From rise at knavery.net Mon Nov 5 12:30:28 2001 From: rise at knavery.net (rise) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:37 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? Message-ID: I'd like to propose a boulder.pm meeting later this week or early next, either our semi-traditional "wander around in the woods scaring the wildlife with programming discussions" or the perhaps slightly less intimidating (though only if you don't know how slowly we hike) "meet at a friendly establishment". The former takes advantage of the unreasonably nice weather we're having... I'm happy to do the legwork to get a venue, SoftPro is always willing or we could try a coffee house, bar or restaurant. One point on my agenda[0] is to try and get Damian Conway to do a talk for a us when he swings through Denver on the tour. [0] or perhaps Jim Baker's, but I definitely agree with him. -- Jonathan Conway "Reverse Polish LISP" - for those times Forth rise@knavery.net just isn't on enough crack. From walter at frii.com Mon Nov 5 15:07:50 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:37 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, rise wrote: > I'd like to propose a boulder.pm meeting later this week or early next, > either our semi-traditional "wander around in the woods scaring the > wildlife with programming discussions" or the perhaps slightly less > intimidating (though only if you don't know how slowly we hike) "meet at a > friendly establishment". The former takes advantage of the unreasonably > nice weather we're having... > > I'm happy to do the legwork to get a venue, SoftPro is always willing or > we could try a coffee house, bar or restaurant. One point on my agenda[0] > is to try and get Damian Conway to do a talk for a us when he swings > through Denver on the tour. I vote for either a round of disk golf or an easygoing ramble around some interesting outdoor place at some time on one day or another. Or not. I can be swayed. Walter From nagler at bivio.net Mon Nov 5 15:22:49 2001 From: nagler at bivio.net (Rob Nagler) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:37 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15335.809.94360.318724@jump.bivio.com> > I vote for either a round of disk golf You got me with that one. Time and place? Rob From walter at frii.com Mon Nov 5 16:07:36 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:37 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: <15335.809.94360.318724@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Rob Nagler wrote: > > I vote for either a round of disk golf > > You got me with that one. Time and place? > > Rob Errr. Well, I'm not the resident list expert on this, but I think the "best" course is the one over by the South Boulder rec center and Fairview High School. Time and place? Ha! I vote for today, as soon as anyone can get free. It is TOO nice of a day to fritter the waning afternoon sun in front of a computer. Walter From boulder-pm at jim-baker.com Mon Nov 5 17:06:32 2001 From: boulder-pm at jim-baker.com (Jim Baker) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:37 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mondays or Fridays work for me. I'm also constrained to being somewhere else (around the Pearl St Mall vs the Perl Playground) at 6 PM this Friday, in a more or less sweat-free state :) Disk golf. I remember playing this once or twice in elementary school. Expect high angular and radial errors from me if we do indeed play. Damian Conway. He's currently planning his tour for 2002, with a possible stop in Denver. I personally would like for him to talk about "little languages", which as I understand it, are scoped extensions to the Perl syntax. Here's how you might use it: a typical way of providing for flexible configurations for your favorite framework is to use a multilevel structure, say a list of hashes of hashes, etc. But the syntax of this can get overwhelming to your configuring users (although it provides such nice power as say arbitrary code to build the config data, dumping it out with Data::Dumper, or reflection so you can use regexes, objects, or lexical closures as callbacks). Look at the Tk interface, for example. So you'd like to provide a little language where this complexity is hidden in the syntax sugar. Unfortunately, your stand-alone little language rapidly gets over whelmed, and you wish you had Perl at your disposal. An embedded little language in Perl gets the desired power, while still providing for the hooks. Or something like that. Conway is planning on supporting something like this with Parse::Perl and Parse::FastDescent. So that's my suggestion for a Conway talk. But I'm sure there are other possibilities too, even the crowd-pleasing Superpositions talk. - Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Walter Pienciak Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 1:08 PM To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Subject: Re: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, rise wrote: > I'd like to propose a boulder.pm meeting later this week or early next, > either our semi-traditional "wander around in the woods scaring the > wildlife with programming discussions" or the perhaps slightly less > intimidating (though only if you don't know how slowly we hike) "meet at a > friendly establishment". The former takes advantage of the unreasonably > nice weather we're having... > > I'm happy to do the legwork to get a venue, SoftPro is always willing or > we could try a coffee house, bar or restaurant. One point on my agenda[0] > is to try and get Damian Conway to do a talk for a us when he swings > through Denver on the tour. I vote for either a round of disk golf or an easygoing ramble around some interesting outdoor place at some time on one day or another. Or not. I can be swayed. Walter From boulder-pm at jim-baker.com Mon Nov 5 17:08:58 2001 From: boulder-pm at jim-baker.com (Jim Baker) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Today is definitely a good choice. - Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Walter Pienciak Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:08 PM To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Subject: Re: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Rob Nagler wrote: > > I vote for either a round of disk golf > > You got me with that one. Time and place? > > Rob Errr. Well, I'm not the resident list expert on this, but I think the "best" course is the one over by the South Boulder rec center and Fairview High School. Time and place? Ha! I vote for today, as soon as anyone can get free. It is TOO nice of a day to fritter the waning afternoon sun in front of a computer. Walter From rise at knavery.net Mon Nov 5 16:15:55 2001 From: rise at knavery.net (rise) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Jim Baker wrote: > Mondays or Fridays work for me. I'm also constrained to being somewhere > else (around the Pearl St Mall vs the Perl Playground) at 6 PM this Friday, > in a more or less sweat-free state :) I'm free all this week, but can't really make it this afternoon (sorry Walter). Too many errands to run. > Disk golf. I remember playing this once or twice in elementary school. > Expect high angular and radial errors from me if we do indeed play. This would not be new. -- Jonathan Conway "Reverse Polish LISP" - for those times Forth rise@knavery.net just isn't on enough crack. From walter at frii.com Mon Nov 5 16:16:50 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Jim Baker wrote: > Today is definitely a good choice. > > - Jim Well, this is going to be absolute chaos trying to get people informed. But what the hell. I'm going to be at the South Boulder rec center at 4 PM, ready to play a round. If someone needs a ride over (I'm in Gunbarrel) call me at 303-527-0934 in the next 15-20 minutes. I'll have on a blue baseball hat and a gray fleecy thing. And be carrying orange plastic thingies. I may be a couple minutes late, but *I will be there.* Walter From nagler at bivio.net Mon Nov 5 16:16:32 2001 From: nagler at bivio.net (Rob Nagler) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <15335.809.94360.318724@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: <15335.4032.656458.594391@jump.bivio.com> > Time and place? Ha! I vote for today, as soon as anyone > can get free. It is TOO nice of a day to fritter the waning > afternoon sun in front of a computer. Bad day for me. Next week would be much better. Rob From walter at frii.com Mon Nov 5 16:21:22 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: <15335.4032.656458.594391@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Rob Nagler wrote: > > Time and place? Ha! I vote for today, as soon as anyone > > can get free. It is TOO nice of a day to fritter the waning > > afternoon sun in front of a computer. > > Bad day for me. Next week would be much better. > > Rob Now that I'm thinking about it, there's no way I'm going to call off today's escape from keybord bondage. But next week? Sure. Pick a time/day and let's just do it. Walter From skitt at colorado.edu Mon Nov 5 16:23:03 2001 From: skitt at colorado.edu (Bill Skitt) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? References: <15335.809.94360.318724@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: <001901c16648$6f8748e0$b2228a80@resnet.Colorado.EDU> > > I vote for either a round of disk golf > > You got me with that one. Time and place? > > Rob What's disk golf? Bill Skitt (skitt@colorado.edu) From nagler at bivio.net Mon Nov 5 16:23:54 2001 From: nagler at bivio.net (Rob Nagler) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15335.4474.74885.727165@jump.bivio.com> > closures as callbacks). Look at the Tk interface, for example. Or bOP, which uses little languages extensively, but then you know that already, Jim. ;-) > So you'd like to provide a little language where this complexity is hidden > in the syntax sugar. I'm not convinced syntactic sugar is necessary. Lisp has gotten away without it for almost 50 years. With clever use of AUTOLOAD (see Bivio::UI::ViewLanguage as an example), you get a nice clean language. We use this for testing. Here's an example: use strict; use Bivio::Test; Bivio::Test->unit([ 'Bivio::Type::CreditCardNumber' => [ from_literal => [ ['4222222222222'] => ['4222222222222'], ['5222222222222227'] => ['5222222222222227'], ['342222222222223'] => ['342222222222223'], ], ], ]); > Unfortunately, your stand-alone little language > rapidly gets over whelmed, and you wish you had Perl at your > disposal. Time to refactor! Rob From rise at knavery.net Mon Nov 5 16:48:40 2001 From: rise at knavery.net (rise) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: <001901c16648$6f8748e0$b2228a80@resnet.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Bill Skitt wrote: > What's disk golf? Much like regular golf played with special frisbees (not an absolute requirement). You've got courses with holes (baskets with chains), tees and pars. There are often water hazards etc. as well, though certainly not as much at the South Boulder Rec Center course as at some other. Noticeably more laid back than golf and with a lower minimum investment (got a disc?). -- Jonathan Conway "Reverse Polish LISP" - for those times Forth rise@knavery.net just isn't on enough crack. From boulder-pm at jim-baker.com Mon Nov 5 19:11:25 2001 From: boulder-pm at jim-baker.com (Jim Baker) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: <15335.4474.74885.727165@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: Exactly. One can do this. But this is also a reason many of us like to use Perl instead of Lisp. After all if we did write our code in Lisp, we could use the fact that code is data, and this means we can write powerful macros w/o having a parser. But for some reason (except of course for our Emacs macros) we don't. So why make this compromise? Part of this is that the habits of language can be useful. Larry Wall has opined on this quite a bit. Now I can't make Rob accept the whole argument; he's not exactly a TMTOWTDI partisan ;) But surely there's something to be said that syntax can help us arrive at correct code more easily. Now here's a question for our fellow mongers: Assume my premise that embedded little languages might be useful. What would you like? I could go for a tighter integration with SQL, more so than the awkwardness of DBIx::Recordset or the procedural overhead of DBI. (Yes, you can use maps and hash slices. I do. But.) - Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Rob Nagler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:24 PM To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Subject: RE: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? > closures as callbacks). Look at the Tk interface, for example. Or bOP, which uses little languages extensively, but then you know that already, Jim. ;-) > So you'd like to provide a little language where this complexity is hidden > in the syntax sugar. I'm not convinced syntactic sugar is necessary. Lisp has gotten away without it for almost 50 years. With clever use of AUTOLOAD (see Bivio::UI::ViewLanguage as an example), you get a nice clean language. We use this for testing. Here's an example: use strict; use Bivio::Test; Bivio::Test->unit([ 'Bivio::Type::CreditCardNumber' => [ from_literal => [ ['4222222222222'] => ['4222222222222'], ['5222222222222227'] => ['5222222222222227'], ['342222222222223'] => ['342222222222223'], ], ], ]); > Unfortunately, your stand-alone little language > rapidly gets over whelmed, and you wish you had Perl at your > disposal. Time to refactor! Rob From walter at frii.com Mon Nov 5 18:13:46 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Walter Pienciak wrote: > Now that I'm thinking about it, there's no way I'm going to > call off today's escape from keybord bondage. It was a good command decision. I snagged Alison as she got home and we had a nice time. No Perl talk, though; just boys and school. Walter From boulder-pm at jim-baker.com Mon Nov 5 19:18:39 2001 From: boulder-pm at jim-baker.com (Jim Baker) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I went over there, but I discovered something: it's a nice park and it's reasonably big. People were playing disc golf, but none of them looked like Walter. Anyway, it was a nice walk around the lake. - Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-boulder-pm-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Walter Pienciak Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 4:14 PM To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Subject: Re: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Walter Pienciak wrote: > Now that I'm thinking about it, there's no way I'm going to > call off today's escape from keybord bondage. It was a good command decision. I snagged Alison as she got home and we had a nice time. No Perl talk, though; just boys and school. Walter From nagler at bivio.net Mon Nov 5 18:42:51 2001 From: nagler at bivio.net (Rob Nagler) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <15335.4032.656458.594391@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: <15335.12811.669435.248587@jump.bivio.com> > Sure. Pick a time/day and let's just do it. Monday 16:30? Playing in the dark is fun, but not for newbies. ;) Meet at the rec center? I don't know where the first hole is. Rob From rise at knavery.net Tue Nov 6 00:30:54 2001 From: rise at knavery.net (rise) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: <15335.12811.669435.248587@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Rob Nagler wrote: > Monday 16:30? Playing in the dark is fun, but not for newbies. ;) Works fine for me except that we might want to aim more for 16:00 since sunset is at 16:47 MST that day according to the USNO (who aren't taking mountains into account). > Meet at the rec center? I don't know where the first hole is. Benches out front? -- Jonathan Conway "Reverse Polish LISP" - for those times Forth rise@knavery.net just isn't on enough crack. From walter at frii.com Tue Nov 6 09:26:28 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Jim Baker wrote: > I went over there, but I discovered something: it's a nice park and it's > reasonably big. People were playing disc golf, but none of them looked like > Walter. Anyway, it was a nice walk around the lake. > > - Jim Darn. I didn't see anyone who looked like Jim, either. But it was a beautiful afternoon, wasn't it? Walter From nagler at bivio.net Tue Nov 6 09:48:54 2001 From: nagler at bivio.net (Rob Nagler) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Gathering anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <15335.12811.669435.248587@jump.bivio.com> Message-ID: <15336.1638.791254.39899@jump.bivio.com> > Works fine for me except that we might want to aim more for 16:00 Monday 16:00 is fine with me. > Benches out front? Wilco. Rob From walter at frii.com Fri Nov 9 14:33:04 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Forwarded: "Non-member submission" fromlynn.danielson@clue.denver.co.us Message-ID: Sender: lynnd@ihs.com Message-ID: <3BEC1913.18AC43AF@clue.denver.co.us> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:57:39 -0700 From: Lynn Danielson Organization: Colorado Linux Users & Enthusiast X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 i86pc) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Subject: piped output filehandle in loop problem References: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130AB7FC6D@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean I want to loop through a directory of pdf files, run a shell command (pdfinfo) on each file, and grep the command output to see whether the pdf file is encrypted. Derek Noonan's pdfinfo command produces 11 lines of output like the following: Title: Subject: Keywords: Author: Marion Wilkinson Creator: C:MARGIEAMDTS¦88.AM1 Producer: PDF Prep Tool (www.glance.ch) CreationDate: 19970701095714 ModDate: 20011108101825 Pages: 1 Encrypted: no Linearized: yes The 10th line of output specifies if the file is encrypted. So, I tried this ... #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w $pdfdir = "/path/to/pdf/files"; opendir(INPUT, $pdfdir) or die "Couldn't open directory: $pdfdir"; while (defined($file = readdir(INPUT))) { next if $file =~ /^\.\.?$/; # skip . and .. open(PDFINFO, "pdfinfo $inputdir/$file |") or die "Can't fork: $!"; print "$file is encrypted\n" if ( ()[9] =~ m/ yes / ); close(PDFINFO); } closedir(INPUT); It works for the first file, but every iteration thereafter gives me an "uninitialized value in pattern match" error. Why? Suggestions? Thanks, Lynn Danielson From walter at frii.com Fri Nov 9 14:43:12 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Forwarded: "Non-member submission" fromlynn.danielson@clue.denver.co.us In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think you can do this straightforwardly like: use PDF; my $pdf = PDF->new($filename); &do_your_thing if ($pdf->IscryptPDF); I know the documentation says IscryptedPDF, but if you look at the actual code (in PDF::Parse.pm), the form is IscryptPDF: =pod =head2 IscryptPDF Returns true if the PDF contains a crypt object. This indicates that the data of the PDF-File is encrypted. In this case, not all function work as expected. =cut sub IscryptPDF { return ($_[0]->{Crypt_Object} != undef) ; } Walter From myke at komar.org Sat Nov 10 21:09:59 2001 From: myke at komar.org (Myke Komarnitsky) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] PerlMagick Message-ID: <1005448205.1500.8.camel@dhcppc3> Has anyone had luck installing this? the directions, eg "Next, edit Makefile.PL and change LIBS and INC to include the appropriate path information to the required libMagick library. You will also need paths to JPEG, PNG, TIFF, etc. libraries if they were included with your installed version of ImageMagick." aren't descriptive... to the extent that I'm almost certain that the correct paths are in there, /usr/local/lib and /usr/local/include ... TIA, Myke From rise at knavery.net Sun Nov 11 14:57:25 2001 From: rise at knavery.net (rise) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Error/Exception module recommendations? Message-ID: I'm currently using Error.pm which gets the job done, but it's got a few design points which annoy me. Anyone have a favorite exception handling module they'd like to recommend? Bonus points for a design more oriented towards gracefully handling external (network/DB/filesystem) resource errors. -- Jonathan Conway "Reverse Polish LISP" - for those times Forth rise@knavery.net just isn't on enough crack. From rise at knavery.net Sun Nov 11 14:59:29 2001 From: rise at knavery.net (rise) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Disc Monday Message-ID: Anyone who wants me to bring extra disc golf discs drop me a line. I've got a decent range of extras from low-spin, low-speed to Cheetahs and Whippets. -- Jonathan Conway "Reverse Polish LISP" - for those times Forth rise@knavery.net just isn't on enough crack. From nagler at bivio.net Sun Nov 11 15:52:03 2001 From: nagler at bivio.net (Rob Nagler) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Error/Exception module recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15342.62211.952135.842859@jump.bivio.com> > Anyone have a favorite exception handling module they'd like to > recommend? Bivio::Die as a part of bOP, e.g my($die) = Bivio::Die->catch(code or sub); if ($die) { process $die which has all sorts of state info including stack. } > Bonus points for a design more oriented towards > gracefully handling external (network/DB/filesystem) resource > errors. We use it for this type of stuff. Here's a snippet from Bivio::Biz::FormModel (which wraps HTTP forms into objects and deals with all kinds of stuff like uniqueness constraint violations automatically): # Catch errors and rethrow unless we can process my($res); my($die) = Bivio::Die->catch(sub { $res = $self->execute_ok($form_button);}); if ($die) { if ($die->get('code')== Bivio::DieCode->DB_CONSTRAINT) { # Type errors are "normal" _apply_type_error($self, $die); } else { $die->throw_die(); # DOES NOT RETURN } } Download at http://www.bivio.net/hm/download-bOP or if you'd like to browse the documentation: http://www.bivio.net/f/bOP/html/index.html Rob From walter at frii.com Mon Nov 12 12:54:58 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:38 2004 Subject: [boulder.pm] Disc Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, rise wrote: > Anyone who wants me to bring extra disc golf discs drop me a line. I've > got a decent range of extras from low-spin, low-speed to Cheetahs and > Whippets. Hey, stop this uber-diskgeek talk! Disc golf is simple: just fling that hunk of plastic. Walter "I done flung that thang"