From iheffner at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 08:40:13 2012 From: iheffner at gmail.com (Ivan Heffner) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:40:13 -0700 Subject: SPUG: self-study recommendations? In-Reply-To: <505BE4FD.9010406@gmail.com> References: <505A328F.10506@gmail.com> <505BE26D.7040307@cpan.org> <505BE4FD.9010406@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm not immediately familiar with _Intermediate Perl_ or _Modern Perl_, several years back, I picked up _Perl Objects, Modules, & References_ < http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596004781.do> and would recommend it as a next step after _Learning Perl_. Ivan On Thursday, September 20, 2012, Chad Cassady wrote: > Thanks guys. This rocks. > > Chad > > On 09/20/2012 08:43 PM, Thomas Sibley wrote: > >> On 09/19/2012 02:01 PM, Chad Cassady wrote: >> >>> Perl is my first language, and I started learning it September 1st. >>> >> Welcome! Perl is a great first language. >> >> My question is, where do I go after /Learning Perl/, and more >>> importantly, at what point do I start telling prospective employers that >>> I am competent with perl? I need a rubric. My current plan is just to go >>> through /Intermediate Perl/ and then write something cool. >>> >> /Modern Perl/ is a very good suggestion from Noah. >> >> Just a start at what to dig into next: >> >> * CPAN: http://metacpan.org and http://search.cpan.org >> * cpanm: using CPAN >> * Moose: (post)modern object system >> >> Does /Learning Perl/ cover objects? If not, Intermediate should. It's >> certainly worth grokking classic (non-Moose) objects in Perl. >> >> * http://www.perl.org/learn.html >> * perlbrew: staying up to date with new Perl releases >> * perldoc + Pod::Cpandoc for seamless reading of module doc you don't >> have installed (yet!) >> >> Hopefully that helps point you in the next direction a bit. Scratching >> an itch (aka writing something cool ;-) is often a good way to explore a >> language and tends to find more motivation than, say, trolling the bug >> tracker for random bugs to fix. >> >> Cheers, >> Thomas >> ______________________________**______________________________**_ >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org >> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/spug-list >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays >> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ >> > > ______________________________**______________________________**_ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jarich at perltraining.com.au Wed Oct 3 03:45:12 2012 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:45:12 +1000 Subject: SPUG: self-study recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <505A328F.10506@gmail.com> <505BE26D.7040307@cpan.org> <505BE4FD.9010406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <506C1738.5030707@perltraining.com.au> On 02/10/12 01:40, Ivan Heffner wrote: > I'm not immediately familiar with _Intermediate Perl_ or _Modern > Perl_, several years back, I picked up _Perl Objects, Modules, & > References_ and > would recommend it as a next step after _Learning Perl_. I'm pretty sure that "Intermediate Perl" is the new PORM. There's also "Mastering Perl" by the same authors and collaboration to fill out the set. Another good option is Effective Perl Programming, which has a lot of lovely recipes and hints in it. Of course, I should recommend that my business' course notes are available for free at http://perltraining.com.au/notes/ so you might find some material there worthwhile too. I also recommend checking out the tutorial section on http://perlmonks.org The site can run a little slow sometimes, but the tutorials are gold. J From dha at panix.com Wed Oct 3 04:11:50 2012 From: dha at panix.com (David H. Adler) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 07:11:50 -0400 Subject: SPUG: self-study recommendations? In-Reply-To: <506C1738.5030707@perltraining.com.au> References: <505A328F.10506@gmail.com> <505BE26D.7040307@cpan.org> <505BE4FD.9010406@gmail.com> <506C1738.5030707@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <20121003111149.GA17452@panix.com> On Wed, Oct 03, 2012 at 08:45:12PM +1000, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > On 02/10/12 01:40, Ivan Heffner wrote: > >I'm not immediately familiar with _Intermediate Perl_ or _Modern > >Perl_, several years back, I picked up _Perl Objects, Modules, & > >References_ and > >would recommend it as a next step after _Learning Perl_. > > I'm pretty sure that "Intermediate Perl" is the new PORM. There's > also "Mastering Perl" by the same authors and collaboration to fill > out the set. I am absolutely sure that it's the new PORM. In fact, I may have even tech edited an earlier edition. It is intended to fill the space PORM had, but now fits more neatly into the Learning Perl, Intermediate Perl, Mastering Perl title model. > Another good option is Effective Perl Programming, which has a lot > of lovely recipes and hints in it. Agreed. The 2nd edition is more up to date and somewhat different than the original. The first edition is probably still an interesting read, but in practical terms, go for the 2nd. dha -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Your question doesn't make any sense. You might as well ask whether it is possible to grow vegetables from a painting, without becoming Wednesday first. - Abigail, c.l.p.misc From jarich at perltraining.com.au Wed Oct 3 16:24:10 2012 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:24:10 +1000 Subject: SPUG: self-study recommendations? In-Reply-To: <506C1738.5030707@perltraining.com.au> References: <505A328F.10506@gmail.com> <505BE26D.7040307@cpan.org> <505BE4FD.9010406@gmail.com> <506C1738.5030707@perltraining.com.au> Message-ID: <506CC91A.4000300@perltraining.com.au> On 03/10/12 20:45, Jacinta Richardson wrote: > > Of course, I should recommend that my business' course notes are > available for free at http://perltraining.com.au/notes/ I had a moment of vague. This link should be: http://perltraining.com.au/notes.html Thank you to Paul P. Cook for pointing out my error. J From augustinablair at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 13:38:15 2012 From: augustinablair at gmail.com (Augustina Blair) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 16:38:15 -0400 Subject: SPUG: self-study recommendations? In-Reply-To: <505A328F.10506@gmail.com> References: <505A328F.10506@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you are new to programming, I would definitely check out the book Land of Lisp. There are things in that book I wish I had learned early on in my programming career. Also Learn You A Haskell for a Great Good is pretty good as well but I haven't finished it yet. I know it's not specifically Perl but Perl lends itself well to functional programming methodology and it's good to learn that paradigm :) Otherwise, I recommend the classic Camel book "Programming Perl". I still revisit it and learn new things! Finally, I highly recommend you look into finding a module on CPAN that looks interesting to contribute to. Participating in that sort of project helps you to learn more about Perl and to get more involved with the community. Just off the top of my head, metacpan and Dancer are recent ones that have been actively looking for contributors, as well Moose is always looking for participants. The Perl community is super nice, feel free to hop on any of those irc channels, details are at http://www.metacpan.org (btw, if you're not using cpanm or metacpan you should be!!) Auggy On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Chad Cassady wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Had a lovely time at last night's meeting, the talk was informative and > everybody was very nice to the new guy. There was also free cola and an > excellent view. > > I have a question: > > Perl is my first language, and I started learning it September 1st. I'm > working through the O'Reilly book Learning Perl. I just got done with > Chapter 8, so I've (hopefully) learned the syntax of perl, how to work with > loops and subroutines, hashes, arrays, and scalars, and some > idioms/shortcuts. Chapters 7 and 8 were devoted to regular expressions. > There's one more chapter playing with regexes, then some more control > structures (some of which I've already dabbled with after cruising the > documentation) and the rest seems to deal with having perl do things to the > system - file, directory, and process operations (in conjunction with more > pattern matching to make it more powerful). > > My question is, where do I go after Learning Perl, and more importantly, at > what point do I start telling prospective employers that I am competent with > perl? I need a rubric. My current plan is just to go through Intermediate > Perl and then write something cool. > > If anybody wants to look at my perl landing maneuvers and offer constructive > criticism, I'm on github.com/beatboxchad. Don't go easy. I'm a quick study. > No pain, no gain, right? > > Thanks, > > Chad > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ From scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net Mon Oct 22 08:34:05 2012 From: scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net (scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:34:05 -0500 Subject: SPUG: New to SPUG Message-ID: <859234e9b8ffdafd15ea046c5b717420@twistedevolution.net> Greetings yall, I am new to SPUG but not new to Perl. I have spent many years tinkering with IRC Bots, POE and Net-IRC. My goal is to become well versed in Perl and become a "Professional". I am currently studying perl at home. Looking forward to learning from yall. Have agreat day. ~ Scott From cmeyer at helvella.org Tue Oct 23 09:50:26 2012 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:50:26 -0700 Subject: SPUG: New to SPUG In-Reply-To: <859234e9b8ffdafd15ea046c5b717420@twistedevolution.net> References: <859234e9b8ffdafd15ea046c5b717420@twistedevolution.net> Message-ID: Hi Scott, If you like IRC, please join #spug on irc.perl.org. I'd be curious to hear about your experience with async programming in POE. The little bit that I've played with that framework, I found it to be somewhat painful. That was a number of years ago, perhaps it's evolved for the better. -Colin. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:34 AM, wrote: > Greetings yall, > > I am new to SPUG but not new to Perl. I have spent many years tinkering > with IRC Bots, POE and Net-IRC. My goal is to become well versed in Perl > and become a "Professional". I am currently studying perl at home. Looking > forward to learning from yall. Have agreat day. > > ~ Scott > ______________________________**______________________________**_ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanc at greengrey.org Tue Oct 23 11:08:14 2012 From: ryanc at greengrey.org (Ryan Corder) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:08:14 -0700 Subject: SPUG: New to SPUG In-Reply-To: References: <859234e9b8ffdafd15ea046c5b717420@twistedevolution.net> Message-ID: <20121023180814.GA12117@greengrey.org> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 09:50:26AM -0700, Colin Meyer wrote: | I'd be curious to hear about your experience with async programming in POE. | The little bit that I've played with that framework, I found it to be | somewhat painful. That was a number of years ago, perhaps it's evolved for | the better. Not that you asked, but I find AnyEvent to be much less painful in regards to async programming. I haven't worked on it in a number of months (although I really need to), I wrote a Kerberized netcat in Perl using AnyEvent. If you are at all curious, the code is out on github: https://github.com/rcorder/knc Cheers. ryanc -- http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=ryanc%40greengrey.org From tyler at seraph-net.net Fri Oct 26 13:16:34 2012 From: tyler at seraph-net.net (Tyler Hardison) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 13:16:34 -0700 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers Message-ID: So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as those out of the evil empire?. Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing title: Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. Understands threads. Uses Moose. Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. Understands Agile. etc. --t From jeff.d.almeida at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 14:39:08 2012 From: jeff.d.almeida at gmail.com (Jeff Almeida) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:39:08 -0700 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds a lot like a gig a few years ago where my title was "Emperor Penguin." :D Jeff Almeida - Seattle Sent from my phone On Oct 26, 2012 1:16 PM, "Tyler Hardison" wrote: > So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly > if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? > > Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as > those out of the evil empire?. > > Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing title: > > Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) > Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. > Understands threads. > Uses Moose. > Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. > Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. > Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. > Understands Agile. > etc. > > --t > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skylos at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 15:42:19 2012 From: skylos at gmail.com (Skylos) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:42:19 -0400 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They give me the title 'Senior Application Engineer' - sounds like you could be similar. David On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Tyler Hardison wrote: > So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly > if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? > > Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as > those out of the evil empire?. > > Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing title: > > Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) > Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. > Understands threads. > Uses Moose. > Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. > Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. > Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. > Understands Agile. > etc. > > --t -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From twists at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 08:13:47 2012 From: twists at gmail.com (Joshua ben Jore) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 10:13:47 -0500 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Most places I know just call this sort of beast a "Software Engineer." Amazon will stuff it up a bit with "Software Development Engineer." Josh On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Tyler Hardison wrote: > So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly > if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? > > Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as > those out of the evil empire?. > > Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing title: > > Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) > Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. > Understands threads. > Uses Moose. > Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. > Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. > Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. > Understands Agile. > etc. > > --t > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ From tallpeak at hotmail.com Sat Oct 27 13:19:11 2012 From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron West) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:19:11 -0700 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Database Developer/Reporting" according to my agency. "Data Analyst" according to my coworker, who's been trying to keep me in-line... I use using Perl and Oracle these past two weeks. (Haven't done much but setup stuff and complain about how badly written the old perl modules are and how confusing the database is). I've been bragging to the best Perl programmer in the area at work (I'm guessing) that I've not been sure whether I'm a perl-fan so much anymore these last few years, preferring instead to have a fascination with functional programming languages (eg. OCaml, F#, Haskell, Haxe, Scala, maybe Erlang, Clean-language, ATS), but that is a sort of programming idealism that is hard to explain to people at work. Essentially, I think software should be as close as possible to "provably-correct" or even proven-correct (as in the seL4 Linux-like "verified" operating-system