From arocker at Vex.Net  Tue Jan  1 07:27:24 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 10:27:24 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Do we have a topic for this months's meeting?
Message-ID: <67a6e98a2e7360f8e679e25ac689f011.squirrel@mail.vex.net>


?


From william.muriithi at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 19:19:11 2013
From: william.muriithi at gmail.com (William Muriithi)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 22:19:11 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Do we have a topic for this months's meeting?
In-Reply-To: <67a6e98a2e7360f8e679e25ac689f011.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
References: <67a6e98a2e7360f8e679e25ac689f011.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
Message-ID: <CAE9rU+57B9E_j4d_a86pmKRO9Y78BAf_WnfPkg-KJnsD0EsnZg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I suspect there are people who are involved with luster file system
development in the group.

For selfish reason, I wonder if a luster file system talk would be in
order?  I do admit it has little to do with perl though.

William
On Jan 1, 2013 10:27 AM, <arocker at vex.net> wrote:

>
> ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
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From arocker at Vex.Net  Wed Jan  2 05:18:27 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 08:18:27 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Do we have a topic for this months's meeting?
In-Reply-To: <CAE9rU+57B9E_j4d_a86pmKRO9Y78BAf_WnfPkg-KJnsD0EsnZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67a6e98a2e7360f8e679e25ac689f011.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
	<CAE9rU+57B9E_j4d_a86pmKRO9Y78BAf_WnfPkg-KJnsD0EsnZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fb7c579a48fa64d8a0d148e3befd3299.squirrel@mail.vex.net>


> For selfish reason, I wonder if a luster file system talk would be in
> order?  I do admit it has little to do with perl though.
>
Is there someone who could talk about it? Anything technical's reasonable;
it doesn't have to be purely Perl.


From mike at stok.ca  Fri Jan  4 19:05:11 2013
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:05:11 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Do we have a topic for this months's meeting?
In-Reply-To: <fb7c579a48fa64d8a0d148e3befd3299.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
References: <67a6e98a2e7360f8e679e25ac689f011.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
	<CAE9rU+57B9E_j4d_a86pmKRO9Y78BAf_WnfPkg-KJnsD0EsnZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<fb7c579a48fa64d8a0d148e3befd3299.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
Message-ID: <9862ED1B-18FE-4B9F-95F8-3FFB3CADD906@stok.ca>

I don't know that much about Lustre to be able to talk about it without considerable preparation.  I am pretty snowed under for the next two or three months, so I can't offer to fill January.

Mike

On 2013-01-02, at 8:18 AM, arocker at Vex.Net wrote:

> 
>> For selfish reason, I wonder if a luster file system talk would be in
>> order?  I do admit it has little to do with perl though.
>> 
> Is there someone who could talk about it? Anything technical's reasonable;
> it doesn't have to be purely Perl.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From arocker at Vex.Net  Tue Jan  8 13:59:36 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:59:36 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Do we have a topic for this months's meeting?
In-Reply-To: <9862ED1B-18FE-4B9F-95F8-3FFB3CADD906@stok.ca>
References: <67a6e98a2e7360f8e679e25ac689f011.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
	<CAE9rU+57B9E_j4d_a86pmKRO9Y78BAf_WnfPkg-KJnsD0EsnZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<fb7c579a48fa64d8a0d148e3befd3299.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
	<9862ED1B-18FE-4B9F-95F8-3FFB3CADD906@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <a85bd75b3fef9b96d45b0a7a4056a5f0.squirrel@mail.vex.net>


If we can't do Lustre filesystems, does anyone know anything about new
buzzwords like DevOps, or other trends?


From ijaazu at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 13:42:40 2013
From: ijaazu at gmail.com (Ijaaz A. Ullah)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:42:40 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Fwd: Virgin Gaming is looking for a Sr. Linux System
	Administrator
In-Reply-To: <CAFmOjKyEY5dFCcYO2-72wDdG+TSs1kuxh8y7BFWXiaZHs9VR5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmOjKyEY5dFCcYO2-72wDdG+TSs1kuxh8y7BFWXiaZHs9VR5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmOjKytNvUPKA10x8SvFLrxAzpZtKxL-FMhsiHiz+Kx69SLvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Job Title: Senior Linux System Administrator

Job Description: As a Sr. System Administrator you will be responsible for
day to day management of the Virgin Gaming infrastructure (production,
staging, QA, development and corporate IT). This includes Linux Servers
(CentOS), Load Balancers, SAN/NAS, switches, routers and firewall gear. The
software stack includes Linux, Apache, Tomcat, PostgreSQL and Xen.

Duties and Responsibilities:
? Management of SANs, LUN and I/O performance tuning
? Knowledge of networking architectures and protocols and troubleshooting
tools, ethereal, Wireshark, etc
? Network and system performance tuning
? Working with Amazon Web Services
? Running cables, racking/building servers, and troubleshooting hardware
issues.
? Managing network devices including switches, routers, firewalls, VPNs,
load balancers, etc
? Participate in the on-call rotation for after -hours incident resolution

Job Requirements
? 5+ years of progressive experience in system administration in a
distributed Unix/Linux environment
? Must have enterprise hands-on experience building, configuring and
maintaining a high-availability enterprise Linux environment utilizing
Apache, Tomcat, Postgres and Xen
? Has implemented CFengine, Puppet or Chef in a production environment
? Familiar with VMware/Xen virtulization
? Familiar with SVN, Nagios, Cacti, shell scripting, LDAP. We are open
source friendly.
? Experience with clustering and performance tuning databases, preferably
with PostgreSQL
? RHCE would be an asset
? A College diploma or University degree in computer science or engineering
or relevant job experience
? Excellent written and oral communication skills.

Location: King/Bathurst

If anyone's interested, send your resume/cover letter to:
sysadmin at virgingaming.com
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From arocker at Vex.Net  Mon Jan 14 08:40:46 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:40:46 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Sunday afternoon lecture
Message-ID: <6fd3d5373b77b88add92819bb582c357.squirrel@mail.vex.net>


This talk, co-sponsored by the Fields Institute, might be of interest.

?P versus NP? and the Limits of Computation

Stephen A. Cook, Ph.D., Department of Computer Sciences and Department of
Mathematics, U of T

Sunday, January 20 at 3 pm
Macleod Auditorium, Medical Sciences Building, University of Toronto

For more details, see http://www.royalcanadianinstitute.org/




From arocker at Vex.Net  Wed Jan 16 07:11:21 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:11:21 -0500
Subject: [tpm] We still don't have a topic for this month
Message-ID: <df0aad08ddc963baef4e9d5e8d70ddd5.squirrel@mail.vex.net>


Any volunteers, or do I have to threaten to do something?


From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 07:51:00 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:51:00 -0500
Subject: [tpm] We still don't have a topic for this month
In-Reply-To: <df0aad08ddc963baef4e9d5e8d70ddd5.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
References: <df0aad08ddc963baef4e9d5e8d70ddd5.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
Message-ID: <388BAE8A-F130-4DC0-967C-43B757014A54@gmail.com>


On 2013-01-16, at 10:11 AM, arocker at vex.net wrote:

> 
> Any volunteers, or do I have to threaten to do something?

Well, it would actually be interesting if someone did a quick intro to Scala and then we all tried hacking on Moe.  If there's nobody to do a Scala tutorial, we could just try to muddle through Moe together.

https://github.com/stevan/moe

https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-is-not-dead-it-is-a-dead-end
https://speakerdeck.com/genehack/there-are-fates-worse-than-death-the-opw2013-keynote

#moe on irc.perl.org


Olaf
--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From stuart at morungos.com  Wed Jan 16 08:10:32 2013
From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:10:32 -0500
Subject: [tpm] We still don't have a topic for this month
In-Reply-To: <388BAE8A-F130-4DC0-967C-43B757014A54@gmail.com>
References: <df0aad08ddc963baef4e9d5e8d70ddd5.squirrel@mail.vex.net>
	<388BAE8A-F130-4DC0-967C-43B757014A54@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF18702E-96CC-4A08-BD04-FE920CB2814A@morungos.com>

I'd volunteer to cover Scala (since I'm using it a lot now) and would love to assist, but unfortunately I'm out of the country that day. Moe would be very cool to see. 

You can punish me with something soon to make up for it. Perhaps CoffeeScript + Perl?

--S

On 2013-01-16, at 10:51 AM, Olaf Alders wrote:

> 
> On 2013-01-16, at 10:11 AM, arocker at vex.net wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Any volunteers, or do I have to threaten to do something?
> 
> Well, it would actually be interesting if someone did a quick intro to Scala and then we all tried hacking on Moe.  If there's nobody to do a Scala tutorial, we could just try to muddle through Moe together.
> 
> https://github.com/stevan/moe
> 
> https://speakerdeck.com/stevan_little/perl-is-not-dead-it-is-a-dead-end
> https://speakerdeck.com/genehack/there-are-fates-worse-than-death-the-opw2013-keynote
> 
> #moe on irc.perl.org
> 
> 
> Olaf
> --
> Olaf Alders
> olaf.alders at gmail.com
> 
> http://www.wundercounter.com
> http://twitter.com/wundercounter
> 
> 866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
> 416 944 8306 (direct)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm


From antoniosun at lavabit.com  Thu Jan 17 08:18:02 2013
From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:18:02 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
Message-ID: <CAKczvCb9QyW=FW9rcPsmB7-Egz17-4nP8N8u_1PSOiaEKm8HPg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Perl Mongers,

An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo
under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?

My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any remote
repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up under a
sub-folder of another remote Git repo.

Please help.

Thanks
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From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 08:22:14 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:22:14 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
In-Reply-To: <CAKczvCb9QyW=FW9rcPsmB7-Egz17-4nP8N8u_1PSOiaEKm8HPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKczvCb9QyW=FW9rcPsmB7-Egz17-4nP8N8u_1PSOiaEKm8HPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <604D1010-8EB3-4221-A033-93793F230A9A@gmail.com>


On 2013-01-17, at 11:18 AM, Antonio Sun wrote:

> Hi Perl Mongers, 
> 
> An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
> 
> My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo. 


Hi Antonio,

I think you want "git submodule".

http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules

Best,

Olaf
--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From antoniosun at lavabit.com  Thu Jan 17 09:12:27 2013
From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:12:27 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
In-Reply-To: <604D1010-8EB3-4221-A033-93793F230A9A@gmail.com>
References: <CAKczvCb9QyW=FW9rcPsmB7-Egz17-4nP8N8u_1PSOiaEKm8HPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<604D1010-8EB3-4221-A033-93793F230A9A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKczvCbsA1ucezz_xDz18QT+FYybg+rTXC39zB6BL=OCkqN02Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo
> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
> >
> > My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any
> remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up
> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> I think you want "git submodule".
>
> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>

Thanks Olaf,

That's not quite what I was looking for. For git submodule, "you want to be
able to treat the two projects as *separate *yet still be able to use one
from within the other. . .  Submodules allow you to keep a Git repository
as a subdirectory of another Git repository. This lets you clone another
repository into your project and keep your commits separate."

I wasn't able to find a remote repo for my local repo until recently, now I
just want to give my local repo a remote repo, but should be under a sub
folder. Afterward, there would be only one *combined *repo. Would that be
possible?

Thanks
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From mattp at cpan.org  Thu Jan 17 09:24:33 2013
From: mattp at cpan.org (Matthew Phillips)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:24:33 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
In-Reply-To: <CAKczvCbsA1ucezz_xDz18QT+FYybg+rTXC39zB6BL=OCkqN02Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKczvCb9QyW=FW9rcPsmB7-Egz17-4nP8N8u_1PSOiaEKm8HPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<604D1010-8EB3-4221-A033-93793F230A9A@gmail.com>
	<CAKczvCbsA1ucezz_xDz18QT+FYybg+rTXC39zB6BL=OCkqN02Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFWy7AYj74u5N+cO75HWLEqSKUHqRdHcD3yTLQboW2-bOwgy8A@mail.gmail.com>

Antonio,
You would want to use git subtree for this use case:
http://git-scm.com/book/ch6-7.html  (Antonio, sorry for the double send.
meant to reply-all).

Cheers,
Matt

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com>wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> > An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo
>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>> >
>> > My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any
>> remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up
>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>>
>>
>> Hi Antonio,
>>
>> I think you want "git submodule".
>>
>> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>>
>
> Thanks Olaf,
>
> That's not quite what I was looking for. For git submodule, "you want to
> be able to treat the two projects as *separate *yet still be able to use
> one from within the other. . .  Submodules allow you to keep a Git
> repository as a subdirectory of another Git repository. This lets you clone
> another repository into your project and keep your commits separate."
>
> I wasn't able to find a remote repo for my local repo until recently, now
> I just want to give my local repo a remote repo, but should be under a sub
> folder. Afterward, there would be only one *combined *repo. Would that be
> possible?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
>
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From fifteen3 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 10:49:00 2013
From: fifteen3 at gmail.com (Carlo Costantini)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:49:00 -0500
Subject: [tpm]  [OT] Git repo combination
Message-ID: <CAFb7fhL3KhL-GBtRA2eCGPA1HEZVSuehXkVpkvpLuBPrUP-O9w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Antonio,

I am going to call your remote repo 'RepoB' and your local 'RepoA'.

Is RepoB empty with no commits?

If it is not empty then yes you will need to use git subtree.
git subtree is for specifically combining two histories that do not
share a common commit.

If it is empty then you do not need to use git subtree.

You only need to add a remote repo to RepoA that points at RepoB and
'git push' your changes there.
The reason this will work is that RepoB has no conflicting history.

Sorry if this email was not required but your use of terms made me
question exactly what you need to do.

Hope I helped.

Carlo

>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:18:02 -0500
> From: Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com>
> To: TPM Mongers <tpm at to.pm.org>
> Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKczvCb9QyW=FW9rcPsmB7-Egz17-4nP8N8u_1PSOiaEKm8HPg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Perl Mongers,
>
> An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo
> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>
> My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any remote
> repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up under a
> sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>
> Please help.
>
> Thanks
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/toronto-pm/attachments/20130117/54f31942/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:22:14 -0500
> From: Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com>
> To: Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com>
> Cc: TPM Mongers <tpm at to.pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
> Message-ID: <604D1010-8EB3-4221-A033-93793F230A9A at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 2013-01-17, at 11:18 AM, Antonio Sun wrote:
>
>> Hi Perl Mongers,
>>
>> An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>>
>> My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> I think you want "git submodule".
>
> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>
> Best,
>
> Olaf
> --
> Olaf Alders
> olaf.alders at gmail.com
>
> http://www.wundercounter.com
> http://twitter.com/wundercounter
>
> 866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
> 416 944 8306 (direct)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:12:27 -0500
> From: Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com>
> To: Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com>
> Cc: TPM Mongers <tpm at to.pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKczvCbsA1ucezz_xDz18QT+FYybg+rTXC39zB6BL=OCkqN02Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> > An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo
>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>> >
>> > My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any
>> remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up
>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>>
>>
>> Hi Antonio,
>>
>> I think you want "git submodule".
>>
>> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>>
>
> Thanks Olaf,
>
> That's not quite what I was looking for. For git submodule, "you want to be
> able to treat the two projects as *separate *yet still be able to use one
> from within the other. . .  Submodules allow you to keep a Git repository
> as a subdirectory of another Git repository. This lets you clone another
> repository into your project and keep your commits separate."
>
> I wasn't able to find a remote repo for my local repo until recently, now I
> just want to give my local repo a remote repo, but should be under a sub
> folder. Afterward, there would be only one *combined *repo. Would that be
> possible?
>
> Thanks
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/toronto-pm/attachments/20130117/f0eb7f63/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:24:33 -0500
> From: Matthew Phillips <mattp at cpan.org>
> To: Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com>
> Cc: TPM Mongers <tpm at to.pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
> Message-ID:
>         <CAFWy7AYj74u5N+cO75HWLEqSKUHqRdHcD3yTLQboW2-bOwgy8A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Antonio,
> You would want to use git subtree for this use case:
> http://git-scm.com/book/ch6-7.html  (Antonio, sorry for the double send.
> meant to reply-all).
>
> Cheers,
> Matt
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo
>>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>>> >
>>> > My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any
>>> remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up
>>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Antonio,
>>>
>>> I think you want "git submodule".
>>>
>>> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>>>
>>
>> Thanks Olaf,
>>
>> That's not quite what I was looking for. For git submodule, "you want to
>> be able to treat the two projects as *separate *yet still be able to use
>> one from within the other. . .  Submodules allow you to keep a Git
>> repository as a subdirectory of another Git repository. This lets you clone
>> another repository into your project and keep your commits separate."
>>
>> I wasn't able to find a remote repo for my local repo until recently, now
>> I just want to give my local repo a remote repo, but should be under a sub
>> folder. Afterward, there would be only one *combined *repo. Would that be
>> possible?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> toronto-pm mailing list
>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
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> End of toronto-pm Digest, Vol 70, Issue 8
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From jbl at jbldata.com  Thu Jan 17 11:11:33 2013
From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:11:33 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
In-Reply-To: <CAKczvCbsA1ucezz_xDz18QT+FYybg+rTXC39zB6BL=OCkqN02Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKczvCb9QyW=FW9rcPsmB7-Egz17-4nP8N8u_1PSOiaEKm8HPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<604D1010-8EB3-4221-A033-93793F230A9A@gmail.com>
	<CAKczvCbsA1ucezz_xDz18QT+FYybg+rTXC39zB6BL=OCkqN02Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50F84CE5.9000609@jbldata.com>

Sounds to me like you want to do a merge.

I think the only way to do it successfully in your case, is that you'd 
have to make some changes to your local repo first.

For example, lets say you have two repos.  Repo-A (yours), and Repo-B 
(the remote repo that you would like your Repo-A to reside in as a 
sub-directory).

If your Repo-A has the following layout (for example):

Repo-A:
dir1/
dir2/
dir3/
file1
file2


And the remote repo (Repo-B) has the following layout (for example):

Repo-B:
dir4/
dir5/
file3
file4


You would have to alter your local repository to modify it's layout, 
tossing everything into a sub-directory:

Repo-A becomes:

antonios-stuff/dir1/
antonios-stuff/dir2/
antonios-stuff/dir3/
antonios-stuff/file1
antonios-stuff/file2


After you commit these changes to your to your local repository 
(Repo-A), you should be able to do a merge to Repo-B without causing any 
conflicts.

The end result would be of course:


Repo-B:
dir4/
dir5/
file3
file4
antonios-stuff/dir1/
antonios-stuff/dir2/
antonios-stuff/dir3/
antonios-stuff/file1
antonios-stuff/file2

As Carlo just mentioned (as I was typing this up), git-subtree may 
provide this functionality (haven't used it myself).

Not sure if this was quite what you were looking for, but the above 
seems to me like it would work for your needs (without my knowing too 
much detail).

Hope it all works out for you.

Cheers,
-Bobby

On 13-01-17 12:12 PM, Antonio Sun wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com 
> <mailto:olaf.alders at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     > An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed
>     Git repo under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>     >
>     > My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without
>     any remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories,
>     can show up under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>
>
>     Hi Antonio,
>
>     I think you want "git submodule".
>
>     http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>
>
> Thanks Olaf,
>
> That's not quite what I was looking for. For git submodule, "you want 
> to be able to treat the two projects as *separate *yet still be able 
> to use one from within the other. . . Submodules allow you to keep a 
> Git repository as a subdirectory of another Git repository. This lets 
> you clone another repository into your project and keep your commits 
> separate."
>
> I wasn't able to find a remote repo for my local repo until recently, 
> now I just want to give my local repo a remote repo, but should be 
> under a sub folder. Afterward, there would be only one *combined 
> *repo. Would that be possible?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

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From antoniosun at lavabit.com  Thu Jan 17 12:52:47 2013
From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:52:47 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
In-Reply-To: <vnqffie64ebwfn14wrfs9s8f.1358444568474@email.android.com>
References: <vnqffie64ebwfn14wrfs9s8f.1358444568474@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAKczvCbZojiC1pGCqU+MvuhEe3a_F29FFSY++5Rddf4_71CB_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your replies, everyone. Sorry for responding late, because
I've got a lot of reading and trying to do. Now,

First of all, a recap of what I want to do -- I have a local git repo to
track my code, but I wasn't able to find a remote repo for it until
recently. Thus, it is pure local. Now I just want to put my local code under
a sub folder of a remote repo (and keep the histories). Afterward, there
would be only one *combined *repo.

Now, a recap of suggested solutions. Olaf and Matt suggested "git
submodule" and "git subtree". Having read them though, I think the two
method are more toward putting two separated git repo together, while
having a way to maintain them separately. Same goal, different approaches.

As Abram and Bobby, suggested a simple git merge would be good enough for
my case. But the problem for me is that I not only have to know how to do
it, but I had to figure out what git command should I use to do it. so,

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Abram Hindle <
abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es> wrote:

> One thing you can do is clone your local repo and then make the subdir in
> the clone. Then you tell the cloned git to move all files into that subdir.
> Then commit that.
>

I was stuck at trying to move the git root into a sub folder, but in the
end, I made it.



> Now your clone repo needs the commits of the remote repo.So pull the
> branch from remote into the cloned repo. Now you have merged the commits.


This is the step I get stuck again. I wasn't able to figure out what git
command I should use to pull the branch from remote into the cloned repo,
or as Bobby's method, to merge to Repo-B. (I was trying to do "git remote
add origin", but got the "fatal: remote origin already exists" error
for my pure
local git clone; and I don't know how to merge to remote Repo-B at this
point).

Please help.

Thanks.



> Now you can push back to the remote.


> Now your remote repo has your new local repo inside of it. You probably
> should just use this new local merged repo instead of the old one.
> --
> Abram Hindle
>
> Sent from my Android powered rock tumbler
>
> Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> > An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally managed Git repo
>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>> >
>> > My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally, without any
>> remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the histories, can show up
>> under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo.
>>
>>
>> Hi Antonio,
>>
>> I think you want "git submodule".
>>
>> http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>>
>
> Thanks Olaf,
>
> That's not quite what I was looking for. For git submodule, "you want to
> be able to treat the two projects as *separate *yet still be able to use
> one from within the other. . .  Submodules allow you to keep a Git
> repository as a subdirectory of another Git repository. This lets you clone
> another repository into your project and keep your commits separate."
>
> I wasn't able to find a remote repo for my local repo until recently, now
> I just want to give my local repo a remote repo, but should be under a sub
> folder. Afterward, there would be only one *combined *repo. Would that be
> possible?
>
> Thanks
>
>
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From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es  Thu Jan 17 13:11:15 2013
From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es (Abram Hindle)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:11:15 -0700
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
In-Reply-To: <CAKczvCbZojiC1pGCqU+MvuhEe3a_F29FFSY++5Rddf4_71CB_A@mail.gmail.com>
	(sfid-20130117_135607_229682_D5E9BD83)
References: <vnqffie64ebwfn14wrfs9s8f.1358444568474@email.android.com>
	<CAKczvCbZojiC1pGCqU+MvuhEe3a_F29FFSY++5Rddf4_71CB_A@mail.gmail.com>
	(sfid-20130117_135607_229682_D5E9BD83)
Message-ID: <50F868F3.7040102@softwareprocess.es>

Hi Antonio,

Here's a textual demo and I've attached a typescript. In this session I
merge proj1 into a subdir of proj2.

The subtree method is pretty well equivalent to this. I use cloning
because it is less hassle than pulling to a new branch.

abram

Script started on Thu 17 Jan 2013 01:59:15 PM MST
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ mkdir proj1
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ cd proj1/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ git init
Initialized empty Git repository in /tmp/sun/proj1/.git/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ man df > proj1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ man wc > proj1.1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ man man > proj1.2.txt
<standard input>:977: warning [p 8, 0.8i, div `3tbd1,0', 0.0i]: cannot
adjust line
<standard input>:986: warning [p 8, 0.8i, div `3tbd4,0', 0.0i]: cannot
adjust line
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ head proj1.2.txt
MAN(1)                        Manual pager utils                       
MAN(1)



NAME
       man - an interface to the on-line reference manuals

SYNOPSIS
       man  [-C  file]  [-d]  [-D]  [--warnings[=warnings]]  [-R
encoding] [-L
       locale] [-m system[,...]] [-M path] [-S list]  [-e  extension] 
[-i|-I]
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ ls
proj1.1.txt  proj1.2.txt  proj1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ git add *.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ git commit -am 'add files'
[master (root-commit) 4360502] add files
 3 files changed, 897 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 proj1.1.txt
 create mode 100644 proj1.2.txt
 create mode 100644 proj1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ head proj1.txt > proj1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ git commit -am 'truncate'
[master edf39f0] truncate
 1 file changed, 117 deletions(-)
 rewrite proj1.txt (100%)
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ sort proj1.2.txt > proj1.2.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ git commit -am 'sort'
[master 51b7271] sort
 1 file changed, 710 deletions(-)
 rewrite proj1.2.txt (100%)
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ sort -n proj1.2.txt > proj1.2.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ git commit -am 'sort'
# On branch master
nothing to commit (working directory clean)
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ cd ..
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ mkdir proj2
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ cd proj2/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git init
Initialized empty Git repository in /tmp/sun/proj2/.git/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ mkdir t1
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ mkdir t2
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ mkdir t3
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ man ls > t1/t1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ man bash > t1/t2.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ man bash | sort > t3/t3.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ ls
t1  t2  t3
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git add */*
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git commit -am 'init'
[master (root-commit) 4d0fa8b] init
 3 files changed, 11161 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 t1/t1.txt
 create mode 100644 t1/t2.txt
 create mode 100644 t3/t3.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ sort t1/t1.txt > t1/t1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git commit -am 'sorted'
[master d697636] sorted
 1 file changed, 243 deletions(-)
 rewrite t1/t1.txt (100%)
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git log
commit d697636d78e861edd7917b8bebe182cd1c0febbb
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:03:04 2013 -0700

    sorted

commit 4d0fa8b0c1231b826e9b6424f080986bec6aaaeb
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:02:47 2013 -0700

    init
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ cd ..
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ cd proj2
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git log
commit d697636d78e861edd7917b8bebe182cd1c0febbb
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:03:04 2013 -0700

    sorted

commit 4d0fa8b0c1231b826e9b6424f080986bec6aaaeb
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:02:47 2013 -0700

    init
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ cd ..
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ cd proj1
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ git log
commit 51b7271ec9f075b9d5ce4d2f7798b831ff2b88b4
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:36 2013 -0700

    sort

commit edf39f0c5d083383e2fa518f095265e44b734b7c
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:19 2013 -0700

    truncate

commit 4360502c32ca377f64f478e21421b5663372a8ed
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:04 2013 -0700

    add files
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1$ cd ..
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ ls
proj1  proj2  typescript
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ git clone proj1 proj1.prep
Cloning into 'proj1.prep'...
done.
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ cd proj1.prep/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ ls
proj1.1.txt  proj1.2.txt  proj1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ mkdir proj1
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ git mv *.txt proj1
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ git status
# On branch master
# Changes to be committed:
#   (use "git reset HEAD <file>..." to unstage)
#
#    renamed:    proj1.1.txt -> proj1/proj1.1.txt
#    renamed:    proj1.2.txt -> proj1/proj1.2.txt
#    renamed:    proj1.txt -> proj1/proj1.txt
#
ir'dle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ git commit -am 'moved the root
to a subd
[master a97babd] moved the root to a subdir
 3 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
 rename proj1.1.txt => proj1/proj1.1.txt (100%)
 rename proj1.2.txt => proj1/proj1.2.txt (100%)
 rename proj1.txt => proj1/proj1.txt (100%)
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ git log
commit a97babdd7bccd51851c2c0d288de852dc884384a
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:03:55 2013 -0700

    moved the root to a subdir

commit 51b7271ec9f075b9d5ce4d2f7798b831ff2b88b4
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:36 2013 -0700

    sort

commit edf39f0c5d083383e2fa518f095265e44b734b7c
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:19 2013 -0700

    truncate

commit 4360502c32ca377f64f478e21421b5663372a8ed
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:04 2013 -0700
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ ls
proj1
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ cd ..
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ ls
proj1  proj1.prep  proj2  typescript
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ echo "now to merge into proj2"
now to merge into proj2
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ cd proj2/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ ls
t1  t2  t3
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git pull ../proj2/ master
>From ../proj2
 * branch            master     -> FETCH_HEAD
Already up-to-date.
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ ls -l
total 12
drwxrwxr-x 2 hindle1 hindle1 4096 Jan 17 14:02 t1
drwxrwxr-x 2 hindle1 hindle1 4096 Jan 17 14:02 t2
drwxrwxr-x 2 hindle1 hindle1 4096 Jan 17 14:02 t3
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ #oops
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git branch
* master
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ cd ../proj1.prep/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ git branch
* master
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj1.prep$ cd ..
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun$ cd proj2/
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git pull ../proj1.prep/ master
warning: no common commits
remote: Counting objects: 12, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (10/10), done.
remote: Total 12 (delta 1), reused 0 (delta 0)
Unpacking objects: 100% (12/12), done.
>From ../proj1.prep
 * branch            master     -> FETCH_HEAD
Merge made by the 'recursive' strategy.
 proj1/proj1.1.txt |   70
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 70 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 proj1/proj1.1.txt
 create mode 100644 proj1/proj1.2.txt
 create mode 100644 proj1/proj1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ ls -l
total 16
drwxrwxr-x 2 hindle1 hindle1 4096 Jan 17 14:05 proj1
drwxrwxr-x 2 hindle1 hindle1 4096 Jan 17 14:02 t1
drwxrwxr-x 2 hindle1 hindle1 4096 Jan 17 14:02 t2
drwxrwxr-x 2 hindle1 hindle1 4096 Jan 17 14:02 t3
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ ls -l proj1/
total 4
-rw-rw-r-- 1 hindle1 hindle1 2278 Jan 17 14:05 proj1.1.txt
-rw-rw-r-- 1 hindle1 hindle1    0 Jan 17 14:05 proj1.2.txt
-rw-rw-r-- 1 hindle1 hindle1    0 Jan 17 14:05 proj1.txt
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git log
commit d9e3b6cc84a24bc572b3b6534b21b3f5f82eea1c
Merge: d697636 a97babd
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:05:14 2013 -0700

    Merge branch 'master' of ../proj1.prep

commit a97babdd7bccd51851c2c0d288de852dc884384a
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:03:55 2013 -0700

    moved the root to a subdir

commit d697636d78e861edd7917b8bebe182cd1c0febbb
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:03:04 2013 -0700

    sorted

commit 4d0fa8b0c1231b826e9b6424f080986bec6aaaeb
Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ git log --graph
*   commit d9e3b6cc84a24bc572b3b6534b21b3f5f82eea1c
|\  Merge: d697636 a97babd
| | Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
| | Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:05:14 2013 -0700
| |
| |     Merge branch 'master' of ../proj1.prep
| |  
| * commit a97babdd7bccd51851c2c0d288de852dc884384a
| | Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
| | Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:03:55 2013 -0700
| |
| |     moved the root to a subdir
| |  
| * commit 51b7271ec9f075b9d5ce4d2f7798b831ff2b88b4
| | Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
| | Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:36 2013 -0700
| |
| |     sort
| |  
| * commit edf39f0c5d083383e2fa518f095265e44b734b7c
| | Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
| | Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:19 2013 -0700
| |
| |     truncate
| |  
| * commit 4360502c32ca377f64f478e21421b5663372a8ed
|   Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
|   Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:01:04 2013 -0700
|  
|       add files
| 
* commit d697636d78e861edd7917b8bebe182cd1c0febbb
| Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
| Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:03:04 2013 -0700
|
|     sorted
| 
* commit 4d0fa8b0c1231b826e9b6424f080986bec6aaaeb
  Author: Abram Hindle <abram.hindle at ualberta.ca>
  Date:   Thu Jan 17 14:02:47 2013 -0700
 
      init
hindle1 at st-francis:/tmp/sun/proj2$ exit

Script done on Thu 17 Jan 2013 02:07:41 PM MST


On 13-01-17 01:52 PM, Antonio Sun wrote:
> Hi, 
>
> Thanks a lot for your replies, everyone. Sorry for responding late,
> because I've got a lot of reading and trying to do. Now, 
>
> First of all, a recap of what I want to do -- I have a local git repo
> to track my code, but I wasn't able to find a remote repo for it until
> recently. Thus, it is pure local. Now I just want to put my local
> code under a sub folder of a remote repo (and keep the histories).
> Afterward, there would be only one *combined *repo. 
>
> Now, a recap of suggested solutions. Olaf and Matt suggested "git
> submodule" and "git subtree". Having read them though, I think the two
> method are more toward putting two separated git repo together, while
> having a way to maintain them separately. Same goal, different
> approaches. 
>
> As Abram and Bobby, suggested a simple git merge would be good enough
> for my case. But the problem for me is that I not only have to know
> how to do it, but I had to figure out what git command should I use to
> do it. so,
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Abram Hindle
> <abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es
> <mailto:abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es>> wrote:
>
>     One thing you can do is clone your local repo and then make the
>     subdir in the clone. Then you tell the cloned git to move all
>     files into that subdir. Then commit that.
>
>
> I was stuck at trying to move the git root into a sub folder, but in
> the end, I made it. 
>
>  
>
>     Now your clone repo needs the commits of the remote repo.So pull
>     the branch from remote into the cloned repo. Now you have merged
>     the commits. 
>
>
> This is the step I get stuck again. I wasn't able to figure out what
> git command I should use to pull the branch from remote into the
> cloned repo, or as Bobby's method, to merge to Repo-B. (I was trying
> to do "git remote add origin", but got the "fatal: remote origin
> already exists" error for my pure local git clone; and I don't know
> how to merge to remote Repo-B at this point).
>
> Please help. 
>
> Thanks.
>
>  
>
>     Now you can push back to the remote. 
>
>
>     Now your remote repo has your new local repo inside of it. You
>     probably should just use this new local merged repo instead of the
>     old one.
>     --
>     Abram Hindle
>
>     Sent from my Android powered rock tumbler
>
>     Antonio Sun <antoniosun at lavabit.com
>     <mailto:antoniosun at lavabit.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>     On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Olaf Alders
>     <olaf.alders at gmail.com <mailto:olaf.alders at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>         > An off-topic question on Git -- how to put my locally
>         managed Git repo under a sub-folder of another remote Git repo?
>         >
>         > My locally managed Git repo was created totally locally,
>         without any remote repo. Now I hope everything, including the
>         histories, can show up under a sub-folder of another remote
>         Git repo.
>
>
>         Hi Antonio,
>
>         I think you want "git submodule".
>
>         http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Tools-Submodules
>
>
>     Thanks Olaf, 
>
>     That's not quite what I was looking for. For git submodule, "you
>     want to be able to treat the two projects as *separate *yet still
>     be able to use one from within the other. . .  Submodules allow
>     you to keep a Git repository as a subdirectory of another Git
>     repository. This lets you clone another repository into your
>     project and keep your commits separate." 
>
>     I wasn't able to find a remote repo for my local repo until
>     recently, now I just want to give my local repo a remote repo, but
>     should be under a sub folder. Afterward, there would be only one
>     *combined *repo. Would that be possible? 
>
>     Thanks
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

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From antoniosun at lavabit.com  Thu Jan 17 13:29:09 2013
From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:29:09 -0500
Subject: [tpm] [OT] Git repo combination
In-Reply-To: <50F868F3.7040102@softwareprocess.es>
References: <vnqffie64ebwfn14wrfs9s8f.1358444568474@email.android.com>
	<CAKczvCbZojiC1pGCqU+MvuhEe3a_F29FFSY++5Rddf4_71CB_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F868F3.7040102@softwareprocess.es>
Message-ID: <CAKczvCZmJdUHhorLvjaL+PgbsMKRxXV7WihHyZSXX1vxj5JUeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Abram Hindle <
abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es> wrote:

> Here's a textual demo and I've attached a typescript. In this session I
> merge proj1 into a subdir of proj2.
>

Thanks a million Abram!

Just FTR, I tried "git pull" as well, but get this. :-)

$ git pull
 * [new branch]      master     -> origin/master
You asked me to pull without telling me which branch you
want to merge with, and 'branch.master.merge' in
your configuration file does not tell me, either.

Your typescript is really helpful.
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From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 23:40:16 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 02:40:16 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Dancer site is now live
Message-ID: <7EFD0B52-4921-4377-97D1-4A1F0F5B1FCA@gmail.com>

So, it has been a year or so since we started upgrading the site and it's now live.  What I've got in place is not perfect.  We're missing the details of some meetings and the RSS feed is not yet working.  If anyone wants to pitch in and fix anything, here are the details:

The app is a Dancer app, but we're using Wallflower to create a static site, which we then upload to Indy's server.

https://metacpan.org/module/App::Wallflower

If content is missing, we can port it over from:

https://github.com/mikestok/tpm-webpage-generator

You can fork and send pull requests here:

https://github.com/toronto-perl-mongers/tpm-website

We're now working in the master branch.  I kind of hate git-flow now.  github-flow is probably a more appropriate workflow for this.

Check the README for how to generate the static site.  There are some issues with Wallflower and how to treat trailing slashes, so I've added some workarounds to the code to get things going.  You may want a local nginx or something to serve up the static files when you test them.  That can make things a bit easier, but it's not required by any stretch.

Let me know if you have any questions.  

A big thanks to everyone who pitched in on the site creation, anyone who nagged me to do this (Mike, Jim Keenan) as well as Matt for getting the initial demo site online and Indy for continuing to donate the hosting for the site.  I think we probably have the best looking PM site out there at this point.  :)

Olaf


--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From mike at stok.ca  Sat Jan 19 07:47:25 2013
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 10:47:25 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Dancer site is now live
In-Reply-To: <7EFD0B52-4921-4377-97D1-4A1F0F5B1FCA@gmail.com>
References: <7EFD0B52-4921-4377-97D1-4A1F0F5B1FCA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0BA60BD1-6677-4B8F-932B-377567001C4E@stok.ca>

Thanks Olaf, Matt, and all the other contributors both for the new work and for consigning the old "design" to the mists of time!

Thinking about future meetings, and possible things to discuss here are a few ideas, and things which have interested me:

How we get new content onto the web site (for example the details of upcoming meetings).
Comparison of git-flow (a big support script) and github-flow http://scottchacon.com/2011/08/31/github-flow.html etc.
The rust programming language http://www.rust-lang.org.
Vim tricks (emacs, nano, any other IDE tricks included :-) ).
Sandi Metz's new book, although Ruby focussed the design principles and practices are generally applicable http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Object-Oriented-Design-Ruby-Addison-Wesley/dp/0321721330
...

Once the next couple of months are over I should have some time to get a talk together about something...

Mike

On 2013-01-19, at 2:40 AM, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com> wrote:

> So, it has been a year or so since we started upgrading the site and it's now live.  What I've got in place is not perfect.  We're missing the details of some meetings and the RSS feed is not yet working.  If anyone wants to pitch in and fix anything, here are the details:
> 
> The app is a Dancer app, but we're using Wallflower to create a static site, which we then upload to Indy's server.
> 
> https://metacpan.org/module/App::Wallflower
> 
> If content is missing, we can port it over from:
> 
> https://github.com/mikestok/tpm-webpage-generator
> 
> You can fork and send pull requests here:
> 
> https://github.com/toronto-perl-mongers/tpm-website
> 
> We're now working in the master branch.  I kind of hate git-flow now.  github-flow is probably a more appropriate workflow for this.
> 
> Check the README for how to generate the static site.  There are some issues with Wallflower and how to treat trailing slashes, so I've added some workarounds to the code to get things going.  You may want a local nginx or something to serve up the static files when you test them.  That can make things a bit easier, but it's not required by any stretch.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions.  
> 
> A big thanks to everyone who pitched in on the site creation, anyone who nagged me to do this (Mike, Jim Keenan) as well as Matt for getting the initial demo site online and Indy for continuing to donate the hosting for the site.  I think we probably have the best looking PM site out there at this point.  :)
> 
> Olaf
> 
> 
> --
> Olaf Alders
> olaf.alders at gmail.com
> 
> http://www.wundercounter.com
> http://twitter.com/wundercounter
> 
> 866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
> 416 944 8306 (direct)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 07:27:39 2013
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 10:27:39 -0500
Subject: [tpm] downloading 'filtered' gmail via imap
Message-ID: <CAGuV3hOk5gim31iPEsb1BibMa42sbn6PONc4jG9L2K=gBvRVgw@mail.gmail.com>

I developed a simple utility that allows me to download
some of my gmail into seperate files on my filesystem
using Net::IMAP::Simple.  I can select the 'mailbox'
and download everything in it.

The trouble is that when you $imap_sess->select($mailbox);
in Gmail 'mailbox' ==' 'tag', so it actually selects all
messages with that 'tag' instead.  But deleted messages
are not really 'moved' to another mailbox, or are marked
(in IMAP terms) as 'deleted', they simply receive another
tag called 'Trash'.
 if your messages have a tag on them, AND
you delete them; they will also receive the tag 'Trash'.

So when I select the mailbox (aka. tag) 'mybox',
I will get all those messages, but all the 'deleted' ones
(with the additional 'Trash' tag, also get selected
because they have both tags: 'mybox' AND 'Trash'.

Can anyone suggest a simple mechanism for 'mybox' and not 'Trash'?

(I tried getting the UIDs, and performing a exclusionary
masking process between the two sets, but the unique IDs
I was seeing didn't seem overly unique.)

TIA
Fulko
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From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 09:35:33 2013
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:35:33 -0500
Subject: [tpm] downloading 'filtered' gmail via imap
In-Reply-To: <51000A55.6020406@Instantiated.Ca>
References: <CAGuV3hOk5gim31iPEsb1BibMa42sbn6PONc4jG9L2K=gBvRVgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<51000A55.6020406@Instantiated.Ca>
Message-ID: <CAGuV3hOsTnP3tzvnzhQPtz04UYb6PibyE2fKq5fMVL1FEkhNbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Henry Baragar <
Henry.Baragar at instantiated.ca> wrote:

>  Fulko,
>
> Have you tried emptying the Trash before downloading?  Its possible that
> it can be accomplished using the EXPUNGE IMAP command.
>

Yes, but...
I wouldn't want to empty 'all' my trash (because I sort of use that as a
backup/history
that I occasionally refer back to (if Gmail hasn't auto-purged it yet after
its 30 day limit)).

And, Gmail has removed the (easy) way to permanently delete stuff from
Trash.
Ie.  If you can find the specific mail, you can delete it, but if you
search in the
Trash for the ones you are interested in, they no longer provide a delete
button.
(Others have complained about this already to Google... to no avail.)

So scrolling through 1700+ msgs in the Trash isn't practical, and their
search+delete
mechanism is broken.  So I'm looking for a (usable) alternative.



> On 13-01-23 10:27 AM, Fulko Hew wrote:
>
> I developed a simple utility that allows me to download
> some of my gmail into seperate files on my filesystem
> using Net::IMAP::Simple.  I can select the 'mailbox'
> and download everything in it.
>
> The trouble is that when you $imap_sess->select($mailbox);
> in Gmail 'mailbox' ==' 'tag', so it actually selects all
> messages with that 'tag' instead.  But deleted messages
> are not really 'moved' to another mailbox, or are marked
> (in IMAP terms) as 'deleted', they simply receive another
> tag called 'Trash'.
>  if your messages have a tag on them, AND
> you delete them; they will also receive the tag 'Trash'.
>
> So when I select the mailbox (aka. tag) 'mybox',
> I will get all those messages, but all the 'deleted' ones
> (with the additional 'Trash' tag, also get selected
> because they have both tags: 'mybox' AND 'Trash'.
>
> Can anyone suggest a simple mechanism for 'mybox' and not 'Trash'?
>
> (I tried getting the UIDs, and performing a exclusionary
> masking process between the two sets, but the unique IDs
> I was seeing didn't seem overly unique.)
>
> TIA
> Fulko
>
>
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From mike at stok.ca  Thu Jan 24 10:39:34 2013
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:39:34 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
Message-ID: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>

As the last Thursday looms, maybe we could do something simple.  I'd be happy to talk for about 5 minutes each on one technical and one non-techincal book I have read recently or am reading which I think are useful.  If we had three or four people doing that then it would be a reason to go.

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From arocker at Vex.Net  Thu Jan 24 10:59:57 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:59:57 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <7ff9be39cadd31ae2d314db3dc502cec.squirrel@mail.vex.net>

> As the last Thursday looms, maybe we could do something simple.  I'd be
> happy to talk for about 5 minutes each on one technical and one
> non-techincal book I have read recently

I've recently read "The Sciences of the Artificial", and would be willing
to talk about it, if people don't already know it.

I'd also be very interested in hearing about Test:: modules. I think I
have the basic idea, but still have questions about how to use them.


From jbl at jbldata.com  Thu Jan 24 11:31:34 2013
From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:31:34 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>

A few disjointed thoughts I've had recently (topics that I personally 
find interesting):

  * Discussing the meeting topics in general, with focus on tackling
    modern problems and projects with Perl
      o i.e:  Concurrency problems; making DBIx::Class's auto-schema
        generator less error prone (w/r/t table names and relationships)
      o Moe is a great idea, but aside from fact that it will run on the
        JVM, and will have concurrency benefits because of Scala, what
        else would people be interested in using Moe for that may be
        difficult to do right now?


  * Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be
    there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote
    users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform
    (twitter, email, irc)
      o This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with
        the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in
        nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more
        to get with the (social) times.
      o Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few
        meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have
        some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going
        forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a
        possibility!


  * Although TMTOWTDI is something we encourage at the earliest stages
    of learning, I think it would be beneficial for Perl veterans to
    work closely to put together a bit of a "starter package", a list of
    modules we would recommend to someone doing project of type X -
    e.g.:  Doing a web app?  Start with Dancer.  Need your app to send 
    e-mails?  Try Email::Sender.. etc.
      o An argument could be made that MetaCPAN already does some of
        this via the module ratings, however we still leave it up to to
        new Perl devs to make a choice between several options. I often
        find that many of today's developers are looking for the most
        "commonly used/accepted" way of doing things so that they have a
        solid starting point.  Sometimes too many options can kill
        progress, and therefore interest.
      o Consider that Perl doesn't really have much corporate support
        (although it's likely being used heavily in corporate
        environments), so it is on the users themselves to promote what
        they like about it.


  * PerlDroid
      o http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12212827/can-i-develop-android-applications-in-perl
      o https://code.google.com/p/perldroid/
      o https://code.google.com/p/perl-android-apk/



Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on 
the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but 
just figured I'd help to further the discussion.

Cheers,
-Bobby



On 13-01-24 01:39 PM, Mike Stok wrote:
> As the last Thursday looms, maybe we could do something simple.  I'd 
> be happy to talk for about 5 minutes each on one technical and one 
> non-techincal book I have read recently or am reading which I think 
> are useful.  If we had three or four people doing that then it would 
> be a reason to go.
>
> Mike
>
> -- 
>
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca <mailto:mike at stok.ca>>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/ <http://www.stok.ca/%7Emike/>
>
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

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From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 11:38:33 2013
From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:38:33 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
Message-ID: <CAAyyWE-cUu5WX1XUqUshAYoS2OcQ5qzdRcNxcKgS8gZ9G_vsAg@mail.gmail.com>

Sadly, I won't be there this month or next but I thought I'd mention:

On 24 January 2013 14:31, J. Bobby Lopez <jbl at jbldata.com> wrote:

>
>    - Although TMTOWTDI is something we encourage at the earliest stages
>    of learning, I think it would be beneficial for Perl veterans to work
>    closely to put together a bit of a "starter package", a list of modules we
>    would recommend to someone doing project of type X - e.g.:  Doing a web
>    app?  Start with Dancer.  Need your app to send  e-mails?  Try
>    Email::Sender.. etc.
>
> This is something the Perl community has been thinking about (I heard it
discussed first I think at YAPC Columbus) and is encapsulated in the phrase
TWTOWTDI BSCINABTE (TimToady Bicarbonate): There's more than one way to do
it, but sometimes consistency is not a bad thing either. I don't know that
there's a formalized thing though.  Perhaps we could brainstorm a way to
come up with the default toolkit and a way to keep it up to date.

And perhaps a way to stop people from killing one another when we say "use
this not this" (IE Dancer vs Mojolicious vs Catalyst) :)

There was a "Recommended Modules" on the old Perl5 Wiki but I don't know
that it's been kept up to date.

D
--
dave.s.doyle at gmail.com
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From Henry.Baragar at Instantiated.Ca  Thu Jan 24 12:05:44 2013
From: Henry.Baragar at Instantiated.Ca (Henry Baragar)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:05:44 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAAyyWE-cUu5WX1XUqUshAYoS2OcQ5qzdRcNxcKgS8gZ9G_vsAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CAAyyWE-cUu5WX1XUqUshAYoS2OcQ5qzdRcNxcKgS8gZ9G_vsAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51019418.4070606@Instantiated.Ca>

On 13-01-24 02:38 PM, Dave Doyle wrote:
> Sadly, I won't be there this month or next but I thought I'd mention:
>
> On 24 January 2013 14:31, J. Bobby Lopez <jbl at jbldata.com 
> <mailto:jbl at jbldata.com>> wrote:
>
>       * Although TMTOWTDI is something we encourage at the earliest
>         stages of learning, I think it would be beneficial for Perl
>         veterans to work closely to put together a bit of a "starter
>         package", a list of modules we would recommend to someone
>         doing project of type X - e.g.:  Doing a web app?  Start with
>         Dancer.  Need your app to send  e-mails?  Try Email::Sender.. etc.
>
> This is something the Perl community has been thinking about (I heard 
> it discussed first I think at YAPC Columbus) and is encapsulated in 
> the phrase TWTOWTDI BSCINABTE (TimToady Bicarbonate): There's more 
> than one way to do it, but sometimes consistency is not a bad thing 
> either. I don't know that there's a formalized thing though.  Perhaps 
> we could brainstorm a way to come up with the default toolkit and a 
> way to keep it up to date.
>

How much of what you are thinking about is already in chromatic's 
Modern::Perl 
<http://search.cpan.org/%7Echromatic/Modern-Perl-1.20121103/lib/Modern/Perl.pm> 
module?

Regards,
Henry

> And perhaps a way to stop people from killing one another when we say 
> "use this not this" (IE Dancer vs Mojolicious vs Catalyst) :)
>
> There was a "Recommended Modules" on the old Perl5 Wiki but I don't 
> know that it's been kept up to date.
>
> D
> --
> dave.s.doyle at gmail.com <mailto:dave.s.doyle at gmail.com>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm


-- 
Henry Baragar
Instantiated Software Inc.
http://www.instantiated.ca

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From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 12:08:43 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:08:43 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAAyyWE-cUu5WX1XUqUshAYoS2OcQ5qzdRcNxcKgS8gZ9G_vsAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CAAyyWE-cUu5WX1XUqUshAYoS2OcQ5qzdRcNxcKgS8gZ9G_vsAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C99821E2-FF19-4116-996A-CBC90004FD32@gmail.com>


On 2013-01-24, at 2:38 PM, Dave Doyle wrote:

> Sadly, I won't be there this month or next but I thought I'd mention:
> 
> On 24 January 2013 14:31, J. Bobby Lopez <jbl at jbldata.com> wrote:
> 	? Although TMTOWTDI is something we encourage at the earliest stages of learning, I think it would be beneficial for Perl veterans to work closely to put together a bit of a "starter package", a list of modules we would recommend to someone doing project of type X - e.g.:  Doing a web app?  Start with Dancer.  Need your app to send  e-mails?  Try Email::Sender.. etc.
> This is something the Perl community has been thinking about (I heard it discussed first I think at YAPC Columbus) and is encapsulated in the phrase TWTOWTDI BSCINABTE (TimToady Bicarbonate): There's more than one way to do it, but sometimes consistency is not a bad thing either. I don't know that there's a formalized thing though.  Perhaps we could brainstorm a way to come up with the default toolkit and a way to keep it up to date.
> 
> And perhaps a way to stop people from killing one another when we say "use this not this" (IE Dancer vs Mojolicious vs Catalyst) :)
> 
> There was a "Recommended Modules" on the old Perl5 Wiki but I don't know that it's been kept up to date.

How about Task::Kenso?

https://metacpan.org/module/Task::Kensho

Olaf

--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 12:14:38 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:14:38 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
Message-ID: <CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>


On 2013-01-24, at 2:31 PM, J. Bobby Lopez wrote:

> A few disjointed thoughts I've had recently (topics that I personally find interesting):
> 
> 	? Discussing the meeting topics in general, with focus on tackling modern problems and projects with Perl
> 		? i.e:  Concurrency problems; making DBIx::Class's auto-schema generator less error prone (w/r/t table names and relationships)
> 		? Moe is a great idea, but aside from fact that it will run on the JVM, and will have concurrency benefits because of Scala, what else would people be interested in using Moe for that may be difficult to do right now?

The way I understand it, the idea is really to build a language which doesn't have decades of cruft under the hood which is difficult for any one person to get an overview of.  So, remove the barriers to contribution which keep most of us from contributing to Perl.  There are lots of fun things you can also do, but I think the main argument really was that Perl5 as it stands, is a pain to maintain and maybe it doesn't have to be that way.


> 
> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!

I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.

> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.

Congratulations.  :) 

Olaf

--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From jbl at jbldata.com  Thu Jan 24 13:13:32 2013
From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:32 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>

On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>
>> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
>> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
>> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.

Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could 
be simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The 
desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC 
technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the 
public/private messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in 
verbally) and the ability to flag a comment as a question to the 
presenter/host, so that it doesn't get lost, for example, in a 
continuous discussion stream such as IRC.

Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd 
use it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic 
discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still 
having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.

Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also 
work well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) 
prevent people from going too far off on a tangent.

(Again, just brainstorming here.)

>
>> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.
> Congratulations.  :)
>
> Olaf

Thanks Olaf, we are super excited (and anxious).   We're already 40 
weeks, so we just want it out already :)





From faisal at akber.net  Thu Jan 24 13:53:46 2013
From: faisal at akber.net (Syed Faisal Akber)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:53:46 +0000
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
Message-ID: <1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>

I am willing to talk about Redis. 

Faisal
Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: "J. Bobby Lopez" <jbl at jbldata.com>
Sender: "toronto-pm" <toronto-pm-bounces+faisal=akber.net at pm.org>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:32 
To: Olaf Alders<olaf.alders at gmail.com>
Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting

On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>
>> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
>> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
>> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.

Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could 
be simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The 
desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC 
technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the 
public/private messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in 
verbally) and the ability to flag a comment as a question to the 
presenter/host, so that it doesn't get lost, for example, in a 
continuous discussion stream such as IRC.

Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd 
use it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic 
discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still 
having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.

Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also 
work well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) 
prevent people from going too far off on a tangent.

(Again, just brainstorming here.)

>
>> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.
> Congratulations.  :)
>
> Olaf

Thanks Olaf, we are super excited (and anxious).   We're already 40 
weeks, so we just want it out already :)




_______________________________________________
toronto-pm mailing list
toronto-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

From psema4 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 14:14:51 2013
From: psema4 at gmail.com (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:14:51 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
Message-ID: <CAEx-jsO8dio12tRwHdNEy8L_+swiwEoeiPAtR+NFHcioGhFh9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 4:13 PM, J. Bobby Lopez <jbl at jbldata.com> wrote:
> On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>>>         ? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to
>>> be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote
>>> users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter,
>>> email, irc)
>>>                 ? This may have been discussed several times in the past,
>>> but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in
>>> nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with
>>> the (social) times.
>>>                 ? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next
>>> few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new
>>> changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter
>>> integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
>>
>> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project
>> #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with
>> an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be
>> pretty interesting.
>
>
> Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could be
> simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The
> desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC
> technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the public/private
> messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in verbally) and the
> ability to flag a comment as a question to the presenter/host, so that it
> doesn't get lost, for example, in a continuous discussion stream such as
> IRC.
>
> Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd use
> it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic
> discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still
> having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.
>
> Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also work
> well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) prevent
> people from going too far off on a tangent.

Serious case of deja vu: I have a half-formed proposal for the Pirate
Party of Canada that intends to solve a number of these issues.  The
future is coming, it's just taking a while.  :-(

For now I'll just speak to the live presentation aspect...

WebRTC (Web Real-Time Communications, <http://www.webrtc.org/>) is a
browser-based P2P solution that can currently handle most of the
infrastructure required (video/audio/screencasting).  Unfortunately,
different browser implementations don't work well together just yet.

If remote participants could settle on one browser* initially, it
shouldn't take long (a couple weeks, maybe a month) to put something
together.  As other browsers improve support, only minimal code
changes (if any) would be required to support them.

For a quick summary & crash course, see
<http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/webrtc/basics/>.

Best,
- Scott

* AFAIK, Google's Chrome has the best WebRTC support to-date.

PS - The Pirate Party of Canada used to use a custom IRC bot for
managing online meetings, handling things like giving the floor to a
speaker and taking votes.  It had a number of issues (having been
written in PHP was one IMO) and it's use was discontinued.  If anyone
wants the source though, it can be found at
<https://github.com/piratepartyca/Stenobot>

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

  Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
  http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

  Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
  http://www.pirateparty.ca/

From mike at stok.ca  Thu Jan 24 14:38:29 2013
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:38:29 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>

Hi Faisal,

How much time do you estimate the talk on Redis might be, I'd be interested in hearing it!

Mike

On 2013-01-24, at 4:53 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:

> I am willing to talk about Redis. 
> 
> Faisal
> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "J. Bobby Lopez" <jbl at jbldata.com>
> Sender: "toronto-pm" <toronto-pm-bounces+faisal=akber.net at pm.org>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:32 
> To: Olaf Alders<olaf.alders at gmail.com>
> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
> 
> On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>> 
>>> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
>>> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
>>> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
>> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.
> 
> Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could 
> be simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The 
> desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC 
> technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the 
> public/private messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in 
> verbally) and the ability to flag a comment as a question to the 
> presenter/host, so that it doesn't get lost, for example, in a 
> continuous discussion stream such as IRC.
> 
> Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd 
> use it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic 
> discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still 
> having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.
> 
> Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also 
> work well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) 
> prevent people from going too far off on a tangent.
> 
> (Again, just brainstorming here.)
> 
>> 
>>> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.
>> Congratulations.  :)
>> 
>> Olaf
> 
> Thanks Olaf, we are super excited (and anxious).   We're already 40 
> weeks, so we just want it out already :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From faisal at akber.net  Thu Jan 24 14:46:36 2013
From: faisal at akber.net (Syed Faisal Akber)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 22:46:36 +0000
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>

I'm thinking of a short introduction to it so maybe 15 to 20 minutes at most.  

I will try to have an example and do some demos. 

Faisal
Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:38:29 
To: <faisal at akber.net>
Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting

Hi Faisal,

How much time do you estimate the talk on Redis might be, I'd be interested in hearing it!

Mike

On 2013-01-24, at 4:53 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:

> I am willing to talk about Redis. 
> 
> Faisal
> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "J. Bobby Lopez" <jbl at jbldata.com>
> Sender: "toronto-pm" <toronto-pm-bounces+faisal=akber.net at pm.org>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:32 
> To: Olaf Alders<olaf.alders at gmail.com>
> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
> 
> On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>> 
>>> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
>>> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
>>> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
>> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.
> 
> Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could 
> be simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The 
> desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC 
> technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the 
> public/private messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in 
> verbally) and the ability to flag a comment as a question to the 
> presenter/host, so that it doesn't get lost, for example, in a 
> continuous discussion stream such as IRC.
> 
> Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd 
> use it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic 
> discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still 
> having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.
> 
> Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also 
> work well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) 
> prevent people from going too far off on a tangent.
> 
> (Again, just brainstorming here.)
> 
>> 
>>> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.
>> Congratulations.  :)
>> 
>> Olaf
> 
> Thanks Olaf, we are super excited (and anxious).   We're already 40 
> weeks, so we just want it out already :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From mike at stok.ca  Thu Jan 24 15:05:26 2013
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:05:26 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
Message-ID: <97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>

So by my estimates we have these which seem to be "cooked":

Mike Stok: 2 books (one technical, the other not)
Alan Rocker: The Sciences of the Artificial
Faisal: Redis

Then some more topics which we can maybe discuss or use at later meetings: 

Test:: modules
Moe
Concurrency problems
DBIx::Class auto schema generation
TIMTOWTDI, recommended modules, 
Perldroid

Making meetings more accessible (could discuss this month)

Any more?

Mike


On 2013-01-24, at 5:46 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:

> I'm thinking of a short introduction to it so maybe 15 to 20 minutes at most.  
> 
> I will try to have an example and do some demos. 
> 
> Faisal
> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:38:29 
> To: <faisal at akber.net>
> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
> 
> Hi Faisal,
> 
> How much time do you estimate the talk on Redis might be, I'd be interested in hearing it!
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 2013-01-24, at 4:53 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:
> 
>> I am willing to talk about Redis. 
>> 
>> Faisal
>> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "J. Bobby Lopez" <jbl at jbldata.com>
>> Sender: "toronto-pm" <toronto-pm-bounces+faisal=akber.net at pm.org>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:32 
>> To: Olaf Alders<olaf.alders at gmail.com>
>> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
>> 
>> On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
>>>> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
>>>> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
>>> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.
>> 
>> Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could 
>> be simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The 
>> desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC 
>> technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the 
>> public/private messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in 
>> verbally) and the ability to flag a comment as a question to the 
>> presenter/host, so that it doesn't get lost, for example, in a 
>> continuous discussion stream such as IRC.
>> 
>> Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd 
>> use it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic 
>> discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still 
>> having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.
>> 
>> Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also 
>> work well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) 
>> prevent people from going too far off on a tangent.
>> 
>> (Again, just brainstorming here.)
>> 
>>> 
>>>> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.
>>> Congratulations.  :)
>>> 
>>> Olaf
>> 
>> Thanks Olaf, we are super excited (and anxious).   We're already 40 
>> weeks, so we just want it out already :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> toronto-pm mailing list
>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>> _______________________________________________
>> toronto-pm mailing list
>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
> 
> -- 
> 
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
> 
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From shlomif at shlomifish.org  Thu Jan 24 15:18:51 2013
From: shlomif at shlomifish.org (Shlomi Fish)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 01:18:51 +0200
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <C99821E2-FF19-4116-996A-CBC90004FD32@gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CAAyyWE-cUu5WX1XUqUshAYoS2OcQ5qzdRcNxcKgS8gZ9G_vsAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C99821E2-FF19-4116-996A-CBC90004FD32@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130125011851.2e98e260@telaviv1.shlomifish.org>

Hi all,

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:08:43 -0500
Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> On 2013-01-24, at 2:38 PM, Dave Doyle wrote:
> 
> > Sadly, I won't be there this month or next but I thought I'd mention:
> > 
> > On 24 January 2013 14:31, J. Bobby Lopez <jbl at jbldata.com> wrote:
> > 	? Although TMTOWTDI is something we encourage at the earliest
> > stages of learning, I think it would be beneficial for Perl veterans to
> > work closely to put together a bit of a "starter package", a list of
> > modules we would recommend to someone doing project of type X - e.g.:
> > Doing a web app?  Start with Dancer.  Need your app to send  e-mails?  Try
> > Email::Sender.. etc. This is something the Perl community has been thinking
> > about (I heard it discussed first I think at YAPC Columbus) and is
> > encapsulated in the phrase TWTOWTDI BSCINABTE (TimToady Bicarbonate):
> > There's more than one way to do it, but sometimes consistency is not a bad
> > thing either. I don't know that there's a formalized thing though.  Perhaps
> > we could brainstorm a way to come up with the default toolkit and a way to
> > keep it up to date.
> > 
> > And perhaps a way to stop people from killing one another when we say "use
> > this not this" (IE Dancer vs Mojolicious vs Catalyst) :)
> > 
> > There was a "Recommended Modules" on the old Perl5 Wiki but I don't know
> > that it's been kept up to date.
> 
> How about Task::Kenso?
> 
> https://metacpan.org/module/Task::Kensho
> 

Task::Kensho is nice. However, I should note that once (when the rethinking-cpan
effort was started by Andy Lester, and somewhat before the failed CPANHQ
project started, which was followed by the much more fruitful and
successful MetaCPAN), and we started thinking about how to better find
something quickly on CPAN (or conclude that something up-to-date does not
exist), I contemplated creating something like of an ?expert system? for CPAN,
that will ask questions and do recommendations. Something like:

* Hi, I'm the MetaCPAN's expert system. What do you want to do?

? User Answer's: I want to process XML.

* Do you want to:

1. Emit XML?

2. Translate XML into a different format.

3. Parse XML?

? User Answer's: 1. Emit XML.

* We recommend: XML-Writer. 

-----

But there are some issues with implementation, like how to allow users to
easily contribute (are GitHub pull requests enough), how to make sure it is
kept out-of-date, and possibly allow to CPAN authors and MetaCPAN visitors to
specify meta-data to populate it and keep it up-to-date. This may turn out like
the whole semantic desktop thing, which would have worked great, except that
people are not keen on adding meta-data to all the resources on their private
system, and normally prefer just doing filename searches or full text searches.

Given that it seems most CPAN authors did not bother adding tags/keywords to
their distribution's META.yml , I'm not sure how well a CPAN expert system can
be kept up-to-date and functional.

Naturally, this is kinda a "first-world problem" which is indicative that CPAN
has been successful and well, proven to be comprehensive, and now we are trying
to find the hidden gems among the lot of "noise". Not that I think that
having a "better" quality control over what gets uploaded to CPAN is a good
idea - see
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=perl-petdance-thousand-flowers .

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish
 
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
Chuck Norris/etc. Facts - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/

Had I not been already insane, I would have long ago driven myself mad.
    ? The Enemy and how I Helped to Fight It

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es  Thu Jan 24 15:21:39 2013
From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.es (Abram Hindle)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:21:39 -0700
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	(sfid-20130124_160702_429897_D257CC06)
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	(sfid-20130124_160702_429897_D257CC06)
Message-ID: <5101C203.90803@softwareprocess.es>

At Edmonton Ruby Users Group (heresy I know) we use google hangout to
broadcast / share our talk and then google hangout allows publishing to
youtube so it is recorded. This can be done with laptops with webcams
and presenters can share their screens too for slides.

If you want to see an example just checkout this exceptionally long
youtube link: http://ur1.ca/clxw1

No special equipment was needed other than a laptop.

While I do not like the google-hangout as it is restrictive proprietary
software, it does allow for a lot of people to participate and google
does provide infrastructure for it.

abram

On 13-01-24 04:05 PM, Mike Stok wrote:
> So by my estimates we have these which seem to be "cooked":
>
> Mike Stok: 2 books (one technical, the other not)
> Alan Rocker: The Sciences of the Artificial
> Faisal: Redis
>
> Then some more topics which we can maybe discuss or use at later meetings: 
>
> Test:: modules
> Moe
> Concurrency problems
> DBIx::Class auto schema generation
> TIMTOWTDI, recommended modules, 
> Perldroid
>
> Making meetings more accessible (could discuss this month)
>
> Any more?
>
> Mike
>
>
> On 2013-01-24, at 5:46 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of a short introduction to it so maybe 15 to 20 minutes at most.  
>>
>> I will try to have an example and do some demos. 
>>
>> Faisal
>> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:38:29 
>> To: <faisal at akber.net>
>> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
>>
>> Hi Faisal,
>>
>> How much time do you estimate the talk on Redis might be, I'd be interested in hearing it!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On 2013-01-24, at 4:53 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I am willing to talk about Redis. 
>>>
>>> Faisal
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "J. Bobby Lopez" <jbl at jbldata.com>
>>> Sender: "toronto-pm" <toronto-pm-bounces+faisal=akber.net at pm.org>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:32 
>>> To: Olaf Alders<olaf.alders at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
>>>
>>> On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>>>>> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
>>>>> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
>>>>> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
>>>> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.
>>> Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could 
>>> be simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The 
>>> desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC 
>>> technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the 
>>> public/private messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in 
>>> verbally) and the ability to flag a comment as a question to the 
>>> presenter/host, so that it doesn't get lost, for example, in a 
>>> continuous discussion stream such as IRC.
>>>
>>> Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd 
>>> use it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic 
>>> discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still 
>>> having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.
>>>
>>> Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also 
>>> work well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) 
>>> prevent people from going too far off on a tangent.
>>>
>>> (Again, just brainstorming here.)
>>>
>>>>> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.
>>>> Congratulations.  :)
>>>>
>>>> Olaf
>>> Thanks Olaf, we are super excited (and anxious).   We're already 40 
>>> weeks, so we just want it out already :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> toronto-pm mailing list
>>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> toronto-pm mailing list
>>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>> -- 
>>
>> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
>> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
>>
>> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>>
>>
>>
>>


From mike at stok.ca  Thu Jan 24 15:25:43 2013
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:25:43 -0500
Subject: [tpm] This month's meeting
In-Reply-To: <97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <63785ADC-22E7-495C-8C72-65700DE0FEC8@stok.ca>

Scott Elcomb has a couple of book reviews and Perl related anecdote too, at about 5 minutes a piece.

Mike

On 2013-01-24, at 6:05 PM, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:

> So by my estimates we have these which seem to be "cooked":
> 
> Mike Stok: 2 books (one technical, the other not)
> Alan Rocker: The Sciences of the Artificial
> Faisal: Redis
> 
> Then some more topics which we can maybe discuss or use at later meetings: 
> 
> Test:: modules
> Moe
> Concurrency problems
> DBIx::Class auto schema generation
> TIMTOWTDI, recommended modules, 
> Perldroid
> 
> Making meetings more accessible (could discuss this month)
> 
> Any more?
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On 2013-01-24, at 5:46 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:
> 
>> I'm thinking of a short introduction to it so maybe 15 to 20 minutes at most.  
>> 
>> I will try to have an example and do some demos. 
>> 
>> Faisal
>> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:38:29 
>> To: <faisal at akber.net>
>> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
>> 
>> Hi Faisal,
>> 
>> How much time do you estimate the talk on Redis might be, I'd be interested in hearing it!
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> On 2013-01-24, at 4:53 PM, "Syed Faisal Akber" <faisal at akber.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am willing to talk about Redis. 
>>> 
>>> Faisal
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "J. Bobby Lopez" <jbl at jbldata.com>
>>> Sender: "toronto-pm" <toronto-pm-bounces+faisal=akber.net at pm.org>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:32 
>>> To: Olaf Alders<olaf.alders at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [tpm] This month's meeting
>>> 
>>> On 13-01-24 03:14 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 	? Making meetings more accessible to those who may not be able to be there physically.  Conf-call type setup with audio/video, and remote users providing input/feedback via some kind of messaging platform (twitter, email, irc)
>>>>> 		? This may have been discussed several times in the past, but with the emerging popularity of telecommute, and our interest in nurturing new (often younger) developers, we may want to do more to get with the (social) times.
>>>>> 		? Even if we can't come up with a solution for the next few meetings, a discussion still may be useful with an aim to have some new changes/improvements to how meetings are held going forward.  Tighter integration with the new TPM site is also be a possibility!
>>>> I don't know what can be done here.  At the very least, we could project #tpm via the projector and let people participate remotely.  Combined with an audio feed (like a Skype conference call), that could potentially be pretty interesting.
>>> 
>>> Sounds like an interesting project.  The video feed of the group could 
>>> be simple enough with a webcam + VLC (sound may be a challenge).  The 
>>> desktop/projector sharing could be done via some kind of Webex or VNC 
>>> technology.  I like the way webex does conferencing, with the 
>>> public/private messages, the ability to raise your hand (to chime in 
>>> verbally) and the ability to flag a comment as a question to the 
>>> presenter/host, so that it doesn't get lost, for example, in a 
>>> continuous discussion stream such as IRC.
>>> 
>>> Some of those features may not get much use in general, but I know I'd 
>>> use it.  I like the thought of filtering out general banter from topic 
>>> discussions, so that the discussion can flow uninterrupted, while still 
>>> having an opportunity to participate in the general banter.
>>> 
>>> Twitter-style (140 character limit messages) communication could also 
>>> work well, as it would allow questions/comments to be focused, and (IMO) 
>>> prevent people from going too far off on a tangent.
>>> 
>>> (Again, just brainstorming here.)
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Don't know if I'll be out this month, as my wife and I have a baby on the way (any day now... feel like I've been saying that for weeks), but just figured I'd help to further the discussion.
>>>> Congratulations.  :)
>>>> 
>>>> Olaf
>>> 
>>> Thanks Olaf, we are super excited (and anxious).   We're already 40 
>>> weeks, so we just want it out already :)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> toronto-pm mailing list
>>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> toronto-pm mailing list
>>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
>> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
>> 
>> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
> 
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From mike at stok.ca  Thu Jan 24 16:17:17 2013
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:17:17 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl in the Economist
Message-ID: <ACAB2817-24B6-43E0-92AE-8D1A686ACF09@stok.ca>

In this week's Economist's obituary for Aaron Swartz http://www.economist.com/news/obituary/21569674-aaron-swartz-computer-programmer-and-activist-committed-suicide-january-11th-aged-26-aaron :

> In 2009 he wormed his way into a free-access trial of the PACER system, which contains all electronic federal court records, in certain public libraries; he downloaded 19.9m pages of it, then uploaded them to the cloud, before anyone could stop him. Again, it was easy: using a small, elegant language called perl, the documents fell into his hands.

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From rdice at pobox.com  Thu Jan 24 16:52:49 2013
From: rdice at pobox.com (Richard Dice)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:52:49 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl in the Economist
In-Reply-To: <ACAB2817-24B6-43E0-92AE-8D1A686ACF09@stok.ca>
References: <ACAB2817-24B6-43E0-92AE-8D1A686ACF09@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPPqpsoS_Q5Qw5=kOGNTNtRgN42HzD08PTLg-6idzvUxeP+iwg@mail.gmail.com>

That's the first time I've heard Perl described as small and elegant.

I'd go with "practical", myself.

Cheers...



On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:

> In this week's Economist's obituary for Aaron Swartz
> http://www.economist.com/news/obituary/21569674-aaron-swartz-computer-programmer-and-activist-committed-suicide-january-11th-aged-26-aaron:
>
> In 2009 he wormed his way into a free-access trial of the PACER system,
> which contains all electronic federal court records, in certain public
> libraries; he downloaded 19.9m pages of it, then uploaded them to the
> cloud, before anyone could stop him. Again, it was easy: using a small,
> elegant language called perl, the documents fell into his hands.
>
>
> --
>
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
>
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
>
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From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 16:57:06 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:57:06 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl in the Economist
In-Reply-To: <CAPPqpsoS_Q5Qw5=kOGNTNtRgN42HzD08PTLg-6idzvUxeP+iwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ACAB2817-24B6-43E0-92AE-8D1A686ACF09@stok.ca>
	<CAPPqpsoS_Q5Qw5=kOGNTNtRgN42HzD08PTLg-6idzvUxeP+iwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5CD5897-0DEF-4E30-AAAA-ABFDD59E4BE7@gmail.com>


On 2013-01-24, at 7:52 PM, Richard Dice wrote:

> That's the first time I've heard Perl described as small and elegant.
> 
> I'd go with "practical", myself.

Maybe his script was small and elegant.  Under the hood, I don't think Perl is either of those things.  :)

Olaf


--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From jbl at jbldata.com  Thu Jan 24 17:25:07 2013
From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:25:07 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl in the Economist
In-Reply-To: <B5CD5897-0DEF-4E30-AAAA-ABFDD59E4BE7@gmail.com>
References: <ACAB2817-24B6-43E0-92AE-8D1A686ACF09@stok.ca>
	<CAPPqpsoS_Q5Qw5=kOGNTNtRgN42HzD08PTLg-6idzvUxeP+iwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<B5CD5897-0DEF-4E30-AAAA-ABFDD59E4BE7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5101DEF3.5020006@jbldata.com>

On 13-01-24 07:57 PM, Olaf Alders wrote:
> On 2013-01-24, at 7:52 PM, Richard Dice wrote:
>
>> That's the first time I've heard Perl described as small and elegant.
>>
>> I'd go with "practical", myself.
> Maybe his script was small and elegant.  Under the hood, I don't think Perl is either of those things.  :)
>
> Olaf
>
>

He did say "language".  "badass" may be a more suitable substitute for 
"small, elegant" in this context, however.

reference: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=badass

From arocker at Vex.Net  Fri Jan 25 05:08:54 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:08:54 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Perl in the Economist
In-Reply-To: <ACAB2817-24B6-43E0-92AE-8D1A686ACF09@stok.ca>
References: <ACAB2817-24B6-43E0-92AE-8D1A686ACF09@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <ed6179a9a7ee47766e69e727441e7d42.squirrel@mail.vex.net>



For once, the "Dismal Scientist" gets something almost right:
>> Again, it was easy: using a small, elegant language called perl,

I'm not sure whether this is good ("all publicity is good") or bad,
(context) for Perl.

I wonder why he used Python in his first attempt? keepgrabbing.py is
obviously not Perl, unless he was trying some peculiar obfuscation.





From jbl at jbldata.com  Fri Jan 25 05:12:52 2013
From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:12:52 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Scala, Patterns, and The Perl Effect
Message-ID: <510284D4.1010101@jbldata.com>

Interesting (and somewhat dated) article about Scala, with some 
comparisons to Perl regarding TMTOWTDI:

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=338796

> Taking a step back, I have a worry about Scala, which is what I'll 
> call "The Perl Effect." Perl prided itself on allowing "more than one 
> way to do it." As a result, you could see many different 
> implementations of the same code, often remarkably different.


If Scala truly does give developers the expressiveness and and power of 
Perl, I don't see how the "community" can prevent "clever" coding 
practices.  And with that, I don't see how imposing restrictions on such 
cleverness could lead to better adoption by "mainstream" developers.   
The article seems to have some gaps in reasoning (IMO), but it still 
prompts some interesting conversation.




From legrady at gmail.com  Sat Jan 26 18:05:14 2013
From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:05:14 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Log4Perl
Message-ID: <CAG0DXd6e+nh0czON9qyJTp+RABLvawWQEAfpgtGsLFFhB=pWAw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe I can get a quick answer here, or maybe we can discuss it next week.

One suposed advantage of Log4Perl is that you can dynamically alter the
debug level and get detailed logs when an error has been seen, without
changing the code or (significantly) the environment. Does anyone actually
use this. At Morgan Stanley it doesn't work that way; it would require a
major change which would require permission and would affect a large number
of programs, not just one.

Who was it who said, "Logging modules are so wonderful, every team writes
their own"?


Tom
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From talexb at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 09:38:42 2013
From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:38:42 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Log4Perl
In-Reply-To: <CAG0DXd6e+nh0czON9qyJTp+RABLvawWQEAfpgtGsLFFhB=pWAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG0DXd6e+nh0czON9qyJTp+RABLvawWQEAfpgtGsLFFhB=pWAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANgc-awBgcCzOj0A2rYTdE4JeCxqkCP5nWoC-FRqb5WeyBF+kg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tom,

It is possible to change the Log4perl logging level without making source
code changes -- you just adjust a value in the config file. Of course, it
makes sense that making even that change on a Production machine would
require permission. Changing the logging level would have a non-zero impact
on the performance of the application, as well as the rate at which it
consumed disk space (assuming you're logging to a disk file -- there are
lots of other ways that events can be logged, of course).

Yes, everyone *wants* to write their own logging system -- of course, the
reasoning is that a) existing solutions don't meet their needs, b) anyway
they don't have time to learn someone elses's system, c) they won't be able
to get permission to install someone else's code and d) it's just going to
be something simple. These are all political reasons, and not technical
reasons, and probably flow from a) programmer laziness, b) programmer
hubris and c) edicts from PHBs who last wrote software when it was
assembler for IBM mainframes ("in my day ..").

As always, there are many good reasons to not make changes to a Production
system on the fly. You'll have to present a business case or risk
management assessment for your request, explaining why it's not possible to
get the information any other way. It's even possible you may figure out a
way while you're writing that up.

Cheers,

Alex

On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Tom Legrady <legrady at gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe I can get a quick answer here, or maybe we can discuss it next week.
>
> One suposed advantage of Log4Perl is that you can dynamically alter the
> debug level and get detailed logs when an error has been seen, without
> changing the code or (significantly) the environment. Does anyone actually
> use this. At Morgan Stanley it doesn't work that way; it would require a
> major change which would require permission and would affect a large number
> of programs, not just one.
>
> Who was it who said, "Logging modules are so wonderful, every team writes
> their own"?
>
>
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
>
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From stuart at morungos.com  Sun Jan 27 11:50:52 2013
From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:50:52 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Log4Perl
In-Reply-To: <CANgc-awBgcCzOj0A2rYTdE4JeCxqkCP5nWoC-FRqb5WeyBF+kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG0DXd6e+nh0czON9qyJTp+RABLvawWQEAfpgtGsLFFhB=pWAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANgc-awBgcCzOj0A2rYTdE4JeCxqkCP5nWoC-FRqb5WeyBF+kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <790C7A2F-6028-49D8-9384-6A2D969914D9@morungos.com>

Looking at its source code, log4perl is also supposed to use environment variable substitution in configuration property files. So, ${MYAPP_LEVEL} should be substituted if MYAPP_LEVEL is set in the process environment. That does require it always to be defined to some substitutable value, but it's another way of getting configuration out of the application entirely. I used to do this for most web apps (and wrote a similar config mod for Catalyst) because the environment variables could usually be managed from the web container configuration separately from the web app, which avoided any change to production files, even configuration ones. I didn't have to worry about business cases so much, but I myself felt reassured by not touching code.

All the best
Stuart

On 2013-01-27, at 12:38 PM, Alex Beamish <talexb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
> It is possible to change the Log4perl logging level without making source code changes -- you just adjust a value in the config file. Of course, it makes sense that making even that change on a Production machine would require permission. Changing the logging level would have a non-zero impact on the performance of the application, as well as the rate at which it consumed disk space (assuming you're logging to a disk file -- there are lots of other ways that events can be logged, of course).
> 
> Yes, everyone *wants* to write their own logging system -- of course, the reasoning is that a) existing solutions don't meet their needs, b) anyway they don't have time to learn someone elses's system, c) they won't be able to get permission to install someone else's code and d) it's just going to be something simple. These are all political reasons, and not technical reasons, and probably flow from a) programmer laziness, b) programmer hubris and c) edicts from PHBs who last wrote software when it was assembler for IBM mainframes ("in my day ..").
> 
> As always, there are many good reasons to not make changes to a Production system on the fly. You'll have to present a business case or risk management assessment for your request, explaining why it's not possible to get the information any other way. It's even possible you may figure out a way while you're writing that up.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Alex
> 
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Tom Legrady <legrady at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe I can get a quick answer here, or maybe we can discuss it next week.
> 
> One suposed advantage of Log4Perl is that you can dynamically alter the debug level and get detailed logs when an error has been seen, without changing the code or (significantly) the environment. Does anyone actually use this. At Morgan Stanley it doesn't work that way; it would require a major change which would require permission and would affect a large number of programs, not just one.
> 
> Who was it who said, "Logging modules are so wonderful, every team writes their own"?
> 
> 
> Tom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

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From uri at stemsystems.com  Sun Jan 27 15:50:50 2013
From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:50:50 -0500
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>

hi all,

i have a question about canadians working telecommute in the states. i 
know about the tn1 visa which is under NAFTA and allows for 
professionals to work in the states. i placed someone a few years ago 
who easily got one. now i have some telecommute leads. work is remote 
but some onsite visits may be involved (a week or two a year). do you 
need a visa for these type of jobs? can you do the onsite with just a 
visitor whatever? i am sure plenty of canadian business people travel 
here without a visa for short trips. any thoughts, ideas are welcome.

thanx,

uri

ps. yes, i have several remote leads that are ok for canadians. email me 
at uri AT perlhunter.com with your resume in pdf and samples of your 
perl code. both clients only want top people for these remote openings.

From faisal at akber.net  Sun Jan 27 16:49:53 2013
From: faisal at akber.net (Syed Faisal Akber)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:49:53 +0000
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	<5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
Message-ID: <1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>

It depends what you call work in the USA. If it is meetings, then you do not need a special Visa to enter the US. 

However, almost everything else constitutes work and requires a Visa.  I hear that an H1 is easier to get than a TN1.  Either way, a proper Visa is required. 

Most people who travel occasionally and have to do work, say that they're going for meetings anyways instead of getting a Visa.  If the customs officer beleives you, you're in. 

I would suggest talking to an immigration lawyer to be certain of what you can and cannot do. 

Faisal
Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com>
Sender: "toronto-pm" <toronto-pm-bounces+faisal=akber.net at pm.org>Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:50:50 
To: <toronto-pm at pm.org>
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?

hi all,

i have a question about canadians working telecommute in the states. i 
know about the tn1 visa which is under NAFTA and allows for 
professionals to work in the states. i placed someone a few years ago 
who easily got one. now i have some telecommute leads. work is remote 
but some onsite visits may be involved (a week or two a year). do you 
need a visa for these type of jobs? can you do the onsite with just a 
visitor whatever? i am sure plenty of canadian business people travel 
here without a visa for short trips. any thoughts, ideas are welcome.

thanx,

uri

ps. yes, i have several remote leads that are ok for canadians. email me 
at uri AT perlhunter.com with your resume in pdf and samples of your 
perl code. both clients only want top people for these remote openings.
_______________________________________________
toronto-pm mailing list
toronto-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 06:37:08 2013
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:37:08 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Log4Perl
In-Reply-To: <CANgc-awBgcCzOj0A2rYTdE4JeCxqkCP5nWoC-FRqb5WeyBF+kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG0DXd6e+nh0czON9qyJTp+RABLvawWQEAfpgtGsLFFhB=pWAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANgc-awBgcCzOj0A2rYTdE4JeCxqkCP5nWoC-FRqb5WeyBF+kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGuV3hOg52TFZ6-=-gewcbyW9WHBXqErYURFUtQhTAwsx=dFKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Alex Beamish <talexb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> It is possible to change the Log4perl logging level without making source
> code changes -- you just adjust a value in the config file.
>

What I am trying to get our designers to add, is not just the ability to
change logging levels
without making source code changes, but to be able to change them without a
restart.

In our 'big' network, I'm trying to get people to standardize on SNMP, and
it allows viewing
_and_ changing things dynamically, (if the apps/devices support it).  In
production, nobody
wants to restart anything (unless its Windows in which case (sadly) the
standard answer to
anything is 'reboot'.), so the ability to alter the logging level without
restarting is very
beneficial.

Of course, it makes sense that making even that change on a Production
> machine would require permission. Changing the logging level would have a
> non-zero impact on the performance of the application, as well as the rate
> at which it consumed disk space (assuming you're logging to a disk file --
> there are lots of other ways that events can be logged, of course).
>

My anecdote is a system (I didn't write it) that when they turned on their
logging, it brought
the system to its knees because it was soo busy logging stuff across the
network to disks
that the system no longer had enough time left, nor network bandwidth, nor
disk bandwidth
to actually accomplish what it was trying to debug log.

... They quickly turned the logging off.

The moral of the story was... since they refused to build in the proper
run-time diagnostics
they had to resort to the 'detailed programmers debugging log file'...
which killed them
instead of helping them.  They should have done the job right... the first
time.


> Yes, everyone *wants* to write their own logging system -- of course, the
> reasoning is that a) existing solutions don't meet their needs, b) anyway
> they don't have time to learn someone elses's system, c) they won't be able
> to get permission to install someone else's code and d) it's just going to
> be something simple. These are all political reasons, and not technical
> reasons, and probably flow from a) programmer laziness, b) programmer
> hubris and c) edicts from PHBs who last wrote software when it was
> assembler for IBM mainframes ("in my day ..").
>

The usual rebuttal I get is: "its faster to invent and write my own 'xxx'
than it is to
learn they other guy's API, and get it integrated and working".
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From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 15:04:43 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:04:43 -0500
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	<5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
	<1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
Message-ID: <95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>


On 2013-01-27, at 7:49 PM, Syed Faisal Akber wrote:

> It depends what you call work in the USA. If it is meetings, then you do not need a special Visa to enter the US. 
> 
> However, almost everything else constitutes work and requires a Visa.  I hear that an H1 is easier to get than a TN1.  Either way, a proper Visa is required. 
> 
> Most people who travel occasionally and have to do work, say that they're going for meetings anyways instead of getting a Visa.  If the customs officer beleives you, you're in. 
> 
> I would suggest talking to an immigration lawyer to be certain of what you can and cannot do. '

I work via telecommute for an American company.  I had to fly down for some meetings in September and the customs official gave me an extremely hard time because I didn't have any paperwork from HR stating exactly what I would be doing while in the US.  Eventually he let me continue on, but for a while it felt like he was going to send me back home.  So, while it worked for me to travel without the paperwork, it was a really unpleasant experience.

Olaf
--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From psema4 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 08:33:48 2013
From: psema4 at gmail.com (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:33:48 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Tonight's meeting
Message-ID: <CAEx-jsNOfVrTpgX_X_xRtcZ4LkK12JUFZ4jm=fBwQJpVzJmY6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Unfortunately I'm not feeling very well and am not going to be able to
make tonight's meeting.  I'll save my bits for the next lightning
talks session though, or for filler material at some future meeting.

I look forward to hearing more on how meetings might be shared via the website.

Best regards,
- Scott

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

  Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
  http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

  Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
  http://www.pirateparty.ca/

From mike_sivec at yahoo.ca  Thu Jan 31 11:52:44 2013
From: mike_sivec at yahoo.ca (Sivec Mike)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:52:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	<5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
	<1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1359661964.8316.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

being an attendee for?departmental/team meetings and RECEIVING training seem to be acceptable reasons.


?

________________________________
From: Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com>
To: faisal at akber.net 
Cc: toronto-pm at pm.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:04:43 PM
Subject: Re: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?


On 2013-01-27, at 7:49 PM, Syed Faisal Akber wrote:

> It depends what you call work in the USA. If it is meetings, then you do not need a special Visa to enter the US. 
> 
> However, almost everything else constitutes work and requires a Visa.? I hear that an H1 is easier to get than a TN1.? Either way, a proper Visa is required. 
> 
> Most people who travel occasionally and have to do work, say that they're going for meetings anyways instead of getting a Visa.? If the customs officer beleives you, you're in. 
> 
> I would suggest talking to an immigration lawyer to be certain of what you can and cannot do. '

I work via telecommute for an American company.? I had to fly down for some meetings in September and the customs official gave me an extremely hard time because I didn't have any paperwork from HR stating exactly what I would be doing while in the US.? Eventually he let me continue on, but for a while it felt like he was going to send me back home.? So, while it worked for me to travel without the paperwork, it was a really unpleasant experience.

Olaf
--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com/
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)

_______________________________________________
toronto-pm mailing list
toronto-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
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From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 12:05:10 2013
From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:05:10 -0500
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	<5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
	<1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAyyWE8mrKqMnPM_2z4SVpU_hNYDHrFFDBWp1C18yZ5VAWc=YA@mail.gmail.com>

I also work via telecommute for an American company.  When I travel down,
it's just for meetings and soon some training, and you're given a "B1" Visa
on the spot.  I carry a letter from the Director of my division for every
trip stating my arrival/departure time and the purpose of my visit.  I'd
been warned that I'm not to do any actual work other than the meetings
while there. :)

I've been held up a border security once, but that was because of my name
not my work.

--
dave.s.doyle at gmail.com


On 30 January 2013 18:04, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 2013-01-27, at 7:49 PM, Syed Faisal Akber wrote:
>
> > It depends what you call work in the USA. If it is meetings, then you do
> not need a special Visa to enter the US.
> >
> > However, almost everything else constitutes work and requires a Visa.  I
> hear that an H1 is easier to get than a TN1.  Either way, a proper Visa is
> required.
> >
> > Most people who travel occasionally and have to do work, say that
> they're going for meetings anyways instead of getting a Visa.  If the
> customs officer beleives you, you're in.
> >
> > I would suggest talking to an immigration lawyer to be certain of what
> you can and cannot do. '
>
> I work via telecommute for an American company.  I had to fly down for
> some meetings in September and the customs official gave me an extremely
> hard time because I didn't have any paperwork from HR stating exactly what
> I would be doing while in the US.  Eventually he let me continue on, but
> for a while it felt like he was going to send me back home.  So, while it
> worked for me to travel without the paperwork, it was a really unpleasant
> experience.
>
> Olaf
> --
> Olaf Alders
> olaf.alders at gmail.com
>
> http://www.wundercounter.com
> http://twitter.com/wundercounter
>
> 866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
> 416 944 8306 (direct)
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
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From olaf.alders at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 12:07:10 2013
From: olaf.alders at gmail.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:07:10 -0500
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <CAAyyWE8mrKqMnPM_2z4SVpU_hNYDHrFFDBWp1C18yZ5VAWc=YA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	<5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
	<1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>
	<CAAyyWE8mrKqMnPM_2z4SVpU_hNYDHrFFDBWp1C18yZ5VAWc=YA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78B279CD-9E08-4C83-9F7F-5A81B4CE9B86@gmail.com>


On 2013-01-31, at 3:05 PM, Dave Doyle wrote:

> I also work via telecommute for an American company.  When I travel down, it's just for meetings and soon some training, and you're given a "B1" Visa on the spot.  I carry a letter from the Director of my division for every trip stating my arrival/departure time and the purpose of my visit.  I'd been warned that I'm not to do any actual work other than the meetings while there. :)
> 
> I've been held up a border security once, but that was because of my name not my work.'''

There's a Dave Doyle on the "No Fly List"?

Olaf
--
Olaf Alders
olaf.alders at gmail.com

http://www.wundercounter.com
http://twitter.com/wundercounter

866 503 2204 (Toll free - North America)
416 944 8306 (direct)


From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 12:34:44 2013
From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:34:44 -0500
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <78B279CD-9E08-4C83-9F7F-5A81B4CE9B86@gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	<5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
	<1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>
	<CAAyyWE8mrKqMnPM_2z4SVpU_hNYDHrFFDBWp1C18yZ5VAWc=YA@mail.gmail.com>
	<78B279CD-9E08-4C83-9F7F-5A81B4CE9B86@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAyyWE8FN2QrnD=8RTbtNkQT2FcWPG23UABN075KpuzuO-4zBw@mail.gmail.com>

On 31 January 2013 15:07, Olaf Alders <olaf.alders at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> There's a Dave Doyle on the "No Fly List"?


Not the no fly list so much as a financial scammer of some kind.  Since
there are probably thousands of Dave Doyle's in Canada and the US and about
a million in Ireland, it'd get pretty awkward for us if there was. :)

That being said, being in a waiting room with lots of people with blue
gloves on makes one nervous.
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From arocker at Vex.Net  Thu Jan 31 14:29:09 2013
From: arocker at Vex.Net (arocker at Vex.Net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 17:29:09 -0500
Subject: [tpm] tn1 visa and remote work?
In-Reply-To: <CAAyyWE8mrKqMnPM_2z4SVpU_hNYDHrFFDBWp1C18yZ5VAWc=YA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <207BCADF-EB7D-4EFB-A723-A3A3694FE7B4@stok.ca>
	<51018C16.3040109@jbldata.com>
	<CD03891D-6020-420F-815D-09C8AD5D1DE4@gmail.com>
	<5101A3FC.30405@jbldata.com>
	<1762321926-1359064428-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-482838185-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<4478440D-DFF1-4ADE-A105-19117D29614D@stok.ca>
	<858578410-1359067599-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497804904-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<97C081FB-010B-4DA7-BDFF-087F0B1B6A66@stok.ca>
	<5105BD5A.3040509@stemsystems.com>
	<1609065321-1359334194-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-848019188-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry>
	<95A080D6-72B4-43D6-A351-1128682CD005@gmail.com>
	<CAAyyWE8mrKqMnPM_2z4SVpU_hNYDHrFFDBWp1C18yZ5VAWc=YA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1944c9995280b54ad4d980e4e96938e2.squirrel@mail.vex.net>


>  I carry a letter from the Director of my division for every trip

I think it helps considerably if the firm is large enough to be impressive
to an average ignoramus. (Or better, some tentacle of the Government.)