[SP-pm] Mercado de trabalho, etc. [outra thread]

Marcio Ferreira marciodesouzaferreira at gmail.com
Wed Oct 5 06:29:10 PDT 2011


2011/10/5 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com>

> maquina de café com login existe?
>
> meldels...
>
>
autentica via web service e gera um XML no fim do dia =P



>
> 2011/10/5 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>
>
>>
>>
>> 2011/10/5 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Pior que la era muito frio, impossivel não tomar cafe...
>>>
>>> mas só descontavam o que excedia de um "limite".
>>>
>>
>> e voce tinha de dar login na maquina de café? ou anotavam seu id na hora
>> de comprar a fichinha?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Tiago
>>>> Descontar cafezinho eh sacanagem hein !
>>>>
>>>> Em 05/10/11, Tiago Peczenyj<tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>> > Daniel,
>>>> >
>>>> > acabei me alongando em algums comentários alguns emails atrás.
>>>> >
>>>> > Seria bom desmembrarmos esta thread para falar sobre mercado de
>>>> trabalho.
>>>> >
>>>> > 2011/10/5 Daniel Vinciguerra <dan.vinciguerra at gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> >> Senhores,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Para não perdermos o foco ta thread e aproveitarmos melhor a
>>>> discussão e
>>>> >> todos os pontos de vista, me prontifiquei e entrei em contato com a
>>>> Elisa
>>>> >> (moça do recrutamento) para uma negociação sem compromisso e postarei
>>>> aqui
>>>> >> os resultados da negociação para ajudar o pessoal que esta pensando
>>>> em
>>>> >> concorrer a vaga.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> De qualquer forma em um primeiro contato a Elisa ja deixou escapar
>>>> que o
>>>> >> valor é aberto e ela precisa responder a solicitação da IBM ainda
>>>> hoje.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Forte abraço a todos,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> *
>>>> >> Daniel Vinciguerra*
>>>> >> Web Solutions Architect and Co-Owner at Bivee
>>>> >> http://github.com/dvinciguerra <http://github.com/dvinciguerra>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Herman
>>>> >>> Fique tranquilo , cada um esta colocando o ponto de vista sobre o
>>>> >>> assunto , não precisa de brigas , flamewar essas coisas.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Abraços
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Em 05/10/11, Carlos Eduardo Langoni<ce.langoni at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>> >>> > Hernan e demais colegas da lista,
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Eu concordo com generalizar--, mas também acho que isso tudo é
>>>> reflexo
>>>> >>> da
>>>> >>> > experiência de todos com este tipo de negociação, não
>>>> necessariamente
>>>> >>> > estamos falando da IBM e suas terceirizadas, mas de uma forma
>>>> geral o
>>>> >>> > mercado tem se comportado assim, papel acima da experiência, se
>>>> você
>>>> >>> > não
>>>> >>> tem
>>>> >>> > papel não se encaixa nas vagas.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Tudo bem, vai lá, ficou totalmente offtopic a conversa, mas daí a
>>>> ter
>>>> >>> > vontade de sair da lista, nem tanto.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Concordo com o Daniel Vinciguerra, gato escaldado tem medo de água
>>>> >>> > fria.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Abraços a todos!
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > 2011/10/5 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> 2011/10/5 hernan.lopes at inexsoft.com.br <
>>>> hernan.lopes at inexsoft.com.br>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Por acaso alguem ligou e perguntou ou negociou algo ?
>>>> >>> >>> Essas especulações marrons me dão nojo...
>>>> >>> >>> Se não tem coisa boa para falar melhor não falar nada.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> hernan++  # se nao sabe, nao fala
>>>> >>> >> hernan++  # é sempre fácil generalizar e especular
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>  Só vi comentários ruins, pessimistas e de péssimo gosto,
>>>> lamento
>>>> >>> >>> demais... da até vontade de sair da lista
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> abs
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> hernan
>>>> >>> >>>
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>>>> >>> >>> From: Carlos Costa <crncosta at gmail.com>
>>>> >>> >>> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:45:40 -0300
>>>> >>> >>> Message-ID: <
>>>> >>> >>>
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>>>> >>> >>> To: saopaulo-pm at mail.pm.org
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>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> Sabem o que é pior sobre esse mercado marrom de TI:
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> - querem pagar mal, com contratos duvidosos via PJ ou
>>>> quarterizados
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> - tem altas taxas de turnover[1] e funcionários que não se
>>>> >>> >>> identificam
>>>> >>> >>> com a missão da empresa (no geral, por falta de motivação $$$)
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> - Praticam uma das 2 maneiras de gerar lucro: aumentar receitas
>>>> acima
>>>> >>> >>> das despesas, ou cortar gastos abaixo das receitas. Há relatos
>>>> de
>>>> >>> >>> empresas que cortam até café!
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> - E ainda saem por ai dando entrevista pra radio/TV/jornal/web
>>>> >>> >>> dizendo
>>>> >>> >>> que falta profissional de TI no mercado. Falta mesmo é pagar
>>>> bem.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> [ ]s
>>>> >>> >>> Carlos.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnover_(employment)
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> 2011/10/5 Hernan Lopes <hernanlopes at gmail.com>:
>>>> >>> >>> > nojo!
>>>> >>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>> > 2011/10/4 Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas <helderribas at gmail.com>
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> O que esta sendo falado pode ser aplicado ao mercado
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> Mas é a velha e boa intuição que se adquire com o tempo que
>>>> pode
>>>> >>> >>> >> ajudar
>>>> >>> >>> a
>>>> >>> >>> >> "prever" se vai entrar num projeto desafiador ou numa fria.
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> Pois todos sabemos que exitem projetos e projetos,
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> E sempre vamos ver gerentes que brigam pela equipe e outros
>>>> que
>>>> >>> brigam
>>>> >>> >>> com
>>>> >>> >>> >> a equipe, equipe de vendas ruim e boas, estratégias de
>>>> negócios
>>>> >>> >>> suicidas ou
>>>> >>> >>> >> conservadoras, produto estabelecido ou briga para oferecer
>>>> >>> >>> >> serviços
>>>> >>> em
>>>> >>> >>> >> diversos lugares
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> Claro que as empresas de body shop que existem na ibm são
>>>> famosas
>>>> >>> (e
>>>> >>> >>> >> as
>>>> >>> >>> >> mesmas atuam em diversas outras consultorias e outros
>>>> clientes), e
>>>> >>> >>> emprega
>>>> >>> >>> >> muitos colegas.
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> E aquela, se o salário não compensar o trabalho ( ou a troca
>>>> de
>>>> >>> >>> trabalho),
>>>> >>> >>> >> para que aceitar?
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> Hélder
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> 2011/10/4 Alexei Znamensky <russoz at gmail.com>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>> 2011/10/4 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj at gmail.com>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> Tem um outro detalhe
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> Empresas como a IBM possuem centenas de divisões e vivem
>>>> >>> comprando
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> outras empresas.
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> É bem possivel que algumas dessas divisões sejam caóticas,
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> outras
>>>> >>> >>> sejam
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> extraordinárias.
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>> Estou lá dentro, e te garanto que é exatamente assim. Há
>>>> áreas na
>>>> >>> IBM
>>>> >>> >>> que
>>>> >>> >>> >>> são fantásticas para se trabalhar, e outras que são o fino
>>>> do
>>>> >>> lixo.
>>>> >>> >>> >>> Do
>>>> >>> >>> lado
>>>> >>> >>> >>> de fora, não se vê isso, então, basicamente você:
>>>> >>> >>> >>> 1) ou já trabalhou lá e sabe
>>>> >>> >>> >>> 2) ou conhece alguém que trabalha ou trabalhou lá
>>>> >>> >>> >>> 3) ou arrisca
>>>> >>> >>> >>> 4) ou nem arrisca e sai fora
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> Na pratica, no Brasil, com TI Corporativa, existe a
>>>> tendência a
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> maior
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> burocratização do trabalho e terceirização do trabalho. De
>>>> >>> repente
>>>> >>> >>> aqueles
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> caras q foram contratados por 6 meses para fazer um
>>>> sisteminha
>>>> >>> >>> simples foi a
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> unica forma de fazer esse maldito sistema pois o gerente
>>>> não
>>>> >>> tinha
>>>> >>> >>> como
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> contratar um mizero funcionario (falta autorização,
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> eletricidade,
>>>> >>> >>> etc) mas
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> podia gastar 6 milhões com terceiros. Mas se esse gerente
>>>> >>> consegue
>>>> >>> >>> uma
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> empresa que cobra 4 milhões, melhor pra ele que vai
>>>> economizar
>>>> >>> >>> dinheiro e
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> pode sobrar para alguma outra coisa. Se a empresa
>>>> contratada é
>>>> >>> ruim,
>>>> >>> >>> a
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> galera terceirizada vai sofrer.
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> E para vencer essas "licitações" quanto mais papel,
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> certificação,
>>>> >>> >>> sigla,
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> melhor. Mas é só uma parte da realidade Brasileira e
>>>> mundial.
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Daniel de Oliveira
>>>> Mantovani
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> <daniel.oliveira.mantovani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> 2011/10/4 cleiton alves <cleitondebian at gmail.com>:
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> > Uma coisa é classica , estuda-se muito e paga-se pouco
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> Os caras que eu conheço que estudaram muito até onde eu
>>>> sei não
>>>> >>> >>> ganham
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> pouco não, nenhum deles. E todos eles acham que eles
>>>> estudaram
>>>> >>> >>> pouco.
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> > =begin disclaimer
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>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> --
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>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> --
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> Linux User #405772
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> http://pacman.blog.br
>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>> =begin disclaimer
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>>>> >>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>> --
>>>> >>> >>> >>> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com |
>>>> >>> http://russoz.org
>>>> >>> >>> >>> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27  1CF3 C66F B5C7
>>>> 71CA
>>>> >>> 9F3C
>>>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz |
>>>> http://github.com/russoz
>>>> >>> >>> >>> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
>>>> >>> >>> >>>
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>>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> >> --
>>>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>> >>> >> Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas
>>>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>> >>> >> twitter: @hmbr
>>>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>> >>> >>
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>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> --
>>>> >>> >> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com |
>>>> http://russoz.org
>>>> >>> >> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27  1CF3 C66F B5C7 71CA
>>>> 9F3C
>>>> >>> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz | http://github.com/russoz
>>>> >>> >> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
>>>> >>> >>
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>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> cleiton alves
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>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Tiago B. Peczenyj
>>>> > Linux User #405772
>>>> >
>>>> > http://pacman.blog.br
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> cleiton alves
>>>> =begin disclaimer
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
>>> Linux User #405772
>>>
>>> http://pacman.blog.br
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
>>> Linux User #405772
>>>
>>> http://pacman.blog.br
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com | http://russoz.org
>> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27  1CF3 C66F B5C7 71CA 9F3C
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz | http://github.com/russoz
>> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
>>
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>>  SaoPaulo-pm mailing list: SaoPaulo-pm at pm.org
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>> =end disclaimer
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Tiago B. Peczenyj
> Linux User #405772
>
> http://pacman.blog.br
>
> =begin disclaimer
>   Sao Paulo Perl Mongers: http://sao-paulo.pm.org/
>  SaoPaulo-pm mailing list: SaoPaulo-pm at pm.org
>  L<http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/saopaulo-pm>
> =end disclaimer
>
>
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