From steve-pmbelfast at blackstar.co.uk Mon Jul 2 05:55:57 2001 From: steve-pmbelfast at blackstar.co.uk (Steve Rushe) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: What are we going to do with the website? Message-ID: <20010702115557.A8861@blackstar.co.uk> lo again So what will we do with the website? It looks fairly tatty at the mo, so I reckon we need to do sommat nice with it. So what should we put on it? I know we had this discussion last week, but we've done nothing since then so I'm trying to move things along! We obviously need to have details of things we're doing, things we've done, when our meetings are, who we are, how to get in touch with us etc., but what else comes to mind? I favour using Template::Toolkit to do all this, as well as a little bit of database, just so I can learn more about TT! So what does everyone think? Steve From andrew-perlmongers at rivendale.net Mon Jul 2 09:00:20 2001 From: andrew-perlmongers at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: What are we going to do with the website? In-Reply-To: <20010702115557.A8861@blackstar.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010702150020.A10775@soto.kasei.com> On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:55:57AM +0100, Steve Rushe wrote: > lo again > > So what will we do with the website? It looks fairly tatty at the mo, so > I reckon we need to do sommat nice with it. So what should we put on it? > I know we had this discussion last week, but we've done nothing since > then so I'm trying to move things along! > > We obviously need to have details of things we're doing, things we've > done, when our meetings are, who we are, how to get in touch with us > etc., but what else comes to mind? That all sounds good, start there, we can always add stuff later. We can link to or include reports of talks and stuff as well. > I favour using Template::Toolkit to do all this, as well as a little bit > of database, just so I can learn more about TT! Yeah I think we should use TT. > So what does everyone think? I think it looks pants too, but then dammit Jim! I'm a programmer not a designer. I know next to nothing about making it "pretty", so I'll stay out of that discussion. Cheers Andrew From schwern at pobox.com Mon Jul 2 12:39:26 2001 From: schwern at pobox.com (schwern@pobox.com) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: What are we going to do with the website? In-Reply-To: <20010702150020.A10775@soto.kasei.com>; from andrew-perlmongers@rivendale.net on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 03:00:20PM +0100 References: <20010702115557.A8861@blackstar.co.uk> <20010702150020.A10775@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20010702133926.F27988@magnonel.guild.net> On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 03:00:20PM +0100, Andrew Wilson wrote: > I think it looks pants too I don't know how we ever won the revolution seeing as how your insult technology is far superior to ours. ;) -- Michael G Schwern http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/ Perl6 Quality Assurance Kwalitee Is Job One From mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk Mon Jul 2 14:45:43 2001 From: mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk (Stray Toaster) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: resignation of website designing comittee Message-ID: <20010702204543.A1191@tux.blackstar.co.uk> Hah. Now I huff. Feel free to carry on! m. From andrew at rivendale.net Mon Jul 2 18:09:32 2001 From: andrew at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: resignation of website designing comittee In-Reply-To: <20010702204543.A1191@tux.blackstar.co.uk>; from mwk@stray-toaster.co.uk on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:45:43PM +0100 References: <20010702204543.A1191@tux.blackstar.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010703000932.A1014@gandalf> Hi On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:45:43PM +0100, Stray Toaster wrote: > Hah. > > Now I huff. > > Feel free to carry on! Of course you have good reason to huff. After all you've been wonderfully efficient at keeping it up to date. mumble, slides, mumble mumble, be up tonight mumble mumble as soon as I get home mumble mumble etc. cheers Andrew -- Yet Another Andy W From russell at futureless.org Thu Jul 5 11:40:24 2001 From: russell at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: [BLUG] is it friday already...? In-Reply-To: <20010705173613.D15258@blackstar.co.uk>; from duggie@blackstar.co.uk on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 05:36:13PM +0100 References: <20010705153742.D7163@futureless.org> <20010705173613.D15258@blackstar.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010705164024.A8902@futureless.org> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 05:36:13PM +0100, duggie@blackstar.co.uk wrote: > On (05/07/01 15:37), Russell Matbouli wrote: > > Belfast.pm'ers also welcome. (Any PMers not on this list?) > > I'm not on the list, so I guess I won't know to come along! Ahem. yes. DAMN YOUR INFERNAL LOGIC! The question was more aimed at whoever takes care of the Belfast.pm list really, but I don't know who that is... Okay, CCing them on this one. Anyone want to go to the pub? I'm heading down to the Globe now to celebrate my penultimate day of placement studentness. If it doesn't suit, we could go out somewhere tomorrow night for a sociable one... Russell -- Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20010705/ce2c698e/attachment.bin From steve at unite.net Tue Jul 10 04:29:18 2001 From: steve at unite.net (Stephen Foy) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Hello there Message-ID: <003f01c10922$cb33eb40$e3a003d4@unite.net> Hi all, I just joined the list, just making myself known. Steve... From tony at kasei.com Tue Jul 10 04:41:11 2001 From: tony at kasei.com (Tony Bowden) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Hello there In-Reply-To: <003f01c10922$cb33eb40$e3a003d4@unite.net>; from steve@unite.net on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 10:29:18AM +0100 References: <003f01c10922$cb33eb40$e3a003d4@unite.net> Message-ID: <20010710104111.A15523@blackstar.co.uk> On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 10:29:18AM +0100, Stephen Foy wrote: > I just joined the list, just making myself known. No you're not - you're announcing your presence. You still haven't made yourself known ;) Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20010710/1b76813a/attachment.bin From mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk Fri Jul 20 03:47:23 2001 From: mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk (Stray Toaster) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: meeting postponement sorta idea Message-ID: <20010720094723.B17849@tux.blackstar.co.uk> Yo. I move to propose to delay the meeting next week for a bit. Till when, I know not. Why? Well, a large part of the attendees will not be attendees. Due to be in such far flung places as Egypt, North Carolina, and, erm, Mallusk. Unless there is any descension (sic), I think this will happen. boo. m. From swm at swmcc.com Fri Jul 20 10:34:05 2001 From: swm at swmcc.com (Stephen McCullough) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: meeting postponement sorta idea In-Reply-To: <20010720094723.B17849@tux.blackstar.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010720163405.A9271@gandalf> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 09:47:23AM +0100, Stray Toaster wrote: > Yo. > > I move to propose to delay the meeting next week for a bit. Till when, I know not. Why? > Well, a large part of the attendees will not be attendees. Due to be in such far flung > places as Egypt, North Carolina, and, erm, Mallusk. > > Unless there is any descension (sic), I think this will happen. Okay, so when will the next one be then? Who are the lucky feckers going to Egypt and North Carolina? Thanks -- Stephen McCullough http://www.swmcc.com From tony at kasei.com Sun Jul 22 18:07:26 2001 From: tony at kasei.com (Tony Bowden) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: meeting postponement sorta idea In-Reply-To: <20010720163405.A9271@gandalf>; from swm@swmcc.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:34:05PM +0100 References: <20010720094723.B17849@tux.blackstar.co.uk> <20010720163405.A9271@gandalf> Message-ID: <20010723000726.B2670@blackstar.co.uk> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:34:05PM +0100, Stephen McCullough wrote: > Who are the lucky feckers going to Egypt and North Carolina? Me, Marty and Karen are currently in NC, at the XPUniverse conference... Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20010723/8d803bc1/attachment.bin From andrew at mcfarland.co.uk Mon Jul 23 12:03:07 2001 From: andrew at mcfarland.co.uk (Andrew McFarland) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Template Toolkit and databases Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1> I'm about to build a database to work in conjunction with Template Toolkit to output a set of static HTML pages. All the pages will have a standard header, some content, and then a standard footer. I'm unsure of the best way of putting the content into the database. At the moment it could conceivably be any HTML that can legally go in the body of an HTML 4.01 strict document. Should I just put all the content - tags and all - into one field in the database? I want to have the content completely separate from the layout, but I also want to be as flexible and as future proof as possible. Any thoughts anyone? Andrew -- AA McFarland http://www.mcfarland.co.uk/andrew/ The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want Psalm 23:1 From mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk Mon Jul 23 12:14:39 2001 From: mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk (Stray Toaster) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Template Toolkit and databases In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1>; from Andrew McFarland on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 06:03:07PM +0100 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20010723181439.C3501@tux.blackstar.co.uk> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 06:03:07PM +0100, Andrew McFarland wrote: > I'm about to build a database to work in conjunction with Template Toolkit > to output a set of static HTML pages. All the pages will have a standard > header, some content, and then a standard footer. > > I'm unsure of the best way of putting the content into the database. At the > moment it could conceivably be any HTML that can legally go in the body of > an HTML 4.01 strict document. Should I just put all the content - tags and > all - into one field in the database? > > I want to have the content completely separate from the layout, but I also > want to be as flexible and as future proof as possible. Any thoughts anyone? > > Andrew > Ah, but here is where I put in my love of the CGI object..... Go on, use the CGI object. It rules. I wouldn't put the content into the database.... I am tired, else I would speak more on it.....and might later on! m. > -- > AA McFarland http://www.mcfarland.co.uk/andrew/ > The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want > Psalm 23:1 > What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Matthew 26:16 From andrew at mcfarland.co.uk Mon Jul 23 12:19:23 2001 From: andrew at mcfarland.co.uk (Andrew McFarland) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Template Toolkit and databases In-Reply-To: <20010723181439.C3501@tux.blackstar.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723181843.009d1310@127.0.0.1> At 18:14 23/07/01 +0100, Stray Toaster wrote: >I am tired, else I would speak more on it.....and might later on! Please do - it sounds interesting... Andrew -- AA McFarland http://www.mcfarland.co.uk/andrew/ The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want Psalm 23:1 From andrew-belfastpm at rivendale.net Mon Jul 23 12:24:05 2001 From: andrew-belfastpm at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Template Toolkit and databases In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20010723182405.B27813@soto.kasei.com> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 06:03:07PM +0100, Andrew McFarland wrote: > I'm unsure of the best way of putting the content into the database. At the > moment it could conceivably be any HTML that can legally go in the body of > an HTML 4.01 strict document. Should I just put all the content - tags and > all - into one field in the database? > > I want to have the content completely separate from the layout, but I also > want to be as flexible and as future proof as possible. Any thoughts anyone? Hi Andrew Much as I hate to agree with Marc ;-), I wouldn't put HTML in the database either if I could avoid it. I would try to do as much as possible with templates, mop up the rest with CGI.pm and just store plain text in the database. If you actually store the markup (HTML) with the data, it makes it much harder to maintain both. Just my GBP 0.02 cheers Andrew -- Yet another Andy W From Glenn.Russell at spirent.com Mon Jul 23 12:31:15 2001 From: Glenn.Russell at spirent.com (Russell, Glenn) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Template Toolkit and databases Message-ID: <1D9854D3D3E3D311A71F009027DC8A573C87EA@GOLDFINGER> Hey Andrew, Flexible and futureproof?. XML and XSL will give you that, as well as seperation of content and presentation, thus your storage options greatly increase Glenn. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew McFarland [mailto:andrew@mcfarland.co.uk] Sent: 23 July 2001 18:03 To: belfast-pm@pm.org Subject: Template Toolkit and databases I'm about to build a database to work in conjunction with Template Toolkit to output a set of static HTML pages. All the pages will have a standard header, some content, and then a standard footer. I'm unsure of the best way of putting the content into the database. At the moment it could conceivably be any HTML that can legally go in the body of an HTML 4.01 strict document. Should I just put all the content - tags and all - into one field in the database? I want to have the content completely separate from the layout, but I also want to be as flexible and as future proof as possible. Any thoughts anyone? Andrew -- AA McFarland http://www.mcfarland.co.uk/andrew/ The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want Psalm 23:1 From andrew at mcfarland.co.uk Mon Jul 23 13:01:50 2001 From: andrew at mcfarland.co.uk (Andrew McFarland) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Template Toolkit and databases In-Reply-To: <20010723182405.B27813@soto.kasei.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723184251.00a14ec0@127.0.0.1> >Much as I hate to agree with Marc ;-), I wouldn't put HTML in the database >either if I could avoid it. > >I would try to do as much as possible with templates, mop up the rest with >CGI.pm >and just store plain text in the database. If you actually store the markup >(HTML) with the data, it makes it much harder to maintain both. That's pretty much what I thought. However, the structure of the content can be quite arbitrary, and vanilla HTML would probably be the easiest way for other people (eg the assistant webmaster) to add content. At least I think it would. A concrete example may help. Here is a pseudo TT template for what I want to do: [% title %] [% metas %] [% stylesheet %] [% javascript %] [% base %] [% pre_content %] [% content %] [% post_content %] [% navigation %] [% author_details %] (This is slightly expanded on what I planned earlier) Only the title, stylesheet, and content will always be there. TT is probably overkill for this, but I will use some of it's more elaborate features in the future. If I wanted to store the content using XSL and XML (as Glenn suggested) how would I approach that? Can anyone recommend some good URLs for this sort of thing? Seeing some actual examples of code and database contents would be very helpful. Andrew -- AA McFarland http://www.mcfarland.co.uk/andrew/ The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want Psalm 23:1 From andrew at mcfarland.co.uk Mon Jul 23 13:13:47 2001 From: andrew at mcfarland.co.uk (Andrew McFarland) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Template Toolkit and databases In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723184251.00a14ec0@127.0.0.1> References: <20010723182405.B27813@soto.kasei.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010723180035.00a1ed40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723191108.00a207f0@127.0.0.1> At 19:01 23/07/01 +0100, Andrew McFarland wrote: >[% title %] [% metas %] [% stylesheet %] [% javascript %] [% base %] [% >pre_content %] [% content %] [% post_content %] [% navigation %] [% >author_details %] Should have has some other bits in it, but Eudora seems to have eaten them. >html< >head< [% title %] [% metas %] [% stylesheet %] [% javascript %] [% base %] >\head< >body< [% pre_content %] [% content %] [% post_content %] [% navigation %] [% author_details %] >\body< >\html< Is more what I meant... -- AA McFarland http://www.mcfarland.co.uk/andrew/ The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want Psalm 23:1 From russell at futureless.org Wed Jul 25 15:02:42 2001 From: russell at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: meeting postponement sorta idea In-Reply-To: <20010720163405.A9271@gandalf> References: <20010720094723.B17849@tux.blackstar.co.uk> <20010720163405.A9271@gandalf> Message-ID: <20010725200242.A4973@matbouli.org> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:34:05PM +0100, Stephen McCullough wrote: > Who are the lucky feckers going to Egypt and North Carolina? I would be the one in the former category. The weather is hot and I'm on the lookout for toy camels to bring back as (Perl oriented) souvenirs. Russell, chilling out in aircon on holiday :) -- Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20010725/c7089bbb/attachment.bin From swm at swmcc.com Thu Jul 26 05:17:59 2001 From: swm at swmcc.com (Stephen McCullough) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: meeting postponement sorta idea In-Reply-To: <20010725200242.A4973@matbouli.org> Message-ID: <20010726111759.A24843@gandalf> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:02:42PM +0000, Russell Matbouli wrote: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:34:05PM +0100, Stephen McCullough wrote: > > Who are the lucky feckers going to Egypt and North Carolina? > > I would be the one in the former category. The weather is hot and I'm on > the lookout for toy camels to bring back as (Perl oriented) souvenirs. So Tony, Karen and Marty are in NC, Russell is in Egypt and Stephen is away to Derry!! -- Stephen McCullough http://www.swmcc.com From steve-pmbelfast at blackstar.co.uk Thu Jul 26 05:59:58 2001 From: steve-pmbelfast at blackstar.co.uk (Steve Rushe) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Another template toolkit question Message-ID: <20010726115958.A5263@blackstar.co.uk> I've got another TT question for you people out there. I'd like to use ttree to create a page with links to pages on various authors, as well as the pages for each author. Rather than have a template file for each author page, I'd like to have the data on the authors stored somewhere and just have the pages generated using that data. The index page is easy, a simple iteration over the author list creating links, but each author page is more awkward. I'd like a way to say use template "foo" with the following data and put it in file "bar", so I could just iterate over the list and specify where I want each file to go. Is this possible using ttree or will I have to write my own wee script to do this using the process call within TT? Enough of this rambling, I'm back to work Steve From mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk Thu Jul 26 06:13:41 2001 From: mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk (Stray Toaster) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Another template toolkit question In-Reply-To: <20010726115958.A5263@blackstar.co.uk>; from Steve Rushe on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:59:58AM +0100 References: <20010726115958.A5263@blackstar.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010726121341.H29728@tux.blackstar.co.uk> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:59:58AM +0100, Steve Rushe wrote: > Enough of this rambling, I'm back to work > Steve yeah, get back to work. m. From mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk Thu Jul 26 06:23:01 2001 From: mwk at stray-toaster.co.uk (Stray Toaster) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:08 2004 Subject: Another template toolkit question In-Reply-To: <20010726121341.H29728@tux.blackstar.co.uk>; from Stray Toaster on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:13:41PM +0100 References: <20010726115958.A5263@blackstar.co.uk> <20010726121341.H29728@tux.blackstar.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010726122301.I29728@tux.blackstar.co.uk> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:13:41PM +0100, Stray Toaster wrote: > On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:59:58AM +0100, Steve Rushe wrote: > > Enough of this rambling, I'm back to work > > Steve > > yeah, get back to work. > > m. Sorry, the bit that read '...and get to reviewing my code...' seems to have been eaten by the great mutt message eating monster. so I say again, get to reviewing my code. m.