From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jul 1 00:33:10 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: The Damian Hath Cometh! Message-ID: <20000630223310.A16036@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUGsters, I collected Damian Conway from the airport today, fed him some Thai food, and showed him around the residential areas of Kirkland, with which he was very impressed (especially with the prices of the waterfront homes thereabouts!). He was unfortunately given a bad cold by Nat Torkington at YAPC (or was it MJD, via Nat?), so he's planning to lay low in his hotel for a couple of days so he'll be in good shape for his four performances next week. We're planning a "SPUG-fest dinner meeting" on Monday night, "hygeia volente" (his health permitting), and perhaps another Tuesday night followed by a 4th-of-July fireworks-viewing event. Anybody who wants to participate please send me your contact info. His schedule is currently open for Tuesday daytime, and he's open to offers of private/group meetings with SPUGsters, overtures from corporate recruiters, you name it. Those wishing to contact him please get in touch with me, and I'll tell you how to reach him (email, by the way, is not an option; he hasn't read any since 6/20). -Tim *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | | DAMIAN CONWAY Seminars; Adv. OO Perl: 7/6, Parsing with Modules: 7/7 | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jul 1 16:41:28 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: 4th of July Cruising Party Message-ID: <20000701144128.A18340@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUGsters, In honou?r of our distinguished visitor's presence, and our annual celebration of winning our independence from England, which freed us from the dreaded "Road to Vegemite" followed by our friends Down Under, I'm organizing a dinner party plus cruise for the night of the 4th. (Short notice, I know, but Hey!, I'm a very busy guy!) The dinner party will be in downtown Seattle, at a location to be determined near the waterfront, starting at about 5:15. By 6:30, we need to be at Pier 57, to board an Argosy cruise ship that will navigate through the locks, and then sit in Lake Union to view the fireworks from Gasworks Park from 9 to 10:45. Then we take a bus back to downtown Seattle, arriving around 11:15pm. Argosy currently reports having many seats still available for this cruise ("The 7pm Locks Cruise"), but they could go quickly, so anybody who wants to join in please call Argosy at 623-1445 to book your seat. Their office hours are 8:30-6pm Sunday, and 7:30-7pm M-F. (I just might have one extra ticket myself at the last minute, so anybody who doesn't get one keep that in mind.) The price is $28, which is a real deal considering you're only paying a few bucks more than the standard "Locks Cruise" (which is quite interesting in its own right) for the fireworks viewing. (I did inquire about group-discount tickets, but the tiny concession they were offering wasn't worth the additional administrative hassles.) Also, those of you who want to attend the dinner party, please RSVP to me, and if possible provide restaurant recommendations for the immediate vicinity of Pier 57 (you can eat without cruising, if you wish). In light of this development, I think we should forget about a separate dinner party for 7/3, as earlier suggested. -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jul 1 21:35:08 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: 4th of July Cruising Party In-Reply-To: <20000701144128.A18340@timji.consultix.wa.com>; from tim@consultix-inc.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:41:28PM -0700 References: <20000701144128.A18340@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: <20000701193508.A19991@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUG-o-maniacs, Incidentally, one reason why this 4th-of-July Cruise idea was late in coming is that the only advertised cruises were $40 each, which I deemed a tad pricey for SPUGsters (at least those of use lacking "Stock Options"), and I didn't hear about the secret $28 option until today, when I called Argosy to renew by corporate membership and they let me in on the secret. ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 3 00:21:45 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: PGA: Perl Golf Teams Wanted for TPC! Message-ID: <20000702222145.A23656@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUGsters, Any of those attending the OpenSource Convention who are interested in entering a Perl Golf team, please read the following and sign up soon. -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== Announcing the First Annual Perl Golf Apocalypse Larry Wall, the father of Perl, has observed that the three virtues of a programmer are laziness, impatience, and hubris. Laziness has been explained as doing more with less. A variation of that is doing the same with less. For quite a while the newsgroup comp.lang.perl.misc has had threads where each poster was trying to solve a basic problem with shorter code than the previous post. This type of coding competition was named Perl Golf by Greg Bacon because in both Perl and physical golf the goal is to finish with the fewest (key)strokes. Now the Perl Golf Committee (led by Uri, who conceived the idea) has been hard at work organizing a Perl Golf Tournament for the 4th Perl Conference in Monterey this July. The Perl Golf Apocalypse (PGA) is for 10 teams, each comprised of up to 3 Perl hackers. Each team will be given its own computer to use and will to try to solve a set of simple problems by writing a short piece of Perl code. Each team must submit its code, which will then be tested and compared to the answers from the other teams. Each problem (or hole as we call them) will be given to all the teams at the same time and will have a time limit (about 5-7 minutes, depending on the hole). There will be 9 holes in all and after 4 of them the 5 lowest scoring teams will be cut (just like in real golf tournaments). There are three ways to score points on a hole. * First, if the code submitted by a team correctly solves the problem, 1 point is awarded. * Second, the correct answer with the fewest keystrokes is awarded 6 points with the next two runners up getting 5 and 4 points each. * Third, the correct answer which was submitted the earliest, is awarded 3 points with the next two runners up getting 2 and 1 points each. So a team can earn a maximum of 10 points on one hole. It is important to note that the execution speed of the code is not a factor in scoring. The holes will be judged by a Perl script created by us. It will check the correctness of all the submissions, rank them by the shortest code and also rank them by the timestamps on the submitted answer files. Then the script will award points and keep track of scores for each team. Another script will be used by the commentators to display the current point totals for the teams, the scoring for a given hole and the actual code submitted by the teams. After all the holes are finished, the teams will be ranked by score, and from highest to lowest, they will be allowed to choose their prizes. The prize list includes computers, refrigerators stuffed with booty, cruise discounts, cdroms, books, clothing, etc. Everyone who enters the tournament is guaranteed a prize. Our two guests, Chip Salzenberg and Chris Nandor will provide an entertaining commentary on the proceedings. This invitation is being sent to the Perl Mongers in advance of other groups to give you a first chance to register to play in the PGA. Groups of 3 or 2 registering together as a team will be given preference over single entrants, so get your local monger group to enter a team. Send your registration request to golf@sysarch.com with this information: Monger Affiliation Team Name Member Count Real name and email for each team member If you are a single entrant, do you want us to put you on a team? Optionally, tell us your level of perl experience You can also visit the Perl Golf page at http://www.sysarch.com/perl/golf/ which has the PGA rules and invitation, the prize and sponsor list, a real golfing thread from c.l.p.misc, and more. The Perl Golf Apocalypse Team Uri Guttman Brand Hilton Ronald Kimball Larry Rosler Damian Conway -- Uri Guttman --------- uri@sysarch.com ---------- http://www.sysarch.com SYStems ARCHitecture, Software Engineering, Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting The Perl Books Page ----------- http://www.sysarch.com/cgi-bin/perl_books The Best Search Engine on the Net ---------- http://www.northernlight.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address From andy at n2h2.com Mon Jul 3 00:25:38 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Changes in UBOCC parking schedule Message-ID: The people that manage the parking facility in the Union Bank of California Center (where N2H2, Inc. is located and SPUG is held) has changed the operating hours for the underground parking facility. The parking facility closes on Monday through Friday at 10:00 PM. Those leaving the facility after 10:00 PM will be charged a $25.00 Release Fee. -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 3 13:24:57 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damian Needs Mac Serial Adapter - Help! Message-ID: <20000703112457.A25289@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUG-nicians, Damian has an Apple Powerbook with him, and a modem, but he didn't bring an adapter cable, so he's stuck without Email access (which would be very helpful to him). He needs a cable that can connect to the modem's DB-25 female connector on one end, and some kind of funny roundish DIN-8 (or DIN-9, I really don't know exactly) Powerbook connector on the other. Can somebody lend him this kind of cable? He's very close to the Carillon Point complex in Kirkland, so if somebody over there could help him out, that would be very convenient. Alternatively, if someone could recommend a store within walking distance from there that might might sell such cables, that could also be helpful. He's reachable at 425-828-6585, Ext. 401. TIA, *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | | DAMIAN CONWAY Seminars; Adv. OO Perl: 7/6, Parsing with Modules: 7/7 | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 3 13:35:47 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: The Damian-o-Rama: Agenda Summary Message-ID: <20000703113547.A25369@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUGomaniacs, Due to the multiplicity of events surrounding Damian's visit (now known as "The Damianorama"), several have been asking for a recap, so here it is (with some new, late-breaking material also). -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 7/4, Tuesday: 4:30pm, Tour of Go2Net HQ at Pier 70; Next 3 people to RSVP to me can join current group 7/4, Tuesday: 5:15pm dinner, Downtown Seattle Location to be announced later today, I hope; I'm still searching for a decent, reasonably priced, no-need-for-a-water-view spot within walking distance of Pier 57; can somebody help? Regarding cuisine, non-fishy and non-spicy selections are required. Until further notice, the plan is for all prospective diners to meet at 5pm in front of the Argosy Cruises kiosk at Pier 57 (the one for the "Locks Cruise"; not the other one nearby). Stay tuned! PLEASE RSVP, SO WE'LL BE EXPECTING YOU! 7/4, Tuesday: 6:30-6:45pm, boarding "7pm Argosy Locks Cruise, w/Fireworks" at Pier 57 They have 9 tickets left as of 11:30am, for $28 each. Call 623-1445, 7:30am-7pm, to book a seat. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 7/5: 5:30 - 6:40pm Pre SPUG-Talk gathering at Rock Bottom Restaurant, 1333 5th Ave. 7/5: 6:45pm Entry (through temporarily unlocked 5th & Madison door) into Union Bank of California Building, in preparation for SPUG meeting 7/5: 7:00 - 9:00pm SPUG Meeting Damian speaks on "Multimethods: Polymorphism Gone Mad" 7/5: 9:59pm Last chance to exit from Union BofC Bldg's basement garage without paying an unreasonable post-10pm penalty of $25 on top of the very reasonable $4 night-time parking charge * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 7/6: 8-4pm, Kirkland Damian presents seminar on "Adv. OO Perl", through Consultix. (Some seats remain; see http://www.consultix-inc.com/advoop.html ) 7/6: 7:00 - 9:00pm E-SPUG Meeting, Redmond Damian speaks on "Quantum Superpositions and the First Virtue", Lucent Technologies, Redmond. http://espug.pm.org for details. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 7/7: 8-4pm, Kirkland Damian presents seminar on "Beyond Regexes: Text Parsing with Modules", through Consultix. (Some seats remain; see http://www.consultix-inc.com/parsing.html ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Whew! That's a lot of stuff! Hope each of you can attend some part of this Damian-o-Rama, to take advantage of Damian's first visit to our area. Thanks as usual to NeoInformatics, whose sponsorship has made some of these events possible! (www.neoinformatics.com; usually hiring Perl programmers!) *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | | DAMIAN CONWAY Seminars; Adv. OO Perl: 7/6, Parsing with Modules: 7/7 | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address From damian at cs.monash.edu.au Mon Jul 3 18:08:59 2000 From: damian at cs.monash.edu.au (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damian Needs Mac Serial Adapter - Help! Message-ID: <200007032308.JAA04370@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> Tim wrote: > Damian has an Apple Powerbook with him, and a modem, but he didn't > bring an adapter cable, so he's stuck without Email access (which > would be very helpful to him). He needs a cable that can connect > to the modem's DB-25 female connector on one end, and some kind of > funny roundish DIN-8 (or DIN-9, I really don't know exactly) > Powerbook connector on the other. Can somebody lend him this kind > of cable? Many thanks to PJ from N2H2 who kindly lent me the necessary cable, and even hand-delivered it across the lake. Just typical of the astonishing hospitality I've encountered here in Seattle. I'm looking forward to repaying your collective generosity with some fun talks on Wednesday and Thursday evening. Damian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From damian at cs.monash.edu.au Mon Jul 3 18:19:27 2000 From: damian at cs.monash.edu.au (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: PGA: Perl Golf Teams Wanted for TPC! Message-ID: <200007032319.JAA04426@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> > Any of those attending the OpenSource Convention who are interested > in entering a Perl Golf team, please read the following and sign up soon. As one of the "Horsemen" of the PGA, I'd strongly encourage (E)SPUG to field a team in this event. The prizes are good (e.g. the winning team gets to keep the SP-2 workstations they'll use in the contest!), and there's also the fame, glory, and sheer dark pleasure of CRUSHING OTHER MONGER GROUPS!!!!! >:-) Besides, I'm rapidly coming to think of Seattle as my adoptive US home and I definitely don't want to see those snooty Bostonians triumphing in the PGA. Uri would never let me hear the end of it! ;-) Damian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jul 5 11:34:18 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Dam-EYE-athon Announced in use.perl.org Message-ID: <20000705093418.A481@timji.consultix.wa.com> See use.perl.org today for a tongue-in-cheek announcement about the Damian Conway Festival, that starts today. Don't forget the SPUG meeting tonight at N2H2 HQ, Dowtown Seattle. -- ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jul 5 14:34:40 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: pre-meeting get-together? In-Reply-To: ; from joelg@amazon.com on Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 12:14:30PM -0700 References: <20000628153206.A6557@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: <20000705123440.B1076@timji.consultix.wa.com> On Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 12:14:30PM -0700, Joel Grow wrote: > Hi Tim, > > Will folks be getting together before tonight's talk? Rock Bottom? > I'm trying to round up an Amazon posse. > > Joel > I recommend that folks who want to dine at the Rock Bottom (see www.halcyon.com/spug) arrive there around 5:45-6pm, to be finished in time for the 6:40 walk over to the N2H2 HQ. Those who just want to drink can make their appearance somewhat later, of course, not having to allocate time for chewing and such. Look for other SPUGsters at the bar on your left as you enter, in the pool-table area, or way in the back at the big tables. See you there! ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From jsouza at cobaltgroup.com Wed Jul 5 14:28:23 2000 From: jsouza at cobaltgroup.com (Jonathan Souza) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: DC talk tonight References: Message-ID: <39638C57.ECB046A1@cobaltgroup.com> Is there still space tonight? If so where and when does it start? -- Jonathan Souza Software Engineer: Product Development The Cobalt Group: jsouza@cobaltgroup.com tel: 206.269.6363 ext 8289 Direct: 206.219.8289 800.909.8244 Fax: 206.219.8399 Home: courtassassin@home.com Phone: 206.762.1905 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From axhard2 at uswest.com Wed Jul 5 15:28:06 2000 From: axhard2 at uswest.com (Alyssa Harding) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: DC talk tonight References: <39638C57.ECB046A1@cobaltgroup.com> Message-ID: <39639A56.16525562@uswest.com> How about space for tomorrow night? A. Jonathan Souza wrote: > > Is there still space tonight? If so where and when does it start? > > -- > Jonathan Souza > Software Engineer: Product Development > The Cobalt Group: jsouza@cobaltgroup.com > tel: 206.269.6363 ext 8289 Direct: 206.219.8289 > 800.909.8244 Fax: 206.219.8399 > Home: courtassassin@home.com Phone: 206.762.1905 > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest -- Alyssa W. Harding Web Programmer U S WEST Creative Services phon: (206) 345-4073 cell: (206) 769-8735 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Rincewind is one of those people who gets in the way of his own happiness. If it was raining kisses he'd be the only person with an umbrella. -- (Terry Pratchett, CIX Pratchett Conference) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From davidpa at lucent.com Wed Jul 5 17:13:32 2000 From: davidpa at lucent.com (Patterson, David S (Pat)) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: DC talk tonight Message-ID: We've had over 30 RSVPs so far for the ESPUG venue at Lucent Technologies, 7 - 9 pm Thursday. We still have about 15 seats left... It is recommended that you send an RSVP to me (if you haven't already) if you wish to attend. > --- "In science, it doesn't matter if you're wrong, as long as you're not stupid. In business, it doesn't matter if you're stupid, so long as you're not wrong..." > David Patterson > Software Engineer > AVAYA communication > 6464 185th Ave NE > Redmond, WA 98052-6736 > 425-558-8008 x 2172 > 888-501-4835 Pgr > davidpa@lucent.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alyssa Harding [SMTP:axhard2@uswest.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 1:28 PM > To: SPUG > Subject: Re: SPUG: DC talk tonight > > How about space for tomorrow night? > > A. > > Jonathan Souza wrote: > > > > Is there still space tonight? If so where and when does it start? > > > > -- > > Jonathan Souza > > Software Engineer: Product Development > > The Cobalt Group: jsouza@cobaltgroup.com > > tel: 206.269.6363 ext 8289 Direct: 206.219.8289 > > 800.909.8244 Fax: 206.219.8399 > > Home: courtassassin@home.com Phone: 206.762.1905 > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your > Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use > spug-list-digest > > -- > Alyssa W. Harding > Web Programmer > U S WEST Creative Services > phon: (206) 345-4073 > cell: (206) 769-8735 > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Rincewind is one of those people who gets in the way of his own > happiness. > If it was raining kisses he'd be the only person with an umbrella. > -- (Terry Pratchett, CIX Pratchett Conference) > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From andy at n2h2.com Wed Jul 5 17:16:37 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Changes in UBOCC parking schedule In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Grrrrr. Apparently the notice sent to building tenants was wrong. The garage closes at 9:00 PM. This roughly translates to about 8:30 PM because the folks that work in the garage like to start closing up early so they don't have to wait around for people to get out. I'd just avoid the building's underground parking facility all together unless you've got cash to burn. Sorry folks. On Jul 2, 2000 @ 10:25pm, Andrew Sweger wrote: > The people that manage the parking facility in the Union Bank of > California Center (where N2H2, Inc. is located and SPUG is held) has > changed the operating hours for the underground parking facility. > > The parking facility closes on Monday through Friday at 10:00 PM. Those > leaving the facility after 10:00 PM will be charged a $25.00 Release Fee. -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From bill at celestial.com Wed Jul 5 18:16:19 2000 From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl regex -> POSIX regex Message-ID: <20000705161619.A22882@kstarr.celestial.com> Does anybody know of a script to convert perl regular expressions to the extended POSIX expressions? I've cobbled something together, but it's probably far from ideal. The problem I'm working on is passing fairly large quantities of text through about 3,000 different regular expressions, and this isn't the fastest thing in the world in perl. Flex barfs because of too many expressions so I have a simple C program that compiles them all once then loops through the compiled expressions. Bill -- INTERNET: bill@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Systems, Inc. UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ ``Never blame a legislative body for not doing something. When they do nothing, that don't hurt anybody. When they do something is when they become dangerous.'' Will Rogers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jul 5 18:32:02 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: DC talk tonight In-Reply-To: <39639A56.16525562@uswest.com>; from axhard2@uswest.com on Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 08:28:06PM +0000 References: <39638C57.ECB046A1@cobaltgroup.com> <39639A56.16525562@uswest.com> Message-ID: <20000705163202.C1621@timji.consultix.wa.com> On Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 08:28:06PM +0000, Alyssa Harding wrote: > How about space for tomorrow night? > > A. As far as I know, we don't really know how many people to expect for either meeting. Dave Patterson had requested RSVPs for the E-SPUG talk, so he might have a rough idea. On the other side of the lake, we don't have any solid numbers for tonight's SPUG talk, so we'll just have to wait and see. I recommend showing up promptly at 6:45, if possible, to avoid the possibility of having to stand in the hallway asking your neighbor "What did he say?" -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From andyj at microsoft.com Thu Jul 6 11:31:31 2000 From: andyj at microsoft.com (Andy Jacobs) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Searching for multiple strings Message-ID: <3AADCF833E74D111A2D700805F1951EF0DBFE2076B@red-pt-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> I've written a program that searches a lot of text sources for multiple search strings (among other things). The search strings are read as input from a file at run time (supplied by the user). The program builds a table of which search strings appear in which sources. Each source string may contain many search strings (perhaps overlapping), and each search string may appear in multiple source strings. My first implementation read the search strings into an array, and looped through the array, searching for each one (in each source string). This was not very efficient, and I suspected it was due to having to re-compile each search string each time it was used. My next implementation created one large string with "|"s to separate the strings, and then a grouping, so I could tell which string was found. Even though this second implementation allowed me to use the "/o" flag on the match (to compile only once) it was not much more efficient. My latest implementation is much more efficient - I create an array of closures where each one will search for a single string. Then I loop through the array, calling each closure in turn. (I'm not sure why this would be more efficient, but it seems to be - I suppose it's because the big search does much more backtracking, and the overhead of keeping track of the grouping as it backtracks). I suspect I could gain even more efficiency if I could go through the source string only once. I'm aware of a table-based technique that builds a state machine and lookup table, such that at any state you lookup the next state based on the next character in the source string, and the resulting state gives you any strings that were just found, and the new look-up table to find the next state, etc. My main question is: Has this been done already and available as a module/script in CPAN, etc.? My next question is: If not, what are your feelings on whether this would be more efficient (and thus a good use of my programming time)? And finally, any other suggestions? There are typically 50-100 search strings of approximately 10-30 characters each. And hundreds of sources that will be searched (typically 1K-10K of text). According to -d:DProf this is currently the bottleneck in my program. Thanks for any pointers, advice or discussion. - Andy Jacobs - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From davidpa at lucent.com Thu Jul 6 12:12:19 2000 From: davidpa at lucent.com (Patterson, David S (Pat)) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Pre-meeting festivities Message-ID: Spugskateers, For those of you who just can't get enough of the comeraderie and miscellaneous warm fuzzy feelings of togetherness with the SPUG/ESPUG community, I'd like to invite you to join Tim and Damian for drinks at the Red Robin Burgers & Spirits Restaurant in Redmond, prior to tonight's meeting. ;-) Details: Red Robin Burgers & Spirits Restaurant 7597 170th Ave NE (Northeast corner of Redmond Town Center) Redmond WA 98052 5:30 pm - 6:30 pm (give or take a drink...) The restaurant is located one block west of the 520/Redmond Way interchange, just south of the Dairy Queen on the corner of Redmond Way and 170th Ave NE. For the spatially challenged, I've provided a link to a local map. http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=7597170th+Ave+NE&city=Redmond &state=WA&slt=47.675000&sln=-122.123000&mlt=47.669600&mln=-122.105600&name=& zip=98052&country=us&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=9&desc=&cs=7&newmag=8 > --- "I know drinking kills brain cells--but only the weak ones..." > David Patterson > Software Engineer > AVAYA communication > 6464 185th Ave NE > Redmond, WA 98052-6736 > 425-558-8008 x 2172 > 888-501-4835 Pgr > davidpa@lucent.com > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From cmeyer at helvella.org Thu Jul 6 14:50:35 2000 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Searching for multiple strings In-Reply-To: <3AADCF833E74D111A2D700805F1951EF0DBFE2076B@red-pt-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> References: <3AADCF833E74D111A2D700805F1951EF0DBFE2076B@red-pt-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20000706125035.A29286@hobart.helvella.org> Andy, On Thu, Jul 06, 2000 at 09:31:31AM -0700, Andy Jacobs wrote: > I've written a program that searches a lot of text sources for multiple > search strings (among other things). The search strings are read as input > from a file at run time (supplied by the user). The program builds a table > of which search strings appear in which sources. Each source string may > contain many search strings (perhaps overlapping), and each search string > may appear in multiple source strings. Have a look at perlfaq6, specifically the question, 'How do I efficiently match many regular expressions at once?'. Can you define your problem more precisely? If you only need to know whether or not a line matched any of the patterns vs. specifically which patterns it matched, then you can bail out of the loop on the first match to save much time. -C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From gheil at uswest.net Thu Jul 6 13:42:43 2000 From: gheil at uswest.net (greg heil) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Searching for multiple strings References: <3AADCF833E74D111A2D700805F1951EF0DBFE2076B@red-pt-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3964D323.C7A7CC1@uswest.net> Andy The problem you outlined is known as the "exact set matching" problem. Actually it is slightly simpler - as you do not need to know the location of all matches, just the existence. However, the ESM is well enough solved, Eg p52 of: "Algorithms on Strings, Trees, and Sequences: Computer Science and Computational Biology" '97 by Dan Gusfield, http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~gusfield/ It is solved there to O(n+m+k) with n the size of the text, m the sum of the sizes of the patterns and k the number of hits of P in T. It sounds like your Perl solutions are having a hard time achieving a reduction from O(nm+cm) to O(nm) - ie effectively factoring out the compilation time for the search automata. If your problem is important enough you might want to implement a better algorithm directly. It is not clear to me how the designers of Perl could be given syntactic clues signaling you want to solve an ESM;-) Thus you may need to resort to a language that exposes more of the hardwares capabilities. -- greg heil mailto:gheil@acm.org http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From ajalis at cobaltgroup.com Thu Jul 6 13:54:50 2000 From: ajalis at cobaltgroup.com (Asim Jalis) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Class::Multimethod Question In-Reply-To: <200007032308.JAA04370@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au>; from Damian Conway on Tue, Jul 04, 2000 at 09:08:59AM +1000 References: <200007032308.JAA04370@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> Message-ID: <20000706115450.A14322@krypton.cobaltgroup.com> I am trying to use Class::multimethods to write object constructors and running into some problems. Here is a code sample: -----Code Begins----- #!/usr/bin/perl package ObjectA; use Class::Multimethods; multimethod new => ('$') => sub { return bless ({}, 'ObjectA'); }; package ObjectB; use Class::Multimethods; multimethod new => ('$') => sub { return bless ({}, 'ObjectB'); }; package main; my $x = new ObjectA; print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; my $x = ObjectA->new; print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; my $x = new ObjectB; print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; my $x = ObjectB->new; print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; -----Code Ends----- Here is the output I get: ref of x = [ObjectB] ref of x = [ObjectB] ref of x = [ObjectB] ref of x = [ObjectB] This is broken. The output should be ObjectA on the first two lines instead of ObjectB. It's clear that ObjectA->new is actually calling ObjectB::new("ObjectA") instead of ObjectA::new("ObjectA"). The problem goes away if I replace multimethods and use plain old Perl subs instead. Ideas? Asim - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From tim at consultix-inc.com Thu Jul 6 15:17:07 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Class::Multimethod Question In-Reply-To: <20000706115450.A14322@krypton.cobaltgroup.com>; from ajalis@cobaltgroup.com on Thu, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:54:50AM -0700 References: <200007032308.JAA04370@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> <20000706115450.A14322@krypton.cobaltgroup.com> Message-ID: <20000706131707.A5315@timji.consultix.wa.com> Asim, I've got a fellow with a funny accent next to me to whom I'm forwarding your question; expect an answer later this afternoon. -Tim On Thu, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:54:50AM -0700, Asim Jalis wrote: > I am trying to use Class::multimethods to write object constructors > and running into some problems. Here is a code sample: > > -----Code Begins----- > #!/usr/bin/perl > > package ObjectA; > use Class::Multimethods; > multimethod new => ('$') => sub { return bless ({}, 'ObjectA'); }; > > package ObjectB; > use Class::Multimethods; > multimethod new => ('$') => sub { return bless ({}, 'ObjectB'); }; > > package main; > > my $x = new ObjectA; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > my $x = ObjectA->new; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > my $x = new ObjectB; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > my $x = ObjectB->new; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > -----Code Ends----- > > Here is the output I get: > > ref of x = [ObjectB] > ref of x = [ObjectB] > ref of x = [ObjectB] > ref of x = [ObjectB] > > This is broken. The output should be ObjectA on the first two lines > instead of ObjectB. > > It's clear that ObjectA->new is actually calling ObjectB::new("ObjectA") > instead of ObjectA::new("ObjectA"). The problem goes away if I replace > multimethods and use plain old Perl subs instead. > > Ideas? > > Asim -- *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | | DAMIAN CONWAY Seminars; Adv. OO Perl: 7/6, Parsing with Modules: 7/7 | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From andyj at microsoft.com Thu Jul 6 14:15:28 2000 From: andyj at microsoft.com (Andy Jacobs) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Class::Multimethod Question Message-ID: You seem to be declaring both "new" functions with the same parameters (i.e., '$'). From memory of the talk last night, I think the syntax should be more like: multimethod new => (ObjectA) => sub [...] But in this case, as your examples show, there is enough information when calling your constructor to distinguish between ObjectA and ObjectB without using multimethods. The multimethod technique would make more sense if you were passing additional parameters to the constructor, and wanted to choose ObjectA or ObjectB based on the types of those parameters. - Andy Jacobs > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org > [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > Asim Jalis > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 11:55 AM > To: damian@conway.org > Cc: spug-list@pm.org > Subject: SPUG: Class::Multimethod Question > > > I am trying to use Class::multimethods to write object constructors > and running into some problems. Here is a code sample: > > -----Code Begins----- > #!/usr/bin/perl > > package ObjectA; > use Class::Multimethods; > multimethod new => ('$') => sub { return bless ({}, 'ObjectA'); }; > > package ObjectB; > use Class::Multimethods; > multimethod new => ('$') => sub { return bless ({}, 'ObjectB'); }; > > package main; > > my $x = new ObjectA; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > my $x = ObjectA->new; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > my $x = new ObjectB; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > my $x = ObjectB->new; > print "ref of x = [", ref($x), "]\n"; > > -----Code Ends----- > > Here is the output I get: > > ref of x = [ObjectB] > ref of x = [ObjectB] > ref of x = [ObjectB] > ref of x = [ObjectB] > > This is broken. The output should be ObjectA on the first two lines > instead of ObjectB. > > It's clear that ObjectA->new is actually calling > ObjectB::new("ObjectA") > instead of ObjectA::new("ObjectA"). The problem goes away if > I replace > multimethods and use plain old Perl subs instead. > > Ideas? > > Asim > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your > Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use > spug-list-digest > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From andyj at microsoft.com Thu Jul 6 16:24:05 2000 From: andyj at microsoft.com (Andy Jacobs) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Searching for multiple strings Message-ID: In reply to various helpful responses: The perlfaq6 gives a solution similar to what I have, although using the new qr// may be more efficient than a closure call. I'll have to learn more about qr// and give this a shot. I did try study() at one point, but it didn't help. However, I don't remember when I tried it, and it may be more helpful with my new implementation. My program needs the full list of all search strings that were in each source string, and which were not. So stopping early is not an option (unless all the search strings have been found). The method given at: http://www.effectiveperl.com/recipes/searching.html uses a closure technique similar to what I am already doing. But I think a different approach would improve things even more. Specifically, the algorithm I mentioned about creating a state machine and table based next state lookup (which I suspect is the ESM algorithm Greg mentioned, and could be implemented similar to the Knuth-Morris-Pratt algorithm given in "Mastering Algorithms with Perl" - but would need more work to have it accept multiple strings). In fact, I've previously written this in C, but was wondering if it had already been done in Perl (and in general if it would be worth the effort). If I do it in Perl, I'll probably add features like wildcards and repeating whitespace characters, etc., which I didn't do in my C version. Unless I hear otherwise, based on the responses so far, I'll assume this has not already been written in Perl. - Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org > [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > greg heil > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 11:43 AM > To: Andy Jacobs > Cc: 'spug-list@pm.org' > Subject: Re: SPUG: Searching for multiple strings > > > Andy > > The problem you outlined is known as the "exact > set matching" problem. Actually it is slightly simpler > - as you do not need to know the location of all > matches, just the existence. However, the ESM is well > enough solved, Eg p52 of: > "Algorithms on Strings, Trees, and Sequences: > Computer Science and Computational Biology" '97 by > Dan Gusfield, http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~gusfield/ > > It is solved there to O(n+m+k) with n the size of the > text, m the sum of the sizes of the patterns and k the > number of hits of P in T. > > It sounds like your Perl solutions are having a hard > time achieving a reduction from O(nm+cm) to O(nm) - ie > effectively factoring out the compilation time for the > search automata. > > If your problem is important enough you might want > to implement a better algorithm directly. It is not > clear to me how the designers of Perl could be given > syntactic clues signaling you want to solve an ESM;-) > Thus you may need to resort to a language that exposes > more of the hardwares capabilities. > > -- > greg heil > mailto:gheil@acm.org > http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your > Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use > spug-list-digest > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From ajalis at cobaltgroup.com Fri Jul 7 00:35:13 2000 From: ajalis at cobaltgroup.com (Asim Jalis) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Class::Multimethod Question In-Reply-To: ; from Andy Jacobs on Thu, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:15:28PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20000706223513.A14903@krypton.cobaltgroup.com> On Thu, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:15:28PM -0700, Andy Jacobs wrote: > You seem to be declaring both "new" functions with the same parameters > (i.e., '$'). From memory of the talk last night, I think the syntax should > be more like: > multimethod new => (ObjectA) => sub [...] Except this is a constructor. So you have to call it before you have an instance of the object to call it with. > But in this case, as your examples show, there is enough information when > calling your constructor to distinguish between ObjectA and ObjectB without > using multimethods. The multimethod technique would make more sense if you > were passing additional parameters to the constructor, and wanted to choose > ObjectA or ObjectB based on the types of those parameters. The multimethods technique can potentially be quite useful with constructors. It is common to provide one constructor which takes no parameters and then provide other constructors which over-ride the defaults. Asim - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From tuck at whistlingfish.net Fri Jul 7 13:40:10 2000 From: tuck at whistlingfish.net (Matt Tucker) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Class::Multimethod Question In-Reply-To: <20000706223513.A14903@krypton.cobaltgroup.com> Message-ID: <14100000.962995210@benzene> -- Asim Jalis spake thusly: >> But in this case, as your examples show, there is enough information >> when calling your constructor to distinguish between ObjectA and >> ObjectB without using multimethods. The multimethod technique would >> make more sense if you were passing additional parameters to the >> constructor, and wanted to choose ObjectA or ObjectB based on the >> types of those parameters. > > The multimethods technique can potentially be quite useful with > constructors. It is common to provide one constructor which takes > no parameters and then provide other constructors which over-ride the > defaults. A current possible workaround is: package Foo; sub new { my $class = shift; my $self = bless {}, $class; $self->init(@_); return $self; } multimethod init => (Foo) => sub { ... } multimethod init => (Foo HASH) => sub { ... } ...etc. However, it would be nice to have Multimethods actually do the right thing for new without requiring this workaround. - Matt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From damian at cs.monash.edu.au Fri Jul 7 21:35:42 2000 From: damian at cs.monash.edu.au (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Class::Multimethod Question Message-ID: <200007080235.MAA13043@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> > A current possible workaround is: [tidy solution deleted] > However, it would be nice to have Multimethods actually do the right > thing for new without requiring this workaround. I'm currently contemplating extending the parameter specification model so that one could specify a pattern that scalar value arguments should match: package Foo; use Class::Multimethods; multimethod new => (qr/Foo/) => sub { bless {}, $_[0]; } multimethod new => (qr/Foo/, HASH) => sub { bless { %$_[1] }, $_[0]; } multimethod new => (qr/Foo/, ARRAY) => sub { my %data; @data{qw(name rank serialnum)} = @$_[1]; bless \%data, $_[0]; } This would solve the problem, but the syntax is ugly :-( Damian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jul 8 11:27:35 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: The Dam-I-athon Done Endeth! Message-ID: <20000708092735.A11696@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUG-skateers (*TM, David Patterson): Thanks to all who took time out of their busy schedules to attend one or more of the many events in the last 10 days featuring OO Perl expert and Fair::Dinkum::Aussie Dr. Damian Conway, of Monash University, during his first visit to Seattle. Just to recap, "The Dam-I-athon" consisted of several Group Dinners, a group Fireworks Viewing/Liver-Vibrating event at Ground-Zero in Lake Union, inspirational SPUG (http://www.halcyon.com/spug) and E-SPUG (http://espug.pm.org) talks each attended by about 50 deranged Perl fanatics, and full-day seminars on "Adv. OOP" and "Text Parsing" attended by 31 paying customers (http://www.consultix-inc.com). Amazed Perl practitioners worldwide have been asking me "How Did (?:E-)?SPUG Ever Land Such a 'BIG FISH' (albeit an exceedingly humble one) In Our Pond?", so allow me to explain. One typically rainy day (Nota Benissimo: Seattle sucks, please don't move here if you're from California), I was minding my own business, doing my job as SPUG leader by rubber-stamping requests to 'spug-list-owner' of the form "approve [Ss]ubscribe spug-list 'rambo_force@pre-ipo.com' submitted by 'percy_milktoast@pre-ipo.com' ", when suddenly I was contacted by the good people at NeoInformatics (http://www.neoinformatics.com). They innocently expressed their willingness to fund a SPUG event such as "bringing in a Special Speaker" for the sole purpose of supporting the local Perl community, from which they hoped to recruit more new hires (like SPUGster Sean Owens, who got his job from their ad on our list). I thought for about 1.35 seconds about which Special Speaker would be most desirable, quickly settled on "The Damian", thought for another .15 seconds about whether I should put it to a SPUG-vote, immediately squelched the idea as totally unnecessary and a Complete Waste of Time, and furiously dashed off the quickest invitational email in history to damian@conway.org. Being the backward bumpkin that he is, one nucleotide-pair away from a Crocodile Wrangler, he went for the bait and fell into my trap! 9=} The rest is history. I know from my personal experience and from many "unsolicited testimonials" that he inspired, informed, and entertained huge throngs of SPUGsters during his visit, and that he even managed to displace Cable-TV Celebrity Steve Erwin ("The Crocodile Hunter") in the minds of many as the new "Australian Cultural Ambassador." [As a side note, when I invited him I had no idea he'd be interested in doing seminars here, but once I learned, being equipped to help stage such events, I rallied to his aid.] He is grateful for his warm reception and The Days The Sun Came Out, and impressed with the size and sophistication of our local Perl community. If you agree with me that it would be great to have him back again soon, please don't hesitate to convey that message to: damian@conway.org -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Sat Jul 8 15:47:29 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: *E-SPUG* PGA: Perl Golf Team Wanted for TPC! Message-ID: Hi all, This is a reposting of Tim's message from last week. Tim, Colin, and I have signed up as "Team SPUG". Tim thought it would be a good idea for E-SPUG to form a team. I don't know how many spots (of the 10) are still open. But I registered last night and got right in. Brian ---------------------- Forwarded by Brian Ingerson/Product Eng/Amlibs on 07/08/2000 12:36 PM --------------------------- Tim Maher/CONSULTIX @pm.org on 07/02/2000 10:21:45 PM Sent by: owner-spug-list@pm.org To: spug-list@pm.org cc: Subject: SPUG: PGA: Perl Golf Teams Wanted for TPC! SPUGsters, Any of those attending the OpenSource Convention who are interested in entering a Perl Golf team, please read the following and sign up soon. -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== Announcing the First Annual Perl Golf Apocalypse Larry Wall, the father of Perl, has observed that the three virtues of a programmer are laziness, impatience, and hubris. Laziness has been explained as doing more with less. A variation of that is doing the same with less. For quite a while the newsgroup comp.lang.perl.misc has had threads where each poster was trying to solve a basic problem with shorter code than the previous post. This type of coding competition was named Perl Golf by Greg Bacon because in both Perl and physical golf the goal is to finish with the fewest (key)strokes. Now the Perl Golf Committee (led by Uri, who conceived the idea) has been hard at work organizing a Perl Golf Tournament for the 4th Perl Conference in Monterey this July. The Perl Golf Apocalypse (PGA) is for 10 teams, each comprised of up to 3 Perl hackers. Each team will be given its own computer to use and will to try to solve a set of simple problems by writing a short piece of Perl code. Each team must submit its code, which will then be tested and compared to the answers from the other teams. Each problem (or hole as we call them) will be given to all the teams at the same time and will have a time limit (about 5-7 minutes, depending on the hole). There will be 9 holes in all and after 4 of them the 5 lowest scoring teams will be cut (just like in real golf tournaments). There are three ways to score points on a hole. * First, if the code submitted by a team correctly solves the problem, 1 point is awarded. * Second, the correct answer with the fewest keystrokes is awarded 6 points with the next two runners up getting 5 and 4 points each. * Third, the correct answer which was submitted the earliest, is awarded 3 points with the next two runners up getting 2 and 1 points each. So a team can earn a maximum of 10 points on one hole. It is important to note that the execution speed of the code is not a factor in scoring. The holes will be judged by a Perl script created by us. It will check the correctness of all the submissions, rank them by the shortest code and also rank them by the timestamps on the submitted answer files. Then the script will award points and keep track of scores for each team. Another script will be used by the commentators to display the current point totals for the teams, the scoring for a given hole and the actual code submitted by the teams. After all the holes are finished, the teams will be ranked by score, and from highest to lowest, they will be allowed to choose their prizes. The prize list includes computers, refrigerators stuffed with booty, cruise discounts, cdroms, books, clothing, etc. Everyone who enters the tournament is guaranteed a prize. Our two guests, Chip Salzenberg and Chris Nandor will provide an entertaining commentary on the proceedings. This invitation is being sent to the Perl Mongers in advance of other groups to give you a first chance to register to play in the PGA. Groups of 3 or 2 registering together as a team will be given preference over single entrants, so get your local monger group to enter a team. Send your registration request to golf@sysarch.com with this information: Monger Affiliation Team Name Member Count Real name and email for each team member If you are a single entrant, do you want us to put you on a team? Optionally, tell us your level of perl experience You can also visit the Perl Golf page at http://www.sysarch.com/perl/golf/ which has the PGA rules and invitation, the prize and sponsor list, a real golfing thread from c.l.p.misc, and more. The Perl Golf Apocalypse Team Uri Guttman Brand Hilton Ronald Kimball Larry Rosler Damian Conway -- Uri Guttman --------- uri@sysarch.com ---------- http://www.sysarch.com SYStems ARCHitecture, Software Engineering, Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting The Perl Books Page ----------- http://www.sysarch.com/cgi-bin/perl_books The Best Search Engine on the Net ---------- http://www.northernlight.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ For Subscriptions, Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION spug-list EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email address - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From damian at cs.monash.edu.au Sat Jul 8 18:07:16 2000 From: damian at cs.monash.edu.au (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: *E-SPUG* PGA: Perl Golf Team Wanted for TPC! Message-ID: <200007082307.JAA14590@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> > Tim, Colin, and I have signed up as "Team SPUG". Excellent! > Tim thought it would be a good idea for E-SPUG to form a team. I don't know > how many spots (of the 10) are still open. But I registered last night and > got right in. Last I heard there were six or seven slots left, but that was before Uri posted the general call to clpm and use.perl.org. I *want* to see Seattle finish 1 and 2 in this, so I heartily encourage ESPUG to field a team too! Damian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ryan at frogBot.com Sat Jul 8 18:06:19 2000 From: ryan at frogBot.com (Ryan Erwin) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: ESPUG::PGA::Team->new Message-ID: <01e701bfe931$20e5bea0$257e0218@cx575873b> Calling All Espuggers! Brian and Damian are right. We really should get a team together to represent ESPUG at TPC. I'm also interested in how many espuggers are planning at going to TPC. If you are planning on going to TPC, particularly if you are interested in Perl Golf, email me directly at ryan@frogbot.com. Thanks- Ryan Erwin ESPUG Emperor - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From damian at cs.monash.edu.au Sun Jul 9 02:54:19 2000 From: damian at cs.monash.edu.au (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: The Dam-I-athon Done Endeth! Message-ID: <200007090754.RAA15181@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> Well, all too soon it seems my visit to your beautiful city has come to an end. I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you all for the warmth of your welcome, for the pleasure of your company, and for your generosity as an audience. Special thanks to Alyssa, Sandy, JP, Peter, Ryan, Greg, Melissa, Andy, and Kevin. Extra special thanks to Kathy LeBarron and Neoinformatics for bringing me here. And extraordinarily special thanks to Tim, who has arranged everything and taken care of a poor colonial boy a long way from home. I hope SPUG realizes how lucky it is to have a such a gifted and generous leader. Looking forward to visiting again soon, Damian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From oxfordcorp at uswest.net Mon Jul 10 14:44:20 2000 From: oxfordcorp at uswest.net (Oxford Global Resources Inc.) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl programmers needed in Portland! Message-ID: <002601bfeaa7$3e41c940$3b93fea9@0018891190> One of the fastest growing companies in Oregon is looking for experienced Perl developers and architects. This company is large, well-financed, and pre-IPO. The positions would require relocation to Portland. Please call Margaret Dailey, 503-201-5250, or send your resume to margaret_dailey@oxfordcorp.com. All responses handled in confidence. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/spug-list/attachments/20000710/6e0de131/attachment.htm From gardner at sounddomain.com Mon Jul 10 17:37:16 2000 From: gardner at sounddomain.com (Jonathan Gardner) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Constants Message-ID: We're using mod_perl on apache and we want to improve the performance and ease of programming our scripts. One of the ideas was centralizing important urls in their appropriate modules. The problem is that having a module run on several scripts, the chance of having a script actually change a variable in that module is good, and since the modules are persistent, the change would remain after the script finished. So we need some way of protecting our variables from being changed, while keeping them easy to access. If this were C++ (and it isn't) I would define those variables as const. The perl constant pragma (or is it a module? I am not sure...) works but it is clunky to use. You can't use those constants as regular variables, unless you jimmy them around. My idea was to build a module called something like: Tie::Constanst Then when you wanted to make a variable constants, you would do it like this: use ConstantScalar; my $constant_scalar; tie $constant_scalar, 'ConstantScalar'; I could easily build similar modules for arrays and hashes. The variable would work just as any other, except that when you went to change it, it would die right away. Is there something out there that is easier to use than this? ____________________ Jonathan Gardner SoundDomain, Inc. gardner@sounddomain.com tel: 425-820-2771 x23 fax: 425-820-5951 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andy at n2h2.com Mon Jul 10 18:03:08 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:26 2004 Subject: SPUG: Constants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Jul 10, 2000 @ 3:37pm, Jonathan Gardner wrote: > We're using mod_perl on apache and we want to improve the performance and > ease of programming our scripts. One of the ideas was centralizing important > urls in their appropriate modules. The problem is that having a module run > on several scripts, the chance of having a script actually change a variable > in that module is good, and since the modules are persistent, the change > would remain after the script finished. So we need some way of protecting > our variables from being changed, while keeping them easy to access. I'm assuming you're using mod_perl via Apache::Registry and not writing actual mod_perl Perl handlers. Are you using global (package) variables? Shouldn't be. That gets rid of that problem. If you have file bound lexicals in the module (or lexicals bound to a closure), then you'll want to establish an initialization procedure for those scripts using the module (have &TheModule::import() perform the initialization for you for extra laziness). > If this were C++ (and it isn't) I would define those variables as const. The ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thank all that is good in the world (and Larry Wall)! > perl constant pragma (or is it a module? I am not sure...) works but it is > clunky to use. You can't use those constants as regular variables, unless > you jimmy them around. Perl's 'use constant pragma (which is a module) uses named subroutines as the constants. They become "inlined" if it's obvious to perl that the return value is indeed a constant. > My idea was to build a module called something like: > Tie::Constanst Bleh. Too complicated. -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tuck at whistlingfish.net Mon Jul 10 19:06:54 2000 From: tuck at whistlingfish.net (Matt Tucker) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Constants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <59990000.963274014@benzene> -- Andrew Sweger spake thusly: > On Jul 10, 2000 @ 3:37pm, Jonathan Gardner wrote: > >> perl constant pragma (or is it a module? I am not sure...) works but >> it is clunky to use. You can't use those constants as regular >> variables, unless you jimmy them around. > > Perl's 'use constant pragma (which is a module) uses named > subroutines as the constants. They become "inlined" if it's obvious > to perl that the return value is indeed a constant. You can also, if you don't want to "use constant" (and can't or won't use lexical variables) alias your package variables to constant values: package Foo; use strict; use vars qw($bar); *bar = \"This is a constant string\n"; package main; print $Foo::bar; <-- this would work $Foo::bar = "This is a new value\n"; <-- this would die - Matt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Tue Jul 11 15:17:17 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Review of Damian's Quantum talk, use.perl.org Message-ID: <20000711131717.A947@timji.consultix.wa.com> I just found a complete summary of Damian's YAPC Quantum Superpositions talk, along with back and forth commentary, at use.perl.org, under the heading "Perl Articles Roundup." Have a look! -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From wildwood_players at yahoo.com Tue Jul 11 18:35:31 2000 From: wildwood_players at yahoo.com (Richard Wood) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Closing a window from perl Message-ID: <20000711233531.7717.qmail@web111.yahoomail.com> Hi everyone, I have a web page of database column names. When you click on one of the names, javascript's open() function is called to open a new window and a perl script is invoked to fill it. -onClick=>"open('/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/$cur_col','Defn','resizable,alwaysRaised,width=220,height=180')"} The perl script defines a frameset and then re-invokes itself to fill the frame. frameset({-cols=>'100%'}, frame({-name=>'framit',-src=>"/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/framit?term=$frame_name"})); On the second pass through, the definition for the column is retrieved from a file, put into a textarea form field, a submit button is put on the page and the whole thing is displayed quite nicely. In this way, the user can update the definition if they know a better one. Now my question. How do I get rid of the dialog if the user updates the text and presses the submit button? I get the text back into the perl program but I can't figure out (or find documentation on) how to tell the dialog to go away. I figure I must have to send some sort of HTTP response header to say, "Thank-you very much but we won't be needing you anymore", but how do you do that? Regards, Rich Wood ===== Richard O. Wood Wildwood IT Consultants, Inc. wildwood_players@yahoo.com 206.605.2539 http://resumes.dice.com/richardowood __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From snickels at u.washington.edu Tue Jul 11 19:04:38 2000 From: snickels at u.washington.edu (Stephen Nickels) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Closing a window from perl In-Reply-To: <20000711233531.7717.qmail@web111.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: All you should have to do is print out a javascript window.close() statement. Something like: # warning, untested pseudo code ahead... if (we_want_to_close_the_window) { my $output = qq( ); print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; print $output; } # end of pseudo code... Does this help? --Steve Nickels On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, Richard Wood wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have a web page of database column names. When you > click on one of the names, javascript's open() > function is called to open a new window and a perl > script is invoked to fill it. > > -onClick=>"open('/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/$cur_col','Defn','resizable,alwaysRaised,width=220,height=180')"} > > The perl script defines a frameset and then re-invokes > itself to fill the frame. > > frameset({-cols=>'100%'}, > frame({-name=>'framit',-src=>"/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/framit?term=$frame_name"})); > > On the second pass through, the definition for the > column is retrieved from a file, put into a textarea > form field, a submit button is put on the page and the > whole thing is displayed quite nicely. In this way, > the user can update the definition if they know a > better one. > > Now my question. How do I get rid of the dialog if > the user updates the text and presses the submit > button? I get the text back into the perl program but > I can't figure out (or find documentation on) how to > tell the dialog to go away. I figure I must have to > send some sort of HTTP response header to say, > "Thank-you very much but we won't be needing you > anymore", but how do you do that? > > Regards, > > Rich Wood > > ===== > Richard O. Wood > Wildwood IT Consultants, Inc. > wildwood_players@yahoo.com > 206.605.2539 > http://resumes.dice.com/richardowood > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return" -Leonardo da Vinci - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Tue Jul 11 19:32:16 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: Closing a window from perl References: <20000711233531.7717.qmail@web111.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <059c01bfeb98$a12b2960$28e842cf@iwebx1> Do you want to nuke the window as soon as they hit the submit button, or do you want your .cgi program to do it's magic, and then nuke the window after it finishes? If you want to nuke the window immediately on submit, then you'll likely have some problems, as your program needs a place to exit....but here's how you'd do it:
A more elegant way is to have the form submit to your .cgi and have your cgi send this as it's response: print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"; print "self.close()"; exit 0; You could, of course make the return not simply close the window, automatically as that example does, but instead give the user a button to hit (so that they know your .cgi did it's thing) John ======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Wood" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 4:35 PM Subject: SPUG: Closing a window from perl > Hi everyone, > > I have a web page of database column names. When you > click on one of the names, javascript's open() > function is called to open a new window and a perl > script is invoked to fill it. > > -onClick=>"open('/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/$cur_col','Defn','resizable,alwaysRaised,width=220,height=180')"} > > The perl script defines a frameset and then re-invokes > itself to fill the frame. > > frameset({-cols=>'100%'}, > frame({-name=>'framit',-src=>"/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/framit?term=$frame_name"})); > > On the second pass through, the definition for the > column is retrieved from a file, put into a textarea > form field, a submit button is put on the page and the > whole thing is displayed quite nicely. In this way, > the user can update the definition if they know a > better one. > > Now my question. How do I get rid of the dialog if > the user updates the text and presses the submit > button? I get the text back into the perl program but > I can't figure out (or find documentation on) how to > tell the dialog to go away. I figure I must have to > send some sort of HTTP response header to say, > "Thank-you very much but we won't be needing you > anymore", but how do you do that? > > Regards, > > Rich Wood > > ===== > Richard O. Wood > Wildwood IT Consultants, Inc. > wildwood_players@yahoo.com > 206.605.2539 > http://resumes.dice.com/richardowood > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From wildwood_players at yahoo.com Wed Jul 12 13:01:21 2000 From: wildwood_players at yahoo.com (Richard Wood) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Closing a window from perl Message-ID: <20000712180121.6389.qmail@web113.yahoomail.com> John & Stephan, et.al. Thanks for your assistance. I have things working now. I wasn't able to get the print self.close() to work but printing the ); print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; print $output; } Thanks for your help. Regards, Rich Wood --- Richard Wood wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have a web page of database column names. When > you > click on one of the names, javascript's open() > function is called to open a new window and a perl > script is invoked to fill it. > > -onClick=>"open('/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/$cur_col','Defn','resizable,alwaysRaised,width=220,height=180')"} > > The perl script defines a frameset and then > re-invokes > itself to fill the frame. > > frameset({-cols=>'100%'}, > frame({-name=>'framit',-src=>"/cgi-bin/defn.cgi/framit?term=$frame_name"})); > > On the second pass through, the definition for the > column is retrieved from a file, put into a textarea > form field, a submit button is put on the page and > the > whole thing is displayed quite nicely. In this way, > the user can update the definition if they know a > better one. > > Now my question. How do I get rid of the dialog if > the user updates the text and presses the submit > button? I get the text back into the perl program > but > I can't figure out (or find documentation on) how to > tell the dialog to go away. I figure I must have to > send some sort of HTTP response header to say, > "Thank-you very much but we won't be needing you > anymore", but how do you do that? > > Regards, > > Rich Wood > > ===== > Richard O. Wood > Wildwood IT Consultants, Inc. > wildwood_players@yahoo.com > 206.605.2539 > http://resumes.dice.com/richardowood > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from > anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: > owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: > ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL > by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; > otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > ===== Richard O. Wood Wildwood IT Consultants, Inc. wildwood_players@yahoo.com 206.605.2539 http://resumes.dice.com/richardowood __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From peter at hivnet.fhcrc.org Wed Jul 12 13:28:23 2000 From: peter at hivnet.fhcrc.org (Peter Dueber) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string Message-ID: <200007121828.LAA03903@scharp.fhcrc.org> Anyone have a good technique (maybe using map?) to take a string (with embedded new-lines) like the following: $x = " 'xyz' = '/export/home' 'adfd' = '/usr/there' 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' etc"; and directly convert it to a hash equivalent to : %hash = ('xyz' => '/export/home', 'adfd' => '/usr/there', 'ddddd => '/someplace/else', etc. ); Lost in map space. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andy at n2h2.com Wed Jul 12 13:50:42 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string In-Reply-To: <200007121828.LAA03903@scharp.fhcrc.org> Message-ID: This comes close: %hash = split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x; And this cleans it up a little bit: %hash = map /'(.*)'/, split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x; On Jul 12, 2000 @ 11:28am, Peter Dueber wrote: > Anyone have a good technique (maybe using map?) to take a string (with embedded new-lines) > like the following: > > $x = " > 'xyz' = '/export/home' > 'adfd' = '/usr/there' > 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' > etc"; > > and directly convert it to a hash equivalent to : > > %hash = ('xyz' => '/export/home', > 'adfd' => '/usr/there', > 'ddddd => '/someplace/else', > etc. > ); -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andyj at microsoft.com Wed Jul 12 13:57:52 2000 From: andyj at microsoft.com (Andy Jacobs) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string Message-ID: You could do: %hash = split /\s*[\n=]\s*/, $x; but this keeps the single quotes, and doesn't like the initial newline in your example. But I'm sure you can work out the rest. ;-) - Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org > [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > Peter Dueber > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 11:28 AM > To: spug-list@pm.org > Subject: SPUG: hash from string > > > Anyone have a good technique (maybe using map?) to take a > string (with embedded new-lines) > like the following: > > $x = " > 'xyz' = '/export/home' > 'adfd' = '/usr/there' > 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' > etc"; > > and directly convert it to a hash equivalent to : > > %hash = ('xyz' => '/export/home', > 'adfd' => '/usr/there', > 'ddddd => '/someplace/else', > etc. > ); > > > Lost in map space. > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your > Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use > spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tuck at whistlingfish.net Wed Jul 12 14:38:47 2000 From: tuck at whistlingfish.net (Matt Tucker) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string In-Reply-To: <200007121828.LAA03903@scharp.fhcrc.org> Message-ID: <87020000.963430727@benzene> -- Peter Dueber spake thusly: > Anyone have a good technique (maybe using map?) to take a string > (with embedded new-lines) like the following: > > $x = " > 'xyz' = '/export/home' > 'adfd' = '/usr/there' > 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' > etc"; > > and directly convert it to a hash equivalent to : > > %hash = ('xyz' => '/export/home', > 'adfd' => '/usr/there', > 'ddddd => '/someplace/else', > etc. > ); %hash = map { /'(.*)' = '(.*)'/; defined $2 ? ($1, $2) : (); } split "\n", $x; Modify the regexp as needed for your particular input. - Matt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ronh at iainc.com Wed Jul 12 15:18:24 2000 From: ronh at iainc.com (Ron Hartikka) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string In-Reply-To: <200007121828.LAA03903@scharp.fhcrc.org> Message-ID: # Hope this helps. # This code $x = " 'xyz' = '/export/home' 'adfd' = '/usr/there' 'ddddd' = '/someplace/else' "; while ($x =~ /'(.*?)' = '(.*?)'/g) { $hash{$1} = $2; print "\$hash{$1} = $2 = $hash{$1}\n"; } __END__ # has this output $hash{xyz} = /export/home = /export/home $hash{adfd} = /usr/there = /usr/there $hash{ddddd} = /someplace/else = /someplace/else # (on my machine). # As for map, it wants a list and you have a scalar (the string). # Depending on details of your actual input you may need to make the regular expression smarter. # For example, maybe you need to put \s* around the =, etc. # Note that the regular expression does not use the newlines; I even took one out. Ron Hartikka -----Original Message----- From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Peter Dueber Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 2:28 PM To: spug-list@pm.org Subject: SPUG: hash from string Anyone have a good technique (maybe using map?) to take a string (with embedded new-lines) like the following: $x = " 'xyz' = '/export/home' 'adfd' = '/usr/there' 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' etc"; and directly convert it to a hash equivalent to : %hash = ('xyz' => '/export/home', 'adfd' => '/usr/there', 'ddddd => '/someplace/else', etc. ); Lost in map space. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com Wed Jul 12 15:27:33 2000 From: ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com (ced@carios2.ca.boeing.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string Message-ID: <200007122027.NAA27994@carios2.ca.boeing.com> > This comes close: > %hash = split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x; > And this cleans it up a little bit: > %hash = map /'(.*)'/, split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x; On Jul 12, 2000 @ 11:28am, Peter Dueber wrote: > Anyone have a good technique (maybe using map?) to take a string (with embedded new-lines) > like the following: > > $x = " > 'xyz' = '/export/home' > 'adfd' = '/usr/there' > 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' > etc"; > > and directly convert it to a hash equivalent to : > > %hash = ('xyz' => '/export/home', > 'adfd' => '/usr/there', > 'ddddd => '/someplace/else', > etc. > ); Or, to avoid initial blank fields becoming null hash keys: my %hash = map { /\S/ ? $_ : () } split /\n|\s*=\s*/ => $x; There may be better golfing around too :) Rgds, -- Charles DeRykus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From peter at hivnet.fhcrc.org Wed Jul 12 15:34:42 2000 From: peter at hivnet.fhcrc.org (Peter Dueber) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string Message-ID: <200007122034.NAA13642@scharp.fhcrc.org> Many thanks to all the responses! After trying all of them (so far) the winner is: %hash = map /'(.*)'/, split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x; by Andrew Sweger it works _really_ well, thanks again Andy. Ok, how 'bout this one: instead of $x = " 'xyz' = '/export/home' 'adfd' = '/usr/there' 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' etc"; it has integers on the left side: $x = " 1='strings with blanks or whatever' 2='another set of words' etc. Peter Dueber, Esq. SCHARP/HIVNET Statistical Center Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center 1100 Fairview Ave N, MW-500 PO Box 19024 Seattle, WA 98109-1024 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From chris at enthusiasm.com Wed Jul 12 16:05:23 2000 From: chris at enthusiasm.com (Christopher Cavnor) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: OOP ponderances Message-ID: <396CDD93.493B8316@enthusiasm.com> Need some assistance from the OOP people in the audience... I have a class (boiled-down code below), let's call it "Test". All is fine with the class until I call the "walker" method from the "gather" method. What I want is for the "gather" method to know that it is a member of class Test, but (I assume because of the callback syntax), it sees itself as a member of HTML::Element (inherited by HTML::TreeBuilder). How do I pass a reference to class Test in the callback? Thanks for any help; Chris ------------------------------------------- Succinct and fallible code digest below ------------------------------------------- package Test; sub new { my ($class, $email) = @_; my $self = {}; bless $self, $class; # Create a User Agent object, give it a name, email ID $self->{'ua'} = new LWP::RobotUA 'Enthusiasm_EventScanBot/1.0', $email; # Create hash to record nodes $self->{'record'} = {}; return $self; } ... #call gather_links($self, $data); ... sub gather { require HTML::TreeBuilder; my ($self, $data) = @_; my @urls; $self->{'tree'} = HTML::TreeBuilder->new; # empty tree $self->{'tree'}->parse($data); for (@{ $self->{'tree'}->extract_links('a') }) { my($link, $element) = @$_; push @urls, $link; } #walk the tree to find event info $self->{'tree'}->traverse(\&walker); #<-----this imfamous callback routine #dispose of tree $self->{'tree'}->delete; return @urls; } sub walker { my ( $self, $node, $start, $depth, $text_parent, $rel_index ) = @_; # this should report $self as an instance of package test, but reports HTML::Element # which is a class that HTML::TreeeBuilder inherits from. $self->{'record'}{$node} = 1; #this would fail return 1; #keep recursing } - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From peter at hivnet.fhcrc.org Wed Jul 12 16:58:12 2000 From: peter at hivnet.fhcrc.org (Peter Dueber) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string Message-ID: <200007122158.OAA18797@scharp.fhcrc.org> Something interesting: If one strips off leading and trailing whitespace AND the quotes, this works for both cases ('ddd' = 'dkdkdkd' or 2='dkd kdkdk'): $x =~ s/^\s+|\s+$|'//g; %hash = split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x; no map, both cases, ie, works for: $x = " 'xyz' = '/export/home' 'adfd' = '/usr/there' 'ddddd = '/someplace/else' etc"; and $x = " 1='strings with blanks or whatever' 2='another set of words' etc. Now, how can I get it into _one_ line? The following returns nothing: %hash = split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x =~ s/^\s+|\s+$|'//g; - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From eric at go2net.com Wed Jul 12 17:44:26 2000 From: eric at go2net.com (Eric Lundberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: OOP ponderances In-Reply-To: <396CDD93.493B8316@enthusiasm.com>; from chris@enthusiasm.com on Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 02:05:23PM -0700 References: <396CDD93.493B8316@enthusiasm.com> Message-ID: <20000712154426.G5189@go2net.com> I've done things like: package foo; sub a_function { my ($self, $arg1, $arg2) = @_; ... } sub another_foo_function { my ($self, $some_other_object) = @_; ########################## # Adding the callback here $some_other_object->add_callback( sub { $self->a_function(@_); } ); } then in some_other_object package some_other_object sub add_callback { my ($self, $callback) = @_; push(@{$self->{CALLBACKS}}, $callback); } sub bar { my ($self) = @_; ########################### # Calling the callback here foreach my $callback (@{$self->{CALLBACKS}}) { $callback->($arg1, $arg2, ...); } } might not be the best way to do it, but the packages all seem to work out right (I.e., the callback knows it is of package foo. ) peace, --e; On Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 02:05:23PM -0700, Christopher Cavnor wrote: > Need some assistance from the OOP people in the audience... > > I have a class (boiled-down code below), let's call it "Test". All is > fine with the class until I call the "walker" method from the "gather" > method. What I want is for the "gather" method to know that it is a > member of class Test, but (I assume because of the callback syntax), it > sees itself as a member of HTML::Element (inherited by > HTML::TreeBuilder). > > How do I pass a reference to class Test in the callback? > > Thanks for any help; > Chris > > ------------------------------------------- > Succinct and fallible code digest below > ------------------------------------------- > > > package Test; > > sub new { > my ($class, $email) = @_; > > my $self = {}; > bless $self, $class; > > # Create a User Agent object, give it a name, email ID > $self->{'ua'} = new LWP::RobotUA 'Enthusiasm_EventScanBot/1.0', > $email; > > # Create hash to record nodes > $self->{'record'} = {}; > > return $self; > } > > ... > #call gather_links($self, $data); > ... > > sub gather { > require HTML::TreeBuilder; > > my ($self, $data) = @_; > my @urls; > > $self->{'tree'} = HTML::TreeBuilder->new; # empty tree > $self->{'tree'}->parse($data); > > for (@{ $self->{'tree'}->extract_links('a') }) { > my($link, $element) = @$_; > push @urls, $link; > } > > #walk the tree to find event info > $self->{'tree'}->traverse(\&walker); #<-----this imfamous callback > routine > #dispose of tree > $self->{'tree'}->delete; > > return @urls; > } > > sub walker { > my ( $self, $node, $start, $depth, $text_parent, $rel_index ) = @_; > > # this should report $self as an instance of package test, but > reports HTML::Element > # which is a class that HTML::TreeeBuilder inherits from. > > $self->{'record'}{$node} = 1; #this would fail > > return 1; #keep recursing > } > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tuck at whistlingfish.net Wed Jul 12 20:10:13 2000 From: tuck at whistlingfish.net (Matt Tucker) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string In-Reply-To: <200007122158.OAA18797@scharp.fhcrc.org> Message-ID: <8300000.963450613@benzene> It's funny how some of the simplest problems generate the most traffic. -- Peter Dueber spake thusly: > $x =~ s/^\s+|\s+$|'//g; > %hash = split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x; > > Now, how can I get it into _one_ line? The following returns nothing: > > %hash = split /\n|\s*=\s*/, $x =~ s/^\s+|\s+$|'//g; The trouble is that $x =~ s/...//. returns the number of substitutions rather than $x itself, so you can't split it. To have it on one line you could do: %hash = split /\n|\s*=\s*/, ($x =~ s/^\s+|\s+$|'//mg, $x); although I think that's kind of silly. Also, note that the switches to s/// should be /mg rather than just /g. Otherwise you can end up with spaces at the beginning of all lines but the first. - Matt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jul 12 22:02:14 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string In-Reply-To: <200007122027.NAA27994@carios2.ca.boeing.com>; from ced@carios2.ca.boeing.com on Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 01:27:33PM -0700 References: <200007122027.NAA27994@carios2.ca.boeing.com> Message-ID: <20000712200214.A5801@timji.consultix.wa.com> I'm as fond of map() as the next JAPH, but unless I'm missing something about the problem at hand, I don't see why map(), or even split(), is needed; it can all be done with capturing parens and a matching operator: $x = " 'xyz' = '/export/home' 'adfd' = '/usr/there' 'ddddd' = '/someplace/else' "; %hash = $x =~ /'([^']+)'/sg; Or, if we're unwilling to assume that we've got an even number of quoted strings: %hash = $x =~ /'([^']+)'.+?'([^']+)'/sg; *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | | DAMIAN CONWAY Seminars; Adv. OO Perl: 7/6, Parsing with Modules: 7/7 | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Jul 14 15:10:08 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: hash from string In-Reply-To: <200007141859.LAA21355@scharp.fhcrc.org>; from peter@hivnet.fhcrc.org on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 11:59:26AM -0700 References: <200007141859.LAA21355@scharp.fhcrc.org> Message-ID: <20000714131008.A7343@timji.consultix.wa.com> On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 11:59:26AM -0700, Peter Dueber wrote: > By george you're right Tim! > > However it doesn't work for the case: digit = 'quoted string' > > 2='something' > 3='something else' > etc. Didn't know that it was supposed to! But all that would take is a modification to the RE; I initially tried a solution that did it all with one matching operator, but it was too complex and ugly, so I'll show you these easier solutions: $x=" 'abc' = '/abc/xyz', 2 = '/abc/xyz', 'bac' = '/bac/xyz', 33 = '/c/z' "; # pre-process to quote digit strings: $x =~ s/(\d+)(\s*=)/'$1'$2/g; # now run original one-liner solution: %hash = $x =~ /'([^']+)'.+?'([^']+)'/g; # Or, less "scrutably", using a hightly contrived one-liner: %hash = (($x =~ s/(\d+)(\s*=)/'$1'$2/g), $x) =~ /'([^']+)'.+?'([^']+)'/g; -Tim *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jul 15 15:01:35 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: TPC Dinner Sunday night? Message-ID: <20000715130135.A12835@timji.consultix.wa.com> Any of you who are going to the Perl Conference, and arriving tomorrow, want to meet for dinner/drinks? Can anybody name a rendezvous place off the top of his/her head? Interested parties please get back to me and I'll try to arrange something. Specify your Hotel, and its phone number also. *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andy at n2h2.com Sat Jul 15 19:10:04 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: TPC Dinner Sunday night? In-Reply-To: <20000715130135.A12835@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: The main lobby of the Double Tree (adjacent to the convention center) makes a pretty good meeting place. The registration booths were there last year (but I recall something about it moving to the third floor this year). There's several restaurants along Calle Principal and/or Alvarado. Here's a list from Yahoo: http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypResults.py?Pyt=Typ&stx=8903827&stp=y&addr=2+Portola+Plz&city=Monterey&state=CA&zip=93940&slt=36.601200&sln=-121.894300&cs=9 I recall India's Clay Oven was decent. Not sure if it's up to your standards, Timm ;-) On Jul 15, 2000 @ 1:01pm, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: > Any of you who are going to the Perl Conference, and arriving tomorrow, > want to meet for dinner/drinks? Can anybody name a rendezvous place > off the top of his/her head? Interested parties please get back to me > and I'll try to arrange something. Specify your Hotel, and its phone > number also. -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From damian at cs.monash.edu.au Sat Jul 15 19:58:28 2000 From: damian at cs.monash.edu.au (Damian Conway) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: TPC Dinner Sunday night? Message-ID: <200007160058.KAA08530@indy05.csse.monash.edu.au> Andy wrote: > The main lobby of the Double Tree (adjacent to the convention center) > makes a pretty good meeting place. Yep. > I recall India's Clay Oven was decent. Not sure if it's up to your > standards, Timm ;-) I ate there last year - it was quite good. And admirably close by. :-) Not sure whether I'll get the chance to join you tomorrow night. I probably won't reach my hotel until 6.00 and I have registration and A/V check to get through as well. I also need an early night before the onslaught. Count me as an indefinite-maybe-shading-towards-probably-not-unless- things-go-unexpectedly-well. :-( Damian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Sat Jul 15 23:38:09 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: TPC Dinner Sunday night? Message-ID: Colin and I will be staying at the Hyatt. I'd be interested in meeting up. Colin mentioned that he heard Randall Schwartz was having a party with free beer (not free software). Where are you staying, Tim? Brian Tim Maher/CONSULTIX @pm.org on 07/15/2000 01:01:35 PM Sent by: owner-spug-list@pm.org To: spug-list@pm.org cc: Subject: SPUG: TPC Dinner Sunday night? Any of you who are going to the Perl Conference, and arriving tomorrow, want to meet for dinner/drinks? Can anybody name a rendezvous place off the top of his/her head? Interested parties please get back to me and I'll try to arrange something. Specify your Hotel, and its phone number also. *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Sun Jul 16 01:13:42 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org Message-ID: Hi Everyone, My name is Brian Ingerson. I have been attending SPUG meetings regularly since August of last year. Some of you may know me from the talks I gave in May about "Extending Perl with C" and "Perl Internals" (at ESPUG). I was very impressed by the volume of technically savvy spugsters who turned out for the latest SPUG and ESPUG meetings featuring Dr Damian Conway. I was also a bit surprised. Where has everyone been all year? After the meetings I lamented to Colin and Ryan that the August attendance would probably drop back down to the usual 10-20. (I think I have the all-time record low of 6 attendees for "Perl Internals"; 2 of whom were newbies 8^O) I pondered about what could be done to raise the interest level of our organization. Obviously the present format of discussing programming topics and defaulting to the "Cookbook", isn't a huge draw. And I don't reckon we can count on guest speakers of Damian's caliber to be showing up each month. But what if the meetings could be more proactive; if we could come to not only discuss programming, but actually do it. If we could work together on building something useful and have it continue from month to month. What if everyone could contribute according to their level, and everyone could learn hands-on and by example. And finally, what if we could take the results of our collaboration and return it to the Perl community. Here's my idea: I think we should have interested members of SPUG and ESPUG work together to create a new module for the CPAN. We'd register the entire group as a single CPAN author (handle = SPUG). (This automatically gives us an email address of SPUG@cpan.org which could be used for the author address of the module and forwarded to a spug-dev-list@pm.org) We can vote on a project, work on its design, break the work into chunks, have people volunteer for the various duties, code it, package it, upload it, and maintain it using the mailing list. This would probably span several months. We'd likely need a Development Coordinator, a PAUSE Uploader (someone with the password to actually upload), and someone to host a source-code repository, at a minimum. We can work out those details a SPUG meeting. This project should not only be highly educational, but hopefully would give people a good reason to drag themselves out once a month. At the very least, it would give us firsthand knowledge of how to create and contribute a full-blown open source project to the CPAN. I don't think many people in our group have much experience at this. When I took a poll at the "Extending Perl" meeting, not one of the 20 or so fairly seasoned programmers had ever contributed (including myself). But the real intent of this would be to make (E)SPUG meetings a bit more attractive to all you smart people (and to keep Tim and Ryan's efforts alive). I suggested the proposal to Tim (Maher) yesterday, and he seemed to take the bait ;-) I went ahead and requested the PAUSE id. We should get confirmation of the registration within a week. Tim agreed to devote the August meeting to the initial discussion/planning/voting phase. We need to come up a good module idea to work on. Whaddya think? Off to the Conference :-)!!! Brian PS Check out these sites for CPAN and PAUSE info: http://www.cpan.org/misc/cpan-faq.html http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/modules/04pause.html http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/modules/ #mailing list archive where our request is pending - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From highroad at zipcon.net Sun Jul 16 09:45:15 2000 From: highroad at zipcon.net (highroad@zipcon.net) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org References: Message-ID: <3971CA7B.CC8B0DA7@zipcon.net> I know why I haven't been showing up. It was made clear that you would not be welcome at the meetings unless you read the applicable "Cookbook" chapter. And in another post someone said that the "Cookbook" wasn't very good. I was reluctant to read a book of questionable merit just to be able to go to the meetings. How about unlinking the "CookBook" from the meetings? Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation). Bob B. B.Ingerson@epixtech.com wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > My name is Brian Ingerson. I have been attending SPUG meetings regularly > since August of last year. Some of you may know me from the talks I gave in > May about "Extending Perl with C" and "Perl Internals" (at ESPUG). > > I was very impressed by the volume of technically savvy spugsters who > turned out for the latest SPUG and ESPUG meetings featuring Dr Damian > Conway. I was also a bit surprised. Where has everyone been all year? After > the meetings I lamented to Colin and Ryan that the August attendance would > probably drop back down to the usual 10-20. (I think I have the all-time > record low of 6 attendees for "Perl Internals"; 2 of whom were newbies 8^O) > > I pondered about what could be done to raise the interest level of our > organization. Obviously the present format of discussing programming topics > and defaulting to the "Cookbook", isn't a huge draw. And I don't reckon we > can count on guest speakers of Damian's caliber to be showing up each > month. But what if the meetings could be more proactive; if we could come > to not only discuss programming, but actually do it. If we could work > together on building something useful and have it continue from month to > month. What if everyone could contribute according to their level, and > everyone could learn hands-on and by example. And finally, what if we could > take the results of our collaboration and return it to the Perl community. > > Here's my idea: > > I think we should have interested members of SPUG and ESPUG work together > to create a new module for the CPAN. We'd register the entire group as a > single CPAN author (handle = SPUG). (This automatically gives us an email > address of SPUG@cpan.org which could be used for the author address of the > module and forwarded to a spug-dev-list@pm.org) We can vote on a project, > work on its design, break the work into chunks, have people volunteer for > the various duties, code it, package it, upload it, and maintain it using > the mailing list. This would probably span several months. We'd likely need > a Development Coordinator, a PAUSE Uploader (someone with the password to > actually upload), and someone to host a source-code repository, at a > minimum. We can work out those details a SPUG meeting. > > This project should not only be highly educational, but hopefully would > give people a good reason to drag themselves out once a month. At the very > least, it would give us firsthand knowledge of how to create and contribute > a full-blown open source project to the CPAN. I don't think many people in > our group have much experience at this. When I took a poll at the > "Extending Perl" meeting, not one of the 20 or so fairly seasoned > programmers had ever contributed (including myself). But the real intent of > this would be to make (E)SPUG meetings a bit more attractive to all you > smart people (and to keep Tim and Ryan's efforts alive). > > I suggested the proposal to Tim (Maher) yesterday, and he seemed to take > the bait ;-) I went ahead and requested the PAUSE id. We should get > confirmation of the registration within a week. Tim agreed to devote the > August meeting to the initial discussion/planning/voting phase. We need to > come up a good module idea to work on. > > Whaddya think? > > Off to the Conference :-)!!! Brian > > PS Check out these sites for CPAN and PAUSE info: > > http://www.cpan.org/misc/cpan-faq.html > http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/modules/04pause.html > http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/modules/ #mailing list > archive where our request is pending > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From starfire at zipcon.net Sun Jul 16 09:51:48 2000 From: starfire at zipcon.net (Richard Anderson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: TPC Dinner Sunday night? References: <20000715130135.A12835@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: <039001bfef35$60bd7f40$7b0ff93f@adcom133> I'd be interested in meeting for dinner, I'm at the DoubleTree. I'm staying with some people from my company, they might want to come along. Richard.Anderson@raycosoft.com www.zipcon.net/~starfire/home (personal) www.raycosoft.com (corporate) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Maher/CONSULTIX" To: Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 1:01 PM Subject: SPUG: TPC Dinner Sunday night? > Any of you who are going to the Perl Conference, and arriving tomorrow, > want to meet for dinner/drinks? Can anybody name a rendezvous place > off the top of his/her head? Interested parties please get back to me > and I'll try to arrange something. Specify your Hotel, and its phone > number also. > > *========================================================================* > | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | > | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | > | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | > *========================================================================* > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Sun Jul 16 10:01:16 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org In-Reply-To: <3971CA7B.CC8B0DA7@zipcon.net>; from highroad@zipcon.net on Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:45:15AM -0700 References: <3971CA7B.CC8B0DA7@zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20000716080116.C15202@timji.consultix.wa.com> On Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 07:45:15AM -0700, highroad@zipcon.net wrote: > I know why I haven't been showing up. It was made clear that you would > not be welcome at the meetings unless you read the applicable "Cookbook" > chapter. And in another post someone said that the "Cookbook" wasn't > very good. I was reluctant to read a book of questionable merit just to > be able to go to the meetings. You have this wrong. For meetings in which Cookbook chapters were being discussed, only, people were encouraged to read the associated chapter. Such meetings accounted for only 5 of the last 27. So why didn't you attend the other 22? 8-} > > How about unlinking the "CookBook" from the meetings? Unnecessary, as indicated above. > > Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation). > > Bob B. *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From starfire at zipcon.net Sun Jul 16 10:37:39 2000 From: starfire at zipcon.net (Richard Anderson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org References: <3971CA7B.CC8B0DA7@zipcon.net> Message-ID: <03a901bfef3b$c815e410$7b0ff93f@adcom133> I never read any e-mail or heard any suggestion that anyone would be made "unwelcome" if they showed up at the meetings without reading the Cookbook. Tim did urge everyone to read the chapter; I think he was trying to help people get the most out of the meeting and if you were scared off from attending, I apologize. We don't give pop quizzes at the meetings, so I don't think anyone can tell who has read the chapter and who hasn't. I think Tim's e-mails often project the image that SPUG is "his group" and we have to play by "his rules", but in fact the group is open to all and anyone is welcome. It would be hard to find any technical book that SOMEONE doesn't have something negative to say about. I find the few minor flaws in the Cookbook don't prevent me from using it as one of my most heavily-used Perl books, second only to "Programming Perl". It also serves SPUG well in offering us a meeting topic when no one comes forward with a presentation. I think we should keep this as an option while striving to get prepared presentations from our members. Richard.Anderson@raycosoft.com www.zipcon.net/~starfire/home (personal) www.raycosoft.com (corporate) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:45 AM Subject: Re: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org > I know why I haven't been showing up. It was made clear that you would > not be welcome at the meetings unless you read the applicable "Cookbook" > chapter. And in another post someone said that the "Cookbook" wasn't > very good. I was reluctant to read a book of questionable merit just to > be able to go to the meetings. > > How about unlinking the "CookBook" from the meetings? > > Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation). > > Bob B. > > B.Ingerson@epixtech.com wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > My name is Brian Ingerson. I have been attending SPUG meetings regularly > > since August of last year. Some of you may know me from the talks I gave in > > May about "Extending Perl with C" and "Perl Internals" (at ESPUG). > > > > I was very impressed by the volume of technically savvy spugsters who > > turned out for the latest SPUG and ESPUG meetings featuring Dr Damian > > Conway. I was also a bit surprised. Where has everyone been all year? After > > the meetings I lamented to Colin and Ryan that the August attendance would > > probably drop back down to the usual 10-20. (I think I have the all-time > > record low of 6 attendees for "Perl Internals"; 2 of whom were newbies 8^O) > > > > I pondered about what could be done to raise the interest level of our > > organization. Obviously the present format of discussing programming topics > > and defaulting to the "Cookbook", isn't a huge draw. And I don't reckon we > > can count on guest speakers of Damian's caliber to be showing up each > > month. But what if the meetings could be more proactive; if we could come > > to not only discuss programming, but actually do it. If we could work > > together on building something useful and have it continue from month to > > month. What if everyone could contribute according to their level, and > > everyone could learn hands-on and by example. And finally, what if we could > > take the results of our collaboration and return it to the Perl community. > > > > Here's my idea: > > > > I think we should have interested members of SPUG and ESPUG work together > > to create a new module for the CPAN. We'd register the entire group as a > > single CPAN author (handle = SPUG). (This automatically gives us an email > > address of SPUG@cpan.org which could be used for the author address of the > > module and forwarded to a spug-dev-list@pm.org) We can vote on a project, > > work on its design, break the work into chunks, have people volunteer for > > the various duties, code it, package it, upload it, and maintain it using > > the mailing list. This would probably span several months. We'd likely need > > a Development Coordinator, a PAUSE Uploader (someone with the password to > > actually upload), and someone to host a source-code repository, at a > > minimum. We can work out those details a SPUG meeting. > > > > This project should not only be highly educational, but hopefully would > > give people a good reason to drag themselves out once a month. At the very > > least, it would give us firsthand knowledge of how to create and contribute > > a full-blown open source project to the CPAN. I don't think many people in > > our group have much experience at this. When I took a poll at the > > "Extending Perl" meeting, not one of the 20 or so fairly seasoned > > programmers had ever contributed (including myself). But the real intent of > > this would be to make (E)SPUG meetings a bit more attractive to all you > > smart people (and to keep Tim and Ryan's efforts alive). > > > > I suggested the proposal to Tim (Maher) yesterday, and he seemed to take > > the bait ;-) I went ahead and requested the PAUSE id. We should get > > confirmation of the registration within a week. Tim agreed to devote the > > August meeting to the initial discussion/planning/voting phase. We need to > > come up a good module idea to work on. > > > > Whaddya think? > > > > Off to the Conference :-)!!! Brian > > > > PS Check out these sites for CPAN and PAUSE info: > > > > http://www.cpan.org/misc/cpan-faq.html > > http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/modules/04pause.html > > http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/modules/ #mailing list > > archive where our request is pending > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andyj at microsoft.com Sun Jul 16 19:04:05 2000 From: andyj at microsoft.com (Andy Jacobs) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org Message-ID: > We need to come up a good module idea to work on. > Whaddya think? I like the idea. As a suggestion (intended to be one of many) I'd suggest a Perl editor or full IDE written in Perl (with Tk?). This might be about the right scope, would require learning aspects of Perl (for syntax highlighting, etc.), hopefully doesn't conflict with what anyone's company does, is a desired product, and would helpful to most members. And when it's done, as an Open Source project, it would allow any other Perl developer to customize it and/or extend it, etc., and learn from it. Of course it should be as cross-platform as possible (so we can all work on it and benefit from it). - Andy Jacobs -----Original Message----- From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of B.Ingerson@epixtech.com Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 11:14 PM To: spug-list@pm.org Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org Hi Everyone, My name is Brian Ingerson. I have been attending SPUG meetings regularly since August of last year. Some of you may know me from the talks I gave in May about "Extending Perl with C" and "Perl Internals" (at ESPUG). I was very impressed by the volume of technically savvy spugsters who turned out for the latest SPUG and ESPUG meetings featuring Dr Damian Conway. I was also a bit surprised. Where has everyone been all year? After the meetings I lamented to Colin and Ryan that the August attendance would probably drop back down to the usual 10-20. (I think I have the all-time record low of 6 attendees for "Perl Internals"; 2 of whom were newbies 8^O) I pondered about what could be done to raise the interest level of our organization. Obviously the present format of discussing programming topics and defaulting to the "Cookbook", isn't a huge draw. And I don't reckon we can count on guest speakers of Damian's caliber to be showing up each month. But what if the meetings could be more proactive; if we could come to not only discuss programming, but actually do it. If we could work together on building something useful and have it continue from month to month. What if everyone could contribute according to their level, and everyone could learn hands-on and by example. And finally, what if we could take the results of our collaboration and return it to the Perl community. Here's my idea: I think we should have interested members of SPUG and ESPUG work together to create a new module for the CPAN. We'd register the entire group as a single CPAN author (handle = SPUG). (This automatically gives us an email address of SPUG@cpan.org which could be used for the author address of the module and forwarded to a spug-dev-list@pm.org) We can vote on a project, work on its design, break the work into chunks, have people volunteer for the various duties, code it, package it, upload it, and maintain it using the mailing list. This would probably span several months. We'd likely need a Development Coordinator, a PAUSE Uploader (someone with the password to actually upload), and someone to host a source-code repository, at a minimum. We can work out those details a SPUG meeting. This project should not only be highly educational, but hopefully would give people a good reason to drag themselves out once a month. At the very least, it would give us firsthand knowledge of how to create and contribute a full-blown open source project to the CPAN. I don't think many people in our group have much experience at this. When I took a poll at the "Extending Perl" meeting, not one of the 20 or so fairly seasoned programmers had ever contributed (including myself). But the real intent of this would be to make (E)SPUG meetings a bit more attractive to all you smart people (and to keep Tim and Ryan's efforts alive). I suggested the proposal to Tim (Maher) yesterday, and he seemed to take the bait ;-) I went ahead and requested the PAUSE id. We should get confirmation of the registration within a week. Tim agreed to devote the August meeting to the initial discussion/planning/voting phase. We need to come up a good module idea to work on. Whaddya think? Off to the Conference :-)!!! Brian PS Check out these sites for CPAN and PAUSE info: http://www.cpan.org/misc/cpan-faq.html http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/modules/04pause.html http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/modules/ #mailing list archive where our request is pending - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andyj at microsoft.com Sun Jul 16 19:04:05 2000 From: andyj at microsoft.com (Andy Jacobs) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meeting ideas Message-ID: I'd be willing to teach/lead a meeting, but don't know how I could best contribute. I teach a 3-hour beginning Perl class (which I could do in two parts, or something), but suspect that most of this would be too basic for most members. I'm not a Guru, but probably land somewhere between Intermediate and Advanced. I'm not very good at Perl Golf, but can usually answer most specific Perl questions. Would people be interested in an E?SPUG meeting where members should just bring any questions they have - where I would attempt to answer it, and would accept additional corrections/answers/comments from the audience or a panel, etc. (I'm assuming there'll at least be a couple that I get wrong or can't answer)? Or, if most members think they're beyond this level, perhaps it could be a general discussion meeting, where people could ask for ideas for ways to solve various problems, which would be opened up to general discussion. Or, perhaps we could hold our own Perl Golf tournament, with as many random teams as those who can bring laptops to the meeting. Or some other team programming competition. I'm probably not unique in being able to lead any of these, but at least I'm volunteering... :-) - Andy Jacobs - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Mon Jul 17 01:36:49 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org is aliiiive... Message-ID: Well, It's official! SPUG is the first Perl user's group to be recognized as a CPAN author. We are register under the pseudonym "SPUG". You can do an author search for us at http://search.cpan.org (Now all we have to do is write some great modules.) As an aside, we get the email address SPUG@cpan.org. Currently I have this address forward its mail to spug-list@pm.org. In other words you can use this as an alias for posting to the list. Once the project(s) get rolling, we will probably need to spawn a new list just for development traffic. Cheers, Brian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 17 10:34:38 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org In-Reply-To: <03a901bfef3b$c815e410$7b0ff93f@adcom133>; from starfire@zipcon.net on Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 08:37:39AM -0700 References: <3971CA7B.CC8B0DA7@zipcon.net> <03a901bfef3b$c815e410$7b0ff93f@adcom133> Message-ID: <20000717083438.B18157@timji.consultix.wa.com> On Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 08:37:39AM -0700, Richard Anderson wrote: > I never read any e-mail or heard any suggestion that anyone would be made > "unwelcome" if they showed up at the meetings without reading the Cookbook. > Tim did urge everyone to read the chapter; I think he was trying to help > people get the most out of the meeting . . . I agree . . . > > I think Tim's e-mails often project the image that SPUG is "his group" and > we have to play by "his rules", but in fact the group is open to all and > anyone is welcome. What??? It's undeniably true that I started this group, and have done 99.9% of the work associated with it, but I've always tried to be clear that the group is "owned" by the members, not me. That's why I've bent over backwards to solicit input on policy decisions, such as meeting locations, the postings of job-ads, and most recently, possible affiliations with headhunters. The mailing list and meetings are $free and open to all, as is routinely stated in all associated communications (such as our Web page, and the Personal Technology "Datebook" ads in the Sunday newspaper. If I've inadvertently done something to convey the impression that "I think I own the group and that its meetings are not open to all"; I apologize, but the facts are otherwise. > ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From lorraine at nw.saic.com Mon Jul 17 11:36:33 2000 From: lorraine at nw.saic.com (Lorraine Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and Meeting ideas Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000717093632.008f30d0@zephyr.nw.saic.com> At 11:13 PM 7/15/00 -0700, B.Ingerson@epixtech.com wrote: > [...] >I think we should have interested members of SPUG and ESPUG work together >to create a new module for the CPAN. [...] >Whaddya think? At 05:04 PM 7/16/00 -0700, Andy Jacobs wrote: >I'd be willing to teach/lead a meeting, but don't know how I could best >contribute. I teach a 3-hour beginning Perl class [...] I think Brian has a great idea; I'd love to be involved. As a Perl newbie, the chance to work with (and learn from) others on Perl code is VERY appealing. (I'm not a programming newbie, though. Can anyone still say "FORTRAN" or "VMS"?) The books I have are fine, but (for example) working through the Gecko exercises, I would find that the answer in the back often used more advanced syntax than I had mastered just by reading the chapter. It's not that I can't figure out A way to do something, it's just that I know there must be a better or tighter way to do it, as well. If anyone (Andy?) wants to try to address this topic, that would be helpful to me. Finally, I'd like to add that I've been to two ESPUG meetings and Damian Conway's OO seminar. (With two Conway events, maybe this isn't terribly representative, but....) My impression has been of a very open and friendly group. I've had people I haven't actually MET start up conversations with me that made me feel like we were long lost friends catching up on old times. I certainly don't think I would be made to feel unwelcome for any reason - not for being ignorant of the evening's topic (the BEST reason to go) and not for being "unprepared" (sit in front and pick it up, is my motto). Thank you all. Cheers! Lorraine ................................... J. Lorraine Johnson SAIC/Sea Technology lorraine@nw.saic.com v: (425) 482-3316 f: (425) 485-5566 http://www.nw.saic.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Mon Jul 17 16:06:47 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Meeting Ideas Message-ID: <042201bff032$eb153590$28e842cf@iwebx1> First, let me quickly introduce myself.... John Cokos, iWeb Systems. We made our first SPUG meeting last week when Mr Conway was in town. We are a 3 year old Internet (commercial CGI) company that very recently relocated to Seattle/Lynnwood. Plan on having us at every meeting from this point forward. On to the topic at hand: Why not some meetings / topics on more practical perl? Seems to me, from looking at your past meeting notes, and from the general banter that a lot of heavy duty/guru type of things are being tossed around. Why not break down to more of a street level, hands dirty, getting the job done topic set? Watching the mini thread this week on the mapping of multiple lines into a hash was interesting, educational, and drives home the point elegantly that perl gives you a thousand ways to skin a cat. I think we could get a lot out of stringing up some kittys at the meetings, skinning them a bunch of different ways, and exploring multiple solutions to REAL WORLD issues. While the conway lectures were extrememly educational, how many of us will truly use these in day to day work? I'd guess quite few..... but tearing apart existing code/problems, and comming up, jointly, with slick/efficient workarounds will, I think, prove to be more useful to more of us, and in solving the issue(s) at hand, you'll not only see the answer to that problem, but probably ways to solve other related things as well. I'd hate to see SPUG go too "guru". It can be intimidating to beginner-intermediate perl users, and I suspect a good reason why attendance may not be where you want it to be. John ======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From MichaelB at trados.com Mon Jul 17 16:26:12 2000 From: MichaelB at trados.com (Michael Babbitt) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Intro classes and tutors Message-ID: <55E8B3C65BAED311B74500508B5C3A75117230@serv0402.us-wa.intranet.trados.com> I am a QA Manager at a company that runs a translator repository on the web:If someone needs a translation, he/she can search for the right translator on our site. I am interested in learning Perl for use in testing and have started studying it through some books. But I would love to take an into level class sometime to get a user's/intructor's take on Perl. I have taken the C, C++ courses at UW and have been around programming a lot. So I am familiar with most procedural and object oriented principles. Are there any intro classes coming up? And are there people out there who are willing to be hired as tutors? Thanks. Michael B. Babbitt TRADOS Seattle Office 506 2nd Avenue (Smith Tower, 30F) Seattle, WA 98104 Tel: (1) 206 262 8328 (direct) Tel: (1) 206 262 1440 Fax: (1) 206 262 0991 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From bxs at sdc.cs.boeing.com Tue Jul 18 10:43:24 2000 From: bxs at sdc.cs.boeing.com (Barry Sharp) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: Collaborative Idea Message-ID: <200007181543.IAA11258@calwah.sdc.cs.boeing.com> On Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 23:13:42 -0700, B. Ingerson wrote: > Here's my idea: > > I think we should have interested members of SPUG and ESPUG work together > to create a new module for the CPAN. We'd register the entire group as a > single CPAN author (handle = SPUG). (This automatically gives us an email > address of SPUG@cpan.org which could be used for the author address of the > module and forwarded to a spug-dev-list@pm.org) We can vote on a project, > work on its design, break the work into chunks, have people volunteer for > the various duties, code it, package it, upload it, and maintain it using > the mailing list. This would probably span several months. We'd likely need > a Development Coordinator, a PAUSE Uploader (someone with the password to > actually upload), and someone to host a source-code repository, at a > minimum. We can work out those details a SPUG meeting. Let me introduce myself briefly -- My name is Barry Sharp and I work for the Boeing Company in Bellevue. I support the High Performance Computing facility for the Engineering divisions company-wide. I've attended Tim's SHELL, AWK, and Perl programming classes during the past 6 years (EXCELLENT classes I might add). Perl has been a company-wide 'standard' at Boeing for a few years now and is used extensively in web, system administration, and other key areas within Boeing. I use SHELL and AWK primarily, and recently have started using Perl. My Perl programming work incidentally is totally unrelated to e-commerce/web. Brian Ingerson's idea, as stated above, caught my attention (I read every post to the spug-list and archive them) and started me thinking :-) My idea for a collaborative project -- and I have no clue as to whether this is original or not: Name: Multiple Paned Web Window Purpose: Collect multiple web windows (URLs) and present them in a single web window much like a having many frames on single micro fiche film. The idea is to avoid having to open separate 'large' windows for each URL. The technique could be used as a more visual example of historically visited URLs or simply a collection of related pieces of information pertinent to a persons web research. Description: Provide the means for presenting one or more URL panes in a single web window. If at all possible, each pane can either be added automatically or upon request. As more and more web windows are added, the current ones becomed scaled down in size with a subsequent loss of definition. Whenever the mouse pointer is positioned on a pane a brief description of the URL is presented in text form. Some form of magnification of a pane without actually opening the URL would be beneficial. Benefits: -Preserves screen real estate -Provides a more visual history of visited links worth remembering -Improves a persons productivity in that many pictorially presented URLs can be quickly reviewed in a single large window I'll stop at this point as 1) I want to keep the note short, and 2) I'm not sure if this will be considered an appropriate response to Brian's suggestion. Regards Barry Sharp The Boeing Company - Share Service Group Engineering Operating Systems P.O. Box 3707 MC 7J-04 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 USA Tel: 425-865-6411 (USA) Fax: 425-865-2221 (USA) Email: barry.sharp@boeing.com (stable) bxs@sdc.cs.boeing.com (direct) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From billa at willapabay.org Tue Jul 18 15:03:40 2000 From: billa at willapabay.org (Bill Alford) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org is aliiiive... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great! I recommend keeping the project list on the main mailing list as long as possible. If there are any perl development issues that crop up it will be good for everyone to see them and discuss. Watching how the software development of an open perl project progresses should be interesting too. Also, every once-in-a-while one of us lurkers will see something that may be covered by our experience and we'll be able to drop a note, even if we don't have time to help develop. Of course, after a certain point we'll probably need to split the development list from the main one. Especially if things seem to be off topic of perl discussions, though I'm guessing that most of the issues will be stuff that we'll all run across at some point. Bill On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 B.Ingerson@epixtech.com wrote: > Well, It's official! > > SPUG is the first Perl user's group to be recognized as a CPAN author. We > are register under the pseudonym "SPUG". You can do an author search for us > at http://search.cpan.org (Now all we have to do is write some great > modules.) > > As an aside, we get the email address SPUG@cpan.org. Currently I have this > address forward its mail to spug-list@pm.org. In other words you can use > this as an alias for posting to the list. > > Once the project(s) get rolling, we will probably need to spawn a new list > just for development traffic. > > Cheers, Brian > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Tue Jul 18 15:51:58 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Brian@TCP4.conf Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to express my excitement of all your collective excitement regarding the collective CPAN effort!!! I'm down at the conference, getting my brain worked on by Damian again (as you can prolly tell). I haven't replied to any of the great ideas that have been coming in, partly because I want to let them congeal (into the Master Jello Plan) a bit, and partly cause I'm using a really crappy mail client and don't want to have to force the results on you. I'll give a full update report on Friday. Until then, keep the ideas coming. I guess the most important need is the module(s) idea itself. It needs to wear a lot of suits to work out well. (Prolly even a Win32 suit, eeesh. ;-) Sent to you via SPUG@cpan.org, Brian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From davidpa at lucent.com Tue Jul 18 17:12:32 2000 From: davidpa at lucent.com (Patterson, David S (Pat)) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org is aliiiive... Message-ID: I think I speak for all (most all) ((a majority, no doubt)) (((well, at least some, for pete sake!))) ((((c'mon, there's got to be more than just me!!)))) of ESPUG when I say that we'd be interested in participating in this project, just so long as most of that participation can occur on the east side of Lake Washington. A few of the vanguard might be persuaded to journey across the great pond for occasional collaborative exercises, especially any kickoff festivities. By the way, just in case anyone was wondering, this month's regularly scheduled ESPUG meeting (4th Wednesday of each month) actually happened on July 6th! (Thanks again, Damian!!) Our August meeting will occur on the regulary scheduled 4th Wednesday of that month. Thanks, > --- "A morning without coffee is like something without something else..." > David Patterson > Software Engineer > AVAYA communication > 6464 185th Ave NE > Redmond, WA 98052-6736 > 425-558-8672 > 888-501-4835 Pgr > davidpa@lucent.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Alford [SMTP:billa@willapabay.org] > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 1:04 PM > To: B.Ingerson@epixtech.com > Cc: spug-list@pm.org > Subject: Re: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org is aliiiive... > > Great! > > I recommend keeping the project list on the main mailing list as long as > possible. If there are any perl development issues that crop up it will > be good for everyone to see them and discuss. Watching how the software > development of an open perl project progresses should be interesting too. > > Also, every once-in-a-while one of us lurkers will see something that may > be covered by our experience and we'll be able to drop a note, even if we > don't have time to help develop. > > Of course, after a certain point we'll probably need to split the > development list from the main one. Especially if things seem to be off > topic of perl discussions, though I'm guessing that most of the issues > will be stuff that we'll all run across at some point. > > Bill > > On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 B.Ingerson@epixtech.com wrote: > > > Well, It's official! > > > > SPUG is the first Perl user's group to be recognized as a CPAN author. > We > > are register under the pseudonym "SPUG". You can do an author search for > us > > at http://search.cpan.org (Now all we have to do is write some great > > modules.) > > > > As an aside, we get the email address SPUG@cpan.org. Currently I have > this > > address forward its mail to spug-list@pm.org. In other words you can use > > this as an alias for posting to the list. > > > > Once the project(s) get rolling, we will probably need to spawn a new > list > > just for development traffic. > > > > Cheers, Brian > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your > Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use > spug-list-digest > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From wwg at tscnet.com Wed Jul 19 11:28:03 2000 From: wwg at tscnet.com (wwg@tscnet.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200007191628.JAA01564@mail.tscnet.net> Hello, all -- I've been lurking for the better part of a year, although I did post one response to a Linux-related question a while back. My name's Bill Graham, and I am currently primarily a Java developer in my day job, but use Perl for many things, and have personal projects ongoing ... Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. In its current form, once you connect to the database, you are presented with a tree view of tables, which you can expand to view columns by clicking on the table. If you select columns from one or more tables, you can click a "Generate Query" button, and a SELECT statement is created in the query window for all table.columns you highlighted (you then have to specify the join and any other filter criteria - possible future enhancement is to examine foreign keys to try to determine the most likely join ...). The query can then be executed & results displayed, etc. If you have multiple sql statements in the query window, you can highlight any one of them and execute only that statement. Finally, I'm working on a routine to create a default data entry form based on specifying a table name (similar to the table wizard in Access, but simpler / not as slick). Currently, that piece can retrieve all the column names and construct a form with column name labels and text entry fields for each. The code to query/update/insert/delete/navigate in the form isn't there yet ... I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? Best Regards, Bill Graham 360 Powered Corp. www.360.com ========================================= This mail sent through Sinclair's WebMail http://mail.sinclair.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From davidpa at lucent.com Wed Jul 19 12:10:09 2000 From: davidpa at lucent.com (Patterson, David S (Pat)) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects Message-ID: If nothing else, it would make a great presentation at one (or both) of our meetings... (hint, hint, hint!) > --- "A morning without coffee is like something without something else..." > D. S. "Pat" Patterson > Software Engineer > AVAYA communication > 6464 185th Ave NE > Redmond, WA 98052-6736 > 425-558-8672 > 888-501-4835 Pgr > davidpa@lucent.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: wwg@tscnet.com [SMTP:wwg@tscnet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:28 AM > To: spug-list@pm.org > Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects > > Hello, all -- > > I've been lurking for the better part of a year, > although I did post one response to a Linux-related > question a while back. My name's Bill Graham, and I am > currently primarily a Java developer in my day job, but > use Perl for many things, and have personal projects > ongoing ... > > Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move > under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. > It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. > In its current form, once you connect to the database, > you are presented with a tree view of tables, which you > can expand to view columns by clicking on the table. If > you select columns from one or more tables, you can > click a "Generate Query" button, and a SELECT statement > is created in the query window for all table.columns you > highlighted (you then have to specify the join and any > other filter criteria - possible future enhancement is > to examine foreign keys to try to determine the most > likely join ...). The query can then be executed & > results displayed, etc. If you have multiple sql > statements in the query window, you can highlight any > one of them and execute only that statement. Finally, > I'm working on a routine to create a default data entry > form based on specifying a table name (similar to the > table wizard in Access, but simpler / not as slick). > Currently, that piece can retrieve all the column names > and construct a form with column name labels and text > entry fields for each. The code to > query/update/insert/delete/navigate in the form isn't > there yet ... > > I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I > haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months > due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? > > Best Regards, > Bill Graham > 360 Powered Corp. > www.360.com > > ========================================= > This mail sent through Sinclair's WebMail > http://mail.sinclair.net > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Wed Jul 19 12:16:35 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects References: <200007191628.JAA01564@mail.tscnet.net> Message-ID: <00eb01bff1a5$176e5db0$28e842cf@iwebx1> I've been working on a DBD Wrapper (calling it iSQL) to simplify DBD calls, and also to do some database mgmt using true schema definitions... Very interested in what you have so far, and the possiblity of integrating our schema usage/editor into Tk John ======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:28 AM Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects > Hello, all -- > > I've been lurking for the better part of a year, > although I did post one response to a Linux-related > question a while back. My name's Bill Graham, and I am > currently primarily a Java developer in my day job, but > use Perl for many things, and have personal projects > ongoing ... > > Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move > under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. > It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. > In its current form, once you connect to the database, > you are presented with a tree view of tables, which you > can expand to view columns by clicking on the table. If > you select columns from one or more tables, you can > click a "Generate Query" button, and a SELECT statement > is created in the query window for all table.columns you > highlighted (you then have to specify the join and any > other filter criteria - possible future enhancement is > to examine foreign keys to try to determine the most > likely join ...). The query can then be executed & > results displayed, etc. If you have multiple sql > statements in the query window, you can highlight any > one of them and execute only that statement. Finally, > I'm working on a routine to create a default data entry > form based on specifying a table name (similar to the > table wizard in Access, but simpler / not as slick). > Currently, that piece can retrieve all the column names > and construct a form with column name labels and text > entry fields for each. The code to > query/update/insert/delete/navigate in the form isn't > there yet ... > > I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I > haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months > due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? > > Best Regards, > Bill Graham > 360 Powered Corp. > www.360.com > > ========================================= > This mail sent through Sinclair's WebMail > http://mail.sinclair.net > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tuck at whistlingfish.net Wed Jul 19 12:35:03 2000 From: tuck at whistlingfish.net (Matt Tucker) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects In-Reply-To: <200007191628.JAA01564@mail.tscnet.net> Message-ID: <15330000.964028103@benzene> -- wwg@tscnet.com spake thusly: > Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move > under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. > It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. > I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I > haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months > due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? This is something I would definitely be interested in working on, whether or not the rest of SPUG is. - Matt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From chris at enthusiasm.com Wed Jul 19 13:44:54 2000 From: chris at enthusiasm.com (Christopher Cavnor) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects References: <15330000.964028103@benzene> Message-ID: <3975F726.117F8EFD@enthusiasm.com> I like the idea of the Perl IDE that was mentioned earlier. Would be great to have a kick-butt interface for coding Perl. Just to be diplomatic, I can see this idea (the Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI) integrating well with the IDE - sort of like the ColdFusion Studio interface. Would be sweet to have DB info at hand while developing Perl apps! Chris Matt Tucker wrote: > -- wwg@tscnet.com spake thusly: > > > Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move > > under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. > > It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. > > > I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I > > haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months > > due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? > > This is something I would definitely be interested in working on, > whether or not the rest of SPUG is. > > - Matt > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From aderhaa at n2h2.com Wed Jul 19 14:02:44 2000 From: aderhaa at n2h2.com (Alan E. Derhaag) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects In-Reply-To: Christopher Cavnor's message of "Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:44:54 -0700" References: <15330000.964028103@benzene> <3975F726.117F8EFD@enthusiasm.com> Message-ID: If you are not aware of it, there already exists such an interface under emacs in the implementation of the cperl-mode.el module. Also there is a gdu debugger interface built over gdb that allows a split screen display of input/output and context sensitive file listing. Still, this is a valid exercise and far more appetizing to those that don't want to learn emacs. Christopher Cavnor writes: > I like the idea of the Perl IDE that was mentioned earlier. Would be great to > have a kick-butt interface for coding Perl. Just to be diplomatic, I can see > this idea (the Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI) integrating > well with the IDE - sort of like the ColdFusion Studio interface. > > Would be sweet to have DB info at hand while developing Perl apps! > > Chris > > > Matt Tucker wrote: > > > -- wwg@tscnet.com spake thusly: > > > > > Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move > > > under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. > > > It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. > > > > > I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I > > > haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months > > > due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? > > > > This is something I would definitely be interested in working on, > > whether or not the rest of SPUG is. > > > > - Matt -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alan E. Derhaag N2H2, Creators of Bess and Searchopolis phone: 206-336-2972 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 email: aderhaa@n2h2.com,aderhaag@wolfenet.com Seattle, WA 98164 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From chris at enthusiasm.com Wed Jul 19 14:21:13 2000 From: chris at enthusiasm.com (Christopher Cavnor) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:27 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects References: <15330000.964028103@benzene> <3975F726.117F8EFD@enthusiasm.com> Message-ID: <3975FFA9.5A8A9C5F@enthusiasm.com> Vaguely aware of it in that foggy-eyed-eeeeuuuukkkk-EMACS sort of way (VIM kinda fellow meself), but it would be nice to have a stand-alone that is as portable as Perl (there is an NT port, but none that I know of for Macs). And, as you pointed out, it would be a great exercise. Chris "Alan E. Derhaag" wrote: > If you are not aware of it, there already exists such an interface > under emacs in the implementation of the cperl-mode.el module. Also > there is a gdu debugger interface built over gdb that allows a split > screen display of input/output and context sensitive file listing. > Still, this is a valid exercise and far more appetizing to those that > don't want to learn emacs. > > Christopher Cavnor writes: > > > I like the idea of the Perl IDE that was mentioned earlier. Would be great to > > have a kick-butt interface for coding Perl. Just to be diplomatic, I can see > > this idea (the Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI) integrating > > well with the IDE - sort of like the ColdFusion Studio interface. > > > > Would be sweet to have DB info at hand while developing Perl apps! > > > > Chris > > > > > > Matt Tucker wrote: > > > > > -- wwg@tscnet.com spake thusly: > > > > > > > Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move > > > > under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. > > > > It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. > > > > > > > I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I > > > > haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months > > > > due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? > > > > > > This is something I would definitely be interested in working on, > > > whether or not the rest of SPUG is. > > > > > > - Matt > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Alan E. Derhaag N2H2, Creators of Bess and Searchopolis > phone: 206-336-2972 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 > email: aderhaa@n2h2.com,aderhaag@wolfenet.com Seattle, WA 98164 > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From wwg at sinclair.net Wed Jul 19 15:17:54 2000 From: wwg at sinclair.net (Willaim Graham) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects In-Reply-To: <00eb01bff1a5$176e5db0$28e842cf@iwebx1> References: <200007191628.JAA01564@mail.tscnet.net> <00eb01bff1a5$176e5db0$28e842cf@iwebx1> Message-ID: <200007192017.NAA11438@mail.tscnet.net> Thanks for all the responses, folks. Since it does sound like there's interest, I'll dust off the code and start getting ready for collaboration. I have some screenshots I can put up on my website along with the code to download. I'll let you know when it's up (tonight or tomorrow night) ... Disclaimer: I started this very early in my perl life, so I know that people will probably laugh at some of my code, and/or have better ways to do things. I'm really looking forward to people taking a look and helping to refine/correct the code! Regards, Bill Graham 360 Powered Corp. www.360.com ========================================= This mail sent through Sinclair's WebMail http://mail.sinclair.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From cmeyer at helvella.org Wed Jul 19 22:51:51 2000 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects In-Reply-To: References: <15330000.964028103@benzene> <3975F726.117F8EFD@enthusiasm.com> Message-ID: <20000719205151.B3019@hobart.helvella.org> On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 12:02:44PM -0700, Alan E. Derhaag wrote: > If you are not aware of it, there already exists such an interface > under emacs in the implementation of the cperl-mode.el module. Also > there is a gdu debugger interface built over gdb that allows a split > screen display of input/output and context sensitive file listing. > Still, this is a valid exercise and far more appetizing to those that > don't want to learn emacs. You can always run emacs in vi mode. ;-) -C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andy at n2h2.com Wed Jul 19 22:37:00 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amen! :) (Just kidding, a part of me still loves emacs. It's just that I've been assimilated.) And check out Text::Autoformat (once Damian uploads it to CPAN). Awesome! I was sitting next to Larry Wall during the presentation. It had him in stitches. He's considering dropping format in favor of autoformat. On Jul 19, 2000 @ 12:02pm, Alan E. Derhaag wrote: > Still, this is a valid exercise and far more appetizing to those that > don't want to learn emacs. -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From goldov at sounddomain.com Thu Jul 20 13:15:57 2000 From: goldov at sounddomain.com (Kim Goldov) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation Message-ID: I've written a setuid script that runs as root and needs to look at the output of the ps command.... $ENV{PATH} = "/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X12R6/bin" ; $ENV{BASH_ENV} = "" ; $ENV{ENV} = "" ; open (PS, "/bin/ps -ef|") || die "ouch" ; my @ps = ; It is failing with the following warning: This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation. If I do /bin/ls instead of /bin/ps there is no warning. I could fork off a child and run the /bin/ps under the real uid, however I don't see why I should have to do this. I'm not even trying to use any tainted data. Why should /bin/ps be a problem and not /bin/ls? ________________________ Kim Goldov SoundDomain, Inc. 425-820-2244 x24 | fax: 425-820-5951 http://www.sounddomain.com goldov@sounddomain.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jmates at mbt.washington.edu Thu Jul 20 14:06:47 2000 From: jmates at mbt.washington.edu (Jeremy A. Mates) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Kim Goldov wrote: > I could fork off a child and run the /bin/ps under the real uid, however I > don't see why I should have to do this. I'm not even trying to use any > tainted data. Why should /bin/ps be a problem and not /bin/ls? I would check the permissions on /bin/ps, /bin, and /, and maybe how perl was compiled on the machine in question. Your script, modified to: #!/usr/local/bin/perl -T $ENV{PATH} = "/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X12R6/bin" ; $ENV{BASH_ENV} = "" ; $ENV{ENV} = "" ; open (PS, "/bin/ps -ef|") || die "ouch" ; my @ps = ; print $ps[0], "\n"; Ran fine in mode 4755 for both root/ordinary user on Digital Unix/perl 5.005 and Solaris/perl 5.6 for me. For easy tainting, I usually include something similar to the following in my scripts to ensure the cleansing gets done early: sub BEGIN { delete @ENV{ qw:IFS CDPATH ENV BASH_ENV: }; $ENV{'PATH'} = '/bin:/usr/bin'; } -- Jeremy Mates (206) 221-4714 Fax: 685-7301 Systems Administrator K353-B, Health Sciences Center http://www.mbt.washington.edu/ Box 357730 University of Washington Seattle, WA, 98195 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From scholarships at erols.com Thu Jul 20 15:09:54 2000 From: scholarships at erols.com (scholarships@erols.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Tuition-Free Computer and IT Training for Non-Profit Employees Message-ID: <615.624548.839579@yahoo.com> Tuition-Free Computer and IT Training for Non-Profit Employees Dear Non-Profit Employee, Most non-profit employees want to improve their computer skills. 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I find this to be a very worthy cause." --- Ken Horowitz, IT Training Coordinator. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From seppy at mail.tanzatech.com Thu Jul 20 15:25:15 2000 From: seppy at mail.tanzatech.com (Jafaar Nyang'oro) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: SPUG@cpan.org and projects Message-ID: <200007201625.AA219349152@mail.tanzatech.com> I'll be interested in something like this too. Please count me in, and let me know what is the next step. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Matt Tucker Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:35:03 -0700 >-- wwg@tscnet.com spake thusly: > >> Anyway, I have a project that I'd be willing to move >> under the SPUG@cpan auspices, if anyone's interested. >> It's a Perl/TK database browser/query tool using DBI. > >> I've used it with MySQL and Oracle8i, both on Linux. I >> haven't worked on it much in the last couple of months >> due to job time constraints. Anyone interested?? > >This is something I would definitely be interested in working on, >whether or not the rest of SPUG is. > >- Matt > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From bxs at sdc.cs.boeing.com Thu Jul 20 16:11:59 2000 From: bxs at sdc.cs.boeing.com (Barry Sharp) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation Message-ID: <200007202111.OAA27864@calwah.sdc.cs.boeing.com> Hi Kim, I ran following script on a Cray T916 running UNICOS 10.0.0.7 under normal user and root accounts with a script permission set to 4755 and had no problem :-)) Incidentally, I did see in our perl man pages the following statement "Setuid scripts have additional constraints that can produce error messages such as "Insecure dependency". See the perlsec manpage. . . . NOTES The Perl motto is "There's more than one way to do it." Divining how many more is left as an exercise to the reader." --------- #!/local/bin/perl -T $ENV{PATH} = "/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11" ; $ENV{BASH_ENV} = "" ; $ENV{ENV} = "" ; open (PS, "/bin/ps -ef|") || die "ouch" ; my @ps = ; print $ps[0], "\n"; print $ps[1], "\n"; print $ps[2], "\n"; ---------- A perl -V on the Cray T916 produced the following, if this helps any. (I've asterisked the S/N out) ---------- Summary of my perl5 (5.0 patchlevel 4 subversion 4) configuration: Platform: osname=unicos, osvers=10.0.0.2, archname=CRAY_TS-unicos uname='sn**** triton 10.0.0.2 tec.15 cray ts ' hint=recommended, useposix=true, d_sigaction=define bincompat3=y useperlio=undef d_sfio=undef Compiler: cc='cc', optimize='-O1', gccversion= cppflags='' ccflags ='' stdchar='unsigned char', d_stdstdio=define, usevfork=false voidflags=15, castflags=0, d_casti32=define, d_castneg=define intsize=8, alignbytes=8, usemymalloc=n, prototype=define Linker and Libraries: ld='ld', ldflags ='' libpth=/lib /usr/lib libs=-lnsl -lmalloc -lc -lcrypt libc=/lib/libc.a, so=none useshrplib=false, libperl=libperl.a Dynamic Linking: dlsrc=dl_none.xs, dlext=none, d_dlsymun=undef, ccdlflags='' cccdlflags='', lddlflags='' Characteristics of this binary (from libperl): Built under unicos Compiled at Sep 1 1998 10:32:50 @INC: /local/lib/perl5/CRAY_TS-unicos/5.00404 /local/lib/perl5 /local/lib/perl5/site_perl/CRAY_TS-unicos /local/lib/perl5/site_perl . ------------ Regards... Barry Sharp The Boeing Company - Share Service Group Engineering Operating Systems P.O. Box 3707 MC 7J-04 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 USA Tel: 425-865-6411 (USA) Fax: 425-865-2221 (USA) Email: barry.sharp@boeing.com (stable) > X-Authentication-Warning: happyfunball.pm.org: mjordomo set sender to owner-spug-list@pm.org using -f > From: "Kim Goldov" > To: "Seattle Perl Users Group" > Subject: SPUG: This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:15:57 -0700 > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 > > I've written a setuid script that runs as root and needs to look at the > output of the ps command.... > > $ENV{PATH} = "/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X12R6/bin" ; > $ENV{BASH_ENV} = "" ; > $ENV{ENV} = "" ; > > open (PS, "/bin/ps -ef|") || die "ouch" ; > my @ps = ; > > It is failing with the following warning: > > This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation. > > If I do /bin/ls instead of /bin/ps there is no warning. > > I could fork off a child and run the /bin/ps under the real uid, however I > don't see why I should have to do this. I'm not even trying to use any > tainted data. Why should /bin/ps be a problem and not /bin/ls? > > ________________________ > Kim Goldov > SoundDomain, Inc. > 425-820-2244 x24 | fax: 425-820-5951 > http://www.sounddomain.com > goldov@sounddomain.com > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From aderhaa at n2h2.com Thu Jul 20 16:25:57 2000 From: aderhaa at n2h2.com (Alan E. Derhaag) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation In-Reply-To: Barry Sharp's message of "Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:11:59 -0700 (PDT)" References: <200007202111.OAA27864@calwah.sdc.cs.boeing.com> Message-ID: Characteristically, I usually add the following when running under taint mode: delete @ENV{qw(IFS CDPATH ENV BASH_ENV)}; rather than the > $ENV{BASH_ENV} = "" ; > $ENV{ENV} = "" ; you included. My machine complains about IFS being unsecure! Barry Sharp writes: > Hi Kim, > > I ran following script on a Cray T916 running UNICOS 10.0.0.7 under > normal user and root accounts with a script permission set to 4755 > and had no problem :-)) > > Incidentally, I did see in our perl man pages the following > statement > > "Setuid scripts have additional constraints that can produce error > messages such as "Insecure dependency". See the perlsec manpage. > > . > . > . > > NOTES > The Perl motto is "There's more than one way to do it." Divining how > many more is left as an exercise to the reader." > > > --------- > #!/local/bin/perl -T > > $ENV{PATH} = "/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11" ; > $ENV{BASH_ENV} = "" ; > $ENV{ENV} = "" ; > > open (PS, "/bin/ps -ef|") || die "ouch" ; > my @ps = ; > > print $ps[0], "\n"; > print $ps[1], "\n"; > print $ps[2], "\n"; > ---------- > > A perl -V on the Cray T916 produced the following, if this helps any. > (I've asterisked the S/N out) > > ---------- > Summary of my perl5 (5.0 patchlevel 4 subversion 4) configuration: > Platform: > osname=unicos, osvers=10.0.0.2, archname=CRAY_TS-unicos > uname='sn**** triton 10.0.0.2 tec.15 cray ts ' > hint=recommended, useposix=true, d_sigaction=define > bincompat3=y useperlio=undef d_sfio=undef > Compiler: > cc='cc', optimize='-O1', gccversion= > cppflags='' > ccflags ='' > stdchar='unsigned char', d_stdstdio=define, usevfork=false > voidflags=15, castflags=0, d_casti32=define, d_castneg=define > intsize=8, alignbytes=8, usemymalloc=n, prototype=define > Linker and Libraries: > ld='ld', ldflags ='' > libpth=/lib /usr/lib > libs=-lnsl -lmalloc -lc -lcrypt > libc=/lib/libc.a, so=none > useshrplib=false, libperl=libperl.a > Dynamic Linking: > dlsrc=dl_none.xs, dlext=none, d_dlsymun=undef, ccdlflags='' > cccdlflags='', lddlflags='' > > > Characteristics of this binary (from libperl): > Built under unicos > Compiled at Sep 1 1998 10:32:50 > @INC: > /local/lib/perl5/CRAY_TS-unicos/5.00404 > /local/lib/perl5 > /local/lib/perl5/site_perl/CRAY_TS-unicos > /local/lib/perl5/site_perl > . > ------------ > > > Regards... > Barry Sharp > The Boeing Company - Share Service Group > Engineering Operating Systems > P.O. Box 3707 MC 7J-04 > Seattle, WA 98124-2207 > USA > > Tel: 425-865-6411 (USA) > Fax: 425-865-2221 (USA) > Email: barry.sharp@boeing.com (stable) > > > > X-Authentication-Warning: happyfunball.pm.org: mjordomo set sender to > owner-spug-list@pm.org using -f > > From: "Kim Goldov" > > To: "Seattle Perl Users Group" > > Subject: SPUG: This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation > > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:15:57 -0700 > > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 > > > > I've written a setuid script that runs as root and needs to look at the > > output of the ps command.... > > > > $ENV{PATH} = "/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X12R6/bin" ; > > $ENV{BASH_ENV} = "" ; > > $ENV{ENV} = "" ; > > > > open (PS, "/bin/ps -ef|") || die "ouch" ; > > my @ps = ; > > > > It is failing with the following warning: > > > > This /bin/ps is not secure for setuid operation. > > > > If I do /bin/ls instead of /bin/ps there is no warning. > > > > I could fork off a child and run the /bin/ps under the real uid, however I > > don't see why I should have to do this. I'm not even trying to use any > > tainted data. Why should /bin/ps be a problem and not /bin/ls? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alan E. Derhaag N2H2, Creators of Bess and Searchopolis phone: 206-336-2972 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 email: aderhaa@n2h2.com,aderhaag@wolfenet.com Seattle, WA 98164 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jul 19 19:33:12 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl 6.0 Dev. Begins in Earnest - Larry Wall announcement Message-ID: <20000719173312.C26266@timji.consultix.wa.com> ----- Forwarded message from brian d foy ----- LARRY WALL ANNOUNCES BROAD VISION FOR PERL 6 In his keynote address to the O'Reilly Second Open Source Convention, Larry Wall laid out his vision for the future development of Perl 6. Larry reports that "Perl 6 development has began in earnest". The next version of Perl is a chance for the language developers to both rewrite the internals and externals of Perl based on their experience from developing Perl 5, and Chip Salzenbergs work with Topaz. Larry promises that Perl 6 will be "better, stronger, faster" and that there will be a clear, clean migration path from Perl 5 to Perl 6. A preview release of should be available by next summer. Perl 6 will use a development model that draws from the lessons learned from perl5-porters and other large open source projects such as the Apache web server and the Linux operating system. Development topics will be assigned to working groups which will work under a central project manager. Nat Torkington is the interim project manager. Details will be made available in the Perl 6 section of www.perl.org. The current major release of Perl will continue to be supported. The maintenance track will be led by Jarkko Hietaniemi. Current development tracks, such as Unicode support, will be finished in Perl 5. Interested developers can subscribe to the Perl 6 development mailing list by sending a message to bootstrap-subscribe@perl.org. ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andy at n2h2.com Fri Jul 21 05:19:07 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org project idea, collab.net Message-ID: Me and a couple other /E?SPUG/ folks went to the Perl Mongers BOF session. It was mostly folks looking to figure out how to run a successful Perl group. Wayne was there (new HFB maintainer), brian d foy was not. I ended up talking quite a bit about how we run our group. A lot of folks were very impressed with the size and technical expertise of /E?SPUG/ and how we operate (and our guest list). Apparently, many other Monger groups just gather for drinks and never really discuss much Perl. So, it would seem we have one (uh, two?) kick-ass users group. Nicely done, folks. Anyway, I digress (that's what happens when you listen to Damian Conway talk for eight hours straight). Someone at that meeting suggested we check out collab.net for project ideas. Apparently, there's an unsponsored project section. Alas, I do not recall who it was that gave us the idea. Um, most likely it was Leon from London.pm, maybe. Anyhoo. But I suspect our group will be brimming with several more brilliant ideas on its own shortly. There's also a *very* cool project available to us on the horizon (as in someday). But this isn't the time to go into that (besides, I think it should be Tim or Brian that spill the beans). -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From wwg at tscnet.com Fri Jul 21 09:43:55 2000 From: wwg at tscnet.com (wwg@tscnet.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG@cpan.org ... TK / DBI project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200007211443.HAA30813@mail.tscnet.net> For those who are interested in the Perl/TK DBI project I said I would get up & available on my site by last night, my apologies. Some things came up, and it will be the weekend before I can get this on my server. Sorry for the delay: it *will* be available by Sunday night, and I'll post the url. Thanks for your patience! Regards, Bill Graham Software Engineer 360 Powered Corp. www.360.com ========================================= This mail sent through Sinclair's WebMail http://mail.sinclair.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From asherr at cs.unm.edu Fri Jul 21 12:33:50 2000 From: asherr at cs.unm.edu (Aryeh "Cody" Sherr) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl In-Reply-To: <20000719173312.C26266@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl cgis to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it in a production environment. I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy traffic site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? Thanks in advance. Cody asherr@cs.unm.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From algard at sounddomain.com Fri Jul 21 14:12:20 2000 From: algard at sounddomain.com (Alex Algard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone Overwhelmingly positive. We've set up mod_perl on two of our servers so far, and in our benchmarking, we have noticed a performance increase of almost 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. We are using Apache::Registry; if you use mod_perl handlers for the request stage, you can squeeze out marginally better performance. Apache::Registry is probably the best way to get started. Existing cgi code should run fine under mod_perl, except for sloppily coded scripts. Just another few random notes, based on our experience... Set up a separate development server with just a single process - this will make debugging a lot easier whenever you come across the inevitable data persistence issues. Also don't forget to disable keepalive (if you have separate mod_perl and image servers), or each client will lock up an Apache process throughout the keepalive instead of releasing it after a few milliseconds (also, as we experienced, it's difficult to debug a single-process Apache in a multi-user environment if keepalive is on). Memory tends to be the bottleneck to monitor with mod_perl. Until Apache 2.0 comes out, to avoid running out of memory if you have a well-trafficked site, you should place static content/cgi scripts and mod_perl on separate servers, and be sure to take advantage of memory sharing for as many modules as possible. If you notice that many requests are taking more than a few milliseconds (after disabling keepalive), you probably have modem users tying up the Apache processes. In that case, look into using a proxy server such as Apache's mod_proxy (we're planning to use it...); stay away from Squid. Most importantly, make good use of perl.apache.org -- there's a ton of good info there. ________________________ Alex Algard SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 algard@sounddomain.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > Aryeh "Cody" Sherr > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:34 AM > To: spug-list@pm.org > Subject: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl cgis > to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And > yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it in > a production environment. > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone > who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy traffic > site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, > Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? > > Thanks in advance. > > Cody > asherr@cs.unm.edu > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jshaffer at chronology.com Fri Jul 21 14:43:02 2000 From: jshaffer at chronology.com (Jamie Shaffer) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl embedded in threaded app Message-ID: <3978A7C6.C2F632C6@chronology.com> Is anyone else using an embedded Perl interpreter in a threaded application? We have such a set-up with embedded perl; this Perl is NOT threaded, although the application that calls it is threaded. Everything seemed fine and any embedded Perl was happily parsed and executed...until the fatal moment when someone put a system("data"); line in the embedded Perl. Perl does parse and execute this, but it appears to destroy the threads in the main app in the process. The same is true for exec or 'backtick' calls. We considered compiling Perl using threads, but are not sure that this is the problem. In addition, there are big NOT FOR PRODUCTION disclaimers all over the thread readme and hints. We decided to try a non-threaded version of our app. After a few days of rearranging, we have created such a beast and indeed all is happy again... except that we lose some future options since we don't have a threaded app. Anyone have suggestions or insights into what the story is with Perl in threaded apps is invited to send mail my way! Thanks Jamie Shaffer - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Fri Jul 21 15:16:32 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl References: Message-ID: <029401bff350$8fa08c20$28e842cf@iwebx1> >> we have noticed a performance increase of almost > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. That's nothing ... move it to fastCGI, and it'll really smoke, on average twice as fast as mod_perl, and no security holes. John ======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Algard" To: Cc: "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:12 PM Subject: RE: SPUG: mod_perl > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone > > Overwhelmingly positive. We've set up mod_perl on two of our servers so far, > and in our benchmarking, we have noticed a performance increase of almost > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. We are using Apache::Registry; if you > use mod_perl handlers for the request stage, you can squeeze out marginally > better performance. Apache::Registry is probably the best way to get > started. Existing cgi code should run fine under mod_perl, except for > sloppily coded scripts. > > Just another few random notes, based on our experience... > > Set up a separate development server with just a single process - this will > make debugging a lot easier whenever you come across the inevitable data > persistence issues. Also don't forget to disable keepalive (if you have > separate mod_perl and image servers), or each client will lock up an Apache > process throughout the keepalive instead of releasing it after a few > milliseconds (also, as we experienced, it's difficult to debug a > single-process Apache in a multi-user environment if keepalive is on). > > Memory tends to be the bottleneck to monitor with mod_perl. Until Apache 2.0 > comes out, to avoid running out of memory if you have a well-trafficked > site, you should place static content/cgi scripts and mod_perl on separate > servers, and be sure to take advantage of memory sharing for as many modules > as possible. If you notice that many requests are taking more than a few > milliseconds (after disabling keepalive), you probably have modem users > tying up the Apache processes. In that case, look into using a proxy server > such as Apache's mod_proxy (we're planning to use it...); stay away from > Squid. Most importantly, make good use of perl.apache.org -- there's a ton > of good info there. > > ________________________ > Alex Algard > SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com > 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 > algard@sounddomain.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > > Aryeh "Cody" Sherr > > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:34 AM > > To: spug-list@pm.org > > Subject: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > > > > > We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl cgis > > to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And > > yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it in > > a production environment. > > > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone > > who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy traffic > > site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, > > Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Cody > > asherr@cs.unm.edu > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tnight at ironworx.com Fri Jul 21 15:33:34 2000 From: tnight at ironworx.com (Terry Nightingale) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl In-Reply-To: <029401bff350$8fa08c20$28e842cf@iwebx1> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, John Cokos wrote: > >> we have noticed a performance increase of almost > > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. > > That's nothing ... move it to fastCGI, and it'll really smoke, > on average twice as fast as mod_perl, and no security holes. I was wondering whether anyone would mention FastCGI. I recently developed a moderately large app for a client, and we decided on FastCGI over mod_perl for the architectural benefits (one web server + n app servers, etc). I was not aware of any performance data comparing the two technologies. Are you, or are your results anecdotal? Thanks... -- Terry Nightingale Principal Consultant, IronWorx LLC +1-425-649-9304(v) / +1-425-643-7112(f) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From asherr at cs.unm.edu Fri Jul 21 15:35:45 2000 From: asherr at cs.unm.edu (Aryeh "Cody" Sherr) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl In-Reply-To: <029401bff350$8fa08c20$28e842cf@iwebx1> Message-ID: One reason I was leaning away from FastCGI is that it still works on a seperate process model, and cannot take advantage of in the http server database connection pooling the way you can with the Apache::DBI module in mod_perl. Cody asherr@cs.unm.edu On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, John Cokos wrote: >>> we have noticed a performance increase of almost >> 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. > >That's nothing ... move it to fastCGI, and it'll really smoke, >on average twice as fast as mod_perl, and no security holes. > >John > >======================================== > John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. > http://www.iwebsys.com > jcokos@ccs.net >======================================== > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alex Algard" >To: >Cc: "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" >Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:12 PM >Subject: RE: SPUG: mod_perl > > >> > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their >> > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone >> >> Overwhelmingly positive. We've set up mod_perl on two of our servers so far, >> and in our benchmarking, we have noticed a performance increase of almost >> 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. We are using Apache::Registry; if you >> use mod_perl handlers for the request stage, you can squeeze out marginally >> better performance. Apache::Registry is probably the best way to get >> started. Existing cgi code should run fine under mod_perl, except for >> sloppily coded scripts. >> >> Just another few random notes, based on our experience... >> >> Set up a separate development server with just a single process - this will >> make debugging a lot easier whenever you come across the inevitable data >> persistence issues. Also don't forget to disable keepalive (if you have >> separate mod_perl and image servers), or each client will lock up an Apache >> process throughout the keepalive instead of releasing it after a few >> milliseconds (also, as we experienced, it's difficult to debug a >> single-process Apache in a multi-user environment if keepalive is on). >> >> Memory tends to be the bottleneck to monitor with mod_perl. Until Apache 2.0 >> comes out, to avoid running out of memory if you have a well-trafficked >> site, you should place static content/cgi scripts and mod_perl on separate >> servers, and be sure to take advantage of memory sharing for as many modules >> as possible. If you notice that many requests are taking more than a few >> milliseconds (after disabling keepalive), you probably have modem users >> tying up the Apache processes. In that case, look into using a proxy server >> such as Apache's mod_proxy (we're planning to use it...); stay away from >> Squid. Most importantly, make good use of perl.apache.org -- there's a ton >> of good info there. >> >> ________________________ >> Alex Algard >> SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com >> 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 >> algard@sounddomain.com >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of >> > Aryeh "Cody" Sherr >> > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:34 AM >> > To: spug-list@pm.org >> > Subject: SPUG: mod_perl >> > >> > >> > >> > We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl cgis >> > to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And >> > yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it in >> > a production environment. >> > >> > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their >> > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone >> > who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy traffic >> > site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, >> > Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? >> > >> > Thanks in advance. >> > >> > Cody >> > asherr@cs.unm.edu >> > >> > >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org >> > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL >> > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address >> > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest >> > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ >> > >> >> >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org >> Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL >> Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address >> For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest >> Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ >> >> >> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Fri Jul 21 15:40:39 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl References: Message-ID: <02bb01bff353$ee13bf90$28e842cf@iwebx1> http://www.thenet1.com/ They're using our software, with fastCGI, doing 8.5+million searches per day! Fast, stable (havent' rebooted that machine in over a month) and kick ass. ======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Nightingale" To: "John Cokos" Cc: "Alex Algard" ; ; "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:33 PM Subject: Re: SPUG: mod_perl > On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, John Cokos wrote: > > > >> we have noticed a performance increase of almost > > > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. > > > > That's nothing ... move it to fastCGI, and it'll really smoke, > > on average twice as fast as mod_perl, and no security holes. > > I was wondering whether anyone would mention FastCGI. I recently developed a > moderately large app for a client, and we decided on FastCGI over > mod_perl for the architectural benefits (one web server + n app servers, etc). I > was not aware of any performance data comparing the two technologies. Are you, > or are your results anecdotal? > > Thanks... > > > -- > Terry Nightingale > Principal Consultant, IronWorx LLC > +1-425-649-9304(v) / +1-425-643-7112(f) > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Fri Jul 21 15:43:38 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl References: Message-ID: <02c101bff354$58c919c0$28e842cf@iwebx1> Cody, > One reason I was leaning away from FastCGI is that it still works on a > seperate process model, That's exactly the reason fastCGI is the better solution. A busted program (or a bad programmer) can't take down your webserver (and all of your client's domains). It's a much safer, more protected environment. > and cannot take advantage of in the http server > database connection pooling the way you can with the Apache::DBI module in > mod_perl. Sure it can, if your code is tight. The way we set it up is to open and close the db connections outside of the fastCGI loop. Each fastCGI process pools it's memory with a common shared compiled base in memory, all sharing the same connection. John ======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" To: "John Cokos" Cc: "Alex Algard" ; Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:35 PM Subject: Re: SPUG: mod_perl > > One reason I was leaning away from FastCGI is that it still works on a > seperate process model, and cannot take advantage of in the http server > database connection pooling the way you can with the Apache::DBI module in > mod_perl. > > Cody > asherr@cs.unm.edu > > On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, John Cokos wrote: > > >>> we have noticed a performance increase of almost > >> 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. > > > >That's nothing ... move it to fastCGI, and it'll really smoke, > >on average twice as fast as mod_perl, and no security holes. > > > >John > > > >======================================== > > John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. > > http://www.iwebsys.com > > jcokos@ccs.net > >======================================== > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Alex Algard" > >To: > >Cc: "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" > >Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:12 PM > >Subject: RE: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > > >> > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > >> > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone > >> > >> Overwhelmingly positive. We've set up mod_perl on two of our servers so far, > >> and in our benchmarking, we have noticed a performance increase of almost > >> 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. We are using Apache::Registry; if you > >> use mod_perl handlers for the request stage, you can squeeze out marginally > >> better performance. Apache::Registry is probably the best way to get > >> started. Existing cgi code should run fine under mod_perl, except for > >> sloppily coded scripts. > >> > >> Just another few random notes, based on our experience... > >> > >> Set up a separate development server with just a single process - this will > >> make debugging a lot easier whenever you come across the inevitable data > >> persistence issues. Also don't forget to disable keepalive (if you have > >> separate mod_perl and image servers), or each client will lock up an Apache > >> process throughout the keepalive instead of releasing it after a few > >> milliseconds (also, as we experienced, it's difficult to debug a > >> single-process Apache in a multi-user environment if keepalive is on). > >> > >> Memory tends to be the bottleneck to monitor with mod_perl. Until Apache 2.0 > >> comes out, to avoid running out of memory if you have a well-trafficked > >> site, you should place static content/cgi scripts and mod_perl on separate > >> servers, and be sure to take advantage of memory sharing for as many modules > >> as possible. If you notice that many requests are taking more than a few > >> milliseconds (after disabling keepalive), you probably have modem users > >> tying up the Apache processes. In that case, look into using a proxy server > >> such as Apache's mod_proxy (we're planning to use it...); stay away from > >> Squid. Most importantly, make good use of perl.apache.org -- there's a ton > >> of good info there. > >> > >> ________________________ > >> Alex Algard > >> SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com > >> 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 > >> algard@sounddomain.com > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > >> > Aryeh "Cody" Sherr > >> > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:34 AM > >> > To: spug-list@pm.org > >> > Subject: SPUG: mod_perl > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl cgis > >> > to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And > >> > yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it in > >> > a production environment. > >> > > >> > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > >> > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone > >> > who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy traffic > >> > site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, > >> > Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? > >> > > >> > Thanks in advance. > >> > > >> > Cody > >> > asherr@cs.unm.edu > >> > > >> > > >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >> > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > >> > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > >> > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > >> > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > >> > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > >> > > >> > >> > >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >> POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > >> Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > >> Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > >> For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > >> Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From algard at sounddomain.com Fri Jul 21 17:04:57 2000 From: algard at sounddomain.com (Alex Algard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl In-Reply-To: <029401bff350$8fa08c20$28e842cf@iwebx1> Message-ID: I'm curious to hear more about the security holes... that's news to me. Also just be aware of the pros and cons of mod_perl and FastCGI - they are entirely different beasts, and they are both useful. The usual argument in favor of FastCGI is that it's restricted neither to Perl nor to Apache. Also, FastCGI processes are not as integrated with httpd as mod_perl, which is supposed to be more stable. We chose mod_perl, b/c we're staying with Apache and Perl. If you use mod_perl, unlike FastCGI you don't need to rewrite your code with Apache::Registry, you don't need to restart every time a script is modified, you don't need to rebuild Perl with sfio to make it work, and the number of processes handling requests is dynamically determined rather than static. Also, the beauty of mod_perl is in its integration with Apache; it's much more than just a persistent Perl interpreter. You can customize every stage of request/response for Apache. Of course, there's also a ton of talented ppl working on improving mod_perl and creating modules for it. ________________________ Alex Algard SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 algard@sounddomain.com > -----Original Message----- > From: John Cokos [mailto:jcokos@ccs.net] > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:17 PM > To: Alex Algard; spug-list@pm.org > Cc: Aryeh "Cody" Sherr > Subject: Re: SPUG: mod_perl > > > >> we have noticed a performance increase of almost > > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. > > That's nothing ... move it to fastCGI, and it'll really smoke, > on average twice as fast as mod_perl, and no security holes. > > John > > ======================================== > John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. > http://www.iwebsys.com > jcokos@ccs.net > ======================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alex Algard" > To: > Cc: "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:12 PM > Subject: RE: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, > and what their > > > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in > hearing from anyone > > > > Overwhelmingly positive. We've set up mod_perl on two of our > servers so far, > > and in our benchmarking, we have noticed a performance increase > of almost > > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. We are using > Apache::Registry; if you > > use mod_perl handlers for the request stage, you can squeeze > out marginally > > better performance. Apache::Registry is probably the best way to get > > started. Existing cgi code should run fine under mod_perl, except for > > sloppily coded scripts. > > > > Just another few random notes, based on our experience... > > > > Set up a separate development server with just a single process > - this will > > make debugging a lot easier whenever you come across the inevitable data > > persistence issues. Also don't forget to disable keepalive (if you have > > separate mod_perl and image servers), or each client will lock > up an Apache > > process throughout the keepalive instead of releasing it after a few > > milliseconds (also, as we experienced, it's difficult to debug a > > single-process Apache in a multi-user environment if keepalive is on). > > > > Memory tends to be the bottleneck to monitor with mod_perl. > Until Apache 2.0 > > comes out, to avoid running out of memory if you have a well-trafficked > > site, you should place static content/cgi scripts and mod_perl > on separate > > servers, and be sure to take advantage of memory sharing for as > many modules > > as possible. If you notice that many requests are taking more than a few > > milliseconds (after disabling keepalive), you probably have modem users > > tying up the Apache processes. In that case, look into using a > proxy server > > such as Apache's mod_proxy (we're planning to use it...); stay away from > > Squid. Most importantly, make good use of perl.apache.org -- > there's a ton > > of good info there. > > > > ________________________ > > Alex Algard > > SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com > > 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 > > algard@sounddomain.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > > Aryeh "Cody" Sherr > > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:34 AM > > To: spug-list@pm.org > > Subject: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > > > > > We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl cgis > > to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And > > yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it in > > a production environment. > > > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone > > who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy traffic > > site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, > > Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Cody > > asherr@cs.unm.edu > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Fri Jul 21 17:26:19 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl References: Message-ID: <030901bff362$b12d3de0$28e842cf@iwebx1> The very fact that mod_perl allows you (depending on which Apache:: modules you have installed) to get right into the guts of apache is a security hole. Assuming, of course, your personal coding skills and eye for safety and detail are top notch, you have no control over what the bozo behind you (or next to you), or the next sysadmin does to your code or to apache itself. FastCGI, operates on it's own little island, protected from the server, and protecting the server as a side benifet. As it serves only one purpose (to be fast), unlike mod_perl which is fast AND allows for "guts" programming of apache, fastCGI is inherently quicker, more stable, and IMO, the only real choice if pure performance is your goal. As an aside: Turbo Linux Server (smallest, fastest kernel going), running Zeus instead of apache (Zeus is $$, but built totally for speed), and fastCGI.... I'd put that combo up against almost any server combo, pound for pound, a true dynamo. John ======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Algard" To: "John Cokos" Cc: "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" ; Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 3:04 PM Subject: RE: SPUG: mod_perl > I'm curious to hear more about the security holes... that's news to me. Also > just be aware of the pros and cons of mod_perl and FastCGI - they are > entirely different beasts, and they are both useful. > > The usual argument in favor of FastCGI is that it's restricted neither to > Perl nor to Apache. Also, FastCGI processes are not as integrated with httpd > as mod_perl, which is supposed to be more stable. > > We chose mod_perl, b/c we're staying with Apache and Perl. If you use > mod_perl, unlike FastCGI you don't need to rewrite your code with > Apache::Registry, you don't need to restart every time a script is modified, > you don't need to rebuild Perl with sfio to make it work, and the number of > processes handling requests is dynamically determined rather than static. > Also, the beauty of mod_perl is in its integration with Apache; it's much > more than just a persistent Perl interpreter. You can customize every stage > of request/response for Apache. Of course, there's also a ton of talented > ppl working on improving mod_perl and creating modules for it. > > ________________________ > Alex Algard > SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com > 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 > algard@sounddomain.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Cokos [mailto:jcokos@ccs.net] > > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:17 PM > > To: Alex Algard; spug-list@pm.org > > Cc: Aryeh "Cody" Sherr > > Subject: Re: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > > > >> we have noticed a performance increase of almost > > > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. > > > > That's nothing ... move it to fastCGI, and it'll really smoke, > > on average twice as fast as mod_perl, and no security holes. > > > > John > > > > ======================================== > > John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. > > http://www.iwebsys.com > > jcokos@ccs.net > > ======================================== > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alex Algard" > > To: > > Cc: "Aryeh "Cody" Sherr" > > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:12 PM > > Subject: RE: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > > > > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, > > and what their > > > > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in > > hearing from anyone > > > > > > Overwhelmingly positive. We've set up mod_perl on two of our > > servers so far, > > > and in our benchmarking, we have noticed a performance increase > > of almost > > > 100x in going from cgi to mod_perl. We are using > > Apache::Registry; if you > > > use mod_perl handlers for the request stage, you can squeeze > > out marginally > > > better performance. Apache::Registry is probably the best way to get > > > started. Existing cgi code should run fine under mod_perl, except for > > > sloppily coded scripts. > > > > > > Just another few random notes, based on our experience... > > > > > > Set up a separate development server with just a single process > > - this will > > > make debugging a lot easier whenever you come across the inevitable data > > > persistence issues. Also don't forget to disable keepalive (if you have > > > separate mod_perl and image servers), or each client will lock > > up an Apache > > > process throughout the keepalive instead of releasing it after a few > > > milliseconds (also, as we experienced, it's difficult to debug a > > > single-process Apache in a multi-user environment if keepalive is on). > > > > > > Memory tends to be the bottleneck to monitor with mod_perl. > > Until Apache 2.0 > > > comes out, to avoid running out of memory if you have a well-trafficked > > > site, you should place static content/cgi scripts and mod_perl > > on separate > > > servers, and be sure to take advantage of memory sharing for as > > many modules > > > as possible. If you notice that many requests are taking more than a few > > > milliseconds (after disabling keepalive), you probably have modem users > > > tying up the Apache processes. In that case, look into using a > > proxy server > > > such as Apache's mod_proxy (we're planning to use it...); stay away from > > > Squid. Most importantly, make good use of perl.apache.org -- > > there's a ton > > > of good info there. > > > > > > ________________________ > > > Alex Algard > > > SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com > > > 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 > > > algard@sounddomain.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-spug-list@pm.org > [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of > > > Aryeh "Cody" Sherr > > > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:34 AM > > > To: spug-list@pm.org > > > Subject: SPUG: mod_perl > > > > > > > > > > > > We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl > cgis > > > to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And > > > yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it > in > > > a production environment. > > > > > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what > their > > > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from > anyone > > > who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy > traffic > > > site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, > > > Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Cody > > > asherr@cs.unm.edu > > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your > Email-address > > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use > spug-list-digest > > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From chris at smalldognet.com Fri Jul 21 17:52:41 2000 From: chris at smalldognet.com (Chris Sutton) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl References: Message-ID: <3978D439.98AAB3D5@smalldognet.com> I have been using mod_perl in all my production environments for about 2 years now and I would never go back to traditional CGI's. I write everything in "full blown" mod_perl code. I tried the Apache::Registry thing when I first started but decided now would be a good time to rewrite all my cruffty cgi's together in one overall unit. It's way faster, and with access to the Apache API's you can do all sorts of things like custom security models, logging, etc, etc, etc. I'm not troubled by the buy in on mod_perl because it seems like Apache is not going away, and neither is perl. Doesn't Slashdot use mod_perl. Seems like if it works there it should be tough enough to work about anywhere. Aryeh \"Cody\" Sherr wrote: > > We have been casting around at work trying to find ways for our perl cgis > to run faster. My attention has repeatedly turned to mod_perl. And > yet, I have not been able to find anyone to speak with who is using it in > a production environment. > > I'd like to hear from anyone who is using it in spug land, and what their > experiences were like. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone > who has refactored existing .cgis to run under mod_perl in a heavy traffic > site. Also, there are various levels of mod_perl buy-in: PerlRun, > Apache::Registry, and fullblown mod_perl code. Any comments on those? > > Thanks in advance. > > Cody > asherr@cs.unm.edu > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From algard at sounddomain.com Fri Jul 21 18:48:30 2000 From: algard at sounddomain.com (Alex Algard) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: mod_perl In-Reply-To: <030901bff362$b12d3de0$28e842cf@iwebx1> Message-ID: > you have no control over what the bozo > behind you (or next to you), or the next sysadmin does to your code We don't have any here! ;-) Nonetheless, it doesn't sound like FastCGI would necessarily solve this issue either. For some general stats on performance of different OS's/web servers/applications, you should check out http://www.chamas.com/bench/hello_bysystem.html. Nothing there on FastCGI and most of the stats are _not_ reliable b/c the benchmarking client was on the same machine as the web server, but it's still an interesting reference. Cheers. ________________________ Alex Algard SoundDomain.com | CarDomain.com | WhitePages.com 425-820-2244 x11 | fax: 425-820-5951 algard@sounddomain.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Sat Jul 22 13:21:33 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: List now Closed- Post from Correct Address Message-ID: <20000722112133.A2559@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUGsters, The new mailing list maintainer for the Perl Mongers has just converted all the lists to "closed" status, which means that if you had originally [s]ubscribed as joe@hitek.com and try to post from joseph@lotek.com, your postings will mysteriously fail to appear, without any feedback to alert you to that effect. This may have been a rather rash decision on his part, but I'm not going to fight it, because we might be moving to a different list server in the very near future anyway. In the meantime, please post from the [s]ubscribed address, to avoid problems. -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== Hello, You are receiving this email because you are the list owner of a mailing list on hfb.pm.org. Due to recent spam complaints by members of multiple mailing lists, and the recent use of many of our lists as a target address by a spammer, I have "closed" all mailing lists. This will affect a some of your members. Some people send mail from a different address than the one they are subscribed as. These members will no longer be able to post messages to the list. The simplest solution is for them to post from where the subscribed from. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From spug at consultix-inc.com Sat Jul 22 13:48:46 2000 From: spug at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/Seattle PERL Users Group) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Posting Rules Normal, if you can see this Message-ID: <20000722114846.A2811@timji.consultix.wa.com> If you can see this message, which I posted from an unsubscribed address, then I've succeeded in overriding the changes made by the Perl Mongers guy to our list, and everything's back to normal! 8-} -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel/Fax: (206)781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Sun Jul 23 23:08:48 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl Conference Pics on Web Page Message-ID: <20000723210848.A8267@timji.consultix.wa.com> I've put the photos I took at last week's Perl Conference 4.0 in Monterey up on the SPUG page, for your viewing pleasure. Most are of the two SPUG Golf Teams, and others of the Monterey Bay Aquarium and beach. Now that I've got my scanner heated up 8-}, I plan to put some pictures I took of the Damian-o-Rama and Dam-i-athon there too in the near future. -Tim ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From wwg at tscnet.com Mon Jul 24 00:27:41 2000 From: wwg at tscnet.com (wwg@tscnet.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: pSqlEdit Tk/DBI app (was SPUG@cpan.org and projects) References: <200007201625.AA219349152@mail.tanzatech.com> Message-ID: <397BD3CD.76B86D5A@tscnet.com> For those of you who were interested in the Tk DBI utility, it's up at: http://www.curiousmuse.com/projects/psqledit/ The tar.gz file contains the source (pSqlEdit.pl), the icons for the toolbar, a TODO file, and a contributions file. I realized after I put it up that the tgz file didn't have any path information, so be aware that it will extract all files to your current directory ... I would have liked to stick a few more comments in the code before letting others see it, but I've just been *too* busy. Sorry for any overly cryptic stuff ... Now: how do we handle discussions, assuming several of us start collaborating on this? Does the traffic get sent to the list, or what ... ??? Also, how do we determine if this is to become an "official" SPUG@cpan.org project or just one that several of us work on? btw, I like the idea someone mentioned of this db tool being able to integrate with a more general IDE ... Regards, Bill Graham Software Engineer 360 Powered Corp. www.360.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 24 00:37:07 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Quantum Superpositions Papers Message-ID: <20000723223707.A8458@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUGsters, Many of you will still be having confused thoughts and scary dreams about the 7/6 E-SPUG talk by *The Damian* entitled "Quantum Superpositions and the First Virtue," which, contrary to official expectations but in full compliance with my misguided advertising on http://use.perl.org, was ultimately reprised at "The Perl Conference" (http://www.halcyon.com/spug/#TPC) last Thursday, due to the unfortunate self-implosion of the PGA tournament. Anyway, Damian gave me a stack of 30 YAPC-surplus handouts for this talk, which consist of 26 screen images on 4 sheets of paper. I'll be happy to send a copy to anyone who mails me a self-addressed and stamped #10 envelope. Or, you can just show up at the August 15th SPUG meeting, where I'll be handing out the ones that remain. -Tim *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 24 10:31:00 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: YAPC::Europe Open for Registration Message-ID: <20000724083100.A9751@timji.consultix.wa.com> SPUGsterrs, YAPC::Europe seems like a great excuse for a trip to London; I'll go myself if I can find a reasonable air-fare from Seattle (so far, no luck!). 38 out of the 120 tickets are reportedly already gone, so register as soon as you can. ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * YAPC::Europe - Registration ----------------------------------- Registration for YAPC::Europe is now open at; http://registration.yapc.org YAPC::Europe is a grassroots, inexpensive Perl conference modelled on yapc (Yet Another Perl Conference). It will be held in London, UK from the 22nd to the 24th September 2000. Details of the conference can be found at; http://yapc.org/Europe/ Any questions about the conference should be directed to: yapc-europe@lists.dircon.co.uk - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From gheil at uswest.net Mon Jul 24 11:00:54 2000 From: gheil at uswest.net (greg heil) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Golf WAS:Re: Quantum Superpositions Papers References: <20000723223707.A8458@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: <397C6836.5C94FBB1@uswest.net> Tim said: > ...self-implosion of the PGA tournament. ... Was there a tournament? i was hoping to get a list of the challenges and maybe solutions ... -- greg heil mailto:gheil@acm.org http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From dha at panix.com Mon Jul 24 11:48:36 2000 From: dha at panix.com (David H. Adler) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Golf WAS:Re: Quantum Superpositions Papers In-Reply-To: <397C6836.5C94FBB1@uswest.net>; from gheil@uswest.net on Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 09:00:54AM -0700 References: <20000723223707.A8458@timji.consultix.wa.com> <397C6836.5C94FBB1@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20000724124836.A5573@panix.com> On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 09:00:54AM -0700, greg heil wrote: > Tim said: > > > ...self-implosion of the PGA tournament. > > ... Was there a tournament? > i was hoping to get a list of the > challenges and maybe solutions ... There was a tournament, but it got shut down due to technical difficulties. Nevertheless, Uri told me that he's going to try to put up a page somewhere about it with the questions and the solution the judges came up with. dha -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ There's more than one way to skin a cat, and I happen to know that's factually true. - Mayor Wilkins - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 24 14:27:25 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now Message-ID: <20000724122725.A11300@timji.consultix.wa.com> Once I get my scanner heated up, there's no stopping me! Just posted some pictures of Damian's visit to the SPUG page, to join my recent postings of TPC 4.0 pictures. If anybody else has photos they'd like to add to this collection, send 'em on over! -Tim P.S. Andy says the guy currently labeled as "Unidentified Guru" in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/n2h2.html is *not* Nat Torkington, which was my best guess. The same guy appears, with more facial features, in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/golfteams.html. Can somebody identify him please? *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From dean at ero.com Mon Jul 24 15:07:22 2000 From: dean at ero.com (Dean Hudson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now In-Reply-To: <20000724122725.A11300@timji.consultix.wa.com>; from tim@consultix-inc.com on Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:27:25PM -0700 References: <20000724122725.A11300@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: <20000724130721.B28329@ero.com> On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:27:25PM -0700, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: > P.S. Andy says the guy currently labeled as "Unidentified Guru" > in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/n2h2.html is *not* Nat Torkington, > which was my best guess. The same guy appears, with more facial features, > in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/golfteams.html. Can somebody > identify him please? Ronald J. Kimball dean. -- my $email = qr{ dean(h)?@(?(1)verio\.net # @ work if h | ero\.com) }x; # other - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 24 16:23:03 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now In-Reply-To: <20000724130721.B28329@ero.com>; from dean@ero.com on Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 01:07:22PM -0700 References: <20000724122725.A11300@timji.consultix.wa.com> <20000724130721.B28329@ero.com> Message-ID: <20000724142303.B11562@timji.consultix.wa.com> On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 01:07:22PM -0700, Dean Hudson wrote: > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:27:25PM -0700, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: > > > P.S. Andy says the guy currently labeled as "Unidentified Guru" > > in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/n2h2.html is *not* Nat Torkington, > > which was my best guess. The same guy appears, with more facial features, > > in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/golfteams.html. Can somebody > > identify him please? > > Ronald J. Kimball > > dean. Is this on the level? Who's that, besides some guy I've never heard of? I think I prefer my initial position that he's Nat Torkington. -Tim *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com Mon Jul 24 17:11:12 2000 From: ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com (ced@carios2.ca.boeing.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now Message-ID: <200007242211.PAA04874@carios2.ca.boeing.com> > Is this on the level? Who's that, besides some guy I've never heard of? Who was that masked man... Dunno but Ronald Kimball is active on p5p and was prolific on the Perl newsgroups in yesteryear. > I think I prefer my initial position that he's Nat Torkington.~v The mystery rages on... Cheers, -- Charles DeRykus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From nathan at n2h2.com Mon Jul 24 17:17:12 2000 From: nathan at n2h2.com (Nathan Lewis) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now In-Reply-To: <20000724142303.B11562@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: I don't think he was Nat Torkington. I remember another guy who came down to try to help with NFS problems but alas, I don't remember his name. Nathan On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 01:07:22PM -0700, Dean Hudson wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:27:25PM -0700, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: > > > > > P.S. Andy says the guy currently labeled as "Unidentified Guru" > > > in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/n2h2.html is *not* Nat Torkington, > > > which was my best guess. The same guy appears, with more facial features, > > > in http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/golfteams.html. Can somebody > > > identify him please? > > > > Ronald J. Kimball > > > > dean. > > Is this on the level? Who's that, besides some guy I've never heard of? > I think I prefer my initial position that he's Nat Torkington. > > -Tim > *========================================================================* > | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | > | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | > | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | > *========================================================================* > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From LaurenS at bsquare.com Mon Jul 24 17:22:49 2000 From: LaurenS at bsquare.com (Lauren Smith) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now Message-ID: <75514FC5ECC8D2118C8D00A0C9ED54DB914681@obcmail1.bsquare.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Maher/CONSULTIX [mailto:tim@consultix-inc.com] > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 2:23 PM > To: spug-list@pm.org > Subject: Re: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now > > > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 01:07:22PM -0700, Dean Hudson wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:27:25PM -0700, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: > > > > Ronald J. Kimball > > > > dean. > > Is this on the level? Who's that, besides some guy I've > never heard of? > I think I prefer my initial position that he's Nat Torkington. I can't tell, the TPC pictures don't have a good face-on shot. http://www.tiac.net/users/chipmunk/photos.html Lauren - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From dean at ero.com Mon Jul 24 18:11:55 2000 From: dean at ero.com (Dean Hudson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now In-Reply-To: <20000724142303.B11562@timji.consultix.wa.com>; from tim@consultix-inc.com on Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 02:23:03PM -0700 References: <20000724122725.A11300@timji.consultix.wa.com> <20000724130721.B28329@ero.com> <20000724142303.B11562@timji.consultix.wa.com> Message-ID: <20000724161154.D28329@ero.com> On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 02:23:03PM -0700, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: > Is this on the level? Who's that, besides some guy I've never heard of? > I think I prefer my initial position that he's Nat Torkington. Which is okay, aside from being incorrect. :) Here's evidence of his existence from p5p: From: Ronald J Kimball To: Jeff Pinyan Cc: abigail@foad.org, Bernie Cosell , fwp@technofile.org, perl5-porters@perl.org Subject: Re: [FWP] Comparing two arrays X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from +Jeff Pinyan on Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 05:18:16PM -0400 On Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 05:18:16PM -0400, Jeff Pinyan wrote: > Yup, I know. Sadly, Perl doesn't optimize > > ($a,$b,$c) = (split)[-3 .. -1]; > > the same way it optimizes > > ($a,$b,$c) = (split)[0..2]; # [0..2] optional, I believe... perl doesn't optimize either of those. If you want the optimization, you have to write: ($a,$b,$c) = split; _without_ the list slice. > And if it DOES optimize this, I am highly unaware. It'd be quite nice of > Perl to do this. How possible is this optimization? The first argument to split is a regex, so I think this optimization would not be possible at all. Perhaps in the most trivial cases, such as /a/, but then you wouldn't save much in an optimization anyway. Ronald -- my $email = qr{ dean(h)?@(?(1)verio\.net # @ work if h | ero\.com) }x; # other - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jdevlin at stadiumdistrict.com Tue Jul 25 01:35:48 2000 From: jdevlin at stadiumdistrict.com (Joe Devlin) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Does readpipe fail to parse arguments? Message-ID: <01BFF5C8.1B22E800@tac-lx100-ip47.nwnexus.net> No matter what I have tried, I cannot get readpipe to read an argument. I did a search on deja.com and found a couple of references to patches in the perl.porters-gw forum to 'fix' something like this problem with Perl version 5.00557. The version running at this site is 5.00503. Anyone have experience with this problem? Do you recommend the upgrade? #This works great: system "$document_root/cgi-bin/print_state_option.pl",$edit_fields{state}; #This fails to pass the arguments: $fields{'print_state_popup'} = readpipe "$document_root/cgi-bin/print_state_option.pl",$fields{state}; #the code doesn't crash, it just never sees the arguments - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From dave at dave.org.uk Tue Jul 25 10:05:38 2000 From: dave at dave.org.uk (Dave Cross) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now Message-ID: <250700207.29138@webbox.com> From: Tim Maher/CONSULTIX Date: 7/24/00 9:23:03 PM >On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 01:07:22PM -0700, Dean Hudson wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:27:25PM -0700, Tim Maher/CONSULTIX wrote: >> >> > P.S. Andy says the guy currently labeled >> > as "Unidentified Guru" in >> > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/n2h2.html is *not* >> > Nat Torkington, which was my best guess. The same guy >> > appears, with more facial features, in >> > http://www.halcyon.com/spug/TPC4.0/golfteams.html. >> > Can somebody identify him please? >> >> Ronald J. Kimball > > Is this on the level? Who's that, besides some guy I've > never heard of? I think I prefer my initial position that > he's Nat Torkington. It's definitely Ronald Kimball. I read his name badge whilst he was running around trying to fix the NFD problems. Dave... -- European Perl Conference (Sept 22/24, ICA, London) "Keats and Yeats are on your side, but you lose, 'cos Wilde is on mine." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andy at n2h2.com Tue Jul 25 11:35:52 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now In-Reply-To: <250700207.29138@webbox.com> Message-ID: On Jul 25, 2000 @ 8:05am, Dave Cross wrote: > From: Tim Maher/CONSULTIX > Date: 7/24/00 9:23:03 PM > > >On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 01:07:22PM -0700, Dean Hudson wrote: > >> > >> Ronald J. Kimball > > > > Is this on the level? Who's that, besides some guy I've > > never heard of? I think I prefer my initial position that > > he's Nat Torkington. > > It's definitely Ronald Kimball. I read his name badge whilst > he was running around trying to fix the NFD problems. Hmmm. Now look who's lurking on a list thousands of miles away. ;) Welcome to Seattle, Dave! -Andy -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From PFarrall at getthere.com Tue Jul 25 12:48:01 2000 From: PFarrall at getthere.com (Paul Farrall) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Message-ID: <7B9018C6292CD311A6550090274F3C5B056DEF9E@hq-mail1.getthere.com> Hi, At the Perl Conference Town Meeting, someone got up and said; "Perl has a serious image problem, what can we do to address this?". At the time, I thought wow it must suck to work at a place where the bosses buy into all the Perl FUD strewn about. Foolish me........ When I got back to work on Monday, I sent a summary of the conference to my department and the following reply came back from the VP of Engineering. > Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our > tools? Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in mind that this guy is my boss :-). Thanks Paul Farrall - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From dave at dave.org.uk Tue Jul 25 13:10:08 2000 From: dave at dave.org.uk (Dave Cross) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Damiathon Pix on SPUG Page now In-Reply-To: References: <250700207.29138@webbox.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000725190908.018772c0@pop.dave.org.uk> At 17:35 25/07/00, Andrew Sweger wrote: >Hmmm. Now look who's lurking on a list thousands of miles away. ;) I'm afraid I'm not very good at lurking tho'. I lasted less than a day :( >Welcome to Seattle, Dave! Thanks, Dave... -- SMS: sms@dave.org.uk yapc::Europe - London, 22 - 24 Sep "The blackness would hit me and the (void) would be calling..." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From Vince.Skahan at pss.boeing.com Tue Jul 25 13:24:43 2000 From: Vince.Skahan at pss.boeing.com (Skahan, Vince) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Message-ID: <71D105274EA7D011905700805FFECA5906B8F0C7@xch-sea-10.ca.boeing.com> what image (other than it works, and works wonderfully) do you think you need to beat ? -- -- Vince.Skahan@boeing.com - - - http://bcstec.ca.boeing.com/~vds/ -- The DoJ has determined that Linux has established and exploited a monopoly in the nonproprietary UNIX market by means of predatory zero pricing and blatantly superior implementation - Stan Kelly-Bootle (Performance Computing - 9/98) > ---------- > From: Paul Farrall[SMTP:PFarrall@getthere.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 10:48 AM > To: 'spug-list@pm.org' > Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD > > Hi, > > At the Perl Conference Town Meeting, someone got up and said; "Perl > has a serious image problem, what can we do to address this?". At the > time, I thought wow it must suck to work at a place where the bosses > buy into all the Perl FUD strewn about. Foolish me........ > > When I got back to work on Monday, I sent a summary of the conference > to my department and the following reply came back from the VP of > Engineering. > > > Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our > > tools? > > Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in > mind that this guy is my boss :-). > > Thanks > Paul Farrall > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From moonbeam at catmanor.com Tue Jul 25 13:51:56 2000 From: moonbeam at catmanor.com (William Julien) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Paul Farrall ' dated: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:48:01 -0700 Message-ID: <200007251851.LAA22012@catmanor.com> > >> Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our >> tools? > >Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in >mind that this guy is my boss :-). > >Thanks >Paul Farrall > How about quoting back to your boss the first paragraph in perldoc perlsec? Perl is designed to make it easy to program securely even when running with extra privileges, like setuid or setgid programs. Unlike most command line shells, which are based on multiple substitution passes on each line of the script, Perl uses a more conventional evaluation scheme with fewer hidden snags. Additionally, because the language has more builtin functionality, it can rely less upon external (and possibly untrustworthy) programs to accomplish its purposes. William Julien _,'| _.-''``-...___..--'; moonbeam@catmanor.com /, \'. _..-' , ,--...--''' vi is my shepherd; < \ .`--''' ` /| i shall not font. `-,;' ; ; ; __...--'' __...--_..' .;.' (,__....----''' (,..--'' perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);' - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com Tue Jul 25 14:04:27 2000 From: ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com (ced@carios2.ca.boeing.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Message-ID: <200007251904.MAA05679@carios2.ca.boeing.com> BOSS: "Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our tools?" > Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in > mind that this guy is my boss :-). I'm not sure what security concerns he's been misinformed about but Perl has an enviable reputation for its security mechanisms. If you need a published cite: "Practical Unix Security" by S.Garfinkel & Gene Spafford That's a bit dated I suppose but Perl's taint checking is still a safeguard unmatched elsewhere. Forked processes via magical opens provide a device to isolate dangerous operations. The latest perl offers a strategy to foil possible security flaws that can occur due to temporary files. If that's not enough there's the under utilized Safe module which allows you to compile and execute code in restricted compartments. Carefully reading the perlsec docs will reveal more. Rgds, -- Charles DeRykus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com Tue Jul 25 14:14:24 2000 From: ced at carios2.ca.boeing.com (ced@carios2.ca.boeing.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Does readpipe fail to parse arguments? Message-ID: <200007251914.MAA05687@carios2.ca.boeing.com> > #This works great: > system "$document_root/cgi-bin/print_state_option.pl",$edit_fields{state}; #This fails to pass the arguments: > $fields{'print_state_popup'} = > readpipe "$document_root/cgi-bin/print_state_option.pl",$fields{state}; > #the code doesn't crash, it just never sees the arguments You're passing different args in the two cases: $edit_fields{state} vs. $fields{state} Was this just a typo... ? -- Charles DeRykus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Tue Jul 25 14:27:08 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:28 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Message-ID: Paul, Don't assume you can't be rational just because he's your boss :) Find out what the security issues are and deal with them on a one by one basis. If you let him make blanket statements then you've already lost the fight. Brian Paul Farrall @pm.org on 07/25/2000 11:48:01 AM Sent by: owner-spug-list@pm.org To: "'spug-list@pm.org'" cc: Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Hi, At the Perl Conference Town Meeting, someone got up and said; "Perl has a serious image problem, what can we do to address this?". At the time, I thought wow it must suck to work at a place where the bosses buy into all the Perl FUD strewn about. Foolish me........ When I got back to work on Monday, I sent a summary of the conference to my department and the following reply came back from the VP of Engineering. > Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our > tools? Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in mind that this guy is my boss :-). Thanks Paul Farrall - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Tue Jul 25 14:33:17 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Message-ID: ... and don't make blanket statements about Perl either. It's wonderful for many specific reasons. Brian "Skahan, Vince" @pm.org on 07/25/2000 12:24:43 PM Sent by: owner-spug-list@pm.org To: "'spug-list@pm.org'" , "'Paul Farrall'" cc: Subject: RE: SPUG: Perl FUD what image (other than it works, and works wonderfully) do you think you need to beat ? -- -- Vince.Skahan@boeing.com - - - http://bcstec.ca.boeing.com/~vds/ -- The DoJ has determined that Linux has established and exploited a monopoly in the nonproprietary UNIX market by means of predatory zero pricing and blatantly superior implementation - Stan Kelly-Bootle (Performance Computing - 9/98) > ---------- > From: Paul Farrall[SMTP:PFarrall@getthere.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 10:48 AM > To: 'spug-list@pm.org' > Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD > > Hi, > > At the Perl Conference Town Meeting, someone got up and said; "Perl > has a serious image problem, what can we do to address this?". At the > time, I thought wow it must suck to work at a place where the bosses > buy into all the Perl FUD strewn about. Foolish me........ > > When I got back to work on Monday, I sent a summary of the conference > to my department and the following reply came back from the VP of > Engineering. > > > Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our > > tools? > > Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in > mind that this guy is my boss :-). > > Thanks > Paul Farrall > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From lorraine at nw.saic.com Tue Jul 25 14:53:38 2000 From: lorraine at nw.saic.com (Lorraine Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000725125338.00923ac0@zephyr.nw.saic.com> Paul, >From my reading, it seems that no language can be considered fool-proof and safe. (If there WERE such a language, everyone would have abandoned C/C++, Java, and Perl for CGI programs long ago.) The point is to understand the common mistakes for your language which can lead to security holes and develop a checklist for catching them. For example, in C, string variables have declared lengths, so you need to check that the user hasn't entered more than that number of characters - a buffer overflow. (And you need to remember that the end of string marker counts in the number of characters!) On the plus side for Perl, there's taint mode, where you are warned if you try to use user-supplied data without validating it. Since Perl is so heavily used on the Internet, I would think its pitfalls are pretty well known by now. There are a number of resources on avoiding insecure Perl (I've found help for my CGI work at http://advosys.ca, there's CERT, there's http://www.w3.org/Security/Faq/www-security-faq.html). If you're not developing for the Web, then some of that information doesn't apply, but much of it is general. To sum up, any language will have it's security traps. Perl's advantages are that: it has an automatic checking mode which HELPS you avoid them; it is well-supported by multiple resources (print, Web, human); and its user community will openly discuss problems and work-arounds. Hope this is useful, Lorraine At 10:48 AM 7/25/00 -0700, Paul Farrall wrote: >Hi, > >At the Perl Conference Town Meeting, someone got up and said; "Perl >has a serious image problem, what can we do to address this?". At the >time, I thought wow it must suck to work at a place where the bosses >buy into all the Perl FUD strewn about. Foolish me........ > >When I got back to work on Monday, I sent a summary of the conference >to my department and the following reply came back from the VP of >Engineering. > >> Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our >> tools? > >Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in >mind that this guy is my boss :-). > >Thanks >Paul Farrall ................................... J. Lorraine Johnson SAIC/Sea Technology lorraine@nw.saic.com v: (425) 482-3316 f: (425) 485-5566 http://www.nw.saic.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jeff at planetoid.net Tue Jul 25 16:23:39 2000 From: jeff at planetoid.net (jeff) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: slowing down a web form References: <3.0.32.20000725125338.00923ac0@zephyr.nw.saic.com> Message-ID: <397E055B.24CEF142@planetoid.net> What's a good technique (using cgi and perl/apache/mysql) to slow down or control the number of times a form can be submitted per hour? I need to throttle down a membership application page on a web site to restrict the number of submissions or applications per hour to some number. I've heard that mod_simultaneous manages hit rates to web pages but I haven't used it before. So... Any ideas. -- Jeff Saenz jeff@planetoid.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From PFarrall at getthere.com Tue Jul 25 16:42:31 2000 From: PFarrall at getthere.com (Paul Farrall) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl FUD Message-ID: <7B9018C6292CD311A6550090274F3C5B056DEF9F@hq-mail1.getthere.com> Thanks everyone for all your advice. I was already thinking of a lot of the same technical points that were pointed out (Taint mode, no buffer overflows, etc..), but it was reassuring to see my thoughts mirrored and I got a few ideas I hadn't thought of too. The advice on how to approach the discussion (aka politics) was especially useful and I now have a list of bulleted points that I can respond with. Hopefully this will direct the discussion away from blanket statements like "C Good. Perl Bad" and towards specific concerns and issues. Thanks again, Paul Farrall > -----Original Message----- > From: lorraine@nw.saic.com [mailto:lorraine@nw.saic.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 12:54 PM > To: Paul Farrall; 'spug-list@pm.org' > Subject: Re: SPUG: Perl FUD > > > Paul, > > From my reading, it seems that no language can be considered > fool-proof and > safe. (If there WERE such a language, everyone would have > abandoned C/C++, > Java, and Perl for CGI programs long ago.) The point is to > understand the > common mistakes for your language which can lead to security holes and > develop a checklist for catching them. For example, in C, > string variables > have declared lengths, so you need to check that the user > hasn't entered > more than that number of characters - a buffer overflow. > (And you need to > remember that the end of string marker counts in the number > of characters!) > > On the plus side for Perl, there's taint mode, where you are > warned if you > try to use user-supplied data without validating it. Since Perl is so > heavily used on the Internet, I would think its pitfalls are > pretty well > known by now. There are a number of resources on avoiding > insecure Perl > (I've found help for my CGI work at http://advosys.ca, there's CERT, > there's > http://www.w3.org/Security/Faq/www-security-faq.html). If > you're > not developing for the Web, then some of that information > doesn't apply, > but much of it is general. > > To sum up, any language will have it's security traps. > Perl's advantages > are that: it has an automatic checking mode which HELPS you > avoid them; it > is well-supported by multiple resources (print, Web, human); > and its user > community will openly discuss problems and work-arounds. > > Hope this is useful, > > Lorraine > > At 10:48 AM 7/25/00 -0700, Paul Farrall wrote: > >Hi, > > > >At the Perl Conference Town Meeting, someone got up and said; "Perl > >has a serious image problem, what can we do to address > this?". At the > >time, I thought wow it must suck to work at a place where the bosses > >buy into all the Perl FUD strewn about. Foolish me........ > > > >When I got back to work on Monday, I sent a summary of the conference > >to my department and the following reply came back from the VP of > >Engineering. > > > >> Given security issues, is it a good idea to be using PERL for our > >> tools? > > > >Does anyone have any good advice on how to respond to this? Keep in > >mind that this guy is my boss :-). > > > >Thanks > >Paul Farrall > > ................................... > J. Lorraine Johnson > SAIC/Sea Technology > lorraine@nw.saic.com > v: (425) 482-3316 > f: (425) 485-5566 > http://www.nw.saic.com > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your > Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use > spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From Vinhvt at aol.com Tue Jul 25 20:17:28 2000 From: Vinhvt at aol.com (Vinhvt@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Does readpipe fail to parse arguments? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/25/00 12:10:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jdevlin@stadiumdistrict.com writes: << Anyone have experience with this problem? Do you recommend the upgrade? #This works great: system "$document_root/cgi-bin/print_state_option.pl",$edit_fields{state}; #This fails to pass the arguments: $fields{'print_state_popup'} = readpipe "$document_root/cgi-bin/print_state_option.pl",$fields{state}; #the code doesn't crash, it just never sees the arguments >> Hi, I am new to this group, and I am no expert in Perl. My limited understanding, based on 5.00502, has been that readpipe expects an expression, not a list. In that case, $fields{state} will not be passed to your .pl script. May this has change with later versions. In any event, on unix with 5.00502, the following works fine for me. @field = readpipe ("\$HOME/print_1stday.pl @months{@ARGV}"); Good luck. Best regards, Vinh V. Tat - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Wed Jul 26 08:13:47 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: The beans Message-ID: Hi all, Last week I promised to summarize the "SPUG@cpan.org" project happenings. Well, I didn't get a chance to and probably won't until next week. (I'm on vacation this week, racing my bicycle at the masters national championships in Indianapolis; and using this crapppy web-based mail client again) Anyway, I wanted to elaborate just a bit on the events that Andy alluded to in his post last Friday. It seems that Damian Conway would be willing to let our group maintain one or more of his excellent modules! One of the most promising possibilities is LlamaCard.pm (a Tk/perl/XML based HyperCard look-alike) written by on of his students, Aaron Wigley. At the very least this module should be given a serious look for any Tk based apps we may want to persue. I'll say more next week but for now I'd like to see the ideas keep rolling in. Keep in mind for the initial project we should probably pick something with the following attributes: 1) Is a module (not a script or app) 2) Finishable in a 1-2 month timeframe. 3) Usable on Unix and Win32 The important thing initially is to get a good infrastructure set up for doing this. Then we can take on the world... Brian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From starfire at zipcon.net Wed Jul 26 08:58:57 2000 From: starfire at zipcon.net (Richard Anderson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: slowing down a web form References: <3.0.32.20000725125338.00923ac0@zephyr.nw.saic.com> <397E055B.24CEF142@planetoid.net> Message-ID: <005701bff709$a6c1d370$7a0ff93f@adcom133> The first thought that would occur to me is to have the CGI script called by the form increment a counter in a file named using today's date. Once you have a backlog of seven daily counts, have the CGI script read the daily submission rate from seven days ago and throw a random number to reject submissions at a rate that will bring the submission rate down to the desired rate. Crude but effective. Don't forget to use flock to prevent multiple instances of the CGI script from writing the file simultaneously. A cron job to delete counter files older than seven days would be tidy. Richard.Anderson@raycosoft.com www.zipcon.net/~starfire/home (personal) www.raycosoft.com (corporate) ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 2:23 PM Subject: SPUG: slowing down a web form > What's a good technique (using cgi and perl/apache/mysql) to slow down > or control the number of times a form can be submitted per hour? > > I need to throttle down a membership application page on a web site to > restrict the number of submissions or applications per hour to some > number. > > I've heard that mod_simultaneous manages hit rates to web pages but I > haven't used it before. So... > > Any ideas. > > -- > Jeff Saenz > jeff@planetoid.net > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From wwg at tscnet.com Wed Jul 26 13:55:34 2000 From: wwg at tscnet.com (wwg@tscnet.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: The beans References: Message-ID: <397F3426.65C94C49@tscnet.com> > I'll say more next week but for now I'd like to see the ideas keep rolling > in. Keep in mind for the initial project we should probably pick something > with the following attributes: > > 1) Is a module (not a script or app) > 2) Finishable in a 1-2 month timeframe. > 3) Usable on Unix and Win32 > > The important thing initially is to get a good infrastructure set up for > doing this. Then we can take on the world... > > Brian Makes sense to me ... sounds like the db browser should maybe be a separate project that some of us may work on, rather than a CPAN project; it's really an application, rather than a module ... The LlamaCard module sounds cool! Regards, Bill Graham - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Wed Jul 26 17:04:26 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: The beans In-Reply-To: ; from B.Ingerson@epixtech.com on Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:13:47AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20000726150426.A18700@timji.consultix.wa.com> On Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 07:13:47AM -0600, B.Ingerson@epixtech.com wrote: > Hi all, > (BIG snip) > Keep in mind for the initial project we should probably pick something > with the following attributes: > > 1) Is a module (not a script or app) > 2) Finishable in a 1-2 month timeframe. > 3) Usable on Unix and Win32 I agree wholeheartedly. The LAST thing we want to do here is take on overly ambitious projects, have them get bogged down in logistical issues, and then have the whole effort fall into disarray and grind to a halt with everybody frustrated and mad at the end, with nothing to show for their efforts. (Think this can't happen? 9-{) I'd encourage a rather modest project at first, to let us learn how to coordinate the team-work (CVS? Damian's "Programming by Contract?") before taking on something more challenging. > The important thing initially is to get a good infrastructure set up for > doing this. Then we can take on the world... Agreed! Once we've got the "software infrastructure" and "wetware coordination" elements figured out, we should be able to tackle really juicy projects with ease. > > Brian > -- *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Wed Jul 26 17:44:41 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: The beans Message-ID: Bill, I would like to see the DB browser go on the project list as soon as we get the details of group development ironed out (prolly not a trivial task). In the mean time, keep it rolling... A group of us got to talking about your browser at the conference, and extended it (conceptually) into a tool for autogenerating simple DB apps in Tk. LlamaCard goes a long way towards making that possible. LlamaCard was *very* cool. It should be on the CPAN in the next few weeks, as soon as Damian and Aaron get settled back in Australia. I hope to see you at the August SPUG. Brian wwg@tscnet.com@mail.tscnet.net on 07/26/2000 12:55:34 PM Sent by: billg@mail.tscnet.net To: B.Ingerson@epixtech.com cc: SPUG@cpan.org Subject: Re: SPUG: The beans > I'll say more next week but for now I'd like to see the ideas keep rolling > in. Keep in mind for the initial project we should probably pick something > with the following attributes: > > 1) Is a module (not a script or app) > 2) Finishable in a 1-2 month timeframe. > 3) Usable on Unix and Win32 > > The important thing initially is to get a good infrastructure set up for > doing this. Then we can take on the world... > > Brian Makes sense to me ... sounds like the db browser should maybe be a separate project that some of us may work on, rather than a CPAN project; it's really an application, rather than a module ... The LlamaCard module sounds cool! Regards, Bill Graham - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tnight at ironworx.com Wed Jul 26 18:05:06 2000 From: tnight at ironworx.com (Terry Nightingale) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: The beans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 B.Ingerson@epixtech.com wrote: > > Bill, > > I would like to see the DB browser go on the project list as soon as we get > the details of group development ironed out (prolly not a trivial task). In > the mean time, keep it rolling... As regards project coordination, would it make sense to take advantage of a resource such as sourceforge.net? Most of the requisite tools are already in place there, the issue at that point becomes how to best utilize them. Just an idea... -- Terry Nightingale Principal Consultant, IronWorx LLC +1-425-649-9304(v) / +1-425-643-7112(f) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From B.Ingerson at epixtech.com Wed Jul 26 18:36:19 2000 From: B.Ingerson at epixtech.com (B.Ingerson@epixtech.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: The beans Message-ID: >As regards project coordination, would it make sense to take advantage of a >resource such as sourceforge.net? Most of the requisite tools are already in >place there, the issue at that point becomes how to best utilize them. >Just an idea... Sounds like an idea worth looking into. Do you think that you could investigate the pros, cons, and howtos and bring them to the meeting? Brian - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jody at tc.fluke.com Thu Jul 27 10:46:42 2000 From: jody at tc.fluke.com (Jody Magnuson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Help with unpacking bit fields from binary data References: <1654BC972546D31189DA00508B318AC80122F23D@charmander.wrq.com> Message-ID: <39805962.D1961E08@tc.fluke.com> I want to take binary data and unpack it into bit fields of various lengths. In my example below, the first 6 bits (110011 or 51), the next 7 bits (0100001 or 33), and the last 3 bits (010 or 2). I thought the following unpack command might work but this takes the first 6 bits of the first byte (51) and then the first 7 bits of the second byte (5) and nothing goes into $c. I could unpack it into one long binary string and then use substr to extract the portions of interest but I was hoping there was a cleaner way to do it. Thanks in advance for any help. Jody Magnuson e-mail: jody@tc.fluke.com telephone: +1 425 446 5672 mail: Fluke Corporation / PO Box 9090 / Everett, WA 98206-9090 USA #! /usr/local/bin/perl -w use strict; # from the Perl Cookbook sub bin2dec { return unpack("N", pack("B32", substr("0" x 32 . shift, -32))); } my $binary = pack "B*", "1100110100001010"; # Why doesn't this work? my ($a, $b, $c) = unpack("B6 B7 B3", $binary); printf "a/b/c = %d %d %d\n", bin2dec($a), bin2dec($b), bin2dec($c); - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ronh at iainc.com Thu Jul 27 13:36:09 2000 From: ronh at iainc.com (Ron Hartikka) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Help with unpacking bit fields from binary data In-Reply-To: <39805962.D1961E08@tc.fluke.com> Message-ID: Can you use this? # from the Perl Cookbook sub bin2dec { return unpack("N", pack("B32", substr("0" x 32 . shift, -32))); } my $binary = pack "B6B7B3", "110011", "0100001", "010"; # Why doesn't this work? my ($a, $b, $c) = unpack("B6 B7 B3", $binary); printf "a/b/c = %d %d %d\n", bin2dec($a), bin2dec($b), bin2dec($c); Seems like "The same template may generally also be used in the unpack function." from the documentation of pack. -----Original Message----- From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Jody Magnuson Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:47 AM To: spug-list@pm.org Subject: SPUG: Help with unpacking bit fields from binary data I want to take binary data and unpack it into bit fields of various lengths. In my example below, the first 6 bits (110011 or 51), the next 7 bits (0100001 or 33), and the last 3 bits (010 or 2). I thought the following unpack command might work but this takes the first 6 bits of the first byte (51) and then the first 7 bits of the second byte (5) and nothing goes into $c. I could unpack it into one long binary string and then use substr to extract the portions of interest but I was hoping there was a cleaner way to do it. Thanks in advance for any help. Jody Magnuson e-mail: jody@tc.fluke.com telephone: +1 425 446 5672 mail: Fluke Corporation / PO Box 9090 / Everett, WA 98206-9090 USA #! /usr/local/bin/perl -w use strict; # from the Perl Cookbook sub bin2dec { return unpack("N", pack("B32", substr("0" x 32 . shift, -32))); } my $binary = pack "B*", "1100110100001010"; # Why doesn't this work? my ($a, $b, $c) = unpack("B6 B7 B3", $binary); printf "a/b/c = %d %d %d\n", bin2dec($a), bin2dec($b), bin2dec($c); - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From moonbeam at catmanor.com Thu Jul 27 21:51:35 2000 From: moonbeam at catmanor.com (William Julien) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: SPUG project? In-Reply-To: Mail from 'B.Ingerson@epixtech.com' dated: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:13:47 -0600 Message-ID: <200007280251.TAA25325@catmanor.com> > >I'll say more next week but for now I'd like to see the ideas keep rolling >in. Keep in mind for the initial project we should probably pick something >with the following attributes: > >1) Is a module (not a script or app) >2) Finishable in a 1-2 month timeframe. >3) Usable on Unix and Win32 > One idea I have for a "do-able" project is a module to facilitate the generation of a web based calendar/scheduling system. Something like... use spugcal qw':monthly'; # get's top billing! use CGI ':standard'; $userid = "moonbeam"; $group = "kittens"; %date = ("$userid $group Jul-26-2000 15:00" => "Go to the company picnic", "$userid $group Jul-27-2000 08:00" => "get a life" ); print header, start_html; $spugcal = new spugcal->connect( $userid, $group, $passwd ) or die "Laughing\n"; $calendar = $spugcal->calendar_month ( -events => \%dates, -month => 'Jul', -year => 2000, -bgcolor => "lightblue", -textcolor => "black", ); print $calendar; print end_html; would print a basic monthly calendar with two events. The module would need to handle: - support external data model (as shown above). - internal data model using DBI database administration of the events. - database administration support - handle time zone differences options to display the event in the server's, the poster's, or the viewer's timezone. - login and security - account and group administration methods - various display views Monthly weekly daily - handle schedule conflicts - email notification of events done via cron, outside the web server context I checked CPAN, and I found a few simple calendars, but nothing that can be used as a distributed scheduler. Could this be a SPUG killer app? --- William Julien _,'| _.-''``-...___..--'; moonbeam@catmanor.com /, \'. _..-' , ,--...--''' vi is my shepherd; < \ .`--''' ` /| i shall not font. `-,;' ; ; ; __...--'' __...--_..' .;.' (,__....----''' (,..--'' perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);' - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From marlingreene at mindspring.com Fri Jul 28 12:08:33 2000 From: marlingreene at mindspring.com (marlin) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: retrieving image from form element Message-ID: <3981BE11.59B4EF6C@mindspring.com> I'm using a file form element to point to a client side image that is sent to a server side Perl script. Here is the HTML... Select an image to send to database...must be .jpg format.



On the receive side, if I use a typical print keys to see what came across I can see the data for the image... foreach $key (keys %in) { print "$key is $in{$key}
"; #prints image data } However, if I print $in{image1} I get a "document contains no data" error. Can anyone tell me the correct way to capture the image data and save it to a file on the server side. Thanks in advance. Marlin Greene -- 3 Hats Design INTERNET PRINT ILLUSTRATION 5201 15 Ave NW Suite 220 Seattle, WA 98107 206.784.1641 phone 206.784.2231 fax marlin@3hats.com http://www.3hats.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From jcokos at ccs.net Fri Jul 28 12:59:12 2000 From: jcokos at ccs.net (John Cokos) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: retrieving image from form element References: <3981BE11.59B4EF6C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <014a01bff8bd$89197e80$28e842cf@iwebx1> How are you splitting the form data? "multipart/form-data" is a special thingie that many stock parsers won't be able to deal with. If you're using CGI.pm, you should have to trouble. ie: my($size,$data,$total_size); my $query = new CGI; my $fullfilename = $query->param('image1'); my $filename = "whateveryouwant.jpg"; ## Should come from the form ### SLAM IT TO DISK ### open (SAVE,">/full/path/to/some/directory/$filename") || die "Some error here"; while ($size = read($fullfilename,$data,1024)) { print SAVE $data; $total_size += $size; } close SAVE; Of course, you'll want to do some file size and type checking (so that noone can upload a virus.exe file that's named "mypic.jpg") John======================================== John Cokos, President / CEO: iWeb Inc. http://www.iwebsys.com jcokos@ccs.net ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "marlin" To: Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:08 AM Subject: SPUG: retrieving image from form element > I'm using a file form element to point to a client side image that > is sent to a server side Perl script. Here is the HTML... > >
ENCTYPE="multipart/form-data" > > Select an image to send to database...must be .jpg format.

>

> >
> > On the receive side, if I use a typical print keys to see what came > across I can see the data for the image... > > foreach $key (keys %in) > { > print "$key is $in{$key}
"; #prints image data > } > > However, if I print $in{image1} I get a "document contains no data" error. > > Can anyone tell me the correct way to capture the image data and save > it to a file on the server side. > > Thanks in advance. > > Marlin Greene > > -- > 3 Hats Design > INTERNET PRINT ILLUSTRATION > 5201 15 Ave NW > Suite 220 > Seattle, WA 98107 > 206.784.1641 phone > 206.784.2231 fax > marlin@3hats.com > http://www.3hats.com > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From achen at cobaltgroup.com Fri Jul 28 13:22:58 2000 From: achen at cobaltgroup.com (Andrew Chen) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: [OT] How to get project list in CVS? Message-ID: Hi all, This is pretty off-topic, but it fits into something I'm doing with Perl :) so bear with me. How do I get a list of projects in CVS? After skimming through some CVS documentation, I looked at VCS::CVS hoping that it would have an easy to use interface for this operation, but there isn't. I asked around the office about getting a list of projects from CVS, but no one seemed to know. The repository is on a different machine, and I'd rather not hack it by doing something too weird, but I guess if that's the only way... Anyway, thanks in advance! Andrew Chen Intern, Architecture achen@cobaltgroup.com 206-219-8445 The Cobalt Group, Inc. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From ronh at iainc.com Fri Jul 28 14:04:19 2000 From: ronh at iainc.com (Ron Hartikka) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Help with unpacking bit fields from binary data In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Although what I posted seems to work, I don't really understand it. Is this the right approach? Jody, does it work for you? -----Original Message----- From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Ron Hartikka Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 2:36 PM To: spug-list@pm.org Subject: RE: SPUG: Help with unpacking bit fields from binary data Can you use this? # from the Perl Cookbook sub bin2dec { return unpack("N", pack("B32", substr("0" x 32 . shift, -32))); } my $binary = pack "B6B7B3", "110011", "0100001", "010"; # Why doesn't this work? my ($a, $b, $c) = unpack("B6 B7 B3", $binary); printf "a/b/c = %d %d %d\n", bin2dec($a), bin2dec($b), bin2dec($c); Seems like "The same template may generally also be used in the unpack function." from the documentation of pack. -----Original Message----- From: owner-spug-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-spug-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Jody Magnuson Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:47 AM To: spug-list@pm.org Subject: SPUG: Help with unpacking bit fields from binary data I want to take binary data and unpack it into bit fields of various lengths. In my example below, the first 6 bits (110011 or 51), the next 7 bits (0100001 or 33), and the last 3 bits (010 or 2). I thought the following unpack command might work but this takes the first 6 bits of the first byte (51) and then the first 7 bits of the second byte (5) and nothing goes into $c. I could unpack it into one long binary string and then use substr to extract the portions of interest but I was hoping there was a cleaner way to do it. Thanks in advance for any help. Jody Magnuson e-mail: jody@tc.fluke.com telephone: +1 425 446 5672 mail: Fluke Corporation / PO Box 9090 / Everett, WA 98206-9090 USA #! /usr/local/bin/perl -w use strict; # from the Perl Cookbook sub bin2dec { return unpack("N", pack("B32", substr("0" x 32 . shift, -32))); } my $binary = pack "B*", "1100110100001010"; # Why doesn't this work? my ($a, $b, $c) = unpack("B6 B7 B3", $binary); printf "a/b/c = %d %d %d\n", bin2dec($a), bin2dec($b), bin2dec($c); - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Fri Jul 28 15:28:15 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Sr. Net Admin/Perl Programmer, Kirkland Message-ID: <20000728132815.A6447@timji.consultix.wa.com> Position: Sr. Network Administrator\ PERL Programmer Permanent position: aggressive stock option plan (vests over 3 years). Placement directly with company, no recruiters please. W-2, full time employee status, no 1099 contracting. Location: 206 Kirkland Ave. downtown Kirkland, no telecommuting. Company's service: broadband online service/portal. Required Skill sets: Understanding of Linux running Apache, knowledge of mail protocols, DNS, PERL, PHP or another scripting language. Experience with SQL database server desirable. At least 4 years experience building and managing commercial web sites. Experience with Macromedia Generator and streaming media technologies a big plus. What is Neptune.com: Neptune.com develops creation, content, and communication applications exclusively for broadband ISPs. Using a proprietary technology platform, Neptune.com presents database driven content through a next-generation, broadband interface. Neptune.com is an emerging leader in its category. As a Neptune employee, you will work with other Sr. developers and professionals to build cutting edge products that will revolutionize the industry over the next 3 years. Company Info and Location: Neptune.com is a Washington corporation. Permanent, W-2 (non-contract) employees preferred. Address: 206 Kirkland Ave, Downtown Kirkland. Centrally located on the East side, 20 minutes from downtown Seattle. More benefits: Full health care benefits. Aggressive stock option plan. Free video games at the arcade next to the office. The Neptune.com campus includes great restaurants, 2 parks, and direct access to Lake Washington. Please submit resumes to jobs@neptune.com, or call 425-803-3200. If you call, make sure to say upfront that you're interested in the Sr. Network Administrator position. No recruiters please. Thanks. James Tippets - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From Vinhvt at aol.com Fri Jul 28 16:40:08 2000 From: Vinhvt at aol.com (Vinhvt@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Where is the job listing? Message-ID: Gentlefolks, At the risk of harping upon what may be a FAQ, could anyone tell me if SPUG is actively maintaining a job listing? I have checked the web site which suggests that new openings are emailed to members. However, I have not seen any posting for nearly two weeks. Thanks. Regards, Vinh V. Tat - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From andy at n2h2.com Mon Jul 31 01:47:42 2000 From: andy at n2h2.com (Andrew Sweger) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: [OT] How to get project list in CVS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2000 @ 11:22am, Andrew Chen wrote: > How do I get a list of projects in CVS? After skimming through some CVS > documentation, I looked at VCS::CVS hoping that it would have an easy to > use interface for this operation, but there isn't. I asked around the > office about getting a list of projects from CVS, but no one seemed to > know. > > The repository is on a different machine, and I'd rather not hack it by > doing something too weird, but I guess if that's the only way... Well, this sorta depends on how you access the respository on the remote machine. If you are using a local cvs binary via one of the typical pserver/rsh/ssh, you can get a list of the published modules with: $ cvs -d checkout -c or $ cvs -d checkout -s The second one is only useful in those cases where folks populate the CVSROOT/modules file using the -s option (the little documented status field). Of course, if the CVSROOT/modules file is not being kept up to date, then this is all pointless and you'll have to do something weird, like using 'ls' on the repository directory (shudder). -- Andrew Sweger | N2H2, Incorporated Systems Architect | 900 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3400 Advanced Technologies Division | Seattle WA 98164-1059 v=206.336.2947 f=206.336.1541 | http://www.n2h2.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From slagel at geospiza.com Mon Jul 31 14:43:43 2000 From: slagel at geospiza.com (Joe Slagel) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Disk Bummer -- Someone know of a group in Seattle to get data off of bad disks? Message-ID: <3985D6EE.4653D31B@geospiza.com> Off topic question, but I thought some of the sysadmins on this list may have some advice. We may or may not have had a malicious employee (fomer!) attempt to wipe a disk. Does anyone know of some disk repair service companies in Seattle? (It's a scuzzy, ext2 formatted disk...or at least was and now is failing to mount). Thanks, Joe -- Joe Slagel Geospiza, Inc. 619 N 35th Street Suite 101M (206) 633-4403 slagel@geospiza.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From bill at celestial.com Mon Jul 31 15:26:24 2000 From: bill at celestial.com (Bill Campbell) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Disk Bummer -- Someone know of a group in Seattle to get data off of bad disks? In-Reply-To: <3985D6EE.4653D31B@geospiza.com>; from slagel@geospiza.com on Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 12:43:43PM -0700 References: <3985D6EE.4653D31B@geospiza.com> Message-ID: <20000731132623.A16947@kstarr.celestial.com> I don't know if this place still exists, but you might tri: Disk Drive Repair 863 Industry Drive Bldg 23 Tukwila WA 98188 (206) 575-3181 Bill -- INTERNET: bill@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Systems, Inc. UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ Make no laws whatever concerning speech and, speech will be free; so soon as you make a declaration on paper that speech shall be free, you will have a hundred lawyers proving that ``freedom does not mean abuse, nor liberty license;'' and they will define and define freedom out of existence. - Voltarine de Cleyre (1866-1912) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From chris at enthusiasm.com Mon Jul 31 16:00:11 2000 From: chris at enthusiasm.com (Christopher Cavnor) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Disk Bummer -- Someone know of a group in Seattle to get data off of bad disks? References: <3985D6EE.4653D31B@geospiza.com> Message-ID: <3985E8DB.8EE4C2B2@enthusiasm.com> I've used this util with favorable results (75% recovery) : http://www.linuxave.net/~recover/ good luck!! Joe Slagel wrote: > Off topic question, but I thought some of the sysadmins on > this list may have some advice. > > We may or may not have had a malicious employee (fomer!) > attempt to wipe a disk. Does anyone know of some disk > repair service companies in Seattle? (It's a scuzzy, ext2 > formatted disk...or at least was and now is failing to > mount). > > Thanks, > Joe > > -- > Joe Slagel > Geospiza, Inc. > 619 N 35th Street Suite 101M > (206) 633-4403 > slagel@geospiza.com > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From eric at go2net.com Mon Jul 31 18:29:02 2000 From: eric at go2net.com (Eric Lundberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: OT Re: SPUG: Disk Bummer -- Someone know of a group in Seattle to get data off of bad disks? In-Reply-To: <3985E8DB.8EE4C2B2@enthusiasm.com>; from chris@enthusiasm.com on Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 02:00:11PM -0700 References: <3985D6EE.4653D31B@geospiza.com> <3985E8DB.8EE4C2B2@enthusiasm.com> Message-ID: <20000731162901.B5054@go2net.com> To continue the off topicness, how about data recover on a drive that goes: 'click click click' when it powers up? I.e., hardware crash? peace, --e; On Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 02:00:11PM -0700, Christopher Cavnor wrote: > I've used this util with favorable results (75% recovery) : > http://www.linuxave.net/~recover/ > > good luck!! > > > Joe Slagel wrote: > > > Off topic question, but I thought some of the sysadmins on > > this list may have some advice. > > > > We may or may not have had a malicious employee (fomer!) > > attempt to wipe a disk. Does anyone know of some disk > > repair service companies in Seattle? (It's a scuzzy, ext2 > > formatted disk...or at least was and now is failing to > > mount). > > > > Thanks, > > Joe > > > > -- > > Joe Slagel > > Geospiza, Inc. > > 619 N 35th Street Suite 101M > > (206) 633-4403 > > slagel@geospiza.com > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From tim at consultix-inc.com Mon Jul 31 18:50:55 2000 From: tim at consultix-inc.com (Tim Maher/CONSULTIX) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Linux-List better for Linux Disk Probs! In-Reply-To: <20000731162901.B5054@go2net.com>; from eric@go2net.com on Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 04:29:02PM -0700 References: <3985D6EE.4653D31B@geospiza.com> <3985E8DB.8EE4C2B2@enthusiasm.com> <20000731162901.B5054@go2net.com> Message-ID: <20000731165055.A16044@timji.consultix.wa.com> Yo Dudes, If you want help with Linux system administration problems, including dead disk drives, please subscribe to linux-list@ssc.com (using the normal Majordomo conventions). This is a great Seattle-based source for this type of info run by the Linux Journal folks (just down the street from me in the high-tech municipality of Ballard). ========================================================== | Tim Maher, Ph.D. Tel: (206) 781-UNIX | | SPUG Founder & Leader Email: spug@halcyon.com | | Seattle Perl Users Group HTTP: www.halcyon.com/spug | ========================================================== On Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 04:29:02PM -0700, Eric Lundberg wrote: > To continue the off topicness, how about data recover on a drive that > goes: 'click click click' when it powers up? I.e., hardware crash? > > peace, > --e; > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 02:00:11PM -0700, Christopher Cavnor wrote: > > I've used this util with favorable results (75% recovery) : > > http://www.linuxave.net/~recover/ > > > > good luck!! > > > > > > Joe Slagel wrote: > > > > > Off topic question, but I thought some of the sysadmins on > > > this list may have some advice. > > > > > > We may or may not have had a malicious employee (fomer!) > > > attempt to wipe a disk. Does anyone know of some disk > > > repair service companies in Seattle? (It's a scuzzy, ext2 > > > formatted disk...or at least was and now is failing to > > > mount). > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe > > > > > > -- > > > Joe Slagel > > > Geospiza, Inc. > > > 619 N 35th Street Suite 101M > > > (206) 633-4403 > > > slagel@geospiza.com > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > -- *========================================================================* | Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# | | Email: tim@consultix-inc.com Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com | | CLASSES: 8/14: UNIX Fund. 8/21: Shell & Utilities 9/11: Perl + Mods | *========================================================================* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From gregb at go2net.com Mon Jul 31 19:21:56 2000 From: gregb at go2net.com (Greg J. Badros) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: OT Re: SPUG: Disk Bummer -- Someone know of a group in Seattle to get data off of bad disks? In-Reply-To: Eric Lundberg's message of "Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:29:02 -0700" References: <3985D6EE.4653D31B@geospiza.com> <3985E8DB.8EE4C2B2@enthusiasm.com> <20000731162901.B5054@go2net.com> Message-ID: Eric Lundberg writes: > To continue the off topicness, how about data recover on a drive that > goes: 'click click click' when it powers up? I.e., hardware crash? I've used OnTrack data recovery services before -- they're not cheap, but they get your data back. I believe that they pretty much just move the platters into a working hard drive in a clean room, and send it back to you. www.ontrack.com Greg - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From mathin at mathin.com Mon Jul 31 19:53:44 2000 From: mathin at mathin.com (Dan Ebert) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl 5.6 and Unicode Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000731175158.00ac6150@ns2.globaldns.com> I have been digging around on the perl.com site looking for some documentation on the Unicode support in 5.6 without much luck. I have also tried the perldoc route, but must be using all the wrong key words. Could any of you point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance, Dan. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From starfire at zipcon.net Mon Jul 31 20:35:33 2000 From: starfire at zipcon.net (Richard Anderson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Re: Perl 5.6 and Unicode References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000731175158.00ac6150@ns2.globaldns.com> Message-ID: <008501bffb58$cd22b180$670ff93f@adcom133> I know that there is a Unicode CPAN module - check http://search.cpan.org/ My recollection was that 5.6 was supposed to have built-in Unicode support. The online man pages for 5.6 would be the best place to look for this. Richard.Anderson@raycosoft.com www.zipcon.net/~starfire/home (personal) www.raycosoft.com (corporate) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Ebert" To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 5:53 PM Subject: SPUG: Perl 5.6 and Unicode > > I have been digging around on the perl.com site looking for some > documentation on the Unicode support in 5.6 without much luck. I have also > tried the perldoc route, but must be using all the wrong key words. Could > any of you point me in the right direction? > > Thanks in advance, > > Dan. > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org > Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL > Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address > For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest > Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/ From cmeyer at helvella.org Mon Jul 31 22:16:50 2000 From: cmeyer at helvella.org (Colin Meyer) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:07:29 2004 Subject: SPUG: Perl 5.6 and Unicode In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000731175158.00ac6150@ns2.globaldns.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000731175158.00ac6150@ns2.globaldns.com> Message-ID: <20000731201650.B6738@hobart.helvella.org> Dan, On Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 05:53:44PM -0700, Dan Ebert wrote: > > I have been digging around on the perl.com site looking for some > documentation on the Unicode support in 5.6 without much luck. I have also > tried the perldoc route, but must be using all the wrong key words. Could > any of you point me in the right direction? You want 'perldoc perlunicode'. Only in 5.6. -C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - POST TO: spug-list@pm.org PROBLEMS: owner-spug-list@pm.org Subscriptions; Email to majordomo@pm.org: ACTION LIST EMAIL Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address For full traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; otherwise use spug-list-digest Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/