[SP-pm] Mercado de trabalho, etc. [outra thread]

Wed Oct 5 06:24:15 PDT 2011

2011/10/5 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj em gmail.com>

> Pior que la era muito frio, impossivel não tomar cafe...
>
> mas só descontavam o que excedia de um "limite".
>

e voce tinha de dar login na maquina de café? ou anotavam seu id na hora de
comprar a fichinha?

>
> 2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian em gmail.com>
>
>> Tiago
>> Descontar cafezinho eh sacanagem hein !
>>
>> Em 05/10/11, Tiago Peczenyj<tiago.peczenyj em gmail.com> escreveu:
>> > Daniel,
>> >
>> > acabei me alongando em algums comentários alguns emails atrás.
>> >
>> > Seria bom desmembrarmos esta thread para falar sobre mercado de
>> trabalho.
>> >
>> > 2011/10/5 Daniel Vinciguerra <dan.vinciguerra em gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> Senhores,
>> >>
>> >> Para não perdermos o foco ta thread e aproveitarmos melhor a discussão
>> e
>> >> todos os pontos de vista, me prontifiquei e entrei em contato com a
>> Elisa
>> >> (moça do recrutamento) para uma negociação sem compromisso e postarei
>> aqui
>> >> os resultados da negociação para ajudar o pessoal que esta pensando em
>> >> concorrer a vaga.
>> >>
>> >> De qualquer forma em um primeiro contato a Elisa ja deixou escapar que
>> o
>> >> valor é aberto e ela precisa responder a solicitação da IBM ainda hoje.
>> >>
>> >> Forte abraço a todos,
>> >>
>> >> *
>> >> Daniel Vinciguerra*
>> >> Web Solutions Architect and Co-Owner at Bivee
>> >> http://github.com/dvinciguerra <http://github.com/dvinciguerra>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2011/10/5 cleiton alves <cleitondebian em gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >>> Herman
>> >>> Fique tranquilo , cada um esta colocando o ponto de vista sobre o
>> >>> assunto , não precisa de brigas , flamewar essas coisas.
>> >>>
>> >>> Abraços
>> >>>
>> >>> Em 05/10/11, Carlos Eduardo Langoni<ce.langoni em gmail.com> escreveu:
>> >>> > Hernan e demais colegas da lista,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Eu concordo com generalizar--, mas também acho que isso tudo é
>> reflexo
>> >>> da
>> >>> > experiência de todos com este tipo de negociação, não
>> necessariamente
>> >>> > estamos falando da IBM e suas terceirizadas, mas de uma forma geral
>> o
>> >>> > mercado tem se comportado assim, papel acima da experiência, se você
>> >>> > não
>> >>> tem
>> >>> > papel não se encaixa nas vagas.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Tudo bem, vai lá, ficou totalmente offtopic a conversa, mas daí a
>> ter
>> >>> > vontade de sair da lista, nem tanto.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Concordo com o Daniel Vinciguerra, gato escaldado tem medo de água
>> >>> > fria.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Abraços a todos!
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 2011/10/5 Alexei Znamensky <russoz em gmail.com>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> 2011/10/5 hernan.lopes em inexsoft.com.br <
>> hernan.lopes em inexsoft.com.br>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Por acaso alguem ligou e perguntou ou negociou algo ?
>> >>> >>> Essas especulações marrons me dão nojo...
>> >>> >>> Se não tem coisa boa para falar melhor não falar nada.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> hernan++  # se nao sabe, nao fala
>> >>> >> hernan++  # é sempre fácil generalizar e especular
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>>  Só vi comentários ruins, pessimistas e de péssimo gosto, lamento
>> >>> >>> demais... da até vontade de sair da lista
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> abs
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> hernan
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
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>> >>> >>> From: Carlos Costa <crncosta em gmail.com>
>> >>> >>> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:45:40 -0300
>> >>> >>> Message-ID: <
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>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Sabem o que é pior sobre esse mercado marrom de TI:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> - querem pagar mal, com contratos duvidosos via PJ ou
>> quarterizados
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> - tem altas taxas de turnover[1] e funcionários que não se
>> >>> >>> identificam
>> >>> >>> com a missão da empresa (no geral, por falta de motivação $$$)
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> - Praticam uma das 2 maneiras de gerar lucro: aumentar receitas
>> acima
>> >>> >>> das despesas, ou cortar gastos abaixo das receitas. Há relatos de
>> >>> >>> empresas que cortam até café!
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> - E ainda saem por ai dando entrevista pra radio/TV/jornal/web
>> >>> >>> dizendo
>> >>> >>> que falta profissional de TI no mercado. Falta mesmo é pagar bem.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> [ ]s
>> >>> >>> Carlos.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnover_(employment)
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> 2011/10/5 Hernan Lopes <hernanlopes em gmail.com>:
>> >>> >>> > nojo!
>> >>> >>> >
>> >>> >>> > 2011/10/4 Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas <helderribas em gmail.com>
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> O que esta sendo falado pode ser aplicado ao mercado
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> Mas é a velha e boa intuição que se adquire com o tempo que
>> pode
>> >>> >>> >> ajudar
>> >>> >>> a
>> >>> >>> >> "prever" se vai entrar num projeto desafiador ou numa fria.
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> Pois todos sabemos que exitem projetos e projetos,
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> E sempre vamos ver gerentes que brigam pela equipe e outros que
>> >>> brigam
>> >>> >>> com
>> >>> >>> >> a equipe, equipe de vendas ruim e boas, estratégias de negócios
>> >>> >>> suicidas ou
>> >>> >>> >> conservadoras, produto estabelecido ou briga para oferecer
>> >>> >>> >> serviços
>> >>> em
>> >>> >>> >> diversos lugares
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> Claro que as empresas de body shop que existem na ibm são
>> famosas
>> >>> (e
>> >>> >>> >> as
>> >>> >>> >> mesmas atuam em diversas outras consultorias e outros
>> clientes), e
>> >>> >>> emprega
>> >>> >>> >> muitos colegas.
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> E aquela, se o salário não compensar o trabalho ( ou a troca de
>> >>> >>> trabalho),
>> >>> >>> >> para que aceitar?
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> Hélder
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> 2011/10/4 Alexei Znamensky <russoz em gmail.com>
>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> >>> 2011/10/4 Tiago Peczenyj <tiago.peczenyj em gmail.com>
>> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>> Tem um outro detalhe
>> >>> >>> >>>> Empresas como a IBM possuem centenas de divisões e vivem
>> >>> comprando
>> >>> >>> >>>> outras empresas.
>> >>> >>> >>>> É bem possivel que algumas dessas divisões sejam caóticas,
>> >>> >>> >>>> outras
>> >>> >>> sejam
>> >>> >>> >>>> extraordinárias.
>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> >>> Estou lá dentro, e te garanto que é exatamente assim. Há áreas
>> na
>> >>> IBM
>> >>> >>> que
>> >>> >>> >>> são fantásticas para se trabalhar, e outras que são o fino do
>> >>> lixo.
>> >>> >>> >>> Do
>> >>> >>> lado
>> >>> >>> >>> de fora, não se vê isso, então, basicamente você:
>> >>> >>> >>> 1) ou já trabalhou lá e sabe
>> >>> >>> >>> 2) ou conhece alguém que trabalha ou trabalhou lá
>> >>> >>> >>> 3) ou arrisca
>> >>> >>> >>> 4) ou nem arrisca e sai fora
>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>> Na pratica, no Brasil, com TI Corporativa, existe a tendência
>> a
>> >>> >>> >>>> maior
>> >>> >>> >>>> burocratização do trabalho e terceirização do trabalho. De
>> >>> repente
>> >>> >>> aqueles
>> >>> >>> >>>> caras q foram contratados por 6 meses para fazer um
>> sisteminha
>> >>> >>> simples foi a
>> >>> >>> >>>> unica forma de fazer esse maldito sistema pois o gerente não
>> >>> tinha
>> >>> >>> como
>> >>> >>> >>>> contratar um mizero funcionario (falta autorização,
>> >>> >>> >>>> eletricidade,
>> >>> >>> etc) mas
>> >>> >>> >>>> podia gastar 6 milhões com terceiros. Mas se esse gerente
>> >>> consegue
>> >>> >>> uma
>> >>> >>> >>>> empresa que cobra 4 milhões, melhor pra ele que vai
>> economizar
>> >>> >>> dinheiro e
>> >>> >>> >>>> pode sobrar para alguma outra coisa. Se a empresa contratada
>> é
>> >>> ruim,
>> >>> >>> a
>> >>> >>> >>>> galera terceirizada vai sofrer.
>> >>> >>> >>>> E para vencer essas "licitações" quanto mais papel,
>> >>> >>> >>>> certificação,
>> >>> >>> sigla,
>> >>> >>> >>>> melhor. Mas é só uma parte da realidade Brasileira e mundial.
>> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Daniel de Oliveira Mantovani
>> >>> >>> >>>> <daniel.oliveira.mantovani em gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>> 2011/10/4 cleiton alves <cleitondebian em gmail.com>:
>> >>> >>> >>>>> > Uma coisa é classica , estuda-se muito e paga-se pouco
>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>> Os caras que eu conheço que estudaram muito até onde eu sei
>> não
>> >>> >>> ganham
>> >>> >>> >>>>> pouco não, nenhum deles. E todos eles acham que eles
>> estudaram
>> >>> >>> pouco.
>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>> >
>> >>> >>> >>>>> > =begin disclaimer
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>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>> --
>> >>> >>> >>>>> http://noticiasglobal.com
>> >>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>> "If you’ve never written anything thoughtful, then you’ve
>> never
>> >>> had
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>> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>> --
>> >>> >>> >>>> Tiago B. Peczenyj
>> >>> >>> >>>> Linux User #405772
>> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>> http://pacman.blog.br
>> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> >>>> =begin disclaimer
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>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> >>> --
>> >>> >>> >>> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com |
>> >>> http://russoz.org
>> >>> >>> >>> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27  1CF3 C66F B5C7
>> 71CA
>> >>> 9F3C
>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz |
>> http://github.com/russoz
>> >>> >>> >>> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
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>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>> >>> >>> >> Hélder Máximo Botter Ribas
>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>> >>> >>> >> twitter: @hmbr
>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------
>> >>> >>> >>
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>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >> Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com |
>> http://russoz.org
>> >>> >> GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27  1CF3 C66F B5C7 71CA
>> 9F3C
>> >>> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz | http://github.com/russoz
>> >>> >> "I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
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>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> cleiton alves
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tiago B. Peczenyj
>> > Linux User #405772
>> >
>> > http://pacman.blog.br
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> cleiton alves
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>
>
>
> --
> Tiago B. Peczenyj
> Linux User #405772
>
> http://pacman.blog.br
>
> --
> Tiago B. Peczenyj
> Linux User #405772
>
> http://pacman.blog.br
>
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-- 
Alexei "RUSSOZ" Znamensky | russoz EM gmail com | http://russoz.org
GPG fingerprint = 42AB E78C B83A AE31 7D27  1CF3 C66F B5C7 71CA 9F3C
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexeiz | http://github.com/russoz
"I don't know... fly casual!" -- Han Solo
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