From arocker at Vex.Net Wed Nov 3 06:44:41 2021 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 09:44:41 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] Message-ID: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since then? ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Date: Wed, November 3, 2021 3:48 am To: vim_use at googlegroups.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2021-11-03 15:21, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/ql30pm/vim_turns_30_today/ > > Happy 30th Birthday!!! Thanks Bram. From indy at indigostar.com Wed Nov 3 07:47:02 2021 From: indy at indigostar.com (Indy Singh) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:47:02 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> References: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> Message-ID: <058A565813F94AA0A2DA1F7E59C3B595@indy> What did people use 31 years ago before Vim? Text editing is always a fascinating subject to me. I know in the 70's I used paper tape and punch cards. Then an IBM mainframe online editor called Electric. In 1980 I wrote my own editor in Fortran to run on a Teradyne minicomputer. There was some sort of online edit on PDP minicomputers. The 80's are a bit hazy now. That's when IBM Pc's came out. After some head-scratching I recall I used the Lattice C compiler, which was Microsoft's first C compiler. In the 90's it was a Modula 2 IDE, along with Microsoft's Visual C/C++ IDE. Indy Singh www.indigostar.com -----Original Message----- From: arocker at Vex.Net Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 9:44 AM To: Toronto PerlMongers Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since then? ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Date: Wed, November 3, 2021 3:48 am To: vim_use at googlegroups.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2021-11-03 15:21, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/ql30pm/vim_turns_30_today/ > > Happy 30th Birthday!!! Thanks Bram. _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From talexb at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 08:11:04 2021 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 11:11:04 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: <058A565813F94AA0A2DA1F7E59C3B595@indy> References: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <058A565813F94AA0A2DA1F7E59C3B595@indy> Message-ID: I started using an IBM PC for development in Fall of '85; to begin, I used a terrible editor called XTC from a company called Wendin. They claimed to be able to shell out to run make, but it didn't work. I moved to a much better editor called Brief from (heh) Underware. That editor was super fast, and it did allow me to shell out to run make -- my first IDE. Like Indy, I used the Lattice C compiler -- expensive, but it worked great. After that, I used the Turbo C IDE to write code -- only $99 (or something), and it had an editor, compiler, make, linker and debugger all packaged to work together. Amazing value. Before that, in the early 80's, I used EDT on a VAX/VMS, while some of the hard-core guys used TECO, which was essentially a line editor. Like Indy, the late development details of the 70's and early 80's are a little vague for me. I would learn about a new system by using whatever editor was available, and I would get shown how to build, run and debug stuff. Picking up a new environment was just what you were used to doing. I do remember in the mid 90's discovering an awesome linker (an alternative to the slow Microsoft product) called Blinker -- it was lightning fast. Loved that product. I also used 4DOS in the late 80's, a command.com replacement that gave you command line editing (the kind of stuff that's standard in bash). It made using the DOS command line so much easier. Alex On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM Indy Singh wrote: > What did people use 31 years ago before Vim? > > Text editing is always a fascinating subject to me. > > I know in the 70's I used paper tape and punch cards. Then an IBM > mainframe > online editor called Electric. > > In 1980 I wrote my own editor in Fortran to run on a Teradyne > minicomputer. > There was some sort of online edit on PDP minicomputers. > > The 80's are a bit hazy now. That's when IBM Pc's came out. After some > head-scratching I recall I used the Lattice C compiler, which was > Microsoft's first C compiler. > > In the 90's it was a Modula 2 IDE, along with Microsoft's Visual C/C++ IDE. > > Indy Singh > www.indigostar.com > -----Original Message----- > From: arocker at Vex.Net > Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 9:44 AM > To: Toronto PerlMongers > Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] > > > How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since then? > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > > Date: Wed, November 3, 2021 3:48 am > To: vim_use at googlegroups.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 2021-11-03 15:21, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote: > > https://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/ql30pm/vim_turns_30_today/ > > > > Happy 30th Birthday!!! Thanks Bram. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Chair, Sponsorship Committee, TPF / https://www.perlfoundation.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at stok.ca Wed Nov 3 10:06:16 2021 From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 13:06:16 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Before vim? vi ?? -- The stok disclaimers apply. mike at stok.ca / mike at stok.co.uk / mike.stok at hey.com http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ On November 3, 2021, Alex Beamish wrote: > I started using an IBM PC for development in Fall of '85; to begin, I > used a terrible editor called XTC from a company called Wendin. They > claimed to be able to shell out to run make, but it didn't work. I > moved to a much better editor called Brief from (heh) Underware. That > editor was super fast, and it did allow me to shell out to run make -- > my first IDE. Like Indy, I used the Lattice C compiler -- expensive, > but it worked great. After that, I used the Turbo C IDE to write code > -- only $99 (or something), and it had an editor, compiler, make, > linker and debugger all packaged to work together. Amazing value. > > Before that, in the early 80's, I used EDT on a VAX/VMS, while some of > the hard-core guys used TECO, which was essentially a line editor. > > Like Indy, the late development details of the 70's and early 80's are > a little vague for me. I would learn about a new system by using > whatever editor was available, and I would get shown how to build, run > and debug stuff. Picking up a new environment was just what you were > used to doing. I do remember in the mid 90's discovering an awesome > linker (an alternative to the slow Microsoft product) called Blinker > -- it was lightning fast. Loved that product. I also used 4DOS in the > late 80's, a command.com replacement that gave > you command line editing (the kind of stuff that's standard in bash). > It made using the DOS command line so much easier. > > Alex > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM Indy Singh > wrote: > What did people use 31 years ago before Vim? > > Text editing is always a fascinating subject to me. > > I know in the 70's I used paper tape and punch cards. Then an IBM > mainframe > online editor called Electric. > > In 1980 I wrote my own editor in Fortran to run on a Teradyne > minicomputer. > There was some sort of online edit on PDP minicomputers. > > The 80's are a bit hazy now. That's when IBM Pc's came out.? After > some > head-scratching I recall I used the Lattice C compiler, which was > Microsoft's first C compiler. > > In the 90's it was a Modula 2 IDE, along with Microsoft's Visual > C/C++ IDE. > > Indy Singh > www.indigostar.com > -----Original Message----- > From: arocker at Vex.Net > Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 9:44 AM > To: Toronto PerlMongers > Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] > > > How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since > then? > > ---------------------------- Original Message > ---------------------------- > > Date:? ? Wed, November 3, 2021 3:48 am > To:? ? ? vim_use at googlegroups.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 2021-11-03 15:21, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote: > > > > > > Happy 30th Birthday!!! Thanks Bram. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > > --? > Alex Beamish > > Software Developer / > > Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / Chair, > Sponsorship Committee, TPF / > Baritone, Operations Manager / > Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdice at pobox.com Wed Nov 3 11:27:37 2021 From: rdice at pobox.com (Richard Dice) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 14:27:37 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ed ed is the Standard Text Editor http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/E/ed.html https://wiki.c2.com/?EdIsTheStandardTextEditor From: patl at athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti) Message-ID: <1991Jul11.031731.9260 at athena.mit.edu> Sender: news at athena.mit.edu (News system) Subject: The True Path (long) Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT Path: ai-lab!mintaka!olivea!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!patl Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 95 Xref: ai-lab alt.religion.emacs:244 alt.slack:1935 When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi *and* Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like, 'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'. So I use the editor that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time. Ed, man! !man ed ED(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual ED(1) NAME ed - text editor SYNOPSIS ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ] DESCRIPTION Ed is the standard text editor. --- Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first alphabetically, but because it's the standard. Everyone else loves ed because it's ED! "Ed is the standard text editor." And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair. Just look: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed -rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970 /usr/ucb/vi -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed. Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!! "Ed is the standard text editor." Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed: golem> ed ? help ? ? ? quit ? exit ? bye ? hello? ? eat flaming death ? ^C ? ^C ? ^D ? --- Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm the novice with verbosity. "Ed is the standard text editor." Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all. ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!! When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!! Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!! TEXT EDITOR. When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their "edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard. Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!! ? On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 1:06 PM Mike Stok wrote: > Before vim? vi ?? > > > -- > The *stok disclaimers* apply. > > mike at stok.ca / mike at stok.co.uk / mike.stok at hey.com > http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ > > On November 3, 2021, Alex Beamish wrote: > > I started using an IBM PC for development in Fall of '85; to begin, I used > a terrible editor called XTC from a company called Wendin. They claimed to > be able to shell out to run make, but it didn't work. I moved to a much > better editor called Brief from (heh) Underware. That editor was super > fast, and it did allow me to shell out to run make -- my first IDE. Like > Indy, I used the Lattice C compiler -- expensive, but it worked great. > After that, I used the Turbo C IDE to write code -- only $99 (or > something), and it had an editor, compiler, make, linker and debugger all > packaged to work together. Amazing value. > > Before that, in the early 80's, I used EDT on a VAX/VMS, while some of the > hard-core guys used TECO, which was essentially a line editor. > > Like Indy, the late development details of the 70's and early 80's are a > little vague for me. I would learn about a new system by using whatever > editor was available, and I would get shown how to build, run and debug > stuff. Picking up a new environment was just what you were used to doing. I > do remember in the mid 90's discovering an awesome linker (an alternative > to the slow Microsoft product) called Blinker -- it was lightning fast. > Loved that product. I also used 4DOS in the late 80's, a command.com > replacement that gave you command line editing (the kind of stuff that's > standard in bash). It made using the DOS command line so much easier. > > Alex > > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM Indy Singh wrote: > > What did people use 31 years ago before Vim? >> >> Text editing is always a fascinating subject to me. >> >> I know in the 70's I used paper tape and punch cards. Then an IBM >> mainframe >> online editor called Electric. >> >> In 1980 I wrote my own editor in Fortran to run on a Teradyne >> minicomputer. >> There was some sort of online edit on PDP minicomputers. >> >> The 80's are a bit hazy now. That's when IBM Pc's came out. After some >> head-scratching I recall I used the Lattice C compiler, which was >> Microsoft's first C compiler. >> >> In the 90's it was a Modula 2 IDE, along with Microsoft's Visual C/C++ >> IDE. >> >> Indy Singh >> www.indigostar.com >> -----Original Message----- >> From: arocker at Vex.Net >> Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 9:44 AM >> To: Toronto PerlMongers >> Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] >> >> >> How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since then? >> >> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- >> >> Date: Wed, November 3, 2021 3:48 am >> To: vim_use at googlegroups.com >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> On 2021-11-03 15:21, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote: >> > https://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/ql30pm/vim_turns_30_today/ >> > >> > Happy 30th Birthday!!! Thanks Bram. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> toronto-pm mailing list >> toronto-pm at pm.org >> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm >> >> _______________________________________________ >> toronto-pm mailing list >> toronto-pm at pm.org >> https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm >> > -- > > > Alex Beamish > > Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 > > Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/Chair, > Sponsorship Committee, TPF / https://www.perlfoundation.org/Baritone, > Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / > www.northernlightschorus.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vvp at cogeco.ca Wed Nov 3 18:20:06 2021 From: vvp at cogeco.ca (Viktor Pavlenko) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:20:06 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> References: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> Message-ID: <24963.13638.321592.655184@cogeco.ca> >>>>> "AR" == arocker writes: AR> How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since then? No idea. I've been living in the emacs world :) -- Viktor From liam at holoweb.net Wed Nov 3 20:18:21 2021 From: liam at holoweb.net (Liam R E Quin) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 23:18:21 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: <24963.13638.321592.655184@cogeco.ca> References: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <24963.13638.321592.655184@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <3d68b9d6d41e8fa0d117ef28b0921a62d928fbc5.camel@holoweb.net> On Wed, 2021-11-03 at 21:20 -0400, Viktor Pavlenko wrote: > > > > > > "AR" == arocker? writes: > > ??? AR> How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's > help since then? > > No idea. I've been living in the emacs world :) I spent a few months using emacs in the 1980s, but found i got more done with vi. One day i was about to leave for dinner with some friends, and realised the bug in some C i'd been working on. So i fired up vi, and needed to indent from here to matching close brace; i'd never done that in vi before, but it was obvious how: >% was the command. Afterwards i thought about what i'd have done in emacs - researching how to do it, maybe writing a LISP procedure to do it and binding it to a key equenc, documenting it, testing it - by which timemy friends would have finished dinner and gone home, and i've have forgotten about the original code! Well, that was me, i know plenty of people who swear by emacs :) That was in 1983 or so, long before vim! Liam -- Liam Quin,?https://www.delightfulcomputing.com/ Available for XML/Document/Information Architecture/XSLT/ XSL/XQuery/Web/Text Processing/A11Y training, work & consulting. Barefoot Web-slave, antique illustrations: ?http://www.fromoldbooks.org From legrady at gmail.com Thu Nov 4 08:19:37 2021 From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 11:19:37 -0400 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: <3d68b9d6d41e8fa0d117ef28b0921a62d928fbc5.camel@holoweb.net> References: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <24963.13638.321592.655184@cogeco.ca> <3d68b9d6d41e8fa0d117ef28b0921a62d928fbc5.camel@holoweb.net> Message-ID: Open emacs, load the file which automatically starts perl mode, find the right place, press tab to autoindent, type your code. In college I would compile, print out a long list of errors, and go one by one in vi to fix them. Then I discovered that emacs allowed you to invoke the compiler in another window, and provided commands to go to the next error. Of course, I don't compile any more, but I never looked back. Tom On 2021-11-03 11:18 p.m., Liam R E Quin wrote: > On Wed, 2021-11-03 at 21:20 -0400, Viktor Pavlenko wrote: >>>>>>> "AR" == arocker? writes: >> ??? AR> How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's >> help since then? >> >> No idea. I've been living in the emacs world :) > I spent a few months using emacs in the 1980s, but found i got more > done with vi. One day i was about to leave for dinner with some > friends, and realised the bug in some C i'd been working on. So i > fired up vi, and needed to indent from here to matching close brace; > i'd never done that in vi before, but it was obvious how: >% was the > command. > > Afterwards i thought about what i'd have done in emacs - researching > how to do it, maybe writing a LISP procedure to do it and binding it > to a key equenc, documenting it, testing it - by which timemy friends > would have finished dinner and gone home, and i've have forgotten about > the original code! > > Well, that was me, i know plenty of people who swear by emacs :) > > That was in 1983 or so, long before vim! > > Liam > -- Tom Legrady my pronouns : he, him Tom at TomLegrady.com legrady at gmail.com 416-948-0497 #49 - 26 Poplar Drive Cambridge, Ontario, N3C 4A3 Traditional territory of the Anishinaabe, Hodinohsho:ni, and Attawandaron ============================================================ From shlomif at shlomifish.org Mon Nov 8 00:45:30 2021 From: shlomif at shlomifish.org (Shlomi Fish) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 10:45:30 +0200 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: <058A565813F94AA0A2DA1F7E59C3B595@indy> References: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <058A565813F94AA0A2DA1F7E59C3B595@indy> Message-ID: <20211108104530.541eb505@shlomifish.org> Hi Indy! On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:47:02 -0400 "Indy Singh" wrote: > What did people use 31 years ago before Vim? > Since I've answered similar questions often: https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/text_editors.xhtml#past_text_editors ? Shlomi > Text editing is always a fascinating subject to me. > > I know in the 70's I used paper tape and punch cards. Then an IBM mainframe > online editor called Electric. > > In 1980 I wrote my own editor in Fortran to run on a Teradyne minicomputer. > There was some sort of online edit on PDP minicomputers. > > The 80's are a bit hazy now. That's when IBM Pc's came out. After some > head-scratching I recall I used the Lattice C compiler, which was > Microsoft's first C compiler. > > In the 90's it was a Modula 2 IDE, along with Microsoft's Visual C/C++ IDE. > > Indy Singh > www.indigostar.com > -----Original Message----- > From: arocker at Vex.Net > Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 9:44 AM > To: Toronto PerlMongers > Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] > > > How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since then? > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > > Date: Wed, November 3, 2021 3:48 am > To: vim_use at googlegroups.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 2021-11-03 15:21, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote: > > https://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/ql30pm/vim_turns_30_today/ > > > > Happy 30th Birthday!!! Thanks Bram. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -- Shlomi Fish https://www.shlomifish.org/ https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Taylor-Swift/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil redirects to XSLT. ? https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/XSLT/ Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - https://shlom.in/reply . From marcperryster at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 06:55:39 2021 From: marcperryster at gmail.com (Marc Perry) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 09:55:39 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Re: Vim turns 30 today!] In-Reply-To: <24963.13638.321592.655184@cogeco.ca> References: <90ed58b5fc270e9f70a285bb4b52bbb6.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <24963.13638.321592.655184@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: #word As in the same, not as in Microsoft-Word.? When I had to use MS-Word in the past I would change the cursor movement keyboard shortcuts to match GNU-Emacs (as much as was possible). On 2021-11-03 9:20 p.m., Viktor Pavlenko wrote: >>>>>> "AR" == arocker writes: > AR> How many lines of great code have been created with Vim's help since then? > > No idea. I've been living in the emacs world :) > From arocker at Vex.Net Sat Nov 13 18:19:29 2021 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 21:19:29 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Some thoughts on programming language design Message-ID: <4d1db18740a50ff7f68dd43d506c2006.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mnYf7L7Amw Which I hope will remain unimplemented. An hour something in there to upset everybody. :-)* From felipe at felipegasper.com Sat Nov 13 18:27:07 2021 From: felipe at felipegasper.com (Felipe Gasper) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 21:27:07 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Some thoughts on programming language design In-Reply-To: <4d1db18740a50ff7f68dd43d506c2006.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> References: <4d1db18740a50ff7f68dd43d506c2006.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> Message-ID: <05A52D20-DE23-4EA7-8EA7-D937D13FC501@felipegasper.com> > On Nov 13, 2021, at 21:19, arocker at vex.net wrote: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mnYf7L7Amw > > Which I hope will remain unimplemented. An hour something in there to > upset everybody. :-)* I found this one recently myself. Wonder what to make of the fact that Perl is absent from his list of ?reference? languages. :) -Felipe Gasper From talexb at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 09:00:34 2021 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 12:00:34 -0500 Subject: [tpm] November meeting plan Message-ID: Hi All, Once again, I'm astonished that another month has gone by, and we have another meeting this Thursday, November 25 (I checked the calendar). My plan for this month's meeting is about Things New Developers Should Know / aka Best Practices. Some of us (raises hand) have been developing software for ages, and have gotten used to doing stuff a certain way -- so much so, that when someone asks, What Do You Do?, it's a bit of a simplification to say you just type stuff into the computer, and it usually works. A recent TPM visitor (Pavan) asked me about how I develop software, and after writing an answer, I thought, this could be a meeting topic. And no doubt other members of this community have thoughts about it as well. Hint: It's part technology, and part teamwork (aka community). See you Thursday -- and bring your good development ideas! Alex -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Chair, Sponsorship Committee, TPF / https://www.perlfoundation.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergio at serso.com Sat Nov 20 12:29:08 2021 From: sergio at serso.com (Sergio Sousa) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:29:08 -0500 Subject: [tpm] November meeting plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good stuff, Alex :) I've been trying to come to TPM meetings for months, this time I will actually be there (online). See you all there. Cheers =Sergio de Sousa sergio at serso.com On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 12:00 PM Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi All, > > Once again, I'm astonished that another month has gone by, and we have > another meeting this Thursday, November 25 (I checked the calendar). > > My plan for this month's meeting is about Things New Developers Should > Know / aka Best Practices. > > Some of us (raises hand) have been developing software for ages, and have > gotten used to doing stuff a certain way -- so much so, that when someone > asks, What Do You Do?, it's a bit of a simplification to say you just type > stuff into the computer, and it usually works. > > A recent TPM visitor (Pavan) asked me about how I develop software, and > after writing an answer, I thought, this could be a meeting topic. And no > doubt other members of this community have thoughts about it as well. Hint: > It's part technology, and part teamwork (aka community). > > See you Thursday -- and bring your good development ideas! > > Alex > > -- > Alex Beamish > > Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 > Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ > Chair, Sponsorship Committee, TPF / https://www.perlfoundation.org/ > Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / > www.northernlightschorus.com > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fulko.hew at gmail.com Mon Nov 22 14:45:27 2021 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 17:45:27 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Strange UDP broadast socket operation Message-ID: I hope someone can explain what I'm seeing... I've written a library to interact with TP-Link / Kasa home automation devices and part of the function is to 'discover' devices on your network. This happens via a UDP broadcast message, that the devices will respond to. So you collect all of the responses and build a list of your devices. a) When I wrote the original function I found I needed this pseudo code: $out = IO::Socket::INET->new(PEERPORT, BROADCAST_ADDR, 'udp'); $local_port = $out->sockport(); $in = IO::Socket::INET->new(PEER_PORT, $local_port, 'udp'); $out->send($msg); $in->recv($rsp, 1024); I.e. For some reason I needed a separate socket to receive on. Huh... why ? b) Then I wanted to run a test and send a directed UDP message instead. So I used the same code, except I used the specific IP address instead of the broadcast address. But I found it would NOT receive the response. I had to recv() on the 'out' socket (as you would have expected) receiving on that 'in' port no longer works. I.e. $out = IO::Socket::INET->new(PEERPORT, "192.168.1.25", 'udp'); $out->send($msg); $out->recv($rsp, 1024); So... - why do I have to do a) (use two sockets) ? - If I have to do a) for broadcast addresses, why doesn't it also work using a specific IP address ? - and more importantly... why can't I just do b) to a broadcast address ? Thanks Fulko -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb at gmail.com Thu Nov 25 16:53:09 2021 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 19:53:09 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Next meeting: Social, December 16 at 7pm Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks to those of you who attended tonight's meeting on Best Practices for Developers, we had some good discussion. December's meeting is usually a social event, which we'll be doing online again this year. I've updated the meetup.com website with the correct date and time. Looking forward to seeing you then! Alex -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Chair, Sponsorship Committee, TPF / https://www.perlfoundation.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: