From talexb at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 18:35:17 2014 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 21:35:17 -0400 Subject: [tpm] OT: Buying via ebay.ca from a seller in the U.S. Message-ID: Hi guys, I'm in need of a Canon IP100, which is a small, portable printer. I'm trying to do so as economically as possible. I see that there are a few on offer in the U.S., where they retail for about $160; on ebay.ca, I see them offered for $60-100, with another $10 or so for shipping (presumably this is in USD). Here in Toronto, the best price I can find is $273, at Direct Canada. If I buy something from the U.S., am I liable for duty? I'm not in the habit of buying used stuff through the Internet, so I don't know what to expect. Thanks! Alex PS Um, yeah, if you have one of these units that you'd like to sell, or can point me to a place where they're sold at good prices, by all means bring that up. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olaf.alders at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 19:20:10 2014 From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 22:20:10 -0400 Subject: [tpm] OT: Buying via ebay.ca from a seller in the U.S. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5FA9C848-8942-451F-8182-BB3BB0D91EC2@gmail.com> Hi Alex, On Aug 3, 2014, at 9:35 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > If I buy something from the U.S., am I liable for duty? I'm not in the habit of buying used stuff through the Internet, so I don't know what to expect. IIRC, I usually get some combination of tax + duty on stuff I get from out of country. Having said that, if the shipment is marked as a gift or warranty repair, then those charges shouldn?t apply. Olaf From liam at holoweb.net Mon Aug 4 02:32:07 2014 From: liam at holoweb.net (Liam R E Quin) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 05:32:07 -0400 Subject: [tpm] OT: Buying via ebay.ca from a seller in the U.S. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140804053207.70dedf08@holoweb.net> On Sun, 3 Aug 2014 21:35:17 -0400 Alex Beamish wrote: > If I buy something from the U.S., am I liable for duty? Yes. Make sure the seller does not use the "global shiping program". Make sure the seller does nto use UPS to ship, as UPS will typically charge an additional $40 to clear customs. USPS (the US postal service) is OK but make sure you get a tracking number. Remind the seller that on the customs form they must put the price you paid *not including shipping*. Duty will be a percentage of that figure, unless it's under $60 and marked as a gift, but if the gov't gets suspicious that it's not really a gift they can and likely will) simply confiscate it and make you prove it was a gift (or just confiscate it and not tell you for a year or longer, you have to write to them), so it's best not to ask someone else to mark it as a gift. Customs charges sometimes appear weeks after the item has arrived. An alternative: http://www.kijiji.ca/v-printers-scanners-fax/city-of-toronto/canon-pixma-ip100-mobile-inkjet-printer-with-battery/1008837709?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true http://www.kijiji.ca/v-printers-scanners-fax/city-of-toronto/canon-pixma-ip100-mobile-photo-printer/549764846?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true http://www.kijiji.ca/v-printers-scanners-fax/city-of-toronto/canon-ip100-printer/1001665283?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true I've used Kijiji a lot in the past without problems, but buyer beware etc. -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ From talexb at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 13:36:16 2014 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 16:36:16 -0400 Subject: [tpm] OT: Buying via ebay.ca from a seller in the U.S. In-Reply-To: <770b20b05c153ffa37f07f831c0c8438.squirrel@mail.vex.net> References: <770b20b05c153ffa37f07f831c0c8438.squirrel@mail.vex.net> Message-ID: Thanks for all of your feed-back .. for whatever reason, Best Buy suddenly had the printer that I wanted on sale, at a $60 discount, making it much more attractive to buy new locally. I much prefer that than to risk buying something through kijiji (ugh) or making a shopping trip to the U.S.A. I've ordered the printer and it's due to arrive via Canada Post this week. Cheers, Alex On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 4:31 PM, wrote: > > > > If I buy something from the U.S., am I liable for duty? I'm not in the > > habit of buying used stuff through the Internet, so I don't know what to > > expect. > > > As Olaf and Liam have pointed out, yes you are. > > It's often worth checking categories of duties, because some items might > fall into more than one category. In that case, finding the cheapest > designation that can be justified with reasonable creativity, and making > sure that the shipper quotes it on the description, can be worth while. > (Otherwise you're at the discretion of the Customs creature, and guess how > that'll swing.) > > There's also a matter of getting things serviced or warrantied. Some firms > consider cross-border buying "grey-market" or worse > > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 19:28:31 2014 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:28:31 -0400 Subject: [tpm] OT: Strategies for recovering a ZFS drive Message-ID: Hi folks, My long-serving OpenSolaris file server died sometime in the last 24 hours, and while I had the important stuff backed up, I would dearly love to have one last look at the files to make sure, as you do. Because this was a bit of a technology experiment, I used ZFS, which worked really well for me. The system was set up with one drive holding the OS, and the other two acting as mirrored drives. Because the system no longer even does a POST, I suspect the processor is fried. I opened up the case and found a great deal of dust. Cleaning that up didn't help. No surprised. I've been trying to figure out a simple way out of this predicament. My original plan was to load ZFS on Linux [1] onto my existing workstation, install the data drive, and try to mount it. Then I thought about buying a PC, installing OpenSolaris on it and installing the data drive. It's finally occurred to me that the best solution is probably just to buy a new system, and install both the root drive and the data drives. It should just boot up as if (almost) nothing happened. Has anyone gone through this process recently? Also, I've bought many of my systems from Sonnam, but it's been a while -- is Tiger Direct a better source for inexpensive hardware? Any other places in the GTA on the Yea/Nay list? I'd like to spend $300-400 for a fairly simple box. Thanks! 1. http://zfsonlinux.org/faq.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 07:22:51 2014 From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:22:51 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Moo + Type::Tiny Message-ID: Hello TPM, Just an interesting note to those who saw my Type::Tiny talk a few months back. A new version of Moo was just released and I noted that to do a coercion with Type::Tiny on an attribute you had to do the following: has lines => ( is => 'rw', isa => MyType coerce => MyType->coercion, ); This was a bit restrictive because you HAD to create a named type to get the coercion because of the need for the second call. However, Moo's newest release now supports coerce => 1 where the isa is a blessed object with a coerce or coercion method which means you can do this: has lines => ( is => 'rw', isa => MyType, coerce => 1, ); This is great, because this means you can now define a type using the base types (remember, never add a coercion directly to a base type), on the fly with the plus_coercions and have it work: use Types::Standard qw{ ArrayRef Split }; has lines => ( is => 'rw', isa => ArrayRef->plus_coercions( Split[ qr{\n} ] ), coerce => 1, ); This will require an arrayref, but will coerce a string into an arrayref. Now you need not do simple one-time only used types in a library. D -- dave.s.doyle at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arocker at Vex.Net Wed Aug 20 06:42:06 2014 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:42:06 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Who's the moderator of the TPM list? Message-ID: From olaf.alders at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 06:44:52 2014 From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:44:52 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Who's the moderator of the TPM list? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88A9F46E-6DF0-4283-9313-28F2639BDA65@gmail.com> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm toronto-pm list run by jztam at yahoo.com I also have an admin password. I believe Mike Stok would also have one, since I think he set me up originally. Not sure who else has access. On Aug 20, 2014, at 9:42 AM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From jztam at yahoo.com Wed Aug 20 07:43:21 2014 From: jztam at yahoo.com (J Z Tam) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:43:21 -0700 Subject: [tpm] Who's the moderator of the TPM list? In-Reply-To: <88A9F46E-6DF0-4283-9313-28F2639BDA65@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1408545801.10418.YahooMailBasic@web140304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Alan, What do you need filtered in/out, from the "holding pen" for the list? I recently deleted a bunch of spam a day or two ago. Did I miss something? /jordan -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 8/20/14, Olaf Alders wrote: Subject: Re: [tpm] Who's the moderator of the TPM list? To: arocker at Vex.Net Cc: "Toronto PerlMongers" Received: Wednesday, August 20, 2014, 9:44 AM http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm toronto-pm list run by jztam at yahoo.com I also have an admin password.? I believe Mike Stok would also have one, since I think he set me up originally.? Not sure who else has access. On Aug 20, 2014, at 9:42 AM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote: > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From Scott.Williams at globalknowledge.com Tue Aug 19 14:59:49 2014 From: Scott.Williams at globalknowledge.com (Scott Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:59:49 +0000 Subject: [tpm] Thank you! Message-ID: <68227DB050ACE443BE7087982ED5207301A58AAE@NC10S121.corp.globalknowledge.com> Perl Mongers: Alan Rocker came by my office this morning and presented me this quite delightful pen set. I was incredibly touched by the gesture - thank you! The pens are engraved Perl Mongers 1999-2014, and it has been my great pleasure to have supported TPM in some small way for that time. I recall in the early days it went beyond just classrooms; I believe the original listserv was on a Willcam server, and I think we even hosted the TPM web site for a time. Of all the 'C's in business (Company, Customer, Competition, etc.) I think the most important to me is Community. So much has changed in those 15 years (Willcam became CDI, then Nexient, now GK), but I'd suggest that the value of a technical community like TPM has remained constant. Thank you for the opportunity to have been associated with you. Scott. [20140819_174201.jpg] Scott Williams President, Global Knowledge Canada (416) 964-8688 x2336 (888) 945-5226 x2336 Global Knowledge http://www.globalknowledge.ca Twitter: @ScottGKC LinkedIn: ca.linkedin.com/in/scottgkc/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18961 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com Thu Aug 21 06:23:39 2014 From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:23:39 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Next Meeting + September Message-ID: Details are up for our meeting on Wednesday next week: http://www.meetup.com/Toronto-Perl-Mongers/events/202290162/ September is coming so it's time for lightning talks. I'm going to whine, beg, plead, cajole and blackmail for talks. They only have to be 5 minutes. All are welcome. You can even do more than one if it tickles your fancy. My hope is that I can get most people to send me slides in advance (before 5pm on the day ideally) so we can keep the google hangout simple by presenting of my machine. If you're prepared to hookup to google hangouts yourself, feel free to use your own machine. Thanks, D -- dave.s.doyle at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fulko.hew at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 11:32:48 2014 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:32:48 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? Message-ID: I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. On the production machine... my app died with the error: 'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' just as you would expect. But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my dev sys, and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. (That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) So... Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not with a normal run)? And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattp at cpan.org Fri Aug 22 11:35:47 2014 From: mattp at cpan.org (Matthew Phillips) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:35:47 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hard to say anything without code that demonstrates the behavior. Cheers, Matt On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Fulko Hew wrote: > > I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, > and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? > > Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) > Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) > > It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't > detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed > when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. > > a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. > b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. > > On the production machine... my app died with the error: > 'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' > just as you would expect. > > But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! > > Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my dev > sys, > and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. > But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. > (That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) > > So... > Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not with a > normal run)? > And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbl at jbldata.com Fri Aug 22 11:46:02 2014 From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:46:02 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ad516f9-6bc2-4755-9f0d-c4f124c1c365@email.android.com> Compare the actual build number, since the base version number may be the same, but builds are most likely different, especially across distros. It may be that your dev environment has something like a 'no warnings q{uninitialized}' coded into some library on the dev side that doesn't exist in production. Just a guess. On August 22, 2014 2:32:48 PM EDT, Fulko Hew wrote: >I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, >and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? > >Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) >Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) > >It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't >detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed >when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. > >a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. >b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. > >On the production machine... my app died with the error: >'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' >just as you would expect. > >But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! > >Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my >dev >sys, >and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. >But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. >(That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) > >So... >Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not with >a >normal run)? >And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >toronto-pm mailing list >toronto-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olaf.alders at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 11:52:09 2014 From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:52:09 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: <4ad516f9-6bc2-4755-9f0d-c4f124c1c365@email.android.com> References: <4ad516f9-6bc2-4755-9f0d-c4f124c1c365@email.android.com> Message-ID: <31E138A4-618E-4EB2-9BD0-145E47FF3936@gmail.com> On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:46 PM, J. Bobby Lopez wrote: > Compare the actual build number, since the base version number may be the same, but builds are most likely different, especially across distros. It may be that your dev environment has something like a 'no warnings q{uninitialized}' coded into some library on the dev side that doesn't exist in production. Just a guess. > Is it possible you have strictures enabled somewhere in production but not locally? https://metacpan.org/pod/strictures Olaf From arocker at Vex.Net Fri Aug 22 11:52:20 2014 From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:52:20 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6c737f1f9fcc2ea9084cc203e064e97a.squirrel@mail.vex.net> > I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, > and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? > Golfing the code might yield some useful information, (if the bug disappears at some point), or a quotable problem case for another forum. (Assuming that production don't give you grief for testing on a production system.) From jbl at jbldata.com Fri Aug 22 11:52:39 2014 From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:52:39 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: <4ad516f9-6bc2-4755-9f0d-c4f124c1c365@email.android.com> References: <4ad516f9-6bc2-4755-9f0d-c4f124c1c365@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4f678f9a-f221-4d80-8a48-0e8c2b58aff4@email.android.com> Also, if you avoid the use of the system perl, and maybe use perlbrew to install 5.8.8 on both prod and dev, you may be able to avoid distro-specific inconsistencies (or rule out the system perl as the culprit). On August 22, 2014 2:46:02 PM EDT, "J. Bobby Lopez" wrote: >Compare the actual build number, since the base version number may be >the same, but builds are most likely different, especially across >distros. It may be that your dev environment has something like a 'no >warnings q{uninitialized}' coded into some library on the dev side that >doesn't exist in production. Just a guess. > >On August 22, 2014 2:32:48 PM EDT, Fulko Hew >wrote: >>I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, >>and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? >> >>Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) >>Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) >> >>It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't >>detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed >>when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. >> >>a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. >>b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. >> >>On the production machine... my app died with the error: >>'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' >>just as you would expect. >> >>But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! >> >>Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my >>dev >>sys, >>and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. >>But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. >>(That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) >> >>So... >>Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not >with >>a >>normal run)? >>And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>toronto-pm mailing list >>toronto-pm at pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart at morungos.com Fri Aug 22 13:41:20 2014 From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:41:20 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: <4f678f9a-f221-4d80-8a48-0e8c2b58aff4@email.android.com> References: <4ad516f9-6bc2-4755-9f0d-c4f124c1c365@email.android.com> <4f678f9a-f221-4d80-8a48-0e8c2b58aff4@email.android.com> Message-ID: I?d check into this too: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2014/01/fatal-warnings-are-a-ticking-time-bomb.html Basically, if some module somewhere in a dependency uses Moo, you can get this effect. A change somewhere quite remote can have nasty consequences. And i quote: > In other words, any CPAN module which uses Moo is, by default, vulnerable to a change in any of its dependencies which may legitimately produce new warnings. By "vulnerable" I mean "your program may start crashing in library code you didn't write and do not maintain and, by the way, may be in a dependency several levels deep that you didn't even know uses Moo." The last bit is actually quite scary. All the best Stuart On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:52 PM, J. Bobby Lopez wrote: > Also, if you avoid the use of the system perl, and maybe use perlbrew to install 5.8.8 on both prod and dev, you may be able to avoid distro-specific inconsistencies (or rule out the system perl as the culprit). > > On August 22, 2014 2:46:02 PM EDT, "J. Bobby Lopez" wrote: > Compare the actual build number, since the base version number may be the same, but builds are most likely different, especially across distros. It may be that your dev environment has something like a 'no warnings q{uninitialized}' coded into some library on the dev side that doesn't exist in production. Just a guess. > > On August 22, 2014 2:32:48 PM EDT, Fulko Hew wrote: > > I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, > and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? > > Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) > Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) > > It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't > detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed > when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. > > a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. > b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. > > On the production machine... my app died with the error: > 'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' > just as you would expect. > > But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! > > Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my dev sys, > and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. > But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. > (That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) > > So... > Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not with a normal run)? > And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? > > > > > > > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -- Stuart Watt stuart at morungos.com / twitter.com/morungos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 496 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From olaf.alders at gmail.com Fri Aug 22 13:44:01 2014 From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:44:01 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: References: <4ad516f9-6bc2-4755-9f0d-c4f124c1c365@email.android.com> <4f678f9a-f221-4d80-8a48-0e8c2b58aff4@email.android.com> Message-ID: <19427110-4115-4B62-AC97-8B3BA3E06A31@gmail.com> On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:41 PM, Stuart Watt wrote: > I?d check into this too: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2014/01/fatal-warnings-are-a-ticking-time-bomb.html > > Basically, if some module somewhere in a dependency uses Moo, you can get this effect. A change somewhere quite remote can have nasty consequences. And i quote: > >> In other words, any CPAN module which uses Moo is, by default, vulnerable to a change in any of its dependencies which may legitimately produce new warnings. By "vulnerable" I mean "your program may start crashing in library code you didn't write and do not maintain and, by the way, may be in a dependency several levels deep that you didn't even know uses Moo." > > The last bit is actually quite scary. I?ve been bitten by this. It isn?t fun to debug! Olaf From bamccaig at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 22:29:04 2014 From: bamccaig at gmail.com (Brandon McCaig) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 01:29:04 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fulko: On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Fulko Hew wrote: > I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, > and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? > > Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) > Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) > > It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't > detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed > when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. > > a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. > b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. > > On the production machine... my app died with the error: > 'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' > just as you would expect. > > But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! > > Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my dev > sys, > and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. > But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. > (That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) > > So... > Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not with a > normal run)? > And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? Even if you require 5.8.8 for legacy code or something, at least perlbrew might help to get a more similar perl on each platform. Technically, Linux distributions can and do patch software themselves in ways that upstream might not deem acceptable so v5.8.8 on Debian may have Debian-specific patches that Fedora doesn't have and visa-versa. Typically there is a

number added, I think, for each revision of a package (at least in Fedora). So the version isn't just 5.8.8, but perhaps 5.8.8-3 (which is still distro-specific) or whatever. If you actually open the system source packages up you'll likely see notes about patches that are added. IIRC, Fedora's packaging policy actually requires (with exceptions) that patches be applied to upstream source during the package building process to make it easy to understand which patches have been applied for just such an occasion. Which means if you actually fetch the source RPM you should find any patches inside of it. Of course, it's also possible that environment settings are interfering... It might be worth looking into if you can't overhaul your environments with e.g., perlbrew. AFAIK, the "Use of unintialized value in concatenation" isn't actually fatal so I'm a little bit confused about how it is killing your app, but I'm sure there are pragmas, options, or modules that could turn them fatal (alas I do not write Perl professionally and it has been a few months since I've been active in the community so my Perl-fu may be rusty in addition to green)... > bambams at test-chamber-1:~$ perl -Mstrict -Mwarnings -E ' > > my $bar; > > > > print "foo $bar"; > > > > say " baz";' > Use of uninitialized value $bar in concatenation (.) or string at -e line 4. > foo baz > bambams at test-chamber-1:~$ Regards, -- Brandon McCaig Castopulence Software Blog perl -E '$_=q{V zrna gur orfg jvgu jung V fnl. }. q{Vg qbrfa'\''g nyjnlf fbhaq gung jnl.}; tr/A-Ma-mN-Zn-z/N-Zn-zA-Ma-m/;say' From stuart at morungos.com Tue Aug 26 10:03:53 2014 From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:03:53 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Jobs opening in OICR Message-ID: <293FEEA6-66C9-438C-8CE4-8938F83156FE@morungos.com> Hi all Just thought I?d share this: there?s a fair few positions opening in my current place, and they?re looking for good people. Perl isn?t always required, but it is used fairly widely for some projects (see, for example: https://www.recruitingsite.com/csbsites/oicr/JobDescription.asp?JobNumber=736919). Please feel free to forward. List of postings: https://www.recruitingsite.com/csbsites/oicr/careers.asp Sadly, I?m moving on from there in a few weeks time, because the research work I?m doing belongs better in the hospital next door, but there are many cool people working here, and on the software side, it?s a good place to work. They are gearing up for some very interesting large-scale data projects. All the best Stuart -- Stuart Watt stuart at morungos.com / twitter.com/morungos -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 496 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From bamccaig at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 11:33:53 2014 From: bamccaig at gmail.com (Brandon McCaig) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:33:53 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Jobs opening in OICR In-Reply-To: <293FEEA6-66C9-438C-8CE4-8938F83156FE@morungos.com> References: <293FEEA6-66C9-438C-8CE4-8938F83156FE@morungos.com> Message-ID: Stuart: On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Stuart Watt wrote: > Hi all Hello, > Just thought I?d share this: there?s a fair few positions opening in my > current place, and they?re looking for good people. Perl isn?t always > required, but it is used fairly widely for some projects (see, for example: > https://www.recruitingsite.com/csbsites/oicr/JobDescription.asp?JobNumber=736919). > > Please feel free to forward. List of postings: > https://www.recruitingsite.com/csbsites/oicr/careers.asp > > Sadly, I?m moving on from there in a few weeks time, because the research > work I?m doing belongs better in the hospital next door, but there are many > cool people working here, and on the software side, it?s a good place to > work. They are gearing up for some very interesting large-scale data > projects. Out of curiosity, does OICR have any telecommuting personnel or any interest in acquiring them or does the nature of the work require a real world presence? Thanks. Regards, -- Brandon McCaig Castopulence Software Blog perl -E '$_=q{V zrna gur orfg jvgu jung V fnl. }. q{Vg qbrfa'\''g nyjnlf fbhaq gung jnl.}; tr/A-Ma-mN-Zn-z/N-Zn-zA-Ma-m/;say' From indy at indigostar.com Tue Aug 26 13:12:42 2014 From: indy at indigostar.com (Indy Singh) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:12:42 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4025B0B7B39748338B51D2FA2B28AC03@indy> Maybe it is a timing issue. It may be running more slowly on the production system and when you run it with the debugger. You get the error when you run it with the debugger, but what happens if you start it with the debugger but place no breakpoints in the code? Perhaps you can reproduce the error message with some sleep statements placed at the same spots as where you stopped with the debugger. Indy Singh IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com From: Fulko Hew Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 2:32 PM To: toronto-pm at pm.org Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. On the production machine... my app died with the error: 'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' just as you would expect. But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my dev sys, and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. (That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) So... Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not with a normal run)? And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mfowle at navicominc.com Tue Aug 26 13:27:00 2014 From: mfowle at navicominc.com (Mark Fowle) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:27:00 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? References: <4025B0B7B39748338B51D2FA2B28AC03@indy> Message-ID: <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA542CF56CB@sbsa.NavicomInc.local> I've encountered something like this before. The obvious but not likely: different module versions And the often overlooked: Code running inside an if (server is dev){...} If you have chunks of code running in dev only check them. Some development houses get around this by having a dev server. a staging server that runs the full code but off a different datastore and a live server. The staging server tests the code as it would run in the live environment. -----Original Message----- From: toronto-pm on behalf of Indy Singh Sent: Tue 8/26/2014 4:12 PM To: Fulko Hew; toronto-pm at pm.org Subject: Re: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? Maybe it is a timing issue. It may be running more slowly on the production system and when you run it with the debugger. You get the error when you run it with the debugger, but what happens if you start it with the debugger but place no breakpoints in the code? Perhaps you can reproduce the error message with some sleep statements placed at the same spots as where you stopped with the debugger. Indy Singh IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com From: Fulko Hew Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 2:32 PM To: toronto-pm at pm.org Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? I just got bitten by different behavior on different platforms, and I can't justify it. Perhaps someone out there can? Platform #1: Perl 5.8.8 on Fedora (development system) Platform #2: Perl 5.8.8 on Debian (production system) It turns out my application _did_ have a bug in it, but it wasn't detected during my testing when run on the dev sys, but failed when the same dataset was encountered on the production system. a) I have 'use strict' and 'use warnings' in my app. b) I had an uninitialized variable used in a print statement. On the production machine... my app died with the error: 'Use of uninitialized value in concatenation' just as you would expect. But on my dev sys, the app doesn't die, or even complain! Once I found out what was happening, I ran it under the debugger on my dev sys, and when I stepped through the print statement... It bitches and dies. But without the debugger, all is (apparently) happy. (That's why I didn't detect and fix the bug during testing.) So... Why would my dev sys only flag and die under the debugger (and not with a normal run)? And why does my prod system, work correctly (ie. flag and die) ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ toronto-pm mailing list toronto-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fulko.hew at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 15:31:33 2014 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 18:31:33 -0400 Subject: [tpm] why wouldn't violating "use warnings" always be fatal? In-Reply-To: <4025B0B7B39748338B51D2FA2B28AC03@indy> References: <4025B0B7B39748338B51D2FA2B28AC03@indy> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Indy Singh wrote: > Maybe it is a timing issue. > No, its not timing, there really were uninitialized values (that I have since fixed). My trouble was that these uninitialized items were causing a die (or something), but only on that production system. On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Mark Fowle wrote: > I've encountered something like this before. > The obvious but not likely: different module versions > I suspect that the problem IS due to different module versions. The trouble is to find out which, OR to be able to turn (whatever this mode is) on in a similar manner on my dev system so that I can detect these problems earlier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: