From jarich at perltraining.com.au Sun May 3 18:09:33 2009 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 11:09:33 +1000 Subject: [Wellington-pm] OSDC 2009 Call For Papers Message-ID: <49FE404D.5080006@perltraining.com.au> >From another list, but thought we should know... ------------ I'm please to announce that the call for papers for OSDC 2009 is officially opened. I would like to invite you to submit a paper and do a talk at our conference. This conference is a grassroots style conference designed by developers for developers. We're planning to cover Perl, Python, Ruby PHP and Open Source operating systems. If you'd like us to cover something else as well that is Open Source themed, please feel free. The Call for Papers can be found at: ~ http://2009.osdc.com.au/call-for-papers The important dates are: ~ Call for Papers Closes 30 June, 2009 ~ Proposal acceptance 20 July, 2009 ~ Accepted paper submissions 14 September, 2009 ~ OSDC 2009 Main Conference! 25th to 27th November, 2009 OSDC 2009 will be held at the Bardon Conference Center in Brisbane this year. This is a fantastic venue a short drive from the Brisbane CBD, totally surrounded by lush greenery. -- Regards, Stephen Thorne From grant at mclean.net.nz Sun May 3 18:14:36 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 13:14:36 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] OSDC 2009 Call For Papers In-Reply-To: <49FE404D.5080006@perltraining.com.au> References: <49FE404D.5080006@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <1241399676.6439.16.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 11:09 +1000, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > OSDC 2009 will be held at the Bardon Conference Center in Brisbane this > year. This is a fantastic venue a short drive from the Brisbane CBD, > totally surrounded by lush greenery. Hey Srdjan It sounds like this one will be right on your doorstep - you'd be crazy not to go. You could educate the Aussies about proper use of 'if'. Grant From grant at mclean.net.nz Mon May 4 15:18:03 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:18:03 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers Next Tuesday Message-ID: <1241475483.31976.15.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Hi Mongers The next meeting of Wellington Perl Mongers is 1 week from today on May 12th. Usual place and time ... 6:00pm Tuesday 12 May 2008 Level 3 Catalyst House 150 Willis Street Wellington http://wellington.pm.org/ Donovan Jones has kindly volunteered to talk to us about his experiences with Perl and DNS. Until he comes up with something better, I'm running with the working title: "Fixing .nz one lamer at a time (with Perl)" No one else has volunteered a talk or proposed a topic **YET**. I'd really like to see some short talks (5-10 minutes) and ideally from people who haven't spoken at Wellington.pm before (or recently). Remember Perl folk tend to be interested in a wide range topics so don't be too concerned about needing to have 'Perl content' in your talk. Drop me an email to volunteer. *** Books *** The Wellington.pm 'library' is looking somewhat depleted. On the one hand that's good because it means people are making use of the resource. On the other hand people seem to be holding on to books for rather a long time - which isn't so good. If you have one of the Wellington.pm books, please bring it back next week. Cheers Grant From srdjan at catalyst.net.nz Mon May 4 17:53:09 2009 From: srdjan at catalyst.net.nz (Srdjan) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:53:09 +1000 Subject: [Wellington-pm] OSDC 2009 Call For Papers In-Reply-To: <1241399676.6439.16.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> References: <49FE404D.5080006@perltraining.com.au> <1241399676.6439.16.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Message-ID: <49FF8DF5.7070701@catalyst.net.nz> Heh, heard that on Brizzy.pm And it will be very hard to miss that one. So I may sharpen my sword and continue my crusade against ifs... Srdjan Grant McLean wrote: > On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 11:09 +1000, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > >> OSDC 2009 will be held at the Bardon Conference Center in Brisbane this >> year. This is a fantastic venue a short drive from the Brisbane CBD, >> totally surrounded by lush greenery. >> > > Hey Srdjan > > It sounds like this one will be right on your doorstep - you'd be crazy > not to go. You could educate the Aussies about proper use of 'if'. > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > > From andrew at morphoss.com Tue May 5 00:08:30 2009 From: andrew at morphoss.com (Andrew McMillan) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 19:08:30 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers Next Tuesday In-Reply-To: <1241475483.31976.15.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> (sfid-20090505_101847_473778_85FFB9ED) References: <1241475483.31976.15.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> (sfid-20090505_101847_473778_85FFB9ED) Message-ID: <1241507310.17629.166.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 10:18 +1200, Grant McLean wrote: > > No one else has volunteered a talk or proposed a topic **YET**. I'd > really like to see some short talks (5-10 minutes) and ideally from > people who haven't spoken at Wellington.pm before (or recently). > Remember Perl folk tend to be interested in a wide range topics so don't > be too concerned about needing to have 'Perl content' in your talk. > Drop me an email to volunteer. I gave a talk at the postgres user's group last year which went down quite well. Essentially it's a vague tutorial about PL/PgSQL presented as an exercise in implementing 'Ooooaarggh Rules' for pirates. If you're desperate, and haven't had enough bad puns already... :-) Cheers, Andrew. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ andrew (AT) morphoss (DOT) com +64(272)DEBIAN Stay the curse. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From grant at mclean.net.nz Tue May 5 00:24:56 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 19:24:56 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Mongers Next Tuesday In-Reply-To: <1241507310.17629.166.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> References: <1241475483.31976.15.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> (sfid-20090505_101847_473778_85FFB9ED) <1241507310.17629.166.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> Message-ID: <1241508296.8692.2.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 19:08 +1200, Andrew McMillan wrote: > On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 10:18 +1200, Grant McLean wrote: > > Drop me an email to volunteer. > > I gave a talk at the postgres user's group last year which went down > quite well. Essentially it's a vague tutorial about PL/PgSQL presented > as an exercise in implementing 'Ooooaarggh Rules' for pirates. > > If you're desperate, and haven't had enough bad puns already... :-) I wouldn't classify myself as 'desperate', but it does sound fun and you fit the profile of not having presented at Wellington.pm recently. How many minutes do you want? Cheers Grant From andrew at morphoss.com Tue May 5 03:48:42 2009 From: andrew at morphoss.com (Andrew McMillan) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 22:48:42 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... Message-ID: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> ... but you probably already knew that :-) Can someone please explain to me why I get a difference between these: $text =~ s/\s+/ /s; vs. $text = join( ' ', split( /\s+/s, $text) ); Assuming that $text is a multi-line string beforehand, and I want it to be a single-line string afterwards. The first one doesn't do what I want - to replace sequences of whitespace (including newlines) with a single space. The second seems remarkably long-winded to achieve what I want, and quite probably less efficient than one might hope, as well. I expect that I am missing something blindingly obvious, and an explanation will no doubt assist my progress along the path to perl enlightenment. Yours, Confused. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ andrew (AT) morphoss (DOT) com +64(272)DEBIAN I have not seen high-discipline processes succeed in commercial settings. - Alistair Cockburn ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gaurav at ggvaidya.com Tue May 5 04:03:11 2009 From: gaurav at ggvaidya.com (Gaurav Vaidya) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 19:03:11 +0800 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... In-Reply-To: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> References: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> Message-ID: <2665a3df0905050403s5ee49ab1ucd0b6ff33de7950b@mail.gmail.com> Hi Andrew, 2009/5/5 Andrew McMillan : > Can someone please explain to me why I get a difference between these: > ?$text =~ s/\s+/ /s; > vs. > ?$text = join( ' ', split( /\s+/s, $text) ); I think it's the 'g': s/\s+/ /s will only replace the first continuous sequence of whitespace with a single space. If you want to replace all the spaces, you want s/\s+/ /sg. Also: hello from Singapore! cheers, Gaurav From olly at survex.com Tue May 5 05:55:45 2009 From: olly at survex.com (Olly Betts) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 13:55:45 +0100 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... In-Reply-To: <2665a3df0905050403s5ee49ab1ucd0b6ff33de7950b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> <2665a3df0905050403s5ee49ab1ucd0b6ff33de7950b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090505125545.GP32170@survex.com> On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 07:03:11PM +0800, Gaurav Vaidya wrote: > 2009/5/5 Andrew McMillan : > > Can someone please explain to me why I get a difference between these: > > ?$text =~ s/\s+/ /s; > > vs. > > ?$text = join( ' ', split( /\s+/s, $text) ); > > I think it's the 'g': s/\s+/ /s will only replace the first continuous > sequence of whitespace with a single space. If you want to replace all > the spaces, you want s/\s+/ /sg. Note also that the "/s" modifier's *only* effect is to allow "." to also match "\n", so it's useless here as there is no "." in the pattern. "\s" can always match "\n", viz: $ perl -e '$x = "abc \r\n\f\tdef\nghi";$x =~ s/\s+/ /g;print "[$x]\n"' [abc def ghi] Cheers, Olly From brenda at wallace.net.nz Tue May 5 15:08:49 2009 From: brenda at wallace.net.nz (Brenda Wallace) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:08:49 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... In-Reply-To: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> References: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> Message-ID: I think you want a g on the end of the regex to make it greedy. On 5/05/2009, at 22:48, Andrew McMillan wrote: > ... but you probably already knew that :-) > > Can someone please explain to me why I get a difference between these: > > $text =~ s/\s+/ /s; > > vs. > > $text = join( ' ', split( /\s+/s, $text) ); > > Assuming that $text is a multi-line string beforehand, and I want it > to > be a single-line string afterwards. > > The first one doesn't do what I want - to replace sequences of > whitespace (including newlines) with a single space. The second seems > remarkably long-winded to achieve what I want, and quite probably less > efficient than one might hope, as well. > > I expect that I am missing something blindingly obvious, and an > explanation will no doubt assist my progress along the path to perl > enlightenment. > > Yours, > Confused. > > --- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > andrew (AT) morphoss (DOT) com > +64(272)DEBIAN > I have not seen high-discipline processes succeed in commercial > settings. - Alistair Cockburn > > --- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm From grant at mclean.net.nz Tue May 5 15:13:18 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:13:18 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... In-Reply-To: References: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> Message-ID: <1241561598.25901.1.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 10:08 +1200, Brenda Wallace wrote: > I think you want a g on the end of the regex to make it greedy. I think you mean 'to make it global' ie: to perform the substitution for all matches rather than just the first one. 'Greedy' is a whole other ball-o-wax :-) Cheers Grant From srdjan at catalyst.net.nz Tue May 5 17:01:18 2009 From: srdjan at catalyst.net.nz (Srdjan) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:01:18 +1000 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... In-Reply-To: <1241561598.25901.1.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> References: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> <1241561598.25901.1.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Message-ID: <4A00D34E.7010304@catalyst.net.nz> And with perl you get greediness straight away for free. Srdjan Grant McLean wrote: > On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 10:08 +1200, Brenda Wallace wrote: > >> I think you want a g on the end of the regex to make it greedy. >> > > I think you mean 'to make it global' ie: to perform the substitution for > all matches rather than just the first one. > > 'Greedy' is a whole other ball-o-wax :-) > > Cheers > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > > From andrew at morphoss.com Tue May 5 17:51:09 2009 From: andrew at morphoss.com (Andrew McMillan) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 12:51:09 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... In-Reply-To: <2665a3df0905050403s5ee49ab1ucd0b6ff33de7950b@mail.gmail.com> (sfid-20090505_230358_183318_3CF0EFA3) References: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> <2665a3df0905050403s5ee49ab1ucd0b6ff33de7950b@mail.gmail.com> (sfid-20090505_230358_183318_3CF0EFA3) Message-ID: <1241571069.17629.241.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 19:03 +0800, Gaurav Vaidya wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > 2009/5/5 Andrew McMillan : > > Can someone please explain to me why I get a difference between these: > > $text =~ s/\s+/ /s; > > vs. > > $text = join( ' ', split( /\s+/s, $text) ); > > I think it's the 'g': s/\s+/ /s will only replace the first continuous > sequence of whitespace with a single space. If you want to replace all > the spaces, you want s/\s+/ /sg. Thanks. It seems I was being (very) thick. I blame it on too many late nights. I had something like this in plenty of other places in my program too. > Also: hello from Singapore! Heh. How appropriate to get my answer from .sg indeed :-) Cheers, Andrew. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ andrew (AT) morphoss (DOT) com +64(272)DEBIAN Just to have it is enough. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From brenda at wallace.net.nz Tue May 5 23:49:53 2009 From: brenda at wallace.net.nz (Brenda Wallace) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:49:53 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] I must be stupid... In-Reply-To: <1241561598.25901.1.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> References: <1241520522.17629.200.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> <1241561598.25901.1.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Message-ID: On 6/05/2009, at 10:13, Grant McLean wrote: > On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 10:08 +1200, Brenda Wallace wrote: >> I think you want a g on the end of the regex to make it greedy. > > I think you mean 'to make it global' ie: to perform the substitution > for > all matches rather than just the first one. > > 'Greedy' is a whole other ball-o-wax :-) > Sorry wrong g word. Btw andrew mcmillan taught me to regex :) long long ago. > Cheers > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm From dave at thinktank.co.nz Mon May 11 20:07:07 2009 From: dave at thinktank.co.nz (Dave Moskovitz) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:07:07 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl: The language with the happiest users Message-ID: <200905121507.07900.dave@thinktank.co.nz> Yes, the word's out ... Perl is the language with the happiest users! http://blog.doloreslabs.com/2009/05/the-programming-language-with-the-happiest-users/ Have fun Dave -- A yes vote in the August referendum supports positive parenting and a law that's working well. See www.yesvote.org.nz -- Dave Moskovitz Director, Thinktank Consulting Limited dave at thinktank.co.nz / Tel +64 27 220 2202 Twitter: @davemosk From brenda at wallace.net.nz Mon May 11 20:44:05 2009 From: brenda at wallace.net.nz (Brenda Wallace) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:44:05 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl: The language with the happiest users In-Reply-To: <200905121507.07900.dave@thinktank.co.nz> References: <200905121507.07900.dave@thinktank.co.nz> Message-ID: <537BEB42-8A9A-4B36-A1D6-99977184F9B0@wallace.net.nz> And they missed out php And yet included visual basic. On 12/05/2009, at 15:07, Dave Moskovitz wrote: > Yes, the word's out ... Perl is the language with the happiest users! > > http://blog.doloreslabs.com/2009/05/the-programming-language-with-the-happiest-users/ > > Have fun > Dave > > -- > A yes vote in the August referendum supports positive parenting > and a law that's working well. See www.yesvote.org.nz > -- > Dave Moskovitz > Director, Thinktank Consulting Limited > dave at thinktank.co.nz / Tel +64 27 220 2202 > Twitter: @davemosk > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm From grant at mclean.net.nz Mon May 11 20:57:23 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:57:23 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meeting tonight Message-ID: <1242100643.11594.27.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Ironically I have been unable to send reminders about tonight's meeting to the mailing list because the server has been rejecting my messages and not telling me. It's unclear why. So anyway, there is a meeting tonight. The details are on the web site (which I will not link to for fear of having the message classified as spam). See you in a couple of hours. Cheers Grant From andrew at morphoss.com Mon May 11 21:23:49 2009 From: andrew at morphoss.com (Andrew McMillan) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:23:49 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Meeting tonight In-Reply-To: <1242100643.11594.27.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> (sfid-20090512_155807_927398_CEBCCF00) References: <1242100643.11594.27.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> (sfid-20090512_155807_927398_CEBCCF00) Message-ID: <1242102229.4075.122.camel@happy.mcmillan.net.nz> On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 15:57 +1200, Grant McLean wrote: > Ironically I have been unable to send reminders about tonight's meeting > to the mailing list because the server has been rejecting my messages > and not telling me. It's unclear why. > > So anyway, there is a meeting tonight. The details are on the web site > (which I will not link to for fear of having the message classified as > spam). Regretfully, Heather is away, so I'm on child-minding duties... Sorry about that. I'll have to defer my talk until the next meeting :-( Cheers, Andrew. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ andrew (AT) morphoss (DOT) com +64(272)DEBIAN Q: What is purple and concord the world? A: Alexander the Grape. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From enkidu at cliffp.com Tue May 12 00:34:07 2009 From: enkidu at cliffp.com (Cliff Pratt) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:34:07 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl: The language with the happiest users In-Reply-To: <537BEB42-8A9A-4B36-A1D6-99977184F9B0@wallace.net.nz> References: <200905121507.07900.dave@thinktank.co.nz> <537BEB42-8A9A-4B36-A1D6-99977184F9B0@wallace.net.nz> Message-ID: <4A09266F.7020708@cliffp.com> PHP is a language? 8-) Cheers, Cliff Brenda Wallace wrote: > And they missed out php > And yet included visual basic. > > On 12/05/2009, at 15:07, Dave Moskovitz wrote: > >> Yes, the word's out ... Perl is the language with the happiest users! >> >> http://blog.doloreslabs.com/2009/05/the-programming-language-with-the-happiest-users/ >> >> >> Have fun >> Dave >> >> -- >> A yes vote in the August referendum supports positive parenting >> and a law that's working well. See www.yesvote.org.nz >> -- >> Dave Moskovitz >> Director, Thinktank Consulting Limited >> dave at thinktank.co.nz / Tel +64 27 220 2202 >> Twitter: @davemosk From brenda at wallace.net.nz Tue May 12 00:41:16 2009 From: brenda at wallace.net.nz (Brenda Wallace) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:41:16 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Fwd: Social Innovation Camp Meet-Up, Wellington, Saturday 6 June, 2-6pm References: <2A91EFAB-86ED-4320-AD99-4E91FCCC7D25@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: Hey perl mongers. How bout showing them innovators what perl can do? I hear there will be plenty of free beer and glory for all. Begin forwarded > > Hi everyone > > The organisers of this event are keen to have more technical folk > involved on the day. Info below. > > > Chris > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "New Zealand Centre for Social Innovation" >> Date: 7 May 2009 12:45:09 PM >> To: "Catalyst IT" >> Subject: Social Innovation Camp Meet-Up, Wellington, Saturday 6 >> June, 2-6pm >> Reply-To: "New Zealand Centre for Social Innovation" > > >> >> Email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser. >> >> JUNE 6 MEET-UP: ?RECESSION ? JUST ANOTHER EXCUSE TO INNOVATE? >> >> Saturday 6 June 2009, 2-6pm, Wellington >> >> In a recession there are greater social challenges, but less money >> with which to meet them. So we need to get innovative. >> >> Social Innovation Camps across the world are coming up with web- >> based solutions to social challenges ? helping people and communit >> ies to help themselves. For some great examples, check out www.enabledbydesign.org >> and the ideas from SI Camp UK. >> >> Now it?s our turn. At our June 6 meet-up in Wellington (venue TBC) >> , we?re bringing together a mix of social entrepreneurs, web devel >> opers, business specialists and creatives to propose and vote on o >> ur top 3 ideas to innovate out of recession. Later in the year we? >> ll hold a full weekend SI Camp to develop the top ideas into worki >> ng web prototypes, with prizes including cash, mentoring and web d >> evelopment assistance. >> >> Places at the meet-up are limited, so email us now and we?ll send >> you out a short application form. We?ll confirm places by Friday 1 >> 5 May. >> >> Social Innovation Camp needs a balance of skills and expertise to >> make it work, so participants are chosen carefully. If we can?t fi >> t you in this time around, please don't be disappointed ? >> there?ll be lots more opportunities! >> >> You?ll expand your network, have a stimulating afternoon for free, >> and make a contribution to the New Zealanders who are bearing the >> brunt of tough times. >> >> Check us out at www.sicampnz.ning.com. To do some homework on the >> people behind this initiative, visit www.nzcsi.org. >> >> >> >> SI Camp is supported by Kordia, ymedia and the British Council, and >> the June Meet-Up will be facilitated by Origin Design. >> >> >> >> >> >> The New Zealand Centre for Social Innovation brings together >> public, private and community partners to create new solutions to >> our most pressing social needs. >> >> www.nzcsi.org >> >> >> Foundation Partners >> >> >> >> >> You are currently listed in the Centre for Social Innovation?s dat >> abase, and we hope that you are interested in our updates and noti >> ces of upcoming events and activities. >> >> Unsubscribe chris at catalyst.net.nz from this list | Forward to a >> friend | Update your profile >> >> Our mailing address is: >> Centre for Social Innovation >> PO Box 5494 >> Wellesley Street >> CBD, Auckland 1141 >> >> Our telephone: >> 094460044 >> Add us to your address book >> >> >> Copyright (C) 2009 Centre for Social Innovation All rights reserved. >> > > From grant at mclean.net.nz Wed May 13 02:49:39 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:49:39 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Roundup of last night's meeting Message-ID: <1242208179.6452.14.camel@localhost> Hi Mongers Thanks to Dononvan Jones and Andrew Boag for their talks last night, and the conversations they sparked. The slides are up on the web site now: http://wellington.pm.org/archive/ The next meeting will be in four weeks on June the 9th. Martyn has offered to talk about his experiences scraping web pages and Donovan will give us a brief update on his DNS crusade. There's room for another talk - perhaps Andrew MacMillan will be able to give us his PL/PgSQL talk. Cheers Grant From don at gamma.net.nz Wed May 13 15:19:21 2009 From: don at gamma.net.nz (Don Jones) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:19:21 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Roundup of last night's meeting In-Reply-To: <1242208179.6452.14.camel@localhost> References: <1242208179.6452.14.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Grant McLean wrote: > Hi Mongers > > Thanks to Dononvan Jones and Andrew Boag for their talks last night, and > the conversations they sparked. The slides are up on the web site now: > > http://wellington.pm.orgmay be around/archive/ > > The next meeting will be in four weeks on June the 9th. > > Martyn has offered to talk about his experiences scraping web pages and > Donovan will give us a brief update on his DNS crusade. What, you mean I actually have to finish writing it! :) BTW here are those two recommended links for those too lazy to goto the archives to find them http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0210/ppt/duane.pdf http://unixwiz.net/techtips/iguide-kaminsky-dns-vuln.html Cheers Donovan > > > There's room for another talk - perhaps Andrew MacMillan will be able to > give us his PL/PgSQL talk. > > Cheers > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lenz at gschwendtner.eu Wed May 13 15:52:27 2009 From: lenz at gschwendtner.eu (Lenz Gschwendtner) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:52:27 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Roundup of last night's meeting In-Reply-To: References: <1242208179.6452.14.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <44D4F94C-25D1-45BC-93E3-24F064564331@gschwendtner.eu> damn, looks like i really missed a good talk *sad* lenz ps: lots of work on the registry level is done to stabilise DNS like the AS112 project that blackholes rfc1918 addresses. fun topics :-) On 14/05/2009, at 10:19 AM, Don Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Grant McLean > wrote: > Hi Mongers > > Thanks to Dononvan Jones and Andrew Boag for their talks last night, > and > the conversations they sparked. The slides are up on the web site > now: > > http://wellington.pm.orgmay be around/archive/ > > The next meeting will be in four weeks on June the 9th. > > Martyn has offered to talk about his experiences scraping web pages > and > Donovan will give us a brief update on his DNS crusade. > > What, you mean I actually have to finish writing it! > > :) > > BTW here are those two recommended links for those too lazy to goto > the archives to find them > > http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0210/ppt/duane.pdf > http://unixwiz.net/techtips/iguide-kaminsky-dns-vuln.html > > Cheers > > Donovan > > > > > There's room for another talk - perhaps Andrew MacMillan will be > able to > give us his PL/PgSQL talk. > > Cheers > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm > > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lrw at clear.net.nz Wed May 13 18:13:32 2009 From: lrw at clear.net.nz (Lesley Longhurst) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:13:32 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files Message-ID: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> Hi all, Some of you may remember a while ago I brought in some code from work to talk about, and it was based around a truly hideous config file. I'm now working on replacing some of that stuff with a new script, and the time has come to invent a better config file format. So, I'm interested in recommendations for a good module to use for reading and writing complex config files. Ideally, such a module would meet the following requirements: - well-documented - currently supported - a usable version available in a Debian package for Etch and the config file itself needs to - be easily read and edited by humans - support repeated sub-sections - allow multiple entries for parameters within the same section and sub-section - allow for lots of comments Any suggestions? By way of example, I've attached a first cut of the sort of thing I'm thinking of (and for your amusement I've also attached a fragment of the existing config file that I derived it from.) -- Lesley Longhurst (previously Walker) Linux Systems Administrator Opus International Consultants Ltd Email lesley.longhurst at opus.co.nz Tel +64 4 471 7002, Fax +64 4 473 3017 http://www.opus.co.nz Level 9 Majestic Centre, 100 Willis Street, PO Box 12 343 Wellington, New Zealand -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: old_style.txt URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: proposed_style.txt URL: From martyn at catalyst.net.nz Wed May 13 18:18:02 2009 From: martyn at catalyst.net.nz (Martyn Smith) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:18:02 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> References: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <20090514011802.GC29046@flange.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Your new format looks very close to YAML :-) (see the YAML) module Perhaps you just want to use that as your config format? On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 01:13:32PM +1200, Lesley Longhurst wrote: > Hi all, > Some of you may remember a while ago I brought in some code from work to > talk about, and it was based around a truly hideous config file. > > I'm now working on replacing some of that stuff with a new script, and > the time has come to invent a better config file format. So, I'm > interested in recommendations for a good module to use for reading and > writing complex config files. > > Ideally, such a module would meet the following requirements: > - well-documented > - currently supported > - a usable version available in a Debian package for Etch > > and the config file itself needs to > - be easily read and edited by humans > - support repeated sub-sections > - allow multiple entries for parameters within the same section and > sub-section > - allow for lots of comments > > Any suggestions? > > By way of example, I've attached a first cut of the sort of thing I'm > thinking of (and for your amusement I've also attached a fragment of the > existing config file that I derived it from.) > > > -- > Lesley Longhurst (previously Walker) > Linux Systems Administrator > Opus International Consultants Ltd > Email lesley.longhurst at opus.co.nz > Tel +64 4 471 7002, Fax +64 4 473 3017 > http://www.opus.co.nz > Level 9 Majestic Centre, 100 Willis Street, PO Box 12 343 > Wellington, New Zealand > > > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Hosts,"COMMON UTILS", > Include(zzsv01|zysv01),,--delete,"Utils",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils > > Include(zzsv01),,--delete,"OpusCAD partial menu",office/branchapp/opuscad > Include(zysv01),,--delete,"Standard AutoCAD",office/branchapp/acad > > # -- OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) - 50M > # SUE is needed by sites that use Microstran or Google Sketchup. > # Since it's small and developed in-house, it can go to all BOS servers > Include,,--delete,"SUE",office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine > > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # -- dwgtrueconvert2007 - 34M > Hosts,"DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL",,(zzsv01),(zysv01) > Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueconvert2007",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007 > Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/* > Include,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/some.file.or.other > > # -- dwgtrueview2009 - 195M > Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueview2009",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009 > Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/AdminImage/Log/* > > # -- object_enablers - 47M > Include,,--delete,"object_enablers",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers > Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/AdminImage/Log/* > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > label: COMMON UTILS > servers: > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils > description: Utils > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude-server: zzsv01 > exclude-server: zysv01 > > include: office/branchapp/opuscad > description: OpusCAD partial menu > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude-server: zzsv01 > > include: office/branchapp/acad > description: Standard AutoCAD > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude-server: zysv01 > > include: office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine > description: OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) > comment: SUE is needed by sites that use Microstran or Google Sketchup. > comment: Since it's small and developed in-house, it can go to all BOS servers > size: 50M > rsync_flags: --delete > > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > label: DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL > servers: > servers: > exclude-server: zzsv01 > exclude-server: zysv01 > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007 > description: dwgtrueconvert2007 > size: 34M > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/* > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/some.file.or.other > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009 > description: dwgtrueview2009 > size: 195M > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/AdminImage/Log/* > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers > description: object_enablers > size: 47M > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/AdminImage/Log/* > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm -- Martyn Smith Senior Developer Catalyst IT http://www.catalyst.net.nz DDI: +64 4 802 0420 Mail: martyn at catalyst.net.nz From srdjan at catalyst.net.nz Wed May 13 18:26:54 2009 From: srdjan at catalyst.net.nz (Srdjan) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:26:54 +1000 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: <20090514011802.GC29046@flange.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> References: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> <20090514011802.GC29046@flange.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> Message-ID: <4A0B735E.5030203@catalyst.net.nz> I'm not sure it is recommended to edit a YAML file, I think it is possible to introduce invisible errors. But there's a number of Config::* modules, and of course venerable Dumper -> eval solution. Martyn Smith wrote: > Your new format looks very close to YAML :-) (see the YAML) module > > Perhaps you just want to use that as your config format? > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 01:13:32PM +1200, Lesley Longhurst wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Some of you may remember a while ago I brought in some code from work to >> talk about, and it was based around a truly hideous config file. >> >> I'm now working on replacing some of that stuff with a new script, and >> the time has come to invent a better config file format. So, I'm >> interested in recommendations for a good module to use for reading and >> writing complex config files. >> >> Ideally, such a module would meet the following requirements: >> - well-documented >> - currently supported >> - a usable version available in a Debian package for Etch >> >> and the config file itself needs to >> - be easily read and edited by humans >> - support repeated sub-sections >> - allow multiple entries for parameters within the same section and >> sub-section >> - allow for lots of comments >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> By way of example, I've attached a first cut of the sort of thing I'm >> thinking of (and for your amusement I've also attached a fragment of the >> existing config file that I derived it from.) >> >> >> -- >> Lesley Longhurst (previously Walker) >> Linux Systems Administrator >> Opus International Consultants Ltd >> Email lesley.longhurst at opus.co.nz >> Tel +64 4 471 7002, Fax +64 4 473 3017 >> http://www.opus.co.nz >> Level 9 Majestic Centre, 100 Willis Street, PO Box 12 343 >> Wellington, New Zealand >> >> >> > > >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Hosts,"COMMON UTILS", >> Include(zzsv01|zysv01),,--delete,"Utils",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils >> >> Include(zzsv01),,--delete,"OpusCAD partial menu",office/branchapp/opuscad >> Include(zysv01),,--delete,"Standard AutoCAD",office/branchapp/acad >> >> # -- OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) - 50M >> # SUE is needed by sites that use Microstran or Google Sketchup. >> # Since it's small and developed in-house, it can go to all BOS servers >> Include,,--delete,"SUE",office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine >> >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # -- dwgtrueconvert2007 - 34M >> Hosts,"DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL",,(zzsv01),(zysv01) >> Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueconvert2007",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007 >> Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/* >> Include,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/some.file.or.other >> >> # -- dwgtrueview2009 - 195M >> Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueview2009",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009 >> Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/AdminImage/Log/* >> >> # -- object_enablers - 47M >> Include,,--delete,"object_enablers",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers >> Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/AdminImage/Log/* >> > > >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> label: COMMON UTILS >> servers: >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils >> description: Utils >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude-server: zzsv01 >> exclude-server: zysv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/opuscad >> description: OpusCAD partial menu >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude-server: zzsv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/acad >> description: Standard AutoCAD >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude-server: zysv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine >> description: OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) >> comment: SUE is needed by sites that use Microstran or Google Sketchup. >> comment: Since it's small and developed in-house, it can go to all BOS servers >> size: 50M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> label: DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL >> servers: >> servers: >> exclude-server: zzsv01 >> exclude-server: zysv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007 >> description: dwgtrueconvert2007 >> size: 34M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/* >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/some.file.or.other >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009 >> description: dwgtrueview2009 >> size: 195M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/AdminImage/Log/* >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers >> description: object_enablers >> size: 47M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/AdminImage/Log/* >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >> > > From Christopher.Eade at maf.govt.nz Wed May 13 18:33:40 2009 From: Christopher.Eade at maf.govt.nz (Christopher Eade) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:33:40 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: <4A0B735E.5030203@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz><20090514011802.GC29046@flange.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> <4A0B735E.5030203@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: I think YAML doesn't like tabs, which some editors like to automatically do when indenting stuff. Something to watch out for :) Cheers, Chris. -----Original Message----- From: wellington-pm-bounces+christopher.eade=maf.govt.nz at pm.org [mailto:wellington-pm-bounces+christopher.eade=maf.govt.nz at pm.org] On Behalf Of Srdjan Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2009 1:27 p.m. To: Wellington Perl Mongers (Perl user group) Subject: Re: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files I'm not sure it is recommended to edit a YAML file, I think it is possible to introduce invisible errors. But there's a number of Config::* modules, and of course venerable Dumper -> eval solution. Martyn Smith wrote: > Your new format looks very close to YAML :-) (see the YAML) module > > Perhaps you just want to use that as your config format? > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 01:13:32PM +1200, Lesley Longhurst wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Some of you may remember a while ago I brought in some code from work >> to talk about, and it was based around a truly hideous config file. >> >> I'm now working on replacing some of that stuff with a new script, >> and the time has come to invent a better config file format. So, I'm >> interested in recommendations for a good module to use for reading >> and writing complex config files. >> >> Ideally, such a module would meet the following requirements: >> - well-documented >> - currently supported >> - a usable version available in a Debian package for Etch >> >> and the config file itself needs to >> - be easily read and edited by humans >> - support repeated sub-sections >> - allow multiple entries for parameters within the same section and >> sub-section >> - allow for lots of comments >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> By way of example, I've attached a first cut of the sort of thing I'm >> thinking of (and for your amusement I've also attached a fragment of >> the existing config file that I derived it from.) >> >> >> -- >> Lesley Longhurst (previously Walker) >> Linux Systems Administrator >> Opus International Consultants Ltd >> Email lesley.longhurst at opus.co.nz >> Tel +64 4 471 7002, Fax +64 4 473 3017 http://www.opus.co.nz Level 9 >> Majestic Centre, 100 Willis Street, PO Box 12 343 Wellington, New >> Zealand >> >> >> > > >> # >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> # >> # >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- Hosts,"COMMON UTILS", >> Include(zzsv01|zysv01),,--delete,"Utils",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/ >> utils >> >> Include(zzsv01),,--delete,"OpusCAD partial >> menu",office/branchapp/opuscad Include(zysv01),,--delete,"Standard >> AutoCAD",office/branchapp/acad >> >> # -- OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) - 50M # SUE is needed by sites >> that use Microstran or Google Sketchup. >> # Since it's small and developed in-house, it can go to all BOS >> servers >> Include,,--delete,"SUE",office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine >> >> # >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> # >> # >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> # -- dwgtrueconvert2007 - 34M >> Hosts,"DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL",> list>,(zzsv01),(zysv01) >> Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueconvert2007",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dw >> gtrueconvert2007 >> Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/ >> Log/* >> Include,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/ >> Log/some.file.or.other >> >> # -- dwgtrueview2009 - 195M >> Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueview2009",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtr >> ueview2009 >> Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/AdminImage/Log >> /* >> >> # -- object_enablers - 47M >> Include,,--delete,"object_enablers",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/objec >> t_enablers >> Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/AdminImage/Log >> /* >> > > >> # >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> # >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> label: COMMON UTILS >> servers: >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils >> description: Utils >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude-server: zzsv01 >> exclude-server: zysv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/opuscad >> description: OpusCAD partial menu >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude-server: zzsv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/acad >> description: Standard AutoCAD >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude-server: zysv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine >> description: OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) >> comment: SUE is needed by sites that use Microstran or Google Sketchup. >> comment: Since it's small and developed in-house, it can go to all BOS servers >> size: 50M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> >> # >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> # >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> label: DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL >> servers: >> servers: >> exclude-server: zzsv01 >> exclude-server: zysv01 >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007 >> description: dwgtrueconvert2007 >> size: 34M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/* >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/Log/some.file. or.other >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009 >> description: dwgtrueview2009 >> size: 195M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/AdminImage/Log/* >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers >> description: object_enablers >> size: 47M >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/AdminImage/Log/* >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wellington-pm mailing list >> Wellington-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm >> > > _______________________________________________ Wellington-pm mailing list Wellington-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm ######################################################################## This email message and any attachment(s) is intended solely for the addressee(s) named above. The information it contains is confidential and may be legally privileged. Unauthorised use of the message, or the information it contains, may be unlawful. If you have received this message by mistake please call the sender immediately on 64 4 8940100 or notify us by return email and erase the original message and attachments. Thank you. The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry accepts no responsibility for changes made to this email or to any attachments after transmission from the office. ######################################################################## From grant at mclean.net.nz Wed May 13 18:42:22 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:42:22 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> References: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <1242265342.1489.51.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 13:13 +1200, Lesley Longhurst wrote: > I'm interested in recommendations for a good module to use for reading > and writing complex config files. This is one of those area where "there's more than one way to do it" and the decision generally boils down to personal preference. I used to think that XML was a good choice for such things. In fact the reason I wrote XML::Simple was to parse config files like this: http://perl-xml.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/perl-xml/xml-simple/t/srt.xml?revision=1.2&view=markup Unfortunately projects like Tomcat took to XML configs in a big way and the results were universally hideous. XML is no longer a popular option. The example you posted of the direction your thoughts are heading is remarkably similar to YAML. The problem with YAML is that for humans it's read only. Sure, in theory it's possible to open a YAML file in a text editor and change it - good luck with that in practice. JSON is kind of like YAML but much simpler (the YAML spec is even bigger than the XML spec). It's more free-form than YAML so as long as you stick to a few simple rules it's much harder to screw up. JSON files will need to contain syntax elements like [ .. ] for lists and { .. } for hash-style key/value sets. I think that makes them clearer and more explicit than YAML but that's just one opinion. An advantage of XML (at least in theory) is that you can validate a config to ensure it is syntactically correct and that it conforms to some sort of schema. If there is an error in your config file it's far preferable to be told immediately than to have things appear to work and then fail in mysterious ways later. I recommend RelaxNG for schemas, but if you go down that route it may seriously increase the number of extra modules you need on every machine where your code runs. Even without XML, it's possible to validate the format of your data structure (ie: what keys are allowed, what the valid set of possible values is etc) at the Perl level. Data::Rx is a modern tool for this. The other advice that I would offer is to write your own class for reading config files. Even if you end up using YAML, XML or something else, all your custom stuff will be in one place - rather than scattered through a bunch of scripts. If you need to fix it or change it then you'll only have to do it in one place. Your scripts might include one line like this: use MyAppConfig qw($app_config); and that might be enough to identify a configuration file based on the script name (in $0) or command-line arguments (in @ARGV); read and validate the file; and return the results as say a hashref or even an object directly into the variable '$app_config'. There are many ways you could do it but you'll want to keep the per-script overhead low. Cheers Grant From dan.horne at redbone.co.nz Wed May 13 20:01:09 2009 From: dan.horne at redbone.co.nz (Dan Horne) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:01:09 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> References: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <687D524E-FD02-4072-821B-F8273FB8D9E8@redbone.co.nz> Your requirements - if not your example file - seem ideally suited to Config::General (i don't know about the Debian bit, however) On 14/05/2009, at 01:13 PM, Lesley Longhurst wrote: > Hi all, > Some of you may remember a while ago I brought in some code from > work to talk about, and it was based around a truly hideous config > file. > > I'm now working on replacing some of that stuff with a new script, > and the time has come to invent a better config file format. So, I'm > interested in recommendations for a good module to use for reading > and writing complex config files. > > Ideally, such a module would meet the following requirements: > - well-documented > - currently supported > - a usable version available in a Debian package for Etch > > and the config file itself needs to > - be easily read and edited by humans > - support repeated sub-sections > - allow multiple entries for parameters within the same section and > sub-section > - allow for lots of comments > > Any suggestions? > > By way of example, I've attached a first cut of the sort of thing > I'm thinking of (and for your amusement I've also attached a > fragment of the existing config file that I derived it from.) > > > -- > Lesley Longhurst (previously Walker) > Linux Systems Administrator > Opus International Consultants Ltd > Email lesley.longhurst at opus.co.nz > Tel +64 4 471 7002, Fax +64 4 473 3017 > http://www.opus.co.nz > Level 9 Majestic Centre, 100 Willis Street, PO Box 12 343 > Wellington, New Zealand > > > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Hosts,"COMMON UTILS", > Include(zzsv01|zysv01),,--delete,"Utils",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/ > utils > > Include(zzsv01),,--delete,"OpusCAD partial menu",office/branchapp/ > opuscad > Include(zysv01),,--delete,"Standard AutoCAD",office/branchapp/acad > > # -- OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) - 50M > # SUE is needed by sites that use Microstran or Google Sketchup. > # Since it's small and developed in-house, it can go to all BOS > servers > Include,,--delete,"SUE",office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine > > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # -- dwgtrueconvert2007 - 34M > Hosts,"DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL", a list>,(zzsv01),(zysv01) > Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueconvert2007",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/ > dwgtrueconvert2007 > Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/ > Log/* > Include,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/AdminImage/ > Log/some.file.or.other > > # -- dwgtrueview2009 - 195M > Include,,--delete,"dwgtrueview2009",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/ > dwgtrueview2009 > Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/AdminImage/ > Log/* > > # -- object_enablers - 47M > Include,,--delete,"object_enablers",office/branchapp/cad_deploy/ > object_enablers > Exclude,,,,office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/AdminImage/ > Log/* > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > label: COMMON UTILS > servers: > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils > description: Utils > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude-server: zzsv01 > exclude-server: zysv01 > > include: office/branchapp/opuscad > description: OpusCAD partial menu > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude-server: zzsv01 > > include: office/branchapp/acad > description: Standard AutoCAD > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude-server: zysv01 > > include: office/branchapp/OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine > description: OpusNetSoftwareUpdateEngine (SUE) > comment: SUE is needed by sites that use Microstran or > Google Sketchup. > comment: Since it's small and developed in-house, it can > go to all BOS servers > size: 50M > rsync_flags: --delete > > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > label: DWG VIEWERS ETC FOR ALL > servers: > servers: > exclude-server: zzsv01 > exclude-server: zysv01 > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007 > description: dwgtrueconvert2007 > size: 34M > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/ > AdminImage/Log/* > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueconvert2007/ > AdminImage/Log/some.file.or.other > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009 > description: dwgtrueview2009 > size: 195M > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/dwgtrueview2009/ > AdminImage/Log/* > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers > description: object_enablers > size: 47M > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/object_enablers/ > AdminImage/Log/* > _______________________________________________ > Wellington-pm mailing list > Wellington-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm From lrw at clear.net.nz Wed May 13 23:04:49 2009 From: lrw at clear.net.nz (Lesley Longhurst) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:04:49 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> References: <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <4A0BB481.2030802@clear.net.nz> Thanks for all the input. Looking at what we already have installed on our servers, it's probably either going to be XML::Simple or YAML. Not that that it's hard to install a CPAN module or anything, but I really dislike unnecessary bloatage. (On further reflection I've decided that for my current purpose human editing may not be required after all) Lesley Longhurst wrote: > Hi all, > Some of you may remember a while ago I brought in some code from work > to talk about, and it was based around a truly hideous config file. > > I'm now working on replacing some of that stuff with a new script, and > the time has come to invent a better config file format. So, I'm > interested in recommendations for a good module to use for reading and > writing complex config files. > > Ideally, such a module would meet the following requirements: > - well-documented > - currently supported > - a usable version available in a Debian package for Etch > > and the config file itself needs to > - be easily read and edited by humans > - support repeated sub-sections > - allow multiple entries for parameters within the same section and > sub-section > - allow for lots of comments > > Any suggestions? > > By way of example, I've attached a first cut of the sort of thing I'm > thinking of (and for your amusement I've also attached a fragment of > the existing config file that I derived it from.) From michael at livia.co.nz Thu May 14 14:50:21 2009 From: michael at livia.co.nz (michael at livia.co.nz) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:50:21 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 May 2009 13:13:32 +1200." <4A0B703C.2020109@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: Lesley Longhurst writes: >label: COMMON UTILS > servers: > > include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils > description: Utils > rsync_flags: --delete > exclude-server: zzsv01 > exclude-server: zysv01 Just as an aside, your problem here looks to be file distribution. Have you considered using Real OS Packages, or rdist, or radmind, or puppet, or cfengine (ok, don't use cfengine), or, well, anything that isn't a hand hacked wrapper around rsync commands? Michael. From lrw at clear.net.nz Thu May 14 15:23:52 2009 From: lrw at clear.net.nz (Lesley Longhurst) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:52 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Complex config files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0C99F8.5000505@clear.net.nz> michael at diaspora.gen.nz wrote: > Lesley Longhurst writes: > >> label: COMMON UTILS >> servers: >> >> include: office/branchapp/cad_deploy/utils >> description: Utils >> rsync_flags: --delete >> exclude-server: zzsv01 >> exclude-server: zysv01 >> > > Just as an aside, your problem here looks to be file distribution. > Have you considered using Real OS Packages, or rdist, or radmind, or > puppet, or cfengine (ok, don't use cfengine), or, well, anything that > isn't a hand hacked wrapper around rsync commands? > > Michael. > What, and take away my excuse to write Perl code? :-) I confess I haven't looked particularly closely at those things, but regardless of what mechanism is used to send the stuff out, we still need need to build a nice non-technical interface to allow someone other than me to control who gets what and when. Also, this is just the simple part of the task, the job gets much worse and I think it's pretty unlikely that this particular wheel has been previously invented. I do take your point though, and thanks for the reminder, I will go and do some reading. Maybe some of those tools will help with part of it. L. From JDAfu2aDM4VF5 at perform.nospymail.com Sun May 24 20:25:54 2009 From: JDAfu2aDM4VF5 at perform.nospymail.com (VPeuWzSme3ZPzsXHjF2wHz) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 23:25:54 -0400 Subject: [Wellington-pm] Perl Assignment Message-ID: Dear Perl Mongers: At: http://perform.cotse.net/ is > Perl Assignment part 1 and part 2 I'm a stock trader using Perl to analyze stock data. A formula is past my Perl writing capability because of expressions IF THEN and EXPONENTIAL AVERAGES. If a hardy soul would like to try renumeration is possible. -- Kenneth Pollock . mobil: +64 21 1230962 nz at perform.cotse.net . From grant at mclean.net.nz Sun May 24 22:44:41 2009 From: grant at mclean.net.nz (Grant McLean) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 17:44:41 +1200 Subject: [Wellington-pm] [Fwd: [pm_groups] White Camel Nominations] Message-ID: <1243230281.9479.18.camel@putnam.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz> -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Every year the White Camels are presented for service to the Perl > community. > > If you look at the previous winners, you'll notice that these are mostly > unsung heroes, like previous awardee Eric Cholet, the human moderator of > so many Perl mailing lists, or Jay Hannah, one of the people running > pm.org (if you ever created/maintained a pm group, chances are that Jay > walked you through the process). > > Some of these people may be well known, like Allison Randal or Randal > Schwartz, while others may be complete strangers to at least part of the > globe, like Josh McAdams or Jay. Some of them may be extreme Perl > hackers who created the original JAPH, but they actually received this > award as a recognition for their community contributions to Perl rather > than for their programming ability. > > That's not to say a great hacker can't receive the award, but you don't > have to be one in order to be eligible. > > That being said, the nomination process for the 2009 White Camels is now > open. > > If you think there's someone who deserves a White Camel, this is the > time for you to send in your nominations. Send them to > whitecamel-suggestions at pm.org, if possible with a subject along the > lines of "White Camel Nomination :: $name". Make sure you properly > identify the nominee and tell us why you think that's a worthy > nomination. > > Don't go thinking "nah, somebody else will do it" because: a) everybody > else may be thinking the same, and b) you may state your case > differently than the next person. > > We'll be receiving nominations until June 21, 2009, by midnight, but > don't wait up or you'll forget. Do it now! 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Our courses work around YOUR schedule, not the other way > around. And within months, not only will you have the University of > Illinois Certificate to display on your resume, you'll also have a > portfolio of projects that are sure to impress in your interviews! > > OST's full-price tuitions are already lower than comparable continuing > education or community college courses. However, as an O'Reilly User > Group member, you save an additional 30% on all the courses in the > following University of Illinois Certificate Series: > > > -New--Database Administration Certificate > -Java Programming > -PHP/SQL Programming > -Linux/Unix System Administration > -Web Programming > -Open Source Programming > -.NET Programming > -Client-Side Web Programming featuring AJAX > > To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" good for a 30% discount, > in Step #2 of the enrollment process. Each course comes with a free > O'Reilly book and a 7-day money-back guarantee. > > Register online: > http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zm225e7o9kii5c500md48t4bam150bdf8itupqeg > > (This discount is not combinable with other offers.) > > ================================================ > News From O'Reilly & Beyond > ================================================ > --------------------- > News & Blogs > --------------------- > RubyLearning Interview: Author David Griffiths, "Head First Rails" > > http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zdq5kv0886e2pccnpk4g0ktffdd53n0rq051vc48 > > > Why $9.99 Won't Always Be an eBook Pricing Ceiling > > Have you stumbled across any of those Kindle owners who get angry > anytime they see an ebook price over $9.99? How about publishers who > insist on maintaining their print list price for the e-version? Btw, for > the record, at O'Reilly we typically fall somewhere in between; our > "digital list price" is generally less than the print list price and, of > course, Amazon is free to discount to an even lower price. As a > consumer, when I see a Kindle price over $9.99 I'm highly likely to skip > it. > http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zic4s1pv5ivnhi6ne032etuh6jmq79e93nl8k6j8 > > > More Geo-Games: Ship Simulator on Google Earth > > At Google I/O 2008 the Google Earth API was released. It brought Google > Earth's 3D capabilities to the web (with the help of browser > extensions). Since that release they've started supporting Macs. One > really nice part of the Google Earth API is the ability to create games > in the 3D world. > http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z6jhp99pmhofekaq8b9pq80uajsplbu39npb92e0 > > > Scribd Store a Welcome Addition to Ebook Market (and 650 O'Reilly > Titles Included) > > The document-sharing site Scribd has launched a new "Scribd Store" > selling view and download access to documents and books. As part of the > launch, there are now more than 650 O'Reilly ebooks now available for > preview and sale in the Scribd store, and all include DRM-free PDF > downloads with purchase. (Scribd will soon be adding EPUB as a format, > and we'll make that available as soon as possible.) > http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zeqkrjopevgq5436g8usrq7up28ittkq6mhjoct0 > > > Being a Suggested User Leads to Thousands of Twitter Followers > > Ever since Twitter started suggesting accounts to new users, it was > clear that those on the suggested users list were gaining thousands of > followers. Setting aside the fact that number of followers is a poor > gauge of influence (see our Twitter report for details), I wanted to > know how many followers a suggested account gains by appearing on the > list. > http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z19ufbdk7e022pi13kpostlnnrkb8tcu1sv42tp8 > > > Announcing InsideRIA Conference > > Yep, you heard correctly in association with the 360Conferences guys, > InsideRIA is having its first conference August 23-24, 2009 in San Jose, > CA at the eBay facilities. This 2-day event will get into the nitty > gritty of developing for the Rich Internet Application (RIA) space. > Sunday will be hands-on workshops to get you familiar with a few of the > RIA platforms. Monday will be a full day of sessions with 3 distinct > tracks: Development, Design/User Experience and Business Development. > All 3 tracks will be aimed at the RIA platform in general. > http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zp63026p5f2ro71mc8u47bf9ujrkhhvt3lv4mmj8 > > > Until next time-- > > Marsee Henon > > > ---------- > > O'Reilly - Spreading the knowledge of innovators | oreilly.com > > ---------- > > You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee at oreilly.com. > > O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-7000 > > Forward this announcement - http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z884gjuqb891d2jr3cnbt4lbeg0mg3gp8obp2v98 > > > >