From talexb at gmail.com Sat Feb 1 09:04:30 2020 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:04:30 -0500 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans Message-ID: Hi All, We had a late cancellation for January's meeting, so instead, Sergio, Dave, Rajah, Sachin and I talked about Perl-related topics, with Fulko listening in remotely. Thanks again to Sachin and Flightnetwork for hosting the meeting and providing pizza and beverages. We came up with a couple of ideas for talks in February: - I'm curious to get an update on what the status is about the TPM website; I know there were some folks working on that during our November hackathon. - Dave S talked about using audio for data transmission, so has said he'll do a talk about that. - New member Sergio S talked about the demand for Perl in Toronto, which ended up being a discussion about the migration of Perl to Modern Perl and to other languages (e.g., .Net), so he's said he'll do a talk as well. This meeting will take place Thursday, February 27. At the pub, Dave, Sergio and I talked about making a proposal to have YAPC::NA (aka The Perl and Raku Conference) in Toronto. While I think it's a terrific idea, I'm a little terrified at the prospect, because the challenge will be to build a team like Richard did for 2005. At this point, I'm aiming to create a proposal for 2022 .. proposals for 2021 will be due in a couple of months, and I don't want to race to get something ready in such a short time-frame. Sergio told me he ran YAPC::EU in 2009, so he has plenty of experience -- and he's persuasive! More updates later this month. Alex -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergio at serso.com Sat Feb 1 12:53:24 2020 From: sergio at serso.com (Sergio Sousa) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 15:53:24 -0500 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Please allow me to clarify and give proper credit here, re YAPC:EU 2009: Jose Castro (cog) was the main organizer and ideator, who lead putting the (huge) team together and secured the platinum sponsor as well as other sponsors; the bid and organization was done by a committee that got together for that specific project. I did participate, as did other members of my team at the time (I was Head of Engineering for Log, another major sponsor, with many perl developers on payroll). I am very enthusiastic by nature and I indeed feel that said 2009 conference also belongs to me but I can't say I "ran" it. ;) Anyway, in fact I have that experience and insight, and I can gather a lot of documentation and information from that process. And, I am positive we can make it here in Toronto, again. I am really confident we can go ahead and create a team for this purpose and that we can win the bid for 2022. It will be a lot of work, though. Cheers! =Sergio de Sousa sergio at serso.com On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 12:04 PM Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi All, > > We had a late cancellation for January's meeting, so instead, Sergio, > Dave, Rajah, Sachin and I talked about Perl-related topics, with Fulko > listening in remotely. Thanks again to Sachin and Flightnetwork for hosting > the meeting and providing pizza and beverages. > > We came up with a couple of ideas for talks in February: > - I'm curious to get an update on what the status is about the TPM > website; I know there were some folks working on that during our November > hackathon. > - Dave S talked about using audio for data transmission, so has said he'll > do a talk about that. > - New member Sergio S talked about the demand for Perl in Toronto, which > ended up being a discussion about the migration of Perl to Modern Perl and > to other languages (e.g., .Net), so he's said he'll do a talk as well. > This meeting will take place Thursday, February 27. > > At the pub, Dave, Sergio and I talked about making a proposal to have > YAPC::NA (aka The Perl and Raku Conference) in Toronto. While I think it's > a terrific idea, I'm a little terrified at the prospect, because the > challenge will be to build a team like Richard did for 2005. At this point, > I'm aiming to create a proposal for 2022 .. proposals for 2021 will be due > in a couple of months, and I don't want to race to get something ready in > such a short time-frame. Sergio told me he ran YAPC::EU in 2009, so he has > plenty of experience -- and he's persuasive! > > More updates later this month. > > Alex > > -- > Alex Beamish > > Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 > Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ > Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / > www.northernlightschorus.com > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.prime at utoronto.ca Sat Feb 1 21:55:01 2020 From: adam.prime at utoronto.ca (Adam Prime) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 00:55:01 -0500 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> I don't think that YAPC, or TPC as it is once again known, is run anywhere near like is was the last time it was in toronto. I don't think you need to put together nearly as much manpower as Richard did back in 05. I haven't been in years, but my understanding was, last time that I was there, that TPF was doing a lot more to run the events then they used to. Whether that remains the case though, i really don't know. I just spend 20 minutes trying to find information on how they choose where to host it from year to year, and failing. I found things that are clearly out dated, with expired SSL certs, but nothing obviously current. Adam On 2/1/20 3:53 PM, Sergio Sousa wrote: > Hi All, > > Please allow me to clarify and give proper credit here, re YAPC:EU 2009: > Jose Castro (cog) was the main organizer and ideator, who?lead putting > the (huge) team together and secured the platinum sponsor as well as > other sponsors; the bid and organization was done by a committee that > got together for that specific project. I did participate, as did other > members of my team at the time (I was Head of Engineering for Log, > another major sponsor, with many perl developers on payroll). I am very > enthusiastic by nature and I indeed feel that said 2009 conference also > belongs to me but I can't say I "ran" it. ;) > > Anyway, in fact I have that experience and insight, and I can gather a > lot of documentation and information from that process. And, I am > positive we can make it here in Toronto, again. I am really confident we > can go ahead and create a team for this purpose and that we can win > the?bid for 2022. It will be a lot of work, though. > > Cheers! > > =Sergio de Sousa > sergio at serso.com > > > On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 12:04 PM Alex Beamish > wrote: > > Hi All, > > We had a late cancellation for January's meeting, so instead, > Sergio, Dave, Rajah, Sachin and I talked about Perl-related topics, > with Fulko listening in remotely. Thanks again to Sachin and > Flightnetwork for hosting the meeting and providing pizza and beverages. > > We came up with a couple of ideas for talks in February: > - I'm curious to get an update on what the status is about the TPM > website; I know there were some folks working on that during our > November hackathon. > - Dave S talked about using audio for data transmission, so has said > he'll do a talk about that. > - New member Sergio S talked about the demand for Perl in Toronto, > which ended up being a discussion about the migration of Perl to > Modern Perl and to other languages (e.g., .Net), so he's said he'll > do a talk as well. > This meeting will take place Thursday, February 27. > > At the pub, Dave, Sergio and I talked about making a proposal to > have YAPC::NA (aka The Perl and Raku Conference) in Toronto. While I > think it's a terrific idea, I'm a little terrified at the prospect, > because the challenge will be to build a team like Richard did for > 2005. At this point, I'm aiming to create a proposal for 2022 .. > proposals for 2021 will be due in a couple of months, and I don't > want to race to get something ready in such a short time-frame. > Sergio told me he ran YAPC::EU in 2009, so he has plenty of > experience -- and he's persuasive! > > More updates later this month. > > Alex > > -- > Alex Beamish > > Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 > Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ > Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 > Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > From olaf.alders at gmail.com Sun Feb 2 08:24:56 2020 From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:24:56 -0500 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans In-Reply-To: <53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> References:

<53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <05800F6A-3614-40A4-9D8A-0E26D3D95D54@gmail.com> > On Feb 2, 2020, at 12:55 AM, Adam Prime wrote: > > I don't think that YAPC, or TPC as it is once again known, is run anywhere near like is was the last time it was in toronto. I don't think you need to put together nearly as much manpower as Richard did back in 05. I haven't been in years, but my understanding was, last time that I was there, that TPF was doing a lot more to run the events then they used to. Whether that remains the case though, i really don't know. > > I just spend 20 minutes trying to find information on how they choose where to host it from year to year, and failing. I found things that are clearly out dated, with expired SSL certs, but nothing obviously current. > > Adam The Perl Foundation has some Slack channels set up where there is pretty active conversation about organizing events, setting dates for future events, lessons learned from past events, diversity etc. If anyone is interested, get in touch with me and I can see about getting you an invitation. Olaf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toddr at cpanel.net Mon Feb 3 09:19:24 2020 From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 11:19:24 -0600 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans In-Reply-To: <05800F6A-3614-40A4-9D8A-0E26D3D95D54@gmail.com> References:

<53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> <05800F6A-3614-40A4-9D8A-0E26D3D95D54@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Feb 2, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Olaf Alders wrote: > > >> On Feb 2, 2020, at 12:55 AM, Adam Prime > wrote: >> >> I don't think that YAPC, or TPC as it is once again known, is run anywhere near like is was the last time it was in toronto. I don't think you need to put together nearly as much manpower as Richard did back in 05. I haven't been in years, but my understanding was, last time that I was there, that TPF was doing a lot more to run the events then they used to. Whether that remains the case though, i really don't know. >> >> I just spend 20 minutes trying to find information on how they choose where to host it from year to year, and failing. I found things that are clearly out dated, with expired SSL certs, but nothing obviously current. >> >> Adam > > The Perl Foundation has some Slack channels set up where there is pretty active conversation about organizing events, setting dates for future events, lessons learned from past events, diversity etc. If anyone is interested, get in touch with me and I can see about getting you an invitation. > > Olaf TPC is entirely planned on slack and has been for 5+ years. So that wheels do not have to be re-invented, we aim for continuity of volunteers who do a small part of the effort rather than one person being a burned out hero every year. We would love to hear from you and discuss the possibilities of Toronto. Here is a link which is valid for 7 days. It will get you into Slack. Please join #tpcna-general. We would love to talk about getting an RFP out for Toronto so we can evaluate the possibility of 2021 or beyond. https://join.slack.com/t/perlfoundation/shared_invite/enQtOTIxNTg2NzE3NzMwLWQzYWY4N2U3NWZkZDNkZGJjZTY3MjdmOWNhMzBkMmM3ZTgzNDIzODkyNzY1ZTIxN2MwZGFiM2M0YWYyZDUzOGY Todd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3905 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sergio at serso.com Mon Feb 3 10:08:15 2020 From: sergio at serso.com (Sergio Sousa) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 13:08:15 -0500 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans In-Reply-To: References:

<53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> <05800F6A-3614-40A4-9D8A-0E26D3D95D54@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Todd. Done. =Sergio de Sousa sergio at serso.com On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 12:43 PM Todd Rinaldo wrote: > > > On Feb 2, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Olaf Alders wrote: > > > On Feb 2, 2020, at 12:55 AM, Adam Prime wrote: > > I don't think that YAPC, or TPC as it is once again known, is run anywhere > near like is was the last time it was in toronto. I don't think you need > to put together nearly as much manpower as Richard did back in 05. I > haven't been in years, but my understanding was, last time that I was > there, that TPF was doing a lot more to run the events then they used to. > Whether that remains the case though, i really don't know. > > I just spend 20 minutes trying to find information on how they choose > where to host it from year to year, and failing. I found things that are > clearly out dated, with expired SSL certs, but nothing obviously current. > > Adam > > > The Perl Foundation has some Slack channels set up where there is pretty > active conversation about organizing events, setting dates for future > events, lessons learned from past events, diversity etc. If anyone is > interested, get in touch with me and I can see about getting you an > invitation. > > Olaf > > > TPC is entirely planned on slack and has been for 5+ years. So that wheels > do not have to be re-invented, we aim for continuity of volunteers who do a > small part of the effort rather than one person being a burned out hero > every year. We would love to hear from you and discuss the possibilities of > Toronto. > > Here is a link which is valid for 7 days. It will get you into Slack. > Please join #tpcna-general. We would love to talk about getting an RFP out > for Toronto so we can evaluate the possibility of 2021 or beyond. > > > https://join.slack.com/t/perlfoundation/shared_invite/enQtOTIxNTg2NzE3NzMwLWQzYWY4N2U3NWZkZDNkZGJjZTY3MjdmOWNhMzBkMmM3ZTgzNDIzODkyNzY1ZTIxN2MwZGFiM2M0YWYyZDUzOGY > > Todd > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arocker at Vex.Net Thu Feb 6 12:07:23 2020 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 15:07:23 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] Message-ID: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> I can'thelp with this, being seriously out of contact for another month. Can anyone offer help/advice/suggestions? ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Perl and putative DLL Hell From: "Dave Collier-Brown" Date: Thu, February 6, 2020 10:05 am To: "Alan Rocker" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have an "interesting" problem with perl on Centos 7 and 8. One of my colleagues, Jourdain Casale wrote: Okay well if 7 is easier we are doing it first and Perl / CPAN / Linux dependencies are really bad migrating to 8 6 is ancient a lot of CPAN won???t build in 8 Modules work great but only on the Linux they were built for A lot of refactoring and risk in 8 vs 7 Jourdain Casale 9:47 AM It???s dependency hell Like the Linux Perl equivalents of DLL Hell in windows We're running Centos 6, and I'd like us to go forward to 8 (8.1, actually) but the teams who tried out updating the perl found it really hard on 8, and hard enough on 7 that they put it off again and again. If it's really as hard as they thought, I figure you've heard the community talking a lot about it. I do see some blathering via a google search, but nothing as severe as was being reported to Jourdain. Can you help? --dave From jkeenan at pobox.com Thu Feb 6 13:49:29 2020 From: jkeenan at pobox.com (James E Keenan) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 16:49:29 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] In-Reply-To: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> References: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> Message-ID: <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> On 2/6/20 3:07 PM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: > > I can'thelp with this, being seriously out of contact for another month. > Can anyone offer help/advice/suggestions? > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: Perl and putative DLL Hell > From: "Dave Collier-Brown" > Date: Thu, February 6, 2020 10:05 am > To: "Alan Rocker" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > We have an "interesting" problem with perl on Centos 7 and 8. One of my > colleagues, Jourdain Casale wrote: > > Okay well if 7 is easier we are doing it first and Perl / CPAN / Linux > dependencies are really bad migrating to 8 > 6 is ancient a lot of CPAN won???t build in 8 > Modules work great but only on the Linux they were built for > A lot of refactoring and risk in 8 vs 7 > > Jourdain Casale 9:47 AM > It???s dependency hell > Like the Linux Perl equivalents of DLL Hell in windows > > We're running Centos 6, and I'd like us to go forward to 8 (8.1, actually) > but the teams who tried out updating the perl found it really hard on 8, > and hard enough on 7 that they put it off again and again. > > If it's really as hard as they thought, I figure you've heard the > community talking a lot about it. I do see some blathering via a google > search, but nothing as severe as was being reported to Jourdain. > > Can you help? > > --dave > _______________________________________________ I find the report very confusing. Centos is the "community fork" of RedHat Enterprise Linux, is it not? And "DLL" presumably refers to '.dll' files in Windows -- correct? So which platform is he talking about? Is the problem that applications that include Perl that were running on Centos version 6 are having problems running on Centos 7 and/or 8.1? Can the reporter provide any specifics as to what Perl problems he is encountering on either OS, i.e., perl versions, CPAN module versions? Now, it so happens that last night at NYC BSD User Group, people got into an explanation of the relationship among Fedora (described as the open source bleeding edge of RedHat Linux development), RHEL (the corporate supported product which is frozen version of Fedora issued only once every several years -- and which is therefore always pretty much behind development versions) and Centos (community fork, de-branded of RHEL). Implication (assuming all the details are true) is that Centos is always going to be behind the times; hence, any upgrade is going to be painful -- regardless of whether you're using Perl or anything else. jimk From toddr at cpanel.net Thu Feb 6 14:16:04 2020 From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 16:16:04 -0600 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] In-Reply-To: <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> References: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> Message-ID: > On Feb 6, 2020, at 3:49 PM, James E Keenan wrote: > > On 2/6/20 3:07 PM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: >> I can'thelp with this, being seriously out of contact for another month. >> Can anyone offer help/advice/suggestions? >> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- >> Subject: Perl and putative DLL Hell >> From: "Dave Collier-Brown" >> Date: Thu, February 6, 2020 10:05 am >> To: "Alan Rocker" >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> We have an "interesting" problem with perl on Centos 7 and 8. One of my >> colleagues, Jourdain Casale wrote: >> Okay well if 7 is easier we are doing it first and Perl / CPAN / Linux >> dependencies are really bad migrating to 8 >> 6 is ancient a lot of CPAN won???t build in 8 >> Modules work great but only on the Linux they were built for >> A lot of refactoring and risk in 8 vs 7 >> Jourdain Casale 9:47 AM >> It???s dependency hell >> Like the Linux Perl equivalents of DLL Hell in windows >> We're running Centos 6, and I'd like us to go forward to 8 (8.1, actually) >> but the