Hi Nigel, There is a Bath Geek social at the Raven organised by the guys on underscore (an essential list to join if you're in the area). http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/443313/ I quite like the hobgoblin, the Raven seems popular with the guys on the underscore list A. -- http://www.aarontrevena.co.uk LAMP System Integration, Development and Hosting