From olaf at vilerichard.com  Mon Mar  1 12:22:35 2010
From: olaf at vilerichard.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:22:35 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Katrik's shooter.pl modified with ball seeking action
	[presented during the last meeting]
In-Reply-To: <4B8756A8.6020607@softwareprocess.es>
References: <4B8756A8.6020607@softwareprocess.es>
Message-ID: <31DE4739-27F6-454D-875D-5E437B968DBD@vilerichard.com>

On 2010-02-26, at 12:05 AM, Abram Hindle wrote:

> So I modified Katrik's game by adding a little dude you control with the
> mouse cursor. He doddles along trying to follow your mouse cursor and
> eats all balls that bump into him. As he gets fatter he gets slower so
> you'd better prioritize the order of balls before he gets too slow!

This is a fun modification of the game.  On a related note, it would be interesting to have a follow-up SDL meeting at some point where folks could show off their new games (ball seeking and otherwise).  

Olaf



From linux at alteeve.com  Mon Mar  1 12:42:53 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Digimer)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:42:53 -0500
Subject: [tpm] CPAN is down?
Message-ID: <4B8C26CD.5070503@alteeve.com>

Or is it just me?

From mfowle at navicominc.com  Mon Mar  1 12:44:29 2010
From: mfowle at navicominc.com (Mark Fowle)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:44:29 -0500
Subject: [tpm] CPAN is down?
In-Reply-To: <4B8C26CD.5070503@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <759E3F14A23281479A85A082BBCFA5427CBF9C@sbsa.NavicomInc.local>

Cpan is more than one computer.

search.cpan.org is up for me.


www.cpan.org is also up for me.


-----Original Message-----
From: toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle=navicominc.com at pm.org
[mailto:toronto-pm-bounces+mfowle=navicominc.com at pm.org] On Behalf Of
Digimer
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:43 PM
To: Toronto Perl Mongers
Subject: [tpm] CPAN is down?

Or is it just me?
_______________________________________________
toronto-pm mailing list
toronto-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

From linux at alteeve.com  Mon Mar  1 12:47:47 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Digimer)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:47:47 -0500
Subject: [tpm] CPAN is down?
In-Reply-To: <4B8C26CD.5070503@alteeve.com>
References: <4B8C26CD.5070503@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4B8C27F3.7040403@alteeve.com>

On 10-03-01 03:42 PM, Digimer wrote:
> Or is it just me?

Strike that, it's back.

From adam.prime at utoronto.ca  Mon Mar  1 12:47:48 2010
From: adam.prime at utoronto.ca (Adam Prime)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:47:48 -0500
Subject: [tpm] CPAN is down?
In-Reply-To: <4B8C26CD.5070503@alteeve.com>
References: <4B8C26CD.5070503@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4B8C27F4.8000202@utoronto.ca>

search.cpan.org and www.cpan.org are both working fine for me.

Digimer wrote:
> Or is it just me?
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm


From thakore.kartik at gmail.com  Mon Mar  1 13:57:55 2010
From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:57:55 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Katrik's shooter.pl modified with ball seeking action
	[presented during the last meeting]
In-Reply-To: <31DE4739-27F6-454D-875D-5E437B968DBD@vilerichard.com>
References: <4B8756A8.6020607@softwareprocess.es>
	<31DE4739-27F6-454D-875D-5E437B968DBD@vilerichard.com>
Message-ID: <3A80081E-8F04-4D01-9303-7F4D38CD7BD9@gmail.com>

That would be nice! I am up for it! I will even post new games on sdl.perl.org 
.

Kartik Thakore

On 2010-03-01, at 3:22 PM, Olaf Alders <olaf at vilerichard.com> wrote:

> On 2010-02-26, at 12:05 AM, Abram Hindle wrote:
>
>> So I modified Katrik's game by adding a little dude you control  
>> with the
>> mouse cursor. He doddles along trying to follow your mouse cursor and
>> eats all balls that bump into him. As he gets fatter he gets slower  
>> so
>> you'd better prioritize the order of balls before he gets too slow!
>
> This is a fun modification of the game.  On a related note, it would  
> be interesting to have a follow-up SDL meeting at some point where  
> folks could show off their new games (ball seeking and otherwise).
>
> Olaf
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

From mike at stok.ca  Mon Mar  1 17:32:11 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:32:11 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Katrik's shooter.pl modified with ball seeking action
	[presented during the last meeting]
In-Reply-To: <3A80081E-8F04-4D01-9303-7F4D38CD7BD9@gmail.com>
References: <4B8756A8.6020607@softwareprocess.es>
	<31DE4739-27F6-454D-875D-5E437B968DBD@vilerichard.com>
	<3A80081E-8F04-4D01-9303-7F4D38CD7BD9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5A7171C1-0701-47A1-BA53-A778608D2D71@stok.ca>


On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:57 PM, Kartik Thakore wrote:

> That would be nice! I am up for it! I will even post new games on sdl.perl.org.

How long do you think is a reasonable gap?  Maybe having half the April meeting for games would be soon enough for SDL to still be fresh in our minds?

That would make a smaller slot for the other presenter(s) to fill.

Mike

> 
> Kartik Thakore
> 
> On 2010-03-01, at 3:22 PM, Olaf Alders <olaf at vilerichard.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2010-02-26, at 12:05 AM, Abram Hindle wrote:
>> 
>>> So I modified Katrik's game by adding a little dude you control with the
>>> mouse cursor. He doddles along trying to follow your mouse cursor and
>>> eats all balls that bump into him. As he gets fatter he gets slower so
>>> you'd better prioritize the order of balls before he gets too slow!
>> 
>> This is a fun modification of the game.  On a related note, it would be interesting to have a follow-up SDL meeting at some point where folks could show off their new games (ball seeking and otherwise).
>> 
>> Olaf
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> toronto-pm mailing list
>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From linux at alteeve.com  Mon Mar  1 17:49:26 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Digimer)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:49:26 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Implementing a 'less' like pager in perl
Message-ID: <4B8C6EA6.7000500@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I like to have built-in '--help' messages in some of my programs, but 
am always at a loss for how to allow the user to page through it. 
Usually I have a message at the bottom akin to; "Please call './foo 
--help |less' to make reading this help message easier". That screams of 
"cop-out" though.

   I know I could use perldoc, but I don't like assuming that my user 
knows anything about perl.

   I've already got code to handle line wrapping and indenting lines. I 
just need some way to stop my output after X number of lines, where X is 
the terminal's number of rows, and then take the up and down arrows to 
scoll up and down through the message, with ESC or Q exiting.

   Any tips/pointers?

Thanks!

From jkeen at verizon.net  Mon Mar  1 18:58:41 2010
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:58:41 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Implementing a 'less' like pager in perl
In-Reply-To: <4B8C6EA6.7000500@alteeve.com>
References: <4B8C6EA6.7000500@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4DC24393-0CE2-452F-A2E9-D0E85455B33E@verizon.net>


On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Digimer wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>   I like to have built-in '--help' messages in some of my programs,  
> but am always at a loss for how to allow the user to page through  
> it. Usually I have a message at the bottom akin to; "Please call './ 
> foo --help |less' to make reading this help message easier".

...

>
>   I know I could use perldoc, but I don't like assuming that my  
> user knows anything about perl.
>

If you "usually" tell the user to call './foo -- help | less', then  
it stands to reason your user is familiar with the Unix command-line.

In which case, instructing them to call 'perldoc ./foo' is not much  
of a stretch.

Or, you could create 'man' pages for your programs.  They, too,  
automatically include paging.

If you wrote POD for your programs, you could use 'pod2man' to  
generate the man pages.  (And I have a CPAN distribution, Pod-Multi,  
that will let you generate documentation from POD simultaneously to  
text, man and HTML format.)

Jim Keenan

From sfryer at sourcery.ca  Mon Mar  1 19:16:23 2010
From: sfryer at sourcery.ca (Shaun Fryer)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:16:23 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Implementing a 'less' like pager in perl
In-Reply-To: <4DC24393-0CE2-452F-A2E9-D0E85455B33E@verizon.net>
References: <4B8C6EA6.7000500@alteeve.com>
	<4DC24393-0CE2-452F-A2E9-D0E85455B33E@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <982579711003011916g2153d326tb1700f3083707776@mail.gmail.com>

The hackish way to do it would be to simply call the pager for them...

my $pager = $ENV{PAGER} || 'most' || 'less' || 'more';
if ($argv0_is_help) {
   if ( the_pager_exists_on_their_system($pager) ) {
       system "perl $0 --helpless | $pager";
   } else {
       print help() and exit;
   }
}
if ($argv0_is_helpless) {
    print help();
}

Or something like that... You could probably write something up in
curses, but (apart from legitimate security issue) ... why reinvent
the wheel?
--
Shaun Fryer

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:58 PM, James E Keenan <jkeen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Digimer wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> ?I like to have built-in '--help' messages in some of my programs, but am
>> always at a loss for how to allow the user to page through it. Usually I
>> have a message at the bottom akin to; "Please call './foo --help |less' to
>> make reading this help message easier".
>
> ...
>
>>
>> ?I know I could use perldoc, but I don't like assuming that my user knows
>> anything about perl.
>>
>
> If you "usually" tell the user to call './foo -- help | less', then it
> stands to reason your user is familiar with the Unix command-line.
>
> In which case, instructing them to call 'perldoc ./foo' is not much of a
> stretch.
>
> Or, you could create 'man' pages for your programs. ?They, too,
> automatically include paging.
>
> If you wrote POD for your programs, you could use 'pod2man' to generate the
> man pages. ?(And I have a CPAN distribution, Pod-Multi, that will let you
> generate documentation from POD simultaneously to text, man and HTML
> format.)
>
> Jim Keenan
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>

From thakore.kartik at gmail.com  Tue Mar  2 07:02:40 2010
From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:02:40 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Katrik's shooter.pl modified with ball seeking action
	[presented during the last meeting]
In-Reply-To: <5A7171C1-0701-47A1-BA53-A778608D2D71@stok.ca>
References: <4B8756A8.6020607@softwareprocess.es>
	<31DE4739-27F6-454D-875D-5E437B968DBD@vilerichard.com>
	<3A80081E-8F04-4D01-9303-7F4D38CD7BD9@gmail.com>
	<5A7171C1-0701-47A1-BA53-A778608D2D71@stok.ca>
Message-ID: <10C16B3E-B094-4C12-8ABB-DA945145C433@gmail.com>

Sure that is fine by me!

Kartik Thakore

On 2010-03-01, at 8:32 PM, Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca> wrote:

>
> On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:57 PM, Kartik Thakore wrote:
>
>> That would be nice! I am up for it! I will even post new games on sdl.perl.org 
>> .
>
> How long do you think is a reasonable gap?  Maybe having half the  
> April meeting for games would be soon enough for SDL to still be  
> fresh in our minds?
>
> That would make a smaller slot for the other presenter(s) to fill.
>
> Mike
>
>>
>> Kartik Thakore
>>
>> On 2010-03-01, at 3:22 PM, Olaf Alders <olaf at vilerichard.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2010-02-26, at 12:05 AM, Abram Hindle wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I modified Katrik's game by adding a little dude you control  
>>>> with the
>>>> mouse cursor. He doddles along trying to follow your mouse cursor  
>>>> and
>>>> eats all balls that bump into him. As he gets fatter he gets  
>>>> slower so
>>>> you'd better prioritize the order of balls before he gets too slow!
>>>
>>> This is a fun modification of the game.  On a related note, it  
>>> would be interesting to have a follow-up SDL meeting at some point  
>>> where folks could show off their new games (ball seeking and  
>>> otherwise).
>>>
>>> Olaf
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> toronto-pm mailing list
>>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>> _______________________________________________
>> toronto-pm mailing list
>> toronto-pm at pm.org
>> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>
> -- 
>
> Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
> http://www.stok.ca/~mike/
>
> The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>
>
>
>

From ejanev at gmail.com  Tue Mar  2 08:10:09 2010
From: ejanev at gmail.com (Emil Janev)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:10:09 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Fwd:  Implementing a 'less' like pager in perl
In-Reply-To: <a87409f41003020807s791a4bdu83e93e4ced914982@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B8C6EA6.7000500@alteeve.com>
	<a87409f41003020807s791a4bdu83e93e4ced914982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a87409f41003020810yb19e4bqcf0fd4758646054e@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Emil Janev <ejanev at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [tpm] Implementing a 'less' like pager in perl
To: Digimer <linux at alteeve.com>



You could check Pod::Usage module which is in the Perl core for some time.

http://perldoc.perl.org/Pod/Usage.html


The examples there are pretty much clear.

To get the paging:

pod2usage(-verbose => 2)


will print what "perldoc program_name" will print, paging included with it.

--
Emil



On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Digimer <linux at alteeve.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>  I like to have built-in '--help' messages in some of my programs, but am
> always at a loss for how to allow the user to page through it. Usually I
> have a message at the bottom akin to; "Please call './foo --help |less' to
> make reading this help message easier". That screams of "cop-out" though.
>
>  I know I could use perldoc, but I don't like assuming that my user knows
> anything about perl.
>
>  I've already got code to handle line wrapping and indenting lines. I just
> need some way to stop my output after X number of lines, where X is the
> terminal's number of rows, and then take the up and down arrows to scoll up
> and down through the message, with ESC or Q exiting.
>
>  Any tips/pointers?
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>



-- 
Emil Janev



-- 
Emil Janev
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From mike at stok.ca  Thu Mar  4 10:38:47 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:38:47 -0500
Subject: [tpm] March meeting - soliciting speakers
Message-ID: <EE17562D-DE33-4369-905F-C4BA750B2C63@stok.ca>

This month's meeting is in three weeks, and so far we have a short warm-up presentation lined up.  

Do any of you have any Perl related presentations, talks, observations, diatribes that you'd like to deliver?  If so, let me know (on or off list.)

Mike
 
-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From mike at stok.ca  Tue Mar  9 04:12:28 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 07:12:28 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Fwd: [pm_groups] Fwd: Calling All Google Summer of Code
	Mentors
References: <201003090832.03503.Richard.Foley@rfi.net>
Message-ID: <246AD1A2-969B-47BE-B092-7FCFB3FE1356@stok.ca>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Richard Foley <Richard.Foley at rfi.net>
> Date: March 9, 2010 3:32:03 AM EST
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>, Mongers Perl MUC <perl-mongers at 42.org>
> Subject: Fwd: [pm_groups] Fwd: Calling All Google Summer of Code Mentors
> Reply-To: Richard.Foley at rfi.net, "London.pm Perl M\[ou\]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> 
> 
> Please forward this to your local groups and help spread the word this 
> month about getting involved in Google Summer of Code.
> 
>  http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc_perlmongers
> 
> --
> Richard Foley
> Ciao - shorter than aufwiedersehen
> 
> http://www.rfi.net/
> 
> ----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
> 
> Subject: [pm_groups] Fwd: Calling All Google Summer of Code Mentors
> Date: Tuesday 09 March 2010
> From: Eric Wilhelm <scratchcomputing at gmail.com>
> To: PM Groups <pm_groups at pm.org>
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Please forward this to your local groups and help spread the word this 
> month about getting involved in Google Summer of Code.
> 
>  http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc_perlmongers
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric
> ----------  Forwarded Message:  ----------
> 
> Subject: Calling All Google Summer of Code Mentors
> Date: Monday 08 March 2010
> From: Jonathan Leto <jaleto at gmail.com>
> To: Portland Perl Mongers <pdx-pm-list at pm.org>
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> I am working on the application for The Perl Foundation and Parrot
> Foundation to participate in Google Summer of Code 2010 [0]. GSoC is a
> program where Google funds eligible students to hack on open source
> projects for a summer. It is a great opportunity for the students and
> the communities that mentor them. You also may be interested in this
> summary of our involvement last year [1]. Our application will be
> submitted by the end of this week.
> 
> Please join us in getting prepared for this year. There is a page for
> possible mentors to volunteer [2]* as well as a page for project ideas
> [3]. If you would like to help with the wiki, our main GSoC page [4]
> is the best place to start. You are also invited to join our mailing
> list [5] and come ask question in #soc-help on irc.perl.org .
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Duke
> 
> [0] http://socghop.appspot.com/
> [1] 
> http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/10/perls-of-wisdom-perl-foundation-parrots.html
> [2] http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc_mentors
> [3] http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc_2010_projects
> [4] http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc
> [5] http://groups.google.com/group/tpf-gsoc
> 
> * If you listed yourself as a mentor last year and you are not
> interested this year, please remove yourself from the page.
> 
> --
> Jonathan "Duke" Leto
> jonathan at leto.net
> http://leto.net
> --
> Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org
> 
> pm_groups mailing list
> pm_groups at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From arocker at vex.net  Tue Mar  9 05:55:32 2010
From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:55:32 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Fwd: [pm_groups] Fwd: Calling All Google Summer of Code
	Mentors
Message-ID: <d4ab1de4719a34b41aa106c073d1307e.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>


Is there anybody involved with the Google Summer of Code project who could
talk to us about it?

If this month's meeting is too late for applications this year, would it
be possible to talk about the projects chosen?

Perhaps we should pencil in a talk in January or February next year, to
prepare 2011's crop?


From mike at stok.ca  Tue Mar  9 10:18:54 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:18:54 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Fwd: [pm_groups] Fwd: Calling All Google Summer of Code
	Mentors
In-Reply-To: <d4ab1de4719a34b41aa106c073d1307e.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
References: <d4ab1de4719a34b41aa106c073d1307e.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>
Message-ID: <57ED2E18-2EAB-41A7-9A6D-2B9DDD9247FA@stok.ca>


On Mar 9, 2010, at 8:55 AM, arocker at vex.net wrote:

> 
> Is there anybody involved with the Google Summer of Code project who could
> talk to us about it?
> 
> If this month's meeting is too late for applications this year, would it
> be possible to talk about the projects chosen?
> 
> Perhaps we should pencil in a talk in January or February next year, to
> prepare 2011's crop?

I think that putting something for discussing GSoC in the January 2011 meeting slot is a great idea.  I'll do that.

Thanks,

Mike

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.





From bobby.lopez at gmail.com  Wed Mar 10 12:42:04 2010
From: bobby.lopez at gmail.com (J. Bobby Lopez)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:42:04 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Question on CPAN modules and eliminating multiple installs
Message-ID: <cda3eb111003101242y178247bap5da5b4e83b43504a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have several applications installed on multiple servers, and many of them
are using many of the same modules (both CPAN modules and custom modules).

I'm looking at ways of reducing or eliminating this duplication of code
across systems - or failing that, implementing a way for the applications to
rsync a central modules repository over to the local system on a regular
basis.

What I'm looking for is the ability to grab modules from a remote system
which are currently not installed on the local system, and stuffing them
away in some non-root directory (e.g: ~/perl/local_modules/CPAN/,
~/perl/local_modules/CUSTOM/).  Basically only grabbing the modules I need
for a given server, and not everything available on the remote central
modules repository.

Before I get ahead of myself and start designing this from scratch for my
own purposes, I'm curious if there are any modules or tools that TPM's are
currently using to do the same thing.

I've looked at some modules like Mini CPAN, but they seem to be attempting
to implement a CPAN mirror of some kind, whereas I'm trying to implement a
local repository of modules which are already installed and ready for use.

Thanks,
Bobby
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From olaf at vilerichard.com  Wed Mar 10 12:48:02 2010
From: olaf at vilerichard.com (Olaf Alders)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:48:02 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Question on CPAN modules and eliminating multiple installs
In-Reply-To: <cda3eb111003101242y178247bap5da5b4e83b43504a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cda3eb111003101242y178247bap5da5b4e83b43504a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4816C18D-7E7F-42B3-B1FA-801D846E3BBA@vilerichard.com>


On 2010-03-10, at 3:42 PM, J. Bobby Lopez wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I have several applications installed on multiple servers, and many of them are using many of the same modules (both CPAN modules and custom modules).
> 
> I'm looking at ways of reducing or eliminating this duplication of code across systems - or failing that, implementing a way for the applications to rsync a central modules repository over to the local system on a regular basis.
> 
> What I'm looking for is the ability to grab modules from a remote system which are currently not installed on the local system, and stuffing them away in some non-root directory (e.g: ~/perl/local_modules/CPAN/, ~/perl/local_modules/CUSTOM/).  Basically only grabbing the modules I need for a given server, and not everything available on the remote central modules repository.
> 
> Before I get ahead of myself and start designing this from scratch for my own purposes, I'm curious if there are any modules or tools that TPM's are currently using to do the same thing.
> 
> I've looked at some modules like Mini CPAN, but they seem to be attempting to implement a CPAN mirror of some kind, whereas I'm trying to implement a local repository of modules which are already installed and ready for use.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bobby
> _______________________________________________

I haven't actually used it myself, but ShipWright may suit your needs:

http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Shipwright

Best,

Olaf

From jztam at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 14:19:29 2010
From: jztam at yahoo.com (J Z Tam)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:19:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tpm] Question on CPAN modules and eliminating multiple installs
In-Reply-To: <cda3eb111003101242y178247bap5da5b4e83b43504a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cda3eb111003101242y178247bap5da5b4e83b43504a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <668354.33530.qm@web57616.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hey JBL, 
  I've had good results disting a centralized perl server instance successfully  using the docs in:
 http://www.penguin-inc.com/BMRCCUG/download/Interop4.htm

This requires some intermediate SDLC disting theory and install permissions on various servers in your farm.
The wins are: 
1. centralized major/minor version control of the interpreter. Theoretically, since I've only installed the next higher Major version of the interpreter, thus testing 5.next with the existing module collection that we are currently running at 5.current.

2. centralized modules version-ing control.  So in order to dist out multiple versions of  the same [modules, packages, libs] from CPAN or localKeyboards, you will likely need to NAME the version of each module you 'require' or 'use'
e.g.  use Win32::Process-0.13;
       use  TPM::getPerlServerInfo-0.13;
versus  
       use  Win32::Process-0.14;
       use  TPM::getPerlServerInfo-0.15;

The calling sequence will also need some changing, depending how you spawn the script:
e.g. from crontab or the shell:            \\newPerlServer\pathto\Perl\bin\perl       -w  \\localServer\path\to\local\src\perl\myTestProgram.pl
or                                                     \\newPerlServer\pathto\Perl586\bin\perl -w  \\localServer\path\to\local\src\perl\myTestProgram.pl
or                                                    
\\newPerlServer\pathto\Perl511\bin\perl -w 
\\localServer\path\to\local\src\perl\myTestProgram.pl
In a 'real' dev shop, you might dist and run everything from *nix and have afs,dfs,nfs in place so you could cron/schedule/autosys, symlink, log, etc.
e.g. using ksh to fire it up using SheBang notation from within:         #!/pathtobin/ksh -- # -*- perl -*-
with the appropriate munging of the env var for this ksh user.
hth, /jordan





________________________________
From: J. Bobby Lopez <bobby.lopez at gmail.com>
To: Toronto Perl Mongers <tpm at to.pm.org>
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 3:42:04 PM
Subject: [tpm] Question on CPAN modules and eliminating multiple installs

Hi All,

I have several applications installed on multiple servers, and many of them are using many of the same modules (both CPAN modules and custom modules).

I'm looking at ways of reducing or eliminating this duplication of code across systems - or failing that, implementing a way for the applications to rsync a central modules repository over to the local system on a regular basis.

What I'm looking for is the ability to grab modules from a remote system which are currently not installed on the local system, and stuffing them away in some non-root directory (e.g: ~/perl/local_modules/CPAN/, ~/perl/local_modules/CUSTOM/).  Basically only grabbing the modules I need for a given server, and not everything available on the remote central modules repository.

Before I get ahead of myself and start designing this from scratch for my own purposes, I'm curious if there are any modules or tools that TPM's are currently using to do the same thing.

I've looked at some modules like Mini CPAN, but they seem to be attempting to implement a CPAN mirror of some kind, whereas I'm trying to implement a local repository of modules which are already installed and ready for use.

Thanks,
Bobby



      __________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
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From mike at stok.ca  Thu Mar 11 10:18:00 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:18:00 -0500
Subject: [tpm] March speaker(s) still wanted
Message-ID: <0A0E1949-A31E-4231-83EF-858A715C8294@stok.ca>

We have a couple of people lined up with short presentations, is there anyone out there who would feel inspired to do a "March Madness" talk?

Mike
-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From jbl at jbldata.com  Thu Mar 11 10:44:49 2010
From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:44:49 -0500
Subject: [tpm] Question on CPAN modules and eliminating multiple installs
In-Reply-To: <668354.33530.qm@web57616.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <cda3eb111003101242y178247bap5da5b4e83b43504a@mail.gmail.com>
	<668354.33530.qm@web57616.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cda3eb111003111044h4863b103pd7fb6d0bcf483394@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the responses, much appreciated.  I'll take a look at both and
see if either fits with what I'm looking for.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 5:19 PM, J Z Tam <jztam at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hey JBL,
>   I've had good results disting a centralized perl server instance
> successfully  using the docs in:
>  http://www.penguin-inc.com/BMRCCUG/download/Interop4.htm
>
> This requires some intermediate SDLC disting theory and install permissions
> on various servers in your farm.
> The wins are:
> 1. centralized major/minor version control of the interpreter.
> Theoretically, since I've only installed the next higher Major version of
> the interpreter, thus testing 5.next with the existing module collection
> that we are currently running at 5.current.
> 2. centralized modules version-ing control.  So in order to dist out
> multiple versions of  the same [modules, packages, libs] from CPAN or
> localKeyboards, you will likely need to NAME the version of each module you
> 'require' or 'use'
> e.g.  use Win32::Process-0.13;
>        use  TPM::getPerlServerInfo-0.13;
> versus
>        use Win32::Process-0.14;
>        use  TPM::getPerlServerInfo-0.15;
>
> The calling sequence will also need some changing, depending how you spawn
> the script:
> e.g. from crontab or the shell:
> \\newPerlServer\pathto\Perl\bin\perl       -w
> \\localServer\path\to\local\src\perl\myTestProgram.pl
> or
> \\newPerlServer\pathto\Perl586\bin\perl -w
> \\localServer\path\to\local\src\perl\myTestProgram.pl
> or
> \\newPerlServer\pathto\Perl511\bin\perl -w
> \\localServer\path\to\local\src\perl\myTestProgram.pl
> In a 'real' dev shop, you might dist and run everything from *nix and have
> afs,dfs,nfs in place so you could cron/schedule/autosys, symlink, log, etc.
> e.g. using ksh to fire it up using SheBang notation from within:
> #!/pathtobin/ksh -- # -*- perl -*-
> with the appropriate munging of the env var for this ksh user.
> hth, /jordan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* J. Bobby Lopez <bobby.lopez at gmail.com>
> *To:* Toronto Perl Mongers <tpm at to.pm.org>
> *Sent:* Wed, March 10, 2010 3:42:04 PM
> *Subject:* [tpm] Question on CPAN modules and eliminating multiple
> installs
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have several applications installed on multiple servers, and many of them
> are using many of the same modules (both CPAN modules and custom modules).
>
> I'm looking at ways of reducing or eliminating this duplication of code
> across systems - or failing that, implementing a way for the applications to
> rsync a central modules repository over to the local system on a regular
> basis.
>
> What I'm looking for is the ability to grab modules from a remote system
> which are currently not installed on the local system, and stuffing them
> away in some non-root directory (e.g: ~/perl/local_modules/CPAN/,
> ~/perl/local_modules/CUSTOM/).  Basically only grabbing the modules I need
> for a given server, and not everything available on the remote central
> modules repository.
>
> Before I get ahead of myself and start designing this from scratch for my
> own purposes, I'm curious if there are any modules or tools that TPM's are
> currently using to do the same thing.
>
> I've looked at some modules like Mini CPAN, but they seem to be attempting
> to implement a CPAN mirror of some kind, whereas I'm trying to implement a
> local repository of modules which are already installed and ready for use.
>
> Thanks,
> Bobby
>
> ------------------------------
> The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo!
> *Get it Now for Free!* <http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/>
>
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From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Mon Mar 15 18:47:40 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:47:40 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1003151847r1e4bd28fwd23b889c297a9845@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know what I can do to detect an unreachable UDP port?

The application uses UDP to talk to the remote system.  Just a simple
send/receive pair.  But if the 'other end's application isn't there, ie,
no listener, then the remote host returns an ICMP message saying
the port is unreachable.  Trouble is that I can't seem to see that
as an error response to either the send, or receive or select (looking
at the 'error' bit list).

BTW.  I'm not allowed to send or receive any other messages,
only check the return values for the normal transactions, send(),
receive(), select(), or possibly check some status that might be
buried somewhere within the system.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
Fulko
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From hanker at ifdsgroup.com  Mon Mar 15 20:24:16 2010
From: hanker at ifdsgroup.com (hanker at ifdsgroup.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:24:16 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
Message-ID: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>

AfaIk,
No err checking is avail on that level. I suggest go one or two levels up in osi and negotiate protocol (I assume you have picked one already?), eg: hello, wait for hello in  return, sending xxx bytes, wait for go ahead in return... So on.

Herman


----- Original Message -----
From: Fulko Hew [fulko.hew at gmail.com]
Sent: 03/15/2010 09:47 PM AST
To: TPM <tpm at to.pm.org>
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?



Does anyone know what I can do to detect an unreachable UDP port?

The application uses UDP to talk to the remote system.  Just a simple
send/receive pair.  But if the 'other end's application isn't there, ie,
no listener, then the remote host returns an ICMP message saying
the port is unreachable.  Trouble is that I can't seem to see that
as an error response to either the send, or receive or select (looking
at the 'error' bit list).

BTW.  I'm not allowed to send or receive any other messages,
only check the return values for the normal transactions, send(),
receive(), select(), or possibly check some status that might be
buried somewhere within the system.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
Fulko


-----------------------------------------
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This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the
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_______________________________________________
toronto-pm mailing list
toronto-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm


-----------------------------------------
Please consider the environment before printing this email and any
attachments.

This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the
individual or company to which it is addressed and may contain
information which is privileged, confidential and prohibited from
disclosure or unauthorized use under applicable law.  If you are
not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified
that any use, dissemination, or copying of this e-mail or the
information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited by the
sender.  If you have received this transmission in error, please
return the material received to the sender and delete all copies
from your system.

From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Mon Mar 15 21:47:56 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:47:56 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:24 PM, <hanker at ifdsgroup.com> wrote:

>
> AfaIk,
> No err checking is avail on that level. I suggest go one or two levels up
> in osi and negotiate protocol (I assume you have picked one already?), eg:
> hello, wait for hello in  return, sending xxx bytes, wait for go ahead in
> return... So on
>

Nope... can't... Its SNMP and I'm querying a remote address.
The address exists, but there is no SNMP daemon on the std port.
so I query, and the remote end returns 'no port'.  Since the ICMP isn't
returned
upstream, SNMP assumes a 'no response', times out, and retries.

... All this time wasted retrying when the system already told us
there was no one there!

There has to be a better way!

Fulko
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From thakore.kartik at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 05:28:57 2010
From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:28:57 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>

Hi Fulko,

Have you tried NetPacket::ICMP? I have used this module before to  
decode ICMP packets and get data based on their ICMP code.  
ICMP_UNREACH is the code you want.

Kartik Thakore

On 2010-03-16, at 12:47 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:24 PM, <hanker at ifdsgroup.com> wrote:
>
> AfaIk,
> No err checking is avail on that level. I suggest go one or two  
> levels up in osi and negotiate protocol (I assume you have picked  
> one already?), eg: hello, wait for hello in  return, sending xxx  
> bytes, wait for go ahead in return... So on
>
>
> Nope... can't... Its SNMP and I'm querying a remote address.
> The address exists, but there is no SNMP daemon on the std port.
> so I query, and the remote end returns 'no port'.  Since the ICMP  
> isn't returned
> upstream, SNMP assumes a 'no response', times out, and retries.
>
> ... All this time wasted retrying when the system already told us
> there was no one there!
>
> There has to be a better way!
>
> Fulko
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
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From thakore.kartik at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 06:53:12 2010
From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:53:12 +0000
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx>

Hi Fulko,

Something like this perhaps. Haven't tested it.

Cheers!

__PERL__

use strict;
use Net::Pcap;
use NetPacket::ICMP qw/ICMP_UNREACH/;

my $err = '';
my $dev = Net::Pcap::pcap_lookupdev(\$err);

die $err if $err;

my $pcap = Net::Pcap::pcap_open_live($dev, 1024,1,0,\$err);

die $err if $err;

sub process_pkt {
 my( $user_data, $header, $packet) = @_;
 
 my $icmp_obj = NetPacket::ICMP->decode($packet);

 warn 'ICMP UNREACH CODE CAUGHT' if ($icmp_obj->type == ICMP_UNREACH);

}

Net::Pcap::pcap_loop($pcap, 10, \&process_pkt, "Demo");

Net::Pcap::pcap_close($pcap);

__END_PERL__

From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 07:19:42 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:19:42 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com> 
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>
	<20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1003160719l8aeb501l37645a53a195da14@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Kartik Thakore <thakore.kartik at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Fulko,
>


> Have you tried NetPacket::ICMP? I have used this module before to decode
> ICMP packets and get data based on their ICMP code. ICMP_UNREACH is the code
> you want.
>

I looked at that last night. It provides a way to decode packets, but
my confusion lies in, how would I  (easily) get the packet to decode...
while I was in the middle of actually attempting to receive the actual
application data.  (I will however, investigate further.)

... snip ...


> use Net::Pcap;
>

... snip ...

Yes, I had thought of that, but running a packet sniffer is a 'hell of an
overkill'
to determine something (that in retrospect) should have been reported back
to the application (somehow).

So far, all I seem to have is an application level timeout.
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From thakore.kartik at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 07:52:48 2010
From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:52:48 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1003160719l8aeb501l37645a53a195da14@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>
	<20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx>
	<8204a4fe1003160719l8aeb501l37645a53a195da14@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D2721FB-43B3-47D5-8036-3DC4EC45B2C4@gmail.com>

Or you can process the output of ping:

http://inetdaemon.com/tutorials/troubleshooting/tools/ping/index.html

see the link

PING response type codes

Kartik Thakore

On 2010-03-16, at 10:19 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Kartik Thakore <thakore.kartik at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> Hi Fulko,
>
> Have you tried NetPacket::ICMP? I have used this module before to  
> decode ICMP packets and get data based on their ICMP code.  
> ICMP_UNREACH is the code you want.
>
> I looked at that last night. It provides a way to decode packets, but
> my confusion lies in, how would I  (easily) get the packet to  
> decode...
> while I was in the middle of actually attempting to receive the actual
> application data.  (I will however, investigate further.)
>
> ... snip ...
>
> use Net::Pcap;
>
> ... snip ...
>
> Yes, I had thought of that, but running a packet sniffer is a 'hell  
> of an overkill'
> to determine something (that in retrospect) should have been  
> reported back
> to the application (somehow).
>
> So far, all I seem to have is an application level timeout.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
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From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 08:21:50 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:21:50 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <1D2721FB-43B3-47D5-8036-3DC4EC45B2C4@gmail.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com> 
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>
	<20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx> 
	<8204a4fe1003160719l8aeb501l37645a53a195da14@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1D2721FB-43B3-47D5-8036-3DC4EC45B2C4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1003160821j20de0ce8p384e30e6aa5947ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Kartik Thakore
<thakore.kartik at gmail.com>wrote:

> Or you can process the output of ping:
>
> http://inetdaemon.com/tutorials/troubleshooting/tools/ping/index.html
>

The problem with this approach is that it too is independent of the actual
transactions that may exhibit the problem.

Ie.  If you ping the device first, that doesn't mean that you won't get
an 'unreachable' moments later during the numerous subsequent
transactions.  And to perform a ping right in front of each of those
transactions is mega-overkill.  And then finally, why do an extra ping to
tickle a response, when the actual transaction will generate the response
itself!
(Its just a matter of being able to retrieve/extract it from the system.

Its just that doing with the ping approach proabably means that you have
an 'raw' level path open, and you are doing the ICMP protocol (send)
stuff all yourself, and that enables you to do the ICMP receive too.

What I really need is a way that the application still does its high
level stuff, but also 'register a listener' for potential ICMP (low) level
messages.
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From thakore.kartik at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 08:30:38 2010
From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:30:38 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1003160821j20de0ce8p384e30e6aa5947ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>
	<20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx>
	<8204a4fe1003160719l8aeb501l37645a53a195da14@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D2721FB-43B3-47D5-8036-3DC4EC45B2C4@gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1003160821j20de0ce8p384e30e6aa5947ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <378CA429-1E8C-464E-A174-66A7B04A3380@gmail.com>

To get the low kevel ICMP messages short of a packet listener you will  
need to write some c level socket, then do XS to get it in perl.

Kartik Thakore

On 2010-03-16, at 11:21 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Kartik Thakore <thakore.kartik at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> Or you can process the output of ping:
>
> http://inetdaemon.com/tutorials/troubleshooting/tools/ping/index.html
>
> The problem with this approach is that it too is independent of the  
> actual
> transactions that may exhibit the problem.
>
> Ie.  If you ping the device first, that doesn't mean that you won't  
> get
> an 'unreachable' moments later during the numerous subsequent
> transactions.  And to perform a ping right in front of each of those
> transactions is mega-overkill.  And then finally, why do an extra  
> ping to
> tickle a response, when the actual transaction will generate the  
> response itself!
> (Its just a matter of being able to retrieve/extract it from the  
> system.
>
> Its just that doing with the ping approach proabably means that you  
> have
> an 'raw' level path open, and you are doing the ICMP protocol (send)
> stuff all yourself, and that enables you to do the ICMP receive too.
>
> What I really need is a way that the application still does its high
> level stuff, but also 'register a listener' for potential ICMP (low)  
> level
> messages.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
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From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Tue Mar 16 09:17:27 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:17:27 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <378CA429-1E8C-464E-A174-66A7B04A3380@gmail.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com> 
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>
	<20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx> 
	<8204a4fe1003160719l8aeb501l37645a53a195da14@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1D2721FB-43B3-47D5-8036-3DC4EC45B2C4@gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1003160821j20de0ce8p384e30e6aa5947ee@mail.gmail.com> 
	<378CA429-1E8C-464E-A174-66A7B04A3380@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1003160917w6dcf7383of5de94ef357944bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Kartik Thakore
<thakore.kartik at gmail.com>wrote:

> To get the low kevel ICMP messages short of a packet listener you will need
> to write some c level socket, then do XS to get it in perl.
>

But the Perl/CPAN people keep saying... 'everything you can possible want
has already (probably) been written, and is available as a CPAN module.'

:-)

I can probably open some kind of raw ICMP protocol socket and add
it to the select() list the app already has.  ... The devil is in the
details.
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From stuart at morungos.com  Tue Mar 16 09:56:46 2010
From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:56:46 -0400
Subject: [tpm] how to detect ICMP 'port unreachable'?
In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe1003160917w6dcf7383of5de94ef357944bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OF264CD456.0A1263D9-ON852576E8.0012B382@dstsystems.com>
	<8204a4fe1003152147i7689415cl5ce832201607f1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<17304965-0836-43B0-9E17-15C81C3A9A55@gmail.com>	<20100316135312.GA6026@kasdlperl.ath.cx>
	<8204a4fe1003160719l8aeb501l37645a53a195da14@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D2721FB-43B3-47D5-8036-3DC4EC45B2C4@gmail.com>	<8204a4fe1003160821j20de0ce8p384e30e6aa5947ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<378CA429-1E8C-464E-A174-66A7B04A3380@gmail.com>
	<8204a4fe1003160917w6dcf7383of5de94ef357944bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9FB84E.1060902@morungos.com>

Fulko Hew wrote:
>
> I can probably open some kind of raw ICMP protocol socket and add
> it to the select() list the app already has.  ... The devil is in the 
> details.
>
I haven't done raw socket stuff for years, but the following URL looks 
like it might be a start. It's in C, but all the functions are the 
standard socket ones built into Perl, so it should be straightforward to 
adapt.

http://www.planet-lab.org/raw_sockets/api_icmp.html

All the best
Stuart
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From linux at alteeve.com  Wed Mar 17 11:11:42 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Digimer)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:11:42 -0400
Subject: [tpm] Question of the day
Message-ID: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com>

'Alo all,

I need to "tail -f" a file, and I've accomplished that using this:

my $log_file="/some/file.txt";
my $read=IO::Handle->new();
open ($read, "<$log_file") || die "Failed to open log file: [$log_file], 
error: $!\n";
# while (<$read>)
for (;;)
{
	my $curpos;
	for ($curpos = tell($read); <$read>; $curpos = tell($read))
	{
		# search for some stuff and put it into files
		chomp;
		print "line: [$_]\n";
	}
	# sleep for a while
	sleep 1;
	seek($read, $curpos, 0);  # seek to where we had been
}

That's pretty much verbatim from the FAQ, but it's a resource hog, 
relatively speaking. Is there way to make the loop event driven by chance?

Basically, I need to watch a log file and update a database when an 
entry is written. To complicate matters, the log file is cycled each 
night, so it would need to be able to handle the position being reset to 0.

Thanks all!

-- 
Digimer
E-Mail:         linux at alteeve.com
AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com
Node Assassin:  http://nodeassassin.org

From fulko.hew at gmail.com  Wed Mar 17 11:40:11 2010
From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:40:11 -0400
Subject: [tpm] Question of the day
In-Reply-To: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com>
References: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <8204a4fe1003171140y87bc32fob80c1803c6e3917f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Digimer <linux at alteeve.com> wrote:

> 'Alo all,
>
> I need to "tail -f" a file, and I've accomplished that using this:
>

... snip ...

Although I can't really help on the issue your asking,
I can (possibly) throw in another monkey-wrench...

Another thing to consider is: 'what happens when the logfile
you're watching is rotated out from underneath you?'

You sort of need to check that the inode hasn't changed
and reopen, etc. it it has.

Fulko
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From stuart at morungos.com  Wed Mar 17 11:48:54 2010
From: stuart at morungos.com (Stuart Watt)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:48:54 -0400
Subject: [tpm] Question of the day
In-Reply-To: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com>
References: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4BA12416.7050505@morungos.com>

Digimer wrote:
> 'Alo all,
>
> ...
>
> Basically, I need to watch a log file and update a database when an 
> entry is written. To complicate matters, the log file is cycled each 
> night, so it would need to be able to handle the position being reset 
> to 0.
File::Tail is supposed to do all this. I never used it (tests failed on 
Windows) and there are some reports of it also being resource hungry, 
but it was designed to handle logs being rolled over, etc.

All the best
Stuart
-- 
Stuart Watt
ARM Product Developer
Information Balance
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From indy at indigostar.com  Thu Mar 18 14:53:16 2010
From: indy at indigostar.com (Indy Singh)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:53:16 -0400
Subject: [tpm] What does this line of Perl code mean?
References: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com> <4BA12416.7050505@morungos.com>
Message-ID: <979EDCD43CC14E249C050B5FA33C7331@ROADKILL>

Hi all,

What does the following line of code mean and why is it needed?
local $SIG{__WARN__} = \&dirty;

It is part of Acme::Bleach which is below.

For bonus points what is the purpose of $tie?

package Acme::Bleach;
$VERSION = '1.12';
my $tie = " \t"x8;
sub whiten { local $_ = unpack "b*", pop; tr/01/ \t/; s/(.{9})/$1\n/g; 
$tie.$_ }
sub brighten { local $_ = pop; s/^$tie|[^ \t]//g; tr/ \t/01/; pack "b*", 
$_ }
sub dirty { $_[0] =~ /\S/ }
sub dress { $_[0] =~ /^$tie/ }
open 0 or print "Can't rebleach '$0'\n" and exit;
(my $shirt = join "", <0>) =~ s/.*^\s*use\s+Acme::Bleach\s*;\n//sm;
local $SIG{__WARN__} = \&dirty;
do {eval brighten $shirt; exit} unless dirty $shirt && not dress $shirt;
open 0, ">$0" or print "Cannot bleach '$0'\n" and exit;
print {0} "use Acme::Bleach;\n", whiten $shirt and exit;
__END__


Indy Singh
IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com 


From linux at alteeve.com  Thu Mar 18 15:02:42 2010
From: linux at alteeve.com (Digimer)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:02:42 -0400
Subject: [tpm] What does this line of Perl code mean?
In-Reply-To: <979EDCD43CC14E249C050B5FA33C7331@ROADKILL>
References: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com> <4BA12416.7050505@morungos.com>
	<979EDCD43CC14E249C050B5FA33C7331@ROADKILL>
Message-ID: <4BA2A302.50400@alteeve.com>

On 10-03-18 05:53 PM, Indy Singh wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What does the following line of code mean and why is it needed?
> local $SIG{__WARN__} = \&dirty;

When the program catches a SIGWARN signal, it calls the 'dirty' function.

-- 
Digimer
E-Mail:         linux at alteeve.com
AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com
Node Assassin:  http://nodeassassin.org

From uri at StemSystems.com  Thu Mar 18 15:12:04 2010
From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:12:04 -0400
Subject: [tpm] What does this line of Perl code mean?
In-Reply-To: <979EDCD43CC14E249C050B5FA33C7331@ROADKILL>
	(Indy Singh's message of "Thu\, 18 Mar 2010 17\:53\:16 -0400")
References: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com> <4BA12416.7050505@morungos.com>
	<979EDCD43CC14E249C050B5FA33C7331@ROADKILL>
Message-ID: <87eijhl1or.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>

>>>>> "IS" == Indy Singh <indy at indigostar.com> writes:

  IS> What does the following line of code mean and why is it needed?
  IS> local $SIG{__WARN__} = \&dirty;

dirty() is a boolean test so that does nothing other than to quiet
warnings. they may be triggered in the eval or even elsewhere in this
module.
  IS> It is part of Acme::Bleach which is below.

  IS> For bonus points what is the purpose of $tie?

it is a whitespace marker that says whether this source file has been
bleached or not. dress() tests for it and whiten() prepends it to the
source. brighten (which unbleaches) removes the leading $tie.

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman  ------  uri at stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com --
-----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------

From mike at stok.ca  Thu Mar 18 16:23:31 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:23:31 -0400
Subject: [tpm] Thursday 25 March meeting
Message-ID: <D103D43B-ABC5-466B-89CC-5EC53ED4107A@stok.ca>

The Toronto Perl Mongers meeting is taking place next Thursday.  http://to.pm.org/ will be updated when I know the room & floor.

Mike

Date: Thu 25 Mar 2010 18:45 EDT
Venue: Nexient
Topic: March Madness

This month we have a few talks for your delight. The first is a quick introdcution to OPENapps, and then a dose of Perl mayhem, and then a look at some of the modules Richard Dice has been using lately.

Kristan "Krispy" Uccello: An introduction to OPENapps

Imagine you create a web application and had the ability to sell it to many web site owners on the internet. Now imagine you could sell it without giving up the source code. OPENapps makes this happen.

OPENapps is a powerful language agnostic platform allowing you to offer up web applications to a wide audience of website owners. OPENapps takes care of the things that developers typically find boring or repetitious such as billing and tracking; while at the same time providing robust technology for integration of your applications with content publishers sites.

OPENapps is offering a limited developer beta to web developers who demonstrate that they have a killer app idea and a desire to implement it.

Mark Jubenville: Perl Mayhem

A little delayed gratification from last year's Lightning Talks.

Richard Dice: Show & Tell - Modules Richard is using

A look at some of the things Richard is working with these days, including Coro, AnyEvent and the daemonization of Perl code.

Meetings

We normally hold meetings on the last Thursday of each month.

These meetings range from a single Perl theme to code reviews to rambling free-for-all discussions of things Perlish. We occasionally have meetings with special guests lecturing on or teaching about their specialties. After the meeting we usually go out for food and drinks. Perl hackers of all skill levels are invited.

Location: 2 Bloor Street West, (usually) 8th or 16th floor. The room number will be announced on the mailing list a few days before the meeting. It will also be left with the security desk in the building (main floor lobby) shortly before the meeting starts (i.e. around 6pm).

Time: 6:45 p.m.

Directions: This building is on the north-west corner of Bloor and Yonge, accessible by subway from Bloor station. Pay parking is also ample in this area.

Security note: The elevators in the building are "locked down" after 5:30pm to people without building access cards. Leading up to the meeting someone will come down to the main floor lobby every few minutes to ferry people upstairs. There will be a number of scheduled trips:

	? 17:30
	? 18:00
	? 18:30
	? 18:45
	? 19:00
After 19:00, you can reach the access-card-carrying guy via a cell phone number that we'll leave with security in the front lobby. The room and floor numbers will be left with security too.

If any latecomers call up there will be a final group elevator run at 19:10. After that, access will be ad-hoc; call up from security and somebody will try to come down and let you up.

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From sergio at salvi.ca  Thu Mar 18 17:50:43 2010
From: sergio at salvi.ca (Sergio Salvi)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:50:43 -0400
Subject: [tpm] What does this line of Perl code mean?
In-Reply-To: <87eijhl1or.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
References: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com> <4BA12416.7050505@morungos.com>
	<979EDCD43CC14E249C050B5FA33C7331@ROADKILL>
	<87eijhl1or.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
Message-ID: <568473411003181750o1c74c5a6p83d918104470cf2d@mail.gmail.com>

Talk about *clean* code :-P

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "IS" == Indy Singh <indy at indigostar.com> writes:
>
> ?IS> What does the following line of code mean and why is it needed?
> ?IS> local $SIG{__WARN__} = \&dirty;
>
> dirty() is a boolean test so that does nothing other than to quiet
> warnings. they may be triggered in the eval or even elsewhere in this
> module.
> ?IS> It is part of Acme::Bleach which is below.
>
> ?IS> For bonus points what is the purpose of $tie?
>
> it is a whitespace marker that says whether this source file has been
> bleached or not. dress() tests for it and whiten() prepends it to the
> source. brighten (which unbleaches) removes the leading $tie.
>
> uri
>
> --
> Uri Guttman ?------ ?uri at stemsystems.com ?-------- ?http://www.sysarch.com --
> ----- ?Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
> --------- ?Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ?---- ?http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
> _______________________________________________
> toronto-pm mailing list
> toronto-pm at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm
>

From matt at sergeant.org  Fri Mar 19 08:24:55 2010
From: matt at sergeant.org (Matt Sergeant)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:24:55 -0400
Subject: [tpm] Question of the day
In-Reply-To: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com>
References: <4BA11B5E.6070605@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4BA39747.4090603@sergeant.org>

What platform?

There's a tail.pl example in the IO::KQueue distro. But it only works on 
platforms with kqueue.

Digimer wrote:
> That's pretty much verbatim from the FAQ, but it's a resource hog, 
> relatively speaking. Is there way to make the loop event driven by 
> chance? 

From mike at stok.ca  Thu Mar 25 06:59:38 2010
From: mike at stok.ca (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:59:38 -0400
Subject: [tpm] March meeting tonight
Message-ID: <FC30C2DA-3E6A-404F-B3FA-E551DB9B3AB2@stok.ca>

This month's meeting is tonight. See http://to.pm.org/ for details.

Mike


Date: Thu 25 Mar 2010 18:45 EDT
Venue: Nexient; Room 2 on the 12th floor
Topic: March Madness

This month we have a few talks for your delight. The first is a quick introdcution to OPENapps, and then a dose of Perl mayhem, and then a look at some of the modules Richard Dice has been using lately.

Kristan "Krispy" Uccello: An introduction to OPENapps

Imagine you create a web application and had the ability to sell it to many web site owners on the internet. Now imagine you could sell it without giving up the source code. OPENapps makes this happen.

OPENapps is a powerful language agnostic platform allowing you to offer up web applications to a wide audience of website owners. OPENapps takes care of the things that developers typically find boring or repetitious such as billing and tracking; while at the same time providing robust technology for integration of your applications with content publishers sites.

OPENapps is offering a limited developer beta to web developers who demonstrate that they have a killer app idea and a desire to implement it.

Mark Jubenville: Perl Mayhem

A little delayed gratification from last year's Lightning Talks.

Richard Dice: Show & Tell - Modules Richard is using

A look at some of the things Richard is working with these days, including Coro, AnyEvent and the daemonization of Perl code.

Meetings

We normally hold meetings on the last Thursday of each month.

These meetings range from a single Perl theme to code reviews to rambling free-for-all discussions of things Perlish. We occasionally have meetings with special guests lecturing on or teaching about their specialties. After the meeting we usually go out for food and drinks. Perl hackers of all skill levels are invited.

Location: 2 Bloor Street West, (usually) 8th or 16th floor. The room number will be announced on the mailing list a few days before the meeting. It will also be left with the security desk in the building (main floor lobby) shortly before the meeting starts (i.e. around 6pm).

Time: 6:45 p.m.

Directions: This building is on the north-west corner of Bloor and Yonge, accessible by subway from Bloor station. Pay parking is also ample in this area.

Security note: The elevators in the building are "locked down" after 5:30pm to people without building access cards. Leading up to the meeting someone will come down to the main floor lobby every few minutes to ferry people upstairs. There will be a number of scheduled trips:

	? 17:30
	? 18:00
	? 18:30
	? 18:45
	? 19:00
After 19:00, you can reach the access-card-carrying guy via a cell phone number that we'll leave with security in the front lobby. The room and floor numbers will be left with security too.

If any latecomers call up there will be a final group elevator run at 19:10. After that, access will be ad-hoc; call up from security and somebody will try to come down and let you up.

-- 

Mike Stok <mike at stok.ca>
http://www.stok.ca/~mike/

The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.




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From arocker at vex.net  Wed Mar 31 13:17:40 2010
From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:17:40 -0400
Subject: [tpm] Inflated Job Definitions
Message-ID: <9001c66b4c176b9c76331e3189bc07c0.squirrel@webmail.vex.net>


"Software engineer" is a fancy term for "code monkey". "Software Designer"
seems to mean "code monkey without a spec to follow".

Courtesy of brian d. foy: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=445845