '$o' for writing: $!\n"; > } > > print TEMP; > > There is no need to close any filehandles. Your data is coming from > STDIN. You may close TEMP in an END block if you wish, but it is > unnecessary. > > Regarding style (and your future goal of letting the user specify a > directory), consider letting user's shell do all the hard work. For > example, > > $ perl -pe';' file1 file2 >> file3 > $ perl -ne'print if /foo/' dir1/* > file3 > > Of course, it all depends on the program you're writing. This may not be > a feasible solution to your problem. But I thought I'd mention it, > because it might save you time! When writing little scripts like this I > prefer to let UNIX do all the grunt work of listing directories and > pushing data around, instead of opening file handles left and right. > Also, if you use STDOUT and STDERR it gives the user freedom to act on > the output as s/he sees fit. FWIW. > > -- > Mike Pastore > mike@oobak.org > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Walter Torres" > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:14:39 -0500 > Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' > > I'm trying to figure out how to utilize '-n' best. > > I have a cmd line... > > myScript.pl file_1.txt file_2.txt -o result.out > > I want to cycle through all file[s] given by the cmd line (if it's a > path, > all the files in that dir, but that's for later) and spit the results > (whatever it may be) into the file given via the '-o' parameter. > > My test script (see below) > > Is this the best way to accomplish this? > > Thanks for your help. > > Walter > > > ================================================== > > #!/usr/local/bin/perl -n > > BEGIN > { > # place entire cmd line into single scalar > $arg = join ' ', @ARGV; > > # split off the inbound file(s) and the result file > ($arg, $outFile) = split '-o', $arg; > > # rebuilt the cmd line > @ARGV = split ' ', $arg; > > # Open given tmp file > open( TEMP, ">>$outFile") > or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile\n"; > } > > # loop begins here > print TEMP "$ARGV: $.\n"; > > # clode the file when we are done with it > close ARGV if eof; > > # eof > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From mike at oobak.org Tue Sep 16 11:05:44 2003 From: mike at oobak.org (Mike Pastore) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' In-Reply-To: <005501c37c53$02b19c70$6405a8c0@a30> References: ARRAY(0x9f51f78) <20030916095337.3DD733A388@www.fastmail.fm> <005501c37c53$02b19c70$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <20030916160544.20BE41AF91@www.fastmail.fm> There is no -o flag. But he wants to have one. :) On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:00:10 -0500, "Jay Strauss" said: > what's the -o flag? I don't see it under perl -h > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Pastore" > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:53 AM > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' > > > > Hi Walter, > > > > Certainly, you are close! But I might offer some suggestions. To answer > > your last email first, it is easy enough to check @ARGV in your BEGIN > > statement: > > > > BEGIN > > { > > die "usage: $0 -o ... \n" > > unless @ARGV > 2; > > ... > > > > Or perhaps check after you trim out your option. I might also recommend > > the -s switch in this case, as in the following: > > > > #!/usr/bin/perl -n -s > > > > BEGIN > > { > > die "usage: ... \n" unless @ARGV and defined $o; > > > > open(TEMP, ">>$o") > > or die "Unable to open '$o' for writing: $!\n"; > > } > > > > print TEMP; > > > > There is no need to close any filehandles. Your data is coming from > > STDIN. You may close TEMP in an END block if you wish, but it is > > unnecessary. > > > > Regarding style (and your future goal of letting the user specify a > > directory), consider letting user's shell do all the hard work. For > > example, > > > > $ perl -pe';' file1 file2 >> file3 > > $ perl -ne'print if /foo/' dir1/* > file3 > > > > Of course, it all depends on the program you're writing. This may not be > > a feasible solution to your problem. But I thought I'd mention it, > > because it might save you time! When writing little scripts like this I > > prefer to let UNIX do all the grunt work of listing directories and > > pushing data around, instead of opening file handles left and right. > > Also, if you use STDOUT and STDERR it gives the user freedom to act on > > the output as s/he sees fit. FWIW. > > > > -- > > Mike Pastore > > mike@oobak.org > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > From: "Walter Torres" > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:14:39 -0500 > > Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' > > > > I'm trying to figure out how to utilize '-n' best. > > > > I have a cmd line... > > > > myScript.pl file_1.txt file_2.txt -o result.out > > > > I want to cycle through all file[s] given by the cmd line (if it's a > > path, > > all the files in that dir, but that's for later) and spit the results > > (whatever it may be) into the file given via the '-o' parameter. > > > > My test script (see below) > > > > Is this the best way to accomplish this? > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > Walter > > > > > > ================================================== > > > > #!/usr/local/bin/perl -n > > > > BEGIN > > { > > # place entire cmd line into single scalar > > $arg = join ' ', @ARGV; > > > > # split off the inbound file(s) and the result file > > ($arg, $outFile) = split '-o', $arg; > > > > # rebuilt the cmd line > > @ARGV = split ' ', $arg; > > > > # Open given tmp file > > open( TEMP, ">>$outFile") > > or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile\n"; > > } > > > > # loop begins here > > print TEMP "$ARGV: $.\n"; > > > > # clode the file when we are done with it > > close ARGV if eof; > > > > # eof > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From walter at torres.ws Tue Sep 16 12:22:31 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' In-Reply-To: <005501c37c53$02b19c70$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: Mike, thanks for the explanations. I'll have to digest it for a time. Jay, the '-o' is my cmd line argument to tell my script the what follows is a the argument, either a file name or a path to drop multiples into. Thanks for all your help. Walter From walter at torres.ws Tue Sep 16 14:03:56 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' and wildcards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A new question, about wildcards. I have a script I wrote sometime ago that accepted and processed wildcard parameters... use File::KGlob; @files = glob ( "*.txt" ); That worked just fine. Now I'm trying to use a new technique (for me) the -n -s (as suggested by Mark and Andy). I have a test script that accepts filenames from the command line, pulls out the '-o' (mine) filename for the results to be placed. > test3.pl demo_1.log demo_2.log demo_3.log -0 results.log It opens each file and runs down the contents, spitting them out to the result.log just fine. Next step is to handle wild cards... > test3.pl demo_*.log -0 results.log Anyone have any pointers on how to "upgrade" my script to handle wild cards? Also, the current incarnation of my script places all results into a single file. I have a desire to place the results of each file in their own log file, in a different directory. > test3.pl demo_*.log -0 /new/path This should place the results of our munging into a file of the same name as the original in the given directory. I know how to handle coding when the file is over... # built-in loop begins here ================================ # This technique uses Perl built-in methods to # handle multiple files and iterate through each # file in turn. Makes life a bit easier! # We will need to munge each row in turn, later # This just spits out the file name and row number print RESULT "$ARGV: $.\n"; # Place end data into log file # Name of file and number of records processed &to_log("FILE: $ARGV $. records") if (eof); # built-in loop ends here ================================== So, I guess I' asking, is there a START_OF_FILE sort of thing? I need to open a new RESULT file each time Perl opens an a new input file. Any pointers, doc URLS, etc that I can read up on this? I've searched and read till me eyes hurt. I've found nothing, but then again, I figure I'm not asking the right questions. Thanks for your help. Walter From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Tue Sep 16 14:29:20 2003 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' and wildcards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030916192920.GA40681@utility.jamundsen.dyndns.org> Walter, How about using the -i switch followed by an extension. Something like perl -i.old -e 'code'. This does away with the -o switch and renames the original file to be .old. But it should handle each file separately and handle wildcards on the commandline. Regards, On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 02:03:56PM -0500, Walter Torres wrote: > A new question, about wildcards. > > I have a script I wrote sometime ago that accepted and processed wildcard > parameters... > > use File::KGlob; > @files = glob ( "*.txt" ); > > That worked just fine. > > Now I'm trying to use a new technique (for me) the -n -s (as suggested by > Mark and Andy). > > I have a test script that accepts filenames from the command line, pulls out > the '-o' (mine) filename for the results to be placed. > > > test3.pl demo_1.log demo_2.log demo_3.log -0 results.log > > It opens each file and runs down the contents, spitting them out to the > result.log just fine. > > Next step is to handle wild cards... > > > test3.pl demo_*.log -0 results.log > > Anyone have any pointers on how to "upgrade" my script to handle wild cards? > > Also, the current incarnation of my script places all results into a single > file. > > I have a desire to place the results of each file in their own log file, in > a different directory. > > > test3.pl demo_*.log -0 /new/path > > This should place the results of our munging into a file of the same name as > the original in the given directory. > > I know how to handle coding when the file is over... > > # built-in loop begins here ================================ > # This technique uses Perl built-in methods to > # handle multiple files and iterate through each > # file in turn. Makes life a bit easier! > > # We will need to munge each row in turn, later > # This just spits out the file name and row number > print RESULT "$ARGV: $.\n"; > > # Place end data into log file > # Name of file and number of records processed > &to_log("FILE: $ARGV $. records") if (eof); > > # built-in loop ends here ================================== > > > So, I guess I' asking, is there a START_OF_FILE sort of thing? > > I need to open a new RESULT file each time Perl opens an a new input file. > > Any pointers, doc URLS, etc that I can read up on this? > > I've searched and read till me eyes hurt. I've found nothing, but then > again, I figure I'm not asking the right questions. > > Thanks for your help. > > Walter > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20030916/0be35e93/attachment.bin From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 16 16:23:42 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] last night's meeting Message-ID: <20030916212342.GB11977@ink.inkdroid.org> I wish I could've made it last night. Is anyone willing to write up a review of the talk last night on use.perl.org? Jason's talk is archived on the chicago.pm website (hope that's ok Jason). Also, Jay Strauss' review of Essential CVS is now up there. Were there any ideas for the meeting next month, and was there any discussion of the straw poll? //Ed From walter at torres.ws Tue Sep 16 17:09:29 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I have this piece that opens a file or dies trying with a little error sent to STOUT. open( TEMP, ">>./$outFile ") or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile \n"; But, I have this in a loop of file names to parse. So I need to have this try and open that file, and if it fails, send a call to a function (that logs stuff) and tell the FOR loop to go on to the next in the list. I figure that there must be a way to test if a file can be opened before actually opening it and then have conditionals around that.... if (! open $outFile) { &to_log ("$outFile Error: $errCode"); continue; } I know I've done this before, but my brain dead head can't remember this, nor have I been able to find any URL via GOGGLE that helps me. Thanks for your patience through these basic questions. That's what I get for not working in Perl for way too long! Walter From walter at torres.ws Tue Sep 16 17:30:27 2003 From: walter at torres.ws (Walter Torres) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See, given enough time, an infinite number of monkeys banging on keyboards will create Shakespeare complete works! I came up with this solution. It works, but is there a better way? Walter open( TEMP, ">>./$outFile "); if($!) { # Send error message to log file &to_log("ERROR: $outFile $!"); # Jump to next file in list next; } From mike at oobak.org Tue Sep 16 18:47:30 2003 From: mike at oobak.org (Mike Pastore) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... In-Reply-To: ARRAY(0x9ed4c34) References: ARRAY(0x9d8176c) Message-ID: <20030916234730.83A3B3BE8B@www.fastmail.fm> Hi Walter, Have you ever visited the site perlmonks.org? It is a Perl forum dedicated to answering questions just like these. You may have better luck there. I'm new to the list but I don't believe it's meant for this type of discussion. Don't you mean to be testing input files, not output files? If the output file can't be opened, you definitely want to "die". Also, if you're using the -p or -n switch, you don't need to explicitly open input files. It will read them from the command line automatically. And if a file is missing, perl will output its own error message: $ ./walter.pl -o=file3 file1 file2 file4 Can't open file4: No such file or directory, <> line 10. Regards, Mike On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:09:29 -0500, "Walter Torres" said: > OK, I have this piece that opens a file or dies trying with a little > error > sent to STOUT. > > open( TEMP, ">>./$outFile ") > or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile \n"; > > But, I have this in a loop of file names to parse. > > So I need to have this try and open that file, and if it fails, send a > call > to a function (that logs stuff) and tell the FOR loop to go on to the > next > in the list. > > I figure that there must be a way to test if a file can be opened before > actually opening it and then have conditionals around that.... > > if (! open $outFile) > { > &to_log ("$outFile Error: $errCode"); > continue; > } > > I know I've done this before, but my brain dead head can't remember this, > nor have I been able to find any URL via GOGGLE that helps me. > > Thanks for your patience through these basic questions. > > That's what I get for not working in Perl for way too long! > > Walter > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 16 18:55:15 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... In-Reply-To: <20030916234730.83A3B3BE8B@www.fastmail.fm> References: <20030916234730.83A3B3BE8B@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <20030916235515.GB13227@ink.inkdroid.org> On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 05:47:30PM -0600, Mike Pastore wrote: > I'm new to the list but I don't believe it's meant for this type of > discussion. It's fine (in fact encouraged) to ask about Perl here. See http://chicago.pm.org/discuss.html The ny.pm [1] list has some strange [ahem] rules about only talking about beer. But chicago.pm already knows about good beer [2] so we don't have to do that. //Ed [1] http://ny.pm.org/ [2] http://www.gooseisland.com/ From mike at oobak.org Tue Sep 16 19:17:59 2003 From: mike at oobak.org (Mike Pastore) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... In-Reply-To: <20030916235515.GB13227@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030916234730.83A3B3BE8B@www.fastmail.fm> <20030916235515.GB13227@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <20030917001759.505223C051@www.fastmail.fm> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:55:15 -0500, "Ed Summers" said: > On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 05:47:30PM -0600, Mike Pastore wrote: > > I'm new to the list but I don't believe it's meant for this type of > > discussion. > > It's fine (in fact encouraged) to ask about Perl here. See > http://chicago.pm.org/discuss.html Right you are. Thanks, Ed. :) Mike From me at heyjay.com Tue Sep 16 21:08:07 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... References: Message-ID: <00e901c37cc0$8c623fc0$6405a8c0@a30> Check out the -X tests at: http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.6/pod/func/X.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Torres" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 5:09 PM Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... > OK, I have this piece that opens a file or dies trying with a little error > sent to STOUT. > > open( TEMP, ">>./$outFile ") > or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile \n"; > > But, I have this in a loop of file names to parse. > > So I need to have this try and open that file, and if it fails, send a call > to a function (that logs stuff) and tell the FOR loop to go on to the next > in the list. > > I figure that there must be a way to test if a file can be opened before > actually opening it and then have conditionals around that.... > > if (! open $outFile) > { > &to_log ("$outFile Error: $errCode"); > continue; > } > > I know I've done this before, but my brain dead head can't remember this, > nor have I been able to find any URL via GOGGLE that helps me. > > Thanks for your patience through these basic questions. > > That's what I get for not working in Perl for way too long! > > Walter > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From me at heyjay.com Tue Sep 16 22:26:33 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' References: ARRAY(0x9f51f78) <20030916095337.3DD733A388@www.fastmail.fm><005501c37c53$02b19c70$6405a8c0@a30> <20030916160544.20BE41AF91@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <017601c37ccc$bc5e86f0$6405a8c0@a30> I feel dumb Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pastore" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' > There is no -o flag. But he wants to have one. :) > > On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:00:10 -0500, "Jay Strauss" said: > > what's the -o flag? I don't see it under perl -h > > > > Jay > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Pastore" > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' > > > > > > > Hi Walter, > > > > > > Certainly, you are close! But I might offer some suggestions. To answer > > > your last email first, it is easy enough to check @ARGV in your BEGIN > > > statement: > > > > > > BEGIN > > > { > > > die "usage: $0 -o ... \n" > > > unless @ARGV > 2; > > > ... > > > > > > Or perhaps check after you trim out your option. I might also recommend > > > the -s switch in this case, as in the following: > > > > > > #!/usr/bin/perl -n -s > > > > > > BEGIN > > > { > > > die "usage: ... \n" unless @ARGV and defined $o; > > > > > > open(TEMP, ">>$o") > > > or die "Unable to open '$o' for writing: $!\n"; > > > } > > > > > > print TEMP; > > > > > > There is no need to close any filehandles. Your data is coming from > > > STDIN. You may close TEMP in an END block if you wish, but it is > > > unnecessary. > > > > > > Regarding style (and your future goal of letting the user specify a > > > directory), consider letting user's shell do all the hard work. For > > > example, > > > > > > $ perl -pe';' file1 file2 >> file3 > > > $ perl -ne'print if /foo/' dir1/* > file3 > > > > > > Of course, it all depends on the program you're writing. This may not be > > > a feasible solution to your problem. But I thought I'd mention it, > > > because it might save you time! When writing little scripts like this I > > > prefer to let UNIX do all the grunt work of listing directories and > > > pushing data around, instead of opening file handles left and right. > > > Also, if you use STDOUT and STDERR it gives the user freedom to act on > > > the output as s/he sees fit. FWIW. > > > > > > -- > > > Mike Pastore > > > mike@oobak.org > > > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > > From: "Walter Torres" > > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:14:39 -0500 > > > Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' > > > > > > I'm trying to figure out how to utilize '-n' best. > > > > > > I have a cmd line... > > > > > > myScript.pl file_1.txt file_2.txt -o result.out > > > > > > I want to cycle through all file[s] given by the cmd line (if it's a > > > path, > > > all the files in that dir, but that's for later) and spit the results > > > (whatever it may be) into the file given via the '-o' parameter. > > > > > > My test script (see below) > > > > > > Is this the best way to accomplish this? > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > Walter > > > > > > > > > ================================================== > > > > > > #!/usr/local/bin/perl -n > > > > > > BEGIN > > > { > > > # place entire cmd line into single scalar > > > $arg = join ' ', @ARGV; > > > > > > # split off the inbound file(s) and the result file > > > ($arg, $outFile) = split '-o', $arg; > > > > > > # rebuilt the cmd line > > > @ARGV = split ' ', $arg; > > > > > > # Open given tmp file > > > open( TEMP, ">>$outFile") > > > or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile\n"; > > > } > > > > > > # loop begins here > > > print TEMP "$ARGV: $.\n"; > > > > > > # clode the file when we are done with it > > > close ARGV if eof; > > > > > > # eof > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From briank at kappacs.com Tue Sep 16 23:53:14 2003 From: briank at kappacs.com (Brian Katzung) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Growing Kappa Computer Solutions LLC - you're invited to participate Message-ID: <3F67E8BA.6000705@kappacs.com> I've spoken to a number of you previously on the list and at meetings about growing my company, Kappa Computer Solutions, LLC. The meeting below is the next step in my growth plan, and Chicago Perl Mongers are invited to participate. Kappa Computer Solutions, LLC Growth Meeting & Brainstorming Session Saturday, October 18, 2003 12:30 - 3:00 PM Northbrook, IL Kappa Computer Solutions, LLC is a small company providing custom software and consulting for clients with UNIX-based systems. It is owned and operated by Brian and Katherine Katzung. We are looking to expand the company. To this end, you are invited to the Northbrook home of Brian and Katherine for a discussion and brainstorming session to include at least the following topics: - Company Vision - Staffing - Projects - Inter-Company Collaborations - Marketing We will serve a light lunch at 12:30 and will begin the discussions at 1:00. Please respond by email to rchp1003@kappacs.com if you would like to attend. I will mail directions and additional information. If you have questions, feel free to contact me at 877.367.8837 extension 1. - Brian Katzung From me at heyjay.com Wed Sep 17 00:25:08 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Ownership problems with CPAN Message-ID: <01b901c37cdc$10a8e7a0$6405a8c0@a30> Hi, I'm running Debian Woody, I'm trying to get (and install) Date::Format, but I keep getting permission problems. Besides just getting the source myself and installing it, how can I make cpan work around the below: thanks Jay cpan> get Date::Format CPAN: Storable loaded ok Going to read /usr/local/src/cpan/Metadata Database was generated on Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:45:36 GMT Running get for module Date::Format CPAN: Digest::MD5 loaded ok CPAN: Compress::Zlib loaded ok Checksum for /usr/local/src/cpan/sources/authors/id/G/GB/GBARR/TimeDate-1.16.tar.gz ok Scanning cache /usr/local/src/cpan/build for sizes TimeDate-1.16/ TimeDate-1.16/lib/ TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/ TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/Language/ TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/Language/Sidama.pm /bin/tar: TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/Language/Sidama.pm: Cannot change ownership to uid 500, gid 100: Operation not permitted TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/Language/Finnish.pm /bin/tar: TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/Language/Finnish.pm: Cannot change ownership to uid 500, gid 0: Operation not permitted TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/Language/Amharic.pm /bin/tar: TimeDate-1.16/lib/Date/Language/Amharic.pm: Cannot change ownership to uid 500, gid 100: Operation not permitted .... From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 17 00:20:08 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Ownership problems with CPAN In-Reply-To: <01b901c37cdc$10a8e7a0$6405a8c0@a30> References: <01b901c37cdc$10a8e7a0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <20030917052008.GA4195@petdance.com> On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 12:25:08AM -0500, Jay Strauss (me@heyjay.com) wrote: > Hi, I'm running Debian Woody, I'm trying to get (and install) Date::Format, > but I keep getting permission problems. Besides just getting the source > myself and installing it, how can I make cpan work around the below: Are you running it under sudo? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From me at heyjay.com Wed Sep 17 08:11:42 2003 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Ownership problems with CPAN References: <01b901c37cdc$10a8e7a0$6405a8c0@a30> <20030917052008.GA4195@petdance.com> Message-ID: <004b01c37d1d$3e7849a0$6405a8c0@a30> No, I'm doing an: su - cpan Date::Format Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lester" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Ownership problems with CPAN > On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 12:25:08AM -0500, Jay Strauss (me@heyjay.com) wrote: > > Hi, I'm running Debian Woody, I'm trying to get (and install) Date::Format, > > but I keep getting permission problems. Besides just getting the source > > myself and installing it, how can I make cpan work around the below: > > Are you running it under sudo? > > xoa > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From pbaker at where2getit.com Wed Sep 17 12:00:42 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Ownership problems with CPAN In-Reply-To: <01b901c37cdc$10a8e7a0$6405a8c0@a30> Message-ID: <788EAA5A-E930-11D7-9CB0-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 12:25 AM, Jay Strauss wrote: > Hi, I'm running Debian Woody, I'm trying to get (and install) > Date::Format, > but I keep getting permission problems. Since you are on Debian, unless you particularly need a newer version off of CPAN, you may just want to go with the package for the module that Debian already provides. apt-get install libtimedate-perl I'm not sure if Date::Format has any XS (C) code in the module, but if it does, this will have a nice advantage that when you later upgrade to the next release of Debian (Sarge) which will ship with Perl 5.8, you won't have to worry about recompiling or reinstalling any Perl modules to work with 5.8 because they will all be upgraded at the same time. > Besides just getting the source > myself and installing it, how can I make cpan work around the below: But to solve your CPAN problem, you probably need to make sure you are running it as root. -- Paul Baker "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From shawn at owbn.org Wed Sep 17 20:17:09 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next months meeting Message-ID: <3230.166.90.68.164.1063847829.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> I just realized that we closed monday's meeting w/o deciding on a topic for next month. Do we have volunteers? --Shawn -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From jt at plainblack.com Wed Sep 17 20:07:52 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next months meeting In-Reply-To: <3230.166.90.68.164.1063847829.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: Did you decide on a date for next month's meeting? I missed this one because I didn't know the date (joined the list too late). On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:17:09 -0500 (CDT) "Shawn C Carroll" wrote: >I just realized that we closed monday's meeting w/o deciding on a topic >for next month. Do we have volunteers? > >--Shawn > > >-- >Shawn Carroll >shawn@owbn.org >Perl Programmer >Soccer Referee >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From shawn at owbn.org Thu Sep 18 06:55:06 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next months meeting In-Reply-To: References: <3230.166.90.68.164.1063847829.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: <4181.144.208.64.122.1063886106.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> The meetings are the third monday of every month, so Mon October 20, 2003 will be the next meeting. --Shawn JT Smith said: > Did you decide on a date for next month's meeting? I missed this one > because I didn't > know the date (joined the list too late). > > > > On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:17:09 -0500 (CDT) > "Shawn C Carroll" wrote: >>I just realized that we closed monday's meeting w/o deciding on a topic >>for next month. Do we have volunteers? >> >>--Shawn >> >> >>-- >>Shawn Carroll >>shawn@owbn.org >>Perl Programmer >>Soccer Referee >>_______________________________________________ >>Chicago-talk mailing list >>Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > JT ~ Plain Black > > Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From jt at plainblack.com Thu Sep 18 07:08:34 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next months meeting In-Reply-To: <4181.144.208.64.122.1063886106.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: >The meetings are the third monday of every month, so Mon October 20, 2003 >will be the next meeting. Thanks JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From ehs at pobox.com Thu Sep 18 09:31:51 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] chicago perl jobs RSS Message-ID: <20030918143150.GA23031@ink.inkdroid.org> Before I moved here a year ago I set up job search agents with Monster, Dice and the Tribune to look for Perl jobs in the chicago area. I was lucky enough to land a job working for Andy up in McHenry, but the email notifications kept coming. As an experiment I created qmail filters (written in Perl) that extract the jobs and publish them on my website. http://www.inkdroid.org/perl/blog/jobs And, if you are into RSS feeds you can get the jobs as RSS by hitting this url: http://www.inkdroid.org/perl/blog/jobs/xml Feel free to use the data if you want. //Ed ps. the feed also includes jobs from jobs.perl.org which aren't all in the chicago area. pss. in addition to perl it includes linux/unix jobs too. -- Ed Summers aim: inkdroid web: http://www.inkdroid.org The deeper I go the darker it gets. [Peter Gabriel] From shawn at owbn.org Thu Sep 18 09:16:02 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] chicago perl jobs RSS In-Reply-To: <20030918143150.GA23031@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030918143150.GA23031@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <1525.144.208.64.122.1063894562.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Ed, Thanx for letting us use this. I just have one point, and yes i know I'm being pendantic, but the second postscript to a letter is pps. :) --Shawn Ed Summers said: > > pss. in addition to perl it includes linux/unix jobs too. > > -- > Ed Summers > aim: inkdroid > web: http://www.inkdroid.org > > The deeper I go the darker it gets. [Peter Gabriel] > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From jason at multiply.org Thu Sep 18 08:48:57 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] monday's meeting Message-ID: <1063892937.d1de27249e4ea@www.multiply.org> Thanks to everyone who made it out to the meeting. Your questions and suggestions will help me on my next version of the talk. If anyone has any further questions or comments, please send them my way. Also, i will be giving a modified version of the talk at the upcoming perlsig at the college of dupage. More info and directions are available at http://www.uniforum.chi.il.us/ -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From ehs at pobox.com Thu Sep 18 09:39:36 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] chicago perl jobs RSS In-Reply-To: <1525.144.208.64.122.1063894562.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> References: <20030918143150.GA23031@ink.inkdroid.org> <1525.144.208.64.122.1063894562.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: <20030918143936.GB23031@ink.inkdroid.org> On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 09:16:02AM -0500, Shawn C Carroll wrote: > but the second postscript to a letter is pps. :) Shawn, you've been writing documentation too long ;) //Ed From jason at multiply.org Thu Sep 18 21:33:33 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl with cygwin & native win32 gvim? In-Reply-To: <20030918143936.GB23031@ink.inkdroid.org> References: <20030918143150.GA23031@ink.inkdroid.org> <1525.144.208.64.122.1063894562.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> <20030918143936.GB23031@ink.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <1063938813.9037c6b6eea95@www.multiply.org> Hi there. Is anyone on the list using perl with cygwin & native win32 gvim? Basically, I want to be able to run my perl scripts from within the native GVIM inside a cygwin bash shell. Any thoughts? -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ From Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com Fri Sep 19 00:08:45 2003 From: Aaron.Young at citadelgroup.com (Young, Aaron) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl with cygwin & native win32 gvim? Message-ID: <800BCF60D1553144BABCBFCE36249D3D44FF75@CORPEMAIL.citadelgroup.com> while i don't do this i'm anxious to hear what people have been doing as i do vim on win32 and have been considering doing more scripting there (when in Rome) on a related subject anyone have anything vim/perl/*nix they want to share? i've been using the compiler=perl setting to get it to allow me to jump between syntax errors when i do "make" also, the simple, seting 'K' to do a 'perldoc -f' on the work my cursor is currently over and i've used ptags, but not a lot and please, i understand that emacs has sooooo many must have perl features, pretty please, with sugar on top, kickoff another thread Aaron F Young Broker Reconciliation Operations & Portfolio Finance Citadel Investment Group LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: jason scott gessner [mailto:jason@multiply.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:34 PM > To: chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl with cygwin & native win32 gvim? > > > Hi there. > > Is anyone on the list using perl with cygwin & native win32 > gvim? Basically, I > want to be able to run my perl scripts from within the native > GVIM inside a > cygwin bash shell. > > Any thoughts? > > -jason scott gessner > jason@multiply.org > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY AND SECURITY NOTICE This e-mail contains information that may be confidential and proprietary. It is to be read and used solely by the intended recipient(s). Citadel and its affiliates retain all proprietary rights they may have in the information. 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From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Fri Sep 19 01:16:19 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Q on '-n' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1999500000.1063952179@[192.168.200.4]> --On Tuesday, September 16, 2003 02:14:39 -0500 Walter Torres wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to utilize '-n' best. > > I have a cmd line... > > myScript.pl file_1.txt file_2.txt -o result.out > > I want to cycle through all file[s] given by the cmd line (if it's a path, > all the files in that dir, but that's for later) and spit the results > (whatever it may be) into the file given via the '-o' parameter. > > My test script (see below) > > Is this the best way to accomplish this? > > Thanks for your help. See Getopt::Long. Also you want the switch before the command line arguments: foo -o bar.out file1 file2 file3; so: #!