From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Fri Aug 6 16:53:02 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Fri Aug 6 16:53:13 2004 Subject: [VPM] The Perl Review v1 #0 - I have two copies Message-ID: Hello Victoria.pm, Due to some kind of mistake, partly mine and partly the publisher's, I have ended up with two subscriptions, or two first issues (Volume 1 Issue 0, dated Summer 2004), of The Perl Review; both arrived together in the mail today. I only paid for one US$20 Intl subscription, via the Paypal link, but I had previously submitted my contact info as being interested; apparently they didn't check for duplicates and/or it is technically free with optional donation. Either way, I plan to rectify this so I only get one copy of future issues. Meanwhile, I have an extra first issue. For those of you who haven't heard of this new publication by brian d foy, the info is at http://www.ThePerlReview.com/. I plan to bring the duplicate to the August meeting, either for the library if we're building one, or as a general door prize. It's possible that Peter has a copy of his own as they were at OSCON. I plan to contact brian d foy tomorrow to resolve the issue, so I just get what I pay for. I would do it now, but I'm waiting a day in case any of you want to weigh in on the matter. Good day. -- Darren Duncan P.S. I *could* potentially mail the duplicate back, but I thought that would be more trouble than it's worth for both parties. From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Sat Aug 7 05:38:20 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Sat Aug 7 05:38:32 2004 Subject: [VPM] ANNOUNCE: Rosetta/SQL-SyntaxModel developer release #1 Message-ID: 2004-08-06 Darren Duncan -------------------------------------------------- Finally, after 19 months of waiting, since the first notice of this project was uploaded to CPAN (2003-01-05), I am pleased to announce that the first developer release of my Rosetta database portability framework is now availaable. These following distributions that comprise the framework should appear on your favorite CPAN mirrors within the next few hours or days: * Locale-KeyedText-0.06.tar.gz (Locale::KeyedText v0.06) * SQL-SyntaxModel-0.37.tar.gz (SQL::SyntaxModel v0.24) * Rosetta-0.32.tar.gz (Rosetta v0.16) * Rosetta-Extensions-0.06.tar.gz (various and sundry) My CPAN maintainer ID is DUNCAND. (Note that some CPAN testers may give Fails by mistake because they don't install/test dependencies first.) In addition to CPAN, you should also find the modules here: http://darrenduncan.net/d/perl/ . These distributions are listed in dependency order, with each one being dependant on those above it in the list; at the same time, each distribution is independently useful apart from the framework, and apart from any distributions that appear below it in the list. The first 3 distributions have zero additional dependencies. Rosetta-Extensions has an additional dependency in the DBI module, along with various DBD modules of your choice (but only DBD::SQLite and DBD::MySQL have been tested so far). I have labelled this collection a "developer release" because, while the included specification documents and code cover a wide and complete-looking range of functionality, only a small fraction of "real world" functionality has so far been tested and known to work, 100% (functional: auto-detecting a list of database instances, opening a database connection, and closing it). Other important "real world" functionality like standard data definition, data manipulation, querying, and schema importing, is "mostly done" but requires some glue code and testing. I expect to have additional developer releases up over the next few weeks that have these finished and tested. The reason that this is the first official ANNOUNCE email, despite a 19 month period involving 64 uploads to CPAN ("release early and often"), is that today is the first time that the framework *as a whole* delivers some working "real world" functionality. Until now, while component parts have been functional for quite awhile (particularly Locale-KeyedText and SQL-SyntaxModel), you would have needed to write substantial additional code to actually talk to a database; hence I waited. During the next few weeks, the Rosetta framework should only be relevant to early adopters, who would start writing practical code against it prior to being able to test that code, or likewise figuring it into near future project design plans. Please download and poke at it (the code should be very clean, too). While it is pre-alpha, I would say that the API is fairly stable now; it and the framework's general structure should not be changing greatly, except in response to feedback. Mostly whats left is some implementation details. Now is as good a time as any for potential adopters to start looking closely at what it does, how it works, and how or when to use it. This especially includes those people who maintain the various "object persistence" modules who yearn to support more than one or two databases. To a lesser extent, it also includes those that make DBD modules, since there are potentially some things you can do that would make my job easier. Note that all of my modules are pure Perl 5, but they were also designed to be easy to convert into either Parrot assembly / IMC or plain C at some time in the future (SQL::SyntaxModel in particular). I fully plan to make a Parrot version, in fact, which all Parrot-hosted languages can exploit, and do it early. I welcome any feedback, suggestions, or feature requests that you have (including any about the licences), both good or bad, at perl@DarrenDuncan.net. But keep in mind that I already have a list of what still needs doing, so you don't have to point out the obvious gaps. Thank you and have a good day. -- Darren Duncan P.S. Note that 'Rosetta' (cdpOg) is already registered with the Perl 5 Module List since 2003-01-21. I also plan to register 'Locale::KeyedText' (cdpOl) and 'SQL::SyntaxModel' (cdpOg) there soon, following "discussion". I do not plan to register any other associated modules in the near term. P.P.S. Any further ANNOUNCE emails will have the more standard appearance of just listing deltas from previous releases. This one couldn't, obviously. From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Aug 10 11:57:40 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Tue Aug 10 12:06:58 2004 Subject: [VPM] DBD::SQLite2 and next meeting Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040810093139.0274e790@shell2.webquarry.com> For those of you who were following the DBD::SQLite discussions ensuing from our last meeting, that module has recently been upgraded to use the spiffier new SQLite version 3. A new module, DBD::SQLite2, has just been released, which has this to say about itself: Note: DBD::SQLite2 is the old version of DBD::SQLite, and embeds version 2.x.x of the sqlite library. The current version of DBD::SQLite embeds version 3 (or possibly later if I forget to update this file). This release is designed to allow you to have both versions installed on the same system. Looks like our next meeting will be on the 17th. Abram, are you up? -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From abez at abez.ca Tue Aug 10 16:55:45 2004 From: abez at abez.ca (abez) Date: Tue Aug 10 16:56:08 2004 Subject: [VPM] DBD::SQLite2 and next meeting In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040810093139.0274e790@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: I tried booking the room yesterday we'll see how it goes ;) Yes it will be on Parser::RecDescent abram On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Peter Scott wrote: > For those of you who were following the DBD::SQLite discussions ensuing > from our last meeting, that module has recently been upgraded to use > the spiffier new SQLite version 3. A new module, DBD::SQLite2, has > just been released, which has this to say about itself: > > Note: DBD::SQLite2 is the old version of DBD::SQLite, and embeds > version 2.x.x of the sqlite library. The current version of > DBD::SQLite embeds version 3 (or possibly later if I forget to > update this file). This release is designed to allow you to have > both versions installed on the same system. > > Looks like our next meeting will be on the 17th. Abram, are you up? > -- abez ------------------------------------------ http://www.abez.ca/ Abram Hindle (abez@abez.ca) ------------------------------------------ abez From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Tue Aug 10 18:12:36 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Tue Aug 10 18:12:46 2004 Subject: [VPM] DBD::SQLite2 and next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:55 PM -0700 8/10/04, abez wrote: >I tried booking the room yesterday we'll see how it goes ;) >Yes it will be on Parser::RecDescent >abram I have updated the website ( http://victoria.pm.org/ ) about this. August 17, 2004 Meeting Abram Hindle will give a presentation on Parse::RecDescent. Darren Duncan also has a duplicate printed copy of "The Perl Review" v1 #0 which will be given away. The above text on the web site has embedded hyperlinks to http://search.cpan.org/dist/Parse-RecDescent/ and http://www.ThePerlReview.com/ . -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Aug 11 11:57:59 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 11 12:07:04 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers meeting August 17 Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040811095229.0258ebf0@shell2.webquarry.com> Victoria.pm will meet at its regular date and time on Tuesday, July 20, 7pm, at UVic. The meeting room will be confirmed in another email the day before. (Abram, please let me know by *two* days before :-) Abram Hindle will give a talk on Parse::RecDescent. I am looking forward to this as I have a few projects coming up that need or will benefit from this. Basically, the answer to any question starting, "I want to parse a grammar/syntax/language" is Parse::RecDescent. Created by Damian Conway, this module does everything you can think of and a lot more besides to do with parsing and grammars, and makes it so easy that there's no point in considering "roll-your-own" as a solution again. Other topics to be covered as time permits; make requests for anything particular. Peter Scott will give away a small book of Tim O'Reilly's thinkings on Open Source and the future (not available in stores!) Darren Duncan also has a duplicate printed copy of "The Perl Review" v1 #0 which will be given away. (Courtesy copy to VLUG members by permission of the list manager. Victoria.pm's home page is and contains meeting information.) -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Wed Aug 11 12:40:06 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 11 12:40:16 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers meeting August 17 In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040811095229.0258ebf0@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20040811095229.0258ebf0@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: I just updated the http://victoria.pm.org/ website with this info. (By the way, it's *not* July 20.) -- Darren Duncan At 9:57 AM -0700 8/11/04, Peter Scott wrote: >Victoria.pm will meet at its regular date and time on Tuesday, July >20, 7pm, at UVic. The meeting room will be confirmed in another >email the day before. (Abram, please let me know by *two* days >before :-) > >Abram Hindle will give a talk on Parse::RecDescent. I am looking >forward to this as I have a few projects coming up that need or will >benefit from this. Basically, the answer to any question starting, >"I want to parse a grammar/syntax/language" is Parse::RecDescent. >Created by Damian Conway, this module does everything you can think >of and a lot more besides to do with parsing and grammars, and makes >it so easy that there's no point in considering "roll-your-own" as a >solution again. > >Other topics to be covered as time permits; make requests for >anything particular. > >Peter Scott will give away a small book of Tim O'Reilly's thinkings >on Open Source and the future (not available in stores!) Darren >Duncan also has a duplicate printed copy of "The Perl Review" v1 #0 >which will be given away. > >(Courtesy copy to VLUG members by permission of the list manager. >Victoria.pm's home page is and contains >meeting information.) >-- >Peter Scott >Pacific Systems Design Technologies >http://www.perldebugged.com/ >*** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Aug 11 12:36:02 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 11 12:42:23 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers meeting August 17 - correction Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040811103512.025840f8@shell2.webquarry.com> [Subject was right, body was legacy, now fixed - thanks, Adam!] Victoria.pm will meet at its regular date and time on Tuesday, August 17, 7pm, at UVic. The meeting room will be confirmed in another email the day before. (Abram, please let me know by *two* days before :-) Abram Hindle will give a talk on Parse::RecDescent. I am looking forward to this as I have a few projects coming up that need or will benefit from this. Basically, the answer to any question starting, "I want to parse a grammar/syntax/language" is Parse::RecDescent. Created by Damian Conway, this module does everything you can think of and a lot more besides to do with parsing and grammars, and makes it so easy that there's no point in considering "roll-your-own" as a solution again. Other topics to be covered as time permits; make requests for anything particular. Peter Scott will give away a small book of Tim O'Reilly's thinkings on Open Source and the future (not available in stores!) Darren Duncan also has a duplicate printed copy of "The Perl Review" v1 #0 which will be given away. (Courtesy copy to VLUG members by permission of the list manager. Victoria.pm's home page is and contains meeting information.) -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From Peter at PSDT.com Mon Aug 16 04:05:00 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Mon Aug 16 10:29:15 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers meeting tomorrow Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040811120415.02497500@shell2.webquarry.com> Victoria.pm will meet at its regular date and time tomorrow, Tuesday, August 17, 7pm, at UVic. *** The meeting room is *different* from customary: DSB113 (David Strong Building). http://www.uvic.ca and look for Maps if you need directions. Abram Hindle will give a talk on Parse::RecDescent. I am looking forward to this as I have a few projects coming up that need or will benefit from this. Basically, the answer to any question starting, "I want to parse a grammar/syntax/language" is Parse::RecDescent. Created by Damian Conway, this module does everything you can think of and a lot more besides to do with parsing and grammars, and makes it so easy that there's no point in considering "roll-your-own" as a solution again. Other topics to be covered as time permits; make requests for anything particular. Peter Scott will give away a small book of Tim O'Reilly's thinkings on Open Source and the future (not available in stores!) Darren Duncan also has a duplicate printed copy of "The Perl Review" v1 #0 which will be given away. (Courtesy copy to VLUG members by permission of the list manager. Victoria.pm's home page is and contains meeting information.) -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Aug 16 12:40:21 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Mon Aug 16 12:40:31 2004 Subject: [VPM] Victoria Perl Mongers meeting tomorrow In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040811120415.02497500@shell2.webquarry.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20040811120415.02497500@shell2.webquarry.com> Message-ID: At 2:05 AM -0700 8/16/04, Peter Scott wrote: >Victoria.pm will meet at its regular date and time tomorrow, >Tuesday, August 17, 7pm, at UVic. > >*** The meeting room is *different* from customary: DSB113 (David >Strong Building). >http://www.uvic.ca and look for Maps if you need directions. The web site is now updated with the new locale information. -- Darren Duncan From Peter at PSDT.com Tue Aug 17 20:42:49 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Tue Aug 17 20:50:41 2004 Subject: [VPM] Will be late Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040817184214.025379b0@shell2.webquarry.com> Anyone going to the meeting who gets this... let the folks know I'll be 30 minutes late please... From abez at abez.ca Wed Aug 18 00:26:10 2004 From: abez at abez.ca (abez) Date: Wed Aug 18 00:26:30 2004 Subject: [VPM] Parse::RecDescent Message-ID: http://abez.ca/supernaut/recdescentabram.tar.gz Files http://abez.ca/supernaut/recdescentparserabram.pdf Slides -- abez ------------------------------------------ http://www.abez.ca/ Abram Hindle (abez@abez.ca) ------------------------------------------ abez From abez at abez.ca Wed Aug 18 01:11:49 2004 From: abez at abez.ca (abez) Date: Wed Aug 18 01:12:12 2004 Subject: [VPM] Oh... Message-ID: brian d foy gave this example in the Perl Review v.1.0 instead of my $pie = ""; if (..) { $pie = 1; } elsif (..) { $pie = 2; } elsif (..) { $pie = 4; } elsif (..) { $pie = 8; } You could do... my $pie = do { if (..) { 1 } elsif (..) { 2 } elsif (..) { 4 } elsif (..) { 8 } } saves typing.. -- abez ------------------------------------------ http://www.abez.ca/ Abram Hindle (abez@abez.ca) ------------------------------------------ abez From Peter at PSDT.com Wed Aug 18 13:38:41 2004 From: Peter at PSDT.com (Peter Scott) Date: Wed Aug 18 13:49:03 2004 Subject: [VPM] Oh... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040818113724.02768ef0@shell2.webquarry.com> At 11:11 PM 8/17/2004, abez wrote: >brian d foy gave this example in the Perl Review v.1.0 > >instead of > >my $pie = ""; >if (..) { $pie = 1; } >elsif (..) { $pie = 2; } >elsif (..) { $pie = 4; } >elsif (..) { $pie = 8; } > >You could do... > >my $pie = do { > if (..) { 1 } > elsif (..) { 2 } > elsif (..) { 4 } > elsif (..) { 8 } >} > >saves typing.. Damian Conway in his "Perl Best Practices" presentation recommends: $pie = .. ? 1 : .. ? 2 : .. ? 4 : 8; Change indentation to suit. -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies http://www.perldebugged.com/ *** New! *** http://www.perlmedic.com/ From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Wed Aug 18 16:11:17 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Wed Aug 18 16:11:30 2004 Subject: [VPM] Parse::RecDescent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:26 PM -0700 8/17/04, abez wrote: >http://abez.ca/supernaut/recdescentabram.tar.gz >Files >http://abez.ca/supernaut/recdescentparserabram.pdf >Slides I have added these to the Downloads section. In addition, I copied the files in the Links section; the Links section is no more, with Downloads now having all 4 sets of Abram's talks, all hosted on the VPM server. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Aug 30 17:37:07 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Mon Aug 30 17:37:20 2004 Subject: [VPM] new Perl.com article up that I helped with Message-ID: Today a new article is up on Perl.com titled "Content Management with Bricolage" and written by David Wheeler: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/08/27/bricolage.html When this article was being written, in early July of this year, I was consulted by email and gave feedback for a draft version of the article. Several of my edited paragraphs and other suggestions appear in the final version, and I am credited for my feedback on the bottom of the third page. I'm letting you guys know since this is the first time I have ever been credited for anything published on Perl.com, so at least to me that is significant. Note that Perl.com seems to be having server troubles, so if you get a 500 error on a page, just hit Reload once or thrice. FYI: Around early July, I had also been briefly discussing the possibility of the next major Bricolage version, 2.0, using my Rosetta database portability library so that it works on more than just PostgreSQL. -- Darren Duncan From darren at DarrenDuncan.net Mon Aug 30 18:43:32 2004 From: darren at DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan) Date: Mon Aug 30 18:43:45 2004 Subject: [VPM] MakeMaker question Message-ID: I have a question on what kind of Makefile.PL change is required to accomplish something simple, but I didn't find the answer in the MakeMaker documentation. More than one of my pure-Perl CPAN distributions contains extra .pm files which are only used during 'make test', but I have so far had to put them in my 'lib' directory with the normal modules so that they can be seen during 'make test. However, this pollutes my 'lib' directory un-necessarily, as well as the user's install dirs, as the distro would install the test libraries too. I would like to get these for-testing modules to sit in the 't' directory, where the main test scripts are. Here's an example, a current Makefile from one distro: use ExtUtils::MakeMaker; WriteMakefile( NAME => 'Locale::KeyedText', VERSION_FROM => 'lib/Locale/KeyedText.pm', # finds $VERSION PREREQ_PM => { }, ); Now, the current (0.06) manifest, to illustrate file locations: ChangeLog INSTALL lib/Locale/KeyedText.pm lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_A_L_Eng.pm lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_A_L_Fre.pm lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_B_L_Eng.pm lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_B_L_Fre.pm LICENSE Makefile.PL MANIFEST META.yml Module meta-data (added by MakeMaker) ReadMe t/Locale_KeyedText.t TODO I would like the file layout to be like this instead: ChangeLog INSTALL lib/Locale/KeyedText.pm LICENSE Makefile.PL MANIFEST META.yml Module meta-data (added by MakeMaker) ReadMe t/Locale_KeyedText.t t/lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_A_L_Eng.pm t/lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_A_L_Fre.pm t/lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_B_L_Eng.pm t/lib/t_Locale_KeyedText_B_L_Fre.pm TODO The t/lib/ could be replaced with just t/ if necessary. My searches to the ExtUtils::MakeMaker documentation did not reveal any options that would let me do what I wanted with simplicity. The nearest choice I saw seemed to allow me to choose explicitly which /lib files would be installed at the end, which is a partial solution, but not really what I want. Anyone familiar with MakeMaker that can help me with this? Namely, what do I change in my Makefile.PL to achieve the desired effect? Thank you. -- Darren Duncan