teams who tried out updating the perl found it really hard on 8, >> and hard enough on 7 that they put it off again and again. >> If it's really as hard as they thought, I figure you've heard the >> community talking a lot about it. I do see some blathering via a google >> search, but nothing as severe as was being reported to Jourdain. >> Can you help? >> --dave >> _______________________________________________ > > I find the report very confusing. Centos is the "community fork" of RedHat Enterprise Linux, is it not? And "DLL" presumably refers to '.dll' files in Windows -- correct? So which platform is he talking about? Linux. The reference to DLL hell I think was an analogy. > Is the problem that applications that include Perl that were running on Centos version 6 are having problems running on Centos 7 and/or 8.1? Can the reporter provide any specifics as to what Perl problems he is encountering on either OS, i.e., perl versions, CPAN module versions? > We build cpanel-perl on centos 6,7,8 and they work reliably with very little exception. I think there are 2-3 rpms we could not build on centos 8 and that was because the deprecated library was actually dropped from centos 8. You can see all the built rpms here: http://httpupdate.cpanel.net/RPM/11.86/centos/8/x86_64/ the src.rpm files are here http://httpupdate.cpanel.net/RPM/11.86/src/ > Now, it so happens that last night at NYC BSD User Group, people got into an explanation of the relationship among Fedora (described as the open source bleeding edge of RedHat Linux development), RHEL (the corporate supported product which is frozen version of Fedora issued only once every several years -- and which is therefore always pretty much behind development versions) and Centos (community fork, de-branded of RHEL). Implication (assuming all the details are true) is that Centos is always going to be behind the times; hence, any upgrade is going to be painful -- regardless of whether you're using Perl or anything else. CentOS just takes the redhat src.rpm files and rebuilds them without the redhat branding. Yes there's a lag although that has been reduced as of RHEL 8. Good luck Todd Rinaldo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3905 bytes Desc: not available URL: From liam at holoweb.net Thu Feb 6 18:23:30 2020 From: liam at holoweb.net (Liam R E Quin) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 21:23:30 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] In-Reply-To: <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> References: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> Message-ID: <748f3f3ab4957e6012318dde59c3d118f679bd48.camel@holoweb.net> On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 16:49 -0500, James E Keenan wrote: > On 2/6/20 3:07 PM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: > > I can'thelp with this, being seriously out of contact for another > > month. > > Can anyone offer help/advice/suggestions? Is this under CPanel? CPanel has started putting things like PHP and Perl in really weird places. Liam -- Liam Quin, https://www.delightfulcomputing.com/ Available for XML/Document/Information Architecture/XSLT/ XSL/XQuery/Web/Text Processing/A11Y training, work & consulting. Barefoot Web-slave, antique illustrations: http://www.fromoldbooks.org From talexb at gmail.com Thu Feb 6 19:05:07 2020 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 22:05:07 -0500 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans In-Reply-To: <53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> References:

<53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Hi Adam, I've been invited onto the Slack channel where the TPF organizers hang out, so I'll find out more about the whole process. It does sound like the organization provides more support to the local groups, which is a great way to do things. Alex On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 1:38 AM Adam Prime wrote: > I don't think that YAPC, or TPC as it is once again known, is run > anywhere near like is was the last time it was in toronto. I don't > think you need to put together nearly as much manpower as Richard did > back in 05. I haven't been in years, but my understanding was, last time > that I was there, that TPF was doing a lot more to run the events then > they used to. Whether that remains the case though, i really don't know. > > I just spend 20 minutes trying to find information on how they choose > where to host it from year to year, and failing. I found things that > are clearly out dated, with expired SSL certs, but nothing obviously > current. > > Adam > > > On 2/1/20 3:53 PM, Sergio Sousa wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > Please allow me to clarify and give proper credit here, re YAPC:EU 2009: > > Jose Castro (cog) was the main organizer and ideator, who lead putting > > the (huge) team together and secured the platinum sponsor as well as > > other sponsors; the bid and organization was done by a committee that > > got together for that specific project. I did participate, as did other > > members of my team at the time (I was Head of Engineering for Log, > > another major sponsor, with many perl developers on payroll). I am very > > enthusiastic by nature and I indeed feel that said 2009 conference also > > belongs to me but I can't say I "ran" it. ;) > > > > Anyway, in fact I have that experience and insight, and I can gather a > > lot of documentation and information from that process. And, I am > > positive we can make it here in Toronto, again. I am really confident we > > can go ahead and create a team for this purpose and that we can win > > the bid for 2022. It will be a lot of work, though. > > > > Cheers! > > > > =Sergio de Sousa > > sergio at serso.com > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 12:04 PM Alex Beamish > > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > We had a late cancellation for January's meeting, so instead, > > Sergio, Dave, Rajah, Sachin and I talked about Perl-related topics, > > with Fulko listening in remotely. Thanks again to Sachin and > > Flightnetwork for hosting the meeting and providing pizza and > beverages. > > > > We came up with a couple of ideas for talks in February: > > - I'm curious to get an update on what the status is about the TPM > > website; I know there were some folks working on that during our > > November hackathon. > > - Dave S talked about using audio for data transmission, so has said > > he'll do a talk about that. > > - New member Sergio S talked about the demand for Perl in Toronto, > > which ended up being a discussion about the migration of Perl to > > Modern Perl and to other languages (e.g., .Net), so he's said he'll > > do a talk as well. > > This meeting will take place Thursday, February 27. > > > > At the pub, Dave, Sergio and I talked about making a proposal to > > have YAPC::NA (aka The Perl and Raku Conference) in Toronto. While I > > think it's a terrific idea, I'm a little terrified at the prospect, > > because the challenge will be to build a team like Richard did for > > 2005. At this point, I'm aiming to create a proposal for 2022 .. > > proposals for 2021 will be due in a couple of months, and I don't > > want to race to get something ready in such a short time-frame. > > Sergio told me he ran YAPC::EU in 2009, so he has plenty of > > experience -- and he's persuasive! > > > > More updates later this month. > > > > Alex > > > > -- > > Alex Beamish > > > > Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 > > Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ > > Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 > > Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > toronto-pm mailing list > > toronto-pm at pm.org > > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > toronto-pm mailing list > > toronto-pm at pm.org > > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arocker at Vex.Net Thu Feb 6 20:35:53 2020 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 23:35:53 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] In-Reply-To: <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> References: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1bf86bbd51f94343d99d7668dc755a44.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> Thanks, everyone, for the replies, which have been forwarded. Anyone else with anything to add, please go ahead. From adam.prime at utoronto.ca Fri Feb 7 05:08:23 2020 From: adam.prime at utoronto.ca (Adam Prime) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 08:08:23 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] Message-ID: <765BB2A3-A708-4CDE-9442-36FFA3C066CC@utoronto.ca> This is a great example of why you should compile your own Perl if you are doing serious things in production instead of relying on the system Perl. Adam > On Feb 6, 2020, at 11:36 PM, "arocker at vex.net" From toddr at cpanel.net Fri Feb 7 09:31:35 2020 From: toddr at cpanel.net (Todd Rinaldo) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 11:31:35 -0600 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] In-Reply-To: <748f3f3ab4957e6012318dde59c3d118f679bd48.camel@holoweb.net> References: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> <748f3f3ab4957e6012318dde59c3d118f679bd48.camel@holoweb.net> Message-ID: <79A38D19-8EB0-46E1-A4F4-7F31F64370B3@cpanel.net> > On Feb 6, 2020, at 8:23 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote: > > On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 16:49 -0500, James E Keenan wrote: >> On 2/6/20 3:07 PM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: >>> I can'thelp with this, being seriously out of contact for another >>> month. >>> Can anyone offer help/advice/suggestions? > > Is this under CPanel? CPanel has started putting things like PHP and > Perl in really weird places. > > Liam > I'm not sure what your question is. Are you asking Jim or myself? Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3905 bytes Desc: not available URL: From liam at holoweb.net Fri Feb 7 17:40:18 2020 From: liam at holoweb.net (Liam R E Quin) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:40:18 -0500 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] In-Reply-To: <79A38D19-8EB0-46E1-A4F4-7F31F64370B3@cpanel.net> References: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> <6414b41c-3003-bbe7-7e30-3463fdeb5910@pobox.com> <748f3f3ab4957e6012318dde59c3d118f679bd48.camel@holoweb.net> <79A38D19-8EB0-46E1-A4F4-7F31F64370B3@cpanel.net> Message-ID: <3450720dc101bf544ac04c8435e746fc91364690.camel@holoweb.net> On Fri, 2020-02-07 at 11:31 -0600, Todd Rinaldo wrote: > > On Feb 6, 2020, at 8:23 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2020-02-06 at 16:49 -0500, James E Keenan wrote: > > > On 2/6/20 3:07 PM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: > > > > I can'thelp with this, being seriously out of contact for > > > > another > > > > month. > > > > Can anyone offer help/advice/suggestions? > > > > Is this under CPanel? CPanel has started putting things like PHP > > and > > Perl in really weird places. > > > > Liam > > > > I'm not sure what your question is. Are you asking Jim or myself? Whoever was having difficulty with Perl in Centos 8. > > Todd > > From jkeenan at pobox.com Fri Feb 21 13:50:30 2020 From: jkeenan at pobox.com (James E Keenan) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:50:30 -0500 Subject: [tpm] January meeting, February plans In-Reply-To: References:

<53f5c786-f938-e4ef-45dc-442c9a9abd07@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 2/6/20 10:05 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 1:38 AM Adam Prime > wrote: [snip] > > > > >? ? ?We came up with a couple of ideas for talks in February: > >? ? ?- I'm curious to get an update on what the status is about > the TPM > >? ? ?website; I know there were some folks working on that during our > >? ? ?November hackathon. > >? ? ?- Dave S talked about using audio for data transmission, so > has said > >? ? ?he'll do a talk about that. > >? ? ?- New member Sergio S talked about the demand for Perl in > Toronto, > >? ? ?which ended up being a discussion about the migration of Perl to > >? ? ?Modern Perl and to other languages (e.g., .Net), so he's said > he'll > >? ? ?do a talk as well. > >? ? ?This meeting will take place Thursday, February 27. > > Do you expect this Thursday, Feb 27 meeting will take place? If so, please post details. (There's a 1-in-4 chance I might be in Toronto on that date.) Thank you very much. Jim Keenan From talexb at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 09:40:58 2020 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 12:40:58 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Question about the weather affecting tomorrow's meeting Message-ID: Hi All, I've posted the following on the meetup.com page: "How is everyone feeling about meeting at Flightnetwork tomorrow evening, based on the weather forecast? I'm just wondering about switching this month's meeting over to on-line only." Thoughts? Alex -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fulko.hew at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 09:45:54 2020 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 12:45:54 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Question about the weather affecting tomorrow's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:41 PM Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi All, > > I've posted the following on the meetup.com page: "How is everyone > feeling about meeting at Flightnetwork tomorrow evening, based on the > weather forecast? I'm just wondering about switching this month's meeting > over to on-line only." > > Thoughts? > a) I think the forecast by tomorrow night will be fine. b) It won't affect me, I'll be online anyway. c) It will be an interesting experiment, because for the last few meetings I haven't been able to get audio going towards the meeting, or at least to be able to be heard in the room. And you sorta need a way to 'raise your hand' to speak, because interjecting remotely is ... difficult. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkeenan at pobox.com Wed Feb 26 14:33:25 2020 From: jkeenan at pobox.com (James E Keenan) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 17:33:25 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Question about the weather affecting tomorrow's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <064451fe-3950-1d14-8924-06bceaf48c95@pobox.com> On 2/26/20 12:40 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi All, > > I've posted the following on the meetup.com page: > "How is everyone feeling about meeting at Flightnetwork tomorrow > evening, based on the weather forecast? I'm just wondering about > switching this month's meeting over to on-line only." > Well, the weather forecast -- not for the first time in February -- dissuaded me from traveling westward from Rochester to Toronto. But carry on! I'm not sure that I've been able to catch a meeting online since the demise of Google Hangouts. So please provide instructions as early as possible and, if I'm at home, I'll try to follow along. Thank you very much. Jim Keenan From talexb at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 21:45:39 2020 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 00:45:39 -0500 Subject: [tpm] Question about the weather affecting tomorrow's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I'm going to make the call to virtualize today's meeting -- we'll be meeting on-line, and not at the Flightnetwork offices. As before, I'll be using streamyard for the meeting: I will send the URL out to the mailing list, and I'll post it on meetup.com. While I understand this isn't ideal, it's good practice to see what challenges there are to run this kind of meeting virtually. See you all in about 18 hours! Alex On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:40 PM Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi All, > > I've posted the following on the meetup.com page: "How is everyone > feeling about meeting at Flightnetwork tomorrow evening, based on the > weather forecast? I'm just wondering about switching this month's meeting > over to on-line only." > > Thoughts? > > Alex > > -- > Alex Beamish > > Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 > Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ > Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / > www.northernlightschorus.com > > -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb at gmail.com Thu Feb 27 15:54:07 2020 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 18:54:07 -0500 Subject: [tpm] February meeting URL Message-ID: Hi All, You should be able to join the meeting here: https://streamyard.com/szhgg26mbi -- Alex Beamish Software Developer / https://ca.linkedin.com/in/alex-beamish-5111ba3 Speaker Wrangler / Toronto Perlmongers / http://to.pm.org/ Baritone, Operations Manager / Toronto Northern Lights, 2013 Champions / www.northernlightschorus.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.watt at turalt.com Thu Feb 6 14:09:58 2020 From: stuart.watt at turalt.com (Stuart Watt) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 22:09:58 -0000 Subject: [tpm] [Fwd: Perl and putative DLL Hell] In-Reply-To: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> References: <160ab4e702ea0a7ab2e45abbf7576db4.squirrel@webmail.vybenetworks.com> Message-ID: TL;DR: don't use a system perl if you can possibly help it. My suggestion is: it is never a good idea to use a "system" perl for your application. The distribution is highly likely to patch it in odd or unusual ways, and at times you don't want them to. This strategy grew out of having to deploy on CentOS, but other distributions have the same challenge, they just aren't quite as terrible. I had misery with a CentOS-hacked variant of some DBD driver, for example, causing real angst, which was completely at odds with CPAN, and both arrived and left with OS updates. I've tended to use perlbrew to get a specific version, and point my application/scripts to that, even in production. That has the additional advantage it can belong to a non-root user which makes maintenance very much safer. This strategy doesn't play as nicely with, e.g., mod_perl, but anything that's FastCGI-based works fine. And mod_perl is a can of worms anyway. Regular scripts also work fine, especially if you are careful with using, e.g., Probe::Perl to find the *current* binary and had that on if you are running other scripts so that the shebang doesn't get you. Or point the shebang to your own perl to get it disconnected from the system perl, or (better) use /usr/bin/env to find the perl in the shebang. All the best Stuart On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 3:15 PM wrote: > > I can'thelp with this, being seriously out of contact for another month. > Can anyone offer help/advice/suggestions? > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: Perl and putative DLL Hell > From: "Dave Collier-Brown" > Date: Thu, February 6, 2020 10:05 am > To: "Alan Rocker" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > We have an "interesting" problem with perl on Centos 7 and 8. One of my > colleagues, Jourdain Casale wrote: > > Okay well if 7 is easier we are doing it first and Perl / CPAN / Linux > dependencies are really bad migrating to 8 > 6 is ancient a lot of CPAN won???t build in 8 > Modules work great but only on the Linux they were built for > A lot of refactoring and risk in 8 vs 7 > > Jourdain Casale 9:47 AM > It???s dependency hell > Like the Linux Perl equivalents of DLL Hell in windows > > We're running Centos 6, and I'd like us to go forward to 8 (8.1, actually) > but the teams who tried out updating the perl found it really hard on 8, > and hard enough on 7 that they put it off again and again. > > If it's really as hard as they thought, I figure you've heard the > community talking a lot about it. I do see some blathering via a google > search, but nothing as severe as was being reported to Jourdain. > > Can you help? > > --dave > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > https://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -- Stuart Watt Chief Technology Officer t: +1 416-522-8287 | e: stuart.watt at turalt.com | w: turalt.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: