From arocker at vex.net Thu Aug 6 15:37:31 2009 From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] Perlmonks problems Message-ID: If anyone has used Perlmonks, but not recently, you might want to know that the site was compromised, and passwords published. http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=784737 From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.us Thu Aug 6 17:47:04 2009 From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.us (Abram Hindle) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] Perlmonks problems In-Reply-To: (sfid-20090806_184205_768980_CCEA018F) References: (sfid-20090806_184205_768980_CCEA018F) Message-ID: If you forgot your password you could always check: http://r00tsecurity.org/files/zf05.txt Just search for "larry wall" and you'll find the relevant section. abram On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, arocker at vex.net wrote: > > If anyone has used Perlmonks, but not recently, you might want to know > that the site was compromised, and passwords published. > > http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=784737 > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > From rdice at pobox.com Fri Aug 7 05:42:49 2009 From: rdice at pobox.com (Richard Dice) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:42:49 +0100 Subject: [tpm] Perlmonks problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bef4baf0908070542j4f244eaesdd5a22812239e3d0@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Abram Hindle < abram.hindle at softwareprocess.us> wrote: > > If you forgot your password you could always check: > > http://r00tsecurity.org/files/zf05.txt > > Just search for "larry wall" and you'll find the relevant section. > Is this the full list? I know there was a published list of "saints" and "gods", but there were only about people in there. The _full_ site password list was compromised, so that would have been many thousands of people. If you have a Perlmonks account, your password was obtained in plaintext. If you use that password in many places, you need to change all instances of use of that password ASAP. Cheers, - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbl at jbldata.com Fri Aug 7 05:51:14 2009 From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:51:14 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Perlmonks problems In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0908070542j4f244eaesdd5a22812239e3d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bef4baf0908070542j4f244eaesdd5a22812239e3d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It isn't the full list, they just gave an excerpt in that ezine, but I'm sure the full list is floating around. On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Richard Dice wrote: > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Abram Hindle < > abram.hindle at softwareprocess.us> wrote: > >> >> If you forgot your password you could always check: >> >> http://r00tsecurity.org/files/zf05.txt >> >> Just search for "larry wall" and you'll find the relevant section. >> > > > Is this the full list? I know there was a published list of "saints" and > "gods", but there were only about people in there. The _full_ site password > list was compromised, so that would have been many thousands of people. > > If you have a Perlmonks account, your password was obtained in plaintext. > If you use that password in many places, you need to change all instances of > use of that password ASAP. > > Cheers, > - Richard > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > -- J. Bobby Lopez Web: http://jbldata.com/ Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jbobbylopez -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abram.hindle at softwareprocess.us Fri Aug 7 06:12:32 2009 From: abram.hindle at softwareprocess.us (Abram Hindle) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:12:32 -0400 Subject: [tpm] UNS: Re: Perlmonks problems In-Reply-To: <4A7C269F.7050508@alteeve.com> (sfid-20090807_090716_036515_551AA725) References: (sfid-20090806_184205_768980_CCEA018F) <4A7C269F.7050508@alteeve.com> (sfid-20090807_090716_036515_551AA725) Message-ID: <4A7C2840.4090806@softwareprocess.us> I think Perlmonks runs off of slashcode, which was made by Rob Malda (I think). If one wants to recover passwords they have to be plaintext, but really Rob should've known better. I suspect this is just a legacy app problem. That said, any website who can send you your old password, is storing it in a readable format. It doesn't matter if it is plaintext or not, if it isn't hashed well it is recoverable when the machine is compromised. abram Madison Kelly wrote: > Abram Hindle wrote: >> >> If you forgot your password you could always check: >> >> http://r00tsecurity.org/files/zf05.txt >> >> Just search for "larry wall" and you'll find the relevant section. >> >> abram > > I've always understood that storing plain-text passwords was very, very > bad. I am quite surprised that a site like Perlmonks did this. Why would > anyone not store a hash of the passwords these days? > > I went through this a few months back when the phpBB site was > compromised and was very upset. Now here we go again. I am not upset > that perlmonks was compromised... it happens. I am very upset though > that they didn't seem to take the time to store password hashes instead. > > Am I being too hard on them? What justification could there be for this? > > Madi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From adam.prime at utoronto.ca Fri Aug 7 07:09:49 2009 From: adam.prime at utoronto.ca (Adam Prime) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:09:49 -0400 Subject: [tpm] UNS: Re: Perlmonks problems In-Reply-To: <4A7C2840.4090806@softwareprocess.us> References: (sfid-20090806_184205_768980_CCEA018F) <4A7C269F.7050508@alteeve.com> (sfid-20090807_090716_036515_551AA725) <4A7C2840.4090806@softwareprocess.us> Message-ID: <4A7C35AD.6060306@utoronto.ca> Perlmonks is based off of the everything engine. use.perl.org is based off of slash. Adam Abram Hindle wrote: > I think Perlmonks runs off of slashcode, which was made by Rob Malda (I > think). If one wants to recover passwords they have to be plaintext, but > really Rob should've known better. I suspect this is just a legacy app > problem. > > That said, any website who can send you your old password, is storing it > in a readable format. > > It doesn't matter if it is plaintext or not, if it isn't hashed well it > is recoverable when the machine is compromised. > > abram > > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Abram Hindle wrote: >>> If you forgot your password you could always check: >>> >>> http://r00tsecurity.org/files/zf05.txt >>> >>> Just search for "larry wall" and you'll find the relevant section. >>> >>> abram >> I've always understood that storing plain-text passwords was very, very >> bad. I am quite surprised that a site like Perlmonks did this. Why would >> anyone not store a hash of the passwords these days? >> >> I went through this a few months back when the phpBB site was >> compromised and was very upset. Now here we go again. I am not upset >> that perlmonks was compromised... it happens. I am very upset though >> that they didn't seem to take the time to store password hashes instead. >> >> Am I being too hard on them? What justification could there be for this? >> >> Madi > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From arocker at vex.net Fri Aug 7 14:03:22 2009 From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] Terminating SSH sessions Message-ID: What is the proper command to drop an SSH connection? The documentation is rather vague on the subject. I have a connection established with (essentially): $ssh = Net::SSH:Perl->new('remote.machine_id', protocol => '2' &c); $ssh->login("valid_id"); Trying to hang up with: ($stdout, $stderr, $rc) = $ssh->cmd("disconnect"); produces a return code of 127, and an "disconnect: command not found" error message from bash in $stderr Changing "disconnect" to "exit" produces a nice clean hang up. From talexb at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 14:12:24 2009 From: talexb at gmail.com (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:12:24 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Terminating SSH sessions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:03 PM, wrote: > > What is the proper command to drop an SSH connection? The documentation is > rather vague on the subject. > > I have a connection established with (essentially): > > $ssh = Net::SSH:Perl->new('remote.machine_id', protocol => '2' &c); > $ssh->login("valid_id"); > > Trying to hang up with: > > ($stdout, $stderr, $rc) = $ssh->cmd("disconnect"); > > produces a return code of 127, and an "disconnect: command not found" > error message from bash in $stderr > > Changing "disconnect" to "exit" produces a nice clean hang up. Alternatively, just let the $ssh variable fall out of scope, and Net::SSH::Perl should just Do The Right Thing and close the connection. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb From linux at alteeve.com Fri Aug 14 09:46:09 2009 From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:46:09 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time... Why does @ISA have to be scoped global? Message-ID: <4A8594D1.6010007@alteeve.com> As I understand it, when you have a package like: package Aaa::Bbb; use Aaa::Bbb::Foo; our @ISA=("Aaa::Bbb::Foo"); ... Package "Aaa::Bbb" will consult it's @ISA to look for packages to look for methods in when it doesn't have the requested method itself. As I understand it, this would make me think only that package accesses the @ISA array. So why then does 'perlmod' say: Such a package may also derive some of its methods from another class (package) by listing the other package name(s) in its global @ISA array (which must be a package global, not a lexical). I've never liked the answer "Just because", so thanks in advance for helping to placate my curiosity. :) Madi From uri at stemsystems.com Fri Aug 14 10:02:55 2009 From: uri at stemsystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:02:55 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Stupid question time... Why does @ISA have to be scoped global? In-Reply-To: <4A8594D1.6010007@alteeve.com> (Madison Kelly's message of "Fri\, 14 Aug 2009 12\:46\:09 -0400") References: <4A8594D1.6010007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <87eire8h1c.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> >>>>> "MK" == Madison Kelly writes: MK> As I understand it, when you have a package like: MK> package Aaa::Bbb; MK> use Aaa::Bbb::Foo; MK> our @ISA=("Aaa::Bbb::Foo"); MK> ... MK> Package "Aaa::Bbb" will consult it's @ISA to look for packages to look MK> for methods in when it doesn't have the requested method itself. As I MK> understand it, this would make me think only that package accesses the MK> @ISA array. So why then does 'perlmod' say: MK> Such a package may also derive some of its methods from another class MK> (package) by listing the other package name(s) in its global @ISA MK> array (which must be a package global, not a lexical). packages don't scan @ISA, perl does. and it uses the names in @ISA to find package namespaces to search for methods. and each package can provide its own @ISA so they have to be package globals to be found. if they were lexicals they could (easily) be found by perl. also there are other modules which do wierd things with the @ISA tree and need to be able to see them too. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html --------- --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From uri at StemSystems.com Thu Aug 20 10:00:37 2009 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:00:37 -0400 Subject: [tpm] job posting rules Message-ID: <87fxbmqv2i.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> hi all, i am curious about the job posting rules for this list. i know other list have rules like jobs need to be sent to someone for vetting first (boston) or there is a separate jobs list (london). anything (un)official i should know about? thanx, uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From rdice at pobox.com Thu Aug 20 10:08:42 2009 From: rdice at pobox.com (Richard Dice) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:08:42 -0400 Subject: [tpm] job posting rules In-Reply-To: <87fxbmqv2i.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> References: <87fxbmqv2i.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0908201008i229f02bcla8e7d3170bc1407f@mail.gmail.com> > i am curious about the job posting rules for this list. i know other > list have rules like jobs need to be sent to someone for vetting first > (boston) or there is a separate jobs list (london). anything > (un)official i should know about? > I believe the culture we've built up over the past few years is that job postings are okay as long as they're civil, on-topic (i.e. have to have something to do with Perl), and informative. Informative means that they include a description of the company involved and the kind of work you'd be doing. (Postings for companies afraid to share their names often get flamed.) There is no separate-list or prior moderation needed. Cheers, - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uri at StemSystems.com Thu Aug 20 10:16:37 2009 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:16:37 -0400 Subject: [tpm] job posting rules In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0908201008i229f02bcla8e7d3170bc1407f@mail.gmail.com> (Richard Dice's message of "Thu\, 20 Aug 2009 13\:08\:42 -0400") References: <87fxbmqv2i.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> <5bef4baf0908201008i229f02bcla8e7d3170bc1407f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <873a7mqubu.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> >>>>> "RD" == Richard Dice writes: RD> i am curious about the job posting rules for this list. i know other RD> list have rules like jobs need to be sent to someone for vetting first RD> (boston) or there is a separate jobs list (london). anything RD> (un)official i should know about? RD> I believe the culture we've built up over the past few years is RD> that job postings are okay as long as they're civil, on-topic RD> (i.e. have to have something to do with Perl), and informative.? RD> Informative means that they include a description of the company RD> involved and the kind of work you'd be doing.? (Postings for RD> companies afraid to share their names often get flamed.) RD> There is no separate-list or prior moderation needed. sounds good and i will deal with them just fine. note that i am an agent (perlhunter.com) and won't post company names as that is private but i will be accurate about job descriptions and such. i do have something i will post later today aimed at canadians specifically so i wanted to send it to this list. thanx, uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From thakore.kartik at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 13:13:12 2009 From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:13:12 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Hello! Toronto Message-ID: <0FE2C7AD-D017-450F-88DA-79A75F8C5AD3@gmail.com> Hello mongers, I am a newcomer to perl land. I started hacking perl 3 months ago. Currently I am working on the SDL perl module. Http://sdl.perl.org. I wanted to know what Toronto perl hackers do? Fun stuff to look out for and so on. Is there a irc channel somewhere? And i just wanted to say hi! Kartik Thakore From thakore.kartik at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 14:23:20 2009 From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:23:20 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Hello! Toronto In-Reply-To: <4A8DB129.5060902@alteeve.com> References: <0FE2C7AD-D017-450F-88DA-79A75F8C5AD3@gmail.com> <4A8DB129.5060902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi Madison, I am not new to Toronto. I am new to perl, and this mailing list. I wanted to know if Toronto mongrers do any events? Kartik Thakore On 20-Aug-09, at 4:25 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Kartik Thakore wrote: >> Hello mongers, >> I am a newcomer to perl land. I started hacking perl 3 months ago. >> Currently I am working on the SDL perl module. Http://sdl.perl.org. >> I wanted to know what Toronto perl hackers do? Fun stuff to look >> out for and so on. Is there a irc channel somewhere? >> And i just wanted to say hi! >> Kartik Thakore > > Hiya! > > Welcome to Toronto! I moved here 14 years ago from New Brunswick, > and have found this community very welcoming. I am sure you will, too. > > Personally, I code perl for fun and profit. My day job (main > client) is a local ISP that I've been writing a management system > for this last year. As a hobby I've been working on a suite of > modules to use as a "rapid development architecture"... Basically a > suite that will handle all of my usual portable code; Log functions, > config files support, translation, templating and so forth. This > grew out of a backup program I wrote in perl some years back and > plan to re-write using my RDA modules "some day real soon now". :) > > Cheers! > > Madi From jkeen at verizon.net Thu Aug 20 15:13:33 2009 From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:13:33 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Hello! Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <0FE2C7AD-D017-450F-88DA-79A75F8C5AD3@gmail.com> <4A8DB129.5060902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Kartik Thakore wrote: > > Hi Madison, > I am not new to Toronto. I am new to perl, and this mailing list. I > wanted to know if Toronto mongrers do any events? We meet almost every month on the last Thursday of the month. That means we'll be meeting one week from tonight, Thursday August 27. Unless otherwise indicated, meetings take place at 2 Bloor St West, though the exact room varies from month to month. IIRC, you have to get there by a certain time (6:15pm ?) because the elevators are "locked" past normal business hours. Can Torontonians post more details? Meetings run roughly 6:30-8:30. There is usually food/drink in the vicinity after the meetings. There is a lightly-trafficked IRC channel: #tpm on ircperlorg. Out-of-town Barbara From legrady at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 15:50:46 2009 From: legrady at gmail.com (Tom Legrady) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:50:46 -0400 Subject: [tpm] job posting rules In-Reply-To: <873a7mqubu.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> References: <87fxbmqv2i.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> <5bef4baf0908201008i229f02bcla8e7d3170bc1407f@mail.gmail.com> <873a7mqubu.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> Message-ID: <3c9af5830908201550r52149cd5u1e125c6fd9bcc506@mail.gmail.com> I believe the rule is that if you give me a large enough stack of cash, you can post anything you want On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Uri Guttman wrote: > >>>>> "RD" == Richard Dice writes: > > RD> i am curious about the job posting rules for this list. i know > other > RD> list have rules like jobs need to be sent to someone for vetting > first > RD> (boston) or there is a separate jobs list (london). anything > RD> (un)official i should know about? > > RD> I believe the culture we've built up over the past few years is > RD> that job postings are okay as long as they're civil, on-topic > RD> (i.e. have to have something to do with Perl), and informative. > RD> Informative means that they include a description of the company > RD> involved and the kind of work you'd be doing. (Postings for > RD> companies afraid to share their names often get flamed.) > > RD> There is no separate-list or prior moderation needed. > > sounds good and i will deal with them just fine. note that i am an agent > (perlhunter.com) and won't post company names as that is private but i > will be accurate about job descriptions and such. i do have something i > will post later today aimed at canadians specifically so i wanted to > send it to this list. > > thanx, > > uri > > -- > Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com-- > ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support > ------ > --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com--------- > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From indy at indigostar.com Thu Aug 20 17:08:10 2009 From: indy at indigostar.com (Indy Singh) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:08:10 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Hello! Toronto References: <0FE2C7AD-D017-450F-88DA-79A75F8C5AD3@gmail.com><4A8DB129.5060902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: The elevators in the building are "locked down" after 5:30pm to people without building access cards. Leading up to the meeting someone will come down to the main floor lobby every few minutes to ferry people upstairs. After 19:00, you can reach the access-card-carrying guy via a cell phone number that we'll leave with security in the front lobby. The room and floor numbers will be left with security too. Indy Singh IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E Keenan" To: "Kartik Thakore" Cc: "Toronto Perl Mongers" Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [tpm] Hello! Toronto > > On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Kartik Thakore wrote: > >> >> Hi Madison, >> I am not new to Toronto. I am new to perl, and this mailing list. I >> wanted to know if Toronto mongrers do any events? > > We meet almost every month on the last Thursday of the month. That > means we'll be meeting one week from tonight, Thursday August 27. > Unless otherwise indicated, meetings take place at 2 Bloor St West, > though the exact room varies from month to month. IIRC, you have to > get there by a certain time (6:15pm ?) because the elevators are > "locked" past normal business hours. Can Torontonians post more > details? > > Meetings run roughly 6:30-8:30. There is usually food/drink in the > vicinity after the meetings. There is a lightly-trafficked IRC > channel: #tpm on ircperlorg. > > Out-of-town Barbara > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From quantum.mechanic.1964 at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 06:56:04 2009 From: quantum.mechanic.1964 at gmail.com (Quantum Mechanic) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:56:04 -0400 Subject: [tpm] August topic? Message-ID: <77f3972e0908210656h37b52e0tab41352a1bd8ef5@mail.gmail.com> Is there a topic for August's meeting? -- -QM Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of From uri at StemSystems.com Fri Aug 21 12:01:39 2009 From: uri at StemSystems.com (Uri Guttman) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:01:39 -0400 Subject: [tpm] canadian telecommut job openings Message-ID: <87r5v5c7os.fsf@quad.sysarch.com> hi all, i have 2 job openings with an strong interest in canadian perl hackers and even a stronger interest in quebecois hackers. yes, i know toronto is in ontario but you are still canadian and that is good for this employer! below are the job requirements. please send your resume to uri at perlhunter.com in pdf or plain text. repeat NO WORD/redmondware. yes, i get that all the time even when i say not to. and yes, i can read them with OO but this is a little mental test. :) the jobs are telecommute, full time and salaried is preferable over contracting but either is possible. if you know anyone (especially quebecois! :) who would be interested in these jobs, please send them to me. pay is from $60k-$85k canadian DOE and possibly more for very qualified developers. thanx, uri Perl/Catalyst/Web Programmer Required Skills: * B.S. degree, or equivalent experience, in Computer Science * 3+ years of industry experience in Software Development * Proficient in Perl * Proficient in web applications based on MVC design * Solid understanding of unit testing and continuous build loop based development methodologies. * Knowledge and experience with RDBMS, SQL, and DB-based applications * Effective verbal and written English communication skills. * Strong analytical, organizational, and interpersonal skills including: excellent problem solving, planning, prioritizing, sound judgment and flexibility. Desired Skills: * Familiar with the Catalyst web application framework. * Familiar with creating and maintaining CPAN modules. * Familiar with REST based design * Familiar with Subversion and Trac -- Uri Guttman ------ uri at stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- From arocker at vex.net Fri Aug 21 12:23:08 2009 From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] August topic? In-Reply-To: <77f3972e0908210656h37b52e0tab41352a1bd8ef5@mail.gmail.com> References: <77f3972e0908210656h37b52e0tab41352a1bd8ef5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f072fd1f142010948c73263be39c512.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Quantum Mechanic asked: > Is there a topic for August's meeting? > > -QM Yes, "Installing VMWare" From jbl at jbldata.com Fri Aug 21 13:26:31 2009 From: jbl at jbldata.com (J. Bobby Lopez) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:26:31 -0400 Subject: [tpm] August topic? In-Reply-To: <1f072fd1f142010948c73263be39c512.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> References: <77f3972e0908210656h37b52e0tab41352a1bd8ef5@mail.gmail.com> <1f072fd1f142010948c73263be39c512.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Message-ID: Hi All, I hope not to get flamed for this - go easy on me :( Just found out that I'm flying to NY on that specific Thrusday. Trying to get around it, but it's not looking promising. Do you think it would be bad taste to run the install presentation remotely via phone and a remote desktop session? I'm just trying to find out my options, as I don't want to leave you all without a topic that day. I can also put it together for someone else to present, if that's an option? If we have a backup topic, or someone I can switch months with, that would be ideal, because I'd like to be there to try and answer any questions. Really sorry about this inconvenience. Bobby On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 3:23 PM, wrote: > Quantum Mechanic asked: > > > Is there a topic for August's meeting? > > > > -QM > > Yes, "Installing VMWare" > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > -- J. Bobby Lopez Web: http://jbldata.com/ Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jbobbylopez -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liam at holoweb.net Fri Aug 21 15:39:22 2009 From: liam at holoweb.net (Liam R E Quin) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:39:22 -0400 Subject: [tpm] August topic? In-Reply-To: References: <77f3972e0908210656h37b52e0tab41352a1bd8ef5@mail.gmail.com> <1f072fd1f142010948c73263be39c512.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Message-ID: <1250894362.19772.230.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> > Is there a topic for August's meeting? Wasn't that yesterday? I can never keep track. I'm wondering if I have anything useful enough to say to justify a trip to Toronto... recently I've been working on converting some texts that Google Books have scanned multiple times into XML, and thence to XHTML [1], using Perl and XSLT, making a "majority text" version, if anyone is interested. Also, how many people are interested in/doing XML stuff with Perl in TO these days? Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org From linux at alteeve.com Fri Aug 21 15:48:55 2009 From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:48:55 -0400 Subject: [tpm] August topic? In-Reply-To: <1250894362.19772.230.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> References: <77f3972e0908210656h37b52e0tab41352a1bd8ef5@mail.gmail.com> <1f072fd1f142010948c73263be39c512.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> <1250894362.19772.230.camel@desktop.barefootcomputing.com> Message-ID: <4A8F2457.6070809@alteeve.com> Liam R E Quin wrote: >> Is there a topic for August's meeting? > Wasn't that yesterday? I can never keep track. > > I'm wondering if I have anything useful enough to say > to justify a trip to Toronto... recently I've been working > on converting some texts that Google Books have scanned multiple > times into XML, and thence to XHTML [1], using Perl and XSLT, > making a "majority text" version, if anyone is interested. > > Also, how many people are interested in/doing XML stuff > with Perl in TO these days? > > Liam I use XML in my various programs for holding language data. I even wrote my own version of XML::Lite when the "Lite" portion became somewhat tenuous for use in my programs. :) Madi From linux at alteeve.com Sat Aug 22 10:38:07 2009 From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:38:07 -0400 Subject: [tpm] POD highlighting in Kate Message-ID: <4A902CFF.6070901@alteeve.com> Has anyone found such a plugin? I've not found anything on Google... though my Google-fu is sometimes weak. :P Madi From arocker at vex.net Sun Aug 23 06:41:05 2009 From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] Thursday's topic Message-ID: Jim Keenan has offered to talk: > on either (a) the state of the Parrot project; (b) the Corehackers project > Chip Salzenburg spoke about at YAPC, I think either or both would be interesting; how do others feel? From jkeen at verizon.net Mon Aug 24 18:12:41 2009 From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:12:41 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Github fluency, anyone? Message-ID: Is there anyone in Toronto who is already fluent in the Github-style of development, particularly with respect to Perl 5 source code now on Github? If so, I would appreciate meeting up with you for an hour or two between Wednesday and Saturday (outside of the time of the TPM meeting on Thursday). jimk From thakore.kartik at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 18:48:22 2009 From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:48:22 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Github fluency, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am busy this week but you can email me. I am using it for maintain SDL perl. http://github.com/kthakore/SDL_perl/tree/master http://search.cpan.org/~kthakore/SDL_Perl-v2.2.1.8/lib/SDL.pm and sdl.perl.org. On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:12 PM, James E Keenan wrote: > >> Is there anyone in Toronto who is already fluent in the Github-style of >> development, particularly with respect to Perl 5 source code now on Github? >> If so, I would appreciate meeting up with you for an hour or two between >> Wednesday and Saturday (outside of the time of the TPM meeting on Thursday). >> >> jimk >> _______________________________________________ >> toronto-pm mailing list >> toronto-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arocker at vex.net Tue Aug 25 06:21:50 2009 From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] Thursday's room Message-ID: <548d88fc995a493392ae2b9790dcf4af.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> The meeting room for this Thursday, August 27, is room 15 on the 8th floor. From fulko.hew at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 09:17:41 2009 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:17:41 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Rakudo in Fedora Message-ID: <8204a4fe0908250917y55667b6chbc85c440962d35f3@mail.gmail.com> For a change, I'm not posting with a question, but with an announcement... I don't know how many of you use Fedora on your systems, but the announcement for the alpha test release of the 'next' version of Fedora (12) came out this morning and Fedora 12 is/will be shipping with Rakudo! http://fedoraproject.org/get-prerelease -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arocker at vex.net Wed Aug 26 06:11:30 2009 From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] Thursday's meeting Message-ID: Jim Keenan is coming from New York, with updates on the progress of Parrot (and possibly other projects). A good turn-out will make it worth his while. The meeting room for this Thursday, August 27, is room 15 on the 8th floor. From jkeen at verizon.net Wed Aug 26 10:37:12 2009 From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:37:12 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Thursday's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 26, 2009, at 9:11 AM, arocker at vex.net wrote: > > Jim Keenan is coming from New York, with updates on the progress of > Parrot > (and possibly other projects). A good turn-out will make it worth his > while. > > The meeting room for this Thursday, August 27, is room 15 on the > 8th floor. > > 1. What's the meeting's exact starting time? (Or, better still, by what time should I be in the lobby so that I can get up the elevators with the group?) 2. I'll be touching upon areas such as these: (a) Current state of the Parrot virtual machine, and what even a total noob can do to contribute to the Parrot project. (b) Current state of Rakudo, the Perl 6 implementation on Parrot -- and what you can do to help out Perl 6 now. (c) Perl 5 Corehackers Project; my piece of the action: phalanxing the worst Larry Wall code ever; how you can help. There will be handouts for (a) and (b) -- but no pony. Refreshments to follow. Jim Keenan From fulko.hew at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 12:44:20 2009 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:44:20 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Thursday's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8204a4fe0908261244h710d0ac6qc2d36f79fc434a84@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:37 PM, James E Keenan wrote: > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 9:11 AM, arocker at vex.net wrote: > >> >> Jim Keenan is coming from New York, with updates on the progress of Parrot >> (and possibly other projects). A good turn-out will make it worth his >> while. >> >> The meeting room for this Thursday, August 27, is room 15 on the 8th >> floor. >> >> > > 1. What's the meeting's exact starting time? (Or, better still, by what > time should I be in the lobby so that I can get up the elevators with the > group?) Lobby time between 6:15 and 7pm Meeting starts at 7ish, or when the speaker shows up (whichever is later) > 2. I'll be touching upon areas such as these: > (a) Current state of the Parrot virtual machine, and what even a total noob > can do to contribute to the Parrot project. > (b) Current state of Rakudo, the Perl 6 implementation on Parrot -- and what > you can do to help out Perl 6 now. > (c) Perl 5 Corehackers Project; my piece of the action: phalanxing the > worst Larry Wall code ever; how you can help. > > There will be handouts for (a) and (b) -- but no pony. Refreshments to > follow. Jim's buy'in? :-) From jkeen at verizon.net Thu Aug 27 20:23:32 2009 From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:23:32 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Bullet Points from Tonight's TPM Presentation Message-ID: Live and raw from New York City to Toronto ... Perl/Parrot Miscellany: Talk at Toronto Perlmongers, Thursday, August 27, 2009, 7:00 pm I. Parrot Virtual Machine: * distribute copies of Allison's article * emphasize success of monthly release program, with major releases in Jan (n.0) and Jul (n.6) of each year ** 1.4 theme: stable interface for language implementers ** 2.0 theme: production * Parrot Developer's Guide: PIR, by Allison Randal and Andrew Whitworth, now available: ** http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=0977920127 * What can we use: ** tests on uncommon platforms -- particularly if you can help with debugging on those platforms *** we still have open RTs from Parrot Build Fest at TPM in March 2008: **** http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=52204 **** http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=52212 ** help from someone who understands linking on Mac OS X particularly re OpenGL and SDL *** https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/924 *** http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=52212 ** noobs: read http://docs.parrot.org and tell us what doesn't make sense II. Rakudo implementation of Perl 6 on Parrot Virtual Machine * distribute copies of pmichaud's use.perl.org posts * pumpking's request: Write programs in Perl 6 and give Perl 6 team feedback III. Perl 5 Corehackers Project * promoted by Chip Salzenburg at YAPC::NA::2009 in Pittsburgh ** was anyone there for the closing speech? * a license to hack on both the Perl 5 core (C) and core modules * xdg requested my assistance with ExtUtils::ParseXS ** a module which is little more than a wrapper around the xsubpp program written originally by Larry Wall ** doesn't work under 'use strict'; a model of Perl Worst Practices; but it works for what it does ** let's get it to run under 'use strict' and be better tested and more maintainable ** we'll need both blackbox and whitebox testing *** blackbox: Does any given revision of ParseXS.pm produce the same C output for a given input (modulo whitespace) -- where "given input" means "any .XS file currently in CPAN? Create a minicpan; identify all .XS files; understand how they're called by xsubpp, i.e., with what options; write script that compares "before" and "after" versions *** whitebox: phalanx it ** It's also apparent that 'perlxstut' is inadequate. At least one example only works on Linux (not even on Darwin). Other examples may be broken entirely. ** ParseXS is inadequately tested. We need to write dummy.XS files which display all of the different possibilities for parsing. To get there, we should go through 'perlxs' and annotate each paragraph with a test specification. *** Example: In the test suite there shall be a dummy.XS file that displays: SCOPE: ENABLED ** Once we have a complete test specification, then we (or the more XS-knowledgeable subset of 'we') can knock out the tests. From thakore.kartik at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 03:53:58 2009 From: thakore.kartik at gmail.com (Kartik Thakore) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:53:58 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Meeting Day Changes? Message-ID: Starting Sept 10th I have classes on Thursday nights. Are TPM meetings flexible? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olaf at vilerichard.com Fri Aug 28 05:28:46 2009 From: olaf at vilerichard.com (Olaf Alders) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:28:46 -0400 Subject: [tpm] Bullet Points from Tonight's TPM Presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F4A8AEB-80FE-4CCF-BFD4-691D8988F3FB@vilerichard.com> On 27-Aug-09, at 11:23 PM, James E Keenan wrote: > *** blackbox: Does any given revision of ParseXS.pm produce the > same C output for a given input (modulo whitespace) -- where "given > input" means "any .XS file currently in CPAN? Create a minicpan; > identify all .XS files; understand how they're called by xsubpp, > i.e., with what options; write script that compares "before" and > "after" versions As far as disk usage goes, my current minicpan shows: du -sh minicpan 1.1G minicpan So, it's much smaller than I actually thought it was. Getting it set up initially is actually quite simple. Something like this would put the files in /root/minicpan: /usr/local/bin/minicpan -l /root/minicpan -r ftp://CPAN.mirror.rafal.ca/pub/CPAN/ Olaf From fulko.hew at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 05:41:29 2009 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:41:29 -0400 Subject: [tpm] September lightning Talks (call for participation) Message-ID: <8204a4fe0908280541j5967e676v3990be306254048b@mail.gmail.com> Well another year has gone by, and so now is the time for another call for 'Lightning Talk' submissions for our Sept 24th meeting. All you have to do is talk for 5 minutes... ... 5 slides is the most it could need! OK, it might take you an hour to prepare... OK, as Damian once responded when I asked... 'Well it took me 5 years of learning to get to the point where I could do it in an hour' But don't let that discourage you. I've seen each of you talk before for 5 minutes without even taking a breath! Its not hard... I know you can do it... I just want you to do it formally, on a topic that may be borderline relate to Perl, and I'm asking you to do it in front of a small audience. And if you need more than 5 minutes, I thing that can be arranged if you ask nicely. :-) Is that too much to ask? No! To start the submission process I'll offer my own talk entitled: "Kevorkian'ing VMware" As your gong-master for this TPM session, please send your submissions to me (so I can sift through the hundreds of entries I hope to receive in the next few weeks and select the top 5 or 6 entertaining and informative entries). But seriously... I will accept anyone and everyone. So let those entries come flooding in! Fulko -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.s.doyle at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 06:26:46 2009 From: dave.s.doyle at gmail.com (Dave Doyle) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:26:46 -0400 Subject: [tpm] September lightning Talks (call for participation) In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe0908280541j5967e676v3990be306254048b@mail.gmail.com> References: <8204a4fe0908280541j5967e676v3990be306254048b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll throw in. I'll do a little talk on Padre: A Perl IDE... in Perl! Dave -- dave.s.doyle at gmail.com On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Fulko Hew wrote: > Well another year has gone by, and so now is the time for another call > for 'Lightning Talk' submissions for our Sept 24th meeting. > > All you have to do is talk for 5 minutes... > ... 5 slides is the most it could need! > OK, it might take you an hour to prepare... > OK, as Damian once responded when I asked... > 'Well it took me 5 years of learning to get to the point where I > could do it in an hour' > > But don't let that discourage you. > I've seen each of you talk before for 5 minutes without even taking a > breath! > Its not hard... I know you can do it... > I just want you to do it formally, on a topic that may be borderline > relate to Perl, and I'm asking you to do it in front of a small audience. > And if you need more than 5 minutes, I thing that can be arranged if you > ask nicely. :-) > > Is that too much to ask? No! > > To start the submission process I'll offer my own talk entitled: > > "Kevorkian'ing VMware" > > As your gong-master for this TPM session, please send your submissions > to me (so I can sift through the hundreds of entries I hope to receive > in the next few weeks and select the top 5 or 6 entertaining and > informative entries). > > But seriously... I will accept anyone and everyone. > So let those entries come flooding in! > > Fulko > > > > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antoniosun at lavabit.com Fri Aug 28 10:17:12 2009 From: antoniosun at lavabit.com (Antonio Sun) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:17:12 -0400 Subject: [tpm] September lightning Talks (call for participation) In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe0908280541j5967e676v3990be306254048b@mail.gmail.com> References: <8204a4fe0908280541j5967e676v3990be306254048b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If anyone is interested in virtualization, I can make a brief introduction. Here is the pitch: VMware, Xen, qemu, virtualbox, etc, Which virtualization is the best? My answer is KVM, if the box is less than 3~5 years old, and I'll talk about why and some "good" use of KVM. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Fulko Hew wrote: > . . . I just want you to do it formally, on a topic that may be borderline > relate to Perl. . . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fulko.hew at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 11:36:19 2009 From: fulko.hew at gmail.com (Fulko Hew) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:36:19 -0400 Subject: [tpm] anti-cubicle missile launcher Message-ID: <8204a4fe0908281136x61625494kf52290924b2c165b@mail.gmail.com> I can't remember who owned that missile launcher mentioned at last night's meeting, but would you consider doing a lightning talk/demo on the Perl interface and your control software? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux at alteeve.com Sat Aug 29 10:01:04 2009 From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:01:04 -0400 Subject: [tpm] testing; using eval to catch an error in a module Message-ID: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've been working on a test script for my module suite/hobby and I've been having a bit of trouble. I want to trap errors in the module without killing the test script. I was hoping I could do something like: eval { $an->foo("some Illegal arg"); } if ($@) { print "The module 'die'ed as planned and emitted error: [$@]\n"; } else { die "Testing of module death failed as [$@] wasn't set.\n"; } I think this is because it's not a compile time error, but the perldoc for eval shows trapping for a divide by zero error, which as I understand it would trigger on execution, not compile. Am I missing something fundamental? Should I be approaching my testing in a different way? I'm sorry is this is a simple question... I've been trying to make sure I've got a good handle on a lot of perl topics recently and am starting to get a wee blender-brain. Thanks! Madi From adam.prime at utoronto.ca Sat Aug 29 10:11:23 2009 From: adam.prime at utoronto.ca (Adam Prime) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:11:23 -0400 Subject: [tpm] testing; using eval to catch an error in a module In-Reply-To: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> References: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A99613B.7080206@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been working on a test script for my module suite/hobby and I've > been having a bit of trouble. I want to trap errors in the module > without killing the test script. I was hoping I could do something like: > > eval { > $an->foo("some Illegal arg"); > } > if ($@) > { > print "The module 'die'ed as planned and emitted error: [$@]\n"; > } > else > { > die "Testing of module death failed as [$@] wasn't set.\n"; > } That seems like it should work, provided that whatever your $an is actually die's if it's given an illegal argument. > > I think this is because it's not a compile time error, but the perldoc > for eval shows trapping for a divide by zero error, which as I > understand it would trigger on execution, not compile. > > Am I missing something fundamental? Should I be approaching my testing > in a different way? It doesn't look like you're using any of the existing perl testing stuff, which i'd recommend. I'm not all that familiar with it myself, but i know that michael went to schwern's testing workshop at yapc this year, so he might be able to point you to some good starting points. this seems like it might be a decent start though: http://books.google.ca/books?id=o9xWJtvhVZ4C&dq=perl+testing Adam From linux at alteeve.com Sat Aug 29 11:22:34 2009 From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:22:34 -0400 Subject: [tpm] testing; using eval to catch an error in a module In-Reply-To: <4A99613B.7080206@utoronto.ca> References: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> <4A99613B.7080206@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4A9971EA.8010206@alteeve.com> Adam Prime wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've been working on a test script for my module suite/hobby and >> I've been having a bit of trouble. I want to trap errors in the module >> without killing the test script. I was hoping I could do something like: >> >> eval { >> $an->foo("some Illegal arg"); >> } >> if ($@) >> { >> print "The module 'die'ed as planned and emitted error: [$@]\n"; >> } >> else >> { >> die "Testing of module death failed as [$@] wasn't set.\n"; >> } > > That seems like it should work, provided that whatever your $an is > actually die's if it's given an illegal argument. $an is a handle to my module. The method called (foo) checks the sanity of the argument and 'die's if it's illegal. It does this using an internal error handling method that calls the actual die. In practice, the test.pl script exits at that point. =/ >> I think this is because it's not a compile time error, but the perldoc >> for eval shows trapping for a divide by zero error, which as I >> understand it would trigger on execution, not compile. >> >> Am I missing something fundamental? Should I be approaching my testing >> in a different way? > > It doesn't look like you're using any of the existing perl testing > stuff, which i'd recommend. I'm not all that familiar with it myself, > but i know that michael went to schwern's testing workshop at yapc this > year, so he might be able to point you to some good starting points. > > this seems like it might be a decent start though: > > http://books.google.ca/books?id=o9xWJtvhVZ4C&dq=perl+testing I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it the "proper" way, but my Googling hasn't yielded much yet. The most I've been able to gather so far is that the "normal" way is to have a 't' directory and in there have a 'test.pl' that 'make install' can call. At this point though, I've not really worried about having a Makefile.pl, but I'm hoping I'll have it structured well enough that I can, pardon the pun, make it later. I know, I know, I should do it all now. This is my first real stab at a totally properly built module (dedicated PODs, testable, object oriented... I am a little overwhelmed with my little learning project as it is. :) Thanks for that link, it looks good. A few years out now, but I don't suspect that testing is a rapidly changing topic. :) Madi From magog at the-wire.com Sat Aug 29 11:33:42 2009 From: magog at the-wire.com (Michael Graham) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:33:42 -0400 Subject: [tpm] testing; using eval to catch an error in a module In-Reply-To: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> References: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090829143342.55ab4008@caliope> If you're trying to catch compile-time errors, you need to wrap the 'use' or 'require' in an eval as well: BEGIN { eval { require Some::Module; }; if ($@) { print "The module could not be loaded: $@\n"; } } Perl has a highly evolved testing culture, and there are lots of test-related modules on CPAN. You'll be better off in the long run if you learn how to do standard Perl testing, than if you reinvent the wheel with one-off testing scripts. The basic testing module is Test::More. If you learn nothing else, learn how to use Test::More. Here's an (untested) Test::More-based script that does what you're doing by hand: #!/usr/bin/perl # save this as test.t use Test::More; BEGIN { use_ok('Some::Module'); } eval { $an->foo("some Illegal arg"); }; my $e = $@; ok($e, "The module 'die'ed as planned and emitted error: $e"); done_testing(); You run this with: $ prove test.t There are other modules that add syntactic sugar for specific testing scenarios. In your case, you might look at Test::Exception: #!/usr/bin/perl use Test::Exception; BEGIN { use_ok('Some::Module'); } throws_ok { $an->foo("some Illegal arg") } qr/that's an Illegal arg, you insensitive clod!/, "The module 'die'ed as planned and emitted an error"; done_testing(); Michael On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:01:04 -0400 Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been working on a test script for my module suite/hobby and > I've been having a bit of trouble. I want to trap errors in the > module without killing the test script. I was hoping I could do > something like: > > eval { > $an->foo("some Illegal arg"); > } > if ($@) > { > print "The module 'die'ed as planned and emitted error: > [$@]\n"; } > else > { > die "Testing of module death failed as [$@] wasn't set.\n"; > } > > I think this is because it's not a compile time error, but the > perldoc for eval shows trapping for a divide by zero error, which as > I understand it would trigger on execution, not compile. > > Am I missing something fundamental? Should I be approaching my > testing in a different way? > > I'm sorry is this is a simple question... I've been trying to make > sure I've got a good handle on a lot of perl topics recently and am > starting to get a wee blender-brain. > > Thanks! > > Madi > _______________________________________________ > toronto-pm mailing list > toronto-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/toronto-pm From magog at the-wire.com Sat Aug 29 12:14:50 2009 From: magog at the-wire.com (Michael Graham) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:14:50 -0400 Subject: [tpm] testing; using eval to catch an error in a module In-Reply-To: <4A9971EA.8010206@alteeve.com> References: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> <4A99613B.7080206@utoronto.ca> <4A9971EA.8010206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090829151450.072a4dce@caliope> > I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it the "proper" way, but my Googling > hasn't yielded much yet. The most I've been able to gather so far is > that the "normal" way is to have a 't' directory and in there have a > 'test.pl' that 'make install' can call. Well, it is true that "make test" will indeed run your module's test suite. But honestly, that's not the main reason to do things The Right Way (tm) instead of the Hacky Handmade Way (tm). The advantages to doing standard Perl testing are: * your tests will be easier to write * your tests will be more concise * your tests will be more maintainable * your tests will make sense to other people * you can do more sophisticated testing more quickly (e.g. with Test::Deep, Test::MockObject, etc.) * you can get Test coverage with Devel::Cover * you can make a web-based dashboard of your test results by running your tests automatically on an hourly schedule and importing them into Smolder. Imagine setting off alarm bells right after you break your code, instead of discovering the problem three weeks later when you finally decide to run your test suite again! To get started, check out the following docs: Test::Tutorial: http://search.cpan.org/~rgarcia/perl-5.10.0/lib/Test/Tutorial.pod prove http://search.cpan.org/~andya/Test-Harness-3.17/bin/prove Test::More: http://search.cpan.org/~mschwern/Test-Simple-0.92/lib/Test/More.pm Michael From linux at alteeve.com Sat Aug 29 12:20:22 2009 From: linux at alteeve.com (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:20:22 -0400 Subject: [tpm] testing; using eval to catch an error in a module In-Reply-To: <20090829151450.072a4dce@caliope> References: <4A995ED0.1020708@alteeve.com> <4A99613B.7080206@utoronto.ca> <4A9971EA.8010206@alteeve.com> <20090829151450.072a4dce@caliope> Message-ID: <4A997F76.2050709@alteeve.com> Michael Graham wrote: >> I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it the "proper" way, but my Googling >> hasn't yielded much yet. The most I've been able to gather so far is >> that the "normal" way is to have a 't' directory and in there have a >> 'test.pl' that 'make install' can call. > > Well, it is true that "make test" will indeed run your module's test > suite. But honestly, that's not the main reason to do things The > Right Way (tm) instead of the Hacky Handmade Way (tm). > > The advantages to doing standard Perl testing are: > > * your tests will be easier to write > > * your tests will be more concise > > * your tests will be more maintainable > > * your tests will make sense to other people > > * you can do more sophisticated testing more quickly (e.g. with > Test::Deep, Test::MockObject, etc.) > > * you can get Test coverage with Devel::Cover > > * you can make a web-based dashboard of your test results by > running your tests automatically on an hourly schedule and > importing them into Smolder. > > Imagine setting off alarm bells right after you break > your code, instead of discovering the problem three weeks later > when you finally decide to run your test suite again! > > To get started, check out the following docs: > > Test::Tutorial: > http://search.cpan.org/~rgarcia/perl-5.10.0/lib/Test/Tutorial.pod > > prove > http://search.cpan.org/~andya/Test-Harness-3.17/bin/prove > > Test::More: > http://search.cpan.org/~mschwern/Test-Simple-0.92/lib/Test/More.pm > > > > > Michael Thanks Michael! I've been reading Test::More since you sent your first email. I'll read up on those links, too. I figured I was starting to re-invent the wheel, which is why I asked. I knew there had to be a better/existing way to do this. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Madi From arocker at vex.net Mon Aug 31 12:20:57 2009 From: arocker at vex.net (arocker at vex.net) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tpm] JBoss information sought Message-ID: Can anybody point me at a good source of conceptual information about JBoss? I'm especially interested in error-handling, both from the applications it runs, and JBoss itself. I'm writing scripts that move around data on which Java applications can chew. I would like mechanisms to detect when things die unexpectedly, preferably more sophisticated (and earlier) than stumbling over the corpse the next day.