/blah/perl -w use Getopt::Long; my @optionz = qw( verbose! outpath=s ); my $cmdline = {}; unless( GetOptions($cmdline,@optionz) ) { print "Usage: ... "; exit 2; } my $verbose = $cmdline->{verbose} || 0; my $outpath = $cmdline->{outpath} || "./defaultpath.out"; open my $fh, '>', $outpath or die "$outpath: $!"; ... -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Fri Sep 19 01:17:24 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OK< *real* stupid Q time... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2000890000.1063952244@[192.168.200.4]> --On Tuesday, September 16, 2003 17:09:29 -0500 Walter Torres wrote: > OK, I have this piece that opens a file or dies trying with a little error > sent to STOUT. > > open( TEMP, ">>./$outFile ") > or die "No Way! \n$!\n$outFile \n"; > > But, I have this in a loop of file names to parse. > > So I need to have this try and open that file, and if it fails, send a > call to a function (that logs stuff) and tell the FOR loop to go on to > the next in the list. > > I figure that there must be a way to test if a file can be opened before > actually opening it and then have conditionals around that.... > > if (! open $outFile) > { > &to_log ("$outFile Error: $errCode"); > continue; > } > > I know I've done this before, but my brain dead head can't remember this, > nor have I been able to find any URL via GOGGLE that helps me. > > Thanks for your patience through these basic questions. > > That's what I get for not working in Perl for way too long! That or just use a lexical for the file handle and re-open it as necessary, or put the open outside the loop. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 From shawn at owbn.org Sun Sep 21 19:55:07 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Learning Perl Objects review Message-ID: <3248.67.73.166.44.1064192107.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Book Title: Learning Perl Objects, References & Modules Authors: Randal L. Schwartz with Tom Phoenix Publisher: O?Reilly Pages: 205 with Index Website: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lrnperlorm Reviewer: Shawn C. Carroll Synopsis: Learning Perl Objects continues your perl education where the llama book left off. With clear, easy to follow instruction, the reader is taught the finer points of perl objects, dealing with references and the how and why of modules. Each chapter covers the topic in hand well and is supplemented by very useful exercises to use what was learned. Review: The first book you picked up to learn Perl probably had a llama on its cover. You then picked up the camel book to continue your education. There was a gap though between those two books, an introduction to object orientated perl was missing. Well, Randal has now written the prefect bridging book in Learning Perl Objects, References & Modules(LPORM). This book should be on your shelf if your new to perl, or even if you?ve used perl for the past years only for short scripts. LPORM will move your perl from scripts to programs. After an introductory chapter, Schwartz jumps right into making your perl programs better. By using seven castaways from a three hour tour, we learn the basics of refactoring and module usage. The next three chapters gently introduce references and advanced data structures. The difference in these five chapters and the same subject matter from the Advanced Perl Programming (APP) book is the level of the target audience. Here Schwartz walks the reader through each topic with code examples, where APP gave the information in a dryer, more mater of fact-ly format. Where APP was for experienced programmers, LPORM is for newer programmers. The following for four chapters discussed Object Orientated Programming, perl style. With the help of a talking horse, the reader is stepped through basic OOP principles such as inheritance, destruction (a _whole_ chapter on object destruction), and others. This section of the book is where many will find benefit. Schwartz finishes the book sliding into module creation, testing and distribution via CPAN. These chapters are essential for putting a professional shine on your perl. In all, I think this book is needed by all newer perl programmers and those that wish to take their perl to the next level. The price point of US$35 may seem steep for only 205 pages, but LPORM is packed with information that will help. The book was free of glaring technical or grammatical errors to boot. -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From merlyn at stonehenge.com Mon Sep 22 11:34:49 2003 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Learning Perl Objects review In-Reply-To: <3248.67.73.166.44.1064192107.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> References: <3248.67.73.166.44.1064192107.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: <86zngw7pej.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Shawn" == Shawn C Carroll writes: Shawn> Book Title: Learning Perl Objects, References & Modules Shawn> Authors: Randal L. Schwartz with Tom Phoenix Shawn> Publisher: O?Reilly Shawn> Pages: 205 with Index Shawn> Website: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lrnperlorm Shawn> Reviewer: Shawn C. Carroll Thank you very much for your review. I've forwarded it to ORA and Tom as well. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 22 18:13:23 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Learning Perl Objects review In-Reply-To: <86zngw7pej.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <3248.67.73.166.44.1064192107.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> <86zngw7pej.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20030922231322.GA23207@ink.inkdroid.org> > Thank you very much for your review. I've forwarded it to ORA and Tom > as well. It'll be up on the website the next time Andy sync's it with CVS as well. //Ed From lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com Tue Sep 23 08:11:28 2003 From: lembark at jeeves.wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Updated notes for Bioinfo talk Message-ID: <867350000.1064322688@[192.168.200.4]> The other version had too many PNG's in it. I've converted the whole thing to flat ascii -- enjoy the artwork :-) -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 888 910 1206 -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Throwing Bioinformatics a [W-]curve: Perl for high-speed, high-volume DNA sequence comparison. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A funny thing happend on the way to a petri dish: watching things grow isn't enough any more. You have to look inside them, further than a microscope can go. Recent problems in biology can no longer be handled by cell cultures alone. In particular, using the information contained in DNA involves managing huge amounts of raw data in increasingly complex ways. Academics are persuing questions on the causes of disease and origin of species; lots of money is being thrown at improving the cycle of drug discovery by pharmaceutical companies. All of this centers around finding faster, more flexable ways of comparing sequences of DNA that make up our genes. By now, everyone has seen the representation of DNA as "base pairs" as the letters "C", "G", "T", and "A". Their sequences make up the genetic code. A common question, then, is why are the comparisons so difficult, when all the DNA is just a bunch of strings? Answer: they aren't. DNA is not read as a single sequence but in chunks of 3 units (see next page). Given the [CATG] units, there are 64 combinations of DNA -- but only 20 amino acids they encode. This leaves the third base pair in each sequence partially redundent. The number of mappings ranges from 2 (ARG, SER) to one (TRP) with most having 4 encodings. Good news: biologically, we can survive copying errors. Bad news: variations make it really difficult to make the comparisons. The obvious fix would be to convert the DNA to regexen like /CA[TG]CT[CG]/ Catch: it doesn't work. The simple reason is that genes are thousands of bases long, which leaves the regexen unmanagable. The real reason is that eucaryote genes (pretty much evertyhing from yeast on up) have non-copying pieces of DNA named "interons" that don't have any affect on the resulting protein. Of the 450_000 bases in hemogloben, about 85% of the DNA never gets "used": it's snipped out of the RNA copy before being used to make proteins. The obvious fix here would be to ignore the interons -- which would work if only we could find them reliably. There are also repeats: short sequences of DNA repeated multiple times. These affect the protein without changing it too much. One example of this is a TATA repeat in hemogloben that gives us A, B, and O blood. As protiens get larger -- and their DNA encoding longer -- the range of changes that lead to largely equivalent but still different proteins also grows. Now try comparing genes between species... ... which is exactly what you need to do next. Microarrays are good for showing what is active in a cell -- for example active genes in human liver cancer cells. The problem is that you probably don't want to grow humans in order to test genetic variations and cures. You want to call the company in Maine that makes the funny hairless mice. The problem now is finding the gene in a mouse that matches most closely the gene in a human that when it goes haywire gives humans liver cancer. This requires scanning the mouse chromosome for similar-enough matches that they may perform the same function in a mouse as a person. Existing techniques for making these comparisons perform alignments between the various genes. This involves paring up bases in the seqence, introducing "gaps" where the two genes don't seem to fit: ...CATCTT---CATTGCGCC... ...CATCTTGCCCATTGCGCC... The problem here is that DNA repeats the same short sequences many times and two genes may not align at three-unit boundries: ...CATCTGTA--CTGATA... ...CATCTGTATACTGATA... Gaps are also recursive: adding one offsets all the bases downstream, which may add new gaps or may require a larger gap to push everythign back into its proper place. The most effective methods today -- BLAST, Fasta, Clustal -- cannot handle long genes or repeats well, inerons at all. Face it: for comparing genes, strings just don't cut it. Curves, however, may. Approximation techiques work by trading degrees of freedom in the problem set for a more inclusive outcome. With only one dimension to start with, strings simply don't have anything to give up. One way of converting a string of DNA into a usable curve is by using it as input to a finite state machine -- similar to Dr. Wolfram's cellular automatia. At each step the "bug" does whatever the next base in the DNA sequence tells it to. This can convert a linear string into whatever convouted shape the rules tell it to. Given a useful set of rules, the shape produced can be approached with approximation techniques. One example is to take a square with corners at [+/-1,+/-1] Label one set of opposing corners "A" and "T" the others "C" and "G". Label the bases along the gene [1..N], start the curve at [0,0,0] and let the bug walk halfway to the corner labeled with the next base. Comparing the genes then involves comparing the curves generated by two bugs walking their respective genes. Which is where I finally saw a camel peeking in under my tent. The tent was parked over a C++ based visualazation system called the W-curve (described above). The technique is pretty good for viewing gened within strings of DNA, but comparing any long set of DNA using 3D curves on a monitor can just as easily induce blidness as instanity. My mission was to find a way for the machine to make comparisons instead of increasingly feeble-eyed humans. Our goal is to boldly going were no nerd had gone before: comparing large sequences of DNA quickly. Making it effecient gives a few good examples of how to look at problems and adapt them for use with Perl. The first steps were looking at the algorithem. One of the more common things that done to a W-curve is rotating it about the z-axis. Cartesian co-ordinates make this a three step operation, with three 4x4 matrices involved. Ouch. First fix: convert the coord's to cylindrical: [r, a, Z], leaving rotation as a simple addition. Now the coordinates work, but the maximum radius is sqrt 2. Second fix: start the corners at [0,1], which gives a unit radius: >From This: A+------+------+ C (1,1) | | | | | | | | | | | | --+------+------+-- | | | | | | | | | | | | G+------+------+ T To this: +A /|\ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ G / | \ C (1,0) --+------+------+-- \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \|/ +T At this point the only thing left is to compute the half interval. Halving the distance is one way, but this requires a square root, which is expensive. Taking the arctan of the half-intervals is simple enough and involves mostly table lookups. The unit radius helps since addition and by one is simple and division by one even easier. The last modification was to notice that rotations are simple addition, and the math works equally well for any of the corners. This allows computing the half-interval from any point to (1,0) and rotating it to the appropriate corner. The sequence is: find the angle for a corner (e.g., C == 0, A == PI/2) and subtract it from the current vector's angle. After that the math for a point with respect to (1,0) is the same, with a single addition required to move the point around to where it belongs. The point is that two rather minor looking geometric shifts simplified my life on this enormously. Result: generating W-curves in Perl is a snap. Using map, of course, to convert split //, $dnastring into an array of [$radius, $angle]. Comparing the curves is where the real fun begins, and introduces one way to deal with Perl's lack of pointers for effeciently handling multiple sequences of data. People used to C bemoan the lack of pointers in Perl: "arrays just don't cut it for comparisons", they say, "becuase you have to scan the entire array to access the offsets." This is partly due to programmers misusing structures in Perl -- or not using them at all. The usual approach to comparing two lists in C is a pair of pointers: foo_t *a = list1; foo_t *b = list2; while( *a != (foo_t *)NULL && *b != (foo_t *)NULL ) { foo_compare( a, b ); } Lacking pointers in Perl, one fix is to use arrays with offsets to walk the lists: for( 0..$#a ) { foo_compare $a[$_], $b[$_]; } the problem here is that you end up walking a list for each offset, with a serious performance hit. Another approach uses a for-loop to walk one of the lists, indexing the other. This still has to walk the second list for its data: my $i = 0; for( @a ) { foo_compare $_, $b[$i++]; } Perl can iterate one list quite effectively, it's the second list that hurts. Walking the second list can be avoided if it can be consumed for processing (or duplicating it is cheap): my @c = (); for( @a ) { my $b = shift @b; foo_compare $_, $b; push @c, $b; } @b = @c; The catch here is that @b has to be regenerated for each use or cached by pushing it onto a second list in the loop. Using a referent for @b helps a bit, but can run into issues with the copy back from \@c if $b is blessed or its value used directly (e.g., as the key to a dbi-style metadata hash). My way out of this was to store the data in a single list. Instead of generating separate arrays, the W-curve uses a single list with offsets zero and one for the resulting data: my @dna = @_[0,1]; my $i = length $dna[0]; my $j = length $dna[1]; my @curvz = (); $#curvz = $i > $j ? $i : $j; for( 0, 1 ) { my @a = split //, $dna[$_]; for my $bucket ( @curvz ) { last unless @a; $bucket->[$_] = next_w_curve_value shift @a; } } This leaves the two results merged into a single array @curvz with the values being compared at offsets 0 and 1 in $curves[$i]. Comparing the curves now involves only a single pass over @curvz to complete: compare_two_curve_points $_ for( @curvz ); ... compare_two_curvepoints { my( $a, $b ) = @{$_[0]}; # or just use the referent with offsets: # # my $a = shift; # # $a->[0] and $a->[1] # # $a and $b are the values being compared. } This works well for our use becuase one of the curves will be re-used for each pass. Generating a new curve then requires only clipping the combined array to the two curves' maximum length and generating a curve with offset 1: my $string1 = shift; my $length1 = length $string1; $#curvz = $length0 > length $string1 ? $length0 : $length1; my $a = split //, $string1; $curves[0] = [ 0, 0 ]; for my $bucket ( @curvz ) { $bucket->[1] = next_w_curve_value shift @a; } ... compare_two_curve_points @$_ for( @curvz ); Looks familiar, eh? Re-merging the second curve into a retained array saves re-generating the first curve and leaves comparing them simple. My first-pass comparision function sums a value computed separately at each point and averages it over the length of the longer array. This simple average has the advantage that an array can be partitioned and the sections compared separately. For two points [r0,a0], [r1,a0] the mesasure is computed with: ( $r0, $r1 ) = ( $r1, $r0 ) if $r1 > $r0; my $score = $r0 - $r1 * cos( $a0 - $a1 ); Nice thing about cosines: cos(-a) == cos(a), so the angles don't have to be reversed. The result is a measure that includes distance along the longer radius in the difference but not deviation from it. If the two radii are at less than 90 degrees to one another then their differences will subtract, otherwise they will add; if both radii are small then their angle does not matter much. This allows the two curves to wander along in roughly the same direction with minor separations and still have a fairly low score. The idea here is to handle for variatioins caused by repeats without having to explicitly align the curves. Note that this makes no attempt to handle interons. The current method is only useful for procaryotes or cDNA samples -- which is fine since cDNA is what gets used in microarray expiraments. Using the techniques here I was able to compare the whole genomes of m.genatalaum and m.pneumonia in around 7 minutes in a single process, Perl-5.8 job on linux. This is an improvement over alignment techniques, but does not go very far towards handling larger procaryotes or anything using a eucaryotic-ish quantity of genes to run itself. The next step required a bit if cut and run, so to speak: by slicing up the DNA strings, generation and comparison tasks could hopefully be done in reasonable time. This is workable with W-curves since -- unlike alignment -- they do not modify their input data by introducing gaps: the method can be used for additive piecewise comparison. So, my next step was to partition the generation and comparison so that they could be handled in parallel. The eventual goal of this was to slurp up some time on a local 8-node Beowulf Cluster ("BC") to get the really big jobs done. BC's in their various incarnations currently make up the most powerful number-crunching systems in the known universe. The trick to using them well involves going from "embarassingly parallel" task scheduling to truly-parallel execution using message passing and distributed data. Contrary to most notions, this is an area where Perl shines: most of the nasty work in a BC involves bookkeeping to maintain list of available nodes, jobs pending and dispatched, and associate the return results from individual nodes with their total results. These tasks are nicely suited to Perl's arrays and hashes; Perl's exception handling works well with the kind of error recovery required for network errors and adaptive scheduling. The PVM module makes multi-node dispatch simple enough, with the underlying PVM library handling many of the message passing details automatically. The first step in designing message-driven code is to figure out what the messages will be. In this case reading in a specie's data, selecting a gene for the first and seconcd w-curve lists, initiating computation and comparison, partitioning, and passing back a result seemed like a decent collection of tasks. The code then had to be split into chunks to handle the various messages. This left it looking like event-driven code used in GUI design: handlers for the various messages that call processing routines to really get the work done. Fortunately for me, the messages and their handlers are fairly straightforward: pick a GenBank file for the specie's genome, pick a gene for a species and merge it into the curve array, make the comparison, return the results. Aside from the GenBank file path (which can be made short with default paths), the remaining messages are short strings or pairs of integers. One issue at this point is how to deal with partitioned comparisons. What we came up with is having the nodes generate their own segments of the W-curves using sections of the source data. Since the curve only uses one curve point and the next base, curve generation can be daisy-chained: each node returns a message of the w-curve at the end of its section, then the dispatcher kicks off another job from that point onward. The alternative is to have each node generate the entire w-curve and then compare only sections of them. The choice between these is largely a matter of memory management and time saved generating part of the curved. At this point we are still converting the code for execution in the BC and testing how well my first -- admittedly simplistic -- comparison algorithem works. Once we have worked out the kinks for m.genatalaum and m.pneumonae we can start on procaryotes with longer genomes (e.g., e.coli) and cDNA from eucaryotes. The main point of all this is that Perl can be used for serious number crunching without resoring to XS. It can also be used for programs in messy, complicated situations like genome reseasrch. The main issues are making sure that the problem space is properly defined for handling by Perl and that optimizations are designed into the process carefully instead of being ad hoc hacks. Bioinformatics is a growing, changing field. Perl's fits nicely into this darwinian environment because it adapts. Gracefully handling nested and dynamic data structures is one of its strengths, effecient integration with networking libraries is another. The trick to finding effective solutions is basing them on effective Perl rather than recycled C. The most interesting thing in projects like these is what we find in them: the origins of genes, animal models for human cancer, starting points for drug research. The fun part as a Perl hacker is seeing just how easily Perl handles it all. ------------------------------------------------------- Other places to look for information on Bioinformatics: ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.bioinfo.org/ General information, links to everything else. http://www.bioperl.org/ The bio* projects were intended to build a consistent set of bioinformatics tools in various high-level languages, Perl, Python, Java among them. The BioPerl project has gone the furthest and is the most used of these. The site describes using BioPerl and has good links to other sites. Developing Bioinformatics Computer Skills Gibas & Jambeck, O'Reilly Press. The content covers where biology and informatics meet, including both the chemestry of DNA and basics of Perl. This is a really good place for anyone to start since it covers both biology, Perl, and how they work together. http://www.ora.com/ O'Reilly's bioinformatics conference is detailed on their site, with good references to presenter information and papers. Their site also has a number of good books in the bioinformatics catagory. Genes, VII This is the standard text on genetics, and covers everything from basepairs to ribosome chemestry. Even a cursory reading of the first few chapters can be a big help in understanding gene-speak. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 23 13:59:53 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Updated notes for Bioinfo talk In-Reply-To: <867350000.1064322688@[192.168.200.4]> References: <867350000.1064322688@[192.168.200.4]> Message-ID: <20030923185953.GB27122@ink.inkdroid.org> On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 08:11:28AM -0500, Steven Lembark wrote: > The other version had too many PNG's in it. I've converted the whole > thing to flat ascii -- enjoy the artwork :-) Flat ascii, pushing the web to its minimalist extreme :) http://chicago.pm.org/meetings.html //Ed From ehs at pobox.com Wed Sep 24 21:49:07 2003 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Linked author at Northwestern Message-ID: <20030925024905.GA2001@ink.inkdroid.org> If you enjoyed LINKED [1] you may be interested to see the author talk at Northwestern Oct24-25. Not sure on details [2] yet, but will let you know more if I find them out. //Ed [1] http://www.nd.edu/~networks/linked/ [2] http://www.nd.edu/~alb/UpcomingTalks.htm From jt at plainblack.com Thu Sep 25 11:14:31 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] OSS Chicago Message-ID: One of the companies I work for is sponsoring an open source software event to introduce pointy-haired bosses to OSS. If you have a PHB, or know of any PHB's that you might like to try to swing around to OSS, then please send them this URL: http://www.osschicago.org The event is free and will take place every 2 months. The first one is October 23rd. I'm the first guest speaker. You are all welcome to attend as well, but know in advance that the discussions will not be terribly technical, but rather focusing on the business benefits and strategies of OSS. Also, if you're interested in helping us convert some PHB's, go to the site and apply to be a guest speaker. The following is the official announcement about it: WDI's Director of Technology, JT Smith, will be presenting at OSS Chicago on October 23rd. The purpose of Open Source Chicago is to create open source proponents and users within traditional IT environments. Our goal is to create an environment where professionals can exchange information about the open source software, projects, and OSS licensing so that IT professionals can make informed choices about the use of OSS within their organization. JT will be giving the inaugural presentation titled "An Introduction to Open Source". JT will be covering a brief history of open source, common myths, licensing, where OSS fits in business, and some software to get started with. Refreshments will be provided, as well as time for Q&A, discussion, and networking. Please note that OSS Chicago is not a technology users group. It was created to inform managers and business users about the business benefits of open source software. Techies are welcome, but the discussion will remain business focused. If you are in the Chicago Land area, and are interested in learning more about open source, please check out OSS Chicago. From jt at plainblack.com Thu Sep 25 11:14:20 2003 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject) Message-ID: One of the companies I work for is sponsoring an open source software event to introduce pointy-haired bosses to OSS. If you have a PHB, or know of any PHB's that you might like to try to swing around to OSS, then please send them this URL: http://www.osschicago.org The event is free and will take place every 2 months. The first one is October 23rd. I'm the first guest speaker. You are all welcome to attend as well, but know in advance that the discussions will not be terribly technical, but rather focusing on the business benefits and strategies of OSS. Also, if you're interested in helping us convert some PHB's, go to the site and apply to be a guest speaker. The following is the official announcement about it: WDI's Director of Technology, JT Smith, will be presenting at OSS Chicago on October 23rd. The purpose of Open Source Chicago is to create open source proponents and users within traditional IT environments. Our goal is to create an environment where professionals can exchange information about the open source software, projects, and OSS licensing so that IT professionals can make informed choices about the use of OSS within their organization. JT will be giving the inaugural presentation titled "An Introduction to Open Source". JT will be covering a brief history of open source, common myths, licensing, where OSS fits in business, and some software to get started with. Refreshments will be provided, as well as time for Q&A, discussion, and networking. Please note that OSS Chicago is not a technology users group. It was created to inform managers and business users about the business benefits of open source software. Techies are welcome, but the discussion will remain business focused. If you are in the Chicago Land area, and are interested in learning more about open source, please check out OSS Chicago. From andy at petdance.com Fri Sep 26 13:46:56 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Announcing the Phalanx project Message-ID: Phalanx is a Perl QA project created to provide a solid testing base for Ponie, the next version of Perl 5 that will be based on the Parrot virtual machine. By increasing the test coverage of Perl modules and Perl itself, we will make Ponie be the best-tested version of Perl ever. We also hope to involve members of the Perl community who might not have contributed to Perl before. The first phase of Phalanx will update the tests in 100 of the most-widely modules on CPAN. A Phalanx team member, or hoplite, will pick a distribution and, with the agreement and cooperation of the module's author, start working on the improvements. There may be one hoplite, or many, if the lead hoplite wants to bring others into her part of the project. Along the way, the hoplites will verify accuracy of the documentation, explore the depth and breadth of the module, and make sure that everything that can be tested is tested. Once changes are made, the lead hoplite will feed her patches back to the author, who will update his distribution. All changes are voluntary, and the author still retains full control of his module. There are three goals for Phalanx. The first is to provide an excellent set of tests for the next version of Perl. Perhaps even more important, we want to encourage participation from members of the community who have never contributed back to Perl. It will be easy to get involved, and your involvement can be as much or as little as necessary. Prospective hoplites need not be part of perl5-porters or any perceived "Perl cabal", or even know about Perl internals. Finally, we're certain that we will uncover undiscovered bugs, and we'll identify them for the author, if not eliminate them. We hope that module authors will welcome the contributions of the community, and that those who are interested in getting involved with Perl and open source can make a contribution, no matter how small. Even one .t file for a distribution, or updated documentation for a function, can be a big help. After we've had some success in the first phase of Phalanx, we'll expand the process to Perl 5 itself and the core modules. This phase will be trickier, as we must work with the pumpkings and the rest of perl5-porters. We hope to have enough good lessons learned that it will be an easy transition. Please visit the Phalanx website at http://qa.perl.org/phalanx/. If you'd like to help out, join the perl-qa mailing list, or email me at andy@petdance.com. I look forward to hearing from you. -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From shawn at owbn.org Tue Sep 30 12:36:57 2003 From: shawn at owbn.org (Shawn C Carroll) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Meeting for October? Message-ID: <3725.144.208.64.122.1064943417.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Okay, we have 21 days to decide on a topic for October's meeting. We also should finally put to rest the issue of site time and location. On the topic of the site and time, I say "Yeah it sucks, but it sucks less than anything else." Let's keep it as is. -- Shawn Carroll shawn@owbn.org Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 30 16:20:47 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Meeting for October? In-Reply-To: <3725.144.208.64.122.1064943417.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 12:36 PM, Shawn C Carroll wrote: > Okay, we have 21 days to decide on a topic for October's meeting. If I had the time I would love to do a presentation on Log::Log4perl CPAN module. Unfortunately this is an extremely busy month for me so I won't have time to prepare anything. But it's an idea for someone else, or maybe I'll be able to do it for November. -- Paul Baker "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 30 17:51:10 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dealing with normal command line input? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200309302203.h8UM3uF26597@tetsuo.mengelt.com> Hi all. How do you all generally deal with normal interactive command line input in your scripts? I ask because of a specific problem. For the most part I use cygwin on Windows XP for my perl work. Inside the CPAN shell (after install Term::Readkey), I can edit normally. If I make a mistake and backspace, no funny-business happens. However, with my own scripts that simply read from STDIN (like some of my blogging scripts), any backspaces or arrow keys show up as control characters. Is this my environment or is there something simple I am missing? This behaviour is only showing up on my cygwin environment, but I am unable to find any really good info on this issue. Things are ship shape on Mac OSX and redhat (7.2 and 9). Thanks! -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org From andy at petdance.com Tue Sep 30 18:01:46 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Vote for October's talk topic In-Reply-To: <3725.144.208.64.122.1064943417.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> References: <3725.144.208.64.122.1064943417.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: I've got two topics that I can talk about for the meeting on the 20th. Please let me know which you'd prefer, assuming that you'll go. If no one expresses interest, or won't be able to make it, then I'm not going to bother getting things together. Pick from: * A Field Guide To Perl Command-Line Switches All about how to do magic data manipulation at the command-line with Perl's command-line switches. * Creating a CPAN Module: Case Studies & Dissection You've got a module you want to release to CPAN, but don't know what to do after you've run h2xs. This talk will explore a couple of my different modules, how they're packaged, how I make sure they run cross-platform, and so on. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Tue Sep 30 18:01:46 2003 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Vote for October's talk topic In-Reply-To: <3725.144.208.64.122.1064943417.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> References: <3725.144.208.64.122.1064943417.squirrel@mail.owbn.org> Message-ID: I've got two topics that I can talk about for the meeting on the 20th. Please let me know which you'd prefer, assuming that you'll go. If no one expresses interest, or won't be able to make it, then I'm not going to bother getting things together. Pick from: * A Field Guide To Perl Command-Line Switches All about how to do magic data manipulation at the command-line with Perl's command-line switches. * Creating a CPAN Module: Case Studies & Dissection You've got a module you want to release to CPAN, but don't know what to do after you've run h2xs. This talk will explore a couple of my different modules, how they're packaged, how I make sure they run cross-platform, and so on. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 30 18:27:06 2003 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dealing with normal command line input? In-Reply-To: <200309302203.h8UM3uF26597@tetsuo.mengelt.com> Message-ID: <9B1DA5E2-F39D-11D7-8E73-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 05:51 PM, jason gessner wrote: > [...snip...] > > However, with my own scripts that simply read from > STDIN (like some of my blogging scripts), any backspaces or arrow keys > show > up as control characters. Is this my environment or is there something > simple I am missing? It's probably your environment, but don't fret as this is a very common occurrence. This is where ^H^H^H^H^H jokes [1] come from. And it's also why things like Term::Readkey exist to make things "just work." In the meantime, if you hold down ctrl (or cmd) that should usually work around the control character problem. [1] http://slashdot.org/articles/99/02/10/130212.shtml -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 30 22:43:54 2003 From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner) Date: Mon Aug 2 21:27:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Dealing with normal command line input? In-Reply-To: <9B1DA5E2-F39D-11D7-8E73-0003937562B8@where2getit.com> Message-ID: <200310010256.h912ueF29093@tetsuo.mengelt.com> Yay! I found an excellent .Xdefaults file (albeit with an awful cyan background) that fixed my input problem. Now, back to work! -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org