From grant at mclean.net.nz Sun Jun 11 14:28:56 2017 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:28:56 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meeting this Tuesday Message-ID: <1497216536.4453.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Hi Mongers The June meeting of Wellington Perl Mongers is on this Tuesday ("tomorrow" as I write this). A while ago I read a comment along the lines of "in Perl, curly braces have nine different meanings". Whilst this particular comment was probably just a throwaway line I thought it would be an interesting topic to explore. So this month I'm planning to do a talk entitled "What are braces used for in Perl?". So bring along your braces questions and also see if you can uncover some uses that I've missed. There will be time to fit in another talk so let me know if you'd like to speak. 6:00pm Tuesday 9th May 2017 Level 3, Catalyst House 150 Willis Street Wellington http://wellington.pm.org/ See you there Grant From grant at mclean.net.nz Sun Jun 11 14:47:45 2017 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:47:45 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meeting this Tuesday In-Reply-To: <1497216536.4453.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> References: <1497216536.4453.12.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Message-ID: <1497217665.4453.14.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Oops, the date for tomorrow's meeting is obviously June 13th. Cheers Grant On Mon, 2017-06-12 at 09:28 +1200, Grant McLean wrote: > Hi Mongers > > The June meeting of Wellington Perl Mongers is on this Tuesday > ("tomorrow" as I write this). > > A while ago I read a comment along the lines of "in Perl, curly braces > have nine different meanings". Whilst this particular comment was > probably just a throwaway line I thought it would be an interesting > topic to explore. So this month I'm planning to do a talk entitled > "What are braces used for in Perl?". So bring along your braces > questions and also see if you can uncover some uses that I've missed. > > There will be time to fit in another talk so let me know if you'd like > to speak. > > 6:00pm Tuesday 9th May 2017 <<< wrong date > Level 3, Catalyst House > 150 Willis Street > Wellington > http://wellington.pm.org/ > > See you there > Grant > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm From grant at mclean.net.nz Tue Jun 13 03:08:38 2017 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 22:08:38 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Roundup of tonight's meeting Message-ID: <1497348518.5628.7.camel@mclean.net.nz> Hi Mongers Thanks to everyone who turned up to tonight and contributed to a lively session. ?The slides from my talk are up on the web site now: ? ??http://wellington.pm.org/archive/ Sam Crawley has offered to talk at the July meeting about the game he's developing in Perl. ?Florent is going to be away for a couple of months but when he get's back he's going to be all fired up to talk about Continuous Deployment. ?And with encouragement, I'm sure Peter will do a talk one day about his AI experiences. Cheers Grant From perlmonger at pck.co.nz Fri Jun 23 02:35:56 2017 From: perlmonger at pck.co.nz (Peter Kelly) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:35:56 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room Message-ID: Hi mongers, Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself reading through http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 which talks about integrated debugging in an IDE. I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre reasons, such as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor on my hardware. I use Notepad++, which highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger integration. I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be the answer to the maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven it yet for being a dog more than a decade ago. Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity on the IRC archives, or mailing list, and it won't compile from CPAN. I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list message of Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:27:27 Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a screen-shot of their IDE? On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise (deep-copy) an array of hashes? Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kentfredric at gmail.com Fri Jun 23 02:52:10 2017 From: kentfredric at gmail.com (Kent Fredric) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:52:10 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: > I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre reasons, such > as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor on my hardware. I use > Notepad++, which highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable > auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger integration. I'm on "team editor, not IDE", there has to be at least one of us in every such editor war :). My experience of course is relevant mostly to me, but I find myself more productive with spawning dozens of vim instances than I've ever been with an IDE. Additionally, I tend to find code written with an IDE becomes harder to maintain, as the spartanism and difficulty of keeping yourself tied to an editor instead of an IDE forces you to think more carefully about your choices, and to keep things simple. That, and the frequency of needing a debugger is very rare, most problems where people might reach for a debugger tend to be better targeted with tests, or ye-olde "debugging with print statements". And so, for the rare cases I need an interactive debugger, the standard perl debugger is enough. The overhead of integrating it into a full IDE is just not worth it to me for daily work. Then again, I'm the only person I know who can survive clojure without a REPL-driven integration. The boot time is tragic though :/ . > On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise (deep-copy) an array of hashes? - https://metacpan.org/pod/Clone - https://metacpan.org/pod/Clone::PP And there's a variation on this hidden in CPAN::Meta::Converter that squishes out objects in the middle, which the code for might be interesting to read: https://metacpan.org/source/DAGOLDEN/CPAN-Meta-2.150010/lib/CPAN/Meta/Converter.pm#L46-76 Clone::PP has a lot of extra logic because it tries harder to preserve a lot of other uncommon types of data. -- Kent KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL From dan.horne at redbone.co.nz Fri Jun 23 09:37:55 2017 From: dan.horne at redbone.co.nz (Dan Horne) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 04:37:55 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm one of those rare people who prefers an IDE. At my current workplace I use Notepad++, but that's because I'm not allowed to install software myself, and development isn't my primary job anymore. I love Komodo and the debugger. Stepping through code, setting breakpoints and inspecting variables is much more preferable to the way I work than scattering print statements. I have identified bugs in CPAN modules because I step through all code, and not having to sprinkle print in other's code is a bonus. The downsides: it's not cheap. ActiveState keeps changing the UI and this throws me with each update. Once I find a way of navigating and working I don't want to change. I've actually downgraded to v7 because that's the UI I prefer and I see no reason to upgrade again. The upsides for me, besides the debugger integration. It's multi-language, multi-platform (I use Linux, Mac and Windows) and I can add macros that can be invoked with keystrokes such as formatting my code with Perl Tidy. It integrates with source control, can save remotely (via SSH), identifies syntax errors in real time. As I said, I prefer to use an old version, but there are a host of newer features in the latest version ( https://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide/features) I won't include screenshots - you see them in the ActiveState site, and you can download a trial from there. Dan P.S. On a side note, I used Xarka's OptiPerl 15 years ago when I was working in the UK. It's Windows only, and I doubt it's been updated since then. But it will have all the features you'd probably ever want, including realtime syntax checking, and debugging. Plus it's only US$39 for a personal licence. http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: > Hi mongers, > > Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? > > But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself reading through > http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 which talks about integrated > debugging in an IDE. > > I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre reasons, such > as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor on my hardware. I use > Notepad++, which highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable > auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger integration. > > I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be the answer to the > maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven it yet for being a dog more than a > decade ago. > > Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity on the IRC > archives, or mailing list, and it won't compile from CPAN. > > I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list message of Tue, 16 > Jun 2009 14:27:27 > > Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a screen-shot of their > IDE? > > On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise (deep-copy) an > array of hashes? > > Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florent.mara at nzregen.co.nz Fri Jun 23 16:25:47 2017 From: florent.mara at nzregen.co.nz (Florent Mara) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:25:47 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: After Komodo and Kate, I am now using Sublime. Komodo does a lot but changes regularly and one of the updates broke the mini-map so I moved onto Kate and never looked back. Kate / Sublime are 'powerful text editors' for me. Probably not too dissimilar to notepad++. Sublime seems to be very configurable - providing you have the time - and has Perl specific plugins available. IntelliJ is used quite a lot around me for Perl or others. On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Dan Horne wrote: > I'm one of those rare people who prefers an IDE. At my current workplace I > use Notepad++, but that's because I'm not allowed to install software > myself, and development isn't my primary job anymore. I love Komodo and the > debugger. Stepping through code, setting breakpoints and inspecting > variables is much more preferable to the way I work than scattering print > statements. I have identified bugs in CPAN modules because I step through > all code, and not having to sprinkle print in other's code is a bonus. > > The downsides: it's not cheap. ActiveState keeps changing the UI and this > throws me with each update. Once I find a way of navigating and working I > don't want to change. I've actually downgraded to v7 because that's the UI > I prefer and I see no reason to upgrade again. > > The upsides for me, besides the debugger integration. It's multi-language, > multi-platform (I use Linux, Mac and Windows) and I can add macros that can > be invoked with keystrokes such as formatting my code with Perl Tidy. It > integrates with source control, can save remotely (via SSH), identifies > syntax errors in real time. As I said, I prefer to use an old version, but > there are a host of newer features in the latest version ( > https://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide/features) > > I won't include screenshots - you see them in the ActiveState site, and > you can download a trial from there. > > Dan > > P.S. On a side note, I used Xarka's OptiPerl 15 years ago when I was > working in the UK. It's Windows only, and I doubt it's been updated since > then. But it will have all the features you'd probably ever want, including > realtime syntax checking, and debugging. Plus it's only US$39 for a > personal licence. http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html > > > > On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: > >> Hi mongers, >> >> Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? >> >> But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself reading through >> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 which talks about integrated >> debugging in an IDE. >> >> I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre reasons, >> such as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor on my hardware. I >> use Notepad++, which highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable >> auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger integration. >> >> I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be the answer to the >> maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven it yet for being a dog more than a >> decade ago. >> >> Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity on the IRC >> archives, or mailing list, and it won't compile from CPAN. >> >> I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list message of Tue, 16 >> Jun 2009 14:27:27 >> >> Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a screen-shot of their >> IDE? >> >> On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise (deep-copy) an >> array of hashes? >> >> Peter >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at simon.green Sat Jun 24 21:02:59 2017 From: mail at simon.green (Simon Green) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:02:59 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 23/06/17 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: > Hi mongers, > > Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? Definitely vim for me. Maybe it's because I've been coding before IDEs were around. And since Vim 7, tabs have made it even easier to have multiple source code open in the one window. And like others have said, 'print' (or 'say') statements are the best form of debugging around. If I'm trying to track performance issues, NYTProf is my go-to tool. -- Simon From florent.mara at nzregen.co.nz Sat Jun 24 22:42:22 2017 From: florent.mara at nzregen.co.nz (Florent Mara) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 17:42:22 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I didn't mention usage for Smart::Comments instead of print / say debug statement. I have been using and abusing Smart::Comments extensively for many years, very handy. use Smart::Comments; my $var = 'blue'; ### $var Then de-activate all print-outs with no Smart::Comments; Super handy. I avoid in-lining and create variables just to be able to implement print-outs with '###' whenever convenient. And we have a test that checks smart comments aren't enabled before shipping. On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Simon Green wrote: > On 23/06/17 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: > > Hi mongers, > > > > Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? > > Definitely vim for me. Maybe it's because I've been coding before IDEs > were around. And since Vim 7, tabs have made it even easier to have > multiple source code open in the one window. > > And like others have said, 'print' (or 'say') statements are the best > form of debugging around. If I'm trying to track performance issues, > NYTProf is my go-to tool. > > -- > Simon > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Steve.Piner at signify.co.nz Sun Jun 25 13:48:21 2017 From: Steve.Piner at signify.co.nz (Steve Piner) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 08:48:21 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7cdf81bd-40a2-ccc0-4976-2b155655cf07@signify.co.nz> I like Eclipse with EPIC for Perl work. Key features for me: easy reformat with PerlTidy, Perl::Critic annotation, and the debugger. Function completion is nice when it works, but it doesn't seem to work that often. http://www.epic-ide.org/ I have seen Eclipse become unresponsive from time to time, and it is quite heavy on the memory. I still prefer it over the text editors I've tried (Atom, Code). Steve On 24/06/17 11:25, Florent Mara wrote: > After Komodo and Kate, I am now using Sublime. > Komodo does a lot but changes regularly and one of the updates broke > the mini-map so I moved onto Kate and never looked back. > > Kate / Sublime are 'powerful text editors' for me. Probably not too > dissimilar to notepad++. Sublime seems to be very configurable - > providing you have the time - and has Perl specific plugins available. > > IntelliJ is used quite a lot around me for Perl or others. > > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Dan Horne > wrote: > > I'm one of those rare people who prefers an IDE. At my current > workplace I use Notepad++, but that's because I'm not allowed to > install software myself, and development isn't my primary job > anymore. I love Komodo and the debugger. Stepping through code, > setting breakpoints and inspecting variables is much more > preferable to the way I work than scattering print statements. I > have identified bugs in CPAN modules because I step through all > code, and not having to sprinkle print in other's code is a bonus. > > The downsides: it's not cheap. ActiveState keeps changing the UI > and this throws me with each update. Once I find a way of > navigating and working I don't want to change. I've actually > downgraded to v7 because that's the UI I prefer and I see no > reason to upgrade again. > > The upsides for me, besides the debugger integration. It's > multi-language, multi-platform (I use Linux, Mac and Windows) and > I can add macros that can be invoked with keystrokes such as > formatting my code with Perl Tidy. It integrates with source > control, can save remotely (via SSH), identifies syntax errors in > real time. As I said, I prefer to use an old version, but there > are a host of newer features in the latest version > (https://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide/features > ) > > I won't include screenshots - you see them in the ActiveState > site, and you can download a trial from there. > > Dan > > P.S. On a side note, I used Xarka's OptiPerl 15 years ago when I > was working in the UK. It's Windows only, and I doubt it's been > updated since then. But it will have all the features you'd > probably ever want, including realtime syntax checking, and > debugging. Plus it's only US$39 for a personal licence. > http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html > > > > > On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly > wrote: > > Hi mongers, > > Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? > > But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself > reading through http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 > which talks about > integrated debugging in an IDE. > > I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre > reasons, such as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor > on my hardware. I use Notepad++, which highlights most > keywords nicely and offers variable auto-completion. But it > doesn't have Perl debugger integration. > > I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be the > answer to the maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven it yet for > being a dog more than a decade ago. > > Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity on the > IRC archives, or mailing list, and it won't compile from CPAN. > > I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list message > of Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:27:27 > Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a screen-shot > of their IDE? > > On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise > (deep-copy) an array of hashes? > > Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -- Steve Piner Lead Developer *P:*+64 4 803 3211*M:*+64 27 588 5995 Level 9, LG House, 35 Victoria St, Wellington P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington *E: *steve.piner at signify.co.nz *S:*http://www.signify.co.nz Signify Logo *Signify *is an innovative web and mobile development company. We are about creating websites and mobile applications that are usable, accessible, functional, and striking while at the same time meeting the goals of our clients. We have considerable experience with Drupal, Plone, SilverStripe and Umbraco content management systems. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nlnfiiakjedfemla.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3924 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Steve.Piner at signify.co.nz Sun Jun 25 14:01:31 2017 From: Steve.Piner at signify.co.nz (Steve Piner) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 09:01:31 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <824d3e8d-ed62-304e-a661-897414a05e47@signify.co.nz> I've read someone writing about the potential for it to go all wrong and leave you with your debugging code running in production. They noted that if you never had 'use Smart::Comments' or equivalent in your code, and only ever ran it like 'perl -MSmart::Comments application.pl', then it was probably safe. It seemed like a clever way to avoid the risk. Steve On 25/06/17 17:42, Florent Mara wrote: > I didn't mention usage for Smart::Comments instead of print / say > debug statement. > I have been using and abusing Smart::Comments extensively for many > years, very handy. > > use Smart::Comments; > my $var = 'blue'; > ### $var > > Then de-activate all print-outs with > no Smart::Comments; > > Super handy. I avoid in-lining and create variables just to be able to > implement print-outs with '###' whenever convenient. > And we have a test that checks smart comments aren't enabled before > shipping. > > On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Simon Green > wrote: > > On 23/06/17 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: > > Hi mongers, > > > > Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? > > Definitely vim for me. Maybe it's because I've been coding before IDEs > were around. And since Vim 7, tabs have made it even easier to have > multiple source code open in the one window. > > And like others have said, 'print' (or 'say') statements are the best > form of debugging around. If I'm trying to track performance issues, > NYTProf is my go-to tool. > > -- > Simon > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -- Steve Piner Lead Developer *P:*+64 4 803 3211*M:*+64 27 588 5995 Level 9, LG House, 35 Victoria St, Wellington P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington *E: *steve.piner at signify.co.nz *S:*http://www.signify.co.nz Signify Logo *Signify *is an innovative web and mobile development company. We are about creating websites and mobile applications that are usable, accessible, functional, and striking while at the same time meeting the goals of our clients. We have considerable experience with Drupal, Plone, SilverStripe and Umbraco content management systems. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jiaofdebjcbnjdof.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3924 bytes Desc: not available URL: From perlmonger at pck.co.nz Sun Jun 25 14:05:36 2017 From: perlmonger at pck.co.nz (Peter Kelly) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 09:05:36 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks everyone for the round-the-room. Traditionally I've used vim and /say "variable is $variable" if $debug_level > x;/ But IDEs have some merits - I do love being able to set a conditional breakpoint inside a nested loop structure, and then hover over the name of the array-of-hashes and click through it. The perl command line debugger is pretty painful. And I do introduce syntax errors as I work, no doubt more than the median monger. I did about 12 hours coding in Komodo over the weekend to try it out. Komodo is very slow on the i5-powered computer I am using, although that may be everything struggling with the 4K screen. It is nice to be prompted with function arguments, although they did tend to mysteriously disappear once an argument was typed in. But a two-second lag before it notices my interim invalid-syntax code on the previous line is now OK is pretty intolerable. Perhaps I'll try Eclipse again ... it would feel a bit like moving back to Lower Hutt ... I was glad to leave both behind :-/ Thanks, Peter On 25 June 2017 at 17:42, Florent Mara wrote: > I didn't mention usage for Smart::Comments instead of print / say debug > statement. > I have been using and abusing Smart::Comments extensively for many years, > very handy. > > use Smart::Comments; > my $var = 'blue'; > ### $var > > Then de-activate all print-outs with > no Smart::Comments; > > Super handy. I avoid in-lining and create variables just to be able to > implement print-outs with '###' whenever convenient. > And we have a test that checks smart comments aren't enabled before > shipping. > > On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Simon Green wrote: > >> On 23/06/17 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: >> > Hi mongers, >> > >> > Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? >> >> Definitely vim for me. Maybe it's because I've been coding before IDEs >> were around. And since Vim 7, tabs have made it even easier to have >> multiple source code open in the one window. >> >> And like others have said, 'print' (or 'say') statements are the best >> form of debugging around. If I'm trying to track performance issues, >> NYTProf is my go-to tool. >> >> -- >> Simon >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >> > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at crawley.nz Sun Jun 25 14:00:44 2017 From: sam at crawley.nz (Sam Crawley) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 09:00:44 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: <7cdf81bd-40a2-ccc0-4976-2b155655cf07@signify.co.nz> References: <7cdf81bd-40a2-ccc0-4976-2b155655cf07@signify.co.nz> Message-ID: Another vote for Eclipse + EPIC. I don't actually use many of the "big" IDE features (e.g. debugger), but a few of the smaller ones I find invaluable. Syntax checking is a big one (although there can be some limitations if you have a complex library setup), as well as making it easy to navigation through large projects. I know vim and others *can* be set up to do this, but Eclipse does it all by default, plus I'm used to it. Never really had performance issues with it (on Linux). Sam. On 26 June 2017 at 08:48, Steve Piner wrote: > I like Eclipse with EPIC for Perl work. Key features for me: easy reformat > with PerlTidy, Perl::Critic annotation, and the debugger. Function > completion is nice when it works, but it doesn't seem to work that often. > > http://www.epic-ide.org/ > > I have seen Eclipse become unresponsive from time to time, and it is quite > heavy on the memory. I still prefer it over the text editors I've tried > (Atom, Code). > > Steve > > On 24/06/17 11:25, Florent Mara wrote: > > After Komodo and Kate, I am now using Sublime. > Komodo does a lot but changes regularly and one of the updates broke the > mini-map so I moved onto Kate and never looked back. > > Kate / Sublime are 'powerful text editors' for me. Probably not too > dissimilar to notepad++. Sublime seems to be very configurable - providing > you have the time - and has Perl specific plugins available. > > IntelliJ is used quite a lot around me for Perl or others. > > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Dan Horne > wrote: > >> I'm one of those rare people who prefers an IDE. At my current workplace >> I use Notepad++, but that's because I'm not allowed to install software >> myself, and development isn't my primary job anymore. I love Komodo and the >> debugger. Stepping through code, setting breakpoints and inspecting >> variables is much more preferable to the way I work than scattering print >> statements. I have identified bugs in CPAN modules because I step through >> all code, and not having to sprinkle print in other's code is a bonus. >> >> The downsides: it's not cheap. ActiveState keeps changing the UI and this >> throws me with each update. Once I find a way of navigating and working I >> don't want to change. I've actually downgraded to v7 because that's the UI >> I prefer and I see no reason to upgrade again. >> >> The upsides for me, besides the debugger integration. It's >> multi-language, multi-platform (I use Linux, Mac and Windows) and I can add >> macros that can be invoked with keystrokes such as formatting my code with >> Perl Tidy. It integrates with source control, can save remotely (via SSH), >> identifies syntax errors in real time. As I said, I prefer to use an old >> version, but there are a host of newer features in the latest version ( >> https://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide/features) >> >> I won't include screenshots - you see them in the ActiveState site, and >> you can download a trial from there. >> >> Dan >> >> P.S. On a side note, I used Xarka's OptiPerl 15 years ago when I was >> working in the UK. It's Windows only, and I doubt it's been updated since >> then. But it will have all the features you'd probably ever want, including >> realtime syntax checking, and debugging. Plus it's only US$39 for a >> personal licence. http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html >> >> >> >> On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: >> >>> Hi mongers, >>> >>> Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? >>> >>> But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself reading through >>> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 which talks about integrated >>> debugging in an IDE. >>> >>> I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre reasons, >>> such as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor on my hardware. I >>> use Notepad++, which highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable >>> auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger integration. >>> >>> I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be the answer to the >>> maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven it yet for being a dog more than a >>> decade ago. >>> >>> Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity on the IRC >>> archives, or mailing list, and it won't compile from CPAN. >>> >>> I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list message of Tue, 16 >>> Jun 2009 14:27:27 >>> Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a screen-shot of their >>> IDE? >>> >>> On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise (deep-copy) an >>> array of hashes? >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wellington-pm mailing list >>> Wellington-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >> > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing listWellington-pm at pm.orghttp://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > > -- > > Steve Piner > > Lead Developer > > *P:* +64 4 803 3211 <+64%204-803%203211> *M:*+64 27 588 5995 > > Level 9, LG House, 35 Victoria St, Wellington P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, > Wellington > > *E: * steve.piner at signify.co.nz *S:* http://www.signify.co.nz > > > [image: Signify Logo] > > *Signify *is an innovative web and mobile development company. We are > about creating websites and mobile applications that are usable, > accessible, functional, and striking while at the same time meeting the > goals of our clients. We have considerable experience with Drupal, Plone, > SilverStripe and Umbraco content management systems. > > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________ > > This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are > not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; > you may not read and must not copy, send or retain any part of this > communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about > this communication. > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nlnfiiakjedfemla.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3924 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ajm1170 at gmail.com Sun Jun 25 19:26:49 2017 From: ajm1170 at gmail.com (Andrew Maguire) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:26:49 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: <7cdf81bd-40a2-ccc0-4976-2b155655cf07@signify.co.nz> Message-ID: Can't believe no one has mentioned Emacs! Andrew Long time Emacs user! Sent from my iPhone > On 26/06/2017, at 9:00 AM, Sam Crawley wrote: > > Another vote for Eclipse + EPIC. > > I don't actually use many of the "big" IDE features (e.g. debugger), but a few of the smaller ones I find invaluable. Syntax checking is a big one (although there can be some limitations if you have a complex library setup), as well as making it easy to navigation through large projects. I know vim and others *can* be set up to do this, but Eclipse does it all by default, plus I'm used to it. > > Never really had performance issues with it (on Linux). > > Sam. > >> On 26 June 2017 at 08:48, Steve Piner wrote: >> I like Eclipse with EPIC for Perl work. Key features for me: easy reformat with PerlTidy, Perl::Critic annotation, and the debugger. Function completion is nice when it works, but it doesn't seem to work that often. >> http://www.epic-ide.org/ >> >> I have seen Eclipse become unresponsive from time to time, and it is quite heavy on the memory. I still prefer it over the text editors I've tried (Atom, Code). >> Steve >> >>> On 24/06/17 11:25, Florent Mara wrote: >>> After Komodo and Kate, I am now using Sublime. >>> Komodo does a lot but changes regularly and one of the updates broke the mini-map so I moved onto Kate and never looked back. >>> >>> Kate / Sublime are 'powerful text editors' for me. Probably not too dissimilar to notepad++. Sublime seems to be very configurable - providing you have the time - and has Perl specific plugins available. >>> >>> IntelliJ is used quite a lot around me for Perl or others. >>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Dan Horne wrote: >>>> I'm one of those rare people who prefers an IDE. At my current workplace I use Notepad++, but that's because I'm not allowed to install software myself, and development isn't my primary job anymore. I love Komodo and the debugger. Stepping through code, setting breakpoints and inspecting variables is much more preferable to the way I work than scattering print statements. I have identified bugs in CPAN modules because I step through all code, and not having to sprinkle print in other's code is a bonus. >>>> >>>> The downsides: it's not cheap. ActiveState keeps changing the UI and this throws me with each update. Once I find a way of navigating and working I don't want to change. I've actually downgraded to v7 because that's the UI I prefer and I see no reason to upgrade again. >>>> >>>> The upsides for me, besides the debugger integration. It's multi-language, multi-platform (I use Linux, Mac and Windows) and I can add macros that can be invoked with keystrokes such as formatting my code with Perl Tidy. It integrates with source control, can save remotely (via SSH), identifies syntax errors in real time. As I said, I prefer to use an old version, but there are a host of newer features in the latest version (https://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide/features) >>>> >>>> I won't include screenshots - you see them in the ActiveState site, and you can download a trial from there. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> P.S. On a side note, I used Xarka's OptiPerl 15 years ago when I was working in the UK. It's Windows only, and I doubt it's been updated since then. But it will have all the features you'd probably ever want, including realtime syntax checking, and debugging. Plus it's only US$39 for a personal licence. http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly wrote: >>>>> Hi mongers, >>>>> >>>>> Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? >>>>> >>>>> But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself reading through http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 which talks about integrated debugging in an IDE. >>>>> >>>>> I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre reasons, such as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor on my hardware. I use Notepad++, which highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger integration. >>>>> >>>>> I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be the answer to the maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven it yet for being a dog more than a decade ago. >>>>> >>>>> Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity on the IRC archives, or mailing list, and it won't compile from CPAN. >>>>> >>>>> I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list message of Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:27:27 >>>>> >>>>> Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a screen-shot of their IDE? >>>>> >>>>> On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise (deep-copy) an array of hashes? >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wellington-pm mailing list >>>>> Wellington-pm at pm.org >>>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wellington-pm mailing list >>>> Wellington-pm at pm.org >>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wellington-pm mailing list >>> Wellington-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >> >> -- >> Steve Piner >> >> Lead Developer >> >> P: +64 4 803 3211 M:+64 27 588 5995 >> >> Level 9, LG House, 35 Victoria St, Wellington P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington >> >> E: steve.piner at signify.co.nz S: http://www.signify.co.nz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Signify is an innovative web and mobile development company. We are about creating websites and mobile applications that are usable, accessible, functional, and striking while at the same time meeting the goals of our clients. We have considerable experience with Drupal, Plone, SilverStripe and Umbraco content management systems. >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nlnfiiakjedfemla.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3924 bytes Desc: not available URL: From enkidu at cliffp.com Mon Jun 26 00:17:10 2017 From: enkidu at cliffp.com (Cliff Pratt) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:17:10 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: <7cdf81bd-40a2-ccc0-4976-2b155655cf07@signify.co.nz> Message-ID: Emacs? Is that the thing with all the brackets? 8-) Cheers, Cliff PS I've used Eclipse with various languages. That's the big thing for me - just one IDE to learn across various languages. Then again I've used command line debuggers at times. But I'm not a big coder. C. On 26/06/17 14:26, Andrew Maguire wrote: > Can't believe no one has mentioned Emacs! > > Andrew > Long time Emacs user! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 26/06/2017, at 9:00 AM, Sam Crawley > wrote: > >> Another vote for Eclipse + EPIC. >> >> I don't actually use many of the "big" IDE features (e.g. debugger), >> but a few of the smaller ones I find invaluable. Syntax checking is a >> big one (although there can be some limitations if you have a complex >> library setup), as well as making it easy to navigation through large >> projects. I know vim and others *can* be set up to do this, but >> Eclipse does it all by default, plus I'm used to it. >> >> Never really had performance issues with it (on Linux). >> >> Sam. >> >> On 26 June 2017 at 08:48, Steve Piner > > wrote: >> >> I like Eclipse with EPIC for Perl work. Key features for me: easy >> reformat with PerlTidy, Perl::Critic annotation, and the >> debugger. Function completion is nice when it works, but it >> doesn't seem to work that often. >> >> http://www.epic-ide.org/ >> >> I have seen Eclipse become unresponsive from time to time, and it >> is quite heavy on the memory. I still prefer it over the text >> editors I've tried (Atom, Code). >> >> Steve >> >> >> On 24/06/17 11:25, Florent Mara wrote: >>> After Komodo and Kate, I am now using Sublime. >>> Komodo does a lot but changes regularly and one of the updates >>> broke the mini-map so I moved onto Kate and never looked back. >>> >>> Kate / Sublime are 'powerful text editors' for me. Probably not >>> too dissimilar to notepad++. Sublime seems to be very >>> configurable - providing you have the time - and has Perl >>> specific plugins available. >>> >>> IntelliJ is used quite a lot around me for Perl or others. >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Dan Horne >>> > wrote: >>> >>> I'm one of those rare people who prefers an IDE. At my >>> current workplace I use Notepad++, but that's because I'm >>> not allowed to install software myself, and development >>> isn't my primary job anymore. I love Komodo and the >>> debugger. Stepping through code, setting breakpoints and >>> inspecting variables is much more preferable to the way I >>> work than scattering print statements. I have identified >>> bugs in CPAN modules because I step through all code, and >>> not having to sprinkle print in other's code is a bonus. >>> >>> The downsides: it's not cheap. ActiveState keeps changing >>> the UI and this throws me with each update. Once I find a >>> way of navigating and working I don't want to change. I've >>> actually downgraded to v7 because that's the UI I prefer and >>> I see no reason to upgrade again. >>> >>> The upsides for me, besides the debugger integration. It's >>> multi-language, multi-platform (I use Linux, Mac and >>> Windows) and I can add macros that can be invoked with >>> keystrokes such as formatting my code with Perl Tidy. It >>> integrates with source control, can save remotely (via SSH), >>> identifies syntax errors in real time. As I said, I prefer >>> to use an old version, but there are a host of newer >>> features in the latest version >>> (https://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide/features >>> ) >>> >>> I won't include screenshots - you see them in the >>> ActiveState site, and you can download a trial from there. >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> P.S. On a side note, I used Xarka's OptiPerl 15 years ago >>> when I was working in the UK. It's Windows only, and I doubt >>> it's been updated since then. But it will have all the >>> features you'd probably ever want, including realtime syntax >>> checking, and debugging. Plus it's only US$39 for a personal >>> licence. http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi mongers, >>> >>> Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? >>> >>> But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself >>> reading through >>> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 >>> which talks >>> about integrated debugging in an IDE. >>> >>> I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for >>> bizarre reasons, such as that I can't get Linux to drive >>> my 4K monitor on my hardware. I use Notepad++, which >>> highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable >>> auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger >>> integration. >>> >>> I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be >>> the answer to the maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven >>> it yet for being a dog more than a decade ago. >>> >>> Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity >>> on the IRC archives, or mailing list, and it won't >>> compile from CPAN. >>> >>> I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list >>> message of Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:27:27 >>> Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a >>> screen-shot of their IDE? >>> >>> On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise >>> (deep-copy) an array of hashes? >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wellington-pm mailing list >>> Wellington-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wellington-pm mailing list >>> Wellington-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wellington-pm mailing list >>> Wellington-pm at pm.org >>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >>> >> >> -- >> >> Steve Piner >> >> Lead Developer >> >> *P:*+64 4 803 3211 *M:*+64 27 588 5995 >> >> Level 9, LG House, 35 Victoria St, Wellington P.O. Box 24-068, >> Manners St, Wellington >> >> *E: *steve.piner at signify.co.nz >> *S:*http://www.signify.co.nz >> >> >> >> Signify Logo >> >> *Signify *is an innovative web and mobile development company. We >> are about creating websites and mobile applications that are >> usable, accessible, functional, and striking while at the same >> time meeting the goals of our clients. We have considerable >> experience with Drupal, Plone, SilverStripe and Umbraco content >> management systems. >> >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If >> you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy >> this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send or >> retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to >> any third party anything about this communication. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nlnfiiakjedfemla.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3924 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tai.paul.nz at gmail.com Mon Jun 26 14:34:51 2017 From: tai.paul.nz at gmail.com (Tai Paul) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:34:51 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room In-Reply-To: References: <7cdf81bd-40a2-ccc0-4976-2b155655cf07@signify.co.nz> Message-ID: <001501d2eec4$0e6a64a0$2b3f2de0$@pplus.co.nz> I've tried various IDE's and found them to be high on features which really just causes clutter. I use EditPlus. It's nice and simple with configurable syntax highlighting and I've linked in Perl::Tidy, Perl::Critic and others from the tool bar. I never use the debugger because I write bug-free code ;) Truthfully I used Data::Printer for debugging. The best feature of my set up is three monitors. Requirements on the left, source code in the centre, output on the right (browser or terminal or GUI). From: Wellington-pm [mailto:wellington-pm-bounces+tai=pplus.co.nz at pm.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Pratt Sent: Monday, 26 June 2017 7:17 PM To: wellington-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [Wellington-pm] IDEs round-the-room Emacs? Is that the thing with all the brackets? 8-) Cheers, Cliff PS I've used Eclipse with various languages. That's the big thing for me - just one IDE to learn across various languages. Then again I've used command line debuggers at times. But I'm not a big coder. C. On 26/06/17 14:26, Andrew Maguire wrote: Can't believe no one has mentioned Emacs! Andrew Long time Emacs user! Sent from my iPhone On 26/06/2017, at 9:00 AM, Sam Crawley > wrote: Another vote for Eclipse + EPIC. I don't actually use many of the "big" IDE features (e.g. debugger), but a few of the smaller ones I find invaluable. Syntax checking is a big one (although there can be some limitations if you have a complex library setup), as well as making it easy to navigation through large projects. I know vim and others *can* be set up to do this, but Eclipse does it all by default, plus I'm used to it. Never really had performance issues with it (on Linux). Sam. On 26 June 2017 at 08:48, Steve Piner > wrote: I like Eclipse with EPIC for Perl work. Key features for me: easy reformat with PerlTidy, Perl::Critic annotation, and the debugger. Function completion is nice when it works, but it doesn't seem to work that often. http://www.epic-ide.org/ I have seen Eclipse become unresponsive from time to time, and it is quite heavy on the memory. I still prefer it over the text editors I've tried (Atom, Code). Steve On 24/06/17 11:25, Florent Mara wrote: After Komodo and Kate, I am now using Sublime. Komodo does a lot but changes regularly and one of the updates broke the mini-map so I moved onto Kate and never looked back. Kate / Sublime are 'powerful text editors' for me. Probably not too dissimilar to notepad++. Sublime seems to be very configurable - providing you have the time - and has Perl specific plugins available. IntelliJ is used quite a lot around me for Perl or others. On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Dan Horne > wrote: I'm one of those rare people who prefers an IDE. At my current workplace I use Notepad++, but that's because I'm not allowed to install software myself, and development isn't my primary job anymore. I love Komodo and the debugger. Stepping through code, setting breakpoints and inspecting variables is much more preferable to the way I work than scattering print statements. I have identified bugs in CPAN modules because I step through all code, and not having to sprinkle print in other's code is a bonus. The downsides: it's not cheap. ActiveState keeps changing the UI and this throws me with each update. Once I find a way of navigating and working I don't want to change. I've actually downgraded to v7 because that's the UI I prefer and I see no reason to upgrade again. The upsides for me, besides the debugger integration. It's multi-language, multi-platform (I use Linux, Mac and Windows) and I can add macros that can be invoked with keystrokes such as formatting my code with Perl Tidy. It integrates with source control, can save remotely (via SSH), identifies syntax errors in real time. As I said, I prefer to use an old version, but there are a host of newer features in the latest version (https://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide/features) I won't include screenshots - you see them in the ActiveState site, and you can download a trial from there. Dan P.S. On a side note, I used Xarka's OptiPerl 15 years ago when I was working in the UK. It's Windows only, and I doubt it's been updated since then. But it will have all the features you'd probably ever want, including realtime syntax checking, and debugging. Plus it's only US$39 for a personal licence. http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html On 23 June 2017 at 21:35, Peter Kelly > wrote: Hi mongers, Could we have a round-the-room about IDEs? But as I sit here this balmy winter night, I find myself reading through http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1137488 which talks about integrated debugging in an IDE. I do my Perl coding mostly in Windows this month for bizarre reasons, such as that I can't get Linux to drive my 4K monitor on my hardware. I use Notepad++, which highlights most keywords nicely and offers variable auto-completion. But it doesn't have Perl debugger integration. I see from that comment that Eclipe is supposed to be the answer to the maiden's prayer. I haven't forgiven it yet for being a dog more than a decade ago. Padre appears to be a dead duck - there is no activity on the IRC archives, or mailing list, and it won't compile from CPAN. I note a mention of the topic from Grant in his list message of Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:27:27 Would it be annoying if I asked people to share a screen-shot of their IDE? On an unrelated note, is there any easy way to localise (deep-copy) an array of hashes? Peter _______________________________________________ Wellington-pm mailing list Wellington-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm _______________________________________________ Wellington-pm mailing list Wellington-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -- _______________________________________________ Wellington-pm mailing list Wellington-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -- Steve Piner Lead Developer P: +64 4 803 3211 M:+64 27 588 5995 Level 9, LG House, 35 Victoria St, Wellington P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington E: steve.piner at signify.co.nz S: http://www.signify.co.nz Signify is an innovative web and mobile development company. We are about creating websites and mobile applications that are usable, accessible, functional, and striking while at the same time meeting the goals of our clients. We have considerable experience with Drupal, Plone, SilverStripe and Umbraco content management systems. ____________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. _______________________________________________ Wellington-pm mailing list Wellington-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm _______________________________________________ Wellington-pm mailing list Wellington-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm _______________________________________________ Wellington-pm mailing list Wellington-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 3924 bytes Desc: not available URL: