From andrew at sweger.net Wed Sep 8 11:12:38 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Sep 8 11:12:49 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meeting Announcement -- Magicpoint-EZ & SPF - 21 September 2004 Message-ID: September Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting ================================================= Title: Magicpoint-EZ - A Preprocessor for Magicpoint Presentations Speaker: Dr. Tim Maher and Title: SPF - Sender Policy Framework Speaker: Jonathan Gardner Meeting Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 Meeting Time: 7:00 - 9:00 p.m. (networking 6:30 - 7:00) Location: Geospiza 3411 Thorndyke Avenue West (See directions below) Cost: Admission is free and open to the general public Info: http://seattleperl.org/ =========================================== SPUG welcomes back the man who started SPUG, Dr. Tim Maher, to show us more of the labor saving power that can be unleashed with Perl. Also learn how intense the spam game is about to get with Jonathan Gardner's presentation. See details below. We are once again meeting at Geospiza. Expect to see old friends, enemies, and complete strangers all speaking some form of Perl (at every level). Expect to be exposed to 2.4GHz frequency hopping non-ionizing non-licensed radiation (i.e., 802.11b/g WiFi). Packet transit to what's left of the Internet provided gratis (i.e., free as in the beer) by our hosts at Geospiza. If you want to exchange PGP/GnuPG signatures, please contact me with your public key directly (now!) and I'll bring fingerprint checklists for participants. Here's what's in store for you at our next meeting: Magicpoint-EZ - A Preprocessor for Magicpoint Presentations =========================================================== About Dr. Tim Maher: -------------------- Founder, CEO, and lead trainer of Consultix. Tim has over 27 years of experience with the Unix operating system and its associated utilities and languages, as both a system administrator and programmer. Before founding Consultix in 1986, he developed and taught original courses as a professor of Computer Science at a major American university (Univ. of Utah), he developed software as a Sr. Systems Analyst for the university that did more than any other to develop UNIX into what it is today (U. C. Berkeley), and he developed and taught UNIX classes for the company that invented it (AT&T). About the Presentation ---------------------- Magicpoint is a popular open source presentation package with a strange mix of wonderfully advanced and unbearably primitive features. As examples of the latter,there's no practical way to ask for a particular word to be italicized, or for the contents of a specified file to be inserted at an arbitrary position, or even for page numbers to be shown atop each page. Even worse, there's no support for tables or user-defined styles. Don't get me wrong; I'm very fond of Magicpoint. But if there was ever an application in desperate need of a preprocessor to amplify its ergonomics, this is the "mother of all such applications". Magicpoint-EZ to the rescue! It converts text files written in an enhanced Magicpoint dialect into standard Magicpoint format,allowing Magicpoint to be used to view sophisticated presentations -- in spite of its primitive support for their construction. As an added bonus, Magicpoint-EZ also makes the development of presentations more efficient, because the developer typically has to type only 40% of the characters that ultimately appear in the resulting Magicpoint file. Magicpoint-EZ is over one year old, and has been used to create hundreds of impressive slides that have been shown at YAPC, TPC,and Perl mongers meetings -- where attendees have found it hard to believe they were viewing a Magicpoint presentation! This talk will demonstrate the features of Magicpoint-EZ, and describe the pure-Perl code that implements it. Along the way, attendees will learn generally applicable Perl techniques for automating the conversion of one body of text into another. Naturally, the presentation will be developed using Magicpoint-EZ itself, and presented using the standard Magicpoint program. SPF - Sender Policy Framework ============================= About Jonathan Gardner: Jonathan Gardner graduated with a BS in Physics from the University of Washington. He has been a perl developer since 2000. He's worked at CarDomain Networks, Classmates.com, and Smooth Corporation. Now he is a mass mail systems developer at Amazon.com, where he has championed SPF. He also writes a lot of Python code, and actively develops on the PostgreSQL project. His most recent interests include forming an organization to actively market open source technologies in the puget sound area. About the Presentation ---------------------- "SPF fights email address forgery and makes it easier to identify spams, worms, and viruses. Domain owners identify sending mail servers in DNS. SMTP receivers verify the envelope sender address against this information, and can distinguish legitimate mail from spam before any message data is transmitted." (SPF homepage at http://spf.pobox.com/ ) Jonathan Gardner will discuss the history of SPF, the current status of SPF and competing protocols like Domain Keys and Sender ID, as well as the future of SPF. He'll also show how SPF will be one of the steps needed to solve spam once and for all. He'll also show what steps your organization, large or small, need to take to deploy SPF. ================================================================ Directions to Geospiza: ----------------------- Geospiza 3411 Thorndyke Ave. W Seattle, WA 98119 By carpool: (send requests to spug-list@pm.org) ----------- Definitely a more fun way to spend the driving time. By Bus: (http://transit.metrokc.gov/) ------- The 15 & 18 stop at West Dravus Street on 15th Avenue The 44, 46 get to Ballard at Market St & 15th Ave (1/2 mile walk, xfer to 15 or 18 at Walgreen's, request a pick-up) The 75 gets to Ballard 4 blocks from Walgreens (see 44, 46) The 17 stops south of the Ballard Bridge Coming from I-5: ---------------- 1 - EXIT onto 50th Street toward Seattle Pacific University (Larry & Gloria Wall's Alma Mater) 2 - TURN SLIGHT LEFT at light at bottom of hill onto Green Lake Way North (following signs toward Fisherman's Terminal) 3 - TURN SLIGHT RIGHT (following traffic flow) onto N 46th St (Following signs to Ballard) 4 - FOLLOW TRAFFIC WINDING down the hill into Ballard TO JOIN NW 55th Street, which is called Market Steet at this point 5 - TURN LEFT onto 15th Ave NW (a major intersection - Safeway, Walgreens, Denny's) 6 - CROSS the Ballard Bridge 7 - RIGHT EXIT onto West Dravus Street (West Dravus Street is the major overpass over 15th Ave West that leads into Magnolia. It's south of the Ballard Bridge, north of the Interbay Golf Center.) 8 - RIGHT TURN onto West Dravus Street, westbound 9 - STRAIGHT for 2 blocks, passing QFC on right 10 - TURN RIGHT onto 17th Ave West (turns into Thorndyke Ave West) 11 - STRAIGHT for 1.25 blocks 12 - Geospiza is on your left: 3411 Thorndyke Avenue West Coming from Downtown: ===================== 1 - Get onto Elliot Avenue West, heading north 2 - SLIGHT RIGHT onto 15th Avenue West 3 - RIGHT EXIT onto West Dravus Street 4 - TURN LEFT onto West Dravus Street, westbound 5 - You're now within 1/2 mile. See directions above. 6 - STRAIGHT for 2 blocks, passing QFC on right 7 - TURN RIGHT onto 17th Ave West (turns into Thorndyke Ave West) 8 - STRAIGHT for 1.25 blocks 9 - Geospiza is on your left: 3411 Thorndyke Avenue West ================================================================ Mapquest: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=250&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=3411+Thorndyke+Ave.+W&city=Seattle&state=wa&zipcode=&search=++Search++ Yahoo! Maps: http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=XKC6Qup_0ToFdKje6jM_UZzJhylBjoFqlp8tBW5T&csz=seattle%2C+wa&country=us&new=1&name=&qty= From kmeyer at blarg.net Fri Sep 10 13:33:08 2004 From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer) Date: Fri Sep 10 13:31:46 2004 Subject: SPUG: Sep 11th, 2004 GSLUG Meeting: Version Control; Keeping Your Linux Box Patched In-Reply-To: <20040910052337.GA29430@ifokr.org> Message-ID: The September 2004 Greater Seattle Linux Users Group (GSLUG) meeting will be held this Saturday, September 11th, starting promptly at 10:00 AM on the North Seattle Community College campus. Please feel free to forward this announcement as appropriate. ************************************************************* We are confirmed to use room IB 3319. For directions, see the meetings page: http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html ************************************************************* The presentation topics will be: * 10:00am - Version Control Systems: An Introduction Brian Bassett Ever want to contribute to a free software project, only to be baffled by the management of files by the development team? Have you been told to put something in CVS, but have been unable to distinguish your check-ins from your check-outs? This talk will discuss basic version control concepts and will focus on the strengths, weaknesses, and basic user-level experience with four of the main version control systems used today in the free software community: CVS, Subversion, Bitkeeper, and GNU Arch (with a side trip down memory lane with RCS/SCCS). The slides for the talk are available at http://www.bbassett.net/talks/version-control Brian Bassett's Bio: Brian Bassett is a software engineer specializing in release management and the Linux operating system. He has worked as a developer on the Debian GNU/Linux distribution for seven years and acts as a release manager for a number of free software projects, most notably the NJS JavaScript Interpreter, for which he is also the lead developer. --------------- * 11:15am - Keeping your Linux System Patched Jarod C. Wilson Concerned about keeping your Linux system up to date? Want to install additional software, but you keep running into dependency hell? We'll examine some of the utilities that are available for popular distributions, that can take care of these very things for you automatically. Jarod Wilson's Bio: I've been using Linux since 1997, circa Red Hat Linux 4.2 and very early LinuxPPC releases. Only dabbled mostly, until the Red Hat Linux 6.2 era, when I got a job somewhere that used Red Hat extensively. I worked there for about two years, towards the tail end of which I took the Red Hat Certified Engineer exam (and passed the first try -- this test is no joke; it ain't the MCSE). I also maintain a little HOWTO document for setting up a MythTV box running on Fedora Core 1 (soon to be FC2). http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/. As for my personal choice of Linux distribution, yes, I'm pretty much a Red Hat guy, love it or hate it. Almost all my professional work with Linux has been with Red Hat, so I'm just comfortable with it. I like Gentoo and SuSE quite a bit also though. I've tried umpteen other distributions, but those are my favorites. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- The typical GSLUG meeting agenda is as follows: 10:00 AM First Presentation 11:00 AM Break 11:10 AM Raffle Quiz 11:15 AM Second Presentation 12:15 PM Break 12:30 PM Raffle prizes giveaway 12:35 PM GSLUG announcements and business, including discussion of potential future presentation topics Announcements from attendees Requests for assistance with trouble-shooting and installations desired during the ensuing Workshop session 1:00 PM-ish Formal meeting is adjourned; Workshop and social networking opportunities begin, including: * Installation and trouble-shooting assistance For recommendations on preparations to maximize the probability of a successful outcome, it is recommended that you consult the "What to Bring" topic, way down the page at: http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html * Potential break-out discussions about interest-group activities * Informal PGP key signing * Talking, chatting, blathering, etc, etc. 4:00 pm End of meeting -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- GSLUG meetings are held regularly on the second Saturday of the month at 10 AM, currently at North Seattle Community College. Meeting announcements are posted to the gslug-announce mail list. To receive reminders for future GSLUG meetings and notice of other GSLUG activities, you are invited to join the list at: http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-announce Directions, agenda, and presenters' bios will also be posted on the GSLUG website, on the home page and at: http://www.gslug.org/meeting.html You are invited to join the gslug-general discussion list at: http://lists.gslug.org/mailman/listinfo/gslug-general A message board alternative may be found at: http://msgboard.gslug.org/ And a new wiki site is at: http://wiki.gslug.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- The GSLUG Crew From lmzaldivar at mac.com Thu Sep 16 14:02:58 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Thu Sep 16 14:03:01 2004 Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page Message-ID: <8395926.1095361378761.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, I'm trying to parse a web page but I don't understand the following: 1.-I get the content of the page using this script: #!/usr/bin/perl use LWP::Simple; @content=get("http://google.com"); print "$content[0] \n"; 2.-but all the content is $content[0] like if was just one line of content. Any of you know what is going on? Thanks, Luis From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com Thu Sep 16 14:21:00 2004 From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley) Date: Thu Sep 16 14:21:05 2004 Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page In-Reply-To: <8395926.1095361378761.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: Luis, It's not clear what you are wanting to do here. The get returns the contents of the page as a single string, not an array, so you just get one blob that contains the entire page. Usually to get the content out that you want you looks for stuff using regular expressions. Perhaps a bit more info on what you're looking for would help? Thanks, Peter Darley -----Original Message----- From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Luis Medrano Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:03 PM To: Perl List Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page List, I'm trying to parse a web page but I don't understand the following: 1.-I get the content of the page using this script: #!/usr/bin/perl use LWP::Simple; @content=get("http://google.com"); print "$content[0] \n"; 2.-but all the content is $content[0] like if was just one line of content. Any of you know what is going on? Thanks, Luis _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From lmzaldivar at mac.com Thu Sep 16 14:29:33 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Thu Sep 16 14:29:40 2004 Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15652171.1095362973518.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> What I'm triying to do is not to get a blob as you called (everything in one string). what I want to get is the content into in array and my question is how can I do that?. If you can help me or point me on how to do this it will be just great. Thanks, Luis On Thursday, September 16, 2004, at 12:21PM, Peter Darley wrote: >Luis, > It's not clear what you are wanting to do here. The get returns the >contents of the page as a single string, not an array, so you just get one >blob that contains the entire page. Usually to get the content out that you >want you looks for stuff using regular expressions. Perhaps a bit more info >on what you're looking for would help? >Thanks, >Peter Darley > >-----Original Message----- >From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org >[mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Luis Medrano >Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:03 PM >To: Perl List >Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page > > >List, >I'm trying to parse a web page but I don't understand the following: >1.-I get the content of the page using this script: > >#!/usr/bin/perl >use LWP::Simple; >@content=get("http://google.com"); >print "$content[0] \n"; > >2.-but all the content is $content[0] like if was just one line of content. > >Any of you know what is going on? > >Thanks, >Luis > >_____________________________________________________________ >Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org >ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown >WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > > > From umar at drizzle.com Thu Sep 16 14:33:10 2004 From: umar at drizzle.com (Umar Cheema) Date: Thu Sep 16 14:33:16 2004 Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page In-Reply-To: <8395926.1095361378761.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: You can try this: @content= split /\n/, get("http://google.com"); On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Luis Medrano wrote: > List, > I'm trying to parse a web page but I don't understand the following: > 1.-I get the content of the page using this script: > > #!/usr/bin/perl > use LWP::Simple; > @content=get("http://google.com"); > print "$content[0] \n"; > > 2.-but all the content is $content[0] like if was just one line of content. > > Any of you know what is going on? > > Thanks, > Luis > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From pdarley at kinesis-cem.com Thu Sep 16 14:34:23 2004 From: pdarley at kinesis-cem.com (Peter Darley) Date: Thu Sep 16 14:34:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page In-Reply-To: <15652171.1095362973518.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: Luis, The problem is that it comes from the server all as one string. How do you want to break it up? One array element per line? One array element per html tag? What? Thanks, Peter Darley -----Original Message----- From: Luis Medrano [mailto:lmzaldivar@mac.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:30 PM To: Peter Darley Cc: Perl List Subject: RE: SPUG: parsing a web page What I'm triying to do is not to get a blob as you called (everything in one string). what I want to get is the content into in array and my question is how can I do that?. If you can help me or point me on how to do this it will be just great. Thanks, Luis On Thursday, September 16, 2004, at 12:21PM, Peter Darley wrote: >Luis, > It's not clear what you are wanting to do here. The get returns the >contents of the page as a single string, not an array, so you just get one >blob that contains the entire page. Usually to get the content out that you >want you looks for stuff using regular expressions. Perhaps a bit more info >on what you're looking for would help? >Thanks, >Peter Darley > >-----Original Message----- >From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org >[mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of Luis Medrano >Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:03 PM >To: Perl List >Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page > > >List, >I'm trying to parse a web page but I don't understand the following: >1.-I get the content of the page using this script: > >#!/usr/bin/perl >use LWP::Simple; >@content=get("http://google.com"); >print "$content[0] \n"; > >2.-but all the content is $content[0] like if was just one line of content. > >Any of you know what is going on? > >Thanks, >Luis > >_____________________________________________________________ >Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org >ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown >WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > > > From cmeyer at helvella.org Thu Sep 16 14:36:27 2004 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Thu Sep 16 14:36:30 2004 Subject: SPUG: parsing a web page In-Reply-To: <15652171.1095362973518.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <15652171.1095362973518.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040916193627.GH2329@funpox.helvella.org> Hi Luis, On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 12:29:33PM -0700, Luis Medrano wrote: > > What I'm triying to do is not to get a blob as you called (everything > in one string). what I want to get is the content into in array and my > question is how can I do that?. If you can help me or point me on how > to do this it will be just great. It might help if you explain what you wish to do with the webpage content after you have retrieved it. There are various ways to deal with it, and depending on what you are after, it may or may not make sense to put it into an array. -Colin. From andrew at sweger.net Thu Sep 16 18:05:42 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Thu Sep 16 18:05:52 2004 Subject: SPUG: JOB: Perl Guru needed for Chinese/Korean linguistics projects Message-ID: Perl Guru for Chinese/Korean Linguistics Projects Are you an expert Perl developer, with a desire to work in a fast-paced corporate research environment? Do you have an interest in or experience with Asian languages or linguistics? Are you experienced in working on a Windows platform, doing integration of multiple layers of scripting solutions? We want your experience! The Butler Hill Group is seeking an excellent developer showing attention to detail, strong scripting skills in Perl, and enthusiasm for language, for a one-year full-time contract (extensions are possible for the right person) doing experiment/research support, data gathering, and tools/system development for a dynamic linguistics research group. You'd work largely on-site with a client in Redmond, Washington, though part-time telecommuting is an option. The Butler Hill Group offers a fun, supportive work environment with low administrative overhead and few hassles. Rates start at $35.00/hr (paid as 1099 self-employment income), but the contract comes with no other benefits. The Butler Hill Group is a small contracting company, based in cyberspace, specializing in computational linguistics research support and data collection. The current contract is in support of a machine translation research project for our client. Requirements are: * expert programming in Perl for Windows, including complex string-handling * some C++ or C# * proven track record in a fast-paced, multitasking environment * excellent communications skills in English * local to the Puget Sound area - able to work on-site with the client in Redmond approximately 3 days per week (telecommute the rest of the time). * US work authorization (sorry, but we cannot sponsor employment visas). * detail-oriented nature * experience with large, complex textual datasets * experience with multiple codepages under Windows, including Unicode and non-Western character sets * reading knowledge of either Chinese (traditional or simplified) or Korean The ideal candidate will also have: * XML * background in language or linguistics, or interest in language or linguistics * experience with experimental design or running experiments * statistics, especially experience with statistical NLP methods To apply, please contact mco@butlerhill.com with a current resume and a cover letter stating: * languages spoken and fluency level in reading * available dates Mo Corston-Oliver Butler Hill Group From andrew at sweger.net Sat Sep 18 02:48:54 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Sat Sep 18 02:49:03 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meeting REMINDER -- Magicpoint-EZ & SPF - 21 September 2004 Message-ID: Don't forget. It's this Tuesday! September Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Meeting ================================================= Title: Magicpoint-EZ - A Preprocessor for Magicpoint Presentations Speaker: Dr. Tim Maher and Title: SPF - Sender Policy Framework Speaker: Jonathan Gardner Meeting Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 Meeting Time: 7:00 - 9:00 p.m. (networking 6:30 - 7:00) Location: Geospiza 3411 Thorndyke Avenue West (See directions below) Cost: Admission is free and open to the general public Info: http://seattleperl.org/ =========================================== SPUG welcomes back the man who started SPUG, Dr. Tim Maher, to show us more of the labor saving power that can be unleashed with Perl. Also learn how intense the spam game is about to get with Jonathan Gardner's presentation. See details below. We are once again meeting at Geospiza. Expect to see old friends, enemies, and complete strangers all speaking some form of Perl (at every level). Expect to be exposed to 2.4GHz frequency hopping non-ionizing non-licensed radiation (i.e., 802.11b/g WiFi). Packet transit to what's left of the Internet provided gratis (i.e., free as in the beer) by our hosts at Geospiza. If you want to exchange PGP/GnuPG signatures, please contact me with your public key directly (now!) and I'll bring fingerprint checklists for participants. Here's what's in store for you at our next meeting: Magicpoint-EZ - A Preprocessor for Magicpoint Presentations =========================================================== About Dr. Tim Maher: -------------------- Founder, CEO, and lead trainer of Consultix. Tim has over 27 years of experience with the Unix operating system and its associated utilities and languages, as both a system administrator and programmer. Before founding Consultix in 1986, he developed and taught original courses as a professor of Computer Science at a major American university (Univ. of Utah), he developed software as a Sr. Systems Analyst for the university that did more than any other to develop UNIX into what it is today (U. C. Berkeley), and he developed and taught UNIX classes for the company that invented it (AT&T). About the Presentation ---------------------- Magicpoint is a popular open source presentation package with a strange mix of wonderfully advanced and unbearably primitive features. As examples of the latter,there's no practical way to ask for a particular word to be italicized, or for the contents of a specified file to be inserted at an arbitrary position, or even for page numbers to be shown atop each page. Even worse, there's no support for tables or user-defined styles. Don't get me wrong; I'm very fond of Magicpoint. But if there was ever an application in desperate need of a preprocessor to amplify its ergonomics, this is the "mother of all such applications". Magicpoint-EZ to the rescue! It converts text files written in an enhanced Magicpoint dialect into standard Magicpoint format,allowing Magicpoint to be used to view sophisticated presentations -- in spite of its primitive support for their construction. As an added bonus, Magicpoint-EZ also makes the development of presentations more efficient, because the developer typically has to type only 40% of the characters that ultimately appear in the resulting Magicpoint file. Magicpoint-EZ is over one year old, and has been used to create hundreds of impressive slides that have been shown at YAPC, TPC,and Perl mongers meetings -- where attendees have found it hard to believe they were viewing a Magicpoint presentation! This talk will demonstrate the features of Magicpoint-EZ, and describe the pure-Perl code that implements it. Along the way, attendees will learn generally applicable Perl techniques for automating the conversion of one body of text into another. Naturally, the presentation will be developed using Magicpoint-EZ itself, and presented using the standard Magicpoint program. SPF - Sender Policy Framework ============================= About Jonathan Gardner: Jonathan Gardner graduated with a BS in Physics from the University of Washington. He has been a perl developer since 2000. He's worked at CarDomain Networks, Classmates.com, and Smooth Corporation. Now he is a mass mail systems developer at Amazon.com, where he has championed SPF. He also writes a lot of Python code, and actively develops on the PostgreSQL project. His most recent interests include forming an organization to actively market open source technologies in the puget sound area. About the Presentation ---------------------- "SPF fights email address forgery and makes it easier to identify spams, worms, and viruses. Domain owners identify sending mail servers in DNS. SMTP receivers verify the envelope sender address against this information, and can distinguish legitimate mail from spam before any message data is transmitted." (SPF homepage at http://spf.pobox.com/ ) Jonathan Gardner will discuss the history of SPF, the current status of SPF and competing protocols like Domain Keys and Sender ID, as well as the future of SPF. He'll also show how SPF will be one of the steps needed to solve spam once and for all. He'll also show what steps your organization, large or small, need to take to deploy SPF. ================================================================ Directions to Geospiza: ----------------------- Geospiza 3411 Thorndyke Ave. W Seattle, WA 98119 By carpool: (send requests to spug-list@pm.org) ----------- Definitely a more fun way to spend the driving time. By Bus: (http://transit.metrokc.gov/) ------- The 15 & 18 stop at West Dravus Street on 15th Avenue The 44, 46 get to Ballard at Market St & 15th Ave (1/2 mile walk, xfer to 15 or 18 at Walgreen's, request a pick-up) The 75 gets to Ballard 4 blocks from Walgreens (see 44, 46) The 17 stops south of the Ballard Bridge Coming from I-5: ---------------- 1 - EXIT onto 50th Street toward Seattle Pacific University (Larry & Gloria Wall's Alma Mater) 2 - TURN SLIGHT LEFT at light at bottom of hill onto Green Lake Way North (following signs toward Fisherman's Terminal) 3 - TURN SLIGHT RIGHT (following traffic flow) onto N 46th St (Following signs to Ballard) 4 - FOLLOW TRAFFIC WINDING down the hill into Ballard TO JOIN NW 55th Street, which is called Market Steet at this point 5 - TURN LEFT onto 15th Ave NW (a major intersection - Safeway, Walgreens, Denny's) 6 - CROSS the Ballard Bridge 7 - RIGHT EXIT onto West Dravus Street (West Dravus Street is the major overpass over 15th Ave West that leads into Magnolia. It's south of the Ballard Bridge, north of the Interbay Golf Center.) 8 - RIGHT TURN onto West Dravus Street, westbound 9 - STRAIGHT for 2 blocks, passing QFC on right 10 - TURN RIGHT onto 17th Ave West (turns into Thorndyke Ave West) 11 - STRAIGHT for 1.25 blocks 12 - Geospiza is on your left: 3411 Thorndyke Avenue West Coming from Downtown: ===================== 1 - Get onto Elliot Avenue West, heading north 2 - SLIGHT RIGHT onto 15th Avenue West 3 - RIGHT EXIT onto West Dravus Street 4 - TURN LEFT onto West Dravus Street, westbound 5 - You're now within 1/2 mile. See directions above. 6 - STRAIGHT for 2 blocks, passing QFC on right 7 - TURN RIGHT onto 17th Ave West (turns into Thorndyke Ave West) 8 - STRAIGHT for 1.25 blocks 9 - Geospiza is on your left: 3411 Thorndyke Avenue West ================================================================ Mapquest: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=250&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=3411+Thorndyke+Ave.+W&city=Seattle&state=wa&zipcode=&search=++Search++ Yahoo! Maps: http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=XKC6Qup_0ToFdKje6jM_UZzJhylBjoFqlp8tBW5T&csz=seattle%2C+wa&country=us&new=1&name=&qty= _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From mathin at mathin.com Mon Sep 20 10:56:33 2004 From: mathin at mathin.com (Dan Ebert) Date: Mon Sep 20 10:56:36 2004 Subject: SPUG: Dying Children Message-ID: I have a script which forks of a child process to write a file while the parent script goes on to collect the data for the next file. I'm keeping track of the number of file writing children so I don't have too many writers at one time. I have a debug print statement right before the exit in the child process: print "done writing file\n"; exit; I am noticing that there are sometimes several seconds between the print and the actual death of the child. This is delaying the forking of the next child which is slowing the script down. Has anyone seen this before? Thanks, Dan. ---------------------------------------------------------- Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery. - Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- From jsl at blarg.net Mon Sep 20 14:26:17 2004 From: jsl at blarg.net (Jim Ludwig) Date: Mon Sep 20 14:26:25 2004 Subject: SPUG: Dying Children In-Reply-To: (message from Dan Ebert on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:56:33 -0700 (PDT)) Message-ID: I assume you're keeping track of your child processes with a hash or something: my %file_writers = (); How is your child dying? Along the lines of the following?: $SIG{'CHLD'} = \&file_writer_died; # ... my $pid = fork(); if ( $pid ) { # parent $file_writers{$pid} = 1; # or whatever } else { # child writes or whatever } # ... sub file_writer_died { local( $SIG{'CHLD'} ) = \&file_writer_died; my $pid = wait(); delete( $file_writers{$pid} ); } Or maybe your STDOUT output is buffered, and you want to force a flush immediately after every write/print? select(( select( STDOUT ), $| = 1 )[0] ); Hope that's useful, jim >> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:56:33 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Dan Ebert >> To: >> Subject: SPUG: Dying Children >> >> I have a script which forks of a child process >> to write a file while the parent script goes on >> to collect the data for the next file. I'm >> keeping track of the number of file writing >> children so I don't have too many writers at >> one time. I have a debug print statement right >> before the exit in the child process: >> >> print "done writing file\n"; >> exit; >> >> I am noticing that there are sometimes several >> seconds between the print and the actual death >> of the child. This is delaying the forking of >> the next child which is slowing the script >> down. Has anyone seen this before? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dan. From mathin at mathin.com Mon Sep 20 14:47:18 2004 From: mathin at mathin.com (Dan Ebert) Date: Mon Sep 20 14:47:22 2004 Subject: SPUG: Dying Children In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ha. I think I have solved my own question so I thought I'd post what I found out. The child processes have a decent sized chunk of data (a hash with up to 500,000 keys). When an 'exit' is called Perl does some memory de-allocation which takes time, hence the delay. You can get around this by calling POSIX::_exit(0). (I know you are not supposed to use &_ sub routines from a module :), but this was suggested by the Camel book as a way of avoiding the execution of END blocks, so what the hell.) It bypasses the destructor processing (and END blocks). I think that since the child is a separate process, the system just reclaims the memory when it dies anyway. I kept a close eye on the memory usage with top while the script was running and I didn't see any problems. If anyone sees any problems I'm overlooking here I'd appreciate hearing about them. Thanks! Dan. ---------------------------------------------------------- Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery. - Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Dan Ebert wrote: > > I have a script which forks of a child process to write a file while the > parent script goes on to collect the data for the next file. I'm keeping > track of the number of file writing children so I don't have too many > writers at one time. I have a debug print statement right before the > exit in the child process: > > print "done writing file\n"; > exit; > > I am noticing that there are sometimes several seconds between the print > and the actual death of the child. This is delaying the forking of the > next child which is slowing the script down. Has anyone seen this before? > > Thanks, > > Dan. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery. > - Unknown > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From mathin at mathin.com Mon Sep 20 14:51:39 2004 From: mathin at mathin.com (Dan Ebert) Date: Mon Sep 20 14:51:52 2004 Subject: SPUG: Dying Children In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's a snippet of what it was doing: $SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER; $children++; my $pid = fork unless($pid) { #do child stuff exit; } ub REAPER { my $stiff; while(($stiff = waitpid(-1, &WNOHANG)) > 0) { $children--; } $SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER; } I changed the 'exit' to POSIX::_exit(0) and it is no longer delaying the death. Dan. ---------------------------------------------------------- Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery. - Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Jim Ludwig wrote: > I assume you're keeping track of your child > processes with a hash or something: > > my %file_writers = (); > > How is your child dying? Along the lines of the > following?: > > $SIG{'CHLD'} = \&file_writer_died; > > # ... > > my $pid = fork(); > if ( $pid ) { > # parent > $file_writers{$pid} = 1; # or whatever > } > else { > # child writes or whatever > } > > # ... > > sub file_writer_died { > local( $SIG{'CHLD'} ) = \&file_writer_died; > my $pid = wait(); > delete( $file_writers{$pid} ); > } > > Or maybe your STDOUT output is buffered, and you > want to force a flush immediately after every > write/print? > > select(( select( STDOUT ), $| = 1 )[0] ); > > Hope that's useful, > jim > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:56:33 -0700 (PDT) > >> From: Dan Ebert > >> To: > >> Subject: SPUG: Dying Children > >> > >> I have a script which forks of a child process > >> to write a file while the parent script goes on > >> to collect the data for the next file. I'm > >> keeping track of the number of file writing > >> children so I don't have too many writers at > >> one time. I have a debug print statement right > >> before the exit in the child process: > >> > >> print "done writing file\n"; > >> exit; > >> > >> I am noticing that there are sometimes several > >> seconds between the print and the actual death > >> of the child. This is delaying the forking of > >> the next child which is slowing the script > >> down. Has anyone seen this before? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Dan. > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From andrew at sweger.net Mon Sep 20 16:26:12 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Mon Sep 20 16:26:19 2004 Subject: SPUG: Don't forget: SPUG tomorrow evening Message-ID: The details are at http://seattleperl.org/ Tim's going to show how making good Magicpoint presentations even easier with Magicpoint-EZ. Get it? Easy = EZ. Does this mean the IRS has a sense of humor (form 1040EZ)? And Jonathan's going to talk about SPF. Now that AOL has rejected Microsoft's patent encumbered Sender ID, you can expect SPF adoption to really take off. People running mail servers (MTAs) without SPF will be considered with the same contempt as those running open relays. If you have control over your DNS, it couldn't be any easier to participate. Jonathan will set you on the path to spam salvation. And I'll have a special announcement to make at the meeting. Don't worry, I'll post it here sometime after the meeting. It's only fair for meeting attendees to hear it first. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From sthoenna at efn.org Mon Sep 20 20:07:12 2004 From: sthoenna at efn.org (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) Date: Mon Sep 20 20:07:11 2004 Subject: SPUG: Dying Children In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040921010712.GB5728@efn.org> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 12:47:18PM -0700, Dan Ebert wrote: > You can get around this by calling POSIX::_exit(0). (I know you are not > supposed to use &_ sub routines from a module :), but this was suggested > by the Camel book as a way of avoiding the execution of END blocks, so > what the hell.) It bypasses the destructor processing (and END blocks). In this case, the _ doesn't indicate a module-private sub, it indicates that it calls the C _exit function: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/_exit.html The main concern is that file buffers may not be flushed. I'm curious to know more about the situation you have; are you using glibc? If so, what version? Are these things being freed objects? Referred to by objects? From mathin at mathin.com Tue Sep 21 10:38:36 2004 From: mathin at mathin.com (Dan Ebert) Date: Tue Sep 21 10:38:43 2004 Subject: SPUG: Dying Children In-Reply-To: <20040921010712.GB5728@efn.org> Message-ID: The things being freed are hashes (actually hashrefs). They are not refered to by anything else. This is basically how it is set up (the loop is a bit more complex than this and there is more processing in the hash building, but this is the nuts and bolts. It is just a simple hash, and the writeFile sub just sorts and writes the keys to a file.): my %hash; foreach my $blah (@data) { # build hash $hash{$blah} = 1; if(condition) { #fork off child my $pid = fork; unless($pid) { &writeFile(\%hash) POSIX::_exit(0); } # clear hash for new data %hash = (); } } Dan. ---------------------------------------------------------- Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery. - Unknown ---------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: > On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 12:47:18PM -0700, Dan Ebert wrote: > > You can get around this by calling POSIX::_exit(0). (I know you are not > > supposed to use &_ sub routines from a module :), but this was suggested > > by the Camel book as a way of avoiding the execution of END blocks, so > > what the hell.) It bypasses the destructor processing (and END blocks). > > In this case, the _ doesn't indicate a module-private sub, it indicates that > it calls the C _exit function: > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/_exit.html > > The main concern is that file buffers may not be flushed. > > I'm curious to know more about the situation you have; are you using glibc? > If so, what version? Are these things being freed objects? Referred to > by objects? > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From andrew at sweger.net Tue Sep 21 14:57:08 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Tue Sep 21 14:57:15 2004 Subject: SPUG: Commissioning a script to mechanize web access Message-ID: According to Tim Maher's understanding: Private individual needs a script for Win98SE that will repeatedly click on the same link until the desired result page shows up (HINT: WWW::Mechanize), and then beep or something to attract the operator's attention. Using Netscape 7.1, or IE 6.02 Willing to pay. Contact oas@usa.net From m3047 at inwa.net Tue Sep 21 20:12:16 2004 From: m3047 at inwa.net (Fred Morris) Date: Tue Sep 21 20:20:54 2004 Subject: SPUG: Commissioning a script to mechanize web access Message-ID: At 12:57 PM 9/21/04, Andrew Sweger wrote: >According to Tim Maher's understanding: No slight intended on Mr. Maher's understanding, as imperfect as it might be I am sure mine is less so. >Private individual needs a script for Win98SE that will repeatedly click >on the same link until the desired result page shows up (HINT: >WWW::Mechanize), and then beep or something to attract the operator's >attention. First, I would assume that they'd want a userland script, not a server-based solution (I use that word advisedly, usually feeling it to be reserved to trajectory specialists, puzzlers, and the like). Countermeasures: I've noticed that the registrars in particular of late have taken to watermarks with a passphrase or number which has to be recognized and then entered to continue. There are also JavaScript "combination lock" snares. The 'bot motel (12 code lines targeting Apache.pm) comes to mind. >[...] > >Willing to pay. Maybe Pud would do it.. -- fredm3047@inwa.net From andrew at sweger.net Wed Sep 22 10:30:12 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Sep 22 10:30:20 2004 Subject: SPUG: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 is released Message-ID: What do you know? We were just talking about SpamAssassin 3.0 with its support for SPF last night at the meeting wondering when it will be released. And now it is. Go forth and assassinate spam. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Daniel Quinlan To: announce@apache.org Date: 22 Sep 2004 13:14:06 -0000 Subject: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 is released X-spam-level: Forest Hill, MD - September 22, 2004 -- The Apache Software Foundation is pleased to announce the release of SpamAssassin 3.0. SpamAssassin 3.0 contains a number of new technologies designed to protect against the changing techniques used by spammers. This is the first SpamAssassin release as an Apache Software Foundation project and under the Apache License. The release is available from the Apache SpamAssassin web site (http://spamassassin.apache.org/) via the Apache mirror network. SpamAssassin 3.0 delivers many new features including support for sender authentication using the Sender Policy Framework (SPF), checking for web links of known spam advertisers, a modular plugin architecture, improved SQL database support for storing user data in server installations, and improved email classification. SpamAssassin's practical multi-technique approach, modularity, and extensibility continue to give it an advantage over other anti-spam systems. Due to these advantages, SpamAssassin is widely used in all aspects of email management. You can readily find SpamAssassin in use in both email clients and servers, on many different operating systems, filtering incoming as well as outgoing email, and implementing a very broad range of policy actions. These installations include service providers, businesses, not-for-profit and educational organizations, and end-user systems. SpamAssassin also forms the basis for numerous commercial anti-spam products available on the market today. About SpamAssassin SpamAssassin is an intelligent email filter which uses a diverse range of tests to identify unsolicited bulk email, more commonly known as "spam". These tests are applied to email headers and content to classify email using advanced statistical methods. In addition, SpamAssassin has a modular architecture that allows other technologies to be quickly wielded against spam and is designed for easy integration into virtually any email system. About the Apache Software Foundation The Apache Software Foundation provides organizational, legal, and financial support for a broad range of open source software projects. As a US 501(c)(3) public charity, the Foundation provides an established framework for contributions of both intellectual property and funding for the support of open source software development. Through a collaborative and meritocratic development process, Apache projects deliver enterprise-grade, freely available software products for the public benefit, attracting large communities of users and enabling future innovation, both commercial and individual, through its pragmatic Apache License. Press Contact: press@apache.org From andrew at sweger.net Wed Sep 22 10:57:40 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Sep 22 10:57:47 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? Message-ID: C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi was for Safeco). So, what do folks think about this? Some information I already know folks will need include: access from freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? Discuss. (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable future.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From andrew at sweger.net Wed Sep 22 11:03:12 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Sep 22 11:03:19 2004 Subject: SPUG: Jonathan Swartz of Mason fame in November Message-ID: Jonathan Swartz of Mason fame has offered to give a presentation on Mason at the 16 November meeting of SPUG. More details as they come in. But what about October? Well, what about it? Who has something (remotely) Perlish they'd like to share? Just think of the fame and fortune that could be waiting for you. It worked for me! Would anyone like to dispell the mysteries of push/pop/shift/unshift and reveal their awesome power to folks just getting started with Perl. It's time to pass on what you have learned so more people can fall in love with Perl. (I wonder how many spam filters this email will trigger.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Sep 22 11:09:10 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Wed Sep 22 11:09:22 2004 Subject: SPUG: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 is released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040922160910.GA2549@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 08:30:12AM -0700, Andrew Sweger wrote: > What do you know? We were just talking about SpamAssassin 3.0 with its > support for SPF last night at the meeting wondering when it will be > released. And now it is. Go forth and assassinate spam. > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several I installed it this morning, but was unable to get Net::DNS to pass its tests, and install, so I've been unable to convert my old databases using the recommended "sa -learn --sync" command. Any insights into fixing that? The problem is that t/10-recurse gets undef'd values returned on several calls, which is a fatal error. *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | | Classes: UNIX Fundamentals for "Power Users", October 4-7, Seattle WA | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Sep 22 11:24:33 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Wed Sep 22 11:24:44 2004 Subject: SPUG: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 is released In-Reply-To: <20040922160910.GA2549@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> References: <20040922160910.GA2549@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> Message-ID: <20040922162433.GA2727@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> I've included the test output for Net::DNS below, in the hope that somebody knows a fix for the errors. -Tim On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 09:09:10AM -0700, Tim Maher wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 08:30:12AM -0700, Andrew Sweger wrote: > > What do you know? We were just talking about SpamAssassin 3.0 with its > > support for SPF last night at the meeting wondering when it will be > > released. And now it is. Go forth and assassinate spam. > > Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several > > I installed it this morning, but was unable to get Net::DNS to > pass its tests, and install, so I've been unable to convert > my old databases using the recommended "sa -learn --sync" > command. Any insights into fixing that? > > The problem is that t/10-recurse gets undef'd values returned > on several calls, which is a fatal error. > > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 /usr/local/bin/perl "-MExtUtils::Command::MM" "-e" "test_harness(0, 'blib/lib', 'blib/arch')" t/*.t t/00-load..................ok t/00-pod...................ok t/00-version...............ok t/01-resolver-env..........ok t/01-resolver-file.........ok 7/8 skipped: Could not read configuration file t/01-resolver-opt..........ok t/01-resolver..............ok t/02-header................ok t/03-question..............ok t/04-packet-unique-push....ok t/04-packet................ok t/05-rr-sshfp..............skipped all skipped: Digest::BubbleBabble not installed. t/05-rr-txt................ok t/05-rr-unknown............ok t/05-rr....................ok t/06-update................ok t/07-misc..................ok t/08-online................ok t/09-tkey..................ok t/10-recurse...............Server [198.41.0.4] did not give answers at /root/.cpan/build/Net-DNS-0.48/blib/lib/Net/DNS/Resolver/Recurse.pm line 73. # Failed test (t/10-recurse.t at line 30) # Failed test (t/10-recurse.t at line 36) Can't call method "answer" on an undefined value at t/10-recurse.t line 37. # Looks like you planned 12 tests but only ran 5. # Looks like your test died just after 5. dubious Test returned status 255 (wstat 65280, 0xff00) DIED. FAILED tests 4-12 Failed 9/12 tests, 25.00% okay Failed 1/20 test scripts, 95.00% okay. 9/872 subtests failed, 98.97% okay. Failed Test Stat Wstat Total Fail Failed List of Failed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- t/10-recurse.t 255 65280 12 16 133.33% 4-12 1 test and 7 subtests skipped. make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 2 From carswell at amazon.com Wed Sep 22 11:33:48 2004 From: carswell at amazon.com (Carswell, David) Date: Wed Sep 22 11:32:52 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meeting at Amazon.com (PacMed) Message-ID: <43C8CB9299A8824A973236A4D00E8DF70F4653@ex-mail-sea-03.ant.amazon.com> I have been a lurker on the list (on my personal email) for awhile, but haven't attended a meeting, yet. I am also Amazonian, and would love to help make this happen. Pls. let me know what I can do to help. David Carswell From bill at celestial.com Wed Sep 22 11:53:53 2004 From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell) Date: Wed Sep 22 11:54:02 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040922165353.GA84622@alexis.mi.celestial.com> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004, Andrew Sweger wrote: >C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, >has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our >monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near >the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years >we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to >meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and >will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi >was for Safeco). > >So, what do folks think about this? I like the idea (but then I would as it's probably 30 minutes closer to me than the current meeting place :-). >Some information I already know folks will need include: access from >freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet >access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting >activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll >work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in >town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? Parking shouldn't be a problem there in the evening. There's a fair amount of space in the circle in front of the building, and another lot on the back side that I think is available for things like this. Access from downtown, I-5, and I-90 is quite good. It's probably five minutes from the International District (House of Hong is one of my favorites on Jackson practically under I-5). Bill -- INTERNET: bill@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ ``It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!'' -- Emiliano Zapata. From scott+spug at mail.dsab.rresearch.com Wed Sep 22 12:15:37 2004 From: scott+spug at mail.dsab.rresearch.com (Scott Blachowicz) Date: Wed Sep 22 12:17:01 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? In-Reply-To: <20040922165353.GA84622@alexis.mi.celestial.com> References: <20040922165353.GA84622@alexis.mi.celestial.com> Message-ID: <20040922171653.F34E21E31@sabami.seaslug.org> Bill Campbell wrote: > >So, what do folks think about this? > > I like the idea (but then I would as it's probably 30 minutes > closer to me than the current meeting place :-). Me too, but I work there, too :). > Parking shouldn't be a problem there in the evening. There's a fair amount > of space in the circle in front of the building, and another lot on the > back side that I think is available for things like this. Yeah - there's an attendant booth there, but it's only manned during the day. In the evening it's open access to the lot near the building. There's a bigger lower lot, but I believe it's gated with a key card needed for access all the time. You might have to enter at the front for security reasons anyways. There's also on-street parking next to the building area that ought to be open in the evenings as well. > Access from downtown, I-5, and I-90 is quite good. It's probably five > minutes from the International District (House of Hong is one of my > favorites on Jackson practically under I-5). Within a 15-20 minute walk of the building is most of the Intl District. Also, Metro routes 36 & 60 (IIRC) stop right next to the building. Scott From james at banshee.com Wed Sep 22 14:42:02 2004 From: james at banshee.com (James Moore) Date: Wed Sep 22 14:42:25 2004 Subject: SPUG: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 is released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200409221941.i8MJfPS00910@server2.chocolatelust.com> Two things that have bitten me so far with 3.0: 1. I had procmail files using spamassassin -a. That option no longer exists. 2. Similar to Tim, I had an issue with the Bayesian (sp?) database; I was getting a warning message : bayes: bayes db version 2 is not able to be used, aborting! Rather than trying to solve the problem, I hit it with the hammer of rm -rf .spamassassin Figuring that, while backwards compatability is a nice thing, it's probably safer on the bleeding edge to just start from scratch. - James From cos at indeterminate.net Wed Sep 22 15:51:46 2004 From: cos at indeterminate.net (John Costello) Date: Wed Sep 22 15:51:52 2004 Subject: SPUG: ADSI interface *from* *NIX? Message-ID: Is there an ADSI interface from *NIX, either in Perl or not, preferably for Solaris or Linux? My understanding of the various Perl modules is that they require a Windows platform, but I have a need to talk to ADSI from Unix. John ----- John Costello - cos at indeterminate dot net "If you are afraid of butter, use cream."--Julia Child From cos at indeterminate.net Wed Sep 22 16:52:58 2004 From: cos at indeterminate.net (John Costello) Date: Wed Sep 22 16:53:03 2004 Subject: SPUG: ADSI interface *from* *NIX? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, John Costello wrote: > Is there an ADSI interface from *NIX, either in Perl or not, preferably > for Solaris or Linux? My understanding of the various Perl modules is > that they require a Windows platform, but I have a need to talk to ADSI > from Unix. Answering my own question after further searching: Net::LDAP will let me hook into ADSI without the underlying Microsoft framework, though I'll have to hop through a couple of hoops. Cheers, John ----- John Costello - cos at indeterminate dot net "If you are afraid of butter, use cream."--Julia Child From cjcollier at colliertech.org Thu Sep 23 10:39:48 2004 From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (C.J. Collier) Date: Thu Sep 23 10:41:05 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon Message-ID: Hey all, There is in fact free parking in the lot on the north side of the building. We will have to walk between the main building and parking building to get around to the front, but it's not a big deal. Internet access is limited to Amazon employees only. As a contractor, I don't even have access to their intranet. This is going to be a sticky point, and if it is violated, they will likely become upset. I will put together a "how to get to Amazon" document when I get a chance. Unless someone else has the time and knowledge? The room is large. It's big enough to hold around 50 people. If we know one of our meetings is going to be very large, we can probably reserve the middle room which I guess can hold as many as 100 people. I can even look into pulling down one of the separators and joining the rooms. I don't think the size of the meeting place is going to be a problem. My friend Bill and I walk from Weller street to PacMed in about 5 minutes. The International District and its abundant pre- and post-func locations are about equidistant. If we have a qualified cat herder we can walk from Pac Med to the ID in as little 15 minutes. We have access to the projectors. I will be responsible for checking it out and returning it unharmed. Can any of you longer-time Amazonians on the list clarify at all? Cheers, C.J. On Wed, Sep 22, 2004, Andrew Sweger wrote: C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi was for Safeco). So, what do folks think about this? Some information I already know folks will need include: access from freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? Discuss. (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable future.) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2650 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/spug-list/attachments/20040923/424d701d/attachment.bin From rizvi at amazon.com Thu Sep 23 12:03:46 2004 From: rizvi at amazon.com (Rizvi, Ali) Date: Thu Sep 23 12:02:54 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? Message-ID: <55C0724D26281F40A605FB85F11044347A5013@ex-mail-sea-04.ant.amazon.com> I think it would be awesome to have the meeting at Amazon. I am an amazonian and ofcourse, I am biased by my laziness to travel far but as far as I know Laziness is one of the virtues of a perl hacker. :-) I am looking forward to attend the first meeting at PacMed soon. Thanks for all the effort on the organizers part to make it happen. Ali -----Original Message----- From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sweger Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:58 AM To: Seattle Perl Users Group Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi was for Safeco). So, what do folks think about this? Some information I already know folks will need include: access from freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? Discuss. (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable future.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From kmeyer at blarg.net Thu Sep 23 12:47:40 2004 From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer) Date: Thu Sep 23 12:46:19 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you don't have any access to the "outside" Internet at all that could be shared with you being responsible party, it seems to me that, from that promontory, it is very likely that you could create a completely independent Inet connection via some outside 802.11 access point, especially if the conference room has reasonable visibility north and/or east. You might need to use a directional antenna of some sort external to the transceiver card. Perhaps such a connection could be bridged to allow sharing by the user group attendees via a local AP. In any event, at least the presenter could have access outside, which at GSLUG, we have found to be an important capability desired by most presenters in order to show related sites and/or to access information on their own home machines. You might even be able to find some "legitimate" 802.11 connections. If there is any potential feasibility in this WiFi approach, one thing that I would do is to consult www.seattlewireless.net for potential nodes maintained by "associates" of that organization that you might be able to "see" from Jeff's Conceit. I know that some of the main proponents of SWN have nodes on Cap Hill, but I'm not sure that they are visible from the south. Another thing that I just learned at a recent GSLUG meeting at NSCC is that an individual machine could acquire a DHCP IP address there without joining the internal network -- just "not part of the school's domain" was the explanation. So they were able to see outside without having access to the school's internal network. Perhaps you could investigate that possibility, even via some person who is not a new employee such as you apparently are. Ken Meyer -----Original Message----- From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]On Behalf Of C.J. Collier Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:40 AM To: spug-list@pm.org Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon Hey all, There is in fact free parking in the lot on the north side of the building. We will have to walk between the main building and parking building to get around to the front, but it's not a big deal. Internet access is limited to Amazon employees only. As a contractor, I don't even have access to their intranet. This is going to be a sticky point, and if it is violated, they will likely become upset. I will put together a "how to get to Amazon" document when I get a chance. Unless someone else has the time and knowledge? The room is large. It's big enough to hold around 50 people. If we know one of our meetings is going to be very large, we can probably reserve the middle room which I guess can hold as many as 100 people. I can even look into pulling down one of the separators and joining the rooms. I don't think the size of the meeting place is going to be a problem. My friend Bill and I walk from Weller street to PacMed in about 5 minutes. The International District and its abundant pre- and post-func locations are about equidistant. If we have a qualified cat herder we can walk from Pac Med to the ID in as little 15 minutes. We have access to the projectors. I will be responsible for checking it out and returning it unharmed. Can any of you longer-time Amazonians on the list clarify at all? Cheers, C.J. On Wed, Sep 22, 2004, Andrew Sweger wrote: C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi was for Safeco). So, what do folks think about this? Some information I already know folks will need include: access from freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? Discuss. (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable future.) From cjcollier at colliertech.org Thu Sep 23 13:24:25 2004 From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (CJ Collier) Date: Thu Sep 23 13:25:22 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1095963865.14410.57.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com> Truth be told, I think Amazon would be less likely to let us do this. They're not a big proponent of potentially putting their intranet on an internet-facing wireless network. However, I do suggest that everyone with a rooftop go buy one of Matt & Rob's Wireless kits. Seattle Wireless members get a discount on their hardware. http://metrix.net/metrix/products/packages Matt founded Seattle Wireless, and Rob wrote some great books on using wireless networks. He's also responsible for the existence of NoCat Splash and NoCat Auth, which are written in perl. These projects provide a captive portal to anyone attempting to use a wireless network equipped with the software. Things like greetings and / or credit card payment dialogs can be presented (and be required to be filled out) before the user can make use of the wireless network. For more information on these projects, see this wiki: http://nocat.net/moin/ Perhaps I should invite Rob to talk about Nocat at one of our meetings. Any interest in this? C.J. On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 10:47 -0700, Ken Meyer wrote: > If you don't have any access to the "outside" Internet at all that could be > shared with you being responsible party, it seems to me that, from that > promontory, it is very likely that you could create a completely independent > Inet connection via some outside 802.11 access point, especially if the > conference room has reasonable visibility north and/or east. You might need > to use a directional antenna of some sort external to the transceiver card. > Perhaps such a connection could be bridged to allow sharing by the user > group attendees via a local AP. > > In any event, at least the presenter could have access outside, which at > GSLUG, we have found to be an important capability desired by most > presenters in order to show related sites and/or to access information on > their own home machines. > > You might even be able to find some "legitimate" 802.11 connections. If > there is any potential feasibility in this WiFi approach, one thing that I > would do is to consult www.seattlewireless.net for potential nodes > maintained by "associates" of that organization that you might be able to > "see" from Jeff's Conceit. I know that some of the main proponents of SWN > have nodes on Cap Hill, but I'm not sure that they are visible from the > south. > > Another thing that I just learned at a recent GSLUG meeting at NSCC is that > an individual machine could acquire a DHCP IP address there without joining > the internal network -- just "not part of the school's domain" was the > explanation. So they were able to see outside without having access to the > school's internal network. Perhaps you could investigate that possibility, > even via some person who is not a new employee such as you apparently are. > > Ken Meyer > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]On > Behalf Of C.J. Collier > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:40 AM > To: spug-list@pm.org > > Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon > > Hey all, > > There is in fact free parking in the lot on the north side of the building. > We will have to walk between the main building and parking building to get > around to the front, but it's not a big deal. > > Internet access is limited to Amazon employees only. As a contractor, I > don't even have access to their intranet. This is going to be a sticky > point, and if it is violated, they will likely become upset. > > I will put together a "how to get to Amazon" document when I get a chance. > Unless someone else has the time and knowledge? > > The room is large. It's big enough to hold around 50 people. If we know one > of our meetings is going to be very large, we can probably reserve the > middle room which I guess can hold as many as 100 people. I can even look > into pulling down one of the separators and joining the rooms. I don't think > the size of the meeting place is going to be a problem. > > My friend Bill and I walk from Weller street to PacMed in about 5 minutes. > The International District and its abundant pre- and post-func locations are > about equidistant. If we have a qualified cat herder we can walk from Pac > Med to the ID in as little 15 minutes. > > We have access to the projectors. I will be responsible for checking it out > and returning it unharmed. > > Can any of you longer-time Amazonians on the list clarify at all? > > Cheers, > > C.J. > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004, Andrew Sweger wrote: > > C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, > has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our > monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near > the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years > we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to > meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and > will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi > was for Safeco). > > So, what do folks think about this? > > Some information I already know folks will need include: access from > freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet > access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting > activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll > work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in > town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? > > Discuss. > > (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October > meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable > future.) > > From tallpeak at hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 13:52:23 2004 From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron W. West) Date: Thu Sep 23 14:19:08 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? Message-ID: The best route I found by car: >From north: I5-S, take the Dearborn exit. At the end of the ramp, turn left to head west on Dearborn (under the bridge then down the hill). Take the first right after the bridge, onto 10th ave S. Go about three blocks to take the first non-dead-end right (King Street). Take a right onto 12th. Follow up the hill, across the bridge, and take a right at the light (onto Charles Street), then park on the street and walk to the entrance. As for taking the bus, unless you are on either the #60 or #36 routes, you'll need to transfer, so I usually found it a bit inconvenient to do and opted to drive. But use http://transit.metrokc.gov or http://tripplanner.metrokc.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rizvi, Ali" To: "Andrew Sweger" ; "Seattle Perl Users Group" Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: RE: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? I think it would be awesome to have the meeting at Amazon. I am an amazonian and ofcourse, I am biased by my laziness to travel far but as far as I know Laziness is one of the virtues of a perl hacker. :-) I am looking forward to attend the first meeting at PacMed soon. Thanks for all the effort on the organizers part to make it happen. Ali -----Original Message----- From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sweger Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:58 AM To: Seattle Perl Users Group Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi was for Safeco). So, what do folks think about this? Some information I already know folks will need include: access from freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? Discuss. (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable future.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From tallpeak at hotmail.com Thu Sep 23 15:05:07 2004 From: tallpeak at hotmail.com (Aaron W. West) Date: Thu Sep 23 15:07:06 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? References: Message-ID: I'm sorry, but the right is on 8th Ave S, not 10th. You can take 10th on the way back to the highway, but it's a one-way. (You'll see 10th straight across from the end of the ramp when you get off the exit, but can't go up it.) Other routes I've taken include Denny St, L Boren, R 12th (but a long slow drive on Boren in traffic) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron W. West" To: Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:52 AM Subject: Re: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? The best route I found by car: >From north: I5-S, take the Dearborn exit. At the end of the ramp, turn left to head west on Dearborn (under the bridge then down the hill). Take the first right after the bridge, onto 10th ave S. Go about three blocks to take the first non-dead-end right (King Street). Take a right onto 12th. Follow up the hill, across the bridge, and take a right at the light (onto Charles Street), then park on the street and walk to the entrance. As for taking the bus, unless you are on either the #60 or #36 routes, you'll need to transfer, so I usually found it a bit inconvenient to do and opted to drive. But use http://transit.metrokc.gov or http://tripplanner.metrokc.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rizvi, Ali" To: "Andrew Sweger" ; "Seattle Perl Users Group" Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: RE: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? I think it would be awesome to have the meeting at Amazon. I am an amazonian and ofcourse, I am biased by my laziness to travel far but as far as I know Laziness is one of the virtues of a perl hacker. :-) I am looking forward to attend the first meeting at PacMed soon. Thanks for all the effort on the organizers part to make it happen. Ali -----Original Message----- From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sweger Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:58 AM To: Seattle Perl Users Group Subject: SPUG: Meet at amazon.com Pac-Med office? C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi was for Safeco). So, what do folks think about this? Some information I already know folks will need include: access from freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? Discuss. (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable future.) -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From cjcollier at colliertech.org Thu Sep 23 15:19:35 2004 From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (CJ Collier) Date: Thu Sep 23 15:20:25 2004 Subject: SPUG: Problems with meeting at Amazon? Message-ID: <1095970775.13316.1.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com> Are there any problems with meeting at Amazon? I'd like to get this decision ratified ASAP, as there are a couple of presenters who said that they are only willing to present if it's at PacMed. Nay-sayers, unite! (but not too strongly, please, heh heh). C.J. From haircut at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 16:49:29 2004 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Thu Sep 23 16:51:25 2004 Subject: SPUG: gmail invites available Message-ID: <9ebd6511040923144911d67047@mail.gmail.com> Anyone want gmail? -- Adam Monsen http://adammonsen.com/ From haircut at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 17:28:03 2004 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Thu Sep 23 17:28:56 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: gmail invites available In-Reply-To: <9ebd6511040923144911d67047@mail.gmail.com> References: <9ebd6511040923144911d67047@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ebd65110409231528e715f79@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:49:29 -0700, Adam Monsen wrote: > Anyone want gmail? All the invites have now been distributed. Thanks for playing! Congratulations to the winners: Trevor Leffler Shari Rubin Jay Scherrer -- Adam Monsen http://adammonsen.com/ From cos at indeterminate.net Thu Sep 23 17:33:21 2004 From: cos at indeterminate.net (John Costello) Date: Thu Sep 23 17:33:41 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: gmail invites available In-Reply-To: <9ebd65110409231528e715f79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Adam Monsen wrote: > On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:49:29 -0700, Adam Monsen wrote: > > Anyone want gmail? > > All the invites have now been distributed. Thanks for playing! > Congratulations to the winners: I have 5 invites that I don't intend to use. If anyone missed out in round 1, let me know. > -- > Adam Monsen > http://adammonsen.com/ ----- John Costello - cos at indeterminate dot net "If you are afraid of butter, use cream."--Julia Child From daryn at marinated.org Thu Sep 23 17:35:43 2004 From: daryn at marinated.org (daryn@marinated.org) Date: Thu Sep 23 17:37:04 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: gmail invites available In-Reply-To: <9ebd65110409231528e715f79@mail.gmail.com> References: <9ebd6511040923144911d67047@mail.gmail.com> <9ebd65110409231528e715f79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: if anyone else wants one, let me know. On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Adam Monsen wrote: > On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:49:29 -0700, Adam Monsen wrote: >> Anyone want gmail? > > All the invites have now been distributed. Thanks for playing! > Congratulations to the winners: > > Trevor Leffler > Shari Rubin > Jay Scherrer > > -- > Adam Monsen > http://adammonsen.com/ > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From kmeyer at blarg.net Thu Sep 23 18:15:13 2004 From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer) Date: Thu Sep 23 18:13:51 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: <1095963865.14410.57.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com> Message-ID: Whoa there! The idea of using wireless would be to be completely independent of anything Amazonian -- not to expose Amazon's network to the wireless world as you seem to be suggesting. Simply, bring your laptop, or whatever box, plug it into the projector, fire up the 802.11 PC card, screw in the patch antenna, wave it around, and Presto! You are on the air with no obligation or connection to Amazon. Is that bad? The second tier implementation would be to have a bridging server or box receiving the outside waves and to provide an AP for n laptops in the room, including an output to the projector. IMHO, the primary founder and initial driver of Seattlewireless was Ken Caruso, who in fact rented the space down in Georgetown where the meetings were held when they had "general membership" meetings. In the recent past, I think that Ken has been working for a Portland company and is out of town a lot. Casey Halverson was another key player, but you won't learn any of that talking to the Big Matt Am. Flickenger arrived on the scene from CA much later. Ken M. -----Original Message----- From: CJ Collier [mailto:cjcollier@colliertech.org] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:24 AM To: kmeyer@blarg.net Cc: spug-list@pm.org Subject: RE: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon Truth be told, I think Amazon would be less likely to let us do this. They're not a big proponent of potentially putting their intranet on an internet-facing wireless network. However, I do suggest that everyone with a rooftop go buy one of Matt & Rob's Wireless kits. Seattle Wireless members get a discount on their hardware. http://metrix.net/metrix/products/packages Matt founded Seattle Wireless, and Rob wrote some great books on using wireless networks. He's also responsible for the existence of NoCat Splash and NoCat Auth, which are written in perl. These projects provide a captive portal to anyone attempting to use a wireless network equipped with the software. Things like greetings and / or credit card payment dialogs can be presented (and be required to be filled out) before the user can make use of the wireless network. For more information on these projects, see this wiki: http://nocat.net/moin/ Perhaps I should invite Rob to talk about Nocat at one of our meetings. Any interest in this? C.J. On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 10:47 -0700, Ken Meyer wrote: > If you don't have any access to the "outside" Internet at all that could be > shared with you being responsible party, it seems to me that, from that > promontory, it is very likely that you could create a completely independent > Inet connection via some outside 802.11 access point, especially if the > conference room has reasonable visibility north and/or east. You might need > to use a directional antenna of some sort external to the transceiver card. > Perhaps such a connection could be bridged to allow sharing by the user > group attendees via a local AP. > > In any event, at least the presenter could have access outside, which at > GSLUG, we have found to be an important capability desired by most > presenters in order to show related sites and/or to access information on > their own home machines. > > You might even be able to find some "legitimate" 802.11 connections. If > there is any potential feasibility in this WiFi approach, one thing that I > would do is to consult www.seattlewireless.net for potential nodes > maintained by "associates" of that organization that you might be able to > "see" from Jeff's Conceit. I know that some of the main proponents of SWN > have nodes on Cap Hill, but I'm not sure that they are visible from the > south. > > Another thing that I just learned at a recent GSLUG meeting at NSCC is that > an individual machine could acquire a DHCP IP address there without joining > the internal network -- just "not part of the school's domain" was the > explanation. So they were able to see outside without having access to the > school's internal network. Perhaps you could investigate that possibility, > even via some person who is not a new employee such as you apparently are. > > Ken Meyer > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:spug-list-bounces@mail.pm.org]On > Behalf Of C.J. Collier > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:40 AM > To: spug-list@pm.org > > Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon > > Hey all, > > There is in fact free parking in the lot on the north side of the building. > We will have to walk between the main building and parking building to get > around to the front, but it's not a big deal. > > Internet access is limited to Amazon employees only. As a contractor, I > don't even have access to their intranet. This is going to be a sticky > point, and if it is violated, they will likely become upset. > > I will put together a "how to get to Amazon" document when I get a chance. > Unless someone else has the time and knowledge? > > The room is large. It's big enough to hold around 50 people. If we know one > of our meetings is going to be very large, we can probably reserve the > middle room which I guess can hold as many as 100 people. I can even look > into pulling down one of the separators and joining the rooms. I don't think > the size of the meeting place is going to be a problem. > > My friend Bill and I walk from Weller street to PacMed in about 5 minutes. > The International District and its abundant pre- and post-func locations are > about equidistant. If we have a qualified cat herder we can walk from Pac > Med to the ID in as little 15 minutes. > > We have access to the projectors. I will be responsible for checking it out > and returning it unharmed. > > Can any of you longer-time Amazonians on the list clarify at all? > > Cheers, > > C.J. > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004, Andrew Sweger wrote: > > C.J. Collier, a longtime SPUG member and recent new hire at amazon.com, > has done all the footwork to provide SPUG the opportunity to hold our > monthly meetings in the A/V room at the amazon.com Pac-Med office (near > the I-5 & I-90 interchange). The arrangement would be similar to the years > we met at Safeco tower in the U-district (visitor sign-in, escort to > meeting room). C.J. is offering to sponsor our group in meeting there and > will be our representative (ambassador?) to the company (like Dora Choi > was for Safeco). > > So, what do folks think about this? > > Some information I already know folks will need include: access from > freeway, parking availability nearby, size of room, projector, Internet > access, nearby food/drink establishments for pre- and post-meeting > activity. C.J. will try to provide some of that when he has a chance. I'll > work on gathering some of this information next week when I'm back in > town. What else do folks need to know (as if the location wasn't enough)? > > Discuss. > > (We're tentatively lining things up to meet there for our 19 October > meeting. We are still welcome to meet at Geospiza for the foreseeable > future.) > > From andrew at sweger.net Fri Sep 24 01:01:52 2004 From: andrew at sweger.net (Andrew Sweger) Date: Fri Sep 24 01:01:59 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Ken Meyer wrote: > Whoa there! The idea of using wireless would be to be completely > independent of anything Amazonian -- not to expose Amazon's network to the > wireless world as you seem to be suggesting. Simply, bring your laptop, or > whatever box, plug it into the projector, fire up the 802.11 PC card, screw > in the patch antenna, wave it around, and Presto! You are on the air with > no obligation or connection to Amazon. Is that bad? To do so without the consent of Amazon officials would not be polite in my opinion. It may appear independent, but we would be on their turf. > IMHO, the primary founder and initial driver of Seattlewireless was Ken > Caruso, who in fact rented the space down in Georgetown where the meetings > were held when they had "general membership" meetings. In the recent past, > I think that Ken has been working for a Portland company and is out of town > a lot. Casey Halverson was another key player, but you won't learn any of > that talking to the Big Matt Am. Flickenger arrived on the scene from CA > much later. I didn't understand the point you were making, but Mr. Collier is well acquainted with the SWN folks and a recognized contributor to the group. -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From kmeyer at blarg.net Fri Sep 24 12:07:49 2004 From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer) Date: Fri Sep 24 12:06:25 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that this response is best provided "in-line." Please see the [#...#] comment delimiters. Ken Meyer -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Sweger [mailto:andrew@sweger.net] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:02 PM To: Ken Meyer Cc: CJ Collier; spug-list@pm.org Subject: RE: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Ken Meyer wrote: > Whoa there! The idea of using wireless would be to be completely > independent of anything Amazonian -- not to expose Amazon's network to the > wireless world as you seem to be suggesting. Simply, bring your laptop, or > whatever box, plug it into the projector, fire up the 802.11 PC card, screw > in the patch antenna, wave it around, and Presto! You are on the air with > no obligation or connection to Amazon. Is that bad? To do so without the consent of Amazon officials would not be polite in my opinion. It may appear independent, but we would be on their turf. [# My suggestion in my previous posting, and as shown excerpted below, indicates that I did in fact suggest inquiry with management about the use of WiFi, and that it might be prudent to have a direct employee of some seniority do it (to minimize the potential for just being "blown-off"). Here it is: [# "...so they were able to see outside without having access to the school's internal network. Perhaps you could investigate that possibility, even via some person who is not a new employee such as you apparently are." [# I know that the length of my messages may invite a cursory read, but before you take specific exception to their content, you would be well-advised to review them thoroughly. [# Now, in addition, my "Whoa there..." comment was actually directed at CJ; as a result of his observation: [# "Truth be told, I think Amazon would be less likely to let us do this. They're not a big proponent of potentially putting their intranet on an internet-facing wireless network." [# I interpret this comment as suggesting a connection between SPUG's use of WiFi and Amazon's intranet, i.e. that we would attach an AP to the Amazon internal network. If I misinterpreted this statement, then the point is "inoperative" in a "no-fault mode". David responded to me off-line, apparently feeling that the remarks were directed at him and perceiving the context incorrectly. OK, stuff happens. [# Now, this grumpiness is unfortunate, given that I have simply been trying to brainstorm a solution that would improve the quality of meetings potentially held at Amazon. In point of fact, I'm surprised that a computer is apparently not permanently installed in every conference room there, and which could be used under the proper conditions and restrictions. [# I suggest that David and CJ spend their discretionary time inquiring discretely about the possibilities, and if at all possible, do so without generating an edict that would be difficult to overturn. If problems are encountered, I would be happy to try to engage Jeff himself, unabashedly playing the "Hi, from a fellow Princeton alumnus" card, which is in fact the case. "] > IMHO, the primary founder and initial driver of Seattlewireless was Ken > Caruso, who in fact rented the space down in Georgetown where the meetings > were held when they had "general membership" meetings. In the recent past, > I think that Ken has been working for a Portland company and is out of town > a lot. Casey Halverson was another key player, but you won't learn any of > that talking to the Big Matt Am. Flickenger arrived on the scene from CA > much later. I didn't understand the point you were making, but Mr. Collier is well acquainted with the SWN folks and a recognized contributor to the group. [# So was I, quite a bit before "Mr. Collier" arrived on the scene, I suspect; because his statement was not quite accurate. He gave "Mr. Westervelt" sole credit for the formation of SWN -- not a big surprise, given "Mr. Westervelt's" view of the world, but incorrect nevertheless. [# This was not intended to be "a biggie" -- just another first-hand observation from the trenches, attempting to distribute the credit among other very, and perhaps more, worthy souls. In any event, the comment was not intended as a rap on "Mr. Collier". [# By the way, Matt Westervelt also bears a primary responsibility for: (1) the demise of a project that gave SWN its best shot at creating the MAN that they profess (ed?) to have as their objective, and (2) the deconstruction of SWN's public presence from hosting general membership meetings to a reduction to mere "hack nights" at which only wireless guru/geeks are welcome. Just FYI. #] -- Andrew B. Sweger -- The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once. From cjcollier at colliertech.org Fri Sep 24 15:28:06 2004 From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (CJ Collier) Date: Fri Sep 24 15:29:17 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096057686.13307.82.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com> Heya Ken, > [# My suggestion in my previous posting, and as shown excerpted below, > indicates that I did in fact suggest inquiry with management about the use > of WiFi, and that it might be prudent to have a direct employee of some > seniority do it (to minimize the potential for just being "blown-off"). > Here it is: Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll be an okay contact for this. I've contacted one of our security engineers here, and I'll keep you posted on the results of my enquiry. Doubtful we'll be "blown-off" as this move is pretty high profile. > [# "...so they were able to see outside without having access to the > school's internal network. Perhaps you could investigate that possibility, > even via some person who is not a new employee such as you apparently are." The short and sweet is that Amazon does not provide this network functionality, and will not start providing it just because a group that happens to meet here would benefit. I will concede that it's not just an idea that we don't have time to implement correctly; It's an interesting idea that we don't have time to implement correctly. > [# I know that the length of my messages may invite a cursory read, but > before you take specific exception to their content, you would be > well-advised to review them thoroughly. Rest assured I did. I did not reply to the items which would take too much time to explain why they could not be addressed, nor the points that were off-topic. And I will continue that trend. > [# Now, in addition, my "Whoa there..." comment was actually directed at CJ; > as a result of his observation: > [# I interpret this comment as suggesting a connection between SPUG's use of > WiFi and Amazon's intranet, i.e. that we would attach an AP to the Amazon > internal network. If I misinterpreted this statement, then the point is > "inoperative" in a "no-fault mode". David responded to me off-line, > apparently feeling that the remarks were directed at him and perceiving the > context incorrectly. OK, stuff happens. Whether you intend it to be or not, a wireless connection beamed in Amazon's window coupled with a connection to Amazon's network is a security concern. I would prefer to minimize these, and thus recommend not going down this path. Note also that there are no active Seattle Wireless nodes on the south side of Capitol hill. There is no line of site from our meeting room to anyone with an antenna capable of making the link. Before this is even feasible, we would need to provide a link on the south side of Cap Hill. > [# Now, this grumpiness is unfortunate, given that I have simply been trying > to brainstorm a solution that would improve the quality of meetings > potentially held at Amazon. In point of fact, I'm surprised that a computer > is apparently not permanently installed in every conference room there, and > which could be used under the proper conditions and restrictions. Thank you for your brainstorming; it is greatly appreciated. After submitting an idea, please listen to comments by folks who would be able to implement such ideas. > [# I suggest that David and CJ spend their discretionary time inquiring > discretely about the possibilities, and if at all possible, do so without > generating an edict that would be difficult to overturn. If problems are > encountered, I would be happy to try to engage Jeff himself, unabashedly > playing the "Hi, from a fellow Princeton alumnus" card, which is in fact the > case. > "] I have been inquiring about these subjects. Discretely. I have not been posting these discussions to the list. I will keep you updated as I hear back from security. C.J. From kmeyer at blarg.net Fri Sep 24 18:37:45 2004 From: kmeyer at blarg.net (Ken Meyer) Date: Fri Sep 24 18:36:20 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: <1096057686.13307.82.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com> Message-ID: CJ -- Thanks for the thoughtful reply. A couple of points: 1) First, David answered a message that I addressed to you as if it had been personally addressed to him. Now you are, in at least part of this mail, answering a message I addressed to Andy as if I had addressed you. There's not a thing bad or impolite about anyone on this list contributing his or her opinion to any discussion, and your comments in this case specifically are very valuable. However, in cases where someone may be pointing out some sort of alleged misstatement made in another post, please don't take it personally unless you are on the "To-list" -- everyone. 2) I think there's still some disconnect about my suggestion for the use of WiFi. The whole idea was to have NO need whatsoever for a connection to ANY Amazon wire or wireless network. The intent is to remain ENTIRELY INDEPENDENT of Amazon's resources while still providing a connection to the public Internet for the benefit of accessing presentations, downloading Perl files, whatever. Andy says that, even so, it might be frowned on by Amazon; though I really can't see why, I think that's fine and I had already suggested that someone should do the inquiry that you apparently have been doing. Of course this is all moot if the conference room is electromagnetically shielded, on purpose or for practical purposes, or if there is no active node that springs up, even with 12 dB of antenna gain, etc. I would scan the entire horizon for AP's before giving up; an SWN node on South Cap Hill might well not be the only available resource. Keep up the good work. Ken Meyer -----Original Message----- From: CJ Collier [mailto:cjcollier@colliertech.org] Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:28 PM To: kmeyer@blarg.net Cc: Andrew Sweger; carswell@gmail.com; spug-list@pm.org Subject: RE: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon Heya Ken, > [# My suggestion in my previous posting, and as shown excerpted below, > indicates that I did in fact suggest inquiry with management about the use > of WiFi, and that it might be prudent to have a direct employee of some > seniority do it (to minimize the potential for just being "blown-off"). > Here it is: Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll be an okay contact for this. I've contacted one of our security engineers here, and I'll keep you posted on the results of my enquiry. Doubtful we'll be "blown-off" as this move is pretty high profile. > [# "...so they were able to see outside without having access to the > school's internal network. Perhaps you could investigate that possibility, > even via some person who is not a new employee such as you apparently are." The short and sweet is that Amazon does not provide this network functionality, and will not start providing it just because a group that happens to meet here would benefit. I will concede that it's not just an idea that we don't have time to implement correctly; It's an interesting idea that we don't have time to implement correctly. > [# I know that the length of my messages may invite a cursory read, but > before you take specific exception to their content, you would be > well-advised to review them thoroughly. Rest assured I did. I did not reply to the items which would take too much time to explain why they could not be addressed, nor the points that were off-topic. And I will continue that trend. > [# Now, in addition, my "Whoa there..." comment was actually directed at CJ; > as a result of his observation: > [# I interpret this comment as suggesting a connection between SPUG's use of > WiFi and Amazon's intranet, i.e. that we would attach an AP to the Amazon > internal network. If I misinterpreted this statement, then the point is > "inoperative" in a "no-fault mode". David responded to me off-line, > apparently feeling that the remarks were directed at him and perceiving the > context incorrectly. OK, stuff happens. Whether you intend it to be or not, a wireless connection beamed in Amazon's window coupled with a connection to Amazon's network is a security concern. I would prefer to minimize these, and thus recommend not going down this path. Note also that there are no active Seattle Wireless nodes on the south side of Capitol hill. There is no line of site from our meeting room to anyone with an antenna capable of making the link. Before this is even feasible, we would need to provide a link on the south side of Cap Hill. > [# Now, this grumpiness is unfortunate, given that I have simply been trying > to brainstorm a solution that would improve the quality of meetings > potentially held at Amazon. In point of fact, I'm surprised that a computer > is apparently not permanently installed in every conference room there, and > which could be used under the proper conditions and restrictions. Thank you for your brainstorming; it is greatly appreciated. After submitting an idea, please listen to comments by folks who would be able to implement such ideas. > [# I suggest that David and CJ spend their discretionary time inquiring > discretely about the possibilities, and if at all possible, do so without > generating an edict that would be difficult to overturn. If problems are > encountered, I would be happy to try to engage Jeff himself, unabashedly > playing the "Hi, from a fellow Princeton alumnus" card, which is in fact the > case. > "] I have been inquiring about these subjects. Discretely. I have not been posting these discussions to the list. I will keep you updated as I hear back from security. C.J. From lmzaldivar at mac.com Mon Sep 27 15:31:04 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Mon Sep 27 15:31:07 2004 Subject: SPUG: Mod Perl install and configuration instruction Message-ID: <1268151.1096317064642.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, Any of you can you please point me to the instructions or how to setup Mod_Perl in Fedora Core 2 with apache 2.x. THanks, Luis From lmzaldivar at mac.com Tue Sep 28 14:34:23 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Tue Sep 28 14:34:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: installing and configure Mason (Help!!!) Message-ID: <12623317.1096400063384.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, I install Mason using perl -MCPAN -e shell in a fedora core 2 box. I follow the instructions of: http://www.masonhq.com/docs/manual/Mason.html#installation adding this lines one httpd.conf: PerlModule HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler SetHandler perl-script PerlHandler HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler and I reboot apache and I got this error: httpd -k start [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't locate Apache/Constants.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 13.!BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 13.!Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.! [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't load Perl module HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler for server domain.com:0, exiting...! From lmzaldivar at mac.com Tue Sep 28 15:08:30 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Tue Sep 28 15:08:43 2004 Subject: SPUG: installing and configure Mason (Help!!!) In-Reply-To: <2463.208.20.213.2.1096401112.squirrel@mail.snapmedical.com> References: <12623317.1096400063384.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <2463.208.20.213.2.1096401112.squirrel@mail.snapmedical.com> Message-ID: <3468924.1096402110928.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, I did this: perl -MCPAN -e'install Apache::Constants' but now showing this: Enter `q' to stop search Please tell me where I can find your apache src [../apache_x.x/src] how can I find apache path? Thanks, Luis On Tuesday, September 28, 2004, at 12:52PM, Tom Heady wrote: >It seems you are missing the Apache::Constants module: > >perl -MCPAN -e'install Apache::Constants' > > >Tom > >> List, >> >> I install Mason using perl -MCPAN -e shell in a fedora core 2 box. I >> follow the instructions of: >> http://www.masonhq.com/docs/manual/Mason.html#installation >> >> adding this lines one httpd.conf: >> PerlModule HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler >> >> >> SetHandler perl-script >> PerlHandler HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler >> >> >> and I reboot apache and I got this error: >> >> httpd -k start >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't locate Apache/Constants.pm in >> @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi >> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0 >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 13.!BEGIN >> failed--compilation aborted at >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line >> 13.!Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.! >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't load Perl module >> HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler for server domain.com:0, exiting...! >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >> POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org >> ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown >> WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org >> > > > From haircut at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 15:54:00 2004 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Tue Sep 28 15:54:05 2004 Subject: SPUG: installing and configure Mason (Help!!!) In-Reply-To: <3468924.1096402110928.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <12623317.1096400063384.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <2463.208.20.213.2.1096401112.squirrel@mail.snapmedical.com> <3468924.1096402110928.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <9ebd65110409281354183dd0a9@mail.gmail.com> Luis, CPAN is asking you where the Apache httpd source code is. You may not have the source code. Fedora core doesn't include the source for Apache by default. That, and it's probably patched to the hilt by the RPM packagers. I recommend building and installing Apache 1.3, mod_perl 1.x, *THEN* install the latest version of HTML::Mason via CPAN. It is fairly straightforward. Start here: http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/install.html#A_Summary_of_a_Basic_mod_perl_Installation As for Apache 2 / mod_perl 2... I've never configured Mason with Apache 2/mod_perl 2, and I don't think Mason was really designed to run with Apache 2/mod_perl 2. Some of the Amazon.com guys on this list might know for sure... I've not spent much time with Mason. However, I did find these two (hopefully) helpful links: http://www.masonhq.com/?ApacheModPerl2 http://www.masonhq.com/?MasonAndFedora Hope this helps, -Adam On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:08:30 -0700, Luis Medrano wrote: > List, > > I did this: > perl -MCPAN -e'install Apache::Constants' > but now showing this: > > Enter `q' to stop search > Please tell me where I can find your apache src > [../apache_x.x/src] > > how can I find apache path? > > Thanks, > Luis > > On Tuesday, September 28, 2004, at 12:52PM, Tom Heady wrote: > > >It seems you are missing the Apache::Constants module: > > > >perl -MCPAN -e'install Apache::Constants' > > > > > >Tom > > > > > >> List, > >> > >> I install Mason using perl -MCPAN -e shell in a fedora core 2 box. I > >> follow the instructions of: > >> http://www.masonhq.com/docs/manual/Mason.html#installation > >> > >> adding this lines one httpd.conf: > >> PerlModule HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler > >> > >> > >> SetHandler perl-script > >> PerlHandler HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler > >> > >> > >> and I reboot apache and I got this error: > >> > >> httpd -k start > >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't locate Apache/Constants.pm in > >> @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi > >> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0 > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl > >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi > >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 13.!BEGIN > >> failed--compilation aborted at > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line > >> 13.!Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.! > >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't load Perl module > >> HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler for server domain.com:0, exiting...! > >> > >> _____________________________________________________________ > >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > >> POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > >> ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > >> WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > >> > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > -- Adam Monsen http://adammonsen.com/ From ingy at ttul.org Tue Sep 28 17:06:29 2004 From: ingy at ttul.org (Brian Ingerson) Date: Tue Sep 28 17:04:13 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon In-Reply-To: References: <1096057686.13307.82.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com> Message-ID: <20040928220629.GA6022@ttul.org> Ken's proposal seems no different than using a personal cell phone inside the Amazon building. In fact we could even get internet through a cell phone if someone has that technology and is willing to oblige. Cheers, Brian On 24/09/04 16:37 -0700, Ken Meyer wrote: > CJ -- > > Thanks for the thoughtful reply. A couple of points: > > 1) First, David answered a message that I addressed to you as if it had been > personally addressed to him. Now you are, in at least part of this mail, > answering a message I addressed to Andy as if I had addressed you. There's > not a thing bad or impolite about anyone on this list contributing his or > her opinion to any discussion, and your comments in this case specifically > are very valuable. However, in cases where someone may be pointing out some > sort of alleged misstatement made in another post, please don't take it > personally unless you are on the "To-list" -- everyone. > > 2) I think there's still some disconnect about my suggestion for the use of > WiFi. The whole idea was to have NO need whatsoever for a connection to ANY > Amazon wire or wireless network. The intent is to remain ENTIRELY > INDEPENDENT of Amazon's resources while still providing a connection to the > public Internet for the benefit of accessing presentations, downloading Perl > files, whatever. > > Andy says that, even so, it might be frowned on by Amazon; though I really > can't see why, I think that's fine and I had already suggested that someone > should do the inquiry that you apparently have been doing. > > Of course this is all moot if the conference room is electromagnetically > shielded, on purpose or for practical purposes, or if there is no active > node that springs up, even with 12 dB of antenna gain, etc. I would scan > the entire horizon for AP's before giving up; an SWN node on South Cap Hill > might well not be the only available resource. > > Keep up the good work. > > Ken Meyer > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: CJ Collier [mailto:cjcollier@colliertech.org] > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:28 PM > To: kmeyer@blarg.net > Cc: Andrew Sweger; carswell@gmail.com; spug-list@pm.org > > Subject: RE: SPUG: Meetings at Amazon > > Heya Ken, > > > [# My suggestion in my previous posting, and as shown excerpted below, > > indicates that I did in fact suggest inquiry with management about the use > > of WiFi, and that it might be prudent to have a direct employee of some > > seniority do it (to minimize the potential for just being "blown-off"). > > Here it is: > > Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll be an okay contact for this. > I've contacted one of our security engineers here, and I'll keep you > posted on the results of my enquiry. Doubtful we'll be "blown-off" as > this move is pretty high profile. > > > [# "...so they were able to see outside without having access to the > > school's internal network. Perhaps you could investigate that > possibility, > > even via some person who is not a new employee such as you apparently > are." > > The short and sweet is that Amazon does not provide this network > functionality, and will not start providing it just because a group that > happens to meet here would benefit. > > I will concede that it's not just an idea that we don't have time to > implement correctly; It's an interesting idea that we don't have time > to implement correctly. > > > [# I know that the length of my messages may invite a cursory read, but > > before you take specific exception to their content, you would be > > well-advised to review them thoroughly. > > Rest assured I did. I did not reply to the items which would take too > much time to explain why they could not be addressed, nor the points > that were off-topic. And I will continue that trend. > > > [# Now, in addition, my "Whoa there..." comment was actually directed at > CJ; > > as a result of his observation: > > > [# I interpret this comment as suggesting a connection between SPUG's use > of > > WiFi and Amazon's intranet, i.e. that we would attach an AP to the Amazon > > internal network. If I misinterpreted this statement, then the point is > > "inoperative" in a "no-fault mode". David responded to me off-line, > > apparently feeling that the remarks were directed at him and perceiving > the > > context incorrectly. OK, stuff happens. > > Whether you intend it to be or not, a wireless connection beamed in > Amazon's window coupled with a connection to Amazon's network is a > security concern. I would prefer to minimize these, and thus recommend > not going down this path. > > Note also that there are no active Seattle Wireless nodes on the south > side of Capitol hill. There is no line of site from our meeting room to > anyone with an antenna capable of making the link. Before this is even > feasible, we would need to provide a link on the south side of Cap Hill. > > > [# Now, this grumpiness is unfortunate, given that I have simply been > trying > > to brainstorm a solution that would improve the quality of meetings > > potentially held at Amazon. In point of fact, I'm surprised that a > computer > > is apparently not permanently installed in every conference room there, > and > > which could be used under the proper conditions and restrictions. > > Thank you for your brainstorming; it is greatly appreciated. After > submitting an idea, please listen to comments by folks who would be able > to implement such ideas. > > > [# I suggest that David and CJ spend their discretionary time inquiring > > discretely about the possibilities, and if at all possible, do so without > > generating an edict that would be difficult to overturn. If problems are > > encountered, I would be happy to try to engage Jeff himself, unabashedly > > playing the "Hi, from a fellow Princeton alumnus" card, which is in fact > the > > case. > > "] > > I have been inquiring about these subjects. Discretely. I have not > been posting these discussions to the list. I will keep you updated as > I hear back from security. > > C.J. > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From cjcollier at colliertech.org Tue Sep 28 17:18:05 2004 From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (CJ Collier) Date: Tue Sep 28 17:22:22 2004 Subject: SPUG: installing and configure Mason (Help!!!) In-Reply-To: <9ebd65110409281354183dd0a9@mail.gmail.com> References: <12623317.1096400063384.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <2463.208.20.213.2.1096401112.squirrel@mail.snapmedical.com> <3468924.1096402110928.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <9ebd65110409281354183dd0a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1096409885.29180.58.camel@cjcoll.desktop.amazon.com> I recommend getting the RPMs of mod_perl and apache 1.3 rather than building from source. 1) it's more difficult to build from source, 2) Redhat probably patched it to the hilt, and their patched versions likely work better with their operating environment. Cheers, C.J. On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 13:54 -0700, Adam Monsen wrote: > Luis, > > CPAN is asking you where the Apache httpd source code is. You may not > have the source code. Fedora core doesn't include the source for > Apache by default. That, and it's probably patched to the hilt by the > RPM packagers. > > I recommend building and installing Apache 1.3, mod_perl 1.x, *THEN* > install the latest version of HTML::Mason via CPAN. It is fairly > straightforward. Start here: > > http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/install.html#A_Summary_of_a_Basic_mod_perl_Installation > > As for Apache 2 / mod_perl 2... > > I've never configured Mason with Apache 2/mod_perl 2, and I don't > think Mason was really designed to run with Apache 2/mod_perl 2. Some > of the Amazon.com guys on this list might know for sure... I've not > spent much time with Mason. > > However, I did find these two (hopefully) helpful links: > http://www.masonhq.com/?ApacheModPerl2 > http://www.masonhq.com/?MasonAndFedora > > Hope this helps, > -Adam > > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:08:30 -0700, Luis Medrano wrote: > > List, > > > > I did this: > > perl -MCPAN -e'install Apache::Constants' > > but now showing this: > > > > Enter `q' to stop search > > Please tell me where I can find your apache src > > [../apache_x.x/src] > > > > how can I find apache path? > > > > Thanks, > > Luis > > > > On Tuesday, September 28, 2004, at 12:52PM, Tom Heady wrote: > > > > >It seems you are missing the Apache::Constants module: > > > > > >perl -MCPAN -e'install Apache::Constants' > > > > > > > > >Tom > > > > > > > > > >> List, > > >> > > >> I install Mason using perl -MCPAN -e shell in a fedora core 2 box. I > > >> follow the instructions of: > > >> http://www.masonhq.com/docs/manual/Mason.html#installation > > >> > > >> adding this lines one httpd.conf: > > >> PerlModule HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler > > >> > > >> > > >> SetHandler perl-script > > >> PerlHandler HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler > > >> > > >> > > >> and I reboot apache and I got this error: > > >> > > >> httpd -k start > > >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't locate Apache/Constants.pm in > > >> @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi > > >> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0 > > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi > > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl > > >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi > > >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at > > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 13.!BEGIN > > >> failed--compilation aborted at > > >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line > > >> 13.!Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.! > > >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't load Perl module > > >> HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler for server domain.com:0, exiting...! > > >> > > >> _____________________________________________________________ > > >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > > >> POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > > >> ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > > >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > > >> WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > > > > > From lmzaldivar at mac.com Tue Sep 28 17:29:00 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Tue Sep 28 17:29:12 2004 Subject: SPUG: installing and configure Mason (Help!!!) In-Reply-To: <2463.208.20.213.2.1096401112.squirrel@mail.snapmedical.com> References: <12623317.1096400063384.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> <2463.208.20.213.2.1096401112.squirrel@mail.snapmedical.com> Message-ID: <12557588.1096410540133.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, I install Apache::Constants. But now when I boot apache it showing the following: httpd -k start [Tue Sep 28 15:23:16 2004] [error] Global $r object is not available. Set:\n\tPerlOptions +GlobalRequest\nin httpd.conf at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 579.\nCompilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 1.\n I really apprecciate any help. THanks, Luis On Tuesday, September 28, 2004, at 12:52PM, Tom Heady wrote: >It seems you are missing the Apache::Constants module: > >perl -MCPAN -e'install Apache::Constants' > > >Tom > >> List, >> >> I install Mason using perl -MCPAN -e shell in a fedora core 2 box. I >> follow the instructions of: >> http://www.masonhq.com/docs/manual/Mason.html#installation >> >> adding this lines one httpd.conf: >> PerlModule HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler >> >> >> SetHandler perl-script >> PerlHandler HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler >> >> >> and I reboot apache and I got this error: >> >> httpd -k start >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't locate Apache/Constants.pm in >> @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi >> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0 >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi >> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line 13.!BEGIN >> failed--compilation aborted at >> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/HTML/Mason/ApacheHandler.pm line >> 13.!Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.! >> [Tue Sep 28 14:03:44 2004] [error] Can't load Perl module >> HTML::Mason::ApacheHandler for server domain.com:0, exiting...! >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List >> POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org >> ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list >> MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown >> WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org >> > > > From lmzaldivar at mac.com Wed Sep 29 15:14:04 2004 From: lmzaldivar at mac.com (Luis Medrano) Date: Wed Sep 29 15:14:06 2004 Subject: SPUG: Upgrading Mod_Perl Message-ID: <5196294.1096488844476.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> List, Any of you can please let me know how is the easy way to upgrade Mod_Perl? Thanks, Luis From tom_g_coleman at hotmail.com Wed Sep 29 16:01:51 2004 From: tom_g_coleman at hotmail.com (tom Coleman) Date: Wed Sep 29 16:02:07 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Tk book advice request Message-ID: List, I've recently written tetris as part of the perl QOTW, it was in ascii. My clients did not appreciate the %%, ** and ## "colored" shapes, they complained of headaches. wimps, they should be happy it's not on teletype. So I wrestled with the Perl Tk module, and have something working. However there is a lot of punting going on. ( try this, try that, tweak this, hey it works! stop tweaking ) I'd like to understand what I have working. The O'Reilly book on Perl/Tk is falling short of what I want. Can you suggest a book / tutorial to learn Perl/Tk? Perhaps I need to focus on Tk alone first. thank you, tom _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From brianwisti at yahoo.com Wed Sep 29 16:13:55 2004 From: brianwisti at yahoo.com (Brian Wisti) Date: Wed Sep 29 16:13:57 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Tk book advice request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040929211355.29435.qmail@web53603.mail.yahoo.com> Mastering Perl/Tk is good. There is also a chapter in Advanced Perl Programming that covers this exact subject (assuming the subject is "tetris with perl/tk" -- Brian Wisti http://coolnamehere.com/ --- tom Coleman wrote: > List, > > I've recently written tetris as part of the perl QOTW, it was in > ascii. My > clients did not appreciate the %%, ** and ## "colored" shapes, they > complained of headaches. wimps, they should be happy it's not on > teletype. > > So I wrestled with the Perl Tk module, and have something working. > However > there is a lot of punting going on. ( try this, try that, tweak > this, hey > it works! stop tweaking ) I'd like to understand what I have > working. > > The O'Reilly book on Perl/Tk is falling short of what I want. > > Can you suggest a book / tutorial to learn Perl/Tk? Perhaps I need > to focus > on Tk alone first. > > thank you, > tom > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From jay at scherrer.com Wed Sep 29 18:10:18 2004 From: jay at scherrer.com (Jay Scherrer) Date: Wed Sep 29 18:10:23 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Tk book advice request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200409291610.18371.jay@scherrer.com> Tom, I had found the site (was scriptics) very useful. They actually had a Perl::Tk wysywig templater. Another site emerging is . Another interesting fact is that Active state is backing Tcl/Tk quite a bit. Jay On Wednesday 29 September 2004 02:01 pm, tom Coleman wrote: > List, > > I've recently written tetris as part of the perl QOTW, it was in > ascii. My clients did not appreciate the %%, ** and ## "colored" > shapes, they complained of headaches. wimps, they should be happy > it's not on teletype. > > So I wrestled with the Perl Tk module, and have something working. > However there is a lot of punting going on. ( try this, try that, > tweak this, hey it works! stop tweaking ) I'd like to understand > what I have working. > > The O'Reilly book on Perl/Tk is falling short of what I want. > > Can you suggest a book / tutorial to learn Perl/Tk? Perhaps I need > to focus on Tk alone first. > > thank you, > tom > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Sep 29 20:44:23 2004 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher) Date: Wed Sep 29 20:44:37 2004 Subject: SPUG: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 is released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040930014423.GA6102@jumpy.consultix-inc.com> FWIW, here are my early impressions of the new version of SpamAssassin, v 3.0. 1) It's doing a SPECTACULAR job of snaring lots of crap that used to leak through SpamAssassin 2.*, with absolutely no additional configuration on my part. In this respect, it's been a huge win for me over its predecessor, which let approx. 100 messages through every day (after catching thousands). 2) Suddenly, my formerly adequate Pentium III @ 966 Mhz feels like a Pentium II at 150 Mhz. Although I've always used the daemonic approach (via spamd) to process incoming mail without the inefficiency of continually restarting a big process, there's barely a moment during any day when spamd 3.0 isn't bogging down the CPU. I feel like I've gone back in time by 15 years, which was the last time I had to routinely wait 3 seconds after hitting CR to get the next shell prompt -- and I'm running spamd with the full 19-point nice-ness penalty to boot! I recognize that I may have goofed up somehow in the installation, or ruined its performance in some other manner on my own, but that interpretation of my results seems very unlikely to me, given that all I did was run CPAN to install, stop the old spamd, and start the new one. (after giving up on running c_learn, due to a problem with Net::DNS). So if my experience is any indication, I'd recommend that people having sub super-computer machines think twice or thrice about upgrading to v3.0, because, if my experience is typical, it can be a huge drag on system performance. Tim P.S. Some nerdly statistics: CPU usage averages about 5%, RSS about 27meg, memory about 9%, and swapping zero. *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Tim Maher, CEO (206) 781-UNIX (866) DOC-PERL (866) DOC-UNIX | | tim(AT)Consultix-Inc.Com http://TeachMePerl.Com http://TeachMeUnix.Com | *+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-* | Watch for my upcoming book: "Minimal Perl for Shell Users & Programmers" | | Classes: UNIX Fundamentals for "Power Users", October 4-7, Seattle WA | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* From cjcollier at colliertech.org Wed Sep 29 23:44:23 2004 From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (C.J. Collier) Date: Wed Sep 29 23:52:21 2004 Subject: SPUG: Upgrading Mod_Perl In-Reply-To: <5196294.1096488844476.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <5196294.1096488844476.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <1096519463.12190.4.camel@debian> >From which version to which version? On which operating system? C.J. On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 13:14 -0700, Luis Medrano wrote: > List, > > Any of you can please let me know how is the easy way to upgrade Mod_Perl? > > Thanks, > Luis > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From cjcollier at colliertech.org Wed Sep 29 23:49:50 2004 From: cjcollier at colliertech.org (C.J. Collier) Date: Wed Sep 29 23:57:50 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Tk book advice request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096519790.12190.10.camel@debian> I am personally quite partial to GTK+. From what I hear, there are some good perl wrappers. /me does a bit of research... http://personal.riverusers.com/~swilhelm/gtkperl-tutorial/ and you might also want... http://sdl.perl.org/ If you want to see what's possible with SDL & Perl check out Frozen Bubble: http://frozen-bubble.org/ Whee! Graphics with Perl! C.J. On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 14:01 -0700, tom Coleman wrote: > List, > > I've recently written tetris as part of the perl QOTW, it was in ascii. My > clients did not appreciate the %%, ** and ## "colored" shapes, they > complained of headaches. wimps, they should be happy it's not on teletype. > > So I wrestled with the Perl Tk module, and have something working. However > there is a lot of punting going on. ( try this, try that, tweak this, hey > it works! stop tweaking ) I'd like to understand what I have working. > > The O'Reilly book on Perl/Tk is falling short of what I want. > > Can you suggest a book / tutorial to learn Perl/Tk? Perhaps I need to focus > on Tk alone first. > > thank you, > tom > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _____________________________________________________________ > Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List > POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org > ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list > MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown > WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org > From joel at largest.org Thu Sep 30 00:36:04 2004 From: joel at largest.org (Joel Grow) Date: Thu Sep 30 00:36:06 2004 Subject: SPUG: interesting while() behavior and hosting recs In-Reply-To: <5196294.1096488844476.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> References: <5196294.1096488844476.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: Hey Perl gurus, I recently noticed this very strange (to me at least) while() behavior: my $count = 1; while() { # this evaluates to true(!) print "hello world\n"; last if (++$count > 3); } Prints "hello world" 3 times. How is () evaluated to true?!? If I put "0", "undef", "", or a scalar set to any of those in the parens, it does what I expect--it skips the while loop. I thought "Hmm, maybe this is a strange empty list issue?", but no, the code below still skips the while loop: my $count = 1; my @empty = (); while(@empty) { # skips this while loop, as I'd expect print "hello world\n"; last if (++$count > 3); } In desperation, I thought maybe while() was evaluating $_ by default, since you can of course do: while () { but printing out $_ just before the while() loop showed it is undefined. What's going on? Also, does anyone have a web hosting company recommendation? I'm doing some tech work with a nonprofit and they're currently using XO. They have a Unix account with Perl access, but the only shell access is through this thing called VDE (virtual domain environment), basically a sandbox for CGI scripts. My main complaint is I'd have to telnet to the VDE. And to get mysql access they'd have to spend $50/month. I use pair.com for a personal site (and am generally happy with it), and have some experience with johncompanies.com. johncompanies.com is cool, but for this I'd like someone else to take care of making sure the web and mail servers are running and doing software updates. So a relatively simple unix account with Perl and rdbms (mysql or postgres preferably). Thanks! Joel From charles.e.derykus at boeing.com Thu Sep 30 05:27:25 2004 From: charles.e.derykus at boeing.com (DeRykus, Charles E) Date: Thu Sep 30 05:27:34 2004 Subject: SPUG: interesting while() behavior and hosting recs Message-ID: <5DF8FDE8DFE8744388602480FDCC0E310346FE86@xch-nw-23.nw.nos.boeing.com> An array (AV) can meaningfully be evaluated in scalar context so I'd expect @empty to fail. However, () is a list in scalar context which doesn't behave in a predictable manner. perl -MO=Deparse -e 'my $count = 1;^Jmy @empty=(); while(@empty) { > my $count = 1; my(@empty) = (); while (@empty) { print "hello world\n"; last if ++$count > 3; } -e syntax OK Compare with an empty list: perl5.6.1 -MO=Deparse -e 'my $count = 1; while() { # this evaluates to true(!) print "hello world\n"; last if (++$count > 3); }' my $count = 1; for (;;) { print "hello world\n"; last if ++$count > 3; } -e syntax OK In perl5.8.4, an equivalent variant: while (1) { print 'hello,world'; last if ++$c > 3; } -e syntax OK perldfaq4 and perltrap have some warnings about lists in scalar context... (tends to just evaluate like the comma operator, etc.). An empty list has some very unintuitive effects apparently because it's, well, empty, I guess :). Speaking of lists in scalar context, look at the effect of a non-empty list here. Perl clearly lets you knowthat it has no idea what you're trying to do ;) $ perl -MO=Deparse -e '$c=1;while ( ("a","b","c") ){print "hello,world";last if ++$c>3;}' $c = 1; while ('???', '???', 'c') { print 'hello,world'; last if ++$c > 3; } -e syntax OK $ -- Charles DeRykus -----Original Message----- From: Joel Grow [mailto:joel@largest.org] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:36 PM To: spug-list@mail.pm.org Subject: SPUG: interesting while() behavior and hosting recs Hey Perl gurus, I recently noticed this very strange (to me at least) while() behavior: my $count = 1; while() { # this evaluates to true(!) print "hello world\n"; last if (++$count > 3); } Prints "hello world" 3 times. How is () evaluated to true?!? If I put "0", "undef", "", or a scalar set to any of those in the parens, it does what I expect--it skips the while loop. I thought "Hmm, maybe this is a strange empty list issue?", but no, the code below still skips the while loop: my $count = 1; my @empty = (); while(@empty) { # skips this while loop, as I'd expect print "hello world\n"; last if (++$count > 3); } In desperation, I thought maybe while() was evaluating $_ by default, since you can of course do: while () { but printing out $_ just before the while() loop showed it is undefined. What's going on? Also, does anyone have a web hosting company recommendation? I'm doing some tech work with a nonprofit and they're currently using XO. They have a Unix account with Perl access, but the only shell access is through this thing called VDE (virtual domain environment), basically a sandbox for CGI scripts. My main complaint is I'd have to telnet to the VDE. And to get mysql access they'd have to spend $50/month. I use pair.com for a personal site (and am generally happy with it), and have some experience with johncompanies.com. johncompanies.com is cool, but for this I'd like someone else to take care of making sure the web and mail servers are running and doing software updates. So a relatively simple unix account with Perl and rdbms (mysql or postgres preferably). Thanks! Joel _____________________________________________________________ Seattle Perl Users Group Mailing List POST TO: spug-list@mail.pm.org http://spugwiki.perlocity.org ACCOUNT CONFIG: http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/spug-list MEETINGS: 3rd Tuesdays, Location Unknown WEB PAGE: http://www.seattleperl.org From jlb at io.com Thu Sep 30 11:28:57 2004 From: jlb at io.com (jlb) Date: Thu Sep 30 11:28:58 2004 Subject: SPUG: interesting while() behavior and hosting recs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As far as ISP's, I've had great luck with dreamhost.com. This is after cycling through 3-4 different ISP's for various reasons that I found unsatisfactory. A real unix shell, pretty easy to administer web control panel, perl and mysql access, and more bandwidth and disk space than I can see myself using any time soon. From krahnj at telus.net Thu Sep 30 23:25:34 2004 From: krahnj at telus.net (John W. Krahn) Date: Thu Sep 30 23:25:48 2004 Subject: SPUG: interesting while() behavior and hosting recs In-Reply-To: References: <5196294.1096488844476.JavaMail.lmzaldivar@mac.com> Message-ID: <415CDC3E.7@telus.net> Joel Grow wrote: > Hey Perl gurus, I recently noticed this very strange (to me at least) > while() behavior: > > my $count = 1; > while() { # this evaluates to true(!) > print "hello world\n"; > last if (++$count > 3); > } > > Prints "hello world" 3 times. How is () evaluated to true?!? > > If I put "0", "undef", "", or a scalar set to any of those in the parens, > it does what I expect--it skips the while loop. I thought "Hmm, maybe > this is a strange empty list issue?", but no, the code below still skips > the while loop: > > my $count = 1; > > my @empty = (); > > while(@empty) { # skips this while loop, as I'd expect > print "hello world\n"; > last if (++$count > 3); > } > > In desperation, I thought maybe while() was evaluating $_ by default, > since you can of course do: > > while () { > > but printing out $_ just before the while() loop showed it is undefined. > > What's going on? That is working for the same reason that for ( ;; ) { ... } works in Perl as well as in C where Perl inherited it from. John -- use Perl; program fulfillment From krahnj at telus.net Thu Sep 30 23:59:49 2004 From: krahnj at telus.net (John W. Krahn) Date: Fri Oct 1 00:00:03 2004 Subject: SPUG: interesting while() behavior and hosting recs In-Reply-To: <5DF8FDE8DFE8744388602480FDCC0E310346FE86@xch-nw-23.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <5DF8FDE8DFE8744388602480FDCC0E310346FE86@xch-nw-23.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <415CE445.9030601@telus.net> DeRykus, Charles E wrote: > An array (AV) can meaningfully be evaluated in scalar context so > I'd expect @empty to fail. However, () is a list in scalar context As Randal has pointed out many times and as the FAQ clearly states: perldoc -q "What is the difference between a list and an array" [snip] As a side note, there's no such thing as a list in scalar context. > which doesn't behave in a predictable manner. That is because it doesn't exist. In the expression: while () { ... } there is NO list. As a side note, and has been recently discused on comp.lang.perl.misc, parentheses do not create a list. http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=UjE6d.138341%24D%25.46143%40attbi_s51 John -- use Perl; program fulfillment