kernel, http://www.ertos.nicta.com.au/research/sel4/ ), and I think strong-typing and rich type-systems like Haskell's are a step in the direction of development of such software. But programming-language idealism aside, Perl is very utilitarian, and may be the best tool for the job of running ad-hoc and scheduled reports against databases in a minimal amount of code, so I've been finally learning some basics that I've ignored in the past, like how to use packages and modules, and objects. I know, "duh! How could you call yourself a perl programmer if you don't know those basics?" Well, I wrote Streetpulse's import system in Perl in 2005, and a couple of scripts a few hundred lines long with very little to no modularization were far superior to the old ColdFusion scripts, so it worked well enough for my needs without knowing/using o-o or packages/modules. As for o-o perl, the idea of blessing a hashtable to magically turn it into an object has felt rather foreign to me. Perhaps I should be using Moose just to give any classes I may create a consistent declaration structure... I suppose if I want to be a programming-language idealist, I should install Perl 6 (Rakudo) and start using that. I've installed it, but probably won't use it in the immediate future. I don't know who is going to take the plunge and actually adopt Perl6 in a substantial way, but I suppose it could achieve critical mass sometime in the next few years. I think it may take either adding a few killer features or developing some killer libraries that actually need Perl6 features, before serious adoption begins. For example, some sort of object/relational database interface, or a language-integrated query like LINQ or perhaps like HaskellDB. I think important parts of future software will be higher levels of abstraction and virtualization of services, and the database-interface should be abstracted-away as much as possible. I think Haskell might be usable to develop efficient multicore software. But again, programming-language idealism aside, Perl is very utilitarian and I'm enjoying getting back to doing a little of it. Hopefully I'll pick up some speed, and though I have never yet been what I would term a prolific coder, I'd like to approach that goal now. Perhaps if I design my vision for a reporting system for my department completely-enough up-front then I'll have something very usable in a few months, with a moderately-sized code-base. Maybe I'll even read a few books (for a change) to help develop some coding styles. I want to use a combination of functional and some O-O coding styles, and ideally design a DSL or some high-level perl modules. One thing I think I'll want to do is abstract away the joins in the database, because it seems to be overly hard to construct queries due to a set of awkward relationship tables. Eventually I want to work on ERP and/or workflow software. implementation and/or integration... this is related to an idea I've had for over a year, but that's another story... (I might) Consider Clean-Language's workflow system as a possible model to imitate or start with. http://wiki.clean.cs.ru.nl/Clean iTask I was thinking, for example, how when I join a company through an agency, I may have to use 2 or more time-recording (timesheet) tools, and how workflow management system and client application could eliminate that necessity. On 10/27/2012 8:13 AM, Joshua ben Jore wrote: > Most places I know just call this sort of beast a "Software Engineer." > Amazon will stuff it up a bit with "Software Development Engineer." > > Josh > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Tyler Hardison wrote: >> So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly >> if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? >> >> Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as >> those out of the evil empire?. >> >> Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing title: >> >> Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) >> Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. >> Understands threads. >> Uses Moose. >> Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. >> Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. >> Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. >> Understands Agile. >> etc. >> >> --t >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org >> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays >> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tallpeak.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 120 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net Sat Oct 27 10:42:40 2012 From: scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net (scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 12:42:40 -0500 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2c69906c19fb27a005cba6e061fa2817@twistedevolution.net> On 2012-10-27 10:13, Joshua ben Jore wrote: > Most places I know just call this sort of beast a "Software > Engineer." > Amazon will stuff it up a bit with "Software Development Engineer." > > Josh > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Tyler Hardison > wrote: >> So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. >> Particularly >> if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? >> >> Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such >> as Here in the Army they are known as Software Engineers although the Army refuses to use Linux. -- S >> those out of the evil empire?. >> >> Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing >> title: >> >> Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) >> Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. >> Understands threads. >> Uses Moose. >> Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. >> Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. >> Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. >> Understands Agile. >> etc. >> >> --t >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org >> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays >> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ From seaperldev at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 08:55:07 2012 From: seaperldev at gmail.com (Craig Steffler) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:55:07 -0700 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: <2c69906c19fb27a005cba6e061fa2817@twistedevolution.net> References: <2c69906c19fb27a005cba6e061fa2817@twistedevolution.net> Message-ID: Funny, usually the only real practical use for a job title is to include it on a business card and in most cases I've been the one who chose what to use. Whether it's Perl Developer, Perl Software Engineer, Software Engineer, Sr. Software Engineer, Sr. Software Hacker or whatever you're called by others the choice is pretty much whatever you feel comfortable with. On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 10:42 AM, wrote: > On 2012-10-27 10:13, Joshua ben Jore wrote: > >> Most places I know just call this sort of beast a "Software Engineer." >> Amazon will stuff it up a bit with "Software Development Engineer." >> >> Josh >> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Tyler Hardison >> wrote: >> >>> So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly >>> if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? >>> >>> Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as >>> >> Here in the Army they are known as Software Engineers although the Army > refuses to use Linux. > > -- S > > > > those out of the evil empire?. >>> >>> Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing >>> title: >>> >>> Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) >>> Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. >>> Understands threads. >>> Uses Moose. >>> Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. >>> Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. >>> Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. >>> Understands Agile. >>> etc. >>> >>> --t >>> ______________________________**______________________________**_ >>> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >>> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org >>> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/spug-list >>> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays >>> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ >>> >> ______________________________**______________________________**_ >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org >> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/spug-list >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays >> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ >> > > ______________________________**______________________________**_ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/**listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > -- Craig Steffler 425-433-8482 Sr. Software Engineer - Perl/Ruby on Rails/PHP - The secret of happiness is low expectations - Barry Schwartz - The Paradox of Choice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kesteb at wsipc.org Mon Oct 29 09:34:39 2012 From: kesteb at wsipc.org (Kevin Esteb) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:34:39 -0700 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: References: <2c69906c19fb27a005cba6e061fa2817@twistedevolution.net> Message-ID: <2C4D2F304C57FB4EB05DF8A079E1BD260907B4D39F@lan-srv-exch02.wsipc.org> Job titles are interesting. I have been doing this job for a long time. At one time I was a "Programmer Analyst". My job was to write programs and all the surrounding operations code to the make the program run. At another time I was a "System Administrator". The job was still the same, now, I am apparently an "Systems Engineer". The job hasn't changed much with the title change. Job titles do have meaning with HR departments. Usually the pay scale is attached to the job title and usually HR departments like industry standards for job titles. Mostly so they can say they are paying 80% of the going rate for whatever industry you happen to be in. This has the tendency of quelling those pesky request for raises. I am sure the HR departments don't have an idea on what to pay a "Sr. Software Hacker', but they do for a 'Systems Engineer'. From: spug-list [mailto:spug-list-bounces+kesteb=wsipc.org at pm.org] On Behalf Of Craig Steffler Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 8:55 AM To: scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net Cc: spug-list at pm.org Subject: Re: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers Funny, usually the only real practical use for a job title is to include it on a business card and in most cases I've been the one who chose what to use. Whether it's Perl Developer, Perl Software Engineer, Software Engineer, Sr. Software Engineer, Sr. Software Hacker or whatever you're called by others the choice is pretty much whatever you feel comfortable with. On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 10:42 AM, > wrote: On 2012-10-27 10:13, Joshua ben Jore wrote: Most places I know just call this sort of beast a "Software Engineer." Amazon will stuff it up a bit with "Software Development Engineer." Josh On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Tyler Hardison > wrote: So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as Here in the Army they are known as Software Engineers although the Army refuses to use Linux. -- S those out of the evil empire(r). Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing title: Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. Understands threads. Uses Moose. Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. Understands Agile. etc. --t _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list at pm.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list at pm.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list at pm.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ -- Craig Steffler 425-433-8482 Sr. Software Engineer - Perl/Ruby on Rails/PHP - The secret of happiness is low expectations - Barry Schwartz - The Paradox of Choice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.d.almeida at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 10:14:59 2012 From: jeff.d.almeida at gmail.com (Jeff Almeida) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:14:59 -0700 Subject: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers In-Reply-To: <2C4D2F304C57FB4EB05DF8A079E1BD260907B4D39F@lan-srv-exch02.wsipc.org> References: <2c69906c19fb27a005cba6e061fa2817@twistedevolution.net> <2C4D2F304C57FB4EB05DF8A079E1BD260907B4D39F@lan-srv-exch02.wsipc.org> Message-ID: Or more importantly perhaps, to contribute to the definition of 95% of market for the anti-undercutting rules surrounding H-1 visas. Much as I've loved creative titles in the past, I came to realize they don't do us any favors as industry professionals relative to what protections are afforded within the current regulatory framework.... ;) Jeff Almeida - Seattle Sent from my phone On Oct 29, 2012 9:35 AM, "Kevin Esteb" wrote: > Job titles are interesting. I have been doing this job for a long time. At > one time I was a ?Programmer Analyst?. My job was to write programs and all > the surrounding operations code to the make the program run. At another > time I was a ?System Administrator?. The job was still the same, now, I am > apparently an ?Systems Engineer?. The job hasn?t changed much with the > title change.**** > > ** ** > > Job titles do have meaning with HR departments. Usually the pay scale is > attached to the job title and usually HR departments like industry > standards for job titles. Mostly so they can say they are paying 80% of the > going rate for whatever industry you happen to be in. This has the tendency > of quelling those pesky request for raises. I am sure the HR departments > don?t have an idea on what to pay a ?Sr. Software Hacker?, but they do for > a ?Systems Engineer?.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* spug-list [mailto:spug-list-bounces+kesteb=wsipc.org at pm.org] *On > Behalf Of *Craig Steffler > *Sent:* Monday, October 29, 2012 8:55 AM > *To:* scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net > *Cc:* spug-list at pm.org > *Subject:* Re: SPUG: Job Titles for Perl (and more) Programmers**** > > ** ** > > Funny, usually the only real practical use for a job title is to include > it on a business card and in most cases I've been the one who chose what to > use. Whether it's Perl Developer, Perl Software Engineer, Software > Engineer, Sr. Software Engineer, Sr. Software Hacker or whatever you're > called by others the choice is pretty much whatever you feel comfortable > with.**** > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 10:42 AM, > wrote:**** > > On 2012-10-27 10:13, Joshua ben Jore wrote:**** > > Most places I know just call this sort of beast a "Software Engineer." > Amazon will stuff it up a bit with "Software Development Engineer." > > Josh > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Tyler Hardison > wrote:**** > > So I'm trying to get a poll of what people's titles are. Particularly > if they're primarily working in Perl, SQL, Web, and engineering? > > Even more helpful if you're forced to work in other languages such as**** > > Here in the Army they are known as Software Engineers although the Army > refuses to use Linux. > > -- S**** > > > > **** > > those out of the evil empire?. > > Mainly I guess I'm trying to define what I do in an all encompassing title: > > Linux SysAdmin (Only as needed for setting up dev environments) > Can compile Perl from scratch as needed. > Understands threads. > Uses Moose. > Can whip up a Dancer app front-ended by nginx for SSL. > Can debug a .NET app if I'm help at gunpoint. > Can take a spec from a customer and wow them. > Understands Agile. > etc. > > --t > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/**** > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/**** > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/**** > > > > **** > > ** ** > > -- > Craig Steffler > 425-433-8482 > Sr. Software Engineer - Perl/Ruby on Rails/PHP > > - The secret of happiness is low expectations - Barry Schwartz - The > Paradox of Choice**** > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net Tue Oct 30 20:42:45 2012 From: scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net (scott.cilley at twistedevolution.net) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:42:45 -0500 Subject: SPUG: Perl IRC Developers Message-ID: <05bcbe01c651db5f9603fb15c0912afe@twistedevolution.net> Hey yall, Just wanted to let yall know that I have an IRC server running in house on a very powerful server. If you write IRC Bots I invite you to use our server to test with. There is no web interface just the server irc.twistedevolution.net Join #TE while Your connected, drop in and say hello... Server is Unreal 3.2 with srsv Services running. ~ Scott