From jeff at imaginative-software.com Tue Oct 2 09:18:30 2012 From: jeff at imaginative-software.com (Jeffrey Thalhammer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:18:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Your CPAN in the Cloud Message-ID: Mighty quiet around here these days. To stir up some conversation, I finally started a blog. For my first post, I proposed a service for hosting private CPANs in the cloud: http://blogs.perl.org/users/jeff_thalhammer1/2012/09/your-personal-cpan-in-the-sky.html Your comments are appreciated. -Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Oct 2 11:43:27 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:43:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Your CPAN in the Cloud In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Jeffrey Thalhammer wrote: > Mighty quiet around here these days. Most of the action has been happening at meetings. > To stir up some conversation, I finally started a blog. For my first post, > I proposed a service for hosting private CPANs in the cloud: > > http://blogs.perl.org/users/jeff_thalhammer1/2012/09/your-personal-cpan-in-the-sky.html > > Your comments are appreciated. Looks cool! Interested in showing it off at the meeting this month on the 23rd? I don't think we have a speaker lined up yet. From doomvox at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 11:54:22 2012 From: doomvox at gmail.com (Joseph Brenner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:54:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Your CPAN in the Cloud In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred Moyer wrote: > Jeffrey Thalhammer wrote: >> To stir up some conversation, I finally started a blog. For my first post, >> I proposed a service for hosting private CPANs in the cloud: >> >> http://blogs.perl.org/users/jeff_thalhammer1/2012/09/your-personal-cpan-in-the-sky.html > Looks cool! Interested in showing it off at the meeting this month on > the 23rd? I don't think we have a speaker lined up yet. True, no speaker lined-up as yet. I gather this is largely a speculative project at this point, but there's nothing wrong with that... From doom at kzsu.stanford.edu Tue Oct 2 16:30:14 2012 From: doom at kzsu.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:30:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Your CPAN in the Cloud In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred Moyer wrote: > Jeffrey Thalhammer wrote: >> To stir up some conversation, I finally started a blog. For my first post, >> I proposed a service for hosting private CPANs in the cloud: >> >> http://blogs.perl.org/users/jeff_thalhammer1/2012/09/your-personal-cpan-in-the-sky.html > Looks cool! Interested in showing it off at the meeting this month on > the 23rd? I don't think we have a speaker lined up yet. True, no speaker lined-up as yet. I gather this is largely a speculative project at this point, but there's nothing wrong with that... From jeff at imaginative-software.com Tue Oct 2 16:33:17 2012 From: jeff at imaginative-software.com (Jeffrey Thalhammer) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:33:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Your CPAN in the Cloud In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <116F6F44-FADC-45D0-A4C3-6D2AC74BBD7F@imaginative-software.com> On Oct 2, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote: > True, no speaker lined-up as yet. > > I gather this is largely a speculative project at this point, but > there's nothing wrong with that? I don't have a running service that I can demonstrate yet. But I can use Pinto::Remote and Pinto::Server as a model. If you can move the meeting back by 1 week (to October 30), then I'd be happy to present. I imagine it would be a combination of lecture, live demo, and discussion. It will be fun for all. -Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Oct 3 16:04:21 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 16:04:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] CPAN In The Sky With Diamonds Message-ID: Jeff Thalhammer will be speaking on Tuesday October 30th at 7pm on his new private CPAN cloud service. We have a limit of 30 attendees, so please RSVP if you think you want to attend. Craigslist has generously offered to host this meeting. http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/84572172/ Jeff Thalhammer will be speaking at our October meeting. Note the date is one week after the normal 4th Tuesday of the month. Managing Perl modules is a major pain. The public CPAN is constantly changing and the toolchain doesn't give you precise control over module versions. One solution is to create a private CPAN, but that takes time and energy you'd rather spend building your application. What if you could just toss all your modules into the cloud and instantly create a customized private CPAN that you can access anytime, anywhere? StratoPAN is an upcoming web service for managing Perl modules in the cloud. In this presentation, I will demonstrate the StratoPAN prototype and we'll explore some common use cases. You'll be able to play along with the demo, so bring your laptop and you'll have your own CPAN in the sky before the night is over. I'll also explain the pitfalls of traditional module management techniques and the virtues of using private CPANs. Acid and tie-dye are optional. Jeff Thalhammer on CPAN - https://metacpan.org/author/THALJEF From gatorreina at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 07:45:26 2012 From: gatorreina at gmail.com (Richard Reina) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:45:26 -0500 Subject: [sf-perl] getting the salutations out of an email. Message-ID: I have a text files that need to be word wrapped neatly so they can be turned into emails. They consist of: Dear (or Hello) Jim, Nice meeting with you on Thursday. Blah blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, Thanks, Richard Text::Wrap does a great job in breaking up and wrapping the lines my problem is that since it removes all the "\n" s I end up with: Dear Jim, Nice meeting with you on Thursday. Blah blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, Thanks, Richard To counter this I began writing various conditionals that try to guess the first and last lines of the file so that they can be preserved separately and added after Text::Wrap has done it's work. However, it's very convoluted and I am not so confident it will work. So I am wondering if anyone know of a better way to accomplish the task? Thanks, Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hartzell at alerce.com Thu Oct 4 09:09:39 2012 From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:09:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] getting the salutations out of an email. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20589.46275.77243.948226@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Richard Reina writes: > I have a text files that need to be word wrapped neatly so they can be > turned into emails. They consist of: > > Dear (or Hello) Jim, > > Nice meeting with you on Thursday. Blah > blah, blah. > blah, blah, blah, > > Thanks, > > Richard > > Text::Wrap does a great job in breaking up and wrapping the lines my > problem is that since it removes all the "\n" s > I end up with: > > Dear Jim, Nice meeting with you on Thursday. Blah > blah, blah. > blah, blah, blah, Thanks, Richard > > To counter this I began writing various conditionals that try to guess the > first and last lines of the file so that they can be preserved separately > and added after Text::Wrap has done it's work. However, it's very > convoluted and I am not so confident it will work. So I am wondering if > anyone know of a better way to accomplish the task? At the simple end of the spectrum, how about just running the message text through fmt (/usr/bin/fmt on mac os and freebsd). At the other end of the spectrum, how about using Markdown in the source text file and then running it through a converter. That'll open the entire world of Email-MIME-Kit (http://search.cpan.org/dist/Email-MIME-Kit/). g. From sfpug at dave.sharnoff.org Thu Oct 4 09:39:03 2012 From: sfpug at dave.sharnoff.org (David Muir Sharnoff) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:39:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] getting the salutations out of an email. In-Reply-To: <20589.46275.77243.948226@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20589.46275.77243.948226@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: I suggest you split the message on "\n\n", wrap each fragment separately and then re-join them. -Dave On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:09 AM, George Hartzell wrote: > Richard Reina writes: > > I have a text files that need to be word wrapped neatly so they can be > > turned into emails. They consist of: > > > > Dear (or Hello) Jim, > > > > Nice meeting with you on Thursday. Blah > > blah, blah. > > blah, blah, blah, > > > > Thanks, > > > > Richard > > > > Text::Wrap does a great job in breaking up and wrapping the lines my > > problem is that since it removes all the "\n" s > > I end up with: > > > > Dear Jim, Nice meeting with you on Thursday. Blah > > blah, blah. > > blah, blah, blah, Thanks, Richard > > > > To counter this I began writing various conditionals that try to guess > the > > first and last lines of the file so that they can be preserved > separately > > and added after Text::Wrap has done it's work. However, it's very > > convoluted and I am not so confident it will work. So I am wondering if > > anyone know of a better way to accomplish the task? > > At the simple end of the spectrum, how about just running the message > text through fmt (/usr/bin/fmt on mac os and freebsd). > > At the other end of the spectrum, how about using Markdown in the > source text file and then running it through a converter. That'll > open the entire world of Email-MIME-Kit > (http://search.cpan.org/dist/Email-MIME-Kit/). > > g. > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdm at cfcl.com Thu Oct 4 11:22:50 2012 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 11:22:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fwd=3A_Jos=E9_Valim_speaking_in_SF_on_El?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ixir=2C_10/4__=28tonight!=29?= References: <882475247.1349305905755.JavaMail.nobody@app1.meetup.com> Message-ID: <9DF97F81-EB7C-46CB-9264-6BF65929B74D@cfcl.com> Ther other night a few of us were debating the merits of Clojure, Ruby, etc. If you found that interesting, this might be, as well. Jos? Valim is a prolific and imaginative software developer who is working on Elixir (a very interesting fusion of Clojure concepts, Erlang and Ruby syntax, etc). Jos? will be speaking on Elixir this evening in SF. http://www.meetup.com/The-Bay-Area-Clojure-User-Group/events/51164492 -r Begin forwarded message: > From: The Bay Area Clojure User Group > Date: October 3, 2012 16:11:45 > Subject: Antoni Batchelli commented ..." > > Antoni Batchelli > I am happy to announce that we have a great topic and speaker for tomorrow. Jos? Valim will be presenting his creation Elixir: a functional language built on top of the Erlang VM. > > http://elixir-lang.org > > ---- > > Elixir is a programming language for the Erlang VM. Elixir provides a first class macro mechanism, supports polymorphism via protocols (similar to Clojure's) and many other features while keeping the functional aspects of Erlang used to build distributed, fault-tolerant applications. > > Jos? Valim (@josevalim) is a Rails Core Team Member and author of Crafting Rails Applications. He graduated in Engineering in S?o Paulo University, Brazil and has a Master of Science by Politecnico di Torino, Italy. He is also the lead-developer of Plataformatec, a consultancy firm based in Brazil, an active member of the Open Source community and is frequently traveling and speaking at conferences. -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Software system design, development, and documentation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Juliette.Mcilroy at aesi.com Mon Oct 8 16:21:39 2012 From: Juliette.Mcilroy at aesi.com (Juliette Mcilroy) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 16:21:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] SW Development Engineer in Test/South Bay Area Message-ID: My client top Silicon Valley Client is looking for someone who has hands-on testing experience with Windows API Frameworks in both 32-bit and 64-bit environment plus scripting in Python. The ideal candidate will have the following experience: ? Demonstrated experience and understanding of C Language. This means you have recent experience with C/C++ programming experience specific to Windows environments. The strength of your programming knowledge and skills will be thoroughly examined. ? Demonstrated experience with testing Windows API Frameworks in an enterprise environment. ? Thorough understanding of QA white box Testing methodologies. You can demonstrate your ability to create unique test plans from scratch and execute these test plans with minimal supervision and oversight. ? Demonstrated hands-on experience designing and creating automation scripts for unit testing and above using common scripting languages (Python, Perl, VB); Python is preferable. ? Demonstrated experience in owning testing in a fluid, fast paced environment. You have the exceptional communication skills needed to gather information from multiple stakeholders and suggest reasonable priorities against constantly moving targets. If you're interest is piqued, please shoot me an email with your resume and the best day/time/contact number to reach you & I'll be sure to follow up! Thank You in advance for your time! Juliette McIlroy Lead Technical Recruiter Albin Engineering Services Inc. ph : 408-733-AESI (2374) x18 juliette.mcilroy at aesi.com www.aesi.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Tue Oct 9 13:40:05 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 13:40:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] SW Development Engineer in Test/South Bay Area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Juliette, While SF.pm always welcomes new members and postings about job opportunities related to Perl, this list does have one rule regarding posting job listings. You should have received a welcome email when you signed up for the list which has this requirement: 1) Use [tags] where possible. This is required for any [job] posting, put the [job] tag in the subject line. Welcome to the SF.pm list, but please include the [job] tag in any future postings to this list when posting any Perl related job opportunities. Thanks! On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Juliette Mcilroy wrote: > My client top Silicon Valley Client is looking for someone who has hands-on > testing experience with Windows API Frameworks in both 32-bit and 64-bit > environment plus scripting in Python. > > The ideal candidate will have the following experience: > > ? Demonstrated experience and understanding of C Language. This means > you have recent experience with C/C++ programming experience specific to > Windows environments. The strength of your programming knowledge and skills > will be thoroughly examined. > > ? Demonstrated experience with testing Windows API Frameworks in an > enterprise environment. > > ? Thorough understanding of QA white box Testing methodologies. You > can demonstrate your ability to create unique test plans from scratch and > execute these test plans with minimal supervision and oversight. > > ? Demonstrated hands-on experience designing and creating automation > scripts for unit testing and above using common scripting languages (Python, > Perl, VB); Python is preferable. > > ? Demonstrated experience in owning testing in a fluid, fast paced > environment. You have the exceptional communication skills needed to gather > information from multiple stakeholders and suggest reasonable priorities > against constantly moving targets. > > If you're interest is piqued, please shoot me an email with your resume and > the best day/time/contact number to reach you & I'll be sure to follow up! > > Thank You in advance for your time! > > Juliette McIlroy > Lead Technical Recruiter > > Albin Engineering Services Inc. > ph : 408-733-AESI (2374) x18 > juliette.mcilroy at aesi.com > www.aesi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From david_v_wright at yahoo.com Tue Oct 9 15:28:09 2012 From: david_v_wright at yahoo.com (david wright) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-perl] [job] perl, mod_perl Message-ID: <1349821689.70545.YahooMailNeo@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Howdy folks, The place I work is looking for a Perl developer. It's full time, good benefits, good pay, etc. ?A small, quiet, low stress shop on the?Peninsula, probably could do some telecommute. Reply to me if interested or know someone, I will forward the job description. Thanks, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Oct 10 22:33:37 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 22:33:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Fwd: [pm_groups] Fwd: Survey about newcomer experience and citizenship behavior in the Perl community In-Reply-To: <9609A8A8-C138-4F43-86BA-A240B5486392@jays.net> References: <9609A8A8-C138-4F43-86BA-A240B5486392@jays.net> Message-ID: Looks like an interesting research project and with a few minutes of your time to fill out. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jay Hannah" Date: Oct 10, 2012 10:19 AM Subject: [pm_groups] Fwd: Survey about newcomer experience and citizenship behavior in the Perl community To: "PM Groups" Please forward to your list if you deem appropriate. Thanks, jhannah Omaha.pm Group leaders FAQ: http://www.pm.org/faq/hosting_faq.html # ---------------------------------------- Hi, My name is Kevin Carillo and I am a PhD student at the School of Information Management of Victoria University of Wellington (New Zealand). I am currently running a survey that aims at studying how the experience of a Perl community newcomer has an influence on this person's actions and project contributions in the community. I would like to kindly request the leaders of the PerlMongers group to forward the survey invitation to their respective pm mailing lists. The more respondents we get, the more the data will help the overall Perl community. The dataset will be released under a CC license. Karen Pauley, Nat Torkington, and Mark Keating have already been informed about the research project and they all have been supportive and helpful. The study has been already advertised in different Perl resources. The survey targets contributors to Perl sub-projects endorsed by the Perl Foundation and who joined Perl within the last 2 years. You can find a blog post about the research project on blogs.perl.org that can be found at: http://blogs.perl.org/users/kevin_carillo/2012/10/newcomer-experience-and-contributor-behavior-in-perl-and-other-foss-communities---survey.html The direct link to the survey is: https://limesurvey.sim.vuw.ac.nz/index.php?sid=89971&lang=en This survey is anonymous, and no information is used to identify participants. The Human Ethics Committee of the School of Information Management has approved this research project. Thank you, Kevin Carillo School of Information Management Victoria University of Wellington PO Box 600, Wellington NEW ZEALAND (04) 463 5233 ext. 8679 | Room RH401 kevin.carillo at sim.vuw.ac.nz http://kevincarillo.org/ -- Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_groups at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moseley at hank.org Thu Oct 18 14:07:22 2012 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:07:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Use of uninitialized value in delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm seeing "Use of uninitialized value in delete" for this line: delete $c->stash->{foo}; Perl 5.14.2. Obviously, that's in Catalyst, and it's running under mod_perl. I didn't think that delete issued a warning, and I can't seem to make it happen: $ perl -Mwarnings -Mstrict -Wle 'use warnings; use strict; my $x = {}; delete $x->{a}' Am I missing something obvious here? -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Fri Oct 19 12:20:46 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:20:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Use of uninitialized value in delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can you try this in a Catalyst context as opposed to just the command line Perl example? On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Bill Moseley wrote: > > I'm seeing "Use of uninitialized value in delete" for this line: > delete $c->stash->{foo}; > > Perl 5.14.2. > Obviously, that's in Catalyst, and it's running under mod_perl. > > I didn't think that delete issued a warning, and I can't seem to make it > happen: > > $ perl -Mwarnings -Mstrict -Wle 'use warnings; use strict; my $x = {}; > delete $x->{a}' > Am I missing something obvious here? > > > -- > Bill Moseley > moseley at hank.org > > > > -- > Bill Moseley > moseley at hank.org > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From cpan at goess.org Sat Oct 20 09:32:55 2012 From: cpan at goess.org (Kevin Goess) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:32:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Use of uninitialized value in delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It looks to me like that warning comes if the *key* you're trying to delete is an uninitialized value, not the hash slot. Though I notice that if you try to delete $x->{ $uninitialized_key } you get "Use of uninitialized value $uninitialized_key in delete", to get your error message I have to do this: ---------------------- use warnings; use strict; my $x; my $uninitialized_key; my $undef_key_generator = sub { return undef }; # doesn't warn delete $x->{a}; # Use of uninitialized value $uninitialized_key in delete at test.pl line 10. delete $x->{ $uninitialized_key }; # Use of uninitialized value in delete at test.pl line 11. delete $x->{ $undef_key_generator->() }; ---------------------- On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Bill Moseley wrote: > > > I'm seeing "Use of uninitialized value in delete" for this line: > delete $c->stash->{foo}; > > Perl 5.14.2. > Obviously, that's in Catalyst, and it's running under mod_perl. > > I didn't think that delete issued a warning, and I can't seem to make it happen: > > $ perl -Mwarnings -Mstrict -Wle 'use warnings; use strict; my $x = {}; delete $x->{a}' > Am I missing something obvious here? > > > -- > Bill Moseley > moseley at hank.org > > > > -- > Bill Moseley > moseley at hank.org > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From peter at thoeny.org Sat Oct 20 14:44:35 2012 From: peter at thoeny.org (Peter Thoeny) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:44:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Perl based search engine? References: <818074CC-8261-4655-A4A3-D7A4E023CD48@thoeny.org> Message-ID: All: I am looking for a suitable Perl based search engine for TWiki. TWiki has internal search that is good for simple search and structured queries, but it does not handle search in attached files. There are extensions to integrate with Plucene and Kino Search, but they are outdated. Needs: * Light-weight (no huge list of dependencies) * Pure Perl, or C/C++ with Perl front end * Index most common file formats (M$ Office, PDF, HTML, XML) * Easy to integrate (css, etc) * File based configuration (list of converters etc) * Ideally be aware of page permissions (such as index all, but filter search result based on user credentials) * Open Source Feedback? Opinions? Cheers, Peter -- * Peter Thoeny - Peter[at]Thoeny.org * http://TWiki.org - is your team already TWiki enabled? * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared * This e-mail is: (_) private (_) ask first (x) public From moseley at hank.org Sat Oct 20 17:08:38 2012 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:08:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] Use of uninitialized value in delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thans for looking at this. On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Kevin Goess wrote: > It looks to me like that warning comes if the *key* you're trying to > delete is an uninitialized value, not the hash slot. > Yes, it does. But I'm not using a scalar variable as my key: delete $c->stash->{foo}; "foo" is not a constant or a sub name in that package. And even if it was I still don't see the error. $ perl -Mstrict -Mwarnings -wle 'sub foo () { return 123 }; print foo; my %hash; delete $hash{foo}' 123 $ perl -Mstrict -Mwarnings -wle 'sub foo () { return undef }; print foo; my %hash; delete $hash{foo}' Use of uninitialized value in print at -e line 1. I'll dig into this more. One odd thing is in the logs I see this warning in groups of five, which doesn't make much sense at this moment. I need to gather more debugging date from the developer that's seeing this. Thanks, -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff at imaginative-software.com Mon Oct 22 09:52:12 2012 From: jeff at imaginative-software.com (Jeffrey Thalhammer) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:52:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] CPAN In The Sky With Diamonds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53CBD9D5-231F-4E50-BA83-8473179D2188@imaginative-software.com> Hi Everyone- Just a reminder that the October meeting will happen *next* Tuesday on October 30. I'll be giving a presentation on Pinto and Stratopan, a new cloud-based service for managing your Perl module dependencies. Be sure to bring a bib -- this will be smothered with awesome sauce! Details here: http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/84572172/ -Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Oct 22 10:24:50 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:24:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] CPAN In The Sky With Diamonds In-Reply-To: <53CBD9D5-231F-4E50-BA83-8473179D2188@imaginative-software.com> References: <53CBD9D5-231F-4E50-BA83-8473179D2188@imaginative-software.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jeff! Please RSVP if you plan on attending. Craigslist will be hosting and serving pizza and soda. Don't forget your laptop also. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Jeffrey Thalhammer wrote: > Hi Everyone- > > Just a reminder that the October meeting will happen *next* Tuesday on > October 30. I'll be giving a presentation on Pinto and Stratopan, a new > cloud-based service for managing your Perl module dependencies. Be sure to > bring a bib -- this will be smothered with awesome sauce! Details here: > > http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/84572172/ > > -Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm > From fred at redhotpenguin.com Mon Oct 29 12:16:47 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:16:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] 'CPAN In The Sky With Diamonds' tomorrow evening Message-ID: Just a quick reminder that our next meeting is tomorrow evening at 7pm. If you have RSVP'd but can't attend, please update your RSVP. We only have 30 slots available with 2 remaining. All RSVPs must be done by tomorrow at 5pm if you are attending. http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-Perl-Mongers/events/84572172/ From extasia at extasia.org Tue Oct 30 18:32:43 2012 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:32:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? Message-ID: greetings, our sysadmins are turning out boxes now which run perl 5.10.1 whereas all of our tooling has long run on boxes running 5.8.8. our tools that use non-core modules get errors like: /usr/bin/perl: symbol lookup error: /nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/auto/Data/Dumper/Dumper.so: undefined symbol: Perl_Tstack_sp_ptr it appears that we have some choices. * downgrade the new boxes to 5.8.8 * put 5.8.8 on /some/network/filesystem and change "#!/usr/bin/perl" to "#!/some/network/filesystem/bin/perl" in our tools * reinstall all of our cpan modules on the 5.10.1 boxes (well, actually on a nas. the current ones are also on a nas.) poll: have you faced this? what did you do? what worked / didn't work? old systems: This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi CentOS release 5.5 (Final) Linux somehost 2.6.18-194.el5 #1 SMP Fri Apr 2 14:58:14 EDT 2010 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux new systems: This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi CentOS release 6.2 (Final) Linux someotherhost 2.6.32-220.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Dec 6 19:48:22 GMT 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux thanks, david -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Rule of law is for the little people. http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Justice-Some-Equality-Powerful/dp/0805092056 From bryan at beeley.org Tue Oct 30 19:02:04 2012 From: bryan at beeley.org (Bryan Beeley) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 19:02:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5090869C.2080607@beeley.org> I have faced something like this several times. I have always installed new versions of of CPAN modules without trouble, or having to muck with with any of the defaults for library paths. However, if you have your libraries in a custom location, it might be worth creating a new directory for the new modules, or moving the old directory(ies?) aside, before you reinstall everything from CPAN (maybe install the new modules in /nas/reg2). I have always done this on machines that have a default OS package install along with a custom built Perl executable (usually built from source and installed in /usr/local). I would expect that using the default system Perl with a custom directory for core libraries is more likely to cause trouble when mixing versions. Bryan On 10/30/2012 06:32 PM, David Alban wrote: > greetings, > > our sysadmins are turning out boxes now which run perl 5.10.1 whereas > all of our tooling has long run on boxes running 5.8.8. our tools > that use non-core modules get errors like: > > /usr/bin/perl: symbol lookup error: > /nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/auto/Data/Dumper/Dumper.so: > undefined symbol: Perl_Tstack_sp_ptr > > it appears that we have some choices. > > * downgrade the new boxes to 5.8.8 > * put 5.8.8 on /some/network/filesystem and change "#!/usr/bin/perl" > to "#!/some/network/filesystem/bin/perl" in our tools > * reinstall all of our cpan modules on the 5.10.1 boxes (well, > actually on a nas. the current ones are also on a nas.) > > poll: have you faced this? what did you do? what worked / didn't work? > > old systems: > > This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi > CentOS release 5.5 (Final) > Linux somehost 2.6.18-194.el5 #1 SMP Fri Apr 2 14:58:14 EDT 2010 > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > new systems: > > This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi > CentOS release 6.2 (Final) > Linux someotherhost 2.6.32-220.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Dec 6 19:48:22 > GMT 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > thanks, > david From extasia at extasia.org Wed Oct 31 08:49:38 2012 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:49:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? In-Reply-To: <5090869C.2080607@beeley.org> References: <5090869C.2080607@beeley.org> Message-ID: thanks bryan, as you surmised, our cpan and home grown modules are installed in /nas/reg/lib/perl (symlink to /nas/reg/lib/perl5). /nas/reg/ is a network filesystem mounted by all of our hosts. we include the statement: use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl'; in all of our tools. i'm not sure what to do in the case that's fast coming up: the current hosts will continue running 5.8.8 but all of the new hosts will be running 5.10.1. perhaps we do use a /nas/reg2/ filesystem, complete with its own /nas/reg2/lib/perl (symlink to /nas/reg2/lib/perl5) and reinstall all cpan modules there for 5.10.1. and perhaps we change: use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl'; in all of our tools to: usr lib '/usr/local/lib/perl'; and on the 5.8.8 hosts /usr/local/lib/perl is a symlink to /nas/reg/lib/perl and on the 5.10.1 hosts /usr/local/lib/perl is a symlink to /nas/reg2/lib/perl ? again, looking for perspectives from folks who've gone down this path and have had to maintain two versions of cpan modules and home grown tools which use them. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Bryan Beeley wrote: > I have faced something like this several times. I have always installed > new versions of of CPAN modules without trouble, or having to muck with > with any of the defaults for library paths. > > However, if you have your libraries in a custom location, it might be > worth creating a new directory for the new modules, or moving the old > directory(ies?) aside, before you reinstall everything from CPAN (maybe > install the new modules in /nas/reg2). I have always done this on > machines that have a default OS package install along with a custom > built Perl executable (usually built from source and installed in > /usr/local). I would expect that using the default system Perl with a > custom directory for core libraries is more likely to cause trouble when > mixing versions. -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Rule of law is for the little people. http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Justice-Some-Equality-Powerful/dp/0805092056 From jeff at imaginative-software.com Wed Oct 31 09:30:00 2012 From: jeff at imaginative-software.com (Jeffrey Thalhammer) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:30:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] 'CPAN In The Sky With Diamonds' tomorrow evening In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15F23303-F6F7-4EC0-9C7E-FFD612193727@imaginative-software.com> Thanks to everyone who attended the meeting last night -- I had a great time. As always, thanks to Fred and Joe for organizing, and very special thanks to the folks at Craigslist for providing such a fantastic meeting place and top-notch pizza. If you enjoyed the show, I would really appreciate if you blog, tweet, or mention Pinto and Stratopan in your favorite social platforms. You can find the slides for my presentation here: http://www.slideshare.net/thaljef/pintostratopanlove See you next time! -Jeff From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Oct 31 09:54:33 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:54:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? In-Reply-To: References: <5090869C.2080607@beeley.org> Message-ID: I would suggest taking a look at the slides from Jeff's talk last night, as it seems relevant to the issues you're experiencing. I wish Stratopan had existing a year or two ago, I have spent a lot of time on a few projects dealing with just these issues. On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:49 AM, David Alban wrote: > thanks bryan, > > as you surmised, our cpan and home grown modules are installed in > /nas/reg/lib/perl (symlink to /nas/reg/lib/perl5). /nas/reg/ is a > network filesystem mounted by all of our hosts. > > we include the statement: > > use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl'; > > in all of our tools. i'm not sure what to do in the case that's fast > coming up: the current hosts will continue running 5.8.8 but all of > the new hosts will be running 5.10.1. perhaps we do use a /nas/reg2/ > filesystem, complete with its own /nas/reg2/lib/perl (symlink to > /nas/reg2/lib/perl5) and reinstall all cpan modules there for 5.10.1. > and perhaps we change: > > use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl'; > > in all of our tools to: > > usr lib '/usr/local/lib/perl'; > > and on the 5.8.8 hosts /usr/local/lib/perl is a symlink to > /nas/reg/lib/perl and on the 5.10.1 hosts /usr/local/lib/perl is a > symlink to /nas/reg2/lib/perl ? > > again, looking for perspectives from folks who've gone down this path > and have had to maintain two versions of cpan modules and home grown > tools which use them. > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Bryan Beeley wrote: >> I have faced something like this several times. I have always installed >> new versions of of CPAN modules without trouble, or having to muck with >> with any of the defaults for library paths. >> >> However, if you have your libraries in a custom location, it might be >> worth creating a new directory for the new modules, or moving the old >> directory(ies?) aside, before you reinstall everything from CPAN (maybe >> install the new modules in /nas/reg2). I have always done this on >> machines that have a default OS package install along with a custom >> built Perl executable (usually built from source and installed in >> /usr/local). I would expect that using the default system Perl with a >> custom directory for core libraries is more likely to cause trouble when >> mixing versions. > > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > *** > Rule of law is for the little people. > http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Justice-Some-Equality-Powerful/dp/0805092056 > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From bryan at beeley.org Wed Oct 31 09:55:32 2012 From: bryan at beeley.org (Bryan Beeley) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:55:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? In-Reply-To: References: <5090869C.2080607@beeley.org> Message-ID: <50915804.9050101@beeley.org> While I haven't run into this particular situation myself, I would think that you might save yourself some headache if you remove that "use lib" line from your code. It would probably be easier to, at some later date, put a symlink in place of the /user/local/lib/perl directory that points to your (at that point newly upgraded) /nas/reg/lib/perl directory, rather than have to hard code all your scripts. Alternatively, you could set the PERL5LIB environment variable in the user that is running your scripts. To give you an idea of my dislike of hard coding paths in scripts, I tend to run scripts using the perl executable of my choice rather than relying on the shebang line of the script to point to the correct perl (or using env to pull it out of the path). I think the closest migration I was involved in was migrating production systems from a custom perl build on old VMs to fresh VMs with newer versions of the OS we were using. For that setup we built and installed perl the way we wanted it on one new VM instance, then used rsync to copy our custom built perl executable and libraries to all the new VMs (all the new VMs were the same and were running on the same type of hardware). That way we had two sets of VMs both with complete copies of all the perl executables and libraries we needed. I'm not sure if any of this helps you with your situation. Bryan On 10/31/2012 08:49 AM, David Alban wrote: > thanks bryan, > > as you surmised, our cpan and home grown modules are installed in > /nas/reg/lib/perl (symlink to /nas/reg/lib/perl5). /nas/reg/ is a > network filesystem mounted by all of our hosts. > > we include the statement: > > use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl'; > > in all of our tools. i'm not sure what to do in the case that's fast > coming up: the current hosts will continue running 5.8.8 but all of > the new hosts will be running 5.10.1. perhaps we do use a /nas/reg2/ > filesystem, complete with its own /nas/reg2/lib/perl (symlink to > /nas/reg2/lib/perl5) and reinstall all cpan modules there for 5.10.1. > and perhaps we change: > > use lib '/nas/reg/lib/perl'; > > in all of our tools to: > > usr lib '/usr/local/lib/perl'; > > and on the 5.8.8 hosts /usr/local/lib/perl is a symlink to > /nas/reg/lib/perl and on the 5.10.1 hosts /usr/local/lib/perl is a > symlink to /nas/reg2/lib/perl ? > > again, looking for perspectives from folks who've gone down this path > and have had to maintain two versions of cpan modules and home grown > tools which use them. > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Bryan Beeley wrote: >> I have faced something like this several times. I have always installed >> new versions of of CPAN modules without trouble, or having to muck with >> with any of the defaults for library paths. >> >> However, if you have your libraries in a custom location, it might be >> worth creating a new directory for the new modules, or moving the old >> directory(ies?) aside, before you reinstall everything from CPAN (maybe >> install the new modules in /nas/reg2). I have always done this on >> machines that have a default OS package install along with a custom >> built Perl executable (usually built from source and installed in >> /usr/local). I would expect that using the default system Perl with a >> custom directory for core libraries is more likely to cause trouble when >> mixing versions. From greg at blekko.com Wed Oct 31 16:25:13 2012 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:25:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20121031232513.GB17549@bx9.net> We just went through this hell. At blekko both our sysadmin stuff and our search engine are written in perl. What we did was made our search engine have its own perl install and modules. Then we upgraded that to 5.16. #!/usr/bin/env perl is all we need, no 'use lib' is necessary because we compiled in this different module path. This made life interesting for the sysadmin people, because some of their scripts run on the system perl and some run on the search engine perl. They use #!/usr/bin/env sysperl for the scripts that run on the system perl. We made our perlcritic and other checking tools in our Makefiles examine the #! lines to figure out what tests to run; our "print a stacktrace of a running perl process" examines /proc/$$/exe to figure out what to do. Our next step is to start installing new systems which have a different system perl. Our system perl is actually a shell script wrapper (/usr/bin/sysperl) which sets PERL5LIB etc etc. The scripts don't have a 'use lib' in them, and we can have different directories for modules of each perl version. -- greg On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 06:32:43PM -0700, David Alban wrote: > greetings, > > our sysadmins are turning out boxes now which run perl 5.10.1 whereas > all of our tooling has long run on boxes running 5.8.8. our tools > that use non-core modules get errors like: > > /usr/bin/perl: symbol lookup error: > /nas/reg/lib/perl/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/auto/Data/Dumper/Dumper.so: > undefined symbol: Perl_Tstack_sp_ptr > > it appears that we have some choices. > > * downgrade the new boxes to 5.8.8 > * put 5.8.8 on /some/network/filesystem and change "#!/usr/bin/perl" > to "#!/some/network/filesystem/bin/perl" in our tools > * reinstall all of our cpan modules on the 5.10.1 boxes (well, > actually on a nas. the current ones are also on a nas.) > > poll: have you faced this? what did you do? what worked / didn't work? > > old systems: > > This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi > CentOS release 5.5 (Final) > Linux somehost 2.6.18-194.el5 #1 SMP Fri Apr 2 14:58:14 EDT 2010 > x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > new systems: > > This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi > CentOS release 6.2 (Final) > Linux someotherhost 2.6.32-220.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Dec 6 19:48:22 > GMT 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > thanks, > david > -- > Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. > *** > Rule of law is for the little people. > http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Justice-Some-Equality-Powerful/dp/0805092056 > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm From hartzell at alerce.com Wed Oct 31 16:32:48 2012 From: hartzell at alerce.com (George Hartzell) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:32:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? In-Reply-To: <20121031232513.GB17549@bx9.net> References: <20121031232513.GB17549@bx9.net> Message-ID: <20625.46368.685529.986376@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Greg Lindahl writes: > [...] > Our next step is to start installing new systems which have a > different system perl. [...] Are you actually going to replace /usr/bin/perl (or where ever you OS puts its perl)? Experience suggests that way lies madness, other things that the OS installs expect to get the perl they were shipped with. Or are you planning to install /usr/sysadmin/bin/perl and manage it separately from search engine perl? g. From greg at blekko.com Wed Oct 31 16:39:49 2012 From: greg at blekko.com (Greg Lindahl) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:39:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] upgrade hell? In-Reply-To: <20625.46368.685529.986376@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20121031232513.GB17549@bx9.net> <20625.46368.685529.986376@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20121031233949.GC17549@bx9.net> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 04:32:48PM -0700, George Hartzell wrote: > Greg Lindahl writes: > > [...] > > Our next step is to start installing new systems which have a > > different system perl. [...] > > Are you actually going to replace /usr/bin/perl (or where ever you OS > puts its perl)? > > Experience suggests that way lies madness, other things that the OS > installs expect to get the perl they were shipped with. > > Or are you planning to install /usr/sysadmin/bin/perl and manage it > separately from search engine perl? I agree that that way lies madness. We played with it and it was a mess. Talking only about our "sysperl" sysadmin scripts, what we do is use unmodified /usr/bin/perl on each box. It's invoked in our scripts via a wrapper /usr/bin/sysperl, which sets up everything to look for modules in the right place. And these sysperl scripts are kept compatible with multiple perl versions. The search engine scripts have #!/usr/bin/env perl, but that never expands to /usr/bin/perl. In hindsight we should have called it ourperl or anything different from plain 'perl': then someone with an incorrect/incomplete environment would get a pretty straightforward error message. -- greg From jeff at imaginative-software.com Wed Oct 31 23:32:36 2012 From: jeff at imaginative-software.com (Jeffrey Thalhammer) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:32:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] 'CPAN In The Sky With Diamonds' tomorrow evening In-Reply-To: <15F23303-F6F7-4EC0-9C7E-FFD612193727@imaginative-software.com> References: <15F23303-F6F7-4EC0-9C7E-FFD612193727@imaginative-software.com> Message-ID: <0A80DC76-AAB0-4B4F-9C26-D1708F269298@imaginative-software.com> Hey everyone- I'm really bummed that you all couldn't participate in the "live demo" last night. Stratopan is now running on a dedicated server with a bit more horsepower. I think it blew up because I had tried optimizing some queries to impress you all. But instead of making them faster, I made them slower -- A LOT slower. Serves me right for messing around at the last minute :-b Anyway, it is working much better now. Feel free to go poke around. And remember, this is just a prototype -- it is not secure nor reliable. But I think it demonstrates the concept pretty well. If you like what you see, let me know. I'm eager to figure out if there is a viable market for this kind of service. http://alpha.stratopan.com By the way, what is your favorite tool for load & performance testing a web app? -Jeff From fred at redhotpenguin.com Wed Oct 31 23:52:15 2012 From: fred at redhotpenguin.com (Fred Moyer) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:52:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-perl] [meeting] 'CPAN In The Sky With Diamonds' tomorrow evening In-Reply-To: <0A80DC76-AAB0-4B4F-9C26-D1708F269298@imaginative-software.com> References: <15F23303-F6F7-4EC0-9C7E-FFD612193727@imaginative-software.com> <0A80DC76-AAB0-4B4F-9C26-D1708F269298@imaginative-software.com> Message-ID: For those of you who couldn't attend check out this Twitter based meeting summary, in addition to Jeff's demo. Click on the picture on the tweet to see the large version - pretty cool! https://twitter.com/saillinux/status/263893154107887616 On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Jeffrey Thalhammer wrote: > Hey everyone- > > I'm really bummed that you all couldn't participate in the "live demo" last night. Stratopan is now running on a dedicated server with a bit more horsepower. I think it blew up because I had tried optimizing some queries to impress you all. But instead of making them faster, I made them slower -- A LOT slower. Serves me right for messing around at the last minute :-b > > Anyway, it is working much better now. Feel free to go poke around. And remember, this is just a prototype -- it is not secure nor reliable. But I think it demonstrates the concept pretty well. If you like what you see, let me know. I'm eager to figure out if there is a viable market for this kind of service. > > http://alpha.stratopan.com > > By the way, what is your favorite tool for load & performance testing a web app? > > -Jeff > _______________________________________________ > SanFrancisco-pm mailing list > SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm