From lmzaldivar at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 16:41:19 2005
From: lmzaldivar at gmail.com (Luis Medrano Zaldivar)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:41:19 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Sending HTML code using RPC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1128193229.28775.spug-list@pm.org>
Message-ID: <4341c15d.40471365.1ca4.ffffca04@mx.gmail.com>

Hey Gang,

I'm using "Frontier::Client" to make RPC call but I'm trying to send html
code and I can sent it but the RPC server it takes out all the html code.
For example:

<param><value><string><h1>Hey this me</h1> </string></value> </param>

The RPC server takes out all the <h1> and </h1>. Any idea why this is
happening. Do I need to do something special so this can work?

Thanks,
Luis


From cwilkes-spug at ladro.com  Tue Oct  4 06:01:09 2005
From: cwilkes-spug at ladro.com (Chris Wilkes)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 06:01:09 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Sending HTML code using RPC
In-Reply-To: <4341c15d.40471365.1ca4.ffffca04@mx.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.21.1128193229.28775.spug-list@pm.org>
	<4341c15d.40471365.1ca4.ffffca04@mx.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051004130109.GA24286@chisq.ladro.com>

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 04:41:19PM -0700, Luis Medrano Zaldivar wrote:
> Hey Gang,
> 
> I'm using "Frontier::Client" to make RPC call but I'm trying to send html
> code and I can sent it but the RPC server it takes out all the html code.
> For example:
> 
> <param><value><string><h1>Hey this me</h1> </string></value> </param>
> 
> The RPC server takes out all the <h1> and </h1>. Any idea why this is
> happening. Do I need to do something special so this can work?

Try encoding the < and > marks as
  < &lt;
  > &gt;
and see if that makes it through.  You could also try wrapping that
entire segment in a CDATA tag.

Keep in mind that you'll probably have to un-encode "&lt;h1&gt;" to
"<h1>" on the server side.

Chris

From tim at consultix-inc.com  Tue Oct  4 08:09:14 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:09:14 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Tim Maher speaking to GSLUG, 10/8
Message-ID: <20051004150914.GA27975@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

Fellow SPUGsters,

Just a quick note to inform you that I'll be giving a 2-hour talk on
my "Minimal Perl" approach to learning Perl this Saturday, at 10am,
at North Seattle Community College, through GSLUG.  There's no charge,
and all are welcome.

I've attached a preliminary announcement below, but watch
http://wiki.gslug.org/index.php/MinimalPerlTalk for additional
details (including directions to the meeting room), when GSLUG
officials make them available.

By the way, I'm also offering a 4.5-day Perl/CGI class in Kirkland
in mid-November, which is described at http://TeachMePerl.com/sched.html.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

Speaker:
        Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix 
Talk:
        "Minimal Perl for UNIX and Linux People"

ABSTRACT:

Perl is one of the most expressive, powerful, versatile, OS-
portable, and /fun/ languages for general purpose programming,
and certainly one of the best choices for applications involving
text, HTML, or XML processing, and CGI or Database programming.
HOWEVER, the language as it is generally taught is overly complex
and confusing, being replete with many redundant and esoteric
features that can confuse and discourage programmers. This talk
teaches UNIX/Linux people to program in a strategically crafted
/subset/ of Perl, developed through 6 years of work with corporate
engineers. It pares down the language to an easily learned and
sensible set of core features, which are easily assimilated because
they capitalize on the learner's existing knowledge of key
UNIX/Linux concepts and commands that are shared by Perl.


ABOUT THE TALK:

Many people using UNIX or Linux would benefit greatly from
learning the wonderful but misunderstood language called Perl,
but they've heard that it's "weird", or perhaps "write-only",
which gives them pause. Add to this the daunting proposition of
grappling with the important but voluminous and wacky "Camel"
book (1,092 pages), and many decide to stick with the languages
they already know, leaving Perl to others.

But really, UNIX people don't have to learn much Perl to begin
to reap its rewards. That's because Perl encompasses the
functionality of certain core UNIX commands, including grep,
sed, and awk, and can be easily approached as as an
enhancement on those.

This talk, adapted from the upcoming book of the same name,
illustrates the core features of Perl through one-liners and
scripts that are of general interest and applicability to UNIX
and Linux people. Along the way, it leaves out all the overly
redundant, loony, bizarre, or esoteric features of Perl, 
demonstrating that without them, the language becomes more
accessible without losing its power or versatility.

RELATED RESOURCES:

See http://MinimalPerl.com for information about Tim's upcoming book,
brochure downloads, and to place advance orders.

See http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/slides.html for the slides
of related presentations, covering

 * the migration of refugees from the lands of UNIX and C to Perlistan
 (http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/dialect_lt.pdf),

 * 5 Perl one-liners every UNIX/Linux user should know
 (http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/5perlcmds.pdf),

 * a recent conference presentation on Minimal Perl
 (http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/mp4ulp_p1_small.pdf), and

 * a talk on Tim's latest Perl module, Shell::POSIX::Select,
 which implements for Perl the only UNIX loop that Perl lacked,
 the "select" loop of the POSIX shells.
 (http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/YAPC.03/Shell::POSIX::Select/select_mono.pdf),

ABOUT THE SPEAKER:

Since 1982, Dr. Tim Maher of Seattle-based Consultix has taught
many thousands of software professionals to program in Unix-related
languages. He's a former employee of AT&T, U.C. Berkeley, and the
University of Utah, the developer of the first Perl beautifier,
the founder of the Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG), a winner of
the Perl community's White Camel award, a frequent speaker at
Perl conferences, and the author of Manning Publication's
upcoming "Minimal Perl for UNIX and Linux People".

-Tim 
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
| CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals: 12/6-9 |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|    Watch for my Fall, 2005 book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
|  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*

From kmeyer at blarg.net  Tue Oct  4 20:30:09 2005
From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:30:09 -0700
Subject: SPUG: GSLUG THIS SATURDAY, October 8th -- Tim Maher on Minimal Perl
Message-ID: <NJBBIKGJOOGHIEPGNPLACEBDEGAA.kmeyer@blarg.net>

###############################################

The October 2005, regular meeting of the Greater Seattle Linux Users Group
(GSLUG) will be held this Saturday, October 8th, starting at 10:00 AM on
the North Seattle Community College campus.  The ineffable Dave Morse will
be your host, raconteur, bon vivant, inspirational speaker...

  ********************************************************

    We are confirmed to use room IB 3319.

    Parking is free on weekends.

    For directions, please visit the GSLUG monthly meetings web page at:

     	http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

    Room 3319 is in the Instruction Building (IB) on the west side of the
    building, facing College Way, on the third (top) floor about mid-way
    between the two ventilation towers.  Parking is available directly to
    the west of the building and there are elevators in the towers.

    Please feel free to forward this announcement.

  ********************************************************

The presentation topic will be:

    * 10:00 AM - "Minimal Perl for UNIX and Linux People"

	Tim Maher, CEO - Consultix

		http://TeachMePerl.com
		http://MinimalPerl.com

ABSTRACT:

This talk illustrates the core features of Perl through one-liners and
scripts that are of general interest and applicability to UNIX and Linux
people. Tim teaches UNIX/Linux people to program Perl using an easily
learned and sensible core sub-set of the language.  This sub-set omits what
some consider to be redundant, loony, bizarre, and esoteric features of
Perl.  Without them, the language becomes more accessible, but does not lose
its power and versatility.  Because PERL shares many key concepts and
commands with UNIX/Linux, it may be more easily assimilated and can leverage
the learner's existing knowledge. The content of the talk is adapted from
Tim?s upcoming book, "Minimal Perl for UNIX and Linux People".

SPEAKER?S BIO:

Since 1982, Dr. Tim Maher of Seattle-based Consultix has taught many
thousands of software professionals to program in Unix-related languages.
He's a former employee of AT&T, U.C. Berkeley, and the University of Utah.
He earned a  PH.D. in Experimental Psychology from the University of
Toronto, with a doctoral-level minor in Computer Science.  Tim developed the
first Perl code "beautifier", and is the founder of the Seattle Perl Users
Group (SPUG).  He is: a winner of the Perl community's prestigious White
Camel award, a frequent speaker at Perl conferences, and the author of
Manning Publication's upcoming "Minimal Perl for UNIX and Linux People".

SPEAKER?S COMMENTS:

Perl is one of the most expressive, powerful, versatile, O/S-portable, and
fun languages for general-purpose programming.  It is certainly one of the
best choices for applications involving text, HTML, or XML processing, and
for CGI or Database programming.

People using UNIX or Linux would benefit greatly from gaining a basic
understanding of this wonderful but misunderstood language.  You may have
heard that it's "weird", or perhaps "write-only", which may give you pause.
Add to this the daunting proposition of grappling with the important but
1,092 page long "Camel book? [Ed: O?Reilly publications identified by the
type of animal on the cover].  So, many decide to stick with the languages
they already know.

But really, LINUX/UNIX people don't have to learn much Perl to begin to reap
its rewards. That's because Perl encompasses the functionality of certain
core UNIX commands, including grep, sed, and awk; and can be approached as
an enhancement that builds on that functionality.

ORGANIZER?S COMMENTS:

I have attended a number of presentations by Tim Maher, including a four-day
course, and can vouch for Tim?s expertise and for the clarity, ?tightness?
and even humor that characterize his instruction.  That?s why we are
departing from our typical meeting agenda and are giving Tim the entire time
allocated to presentations, rather than splitting it between two of them.

RELATED RESOURCES:

See http://MinimalPerl.com for information about Tim's upcoming book,
brochure downloads, and to place advance orders.

See http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/slides.html for the slides
of related presentations, covering

 * the migration of refugees from the lands of UNIX and C to Perlistan
 (http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/dialect_lt.pdf),

 * 5 Perl one-liners every UNIX/Linux user should know
 (http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/5perlcmds.pdf),

 * a recent conference presentation on Minimal Perl
 (http://TeachMePerl.com/publications/mp4ulp_p1_small.pdf), and

   - Dave Morse and Ken Meyer

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    The GSLUG meeting agenda will be as follows:

       10:00 AM       First Presentation

       11:00 AM       Break

       11:10 AM       Key Announcements and (usually) Raffle Quiz

       11:15 AM       Continuation of the First Presentation

       12:15 PM       Break

       12:30 PM       Raffle prizes giveaway, when available

       12:35 PM       GSLUG business, including discussion of potential
		          future presentation topics

                	          Announcements by attendees

                	          Requests for assistance desired during the
		          following Workshop session, including
		          trouble-shooting and help with Linux installation
		          (bring your system).

       1:00 PM-ish    Formal meeting is adjourned; Workshop and
                             social networking opportunities begin,
                             including:

                * Installation and trouble-shooting assistance

                   For recommendations on preparations to maximize the
                   probability of a successful outcome, it is recommended
                   that you consult the "What to Bring" topic, way down the
                   page at:

                        http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

                * Potential break-out discussions about interest-group
                   activities

                * Informal PGP key signing

                * Talking, chatting, blathering, etc, etc.

       4:00 PM        End of meeting

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------

GSLUG meetings are held regularly on the second Saturday of the month
at 10 AM, currently at North Seattle Community College and USUALLY
in room 3319.

Directions, agenda, and presenters' bios will also be posted on
the GSLUG website, on the home page and at:

        http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html

Meeting announcements and notices of other GSLUG activities are
posted to the gslug-announce and gslug-general mail lists.  They
are currently not very "heavy traffic" lists and will not blitz your Inbox.
You are invited to join either or both lists at:

        http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-announce

and:

        http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general

Our new wiki site may be found at:

        http://wiki.gslug.org/

  -- The GSLUG Crew

------------------------------- 30 ----------------------------


From jazzdev at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 12:55:59 2005
From: jazzdev at gmail.com (JD Brennan)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:55:59 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Multi-threading in ActiveState Perl 5.6.1 crashes
Message-ID: <e3c3926f0510061255i167427ffi56e34842eca9c35c@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Spuggers,

I just found out about (and joined) this list.  I work on a large
multi-threaded Java application that calls PerlEmbed through
JNI.  We've had to serialize all calls to PerlEmbed due to
perl crashes when we don't.

A little Googling indicates others see the same intermittent
problems with multi-threading and Perl.

Anyone know the latest on this issue?  Is Perl 5.8 better?
Is CPAN Perl better than ActiveState?

Thanks,
JD Brennan

From andrew at sweger.net  Thu Oct  6 14:50:54 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:50:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: Seattle Code Camp, Oct 22 and 23
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510061439040.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

Seattle Code Camp[0] is a completely free community driven event that is
being spearheaded and funded by Jason Mauer, the local developer
evangelist for Microsoft. Many of the sessions at this point are .NET
related but we would like to broaden the focus to include other
non-Microsoft development platforms and include stuff like Perl, PHP,
Java, Linux, etc.

The basic rule is that anyone who wants to speak can speak about pretty
much anything having to do with software development. There are a few
rules[1] but this is not tied to any particular technology or company.

    When: Sat, Oct 22 and Sun, Oct 23, 2005.   
   Where: DeVry University in Federal Way 

If someone is interested in speaking, please go to see the FAQ[2] or email
Paul Litwin[3] session topics or potential speakers.

Second, if people would be interested in attending (it's free), please
register[4]. The agenda is not fixed yet, but you can see a list of the
tracks[5]. Remember, while it's free, registration is limited so encourage
people to sign up soon if they are interested in attending.

[0] - http://pacwest.ms/codecamp/sea/1/ 
[1] - http://pacwest.ms/codecamp/sea/1/faq.html
[2] - http://pacwest.ms/codecamp/sea/1/faq.html
[3] - mailto:plitwin at fhcrc.org
      Paul Litwin 
      Programming Manager, Collaborative Data Services 
      Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center 
[4] - http://register.pacwest.ms/
[5] - http://pacwest.ms/codecamp/sea/1/tracks.html



From tim at consultix-inc.com  Sun Oct  9 09:42:33 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:42:33 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Spug-wiki trashed again
Message-ID: <20051009164233.GA15408@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

SPUGsters,

The SPUG-wiki's pages have been trashed yet again, this morning.

The interval between page updates was about 15 seconds, which is
pretty hard for a human being to achieve. This suggests to me
that it might be possible to prevent this kind of wholesale page-
trashing by simply monitoring the rapidity of change submissions
coming in from a particular IP address, and disallowing any
further changes until a certain period of time has elapsed.

On the other hand, that same 15 second page-submitting delay is
/huge/ by mechanical standards, suggesting to me that the wiki-trashing-
bot is already artificially slowing down its activities, to
avoid raising suspicions. If true, all that the bad guys would
have to do is change $SECONDS_OF_DELAY from 15 to a suitable
higher number.

There's got to be a better way to maintain a Wiki than to have
a guy monitoring it 24x7 and manually restoring earlier
archived pages.

Any ideas?


-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
| CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals: 12/6-9 |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|     Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"     |
|  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*

From essuu at ourshack.com  Sun Oct  9 09:53:23 2005
From: essuu at ourshack.com (Simon Wilcox)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 17:53:23 +0100 (BST)
Subject: SPUG: Spug-wiki trashed again
In-Reply-To: <20051009164233.GA15408@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20051009164233.GA15408@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0510091750370.1873@kryten.city.digitalcraftsmen.net>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Tim Maher wrote:

> There's got to be a better way to maintain a Wiki than to have
> a guy monitoring it 24x7 and manually restoring earlier
> archived pages.
>
> Any ideas?

Registered users only can update ?

And you need to be subscribed to the list to be a registered user.

I know that this goes slightly against the concept of the anyone-can-edit
wiki but really, how many people outside of the list should be editing the
pages anyway ?

Simon.

From tim at consultix-inc.com  Sun Oct  9 10:39:06 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 10:39:06 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Perl classes in Kirkland, Nov. 14-18
Message-ID: <20051009173906.GA16020@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

SPUGsters,

FYI, in addition to the free Seattle talks I'm giving on Perl
these days (like yesterday's GSLUG talk and the upcoming Code
Camp talks), I'm also offering two hands-on Perl classes for
corporate engineers next month, and a UNIX/Linux class in
December, as indicated at the bottom of this message,

More details are provided at http://consultix-inc.com

-Tim

P.S. If necessary, I might run a "lottery" to fill up a few seats
     that would otherwise go vacant, as I've done in the past, so
     those who are interested in attending at a HUGE discount
     should watch for further announcements in mid-October.
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
| CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals: 12/6-9 |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|     Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"     |
|  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*

From:   Tim Maher, Consultix
  Re:   Fall Classes on Perl and UNIX

Here's the schedule of upcoming classes at our new facility in
Kirkland, which provides a ceiling-mounted projector, a Pentium
workstation for each student, and a convenient location near
SR-520 and Bellevue Way:

          Consultix Public Classes, Fall 2005
--------------------------------------------------------
                                                DISCOUNT
COURSE                     DATES       DAYS     DEADLINE  
Perl Programming           11/14-16      3       10/11   
Perl Modules, plus CGI     11/17-18     1.5      10/11  
UNIX/Linux Fundamentals    12/06-09      4       11/04 
--------------------------------------------------------

Perl Programming
----------------
This course covers the fundamentals of the Perl language,
and is for those already familiar with UNIX and having prior
programming experience.  It's the prerequisite for the
"Modules" course discussed next.

Perl Modules
------------
This course teaches you how to use free "CPAN" code in your
programs, so you won't have to duplicate the effort of writing
the equivalent code yourself. There's nothing else you can learn
about Perl that will enhance your productivity more!

In this special November offering, we'll spend extra time on
Perl's "CGI" module, which is widely used by savvy Web
programmers to:

* create web pages, while relieving them of the responsibility of
  getting the HTML right, and

* process user-submitted forms, while relieving them of the
  responsibility of parsing the data out of the fields on
  their own.

UNIX/Linux Fundamentals
-----------------------
This course provides a beginner's introduction to command-
line use of UNIX and Linux systems, emphasizing the especially
empowering topics of writing shell scripts and using UNIX utilities
(grep, sed, awk, etc.). Because the UNIX and Linux versions of
this course are very similar, and substantially interchangeable,
we'll poll the registered students concerning their preferences,
and run the course on UNIX or Linux according to their votes.

Don't hesitate to let me know if you have any questions!

-Tim Maher

  P.S. For groups of 3 or more students from the same company,
       ask about "on-site" classes!

P.P.S. You need to register and pay by the "Discount Deadline"
       shown in the above schedule in order to qualify for
       discounted tuition. Details are at http://consultix-
       inc.com/register.html and links therefrom.


************************************************************
                    CONSULTIX ON-LINE RESOURCES

Minimal Perl book's web site:
        http://manning.com/Maher

General Information:
        http://www.consultix-inc.com

On-Site Training:
        http://www.consultix-inc.com/on-site.html

Course Listings:
        Perl,       http://TeachMePerl.com/perllist.html
        UNIX/Shell, http://TeachMeUnix.com/unixlist.html

Class Prices and Registration:
        http://www.consultix-inc.com/reg.txt
        http://www.consultix-inc.com/cgibin/register.html

Instructor Evaluations: http://www.consultix-inc.com/evals.html
    Course Evaluations: http://www.consultix-inc.com/course_evals.html

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
| CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals: 12/6-9 |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|    Watch for my Fall, 2005 book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"    |
|  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*

From moonbeam at catmanor.com  Sun Oct  9 14:06:09 2005
From: moonbeam at catmanor.com (William Julien)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:06:09 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Spug-wiki trashed again
In-Reply-To: <20051009164233.GA15408@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20051009164233.GA15408@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <B6ADF2E8-7FB8-4B90-81B2-0387B7FE4025@catmanor.com>

I had a problem with my wiki getting trashed until I setup and edit  
password. I use the usemod wiki which allows for the configuration of  
an edit password. This password could then be only distributed to the  
spug list.

William
vi bill

On Oct 9, 2005, at 9:42 AM, Tim Maher wrote:
>
> There's got to be a better way to maintain a Wiki than to have
> a guy monitoring it 24x7 and manually restoring earlier
> archived pages.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> -Tim
> *--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -----*
> | Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866)  
> DOC-UNIX |
> | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http:// 
> TeachMeUnix.Com |
> | CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals:  
> 12/6-9 |
> *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
> =-=-=-=*
> |     Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux  
> People"     |
> |  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list  
> signup |
> *--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -----*
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>
>


From andrew at sweger.net  Mon Oct 10 12:37:34 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: A change of Wiki
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510101233060.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

New SPUG wiki up at,

  http://mediawiki.seattleperl.org/

Actually, it's been there for months. I wasn't sure I wanted to make it
"live" or not. Feel free to make accounts. Get in touch with me if you
want any of the various administrative features. Start porting information
from the current wiki (if you can find it). Then someone let me know when
it's ready to replace the "live" one.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Tue Oct 11 15:28:04 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:28:04 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Puget Sound SIGCHI Chapter hosts 2 events by speakers from
	Cooper Interactive Design
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1129069699.13039.spug-list@pm.org>

The Puget Sound SIGCHI Chapter is hosting 2 exciting events, both by
members of Cooper Interactive Design (cooper.com).  These will both be
world class events.  Don't get one confused with the other.  Come to
both!

The first event is our monthly meeting, co-sponsored by the U.W. student
chapter.
    Speaker:    Alan Cooper, Chairman and Co-founder
    Topic:      Software Design: Ending the Death March
    Date:       Thursday October 27th, 2005
    Time:       6:00 pm: Refreshments; 7pm-9pm: Presentation
    Location:   U.W. Kane Hall
    Complete Information:
      Puget Sound SIGCHI 10/27/2005 Meeting
      http://www.acm.org/chapters/pssigchi/html/meetings/10_27_2005.html

The second event is our yearly tutorial.
    Speaker:     Kim Goodwin, Director of Design
    Topic:       Translating data into a design concep
    Date:        Wednesday, November 2, 2005
    Time:        8:00 - 5:00
    Where:       Adobe, Freemont section of Seattle
    Cost:        $400 ($100 discount for early registration by 10/12)
    Complete information:
      Puget Sound SIGCHI 2005 Tutorial
      http://www.acm.org/chapters/pssigchi/html/meetings/tutorial_2005.html

-- 
Michael R. Wolf
    All mammals learn by playing!
        MichaelRWolf at att.net



From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org  Tue Oct 11 15:57:53 2005
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: skilled perl programmer at IMDb.com, Seattle
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510111552420.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

It's a great job for the right person.

* required skill-set --
   batchelors, 3+ yrs, skilled perl programmer

* contract or permanent position -- 
   full-time

* for contracts, expected duration and pay range -- 
   n/a

* for permanent positions, availability of stock options, incentive plans --
   full benefits

* placement through recruiter, or directly with company? -- 
   must apply directly, no recruiters at this time.

* W-2 vs. 1099 status  -- 
   regular full time position

* any restrictions on 1099 status: Corporation, etc.? --
   negotiable...

* physical location --  
   seattle office (near downtown, rails/bus)

* telecommuting possible?  --  
   possibly, partially -- one or so days a week upper bound.

* company's product or service (e.g., e-commerce, grocery shopping,
  nuclear weapons, pornography, etc.)  -- 
   premier movies, tv, games website!

Apply at

  http://www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?jobatimdb.




From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org  Wed Oct 12 18:00:28 2005
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: Austin, TX - Billing/Tools Developer
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510121759240.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

Billing/Tools Developer
NCsoft, the world's leading developer and publisher of online computer
games, is seeking an experienced application developer for its billing
and tools systems development in Austin, Texas. Primary responsibilities
will include designing, documenting, developing, testing, implementing
and maintaining existing and future billing and systems tools,
reporting, and monitoring applications for administrative and public
use. 

Requirements: 
2+ years experience using Perl. 
Excellent understanding of SQL programming. 
Experience with custom report writing 
Excellent verbal and written communication skills. 
Experience working with RDBMSs such as MS SQL. 
Experience working with business stakeholders to develop requirements
for software projects. 
Good working knowledge of HTML. 

Preferred: 
Experience with Billing system design and setup 
Understanding of CSS & DHTML. 
Experience with multi-product billing systems 
Experience developing Customer Support tools 
Experience working with Linux and Apache 
Experience using DBI 
Experience developing for the web 

Interested candidates should send a resume along with salary
requirements to jobs at ncaustin.com. 

The Austin location is home to NCsoft game development projects, support
activities as well as sales, marketing and administrative functions for
our North American operations. Austin, the capital of Texas, is located
in the heart of the Texas hill country and ranks high on the livability
scale for many reasons which include, a reasonable cost of living, great
scenery and recreational activities, a renowned music scene and
cosmopolitan atmosphere without big city hassle.


Billing / Tools Report Writer

NCsoft, the world's leading developer and publisher of online computer
games, is seeking an experienced application developer for its billing
and tools systems development in Austin, Texas. Primary responsibilities
will include developing reports on financial and game related
information as well as developing customer service tools. Most
development is done using open source tools in a Linux environment. 

Requirements: 
Excellent understanding of SQL 
Experience with custom report writing 
Excellent verbal and written communication skills 
Experience working with RDBMSs such as MS SQL 
Experience working with business stakeholders to develop requirements
for reports 
Experience with a scripting language (Perl, PHP, VB) 

Preferred: 
Experience writing financial reports 
Experience with reporting tools like Crystal Reports 
Experience developing Customer Support tools 
Experience working with Linux and Apache 
Experience using DBI 
Experience developing for the web 
Perl fluency 

Interested candidates should send a resume along with salary
requirements to jobs at ncaustin.com. 

The Austin location is home to NCsoft game development projects, support
activities as well as sales, marketing and administrative functions for
our North American operations. Austin, the capital of Texas, is located
in the heart of the Texas hill country and ranks high on the livability
scale for many reasons which include, a reasonable cost of living, great
scenery and recreational activities, a renowned music scene and
cosmopolitan atmosphere without big city hassle.



From linm at superior-sdc.com  Mon Oct 17 11:16:16 2005
From: linm at superior-sdc.com (Maurice Lin)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:16:16 -0400
Subject: SPUG: Perl Developer Contractor Needed
Message-ID: <ED5F186C0DFCD311901500C04FA0733130522A93@SGCMAIL01>

Our client has an immediate need of a Software Developer to assist in
writing several small programs.

 

Job Skills

*	Strong Perl required
*	Lisp and C++ a strong plus
*	Windows / Linux Experience
*	Experience with Rose and UML is a plus. 
*	Strong interpersonal and teamwork skills are highly recommended.

*	BS in CS + 5 years exp. (preferred)

 

Pay Rate: $40-45/hr 

Location: Kent, WA or Seattle, WA (Boeing Field)

Duration: ~ 3 months

Start date: ASAP (24-48hrs from date of hire)

 

If you are interested, I will need the following:

*	Latest Resume 
*	Salary/Pay requirements 
*	Availability to Interview (please provide two date/time)
*	Available to start (can you start in a week?)
*	Work Authorization (Are you a US Citizen, Greencard/EAD, or Visa
holder?)

 

 

Maurice Lin
Technical Recruiter
linm at superior-sdc.com <mailto:linm at superior-sdc.com> 
Superior Technical Resources
866-489-9020 x50(Toll Free)

 

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From schuh at farmdale.com  Mon Oct 17 12:54:07 2005
From: schuh at farmdale.com (Mike Schuh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:54:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: Perl tutors wanted
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510121759240.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510130220480.5029-100000@drizzle.com>

Howdy,

Several students in my Perl class have asked about tutors.  For a variety 
of reasons, I'm not available, but I promised them that I would ask SPUG 
if anyone is interested and available.  These are beginners and mostly 
need help with basic concepts.

Anyone who would like to follow up on this please contact me off list.

Thanks.

--

 "Sometimes it's good to hush up a while and
  let autumn stick in a few words."
		- Calvin, "Yukon Ho!"

Mike Schuh -- Seattle, Washington USA
http://www.farmdale.com



From schuh at farmdale.com  Mon Oct 17 21:10:11 2005
From: schuh at farmdale.com (Mike Schuh)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: hold those calls! Perl tutors found
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510172108030.28284-100000@drizzle.com>

Hi again,

I got an amazingly quick and more-than-adequate response to my call for
Perl tutors - is this a great users group or what?

I will put those who responded in contact with those seeking tutors.

Thanks all.

--

 "Sometimes it's good to hush up a while and
  let autumn stick in a few words."
		- Calvin, "Yukon Ho!"

Mike Schuh -- Seattle, Washington USA
http://www.farmdale.com


From jay at scherrer.com  Tue Oct 18 08:09:04 2005
From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:09:04 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Perl tutors wanted
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510130220480.5029-100000@drizzle.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510130220480.5029-100000@drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <1129648144.3094.8.camel@gimly.scherco.local>

Mike Schuh,

Why not have (encourage) them to post their questions on the SPUG list
itself. This list has provided me with a bounty of virtual tutelage.
Added with the benefit of several different views of the same solution.

Jay Scherrer
Scherrer Company

On Mon, 2005-10-17 at 12:54 -0700, Mike Schuh wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> Several students in my Perl class have asked about tutors.  For a variety 
> of reasons, I'm not available, but I promised them that I would ask SPUG 
> if anyone is interested and available.  These are beginners and mostly 
> need help with basic concepts.
> 
> Anyone who would like to follow up on this please contact me off list.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
> 
>  "Sometimes it's good to hush up a while and
>   let autumn stick in a few words."
> 		- Calvin, "Yukon Ho!"
> 
> Mike Schuh -- Seattle, Washington USA
> http://www.farmdale.com
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List  
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/


From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Tue Oct 18 09:59:53 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:59:53 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Perl tutors wanted
In-Reply-To: <1129648144.3094.8.camel@gimly.scherco.local>
Message-ID: <20051018170018.2ED6CBB31@gandalf.addnorya.net>

> Why not have (encourage) them to post their questions on the SPUG list
> itself. This list has provided me with a bounty of virtual tutelage.
> Added with the benefit of several different views of the same solution.

Virtual Tutelage?

We were hoping it was *actual* tutelage!  :-)

And on a serious note...  

Make sure they realize that we're interested in helping them and pointing
them in the right direction, but not in facilitating irresponsible requests
to do all the work for them.  And make sure that they understand that many
replies will *not* be working code, but pointers to good documentation.
That's a lot of what we "elders" can supply -- pointers for where to look.
And make sure that they understand that RTFM can actually mean read the FINE
manual, with pointers like "start digging around by reading perodc XXX or
look at Module::YYY, then re-post a better/different question if that
doesn't clear it up for you".

Make sure you hear where I'm coming from.  I did, privately, send my contact
information to be a tutor.  It's one of the things I do.  I teach Perl.  I
promote Perl.  I promote Perl by teaching Perl.  I agree with Jay.  SPUG
could be a great place to put apprentices with master craftspeople.  I've
often regretted that we don't have more of an apprenticeship model in our
field.  I think it's a great way to share the hard-earned knowledge with the
next wave of up-and-coming programmers.  I just want to avoid the burn-out
I've seen in other forums where advice stopped being offered when
questioners took advantage of the forum.

I think you know what I'm saying.  I'll stop now.

Mike -- thanks for making the private individual connections.

Jay -- thanks for suggesting they go public in a group.

Let the playing (err, learning) begin!

Thanks,
Michael "It takes a Perl Community" Wolf

-- 
Michael R. Wolf
    All mammals learn by playing!
        MichaelRWolf at att.net


From dblanchard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 10:33:41 2005
From: dblanchard at gmail.com (Duane Blanchard)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:33:41 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Discount code for O'Reilly orders
Message-ID: <d2489e840510181033r7dd8c0cdw95b78c067a75c4d0@mail.gmail.com>

I see on the User Groups pages at oreillly.com <http://oreillly.com> that
UGs are given a discount code for subscriptions and purchases. Does anyone
know our code? I'm upgrading my Make: subscription to Premier.

Thanks,

Duane

--
Duane Blanchard
206.280.1263

There are 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who know binary and those who don't.
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From andrew at sweger.net  Tue Oct 18 15:22:16 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: Discount code for O'Reilly orders
In-Reply-To: <d2489e840510181033r7dd8c0cdw95b78c067a75c4d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510181521120.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

The code should be DSUG. Let me know if that does not work. Especially let
me know if you get to use it on the Make Premier subscription.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Duane Blanchard wrote:

> I see on the User Groups pages at oreillly.com <http://oreillly.com> that
> UGs are given a discount code for subscriptions and purchases. Does anyone
> know our code? I'm upgrading my Make: subscription to Premier.

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From andrew at sweger.net  Tue Oct 18 16:36:39 2005
From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:36:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: no meeting tonight
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510181636130.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

In case it isn't obvious, there is no planned meeting for tonight. 

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
                                things can go wrong at once.


From MichaelRWolf at att.net  Thu Oct 20 06:50:34 2005
From: MichaelRWolf at att.net (Michael R. Wolf)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 06:50:34 -0700
Subject: SPUG: How great it is!  Perl, that is.
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1129816248.13039.spug-list@pm.org>

At an MIT Enterprise Forum dinner meeting last night, I sat next to a
software engineer who seemed to have been sucked (somewhat against his
preference) into projects that were very centered on Microsoft product and
tools.  When I told him that most of my development was in Perl, his
reaction was spontaneous and genuine:

    I love Perl, and I don't even know it.
      -- Steve Land, Codesic Consulting

Later in the conversation, after we had talked about how powerful and
expressive Perl is, he again reconnected me with why I love this language:

    The fact that Perl exists makes me happy.
      -- Steve Land, Codesic Consulting




Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to realize that the grass is
*really* green on this side of the fence.

-- 
Michael R. Wolf
    All mammals learn by playing!
        MichaelRWolf at att.net



From tim at consultix-inc.com  Thu Oct 20 07:39:44 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:39:44 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
Message-ID: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>

Fellow SPUGsters,

For the first time in its 8.5 year history, SPUG has skipped two
monthly technical meetings in a row. To put this statistic in
perspective, there was a time when SPUG averaged two technical
meetings /per month/!

It's a lot easier to keep a patient alive than it is to bring one
back from the dead, so before this patient dies altogether, it
would be prudent for interested parties to notice the disturbing
trends in its vital signs, and take corrective action.

When the previous SPUG leader retired (who was that guy?), there
was a lot of spirited talk about "one-man despotic leadership
regimes" being bad, and "committee-based leadership" and "voting"
being good, but as it happened, the leadership role ultimately
just sort of fell onto Andy's shoulders, leading to another one-
man leadership structure, which can place a heavy burden on that
individual.

I'm glad Andy was willing to take on the SPUGsponsibility, during
a difficult time when we didn't even have a regular meeting
space. But maybe Andy's shoulders are getting tired now, and
would like some help carrying the load?

Whatever's wrong with this patient, I think we should strive
to diagnose it quickly, and stabilize the vital signs ASAP,
before SPUG ends up dead--or even worse--in a persistent
vegetative state.

-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
| CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals: 12/6-9 |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|     Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"     |
|  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*

From kevin-spug at fink.com  Thu Oct 20 08:10:06 2005
From: kevin-spug at fink.com (Kevin Fink)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510200759390.12573@kevin.fink.com>

One idea that I'd like to float is having some of the meetings during 
business hours, in a location near where (at least some subset of) SPUG 
members work.

For those of us who work long hours and have families, taking an hour or 
two out of a workday may be more palatable than an evening.  It certainly 
would be for me.  And for many of us who work in the Perl world, taking 
time off work to attend professional meetings is acceptable (and even 
desirable - heck, I pay for my employees to attend out-of-town 
conferences, so I'm certainly going to encourage them to attend free local 
meetings!).

<wild_speculation> In the early days, many/most SPUG members were 
INTERESTED in Perl rather than WORKING in Perl.  Nowadays, I think there 
is a much larger and more robust group of professional Perl programmers 
and associated technologists that either are members of SPUG, or should be 
if they're not already. </wild_speculation>

I don't think this will work for everyone, hence the suggestion that SOME 
meetings should be tried during business hours.

Thoughts?

Kevin

From dblanchard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 08:33:59 2005
From: dblanchard at gmail.com (Duane Blanchard)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:33:59 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510200759390.12573@kevin.fink.com>
References: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510200759390.12573@kevin.fink.com>
Message-ID: <d2489e840510200833r7bbe37e7t291576f48157b1ff@mail.gmail.com>

I like the business time idea a lot. My issue is the evening meeting time,
and while I think that should still be the emphasis of the group, I would
really like to at least try a daytime option. I can't get people into my
building in Bellevue, but am willing to find a venue for those in Bellevue.
My preference would be near I-90 and 148th Ave SE, but I'm interested to
hear what would be good for others. If you would like to send me addresses
of workplaces (east and west side) I'll build a map on PowerMap (
http://hobbiton.thisside.net/advmap.html) and post the results. If you are
uncomfortable giving out your work address, just give me the address of the
nearest Starbucks or such.
 Thanks,
 Duane
 On 10/20/05, Kevin Fink <kevin-spug at fink.com> wrote:
>
> One idea that I'd like to float is having some of the meetings during
> business hours, in a location near where (at least some subset of) SPUG
> members work.
>
> For those of us who work long hours and have families, taking an hour or
> two out of a workday may be more palatable than an evening. It certainly
> would be for me. And for many of us who work in the Perl world, taking
> time off work to attend professional meetings is acceptable (and even
> desirable - heck, I pay for my employees to attend out-of-town
> conferences, so I'm certainly going to encourage them to attend free local
> meetings!).
>
> <wild_speculation> In the early days, many/most SPUG members were
> INTERESTED in Perl rather than WORKING in Perl. Nowadays, I think there
> is a much larger and more robust group of professional Perl programmers
> and associated technologists that either are members of SPUG, or should be
> if they're not already. </wild_speculation>
>
> I don't think this will work for everyone, hence the suggestion that SOME
> meetings should be tried during business hours.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Kevin
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com <http://Amazon.com> Pac-Med
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>



--
Duane Blanchard
206.280.1263

There are 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who know binary and those who don't.
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From yahgrp at poplarware.com  Thu Oct 20 08:44:43 2005
From: yahgrp at poplarware.com (Jennifer Hodgdon)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:44:43 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0510200759390.12573@kevin.fink.com>
References: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0510200759390.12573@kevin.fink.com>
Message-ID: <4357BB6B.8030801@poplarware.com>

Kevin Fink wrote:
> One idea that I'd like to float is having some of the meetings during 
> business hours, in a location near where (at least some subset of) SPUG 
> members work.

I also like the idea of business-hour meetings. I am 
self-employed, and prefer to work (attending tech meetings counts 
as work!) only during business hours, to keep myself out of the 
habit of doing other work activities on evenings and weekends 
(it's so easy to walk to my office....)

    --Jennifer, not extremely active, recently re-joined SPUG member

-- 
Jennifer Hodgdon

Poplar ProductivityWare * www.poplarware.com
Web Databases/Scripts * Modeling/Analysis/Palm OS Software

From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 08:48:42 2005
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:48:42 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
References: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400510200848h75c5e453k4809cca83d64e0d2@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/05, Tim Maher <tim at consultix-inc.com> wrote:
> I'm glad Andy was willing to take on the SPUGsponsibility, during
> a difficult time when we didn't even have a regular meeting
> space. But maybe Andy's shoulders are getting tired now, and
> would like some help carrying the load?
>
i'd love to help. i've not been in seattle long, so i don't know many
of my fellow SPUGsters well, but i was active in my previous community
(phl.pm) and have long ago recognized the benefits of membership.

i don't know the history of spug, how it was run in the past, and i
greatly appreciate the time andy has taken to make this group work.
thanks for everything, andy! i'm enthusiastic about perl, i have been
helped a great deal by the community, and i'd like to give back in
whatever way i can. if there's anything i can do... i'll try my best.

> Whatever's wrong with this patient, I think we should strive
> to diagnose it quickly, and stabilize the vital signs ASAP,
> before SPUG ends up dead--or even worse--in a persistent
> vegetative state.
>
if i may offer some suggestions on what i've seen since may, i think
the meeting planning has pretty much been left up to andy, with nobody
stepping up to say "my skillset is <foo> i'd like to give a talk on
it". so, i'm stepping up and saying, my skillset includes parrot
development (i'm a committer for parrot, the virtual machine that will
run under perl 6) and i'd like to give a talk on it. i'll need one
week's notice to prepare, so if there's interest, and i'm given the
time i need to prepare, i'll present. i've never presented this info
before, so it can be a learning experience for us all (me included!)

also, i think the following would benefit us as a community:
~an organizing committee (president or board, treasurer, etc)
~periodic committee meetings (via phone, in person, or email) to
discuss spug activity
~an easy-to-update list of subjects for talks, either by those who
want to give them, or those who want to hear them
~a periodic review of talks, events, etc. with requests for and
scheduling of speakers by the spug organizing committee
~a wiki free of spam, so it can be reliably used
~more activity on spug-list -- q&a, events, off-topic stuff, whatever.
from what i understand, spug is a large community, but the frequency
of communication belies that fact.

being somewhat of an outsider, i don't know if any or all of this
exists, so please don't come down hard on me if it's there and i have
missed it. these are just my opinions on things i think would make it
easier for me and others to request and present, and for spug to run a
more regular meeting schedule if, as tim suggests, the burden does not
fall on the shoulders of one man.

again, i'm openly offering more than critisism/advice. i'm offering my
services to do whatever i can to help spug recover from it's recent
slump in activity, and make this community thrive again.

please let me know what i can do to help.
~jerry

From kmeyer at blarg.net  Thu Oct 20 09:02:27 2005
From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:02:27 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <NJBBIKGJOOGHIEPGNPLAMEPGEHAA.kmeyer@blarg.net>

This is a rampant disease of late, afflicting SLUG, the Unix Group; SeaBUG,
the BSD group; TacLUG, the Tacoma Linux group; and it will be GSLUG too,
when I get up the nerve to make good my threat to pull the plug.  I have
attended three "future of the order" meetings for the aforementioned groups
in the recent past, and it appears likely that I will have the opportunity
to do so for SPUG as well.

When I spend a good deal of effort to create a questionnaire for GSLUG, in
an attempt to address any improvements the group would advocate, and then
only three people out of 30 return them filled-out, and when offers of help
come with disclaimers that "I can do <whatever> next month, but can't [read;
I don't want to] commit to ongoing help" -- as if they were doing ME a
personal favor, rather than supporting the community of the art for their
own benefit as well as all others, I contemplate pulling the plug sooner
rather than later.  In fact, solitary organizers everywhere will probably
agree that it is more effort to educate a one-shot wonder than to do the job
oneself, and then some significant things will probably fall through the
cracks in one's absence -- boy, let me tell you.  I mention the travails of
these other groups because I think that there is a lot in common between
them, including with SPUG as well.

As for meetings during the day, lunch-time gatherings have flared-up from
time to time, including some pleasant ones instigated by Mr. Maher, and most
recently a downtown meeting of GSLUG types (including a 10-minute
presentation), but they have all petered-out for some reason.

I hate it when there is a request for suggestions and anyone who has the
temerity to offer one is immediately pressed to take on the responsibility
him or herself -- kind of kills the incentive for dialog.  However, given
that SPUG and GSLUG function as communes that have no elected officers or
resources from dues, it is necessary that people do more than make
suggestions that they apparently expect other people to implement.

It is puzzling to me why this lack of support is evidenced just when OSS
seems to be getting real traction; maybe it's that the major protagonists
are now too busy doing the work.  Dunno.

Ken M.


-----Original Message-----

From: spug-list-bounces+kmeyer=blarg.net at pm.org
[mailto:spug-list-bounces+kmeyer=blarg.net at pm.org]On Behalf Of Tim Maher
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 7:40 AM
To: spug-list at pm.org

Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?

Fellow SPUGsters,

For the first time in its 8.5 year history, SPUG has skipped two
monthly technical meetings in a row. To put this statistic in
perspective, there was a time when SPUG averaged two technical
meetings /per month/!

It's a lot easier to keep a patient alive than it is to bring one
back from the dead, so before this patient dies altogether, it
would be prudent for interested parties to notice the disturbing
trends in its vital signs, and take corrective action.

When the previous SPUG leader retired (who was that guy?), there
was a lot of spirited talk about "one-man despotic leadership
regimes" being bad, and "committee-based leadership" and "voting"
being good, but as it happened, the leadership role ultimately
just sort of fell onto Andy's shoulders, leading to another one-
man leadership structure, which can place a heavy burden on that
individual.

I'm glad Andy was willing to take on the SPUGsponsibility, during
a difficult time when we didn't even have a regular meeting
space. But maybe Andy's shoulders are getting tired now, and
would like some help carrying the load?

Whatever's wrong with this patient, I think we should strive
to diagnose it quickly, and stabilize the vital signs ASAP,
before SPUG ends up dead--or even worse--in a persistent
vegetative state.

-Tim
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
| CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals: 12/6-9 |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|     Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"     |
|  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
_____________________________________________________________
Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/



From m3047 at inwa.net  Thu Oct 20 09:06:04 2005
From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:06:04 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
Message-ID: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@[10.0.0.251]>

Ken and Tim (and others) may recall that in the past I expressed opinions
on the problems of assuring an orderly progression when the leadership mode
is charismatic. That was not then, and is not now, to suggest that
charismatic leadership doesn't have its place or is inherently "bad".

I got frustrated with what passes for "politics" in these milieus (you want
my help now, but you didn't want it then?), and with the
inability/unwillingness of people to create effective spinoffs... so I
moved on to real politics, and back to focusing on my own business.


I should get together with Jay more often, since he lives right down the
street. I like arguing about politics with him, too. ;-)

--

Fred Morris
http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/contact.html



From dblanchard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 09:34:59 2005
From: dblanchard at gmail.com (Duane Blanchard)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:34:59 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@10.0.0.251>
References: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@10.0.0.251>
Message-ID: <d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>

I've found a better resource for this than PowerMap, CommunityWalk
http://www.communitywalk.com, I've created an account as follows:
 user: spug
pass: spugger
 I've entered the addresses I have, if your address has been sent to the
list or was listed at
http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/<http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/contact.html#contact>(Fred)
please log in and confirm your address. For anryone else, if you want
to add yourself, log in and go for it.
 Thanks,
 Duane

 On 10/20/05, Fred Morris <m3047 at inwa.net> wrote:
>
> Ken and Tim (and others) may recall that in the past I expressed opinions
> on the problems of assuring an orderly progression when the leadership
> mode
> is charismatic. That was not then, and is not now, to suggest that
> charismatic leadership doesn't have its place or is inherently "bad".
>
> I got frustrated with what passes for "politics" in these milieus (you
> want
> my help now, but you didn't want it then?), and with the
> inability/unwillingness of people to create effective spinoffs... so I
> moved on to real politics, and back to focusing on my own business.
>
>
> I should get together with Jay more often, since he lives right down the
> street. I like arguing about politics with him, too. ;-)
>
> --
>
> Fred Morris
> http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/contact.html
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com <http://Amazon.com> Pac-Med
> WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>



--
Duane Blanchard
206.280.1263

There are 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who know binary and those who don't.
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From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 09:57:51 2005
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:57:51 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@10.0.0.251>
	<d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400510200957n22463dd2s7818521f6a411119@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/05, Duane Blanchard <dblanchard at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've found a better resource for this than PowerMap, CommunityWalk
> http://www.communitywalk.com, I've created an account as follows:
>
> user: spug
> pass: spugger
>
> I've entered the addresses I have, if your address has been sent to the list
> or was listed at http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/ (Fred) please log in and
> confirm your address. For anryone else, if you want to add yourself, log in
> and go for it.
>
nice site! thanks, i've updated my info. would be great to see this on
seattleperl.org, too.
~jerry

From dblanchard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:02:32 2005
From: dblanchard at gmail.com (Duane Blanchard)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:02:32 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@10.0.0.251>
	<d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2489e840510201102h5a505521g3bfde735b843c8c9@mail.gmail.com>

Appologies to Jerry, who got this earlier, and has also deleted a lot of
gunk.
 I've deleted all the trash that was spammed on the wiki for this page:
http://wiki.seattleperl.org/index.cgi?KeepSPUGaLive
and added a post about daytime meetings. Please edit as appropriate.

We may want to password protect the wiki and make the login info plainly
visible on the home page, just to keep out the bots.

D

 On 10/20/05, Duane Blanchard <dblanchard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've found a better resource for this than PowerMap, CommunityWalk
> http://www.communitywalk.com, I've created an account as follows:
>  user: spug
> pass: spugger
>  I've entered the addresses I have, if your address has been sent to the
> list or was listed at http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/<http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/contact.html#contact>(Fred) please log in and confirm your address. For anryone else, if you want
> to add yourself, log in and go for it.
>  Thanks,
>  Duane
>
>  On 10/20/05, Fred Morris <m3047 at inwa.net> wrote:
> >
> > Ken and Tim (and others) may recall that in the past I expressed
> > opinions
> > on the problems of assuring an orderly progression when the leadership
> > mode
> > is charismatic. That was not then, and is not now, to suggest that
> > charismatic leadership doesn't have its place or is inherently "bad".
> >
> > I got frustrated with what passes for "politics" in these milieus (you
> > want
> > my help now, but you didn't want it then?), and with the
> > inability/unwillingness of people to create effective spinoffs... so I
> > moved on to real politics, and back to focusing on my own business.
> >
> >
> > I should get together with Jay more often, since he lives right down the
> >
> > street. I like arguing about politics with him, too. ;-)
> >
> > --
> >
> > Fred Morris
> > http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/contact.html
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
> > POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> > SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
> > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com <http://amazon.com/>Pac-Med
> > WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Duane Blanchard
> 206.280.1263
>
> There are 10 kinds of people in the world;
> those who know binary and those who don't.
>



--
Duane Blanchard
206.280.1263

There are 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who know binary and those who don't.
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From jerry.gay at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 11:35:06 2005
From: jerry.gay at gmail.com (jerry gay)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:35:06 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <d2489e840510201102h5a505521g3bfde735b843c8c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@10.0.0.251>
	<d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2489e840510201102h5a505521g3bfde735b843c8c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d9a3f400510201135x411a4db7yf3a973dda08702a5@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/20/05, Duane Blanchard <dblanchard at gmail.com> wrote:
> We may want to password protect the wiki and make the login info plainly
> visible on the home page, just to keep out the bots.
>
i heartily endorse this product and / or service.

some of these pages need to be rolled back over 100 revisions to get
back to a valid version. the wiki is perfectly useless as a
communication medium if it can be overwritten anytime by bots.

~jerry

From dan at concolor.org  Thu Oct 20 11:43:07 2005
From: dan at concolor.org (Daniel Sabath)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:43:07 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <1d9a3f400510201135x411a4db7yf3a973dda08702a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@10.0.0.251>
	<d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2489e840510201102h5a505521g3bfde735b843c8c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d9a3f400510201135x411a4db7yf3a973dda08702a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F3001F1-5F9C-4AC0-80D5-C8CCF652E061@concolor.org>


On Oct 20, 2005, at 11:35 AM, jerry gay wrote:

> On 10/20/05, Duane Blanchard <dblanchard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We may want to password protect the wiki and make the login info  
>> plainly
>> visible on the home page, just to keep out the bots.
>>
>>
> i heartily endorse this product and / or service.
>
> some of these pages need to be rolled back over 100 revisions to get
> back to a valid version. the wiki is perfectly useless as a
> communication medium if it can be overwritten anytime by bots.

I agree, it seems to me that a simple captcha might solve the problem  
as well.

Dan


From tcaine at cac.washington.edu  Thu Oct 20 11:54:02 2005
From: tcaine at cac.washington.edu (tcaine@cac.washington.edu)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:54:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <1F3001F1-5F9C-4AC0-80D5-C8CCF652E061@concolor.org>
References: <v02130501bf7d6e2cf179@10.0.0.251>
	<d2489e840510200934w48edefb1m43590490100a827f@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2489e840510201102h5a505521g3bfde735b843c8c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d9a3f400510201135x411a4db7yf3a973dda08702a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F3001F1-5F9C-4AC0-80D5-C8CCF652E061@concolor.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63a.0510201152090.8118@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>


This module looks like an interesting solution:

http://search.cpan.org/~gugod/Kwiki-Scode-0.03/

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Daniel Sabath wrote:

>
> On Oct 20, 2005, at 11:35 AM, jerry gay wrote:
>
>> On 10/20/05, Duane Blanchard <dblanchard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We may want to password protect the wiki and make the login info
>>> plainly
>>> visible on the home page, just to keep out the bots.
>>>
>>>
>> i heartily endorse this product and / or service.
>>
>> some of these pages need to be rolled back over 100 revisions to get
>> back to a valid version. the wiki is perfectly useless as a
>> communication medium if it can be overwritten anytime by bots.
>
> I agree, it seems to me that a simple captcha might solve the problem
> as well.
>
> Dan
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>     POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>    MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>    WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>

From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org  Thu Oct 20 11:58:52 2005
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:58:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: Software Development Engineer, Amazon.com, Seattle
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510201157380.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

Software Development Engineer 1

Amazon.com Enterprise Websites Ordering Team is looking for a highly
motivated, experienced Software Engineer to build and maintain reusable
and extensible software for Ordering and Customer Care functions for
Amazon's large merchant accounts. Strong problem solving and
design/analysis skills are a must. The candidate should have a bachelor's
degree in Computer Science, or equivalent experience, and 2+ years of
development experience. Competence in Perl, Unix and C++ are a must.

Software Development Engineer 2

Amazon.com Enterprise Websites Ordering Team is looking for a highly
motivated, experienced Software Engineer to build and maintain reusable
and extensible software for Ordering and Customer Care functions for
Amazon's large merchant accounts. Strong problem solving and analysis
skills and the ability to design generic and scalable solutions are a
must. In addition, the candidate should be able to lead technical efforts
involving multiple interfaces with other Amazon.com teams. The candidate
should have a bachelor's degree in Computer Science, or equivalent
experience, and 6+ years of development experience. Competence in Perl,
Unix and C++, OOAD, service-oriented architectures are a must.

These are full-time positions, The compensation package includes bonus and
stock.  The positions are located in Seattle, WA. Please semd your resume
to mbrands at amazon.com




From andrew at seattleperl.org  Thu Oct 20 12:02:28 2005
From: andrew at seattleperl.org (Andrew Sweger)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: Future of SPUG?
In-Reply-To: <20051020143944.GA2809@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510200959470.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Tim Maher wrote:

> I'm glad Andy was willing to take on the SPUGsponsibility, during
> a difficult time when we didn't even have a regular meeting
> space. But maybe Andy's shoulders are getting tired now, and
> would like some help carrying the load?

Yep, sore shoulders. And I'm working full++ time again.

I love how Tim can light a fire with a few sparks.

I like several of the ideas that are circulating now. I can't think of a
reason why a more distributed user group model would not work. I really
like the business hours meeting idea (now that I'm working 60+ hours a
week) and the place-of-business meetings. Combined with Mike Schuh's call
for tutors and my wish for an apprenticeship model for making new Perl
masters, I could really get into it.

I would like to offer to host small weekly gatherings in my new office
(two couches, 64 square feet of whiteboard, dogs to play with, free
drinks, plenty of bandwidth), but despite it being a very informal
environment (it's a warehouse), there's still a liability concern I
haven't worked around yet.

If there are sufficient murmerings *for* a more official structure in
SPUG, I will setup a schedule for elections (as nominal dictator) to form
a charter and board of directors. HOWEVER, my memory tells me the
murmerings *against* were ahead 4-to-1. Additionally, I've seen formal
structures bring down a couple otherwise worthy organizations (wrong
structure, wrong people, wrong time? I don't know and won't say).

As to the Wiki, a couple folks did a bang up job porting information over
to mediawiki.seattleperl.org. I'm going to switch it in as the official
Wiki soon and move the old one somewhere else (but still available).

-- 
Andrew B. Sweger           |  P.O. Box 33147
President                  |  Seattle WA 98133
Seattle Perl Users Group   |  (206) 219-7119
andrew{at}seattleperl.org  |  http://seattleperl.org/







From timm at gleason.to  Thu Oct 20 20:16:52 2005
From: timm at gleason.to (Timm Gleason)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:16:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: Discount code for O'Reilly orders
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510181521120.24101-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0510202015310.16845-100000@miranda.uranushertz.to>

So I just renewed and upgraded and the DSUG code didn't do anything to
reduced the shown price.  Still the Preimer option offers a $5 savings
over the regular price.



Thursday, October 20 2005
--                             | The shortest Aanswer is doing. -
Timm Gleason                   | George Herbert
http://www.gleason.to/         |
http://www.uranushertz.to/     |
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Andrew Sweger wrote:

> The code should be DSUG. Let me know if that does not work. Especially let
> me know if you get to use it on the Make Premier subscription.
>
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Duane Blanchard wrote:
>
> > I see on the User Groups pages at oreillly.com <http://oreillly.com> that
> > UGs are given a discount code for subscriptions and purchases. Does anyone
> > know our code? I'm upgrading my Make: subscription to Premier.
>
> --
> Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several
>                                 things can go wrong at once.
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List
>      POST TO: spug-list at pm.org
> SUBSCRIPTION: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list
>     MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location: Amazon.com Pac-Med
>     WEB PAGE: http://seattleperl.org/
>


From tim at consultix-inc.com  Fri Oct 21 10:27:14 2005
From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:27:14 -0700
Subject: SPUG: Mind Camp
Message-ID: <20051021172714.GA12818@jumpy.consultix-inc.com>


"What happens when you put 150 of Seattle's smartest geeks in an empty
office building for 24 hours? We're not sure either, but we'd like to
find out. It's time to meet and connect with those involved in the
interesting projects going on in Seattle in a relaxed environment.
Come, camp out, create."

More details here:
http://www.seattlemind.com/index.php/mindcamp/about/
and here:
http://www.seattlemind.com/

Perhaps some SPUGsters would be interested in participating?

-Tim 
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Tim Maher, PhD     (206) 781-UNIX      (866) DOC-PERL     (866) DOC-UNIX |
| tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com  http://TeachMePerl.Com  http://TeachMeUnix.Com |
| CLASSES: Perl and CGI Programming, 11/14-18    UNIX Fundamentals: 12/6-9 |
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
|     Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for UNIX/Linux People"     |
|  See http://minimalperl.com for details, ordering, and email-list signup |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*

From jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org  Mon Oct 24 14:11:31 2005
From: jobs-noreply at seattleperl.org (SPUG Jobs)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPUG: JOB: Wells Fargo, Perl Guru
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0510241410110.22728-100000@gandalf.addnorya.net>

Wells Fargo has an opening for a regular full time employee.  The title of
this role is Application Systems Engineer 4.  I'm sorry, but we are not
currently sponsoring visas for this position.  The description of the role
is as follows:

Perl Guru:

Works on problems involving the evaluation of specifications for complex
business requirements and processes (new, enhancements, maintenance), and
develops and prepares computer solutions.  Performs and leads modeling,
simulations, and analysis efforts.  Verifies program logic by preparing
test data for trial runs, tests and debugs programs. Participates in the
overall systems testing.  Supports the implementation of the application
into production.

Maintains and supports the ImageMark Interface (IMI) application.
Analyzes, responds to and resolves application issues, including
addressing their effects on operational departments.  Communicates to, and
addresses changes with, other team members, operational users and
management.  The position requires periodic rotating 24/7 production
support. Can be in any of the Wells locations supporting ImageMark
(Chandler, AZ; Portland, OR; Dallas/Houston, TX; Des Moines, IA;
Minneapolis, MN; Greenwood Village, CO; Salt Lake City, UT )

Minimum Qualifications:

4 year degree.  Perl expert.  Experience with Perl scripts, shell scripts,
UNIX tools, UNIX OS commands, C++, SQL, Microsoft SQL Server, Pathing;
basic knowledge of Windows 2003/NT/2000.  Good written and verbal
communication skills and organizational skills.  Ability to analyze,
address, and follow to resolution user questions and issues. Good
documentation skills.

Preferred Skills:

Knowledge of UNIX security.  Working knowledge of MQ series messaging
software and Connect Direct NDM.  Experience with NCR ImageMark
application.  NCR MP-RAS experience.

Salary range depends on location but is generally $58,900 - $83,000. This
is a bonus eligible position with full benefits.

If you are interested in this position, please create a profile at
www.wellsfargo.com/jobs and post to requisition #610901