dha is the catalog!

[Mike South]

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 3:04 AM, Brian Fraser <fraserbn at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:08 AM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> ...

> plan 9 is just the most famous worst film ever. it was voted that some
>> years ago so it clings to that title. the director (ed wood) was a loon and
>> transvestite among other things (like a bad director).
>
>
> So.. apparently being a transvestite is not only a bad thing, but just as
> bad as being a loon. What do you know. uri--, this is not acceptable
> behavior.
>

I really think it would be preferable if people would address these things
off-list first--a polite note to the individual like this:

"Uri,

your comment: [include text of comment], could be taken to be disparaging
to transvestites, who are a part of the queer universe and subject to
significant persecution in various places.  It might be good if you would
post a clarification that you weren't intending this as an attack or smear
against transvestites, because we don't want transvestites or anyone in the
greater queer community to feel unwelcome."

Or, just as another example:

"Brian,

I noted that in your recent rebuke of Uri you referred to Uri as saying
that being transvestite is "as bad as" being a loon.  As I'm sure you know,
'loon' can be taken to be a pejorative against the mentally ill.  The
mentally ill are subject to severe persecution in various places, and you
sticking up for transvestites while not just ignoring but callously
reinforcing the stigma against the mentally ill would be a double insult to
anyone on the list who is either themselves suffering through mental
illness or has a loved one who is.  It might be good if you post a
clarification that you weren't intending this as an attack or smear against
the mentally ill, because otherwise those on the list that are mentally ill
might feel unwelcome.."

or even [seriously, I think this could be a legitimate concern with what I
wrote above when re-reading],

"Mike,

why did you say 'suffering from' mental illness?  Why not 'dealing with' or
'surviving'?  People with mental illness are very likely tired of phrasing
that invokes pity rather than recognizing and validating their efforts at
surviving a serious challenge that very few (if any) of the non-mentally
ill have a tiny inkling of understanding about."


In fact, "loon" can be meant in a somewhat affectionate way, and if that is
the way that Uri meant it (which you can't tell from text), it is not
necessarily bad to have transvestite juxtaposed to it.

I don't know Uri's country/culture of origin, or his native language.
 Transvestitism may be viewed as a mere curiosity where he is from rather
than something to be violently persecuted as it is in other places.

We have people in this community from all over the world, from different
cultures and backgrounds.  If we find something said on-list to be
potentially offensive to another member of the community, let's all start
taking that directly to the person that posted it, off list.  Politely
explain that what they said could be seen as an attack by some members of
our community, and let them know that they might want to post an apology or
a clarification.

It's much smoother to resolve these things this way--the person who made
the post can then issue a one liner like:

"it has been brought to my attention that this comment I made earlier
[insert comment] could be seen as an attack against the [x] community.
 That was not my intention, and I apologize if to anyone who was offended
if it was taken that way."

rather than having a defensive reaction triggered because of a public
attack.

TL;DR :

Whenever possible, assume innocent miscommunication. Attempt to resolve
off-list first.

mike, waiting expectantly for a note like:

"Mike,

I noticed in your rebuke of Brian's rebuke of Uri, you did it on the list.
 I thought the whole point of what you were saying was that you should make
these comments in private and give the person involved a chance to
apologize on list without first publicly shaming them."


Sorry about that.  I'll try to do better in the future.
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